MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChitownSpaceForRent on October 11, 2014, 12:08:36 AM
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Hard to tell since it's only one scrimmage but here are my thoughts. Thought it would be handy just to have one communal thread.
Derrick Wilson: Looked good to he honest. He's gonna get minutes whether you like it or not. Improved his defense even more.
John Dawson: Got the least amount of run. Not going to be an impact player this year.
Matt Carlino: Takes a ton of shots. Really good at driving the lane. His shot was off today but it will fall. Gets inside his own head sometimes.
Luke Fischer: It's gonna be a rough go without him. Good interior defense with some nice post moves. Should be a solid player.
Duane Wilson: Looked pretty awful honestly. A ton of turnovers missed some shots. Settled down when he started driving the lane more.
Steve Taylor: Always takes one too many dribbles in the post. Didn't get fed often but needs to go straight up with it more.
Sandy Cohen: He's a freshman, don't know what else to say. Makes silly mistakes but played alright defense. Not much to talk about on the offensive end.
Wally Ellenson: He's. Lot better then people give him credit for. Good on the defensive end and honestly the best player of the night. Athletic as all hell.
Jajuan Johnson: Shots weren't falling but I liked the fact that he kept shooting. Should be okay with some run. Will be more of a difference maker next year.
Juan Anderson: Most impressed with Juan. Hit some shots and all over the place on the defensive end. WI'll get a ton of minutes at the stretch 4. See him starting until Luke gets back.
Deonte Burton: Didn't show much. Kind of disappointing. Good but so inconsistent. Sky's the limit if he can play more under control.
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Deonte looked to me like he was out there to make highlight plays rather than just playing solid basketball. Which I'm fine with, tonight was nothing more than a showcase for the fans.
Duane Wilson did look bad, but he's going to have a lot of rust to shake off after sitting all last year. He'll be fine, but it's going to take some time.
Juan looked like Juan of old to me. Except he actually hit a three.
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Was next to Steve today on Wells. He is a big dude. Got the bulk to hold his own in the middle.
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You can hardly blame Deonte if his thoughts were elsewhere tonight.
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Could you post some positives of the night too?
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Could you post some positives of the night too?
I included some. To be perfectly honest, there weren't many positives to take away besides Wally, Derrick, Juan and Luke. Wojo said it best at the end of the scrimmage "As you all can see we have a lot of work to do" This team is not very good but I am looking forward to watch them develop. It's hard to get mucb insight after only one scrimmage but they are gonna struggle.
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Hard to tell since it's only one scrimmage but here are my thoughts. Thought it would be handy just to have one communal thread.
Derrick Wilson: Looked good to he honest. He's gonna get minutes whether you like it or not. Improved his defense even more.
John Dawson: Got the least amount of run. Not going to be an impact player this year.
Matt Carlino: Takes a ton of shots. Really good at driving the lane. His shot was off today but it will fall. Gets inside his own head sometimes.
Luke Fischer: It's gonna be a rough go without him. Good interior defense with some nice post moves. Should be a solid player.
Duane Wilson: Looked pretty awful honestly. A ton of turnovers missed some shots. Settled down when he started driving the lane more.
Steve Taylor: Always takes one too many dribbles in the post. Didn't get fed often but needs to go straight up with it more.
Sandy Cohen: He's a freshman, don't know what else to say. Makes silly mistakes but played alright defense. Not much to talk about on the offensive end.
Wally Ellenson: He's. Lot better then people give him credit for. Good on the defensive end and honestly the best player of the night. Athletic as all hell.
Jajuan Johnson: Shots weren't falling but I liked the fact that he kept shooting. Should be okay with some run. Will be more of a difference maker next year.
Juan Anderson: Most impressed with Juan. Hit some shots and all over the place on the defensive end. WI'll get a ton of minutes at the stretch 4. See him starting until Luke gets back.
Deonte Burton: Didn't show much. Kind of disappointing. Good but so inconsistent. Sky's the limit if he can play more under control.
Pretty good analysis in my opinion except for Derrick. He played his usual decent defense, but was still bad on the offensive end. Air balled 2 layups and had another rejected. Also missed his only free throw and 3pt attempt. Did have a nice layup high off the glass that went in. I guess him actually attempting a shot beyond the arc is somewhat encouraging.
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I included some. To be perfectly honest, there weren't many positives to take away besides Wally, Derrick, Juan and Luke. Wojo said it best at the end of the scrimmage "As you all can see we have a lot of work to do" This team is not very good but I am looking forward to watch them develop. It's hard to get mucb insight after only one scrimmage but they are gonna struggle.
I think this is going to be a tough year for those expecting 19 or 20 wins. The sophs need to improve and help is on the way in 2015.
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We talking bout a scrimmage....
Not a game..
But a Scrimmage...
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We talking bout a scrimmage....
Not a game..
But a Scrimmage...
A scrimmage on our practice court!
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A scrimmage on our practice court!
+1
This analysis is a waste of time. I saw a bunch of kids out there screwing around and having fun and we're analyzing it is if were getting ready to go to the NCAA tournament.
Here's all the analysis you need to know ... everybody played and nobody's hurt ... next
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+1
This analysis is a waste of time. I saw a bunch of kids out there screwing around and having fun and we're analyzing it is if were getting ready to go to the NCAA tournament.
Here's all the analysis you need to know ... everybody played and nobody's hurt ... next
Exactly. This is dumb. They've been in real practice for about a week and don't play their first real game in over a month.
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Thanks for being honest. Honestly.
Hard to take anything away from the scrimmage.
STJR is 15 lbs heavier it appears.
Matt Carlino hasn't seen a shot that he doesn't like.
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I was most impressed with Carlino and Fisher. Duane was brutal... Decision making was terrible. On the positive side, he gets in the lane at will. Agree that Carlino is our best player. JJJs shot doesn't look much different. Still an awkward release. He needs to focus on slashing and pull-ups. Another positive is Cohen. Very fluid. Oozes potential.
First scrimmage in a while where my initial impression was: we are not good... Lots of work to do. Hopefully come March we are vastly improved.
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It is a scrimmage. After a practice earlier in the day. And remember, "a team is only as good as its returning players."
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>>Coaches Kieger and Merritt are the only two real dancers in all of MUBB.
>>Only the Southpaws can throw it down with a vengeance.
>>MUAD didn't know what every freshmen learned during orientation: If you are going to have smoke indoors, cover the smoke detectors.
>>MU Men BB way ahead on defense. MU Women BB way ahead on offense.
>>Have heard Coach Wojo's welcome speech numerous times...I may have it memorized. He is on the reach times frequency media schedule with that message.
>>This event is a social event for the students. Too early after only a couple of days of practices to tell anything of judgment. Newcomers all look like they have special talents.
>>Big Luke will make a difference. Will be a rough but fun ride preseason.
>>Event could use some ATVs.
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i get that it was only a scrimmage, but the entire night was pretty poor, even by midnight madness standards. started with the smoke alarms going off when wojo was giving his opening remarks, dunk contest was decent enough and nice that parker came out for wojo...then 20 minutes for a rim to be fixed. finally, the boys scrimmage...and no coaches vs. players 3pt shootout because wojo came out and thanked those who were still there when the scrimmage was over (about 1/3 of the crowd) and was honest when he said, "as you can see we have a lot to work on." this might be a year to play slow, take good shots, and defend the hell out of the ball. obviously you look at this team and wonder about points and interior defense...while it was only midnight madness...i'm more worried now than when i walked into the al at 7pm yesterday.
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At the end of the scrimage Wojo said "As you can see we have a lot of work to do" and then walked off the court. Left me with the impression that he was truly disappointed. With the smoke alarm going off, the broken basket and the cancelled three point shooting contest this had to be the worse madness ever. However, it might of been the best slam dunk contest at midnight madness. I would place it 2nd behind Matthews dunking over his mother.
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At the end of the scrimage Wojo said "As you can see we have a lot of work to do" and then walked off the court. Left me with the impression that he was truly disappointed.
I agree, I think that is telling. He's been Mr. Positive in every way since taking the job, and then to be that abrupt is out of character for him.
Although, there was a lot of playing for the crowd I thought, lots of behind the back, no look passes, etc. I said before these are designed for the fans benefit, but maybe he wanted the guys to play more serious basketball than they did.
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
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The women's scrimage was better than the men's scrimage.
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The women's scrimage was better than the men's scrimage.
Maybe. But that's not why the fans were there.
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It is a scrimmage. After a practice earlier in the day. And remember, "a team is only as good as its returning players."
Common thinking is that that won't be the case in 2015-16. Hopefully not at least.
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Duane Wilson while making mistakes I think has what a good penetrating point guard should be. That is to draw the defenders. Sandy Cohen looked good for a freshmen. Carlino will be a major contributor. Juan I believe will be much improved with confidence. Having a guard like Carlino may give Juan more confidence. Deonte will be a critical foundation to this team regardless of what he did in the scrimmage. Surprised did not see Dawson more on the court especially since I do not see a true shooting guard on the team. Dawson seems like that would be a more natural position for him. Ellenson could be a great spark for the team. Someone who can swat balls out of the air. Unfortunate he will not be able to play this year. Will be interesting to see who the starters will be. Taylor is all muscle. He will need it against the bigs he will be facing.
Deonte, Carlino, Taylor are my definite starters and major minute getters. The other two positions I think are up for grabs. I think for a team to win you always need three scorers on the court at once. When Marquette had DJ, Jerel, Wesley and Lazar you could always have three of the four on the court. When Marquette had JFB, Jae, Vander, DJO, Junior, Davante, etc. again you could always have three scorers on the court. Deonte and Carlino are definitely scorers. Where will Marquette get other additional points?
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I agree with separating the women's madness to a different day. I don't go anymore because it is too drawn out. If I could see the dunk contest, a three point contest and a pumped up scrimmage I would be grateful. Hour and a half and everyone has their fill.
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
Giving the women their own event? There would 50 people there. With this setup the women are introduced and play to a packed AL. Only time during season that this will happen. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Every year people complain about event, but the next year the AL is filled once again.
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Giving the women their own event? There would 50 people there. With this setup the women are introduced and play to a packed AL. Only time during season that this will happen. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Every year people complain about event, but the next year the AL is filled once again.
Next year, there will be a full house and then some as the hype for Henry is thru the roof, with the overall talent looking good, the hype for the whole team probably will need to simmered
just a little. More importantly, will they be able to play together as a team. Freshman star, I doubt the upper classman will like that.
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Giving the women their own event? There would 50 people there. With this setup the women are introduced and play to a packed AL. Only time during season that this will happen. I don't see it changing anytime soon. Every year people complain about event, but the next year the AL is filled once again.
100% correct
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I included some. To be perfectly honest, there weren't many positives to take away besides Wally, Derrick, Juan and Luke. Wojo said it best at the end of the scrimmage "As you all can see we have a lot of work to do" This team is not very good but I am looking forward to watch them develop. It's hard to get mucb insight after only one scrimmage but they are gonna struggle.
Which one is it?
Is it hard to get much insight after one scrimmage? Or did you get so much insight from one scrimmage you've determined they're "gonna struggle"?
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I agree, I think that is telling. He's been Mr. Positive in every way since taking the job, and then to be that abrupt is out of character for him.
Although, there was a lot of playing for the crowd I thought, lots of behind the back, no look passes, etc. I said before these are designed for the fans benefit, but maybe he wanted the guys to play more serious basketball than they did.
I hope it was just playing for the crowd and having a fun time as the play was rather sloppy. But Wojo making that remark is disconcerting. My hope is he realizes that HE has a lot of work to do to get them to play as a team.
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The event itself cannot be used to judge the potential of the team. Yes lots of work to do, and we all know that.
The event tho is Marquette MADNESS. And there is not a ton of Madness flying around. The planners need to orchestrate this event like a pump-up show. That's what it's supposed to be. We need more hoopla - more Madness. More production. And maybe stagger the women and men's play. Maybe intro the women's team and coaches, they do their dance, then intro the men's team and coaches and more integrate the two throughout the night
When the men's concludes now, as we know, many attendees have left. Integrate the men's and women's and then have a Madness ending. Maybe the shirts should be given at the end. Or half your ticket at the end gets you something else. And actually HAVE a end. A video to concude the event or something. Lots of things can be done. Madness should be about . . . Madness - FAN-atics.
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The event itself cannot be used to judge the potential of the team. Yes lots of work to do, and we all know that.
The event tho is Marquette MADNESS. And there is not a ton of Madness flying around. The planners need to orchestrate this event like a pump-up show. That's what it's supposed to be. We need more hoopla - more Madness. More production. And maybe stagger the women and men's play. Maybe intro the women's team and coaches, they do their dance, then intro the men's team and coaches and more integrate the two throughout the night
When the men's concludes now, as we know, many attendees have left. Integrate the men's and women's and then have a Madness ending. Maybe the shirts should be given at the end. Or half your ticket at the end gets you something else. And actually HAVE a end. A video to concude the event or something. Lots of things can be done. Madness should be about . . . Madness - FAN-atics.
Normally I don't call out others spelling and grammar problems but I had no idea what you were trying to say in much of this post. Still drunk from last night?
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Which one is it?
Is it hard to get much insight after one scrimmage? Or did you get so much insight from one scrimmage you've determined they're "gonna struggle"?
Hard to judge individual performances after just one scrimmage but it's pretty obvious that as a team it's gonna be a rough year. I don't think it was as much as a showcase as people think. They were running sets but man was it sloppy.
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Hard to judge individual performances after just one scrimmage but it's pretty obvious that as a team it's gonna be a rough year. I don't think it was as much as a showcase as people think. They were running sets but man was it sloppy.
I think you should be careful about projecting how the season is going to be based on a scrimmage, one week into the practice season, with a new coach. Let's see how they look at Haunted Hoops. Then Wisconsin Lutheran. Then Tennessee-Martin five weeks from now.
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In the words of our immortal QB..........RELAX. ::)
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I think you should be careful about projecting how the season is going to be based on a scrimmage, one week into the practice season, with a new coach. Let's see how they look at Haunted Hoops. Then Wisconsin Lutheran. Then Tennessee-Martin five weeks from now.
Id say we have till OSU even remember our elite 8 year we got bulldozed by Florida before we started jelling
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Id say we have till OSU even remember our elite 8 year we got bulldozed by Florida before we started jelling
Well yeah exactly. People have talked about how this team might take awhile to gel, and now people are freaking out over a pre-season scrimmage.
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Sounds like MM could use a party planner.
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I think you should be careful about projecting how the season is going to be based on a scrimmage, one week into the practice season, with a new coach. Let's see how they look at Haunted Hoops. Then Wisconsin Lutheran. Then Tennessee-Martin five weeks from now.
Agreed, let's wait and see what the Learning Curve looks like for this team after a few game. (Both Players & Coaching Staff)
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
So then even less people will show?
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It is a scrimmage. After a practice earlier in the day. And remember, "a team is only as good as its returning players."
Tell that to Kentucky
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Id say we have till OSU even remember our elite 8 year we got bulldozed by Florida before we started jelling
Yes, but that team road the backs of two players. There is not anyone on this team that is near the talent of Crowder and DJO.
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Yes, but that team road the backs of two players. There is not anyone on this team that is near the talent of Crowder and DJO.
I think lots of players on this team have the talent to be as good, or better than Crowder and DJO. It's a matter of them putting it together, just like it was for those two players.
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Yes, but that team road the backs of two players. There is not anyone on this team that is near the talent of Crowder and DJO.
Crowder & DJO were not on the Elite 8 team.
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
Agreed, my excitement was drained waiting for the guys. However, if the women get there own event nobody would go.
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Pretty good analysis in my opinion except for Derrick. He played his usual decent defense, but was still bad on the offensive end. Air balled 2 layups and had another rejected. Also missed his only free throw and 3pt attempt. Did have a nice layup high off the glass that went in. I guess him actually attempting a shot beyond the arc is somewhat encouraging.
quit frankly, other than when Duane was attempting to just dribble and set the offense(IE waiting for a wing to get open) Duane blew by Derrick at will. At least 5 times I counted where Duane went right past Derrick. Without question Duane is the most explosive driver in the guards group. Derrick did a great job when all Duane was doing was trying to set the offense. He hounded Duane very well and caused some turnovers. I think this is where people say Duane is not a true PG. But when Duane wanted to drive on Derrick he did so whenever he wanted to.
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Yes, but that team road the backs of two players. There is not anyone on this team that is near the talent of Crowder and DJO.
Did you think we made the elite 8 with DJO and Crowder? Or is that just a stupid error on your part?
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
Amen Brother. Amen...
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Until people start attending women's games, they will never remove the women from Marquette Madness.
The women's games here at TAMU are actually more well attended the men's. That's obviously because of the current state of the programs, but it shows that there are people out there who enjoy women's games.
I went to a few dozen women's games when I was a student. I recommend everyone try going to one, they are a lot of fun.
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quit frankly, other than when Duane was attempting to just dribble and set the offense(IE waiting for a wing to get open) Duane blew by Derrick at will. At least 5 times I counted where Duane went right past Derrick. Without question Duane is the most explosive driver in the guards group. Derrick did a great job when all Duane was doing was trying to set the offense. He hounded Duane very well and caused some turnovers. I think this is where people say Duane is not a true PG. But when Duane wanted to drive on Derrick he did so whenever he wanted to.
I agree. I think he played his typical defense, which I feel is very overrated for the most part. He is a solid defender, occasionally plays good/great defense for spurts, but nowhere near the lockdown defender some make him out to be. Due to him being the whipping boy of many, I feel posters trump up his contributions to make them more than what they really are.
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In the words of our immortal QB..........RELAX. ::)
Who's our Aaron Rodgers? Or Nelson, Cobb, Lacy, Matthews, Tranon, or Peppers, for that matter. I sea a couple of Davante Adams's and HaHa Clinton-Dix's, but those guys don't make me relax, they make me excited about the future.
I think lots of players on this team have the talent to be as good, or better than Crowder and DJO. It's a matter of them putting it together, just like it was for those two players.
As good or better than DJO and Crowder?! Wow!
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Who's our Aaron Rodgers? Or Nelson, Cobb, Lacy, Matthews, Tranon, or Peppers, for that matter. I sea a couple of Davante Adams's and HaHa Clinton-Dix's, but those guys don't make me relax, they make me excited about the future.
As good or better than DJO and Crowder?! Wow!
I think Deonte, JJJ, and Duane all have the capability to become just as good as those two. Obviously not there yet, but the other two had JUCO experience before they got here and it served them well. After this season we will have more firm understanding of what we have with these three.
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I think Deonte, JJJ, and Duane all have the capability to become just as good as those two. Obviously not there yet, but the other two had JUCO experience before they got here and it served them well. After this season we will have more firm understanding of what we have with these three.
I can't wait for JJJ to play up to that smirk that he has. BTW, I'm not being critical, I really like his smirk, it gonna be great to see after he drains a three pointer that's a dagger in the other team.
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Next year, there will be a full house and then some as the hype for Henry is thru the roof, with the overall talent looking good, the hype for the whole team probably will need to simmered
just a little. More importantly, will they be able to play together as a team. Freshman star, I doubt the upper classman will like that.
From what I've heard about Henry's personality (and the personalities on others on MU), I don't think that his production is going to cause resentment. I actually think that everyone will be stocked to have him on their side.
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I'll say it again. They really, really need to give the women their own event. By the time the guys come out, the crowd is already restless. By the time the scrimmage is over, many have already left.
Maybe move the women to Saturday or Sunday afternoon (depending on the Packers schedule).
So then even less people will show?
I think that the point wasn't that not enough people show up, it's that not enough people stay for the end of the men's scrimmage..
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Let's keep in mind that this team is very young. Of the six underclassman only Deonte got what I would consider meaningful playing time at the D1 level. Luke played only one semester as a freshman, JJJ and Dawson played some but not that much. Even Steve I would consider a second semester soph as he missed or did not play most of last season. The three seniors though they have the experience are not the most talented. The task that Wojo has is to get them to play disciplined ball as a team. They are going to make their mistakes this season lets hope they learn from them.
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Did you think we made the elite 8 with DJO and Crowder? Or is that just a stupid error on your part?
I did not realize you were talking about the elite 8 team. However, the DJO/Crowder team was a better team than the elite 8 even though it only got to sweet 16. The elite 8 team should not of got past the first round. Of course last year Uconn should of not got past the first round.
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More importantly, will they be able to play together as a team. Freshman star, I doubt the upper classman will like that.
The team did not make the NCAA's last year and I do not see how it can make it this year. By next year the whole team will see Henry as their savior.
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I think lots of players on this team have the talent to be as good, or better than Crowder and DJO. It's a matter of them putting it together, just like it was for those two players.
No one on this current team will be better than Crowder (Big East Player of the Year after just two years mind you), of that I'm sure. Ellenson next year has the potential clearly, though.
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From what I've heard about Henry's personality (and the personalities on others on MU), I don't think that his production is going to cause resentment. I actually think that everyone will be stocked to have him on their side.
As long as players feel they are being treated fairly and those with the playing time deserve to out there, they aren't going to care how much Henry plays.
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I know this is a little late but my friend who is a trainer told me Wojo was screaming at the guys after the scrimmage. Even called it a disgrace...
Honestly though, its good to know Wojo has some fire in him
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Duane should some explosive moves,not sure why so much hate.
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I know this is a little late but my friend who is a trainer told me Wojo was screaming at the guys after the scrimmage. Even called it a disgrace...
Honestly though, its good to know Wojo has some fire in him
He's 100% right. Scrimmage or not...it was a horrible display.
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I know this is a little late but my friend who is a trainer told me Wojo was screaming at the guys after the scrimmage. Even called it a disgrace...
Honestly though, its good to know Wojo has some fire in him
Heard that about Wojo too. Behind closed doors he really works the players in practice. A lot more fire than his calm outward demeanor. Not saying its a bad thing at all. I like the fact that he wants to get the best out of his players,
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Duane should some explosive moves,not sure why so much hate.
My biggest complaint with Duane was that he looked mentally weak and turned the ball over a TON. He just needs to not let things get to him. For example, he turned the ball over and instead of getting back on defense he grabbed Derrick and fouled him. He has so much potential but I have a feeling things like that arent going to fly with Wojo.
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My biggest complaint with Duane was that he looked mentally weak and turned the ball over a TON. He just needs to not let things get to him. For example, he turned the ball over and instead of getting back on defense he grabbed Derrick and fouled him. He has so much potential but I have a feeling things like that arent going to fly with Wojo.
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To be fair I think Duane was set up to fail going up against Derrick who is a pretty good defender. But also, Derrick is a scrappy senior and he knows what Duane can do. That was Duane's first action in a long time so I think a lot of people just need to relax and believe in the coaches. I have no doubts that Duane will fix any issues he's currently having. He'll be fine just give him some time.
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My biggest complaint with Duane was that he looked mentally weak and turned the ball over a TON. He just needs to not let things get to him. For example, he turned the ball over and instead of getting back on defense he grabbed Derrick and fouled him. He has so much potential but I have a feeling things like that arent going to fly with Wojo.
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To be fair I think Duane was set up to fail going up against Derrick who is a pretty good defender. But also, Derrick is a scrappy senior and he knows what Duane can do. That was Duane's first action in a long time so I think a lot of people just need to relax and believe in the coaches. I have no doubts that Duane will fix any issues he's currently having. He'll be fine just give him some time.
Yep
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I know this is a little late but my friend who is a trainer told me Wojo was screaming at the guys after the scrimmage. Even called it a disgrace...
Honestly though, its good to know Wojo has some fire in him
Why is it good to know that Wojo can scream at the players? There is nothing wrong with it, but you can get your point across in many different ways. And a lot of screamers with "fire" have turned out to be poor coaches.
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If Buzz were doing it, the Buzz haters would whine. If Crean would have done it, the Crean haters would have whined. This is still the honeymoon phase. If the players respond well, then it is good that he did it. If not......
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Why is it good to know that Wojo can scream at the players? There is nothing wrong with it, but you can get your point across in many different ways. And a lot of screamers with "fire" have turned out to be poor coaches.
He could serve milk and cookies and give everyone a participation medal.
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Heard that about Wojo too. Behind closed doors he really works the players in practice. A lot more fire than his calm outward demeanor. Not saying its a bad thing at all. I like the fact that he wants to get the best out of his players,
Coach K is much the same way
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He could serve milk and cookies and give everyone a participation medal.
It only took just over a half hour for someone to miss the point completely. Pretty solid for a sleepy Sunday afternoon.
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If Buzz were doing it, the Buzz haters would whine. If Crean would have done it, the Crean haters would have whined. This is still the honeymoon phase. If the players respond well, then it is good that he did it. If not......
Of course. The point wasn't that screaming at someone is always ineffective. The point is that screaming at players, and showing "fire," may or may not be a good thing. It's only good if it works.
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Why is it good to know that Wojo can scream at the players? There is nothing wrong with it, but you can get your point across in many different ways. And a lot of screamers with "fire" have turned out to be poor coaches.
I'm glad to hear that he yelled at the team. It says to me that Wojo is not going to be content to just "mail in" this season and play for next with his big recruiting class. I didn't go to the scrimmage but from the reports its sounds like nobody played that well and some of the guys didn't seem that focused. One of the concerns I had with Wojo and his staff of "recent x-players" is that they might be too likely to fall into identifying with the players and going easy on them as a result. To use a "Buzz-ism" this team is going to have no margin for error. They have to bring it every game or they will lose to average teams and have no chance against good teams. Need to set that expectation right away.
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Of course. The point wasn't that screaming at someone is always ineffective. The point is that screaming at players, and showing "fire," may or may not be a good thing. It's only good if it works.
I recently read a bit about coaching in soccer and the fallacy that's been perpetuated that screaming produces improved performance. The argument is that a lot of it has to with regression to the mean occurring all the time, whether it's athletic performance, office work, flying a plane, etc. So when an athlete performs poorly, the coach yells and the athlete does better the next time. When an athlete does well, the coach praises and the athlete does worse the next time, so it registers that being loud and mean all the time is the best approach. In reality, an athlete who performs below standard is more likely to do better next time anyway, and the opposite applies to a higher than average performance.
Yelling can still work, but there's more psychological subtlety to it than just spouting off whenever something doesn't go well.
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I recently read a bit about coaching in soccer and the fallacy that's been perpetuated that screaming produces improved performance. The argument is that a lot of it has to with regression to the mean occurring all the time, whether it's athletic performance, office work, flying a plane, etc. So when an athlete performs poorly, the coach yells and the athlete does better the next time. When an athlete does well, the coach praises and the athlete does worse the next time, so it registers that being loud and mean all the time is the best approach. In reality, an athlete who performs below standard is more likely to do better next time anyway, and the opposite applies to a higher than average performance.
Yelling can still work, but there's more psychological subtlety to it than just spouting off whenever something doesn't go well.
Facts on scoop? What a concept.
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I'm glad to hear that he yelled at the team. It says to me that Wojo is not going to be content to just "mail in" this season and play for next with his big recruiting class. I didn't go to the scrimmage but from the reports its sounds like nobody played that well and some of the guys didn't seem that focused. One of the concerns I had with Wojo and his staff of "recent x-players" is that they might be too likely to fall into identifying with the players and going easy on them as a result. To use a "Buzz-ism" this team is going to have no margin for error. They have to bring it every game or they will lose to average teams and have no chance against good teams. Need to set that expectation right away.
I have no idea what that has to do with yelling and "fire." You seem to be saying that it is a sign that he is going to care more, but that doesn't seem right to me.
I recently read a bit about coaching in soccer and the fallacy that's been perpetuated that screaming produces improved performance. The argument is that a lot of it has to with regression to the mean occurring all the time, whether it's athletic performance, office work, flying a plane, etc. So when an athlete performs poorly, the coach yells and the athlete does better the next time. When an athlete does well, the coach praises and the athlete does worse the next time, so it registers that being loud and mean all the time is the best approach. In reality, an athlete who performs below standard is more likely to do better next time anyway, and the opposite applies to a higher than average performance.
Yelling can still work, but there's more psychological subtlety to it than just spouting off whenever something doesn't go well.
Agreed. Thanks for the insight.
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I have no idea what that has to do with yelling and "fire." You seem to be saying that it is a sign that he is going to care more, but that doesn't seem right to me.
The team plays sloppy and doesn't seem to take the scrimmage seriously. The coach makes it clear, by yelling afterwards, that he expects much better play. Doesn't seem all that complicated to me.
Would you have preferred he tell them, "You guys sure didn't look good but that's ok, you were tried and are still gelling. When you're ready I'm sure you'll play better. Don't sweat it"
?-(
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The team plays sloppy and doesn't seem to take the scrimmage seriously. The coach makes it clear, by yelling afterwards, that he expects much better play. Doesn't seem all that complicated to me.
Would you have preferred he tell them, "You guys sure didn't look good but that's ok, you were tried and are still gelling. When you're ready I'm sure you'll play better. Don't sweat it"
?-(
I prefer him to use whatever tactics work. Some good coaches yell...some don't. Some bad coaches yell...some don't.
Yelling doesn't mean better coaching or that they care more. That's all I'm saying.
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All I was trying to say about him having some "fire" was that its nice to see he can get mad when things don't go how he wants. Its nice cause all we have seen from Wojo at this point are smiles and scripted answers in interviews.
Also, I don't think there has ever been a successful coach who doesn't ever yell. I guarantee you all D1 coaches yell at some point. It's an easy way to get your point across. I'm not saying yelling shows you're a good coach, but it is something that happens across the board.
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I agree. It was done behind closed doors, he was justified based on the performance of the team. No reason to believe he is the second coming of Bobby Knight. If the team appears more focused in the next scrimmage, the way the message was delivered must have been a success. If not and this becomes a pattern everybody can worry if then if they want. Next case.
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LOL. All coaches yell,now is the yelling constructive or demoralizing like mike rice.
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I agree. It was done behind closed doors, he was justified based on the performance of the team. No reason to believe he is the second coming of Bobby Knight. If the team appears more focused in the next scrimmage, the way the message was delivered must have been a success. If not and this becomes a pattern everybody can worry if then if they want. Next case.
Seriously what is the deal here? I never disputed that. Ever.
What I had trouble with was the phrase "its good to know Wojo has some fire in him" because he screamed at the team. To me screaming at the team is the coaching technique he decided to employ at the time. I don't think it shows "fire." I don't think that if decided not to scream that it wouldn't necessarily be bad, nor would it show a lack of "fire."
Again, for the umpteeth time, I have no problem with Wojo screaming at the team.
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I once had a football coach yell at me for not running full speed in a drill. He said after that the day he stops yelling at me is the day he gave up on me. Not saying someone has to yell to be a good coach, but it can also be effective in motivating the team. Given their effort in the scrimmage they should have been yelled at.
As long as as Wojo doesn't start having yelling tantrums (i.e. I'm a man, I'm 40) during press conferences I'm good.
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So wait .... it took reports of him yelling after a scrimmage to confirm that Wojo has some "fire" in him?
Hmmm. I kinda figured it was a given with that guy.
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So wait .... it took reports of him yelling after a scrimmage to confirm that Wojo has some "fire" in him?
Hmmm. I kinda figured it was a given with that guy.
right
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Adding #yellgate to the list of Scoop concerns
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+1
This analysis is a waste of time. I saw a bunch of kids out there screwing around and having fun and we're analyzing it is if were getting ready to go to the NCAA tournament.
Here's all the analysis you need to know ... everybody played and nobody's hurt ... next
Right a Scrimmage that included a dunk contest..... That like making an professional analysis of a pick up game at the park, lets not jump the shark for this season....
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right
Wait till the floor slapping starts. Prediction: Derrick will be the first to do it. Any other guesses? Somebody should start a pool.
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I know this is a little late but my friend who is a trainer told me Wojo was screaming at the guys after the scrimmage. Even called it a disgrace...
Honestly though, its good to know Wojo has some fire in him
I hope this is not true!!
All I could think of is when Dave Wannstedt, the former Bears head coach, used to scream at his players and make his starters play extra series in early preseason games because they dogged it. It was a sign that he was a poor coach and the next five years of screwing up the Bears prove it. (then he confirmed what a crappy coach he was by doing the same The U)
No matter how bad or how good you look in a scrimmage, it's a scrimmage! It's screwing around, it's not serious. It doesn't matter it doesn't deserve to be yelled that no matter what you did. Especially after the three point contest was canceled, the Rim broke, The fire alarm went off, and the women's team took forever. All the excitement was taken out of the room.
Yelling too much is a sign that you've lost control and I hope that's not the case Wojo.
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I literally did a facepalm after reading this post. Good lord, get a grip...
I hope this is not true!!
All I could think of is when Dave Wannstedt, the former Bears head coach, used to scream at his players and make his starters play extra series in early preseason games because they dogged it. It was a sign that he was a poor coach and the next five years of screwing up the Bears prove it. (then he confirmed what a crappy coach he was by doing the same The U)
No matter how bad or how good you look in a scrimmage, it's a scrimmage! It's screwing around, it's not serious. It doesn't matter it doesn't deserve to be yelled that no matter what you did. Especially after the three point contest was canceled, the Rim broke, The fire alarm went off, and the women's team took forever. All the excitement was taken out of the room.
Yelling too much is a sign that you've lost control and I hope that's not the case Wojo.
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Well, considering a loss to K-State in a preseason scrimmage torpedoed our seed one year, you can't say scrimmages aren't important.
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I hope this is not true!!
All I could think of is when Dave Wannstedt, the former Bears head coach, used to scream at his players and make his starters play extra series in early preseason games because they dogged it. It was a sign that he was a poor coach and the next five years of screwing up the Bears prove it. (then he confirmed what a crappy coach he was by doing the same The U)
No matter how bad or how good you look in a scrimmage, it's a scrimmage! It's screwing around, it's not serious. It doesn't matter it doesn't deserve to be yelled that no matter what you did. Especially after the three point contest was canceled, the Rim broke, The fire alarm went off, and the women's team took forever. All the excitement was taken out of the room.
Yelling too much is a sign that you've lost control and I hope that's not the case Wojo.
quick...someone find an example of a championship winning coach that yelled after a scrimmage. wojo had every right to yell after that scrimmage, and my guess is it was very well thought out and calculated. the scrimmage also wasn't set up like a typical have fun, get up and down the court, don't play defense type thing. they were pressing and dogging each other on defense...took some time at the half. i think he was using the scrimmage as a coaching moment, and when the players didn't respond, he let them have it. anyone at that scrimmage will tell you it was downright painful. maybe 1/3 of the crowd remained by the time it was over.
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Right a Scrimmage that included a dunk contest..... That like making an professional analysis of a pick up game at the park, lets not jump the shark for this season....
i would say that if they were told to play hard, the dunk contest has nothing to do with it. step on the court and play hard. there are also plenty of scouts/coaches that make professional analysis based upon scrimmages, and if wojo wanted them to play at a practice level...it's fair to do so. i'm not sure what i saw on friday night...
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I hope this is not true!!
All I could think of is when Dave Wannstedt, the former Bears head coach, used to scream at his players and make his starters play extra series in early preseason games because they dogged it. It was a sign that he was a poor coach and the next five years of screwing up the Bears prove it. (then he confirmed what a crappy coach he was by doing the same The U)
No matter how bad or how good you look in a scrimmage, it's a scrimmage! It's screwing around, it's not serious. It doesn't matter it doesn't deserve to be yelled that no matter what you did. Especially after the three point contest was canceled, the Rim broke, The fire alarm went off, and the women's team took forever. All the excitement was taken out of the room.
Yelling too much is a sign that you've lost control and I hope that's not the case Wojo.
Yes its a scrimmage, but its still practice. Thats good he yelled
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i would say that if they were told to play hard, the dunk contest has nothing to do with it. step on the court and play hard. there are also plenty of scouts/coaches that make professional analysis based upon scrimmages, and if wojo wanted them to play at a practice level...it's fair to do so. i'm not sure what i saw on friday night...
Those scrimmages are at the end of the season when everyone is on shape and understand their seriousness, as you are trying to impress a professional scout.
None of those scrimmages are done on a Friday night in front of hundreds of drunk fans, after a women's scrimmage, a dunk contest, and a cancelled three point competition with the coaches.
Look I agree they did not look that good but I also think it is indicative of nothing. As I said on page one, anyone that is analyzing last Friday night as if it was a serious effort, and if the coaches are yelling at them as if they lost a real game, needs to get a grip. Not those like me that are arguing that ANALyzing Friday was a waste of time Madtown.
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Yes its a scrimmage, but its still practice. Thats good he yelled
No, practice was earlier in the day. That was 20 minutes of screwing around and having fun.
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Anything that stems from a lack of Mental focus and a Lack of Effort you cannot let go. Missing shots or things along those lines are quite different. I think you cannot let that go or it says that its acceptable sometimes. The best player's are for the most part also the best practice player's usually as well.
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Anything that stems from a lack of Mental focus and a Lack of Effort you cannot let go. Missing shots or things along those lines are quite different. I think you cannot let that go or it says that its acceptable sometimes. The best player's are for the most part also the best practice player's usually as well.
So, guys having fund at 9PM on Friday night after sitting around almost two hours watching the festivities, and having a full practice and classes earlier in the day, are going to get yelled at for missing an open shot as if it is no different than playing Georgetown in February?
This might be worse than Bobbly Knight right before he was shown the door.
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Is anyone really surprised that Wojo would work his players' patoots off behind close doors? That he'd yell at them behind closed doors?
Go back and re-read the onwisconsin.com article about the guy. He has a well-documented history of setting a bar for his teammates and players above where they are and then expecting, encouraging, and seeing those teammates and players clear that bar.
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So, guys having fund at 9PM on Friday night after sitting around almost two hours watching the festivities, and having a full practice and classes earlier in the day, are going to get yelled at for missing an open shot as if it is no different than playing Georgetown in February?
This might be worse than Bobbly Knight right before he was shown the door.
Are you related to the gentleman in blue?
(http://media3.giphy.com/media/DpotZQmEUliqk/200.gif)
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Regardless of what the scrimmage looked like, what matters is what the team looks like at the beginning of March. I think it will be a stretch to make the NIT, but if the team shows continual improvement and the talent we believe to be there starts to show itself, I'm fine with it. This season is about getting reps and seeing if Wojo can coach and develop players.
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If the team approached this scrimmage with a different attitude than Wojo wanted, he needs to let them know that.
Other than that, this is not a big deal at all.
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"This might be worse than Bobbly Knight right before he was shown the door."
Triple facepalm....
I hope you are joking cause this might be the dumbest post in the history of MUScoop....
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If the team approached this scrimmage with a different attitude than Wojo wanted, he needs to let them know that.
Other than that, this is not a big deal at all.
The team attended Deonte's Mom's funeral and was ripped a new one shortly after for there underwhelming performance at the scrimmage. Wojo is certainly aware of the coal he is trying to turn into a diamond this year and they will be better than what was shown friday.....
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This might be worse than Bobbly Knight right before he was shown the door.
How many players did Wojo choke Friday night?
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This board has proved, at times, to be utterly insane but are we truly debating whether or not Wojo should've yelled at the guys after a scrimmage where anyone who attended noted that they played like crap and didn't care??
Jesus Christ, get a unnatural carnal knowledgeing grip. He expected them to play well and they didn't take it seriously. So he went off on them behind closed doors . This is a complete non-issue. When I was a manager with Buzz the year of DJO/Crowder this kinda stuff happened all the time. Wojo expected better and they didn't perform, so he let them have it. I loved hearing this.
And Heisenberg, if you are kidding about the Bobby Knight comparisons then this is a hell of a troll job. If not.....I mean.....
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Regardless of what the scrimmage looked like, what matters is what the team looks like at the beginning of March. I think it will be a stretch to make the NIT, but if the team shows continual improvement and the talent we believe to be there starts to show itself, I'm fine with it. This season is about getting reps and seeing if Wojo can coach and develop players.
Did you mean to write a stretch to make the NCAA? Perhaps you did mean NIT? I'm aware there are some limitations on the team this year as it relates to experience and proven contributors - yet let's not forget there is a LOT of Top 100 talent on the roster. I feel it could be choppy early, yet feel by mid January/early February the team will be rounding into form and should get itself on the bubble. Don't think 20 wins is out of the question - and just basing that largely on the potential* (dangerous word of course) of Deonte, Luke, JJJ, Duane, John, - and some improvement from Derrick, Juan and Steve...plus the addition of 5th year senior Carlino.
Just not sure a doom and gloom forecast is necessary - and I won't jump to that conclusion as I did in early December last year - with this year's team if it struggles out the gate.
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Those scrimmages are at the end of the season when everyone is on shape and understand their seriousness, as you are trying to impress a professional scout.
None of those scrimmages are done on a Friday night in front of hundreds of drunk fans, after a women's scrimmage, a dunk contest, and a cancelled three point competition with the coaches.
Look I agree they did not look that good but I also think it is indicative of nothing. As I said on page one, anyone that is analyzing last Friday night as if it was a serious effort, and if the coaches are yelling at them as if they lost a real game, needs to get a grip. Not those like me that are arguing that ANALyzing Friday was a waste of time Madtown.
BS...
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Unfortunately, coaches have to yell at players sometimes. Hopefully, it is not every day. Does it help? Maybe with some players. However, Buzz could not motivate these players and I am not sure Wojo yelling at them is going to help either. Buzz believed that you had to have tough players. Wojo was a tough player. Outside of Burton and Derrick Wilson are there any tough players on this team? Maybe Dawson. Talent means very little, if you cannot perform when the going gets tough.
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Did you mean to write a stretch to make the NCAA? Perhaps you did mean NIT? I'm aware there are some limitations on the team this year as it relates to experience and proven contributors - yet let's not forget there is a LOT of Top 100 talent on the roster. I feel it could be choppy early, yet feel by mid January/early February the team will be rounding into form and should get itself on the bubble. Don't think 20 wins is out of the question - and just basing that largely on the potential* (dangerous word of course) of Deonte, Luke, JJJ, Duane, John, - and some improvement from Derrick, Juan and Steve...plus the addition of 5th year senior Carlino.
Just not sure a doom and gloom forecast is necessary - and I won't jump to that conclusion as I did in early December last year - with this year's team if it struggles out the gate.
I absolutely meant NIT, I think this team likely finishes right around the same record as they had last season. It will have a very different feel to it though. I don't think it's doom or gloom, I think it's realistic. The coach changed, but not a ton else did from last season to this season. I completely agree there is a ton of talent on the team, but it is all very inexperienced. There is going to be a steep curve in the non-con and then again in the conference season once Fischer is back and the team has to learn how to play with him.
We have 9 players on the roster, we are one injury away from being insanely short handed. Other than Derrick Wilson, nobody has averaged more than 15 minutes a game and only three players have played more than 20 minutes in a single game (De Wilson, Carlino and Burton). To expect an NCAA birth is quite the stretch. I think the team will improve over the course of the season which is all I really want this season, but I think we'll be lucky to make the post season...of any kind.
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Unfortunately, coaches have to yell at players sometimes. Hopefully, it is not every day. Does it help? Maybe with some players. However, Buzz could not motivate these players and I am not sure Wojo yelling at them is going to help either. Buzz believed that you had to have tough players. Wojo was a tough player. Outside of Burton and Derrick Wilson are there any tough players on this team? Maybe Dawson. Talent means very little, if you cannot perform when the going gets tough.
Exactly. The kids should know that the tourney seeding committee looks to these scrimmages. By essentially tanking it, the team has moved down a few lines and squarely into bubble territory.
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I absolutely meant NIT, I think this team likely finishes right around the same record as they had last season. It will have a very different feel to it though. I don't think it's doom or gloom, I think it's realistic. The coach changed, but not a ton else did from last season to this season. I completely agree there is a ton of talent on the team, but it is all very inexperienced. There is going to be a steep curve in the non-con and then again in the conference season once Fischer is back and the team has to learn how to play with him.
We have 9 players on the roster, we are one injury away from being insanely short handed. Other than Derrick Wilson, nobody has averaged more than 15 minutes a game and only three players have played more than 20 minutes in a single game (De Wilson, Carlino and Burton). To expect an NCAA birth is quite the stretch. I think the team will improve over the course of the season which is all I really want this season, but I think we'll be lucky to make the post season...of any kind.
May the odds be ever in our favor.
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I can't imagine a coach getting bent by physical mistakes at this point in the season, but he sure can correct the mental ones.
If the effort and concentration weren't there, a coach is going to correct that behavior.
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I can't imagine a coach getting bent by physical mistakes at this point in the season, but he sure can correct the mental ones.
If the effort and concentration weren't there, a coach is going to correct that behavior.
I also think fans expect to much at the very beginning. They remember how the team last year was playing in March, but they do not remember how that team was playing at MU madness. There is a world of difference between a team at the start of the season and the team at the end of the season. The most important thing is the rate of improvement. The best team in October that barely improves will not be a ranked team come tournament time. I think this team is starting at a lower than usual level for an MU team, but being young they may improve at a greater than usual rate. At least I hope so.
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I absolutely meant NIT, I think this team likely finishes right around the same record as they had last season. It will have a very different feel to it though. I don't think it's doom or gloom, I think it's realistic. The coach changed, but not a ton else did from last season to this season. I completely agree there is a ton of talent on the team, but it is all very inexperienced. There is going to be a steep curve in the non-con and then again in the conference season once Fischer is back and the team has to learn how to play with him.
We have 9 players on the roster, we are one injury away from being insanely short handed. Other than Derrick Wilson, nobody has averaged more than 15 minutes a game and only three players have played more than 20 minutes in a single game (De Wilson, Carlino and Burton). To expect an NCAA birth is quite the stretch. I think the team will improve over the course of the season which is all I really want this season, but I think we'll be lucky to make the post season...of any kind.
Carlino averaged more than 27 minutes per game all 3 seasons at BYU.
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The team attended Deonte's Mom's funeral and was ripped a new one shortly after for there underwhelming performance at the scrimmage. Wojo is certainly aware of the coal he is trying to turn into a diamond this year and they will be better than what was shown friday.....
Deonte's Mom's funeral wasn't on Friday. It was Saturday
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How many players did Wojo choke Friday night?
My source said he choked 5 but that might include his own chicken. Still waitin for confirmation. Stay tuned.
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I prefer him to use whatever tactics work. Some good coaches yell...some don't. Some bad coaches yell...some don't.
Yelling doesn't mean better coaching or that they care more. That's all I'm saying.
To add to that some players respond and some don't. Different tactics work with different players and some respond to nothing. If this team, as a group, respond to any tactics we have some improvement, if not, think of next year.
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Deonte's Mom's funeral wasn't on Friday. It was Saturday
I was talking about the next day...
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Drake is at Big Blue Madness tonight...thought he was a Marquette lean.
http://deadspin.com/drake-is-playing-with-the-kentucky-wildcats-drake-suck-1647907573?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow (http://deadspin.com/drake-is-playing-with-the-kentucky-wildcats-drake-suck-1647907573?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)