MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: moomoo on October 28, 2014, 02:52:30 PM
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Buzz is screaming in his hokie hokie hell hole.
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/10/28/7084991/marquette-basketball-recruiting-deshawn-freeman-steve-wojciechowski-wojo
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Now that would be funny. But would it be squirmy?
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Now that would be funny. But would it be squirmy?
It was only squirmy when a JUCO guy was 'cruitin' one of his own. When it's a Dukie guy doing it, it's a blend between branching out, offering opportunity and thinking outside the box.
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If he can play, who cares where he comes from. Obviously, he will need the grades but I am sure he looks at Heldt, who might not be ready as a frosh to step in, and the possiblility
of Henry staying one year. Loses Henry and Taylor, that would leave only Fisher, Heldt and Burton on the front line in 2 years, bring in a juco and you are set for the following 2 years
with experience. OK I forgot Wally but I consider him a small forward.
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It was only squirmy when a JUCO guy was 'cruitin' one of his own. When it's a Dukie guy doing it, it's a blend between branching out, offering opportunity and thinking outside the box.
But wait...The Midwest Duke does not recruit JUCO's.
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Not sure how this guy plays but 6'7" 200 lbs could be more of a 3/ swing too, not exactly a big dude for a 19-20 year old (he is tall)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ_oIp7w7LM
Video from his high school days.
He was a three star according to ESPN coming out of high school. Currently 6th in 247's composite rankings for JUCOs.
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It was only squirmy when a JUCO guy was 'cruitin' one of his own. When it's a Dukie guy doing it, it's a blend between branching out, offering opportunity and thinking outside the box.
LOL - nailed it, mug.
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what's with the JUCO hate? Crowder and DJO were the best players under Buzz and they both came from Juco.
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It's only squirmy when kids are at diploma mills and needing to do wild gymnastics to get eligible. It's also not good, as we've illustrated many times over, to have kids only around 2 years. Some of our JUCOs have been 3 year players, the longer they are around, the better continuity for the program.
An occasional JUCO to shore up a hole, sure. When you have 40% of your team JUCOs, no thanks. Let other schools do that, plenty of exemplary programs have proved over and over again you don't need to go down that path, and MU doesn't either.
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I'll accept that I contributed in this thread to a negativism towards JUCOs, but I meant it more as an observation of Buzz's comfort zone and success vs. the fears of the MU administration.
Stories indicate that Buzz wanted to continue recruiting JUCOs and also imply that the administration was nervous about the character/academic performance of some recruits.
From the outside (and I am very outside), it seems that Buzz took only the best of the best when it came to JUCOs (JFB, Jae, Dwight, Joe and DJO).Maybe he wanted/got some others that didn't easily fit the admin's image of a 'proper' MU student.
Maybe that was part of the opening of the door that Buzz chose to walk out and MU chose to let him walk out of.
Regardless, MU's recent history of JUCOs must compare favorably to that of numerous other schools. Huggy at Cincy (and punching a horse) comes to mind.
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What is confusing to me is when he can actually come to MU. Common sense would be he is a recruit for next year. However, if you read the article he is the top unsigned junior college player, which indicates that he could possibly join the team this year, which would have to be the second semester. That would make more sense as to why Wojo is recruiting him.
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what's with the JUCO hate? Crowder and DJO were the best players under Buzz and they both came from Juco.
No JUCO hate here. I celebrate Buzz's success with them.
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What is confusing to me is when he can actually come to MU. Common sense would be he is a recruit for next year. However, if you read the article he is the top unsigned junior college player, which indicates that he could possibly join the team this year, which would have to be the second semester. That would make more sense as to why Wojo is recruiting him.
He's the top *uncommitted* player for 2015. I am pretty sure he was a non-qualifier so he wouldn't be able to come until next fall assuming he earns his associates degree.
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He's the top *uncommitted* player for 2015. I am pretty sure he was a non-qualifier so he wouldn't be able to come until next fall assuming he earns his associates degree.
No hate on JUCO's. Lots of big time players at MU came from JUCO's. Not sure about all of these:
Butler, DJO, Crowder, Mike Flory, Benny Moore, and even going back to Al, (I believe) Whitehead, Lackey, Tatum?, and likely several I missed.
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No hate on JUCO's. Lots of big time players at MU came from JUCO's. Not sure about all of these:
Butler, DJO, Crowder, Mike Flory, Benny Moore, and even going back to Al, (I believe) Whitehead, Lackey, Tatum?, and likely several I missed.
Kinsella, Lott, Blackledge (after missing out on his teammate, Stemler).
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Kinsella, Lott, Blackledge (after missing out on his teammate, Stemler).
Sorry, did not miss those, they were not studs.
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Lance Stemler!
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Sorry, did not miss those, they were not studs.
Nice guys, glad they were at MU, but you are correct.
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what's with the JUCO hate? Crowder and DJO were the best players under Buzz and they both came from Juco.
IMO JFB was the best judo under Buzz.
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IMO JFB was the best judo under Buzz.
Hmmmm... I would for sure put Jae and JFB ahead of DJO. But Jae was POY for the BE. But we had JFB for three years.
I guess I agree with you.
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IMO JFB was the best judo under Buzz.
Was he any good at basketball?
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IMO JFB was the best judo under Buzz.
Pretty sure that judo was under Crean....along with ATV's
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Hmmmm... I would for sure put Jae and JFB ahead of DJO. But Jae was POY for the BE. But we had JFB for three years.
I guess I agree with you.
I feel DJO was the better college player than Butler. He didn't have the hype train that benefitted Butler but considering he stepped in immediately and was pivotal every single one of his three years puts him over Butler in my boat. It's a battle with Crowder for me as to best JUCO under Buzz but that BE POY and Crowder's three week push at the end of that season likely puts him over the top.
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I feel DJO was the better college player than Butler. He didn't have the hype train that benefitted Butler but considering he stepped in immediately and was pivotal every single one of his three years puts him over Butler in my boat. It's a battle with Crowder for me as to best JUCO under Buzz but that BE POY and Crowder's three week push at the end of that season likely puts him over the top.
Hype train that benefitted Butler? He arrived with almost no fanfare (as opposed to DJO and Jae) and was pretty much under the radar until the last half of his senior year. He was the least hyped star at MU in a very long time.
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JFB was such a force defensively though. What he did versus Tu Holloway was as good as any offensive performance that DJO gave. And JFB was no slouch offensively...15 ppg as a junior and senior.
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JFB was such a force defensively though. What he did versus Tu Holloway was as good as any offensive performance that DJO gave. And JFB was no slouch offensively...15 ppg as a junior and senior.
Jimmy's defensive performance against Holloway was as good as any I've ever seen by a Marquette player and it came on the big stage.
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Hype train that benefitted Butler? He arrived with almost no fanfare (as opposed to DJO and Jae) and was pretty much under the radar until the last half of his senior year. He was the least hyped star at MU in a very long time.
LOL...I must have missed the hype train for Jimmy too.....
Maybe it was the Midnight train to Georgia or the Last train to Clarksville? ;)
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It's only squirmy when kids are at diploma mills and needing to do wild gymnastics to get eligible. It's also not good, as we've illustrated many times over, to have kids only around 2 years. Some of our JUCOs have been 3 year players, the longer they are around, the better continuity for the program.
An occasional JUCO to shore up a hole, sure. When you have 40% of your team JUCOs, no thanks. Let other schools do that, plenty of exemplary programs have proved over and over again you don't need to go down that path, and MU doesn't either.
Truly a horrid post. Who has illustrated the negatives of two year jucos? When n where? Additionally we have had very few of them anyway and one of our last was the BE POY and is currently in the NBA. Lastly, you need to qualify more things as your opinion, as opposed to stating then like facts. I personally and i guarantee others would not care if the team is 80% jucos. That is completely up to wojo, as long as the players represent the school well and win basketball games the wojo is fine with me. I will not descriminate against a young mzn solely due to his background. Pathetic
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Hype train that benefitted Butler? He arrived with almost no fanfare (as opposed to DJO and Jae) and was pretty much under the radar until the last half of his senior year. He was the least hyped star at MU in a very long time.
There was no "hype train" for Butler, but he had a very good junior year and every coach who game-planned for Marquette knew all about JFB by midway through that Big East season (if not sooner).
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Truly a horrid post. Who has illustrated the negatives of two year jucos? When n where? Additionally we have had very few of them anyway and one of our last was the BE POY and is currently in the NBA. Lastly, you need to qualify more things as your opinion, as opposed to stating then like facts. I personally and i guarantee others would not care if the team is 80% jucos. That is completely up to wojo, as long as the players represent the school well and win basketball games the wojo is fine with me. I will not descriminate against a young mzn solely due to his background. Pathetic
I can tell you that the people who matter care very much if the team is 80% jucos.
If they earn their spot academically and have a chance of graduating, than the university has no issue. We have accepted players in the past who don't meet this criteria. You can argue until the cows come home whether or not this is the right policy. But it is Marquette's policy. I personally support it.
I'm sure if Wojo is recruiting Mr. Freeman than he could be an excellent addition to our alma mater, both athletically and academically. He is coming from DJO's JUCO, we might still have some in roads with them.
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I feel DJO was the better college player than Butler. He didn't have the hype train that benefitted Butler but considering he stepped in immediately and was pivotal every single one of his three years puts him over Butler in my boat. It's a battle with Crowder for me as to best JUCO under Buzz but that BE POY and Crowder's three week push at the end of that season likely puts him over the top.
From what I remember, Jimmy had no hype. He wasn't even regarded as the top juco in our class. Joe Fulce was considered the much bigger prize.
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Truly a horrid post. Who has illustrated the negatives of two year jucos? When n where? Additionally we have had very few of them anyway and one of our last was the BE POY and is currently in the NBA. Lastly, you need to qualify more things as your opinion, as opposed to stating then like facts. I personally and i guarantee others would not care if the team is 80% jucos. That is completely up to wojo, as long as the players represent the school well and win basketball games the wojo is fine with me. I will not descriminate against a young mzn solely due to his background. Pathetic
80% and no one would care? You are in fantasy land, absolute fantasy land.
Yes, it is up to Wojo...and well, others. Again, you are in fantasy land if you don't think it is.
There's a reason why the top 20 programs in the country by and large may have 1 or 2 JUCO kids tops, not 5 or 6. Continuity is a big reason. There are others. And surely, you have never desciminated (sic) against young mzn (sic) here in the past...LOL. All depends what uniform they are wearing, but if the wrong uniform is worn it hasn't slowed you one bit.
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I can tell you that the people who matter care very much if the team is 80% jucos.
If they earn their spot academically and have a chance of graduating, than the university has no issue. We have accepted players in the past who don't meet this criteria. You can argue until the cows come home whether or not this is the right policy. But it is Marquette's policy. I personally support it.
I'm sure if Wojo is recruiting Mr. Freeman than he could be an excellent addition to our alma mater, both athletically and academically. He is coming from DJO's JUCO, we might still have some in roads with them.
I agree with you on that, in a quick response i left off graduate. Let me rephrase... As long as the players represent the university well, graduate, and win baketball games then wojo is fine with me.
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If they earn their spot academically and have a chance of graduating, than the university has no issue. We have accepted players in the past who don't meet this criteria.
The one JUCO guy that really had no chance to graduate was Crowder. After the mess at his first Junior College, he had no chance of getting done in 4 years.
Jae was a great guy, model citizen, and outstanding player while he was here. Being told that they will "never let another Jae Crowder in" really irked our former coach. And ended up being one of the major points of contention that he had with the administration.
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That 2015-16 class will be loaded.
Don't see a good fit unless Wojo will be having a healthy subbing pattern.
Oops.
I went there.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/eNIHgUFbSwg?hl=en_US&version=3&start=30
The first thing that always comes to my mind when I hear "JFB" and "defense" together is this. SMH, *sigh*
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http://www.youtube.com/v/eNIHgUFbSwg?hl=en_US&version=3&start=30
The first thing that always comes to my mind when I hear "JFB" and "defense" together is this. SMH, *sigh*
Same here. He could hold Lebron James to zero points this Friday and yet when I hear defense and jimmy I'll still think of this.
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From what I remember, Jimmy had no hype. He wasn't even regarded as the top juco in our class. Joe Fulce was considered the much bigger prize.
The hype train amongst the Scoopers was my point. Butler holds a higher status with the people in this forum than he does outside it. Speaking to MU alums who've never frequented this site or any other MU fandork site, Butler remains a wonderful player who brought great memories but they don't see him as transcendent as he is considered here in the forum.
Certainly his exploits for the Bulls and the strong midwest contingent of posters in the forum has also contributed to his elevated position in the memory bank which is why I wrote that as a pure college player, I would take DJO over Butler. At times, it's hard to separate the NBA influence but I would never quibble with those who will go blue in face telling me otherwise regarding Butler.
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The hype train amongst the Scoopers was my point. Butler holds a higher status with the people in this forum than he does outside it. Speaking to MU alums who've never frequented this site or any other MU fandork site, Butler remains a wonderful player who brought great memories but they don't see him as transcendent as he is considered here in the forum.
Certainly his exploits for the Bulls and the strong midwest contingent of posters in the forum has also contributed to his elevated position in the memory bank which is why I wrote that as a pure college player, I would take DJO over Butler. At times, it's hard to separate the NBA influence but I would never quibble with those who will go blue in face telling me otherwise regarding Butler.
Neither you nor I know if Butler holds a higher status with the people in this forum than he does with MU fans outside of it. If your anecdotal experience is an accurate measure of non Scoop MU fans feelings, though, I'd say they're guilty of underrating Jimmy and Scoopers more fairly value him.
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No hate on JUCO's. Lots of big time players at MU came from JUCO's. Not sure about all of these:
Butler, DJO, Crowder, Mike Flory, Benny Moore, and even going back to Al, (I believe) Whitehead, Lackey, Tatum?, and likely several I missed.
Pretty sure Tatum was not a Juco.
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Dwight Buycks is less than a year removed from representing MU in the NBA off of an MVP season in the French league and he hasn't even warranted a mention here yet? Ouch.
And I love JFB & DJO, but they never took over games on a holistic level on such a consistent basis the way Crowder did during his BEast POY season. Crowder had Lazar's senior year mentality combined with JFB's offensive efficiency and was a serious BEast DPOY candidate too. No question in my mind it was the second best single season performance at MU since Wade took us to the F4. Crowder is not only our best JUCO in recent memory, but our best college player since Wade.
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80% and no one would care? You are in fantasy land, absolute fantasy land.
Yes, it is up to Wojo...and well, others. Again, you are in fantasy land if you don't think it is.
There's a reason why the top 20 programs in the country by and large may have 1 or 2 JUCO kids tops, not 5 or 6. Continuity is a big reason. There are others. And surely, you have never desciminated (sic) against young mzn (sic) here in the past...LOL. All depends what uniform they are wearing, but if the wrong uniform is worn it hasn't slowed you one bit.
Pretty sad. Like keefe says u take pot shots n then run. U state the numerous illustration that we have seen of why jucos are bad and leave it at that. U state jucos are bad for continuity yet we hit 2 sweet 16s and an elite 8? I say as long as the young men are graduating, representing the university well, and winning ball games i have no problem with wojo going after them. Same standard i have for high school kids, again i stated those are my beliefs n i think most fans would be in agreement. You then bring up the administration and cell phone spelling errors?
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Pretty sad. Like keefe says u take pot shots n then run. U state the numerous illustration that we have seen of why jucos are bad and leave it at that. U state jucos are bad for continuity yet we hit 2 sweet 16s and an elite 8? I say as long as the young men are graduating, representing the university well, and winning ball games i have no problem with wojo going after them. Same standard i have for high school kids, again i stated those are my beliefs n i think most fans would be in agreement. You then bring up the administration and cell phone spelling errors?
The bolded part is the issue, especially with two year JUCOs.
As I understand the issue, junior college transfers tend to come to Marquette with a lot of phy ed credits, and are often phy ed majors. Those credits transfer in as credits, but not toward any degree program. Therefore two years are often not nearly enough for a player to come in and graduate in a reasonable time frame.
There were three two year Jucos under Buzz. Jae, who is nowhere near graduating. Dwight, who may have graduated but it look him extra time. And Jameel, who committed to MU early enough that the University was able to work with him to get on a non-phy ed path that would have enabled him to graduate.
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Dwight Buycks is less than a year removed from representing MU in the NBA off of an MVP season in the French league and he hasn't even warranted a mention here yet? Ouch.
And I love JFB & DJO, but they never took over games on a holistic level on such a consistent basis the way Crowder did during his BEast POY season. Crowder had Lazar's senior year mentality combined with JFB's offensive efficiency and was a serious BEast DPOY candidate too. No question in my mind it was the second best single season performance at MU since Wade took us to the F4. Crowder is not only our best JUCO in recent memory, but our best college player since Wade.
That seems a bit extreme man. Lazar put a team on his back Jae had DJO and Gardner to help carry the load. I would argue lazar and McNeal were better.
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That seems a bit extreme man. Lazar put a team on his back Jae had DJO and Gardner to help carry the load. I would argue lazar and McNeal were better.
I could go on and on about how incredible Jae's senior season actually was, but I'll use shorthand here.
http://valueaddbasketball.com/ballall.html
Dwyane Wade, 2003: 11.40, #3 overall in the nation
Jerel McNeal, 2009: 5.6, #80 overall in the nation
Lazar Hayward, 2010: 6.49, #34 overall in the nation
Jae Crowder, 2012: 11.12, #2 overall in the nation
Jae was everywhere all the time that year. A beast all over the court. A slight cut above two other great, great MU players in Lazar and Jerel.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/eNIHgUFbSwg?hl=en_US&version=3&start=30
The first thing that always comes to my mind when I hear "JFB" and "defense" together is this. SMH, *sigh*
Sad to say, me too. The worst part is that I was watching that game with a Washington alum and I hated that he had bragging rights for the entire offseason!
I appreciate everything Jimmy did at MU, and he was a heck of a player, but he was totally bitch-slapped on arguably the most important play of his college career.
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Jimmy's defensive performance against Holloway was as good as any I've ever seen by a Marquette player and it came on the big stage.
Zip 'em up.
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The first thing that always comes to my mind when I hear "JFB" and "defense" together is this. SMH, *sigh*
I never think about this. Ever.
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Translation:
Crean jucos sucked but acceptable
Buzz jucos really good but squirmy
It all comes back to the same agenda
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I don't get what the big deal is with taking extra time to graduate. There are tons of people, student-athletes and non student-athletes, who take more than 4 years to graduate. No big deal if you ask me.
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No hate on JUCO's. Lots of big time players at MU came from JUCO's. Not sure about all of these:
Butler, DJO, Crowder, Mike Flory, Benny Moore, and even going back to Al, (I believe) Whitehead, Lackey, Tatum?, and likely several I missed.
Sam Worthen!
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Translation:
Crean jucos sucked but acceptable
Buzz jucos really good but squirmy
It all comes back to the same agenda
Funny, you said you don't desciminate (sic) yesterday against players.......
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Pretty sad. Like keefe says u take pot shots n then run. U state there are numerous illustrations that we have seen of why jucos are bad and leave it at that. U state jucos are bad for continuity yet we hit 2 sweet 16s and an elite 8? I say as long as the young men are graduating, representing the university well, and winning ball games i have no problem with wojo going after them. Same standard i have for high school kids, again i stated those are my beliefs n i think most fans would be in agreement. You then bring up the administration and cell phone spelling errors?
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I don't get what the big deal is with taking extra time to graduate. There are tons of people, student-athletes and non student-athletes, who take more than 4 years to graduate. No big deal if you ask me.
No kidding, Marquette accepts kids through various programs like FFP, EOP, etc. and the high majority will never market the university like basketball players. There's a reason the MBB coach is the highest paid employee of the University, they put the school on the map. As long as the kids go to a reputable high school/juco, don't cause trouble, get the minimum grade requirements and can put that ball in the basket I'm straight. It's very similar to the Badger football team, that's the school's bread and butter and then bend the rules for kids who can play.
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I don't get what the big deal is with taking extra time to graduate. There are tons of people, student-athletes and non student-athletes, who take more than 4 years to graduate. No big deal if you ask me.
Because data shows that men's basketball and football student athletes who don't graduate during their eligibility tend to not graduate. It is also impossible for many of the players to afford a Marquette education without their athletic scholarships.
It also goes back to mission/values. If you take a kid who you know won't be able to graduate from your university during their eligibility because they are athletically gifted, it seems to indicate that you value the athlete part of student athlete more than the student part. That may be true for many universities but its not how it should be.
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Because data shows that men's basketball and football student athletes who don't graduate during their eligibility tend to not graduate. It is also impossible for many of the players to afford a Marquette education without their athletic scholarships.
It also goes back to mission/values. If you take a kid who you know won't be able to graduate from your university during their eligibility because they are athletically gifted, it seems to indicate that you value the athlete part of student athlete more than the student part. That may be true for many universities but its not how it should be.
Guess we shouldn't take really good players who might leave early, then.
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I thought I remember hearing that someone (maybe Trend Blackledge?) was still taking classes and the school was able to find away to help with the cost of education after he had completed his basketball eligibility/didn't have a full ride for basketball. Maybe my memory fails me.
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I thought I remember hearing that someone (maybe Trend Blackledge?) was still taking classes and the school was able to find away to help with the cost of education after he had completed his basketball eligibility/didn't have a full ride for basketball. Maybe my memory fails me.
Trend did it. Fulce did it. Jimmy did it during the lockout. All took a little extra time, but got their degrees.
Buycks was close, then got the Euro call. Jae was at least a full year away.
Non-JUCO player Lazar Hayward never finished.
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Guess we shouldn't take really good players who might leave early, then.
You can't predict that accurately. I could have told you (as could have any college admissions professional) with 100% certainty that Jae Crowder will not graduate from Marquette before his eligibility runs out.
I really don't think its that unreasonable of an expectation. We have admissions standards at our university, everyone should have to abide by them. No special treatment just because of athletic ability....at least, we need to appear that way.
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You can't predict that accurately. I could have told you (as could have any college admissions professional) with 100% certainty that Jae Crowder will not graduate from Marquette before his eligibility runs out.
I really don't think its that unreasonable of an expectation. We have admissions standards at our university, everyone should have to abide by them. No special treatment just because of athletic ability....at least, we need to appear that way.
I was never, ever told that I could only use 4 years to complete my degree.
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You can't predict that accurately. I could have told you (as could have any college admissions professional) with 100% certainty that Jae Crowder will not graduate from Marquette before his eligibility runs out.
I really don't think its that unreasonable of an expectation. We have admissions standards at our university, everyone should have to abide by them. No special treatment just because of athletic ability....at least, we need to appear that way.
Probably about the same certainty that henry Elennson leaves before graduating too. You are really making a silly argument. Some high school kids do things that embarrass the university, some high school kids prove to not be good collge players, some high school players dont graduate from college. The exact same things can be said of JUCO kids. Additionally JUCO kids have no more destabilizing factor to a program than high school kids that come in and transfer.
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You can't predict that accurately. I could have told you (as could have any college admissions professional) with 100% certainty that Jae Crowder will not graduate from Marquette before his eligibility runs out.
I really don't think its that unreasonable of an expectation. We have admissions standards at our university, everyone should have to abide by them. No special treatment just because of athletic ability....at least, we need to appear that way.
Everyone could have, because it would be impossible to earn enough credits in the time allotted...unless he was going to take 30 hours a semester.
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Pretty sad. Like keefe says u take pot shots n then run. U state there are numerous illustrations that we have seen of why jucos are bad and leave it at that. U state jucos are bad for continuity yet we hit 2 sweet 16s and an elite 8? I say as long as the young men are graduating, representing the university well, and winning ball games i have no problem with wojo going after them. Same standard i have for high school kids, again i stated those are my beliefs n i think most fans would be in agreement. You then bring up the administration and cell phone spelling errors?
Keefe said this....point it out. I'm not running from anything. Do you have the only cell phone left in America that doesn't autofill corrections?
Why do you think most of the top programs in the country go after high school kids? I'm just curious considering a quality JUCO is a more proven commodity than a quality high school kid. A JUCO is very unlikely to transfer (unless he plays for Buzz), a JUCO has played against solid competition, a high school kid may be highly regarded but against weak competition and never adjusts. Why, then, do the better programs in the country shy away from JUCO players?
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I was never, ever told that I could only use 4 years to complete my degree.
Not what I said. But if you think about it, all students are accepted with the possibility of graduating in four years. Jae was accepted despite it being impossible for him to graduate in four years. There is a difference. There's a reason you don't see many people transfer into Marquette from a community college.
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Probably about the same certainty that henry Elennson leaves before graduating too. You are really making a silly argument. Some high school kids do things that embarrass the university, some high school kids prove to not be good collge players, some high school players dont graduate from college. The exact same things can be said of JUCO kids. Additionally JUCO kids have no more destabilizing factor to a program than high school kids that come in and transfer.
I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here. Let me try to simplify my point. It was physically impossible for Jae to graduate before his eligibility ran out. No matter what classes Jae took, university policy kept him from taking enough credits in order to earn his degree before his eligibility ran out. The university decided after Jae "it must be at least physically possible for all future recruits to graduate before their eligibility runs out." Seems like a reasonable policy to me.
There is a huge difference between a kid like Henry (or Burton, or JFB, or insert player here) who might not finish his degree on time and a kid like Jae who had a 0% chance of finishing his degree on time.
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Truly a horrid post. Who has illustrated the negatives of two year jucos? When n where? Additionally we have had very few of them anyway and one of our last was the BE POY and is currently in the NBA. Lastly, you need to qualify more things as your opinion, as opposed to stating then like facts. I personally and i guarantee others would not care if the team is 80% jucos. That is completely up to wojo, as long as the players represent the school well and win basketball games the wojo is fine with me. I will not descriminate against a young mzn solely due to his background. Pathetic
First, a correction, MU's most recent JUCO recruit came off North Texas' bench last year, scoring 7 ppg.
More importantly, however, the reasons against JUCOs have been documented here.
For example, here's analysis dating back five years that analyzed all Big East JUCOs over the prior five year period which showed that on average, JUCO performance was worse compared to Top 100 HS recruits.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/10/jucos-in-big-east.html
If you look at JUCOs objectively, the arguments are:
a) they statistically are less likely to perform at the level of top 100 HS players
b) they are typically only around two years, which increases the risk of continuity issues, and requires double the recruiting budget, time and effort to keep a scholarship filled over any given four-year period.
c) they are statistically less likely to graduate, which reflects poorly on the school
Your opinion is that we should ignore these facts because sometimes a JUCO performs well enough to both graduate and justify the extra recruiting and added continuity risk (as was the case with some of Buzz's recruits).
You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but that's all it is.
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First, a correction, MU's most recent JUCO recruit came off North Texas' bench last year, scoring 7 ppg.
More importantly, however, the reasons against JUCOs have been documented here.
For example, here's analysis dating back five years that analyzed all Big East JUCOs over the prior five year period which showed that on average, JUCO performance was worse compared to Top 100 HS recruits.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/10/jucos-in-big-east.html
If you look at JUCOs objectively, the arguments are:
a) they statistically are less likely to perform at the level of top 100 HS players
b) they are typically only around two years, which increases the risk of continuity issues, and requires double the recruiting budget, time and effort to keep a scholarship filled over any given four-year period.
c) they are statistically less likely to graduate, which reflects poorly on the school
Your opinion is that we should ignore these facts because sometimes a JUCO performs well enough to both graduate and justify the extra recruiting and added continuity risk (as was the case with some of Buzz's recruits).
You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but that's all it is.
Well comments as u state are complete stereotypes and u are lumping all jucos into the avergae. Maybe just maybe mu has and will continue to not recruit all jucos or the avg juco as your number state but will indeed continue to only go after those that pass certain criteria
In fact ur comments...
For example, here's analysis dating back five years that analyzed all Big East JUCOs over the prior five year period which showed that on average, JUCO performance was worse compared to Top 100 HS recruits.
Well that definitely hasnt been the case at mu has it?
Additionally ur objective general averges have not held tru at mu
They have been the best players n they have graduated and we have had a ton of hs kids transfer after a year or two
Maybe just maybe buzz n now wojo know what the heck they are doing and ur generalized juco stats that consider players at lesser institution hardly reflect what is going on at mu
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It was not physically impossible for Jae to get a degree before his eligibility ran out. He could of gotten hurt and redshirted a year. It should not be a question on whether the player is going to graduate, it should be a question of whether he can do the normal class work. I suspect the percentage of incoming freshmen that end up not graduating at MU (maybe elsewhere) is significantly high. If you are basing the admissions on the probability that a student is going to graduate you would not admit anyone that did not have a parent that went to college.
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Sam Worthen!
Oh yeah!! He was a stud.
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Well comments as u state are complete stereotypes and u are lumping all jucos into the avergae. Maybe just maybe mu has and will continue to not recruit all jucos or the avg juco as your number state but will indeed continue to only go after those that pass certain criteria
In fact ur comments...
For example, here's analysis dating back five years that analyzed all Big East JUCOs over the prior five year period which showed that on average, JUCO performance was worse compared to Top 100 HS recruits.
Well that definitely hasnt been the case at mu has it?
Additionally ur objective general averges have not held tru at mu
They have been the best players n they have graduated and we have had a ton of hs kids transfer after a year or two
Maybe just maybe buzz n now wojo know what the heck they are doing and ur generalized juco stats that consider players at lesser institution hardly reflect what is going on at mu
Painful. For an iPhone, go into settings>general>keyboard If you have an Android, go to settings and then select language and input. Might be different depending on what Android version you have.
I'll ask again, why is it that most of the best programs go after high school kids and OCCASIONALLY may take 1 or 2 JUCOs? OCCASSIONALLY!
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It was not physically impossible for Jae to get a degree before his eligibility ran out. He could of gotten hurt and redshirted a year.
If Jae redshirted, then there would have been no issue. But he didn't.
It should not be a question on whether the player is going to graduate, it should be a question of whether he can do the normal class work. I suspect the percentage of incoming freshmen that end up not graduating at MU (maybe elsewhere) is significantly high. If you are basing the admissions on the probability that a student is going to graduate you would not admit anyone that did not have a parent that went to college.
Again, it is not about how likely the student is to graduate. It's about is it physically possible for the student to complete enough credit hours to graduate before his eligibility runs out? In Jaes case, the answer was no....Unless he redshirtted, which he should have
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You can't predict that accurately. I could have told you (as could have any college admissions professional) with 100% certainty that Jae Crowder will not graduate from Marquette before his eligibility runs out?
Yes you can. I could have told you last year with a very high degree of certainty that, for example, Jabari Parker, Andre Wiggins and Noah Vonleh (among others) wouldn't play for 4 years. As a matter of fact, I would have borrowed money (after I bet all of mine) to bet you that none of those guys would be in college as long or come as close to graduating as Jae Crowder did.
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Yes you can. I could have told you last year with a very high degree of certainty that, for example, Jabari Parker, Andre Wiggins and Noah Vonleh (among others) wouldn't play for 4 years. As a matter of fact, I would have borrowed money (after I bet all of mine) to bet you that none of those guys would be in college as long or come as close to graduating as Jae Crowder did.
But at the same time Kentucky's current backup of mcdonalds all Americans shows us that plenty of those you'd expect to be one and done could end up staying a little extra time.
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Well comments as u state are complete stereotypes and u are lumping all jucos into the avergae. Maybe just maybe mu has and will continue to not recruit all jucos or the avg juco as your number state but will indeed continue to only go after those that pass certain criteria
In fact ur comments...
For example, here's analysis dating back five years that analyzed all Big East JUCOs over the prior five year period which showed that on average, JUCO performance was worse compared to Top 100 HS recruits.
Well that definitely hasnt been the case at mu has it?
Additionally ur objective general averges have not held tru at mu
They have been the best players n they have graduated and we have had a ton of hs kids transfer after a year or two
Maybe just maybe buzz n now wojo know what the heck they are doing and ur generalized juco stats that consider players at lesser institution hardly reflect what is going on at mu
Well if this your logic, if a coach has the power of evaluation to predict the top performing JUCOs and avoid the average and below average, why wouldn't he just use that same capability and pick the best performing HS players and avoid the average and below average?
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Yes you can. I could have told you last year with a very high degree of certainty that, for example, Jabari Parker, Andre Wiggins and Noah Vonleh (among others) wouldn't play for 4 years. As a matter of fact, I would have borrowed money (after I bet all of mine) to bet you that none of those guys would be in college as long or come as close to graduating as Jae Crowder did.
Once again, it is not about how likely it is that they will graduate in four years. It is about whether or not it is physically possible for them to graduate before their eligibility expires.
Parker, Wiggins, and Vonleh all had the ability to graduate within four years. They chose not to. Jae Crowder had 0% chance of graduating before his eligibility ran out. It was an impossibility. He literally could not take enough credits in order to earn a degree (unless he redshirtted). This has nothing to do with Jae being a juco, or not being a good student. The university doesn't care if its unlikely that a student athlete will graduate in four years, they just care if it is possible to graduate in four years. So any examples about one and dones or non-athletes taking more than 4 years to graduate are invalid comparisons. It was possible for them to graduate in four years. They choose not to.
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Pretty sure Tatum was not a Juco.
William Earl came outta Mt. Vernon High School, same as Gus Williams.
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Once again, it is not about how likely it is that they will graduate in four years. It is about whether or not it is physically possible for them to graduate before their eligibility expires.
Parker, Wiggins, and Vonleh all had the ability to graduate within four years. They chose not to. Jae Crowder had 0% chance of graduating before his eligibility ran out. It was an impossibility. He literally could not take enough credits in order to earn a degree (unless he redshirtted). This has nothing to do with Jae being a juco, or not being a good student. The university doesn't care if its unlikely that a student athlete will graduate in four years, they just care if it is possible to graduate in four years. So any examples about one and dones or non-athletes taking more than 4 years to graduate are invalid comparisons. It was possible for them to graduate in four years. They choose not to.
Exactly. Unless he was going to take 30 hours a semester, plus max out in Summer school, it couldn't happen.
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Exactly. Unless he was going to take 30 hours a semester, plus max out in Summer school, it couldn't happen.
That would be 144 in two years. How many credits does one need to graduate from MU (128 back in the Dark Ages when I was there). Did Jae arrive at MU with negative credits?
everyone knew Noah Vonleh was one and done at IU. Unless he was going to take 60 hours a semester he wasn't graduating either.
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everyone knew Noah Vonleh was one and done at IU. Unless he was going to take 60 hours a semester he wasn't graduating either.
Doesn't matter. It was still POSSIBLE. Vonleh could choose to stay or leave. Jae couldn't choose to finish his degree on time.
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Doesn't matter. It was still POSSIBLE. Vonleh could choose to stay or leave. Jae couldn't choose to finish his degree on time.
You remind me of Jim Carey in "Dumb and Dumber" when Lauren Holly says he's got a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance with her and he grins ear to ear and says "So you're sayin' there's a chance".
It DOES matter if you want to deal in reality and not lottery chance possibilities.
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All I'm saying is why should we require basketball players to complete their degree in 4 years when we don't require that from any other student? There was no timeframe given to me when I enrolled in Marquette regarding the amount of time I was allowed to spend as a student at Marquette. Why should there be for someone who will not only be a student like me but will also carry the burden of being a division one student on top of it? They will get financial support from the school if they need to take an extra semester or year or whatever it may be to complete there degree, no doubt about it. A degree is a degree whether it takes you 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, or 20 years to get it. If we won't allow student athletes into MU who won't complete their degree in 4 years then let's kick every student out after 4 years, degree in hand or not. It's only fair.
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You remind me of Jim Carey in "Dumb and Dumber" when Lauren Holly says he's got a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance with her and he grins ear to ear and says "So you're sayin' there's a chance".
It DOES matter if you want to deal in reality and not lottery chance possibilities.
The policy put in place by the administration was that a recruit must be in a position where it is humanly possible for them to take enough credit hours before their eligibility expires. Potential one and dones are qualified under this rule. Jae Crowder does not. That's the rule. You can say you don't like the rule, but it's not changing. Nor do I personally think it should change. For me, there is an important distinction between "lottery chance possibility" and physically impossible.
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That would be 144 in two years. How many credits does one need to graduate from MU (128 back in the Dark Ages when I was there). Did Jae arrive at MU with negative credits?
everyone knew Noah Vonleh was one and done at IU. Unless he was going to take 60 hours a semester he wasn't graduating either.
Excuse the exaggeration, the premise is the same, he could not take enough credits to graduate in the time of his eligibility which everyone's knew at the time.
Your analogy is incorrect on Vonleh. He could have blown his knee out, returned to play three more years, etc. there are at least two guys on Kentucky's teams the last two years that were supposed to be one and done that everyone knew about....didn't happen. One and done isn't known until you actually play, find out your worth, gauge if it is right to go or not. Otherwise, you nailed it.....
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All I'm saying is why should we require basketball players to complete their degree in 4 years when we don't require that from any other student? There was no timeframe given to me when I enrolled in Marquette regarding the amount of time I was allowed to spend as a student at Marquette. Why should there be for someone who will not only be a student like me but will also carry the burden of being a division one student on top of it? They will get financial support from the school if they need to take an extra semester or year or whatever it may be to complete there degree, no doubt about it. A degree is a degree whether it takes you 3 years, 4 years, 5 years, or 20 years to get it. If we won't allow student athletes into MU who won't complete their degree in 4 years then let's kick every student out after 4 years, degree in hand or not. It's only fair.
Well one important reason is the NCAA graduation requirements to compute APR which does not just say a degree is degree regardless of time it takes to earn. That's why it is important.
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Well one important reason is the NCAA graduation requirements to compute APR which does not just say a degree is degree regardless of time it takes to earn. That's why it is important.
Exactly.
There is no "rule" that wouldn't allow Buzz or Wojo to not take *any* two-year Jucos. Marquette just doesn't want a lot of them because of APR score issues. And really part of it is because of the programming that Marquette offers.
It has nothing to do with "squirmyness" about Jucos in general.
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Doesn't matter. It was still POSSIBLE. Vonleh could choose to stay or leave. Jae couldn't choose to finish his degree on time.
How many hours is it POSSIBLE for a student to take per semester at MU? 18? 21? 18x4 semesters = 72. 12 summer school credits x 3 years (including the summer after spring semester of his senior year =36. 72+36=108, 20 hours short of graduation. Didn't ANY of his JC credits transfer? Are you sure it was not POSSIBLE for him to graduate?
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How many hours is it POSSIBLE for a student to take per semester at MU? 18? 21? 18x4 semesters = 72. 12 summer school credits x 3 years (including the summer after spring semester of his senior year =36. 72+36=108, 20 hours short of graduation. Didn't ANY of his JC credits transfer? Are you sure it was not POSSIBLE for him to graduate?
As I explained up above, many Jucos are phy ed majors. Without a phy ed program at Marquette, credits can transfer, but they may not transfer as part of their major. So they only have two years to build a major, a minor, and fill in any blanks in their core curriculum requirements. It isn't easy.
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How many hours is it POSSIBLE for a student to take per semester at MU? 18? 21? 18x4 semesters = 72. 12 summer school credits x 3 years (including the summer after spring semester of his senior year =36. 72+36=108, 20 hours short of graduation. Didn't ANY of his JC credits transfer? Are you sure it was not POSSIBLE for him to graduate?
100% positive. You counted three years of summer school credits. Jae had one. He spent the summer before coming to Marquette scrambling to qualify. The summer after Marquette isn't covered either. The basketball team also puts stricter limits on how many classes you can take, 15 is the max (without special permission). They also push student athletes to take 12 because of how big of a time suck basketball is.
And yes, Jae came in with almost 0 (if not 0) credits towards a major. The whole going to an unaccredited juco and blitzing through an associate's degree as phy ed major in one year really hurt him.
It was not humanly possible for Jae to finish before his eligibility ran out. But the university allowed it. We took the hit in APR and were fine with it. Afterwards, the administration decided that taking a student who had 0% chance of graduating before his eligibility ran out made it seem like the university cared more about the athlete part of student athlete than the student part. Some universities are ok with that, others aren't.
To be clear, Jae is a fantastic human being. I had classes with him, worked with him, he even gave me his championship hat after winning paradise jam. I'm glad the university took a chance on him. I hope the university takes more chances on students like Jae who are not basketball players. In fact, we could recruit another Jae Crowder situation player in the future, but it will come with the stipulation of a redshirt. Which would better for the student side of student athlete.
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How many hours is it POSSIBLE for a student to take per semester at MU? 18? 21? 18x4 semesters = 72. 12 summer school credits x 3 years (including the summer after spring semester of his senior year =36. 72+36=108, 20 hours short of graduation. Didn't ANY of his JC credits transfer? Are you sure it was not POSSIBLE for him to graduate?
The other thing you are forgetting is that in many major programs, certain prerequisites need to be met before other classes can be taken. So it isn't just about the number of credits, its about having enough time to stack courses on top of one another.
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The other thing you are forgetting is that in many major programs, certain prerequisites need to be met before other classes can be taken. So it isn't just about the number of credits, its about having enough time to stack courses on top of one another.
Also true.
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Buzz is screaming in his hokie hokie hell hole.
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2014/10/28/7084991/marquette-basketball-recruiting-deshawn-freeman-steve-wojciechowski-wojo
The old philosophical question...if a redneck screams in Blacksburg, will anyone notice?
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This seems like an unnecessary stand if we were to adopt a the 'lifetime' scholarship process (if caring for the student is the concern). That way they can have the path to a degree available but also achieve their dreams like any other college bball player (i.e. I think Lazar was thrown out as an example).
Now I'm not advocating taking a risk so often that you blow the APR score, but I think it is really silly to say you won't recruit a JUCO that can't finish but will recruit someone in the top 5 that has indicated he will likely not be a 4 year player. I guess it makes the administration 'feel better' but it sure seems like a technicality to me.
Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
100% positive. You counted three years of summer school credits. Jae had one. He spent the summer before coming to Marquette scrambling to qualify. The summer after Marquette isn't covered either. The basketball team also puts stricter limits on how many classes you can take, 15 is the max (without special permission). They also push student athletes to take 12 because of how big of a time suck basketball is.
And yes, Jae came in with almost 0 (if not 0) credits towards a major. The whole going to an unaccredited juco and blitzing through an associate's degree as phy ed major in one year really hurt him.
It was not humanly possible for Jae to finish before his eligibility ran out. But the university allowed it. We took the hit in APR and were fine with it. Afterwards, the administration decided that taking a student who had 0% chance of graduating before his eligibility ran out made it seem like the university cared more about the athlete part of student athlete than the student part. Some universities are ok with that, others aren't.
To be clear, Jae is a fantastic human being. I had classes with him, worked with him, he even gave me his championship hat after winning paradise jam. I'm glad the university took a chance on him. I hope the university takes more chances on students like Jae who are not basketball players. In fact, we could recruit another Jae Crowder situation player in the future, but it will come with the stipulation of a redshirt. Which would better for the student side of student athlete.
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This seems like an unnecessary stand if we were to adopt a the 'lifetime' scholarship process (if caring for the student is the concern). That way they can have the path to a degree available but also achieve their dreams like any other college bball player (i.e. I think Lazar was thrown out as an example).
Now I'm not advocating taking a risk so often that you blow the APR score, but I think it is really silly to say you won't recruit a JUCO that can't finish but will recruit someone in the top 5 that has indicated he will likely not be a 4 year player. I guess it makes the administration 'feel better' but it sure seems like a technicality to me.
Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
+10,000
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This seems like an unnecessary stand if we were to adopt a the 'lifetime' scholarship process (if caring for the student is the concern). That way they can have the path to a degree available but also achieve their dreams like any other college bball player (i.e. I think Lazar was thrown out as an example).
Now I'm not advocating taking a risk so often that you blow the APR score, but I think it is really silly to say you won't recruit a JUCO that can't finish but will recruit someone in the top 5 that has indicated he will likely not be a 4 year player. I guess it makes the administration 'feel better' but it sure seems like a technicality to me.
Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
Couldn't agree more.
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As has been said a number of times in this thread, but some folks don';t seem to understand, no one is one and done until they leave the University after 1 year. So, there is a big difference between a juco who cannot graduate in two years, and someone who chooses to leave marquette after playing one season.
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As has been said a number of times in this thread, but some folks don';t seem to understand, no one is one and done until they leave the University after 1 year. So, there is a big difference between a juco who cannot graduate in two years, and someone who chooses to leave marquette after playing one season.
To be clear I understand it perfectly - its not an unclear statement nor hard to grasp.
I just don't agree that the difference is as great as what it is being made out to be.
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I just don't agree that the difference is as great as what it is being made out to be.
The difference is that a student going pro is on the student. Admitting someone who cannot graduate is on the university.
May seem small to us but its an important distinction to university administrators.
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Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
And there was definitely an element of that when the decision was made.
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"to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground. "
sounds like chicos in about 19800 of his posts
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The difference is that a student going pro is on the student. Admitting someone who cannot graduate is on the university.
May seem small to us but its an important distinction to university administrators.
So they like to live in a fairy tale rather than deal with the real world, all the while making sure their own backsides are covered. Inspiring.
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So they like to live in a fairy tale rather than deal with the real world, all the while making sure their own backsides are covered. Inspiring.
If Marquette takes a potential one and done, they will do everything they can to convince that player to stay and complete their degree. That fulfills their duties as an educational body. Putting a player in an situation where it is impossible for them to graduate is the opposite of that.
This also isn't just about a policy Marquette made up out of thin air. The administration felt they weren't in compliance with NCAA bylaws. Not everyone interprets the policy the same way but I can share that TAMU holds itself to the same standards that Marquette does.
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This seems like an unnecessary stand if we were to adopt a the 'lifetime' scholarship process (if caring for the student is the concern). That way they can have the path to a degree available but also achieve their dreams like any other college bball player (i.e. I think Lazar was thrown out as an example).
If we do adopt this model, than I agree that this issue would goes away.
Now I'm not advocating taking a risk so often that you blow the APR score, but I think it is really silly to say you won't recruit a JUCO that can't finish but will recruit someone in the top 5 that has indicated he will likely not be a 4 year player. I guess it makes the administration 'feel better' but it sure seems like a technicality to me.
Technicalities matter though. UConn ended up with a postseason ban because of technicalities. To me, it is more than a technicality. If I recruit a top 5 kid, I have a chance of convincing him to complete his degree. If I recruit someone who won't be able to graduate, I am using him for his basketball talent. If we don't put him in a position to earn his degree, than we fail him as and educational body. It's not a fair trade to say we get your basketball talent and you don't get a degree. Now it worked out in Jae's case because he got an NBA paycheck, but if it hadn't...
Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
The only false moral high-ground I have seen is people acting like those who support the policy are "arrogant," "discriminatory," and "live in ivory towers." If you want to advocate for Marquette taking chances on more students who don't have the grades to make Marquette as a result of growing up in a less privileged environment, please do by all means. I am huge supporter of this and think that Marquette has gotten away from its Jesuit roots by making its education so expensive that only the privileged can afford it without significant help. But then it better be for all students, not just the ones who are good at basketball.
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The policy put in place by the administration was that a recruit must be in a position where it is humanly possible for them to take enough credit hours before their eligibility expires. Potential one and dones are qualified under this rule. Jae Crowder does not. That's the rule. You can say you don't like the rule, but it's not changing. Nor do I personally think it should change. For me, there is an important distinction between "lottery chance possibility" and physically impossible.
I do not have a problem with the rule, except it should be based on five years. I switched majors and it took me 4 1/2 years. I suspect the percentage of students taking 5 years is significantly high, so why limit a basketball player to 4 years. Besides that, if Crowder had turned out not to be so good, he may of stuck around to get his degree. However, if he could not handle normal course work that would move him towards a degree than he should not of been admitted.
I do not think any has mention Artie Green.
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Also Odell Ball
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Also Odell Ball
He was not a Juco. He transferred from a Mid-America Conf. School
Edit: the school was Kent State.
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This seems like an unnecessary stand if we were to adopt a the 'lifetime' scholarship process (if caring for the student is the concern). That way they can have the path to a degree available but also achieve their dreams like any other college bball player (i.e. I think Lazar was thrown out as an example).
Now I'm not advocating taking a risk so often that you blow the APR score, but I think it is really silly to say you won't recruit a JUCO that can't finish but will recruit someone in the top 5 that has indicated he will likely not be a 4 year player. I guess it makes the administration 'feel better' but it sure seems like a technicality to me.
Buzz may have pushed the bounds of the risk taking here -- but seems like an over-correction to act as if we own some sort of false moral high-ground.
Marquette voted against the Lifetime Scholarship when Buzz was here during the NCAA governance meetings. Will be interesting to see if MU changes their stance now and offers those types of scholarships.
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If we do adopt this model, than I agree that this issue would goes away.
Technicalities matter though. UConn ended up with a postseason ban because of technicalities. To me, it is more than a technicality. If I recruit a top 5 kid, I have a chance of convincing him to complete his degree. If I recruit someone who won't be able to graduate, I am using him for his basketball talent. If we don't put him in a position to earn his degree, than we fail him as and educational body. It's not a fair trade to say we get your basketball talent and you don't get a degree. Now it worked out in Jae's case because he got an NBA paycheck, but if it hadn't...
The only false moral high-ground I have seen is people acting like those who support the policy are "arrogant," "discriminatory," and "live in ivory towers." If you want to advocate for Marquette taking chances on more students who don't have the grades to make Marquette as a result of growing up in a less privileged environment, please do by all means. I am huge supporter of this and think that Marquette has gotten away from its Jesuit roots by making its education so expensive that only the privileged can afford it without significant help. But then it better be for all students, not just the ones who are good at basketball.
Both MU & the student athletes are maximizing their benefits from the money-maker called college bball. The moral highground I was referring to is the fact we will feel good about signing a top-5 recruit who typically is not interested in 4 years of college but putting up barriers to someone like Jae Crowder.
Said a different way I hope Wojo told HE that he will do everything in his power to get him to the NBA as soon as possible. I hope he's like Al with Chones and tells him to go get paid as soon as possible. That will get us more top-5/10 recruits.
If this causes us not to be able to sleep at night we shouldn't be at alumni events touting that some services rank our recruiting class as #4 nor should we reiterate our commitment to elite college bball. If we feel bad about using kids for basketball, then we should give them an insurance policy (an education) and ensure they are meeting the academic requirements of our university every semester and making progress towards a degree.
I am not a college administrator which liberates me from the moral dilemma you lay out above. I understand the argument - as I said earlier I just personally don't agree with it.
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Marquette voted against the Lifetime Scholarship when Buzz was here during the NCAA governance meetings. Will be interesting to see if MU changes their stance now and offers those types of scholarships.
So Buzz voted against it? Wow. I would have thought that the president or at least the athletic director would make that call.
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We know that is all horsecrap anyway. Mu is not going to put itself under some mandate. Chicos APR is crap too, the players dont have to graduate in 4 years. Also, guys like Blackledge, Fulce, etc. that come back to MU to finish their degrees do it for free. My goodness after spending hundreds of thousands of dolars do you think MU is going to let these guys hang in the wind a few classes short of their degrees?? Please dont let the borderline psychotic MU hate cloud your common sense. All the anti-Juco hogwash that has been spewed by Mr. Logorrhea I think everyone knows is skewed at best. I think the board has long ago learned that anything that Chicos types is suspect and that the board's antagonist in more cases than not types outright untruths that he feels support his agenda. My guess is the actual 3 anti Juco votes were Chico, hoopaloop, and knight commision.
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So Buzz voted against it? Wow. I would have thought that the president or at least the athletic director would make that call.
From what I could tell, Buzz was busy getting the AD ousted.......
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We know that is all horsecrap anyway. Mu is not going to put itself under some mandate. Chicos APR is crap too, the players dont have to graduate in 4 years. Also, guys like Blackledge, Fulce, etc. that come back to MU to finish their degrees do it for free. My goodness after spending hundreds of thousands of dolars do you think MU is going to let these guys hang in the wind a few classes short of their degrees?? Please dont let the borderline psychotic MU hate cloud your common sense. All the anti-Juco hogwash that has been spewed by Mr. Logorrhea I think everyone knows is skewed at best. I think the board has long ago learned that anything that Chicos types is suspect and that the board's antagonist in more cases than not types outright untruths that he feels support his agenda. My guess is the actual 3 anti Juco votes were Chico, hoopaloop, and knight commision.
I knew you would say that last line, which is why I took a snapshot of my vote...the bolded part lists the vote of the user.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/25gdpck.jpg)
So in typical wrong fashion that you employ often, you got burned.....again. Hoopaloop....well I just went to his member page ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5607 ) and looks like he hasn't been here since 2012....so you're wrong a second time. IU relied HEAVILY on JUCOS under Bob Knight (your words)....Knight didn't even recruit his first JUCO to IU until 1985, which was his 14th year, two NCAA titles had already been achieved along with another Final Four, a bunch of Big Ten titles....heavily. Now, if you were to say Keith Smart played a pivotal role in his last championship year, you would be right....but to say heavily is ridiculous...wrong for the 3rd time. Al McGuire, relied HEAVILY on JUCOs...again, define heavily.
I never said you have to graduate in 4 years for the APR, but you do have a time horizon and it does matter as long as the NCAA is using the APR, which they are and plan on continuing to do so.
Finally, with all of your other histrionics, no one is against JUCOs, it is the quantity that matters because the risk reward isn't there. If Wojo feels there is a JUCO player that will help, he'll go after him. I doubt very strongly we will be in a situation under Wojo where 40% of our players are JUCOs. I could be wrong....maybe as many times as you were in this thread alone.
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From what I could tell, Buzz was busy getting the AD ousted.......
From what YOU could tell, which is nothing. Is there a History professor you've got a hard on for who happened to be at MU when our President/AD voted on this? Maybe they/you can pin this on him/her.
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From what YOU could tell, which is nothing. Is there a History professor you've got a hard on for who happened to be at MU when our President/AD voted on this? Maybe they/you can pin this on him/her.
Larry Williams's leaving was 100% related to a lack of ability to work with Bazz Williams.
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I knew you would say that last line, which is why I took a snapshot of my vote...the bolded part lists the vote of the user.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/25gdpck.jpg)
So in typical wrong fashion that you employ often, you got burned.....again. Hoopaloop....well I just went to his member page ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5607 ) and looks like he hasn't been here since 2012....so you're wrong a second time. IU relied HEAVILY on JUCOS under Bob Knight (your words)....Knight didn't even recruit his first JUCO to IU until 1985, which was his 14th year, two NCAA titles had already been achieved along with another Final Four, a bunch of Big Ten titles....heavily. Now, if you were to say Keith Smart played a pivotal role in his last championship year, you would be right....but to say heavily is ridiculous...wrong for the 3rd time. Al McGuire, relied HEAVILY on JUCOs...again, define heavily.
I never said you have to graduate in 4 years for the APR, but you do have a time horizon and it does matter as long as the NCAA is using the APR, which they are and plan on continuing to do so.
Finally, with all of your other histrionics, no one is against JUCOs, it is the quantity that matters because the risk reward isn't there. If Wojo feels there is a JUCO player that will help, he'll go after him. I doubt very strongly we will be in a situation under Wojo where 40% of our players are JUCOs. I could be wrong....maybe as many times as you were in this thread alone.
For such an ardent IU fan you sure do have a bad memory.
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If you want to be a student at MU, you have to be able to graduate. That's reasonable.
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For such an ardent IU fan you sure do have a bad memory.
No, I really don't.
1971-1985, Bob Knight at IU had zero JUCOs. He didn't like JUCOs, felt they were academic risks, etc. I'd invite you to read Season on the Brink. Ironically, he felt in the mid 1980's that his teams lacked athleticism so he went into the JUCO ranks and signed a few kids, including Keith Smart and Dean Garrett.
In his entire 29 years at IU, how many JUCOs did he take....since he relied on them so heavily (your words)? LOL.
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If you want to be a student at MU, you have to be able to graduate. That's reasonable.
Be able to? Sure. But there are tons of students who went to Marquette that never graduated. Our governor happens to be one (hah). And what happens to students who don't graduated in 4 years? Are they punished? No.
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Be able to? Sure. But there are tons of students who went to Marquette that never graduated. Our governor happens to be one (hah). And what happens to students who don't graduated in 4 years? Are they punished? No.
Depending on how you interpret NCAA bylaws, you shouldn't admit student athletes who can't graduate before their eligibility runs out. It's a strict interpretation but TAMU views it the same way.
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Not what I said. But if you think about it, all students are accepted with the possibility of graduating in four years. Jae was accepted despite it being impossible for him to graduate in four years. There is a difference. There's a reason you don't see many people transfer into Marquette from a community college.
It's becoming increasingly rare that ANYONE graduates in 4 years these days.
What your essentially arguing is that Jae Crowder shouldn't have been accepted because he couldn't graduate in 4 years. So what you would have rather done is tell the JUCO kid who worked his ass off to become eligible that "sorry we can't accept you because you won't finish by the time basketball is over. Therefore we won't help you get a degree at all." Now we can debate the politics of "student athletes" all day, but what should be the case here is accepting people who are academically eligible. What does it matter if they graduate in 4 years or not?
Jae Crowder never graduated like so many others before him because he could make a living off of playing basketball. Last time I checked, no degree will help you play better basketball in the NBA. Now if Crowder had turned out to be a complete bust/had a career ending injury he would have those 2 years at Marquette to fall back on and help him tremendously. Instead you propose to just give him zero years and zero help.
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It's becoming increasingly rare that ANYONE graduates in 4 years these days.
What your essentially arguing is that Jae Crowder shouldn't have been accepted because he couldn't graduate in 4 years. So what you would have rather done is tell the JUCO kid who worked his ass off to become eligible that "sorry we can't accept you because you won't finish by the time basketball is over. Therefore we won't help you get a degree at all." Now we can debate the politics of "student athletes" all day, but what should be the case here is accepting people who are academically eligible. What does it matter if they graduate in 4 years or not?
Jae Crowder never graduated like so many others before him because he could make a living off of playing basketball. Last time I checked, no degree will help you play better basketball in the NBA. Now if Crowder had turned out to be a complete bust/had a career ending injury he would have those 2 years at Marquette to fall back on and help him tremendously. Instead you propose to just give him zero years and zero help.
Second that, Jae got a great education. For a few years he will be the highest paid out of his class. If he wants to graduate 10 years from now he can. But if he lasts in the
NBA for 10 years he will be able to retire, and isn't that the reason you go to college, to improve your future?
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Be able to? Sure. But there are tons of students who went to Marquette that never graduated. Our governor happens to be one (hah). And what happens to students who don't graduated in 4 years? Are they punished? No.
Right, and when those students enrolled, they had acceptable grades, test scores, etc.
MU won't take a kid who doesn't have a HS degree. MU won't take a kid who got a 7 on his ACT.
Why should MU be compelled to take a kid who doesn't have enough or the right credits to be on track to graduate?
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How about Connor Frankamp. Kid's leaving KU, Top 40 guard, can shoot.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article3493896.html
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Right, and when those students enrolled, they had acceptable grades, test scores, etc.
MU won't take a kid who doesn't have a HS degree. MU won't take a kid who got a 7 on his ACT.
Why should MU be compelled to take a kid who doesn't have enough or the right credits to be on track to graduate?
Compelled? No. Who said compelled? Nonetheless, I'm damn glad Jae Crowder came to MU.
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Right, and when those students enrolled, they had acceptable grades, test scores, etc.
MU won't take a kid who doesn't have a HS degree. MU won't take a kid who got a 7 on his ACT.
Why should MU be compelled to take a kid who doesn't have enough or the right credits to be on track to graduate?
Because that player has a high school diploma and didn't get a 7 on his ACT? I, at 25 years old, could re-enroll at Marquette University starting in the Spring and pursue a degree that I do not have. There is no timetable saying, "You must graduate from Marquette University in four years." Or, "You must have graduated by the end of the school year that you turn 22 years old in." I could work full time, go to Marquette University part time, and get another degree over the course of 6 years. Why should we limit student-athletes, who put more time and effort into both the student and the athlete part than I did as just a student, to just 4 years to get a degree?
Just because some students are not on track to graduate in 4 years doesn't mean they aren't on track to graduate at all, or won't graduate at all.
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Compelled? No. Who said compelled? Nonetheless, I'm damn glad Jae Crowder came to MU.
Right, but MU's policy doesn't retroactively remove Jae from the record books.
This isn't about Jae.
This is about an academic policy that MU has in place. As TAMU explained it, it seems reasonable to me. They want to take kids to have a chance to graduate in 4 years. I don't see anything wrong with that approach.
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Because that player has a high school diploma and didn't get a 7 on his ACT? I, at 25 years old, could re-enroll at Marquette University starting in the Spring and pursue a degree that I do not have. There is no timetable saying, "You must graduate from Marquette University in four years." Or, "You must have graduated by the end of the school year that you turn 22 years old in." I could work full time, go to Marquette University part time, and get another degree over the course of 6 years. Why should we limit student-athletes, who put more time and effort into both the student and the athlete part than I did as just a student, to just 4 years to get a degree?
Just because some students are not on track to graduate in 4 years doesn't mean they aren't on track to graduate at all, or won't graduate at all.
Righhht, but student athletes HAVE to be full-time students. That's part of the deal. There are all sorts of restrictions on student athletes that regular students don't have. That's not new.
Also, if you want to go to MU and pay your own way, you have lots of options. If you want to go to MU and be on a scholarship (athletic or academic), there are some restrictions on you (how many classes you take, GPA, major, etc. etc.).
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Righhht, but student athletes HAVE to be full-time students. That's part of the deal. There are all sorts of restrictions on student athletes that regular students don't have. That's not new.
Also, if you want to go to MU and pay your own way, you have lots of options. If you want to go to MU and be on a scholarship (athletic or academic), there are some restrictions on you (how many classes you take, GPA, major, etc. etc.).
Again, correct.
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Righhht, but student athletes HAVE to be full-time students. That's part of the deal. There are all sorts of restrictions on student athletes that regular students don't have. That's not new.
Also, if you want to go to MU and pay your own way, you have lots of options. If you want to go to MU and be on a scholarship (athletic or academic), there are some restrictions on you (how many classes you take, GPA, major, etc. etc.).
Right. And these kids have been and would be full time students. I have yet to see a reasonable argument to require student athletes to finish their degree in 4 years. If a player redshirts due to not being ready to contribute to the team do we kick him out after 4 years? If he redshirts due to injury do we kick him out of Marquette after 4 years?
I'm with you, these players need to stay academically eligible. But being academically eligible doesn't require graduating in 4 years.
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Right. And these kids have been and would be full time students. I have yet to see a reasonable argument to require student athletes to finish their degree in 4 years. If a player redshirts due to not being ready to contribute to the team do we kick him out after 4 years? If he redshirts due to injury do we kick him out of Marquette after 4 years?
I'm with you, these players need to stay academically eligible. But being academically eligible doesn't require graduating in 4 years.
1. Some universities interpret it is a requirement of NCAA bylaws.
2. School cannot pay for their tuition after eligibility runs out and most cannot afford tuition without help.
3. It can hurt APR score.
4. Administration views taking a basketball player who has no chance of graduation as unethical. Exploits the athlete part of student athlete and doesn't support the student part.
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1. Some universities interpret it is a requirement of NCAA bylaws.
2. School cannot pay for their tuition after eligibility runs out and most cannot afford tuition without help.
3. It can hurt APR score.
4. Administration views taking a basketball player who has no chance of graduation as unethical. Exploits the athlete part of student athlete and doesn't support the student part.
So giving someone 2 years worth of free education/the opportunity to become 2 years closer to completing a degree without paying a penny for it is "exploint[ing] the athlete part of student athlete" without "support[ing] the student part?" Not to mention, reaping the absurd amount of monetary benefit that the student athletes on the basketball team bring to the University is not "exploint[ing] the athlete part of student athlete?" If these are truly "administration views" then I have some serious questions about/problems with the administration. Especially at a Jesuit University. The Jesuits were about allowing underprivileged people the opportunity for a quality education. We're going to tell a kid who has worked his butt off to go from not being eligible out of high school to completing an associate degree to become eligible for division 1 basketball that he's not good enough for our school because he won't complete his degree in 4 years when we don't even require that from the rest of our student body? Wow.
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So giving someone 2 years worth of free education/the opportunity to become 2 years closer to completing a degree without paying a penny for it is "exploint[ing] the athlete part of student athlete" without "support[ing] the student part?" Not to mention, reaping the absurd amount of monetary benefit that the student athletes on the basketball team bring to the University is not "exploint[ing] the athlete part of student athlete?" If these are truly "administration views" then I have some serious questions about/problems with the administration. Especially at a Jesuit University. The Jesuits were about allowing underprivileged people the opportunity for a quality education. We're going to tell a kid who has worked his butt off to go from not being eligible out of high school to completing an associate degree to become eligible for division 1 basketball that he's not good enough for our school because he won't complete his degree in 4 years when we don't even require that from the rest of our student body? Wow.
Don't try to take the moral high ground unless you are fighting for ALL underprivledged students without the proper grades to get into Marquette. That is a noble cause. Fighting to allow students who won't be successful off the court at Marquette to play basketball for you is something else.
You also ignored the first three points.
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4. Administration views taking a basketball player who has no chance of graduation as unethical. Exploits the athlete part of student athlete and doesn't support the student part.
You do realize that a vast majority of "student athletes" enroll in an utterly useless communications degree correct?
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Don't try to take the moral high ground unless you are fighting for ALL underprivledged students without the proper grades to get into Marquette. That is a noble cause. Fighting to allow students who won't be successful off the court at Marquette to play basketball for you is something else.
You also ignored the first three points.
Except that Marquette already makes exceptions when it comes to admitting student athletes to the school, as does just about every single college in America. So no, that's not taking the "moral high ground," it's pointing out an incredible flaw in "policy." If a JUCO meets all the requirements to get into Marquette University there is absolutely no reason we should be denying them because they will take extra time to graduate. Either that or we should be kicking every student out after 4 years at Marquette.
And okay?
1) Okay.
2) Okay. (Although given the fact that D3 schools that cannot give out athletic scholarships find a way to make an education affordable to student athletes that they want in their programs, I think Marquette could probably find a way to make its education affordable for an extra semester to a basketball player who helped bring in millions of dollars for the school and who also helps Marquette by getting that degree - see point 3 - so not sure this one's not easily addressed either.)
3) Okay.
I didn't know you had to disprove every facet of an argument. Imagine a lawyer pulling out that card in court. "But your honor, he only absolutely disproved the fact that his client didn't in fact trip the victim, the victim instead drunkenly tripped over his own foot. But he never addressed that his client had been drinking, his client was in the same building as the victim, and the victim is now paralyzed due to a fall. So...his client has to be guilty!"
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You do realize that a vast majority of "student athletes" enroll in an utterly useless communications degree correct?
I was a communications major and am currently working in a very comfortable job, thank you very much.
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Except that Marquette already makes exceptions when it comes to admitting student athletes to the school, as does just about every single college in America....Either that or we should be kicking every student out after 4 years at Marquette.
True, student-athletes get exceptions during the admissions process all the time. They also have extra requirements put on them all the time. There are universities that restrict them to certain majors, don't allow them to double major, don't allow them to study abroad, limit them to certain credit hours, force them to go to certain academic programs, etc. Having one that stipulates that the must be humanly possible for them to graduate before their eligibility runs out is fairly common and mundane.
So no, that's not taking the "moral high ground," it's pointing out an incredible flaw in "policy." If a JUCO meets all the requirements to get into Marquette University there is absolutely no reason we should be denying them because they will take extra time to graduate.
Sorry, I took the whole "Jesuits are all about helping underprivileged students" as trying to take the moral high ground. Marquette values the academics of their players. It is an important factor in deciding who we recruit and who we don't. Marquette only wants to recruit students who they think will be successful at Marquette. Part of the university's definition of success (and the NCAA's) is graduation. If it is not humanely possible for them to graduate before their eligibility runs out, that is a significant risk factor to whether or not the student will be successful at Marquette.
2) Okay. (Although given the fact that D3 schools that cannot give out athletic scholarships find a way to make an education affordable to student athletes that they want in their programs, I think Marquette could probably find a way to make its education affordable for an extra semester to a basketball player who helped bring in millions of dollars for the school and who also helps Marquette by getting that degree - see point 3 - so not sure this one's not easily addressed either.
I still haven't decided excatly where I fall on this argument. On one hand, I think a full ride to a university is pretty healthy compensation. But on the other hand, there are many policies the NCAA has that are quesionable at best and really trod on the student-athlete's rights. But as of right now, it is out of Marquette's hands. They don't have the power to change NCAA bylaws (by themselves). And D3 schools are a much different monster than D1. They are by in large, exponentially less expensive than a school like Marquette. They also are intentional about the socio-economic status of students they recruit. Before TAMU, I worked at a D2 school and we had to be very intentional about who we were recruiting since we could only give partial rides.
I didn't know you had to disprove every facet of an argument. Imagine a lawyer pulling out that card in court. "But your honor, he only absolutely disproved the fact that his client didn't in fact trip the victim, the victim instead drunkenly tripped over his own foot. But he never addressed that his client had been drinking, his client was in the same building as the victim, and the victim is now paralyzed due to a fall. So...his client has to be guilty!"
You don't. I was just pointing out that I had three other less "philosophical" arguments. Also, I was very drunk when I wrote that last night, was impressed it came out coherent at all. And I'm very hungover while writing this (damn 11 am football game), so if it's not coherent, I apologize.
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You do realize that a vast majority of "student athletes" enroll in an utterly useless communications degree correct?
Major stereotype. Maybe some of the classes are easier for certain majors but as someone who's in advertising Id laugh at seeing someone like yourself do the stuff we do with the kind of pressure we do. Hey next time you watch those really awesome super bowl advertisements with your family and think "how do they come up with this stuff" you can go ahead and remind yourself it was a bunch of people with that "useless communication degree"
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Major stereotype. Maybe some of the classes are easier for certain majors but as someone who's in advertising Id laugh at seeing someone like yourself do the stuff we do with the kind of pressure we do. Hey next time you watch those really awesome super bowl advertisements with your family and think "how do they come up with this stuff" you can go ahead and remind yourself it was a bunch of people with that "useless communication degree"
http://www.university.com/most_laid_back_majors/
There's a reason a vast majority of profit based sports take this major. It's because its the least time consuming of all majors across the board. The next time your studying for hours on end, remember theres a 100 other majors pulling 3x the amount of all nighters.
Edit:Some more reading on this "problem"
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2014/06/01/Do-colleges-drop-the-ball-with-student-athletes/stories/201406010120
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/jun/15/athletes-tendencies-cluster-certain-academic-field/
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2010/10/27/majors-duke-football-player-choice-academic-majors
http://dailyorange.com/2013/04/major-issues-trend-toward-crs-cfs-raise-questions-at-syracuse/
I attempted to weed out the ones that include non profit sports as that can skew the results.
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If you are hard-working, personable, and have at least some base level of intelligence, you will get a decent job, regardless of major. It may take you a little longer to get one since you lose some of the signalling value and/or technical expertise that other majors have/require, but you will eventually get a solid job, from which you can always work your way up.
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You do realize that a vast majority of "student athletes" enroll in an utterly useless communications degree correct?
Hey ... my wife and I earned utterly useless communications degrees!
Actually, it was Journalism back then. And one of us (me) did become a journalist. So it was only semi-useless. Take back that "utterly" at once!
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Major stereotype. Maybe some of the classes are easier for certain majors but as someone who's in advertising Id laugh at seeing someone like yourself do the stuff we do with the kind of pressure we do. Hey next time you watch those really awesome super bowl advertisements with your family and think "how do they come up with this stuff" you can go ahead and remind yourself it was a bunch of people with that "useless communication degree"
Worked with marketing/advertising people a lot when I was involved in IT/Multimedia and always thought they had a lot tougher job than I did. I didn't have to be "creative".
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Hey ... my wife and I earned utterly useless communications degrees!
Actually, it was Journalism back then. And one of us (me) did become a journalist. So it was only semi-useless. Take back that "utterly" at once!
But Journalism and communication degrees aren't the same silly =)
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1. Some universities interpret it is a requirement of NCAA bylaws.
2. School cannot pay for their tuition after eligibility runs out and most cannot afford tuition without help.
3. It can hurt APR score.
4. Administration views taking a basketball player who has no chance of graduation as unethical. Exploits the athlete part of student athlete and doesn't support the student part.
Wow, don't get me started. How was slavery possible in America for so long? How was the England's oppression of Ireland and India justified? By self serving intellectual rationalizations like this crud.
The NCAA will undermine any financially feasible basketball minor league system by functioning as that minor league system, but them will only take those players who don't make them look bad while they do it. Do you lack the talent to succeed as both a student and an athlete at an NCAA institution? Well, sucks to be you, it isn't the NCAA's problem. Although the NCAA created that problem for you, the NCAA won't help you deal with it because that would be exploitation.
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http://www.university.com/most_laid_back_majors/
There's a reason a vast majority of profit based sports take this major. It's because its the least time consuming of all majors across the board. The next time your studying for hours on end, remember theres a 100 other majors pulling 3x the amount of all nighters.
Edit:Some more reading on this "problem"
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/college/2014/06/01/Do-colleges-drop-the-ball-with-student-athletes/stories/201406010120
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/jun/15/athletes-tendencies-cluster-certain-academic-field/
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2010/10/27/majors-duke-football-player-choice-academic-majors
http://dailyorange.com/2013/04/major-issues-trend-toward-crs-cfs-raise-questions-at-syracuse/
I attempted to weed out the ones that include non profit sports as that can skew the results.
First I'm an alum I don't find myself studying for hours on end anymore thank you.
Second, communication is a college that you insulted, yes there is a comm major that it entirely worthless but when you insult the whole college I'll get defensive. Time or not you didn't directly address anything I said nor did you provide data backing up your claim that it was useless you instead just threw some random data about how much time is invested in studying. Well like anything you get out what you put in. It might be easier to get a C but in the end I'd argue an A is just as much a pain as many other schools' classes
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But Journalism and communication degrees aren't the same silly =)
600 years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was at Marquette, there was no such major as "communications."
And I will admit that, as a Journalism major, I had it easier than most of my non-J-school friends. They were always studying for tests. In J-school, especially as an upperclassman, I got to write articles and papers rather than take tests.
Of course, many of my friends thought I had it tougher because, to them, writing anything was pure torture.
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Just to bring this back on point:
There are certain requirements for kids of scholarships (academic, evans scholars, athletic, etc.). GPA, class load, major, etc. etc.
MU's stance on accepting athletic transfers who are on track to graduate (before their eligibility runs out) seems reasonable to me, and seems to be in line with the other various scholarship policies that I know of.
I'm pretty sure if I get a full academic scholarship to MU, it's not good indefinitely. I can't keep changing majors and be in school for free for 8 years. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Just to bring this back on point:
There are certain requirements for kids of scholarships (academic, evans scholars, athletic, etc.). GPA, class load, major, etc. etc.
MU's stance on accepting athletic transfers who are on track to graduate (before their eligibility runs out) seems reasonable to me, and seems to be in line with the other various scholarship policies that I know of.
I'm pretty sure if I get a full academic scholarship to MU, it's not good indefinitely. I can't keep changing majors and be in school for free for 8 years. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
How dare you get back on point! How 'bout that protest in Minnesota about the Washington NFL team's name?
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Just to bring this back on point:
There are certain requirements for kids of scholarships (academic, evans scholars, athletic, etc.). GPA, class load, major, etc. etc.
MU's stance on accepting athletic transfers who are on track to graduate (before their eligibility runs out) seems reasonable to me, and seems to be in line with the other various scholarship policies that I know of.
I'm pretty sure if I get a full academic scholarship to MU, it's not good indefinitely. I can't keep changing majors and be in school for free for 8 years. Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
What's funny is my brother got the Burke Scholarship (full scholarship) and did not enjoy his living situation the first semester of his sophomore year, so he chose to take the 2nd semester off his sophomore year and volunteer in PA for the semester. He still received the full scholarship for the Burke for the extra semester he was at Marquette beyond his 4 years.
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What's funny is my brother got the Burke Scholarship (full scholarship) and did not enjoy his living situation the first semester of his sophomore year, so he chose to take the 2nd semester off his sophomore year and volunteer in PA for the semester. He still received the full scholarship for the Burke for the extra semester he was at Marquette beyond his 4 years.
Fair enough. Honestly, I won't pretend to know all of MU's scholarships and scholarship requirements. I was making a broad assumption, but maybe I'm just an idiot. I did graduate from the school of communications (gasp!).
The athletic transfer policy sounds reasonable. I guess that's it (for me).
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Major stereotype. Maybe some of the classes are easier for certain majors but as someone who's in advertising Id laugh at seeing someone like yourself do the stuff we do with the kind of pressure we do. Hey next time you watch those really awesome super bowl advertisements with your family and think "how do they come up with this stuff" you can go ahead and remind yourself it was a bunch of people with that "useless communication degree"
According to MadMen everyone in advertising starts cocktailing at 10AM and screws the available babes whenever the opportunity presents itself. Sounds like fun to me.
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According to MadMen everyone in advertising starts cocktailing at 10AM and screws the available babes whenever the opportunity presents itself. Sounds like fun to me.
That's only at them fancy New York firms. The rest of us are working sober and with our flies zipped.
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I was hoping to see Marquette mentioned in this article from yesterday. This JUCO can really hit the boards and he has a strong frame to handle the big east.
http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/node/2817777
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Brad Winton
14h14 hours ago
Brad Winton @JucoRecruiting
Danny Hurley is at Hutchinson CC today to see Deshawn Freeman
Does anyone have any info on our continued interest in him? Seems like he'd be a great 3-4 combo forward for us.
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And D3 schools are a much different monster than D1. They are by in large, exponentially less expensive than a school like Marquette.
Just saw this, and have to correct this. Sarah Lawrence is the most expensive college in America. D3.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-10-most-expensive-colleges-in-america-2014-11
Most on this list are D3.
They spend a lot less on athletics than D1 schools, but its wrong to claim they are "exponentially less expensive"
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Brad Winton
14h14 hours ago
Brad Winton @JucoRecruiting
Danny Hurley is at Hutchinson CC today to see Deshawn Freeman
Does anyone have any info on our continued interest in him? Seems like he'd be a great 3-4 combo forward for us.
Haven't been mentioned with him in ages. Think the staff is pretty keyed in on the grad market.
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Haven't been mentioned with him in ages. Think the staff is pretty keyed in on the grad market.
So brew, do you think they are getting anywhere? It's been pretty quiet. Perhaps just want to publicly focus on the signings next week.
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So brew, do you think they are getting anywhere? It's been pretty quiet. Perhaps just want to publicly focus on the signings next week.
The past week was a dead period that ends today. Wojo was on vacation, and I am assuming the rest of the staff was as well. My guess is that we will hear within the next week or two about any grad transfers.
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The past week was a dead period that ends today. Wojo was on vacation, and I am assuming the rest of the staff was as well. My guess is that we will hear within the next week or two about any grad transfers.
This.
Also heard that Damion Lee won't be deciding until May.
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Okay, thanks guys.
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Committed to Rutgers today.
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And D3 schools are a much different monster than D1. They are by in large, exponentially less expensive than a school like Marquette.
Uh, one of ours went to Middlebury College where he played LAX and rowed crew. Middlebury tuition, room and board exceeds $60k year. I would guess the other Little Ivies (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Bates, etc...) are comparable.
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Uh, one of ours went to Middlebury College where he played LAX and rowed crew. Middlebury tuition, room and board exceeds $60k year. I would guess the other Little Ivies (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Bates, etc...) are comparable.
Great School And I bet he totally enjoyed every second it.