MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Galway Eagle on October 09, 2014, 01:12:03 PM
-
They've both failed to attract a recruit like this to our university and Buzz when so far to say he ran the numbers and saw that it wouldn't be possible for us to land a recruit like henry and be successful. Meanwhile Wojo comes in and knocks it out of the park. Thoughts on what's going through their minds?
-
(http://d1w7nqlfxfj094.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/homer-s-brain_o_GIFSoup.com_.gif)
-
They've both failed to attract a recruit like this to our university and Buzz when so far to say he ran the numbers and saw that it wouldn't be possible for us to land a recruit like henry and be successful. Meanwhile Wojo comes in and knocks it out of the park. Thoughts on what's going through their minds?
Did he really say that? If so, wow. Run those #'s on VA Tech, see what they say.
Regarding their thoughts, I'm sure they recognize their inferiority, and that they both held MU back vs. their perception that it was the other way around.
We're entering a new golden age at MU. Neither of them will sniff our success over the next 5 years. Of that I am sure.
-
I'm guessing Crean doesn't probably pat much attention to MU anymore. Buzz is probably texting Goodman and Parrish bithcing about them screwing with his narrative.
-
Did he really say that? If so, wow. Run those #'s on VA Tech, see what they say.
Regarding their thoughts, I'm sure they recognize their inferiority, and that they both held MU back vs. their perception that it was the other way around.
We're entering a new golden age at MU. Neither of them will sniff our success over the next 5 years. Of that I am sure.
Ya I think it was on a Gary Parrish article that he explained that in a basketball only league at a catholic school he was less likely to attract top talent or sustain/improve upon the success he'd already achieved.
-
Did he really say that? If so, wow. Run those #'s on VA Tech, see what they say.
Regarding their thoughts, I'm sure they recognize their inferiority, and that they both held MU back vs. their perception that it was the other way around.
We're entering a new golden age at MU. Neither of them will sniff our success over the next 5 years. Of that I am sure.
Yep, Crean saw MU as limiting him from the next step, when in fact it was the other way around. But he made a lot of money. Buzz, had to get out of town the door was opened for him and he was getting pushed. He made a good move at the right time for himself financially, getting guaranteed money for the better half of a decade. I think Buzz knew his limits, and the story he has been spinning is just that, spin. And he knows it.
-
Both Crean & Buzz ate their current school's lunch at the negotiating table. They are fine.
-
If I recall the quote was more along the lines of sustained success. Buzz's (apparent) viewpoint was that continuing the Sweet 16s and Elite 8 appearances was not sustainable at a Catholic school in a new basketball-only league, where recruiting would ultimately suffer. Personally, I think that was his way of justifying leaving such a great situation for more money, but that's just me.
Crean's departure was never about more money or a new challenge. It was having the opportunity to coach at one of a few blue bloods in the country.
Call me an optimist, but I feel that (when both saw Henry's announcement) both felt happy and glad for the school - seeing their former team experience success and continue on with a tradition they were a part of. Today's events should only reinforce was has been previously mentioned by us numerous times before: Marquette is a basketball program, built not by one coach, or two, or three - but rather by a collection of really unique and committed individuals that aim to compete at the highest levels of college basketball.
-
Did he really say that? If so, wow. Run those #'s on VA Tech, see what they say.
Regarding their thoughts, I'm sure they recognize their inferiority, and that they both held MU back vs. their perception that it was the other way around.
We're entering a new golden age at MU. Neither of them will sniff our success over the next 5 years. Of that I am sure.
Parrish excerpts:
He studied how many programs succeed at a high level without some sort of ESPN contract. He estimated whether it was reasonable to expect the next six years at Marquette would duplicate or exceed the previous six. He researched every coach who has been at a high-major program for at least eight seasons to the point where he learned that staying in the same place too long in this era -- especially when you'll be inheriting a new athletic director soon, like he would've been at Marquette -- proves to be a mistake more often than not for most men.
Williams took an honest look at his career from every angle.
He was consumed with collecting the data that led to his decision to leave Marquette.
And, honestly, it wasn't as hard of a decision as most apparently think.
. He instead identified it as the bar set, and then he assembled "facts and data" in an attempt to determine whether it was reasonable to expect to maintain that level of success in a less-attractive Big East while playing league games off of ESPN and on Fox Sports 1. He concluded that it probably wasn't.
Couldn't find a direct comment about top recruits.
-
Fook 'em both
-
Ya I think it was on a Gary Parrish article that he explained that in a basketball only league at a catholic school he was less likely to attract top talent or sustain/improve upon the success he'd already achieved.
Buzz defending his panic and haste as sound analysis is hilarious.
-
Crean did a lot of good for MU. So did Williams. However, it was time for both to move on...and I'm glad they did.
I've had an excellent feeling about Wojo since Day One. And he's done nothing to change that. In fact, he's now exceeding my expectations. Reeling in Ellenson is HUGE.
I love where MU is heading. They have some great, talented people in place. School prez, AD, and hoops coach.
-
Fook 'em both
Yup.
-
Call me an optimist, but I feel that (when both saw Henry's announcement) both felt happy and glad for the school - seeing their former team experience success and continue on with a tradition they were a part of. Today's events should only reinforce was has been previously mentioned by us numerous times before: Marquette is a basketball program, built not by one coach, or two, or three - but rather by a collection of really unique and committed individuals that aim to compete at the highest levels of college basketball.
Couldn't agree with you more. I'm so incredibly happy with, excited about and proud of Marquette right now!
-
Crean is too worried about his own job to worry about HEllenson. Buzz doesn't have it on his minute-to-minute schedule to think about MU, so he probably hasn't.
-
In hindsight I kind of like Buzz more now. We've got a better coach because of him. Everything that had occurred over the last year has been pretty much an ideal scenario. I hope for the best for him but I will not miss him at all.
-
In hindsight I kind of like Buzz more now. We've got a better coach because of him. Everything that had occurred over the last year has been pretty much an ideal scenario. I hope for the best for him but I will not miss him at all.
That's how I felt about Crean when we got Buzz, and its how I feel about Buzz now with Wojo.
-
Over under on the amount of snide tweets Buzz has gotten today mentioning how the Big East "can't recruit"
-
Fook 'em both
Yerp
-
I hope they both felt some pride in their contribution in building MU to the point where we regularly compete for commits like HE.
-
Over under on the amount of snide tweets Buzz has gotten today mentioning how the Big East "can't recruit"
0.5
-
0.5
Well based on some of my friends I know that number is at least currently over 3 at the moment.
-
Who cares? Obviously a big day for MU and I'm happy. But Wojo hasn't coached one minute in a game. I trust the right decision was made and I'm curious to see how this team plays. I just listened to Zach Lowe's podcast with Fran Fraschilla about USA Basketball and the FIBA World Cup. Franschilla commented that he believes Coach K is a very good coach, but mediocre with X and O's. That was the first time I had heard that, and was wondering if anybody else felt the same way. Just because Wojo came from Duke, doesn't equate immediate game management skills. I hope he's better than Coach K.
-
Marquette isn't on Buzz's or Crean's radars right now. Nor should it be.
-
That's a really loaded question...i know alot of people dont like Buzz right about now but I think he is prolly 100% focused on getting VT better and that energizes him. I am sure he wants nothing but the best for him, he is a good guy and knows MU gave him one hell of an opportunity and will always be greatful for that.
Crean? does anyone really know what the fook goes on in that guys head or would anyone want to know? the guy is bat crap crazy.
Going back to my original point it is a loaded question with two bat crap crazy coaches, Buzz in a good way, Crean not so much
-
Buzz is reciting the Presidents names in order and Tommy is trying to remember what time his tanning appointment starts.
-
I'm not going to tarnish a great day in our program's history. Both Crean and Buzz were part of a great Marquette tradition of outstanding college basketball. I'll trust both are happy for their former program. We only make ourselves look 'small' by worrying about them. That said, I think we should try to schedule a Home/Home with Indiana. The BMO Bradley would absolutely rock.
-
Marquette isn't on Buzz's or Crean's radars right now. Nor should it be.
Right.
Those guys will always say the right things about their "time at MU", but the truth is, they don't really care. It's just a job.
WE all take it personally. They are professionals. Mercenaries. Assassins. Guns for hire.
-
I'd like to think that the last thing that went through their heads, other than those bullets, was to wonder how the hell Steve Wojciechowski ever got the best of them.
-
I'd like to think that the last thing that went through their heads, other than those bullets, was to wonder how the hell Steve Wojciechowski ever got the best of them.
Well done.
-
They've both failed to attract a recruit like this to our university and Buzz when so far to say he ran the numbers and saw that it wouldn't be possible for us to land a recruit like henry and be successful. Meanwhile Wojo comes in and knocks it out of the park. Thoughts on what's going through their minds?
Really?
Timing and luck are part of this as well. Did Crean or Buzz have a top 5 kid that was from the state who's dad played for Marquette for some time? Having an extra slot open for his brother, so on and so forth.
The last time a kid ranked this highly was from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf. It's about opportunities as much as anything....a lot of things have to fall into place.
-
That's a really loaded question...i know alot of people dont like Buzz right about now but I think he is prolly 100% focused on getting VT better and that energizes him. I am sure he wants nothing but the best for him, he is a good guy and knows MU gave him one hell of an opportunity and will always be greatful for that.
Crean? does anyone really know what the fook goes on in that guys head or would anyone want to know? the guy is bat crap crazy.
Going back to my original point it is a loaded question with two bat crap crazy coaches, Buzz in a good way, Crean not so much
On the level of crazies, I would rank them
1) Buzz
1b) Robbie River Rat \ Cloud Piercer \ Ahoya Ball Scout \ Mr. Hayward \ Canadian Dimes \ Black Swan
1c) Crean
Or better way to put it, all of the above.
-
Buzz is reciting the Presidents names in order and Tommy is trying to remember what time his tanning appointment starts.
Reverse alphabetical order, actually.
-
Really?
The last time a kid ranked this highly was from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf. It's about opportunities as much as anything....a lot of things have to fall into place.
Not true. In 2003, Brian Butch was a top 10 (maybe top 5) recruit, a McDonald's AA. We recruited him hard. He went to UW.
-
Not true. In 2003, Brian Butch was a top 10 (maybe top 5) recruit, a McDonald's AA. We recruited him hard. He went to UW.
Butch was #7 RSCI.
Nice to see Chico's still doing his best to play down the accomplishments of any Marquette coach not named Tom.
-
On the level of crazies, I would rank them
1) Buzz
1b) Robbie River Rat \ Cloud Piercer \ Ahoya Ball Scout \ Mr. Hayward \ Canadian Dimes \ Black Swan
1c) Crean
Or better way to put it, all of the above.
I might change 1b and 1c but otherwise I would agree there.
-
My guess is that we are going to learn that Wojo is a much better X's and O's coach than was his predecessor.
-
Yes, things lined up for Wojo...but he still had to make it happen. Doubt that Crean could have closed the deal...and Williams had no chance. Wojo came in and made up a ton of ground in six months.
I'm going to enjoy this and avoid any pissing matches. MU has landed it best recruit since Doc Rivers. Let that sink in for a moment.
Just allow yourselves to be happy.
-
Yes, things lined up for Wojo...but he still had to make it happen. Doubt that Crean could have closed the deal...and Williams had no chance. Wojo came in and made up a ton of ground in six months.
I'm going to enjoy this and avoid any pissing matches. MU has landed it best recruit since Doc Rivers. Let that sink in for a moment.
Just allow yourselves to be happy.
This. Just live in the present and enjoy the ride. Woulda-coulda-shoulda gets us nowhere. Wojo did a great thing. Let's hope his coaching meets up his recruiting.
-
I have never answered anything on this board with such a high level of confidence. What is going through their minds right now?
Crean: "Deflections!"
Brick: "Paint touches!"
-
I have never answered anything on this board with such a high level of confidence. What is going through their minds right now?
Crean: "Deflections!"
Brick: "Paint touches!"
We now move on to "Floor Slaps"
-
Crean: something creepy
Buzz: something imagined, probably OCD-driven
-
I have never answered anything on this board with such a high level of confidence. What is going through their minds right now?
Crean: "Deflections!"
Brick: "Paint touches!"
Dean-o: "Bottoms up"
-
Marquette isn't on Buzz's or Crean's radars right now. Nor should it be.
Marquette is all over Crean's radar... or at least his media guide.
We'll see what's in VT's soon.
-
I'm not going to tarnish a great day in our program's history. Both Crean and Buzz were part of a great Marquette tradition of outstanding college basketball. I'll trust both are happy for their former program. We only make ourselves look 'small' by worrying about them. That said, I think we should try to schedule a Home/Home with Indiana. The BMO Bradley would absolutely rock.
Right on!! Let's move on from this Crean/Buzz hate obsession. I suspect they both are happy for MU. Both made a choice, maybe it doesn't work out. Their problem.
-
IOn the level of crazies, I would rank them
1) Buzz
1b) Robbie River Rat \ Cloud Piercer \ Ahoya Ball Scout \ Mr. Hayward \ Canadian Dimes \ Black Swan
1c) Crean
Or better way to put it, all of the above.
I might change 1b and 1c but otherwise I would agree there.
As has been previously stated the problem with ignore on this board is u still see when other people quote them. Talk about obsession!
-
Brian Butch: The only non-medical redshirt for a McD's player. Media fails to recognize Bo's use of the redshirt to amass 5 year players. When you run his system, that extra year is valuable. Really not a criticism but I was always amazed he was able to get Butch to redshirt. Funny thing was one reason was to get stronger and put on more weight. After that he needed to lose weight and get quicker.
As far a Chicos, there is a reason he loves pissing in our Cheerios....gets his name mentioned while protecting the legacy of Crean (whom he worked with, if you did not know that!)
Butch was #7 RSCI.
Nice to see Chico's still doing his best to play down the accomplishments of any Marquette coach not named Tom.
-
Not true. In 2003, Brian Butch was a top 10 (maybe top 5) recruit, a McDonald's AA. We recruited him hard. He went to UW.
His dad went to Marquette? I believe I stated that.
-
Here we go again. Chicos bound and determined to make today all about him. Moderators please ban this troll.
-
Here we go again. Chicos bound and determined to make today all about him. Moderators please ban this troll.
You and Lenny didn't read what I wrote and now you want me banned because you two made a mistake.
-
Dean-o: "Bottoms up"
KO: "Look at the rack on that one!"
-
Yes, things lined up for Wojo...but he still had to make it happen. Doubt that Crean could have closed the deal...and Williams had no chance. Wojo came in and made up a ton of ground in six months.
I'm going to enjoy this and avoid any pissing matches. MU has landed it best recruit since Doc Rivers. Let that sink in for a moment.
Just allow yourselves to be happy.
No idea...all hypotheticals. Luck, opportunity, etc, are involved along with playing time, coach's ability to sell, etc, etc, etc. Buzz has landed some big time kids, so has Crean, they've also missed on big time kids just as Wojo will....all part of the landscape. This particular case was a special one, his dad played for MU for a short time and his brother transfered here. Not sure TC or BW ever had that same scenario. I'm glad it worked out, because clearly he wasn't coming here with Buzz, but did with Wojo. Works for me.
Who's not happy? Always seems odd to me that when people answer questions with an honest approach it torques some people off for whatever reason. I'm not sure why pointing out the uniqueness of this situation is a wrong, but certainly one or two feel violated for mentioning those details. Whatever, can't please everyone.
Welcome to MU Mr. Ellenson. I was a student when your dad was here....good to see you pounding the cracked sidewalks of Marquette University.
-
You and Lenny didn't read what I wrote and now you want me banned because you two made a mistake.
Wait a second. You wrote "the last time a kid ranked this high from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf"
That is unequivocally wrong. The last time a kid from the state was ranked this highly and was recruited by Marquette was 2003. Brian Butch was the player, TC was the coach.
-
If I recall the quote was more along the lines of sustained success. Buzz's (apparent) viewpoint was that continuing the Sweet 16s and Elite 8 appearances was not sustainable at a Catholic school in a new basketball-only league, where recruiting would ultimately suffer. Personally, I think that was his way of justifying leaving such a great situation for more money, but that's just me.
Crean's departure was never about more money or a new challenge. It was having the opportunity to coach at one of a few blue bloods in the country.
Call me an optimist, but I feel that (when both saw Henry's announcement) both felt happy and glad for the school - seeing their former team experience success and continue on with a tradition they were a part of. Today's events should only reinforce was has been previously mentioned by us numerous times before: Marquette is a basketball program, built not by one coach, or two, or three - but rather by a collection of really unique and committed individuals that aim to compete at the highest levels of college basketball.
Excellent post and commentary....I concur wholeheartedly on all counts.
-
Wait a second. You wrote "the last time a kid ranked this high from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf"
That is unequivocally wrong. The last time a kid from the state was ranked this highly and was recruited by Marquette was 2003. Brian Butch was the player, TC was the coach.
Sigh.
Go back...again...and read what I said. Here's a hint, it's on the same post as the one you posted, but you didn't read the part before it. This isn't hard, it really isn't.
-
Sigh.
Go back...again...and read what I said. Here's a hint, it's on the same post as the one you posted, but you didn't read the part before it. This isn't hard, it really isn't.
Sigh. Did Joe Wolf have a father and a brother who went to MU?
-
This is hilarious because Henry's dad transferred out of Marquette to Wisconsin.
And Rice Lake is basically a resort town for the Twin Cities.
The degree of difficulty was off the charts.
-
This is hilarious because Henry's dad transferred out of Marquette to Wisconsin.
And Rice Lake is basically a resort town for the Twin Cities.
The degree of difficulty was off the charts.
That is correct, but he transferred out because of a coaching change not because he didn't like Marquette. All it would take is actually reading his own comments about MU in various articles.
-
Sigh. Did Joe Wolf have a father and a brother who went to MU?
Leo, Joe's dad, was a truck driver and I don't believe he attended college. Perhaps if he had gone to MU things would have been different...especially if he was a player for MU.
Impossible to know, which has been the premise of my comments all along on this topic. None of us know, but the situation that presented itself is unique in MU history.....or are you going to deny that?
-
Probably both thinking about their respective team's practice. I don't think they stalk MU like you think they do.
-
Buzz: something imagined, probably OCD-driven
Buzz: "I told that gawddam manager he needs to flush twice after I've eaten pulled pork!!"
-
Leo, Joe's dad, was a truck driver and I don't believe he attended college. Perhaps if he had gone to MU things would have been different...especially if he was a player for MU.
Impossible to know, which has been the premise of my comments all along on this topic. None of us know, but the situation that presented itself is unique in MU history.....or are you going to deny that?
Here's the thing. You wrote that Marquette had not recruited a guy ranked as high as Henry since Majerus recruited Joe Wolf. That's patently false. Long after we recruited Joe Wolf (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU) we recruited Brian Butch (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU). So you were 100% wrong in your assertion.
The other stuff, was this a unique situation, etc., sure. I never addressed that, I was correcting your mistake about our recruiting history. I don't know whether Henry's Dad enrolling in, becoming disenchanted with and eventually transferring from Marquette helped us or hurt us. Neither do you. But whether it did or not can't make joeWolf's recruitment come AFTER Brian Butch's. It would be like saying in 1980 that we hadn't been in a world war since World War I. Wrong.
-
Sigh. Did Joe Wolf have a father and a brother who went to MU?
No, but his older brother Jeff went to UNC (was on the runner up team to MU) which sealed the deal. This broke Rick at MU, remembering he is from up in that area (Sheboygan Falls). Losing Ricky Olson, Sir Walter the first time...kids he knew as their camp counselor, took its toll on him personally.
Wojo, though, shored up his base at hit it out of the park.
-
Both Crean & Buzz ate their current school's lunch at the negotiating table. They are fine.
Yes both happy in the Big Ten and ACC. I think they are pleased for MU and wish us well.
-
Here's the thing. You wrote that Marquette had not recruited a guy ranked as high as Henry since Majerus recruited Joe Wolf. That's patently false. Long after we recruited Joe Wolf (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU) we recruited Brian Butch (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU). So you were 100% wrong in your assertion.
The other stuff, was this a unique situation, etc., sure. I never addressed that, I was correcting your mistake about our recruiting history. I don't know whether Henry's Dad enrolling in, becoming disenchanted with and eventually transferring from Marquette helped us or hurt us. Neither do you. But whether it did or not can't make joeWolf's recruitment come AFTER Brian Butch's. It would be like saying in 1980 that we hadn't been in a world war since World War I. Wrong.
Joe Wolf was considered a much better player than Brian Butch ever was. For Christ sake, Butch has to redshirt his freshman year. You continue to make the mistake year in and year out when you say the #15 guy one year is the same as the #15 guy from a different year. I don't know how many times we have to go through this, but each year is different and some years the classes are strong than other years. There has to be a #1, a #23, a #54, a #89 in each year, but that doesn't mean they compare in ability. #15 one year might be #40 in another year. Wolf > Butch...by a mile.
Sorry, I wasn't wrong....deal with it.
And Wolf went to UNC where his brother went, his father didn't. Henry chose MU for all kinds of reasons, and I'm damn glad he did. Didn't hurt that his dad went to MU and still held it in high regard (he transferred because of a coaching change). Didn't hurt that this is considered arguably the best player in state history OTHER THAN JOE WOLF and maybe 2 or 3 others (NOT BRIAN BUTCH in that top 5). Didn't hurt that his brother is at MU, which is also a unique situation that Wojo had that no one else did. In the history of the MU program, only one other time has MU had two brothers play at the same school. As for this thread, apples to oranges comparison....which is what I stated.
-
Put together by Wisconsin media a few years ago, can't recall the publication
THE FIRST TEAM
JOE WOLF, 6-10, KOHLER
Played 1979-’83. Scored 2,086 points, including a high of 804 as a junior. Played in the McDonald’s All-American Game. "He was legendary," said Tom Desotell, coach at Sheboygan North. "Man! He could shoot from the perimeter. He could take it inside. You couldn’t stop him." AP and UPI player of the year, and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior and junior.
(Played 11 years in the NBA. Played four years at North Carolina.)
FRED BROWN, 6-2, MILWAUKEE LINCOLN (aka, "Downtown" Freddie Brown)
Played 1964-’67. Scored 1,108 points, including 604 as a senior. Averaged 21.2 points in six state tournament games as his team won back-to-back titles his junior and senior years. "Fred Brown was the best player that I’ve ever seen in high school," said John Weinert, former coach at Milwaukee King and later coach at Bowling Green. "He could do everything. Low key. But he had great range, great jumping ability. What he did best was, he was a great, great defensive player. He could play one-on-one defense as well as anybody that I’ve ever seen in high school." AP all-state and UPI second team as a senior.
(Played 13 years in the NBA. Played two years at Iowa and named AP third team All-American as a senior.)
JIM CHONES, 6-11,
RACINE PARK /
ST. CATHERINE’S
Played 1966-’69. Scored 1,073 points, including 630 as a senior. Led the WISAA state tournament with 94 points when his team won the title his senior year to finish 26-0. "He was super," said Joe Buneta, former coach at Milwaukee Pius. "Big, tall, strong. He was a dominating high school player. Mostly jump shots, hook shots, rebounds. He had a nice build for a high school player." UPI player of the year as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played two years in the ABA and eight in the NBA. Played two-plus years at Marquette and named AP All-American as a junior.)
TONY BENNETT, 6-0, GREEN BAY PREBLE
Played 1985-’88. Scored 1,340 points, including 689 as a senior. "He was just so solid," said Dick Diener, coach at Fond du Lac. "Tough all the way around. He was a guy who just never made mistakes with the ball. He was a good pull-up jump shooter. He made everybody around him better. Never anything real flashy, but a great all-around percentage player." AP and UPI player of the year, and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior. AP third team and UPI second team as a junior.
(Played three years in the NBA. Played four years at UW-Green Bay and ranked first in all-time scoring.)
DON KOJIS, 6-5, MILWAUKEE NOTRE DAME
Played 1954-’57. Scored 1,398 points, including 689 as a senior. Averaged 31.3 points per game as a senior. "Great! Extremely tough on the boards, offensively and defensively," said Bob Jaskulski, former coach at Milwaukee Tech. "He was a good perimeter shooter. But in high school, he was so strong inside that’s where he operated." AP all-state as a senior.
(Played 12 years in the NBA. Played three years at Marquette and ranked ninth in all-time scoring.)
THE SECOND TEAM
CLARENCE SHERROD, 6-0, MILWAUKEE LINCOLN
Played 1964-’67. Scored 1,021 points, including 548 as a senior. Averaged 19.7 points in six state tournament games as his team won back-to-back titles his junior and senior years. "He was better than (Fred) Brown in high school," said Stan DuFrane, former coach at Janesville Craig. "So quick. He could do everything. There’d be two guys there and he’d go right between them. He was one of the first guys to bring the ball behind his back and dribble." AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played three years at Wisconsin and ranked eighth in all-time scoring.)
SAM OKEY, 6-7, CASSVILLE
Played 1991-’95. Scored 2,539 points, including 844 as a senior. Played in the McDonald’s All-American Game. "Probably the best high school player I saw in Wisconsin up to that point," said Jim Nedelcoff, former coach at Southwestern. "He could rebound. He could shoot. He was a tremendous passer. He could do everything." AP and Milwaukee Journal player of the year as a senior and junior, and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and Milwaukee Journal all-state as a senior and junior. AP and Milwaukee Journal second team as a sophomore.
(Played two years at Wisconsin and named Big Ten freshman of the year. Played one year at Iowa.)
JOHN JOHNSON, 6-6, MILWAUKEE ST. BENEDICT /
MILWAUKEE MESSMER
Played 1963-’66. Scored 1,493 points, including 680 as a senior. Scored 69 points and grabbed 64 rebounds in the WISAA state tournament when his team won the title his senior year. "He was tremendous," said Tom Sager, former coach at Milwaukee Don Bosco. "He was a big forward who could really handle the ball, shoot well, rebound. Drive to the basket. Dominating rebounder. He was like a center who could play anywhere." AP and UPI all-state as a senior. UPI Private-Parochial all-state as a junior.
(Played 12 years in the NBA. Played two years at Iowa and ranked 20th in all-time scoring.)
ANTHONY PIEPER, 6-3, WAUSAUKEE
Played 1989-’93. Scored 3,391 points, including 1,063 as a senior. Holds the state records for all-time and single-season scoring. "For a high school player, I thought he was as good as there was offensively," said Tony Fiore, former coach at Crivitz. "He could shoot it. He could go to the hole. He could dunk it. He was an offensive machine. There was no way you could stop him." AP and Milwaukee Journal player of the year, and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and Milwaukee Journal all-state as a senior. AP second team as a junior. AP fourth team as a sophomore.
(Played four years at Marquette and ranked 23rd in all-time scoring.)
DEVIN HARRIS, 6-3,
WAUWATOSA EAST
Played 1998-’01. Scored 1,083 points, including 582 as a senior. "Liked him a lot," said John Boyle, coach at Middleton. "He was a competitor. When the game was on the line, he was at his best. Outside, inside. He could put it on the floor and go to the hole. He was pretty versatile. He could make the pass, too." AP player of the year and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and Journal Sentinel / WBCA all-state as a senior.
(Playing his first season in the NBA. Played three years at Wisconsin and ranked seventh in all-time scoring.)
THE THIRD TEAM
BILL HANZLIK, 6-7, BELOIT
Played 1975-’76. Scored 469 points. Transferred from Portland, Ore. "He was a dynamite player," said Jim Stevens, former coach at Madison West. "He could do everything physically. Nobody could defend him out there. Plus, he was a constant threat to drive." AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played 10 years in the NBA. Played four years at Notre Dame.)
NICK VAN EXEL, 6-0, KENOSHA
ST. JOSEPH
Played 1987-’89. Scored 1,282 points, including 772 as a senior. Led the WISAA state tournament in scoring as a junior and senior when his team lost in the finals both years. "They couldn’t stop him with a club. They can’t stop him now," said Tom Sager, former coach at Racine Park. "He had an attitude. He was spunky. He had a chip on his shoulder. He could play, though." AP all-state as a senior.
(Playing his 12th season in the NBA. Played two years at Cincinnati and named AP third team All-American as a senior.)
KURT NIMPHIUS, 6-9, SOUTH MILWAUKEE
Played 1973-’76. Scored 986 points, including 695 as a senior. Led the state tournament in scoring with 97 points when his team won the title his senior year. "He was just dominating in ’76," said Clyde Rusk, former coach at Milwaukee Washington. "He pulled that whole team with him, he was so good. They had four mediocre role players. He was almost unstoppable. He was a very strong player, very consistent." UPI player of the year as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played eight years in the NBA. Played four years at Arizona State.)
RICK OLSON, 6-1, MADISON LA FOLLETTE
Played 1979-’82. Scored 1,121 points, including 694 as a senior. Led the state tournament in scoring when his team won the title his senior year. "He was an exceptional shooter," said Stan DuFrane, former coach at Janesville Craig. "They ran their offense by getting the ball down immediately and letting him do something with it. Probably not quite as good a defensive player as some of these other guys, but an excellent player." AP and UPI player of the year, and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played four years at Wisconsin and ranked fourth all-time in scoring.)
TRAVIS DIENER, 6-0, FOND DU LAC
Played 1997-’01. Scored 1,515 points, including 516 as a senior. Three-time all-Fox Valley Association selection. "Wow! He just got it done," said John Miron, coach at Kimberly. "He was an assassin. He’d look you in the eye and knock you dead from 25 feet. He just found a way to win. Game after game, he found a way." AP and Journal Sentinel / WBCA all-state as a senior. AP and Journal Sentinel / WBCA second team as a junior.
(Played four years at Marquette, helping MU return to NCAA Final Four in 2003. Diener broke his hand last week, ending his career at MU, where he now ranks third on the school’s all-time scoring list.)
THE FOURTH TEAM
JOHN KOTZ, 6-1, RHINELANDER
Played 1935-’39. Scored 1,180 points, including 467 as a senior. Led the state tournament with a record 64 points when his team won the title his senior year. "When he was at the tournament, I was there several years," said Horace Moran, former coach at Alma. "He was the first guy to come out with that one-hand shot. He didn’t jump, but he shot one-handed, flat-footed. I’d say he was (way ahead of his time). He was not nifty. He was a slam-banger around the basket." Four-time all-Wisconsin Valley Conference selection.
(Played one year in the National Basketball League. Played three years at Wisconsin and was a two-time all-Big Ten selection, including as a sophomore on a national championship team.)
BRIAN BUTCH, 6-11, APPLETON WEST
Played 1999-’03. Scored 1,461 points, including 623 as a senior. Played in the McDonald’s All-American Game. "There was a stretch where I thought Butch was right at the top of the list with the better players in the history of the state," said the late Steve Randall, former coach at Oshkosh West. "Defensively, he was average. But, offensively, he had a complete game. He finished well. He understood how to handle double and triple teams. His touch was very good. He was extremely quick following up missed shots." AP player of the year as a senior and junior; and Mr. Basketball as a senior. AP and Journal Sentinel / WBCA all-state as a senior and junior.
(Playing at Wisconsin.)
MAX WALKER, 6-1,
MILWAUKEE LINCOLN
Played 1959-’62. Scored 1,171 points, including 552 as a senior. Shared the state tournament scoring title with 86 points and scored 27 in the final game when his team won its second straight championship his senior year for a two-year record of 51-1. "He was so smooth," said Clyde Rusk, former coach at West Allis Hale. "He had a lot of basketball savvy. He just glided out there. He could score. He could dribble. He could pass." AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played three years at Indiana.)
RON DIBELIUS, 6-1, MENASHA ST. MARY
Played 1952-’56. Scored 1,769 points, including 631 as a senior. Played in the North-South All-Star Classic in Murray, Ky. "He was so far ahead in the game of basketball," said Don Gosz, a former high school teammate who later became an assistant coach at the University of Wisconsin. "He was so far advanced it was pathetic. Great hands. Could jump. Could shoot. He could do everything. As fine a high school player as I’ve seen come out of here and that includes anybody today." Three-time all-Fox Valley Catholic Conference selection.
(Played one year at Marquette, signed a pro baseball contract and played two more years at UW-Oshkosh.)
ROY BIRK, 6-1, WAUKESHA
Played 1958-’61. Scored 1,357 points, including 693 as a senior. His state tournament scoring record of 102 points in three games has stood for 43 years. "When people ask: ‘Who did you play against?’ He’s the first one to come to mind," said Jim Smallins, former coach at Milwaukee Lincoln. "He was a big-time scorer. But he passed and was considered an all-around player." AP and UPI all-state as a senior. AP third team as a junior.
THE FIFTH TEAM
TONY SMITH, 6-2,
WAUWATOSA EAST
Played 1983-’86. Scored 1,006 points, including 500 as a senior. "Just incredible," said Paul Krajewski, coach at Greendale. "The heart and soul of that team. Even though defenses were geared to him, he could still get it done. He did everything. They had a lob play for him. He could handle the ball, shoot it." AP and UPI all-state as a senior.
(Played eight years in the NBA. Played four years at Marquette and ranked fourth in all-time scoring.)
MICKEY CROWE, 6-5, ST. NAZIANZ JFK PREP
Played 1971-’75. Scored 2,724 points, including 1,001 as a senior. Scored 901 points as a junior. "He was a gunner, but he could do a lot of things when he put his mind to it," said Don LaViolette, former coach at De Pere Pennings. "In the system they used, Mickey would come down and shoot. That was it." AP and UPI all-state as a senior. AP third team and UPI second team as a junior. AP fourth team and UPI second team as a sophomore.
WAYNE KREKLOW, 6-4, NEENAH
Played 1972-’75. Scored 916 points, including 499 as a senior. Led the state tournament in scoring when his team won the title his senior year. "Handled the ball one-on-one," said Dick Emanuel, former coach at Appleton West. "He was one of the quickest big men that I’ve ever seen." UPI player of the year as a senior. AP and UPI all-state as a senior. UPI fifth team as a junior.
(Played one year in the NBA. Played four years at Drake and ranked sixth in all-time scoring.)
MARTY GHARRITY, 6-2, SHAWANO
Played 1956-’58. Scored 1,266 points, including 706 as a senior. Single-game state tournament scoring record of 44 points stood for 45 years. "He was virtually unstoppable," said Warren Otto, former coach at Two Rivers. "I would have to say his defense was a little suspect. He was all offense, no doubt about it. He was a shooter. If you played him tight, he’d fake and drive. (Sam) Cassell goes in there, pump fakes, then jumps into the guy. That was Gharrity’s move." AP all-state as a senior. AP second team as a junior.
(Played one year at Wisconsin and one year at Northern Michigan.)
BOB SULLIVAN, 6-3, MANITOWOC
Played 1962-’65. Scored 1,222 points, including 556 as a senior. John Wooden of UCLA personally recruited him to be a part of class that included Lew Alcindor, who later changed his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, but Sullivan chose Michigan, which was coming off back-to-back Final Four appearances. "He was as good as anybody at that time," said Clem Massey, former coach at Menasha. "He could shoot, hang in the air. Excellent passer." AP and UPI all-state as a senior and junior.
(Played three years at Michigan.)
-
Here's my question: how much did John Ellenson transferring affect SUPER FAN Tom Crean. The poor little guy was growing up in Michigan, writing in for his media guides, had to be a big blow.
I bet today was bittersweet for Tommy. May have brought back some tough memories.
-
I seem to always read Latrell Sprewell's name as one of the top high school players in Wisconsin history. Why is it that he's not listed on any of the top 5 teams?
-
And Wolf went to UNC where his brother went, his father didn't. Henry chose MU for all kinds of reasons, and I'm damn glad he did. Didn't hurt that his dad went to MU and still held it in high regard (he transferred because of a coaching change). Didn't hurt that this is considered arguably the best player in state history OTHER THAN JOE WOLF and maybe 2 or 3 others (NOT BRIAN BUTCH in that top 5). Didn't hurt that his brother is at MU, which is also a unique situation that Wojo had that no one else did. In the history of the MU program, only one other time has MU had two brothers play at the same school. As for this thread, apples to oranges comparison....which is what I stated.
This all makes sense but why explain it in a way that diminishes the accomplishment? Wojo got Wally, he quickly made a great connection with HE and the family that just wasn't there 9 months or a year ago. From what we know he wasnt lining up to come to MU for those reasons prior to those actions. Dude wants to be in the NBA and picked MU to get him there -- time to party and hope like hell he can make it happen as soon as possible so we get another one like him.
-
[quote author=ChicosBailBonds link=topic=44934.msg656058#msg656058 date=
Didn't hurt that his brother is at MU, which is also a unique situation that Wojo had that no one else did. In the history of the MU program, only one other time has MU had two brothers play at the same school.
[/quote]
Chicos--you have now referred to the signing of Wally (several times I might add) as a benefit that was provided to Wojo. That Wojo "has" HE's bro already in the program.
Guess who went and got WE?????
That's right.....Coach Wojo. Wojo was the one who orchestrated this signing. To suggest that Wojo already "had" WE so he had an advantage over your coach with respect to recruiting is good for your narrative only.
It was a great move by WOjo that has already paid dividends--don't disregard this as something given to Wojo cuz it wasn't.
-
I seem to always read Latrell Sprewell's name as one of the top high school players in Wisconsin history. Why is it that he's not listed on any of the top 5 teams?
I was a baby at the time but I remember hearing that he wasn't that great in high school. Actually went to a juco for two years before transferring to Alabama. I think he is still one of the highest career NBA scorers from Wisconsin.
-
Joe Wolf was considered a much better player than Brian Butch ever was. For Christ sake, Butch has to redshirt his freshman year. You continue to make the mistake year in and year out when you say the #15 guy one year is the same as the #15 guy from a different year. I don't know how many times we have to go through this, but each year is different and some years the classes are strong than other years. There has to be a #1, a #23, a #54, a #89 in each year, but that doesn't mean they compare in ability. #15 one year might be #40 in another year. Wolf > Butch...by a mile.
Sorry, I wasn't wrong....deal with it.
You said that Marquette had not recruited a guy RANKED as high as Henry Ellenson since Joe Wolf. You didn't say that Marquette hasn't recruited a player who, in your opinion or some Wisconsin media people's opinion was AS GOOD AS Henry since Joe Wolf.
Nit pick all you want about what years were better IN YOUR OPINION. It doesn't change the FACT that well after MU recruited Joe Wolf it recruited a guy whose RSCI RANKING was 7 (Brian Butch). Henry Ellenson's current RSCI RANKING is 10. A ranking of 7 is not only equal to a ranking of 10, it is higher than a ranking of 10. No opinion, just fact. Obvious to anyone capable of reading and understanding a definition in a dictionary. Oh, sorry, I forgot...you're not going to get this, are you?
-
i gotta say, threads that devolve into stupid old lady bickering are really tiresome. we get great news and this is the thread that keeps going. kinda pathetic.
-
i gotta say, threads that devolve into stupid old lady bickering are really tiresome. we get great news and this is the thread that keeps going. kinda pathetic.
This thread has now achieved Wade's World Corollary #2:
2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
-
i gotta say, threads that devolve into stupid old lady bickering are really tiresome. we get great news and this is the thread that keeps going. kinda pathetic.
Chico stated as fact something that was untrue. When the untruth was pointed out Chico wrote the equivalent of a master's thesis defending his untruth. What new?
-
Here's the thing. You wrote that Marquette had not recruited a guy ranked as high as Henry since Majerus recruited Joe Wolf. That's patently false. Long after we recruited Joe Wolf (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU) we recruited Brian Butch (whose Dad and brother didn't go to MU). So you were 100% wrong in your assertion.
Henry is currently ranked 4th in ESPN. Butch was tied for 7th in the RSCI.
Technically, that makes Chicos correct--just barely--in his assertion.
The other stuff, was this a unique situation, etc., sure. I never addressed that, I was correcting your mistake about our recruiting history. I don't know whether Henry's Dad enrolling in, becoming disenchanted with and eventually transferring from Marquette helped us or hurt us. Neither do you. But whether it did or not can't make joeWolf's recruitment come AFTER Brian Butch's. It would be like saying in 1980 that we hadn't been in a world war since World War I. Wrong.
Well maybe you SHOULD consider the other stuff--that might make for a more interesting discussion than you trying to nitpick on something that you were techically incorrect on.
The original post said Crean nor Buzz landed a player like Henry. Chico's point is arguably correct--neither had the chance at a player like Henry. Chico's opines that Butch isn't on par with Henry or Wolf. I happen to agree with him. What do you think?
-
Henry is currently ranked 4th in ESPN. Butch was tied for 7th in the RSCI.
Technically, that makes Chicos correct--just barely--in his assertion.
Henry may be 4th in ESPN but his composite on 247 is 10th and his Top247 is 19th. So as it stands now, Butch with a RSCI of 7 is higher that Henry's. I think I'm going to have to award this point to The Tap.
-
Henry is currently ranked 4th in ESPN. Butch was tied for 7th in the RSCI.
Technically, that makes Chicos correct--just barely--in his assertion.
You're comparing apples (one ranking service - ESPN) to oranges (the composite rankings - RSCI). Apples to apples, using composites and not one cherry picked service? Butch 7, Ellenson 10. So that makes Chico wrong. You, too. Thanks for stopping by.
-
You're comparing apples (one ranking service - ESPN) to oranges (the composite rankings - RSCI). Apples to apples, using composites and not one cherry picked service? Butch 7, Ellenson 10. So that makes Chico wrong. You, too. Thanks for stopping by.
Mr. Tap...DOIN' Work!
-
The original post said Crean nor Buzz landed a player like Henry. Chico's point is arguably correct--neither had the chance at a player like Henry. Chico's opines that Butch isn't on par with Henry or Wolf. I happen to agree with him. What do you think?
That part of the post I agree with. Hell, Butch (IMO) didn't TURN OUT to be on a par with a lot of guys (Wade, Diener, Novak, McNeal, DJ, Matthews, Hayward, DJO, JFB, Crowder and Vander, to name a few) who came to MU.
Of course that doesn't change the fact that Chico was technically, demonstrably, factually and unequivocally wrong about what I said he was wrong about. You can say that 2+2=5 in one part of a post and that 3+3 =6 in another part. The fact that 3+3=6 is correct doesn't make 2+2=5 also right.
-
doesn't make 2+2=5 also right.
well, what about Johnson measuring?
-
Hell, Butch (IMO) didn't TURN OUT to be on a par with a lot of guys (Wade, Diener, Novak, McNeal, DJ, Matthews, Hayward, DJO, JFB, Crowder and Vander, to name a few) who came to MU.
Had Brian Butch gone to Marquette instead of the roadkill to the west, we might have been a legitimate contender for a national championship. As I recall, most of the other pieces were in place at the time.
-
This thread has now achieved Wade's World Corollary #2:
2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
Exactly, and as I have stated before if chicos did not claim to be an MU fan and instead was a wisconsin fan he would have been banned long ago. However, due to his claim of being an MU fan, despite any real evidence, the moderators continue to allow him to make a mockery of the board. he is worse than any troll from another school, a wolf in sheep's clothing and it is allowed. he is a huge black eye for the entire board. Truly a great shame and I simply done understand why it is allowed.
-
Exactly, and as I have stated before if chicos did not claim to be an MU fan and instead was a wisconsin fan he would have been banned long ago. However, due to his claim of being an MU fan, despite any real evidence, the moderators continue to allow him to make a mockery of the board. he is worse than any troll from another school, a wolf in sheep's clothing and it is allowed. he is a huge black eye for the entire board. Truly a great shame and I simply done understand why it is allowed.
I found it ironic how you responded by essentially trolling. ..
-
This thread has now achieved Wade's World Corollary #2:
2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
Yes; however, this thread had no chance of going anywhere but there. Chicos just sped the process up a little bit by posting quite a bit in a short amount of time. That post was aimed more at threads that were meant to be about a legitimate topic that were then taken off topic by Chicos or Ners. But you are correct.
-
I found it ironic how you responded by essentially trolling. ..
actually it was an appeal to the mods
-
You're comparing apples (one ranking service - ESPN) to oranges (the composite rankings - RSCI). Apples to apples, using composites and not one cherry picked service? Butch 7, Ellenson 10. So that makes Chico wrong. You, too. Thanks for stopping by.
So is it okay for you to compare apples (Ellenson - pre-senior year ranking) to oranges (Butch - post senior ranking)? Is that what you're saying?
Of course that doesn't change the fact that Chico was technically, demonstrably, factually and unequivocally wrong about what I said he was wrong about. You can say that 2+2=5 in one part of a post and that 3+3 =6 in another part. The fact that 3+3=6 is correct doesn't make 2+2=5 also right.
And on what are you basing this particular conclusion? One of those apples to oranges comparison you're quick to call others out on?
For my view, I haven't seen anyone that would disagree with the argument (which is essentially what Chicos is making) that Ellenson is the best player from the state of Wisconsin since Joe Wolf.
The real question is that if Chicos hadn't weighed in here, would you be trying to make the argument that Butch was every bit the player that Wolf was (and Henry is)? Or are you only making it (based on your own apples-to-oranges comparison, BTW), because you want to make statments like "Chico was technically, demonstrably, factually and unequivocally wrong.
Put aside your historic animius toward chicos and answer this for me: What do you really think on the comparison? Do you agree with the sentimement of what Chicos posted that Ellenson is best player out of Wisconsin since Wolf? Or do you think Butch is the best player since Wolf?
That's a basketball discussion, not off topic, not focused on any one poster, and would be an interesting discussion.
-
Henry may be 4th in ESPN but his composite on 247 is 10th and his Top247 is 19th. So as it stands now, Butch with a RSCI of 7 is higher that Henry's. I think I'm going to have to award this point to The Tap.
And again, it means nothing.
#2 pick in the NFL draft Ryan Leaf
#2 pick in the NFL draft Calvin Johnson
Both are #2 picks....so they must be the same as they were the "second best player taken". It's absurd, which is what I've been telling Lenny for years.
Just because you have a RSCI rating of 10 in one year, and in another year someone has a RSCI of 8, that doesn't mean the kid with a #8 is better than than the kid with the #10. It means IN THAT GIVEN YEAR that kid was rated 8th, it has ZERO BEARING on any under year. NONE. NADA. It is a rating of other players of that year only. Some years the recruiting classes (or the draft classes in my example above) are much stronger than other years. A kid ranked 5th one year might only be 18th in another year.
Brian Butch has a RSCI at #7....no where on planet earth has he EVER been claimed to be potentially the best high school player in Wisconsin history. NOWHERE. NADA. NONE. Yet the #10 RSCI player THIS YEAR, has been given that attribution....but how is this possible? Easy, because classes are different year to year to year.
-
And again, it means nothing.
#2 pick in the NFL draft Ryan Leaf
#2 pick in the NFL draft Calvin Johnson
Both are #2 picks....so they must be the same as they were the "second best player taken". It's absurd, which is what I've been telling Lenny for years.
Just because you have a RSCI rating of 10 in one year, and in another year someone has a RSCI of 8, that doesn't mean the kid with a #8 is better than than the kid with the #10. It means IN THAT GIVEN YEAR that kid was rated 8th, it has ZERO BEARING on any under year. NONE. NADA. It is a rating of other players of that year only. Some years the recruiting classes (or the draft classes in my example above) are much stronger than other years. A kid ranked 5th one year might only be 18th in another year.
Brian Butch has a RSCI at #7....no where on planet earth has he EVER been claimed to be potentially the best high school player in Wisconsin history. NOWHERE. NADA. NONE. Yet the #10 RSCI player THIS YEAR, has been given that attribution....but how is this possible? Easy, because classes are different year to year to year.
Who's annointing him the best WI basketball player ever?
-
And again, it means nothing.
#2 pick in the NFL draft Ryan Leaf
#2 pick in the NFL draft Calvin Johnson
Both are #2 picks....so they must be the same as they were the "second best player taken". It's absurd, which is what I've been telling Lenny for years.
Just because you have a RSCI rating of 10 in one year, and in another year someone has a RSCI of 8, that doesn't mean the kid with a #8 is better than than the kid with the #10. It means IN THAT GIVEN YEAR that kid was rated 8th, it has ZERO BEARING on any under year. NONE. NADA. It is a rating of other players of that year only. Some years the recruiting classes (or the draft classes in my example above) are much stronger than other years. A kid ranked 5th one year might only be 18th in another year.
Brian Butch has a RSCI at #7....no where on planet earth has he EVER been claimed to be potentially the best high school player in Wisconsin history. NOWHERE. NADA. NONE. Yet the #10 RSCI player THIS YEAR, has been given that attribution....but how is this possible? Easy, because classes are different year to year to year.
Suppose a team is RANKED 10th today. And suppose that team had been RANKED 7th in 2003 and RANKED 8th in 1983. Would it be correct to say that the team today was higher ranked than it had been since 1983? Of course not. It would be wrong on the facts. It might be the BEST team since 1983. Maybe 2003 was a down year. That's certainly an argument one could make. But that's not what you wrote. What you wrote was indisputably wrong on the facts. Period. This has been a rough couple of days for you. Take a breath, admit your mistake. Move on. You'll feel better.
-
Let's use an even more appropriate example...RSCI.
RSCI #7 2005. Richard Hendrix.
vs
RSCI #7 2001. Julius Hodge
RSCI # 7 1999. Brett Nelson
vs.
RSCI # 7 2000. Chris Duhon
So on and so forth. All #7 RSCI....are they all of equal talent? Of course not, but same RSCI rating. Brian Butch in the same breath as Ellenson is laughable if the recruiting gurus and HS experts in the state of Wisconsin are to be believed.
-
What was Looney's final ranking? He was playing ball in Wisco last year and seems like people have already forgotten him already. I'm pretty sure he was top 10 and possibly the best player since Wolf.
-
What was Looney's final ranking? He was playing ball in Wisco last year and seems like people have already forgotten him already. I'm pretty sure he was top 10 and possibly the best player since Wolf.
Good catch, but more importantly, did Looney's Dad play at and have a brother enrolled at Marquette?
I keed, I keed.
Sorry, after reading the whole thread, I couldn't resist. FWIW, I'm with Tap on this one.
-
What was Looney's final ranking? He was playing ball in Wisco last year and seems like people have already forgotten him already. I'm pretty sure he was top 10 and possibly the best player since Wolf.
Y'all will remember him when his name is called in June, hey?
-
Let's use an even more appropriate example...RSCI.
RSCI #7 2005. Richard Hendrix.
vs
RSCI #7 2001. Julius Hodge
RSCI # 7 1999. Brett Nelson
vs.
RSCI # 7 2000. Chris Duhon
So on and so forth. All #7 RSCI....are they all of equal talent? Of course not, but same RSCI rating. Brian Butch in the same breath as Ellenson is laughable if the recruiting gurus and HS experts in the state of Wisconsin are to be believed.
This has nothing to do with it and you know it. Dwyane Wade wasn't in the top 100 in 2000 and was better than every one of the guys ahead of him. But being better than them didn't mean he was RANKED ahead of them. You were wrong, you are wrong, everyone who understands 7 is a lower number than 10 knows you're wrong. I'm not going to let this become another 30+ page shrine to your stubbornness. Over and out.
-
This thread has now achieved Wade's World Corollary #2:
2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
I didn't take it off thread at all. The opening post was about what was going on through their minds and could they have gotten this kid. The reality is, opportunity was never there, circumstances not there, etc, etc. Never in the history of those two coaches being at MU was a kid like Ellenson available where his dad went to MU, his brother transferred to MU, etc.
I'm sorry you can't connect the dots, but that's your problem. The rest of your stuff is just hyperbole....your basically calling Dwyane Wade a liar, which I don't care to do. If you wish to, knock your socks off.
-
This has nothing to do with it and you know it. Dwyane Wade wasn't in the top 100 in 2000 and was better than every one of the guys ahead of him. But being better than them didn't mean he was RANKED ahead of them. You were wrong, you are wrong, everyone who understands 7 is a lower number than 10 knows you're wrong. I'm not going to let this become another 30+ page shrine to your stubbornness. Over and out.
YOU WERE the one that used the RSCI rankings and continue to try to make one year's ranking the equivalency of a ranking in a completely different year. You are absolutely, 100% wrong in that ascertion. There is zero basis for your thinking. None. You've been given many examples, all of which prove how wrong your are, yet it is YOU who is stubborn and refuses to acknowledge it. I've shown you other #7's in the RSCI that don't compare at all year over year.....using YOUR data source....yet you still won't admit you are wrong. Hell, I can show you #1's in the RSCI in one year that aren't good as #10's in another year, proves exactly my point again. Everyone does understand 7 is lower than 10....yet in the irony of all ironies, you use Dwyane Wade in this very thread and say he wasn't even ranked in the RSCI yet better than all the cats ahead of him. But wait, if everyone understands 7 is lower than 10 and thus, "better", then certainly "everyone understands 1 is better than outside the top 100, 2 is better than outside the top 100, 3 is better than outside the top 100, 4 is better than outside the top 100, 5, 6, 7, 8, 15, 27, 42, 66, 89 are all better than outside the top 100." BUT WAIT, now we have to throw that all away in your logic train for the Dwyane Wade example and say not only ignore your examples 7 is better than 10, but ignore numbers 1 through 100 because none of them are better than Wade and was ranked outside the top 100. AWESOME. Truly. Awesome.
So to summarize, we're supposed to believe your precious RSCI ratings that Brian Butch at #7, despite NEVER by ANY expert in the state being mentioned as one of the greatest high school basketball players in Wisconsin history is as good or BETTER than Ellenson because Ellenson is RSCI 10 in a totally different year, in a stronger class, etc, and believed to be the best player in the state since Joe Wolf.....the same Butch that was so great he had to redshirt....at the same time you want to flip that logic completely upside down and also say Dwyane Wade was better than EVERYONE ranked ahead of him, which means he should have been ranked #1. Awesome.
Let me know when you want to step on the logic train, because you are so dead and buried on this one it is funny. Keep digging that hole. Oh, and in the greatest irony of all, you are slamming a certain coach for not getting a great recruit like Butch yet you just told us that Wade was ranked ahead of everyone on the list...so that would mean he got a #1 recruit. Incredible.
Game. Set. Match. Drive safely home tonight.
-
I didn't take it off thread at all. The opening post was about what was going on through their minds and could they have gotten this kid. The reality is, opportunity was never there, circumstances not there, etc, etc. Never in the history of those two coaches being at MU was a kid like Ellenson available where his dad went to MU, his brother transferred to MU, etc.
I'm sorry you can't connect the dots, but that's your problem. The rest of your stuff is just hyperbole....your basically calling Dwyane Wade a liar, which I don't care to do. If you wish to, knock your socks off.
In all fairness Wojo created the transfer circumstance and Its not like Henry's dad hadn't gone to MU when Buzz was here. I mean you can argue on the crean side all you want I didn't even know I was going to MU when he was here but the bottom line is this is the same henry ellenson that Buzz failed at recruiting with the same circumstances etc.
-
Butch was #7 RSCI.
Nice to see Chico's still doing his best to play down the accomplishments of any Marquette coach not named Tom.
If you bothered to pay attention, I'm actually showing how this recruit is one of the best players ever in the history of the state of Wisconsin, so I don't know what you're talking about. How is saying Wojo got arguably the best player in state history since Joe Wolf a slam against a MU coach....please, I'd like to hear this.
All I said was the opportunity to land a kid in the same situation was not there for Buzz and TC, because never had either of those coaches had a player who's dad went to MU, who's brother is at MU, and also a kid that was this good (way better than Butch). But hey, let me now how I'm slamming Wojo....should be good.
-
This all makes sense but why explain it in a way that diminishes the accomplishment? Wojo got Wally, he quickly made a great connection with HE and the family that just wasn't there 9 months or a year ago. From what we know he wasnt lining up to come to MU for those reasons prior to those actions. Dude wants to be in the NBA and picked MU to get him there -- time to party and hope like hell he can make it happen as soon as possible so we get another one like him.
I didn't. It doesn't diminish it all, it just brings more clarity. I was answering the OP and some of the other posts. Timing is everything. Should we have started a thread that said "what's going on through KO and Mike Deane's minds right now" when we landed Wade or DJ, or Wes? Or what's going on through TC and MD's head when we landed Junior Cadougan? Opportunity, luck, relationship, scenario, great recruiting, timing....so many things go into it. Comparing one to another...silly. No different than the Shaka slams. If Shaka was the MU coach, could he have recruited Ellenson? Who knows...maybe no but we get Stone. Nobody knows, nobody.
-
Suppose a team is RANKED 10th today. And suppose that team had been RANKED 7th in 2003 and RANKED 8th in 1983. Would it be correct to say that the team today was higher ranked than it had been since 1983? Of course not. It would be wrong on the facts. It might be the BEST team since 1983. Maybe 2003 was a down year. That's certainly an argument one could make. But that's not what you wrote. What you wrote was indisputably wrong on the facts. Period. This has been a rough couple of days for you. Take a breath, admit your mistake. Move on. You'll feel better.
Not your best effort, in fact terrible.
That's not your argument....your argument was to make an equivalency that Butch was an equal or better player than Hank based on his RSCI ranking. It's ironic that in this post you actually acknowledge that the 1983 team might be the best team, why you couldn't come to that same logic in the RSCI is a question only you can answer.
That was my entire point, Butch isn't on the same page as Ellenson and that's what I said...not ranked as high as anyone since Joe Wolf. Then you started down the false premise of using the RSCI system, which I've shown you time and again how flawed that can be.
Show me one expert that believes Butch was as highly rated as Ellenson....player to player comparison....not a ranking in one year compared to a ranking of a different player in a different year...as you point out above, the 1983 team might be better....which is EXACTLY what I'm saying.
-
Exactly, and as I have stated before if chicos did not claim to be an MU fan and instead was a wisconsin fan he would have been banned long ago. However, due to his claim of being an MU fan, despite any real evidence, the moderators continue to allow him to make a mockery of the board. he is worse than any troll from another school, a wolf in sheep's clothing and it is allowed. he is a huge black eye for the entire board. Truly a great shame and I simply done understand why it is allowed.
Angus, I've been a diehard MU fan for decades. To suggest anything otherwise is ridiculous. Come to my office sometime and tell me I'm not a MU fan. LOL
-
YOU WERE the one that used the RSCI rankings and continue to try to make one year's ranking the equivalency of a ranking in a completely different year. You are absolutely, 100% wrong in that ascertion. There is zero basis for your thinking. None. You've been given many examples, all of which prove how wrong your are, yet it is YOU who is stubborn and refuses to acknowledge it. I've shown you other #7's in the RSCI that don't compare at all year over year.....using YOUR data source....yet you still won't admit you are wrong. Hell, I can show you #1's in the RSCI in one year that aren't good as #10's in another year, proves exactly my point again. Everyone does understand 7 is lower than 10....yet in the irony of all ironies, you use Dwyane Wade in this very thread and say he wasn't even ranked in the RSCI yet better than all the cats ahead of him. But wait, if everyone understands 7 is lower than 10 and thus, "better", then certainly "everyone understands 1 is better than outside the top 100, 2 is better than outside the top 100, 3 is better than outside the top 100, 4 is better than outside the top 100, 5, 6, 7, 8, 15, 27, 42, 66, 89 are all better than outside the top 100." BUT WAIT, now we have to throw that all away in your logic train for the Dwyane Wade example and say not only ignore your examples 7 is better than 10, but ignore numbers 1 through 100 because none of them are better than Wade and was ranked outside the top 100. AWESOME. Truly. Awesome.
So to summarize, we're supposed to believe your precious RSCI ratings that Brian Butch at #7, despite NEVER by ANY expert in the state being mentioned as one of the greatest high school basketball players in Wisconsin history is as good or BETTER than Ellenson because Ellenson is RSCI 10 in a totally different year, in a stronger class, etc, and believed to be the best player in the state since Joe Wolf.....the same Butch that was so great he had to redshirt....at the same time you want to flip that logic completely upside down and also say Dwyane Wade was better than EVERYONE ranked ahead of him, which means he should have been ranked #1. Awesome.
Let me know when you want to step on the logic train, because you are so dead and buried on this one it is funny. Keep digging that hole. Oh, and in the greatest irony of all, you are slamming a certain coach for not getting a great recruit like Butch yet you just told us that Wade was ranked ahead of everyone on the list...so that would mean he got a #1 recruit. Incredible.
Game. Set. Match. Drive safely home tonight.
You cannot possibly be this dense. Fighting and losing logic wars with countless posters on several fronts all at the same time has left you obviously unhinged. I'm genuinely starting to worry about you. I'm putting you on ignore because I don't want to be responsible for your current melt down. This looks like the big one.
-
Man these threads are cringeworthy sometimes. You all need to remember we all cheer for the same team and things are finally looking up again. relax guys.
-
Who's annointing him the best WI basketball player ever?
Several media writers in the state, a number of fans that have been around the state for decades are making the comparisons, so on and so forth. That was my point when I said there hasn't been someone this highly ranked or rated since Joe Wolf....because there hasn't. In a crazy twist, there are two guys in the same year...Stone and Henry that fit that bill.
Michael Hunt is the latest (I know...Mike Hunt), but there are others opining the same type of platitudes the last few months: “He might be the best basketball player to ever come out of Wisconsin, going back to Joe Wolf and, later, Latrell Sprewell. At almost 6-11, Ellenson handles the ball like a point guard and shoots the three like a two guard. He is freakishly quick defensively. You can’t guard him with a big man because he’ll take him outside and shoot. A smaller, quicker defender is going to get posted up.”
-
You cannot possibly be this dense. Fighting and losing logic wars with countless posters on several fronts all at the same time has left you obviously unhinged. I'm genuinely starting to worry about you. I'm putting you on ignore because I don't want to be responsible for your current melt down. This looks like the big one.
I think Lenny and Chicos should have their own reality tv show...maybe handcuff them to each other and let the cameras follow them around lol. I know I would watch!!
-
I think Lenny and Chicos should have their own reality tv show...maybe handcuff them to each other and let the cameras follow them around lol. I know I would watch!!
Only if I'm not handcuffed to the chair with my eyes pried open. I want the option to get off this wild ride.
-
That's not your argument....your argument was to make an equivalency that Butch was an equal or better player than Hank based on his RSCI ranking.
Sorry, before I leave you to all the others here whose scorn you've earned, a reply to this lie. My argument was never and has never been that Butch was a better than or equal PLAYER to Henry. Nowhere will you find that in anything that I've said.
I only corrected your misstatement that MU had not recruited someone RANKED as high as Henry (#10 RSCI) since 1983. We recruited a guy ranked #7 RSCI in 2003. As Lens and everybody else here not your auditor agree, that makes you wrong. Good night and (seriously) good luck.
-
I seem to always read Latrell Sprewell's name as one of the top high school players in Wisconsin history. Why is it that he's not listed on any of the top 5 teams?
Sprewell only played one year of high school basketball in the state at Washington High School. It was his first year of organized hoops. That's why no one really recruited him and he went Juco.
-
Y'all will remember him when his name is called in June, hey?
"Dentist to the Stars", on the shingle out front, Doc?
-
Y'all will remember him when his name is called in June, hey?
What year? 2015? One major service has him going in the first round in 2015. Another major service has him not drafted at all in 2015. The one that doesn't have him going in 2015, has him going in the mid first round in 2016....9 spots after some kid named Henry Ellenson. :D
-
What year? 2015? One major service has him going in the first round in 2015. Another major service has him not drafted at all in 2015. The one that doesn't have him going in 2015, has him going in the mid first round in 2016....9 spots after some kid named Henry Ellenson. :D
But you said we shouldn't be excited about Ellenson
-
You all need to remember we all cheer for the same team
.......and Indiana........and Kansas.
-
I didn't take it off thread at all. The opening post was about what was going on through their minds and could they have gotten this kid. The reality is, opportunity was never there, circumstances not there, etc, etc. Never in the history of those two coaches being at MU was a kid like Ellenson available where his dad went to MU, his brother transferred to MU, etc.
I'm sorry you can't connect the dots, but that's your problem. The rest of your stuff is just hyperbole....your basically calling Dwyane Wade a liar, which I don't care to do. If you wish to, knock your socks off.
I wish it were my stuff, but credit where credit is due--wade's world came up with this highly accurate description.
Look at this thread --page after page of you trying to change the argument all because Lenny pointed out a simple factual error. You forgot Brian Butch.
Here is your original statement: "The last time a kid ranked this highly was from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf." Note particularly the word "ranked". Lenny correctly pointed out Butch was ranked higher than Ellenson. Factually, quantitatively, 7 is lower than 10. However, there was NO WAY the Chico's ego was going to let himself to be corrected, especially by Lenny, so you made believe the argument was about the subjective quality of various recruits.
And that's how we end up with page after page of you trying to twist the argument, simply because you can't admit that you made a simple factual error. Wade's World Corollary #2 is dead on.
-
They've both failed to attract a recruit like this to our university and Buzz when so far to say he ran the numbers and saw that it wouldn't be possible for us to land a recruit like henry and be successful. Meanwhile Wojo comes in and knocks it out of the park. Thoughts on what's going through their minds?
Maybe it's been commented already, but both are totally consumed with their own program as every head guy in D-1 is. They don't obsess the way some do here about them, much less care one iota anymore about MU basketball. MU provided the boost to their careers they needed, and they've both moved on, dollars to donuts that's both of their mindsets.
-
.......and Indiana........and Kansas.
...and Purdue.
-
I wish it were my stuff, but credit where credit is due--wade's world came up with this highly accurate description.
Look at this thread --page after page of you trying to change the argument all because Lenny pointed out a simple factual error. You forgot Brian Butch.
Here is your original statement: "The last time a kid ranked this highly was from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf." Note particularly the word "ranked". Lenny correctly pointed out Butch was ranked higher than Ellenson. Factually, quantitatively, 7 is lower than 10. However, there was NO WAY the Chico's ego was going to let himself to be corrected, especially by Lenny, so you made believe the argument was about the subjective quality of various recruits.
And that's how we end up with page after page of you trying to twist the argument, simply because you can't admit that you made a simple factual error. Wade's World Corollary #2 is dead on.
Spot on! Game, set and match to Mr. Tap.
-
What year? 2015? One major service has him going in the first round in 2015. Another major service has him not drafted at all in 2015. The one that doesn't have him going in 2015, has him going in the mid first round in 2016....9 spots after some kid named Henry Ellenson. :D
I can't speak for the major services. However, I do know, for a fact, that the goal is to be one and done. Now, the stars all have to align. Most importantly, Kevon has to remain healthy and stay on the court. Had a minor back issue this summer related to liftin'. I'm figurin' Bruin fans will get to enjoy #5 for just this one season.
-
To answer the question directly:
Buzz: "How in the heck am I going to sell that large home in Milwaukee and how much of a haircut am I going to have to take to move it?" Or, "You mean I have to play Louisville, Syracuse, North Carolina, Duke, Pittsburgh and Virginia….?????"
Crean: "Unless I find a five-star quick, I may not have a job next year!"
Sorry folks, I don't think either one of them are giving Marquette more than a passing thought!
-
I wish it were my stuff, but credit where credit is due--wade's world came up with this highly accurate description.
Look at this thread --page after page of you trying to change the argument all because Lenny pointed out a simple factual error. You forgot Brian Butch.
Here is your original statement: "The last time a kid ranked this highly was from the state was Majerus going after Joe Wolf." Note particularly the word "ranked". Lenny correctly pointed out Butch was ranked higher than Ellenson. Factually, quantitatively, 7 is lower than 10. However, there was NO WAY the Chico's ego was going to let himself to be corrected, especially by Lenny, so you made believe the argument was about the subjective quality of various recruits.
And that's how we end up with page after page of you trying to twist the argument, simply because you can't admit that you made a simple factual error. Wade's World Corollary #2 is dead on.
"Sorry, I was wrong," is not something I have ever read Chicos say. So either he is never wrong or he will never admit to being wrong. I'll leave it to others to decide which is more plausible.
-
"Sorry, I was wrong," is not something I have ever read Chicos say. So either he is never wrong or he will never admit to being wrong. I'll leave it to others to decide which is more plausible.
MU82, I admitted I was wrong just a few days ago ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44697.msg654400#msg654400 ) and have a number of times before here....when I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it and never have. I can pull up apologies going back to the first year on this board or some only a few weeks old...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41809.msg563426#msg563426
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44373.msg636849#msg636849
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42054.msg570399#msg570399
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40270.msg527863#msg527863
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40261.msg524731#msg524731
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36489.msg469500#msg469500
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=18267.msg183516#msg183516
Etc, etc. Kind of strange for you to say I never say it, especially with how often your respond to me.
Now, can you admit you are wrong in admitting it....an apology would be great.....tsk tsk. You must have me confused with Lenny....do a search of him where he has admitted to being wrong here....interesting search results.
In this case, I am not wrong so I'm not going to admit it. Butch isn't remotely in the class of Ellenson and I've given multiple examples how flawed his RSCI usage is. The "rankings" aren't even finalized yet if he wants to go by that source....so if he wants to pump his chest in 7 months when the final "rankings" come out, fine.
Point is and shall remain, we as a basketball program have not had the opportunity to recruit in an-state recruit like this since Joe Wolf....ask those that have followed Wisconsin high school basketball for decades and no one RANKS as highly as Hank since Joe Wolf. NO ONE, certainly not Brian Butch who had to redshirt his first year and was pedestrian until his final two years. NO ONE RANKS CLOSE.
-
...and Purdue.
Blasphemy.....but don't forget Wisconsin, you know because River Rat \ Canadian Dimes \ Cloud Piercer \ Ahoya Ballscout \ Angus Insurance Guy \ Blackswan says so
-
But you said we shouldn't be excited about Ellenson
I did....show me where I said that......
crickets chirping...I think I should start a thread "what's going on in Bagpiping's mind". LOL. I said it's fine to get excited, which is nothing close to "shouldn't be excited about Ellenson". My point is people get TOO excited, put too many expectations on some of these kids and make it impossible for them live up to the Jesus walks on water expectations.
-
I can't speak for the major services. However, I do know, for a fact, that the goal is to be one and done. Now, the stars all have to align. Most importantly, Kevon has to remain healthy and stay on the court. Had a minor back issue this summer related to liftin'. I'm figurin' Bruin fans will get to enjoy #5 for just this one season.
Doc, it's funny how many casual Bruin fans out here have no idea who he even is. They don't even talk about him. I sense that he's going to play well and all of a sudden they're going to be like, "who is this hidden gem". They're so used to getting top talent it's a yawn for most of them, and if the kid is from some obscure place like Wisconsin, might as well be from Bangladesh. Just the odd mentality out here, but it is what it is. Hope it works out well for the young man.
-
What year? 2015? One major service has him going in the first round in 2015. Another major service has him not drafted at all in 2015. The one that doesn't have him going in 2015, has him going in the mid first round in 2016....9 spots after some kid named Henry Ellenson. :D
"major service" lol
:D
-
MU82, I admitted I was wrong just a few days ago ( http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44697.msg654400#msg654400 ) and have a number of times before here....when I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it and never have. I can pull up apologies going back to the first year on this board or some only a few weeks old...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41809.msg563426#msg563426
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44373.msg636849#msg636849
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42054.msg570399#msg570399
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40270.msg527863#msg527863
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40261.msg524731#msg524731
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36489.msg469500#msg469500
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=18267.msg183516#msg183516
Etc, etc. Kind of strange for you to say I never say it, especially with how often your respond to me.
Now, can you admit you are wrong in admitting it....an apology would be great.....tsk tsk. You must have me confused with Lenny....do a search of him where he has admitted to being wrong here....interesting search results.
Fair enough.
I am married, and therefore am wrong multiple times every day! And it would seem I was wrong here, too.
I happen to think you're wrong on this whole issue, but you are allowed to think you're right.
And no, I'm not going to go back and look at Lenny's record. My time is too valuable. I have to go and do something important now, like see how much lint I have in my belly-button.
-
I used Joe Wolf as the anchor comparison for a reason...he is considered the best high school player in Wisconsin history....that is why I used in, that is why I said no one ranked this highly since Joe Wolf.
Maybe Lenny or a few othes that have yet to process this distinction can give me Joe Wolf's RSCI ranking.
LOL.
Of course it doesn't exist, which is also why I linked the top players of all time in the state.
There has been no one ranked this highly since Joe Wolf that we have gone after...sorry that hurts you guys, but that is 100% accurate. If you want to produce a ranking that compares players across years or even provide a RSCI ranking for Hjoe Wolf, I'm all ears.
-
Fair enough.
I am married, and therefore am wrong multiple times every day! And it would seem I was wrong here, too.
I happen to think you're wrong on this whole issue, but you are allowed to think you're right.
And no, I'm not going to go back and look at Lenny's record. My time is too valuable. I have to go and do something important now, like see how much lint I have in my belly-button.
Thank you.
I would get the memory checked, you are in some of the very threads where I have apologized...I want to make sure you are taking care of yourself.
Yes, marriage teaches one to admit one's errors, sometimes when you haven't committed any. Speaking of which, off to a concert with the Mrs. so I need to run....fairly early flight tomorrow too.
-
Buzz and Crean left for greener pastures but Wojo just proved with this awesome recruiting class that MU is just as good as any place to recruit and build a great BB program.
-
Buzz and Crean left for greener pastures but Wojo just proved with this awesome recruiting class that MU is just as good as any place to recruit and build a great BB program.
Tanned Tommy and Bert are full of sh1t.
-
I did....show me where I said that......
crickets chirping...I think I should start a thread "what's going on in Bagpiping's mind". LOL. I said it's fine to get excited, which is nothing close to "shouldn't be excited about Ellenson". My point is people get TOO excited, put too many expectations on some of these kids and make it impossible for them live up to the Jesus walks on water expectations.
Wow chicos I thought that didn't need teal but apparently you're so high strung that a slightly sarcastic comment sets you off? Is this like 2nd grade? Come on man.
-
Wow chicos I thought that didn't need teal but apparently you're so high strung that a slightly sarcastic comment sets you off? Is this like 2nd grade? Come on man.
That's going to be my comeback moving forward....I guess I needed to use teal. Love that one. ;)
Maybe you need to work on your sarcasm.... smooch
-
They've both failed to attract a recruit like this to our university and Buzz when so far to say he ran the numbers and saw that it wouldn't be possible for us to land a recruit like henry and be successful. Meanwhile Wojo comes in and knocks it out of the park. Thoughts on what's going through their minds?
How many opportunities did either Buzz or Crean have to even offer a 5-star player from Wisconsin? Throw in the fact the HE's brother and friend were already in the program and its a perfect storm for Wojo.
If HE lived in Kentucky and his friend and brother were goin to UK, do you think Wojo would even bother recruiting him? Doubt it.
Crean and Buzz have jobs to do. It's tough to be successful at anything if you always look in the rearview mirror and second guess yourself. I don't think head coaches practice that; they would never make it very far.
-
How many opportunities did either Buzz or Crean have to even offer a 5-star player from Wisconsin? Throw in the fact the HE's brother and friend were already in the program and its a perfect storm for Wojo.
If HE lived in Kentucky and his friend and brother were goin to UK, do you think Wojo would even bother recruiting him? Doubt it.
Crean and Buzz have jobs to do. It's tough to be successful at anything if you always look in the rearview mirror and second guess yourself. I don't think head coaches practice that; they would never make it very far.
Keep in mind that Wojo put Wally in the program. It was his doing. It was not an independent gift given to Wojo by others.
-
That's going to be my comeback moving forward....I guess I needed to use teal. Love that one. ;)
Maybe you need to work on your sarcasm.... smooch
Have you love your mind? You kinda sound crazy in this post. Also saying smooch to a man? Isn't that like against all your beliefs!
-
This thread has now achieved Wade's World Corollary #2:
2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
Lenny is just as bad. Chicos could give him a Million bucks and he'd piss all over it. I get tired of Chicos sometimes too, but there are plenty of reactionaries who multiply the size of the pile.
-
Have you love your mind? You kinda sound crazy in this post. Also saying smooch to a man? Isn't that like against all your beliefs!
-
Joe Wolf is not the greatest player in state history, though he is probably in the top five. Here are several who were better:
1. Downtown Freddie Brown
2. John Johnson
3. Jim Chones--best ever in my opinion
4. Don Kojis
-
Joe Wolf is not the greatest player in state history, though he is probably in the top five. Here are several who were better:
1. Downtown Freddie Brown
2. John Johnson
3. Jim Chones--best ever in my opinion
4. Don Kojis
All of which proceeded Joe Wolf. I believe I said "since Joe Wolf". Pinning down who is the best, that's always going to be a subjective opinion, but I would agree with you that he is in the top 5, however it shakes out. Brian Butch, isn't in the top 20.
-
Why would it be against my beliefs? I'm a loving dude...two dudes want to kiss, doesn't bother me. Cue up the coach and his son kiss picture, Keefe.
Crazy in this post? Nope. Hank is the highest ranked \ rated \ regarded\ fill in the blank player since Joe Wolf. The thread was dumb....who started it? ;)
Smooch.
I like this. You should end all your posts this way.
-
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhAD4G5Lz64J_fTFKn5jtOzcWZRLohecOx9u4tYVoEN5EHm3y5)