MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 22, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400586882
It is all there in the box score. Probably best to not rant at the moment. Other than to say that players who didn't play good enough defense to get on the court for one coach don't usually turn into lockdown defenders. Combine that with a lack of size, a lack of depth and trying to play an extended pressure defense......
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400586882
It is all there in the box score. Probably best to not rant at the moment. Other than to say that players who didn't play good enough defense to get on the court for one coach don't usually turn into lockdown defenders. Combine that with a lack of size, a lack of depth and trying to play an extended pressure defense......
No excuse for losing to a transition Division II team.
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http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400586882
It is all there in the box score. Probably best to not rant at the moment. Other than to say that players who didn't play good enough defense to get on the court for one coach don't usually turn into lockdown defenders. Combine that with a lack of size, a lack of depth and trying to play an extended pressure defense......
JJJ and ST combine for a whopping 2 points. Just brutal.
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My only thought at the moment is that the country bumpkin is smarter than we want to think he is. Got in when it was good and good out before it got really bad.
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Tempus fugit.
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My only thought at the moment is that the country bumpkin is smarter than we want to think he is. Got in when it was good and good out before it got really bad.
This makes him smart?
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This makes him smart?
Out ahead of the posse.
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Bumstead's the mofo who chit this bed, hey?
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My only thought at the moment is that the country bumpkin is smarter than we want to think he is. Got in when it was good and good out before it got really bad.
It was a smart career move. It's going to take 2-3 years to build this program back up. You can only go up @ VaTech and he'll do that, which may lead to a more prominent position in the future. Regardless, he was going to have a bad team no matter where he was this year. Best to have it where expectations are low.
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**If Wojo is a good coach, we will find out between now and the UW game in a couple weeks. This is no doubt a bad loss, but one bad loss isn't that big a deal. Rebounding from this is most important.
**Dawson still doesn't see the floor. JJJ has been a non-factor in about the last 70 minutes of game time. Are we still going to question why neither of them played much last year? It is slightly worrisome that JJJ still struggles. I know it is still very early in his career, but...
**The team defense was awful. And I mean the worst defensive performance I have seen since???
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**If Wojo is a good coach, we will find out between now and the UW game in a couple weeks. This is no doubt a bad loss, but one bad loss isn't that big a deal. Rebounding from this is most important.
**The team defense was awful. And I mean the worst defensive performance I have seen since???
Good points. I don't have a problem with the team giving up many points as these aren't wojo's guys for his system. The problem I do have is when guys stand around and don't hustle. That is the major red flag at this point. These guys just aren't putting forth effort. I don't care about the losses as much as I do the lack of intensity on defense. Nebraska is transitioning to division I for crying out loud. How do you let a team, that just recruited its first (tournament eligible) class shoot 57% against you at home? This is the worst loss in MU history. They had an RPI of 252.
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The only thing I got out of that game was a way to show my daughter how you can still attack a team even when it looks like they are back on defense. Because they may just back in body and their brains have not transitioned to defense yet. Unfortunately, it wasn't MU that provided the example.
I think Wojo's shoulder has to be sore based on the number of times he threw air punches. I swear he could have thrown a 95 mph fastball if he had a ball in his hand.
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Good points. I don't have a problem with the team giving up many points as these aren't wojo's guys for his system. The problem I do have is when guys stand around and don't hustle.
But why aren't they hustling? I think simply saying they aren't guys for "his system" is a bit of a cop out. It seems to me that we are talking about some basic things here.
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But why aren't they hustling? I think simply saying they aren't guys for "his system" is a bit of a cop out. It seems to me that we are talking about some basic things here.
It really doesn't make any sense. Wojo's forte as a college player was defense and won a defensive player of the year award. If anything, you'd think that would be the hallmark of his teachings and team personality. The fact that it hasn't translated on to the court is quite disturbing. None of these players are exhibiting the charisma that Wojo played with @ Duke. In fact, it's the opposite.
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Sure am glad 2/3 of his assistant staff are from the Drake loser program. Bunch of losers on this sideline.
But Marquette can't lose? It's a machine and any coach will win here, right? ::)
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Defense is based on hustle. This team just wants to shoot the ball. JJJ and Deonte have a long way to go under Wojo.
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So, the guys who did not exhibit good habits or play good defense last year aren't playing good defense this year. Why the surprise?
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So, the guys who did not exhibit good habits or play good defense last year aren't playing good defense this year. Why the surprise?
Good coaches mold their players or at least get them to play to a higher level than when they began in a program.
Might make sense why Buzz played head games now.
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The other disturbing thing is that defenses are usually ahead of the offenses in the beginning of the year. As teams gel, their offenses become more proficient.
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Defense is based on hustle. This team just wants to shoot the ball. JJJ and Deonte have a long way to go under Wojo.
That's untrue, takes more than hustle to play good defense. Need strength, lateral quickness, great insticts, anticipation and quick hands. You also need some bigs to protect the rim. It's just a bad team with mostly below average players. When Juan Anderson and Derrick Wilson are your best players, you're in trouble.
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**Dawson still doesn't see the floor. JJJ has been a non-factor in about the last 70 minutes of game time. Are we still going to question why neither of them played much last year? It is slightly worrisome that JJJ still struggles. I know it is still very early in his career, but...
I know that there are some things coaches aren't supposed to say about their players but hopefully some Scoopers out there can pick up some vibes and/or conversations around about why Dawson isn't getting PT.
He was high on my list because he has some offensive skills.
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Probably cause his defense sucks the worst of everyone.
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Probably cause his defense sucks the worst of everyone.
My sense, too.
Another thing about this team: We're not getting to the line as frequently as we used to.
Those two scorers would've been in foul trouble and it would have possibly hampered their minutes and production.
The inability to get to the line - witnessed last year - is going to haunt this team again unless they get their aggressiveness up.
Something has to offset the fact that we're going to be outrebounded every game until Fischer joins this squad.
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My sense, too.
Another thing about this team: We're not getting to the line as frequently as we used to.
Those two scorers would've been in foul trouble and it would have possibly hampered their minutes and production.
The inability to get to the line - witnessed last year - is going to haunt this team again unless they get their aggressiveness up.
Something has to offset the fact that we're going to be outrebounded every game until Fischer joins this squad.
There aren't as many balls to rebound when your opponent shoots 57% :D
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Team played without a sense of urgency, slow and uninspired effort on defense, did not drive to the basket often enough to score and or get fouled and put some foul pressure on them, fouled way too often - I think Omaha had 26 points from the stripe?, etc. I cannot remember a worse defensive effort. Open looks and lay-up practice.
Lots needs to be righted. Effort is key. Getting the team prepared is key. Not accepting mediocre effort is key. Talent development is key. Adjustments are key.
Lots of work ahead. Hope the players and staff learn a lot over the weekend. :)
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This probably won't hurt our seedin', hey?
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I knew this was going to be a tough season but did not expect this. It is not just the loss to a team I never heard of but the fact that Omaha looked better than MU. I cannot get a feel for this team yet. I am going to keep hoping for the best and will try to stay positive but today was baffling. Hopefully the boo birds stay away.
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Today is surprising but it's not time to panic.
Go ahead and worry but I know this team is headed up after this. You have a roster full of guys who barely played in years prior, under a new system with a coach who is in his 3rd game.
I expected some bad losses this year and this surely fits that. I expect a lot more growing pains as well.
You just gotta believe in Wojo and this program. Fischer should provide some help and next years recruiting class will allow us all to take a deep breath and start to see this program become great again. We all just have to remember to stay calm and look forward to the potential coming in and the potential currently on the team.
Chill.
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Today is surprising but it's not time to panic.
Go ahead and worry but I know this team is headed up after this. You have a roster full of guys who barely played in years prior, under a new system with a coach who is in his 3rd game.
I expected some bad losses this year and this surely fits that. I expect a lot more growing pains as well.
You just gotta believe in Wojo and this program. Fischer should provide some help and next years recruiting class will allow us all to take a deep breath and start to see this program become great again. We all just have to remember to stay calm and look forward to the potential coming in and the potential currently on the team.
Chill.
Could not possibly agree more.
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Yup.
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I wanted Buzz fired after that Thanksgiving week debacle against Dayton at the Sears Centre in Chicago his first year. I grew to appreciate his coaching ability. Im giving Wojo more time......much more time. I learned my lesson.
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I wanted Buzz fired after that Thanksgiving week debacle against Dayton at the Sears Centre in Chicago his first year. I grew to appreciate his coaching ability. Im giving Wojo more time......much more time. I learned my lesson.
Once you add in the insane ability to recruit like Wojo has....it makes everything a lot easier to deal with. I am still more excited for Marquette basketball today than I was a year ago.
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Today is surprising but it's not time to panic.
Go ahead and worry but I know this team is headed up after this. You have a roster full of guys who barely played in years prior, under a new system with a coach who is in his 3rd game.
I expected some bad losses this year and this surely fits that. I expect a lot more growing pains as well.
You just gotta believe in Wojo and this program. Fischer should provide some help and next years recruiting class will allow us all to take a deep breath and start to see this program become great again. We all just have to remember to stay calm and look forward to the potential coming in and the potential currently on the team.
Chill.
This is the mindset I'm trying to keep as well.
In 2005, the triplets first year, we lost at home to Winthrop in our 2nd game of the year. We also lost to Nebraska by ten, who proceeded to go 7-9 in the big 12 and lose in the first round of the NIT. We all know how that season turned out.
I don't expect this team to improve to the extent that the 2005 team did, but we're a young, inexperienced team. It will get better. And if it doesn't, we still have next year.
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Today is surprising but it's not time to panic.
Go ahead and worry but I know this team is headed up after this. You have a roster full of guys who barely played in years prior, under a new system with a coach who is in his 3rd game.
I expected some bad losses this year and this surely fits that. I expect a lot more growing pains as well.
You just gotta believe in Wojo and this program. Fischer should provide some help and next years recruiting class will allow us all to take a deep breath and start to see this program become great again. We all just have to remember to stay calm and look forward to the potential coming in and the potential currently on the team.
Chill.
Yep.
I wanted Buzz fired after that Thanksgiving week debacle against Dayton at the Sears Centre in Chicago his first year. I grew to appreciate his coaching ability. Im giving Wojo more time......much more time. I learned my lesson.
Yep.
This is the mindset I'm trying to keep as well.
In 2005, the triplets first year, we lost at home to Winthrop in our 2nd game of the year. We also lost to Nebraska by ten, who proceeded to go 7-9 in the big 12 and lose in the first round of the NIT. We all know how that season turned out.
I don't expect this team to improve to the extent that the 2005 team did, but we're a young, inexperienced team. It will get better. And if it doesn't, we still have next year.
Yep.
Yup.
Yep.
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Today is surprising but it's not time to panic.
Go ahead and worry but I know this team is headed up after this. You have a roster full of guys who barely played in years prior, under a new system with a coach who is in his 3rd game.
I expected some bad losses this year and this surely fits that. I expect a lot more growing pains as well.
You just gotta believe in Wojo and this program. Fischer should provide some help and next years recruiting class will allow us all to take a deep breath and start to see this program become great again. We all just have to remember to stay calm and look forward to the potential coming in and the potential currently on the team.
Chill.
Well stated. I still believe in Wojo.
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I like their steaks
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Out ahead of the posse.
I get that, but lighting the place on fire and running from it doesn't make one smart
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I am wondering if Wojo knows how to coach less talented players? He has been an assistant at Duke for many years and has also help with USA team, which are loaded with Burger boys. I have always felt that you coach elite talent differently than you do lunch pail type players. Buzz is a lunch pail type player coach and Wojo is a Burger boy coach. it just may be that you cannot play Duke style finess basketball with lunch pail players. if that is true, than Wojo will have to continue to recruit like he did this year or change his style of coaching. My concern is the worse we are this year the harder it will be for Wojo to recruit. it is much easier to recruit before you lose your first game and you can sell the recruits on what you are going to do before reality hits you in the face.
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It's not as though Duke just throws out some basketballs and says "go at it." They do serious coaching there. It's not *that* different.
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Winners sacrifice everything for a single goal. Losers have only excuses and make a half axx attempt before saying they can't. We will learn shortly in which category this team belongs.
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I am wondering if Wojo knows how to coach less talented players? He has been an assistant at Duke for many years and has also help with USA team, which are loaded with Burger boys. I have always felt that you coach elite talent differently than you do lunch pail type players. Buzz is a lunch pail type player coach and Wojo is a Burger boy coach. it just may be that you cannot play Duke style finess basketball with lunch pail players. if that is true, than Wojo will have to continue to recruit like he did this year or change his style of coaching. My concern is the worse we are this year the harder it will be for Wojo to recruit. it is much easier to recruit before you lose your first game and you can sell the recruits on what you are going to do before reality hits you in the face.
I had some similar thoughts. There was a thread last year about how Deonte comes from a H.S. program that didn't do much development of players, just throw out the ball and let the boys run. Based on JJJ's shooting form, I'd speculate he didn't get much guidance from HS or AAU coaching either. We know we've never heard Brent use the words "player" and "Development" in the same sentence. These kids are raw!
Duke's recruits have potential and have seen high level competition in HS and have a history of good coaching. Kids with a history of good coaching also know how to receive coaching. This combination is probably why Flory was asked to move out of Rapids. Don't know much about the coaching there, but we know the competition isn't going to prepare him for top level D1 (ref: Zavada, Jeff)
Wojo needs to learn how to work with these raw kids and these raw kids need to learn how to accept coaching. This doesn't happen in one pre-season!
I have faith that Wojo will "find" these kids and that he'll recruit Duke style kids in the future - who have seen excellent competition, have good H.S. and AAU coaches, and have great potential.
Give the man time!!!
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Ah OK....that makes a lot more sense. bilsu if that is what you meant, then I understand where you were coming from.
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I had some similar thoughts. There was a thread last year about how Deonte comes from a H.S. program that didn't do much development of players, just throw out the ball and let the boys run. Based on JJJ's shooting form, I'd speculate he didn't get much guidance from HS or AAU coaching either. We know we've never heard Brent use the words "player" and "Development" in the same sentence. These kids are raw!
Duke's recruits have potential and have seen high level competition in HS and have a history of good coaching. Kids with a history of good coaching also know how to receive coaching. This combination is probably why Flory was asked to move out of Rapids. Don't know much about the coaching there, but we know the competition isn't going to prepare him for top level D1 (ref: Zavada, Jeff)
Wojo needs to learn how to work with these raw kids and these raw kids need to learn how to accept coaching. This doesn't happen in one pre-season!
I have faith that Wojo will "find" these kids and that he'll recruit Duke style kids in the future - who have seen excellent competition, have good H.S. and AAU coaches, and have great potential.
Give the man time!!!
Great post. Makes me think about quite a few of Buzz's recruits that didn't work out. Was he maybe just recruiting to the scouting reports? Of his out-of-state top-100 recruits, Erik Williams, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Jajuan Johnson have all come up a bit short on expectations. Even Junior with his career numbers of 5.6 ppg/3.7 apg didn't exactly meet top-50 hype.
Maymon and Blue were probably the best of them (jury still out on Deonte and Duane), though Maymon did it elsewhere and for Blue it was really only one year that he truly met expectations.
Maybe Buzz simply wasn't very good at evaluating HS coaching. Raw talent, sure, but the guys that really thrived under him were those that had the benefit of JUCO coaching. Jimmy, Jae, DJO, the guys with higher level coaching before they got here were the ones that stood out the most.
It will definitely be interesting to see how this develops, especially as Wojo gets his kind of guys in here.
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Great post. Makes me think about quite a few of Buzz's recruits that didn't work out. Was he maybe just recruiting to the scouting reports? Of his out-of-state top-100 recruits, Erik Williams, Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Steve Taylor, and Jajuan Johnson have all come up a bit short on expectations. Even Junior with his career numbers of 5.6 ppg/3.7 apg didn't exactly meet top-50 hype.
Maymon and Blue were probably the best of them (jury still out on Deonte and Duane), though Maymon did it elsewhere and for Blue it was really only one year that he truly met expectations.
Maybe Buzz simply wasn't very good at evaluating HS coaching. Raw talent, sure, but the guys that really thrived under him were those that had the benefit of JUCO coaching. Jimmy, Jae, DJO, the guys with higher level coaching before they got here were the ones that stood out the most.
It will definitely be interesting to see how this develops, especially as Wojo gets his kind of guys in here.
Good to see you back Brew. I, for one, miss the angle and insight you bring to the board.
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I'll second that. Welcome back, AB. Odd coincidence, the timing of your return.
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I'll second that. Welcome back, AB. Odd coincidence, the timing of your return.
Actually it is :D
I miss the discussion, so decided to put a few select members on ignore and see how it went. Regardless of who is here and who isn't, it's the good people on this site that have me itching to post again. Has nothing to do with the ones that I didn't always see eye-to-eye with.
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I had some similar thoughts. There was a thread last year about how Deonte comes from a H.S. program that didn't do much development of players, just throw out the ball and let the boys run. Based on JJJ's shooting form, I'd speculate he didn't get much guidance from HS or AAU coaching either. We know we've never heard Brent use the words "player" and "Development" in the same sentence. These kids are raw!
Duke's recruits have potential and have seen high level competition in HS and have a history of good coaching. Kids with a history of good coaching also know how to receive coaching. This combination is probably why Flory was asked to move out of Rapids. Don't know much about the coaching there, but we know the competition isn't going to prepare him for top level D1 (ref: Zavada, Jeff)
Wojo needs to learn how to work with these raw kids and these raw kids need to learn how to accept coaching. This doesn't happen in one pre-season!
I have faith that Wojo will "find" these kids and that he'll recruit Duke style kids in the future - who have seen excellent competition, have good H.S. and AAU coaches, and have great potential.
Give the man time!!!
Excellent post! Some people here have been a little emotional with statements like this is the worst loss in school history and Wojo's contract should be bought out. A bit harsh for someone who just coached his third game.
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Great insight on how kids may or not have been coached in HS. This is why I stop here. To learn from people who know the game and the environment.