MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChuckyChip on September 19, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
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Announced today -
http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/lovell-announces-marquette-campus-expansion-new-initiatives-b99355025z1-275827401.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/lovell-announces-marquette-campus-expansion-new-initiatives-b99355025z1-275827401.html)
Combining pomp and circumstance with a PowerPoint presentation, Marquette University President Michael Lovell used his inaugural ceremony address Friday to set a dramatic course for the school that includes reaching out to neighbors, forging new partnerships and adding property for future growth.
Near the end of the speech, Lovell announced that Marquette University had purchased about 7 acres in the 800 block of W. Michigan St.
Calling the deal a "once a generation opportunity" for Marquette and Milwaukee, Lovell detailed how the property expands the school's footprint to the east.
"We look forward to working with the campus community in the coming months to develop the best uses for the land," Lovell said during the event at the Al McGuire Center.
Lovell, the first lay president in the Jesuit school's 133-year history, offered a blueprint that tied together many of the diverse strands of his career, as both an engineer and past chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
He announced Marquette will move into the sixth floor of the $22 million Global Water Center in the Fifth Ward, joining other universities and water-related companies at the research facility. Opened in September 2013, the center is where water-related academic research and industry research and development can come together. UWM occupies an entire floor of the building.
Lovell said Marquette is exploring options for a presence at the Innovation Campus in Wauwatosa, the public-private research park he championed while at UWM. Marquette will also launch a joint bioengineering department with the Medical College of Wisconsin, Lovell said.
Lovell revealed several major donations that will drive work in the humanities and in business.
He announced a planned gift to create a future Center for Advancement of the Humanities. The multimillion dollar commitment from an unnamed donor was made by a Marquette alumna who is a research scholar. Lovell said the center will help establish Marquette as a leading humanities institution in the Midwest.
Lovell also revealed a $5 million strategic innovation fund. Among those who donated to the project are the Kern Family Foundation and Donna O'Rourke, whose late husband, Jerry, was a longtime Marquette trustee.
The strategic innovation fund was described as being similar to a venture capital fund, providing seed money to students, faculty and staff to kick-start projects. Proposals will be reviewed in the spring with funding beginning July 1, 2015.
Lovell also announced a neighborhood partnership on safety. Lovell said he and Harley-Davidson CEO Keith Wandell will partner with "neighborhood anchor institutions" in a safety initiative in the Avenues West neighborhood. The aim isn't just to make the neighborhood safer, Lovell said, but to have it become a destination for visitors.
"It's a step in the right direction," said Keith Stanley, executive director of the Avenues West Business Improvement District, which includes the Marquette campus.
"If you talk to any of our businesses — the ones that have been around for a couple decades —things are always getting better," Stanley said. "We see momentum."
Safety is a key concern on the Marquette campus.
Marquette's Department of Public Safety already has texted and emailed five public safety alerts to students, faculty and staff since Aug. 23, the weekend before classes started. Two of the alerts were sent last weekend. The alerts described a total of five robberies, three of them armed.
Legislation signed into law last spring will help clear the way for Marquette to create its own police department with private university officers who have the same powers as City of Milwaukee police to enforce the law, as well as Marquette rules.
To establish the department, Marquette would still need to reach an agreement with Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen. That agreement also would be subject to review by the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission.
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I believe that this is the large, mostly cleared site immediately south of Straz Hall, that was made available due to the rebuild of the Marquette Interchange. Looks like a great opportunity for campus.
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I believe that this is the large, mostly cleared site immediately south of Straz Hall, that was made available due to the rebuild of the Marquette Interchange. Looks like a great opportunity for campus.
I'm hoping it's the lot SE of Straz near Butch's. Much better land.
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I'm hoping it's the lot SE of Straz near Butch's. Much better land.
It sounds like it includes that as well.
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increased enrollment?
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Future home of the field house for soccer and lacrosse!?!?!
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Rebirth of the Lanche?
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This parcel?
(see pic)
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I believe that this is the large, mostly cleared site immediately south of Straz Hall, that was made available due to the rebuild of the Marquette Interchange. Looks like a great opportunity for campus.
Had me confused for a moment. I think you mean Straz Tower, better known to us older folks as East Hall, the YMCA, etc.
Straz Hall = college of bidness.
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New basketball only dorms. Ellenson Hall.
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Had me confused for a moment. I think you mean Straz Tower, better known to us older folks as East Hall, the YMCA, etc.
Straz Hall = college of bidness.
Um, no, I think you are referring to the Y and the Business Building.
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The Duke of the Midwest, hey?
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That's a nice piece of land for Marquette signage.
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New basketball only dorms. Ellenson Hall.
You just launched a groundbreaking recruiting tactic.
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Had me confused for a moment. I think you mean Straz Tower, better known to us older folks as East Hall, the YMCA, etc.
Straz Hall = college of bidness.
It was still East Hall when I started at Marquette. That's why I got myself confused.
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It will be a while before they develop the new land on Michigan. The construction of the new Jes Res near Schroeder (in SHAMU) has begun, and there are plans for a new dorm across 13th from Schroeder (using the land that is currently a big field and the parking lot for the Al. Anything on the other side of the highway has to be further down the list
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Um, no, I think you are referring to the Y and the Business Building.
Umm, no. I don't know what you're actually trying to say, but it's wrong.
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Umm, no. I don't know what you're actually trying to say, but it's wrong.
You be right, hoss, and she's usually very accurate, very succinct. Surprising.
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It will be a while before they develop the new land on Michigan. The construction of the new Jes Res near Schroeder (in SHAMU) has begun, and there are plans for a new dorm across 13th from Schroeder (using the land that is currently a big field and the parking lot for the Al. Anything on the other side of the highway has to be further down the list
Actually, east expansion has been a top priority of the Architect and University for a long time. This parcel has been targeted since the Interchange construction began. MU wants another flagship building surrounding the Interchange that will rival Eckstein.
A communications-heavy, but multi-use building were the targets were floated, but finding the namesake donor for such a building hasn't panned out.
Last I heard they want to acquire that whole block and vacant the city road for a larger development. The 13th street dorm has been dead in the water for a awhile now, greenspace is a top priority near dorms for the Architect.
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You be right, hoss, and she's usually very accurate, very succinct. Surprising.
Apparently, my joke failed. My point was before they were East Hall and Straz Hall they were the Y and the Business Building.
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Yeah, F*ckin' used to have lunch at the Y.
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This is as good a topic as any to remember that the universe of students/families that can afford (or are simply willing) to pay tuition that increases at 4-7% a year is dropping to zero in the long run.
MU shouldn't expand. They should find ways to educate for less or their long term future (and all private schools) is doomed.
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This is as good a topic as any to remember that the universe of students/families that can afford (or are simply willing) to pay tuition that increases at 4-7% a year is dropping to zero in the long run.
MU shouldn't expand. They should find ways to educate for less or their long term future (and all private schools) is doomed.
The difference in pay for college graduates vs. non-college graduate is growing as well.
An investment in your own education is compelling if you're intelligent and interested in a worthwhile field of study. Risk vs. reward remains an obvious great deal for capable individuals.
Unfortunately, more and more will select the govt handouts and cause a real* problem for college grads - high taxes on their well earned pay.
Expand and be great, MU!
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The difference in pay for college graduates vs. non-college graduate is growing as well.
An investment in your own education is compelling if you're intelligent and interested in a worthwhile field of study. Risk vs. reward remains an obvious great deal for capable individuals.
Unfortunately, more and more will select the govt handouts and cause a real* problem for college grads - high taxes on their well earned pay.
Expand and be great, MU!
Yup, and the difference in pay for Private college grads vs public grads is an even bigger disparity. I get where Hilltopper is going, but I think his comments are more applicable to private schools that don't cut it. This is why, in my opinion, MU has to do everything they can to justify the expense, not have a race to the bottom. If you can provide value, if your graduates are successful and have high earning potential, then bright students will pay the cost to attend because the ROI makes sense. Right now, I'd call MU's ROI a wash, they need to do better and the time is now. For those private schools that are equally expensive, but not churning out productive graduates, the justification to attend those schools (lower ranked, poor earners, etc) is a reality that future students can't ignore.
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Students demand both lower tuition and better facilities/programs/faculty. Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation
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Yup, and the different in pay for Private college grads vs public grads is even bigger disparity. I get where Hilltopper is going, but I think his comments are more applicable to private schools that don't cut it. This is why, in my opinion, MU has to do everything they can to justify the expense, not have a race to the bottom. If you can provide value, if your graduates are successful and have high earning potential, then bright students will pay the cost to attend because the ROI makes sense. Right now, I'd call MU's ROI a wash, they need to do better and the time is now. For those private schools that are equally expensive, but not churning out productive graduates, the justification to attend those schools (lower ranked, poor earners, etc) is a reality that future students can't ignore.
Agreed. As competition gets more fierce for students, the University must continue to improve infrastructure as well as academics. Standing still is not an option.
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Students demand both lower tuition and better facilities/programs/faculty. Kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation
Yup, like many goods and services today. We've corrupted an entire generation into thinking that stuff should be free or pennies on the dollar. Good stuff costs real money. You want a good education, with quality professors and facilities, etc, it costs lots of money.
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Yup, like many goods and services today. We've corrupted an entire generation into thinking that stuff should be free or pennies on the dollar. Good stuff costs real money. You want a good education, with quality professors and facilities, etc, it costs lots of money.
Sometimes I really appreciate your input on topics. Sometimes I can't stand it.
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This is as good a topic as any to remember that the universe of students/families that can afford (or are simply willing) to pay tuition that increases at 4-7% a year is dropping to zero in the long run.
MU shouldn't expand. They should find ways to educate for less or their long term future (and all private schools) is doomed.
He should have said something about increasing the endowment. It is the only way to support the shiny new things and the students.
I thought that this was going to be a major goal in the near future but haven't heard anything about it.
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He should have said something about increasing the endowment. It is the only way to support the shiny new things and the students.
I thought that this was going to be a major goal in the near future but haven't heard anything about it.
I agree it is vital to get the endowment up significantly. My guess is that they will announce a big capital campaign soon.
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Sometimes I really appreciate your input on topics. Sometimes I can't stand it.
The feeling is mutual, I assure you....that goes for everyone.
There are volumes and volumes of literature on this stuff in B School and in case studies. The science of consumer behavior.
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I agree it is vital to get the endowment up significantly. My guess is that they will announce a big capital campaign soon.
They have to. Probably with a relatively straightforward blueprint for both infrastructure upgrades and long term endowment.
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Yup, and the difference in pay for Private college grads vs public grads is an even bigger disparity. I get where Hilltopper is going, but I think his comments are more applicable to private schools that don't cut it. This is why, in my opinion, MU has to do everything they can to justify the expense, not have a race to the bottom. If you can provide value, if your graduates are successful and have high earning potential, then bright students will pay the cost to attend because the ROI makes sense. Right now, I'd call MU's ROI a wash, they need to do better and the time is now. For those private schools that are equally expensive, but not churning out productive graduates, the justification to attend those schools (lower ranked, poor earners, etc) is a reality that future students can't ignore.
Precisely.
Hilltopper is making a political post without making it obvious to all. Sneaky.
For an intelligent, hardworking kid with an interest in a relevant field, opportunities are excellent today. Price tag may appear high, but the value is compelling.
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If you are green, you are growing. Lovell has set a growth agenda from the get go, but also is locking onto these innovation partnerships around town in order to share costs. According to MU's Financial Statements, MU brought in contributions receivables of $81,498M in 2010 and $83,519M in Fr. Wild's last year. Enter Pilarz and the contributions receivables went down to $78,895M in 2012 and $62,897M in 2013 (and the stock market rocketed up).
How does one make up for the drop-off in contributions when one fails in leadership? Raise tuition, with gross tuition rising from $306,018M in Wild's last year to $337,783M in Pilarz's Year 2. Fact is, tuition control goes with growth by keeping tuition in line by insisting that a sizeable part of endowment and incubation revenue go toward financial aid.
If anyone still thinks the Pilarz regime's problems were all on Buzz Williams, keep drinking. Nero was fiddling while Rome was burning.
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Pillarz was a horrible hire. Hired only because he wears a collar. Glad MU moved beyond that and hired the best qualified individual this time.
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Hilltopper is making a political post without making it obvious to all. Sneaky.
What was political about his post?
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If you are green, you are growing. Lovell has set a growth agenda from the get go, but also is locking onto these innovation partnerships around town in order to share costs. According to MU's Financial Statements, MU brought in contributions receivables of $81,498M in 2010 and $83,519M in Fr. Wild's last year. Enter Pilarz and the contributions receivables went down to $78,895M in 2012 and $62,897M in 2013 (and the stock market rocketed up).
How does one make up for the drop-off in contributions when one fails in leadership? Raise tuition, with gross tuition rising from $306,018M in Wild's last year to $337,783M in Pilarz's Year 2. Fact is, tuition control goes with growth by keeping tuition in line by insisting that a sizeable part of endowment and incubation revenue go toward financial aid.
If anyone still thinks the Pilarz regime's problems were all on Buzz Williams, keep drinking. Nero was fiddling while Rome was burning.
Wow. Just wow. I didn't know any of that. I'm very thankful that we now have Lovell. He seems to be the real deal.
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If you are green, you are growing. Lovell has set a growth agenda from the get go, but also is locking onto these innovation partnerships around town in order to share costs. According to MU's Financial Statements, MU brought in contributions receivables of $81,498M in 2010 and $83,519M in Fr. Wild's last year. Enter Pilarz and the contributions receivables went down to $78,895M in 2012 and $62,897M in 2013 (and the stock market rocketed up).
How does one make up for the drop-off in contributions when one fails in leadership? Raise tuition, with gross tuition rising from $306,018M in Wild's last year to $337,783M in Pilarz's Year 2. Fact is, tuition control goes with growth by keeping tuition in line by insisting that a sizeable part of endowment and incubation revenue go toward financial aid.
This is all bad info, IMO, and now we've got GoldenWarrior on the post above believing it. This can happen when a lay person gets a hold of financial statements.
You don't "bring in contributions receivable" in a given year. This is a presentation of contributions receivable in the future at a given point in time. The origin of the contribution varies and these amounts are discounted (and estimated uncollectible accounts are reserved for).
In other words, you have not presented contributions in the given years. Those figures shown something similar, though not as significant (from 2010 to 2013): $57.6MM, $54.0MM, $42.7MM, $43.9MM (yes, an increase in 2012-13).
However, contributions at MU are relatively small compared to the overall operations of the organization. And, they are often driven by specific projects/programs and a select few individuals who decide to generously give a large amount. (Think back to say.. 2008 as an example.. with the law school, engineering, etc... big numbers.) In addition, fundraising success may be visually difficult to see if pulling numbers from financial statements due to accounting rules.
Anyway, I disagree with your summary (not necessarily the message you're trying to send).
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I'd point you to other things such as...
Gross tuition 2010 to 2013... increased 16.8%... BUT, net tuition... just 11.4%.
Over that same period, OPERATING EXPENSES rose 11.4%. (e.g., net tuition and operating expenses have moved in line with each other).
2013 vs. 2012... net tuition up 1.5% while operating expenses rose almost double that. Salaries & bene's up 3.5% in 2012-13 vs. 2011-12.
Let's get more research & grant funding...
Cost increases are real. Be prudent about expenses, but you can't over-squeeze.
Fortunately I think back-to-back NCAA championships will do a lot for the Quette $$$$$$$$$$$$
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If anyone still thinks the Pilarz regime's problems were all on Buzz Williams, keep drinking. Nero was fiddling while Rome was burning.
Nero was probably drinking while Rome was burning.
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As you point out, there are different ways to report or interpret financial reports...however, Marquette chooses "Contributions Receivable" which is the term I precisely stated without getting into 50 lines of technocratic terms. Similarly, "gross tuition" represents revenue without the level of discounted revenue (listed separately)...meaning richer students paying full price are paying more than their share of scholarship money, a sign of true financial health of what an institutional n can charge. Thus, these were reported and treated equally all years for comparison purposes.
Feel free to debate KMPG. I think we both agree that MU was trending significantly down in donations, while costs were high, and tuition hikes and staff cuts had to be enacted, interpretations aside.
http://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/reports.shtml
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As you point out, there are different ways to report or interpret financial reports...however, Marquette chooses "Contributions Receivable" which is the term I precisely stated without getting into 50 lines of technocratic terms. Similarly, "gross tuition" represents revenue without the level of discounted revenue (listed separately)...meaning richer students paying full price are paying more than their share of scholarship money, a sign of true financial health of what an institutional n can charge. Thus, these were reported and treated equally all years for comparison purposes.
Feel free to debate KMPG. I think we both agree that MU was trending significantly down in donations, while costs were high, and tuition hikes and staff cuts had to be enacted, interpretations aside.
http://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/reports.shtml
Sigh... to be clear, I'm saying i don't believe what a contribution receivable is. Has nothing to do with the annual report or the auditors.
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Sigh... to be clear, I'm saying i don't believe what a contribution receivable is. Has nothing to do with the annual report or the auditors.
Regardless of how one looks at the numbers, the new President will be better for fundraising and it is imperative that MU does that.
There endowment right now of $450-460M is absurd for a University of its size and mission…it should be around $1B or larger.
That is going to be a big challenge for Lovell.
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Precisely.
Hilltopper is making a political post without making it obvious to all. Sneaky.
For an intelligent, hardworking kid with an interest in a relevant field, opportunities are excellent today. Price tag may appear high, but the value is compelling.
Honestly, don't see anything political about it at all. I think he's correct in one sense. Many private schools charge a lot of money but the ROI isn't there. Those schools are in deep crap which is what I think he was saying. Where I would disagree with him is that I don't think MU has to be in that boat. We're a top 80 school today, if the school can get to a top 50 marker, people will pay for the degree. That's where you and I are aligned. Not everyone agrees. I recall Sultan or someone not wanting MU to push for that status, maybe a few others.
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Honestly, don't see anything political about it at all. I think he's correct in one sense. Many private schools charge a lot of money but the ROI isn't there. Those schools are in deep crap which is what I think he was saying. Where I would disagree with him is that I don't think MU has to be in that boat. We're a top 80 school today, if the school can get to a top 50 marker, people will pay for the degree. That's where you and I are aligned. Not everyone agrees. I recall Sultan or someone not wanting MU to push for that status, maybe a few others.
Some of the threads in the Superbar were talking about the rankings. I want MU to get into the top 50, top 25, whatever. But I don't want them to be gaming the system like Northeastern did. Getting improved rankings through "squirmy" methods isn't my preferred approach
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Nero was fiddling while Rome was burning.
Actually he wasn't. See the September 2014 edition of National Geographic.
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Um, no, I think you are referring to the Y and the Business Building.
+1
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For an intelligent, hardworking kid with an interest in a relevant field, opportunities are excellent today. Price tag may appear high, but the value is compelling.
I chose between Marquette and UW in 1978. My Dad thought I was crazy because he had limited $$ to contribute. ( I am the oldest of 6). I chose Marquette and loved every minute of my overall experience.
I paid most of my own way and I borrowed the max. Paid that bill into my mid 30s. Worth every dime I invested. Overall, the Jesuit experience is incredible. There is just no way I could pull that off now.
I encourage every smart kid I know to apply to Marquette and tell them not to look at the retail price, wait until you see what they offer.
1) With a delta of about $30K (retail) per year, many don't even apply.
2) MU drags their feet with financial aid offers, so that these kids need to commit before MU lets them know where they stand. I know that in many cases MU is waiting for more highly ranked admits to commit, but still.
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Some of the threads in the Superbar were talking about the rankings. I want MU to get into the top 50, top 25, whatever. But I don't want them to be gaming the system like Northeastern did. Getting improved rankings through "squirmy" methods isn't my preferred approach
To the "perception is reality" crew gaming the system is what it's all about.
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Yup, like many goods and services today. We've corrupted an entire generation into thinking that stuff should be free or pennies on the dollar. Good stuff costs real money. You want a good education, with quality professors and facilities, etc, it costs lots of money.
The average student debt upon graduation in 1980 was $3,100. Today it's over $28,000. I understand why students want "stuff" for cheaper.
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The average student debt upon graduation in 1980 was $3,100. Today it's over $28,000. I understand why students want "stuff" for cheaper.
Students can want whatever they want.
Employers still have expectations for the individuals they're hiring. A 4-year degree from a reputable institution is one of those things.
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Some of the threads in the Superbar were talking about the rankings. I want MU to get into the top 50, top 25, whatever. But I don't want them to be gaming the system like Northeastern did. Getting improved rankings through "squirmy" methods isn't my preferred approach
Agree, though I thought I also read that pushing to achieve that status would change our mission and leave out kids we normally let in. I have a few on ignore over there so it could have been what I read from someone quoting them.
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The average student debt upon graduation in 1980 was $3,100. Today it's over $28,000. I understand why students want "stuff" for cheaper.
Yup, I paid my grad school loans off well into my 30's. My new bride helped tremendously. It's a choice we make. I had numbers in that range and that was 20 years ago.
I was referencing that it extends beyond this to everyday goods and services. Volumes and volumes of data. We have cheapened the value of too many products by giving them away for free through promotions. We have trained people to think stuff is free, or if not....don't sweat it one bit to steal it, "borrow it", or whatever descriptor you wish to use.
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I chose between Marquette and UW in 1978. My Dad thought I was crazy because he had limited $$ to contribute. ( I am the oldest of 6). I chose Marquette and loved every minute of my overall experience.
I paid most of my own way and I borrowed the max. Paid that bill into my mid 30s. Worth every dime I invested. Overall, the Jesuit experience is incredible. There is just no way I could pull that off now.
I encourage every smart kid I know to apply to Marquette and tell them not to look at the retail price, wait until you see what they offer.
1) With a delta of about $30K (retail) per year, many don't even apply.
2) MU drags their feet with financial aid offers, so that these kids need to commit before MU lets them know where they stand. I know that in many cases MU is waiting for more highly ranked admits to commit, but still.
Attended 1979-1983. I paid my total bill myself (5th of 7 kids of a stay at home mom and an electrician father. Six of us went to college-4 to Jesuit schools, 2 to state schools, all but our youngest sister paid 100% for ourselves and the 7th became a cop). A $2,500 annual student loan, summer job in a factory with weekends caddying covered everything. After graduation had 10 years of $100/month student loan payments, very easy to pay back. I don't see how kids today would be able to manage full cost on their own.
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To the "perception is reality" crew gaming the system is what it's all about.
I've got to think there's a nice way to raise your academic stature without gaming the system.
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Have to agree with Topper here.
The meteoric rise of college expenses is unsustainable. Stories of paying your way through in the 70s and 80s hold almost no relevance to the costs today.
Of course a college degree is still worth it. But the number of people who will willingly chose a private institution over a state school is growing smaller by the day. I entered college only 10 years ago, and while MU was expensive then, costs of private college have gone hyperbolic in the last 10 years
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/InflationTuitionMedicalGeneral1978to2008.png)
If this continues, many smart people will go to an in-state school. It is inevitable.
On a somewhat tangential subject, this is having a major effect on the wider economy. Millennials are not living with mom and dad because they are lazy or coddled, its because they are graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. They are putting off purchases of homes, cars, and other things most adults just took for granted 30 years ago. If you think this isn't going to have major impacts across the economy, think again.
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Have to agree with Topper here.
The meteoric rise of college expenses is unsustainable. Stories of paying your way through in the 70s and 80s hold almost no relevance to the costs today.
Of course a college degree is still worth it. But the number of people who will willingly chose a private institution over a state school is growing smaller by the day. I entered college only 10 years ago, and while MU was expensive then, costs of private college have gone hyperbolic in the last 10 years
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/InflationTuitionMedicalGeneral1978to2008.png)
If this continues, many smart people will go to an in-state school. It is inevitable.
On a somewhat tangential subject, this is having a major effect on the wider economy. Millennial are living with mom and dad because they are lazy or coddled, its because they are graduating with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. They are putting off purchases of homes, cars, and other things most adults just took for granted 30 years ago. If you think this isn't going to have major impacts across the economy, think again.
This exactly.
I understand the MU has to "keep up with the Jones's", but they also need to keep an eye on the long term health and sustainability of where they are headed.
Capital improvements are great, but if there aren't any students enrolling to use them, it's a waste.
Growth needs to be measured against long term risk and goals. There is a breaking point where people will just turn down MU based upon price. You can have all the shiny new buildings you want, if MU is too expensive, kids will go elsewhere.
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but if there aren't any students enrolling to use them
This hasn't been a problem yet, for the university. Applications are at an all-time high.
It seems like there's a lot of noise being created around a "problem" that may not exist quite yet for Marquette.
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This hasn't been a problem yet, for the university. Applications are at an all-time high.
It seems like there's a lot of noise being created around a "problem" that may not exist quite yet for Marquette.
Fair.
I'm thinking long term.
You have to think 10-20 years ahead when you are dealing with millions in capital improvements.
They can't just keep jacking up tuition until applications eventually go down. At that point, it's too late for meaningful course correction, especially when we add in the layer of the Jesuit mission.
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If this continues, many smart people will go to an in-state school. It is inevitable.
I think this is really an unwritten story... it's inevitable that the "deal" of going to "the" top state school in each state is going to skyrocket versus private schools as the cost for each goes up, even if the rate of increase for public schools is higher than private schools.
Maybe places like UW will adjust their tuition even higher to account for the increase in demand, or have 65,000 undergrads instead of 40,000.
BTW, every time I visit Madison I'm amazed at how much bigger the campus seems every year. What is it, half the size of Rhode Island?
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Attended 1979-1983. I paid my total bill myself (5th of 7 kids of a stay at home mom and an electrician father. Six of us went to college-4 to Jesuit schools, 2 to state schools, all but our youngest sister paid 100% for ourselves and the 7th became a cop). A $2,500 annual student loan, summer job in a factory with weekends caddying covered everything. After graduation had 10 years of $100/month student loan payments, very easy to pay back. I don't see how kids today would be able to manage full cost on their own.
Concur CT. Simply not possible today. Back in the day many followed your roadmap.
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I think this is really an unwritten story... it's inevitable that the "deal" of going to "the" top state school in each state is going to skyrocket versus private schools as the cost for each goes up, even if the rate of increase for public schools is higher than private schools.
Maybe places like UW will adjust their tuition even higher to account for the increase in demand, or have 65,000 undergrads instead of 40,000.
BTW, every time I visit Madison I'm amazed at how much bigger the campus seems every year. What is it, half the size of Rhode Island?
What's lost in this a bit is that while private universities have jacked tuition, public universities have jacked enrollment without adding to their class offerings. The net result is that classes fill and graduation in 4 years is becoming increasingly rare necessitating a longer and more expensive stay on campus.
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What's lost in this a bit is that while private universities have jacked tuition, public universities have jacked enrollment without adding to their class offerings. The net result is that classes fill and graduation in 4 years is becoming increasingly rare necessitating a longer and more expensive stay on campus.
I don't have any reason to doubt you, but do you have any numbers that suggest this?
I definitely think we are accepting too many kids to public schools when the graduates rates are absolutely horrid at a number of them.
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I don't have any reason to doubt you, but do you have any numbers that suggest this?
I definitely think we are accepting too many kids to public schools when the graduates rates are absolutely horrid at a number of them.
I don't have hard numbers available although I have heard this phenomenon discussed by numerous university administrators at several institutions. I will suggest that very limited state dollars have meant that public university budgets have been severely constrained. No way Illinois is hiring more professors or adding classrooms given the mess in Springfield. I think that fits the pattern around the country.
I will also add that public universities are known for deferred admit programs. Nursing is a perfect example. My daughter simply was not prepared to pay 2 years tuition to Madison for the 'chance' to get into their Nursing school where a 3.7 GPA might not get it done.
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Chicos .. you do have an interesting point about striving to be in the top 50, where families will find the ROI to be acceptable.
The only issue I have with that is .. the quality of the degree is often not linked to the quality of the job you can land. As an example, and not to denigrate the profession, but MU's college of education could be #1 in the universe, and only a handful of the teachers that get cranked out each year will likely see a healthy ROI after they've plopped down $200k for an education.
And, naturally, meanwhile MU is trying to get to the top 50? Those in the top 50 are trying to get in the top 25.
And indeed, to Jay Bee's point, my basis is not about MU, but all private schools with tuition, where the tuition is $30, 40, 50k/year. In a very short decade, we're talking $70, 80, 90k. True, the publics are floating upwards as well, due to decreases in public funding .. but they have a long way to go to catch up the private costs, and there is a heavy handbrake on publics' tuitions, as legislatures are going out of their way to squeeze.
Privates don't have that, beyond the walking feet of families who go elsewhere.
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Chicos .. you do have an interesting point about striving to be in the top 50, where families will find the ROI to be acceptable.
The only issue I have with that is .. the quality of the degree is often not linked to the quality of the job you can land. As an example, and not to denigrate the profession, but MU's college of education could be #1 in the universe, and only a handful of the teachers that get cranked out each year will likely see a healthy ROI after they've plopped down $200k for an education.
And, naturally, meanwhile MU is trying to get to the top 50? Those in the top 50 are trying to get in the top 25.
And indeed, to Jay Bee's point, my basis is not about MU, but all private schools with tuition, where the tuition is $30, 40, 50k/year. In a very short decade, we're talking $70, 80, 90k. True, the publics are floating upwards as well, due to decreases in public funding .. but they have a long way to go to catch up the private costs, and there is a heavy handbrake on publics' tuitions, as legislatures are going out of their way to squeeze.
Privates don't have that, beyond the walking feet of families who go elsewhere.
If it gets to that point, it's too late, and MU will be in serious trouble.
MU has to have some vision and foresight to be able to grow, but keep it economically attainable.
I'm not trying to be a doomsdayer, but I have serious concerns about this topic. MU HAS to be careful here.
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I don't have any reason to doubt you, but do you have any numbers that suggest this?
I definitely think we are accepting too many kids to public schools when the graduates rates are absolutely horrid at a number of them.
I recently attended a meeting where high-ranking administrators said they actually use the "we will get you out in 4 years" as a marketing tool for Marquette. There is a huge perception problem that a private institution is significantly more expensive than a high-quality public one. However, when one factors in the greater availability of merit-based aid and the ability to get all of your major and minor classes in 4 years, the cost difference shrinks significantly.
Private schools also aren't hamstrung by the amount of support they are given by the state. University of Illinois has all but abandoned its primary mission of educating residents of their own state. The Chicago Tribune reported this year that 10% of its freshman class this fall is from China. U of I fully admits they make a deliberate effort to woo foreign students because they pay full out-of-state tuition and don't qualify for financial aid.
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I recently attended a meeting where high-ranking administrators said they actually use the "we will get you out in 4 years" as a marketing tool for Marquette. There is a huge perception problem that a private institution is significantly more expensive than a high-quality public one. However, when one factors in the greater availability of merit-based aid and the ability to get all of your major and minor classes in 4 years, the cost difference shrinks significantly.
Private schools also aren't hamstrung by the amount of support they are given by the state. University of Illinois has all but abandoned its primary mission of educating residents of their own state. The Chicago Tribune reported this year that 10% of its freshman class this fall is from China. U of I fully admits they make a deliberate effort to woo foreign students because they pay full out-of-state tuition and don't qualify for financial aid.
Excellent point. Same thing happening at Cal-Berkeley.
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I don't have any reason to doubt you, but do you have any numbers that suggest this?
I definitely think we are accepting too many kids to public schools when the graduates rates are absolutely horrid at a number of them.
Just anecdotal evidence here- When my daughter looked at San Diego State, one of her fallbacks, the average student graduated in 5 years. My son knew friends who simply were not able to enroll in final class to graduate 4th year. Classes like that were offered only one semester a year and , if you did not get in or couldn't crash the class, you had to wait a whole year for another attempt.
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Just anecdotal evidence here- When my daughter looked at San Diego State, one of her fallbacks, the average student graduated in 5 years. My son knew friends who simply were not able to enroll in final class to graduate 4th year. Classes like that were offered only one semester a year and , if you did not get in or couldn't crash the class, you had to wait a whole year for another attempt.
The percentage of students at a given university who graduate in 4 years is almost impossible to find out unless the school releases the information on its own. Colleges and Universities are only required to report the 6-year graduation rate. I would assume that benchmark was established to account for students who changed their major, had to drop out for a semester or two for financial reasons, etc., but it is also a great way to hide the kids that were simply unable to enroll in the classes they needed in order to graduate on time.
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I recently attended a meeting where high-ranking administrators said they actually use the "we will get you out in 4 years" as a marketing tool for Marquette. There is a huge perception problem that a private institution is significantly more expensive than a high-quality public one. However, when one factors in the greater availability of merit-based aid and the ability to get all of your major and minor classes in 4 years, the cost difference shrinks significantly.
Private schools also aren't hamstrung by the amount of support they are given by the state. University of Illinois has all but abandoned its primary mission of educating residents of their own state. The Chicago Tribune reported this year that 10% of its freshman class this fall is from China. U of I fully admits they make a deliberate effort to woo foreign students because they pay full out-of-state tuition and don't qualify for financial aid.
On the first point, I can see what they are trying to do, but I don't know that it's that much of a benefit when the cost per year is still 3x as much. You NEED to get out in 4 years at Marquette. I probably wanted to switch from the College of Arts & Crafts to Business by mid-point in my junior year, but that would have meant another 1-2 years and many thousands more dollars in debt.
On the second point, in my graduate program (at MU), professors have been told by COB admin that they *need* at least 20 students in the program at any given time, for tuition purposes. This usually means nearly 50% are Chinese students. Flooding the market with this degree doesn't help graduates, but, "fortunately," almost none of them can get jobs due to Visa issues, so the market isn't as saturated as it could be.
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On the first point, I can see what they are trying to do, but I don't know that it's that much of a benefit when the cost per year is still 3x as much. You NEED to get out in 4 years at Marquette. I probably wanted to switch from the College of Arts & Crafts to Business by mid-point in my junior year, but that would have meant another 1-2 years and many thousands more dollars in debt.
On the second point, in my graduate program (at MU), professors have been told by COB admin that they *need* at least 20 students in the program at any given time, for tuition purposes. This usually means nearly 50% are Chinese students. Flooding the market with this degree doesn't help graduates, but, "fortunately," almost none of them can get jobs due to Visa issues, so the market isn't as saturated as it could be.
Do the math.
Marquette tuition and fees are about $36,000 per year. If you get a $12,000 Ignatius scholarship (relatively common) and graduate in 4 years, that's a net cost for your degree of $98,000.
If you are a science, engineering, or business major at U of I, in-state tuition and fees are about $20,500. Multiply that by 5 years and that is a net cost of $102,500. Add the opportunity cost of not having a full-time professional job that fifth year and you are approaching $150,000.
Room and board costs are similar between the two institutions, FWIW.
As far as your second point, I was talking about freshman enrollment, not graduate school. Kids are coming from China and are taking up undergrad business and engineering spots. In the past decade, U of I undergrad enrollment has gone from 90% in-state residents to a little over 70%.
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I think we're seriously overlooking how MU's expansion plans have impacted all grads, past and present. Fortunately, I've shed some light on the issue in the attached graph.
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That's a pie chart, idiot.
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The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.
4 years at Marquette - 144,000
5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000
Where, exactly, is the cost savings?
I'm not interested in your situation in Illinois, but it sounds like another example of a state with out of control finances. Good luck to you with that.
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Who are these mythical thin drunk MU chicks you speak of?
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Do the math.
Marquette tuition and fees are about $36,000 per year. If you get a $12,000 Ignatius scholarship (relatively common) and graduate in 4 years, that's a net cost for your degree of $98,000.
If you are a science, engineering, or business major at U of I, in-state tuition and fees are about $20,500. Multiply that by 5 years and that is a net cost of $102,500. Add the opportunity cost of not having a full-time professional job that fifth year and you are approaching $150,000.
Room and board costs are similar between the two institutions, FWIW.
As far as your second point, I was talking about freshman enrollment, not graduate school. Kids are coming from China and are taking up undergrad business and engineering spots. In the past decade, U of I undergrad enrollment has gone from 90% in-state residents to a little over 70%.
Is this apples to apples though?
If a kid is getting a scholarship at MU, isn't that kid likely to receive some sort of scholarship at UofI?
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The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.
4 years at Marquette - 144,000
5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000
Where, exactly, is the cost savings?
I'm not interested in your situation in Illinois, but it sounds like another example of a state with out of control finances. Good luck to you with that.
chick's point is you rarely pay the sticker price at Marquette, while you almost certainly pay the sticker at the public universities.
That being said, UoI's tuition is much higher than the average B1G school, but those behind will quickly catch up. UoI charges additional tuition to the sciences, engineering and business majors because those are their strengths, smart.
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The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.
4 years at Marquette - 144,000
5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000
Where, exactly, is the cost savings?
I'm not interested in your situation in Illinois, but it sounds like another example of a state with out of control finances. Good luck to you with that.
Since 1/3 of Marquette students are from Illinois, it's pretty relevant.
And thanks to my Jesuit education, I can make a salient point without resorting to being a rude a$$hole.
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Is this apples to apples though?
If a kid is getting a scholarship at MU, isn't that kid likely to receive some sort of scholarship at UofI?
Most likely, no. The majority of scholarships that MU gives (and most private schools) are in realty a tuition discount. The model is extremely similar to buying a car. There's the sticker price, then after a series of discounts, the actual price.
Public schools do not use this model, or if they do, it is not to the same degree as private institutions. The grades and test scores that the average admitted student brings to the table to receive a scholarship at MU, would almost in all cases, received no scholarship support at UofI, or another comparable public school.
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If this continues, many smart people will go to an in-state school. It is inevitable.
We're facing this situation right now. My wife and I made the decision to send our kids to private elementary school and high school. Obviously, with four kids, this has been and continues to be a significant investment. It's very difficult to calculate ROI on this because it gets into a lot of intangibles, but I wouldn't change it. However, it will have an effect on the money available for college.
But now we're looking at colleges for the first time. When I attended college, I never even considered any public schools. With my son, he's got one public school right at the top of his list (Miami) along with several privates (Elon, Kenyon, Dayton, ND, Georgetown, Catholic U). Fortunately, we've got a couple of good state schools in Ohio. Miami happens to be tied with Marquette in the US News rankings. At this point, if one of the several privates my son likes comes through with a great merit-based package, he might go there. If not, he'll likely go to Miami. And I'm comfortable with that because it's a great school. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if any of the privates he's considering comes up with a package that would bring the cost down to where it's competitive with Miami. Maybe one will surprise me. I hope so, if only to give some good options.
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Who are these mythical thin drunk MU chicks you speak of?
On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish MU dudes are.
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And thanks to my Jesuit education, I can make a salient point without resorting to being a rude a$$hole.
Nah, your "do the math" comment suggests you can't. I gave you the math. Deal with it.
Besides, this whole "sticker price" thing is a joke. Let's say a student gets an Ignatius scholarship. Wow, it's now $24,000 in tuition versus $10,000! What a bargain!
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This hasn't been a problem yet, for the university. Applications are at an all-time high.
It seems like there's a lot of noise being created around a "problem" that may not exist quite yet for Marquette.
This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.
The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.
I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans. You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.
I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?
So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.
All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.
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On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish sober MU dudes are.
FIFY
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This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.
The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.
I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans. You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.
I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?
So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.
All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.
Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!!
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The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.
4 years at Marquette - 144,000
5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000
Where, exactly, is the cost savings?
Looking at Miami in Ohio
No Merit-Based Cash:
Miami - $57,000 ($14,250 x 4 years)
Marquette - $144,000
With 3.5 GPA and 32+ on the ACT:
Miami - $28,500 ($7,125 x 4 years)
Marquette - ????
I'm hopeful that some schools will offer my son a good merit-based program. As I mentioned in another post, I'd be surprised if it brings the cost down low enough to be competitive with Miami on that basis.
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My daughter is in her sophomore year of college. She decided on her major during high school and we went college shopping based on her intended major. (Occupational Therapy). There is one major Midwest Catholic university that offers it. Xavier. She applied to and was accepted there. They immediately offered her $17k off of their $40k tuition/room-board rate. She opted to go to a directional MAC school that had gave her a $4500 merit based scholarship and nothing else. My wife and I pledged to continue paying what he had paid per year to put her through Catholic schools. Because of the state school being less than half of what Xavier cost to begin with, she will need no loans until her 4th year, when she starts working on her masters while simultaneously finishing her bachelors. She will likely leave college with only a Ford Focus worth of debt, instead of a BMW 3 series worth. After 12 years of catholic school, she chose the state school based on her own cost-benefit analysis. A cautionary tale for MU.
If I had been able to persuade her to change her plans for her major....one of the state schools here will give 4 years of free tuition for a high school GPA higher than 3.9 or an ACT score higher than 29. She had both.
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Nah, your "do the math" comment suggests you can't. I gave you the math. Deal with it.
Besides, this whole "sticker price" thing is a joke. Let's say a student gets an Ignatius scholarship. Wow, it's now $24,000 in tuition versus $10,000! What a bargain!
On a percentage basis if you add in Room and Board and income in the fifth year instead of tuition and more Room and Board in the Fifth year I think you will find the numbers come out more equal than you are stating.
25 X 5 = 125000 Tuition Room and Board UW-Mad
(51 x 4)-50 = 154000 Tuition Room and Board MU
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My daughter is in her sophomore year of college. She decided on her major during high school and we went college shopping based on her intended major. (Occupational Therapy). There is one major Midwest Catholic university that offers it. Xavier. She applied to and was accepted there. They immediately offered her $17k off of their $40k tuition/room-board rate. She opted to go to a directional MAC school that had gave her a $4500 merit based scholarship and nothing else. My wife and I pledged to continue paying what he had paid per year to put her through Catholic schools. Because of the state school being less than half of what Xavier cost to begin with, she will need no loans until her 4th year, when she starts working on her masters while simultaneously finishing her bachelors. She will likely leave college with only a Ford Focus worth of debt, instead of a BMW 3 series worth. After 12 years of catholic school, she chose the state school based on her own cost-benefit analysis. A cautionary tale for MU.
Aside from the focus on the major, that is very similar to what we're looking at in my house. My son is a smart kid and sees what college costs. We haven't specifically told him what we can or will spend, but like your daughter he's doing a cost-benefit analysis and just doesn't see the benefit of the private schools. There are a couple privates he really likes, and he'd love for them to offer enough money that the cost-benefit makes sense, but he's not counting on it.
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Back in the day, I was able to pay my tuition entirely with a summer job's earnin's. Kids today, don't have that luxury, aina?
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On behalf of all the "thin drunk MU chicks"...they'd like to know where all the in-shape, stylish MU dudes are.
I can only speak for myself - 4 South Schroeder freshman and sophomore years, 932 N 18th as a junior, 23rd and Wisconsin (the not very aptly named Camelot East Apts) senior year.
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Looking at Miami in Ohio
No Merit-Based Cash:
Miami - $57,000 ($14,250 x 4 years)
Marquette - $144,000
With 3.5 GPA and 32+ on the ACT:
Miami - $28,500 ($7,125 x 4 years)
Marquette - ????
I'm hopeful that some schools will offer my son a good merit-based program. As I mentioned in another post, I'd be surprised if it brings the cost down low enough to be competitive with Miami on that basis.
Assuming your GPA includes the 'extra' point for AP/Honors classes (truly a 5 pt scale), I'd estimate a MU scholly at $10-$12K range per year assuming all the nice resume items. By way of comparison, Butler's scholly for that might be $15K. We typically lag the competition and that's an issue related to the endowment.
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Assuming your GPA includes the 'extra' point for AP/Honors classes (truly a 5 pt scale), I'd estimate a MU scholly at $10-$12K range per year assuming all the nice resume items. By way of comparison, Butler's scholly for that might be $15K. We typically lag the competition and that's an issue related to the endowment.
Thanks for the information. We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect. We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do. As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction. They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36). I find that surprising. I'm not sure what they consider rigorous. Would four AP be rigorous? 6? IB? Just not sure what to expect.
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The math: University of Wisconsin is roughly $10,000 per year in tuition. I'll trust your Marquette numbers and say they're $36,000. So, I underestimated the ratio of a year at Marquette versus a year at Madison. It's 3.6, not 3.0.
4 years at Marquette - 144,000
5 years at Wisconsin - 50,000
Where, exactly, is the cost savings?
Chick compared Business/Engineering majors. At UW, tuition and fees for Business is $12,547 and Engineering is $12,947.
https://registrar.wisc.edu/tuition_&_fees.htm
At MU, tuition and fees for Business/Engineering majors is $35,930 for up to 19 credits.
http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/bursar/2014-15tuitionandhousingfees.shtml
Plus, she mentioned the greater availability of scholarships/aid. A $12,000/year St. Ignatius scholarship at MU would be common for a kid choosing between MU and UW. So for Business/Engineering it would be $23,930 with the scholarship.
4 years at MU = $95,720
5 years at UW = $64,735 (Engineering)
5 years at UW = $62,735 (Business)
Include a first year salary of $50,000+ and the MU grad comes out ahead after 5 years.
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Thanks for the information. We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect. We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do. As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction. They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36). I find that surprising. I'm not sure what they consider rigorous. Would four AP be rigorous? 6? IB? Just not sure what to expect.
Is you avatar from your son's school? Marquette has a program where they award a half-tuition scholarship to one student from each of the Jesuit high schools in the US:
http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-jesuit.php
All you have to do now is talk all the other kids at his school out of applying to Marquette and yours is golden.
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Thanks for the information. We're really in the dark on this and don't know what to expect. We only know Miami's 3.5/32 standard because it's explicitly presented on their website and in presentations they do. As long as a student meets that, they're guaranteed at least 50% tuition reduction. They claim that further money is available based only on the rigor of the HS program, not better scores (e.g., 4.5/36). I find that surprising. I'm not sure what they consider rigorous. Would four AP be rigorous? 6? IB? Just not sure what to expect.
StillA, it'll all make sense when you go through the process as you set the offers down side by side. Funny, my kids were both excited about the big fancy acceptance letter. I waited for the scholly letter that typically followed one to four weeks later. We were blessed in the fact that no offer was so superior to another that it drove our kids' decision. It truly would have been disappointing if our kids were forced to go somewhere they weren't keen on. That said, we did leave dollars on the table when they chose Marquette. But at least we get to cheer for the same basketball team!
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StillAWarrior, you'll get $10k-15K easily from MU, especially if your son is coming from a Jezzy.
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Chick compared Business/Engineering majors. At UW, tuition and fees for Business is $12,547 and Engineering is $12,947.
https://registrar.wisc.edu/tuition_&_fees.htm
At MU, tuition and fees for Business/Engineering majors is $35,930 for up to 19 credits.
http://www.marquette.edu/mucentral/bursar/2014-15tuitionandhousingfees.shtml
Plus, she mentioned the greater availability of scholarships/aid. A $12,000/year St. Ignatius scholarship at MU would be common for a kid choosing between MU and UW. So for Business/Engineering it would be $23,930 with the scholarship.
4 years at MU = $95,720
5 years at UW = $64,735 (Engineering)
5 years at UW = $62,735 (Business)
Include a first year salary of $50,000+ and the MU grad comes out ahead after 5 years.
The fifth year is crucial for both earned income and tuition, but more importantly, talking with other recruiters in my field everyone notes a MU engineering student is coming out in four years. That usually means they busted their ass to get their degree with maximum credit semesters, which has translated into the real world.
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Excellent point. Same thing happening at Cal-Berkeley.
In addition to the Chinese students, the new big thing is recruiting from Saudi Arabia, the government is strongly advocating for increased science education and will pay full tuition for their students.
In both countries, the cost of an American Education is a drop in the bucket…cheap compared to their salaries and costs of living, so they'll gladly pay full tuition.
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In addition to the Chinese students, the new big thing is recruiting from Saudi Arabia, the government is strongly advocating for increased science education and will pay full tuition for their students.
Is Saudi Arabia sending over any female students?
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We're facing this situation right now. My wife and I made the decision to send our kids to private elementary school and high school. Obviously, with four kids, this has been and continues to be a significant investment. It's very difficult to calculate ROI on this because it gets into a lot of intangibles, but I wouldn't change it. However, it will have an effect on the money available for college.
But now we're looking at colleges for the first time. When I attended college, I never even considered any public schools. With my son, he's got one public school right at the top of his list (Miami) along with several privates (Elon, Kenyon, Dayton, ND, Georgetown, Catholic U). Fortunately, we've got a couple of good state schools in Ohio. Miami happens to be tied with Marquette in the US News rankings. At this point, if one of the several privates my son likes comes through with a great merit-based package, he might go there. If not, he'll likely go to Miami. And I'm comfortable with that because it's a great school. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if any of the privates he's considering comes up with a package that would bring the cost down to where it's competitive with Miami. Maybe one will surprise me. I hope so, if only to give some good options.
You probably already know this, but once you get all your offers, you can go back negotiate with the schools for more grants. Leverage one offer against another. We ended up paying a great deal less than the original acceptance letter offer my son got at his first choice by pointing out better offers he got from some other comparable schools. Do your homework. Doesn't always work, but it never hurts to ask.
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I graduated in 2004 and was fortunate to not have students loans (partial academic scholly and parents covered the rest). I earned an MBA from Northwestern a few years ago and took out 90k in loans. The company I work for paid for some and loans got returned to me in the form of a personal check. Cashed them and invested them. Loans were just over 5% annually and have managed to net 14% per year on average on loaned money. I'm paying off student loans with capital gains off of...student loans. Not bad!
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Is you avatar from your son's school? Marquette has a program where they award a half-tuition scholarship to one student from each of the Jesuit high schools in the US:
http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-jesuit.php
All you have to do now is talk all the other kids at his school out of applying to Marquette and yours is golden.
At the risk of incurring the ban hammer and well-deserved public ridicule and shame, I have to admit that Marquette isn't on his list at this point. I consider it a personal failure.
It's an environment thing for him. When I was picking a school, one of the things that really appealed to me (a small town kid from the mountains) was an urban environment. That has no appeal at all to him. He likes the more rural campuses and college towns. His top three are probably Elon, Kenyon and Miami. Elon and Kenyon are probably more similar in terms of size and feel. Miami is considerably larger than the two other schools, but Oxford is definitely a college town and has that same feel -- only bigger. He's still got Georgetown, Catholic U and Loyola Chicago on his list, but I don't know why -- they aren't at all what he seems to like. I consider ND kind of in between. Georgetown and ND have some appeal to him and he says they'll be hard to turn down if they make him an incredible offer. I don't see that happening.
I think ultimately, it will come down to Elon or Miami. Fortunately, he likes both schools. If Elon makes an offer that makes it competitive with Miami, I think he'll go there. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that. I've heard glowing reviews from people I've talked to that have any experience with it, but I honestly don't know much about it. We haven't even visited. If Elon doesn't come through with the cash, it'll probably be Miami.
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Is this apples to apples though?
If a kid is getting a scholarship at MU, isn't that kid likely to receive some sort of scholarship at UofI?
Absolutely not. University of Illinois is extremely stingy with scholarship money, while Marquette is extremely generous.
Personal experience: I am from Illinois and I attended MU for engineering 2009-14 (8 semesters + 1 summer + co-op work periods). I was accepted to Illinois, Purdue, Marquette, and Northwestern. Marquette was the least expensive. If I remember the numbers correctly, the total cost of attendance (tuition + fees + room & board) at Marquette was $7k less than Illinois, $2k less than Purdue, and $27k less than Northwestern, annually.
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This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.
The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.
I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans. You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.
I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?
So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.
All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.
There is another possible wrench in this model. As For-Profit Universities continue to pop up, Public schools may be required to increase their tuition. Technically, as a not-for-profit, you are not allowed to compete with industry (for-profit) by charging less than market rate for services, if you are supported by government funds. The state schools are definitely supported by government funds and you could technically see for-profit institutions demand tuition increases at Public schools.
Of course one would see a lot of public backlash (and new laws probably), but it is possible.
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You probably already know this, but once you get all your offers, you can go back negotiate with the schools for more grants. Leverage one offer against another. We ended up paying a great deal less than the original acceptance letter offer my son got at his first choice by pointing out better offers he got from some other comparable schools. Do your homework. Doesn't always work, but it never hurts to ask.
Thank you. I had heard that. That's one of the reasons I don't think it makes any sense to use one of the "binding" early application processes. Hopefully there will be something about his resume that will result in a couple schools wanting him enough to be willing to negotiate.
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I graduated in 2004 and was fortunate to not have students loans (partial academic scholly and parents covered the rest). I earned an MBA from Northwestern a few years ago and took out 90k in loans. The company I work for paid for some and loans got returned to me in the form of a personal check. Cashed them and invested them. Loans were just over 5% annually and have managed to net 14% per year on average on loaned money. I'm paying off student loans with capital gains off of...student loans. Not bad!
MBA's are out of control these days. I earned mine roughly 30 years ago across town from you. Paid my own way but I think I had my loans all paid off in about 5 years. I hear what it costs to go to a top tier program these days. No wonder they call me each and every Sunday (seemingly) for a donation. Thankfully chick intercepted last night's. I was still in a bad mood after the Packer upchuck.
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At the risk of incurring the ban hammer and well-deserved public ridicule and shame, I have to admit that Marquette isn't on his list at this point. I consider it a personal failure.
It's an environment thing for him. When I was picking a school, one of the things that really appealed to me (a small town kid from the mountains) was an urban environment. That has no appeal at all to him. He likes the more rural campuses and college towns. His top three are probably Elon, Kenyon and Miami. Elon and Kenyon are probably more similar in terms of size and feel. Miami is considerably larger than the two other schools, but Oxford is definitely a college town and has that same feel -- only bigger. He's still got Georgetown, Catholic U and Loyola Chicago on his list, but I don't know why -- they aren't at all what he seems to like. I consider ND kind of in between. Georgetown and ND have some appeal to him and he says they'll be hard to turn down if they make him an incredible offer. I don't see that happening.
I think ultimately, it will come down to Elon or Miami. Fortunately, he likes both schools. If Elon makes an offer that makes it competitive with Miami, I think he'll go there. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about that. I've heard glowing reviews from people I've talked to that have any experience with it, but I honestly don't know much about it. We haven't even visited. If Elon doesn't come through with the cash, it'll probably be Miami.
At least if he goes to Miami or Elon he can still root for Marquette. A lot of my buddies went to Miami and I don't even think they know the name of the coach there. It's a great school and a ton of fun, but not exactly a sports school.
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MBA's are out of control these days. I earned mine roughly 30 years ago across town from you. Paid my own way but I think I had my loans all paid off in about 5 years. I hear what it costs to go to a top tier program these days. No wonder they call me each and every Sunday (seemingly) for a donation. Thankfully chick intercepted last night's. I was still in a bad mood after the Packer upchuck.
Well, it's all relative. An MU degree did not make me competitive in the Chicago market. An MBA from NU did. I can easily credit NU with about a 40k bump in salary and way more job security than ever before. Well worth the 90k...which sounds nuts because it's just a piece of paper.
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Absolutely not. University of Illinois is extremely stingy with scholarship money, while Marquette is extremely generous.
Personal experience: I am from Illinois and I attended MU for engineering 2009-14 (8 semesters + 1 summer + co-op work periods). I was accepted to Illinois, Purdue, Marquette, and Northwestern. Marquette was the least expensive. If I remember the numbers correctly, the total cost of attendance (tuition + fees + room & board) at Marquette was $7k less than Illinois, $2k less than Purdue, and $27k less than Northwestern, annually.
Same five years! (Fist bump)
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Absolutely not. University of Illinois is extremely stingy with scholarship money, while Marquette is extremely generous.
Personal experience: I am from Illinois and I attended MU for engineering 2009-14 (8 semesters + 1 summer + co-op work periods). I was accepted to Illinois, Purdue, Marquette, and Northwestern. Marquette was the least expensive. If I remember the numbers correctly, the total cost of attendance (tuition + fees + room & board) at Marquette was $7k less than Illinois, $2k less than Purdue, and $27k less than Northwestern, annually.
I wish more parents would simply run the numbers. At my kids' school, so many parents assumed that they couldn't afford a private university. Many of them would have been a great fit at Marquette. And the guidance counselors weren't much help. If I were in Marquette admissions I would get together with some of my competitors to put together a PR campaign regarding affordability and go to the Illinois high schools with it.
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I wish more parents would simply run the numbers. At my kids' school, so many parents assumed that they couldn't afford a private university. Many of them would have been a great fit at Marquette. And the guidance counselors weren't much help. If I were in Marquette admissions I would get together with some of my competitors to put together a PR campaign regarding affordability and go to the Illinois high schools with it.
The following all still holds but I apologize for not having read the entire thread before posting, as some of it repeats points already made.
I think the problem has to do with the advertised sticker price vs. the real price (at least for applicants hitting some baseline gpa/test score numbers). There is a $12,000 to $24,000 difference in those two numbers for many of the midwest Catholic schools (this is the pool I know best based on my daughter's experience in applying this year). In other words, MU, SLU, Creighton, Dayton etc. may have a sticker rice of $45,000 to $50,000 all in, but the true price with decent grades and good (not great) test scores will be $20,000 to $30,000.
AND THAT IS BEFORE YOU CONSIDER NEED. Throw in need based grants, and the bottom line number can quickly get under $15,000/yr.
Is it possible that the schools want the "prestige" of charging higher tuition? Is it worth it to the schools to have this discrepancy in order to hit the small percentage of students who pay full sticker? Maybe it is. Not sure how the economics of it play out. But it sure is a befuddling market.
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Just went through this process/analysis with my oldest.
She was not really interested in MU, but with both parents as alums, she did visit and apply. She's a good student (3.8 GPA and 32 ACT) and was accepted with a $10,000 scholarship (we would not qualify for any other need-based aid).
But, looking objectively at the costs, it's hard not to lean towards a state school (she picked Madison):
Marquette - Room, Board, Tuition = $46,480 - $10,000 = $36,480
Madison - Room, Board, Tuition = $19,010
Even if MU is a better school, is it almost twice as good as Madison? The recent US News rankings has UW #47 and MU #76.
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Just went through this process/analysis with my oldest.
She was not really interested in MU, but with both parents as alums, she did visit and apply. She's a good student (3.8 GPA and 32 ACT) and was accepted with a $10,000 scholarship (we would not qualify for any other need-based aid).
But, looking objectively at the costs, it's hard not to lean towards a state school (she picked Madison):
Marquette - Room, Board, Tuition = $46,480 - $10,000 = $36,480
Madison - Room, Board, Tuition = $19,010
Even if MU is a better school, is it almost twice as good as Madison? The recent US News rankings has UW #47 and MU #76.
This sums it up perfectly. The math has gotten much worse for MU in the past 10 years.
When I decided to go to Marquette (I was also accepted to UW) the math was more like this:
Marquette - Room, board, tuition, $28,000 (approximately) - $8,000 Ignatius scholly = $20,000
Madison - Room, board, tuition, $14,000 (approximately)
The difference has almost tripled from 6k a year to 17k a year. Multiply that over 4 years and the difference changes from 24k to 68k.
This is not sustainable.
I accept that private school tuition will always be more than state school tuition. But MU must find a way to keep tuition increases in line with state schools, after taking scholarships into account, to stay competitive.
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AND THAT IS BEFORE YOU CONSIDER NEED.
I filled out those forms. It said that I could afford 1/5 of my total household income before taxes. So we weren't going to be getting any need-based aid from Xavier, or any other private school. At all of the tours we did, we were told by the financial aid people to sit down before you opened the envelope telling you what you could theoretically afford.
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I filled out those forms. It said that I could afford 1/5 of my total household income before taxes. So we weren't going to be getting any need-based aid from Xavier, or any other private school. At all of the tours we did, we were told by the financial aid people to sit down before you opened the envelope telling you what you could theoretically afford.
I'm sure we'll fill out those forms. Just like we did when my son started HS and they told us we didn't qualify. Just like we did when my daughter joined him there (thinking it might make a difference since we were going to be paying for two) and they told us we didn't qualify. I'm not expecting much, if anything when we repeat the process for college.
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Most likely, no. The majority of scholarships that MU gives (and most private schools) are in realty a tuition discount. The model is extremely similar to buying a car. There's the sticker price, then after a series of discounts, the actual price.
Public schools do not use this model, or if they do, it is not to the same degree as private institutions. The grades and test scores that the average admitted student brings to the table to receive a scholarship at MU, would almost in all cases, received no scholarship support at UofI, or another comparable public school.
I don't know anything about UofI, but your statement about other public schools is overly broad, as there are some public schools that do give significant scholarships as a "discount" based on merit.
My daughter was accepted to MU with the $12k/yr Ignatius scholarship...and also to Mizzou with something called the Mark Twain Scholarship ($7k/year). Mizzou's out of state tuition is about $11,000/yr less than MU's, and their average room & board is about $1,500 less. Add 'em up and my daughter is paying about $7,500 less per year at Mizzou ($30,000 savings total).
I know Marquette may be "better" than Mizzou in many programs, but that's irrelevant to my daughter, as she's majoring in Journalism. Mizzou's program is usually ranked anywhere from #1 to about #5 depending on who you ask, so she's getting pretty good bang for her buck.
FWIW she had an even better merit-based offer from ASU's J-school (would've saved about $50,000 vs Marquette over 4 years), but she wasn't as impressed by the program.
Just a couple more data points....
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Wow, when I was in MKE my GF (now wife) worked at Continental Bank, which I think was at Wisconsin and 8th. It seemed like a long way from MU. Now I guess, not so much.
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You probably already know this, but once you get all your offers, you can go back negotiate with the schools for more grants. Leverage one offer against another. We ended up paying a great deal less than the original acceptance letter offer my son got at his first choice by pointing out better offers he got from some other comparable schools. Do your homework. Doesn't always work, but it never hurts to ask.
My cousin's daughter is a frosh in a private college in the school of her choice and did exactly this. A school that was lower on her list gave her an amazing offer so they sent copies of the offer to her first choice and they matched.
I'm trying to plant the seed of attending college in Canada where every school is public and inexpensive by USA terns........My wife is planting the seed of college in Poland with the dual citizenship the cost would be almost free.
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This is true. However, this will be a problem for Marquette in the next 5-15 years.
The current model for federal student loans is basically a blank check written to anyone who wants to get a college education. It is a very noble model. I love that our government believes in access to college education for all people. However, it is not a financially sustainable system. Student loan debt in the united states is in to the trillions of dollars. Students are defaulting on their loans at the highest rate ever. As the government gets futher and further into debt, eventually the questions of student loan debt will have to be solved.
I believe (as do experts in the field) that eventually the federal government will reform the student loan application process. No longer will everyone be guaranteed the loan money required to get an expensive private school education. The government will take into account the likelihood of applicant's ability to pay back their loans. You want tens of thousands of dollars to be a women's studies major at Alverno? Sorry, no loan for you. Go to UW-Parkside. You want tens of thousands to be an english major at Marquette? Sorry, you don't qualify. Go to UW-Milwaukee or UW-Whitewater.
I agree with Chicos and others when they say that having a top tier education will convince the best and the brightest to fork over the money. But that is only for those who can afford it. Students from lower socio-economic statuses will literally be unable to come up with enough money to go to school at Marquette. The original mission of our university is urban education. How are we fulfilling that mission if only the richest of society can afford our education?
So how do we offer a top 80 education while fulfilling our mission of educating those who cannot afford an education on their own? I have ideas, but none of them are perfect. We could model ourselves after the state schools and cut liberal arts degrees. They are lower money makers and students in those majors have a lower ROI. We could model ourselves after the Ivies and offer a graduated tuition rate based on parent's income levels. We could model ourselves after some community colleges that partner with businesses to offer scholarships to lower socio-economic students in exchange for working at the businesses.
All I know is, changes is coming. I hope Marquette is ready to be proactive rather than reactive. I think over the next 50 years we will see hundreds of universities and colleges going out of business, most of them small privates. As a more prestigious private school, this could be an opportunity for us. We could absorb a lot of those displaced students who would have gone to other small privates. But only if we are prepared.
Change the mission, or change the segmentation of how many folks you wish to educate that fit that bill.
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.My wife is planting the seed of college in Poland with the dual citizenship the cost would be almost free.
Speaking as a person who has hired many college grads, having a degree from Poland is going to be a hindrance when it comes to getting a job. Very few people are going to know whether a degree from any particular university in Poland is worth anything. Especially with recent grads, I would never hire someone with a degree from a school I had never heard of.
I have many Polish-born friends (I worked for many years in the janitorial industry), and I don't know a single one who sent or are planning to send their dual-citizen kids back to Poland for university.
Just my two cents.
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I filled out those forms. It said that I could afford 1/5 of my total household income before taxes. So we weren't going to be getting any need-based aid from Xavier, or any other private school. At all of the tours we did, we were told by the financial aid people to sit down before you opened the envelope telling you what you could theoretically afford.
The one place I can guarantee that it is worth it to fill out the forms is Dayton. Even if you are a billionaire, if you fill out the forms, books and fees are covered. If you don't, you pay for them.
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Well, it's all relative. An MU degree did not make me competitive in the Chicago market. An MBA from NU did. I can easily credit NU with about a 40k bump in salary and way more job security than ever before. Well worth the 90k...which sounds nuts because it's just a piece of paper.
Concur. My 30 year banking career resulted. I'd only recommend a Top 20 program. Top 5 is even better. You and I were both blessed. And it's pretty freakin' cool when one's mentor is awarded the Nobel for Economics.
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If you are green, you are growing. Lovell has set a growth agenda from the get go, but also is locking onto these innovation partnerships around town in order to share costs. According to MU's Financial Statements, MU brought in contributions receivables of $81,498M in 2010 and $83,519M in Fr. Wild's last year. Enter Pilarz and the contributions receivables went down to $78,895M in 2012 and $62,897M in 2013 (and the stock market rocketed up).
How does one make up for the drop-off in contributions when one fails in leadership? Raise tuition, with gross tuition rising from $306,018M in Wild's last year to $337,783M in Pilarz's Year 2. Fact is, tuition control goes with growth by keeping tuition in line by insisting that a sizeable part of endowment and incubation revenue go toward financial aid.
"Net Contributions Receivable" is an asset. It is a snapshot of the outstanding pledged contributions at the end of the 2013 and 2012 years. The decrease could be due to lack of new pledges. Or it could be due to increased pledge payments of some sort. It isn't a real good way to determine how successful Marquette's fundraising is in a given fiscal year.
A much better way is to look at the Statement of Activities, which show that contributions income was essentially flat between 2012 and 2013 (which includes both new cash contributions and new pledges, but not payments on existing pledges). Therefore this leads me to believe that the decrease in Net Contributions Receivable is due to an increase in payments on existing pledges - likely due to an increase in the stock market.
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"Net Contributions Receivable" is an asset. It is a snapshot of the outstanding pledged contributions at the end of the 2013 and 2012 years. The decrease could be due to lack of new pledges. Or it could be due to increased pledge payments of some sort. It isn't a real good way to determine how successful Marquette's fundraising is in a given fiscal year.
A much better way is to look at the Statement of Activities, which show that contributions income was essentially flat between 2012 and 2013 (which includes both new cash contributions and new pledges, but not payments on existing pledges). Therefore this leads me to believe that the decrease in Net Contributions Receivable is due to an increase in payments on existing pledges - likely due to an increase in the stock market.
Thanks for adding to this and JayBee's comments. However, this is the only publicly available data that is consistent over the years...as to why, it is in the footnotes:
Due to an amendment of a donor agreement during fiscal year 2013, a contribution receivable of $7,021 was reclassified to a grant through temporarily restricted nonoperating activity. Contributions with donor-imposed conditions are not recognized unless it is reasonably expected that the conditions can be met.
Which single donor? Why the change in conditions to a pledge versus receivable? They weren't the only ones...interesting to see big donations came in to Fr. Wild in January for $10 million and Lovell all summer. The 1% at MU is a very small sample.
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Thanks for adding to this and JayBee's comments. However, this is the only publicly available data that is consistent over the years...as to why, it is in the footnotes:
Which single donor? Why the change in conditions to a pledge versus receivable? They weren't the only ones...interesting to see big donations came in to Fr. Wild in January for $10 million and Lovell all summer. The 1% at MU is a very small sample.
lol. No, you just aren't familiar with basic financial accounting and reporting.
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On the cost of tuition debate, I have said this before...minorities today, will be the majority in 2050. Many of these will be first generation college students, unlike today, where Millenials wer expected by their more affluent Boomer parents to go to college. The Millenials will be the most educated generation in history.
But, with 18 year old+ Hispanics, who are very Catholic, growing annually at twice the general population, the definitionsof educational value will be very different in terms of a traditiona college degree. JUCO will be more prevalent for economic reasons, with a transfer to a name school to finish. Two year and three year degrees will be more valued than 4 or 6 year degrees (with an advanced degree) in terms of ROI.
For example, with summer school, why not finish in three years versus the five at Wisconsin or state schools? Why not partner with JUCO's for a 2-4 year combo degree? More so, expanding the student base to a world of consumers by creating an international school on campus as the local population outside of the West is younger (like Asia, Africa). Virtual education? Stanford is on it already.
Some will cringe at this as it may be seen as moving away from a traditional Jesuit education...but the demographics and economics will dictate it.
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lol. No, you just aren't familiar with basic financial accounting and reporting.
You are gem. Add content not bluster.
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On the cost of tuition debate, I have said this before...minorities today, will be the majority in 2050. Many of these will be first generation college students, unlike today, where Millenials wer expected by their more affluent Boomer parents to go to college. The Millenials will be the most educated generation in history.
But, with 18 year old+ Hispanics, who are very Catholic, growing annually at twice the general population, the definitionsof educational value will be very different in terms of a traditiona college degree. JUCO will be more prevalent for economic reasons, with a transfer to a name school to finish. Two year and three year degrees will be more valued than 4 or 6 year degrees (with an advanced degree) in terms of ROI.
For example, with summer school, why not finish in three years versus the five at Wisconsin or state schools? Why not partner with JUCO's for a 2-4 year combo degree? More so, expanding the student base to a world of consumers by creating an international school on campus as the local population outside of the West is younger (like Asia, Africa). Virtual education? Stanford is on it already.
Some will cringe at this as it may be seen as moving away from a traditional Jesuit education...but the demographics and economics will dictate it.
This would be a bad idea, especially in the sciences/engineering. The fact of the matter is, the education at JUCO's is not great, especially in the Sciences.
The faculty there are not quite capable enough to teach many of the classes they are teaching.
For a liberal arts degree sure.
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Speaking as a person who has hired many college grads, having a degree from Poland is going to be a hindrance when it comes to getting a job. Very few people are going to know whether a degree from any particular university in Poland is worth anything. Especially with recent grads, I would never hire someone with a degree from a school I had never heard of.
I have many Polish-born friends (I worked for many years in the janitorial industry), and I don't know a single one who sent or are planning to send their dual-citizen kids back to Poland for university.
Just my two cents.
You have me convinced! I've maintained that maybe for a graduate degree in international-something. At least they have the option.
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Which single donor? Why the change in conditions to a pledge versus receivable? They weren't the only ones...interesting to see big donations came in to Fr. Wild in January for $10 million and Lovell all summer. The 1% at MU is a very small sample.
First of all, this is pretty small so I am surprised they even mentioned it. Changes in pledges receivable for reasons like this are relatively routine.
And as for the $10M announcements in gift commitments, don't mix up what is reported via financial statements and what is reported via Marquette public relations. The former must be accounted for when the pledge is made. The latter can be done strategically at any time for PR reasons. I am positive that Marquette released those pledges publicly to gain momentum as the new President was taking over. However those pledges take time to develop and finalize. I am sure that Pilarz had some type of involvement. He may have actually secured them under his watch. OR perhaps the donors didn't like him and wanted to wait until the new guy came on board. Who knows.
But the point stands is that your initial assessment of using the decrease in net contributions receivable is an inaccurate way to judge fundraising success year over year.
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This would be a bad idea, especially in the sciences/engineering. The fact of the matter is, the education at JUCO's is not great, especially in the Sciences.
The faculty there are not quite capable enough to teach many of the classes they are teaching.
For a liberal arts degree sure.
Not accurate as a blanket statement. Some of the folks teaching at UW Extensions have extensive experience in their fields and continue to work in their field. They choose not to publish or whatever else is expected of faculty at the name brands. For those families challenged with paying for multiple kids through college it is a great strategy. 2 years at a UW Extension and 2 years at a name brand for your diploma.
My niece graduated this spring top 2% of her class. Will attend a 2 year school for the basics and a name brand for her nursing degree. First 2 years complete for $12K. A diploma from a name brand. Golden.
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I'm hoping it's the lot SE of Straz near Butch's. Much better land.
Back to the original topic, it was reported today that it includes all the land from 7th to 10th streets, including the UMB Funds building, which was recently vacated. So they have a building to use right away and probably parking in the short term, until they come up with a long term plan for the property. They could potentially close off that loop of streets, tear down the buildings and have a huge piece of land to work with.
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Back to the original topic, it was reported today that it includes all the land from 8th to 10th streets, including the UMB Funds building, which was recently vacated. So they have a building to use right away and probably parking in the short term, until they come up with a long term plan for the property. They could potentially close off that loop of streets, tear down the buildings and have a huge piece of land to work with.
Its an ugly building, but you're right, they could use it for office space at the very least, or classrooms with some remodeling. Looks like a decent chunk of land. Would be nice green space.
I'm assuming they also get the gravel pit between the UMB building and Marquette Interchange? That's actually a lot of land.
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Back to the original topic, it was reported today that it includes all the land from 8th to 10th streets, including the UMB Funds building, which was recently vacated. So they have a building to use right away and probably parking in the short term, until they come up with a long term plan for the property. They could potentially close off that loop of streets, tear down the buildings and have a huge piece of land to work with.
Too bad they didn't get the next block of vacant land to the east as well. I can't remember that ever being anything other than vacant land.
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Sorry, I mistyped, it includes everything from 7th to 10th St. Not sure about Butch's. The rest has been empty since they removed that freeway ramp loop. $9 million price tag.
Here is the article.
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/09/marquettes-9m-land-purchase-to-include-former-umb.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/09/marquettes-9m-land-purchase-to-include-former-umb.html)
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My daughter is in her sophomore year of college. She decided on her major during high school and we went college shopping based on her intended major. (Occupational Therapy). There is one major Midwest Catholic university that offers it. Xavier. She applied to and was accepted there. They immediately offered her $17k off of their $40k tuition/room-board rate. She opted to go to a directional MAC school that had gave her a $4500 merit based scholarship and nothing else. My wife and I pledged to continue paying what he had paid per year to put her through Catholic schools. Because of the state school being less than half of what Xavier cost to begin with, she will need no loans until her 4th year, when she starts working on her masters while simultaneously finishing her bachelors. She will likely leave college with only a Ford Focus worth of debt, instead of a BMW 3 series worth. After 12 years of catholic school, she chose the state school based on her own cost-benefit analysis. A cautionary tale for MU.
If I had been able to persuade her to change her plans for her major....one of the state schools here will give 4 years of free tuition for a high school GPA higher than 3.9 or an ACT score higher than 29. She had both.
My son visited Xavier this summer to possibly play baseball there. Upon pulling in it seemed like a neat place. But after being there for a while and seeing the surrounding areas he/we decided the place was an entire dump. Small enclosed campus like MU's was nice but in the middleof a really crappy neighborhood. Now MU's is not in the nicest area either but the accessibility to downtown and other thngs is great. At Xavier you are extremely isolated. Was very disappointed. The baseball facility was nice and they have a decent proram, but he was not one bit interested and his parents while initially encouraging the visist were underwhelmed to say the least.
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Sorry, I mistyped, it includes everything from 7th to 10th St. Not sure about Butch's. The rest has been empty since they removed that freeway ramp loop. $9 million price tag.
Here is the article.
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/09/marquettes-9m-land-purchase-to-include-former-umb.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2014/09/marquettes-9m-land-purchase-to-include-former-umb.html)
South of Michigan, right? Nothing north of Michigan?
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South of Michigan, right? Nothing north of Michigan?
That's my understanding. North of MI is ATT, some school, a couple churches and an apartment building. I'm sure MU would be keeping an eye if any of that property becomes available.
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My son visited Xavier this summer to possibly play baseball there. Upon pulling in it seemed like a neat place. But after being there for a while and seeing the surrounding areas he/we decided the place was an entire dump. Small enclosed campus like MU's was nice but in the middleof a really crappy neighborhood. Now MU's is not in the nicest area either but the accessibility to downtown and other thngs is great. At Xavier you are extremely isolated. Was very disappointed. The baseball facility was nice and they have a decent proram, but he was not one bit interested and his parents while initially encouraging the visist were underwhelmed to say the least.
Insulting one Jesuit's area while having presumably attended another Jesuit seems a case of a pot and a kettle and the color black.
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Concur. My 30 year banking career resulted. I'd only recommend a Top 20 program. Top 5 is even better. You and I were both blessed. And it's pretty freakin' cool when one's mentor is awarded the Nobel for Economics.
Do you really tell young employees not to go back to school to earn an MBA if the program isn't top 5...or top 20? I urge my team members to go back even if it means they go to DePaul or Loyola or UIC. Statistics show that it is better to have an MBA from anywhere...than none at all. And I try to help them as much as possible when it comes to tuition reimbursement. An MU business degree isn't competitive in Chicago. Period. And it's too bad when these kids have huge loans for an undergrad degree. I can only shrug my shoulders and tell them they aren't competitive in a city loaded with UC and NU undergrads.
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Do you really tell young employees not to go back to school to earn an MBA if the program isn't top 5...or top 20? I urge my team members to go back even if it means they go to DePaul or Loyola or UIC. Statistics show that it is better to have an MBA from anywhere...than none at all. And I try to help them as much as possible when it comes to tuition reimbursement. An MU business degree isn't competitive in Chicago. Period. And it's too bad when these kids have huge loans for an undergrad degree. I can only shrug my shoulders and tell them they aren't competitive in a city loaded with UC and NU undergrads.
You know those two schools are bad right? Like we always go on about how Madison isn't that much better than us well kinda the same situation with Depaul and Loyola
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You know those two schools are bad right? Like we always go on about how Madison isn't that much better than us well kinda the same situation with Depaul and Loyola
What??!! I'm talking about employees that want to be competitive in the Chicago job market. An MBA is better than no MBA at all. Ideally, if employees can't get into UC or NU, I tell them to look at schools like USC, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Southern Methodist, Austin, Ucla, etc... There are gains to be made with degrees from those schools!
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What??!! I'm talking about employees that want to be competitive in the Chicago job market. An MBA is better than no MBA at all. Ideally, if employees can't get into UC or NU, I tell them to look at schools like USC, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Southern Methodist, Austin, Ucla, etc... There are gains to be made with degrees from those schools!
Ok I get it. just the way you put it out there reminded me of the way that wisconsin alums talk about MU alums.
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Ok I get it. just the way you put it out there reminded me of the way that wisconsin alums talk about MU alums.
I have no idea what you were getting at with your last comment. UW has an incredible undergrad program for securities valuation that MU can't compete with currently. In fact, their program is so highly regarded that it competes with Ross, NYU, and IU. It's good. I'm not from WI so I don't have an inferiority complex. UW alums are very well engrained in the fabric of the financial services industry in Chicago. The fact that we are behind UW in terms of capital markets education is nothing to be ashamed of at the moment. They pour a ton of resources into their valuation program and actually get alums to guest lecture or participate in the advisory of undergrad curriculum. I personally know two people on their advisory board that fly in a helicopter to Madison from Chicago. Silly expenditure, I know...but they believe in the program and that is what matters.
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(http://media.jrn.com/images/MARQUETTE20G.jpg)
Tiny picture here .. the building on the top left is East/YMCA. Building on the right is the Wells Fargo building with the red top.
(http://media.jrn.com/images/210*137/b99355465z.1_20140919204853_000_ggs7uu50.2-0.jpg)
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Is it big enough for a football field?
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That's where the Crean Soccer Complex is goin', hey?
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Is it big enough for a football field?
Easily.
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What??!! I'm talking about employees that want to be competitive in the Chicago job market. An MBA is better than no MBA at all. Ideally, if employees can't get into UC or NU, I tell them to look at schools like USC, Indiana, Minnesota, Michigan, Southern Methodist, Austin, Ucla, etc... There are gains to be made with degrees from those schools!
As a non-business person, can I ask why? Does an MBA demonstrate that people are better at business or finances or anything? Or is it simply the "MBA" on their resume? What does it really tell employers? Is it telling them that someone who got their MBA, but got if from University of Phoenix, would be better at their job than someone with just a bachelors?
Only reason I ask, is because I get annoyed at situations where getting another degree matters purely for the sake of the degree. If it doesn't demonstrate advanced knowledge or qualifications, why should it matter at all?
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(http://media.jrn.com/images/MARQUETTE20G.jpg)
That makes it look like it goes all the way to 6th Street. Is that right?
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NOT CORRECT.
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/veaslw.jpg)
There's ROW fence I tried to follow with this outline.
Wow. That's massive.
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Its an ugly building, but you're right, they could use it for office space at the very least, or classrooms with some remodeling.
Marquette has plenty of ugly buildings. It will fit right in. :)
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/veaslw.jpg)
There's ROW fence I tried to follow with this outline.
You went a block too far. It stops at 7th st (James Lovell), not 6th st. It also doesn't appear to include Butch's, according to the JS image.
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Sure did go too far...
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2cokg9l.jpg)
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Maybe MU bought it to donate it to the stadium fund?
(http://i60.tinypic.com/16lci9v.jpg)
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As a non-business person, can I ask why? Does an MBA demonstrate that people are better at business or finances or anything? Or is it simply the "MBA" on their resume? What does it really tell employers? Is it telling them that someone who got their MBA, but got if from University of Phoenix, would be better at their job than someone with just a bachelors?
Only reason I ask, is because I get annoyed at situations where getting another degree matters purely for the sake of the degree. If it doesn't demonstrate advanced knowledge or qualifications, why should it matter at all?
Because it should "demonstrate advancement knowledge or qualifications."
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Well wait, that image has it going to 6th Street.
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I love that Butch's Steakhouse will essentially be on campus.
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The one challenge is that the freeway isolates it from the rest of campus. The only real access is Michigan St, under the freeway (not the most attractive walk). East Hall (or whatever it's called now), doesn't feel as isolated because WI Ave goes over the freeway.
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Is this where Ellenson Hall is going?
;D
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The one challenge is that the freeway isolates it from the rest of campus. The only real access is Michigan St, under the freeway (not the most attractive walk). East Hall (or whatever it's called now), doesn't feel as isolated because WI Ave goes over the freeway.
Well students could also walk up 10th, past Straz (East), and then across the WI Ave Bridge like the students in Straz. Its just an extra 5 minutes past Straz.
But your point is well taken. Its a hike, especially from places on the far west side of Campus like the Dental School or Mashuda.
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In some ways that would have been a good place for the new law school to go. It could have been its own community over there.
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Maybe MU bought it to donate it to the stadium fund?
(http://i60.tinypic.com/16lci9v.jpg)
No joke, it's actually the 1 place that MU owns where a stadium would be possible (freeway access, install another parking ramp, etc. etc.)
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In some ways that would have been a good place for the new law school to go. It could have been its own community over there.
I thought the same thing.
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No joke, it's actually the 1 place that MU owns where a stadium would be possible (freeway access, install another parking ramp, etc. etc.)
I think this is an excellent purchase. We can't look at it for what it is today. There are many possibilities of what this parcel could be. Yes a stadium is definitely in the mix. Who knows maybe it could be part of some joint venture medical complex or some other thing not on the radar today.
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http://i58.tinypic.com/veaslw.jpg
Wow. That's massive.
Marquette Lake?
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How about a nice 500-unit apartment/restaurant/shopping complex, like that one they have at the edge of Notre Dame's campus? They could turn Campus Town into residence halls.
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How about a nice 500-unit apartment/restaurant/shopping complex, like that one they have at the edge of Notre Dame's campus? They could turn Campus Town into residence halls.
I think this a viable concept especially if it had a decent grocery store. What would be interesting is if we had a competition of sorts with builder developers etc to present the school with various plans.
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Not accurate as a blanket statement. Some of the folks teaching at UW Extensions have extensive experience in their fields and continue to work in their field. They choose not to publish or whatever else is expected of faculty at the name brands. For those families challenged with paying for multiple kids through college it is a great strategy. 2 years at a UW Extension and 2 years at a name brand for your diploma.
My niece graduated this spring top 2% of her class. Will attend a 2 year school for the basics and a name brand for her nursing degree. First 2 years complete for $12K. A diploma from a name brand. Golden.
I find the UW extensions to be the exemption to the rule, that is not the case really anywhere else in the country. I would absolutely recommend the UW extensions. I actually don't consider them JUCO's.
To extend this, the UW extensions are so good, that often their classes are actually harder.
I was over generalizing it, but the level of science education at the vast majority of JUCO's is very poor.
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How about a nice 500-unit apartment/restaurant/shopping complex, like that one they have at the edge of Notre Dame's campus? They could turn Campus Town into residence halls.
I would imagine that that kind of development would continue to happen with some of the land they own along Wells and this land will be used for some kind of academic purpose. They didn't spend $9 million just to turn it into a mixed use development that is already happening in quite a few other places downtown.
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How about a nice 500-unit apartment/restaurant/shopping complex, like that one they have at the edge of Notre Dame's campus? They could turn Campus Town into residence halls.
Sounds great. And with the space you can renovate/replace current res halls. It would do solid for student recruiting if all dorms (or at least for sophomores) were up to snuff. The McCormick style just doesn't cut it for the current generation. At least get private bathrooms so the McCormick and Schroeder kids don't have to pull a Derrick Caracter and pee in their Gatorade bottles. Making the trek from the end of the hall and listening to a drunk kid barfing when you pee just ruins any chance at getting both adequate hydration and a good night's sleep, ya know.
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Mixed use commercial, dorms and a NBA arena.
Let's make it happen, MU.
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In some ways that would have been a good place for the new law school to go. It could have been its own community over there.
I think most of us like it just where it is. Somewhat isolated, but still not too far from some food options (Tory Hill Cafe is good, but a little expensive).
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How about a nice 500-unit apartment/restaurant/shopping complex, like that one they have at the edge of Notre Dame's campus? They could turn Campus Town into residence halls.
That is a fantastic idea
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I find the UW extensions to be the exemption to the rule, that is not the case really anywhere else in the country. I would absolutely recommend the UW extensions. I actually don't consider them JUCO's.
To extend this, the UW extensions are so good, that often their classes are actually harder.
I was over generalizing it, but the level of science education at the vast majority of JUCO's is very poor.
The UW Colleges (UW Extension is something else entirely and people are misusing the phrase) are, by definition, JUCOs. You may not consider them as such, but that is exactly what they are. IMO they are a misused resource in Wisconsin.
That being said, doing two years there and transferring into a four year school is cheaper. And academically I don't think you would be missing out on anything. I'm sure Marquette does recruit those schools because those who finish those first two years are IMO less likely to be academic risks because they showed they can handle course work.
But I also think you miss out on something, socially and academically, not being on campus those first two years.
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The UW Colleges (UW Extension is something else entirely and people are misusing the phrase) are, by definition, JUCOs. You may not consider them as such, but that is exactly what they are. IMO they are a misused resource in Wisconsin.
But I also think you miss out on something, socially and academically, not being on campus those first two years.
My best friend experienced this. He went to UW-Marathon County for two years while I went to Marquette, one friend went to UW-Stevens Point and a couple friends went to UW-Madison. My friend then transferred to UW-Madison and hated it. The campus was too big, getting from class to class was a pain, not to mention the struggle to get into the classes that he wanted. He dropped out during 1st semester of his senior year to work fulltime at the place he had been working part-time. A few years later, he went back to UWSP, first part-time while working fulltime and then fulltime while working part-time. He realized it would take him into his 30's to get his degree if he stayed a part-time student. Finally got his bachelor's degree at 28.
He's doing fine professionally and financially but it took a big detour to get there. He says if he had it to do over, he would have went to UWSP right away. The smaller campus and class sizes were more suited to him, plus he says he missed out on the social aspect of college. The rest of us made all our college friends freshmen year. He knew some of our high school friends at Madison so he was quickly assimilated into their social group but there's a freedom and process of self discovery that comes from living on your own. I feel that is a very important aspect that must be weighed along with the economics of choosing a college path.
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Maybe MU bought it to donate it to the stadium fund?
(http://i60.tinypic.com/16lci9v.jpg)
What is to the north of this land. If the building are expendable, this would actually make sense as an arena location. Michigan could be closed off and that is then one hunk of land that would border Wis. Ave.
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But I also think you miss out on something, socially and academically, not being on campus those first two years.
You absolutely do. I had an awesome party and made life-long friends my first two years at Marquette. It cost me upwards of $50k to do so. Reasonable minds may differ whether that's worth it though.
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This property purchase means that Butch's Old Casino Steakhouse is officially on campus! Yesssss!
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What is to the north of this land. If the building are expendable, this would actually make sense as an arena location. Michigan could be closed off and that is then one hunk of land that would border Wis. Ave.
The mansion-ey looking building is a school of some sort. There's an old office building that was something for AT&T I think when I was there a few years back, parking lots for the Wells Fargo Building I think too, as well as getting close to the back of Straz/East and the churches that are over there.
I'm not sure MU bought that land to site a new stadium for Marc Lasry and Wes Edens though.
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The mansion-ey looking building is a school of some sort. There's an old office building that was something for AT&T I think when I was there a few years back, parking lots for the Wells Fargo Building I think too, as well as getting close to the back of Straz/East and the churches that are over there.
I'm not sure MU bought that land to site a new stadium for Marc Lasry and Wes Edens though.
I don't see MU moving north of this space. There is just too much already there.
However this is a great purchase, lots of currently empty land and a chance to frame the other side of the Marquette Interchange, complimenting the new law school building.
I hope it is mostly green space/ornamentation (like the gates and markers they have on Wisconsin Ave.), with one signature new-construction building, preferably a taller one at least 6 or 7 stories, in the same style as the other MU buildings (think Zilber Hall or Raynor Library) that clearly stands out when driving on the Marquette Interchange.
Whether the building is for student housing or academics doesn't really matter to me, as long as it matches the rest of the other new-construction buildings on campus.
All that said, after this purchase I hope MU refocuses its expansion plans to the west. There is so much opportunity to improve the neighborhood and lots of empty lots/unused buildings that could be had for cheap. Creation of more buffer zones (academic buildings, ornamentation, etc.) between 20th and 23rd streets means safer students who live in the 16th-20th street section of campus.
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However this is a great purchase, lots of currently empty land and a chance to frame the other side of the Marquette Interchange, complimenting the new law school building.
Whoever the architect is seems to have a very cohesive and visually appealing vision for the campus. I'm sure we're going to end up with something great.
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All that said, after this purchase I hope MU refocuses its expansion plans to the west. There is so much opportunity to improve the neighborhood and lots of empty lots/unused buildings that could be had for cheap. Creation of more buffer zones (academic buildings, ornamentation, etc.) between 20th and 23rd streets means safer students who live in the 16th-20th street section of campus.
I'd love for them to move north as well. Only a couple blocks north of Wisconsin is State and you don't want to be farther north of that.
I like the idea of improving Marquette's part of the city and hopefully being an anchor to revitalize to the west. (More hope than likelihood unfortunately I'm afraid)
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That is a fantastic idea
Here is a picture from Google Street view of the ND area I am talking about: https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Notre+Dame+Investment+Office/@41.6922342,-86.2355024,3a,90y,276.53h,85.94t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s10RdJp6fivPA8PAigN3t-w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xef72c91cf6cb3515!6m1!1e1
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I'd love for them to move north as well. Only a couple blocks north of Wisconsin is State and you don't want to be farther north of that.
I like the idea of improving Marquette's part of the city and hopefully being an anchor to revitalize to the west. (More hope than likelihood unfortunately I'm afraid)
It seemed like there was some momentum with the new dental school, 2040 lofts, Ambassador Hotel, etc.
Hopefully they keep it moving.
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Here is a picture from Google Street view of the ND area I am talking about: https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Notre+Dame+Investment+Office/@41.6922342,-86.2355024,3a,90y,276.53h,85.94t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s10RdJp6fivPA8PAigN3t-w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xef72c91cf6cb3515!6m1!1e1
Not too different from what Campus Town is.
I agree this is the future of student housing. Retail on the first floor is huge.
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Here is a picture from Google Street view of the ND area I am talking about: https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Notre+Dame+Investment+Office/@41.6922342,-86.2355024,3a,90y,276.53h,85.94t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s10RdJp6fivPA8PAigN3t-w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xef72c91cf6cb3515!6m1!1e1
I'm not saying MU can't do something like this, but the driver for ND's economy is football.
Big time donors flying in on Saturdays in the fall. I believe a lot of those condos are sold to such people.
Thus, they have a specific need for high end retail and shopping.
MU doesn't have that, but obviously it has the advantage of being in the city, so it can draw from the surrounding neighborhoods. However, MU's neighborhood isn't exactly high-end, so there might not be a big enough market to support retail in that neighborhood.
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The mansion-ey looking building is a school of some sort. There's an old office building that was something for AT&T I think when I was there a few years back, parking lots for the Wells Fargo Building I think too, as well as getting close to the back of Straz/East and the churches that are over there.
I'm not sure MU bought that land to site a new stadium for Marc Lasry and Wes Edens though.
I know that the intent is not to build an arena at this location. And, I suspect that the NY guys want something more downtown so they can create value for themselves in adjacent properties, etc. However, this location if the land to the north could be secured and isn't too valuable (and it doesn't sound like it is, other than the problem with old church property), would actually make a nice location for an arena. And, it would be great location for MU games!
Maybe it will be the location of MU's on campus arena... :)
On a side note, it is really too bad that the 794 spur or whatever it is can't be taken down and located at ground level as a boulevard. It is an eye soar and really divides the 3rd ward from the downtown.
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On a side note, it is really too bad that the 794 spur or whatever it is can't be taken down and located at ground level as a boulevard. It is an eye soar and really divides the 3rd ward from the downtown.
Not to get too off topic, but Norquist wanted this to happen back when the Park East spur was taken down. I heard that he essentially had to compromise with WisDOT, etc: give up the 794 fight so the Park East could be dismantled.
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The one place I can guarantee that it is worth it to fill out the forms is Dayton. Even if you are a billionaire, if you fill out the forms, books and fees are covered. If you don't, you pay for them.
Who pays for the Chevy Cavalier?
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I'm not saying MU can't do something like this, but the driver for ND's economy is football.
Big time donors flying in on Saturdays in the fall. I believe a lot of those condos are sold to such people.
Thus, they have a specific need for high end retail and shopping.
MU doesn't have that, but obviously it has the advantage of being in the city, so it can draw from the surrounding neighborhoods. However, MU's neighborhood isn't exactly high-end, so there might not be a big enough market to support retail in that neighborhood.
Can enough sales be generated by weekend visitors? If South Bend is the same as I remember it, it's an armpit. Not sure if high-end retail can fly in that town.
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Who pays for the Chevy Cavalier?
(http://i.imgur.com/L1LRnMO.gif)
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Can enough sales be generated by weekend visitors? If South Bend is the same as I remember it, it's an armpit. Not sure if high-end retail can fly in that town.
It's not in south bend, it's in Notre Dame, meaning the high end retail/restaurants are basically on campus.
Notre Dame is no longer in South Bend, and honestly, doesn't have a very close relationship with the town. ND is it's own animal. It's now "Notre Dame, Indiana."
The amount of donor $ coming through ND on Saturday afternoons is insane. Makes MU look like peanuts.
EDIT: Correction, the eddy st. commons are technically in South Bend, right next to campus (walking distance).
http://eddycommons.com/
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Can enough sales be generated by weekend visitors? If South Bend is the same as I remember it, it's an armpit. Not sure if high-end retail can fly in that town.
I think you agree that it isn't football weekends that keep that going. It has to be students, visitors, facility on the other 44 weekends and 52 weeks that keep it going. And, of course, some residents as well.
This isn't going to work on the new MU land, due to it's location. But admin buildings or condos/apartments could work along with some minor retail or some retail special enough to bring people to the location.
My guess is MU bought the land because it was bear campus and available, and will decide what to do with it later... which could even include some type of sports complex in the future due to it's location.
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I think you agree that it isn't football weekends that keep that going. It has to be students, visitors, facility on the other 44 weekends and 52 weeks that keep it going. And, of course, some residents as well.
This isn't going to work on the new MU land, due to it's location. But admin buildings or condos/apartments could work along with some minor retail or some retail special enough to bring people to the location.
My guess is MU bought the land because it was bear campus and available, and will decide what to do with it later... which could even include some type of sports complex in the future due to it's location.
Yes and no.
I honestly can't say that retailers are singularly supported by football, but like most retailers, they really make money a handful of weeks per year (for most retailers, it's the holidays), and basically survive the rest of the year.
Well, in ND, the "holiday season" is really Sept/Oct/Nov. They might get some hoops business to.
MU doesn't have anything that draws 60K+ plus people to it's campus several times per year.
Oh, and I'm using the term "high end retail" generically. It's basically "high end" compared to MU and Grand Ave.
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I think you agree that it isn't football weekends that keep that going. It has to be students, visitors, facility on the other 44 weekends and 52 weeks that keep it going. And, of course, some residents as well.
This isn't going to work on the new MU land, due to it's location. But admin buildings or condos/apartments could work along with some minor retail or some retail special enough to bring people to the location.
My guess is MU bought the land because it was bear campus and available, and will decide what to do with it later... which could even include some type of sports complex in the future due to it's location.
Soccer/Lacrosse/Indoor Training complex where teams can practice/play games when the Wisconsin winters take hold. These field houses can be done relatively inexpensively and provide the necessary support for two sports in need of a facility like this. This will help tremendously in recruiting for those sports. And success in other sports can only enhance the basketball program, as well as the entire school in general.
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If a fieldhouse is built, which is what I'm hoping for, do you think it would be open to all students or only athletes? It would be cool if you could play intermural soccer, football, etc all year round.
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If a fieldhouse is built, which is what I'm hoping for, do you think it would be open to all students or only athletes? It would be cool if you could play intermural soccer, football, etc all year round.
Typically they are available for ALL students, not just athletes. The teams have priority, but there is usually plenty of availability for student events that don't have anything to do with varsity sports. These facilities bring a fun dynamic to the students who enjoy watching the sports, and also want to get involved athletically.
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Typically they are available for ALL students, not just athletes. The teams have priority, but there is usually plenty of availability for student events that don't have anything to do with varsity sports. These facilities bring a fun dynamic to the students who enjoy watching the sports, and also want to get involved athletically.
It would be open to all students, but you are going to be playing intramural soccer games at midnight.
Which, if you are on a student schedule, isn't all that bad.
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The meet President Lovell event was in NYC last night.
An interesting discussion. It was moderated by a MU alum from Boston. She's class of '99 and does reporting for Comcast Sportsnet Boston for the Celtics. Kaczmarek?
He seems to have some interesting out-of-the box thoughts for the university improvement, but nothing crazy or outlandish so all sounding very doable.
He touched on the new tech campus at the Medical Center of Wisconsin, a $5mil development fund for people to come to the university or students to develop their ideas into a product or service, joining a clean water research program in DT Milwaukee and the Avenues West program where all the major employers in the area, like Harley, Miller, the Pabst Mansion & Marquette among others try to clean-up & improve 2 blocks surrounding themselves with the end result an improved & more desirable section of Milwaukee.
(I think all of these have been mentioned on Scoop.)
He mentioned the vacant lot the university just purchased and he said one of the things being considered is a "Fieldhouse" (my words) - a rec center with an indoor track paired with some kind of sports/health research study program. He said it's too far away for an academic building since students often only have 10 minutes between classes. It sounds like they don't want a dorm there either for similar reasons. Nothing written in stone.
He's an avid runner for sure, a marathoner.
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It was a good event last night -- really well attended. I just left feeling that they picked a good leader, who has a ton of energy to enact change and understands what is special about Marquette - first impression is good.
I was also happy to hear the commitment to maintaining a national brand and world class sports.
Finally thought it was positive that Val Ackerman was in attendance.
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The meet President Lovell event was in NYC last night.
An interesting discussion. It was moderated by a MU alum from Boston. She's class of '99 and does reporting for Comcast Sportsnet Boston for the Celtics. Kaczmarek?
He seems to have some interesting out-of-the box thoughts for the university improvement, but nothing crazy or outlandish so all sounding very doable.
He touched on the new tech campus at the Medical Center of Wisconsin, a $5mil development fund for people to come to the university or students to develop their ideas into a product or service, joining a clean water research program in DT Milwaukee and the Avenues West program where all the major employers in the area, like Harley, Miller, the Pabst Mansion & Marquette among others try to clean-up & improve 2 blocks surrounding themselves with the end result an improved & more desirable section of Milwaukee.
(I think all of these have been mentioned on Scoop.)
He mentioned the vacant lot the university just purchased and he said one of the things being considered is a "Fieldhouse" (my words) - a rec center with an indoor track paired with some kind of sports/health research study program. He said it's too far away for an academic building since students often only have 10 minutes between classes. It sounds like they don't want a dorm there either for similar reasons. Nothing written in stone.
He's an avid runner for sure, a marathoner.
Trenni Kusnierek, use to do the sideline reporting for the Brewers
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The meet President Lovell event was in NYC last night.
An interesting discussion. It was moderated by a MU alum from Boston. She's class of '99 and does reporting for Comcast Sportsnet Boston for the Celtics. Kaczmarek?
Must have been the audio...tough to get her name? ;)
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Must have been the audio...tough to get her name? ;)
How was the food? Did you win any door prizes?
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He mentioned the vacant lot the university just purchased and he said one of the things being considered is a "Fieldhouse" (my words) - a rec center with an indoor track paired with some kind of sports/health research study program.
What a fantastic idea, to add to the overhead costs, so tuition can keep going higher.
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Yup, and the difference in pay for Private college grads vs public grads is an even bigger disparity. I get where Hilltopper is going, but I think his comments are more applicable to private schools that don't cut it. This is why, in my opinion, MU has to do everything they can to justify the expense, not have a race to the bottom. If you can provide value, if your graduates are successful and have high earning potential, then bright students will pay the cost to attend because the ROI makes sense. Right now, I'd call MU's ROI a wash, they need to do better and the time is now. For those private schools that are equally expensive, but not churning out productive graduates, the justification to attend those schools (lower ranked, poor earners, etc) is a reality that future students can't ignore.
This is a good point. Private = Better. In Chicago there are many schools like Robert Morris College which I'm sure do a fine job. But is it really any better than going to U of I - Chicago for in state tuition? Or much cheaper than going to DePaul or Loyola-Chicago?
At the extreme, all online schools like Phoenix etc are all "private" schools. In fact, they are so private they are FOR profit, basically money making operations.
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What a fantastic idea, to add to the overhead costs, so tuition can keep going higher.
To be fair, what is the new president suppose to say to get alumni excited?
"We're going to tighten our belts. Nothing new is going to happen at MU for a looooong time."
They are always going to be promoting something new and exciting, especially for a new president.
Now, we'll see what happens with all of this. If they aren't careful, they will spend themselves into a spot they can't get out of. A new rec center is great, but not if enrollment dips and tuition continues to rise. That's an almost impossible spot to get out of... and shiny new buildings aren't worth anything if they aren't getting used.
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What a fantastic idea, to add to the overhead costs, so tuition can keep going higher.
He addressed this actually. He envisions the Innovation Fund to be used to find ways to make college operations more efficient (adopting technology or new ways to deliver learning/content). He also envisions these new initiatives to be partnerships (public/private or co-development with other universities). Pie in the sky I know but he even says that tuition may be able to hold/decline if they are successful in some of these endeavors.
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I was actually at a presentation by an economist the other day who said that college tuition should actually be rising faster. That with the growing income difference between those with and without a college degree, that college tuition should actually be about 20% higher than it is right now.
He said that there are a number of factors that are preventing this. First, is politics. Second, is that parents pay a good portion of the college costs but don't participate in the economic benefits. Third, are cash flow issues - he believes that the governments loan programs should be expanded significantly and that such expansion would be beneficial for both the borrower and the lender.
It was interesting to say the least.
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I was actually at a presentation by an economist the other day who said that college tuition should actually be rising faster. That with the growing income difference between those with and without a college degree, that college tuition should actually be about 20% higher than it is right now.
He said that there are a number of factors that are preventing this. First, is politics. Second, is that parents pay a good portion of the college costs but don't participate in the economic benefits. Third, are cash flow issues - he believes that the governments loan programs should be expanded significantly and that such expansion would be beneficial for both the borrower and the lender.
It was interesting to say the least.
I don't know how he justifies that from a total debt prospective. Raising costs of student debt suck up more of the revenue generated by having a college degree to the point it chokes out other debt opportunities (car, house, etc). Additionally, the debt taken on to acquire the higher revenue doesn't balance out a lot of time.
His argument makes sense based on certain majors I would like like IT and engineering but not from a generic college degree standpoint.
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I don't know how he justifies that from a total debt prospective. Raising costs of student debt suck up more of the revenue generated by having a college degree to the point it chokes out other debt opportunities (car, house, etc). Additionally, the debt taken on to acquire the higher revenue doesn't balance out a lot of time.
His argument makes sense based on certain majors I would like like IT and engineering but not from a generic college degree standpoint.
Yeah well...he didn't go into that last part with as much detail. Or maybe he did and I just can't remember it.
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This is a good point. Private = Better. In Chicago there are many schools like Robert Morris College which I'm sure do a fine job. But is it really any better than going to U of I - Chicago for in state tuition? Or much cheaper than going to DePaul or Loyola-Chicago?
At the extreme, all online schools like Phoenix etc are all "private" schools. In fact, they are so private they are FOR profit, basically money making operations.
I don't see all the recruiting material but know a lot of the people involved, I don't think MU does a good job with the ROI argument. I think MU leans too much on the whole person campaign, which while great and a corner stone of what makes MU, well MU....I don't know that it will continue to drive positive results. Maybe it's because MU doesn't have a strong play with ROI, which is an issue, they need to improve that. Or maybe teenagers are really touchy feely with college choices and impacting the rest of their lives with a decision isn't a factor :)
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Third, are cash flow issues - he believes that the governments loan programs should be expanded significantly and that such expansion would be beneficial for both the borrower and the lender.
Government loan programs are part of the reason we got here today. There's nothing holding back schools from charging more when they know their students are guaranteed to get the money from somewhere.
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Government loan programs are part of the reason we got here today. There's nothing holding back schools from charging more when they know their students are guaranteed to get the money from somewhere.
His point is that "where we are today" isn't nearly as bad as it is made out to be.
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Fieldhouse will actually enhance the economics of the school:
Better facilities, better recruits, better teams, better exposure ----> more kids who would not be interested in going to Marquette will now be willing to come, including many paying close to sticker price.
Additionally, many more donations to the school based on sports success.
Lastly, if you are not investing in the school, you are actually taking a step back. Status quo can never be an option.
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Fieldhouse will actually enhance the economics of the school:
Better facilities, better recruits, better teams, better exposure ----> more kids who would not be interested in going to Marquette will now be willing to come, including many paying close to sticker price.
Additionally, many more donations to the school based on sports success.
Lastly, if you are not investing in the school, you are actually taking a step back. Status quo can never be an option.
Pres. Lovell sort of alluded to this. He said along the lines of "the thing we hear most often from students on desirability to have is some sort of indoor facility since winter can be long in Milwaukee."
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Pres. Lovell sort of alluded to this. He said along the lines of "the thing we hear most often from students on desirability to have is some sort of indoor facility since winter can be long in Milwaukee."
Frankly, I am surprised we recruit as well as we do in the outdoor sports. I would think it would be hard to convince a top player to come to Milwaukee if he or she has similar offers for schools in the South or West. You are basically freezing your ass off for most of the season for both practices and games, whether it's a spring sport or fall.
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Frankly, I am surprised we recruit as well as we do in the outdoor sports. I would think it would be hard to convince a top player to come to Milwaukee if he or she has similar offers for schools in the South or West. You are basically freezing your ass off for most of the season for both practices and games, whether it's a spring sport or fall.
Many would argue that it's a better alternative than sweating your ass off.
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The quickest way to get campus expansion would be to add more soft serve machines in the mess halls, aina?
(Head nod to 4ever)
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Fieldhouse will actually enhance the economics of the school:
Better facilities, better recruits, better teams, better exposure ----> more kids who would not be interested in going to Marquette will now be willing to come, including many paying close to sticker price.
Additionally, many more donations to the school based on sports success.
Lastly, if you are not investing in the school, you are actually taking a step back. Status quo can never be an option.
So you're saying that some kid from Chicago is going to come to Marquette because they NOW have the best shot-putting program in the country.
Increasing exposure can only be associated with a Football or Basketball team's (maybe Hockey) success.
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So you're saying that some kid from Chicago is going to come to Marquette because they NOW have the best shot-putting program in the country.
Increasing exposure can only be associated with a Football or Basketball team's (maybe Hockey) success.
I obviously agree that hoops exposure, by far, pays the most dividends for Marquette. But I also know that better facilities can attract great student/athletes who play soccer and lacrosse, and these are kids who normally would have looked elsewhere, that's all. And you'd be surprised at the checks that some of the Olympic sport parents are willing to write to support the school.
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So you're saying that some kid from Chicago is going to come to Marquette because they NOW have the best shot-putting program in the country.
Increasing exposure can only be associated with a Football or Basketball team's (maybe Hockey) success.
No, what he or she is saying is that an investment in facilities will create more demand.
My interpretation of Lovell's comments is that the facility would be for all students, not student athletes.
I toured Miami University (OH) years ago before ultimately choosing MU. Those that have been there know what a beautiful campus it is. What stood out most, however, was their state of the art rec center. It left a lasting impression and was a strong selling point.
MU's recreational facilities are seriously inferior. Take a look across town at MSOE's Kern Center for a comparison. An investment in a new facility is long overdue and would be money well spent.
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No, what he or she is saying is that an investment in facilities will create more demand.
My interpretation of Lovell's comments is that the facility would be for all students, not student athletes.
I toured Miami University (OH) years ago before ultimately choosing MU. Those that have been there know what a beautiful campus it is. What stood out most, however, was their state of the art rec center. It left a lasting impression and was a strong selling point.
MU's recreational facilities are seriously inferior. Take a look across town at MSOE's Kern Center for a comparison. An investment in a new facility is long overdue and would be money well spent.
Or even Carthage College. Their sports facilities are amazing.
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I obviously agree that hoops exposure, by far, pays the most dividends for Marquette. But I also know that better facilities can attract great student/athletes who play soccer and lacrosse, and these are kids who normally would have looked elsewhere, that's all. And you'd be surprised at the checks that some of the Olympic sport parents are willing to write to support the school.
Or even Olympic Sports alum. Last year I sat in front of a guy who was a track athlete back in the 60's (state HS champion in two different states in the same year - his family moved) and now he is considered one of the more important donors the school has.
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Or even Carthage College. Their sports facilities are amazing.
Yes, I did not mean to suggest it was for student athletes only. I am sure they will use it for practices during the colder months, but I envision it would be available to ALL of Marquette, which would be beneficial to the entire student body.
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UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.
If UW-O can have it, we should too.
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I hope they find a better use for this land than a fieldhouse. It would be nice if they could use the close proximity to downtown to do something that further connects MU to the downtown business community. As others have mentioned, I think it would have been a better location for the law school. A fieldhouse would be nice, but there's a lot of cheap land to the west that could be used for that purpose since the location wouldn't be as important.
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UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.
If UW-O can have it, we should too.
Right, so if UW-O's facilities are so great, do a lot of kids chose it instead of MU?
I'm not saying that facilities aren't important, but I don't think they are a magic bullet that some people are making them out to be.
Capital improvements need to be measured against needs and long term planning.
They should not be built for marketing purposes. You want better marketing? Hire better marketers. Changing the box doesn't = more sales.
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I guess I wasn't making some sort of "if you build it they will come, just like they all go to UW-O" argument.
I was just pointing out that a non-flagship UW school has an absolutely spectacular facility. I'd like to think that we can/should be on at least equal ground with every state school in Wisconsin when it comes to facilities (excluding perhaps labs at UW-Madison, though if I had build a building $ to donate new labs would be the first thing I'd build at MU)
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Are the Rec Center and Rec Plex really that far behind? It's been at least 10 years since I've been in either facility, and over 15 years since I've used either regularly, but I thought they were decent at the time. A better indoor running track would be nice, but there were plenty of bball courts and the weight/exercise machines all seemed up to date. Also, is a new building necessary to for an upgrade? Couldn't they just renovate the current facilities?
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Are the Rec Center and Rec Plex really that far behind? It's been at least 10 years since I've been in either facility, and over 15 years since I've used either regularly, but I thought they were decent at the time. A better indoor running track would be nice, but there were plenty of bball courts and the weight/exercise machines all seemed up to date. Also, is a new building necessary to for an upgrade? Couldn't they just renovate the current facilities?
Theyre bad. Just because they are really small. Rec Center has nice tennis courts but 3/4 the time the tennis team has them. Basketball courts are fine but you can wait up to half an hour for a game in there. Rec Plex wright room is pretty awful and they have a small court and a really small court. Plex is fine the way it is because its on the complete east side of campus and not a lot of people venture out there but the rex center at least needs to be made bigger.
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However in response to other facilities, Marquette has started slowly but surely. The new interior in Marquette Hall and Sensenbrener are really really nice. New offices and everything. They are doing the same with Coughlin so that will be nice too. Exercise Science labs in Cramer are up to date but Chem, Bio, and Physics labs are pretty awful.
So in terms of offices, there has been a ton of work done and it has been really nice but for classrooms and labs, not so much besides the PT and exercise physiology department.
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The entire block behind the Blood Center adjacent the Rec Center would seem like a better place for a fieldhouse or expanded rec center than this new piece of land. Heck, they could even use the entire next block behind the dental school, close down 18th St., and make a massive facility spanning those 2 blocks. There's not much else on that land.
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I guess I wasn't making some sort of "if you build it they will come, just like they all go to UW-O" argument.
I was just pointing out that a non-flagship UW school has an absolutely spectacular facility. I'd like to think that we can/should be on at least equal ground with every state school in Wisconsin when it comes to facilities (excluding perhaps labs at UW-Madison, though if I had build a building $ to donate new labs would be the first thing I'd build at MU)
Yes and no for me.
I'm not sure a kick ass rec-center is central to MU's mission.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, but I'd put it father down the list than most people.
Facilities aren't what make the school.
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The entire block behind the Blood Center adjacent the Rec Center would seem like a better place for a fieldhouse or expanded rec center than this new piece of land. Heck, they could even use the entire next block behind the dental school, close down 18th St., and make a massive facility spanning those 2 blocks. There's not much else on that land.
From the 500 and 600 blocks of 18th-20th street. (Behind the blood center for 2 blocks) There is only 1 apartment building, the childcare center and a parking lot that takes up an entire square block. Easily movable.
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I was actually at a presentation by an economist the other day who said that college tuition should actually be rising faster. That with the growing income difference between those with and without a college degree, that college tuition should actually be about 20% higher than it is right now.
He said that there are a number of factors that are preventing this. First, is politics. Second, is that parents pay a good portion of the college costs but don't participate in the economic benefits. Third, are cash flow issues - he believes that the governments loan programs should be expanded significantly and that such expansion would be beneficial for both the borrower and the lender.
It was interesting to say the least.
Was the economist a professor at a university?
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Was the economist a professor at a university?
Adjunct. Not his primary source of income.
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UW-Oshkosh has one of the best gym/rec center facilities I've ever been in. Gorgeous, multiple bball courts, indoor track, rock climbing wall, many many benches, olympic power lifting racks, squat racks, and exercise machines, and that's just the stuff that I've seen.
If UW-O can have it, we should too.
I agree. Our facilities are an embarrassment. A fieldhouse would serve the entire campus and really help the Olympic Sports efforts. Winter is long and having a facilty like that would make a huge difference in attracting top flight kids.
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Fieldhouse will actually enhance the economics of the school:
Better facilities, better recruits, better teams, better exposure ----> more kids who would not be interested in going to Marquette will now be willing to come, including many paying close to sticker price.
Additionally, many more donations to the school based on sports success.
Lastly, if you are not investing in the school, you are actually taking a step back. Status quo can never be an option.
Agree completely. Not just athletes, but the entire student experience. You can't keep the status quo and expect future students to want to come and live, attend class, work out all in sub par facilities. These things attract more and more talented students, more alumni pride, more corporate interest...it's a great investment in the long run.
And as others have said, our Rec Center is a joke.
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Agree completely. Not just athletes, but the entire student experience. You can't keep the status quo and expect future students to want to come and live, attend class, work out all in sub par facilities. These things attract more and more talented students, more alumni pride, more corporate interest...it's a great investment in the long run.
And as others have said, our Rec Center is a joke.
I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.
The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?
Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.
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Expansion of the campus to add an arena is not going to add to the cost of tuition. All new construction is paid for by donations, not student tuition. This is a big difference between public and private schools. A new building on a state college campus in Wisconsin will be paid for primarily by taxpayers (70%).
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I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.
The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?
Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.
Keeping up with facilities is the cost of doing business. I cannot tell you how many times my kids, as well as their friends, commented on that when they were looking at colleges. MU has to keep up.
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Expansion of the campus to add an arena is not going to add to the cost of tuition. All new construction is paid for by donations, not student tuition. This is a big difference between public and private schools. A new building on a state college campus in Wisconsin will be paid for primarily by taxpayers (70%).
No free lunches.
Those donations could be used for other things, like payroll, tuition, operating costs, etc.
Now, maybe some of those donations do not come without a specific capital campaign, but still, the buildings aren't "free" just because a donor gives you a check.
As far as the "cost of doing business", I'm not saying that MU can just stand still and never improve, but there seems to be a lot of "Ya! Build it!" going on in this thread, with little regard for what that means in the big picture.
We lament when MU tears down a bar and builds campus apartments, but then we want them to tear down a rec center just so they can have a newer one? Maybe just a remodel/refresh would be enough?
The school has experienced tremendous growth in the past 20 years, and it should continue to grow... but cranking out a bunch of new buildings is not "marketing", and should not be viewed in such a manner.
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From the 500 and 600 blocks of 18th-20th street. (Behind the blood center for 2 blocks) There is only 1 apartment building, the childcare center and a parking lot that takes up an entire square block. Easily movable.
The parking lots on 18th and 19th serve the dental school clinic patients and the dental school students and faculty. Essentially unmovable.
There are three apartment buildings between 18th & 20th, plus Miss Katie's.
If we're talking about a fieldhouse facility, we're talking about something that's multiple football/soccer/lacrosse fields in length or width.
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I don't entirely disagree, but that's one side of the equation.
The other side is: Will students be willing to pay 60K per year because MU has a great rec center? How about 100K per year?
Capital improvements are fun and all, but it needs to be balanced against the actual needs of the school. This isn't government. MU can't just keep cranking out new facilities without an eye on the net result.
I think a couple of key questions in all of this are: What is happening with Marquette's applications? What is happening with the overall quality of students?
Like a lot of others on here, I think capital projects are great. I've been visiting a lot of campuses in the past year and I suspected that Marquette had fallen behind because there hadn't been new dorms or rec center since when I was there (I hadn't heard about McCabe). Other colleges have beautiful new dorms and rec centers.
But, if the answer to the questions above are that both are going up (more applications and higher quality of students), I don't necessarily buy into the knee-jerk "we have to build to be competitive" response. Marquette certainly cannot let its facilities fall into disrepair, but if they're still getting high numbers of good students, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they must build new dorms or a new rec center.
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No free lunches.
We lament when MU tears down a bar and builds campus apartments, but then we want them to tear down a rec center just so they can have a newer one? Maybe just a remodel/refresh would be enough?
One of the two buildings in your analogy was beloved; the other seemingly has never had a good word said about it.
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I think a couple of key questions in all of this are: What is happening with Marquette's applications? What is happening with the overall quality of students?
Like a lot of others on here, I think capital projects are great. I've been visiting a lot of campuses in the past year and I suspected that Marquette had fallen behind because there hadn't been new dorms or rec center since when I was there (I hadn't heard about McCabe). Other colleges have beautiful new dorms and rec centers.
But, if the answer to the questions above are that both are going up (more applications and higher quality of students), I don't necessarily buy into the knee-jerk "we have to build to be competitive" response. Marquette certainly cannot let its facilities fall into disrepair, but if they're still getting high numbers of good students, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that they must build new dorms or a new rec center.
A lot of universities are "refreshing" their student rec centers. Our company is finishing up our 3rd such facility in Texas and recently hosted officials from about 50 universities in the US who are looking at updating or building entirely new rec centers...seems to be the "in" thing to do at the moment.
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One of the two buildings in your analogy was beloved; the other seemingly has never had a good word said about it.
I understand the sentimentally, but from a practicality standpoint, the new apartments were a significant upgrade for MU. Tearing down the rec center to simply build a new rec center seems like a minor upgrade at best.
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Wasn't there rumblings that Dr. Lovell was going to be launching a new capital campaign? Maybe he ties part of that campaign to targeted fundraising for one facility or another. If he gets donations given with the specific earmark for a new facility does that change your opinion of building one?
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Wasn't there rumblings that Dr. Lovell was going to be launching a new capital campaign? Maybe he ties part of that campaign to targeted fundraising for one facility or another. If he gets donations given with the specific earmark for a new facility does that change your opinion of building one?
Ya, I guess so. I've have to see their campaign/plan.
I don't mean to sound like such a wet blanket on all of this... I just hope MU has a good long term vision, and they are able to evaluate needs vs wants.
Cranking out a bunch of new buildings and continuing to raise tuition every year isn't a good long term. Stay true to the school's Jesuit mission, and they can't go wrong.
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A little OT but,
Does 2nd Floor McCormick still have the Star Wars murals? I would be surprised if they were still there.