MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NersEllenson on September 22, 2014, 10:35:02 PM
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Thought this would be an interesting topic to debate. I left out Carlino and Burton - because I think everyone expects pretty good performance out of them. Left Cohen and Fischer out due to no MU experience to go off - though the same can be said about Duane Wilson - he has been in the program now for over a year...and entered the program with pretty high expectations.
I'm really excited to see how this year plays out. Think actually all of the guys in this poll have the ability to exceed general expectations we all might have for them...yet which guy will exceed expectations the most?
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put derrick wilson just because I knew itd tick you off lol
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Let's see.. how can we spin this...
If people pick Derrick, it's obviously because everyone acknowledges that he was terrible and he can't get any worse.
If no one picks Derrick, it's obviously because everyone knows he sucks and will be the player he always has been.
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Derrick Wilson, no doubt.
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Jjj
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I don't know this Steve guy. Did you perhaps mean Teve? Cause Teve is gonna have a monster year.
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I don't know this Steve guy. Did you perhaps mean Teve? Cause Teve is gonna have a monster year.
Dark horse for meme of the year.
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I think it's going to be Steve Teve Taylor. He'll have a lot of minute opportunity, and also think he's got a chip on his shoulder from last season's mindf$ck Buzz gave him.
Think Steve could be a 10ppg and 8rpg kind of player this year.
Looks like a lot are either sleeping on Dawson, or already expect good things from him. I couldn't vote for JD, as I expect he'll have a nice year - so it wouldn't come as a surprise.
I look forward to seeing what JJJ can do with good minute opportunity as well. Lots of talent there.
I also expect Juan and Derrick to be better than they were last year - with both being used in roles that best fit what they bring to the table: Hustle, energy, hard nosed players off the bench come conference play.
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I trust BigDaddy when he says "Steve (Teve) is about to paint his masterpiece." I also think JJJ has the talent to surprise a lot of people.
Personally, I hope all of the surprise me (in a good way)
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STJ. He showed flashes as a freshman and I think was hurting for a good portion of last year. He will get plenty of playing time to prove himself this year.
I also think Juan is going to impress simply because expectations are low. I don't expect him to be a huge statistics guy, but I think could fill the Trent Lockett role on this team. Experienced senior, good attitude, who will also get the playing time.
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STJ is the guy I have the highest hopes for compared to his MU accomplishments, so I answered him. I just have the feeling that he is going to be really good, but I don't have a lot to back that up with.
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Looks like a lot are either sleeping on Dawson, or already expect good things from him. I couldn't vote for JD, as I expect he'll have a nice year - so it wouldn't come as a surprise.
Wait ... you like Dawson? I never knew that!
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I voted with the idea that it was the biggest surpise to us collectively. I am sure there are several people here who think Taylor, JJJ, Dawson or Anderson are going to have a big step up in their games or that Duane will have a very good year. There are very few here that even think Derrick will even see significant playing time. Therefore the answer has to be Derrick, if his game improves.
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STJ. He showed flashes as a freshman and I think was hurting for a good portion of last year. He will get plenty of playing time to prove himself this year.
I also think Juan is going to impress simply because expectations are low. I don't expect him to be a huge statistics guy, but I think could fill the Trent Lockett role on this team. Experienced senior, good attitude, who will also get the playing time.
Agreed. I voted Juan for the exact reasons you list above. Due to the lack of size we will have, he will get some good minutes, and I just think he is ready to become a steady contributor. Not going to fill up the stat sheet, but be solid.
I didn't vote Steve mainly because I think there is a general consensus that he will be a high contributor. I would not be surprised to see him be a high performer this year.
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I believe that Duane Wilson is about to set the world on fire.
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I think it's going to be Steve Teve Taylor. He'll have a lot of minute opportunity, and also think he's got a chip on his shoulder from last season's mindf$ck Buzz gave him.
Think Steve could be a 10ppg and 8rpg kind of player this year.
Looks like a lot are either sleeping on Dawson, or already expect good things from him. I couldn't vote for JD, as I expect he'll have a nice year - so it wouldn't come as a surprise.
I look forward to seeing what JJJ can do with good minute opportunity as well. Lots of talent there.
I also expect Juan and Derrick to be better than they were last year - with both being used in roles that best fit what they bring to the table: Hustle, energy, hard nosed players off the bench come conference play.
Django Teve Unchained!
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I voted Juan because no one expects anything out of him, but there were a couple games against cupcakes last year where it looked like things were finally clicking for him. He was all over the court making an impact everywhere. Then he came down weird on his ankle in one of those games and he didn't look the same after. Combine that with the ususal senior performance bump and I think he'll outperform his relatively low expectations more than anyone else.
EDITED TO CLARIFY:
I expect big things out of Duane, JJJ, Steve, and Dawson this year. My expectations are low/muted for Juan and Derrick, so to surprise on the upside, all Juan has to do is be a solid 15 minute role player. I think he can achieve that if healthy.
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I believe that Duane Wilson is about to set the world on fire.
This sort of reminds me about the rumors a year ago of the MU recruit who allegedly set some girl's hair on fire. Wow!
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I voted Triple J merely because we really haven't heard much about him this off season. There are posts here from time to time saying one player or another has looked good in workouts or that someone has taken 20,000 shots over the summer, but there hasn't really been much of anything said about Triple J.
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I voted Triple J merely because we really haven't heard much about him this off season. There are posts here from time to time saying one player or another has looked good in workouts or that someone has taken 20,000 shots over the summer, but there hasn't really been much of anything said about Triple J.
J cubed.
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Luke ... because if he is a surprise player, he will be the biggest on the roster!
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Or similar to last season, everyone will underachieve (more or less) and we will struggle to break 0.500.
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J cubed.
Tre J
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I voted Juan because no one expects anything out of him, but there were a couple games against cupcakes last year where it looked like things were finally clicking for him. He was all over the court making an impact everywhere. Then he came down weird on his ankle in one of those games and he didn't look the same after. Combine that with the ususal senior performance bump and I think he'll outperform his relatively low expectations more than anyone else.
EDITED TO CLARIFY:
I expect big things out of Duane, JJJ, Steve, and Dawson this year. My expectations are low/muted for Juan and Derrick, so to surprise on the upside, all Juan has to do is be a solid 15 minute role player. I think he can achieve that if healthy.
I also voted Juan for similar reasons. He's a guy that I think could benefit from the skills-focused offseason work. I think his confidence in his outside shot gradually eroded under Buzz to the extent that he almost looked afraid to shoot last year. Being able to shoot at range at his height is an advantage, and could open up some space, allowing him to drive and pass, which he was expected to be able to do coming out of high school.
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Taylor or JJJ? Taylor or JJJ? I overcame my first inclination for Steve, and went with JJJ. So much talent, so little used last year. (Both of them, really).
#3? Hologram Al who will show up for the Villanova game to shut down Ryan Arcidiacono, just like he used to shut down Bob Cousy!
"He's a hologram Ryan, just dribble through him!" Says an exasperated Jay Wright.
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It could be any of about three guys who were shicecanned by the Hillbilly last year: JJJ, Taylor, Du. Wilson.
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Or similar to last season, everyone will underachieve (more or less) and we will struggle to break 0.500.
I still tend to believe last year's poor performance was the result of awful coaching, more than it was actual underachievement from the players at the individual level. Almost nobody had a defined/predictable role. There was no method to the madness.
I feel that for as disappointing as last year was, this year's team has a good chance to surprise all of us on the positive (as much as last year's team disappointed to the negative.) I see a 20 win team, that gets better and really gelling by mid February...and make some noise in Big East tourney...which I think will be enough to get the team in NCAA.
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It could be any of about three guys who were shicecanned by the Hillbilly last year: JJJ, Taylor, Du. Wilson.
I looked up the word shicecanned on google, wondering if it was just something I had never heard of. Your last post was LITERALLY the only result. I don't think that has ever happened to me before. Well done sir
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It could be any of about three guys who were shicecanned by the Hillbilly last year: JJJ, Taylor, Du. Wilson.
Damn that Buzz...getting Taylor and Duane hurt and all!!!
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I am convinced with proper playing time and rotations JJJ will set the world on fire this year. I like the spirit he brings and I think he creates a lot of things with his anticipation on defense.
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I hope you're right. I love pyromaniacs.
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I looked up the word shicecanned on google, wondering if it was just something I had never heard of. Your last post was LITERALLY the only result. I don't think that has ever happened to me before. Well done sir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlewhack
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I still tend to believe last year's poor performance was the result of awful coaching, more than it was actual underachievement from the players at the individual level. Almost nobody had a defined/predictable role. There was no method to the madness.
I feel that for as disappointing as last year was, this year's team has a good chance to surprise all of us on the positive (as much as last year's team disappointed to the negative.) I see a 20 win team, that gets better and really gelling by mid February...and make some noise in Big East tourney...which I think will be enough to get the team in NCAA.
Completely agree.
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I looked up the word shicecanned on google, wondering if it was just something I had never heard of. Your last post was LITERALLY the only result. I don't think that has ever happened to me before. Well done sir
Here you go TAMU. Always looking to provide educational tutorials to those involved in collegiate education.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shice
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Damn that Buzz...getting Taylor and Duane hurt and all!!!
Still like the Ostrich with the head in the sand. We could have Duane for the second half but he was forced to redshirt, so Buzz could play his butt boy, the elite one.
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Still like the Ostrich with the head in the sand. We could have Duane for the second half but he was forced to redshirt, so Buzz could play his butt boy, the elite one.
You won't be complaining when Duane is here in four years.
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You won't be complaining when Duane is here in four years.
Man, you holier than thou guys never quit. If we had him for the second half of last year, we could have won a few more games. Of course, that is speculation, just as your comment is. The point is, your boy Buzz was a douche, which you will never acknowledge. In fact, I'm guessing you have VT's basketball page on you favorites.
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I still tend to believe last year's poor performance was the result of awful coaching, more than it was actual underachievement from the players at the individual level. Almost nobody had a defined/predictable role. There was no method to the madness.
I feel that for as disappointing as last year was, this year's team has a good chance to surprise all of us on the positive (as much as last year's team disappointed to the negative.) I see a 20 win team, that gets better and really gelling by mid February...and make some noise in Big East tourney...which I think will be enough to get the team in NCAA.
I'll have what your drinkin'!
(http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/22200000/Kool-Aid-Berry-Blue-whatever-happened-to-22273009-349-500.jpg)
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Man, you holier than thou guys never quit. If we had him for the second half of last year, we could have won a few more games. Of course, that is speculation, just as your comment is. The point is, your boy Buzz was a douche, which you will never acknowledge. In fact, I'm guessing you have VT's basketball page on you favorites.
Wow.
If Duane had not redshirted, Buzz would still have to play him. Who knows how many minutes a recovering from injured Duane would have received last year between him, Derrick, and John. On top of that, what would the difference have been? A few more wins? Like 3? So we go to maybe a NIT team???
I'll take the full extra year of Duane Wilson than maybe making the NIT.
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Wow.
If Duane had not redshirted, Buzz would still have to play him. Who knows how many minutes a recovering from injured Duane would have received last year between him, Derrick, and John. On top of that, what would the difference have been? A few more wins? Like 3? So we go to maybe a NIT team???
I'll take the full extra year of Duane Wilson than maybe making the NIT.
He is a hell of a lot better than the elite one, and would have helped last year, but El Stubborn one was the hold back. But continue to thank Buzz for that bold move, if that is your pleasure.
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Wow.
If Duane had not redshirted, Buzz would still have to play him. Who knows how many minutes a recovering from injured Duane would have received last year between him, Derrick, and John. On top of that, what would the difference have been? A few more wins? Like 3? So we go to maybe a NIT team???
I'll take the full extra year of Duane Wilson than maybe making the NIT.
I thought going in to last season that Duane would be the starting PG. If he had been healthy ALL YEAR, the overall arc of the year might have been different. But I completely get why Buzz suggested that he red-shirt. I also think this, as well as Buzz's suggestions to STjr and McKay that they redshirt, is evidence that Buzz has not checked out on MU until after the season.
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I thought going in to last season that Duane would be the starting PG. If he had been healthy ALL YEAR, the overall arc of the year might have been different. But I completely get why Buzz suggested that he red-shirt. I also think this, as well as Buzz's suggestions to STjr and McKay that they redshirt, is evidence that Buzz has not checked out on MU until after the season.
Buzz checked out roughly early January. Once he won the power struggle with Larry, but then realized that he wasn't going to get his way on everything he wanted from Cords/Wild - his way of handling it was to essentially pout. On top of that the first whispers of criticism from our fanbase arrived in Mid December/early January, and that got through his thin skin. The irony of Buzz was that he preached and preached and preached about toughness and character, yet in the end showed he wasn't very tough (in the way of having a thick skin), nor did he have a lot of character in that at the first sign of adversity, he bailed.
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Man, you holier than thou guys never quit. If we had him for the second half of last year, we could have won a few more games. Of course, that is speculation, just as your comment is. The point is, your boy Buzz was a douche, which you will never acknowledge. In fact, I'm guessing you have VT's basketball page on you favorites.
And if we hadn't wasted Junior's freshman season, we would have had him last season and would have won even more games. Coach's jobs are to think about what's best for the program long term, not just immediate fixes.
And no, I don't have VT basketball on my favorites. I have no link to the VT program. I bet you do. Gotta check up on your boy. The fact that you are still hung up on him is only feeding his ego.
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You won't be complaining when Duane is here in four years.
Oh yes he will.
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He is a hell of a lot better than the elite one, and would have helped last year, but El Stubborn one was the hold back. But continue to thank Buzz for that bold move, if that is your pleasure.
Yeah, please find where I have supported Buzz's moves at the PG position from last year.
Is Duane a "hell of a lot better"??? I think so, I would hope so, but I haven't seen him play one second of college bball. Again, I'll take a whole extra year of Duane Wilson playing point than him playing limited minutes for half a season and maybe making the NIT.
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Yeah, please find where I have supported Buzz's moves at the PG position from last year.
Is Duane a "hell of a lot better"??? I think so, I would hope so, but I haven't seen him play one second of college bball. Again, I'll take a whole extra year of Duane Wilson playing point than him playing limited minutes for half a season and maybe making the NIT.
OK. Now we all need to cue up for the argument that Buzz knew best because he saw these guys everyday in practice; also for In Buzz we trust; and the hackneyed argument that Buzz played the best players to win. All tried and true defenses that we all saw how they worked out last year.
In Buzz we trusted.
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Amazing that the slurpers still defend the stubborn downhome lonesome phony cowboy. Could some of these been regulars at the Blue and Gold Williams mansion?
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Amazing that the slurpers still defend the stubborn downhome lonesome phony cowboy. Could some of these been regulars at the Blue and Gold Williams mansion?
So in your opinion, was Junior's freshman year well spent after he didn't take a redshirt? Was it worth not having him last season? Because I think many would agree that if we had Junior last year, we might have been a tournament team.
There are many solid criticisms of Buzz. Benching JJJ/Taylor, overusing Derrick, taking Burton out in the Xavier game, the alleged sexual assualts, the McIlvaine interview, the DJ Newbill situation, his alleged refusal to flush his own dookies. Redshirtting Duane is not one of them. I'm gonna be ecstatic that he is suiting up for us in the 17-18 season. I think you will be too, if you look at it objectively. If things shake out with Henry (and he doesn't go pro) that starting lineup will be Noskowiak, Duane, Cohen, Levin, and Henry all as upperclassmen. With Cheathem, Heldt, Flory and whatever 2016 and 2017 kids we scrounge up coming off the bench. That is a final four caliber team right there. Isn't that more important than making the NIT last season?
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Still like the Ostrich with the head in the sand. We could have Duane for the second half but he was forced to redshirt, so Buzz could play his butt boy, the elite one.
Buzz didn't force Duane to redshirt. And honestly, I bet Duane is happy that he redshirted at this point.
And why don't you go take another sabbatical from here and head on over to the VPI boards? You don't talk about anything else besides Buzz - even in a thread about the 2014-15 team. You can share all of your wisdom and your obsessions about him there. I am sure they would appreciate them as much as we do.
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The poll might of left out the biggest surprise player. I am assuming, like probably most of you, that Cohen is not going to play much this year. I only saw him play once and my opinion was that he needed to add bulk and strength. However, the one pro am I went to this year he showed up late and missed the first quarter. He came in in the second quarter, started slow and then finished the second quarter with 16 points. I do not think he did much the rest of that game. However, if he fits in and quickly learns Wojo's system he could be the surprise player.
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So in your opinion, was Junior's freshman year well spent after he didn't take a redshirt? Was it worth not having him last season? Because I think many would agree that if we had Junior last year, we might have been a tournament team.
There are many solid criticisms of Buzz. Benching JJJ/Taylor, overusing Derrick, taking Burton out in the Xavier game, the alleged sexual assualts, the McIlvaine interview, the DJ Newbill situation, his alleged refusal to flush his own dookies. Redshirtting Duane is not one of them. I'm gonna be ecstatic that he is suiting up for us in the 17-18 season. I think you will be too, if you look at it objectively. If things shake out with Henry (and he doesn't go pro) that starting lineup will be Noskowiak, Duane, Cohen, Levin, and Henry all as upperclassmen. With Cheathem, Heldt, Flory and whatever 2016 and 2017 kids we scrounge up coming off the bench. That is a final four caliber team right there. Isn't that more important than making the NIT last season?
TAMU, TAMU, TAMU ... using facts and logic to combat Joyless Willie. When will you every learn?
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So in your opinion, was Junior's freshman year well spent after he didn't take a redshirt? Was it worth not having him last season? Because I think many would agree that if we had Junior last year, we might have been a tournament team.
On the other hand, the extra work he put in to get back into the lineup his freshman year might have made him a more effective player next season and beyond than he otherwise would have been.
Plus, you have to base the redshirt argument on a foundation that the coach is incapable of recruiting an equivalent or better player before the added year four years hence. For example, in order to argue that it was wise to redshirt Duane in 2014 so he'll still be available in 2018-19, it presupposes that Buzz (or Wojo) could not possibly recruit an equal or better player between now and then.
If you have faith that Wojo is capable of landing an equal or better player by 2018, then it was a mistake by Buzz to redshirt Duane in 2014 because he probably could have helped us win last year, and won't give us anything in 2018 that we won't otherwise achieve.
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nothing wrong with good depth at the point, esp. if 1 is a senior and say the other a soph
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On the other hand, the extra work he put in to get back into the lineup his freshman year might have made him a more effective player next season and beyond than he otherwise would have been.
Plus, you have to base the redshirt argument on a foundation that the coach is incapable of recruiting an equivalent or better player before the added year four years hence. For example, in order to argue that it was wise to redshirt Duane in 2014 so he'll still be available in 2018-19, it presupposes that Buzz (or Wojo) could not possibly recruit an equal or better player between now and then.
If you have faith that Wojo is capable of landing an equal or better player by 2018, then it was a mistake by Buzz to redshirt Duane in 2014 because he probably could have helped us win last year, and won't give us anything in 2018 that we won't otherwise achieve.
Thats a good thought that I had not considered.
But on that note, would the other player that would then be recruited be better as a 4 year senior vs Duane as a 5 year senior with the extra year of work? I'm throwing out the year that Duane would be gone vs the year this "other recruit" would be there just as it may not be a fair comparison from a development standpoint.
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On the other hand, the extra work he put in to get back into the lineup his freshman year might have made him a more effective player next season and beyond than he otherwise would have been.
Plus, you have to base the redshirt argument on a foundation that the coach is incapable of recruiting an equivalent or better player before the added year four years hence. For example, in order to argue that it was wise to redshirt Duane in 2014 so he'll still be available in 2018-19, it presupposes that Buzz (or Wojo) could not possibly recruit an equal or better player between now and then.
If you have faith that Wojo is capable of landing an equal or better player by 2018, then it was a mistake by Buzz to redshirt Duane in 2014 because he probably could have helped us win last year, and won't give us anything in 2018 that we won't otherwise achieve.
The assumption behind this is that Duane could have been a contributor toward the end of last year. Was he healthy enough to break into the rotation? Was he good enough at that point? We don't really know.
For instance, the value we could have gotten with an extra year of Junior Cadougan IMO was greater than the very little experience he gained by played toward the end of his freshman year. I don't think we would have wanted a repeat of that.