MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Windyplayer on October 15, 2014, 01:11:02 PM
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So we have a pretty good UW team at the BC this year with a chance to pick up a marquee non-conference win...but Kaminsky has been standing in the way of my optimism.
How do we guard him? Taylor and then double team when he gets the ball in the paint? I'm a big fan of Burton putting a body on him from time to time when he's roving around the perimeter or coming over on an aggressive double team. I'll take my lumps at the line every now and then. (although don't want Burton getting into foul trouble). I know Burton is not the best defender at least as of last year, but he has solid body and off-the-chart athleticism, which should be used to throw Kaminsky off his game once and a while.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
Pray......
Possibly the best UW team ever and MU with a young, untested and undersized team with a rookie head coach.......
Home court will help but winning is highly unlikely...
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Yeah, not only do you have to worry about Kaminsky, but then who do you stick on Dekker?
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Thoughts?
Pray......
Possibly the best UW team ever and MU with a young, untested and undersized team with a rookie head coach.......
Home court will help but winning is highly unlikely...
Praying was bandied about in my head as well.
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If Burton put as much effort into defense as he put into finding shots he'd win Big East Player of the year....
So we have a pretty good UW team at the BC this year with a chance to pick up a marquee non-conference win...but Kaminsky has been standing in the way of my optimism.
How do we guard him? Taylor and then double team when he gets the ball in the paint? I'm a big fan of Burton putting a body on him from time to time when he's roving around the perimeter or coming over on an aggressive double team. I'll take my lumps at the line every now and then. (although don't want Burton getting into foul trouble). I know Burton is not the best defender at least as of last year, but he has solid body and off-the-chart athleticism, which should be used to throw Kaminsky off his game once and a while.
Thoughts?
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Yeah, not only do you have to worry about Kaminsky, but then who do you stick on Dekker?
JJJ? Height differential of around 4 inches, but not like Dekker is going to be posting him up all that often. I feel pretty good about JJJ matching up with Dekker's athleticism.
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JJJ? Height differential of around 4 inches, but not like Dekker is going to be posting him up all that often. I feel pretty good about JJJ matching up with Dekker's athleticism.
I don't "feel good" about it, but I don't see much of a choice. Dekker can shoot over JJJ all day long.
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I don't "feel good" about it, but I don't see much of a choice. Dekker can shoot over JJJ all day long.
Shot 32% from beyond the arc last year, a 7% drop from the prior year. As long as JJJ can stick with him around the perimeter and get a hand in his face, I don't think he'll beat us from there. And as far as driving, JJJ has the agility and speed to stay in front of him.
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We have to be fast and quick and use our entire roster. Each player that is in the game has to give 100 percent max effort on both ends until they are exhausted. Wojo will provide the leadership to make this happen.
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MU may not win but I predict a close game. Remember two years ago when a high seeded team from this state was lucky to get out of the second round, had tons of hype and was returning 4 starters? Remember how that went? Just saying, UW was lucky to beat Oregon and had they lost The narrative would be different.
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Yeah, not only do you have to worry about Kaminsky, but then who do you stick on Dekker?
Juan.
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Thoughts?
Pray......
Possibly the best UW team ever and MU with a young, untested and undersized team with a rookie head coach.......
Home court will help but winning is highly unlikely...
Jesus Christ everyone, they're not invincible!!!
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Badgers will probably be starting:
Jackson
Gasser
Dekker
Hayes
Kaminsky
I would counter with
Jackson - Derrick
Gasser - Carlino/JJJ
Dekker - Burton/JJJ
Hayes - Juan
Kaminsky - Steve
Steve might need help when Kaminsky in the post. I think you pull the double team from Dekker's man and pray he's having an off shooting night. Jackson and Gasser are too deadly to leave and Hayes will camp near the post. The best option honestly is for Steve to deny Kaminsky from touching the ball in the post at all.
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JJJ? Height differential of around 4 inches, but not like Dekker is going to be posting him up all that often. I feel pretty good about JJJ matching up with Dekker's athleticism.
I predict that JJJ barely plays against UW.
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Juan.
Honestly I forgot about him. LOL.
You are correct about that.
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Jesus Christ everyone, they're not invincible!!!
Nope, especially not in the Bradley Center. Professional athletes may not be rattled in a hostile environment but college kids definitely are and safe to say that college players are a lot more comfortable at home ergo they play better.
Let's not forget a little Big East game against UCONN in 2005 when Novak made it rain and we blew the #2 ranked Huskies at the time out of the water to the tune of a 15-point victory, hanging 94 on'em in the process.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269)
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I don't "feel good" about it, but I don't see much of a choice. Dekker can shoot over JJJ all day long.
This is not our 1977 NCAA Championship team. It's the Red Rodent forcryingoutloud.
I don't expect the rodent to got 30-0, blast through the Big 10 and immediately win the NCAA and be compared to the great UCLA teams. But if you read these posts, you would think Bo is the second coming of John Wooden and Dekker is Kareem Jabbar, BilL Walton, Sidney Wicks and Steve Patterson all rolled into one.
Lighten up folks. It's only October!
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This is not our 1977 NCAA Championship team. It's the Red Rodent forcryingoutloud.
I don't expect the rodent to got 30-0, blast through the Big 10 and immediately win the NCAA and be compared to the great UCLA teams. But if you read these posts, you would think Bo is the second coming of John Wooden and Dekker is Kareem Jabbar, BilL Walton, Sidney Wicks and Steve Patterson all rolled into one.
Lighten up folks. It's only October!
Hyperbole much?
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We have to be fast and quick and use our entire roster. Each player that is in the game has to give 100 percent max effort on both ends until they are exhausted. Wojo will provide the leadership to make this happen.
Nobody has ever won anything unless they give 110%.........100% isn't going to cut it.
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Nope, especially not in the Bradley Center. Professional athletes may not be rattled in a hostile environment but college kids definitely are and safe to say that college players are a lot more comfortable at home ergo they play better.
Let's not forget a little Big East game against UCONN in 2005 when Novak made it rain and we blew the #2 ranked Huskies at the time out of the water to the tune of a 15-point victory, hanging 94 on'em in the process.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269)
Who's going to put up 41 points for us?
Juan.
Exactly. Juan matches up much better with Dekker and Burton with Hayes than the other way around. Hayes would make Juan look like a rag doll on the block. In fact, I'll go on record and say that the 2nd toughest matchup for Marquette in this game is Hayes and not Dekker (obviously behind Kaminsky). Dekker doesn't scare me at all (he'll get his 12 points, fine).
Kaminsky owned the NCAA Tournament when teams played him soft and let him roam around the perimeter without getting into his body. When Kentucky finally bodied him up all over the court he looked lost. It's too bad we don't have any size/depth down low to do that. Steve has the ability to do that, but you can't risk early foul trouble with him being our only size.
This game is a loss. It'll just be interesting to see if we're competitive or not.
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Who's going to put up 41 points for us?
Exactly. Juan matches up much better with Dekker and Burton with Hayes than the other way around. Hayes would make Juan look like a rag doll on the block. In fact, I'll go on record and say that the 2nd toughest matchup for Marquette in this game is Hayes and not Dekker (obviously behind Kaminsky). Dekker doesn't scare me at all (he'll get his 12 points, fine).
Kaminsky owned the NCAA Tournament when teams played him soft and let him roam around the perimeter without getting into his body. When Kentucky finally bodied him up all over the court he looked lost. It's too bad we don't have any size/depth down low to do that. Steve has the ability to do that, but you can't risk early foul trouble with him being our only size.
This game is a loss. It'll just be interesting to see if we're competitive or not.
Ha, did you honestly think Novak was capable of a 41/16 game against the #2 team in the nation. That game single-handedly put him in the NBA draft conversation. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody.
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Ha, did you honestly think Novak was capable of a 41/16 game against the #2 team in the nation. That game single-handedly put him in the NBA draft conversation. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody.
41 and 16? No. But Novak was a known star. Everyone knew when he crossed half court he could hit a shot. Nobody is even close to that type of player on this team. Novak was the best shooter in college basketball, and he was 3" taller than anybody that will be eligible to play in the Wisconsin game for Marquette.
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This game is a loss. It'll just be interesting to see if we're competitive or not.
Guy, this isn't the Heat with LeBron going up against the #8 seed or Samford at the Kohl Center. Pretty poor form to already write this one off as a loss especially at home and with all the question marks (that may be answered in the positive) going into the season.
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Novak was the best shooter in college basketball, and he was 3" taller than anybody that will be eligible to play in the Wisconsin game for Marquette.
Are you saying he would be our answer on defense?
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I forgot. Did we suddenly schedule to play these guys?
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140212023417/villains/images/7/76/Monstars.jpg)
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Guy, this isn't the Heat with LeBron going up against the #8 seed or Samford at the Kohl Center. Pretty poor form to already write this one off as a loss especially at home and with all the question marks (that may be answered in the positive) going into the season.
I must've blacked out when I said it was the Heat against an 8 seed or Samford at the Kohl Hole.
What it is is a veteran Bo Ryan team coming off of a Final Four appearance and returning all but 1 key player against a 19-17 team that lost it's 2 best offensive players from a team that struggled to score the basketball.
Are you saying he would be our answer on defense?
I don't think I said that? Unless I said his 41 and 16 won the Connecticut game on the defensive end of the court? I'm not sure what you're getting at...
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I wonder how different this thread would be if Wisconsin didn't play a home game against Oregon last March...
They're very good, but still reliant on the outside shot. They struggled a bit in the middle of last season. If they're off, and MU is hot, who knows. Wouldn't bet on it, but crazier things have happened.
I'll have a lot better handle on this game once I see how MU deals with Ohio State and Georgia Tech's size.
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I wonder how different this thread would be if Wisconsin didn't play a home game against Oregon last March...
+1
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Novak 41? Hell, we managed only 35 against Ohio State last year - and that was with Gardner and Jamil!
If we play mostly man, there's a very good chance that STJr will get into serious foul trouble, and we know that Juan and Deonte are foul-prone.
Our best chance probably will be to play a zone that collapses on Kaminsky and hope Bucky is cold from outside -- kind of the same defense many teams successfully played against us last year. (Of course, unlike the 13-14 Warriors, Bucky actually has some players who actually can make 3s, including Kaminsky.) If we can get ball-pressure up top and Bucky is loose with the basketball, maybe we'll get some steals and fastbreaks.
Unfortunately, I cannot think of many scenarios that will result in victory for our lads. It's simply the case of an outstanding opponent against an inexperienced, height-challenged, less-talented Marquette team. Hey, it happens ... and it probably won't be the only time it happens next season, a transition year before we get back on a roll.
If Bucky is hitting 3s and we aren't, it could go from a mere defeat to an incredibly ugly, humiliating rout. Think the second half of the OSU game and either Creighton game ... only worse.
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I wonder how different this thread would be if Wisconsin didn't play a home game against Oregon last March...
They're very good, but still reliant on the outside shot. They struggled a bit in the middle of last season. If they're off, and MU is hot, who knows. Wouldn't bet on it, but crazier things have happened.
I'll have a lot better handle on this game once I see how MU deals with Ohio State and Georgia Tech's size.
Sounds like Chicos trying to diminish Bert's accomplishments. The problem is, Wisconsin did play a home game against Oregon last March. Those are the lamest arguments out there. "If this team didn't do this then..." Or, "If you take away these 3 (good or bad, depending on the argument) performances from this player, then his numbers aren't that (good/bad)!" Bucky did play Oregon at "home," and then won 2 games after that on a neutral court, and went to a Final Four. And this year they return everyone but one of their many 3 point shooters. They're a dang good team and we frankly just won't be that good.
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I don't think I said that? Unless I said his 41 and 16 won the Connecticut game on the defensive end of the court? I'm not sure what you're getting at...
I didn't see the relevance in stating that Novak is 3 inches taller than any MU player against UW this year.
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Nope, especially not in the Bradley Center. Professional athletes may not be rattled in a hostile environment but college kids definitely are and safe to say that college players are a lot more comfortable at home ergo they play better.
Let's not forget a little Big East game against UCONN in 2005 when Novak made it rain and we blew the #2 ranked Huskies at the time out of the water to the tune of a 15-point victory, hanging 94 on'em in the process.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260030269)
unfortunately the Bradley Center is NOT usually a hostile environment for WI, maybe some of you getting extra tix are distributing/scalping them too loosely?
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They're a dang good team and we frankly just won't be that good.
So just to be clear, how do your "ifs" play out that lead to your assessment that "we frankly just won't be that good"?
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So just to be clear, how do your "ifs" play out that lead to your assessment that "we frankly just won't be that good"?
I don't see Fischer being a savior (he'll be okay, but considering he's our only guy over 6'7" okay isn't going to be good enough). I don't see JJJ being a savior (he'll be okay, but he's not going to suddenly score even 15 ppg this season, and we kind of need that guy on this team. Carlino will score a lot but he'll also shoot a lot. We'll be pesky on the defensive end but we'll struggle to score the ball. We struggled to score last year and we had Jamil, Davante, and Todd to do that. This year we lost them and added Carlino (in terms of players who can score...obviously we lost more and added more). That's not a net positive if you ask me. We will not score enough to win a lot of basketball games (against non-cupcakes).
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I don't see Fischer being a savior (he'll be okay, but considering he's our only guy over 6'7" okay isn't going to be good enough). I don't see JJJ being a savior (he'll be okay, but he's not going to suddenly score even 15 ppg this season, and we kind of need that guy on this team. Carlino will score a lot but he'll also shoot a lot. We'll be pesky on the defensive end but we'll struggle to score the ball. We struggled to score last year and we had Jamil, Davante, and Todd to do that. This year we lost them and added Carlino (in terms of players who can score...obviously we lost more and added more). That's not a net positive if you ask me. We will not score enough to win a lot of basketball games (against non-cupcakes).
Really, the only reason people feel good about this team is because of potential. Potential that has yet to be proven. Whether its Duane, JJJ or Deonte, we are expecting them to live up to their billing. Not to mention the idea that Wojo is going to push magic buttons to get them there.
Now all that may happen. Perhaps none of it does. My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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I don't see Fischer being a savior (he'll be okay, but considering he's our only guy over 6'7" okay isn't going to be good enough). I don't see JJJ being a savior (he'll be okay, but he's not going to suddenly score even 15 ppg this season, and we kind of need that guy on this team. Carlino will score a lot but he'll also shoot a lot. We'll be pesky on the defensive end but we'll struggle to score the ball. We struggled to score last year and we had Jamil, Davante, and Todd to do that. This year we lost them and added Carlino (in terms of players who can score...obviously we lost more and added more). That's not a net positive if you ask me. We will not score enough to win a lot of basketball games (against non-cupcakes).
Fair enough. Appreciate the explanation.
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Really, the only reason people feel good about this team is because of potential. Potential that has yet to be proven. Whether its Duane, JJJ or Deonte, we are expecting them to live up to their billing. Not to mention the idea that Wojo is going to push magic buttons to get them there.
Now all that may happen. Perhaps none of it does. My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Completely agree. It's just fun to think about this team and then realize that you've forgot to include one or two players. So I'm thinking about Duane, JJJ, and Deonte...then remember Taylor, Carlino, and Fischer (second semester). And then maybe Cohen pops into my head. This year is a bit of an anomaly when you consider just how many questions marks there are and that if only a few of them turn out well, we'll be competitive. It'd be better to have a few more birds in the hand, but no one can dispute that it will be entertaining to see how it all plays out.
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Sounds like Chicos trying to diminish Bert's accomplishments. The problem is, Wisconsin did play a home game against Oregon last March.
Not at all. They beat Baylor (who steamrolled a similar team in Creighton) and beat a very good Arizona team. Because of that run, people forget that they were inconsistent at times last season, and lost some games they shouldn't have. With the the same team they have coming back.
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Wisconsin is a preseason top 5 team.
We will be lucky to be a preseason top 100 team.
Hard not to expect this one to be a loss. However, I will continue to hope and proclaim that will beat those nasty, stanky vermin that call themselves Vadgers. Crazier things have happened...but I know this one is probably going to be ugly
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Once STjr and Juan pick up their second fouls with 9 minutes to go in the first half, we can throw Cohen, Deonte, and JJJ on them. After THEY get in foul trouble, we can go with Dawson, Carlino, Duane and Derrick. I am sure they are quaking in their boots. I just hope it isn't embarrassing.
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Badgers will probably be starting:
Jackson
Gasser
Dekker
Hayes
Kaminsky
I would counter with
Jackson - Derrick
Gasser - Carlino/JJJ
Dekker - Burton/JJJ
Hayes - Juan
Kaminsky - Steve
Steve might need help when Kaminsky in the post. I think you pull the double team from Dekker's man and pray he's having an off shooting night. Jackson and Gasser are too deadly to leave and Hayes will camp near the post. The best option honestly is for Steve to deny Kaminsky from touching the ball in the post at all.
I have one disagreement. I think Kaminsky is most dangerous on the perimeter, so I would use Juan on him to chase him around the perimeter. If Kaminsky goes inside to post Juan up, its much easier to get someone in the paint to double him then it is to double him on the perimeter. Body wise Steve is also probably needed to handle Hayes inside. Anyone else on the team would be abused by Hayes' girth, including Juan.
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So much optimism...I dont think we stand a chance. Badgers too good this year unfortunately. MU still rebuilding.
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I have one disagreement. I think Kaminsky is most dangerous on the perimeter, so I would use Juan on him to chase him around the perimeter. If Kaminsky goes inside to post Juan up, its much easier to get someone in the paint to double him then it is to double him on the perimeter. Body wise Steve is also probably needed to handle Hayes inside. Anyone else on the team would be abused by Hayes' girth, including Juan.
Disagreed. Watching Kaminsky annoyed the heck out of me down on the blocks. I'd rather he sit out on the perimeter, and I think Steve is athletic enough to guard him out there. I think Burton plays big enough to guard Hayes in the post, as Hayes is more of a below the rim post player. Burton loves banging with those guys.
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So based on this thread unless dekker and kaminsky and Hayes all year their acls we don't have a prayer of keeping this game within even double digits? Ok good to know
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Triple team.
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So based on this thread unless dekker and kaminsky and Hayes all year their acls we don't have a prayer of keeping this game within even double digits? Ok good to know
So are you volunteering to pull a Tonya Harding?
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Badgers will probably be starting:
Jackson
Gasser
Dekker
Hayes
Kaminsky
I would counter with
Jackson - Derrick
Gasser - Carlino/JJJ
Dekker - Burton/JJJ
Hayes - Juan
Kaminsky - Steve
Steve might need help when Kaminsky in the post. I think you pull the double team from Dekker's man and pray he's having an off shooting night. Jackson and Gasser are too deadly to leave and Hayes will camp near the post. The best option honestly is for Steve to deny Kaminsky from touching the ball in the post at all.
Your counter line up ensures our ass getting kicked. No offense.
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Your counter line up ensures our ass getting kicked. No offense.
Carlino and Burton were fantastic offensive players last season. Steve showed a lot of offensive promise. And I am hoping that Juan has finally realized his potential.
Derrick is still our best defender. I think you want him on the court. Paired with Carlino instead of Jake, I think he could be much more effective.
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So are you volunteering to pull a Tonya Harding?
I mean I'm not guaranteeing anything but I do have a very particular set of skills...
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I forgot. Did we suddenly schedule to play these guys?
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140212023417/villains/images/7/76/Monstars.jpg)
Psssh, they're 0-1 and all hype.
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Juan.
Absolutely. JJJ has no chance at all - giving up around 5 inches and who knows how many pounds.
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Start a walk-on. Have him "lose" the ball at Kaminski's knees, and when he bends over to pick it up.... BAM! Elbow to the temple.
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Your counter line up ensures our ass getting kicked. No offense.
So then what do you propose as the counter line up?
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Call me an optimist or an idiot, but I think MU keeps it within 4 points. Anyone care to wager?
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Call me an optimist or an idiot, but I think MU keeps it within 4 points. Anyone care to wager?
What do you want to wager? I give you two beers to one.
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Call me an optimist or an idiot, but I think MU keeps it within 4 points. Anyone care to wager?
I'd accept the wager -- and even give you 8 points -- but I NEVER put myself in a position to root against Marquette. When I've been in Vegas, even when we sucked under Dukiet, I wouldn't bet against us.
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Sounds like Chicos trying to diminish Bert's accomplishments. The problem is, Wisconsin did play a home game against Oregon last March. Those are the lamest arguments out there. "If this team didn't do this then..." Or, "If you take away these 3 (good or bad, depending on the argument) performances from this player, then his numbers aren't that (good/bad)!" Bucky did play Oregon at "home," and then won 2 games after that on a neutral court, and went to a Final Four. And this year they return everyone but one of their many 3 point shooters. They're a dang good team and we frankly just won't be that good.
Thank you--a voice of reason.
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I think this will be the first real test of Wojo from a game strategy perspective. I believe there are ways to beat Bo's system, and that one must beat the system, not any specific player or players, when playing against his teams.
In years past, the way to beat Bo was to run. Last year's UW team could run with anyone, but you could tell Bo only let it happen reluctantly.
What would I do? I'd put JJJ on Kaminsky (backed up by Juan) and would run a full court press with a half court trap and force as many turnovers as possible by going for every steal and getting in the passing lanes. I'd try to turn the whole game into Chaos so they get their (deadly) offense set up on less than half of possessions.
I'm sure Wojo will come up with something even better.
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So then what do you propose as the counter line up?
Guys who can score. We already know that Juan and Derrick can't, and to a lesser extent Steve. That line-up would be offensively challenged. If you get 16-20 points from those 3, you would be lucky.
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I think this will be the first real test of Wojo from a game strategy perspective. I believe there are ways to beat Bo's system, and that one must beat the system, not any specific player or players, when playing against his teams.
In years past, the way to beat Bo was to run. Last year's UW team could run with anyone, but you could tell Bo only let it happen reluctantly.
What would I do? I'd put JJJ on Kaminsky (backed up by Juan) and would run a full court press with a half court trap and force as many turnovers as possible by going for every steal and getting in the passing lanes. I'd try to turn the whole game into Chaos so they get their (deadly) offense set up on less than half of possessions.
I'm sure Wojo will come up with something even better.
I agree in principle with what you are saying. If you are more athletic, f with them. I don't think it works this year because (A) MU has only 9 scholarship players, (B) Wiscy IS athletic, (C) their athleticism is disciplined, (D) I am not assuming Wojo has superpowers.
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When looking at the schedule I'm marking this game a loss. That said I don't think it'll be a blowout or an embarrassment as some of you have mentioned. Everyone worries that Steve will get in foul trouble, what happens if Kaminsky gets in foul trouble? I assume we'll be attacking the rim and that can lead to some fouls on that goon. If he has to sit for a period of time that would be huge. Also, you guys are saying if Dekker goes off we're done. Well if we're hitting our 3s then I like our chances a lot. This is a two way street and I don't see a reason to automatically assume the worst. Either way I see it being a close game and having home court could be a key factor. We'll also be battle tested after playing in the Orlando classic. It's not like this will be our first game, ala Ohio St last year (Grambling St. doesn't count).
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When looking at the schedule I'm marking this game a loss. That said I don't think it'll be a blowout or an embarrassment as some of you have mentioned. Everyone worries that Steve will get in foul trouble, what happens if Kaminsky gets in foul trouble? I assume we'll be attacking the rim and that can lead to some fouls on that goon. If he has to sit for a period of time that would be huge. Also, you guys are saying if Dekker goes off we're done. Well if we're hitting our 3s then I like our chances a lot. This is a two way street and I don't see a reason to automatically assume the worst. Either way I see it being a close game and having home court could be a key factor. We'll also be battle tested after playing in the Orlando classic. It's not like this will be our first game, ala Ohio St last year (Grambling St. doesn't count).
Well yeah. I mean really that might be our only real hope here.
But it's not as though this group of players have shown they can consistently do this yet.
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Probably gotta play like our hair's on fire, hey?
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11710007/wisconsin-unanimously-picked-win-big-ten
I think this is the first time Bo Ryan has ever managed this.
And to no one's surprise, the Badger Troll Myron Medcalf is all over this one.
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When looking at the schedule I'm marking this game a loss. That said I don't think it'll be a blowout or an embarrassment as some of you have mentioned. Everyone worries that Steve will get in foul trouble, what happens if Kaminsky gets in foul trouble? I assume we'll be attacking the rim and that can lead to some fouls on that goon. If he has to sit for a period of time that would be huge. Also, you guys are saying if Dekker goes off we're done. Well if we're hitting our 3s then I like our chances a lot. This is a two way street and I don't see a reason to automatically assume the worst. Either way I see it being a close game and having home court could be a key factor. We'll also be battle tested after playing in the Orlando classic. It's not like this will be our first game, ala Ohio St last year (Grambling St. doesn't count).
Wisconsin just has to play its game -- or something resembling it -- to beat us handily. We need a whole lot of "ifs" to even have a chance.
But I do like your optimism, even if I am having trouble finding that inside myself for this game.
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All right, here's the secret to beating Wisconsin. Teams that figure this out ocassionally beat the Red Rodent. Teams that don't lose.
The Rodent's coach is very good. He takes talented, smart players and disciplines them. You don't often see the rodent playing out of control. Just like you didn't see our teams often playing out of control when St. Al was head coach. Instead, the Red Rodent frustrates his opponent until they go mad and often lose it.
If you want to beat the rodent, you make him play your game. You get him out of sync, usually with speed, turnovers and threes. You make him run until he is falling over and you substitute freely because you have to. In other words, you throw the kitchen sink at the rodent. We win when we make the rodent play Marquette ball and get the rodent behind.
Can we do this in December? I don't know. But I am not writing us off just yet.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11710007/wisconsin-unanimously-picked-win-big-ten
I think this is the first time Bo Ryan has ever managed this.
And to no one's surprise, the Badger Troll Myron Medcalf is all over this one.
As we learned last year, there is no better time to worry than when your picked to take first place.
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Give Bo a taste of his own medicine. He wants to slow the game down, let's slow it down. Make a substitution at every whistle. Ask for clarification from the officials on every close call. Ask for a "2 or 3" replay after every 3pt shot. Turn it into a 3-1/2 hour game.
Just like filling a balloon with too much air... eventually, Bo is going to pop.
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Probably gotta play like our hair's on fire, hey?
Shoulda brought Malek in...
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Shoulda brought Malek in...
nice
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This could be a game where Duane really shines. UW had a hellish time keeping quicker PGs out of the lane last season. All it usually took was a high ball screen. Yogi went nuts on them in Bloomington, and they didn't run much other than that in the second half.
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Consensus this year has to be Rodents. We know what Bo has. We have no idea what Wojo has, particularly this early in his first year.
Rodent / Marquette game often goes opposite of consensus.
Go Warriors.
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All right, here's the secret to beating Wisconsin. Teams that figure this out ocassionally beat the Red Rodent. Teams that don't lose.
The Rodent's coach is very good. He takes talented, smart players and disciplines them. You don't often see the rodent playing out of control. Just like you didn't see our teams often playing out of control when St. Al was head coach. Instead, the Red Rodent frustrates his opponent until they go mad and often lose it.
If you want to beat the rodent, you make him play your game. You get him out of sync, usually with speed, turnovers and threes. You make him run until he is falling over and you substitute freely because you have to. In other words, you throw the kitchen sink at the rodent. We win when we make the rodent play Marquette ball and get the rodent behind.
Can we do this in December? I don't know. But I am not writing us off just yet.
First, good points, but the only way to win is to turn them over early, as they will control the boards, and like you said make it a track meet. The problem is that UW gets great coaching on
the defensive end and it is hard to beat them in a half court game. I really believe if Wisconsin is going to win the NCAA it is this year, and Bo's last chance, talent and experience are there.
I do not care who he brings in the following year but he has 5 seasoned players who are in their last year, plus 2 really good sophs, I think Al usually went 7 deep, this is there chance. Mu will compete better the following year with Ellenson and experience.
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Not sure how Badger fans, and the Badger board specifically, are going to be able to function this year without screaming every week about how disrespected they are in the media.
Also, I know potential is everything in the NBA, but I still can't figure how Dekker is still projected as a lottery pick. He's now a Junior, so he's past the "raw, untapped talent" level where people like Noah Vonleh or Alex Lens would fall in, but yet I can't recall him dominating or taking over games like you would expect an older lottery pick to. Not saying he's a bad player, of course we'd love to have him, but I'm not sold on him being one of those lottery pick studs. Hell, I still think he's a good distance away from Gordon Hayward when he declared.
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This could be a game where Duane really shines. UW had a hellish time keeping quicker PGs out of the lane last season. All it usually took was a high ball screen. Yogi went nuts on them in Bloomington, and they didn't run much other than that in the second half.
Ooooooohhh like the sound of that. Pretty sure Henry said that Wojo sold him on high ball screen pro-style offense. Could work wonders against UW with this guard-heavy roster this year. Holding out hope!
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Consensus this year has to be Rodents. We know what Bo has. We have no idea what Wojo has, particularly this early in his first year.
Rodent / Marquette game often goes opposite of consensus.
Go Warriors.
It also completes the two year cycle. Recently it has been MU winning 2, UW winning 2, MU winning 2, and this would make UW winning 2. 2015 & 2016 would be MU's cycle. It pretty much follows which team has the most experience.
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Not sure how Badger fans, and the Badger board specifically, are going to be able to function this year without screaming every week about how disrespected they are in the media.
Also, I know potential is everything in the NBA, but I still can't figure how Dekker is still projected as a lottery pick. He's now a Junior, so he's past the "raw, untapped talent" level where people like Noah Vonleh or Alex Lens would fall in, but yet I can't recall him dominating or taking over games like you would expect an older lottery pick to. Not saying he's a bad player, of course we'd love to have him, but I'm not sold on him being one of those lottery pick studs. Hell, I still think he's a good distance away from Gordon Hayward when he declared.
Every year kids usually get better, hope Juan and Derrick get better, but Sam was a top player at Lebrons camp and it sounds like he has gotten taller and stronger. We will see what that
means in the upcoming year, not sure if his stats will be better as the whole team is really good and Frank had coming out party the last month of the season. If you look at the year, this
is one of the years that I can really say I do not even no who the top players in the country are, in the past it was simple, but lately you need to buy a magazine to see who came back and
who is new. You go to draft express, the top players are freshman in the top of the draft, drafted on potential. Sam has a chance to be drafted in the Top 10.
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I'd accept the wager -- and even give you 8 points -- but I NEVER put myself in a position to root against Marquette. When I've been in Vegas, even when we sucked under Dukiet, I wouldn't bet against us.
You and Bilsu are locked in. I have MU +4. I'll be sure to send you my address after the game so we can square up on those bets.
Winner gets a case of "Beer 30"
Deal?
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If Marquette wins the game against UW - I'll be beyond shocked..and I'm fairly bullish on this MU team comparatively speaking to many of our fans. Think we can win 20 games this year...but UW won't be one of them. I'd guess UW by 10-14 points...which is very lopsided in this rivalry. We keep it under 10..that will bode well for the team moving forward. A moral victory. As much as I hate to say it, I see UW as a legit National Title Contender...basically a lock for the Elite 8 minimum....unless for some reason huge expectations for Bo's team cause it to unravel..
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I see UW as a legit National Title Contender...basically a lock for the Elite 8 minimum....
We can always hope for a replay of 1978.
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If Marquette wins the game against UW - I'll be beyond shocked..and I'm fairly bullish on this MU team comparatively speaking to many of our fans. Think we can win 20 games this year...but UW won't be one of them. I'd guess UW by 10-14 points...which is very lopsided in this rivalry. We keep it under 10..that will bode well for the team moving forward. A moral victory. As much as I hate to say it, I see UW as a legit National Title Contender...basically a lock for the Elite 8 minimum....unless for some reason huge expectations for Bo's team cause it to unravel..
I mean I agree they're a legit national title threat but remember the NCAA tournament is all about seeding not to mention there's been a huge increase in title contenders getting knocked off by Cinderella teams. Hoping that that's what happens to them.
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I mean I agree they're a legit national title threat but remember the NCAA tournament is all about seeding not to mention there's been a huge increase in title contenders getting knocked off by Cinderella teams. Hoping that that's what happens to them.
True...yet don't see UW not getting a high seed 1 or 2...and Bo is too good of coach, with too much returning experience on that team to likely fall victim to a Cinderella but of course we can always hope...
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You and Bilsu are locked in. I have MU +4. I'll be sure to send you my address after the game so we can square up on those bets.
Winner gets a case of "Beer 30"
Deal?
I'd like some of that action. I have UW -4. $20? Not familiar with case of "beer 30"---is that a 30 pack?
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True...yet don't see UW not getting a high seed 1 or 2...and Bo is too good of coach, with too much returning experience on that team to likely fall victim to a Cinderella but of course we can always hope...
Ners, You've looked at Bo's NCAA Tourney record, right.
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Ners, You've looked at Bo's NCAA Tourney record, right.
I'm aware he generally struggled to beat higher seeded teams...haven't reviewed it that closely though....yet don't think he's ever been a 1 or 2 seed and not performed well? And this team is much more athletic than most of his teams...and Kaminsky is a freaking stud. Hayes will be much improved. Dekker too. And Koening. Yikes.
Whatever the case with history - I just think UW will be one of the absolute best teams in the country this season. Actually put $400 on them to win National Championship at 14:1 a few months back...
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Ners, You've looked at Bo's NCAA Tourney record, right.
If you include his d3 record it's pretty impressive
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I'm aware he generally struggled to beat higher seeded teams...haven't reviewed it that closely though....yet don't think he's ever been a 1 or 2 seed and not performed well? And this team is much more athletic than most of his teams...and Kaminsky is a freaking stud. Hayes will be much improved. Dekker too. And Koening. Yikes.
Whatever the case with history - I just think UW will be one of the absolute best teams in the country this season. Actually put $400 on them to win National Championship at 14:1 a few months back...
If you want to crown em then crown em, but the Badgers are who we thought they are. And we let em off the hook.
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You and Bilsu are locked in. I have MU +4. I'll be sure to send you my address after the game so we can square up on those bets.
Winner gets a case of "Beer 30"
Deal?
Nope. I already told you I never bet against Marquette.
Just because I doubt we'll win this game doesn't mean I want to bet against us.
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I'm aware he generally struggled to beat higher seeded teams...haven't reviewed it that closely though....yet don't think he's ever been a 1 or 2 seed and not performed well? And this team is much more athletic than most of his teams...and Kaminsky is a freaking stud. Hayes will be much improved. Dekker too. And Koening. Yikes.
The 2007 UNLV team called...
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Probably gotta play like our hair's on fire, hey?
We're playing in Manhattan?
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I believe prior to beating Arizona last year in the Elite 8, that Bo only beat a higher seed once...back in 2009 when they were a 12 and beat Florida State as a five.
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If you include his d3 record it's pretty impressive
You did not go there....did you?
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If you include his d3 record it's pretty impressive
I didn't know Bo used to coach hockey. I chalk those victories up to Adam Banks, Goldberg and Charlie Conway more than Bo.
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I'm aware he generally struggled to beat higher seeded teams...haven't reviewed it that closely though....yet don't think he's ever been a 1 or 2 seed and not performed well? And this team is much more athletic than most of his teams...and Kaminsky is a freaking stud. Hayes will be much improved. Dekker too. And Koening. Yikes.
Whatever the case with history - I just think UW will be one of the absolute best teams in the country this season. Actually put $400 on them to win National Championship at 14:1 a few months back...
Look at it in depth. You may be surprised how awful it is since he's been there.
There were a couple of years Rodent were howling.
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You did not go there....did you?
Hey man I hate Bo as much as the next guy but his UW-PL record was crazy good there's no denying that.
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Not sure how Badger fans, and the Badger board specifically, are going to be able to function this year without screaming every week about how disrespected they are in the media.
Also, I know potential is everything in the NBA, but I still can't figure how Dekker is still projected as a lottery pick. He's now a Junior, so he's past the "raw, untapped talent" level where people like Noah Vonleh or Alex Lens would fall in, but yet I can't recall him dominating or taking over games like you would expect an older lottery pick to. Not saying he's a bad player, of course we'd love to have him, but I'm not sold on him being one of those lottery pick studs. Hell, I still think he's a good distance away from Gordon Hayward when he declared.
It's called coaching style. Micheal didn't dominate like he could have in college because of the style and the fact there were lots of good players around him.
Dekker did dominate at times at Lebron's camp this summer.
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You and Bilsu are locked in. I have MU +4. I'll be sure to send you my address after the game so we can square up on those bets.
Winner gets a case of "Beer 30"
Deal?
I am in, but what is a case of "Beer 30"
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I am in, but what is a case of "Beer 30"
Some might call it a "stone."
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I am in, but what is a case of "Beer 30"
(http://dreamsofperfection.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/beer-30.jpg)
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okay
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Let's not forget, UW might be one of the top teams in the country throughout the regular season, but as long as you are 1 of the 68 teams to get into the NCAA Tournament you have as good of a chance to win it all as any of the other 67 teams. Just ask Chicos. The biggest crap shoot in sports is the NCAA Tourney. Might as well just flip a coin for every game and see who ends up last team standing.
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I am in, but what is a case of "Beer 30"
I always thought the correct use of 'beer 30' is:
Hey, what time is it?
It's Beer:30, let's pop 'em open!
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Hey man I hate Bo as much as the next guy but his UW-PL record was crazy good there's no denying that.
You cannot compare them. Does Coach K get to add his D3 wins to his D1 wins? Bobby Knight?
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You cannot compare them. Does Coach K get to add his D3 wins to his D1 wins? Bobby Knight?
Neither one of them coached in d3.
Regardless, his d3 resume is impressive. As is his d1 resume. They are very different types of programs though.
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You cannot compare them. Does Coach K get to add his D3 wins to his D1 wins? Bobby Knight?
Seeing as neither of them coached D3 I don't think it'd make a difference. But the statement was whether Bo was good in the tournament. Well why when he was playing with D3 talent against D3 talent does that not count? It's not like he was using D1 talent. I did not say it had any reflection on his D1 tournament record but I said if you include the D3 years it's quite impressive. 6/13 going to the second weekend in this day and age isn't bad. When you include he won 4/9 D3 championships (won't mention D3 advancing past first weekend) it's impressive.
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Neither one of them coached in d3.
Regardless, his d3 resume is impressive. As is his d1 resume. They are very different types of programs though.
I know that K and Knight never coached D3. My point is D1 is D1. Cannot come close to being compared. His D3 record stands alone, as does his D1 record.
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Seeing as neither of them coached D3 I don't think it'd make a difference. But the statement was whether Bo was good in the tournament. Well why when he was playing with D3 talent against D3 talent does that not count? It's not like he was using D1 talent. I did not say it had any reflection on his D1 tournament record but I said if you include the D3 years it's quite impressive. 6/13 going to the second weekend in this day and age isn't bad. When you include he won 4/9 D3 championships (won't mention D3 advancing past first weekend) it's impressive.
Not sure why Bo's NCAA (D1) record of underachievement is universally minimized. Bo's record of performance against seeding is horrid. D3 sports become dominated by 1 school for years at a time. Platteville for years in basketball, Whitewater for years in football. Before Whitewater, Mount Union dominated. It is not unusual.
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Not sure why Bo's NCAA (D1) record of underachievement is universally minimized. Bo's record of performance against seeding is horrid. D3 sports become dominated by 1 school for years at a time. Platteville for years in basketball, Whitewater for years in football. Before Whitewater, Mount Union dominated. It is not unusual.
So that means 4 championships in that time isn't impressive? And during work today I'll decide how hard I wanna go on this argument. But as of now expect me to do the actual research on his seeding record when I get home around 8 central.
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Not sure why Bo's NCAA (D1) record of underachievement is universally minimized. Bo's record of performance against seeding is horrid. D3 sports become dominated by 1 school for years at a time. Platteville for years in basketball, Whitewater for years in football. Before Whitewater, Mount Union dominated. It is not unusual.
That just isnt true. Bo's team have actually done well compared to where they are seeded but they have lost to teams seeded worse than them who upset other teams earlier. They have under performed their seed 3 times and over performed their seed 4 times and 6 times they have finished where they were seeded.
The argument has been made about Bo's teams losing to teams that are worse seeds which has definitely happened but Bo's teams have actually outperformed their actual seed by a slim margin
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Not sure why Bo's NCAA (D1) record of underachievement is universally minimized. Bo's record of performance against seeding is horrid. D3 sports become dominated by 1 school for years at a time. Platteville for years in basketball, Whitewater for years in football. Before Whitewater, Mount Union dominated. It is not unusual.
If you go back to 1975, the first time NCAA Division 3 was what it essentially is now, 22 D3 schools have won the national championship. Over the same timeframe, 20 schools have won the D1 championship.
So that theory isn't accurate.
It really isn't all that different in many ways. You recruit, build a team, practice, coach in games, deal with boosters, etc. The basics of the job are in many ways the same. They are different in scale and how much a coach is under the microscope, etc.
D1 guys have to deal with things that D3 coaches don't. Handlers, shoe companies, etc. D3 coaches have to teach classes, or work somewhere else. (I doubt there are any full time D3 coaches.)
It would be interesting to hear what Ryan would say about the differences. Or John Beilein.
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So that means 4 championships in that time isn't impressive? And during work today I'll decide how hard I wanna go on this argument. But as of now expect me to do the actual research on his seeding record when I get home around 8 central.
I am not worried about your research on Bo's performance against seed. It is unimpressive compared to the coach love he receives. As much as Vadger fans love him, the badger boards were on fire after a couple of his many NCAA underperformances. I believe his first year at UW Madison was 2002.
I did not mean that his D3 record is unimpressive. I meant that you cannot compare D1 to D3 because in D3 it is more common to win multiple championships in close proximity.
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If you go back to 1975, the first time NCAA Division 3 was what it essentially is now, 22 D3 schools have won the national championship. Over the same timeframe, 20 schools have won the D1 championship.
Wow, I am surprised only 20 DI schools won it in that timeframe (and UCLA only twice in that period)
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Coach K has 4(?) NCAA titles. However, in a lot of years when his team did not win the title Duke lost earlier than they were expected to. More than once I picked Duke in the office pool to win it all and they did not make the final four. However, his NCAA tournament winning percentage is amazing.
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Coach K has 4(?) NCAA titles. However, in a lot of years when his team did not win the title Duke lost earlier than they were expected to. More than once I picked Duke in the office pool to win it all and they did not make the final four. However, his NCAA tournament winning percentage is amazing.
Kentucky, Duke, UConn and UNC have 4. Indiana and Louisville have 3. So those six schools account for over half the titles since then.
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That just isnt true. Bo's team have actually done well compared to where they are seeded but they have lost to teams seeded worse than them who upset other teams earlier. They have under performed their seed 3 times and over performed their seed 4 times and 6 times they have finished where they were seeded.
The argument has been made about Bo's teams losing to teams that are worse seeds which has definitely happened but Bo's teams have actually outperformed their actual seed by a slim margin
That takes nothing into account about teams they faced. For example, in 2008, the Badgers were a 3 seed and made it to the Sweet 16. Thus, they "performed to seed" as only 1-2s are expected to progress to the Elite 8. However, they lost to 10th seeded Davidson. Saying that wasn't an underachieving tournament performance because they "weren't expected" to make the Elite 8 is blind to the situation. Same with the 2011 tournament where they lost to lower seeded Butler in the round of 16.
One of his "overperforms" was 2005 where they made the Elite 8 despite not beating a team seeded higher than 10th. If you don't want to fault him for for only "performing to seed" don't praise him when the overperform was winning games they were supposed to. And mind you, slightly outperforming seed isnt very heady stuff for someone we are continually bashed over with "best coach in the country" talk.
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I am not worried about your research on Bo's performance against seed. It is unimpressive compared to the coach love he receives. As much as Vadger fans love him, the badger boards were on fire after a couple of his many NCAA underperformances. I believe his first year at UW Madison was 2002.
I did not mean that his D3 record is unimpressive. I meant that you cannot compare D1 to D3 because in D3 it is more common to win multiple championships in close proximity.
2002: 8 beats 9 loses 1 Maryland (No upset)
2003: 5 beats 12 & 13 loses 1 seed Kentucky that MU beats to go to Final Four but no upset (would've killed for Wisconsin to be the team we beat instead 6pts from happening)
2004: 6 beats 11 loses 3 Pittsburgh. (No upset)
2005: 6 beats 11, 14, 10 loses 1 North Carolina. (No upset)
2006: 9 loses to 8 Arizona. (No upset)
2007: 2 beats 15 loses 7 UNLV. (Upset)
2008: 3 beats 14 & 11 loses 10 Davidson (Upset but keep in mind Stephen Curry is on Davidson)
2009: 12 beats 5 loses 4 Xavier. (UW Upsets)
2010: 4 beat 13 loses 12 Cornell. (Upset)
2011: 4 beats 13 & 5 loses 8 Butler. (Upset but keep in mind Shelvin Mack is on this Butler)
2012: 4 beats 13 & 5 loses 1 Syracuse. (No upset)
2013: 5 loses 12 Mississippi (Upset)
2014: 2 beats 15, 7, 6, 1 loses 8 Kentucky. (UW upsets then gets upset)
I see five upsets. I'd barely call a Curry led Davidson team winning an upset. I'd barely call last year's Kentucky team winning an
Upset same with the Mac led Butler team that took down a 1 Pitt and 2 Florida an upset. But that's a judgement call I guess either way it's not abysmal they don't upset a lot and pretty much do exactly what they're seeded to do.
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But that's a judgement call I guess either way it's not abysmal they don't upset a lot and pretty much do exactly what they're seeded to do.
but now the committee knows they have secret scrimmages too, Bo better not let it get out if they lose a scrimmage, although I guess that a worse seed will lessen his under-performances
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That takes nothing into account about teams they faced. For example, in 2008, the Badgers were a 3 seed and made it to the Sweet 16. Thus, they "performed to seed" as only 1-2s are expected to progress to the Elite 8. However, they lost to 10th seeded Davidson. Saying that wasn't an underachieving tournament performance because they "weren't expected" to make the Elite 8 is blind to the situation. Same with the 2011 tournament where they lost to lower seeded Butler in the round of 16.
One of his "overperforms" was 2005 where they made the Elite 8 despite not beating a team seeded higher than 10th. If you don't want to fault him for for only "performing to seed" don't praise him when the overperform was winning games they were supposed to. And mind you, slightly outperforming seed isnt very heady stuff for someone we are continually bashed over with "best coach in the country" talk.
I wasnt praising him for over performing. I actually said the argument can be made that Bo's teams have struggled beating higher seeds in the tournament. I wouldnt argue that. I just pointed out that Bo's teams have actually performed quite well when it comes to how they are seeded.
It is just odd to me when someone uses Davidson and Butler to show "low seeds" Bo should have beaten. One team made the NCAA championship game. The other team had Steph Curry and lost by 2 to eventual champion Kansas.
I am making zero comments about Bo being the best coach in the country. I do think he is in the top 10 or so but I wouldnt say he is the best. It is odd how hard it is for some Marquette fans to recognize Bo is a very good coach.
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It is odd how hard it is for some Marquette fans to recognize Bo is a very good coach.
Why does that surprise you? There's also plenty of Wisconsin fans who do everything they can to tear down Marquette. Every team in the world has fans that will always try to underplay their rivals accomplishments. That's how the average fan is, it's not odd at all.
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Why on a Marquette Basketball board are we even arguing or talking about UW coach's record and abilities? He is a good coach who is a douche bag. Makes you wonder about how much of a good coach he is. If you are a Warrior, who the hell cares about Bo Ryan?
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Why on a Marquette Basketball board are we even arguing or talking about UW coach's record and abilities? He is a good coach who is a douche bag. Makes you wonder about how much of a good coach he is. If you are a Warrior, who the hell cares about Bo Ryan?
Because real warriors respect their enemies. He's a good coach and while I'll hate him to my grave I will not diminish someone's accomplishments particularly because that's exactly what a badger fan would do to us.
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Because real warriors respect their enemies. He's a good coach and while I'll hate him to my grave I will not diminish someone's accomplishments particularly because that's exactly what a badger fan would do to us.
But why waste time on an MU board? And there is no respect for a guy that handled the run-off of the Iowa kid so classlessly.
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Not sure how Badger fans, and the Badger board specifically, are going to be able to function this year without screaming every week about how disrespected they are in the media.
Also, I know potential is everything in the NBA, but I still can't figure how Dekker is still projected as a lottery pick. He's now a Junior, so he's past the "raw, untapped talent" level where people like Noah Vonleh or Alex Lens would fall in, but yet I can't recall him dominating or taking over games like you would expect an older lottery pick to. Not saying he's a bad player, of course we'd love to have him, but I'm not sold on him being one of those lottery pick studs. Hell, I still think he's a good distance away from Gordon Hayward when he declared.
The numbers don't seem to back up your sentiment. Keep in mind that Hayward played in the Horizon League. Poor competition.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gordon-hayward-1.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gordon-hayward-1.html)
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Look at it in depth. You may be surprised how awful it is since he's been there.
There were a couple of years Rodent were howling.
I have to ask, is 20-14 that bad?
Since Al McGuire, who has done better at Marquette?
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The numbers don't seem to back up your sentiment. Keep in mind that Hayward played in the Horizon League. Poor competition.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gordon-hayward-1.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/gordon-hayward-1.html)
Agreed. If you look at season stats as a whole, Dekker last year at least matches Heyward's last year and in some cases exceeds it.
Here is the difference. In the six game run in the NCAA tournament, Heyward scored 13, 12, 17, 22, 19, 12 and was clearly the alpha-dog on that team. In the five games UW played last year, Dekker scored 11, 12, 7, 7, 15 and was behind Kaminsky.
But Heyward did that by shooting only 37.3% (25/67). Dekker played a smaller role but was more efficient shooting 44.7% (17/38).
I actually think Dekker's game is a little better than Heyward's.
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I have to ask, is 20-14 that bad?
Since Al McGuire, who has done better at Marquette?
It's 50th on the all time winning percentage list. Some context... Adolph Rupp is 45...Lute Olson is 46...Jim Boeheim is 42...Bobby Knight is 39.
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I have to ask, is 20-14 that bad?
Since Al McGuire, who has done better at Marquette?
Buzz Williams. He was 9-6 (.600) total and 8-4 (.667) with his own players, both better than 20-14 (.588).
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2002: 8 beats 9 loses 1 Maryland (No upset)
2003: 5 beats 12 & 13 loses 1 seed Kentucky that MU beats to go to Final Four but no upset (would've killed for Wisconsin to be the team we beat instead 6pts from happening)
2004: 6 beats 11 loses 3 Pittsburgh. (No upset)
2005: 6 beats 11, 14, 10 loses 1 North Carolina. (No upset)
2006: 9 loses to 8 Arizona. (No upset)
2007: 2 beats 15 loses 7 UNLV. (Upset)
2008: 3 beats 14 & 11 loses 10 Davidson (Upset but keep in mind Stephen Curry is on Davidson)
2009: 12 beats 5 loses 4 Xavier. (UW Upsets)
2010: 4 beat 13 loses 12 Cornell. (Upset)
2011: 4 beats 13 & 5 loses 8 Butler. (Upset but keep in mind Shelvin Mack is on this Butler)
2012: 4 beats 13 & 5 loses 1 Syracuse. (No upset)
2013: 5 loses 12 Mississippi (Upset)
2014: 2 beats 15, 7, 6, 1 loses 8 Kentucky. (UW upsets then gets upset)
I see five upsets. I'd barely call a Curry led Davidson team winning an upset. I'd barely call last year's Kentucky team winning an
Upset same with the Mac led Butler team that took down a 1 Pitt and 2 Florida an upset. But that's a judgement call I guess either way it's not abysmal they don't upset a lot and pretty much do exactly what they're seeded to do.
BB, I would expect a post like this from a Vadger fan. I'll dissect this later.
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Agreed. If you look at season stats as a whole, Dekker last year at least matches Heyward's last year and in some cases exceeds it.
Here is the difference. In the six game run in the NCAA tournament, Heyward scored 13, 12, 17, 22, 19, 12 and was clearly the alpha-dog on that team. In the five games UW played last year, Dekker scored 11, 12, 7, 7, 15 and was behind Kaminsky.
That was kind of my point. Hayward wasn't drafted based on his regular season, it was based on that impressive tourney run. The Horizon league is poor competition to be sure, but Hayward was among the leader in basically every major category in the conference. Dekker was only top 10 in the B10 in rebounds. Again, partially due to better competition and a better team, but still.
Nobody is arguing Dekker is a bad player, like nobody is arguing Bo Ryan isn't a good coach, I just dont think Dekker passes the eye test as a lottery pick yet. He has a great chance to prove me wrong this year on a great team. If he averages 12 and 6 again, with Kaminsky being the lead man, I don't see how he is still considered a lottery pick.
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I have to ask, is 20-14 that bad?
Since Al McGuire, who has done better at Marquette?
This is why we hate you I'm actually here defending your coach's tourny record and yet a badger fan still comes over to call out mu. Meanwhile if it was on the reverse there wouldn't be one badger fan on your board defending any MU coach (even if it was bill chandler who played at UW and was an assistant coach there)
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That was kind of my point. Hayward wasn't drafted based on his regular season, it was based on that impressive tourney run. The Horizon league is poor competition to be sure, but Hayward was among the leader in basically every major category in the conference. Dekker was only top 10 in the B10 in rebounds. Again, partially due to better competition and a better team, but still.
Nobody is arguing Dekker is a bad player, like nobody is arguing Bo Ryan isn't a good coach, I just dont think Dekker passes the eye test as a lottery pick yet. He has a great chance to prove me wrong this year on a great team. If he averages 12 and 6 again, with Kaminsky being the lead man, I don't see how he is still considered a lottery pick.
You snipped a bunch of my post though. NBA scouts aren't going to look at a handful of games and say "that guy is a lottery pick." They are also smart enough to look at those games and see someone who took a lot of shots.
Hayward stood out as a 6'9" forward who can shoot, plays smart, and is generally a good athlete. Dekker isn't as tall and I don't think is as athletic. And that is going to hurt him and those are the main reasons I don't think he is a lottery pick yet. But I think his game is just as good.
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Sad to see all this waste of time and thought process as to playing the Badgers. We have a lot of games to play this season and this sure gives glee to Bucky. In a few years I would love to see a Badger board give so much attention to our great team. That would never happen. Wisconsin fans have lots of teams they obsess over. Lets talk about Nova and other teams in our conference and not a big 14 team.
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Agreed. If you look at season stats as a whole, Dekker last year at least matches Heyward's last year and in some cases exceeds it.
Here is the difference. In the six game run in the NCAA tournament, Heyward scored 13, 12, 17, 22, 19, 12 and was clearly the alpha-dog on that team. In the five games UW played last year, Dekker scored 11, 12, 7, 7, 15 and was behind Kaminsky.
But Heyward did that by shooting only 37.3% (25/67). Dekker played a smaller role but was more efficient shooting 44.7% (17/38).
I actually think Dekker's game is a little better than Heyward's.
Thanks for the unbiased response. To be fair to JEllenson, while watching Hayward at Butler, he always looked impressive. The percentages weren't what I thought they would be before I looked them up. Hayward has turned out to be a really solid pro, he does a nice job of creating his own shot, and he's actually a pretty good athlete.
I love Bo as a coach, but as an earlier posted eluded to, I think Dekker will perform better in a system with more freedom. Jackson is a good point guard, but he isn't a great passer.
As for the UW/MU game, I obviously favor UW. Regardless of who has won in the past, the game is rarely ever a blowout.
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Sad to see all this waste of time and thought process as to playing the Badgers. We have a lot of games to play this season and this sure gives glee to Bucky. In a few years I would love to see a Badger board give so much attention to our great team. That would never happen. Wisconsin fans have lots of teams they obsess over. Lets talk about Nova and other teams in our conference and not a big 14 team.
You are 100% wrong. The Badger board always has threads about Marquette.
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2003: 5 beats 12 & 13 loses 1 seed Kentucky that MU beats to go to Final Four but no upset (would've killed for Wisconsin to be the team we beat instead 6pts from happening)whom MU UPSET as a 3 seed
2007: 2 beats 15 loses 7 UNLV. (Upset) 2 seed losing to a 7.
2008: 3 beats 14 & 11 loses 10 Davidson (Upset but keep in mind Stephen Curry is on Davidson) Davidson is a 10 seed. Bo lost to a 10 seed as a 3 seed.
2009: 12 beats 5 loses 4 Xavier. (UW Upsets) One COULD argue that 12 beating a 5 is barely an upset. 3 of those in 2014.
2010: 4 beat 13 loses 12 Cornell. (Upset) Another Big Bo Flameout
2011: 4 beats 13 & 5 loses 8 Butler. (Upset but keep in mind Shelvin Mack is on this Butler) Shelvin Mack BFD. 8 beating a 4.
2013: 5 loses 12 Mississippi (Upset) Are you finally seeing a pattern?
I see five upsets. I'd barely call a Curry led Davidson team winning an upset. I'd barely call last year's Kentucky team winning an
Upset same with the Mac led Butler team that took down a 1 Pitt and 2 Florida an upset. But that's a judgement call I guess either way it's not abysmal they don't upset a lot and pretty much do exactly what they're seeded to do.
I cleared away all the noise you used to hide Bo's craptacular NCAA record. I am shocked that a Marquette fan would minimize this. Badger fans wish they had this much to shove down our throats.
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I cleared away all the noise you used to hide Bo's craptacular NCAA record. I am shocked that a Marquette fan would minimize this. Badger fans wish they had this much to shove down our throats.
(Palms forehead) some people... Read what you wrote "3 seed upset 1 seed" does that mean that the 5 seed should have upset them? No
12 beat 5. Sure it happens often Does that mean that it's not an upset? I mean 2s are losing to 15s very frequently these past few years is it suddenly not an upset?
Like I said the Davidson and butler teams are up to you but when those teams have upset as many higher teams as they did that year I wouldn't just put that on bo.
You can't just take away all the stuff that doesn't support your side thats not the way the world works. As far as minimalizing his record I don't know why you're trying to. Maybe you'd prefer to have our major rival be at the crap level they were before the late 90s but I prefer to play and beat the best. I also refuse to minimize accomplishments. I'll insult bo for Jared uthoff, for never being a super erupting team in March but I won't say that he's done terribly and anyone with integrity and respect to the enemy wouldn't either. Badger fans minimalize buzz, crean, deane, Oneil, Raymonds and Al all the time perhaps you are just not of a bigger person mindset.
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Buzz Williams. He was 9-6 (.600) total and 8-4 (.667) with his own players, both better than 20-14 (.588).
Nevermind this post.
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You are 100% wrong. The Badger board always has threads about Marquette.
Not about how good we are.
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(Palms forehead) some people... Read what you wrote "3 seed upset 1 seed" does that mean that the 5 seed should have upset them? No
12 beat 5. Sure it happens often Does that mean that it's not an upset? I mean 2s are losing to 15s very frequently these past few years is it suddenly not an upset?
Like I said the Davidson and butler teams are up to you but when those teams have upset as many higher teams as they did that year I wouldn't just put that on bo.
You can't just take away all the stuff that doesn't support your side thats not the way the world works. As far as minimalizing his record I don't know why you're trying to. Maybe you'd prefer to have our major rival be at the crap level they were before the late 90s but I prefer to play and beat the best. I also refuse to minimize accomplishments. I'll insult bo for Jared uthoff, for never being a super erupting team in March but I won't say that he's done terribly and anyone with integrity and respect to the enemy wouldn't either. Badger fans minimalize buzz, crean, deane, Oneil, Raymonds and Al all the time perhaps you are just not of a bigger person mindset.
Whatever.
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Not about how good we are.
That's because Marquette isn't good right now.
If Wisconsin was not predicted to make the NCAA tournament and Marquette was a preseason top 5 team, a thread just like this would be on the Badgers board.
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That's because Marquette isn't good right now.
If Wisconsin was not predicted to make the NCAA tournament and Marquette was a preseason top 5 team, a thread just like this would be on the Badgers board.
I admit I have never looked at a Badger board (who cares) and none of the MU fans I know would bother with it. Could you give me the web site and also something from the past I might be able to see to confirm what you are saying? As a season ticket holder for over 50 years, it always drove me nuts when fans would say " I don't care what happens with our season as long as we beat the Badgers". I bleed blue and gold and a Warrior for ever.
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I admit I have never looked at a Badger board (who cares) and none of the MU fans I know would bother with it. Could you give me the web site and also something from the past I might be able to see to confirm what you are saying? As a season ticket holder for over 50 years, it always drove me nuts when fans would say " I don't care what happens with our season as long as we beat the Badgers". I bleed blue and gold and a Warrior for ever.
Venture around a bit but careful people get swallowed up in this place (suggest you look at threads regarding Levin, Ellenson, buzzcutting, Shaka smart, buzz leaving, crean leaving, sexual assault, Todd mayo, vander blue, Jerone maymon, etc)
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565
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I admit I have never looked at a Badger board (who cares) and none of the MU fans I know would bother with it. Could you give me the web site and also something from the past I might be able to see to confirm what you are saying? As a season ticket holder for over 50 years, it always drove me nuts when fans would say " I don't care what happens with our season as long as we beat the Badgers". I bleed blue and gold and a Warrior for ever.
Also, the buckyville forums. I stop over there and read what they have to say about Marquette once in a while for a cheap laugh, never have posted. Some Wisconsin fans might try and tell you Marquette isn't a rival and it's just another game for them but they are just trying to get under your skin. Every time anything happens to Marquette good or bad they have a strong opinion about it.
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Dekker did something to his ankle today. Sounds like we won't be the only ones on #bootwatch2k14
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Dekker did something to his ankle today. Sounds like we won't be the only ones on #bootwatch2k14
I pray it'll last till our game then he miraculously gets better after making our win look good the rest of the year.
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Dekker did something to his ankle today. Sounds like we won't be the only ones on #bootwatch2k14
Most likely nothing, but even if it was serious, Bucky will still be pretty damn good.