MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jeffreyweee on September 17, 2014, 10:54:18 PM
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When did you know he'd be a special college player?
When did you know he'd be a special NBA player?
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I knew he'd be special when the NBA players visiting the old Gym for pick up games when he was a freshman prop-48 redshirt referred to him repeatedly as the best player in the gym.
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I knew he'd be special when the NBA players visiting the old Gym for pick up games when he was a freshman prop-48 redshirt referred to him repeatedly as the best player in the gym.
88 points in 1 day in HS (2 games, Christmas tourney) was one
That East Carolina dunk was another
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I knew he'd be special when the NBA players visiting the old Gym for pick up games when he was a freshman prop-48 redshirt referred to him repeatedly as the best player in the gym.
Agreed. Those comments pretty much answered both questions, college and NBA.
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His first game against Loyola at the BC. His movement, his athleticism, he was everywhere. Knew we had something special on our hands, and then he went off in Alaska and the rest is history.
As far as his pro career... the playoffs his rookie year.
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Agreed. Those comments pretty much answered both questions, college and NBA.
Yup.
Lots of Rosiak's chatter about Wade made him the best player on the team but wasn't eligible to play.
When you read and heard his name mentioned more than some of the starters, you knew he was special.
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His first game against Loyola at the BC. His movement, his athleticism, he was everywhere. Knew we had something special on our hands, and then he went off in Alaska and the rest is history.
Yup, same here.
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His first game against Loyola at the BC. His movement, his athleticism, he was everywhere. Knew we had something special on our hands, and then he went off in Alaska and the rest is history.
As far as his pro career... the playoffs his rookie year.
Ditto on both accounts.
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My wife and I were recently married and would sometimes scrounge MU tickets at Goolsbys before the game. In December 2001, we got tickets from an alum that were lower level seats near the court. It was an early season game (I think it was North Texas State, or some team like that), and there was already a buzz about Wade.
Somewhere in the first half he put on a delayed dribble, split two defenders, and postered two other defenders with a thunderous, one-hand dunk. Our seats put us about 3 feet above the rim, and I swear the basketball was eye level. I saw Jordan play at the MECCA early in his career, and it was like seeing Jordan in a Marquette uniform.
Second best dunk I've seen in person, Tyrone Baldwin had a perfectly timed put-back dunk against the Badgers in 1988, but as nice as that dunk was, Tyrone had no where near the athleticism of Wade.
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Over the years I have had several moments where it was obvious someone was going to be not only a pro, but a very good one. Back in the day, Terry Cummings comes to mind. He put the Blue Demons on his shoulders at the Milwaukee Arena. When we would run another player at him, he would calmly turn a 20 foot shot into a bank shot or fake and take a relaxed jumper. He just had the ability to slow the game down. He would shoot on the way up. He would shoot on the way down.
Rod Strickland is another. He was a tool. Down in Rosemont, I had very good seats. He was taunting the MU players and the fans the whole game, even though Depaul was behind. In the last 5 minutes of the game, he took over and we lost. Total cocky confidence and he backed it up. This was a game that Mike Flory really had a great game.
Back to Wade. I knew he was special based on other's accounts. I saw him early in the season and said "wow". I really knew he was more than at another level when we played Wisconsin and they had 6 players on the court for a good part of the game (one of them was wearing black and white stripes).
With all I had heard and all I had seen (mostly on a 10" black and white tv with rabbit ears for an antenna in Minocqua), I knew he was very good. I remember the times I said to myself that he is even better than I thought. It happened several times, even after he bacame a pro. I remember MU playing Louisville at the Bradley Center. He was giving Louisville fits. I sit pretty much opposite end of the floor to the band. About 6 rows up. The players come in right by our seats. On the left baseline at the 3 line, Wade had the ball in his right hand. He faked a behind the back dribble toward the baseline. 4 Louisville players went for this fake. His guy and another guy actually ended up on the ground at the baseline. He cuffed it and brought it back to his right hand and went right to the hoop for a huge dunk. Took him about a millisecond.
Of course, the Kentucky game in 2003. He was all over that game. He had a great game against Missouri and Pittsburgh too. I remember watching Pitt foul him. He was in the lane about 3 feet north of the block on the right side. He followed through for one of the best three point plays I have ever seen. It was a hard fould. (Aside: Makes me want to pop the punks who I play against who shout "and one" every time they shoot a layup. One kid said it every time he shot. I actually called a timeout (not allowed) and told him that an "and one" had to have a foul involved.)
When he went to Miami, it appeared to be Shaq's team...then it wasn't. Wade had one of the best Finals performances in the history of the NBA. He did more with less of a supporting cast, including an aging Shaq, then any superstar ever. ESPN agreed with this assessment. I don't know how to link it, but if you Google "greatest NBA finals performances" this comes up. I tried to past the link below.
Yes, he was special. Still is.
Uhttp://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1
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I knew he'd be special when the NBA players visiting the old Gym for pick up games when he was a freshman prop-48 redshirt referred to him repeatedly as the best player in the gym.
Heard the same. Didn't believe it.
To this day Wade is the best college player I've ever seen in person.
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I realized it the first game he played. I think the country realized it during the first game in the Alaskan Shootout where he destroyed Tennessee. I do not think Tennessee had a clue about how good he was.
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What made Wade so good beyond the physical talent, was he had/has a cerebral feel for the game. HIs basketball IQ is off the charts. Saw the floor incredibly well, could anticipate teammates reactions to his penetration, and truly made everyone around him better. Wade, while explosive, also realized that playing with rhythm is more important than playing with just flat out burst. Wade was always in control - contrast that with a DJO (who I loved), yet DJO played at one speed, and one speed only, and it often led to him being out of control.
I saw some similar potential in Deonte last season - like Wade - Deonte can get to anywhere on the floor he wants. Not many guys have that ability. Which is why I'm so excited to see Deonte play these next couple of years. Feel he will be best player at MU since Wade.
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For me it was the very first game he ever played. I stayed up for the midnight tip of MU vs Tennessee in the Great Alaska Shootout. I was so excited after watching him almost post a triple double, that I couldn't sleep all night.
I woke my wife up at 6 in the morning and said excitedly "you are not going to believe me, but somehow Michael Jordan was reincarnated and he now plays for Marquette and his name is Dwyane Wade" She said "yeah ok......let me go back to bed".
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I was at one of his first games still the BC and he was right of the top of the key then made some moves and was at the rim laying it in. And I remember saying to my friend next to me " very Jordan-like moves." Was a special player from the get-go.
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I thought he was a good college player, but it blew my mind when he got drafted so high. I had no clue he'd make that big of a splash in the league. I mean, he was just so skinny!
http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDeb7dzmwM
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The crazy thing about Wade was that he over-delivered on the chatter from the year he sat out and always got exponentially better. It is so rare someone does better than the hype -- then goes out and gets better the next year. So cool to watch that happen.
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Yup.
Lots of Rosiak's chatter about Wade made him the best player on the team but wasn't eligible to play.
When you read and heard his name mentioned more than some of the starters, you knew he was special.
Wasn't much of the same said for J. Wilson when he sat out his first year at MU?
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Wasn't much of the same said for J. Wilson when he sat out his first year at MU?
Jamil had an entire freshman season under his belt when he came to MU - and that season was decidedly underwhelming. He was a "workout warrior", but the idea that he was a phenom had already been dispelled before he got here.
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Was rosiak on the beat then, or was it still Lori Nickel?
Anyways, I was in school Wade's frosh year. The managers had been talking him up and said he was legit.
I knew he was going to be a good college player the first couple of games. I knew he was going to be REALLY good when I saw his ability to change speeds, go left, use the glass, and land a perfect bounce pass. Not many uber-athletic guards have that kind of refinement to their game as a soph. Very impressive player.
I thought he'd have a solid NBA career, but obviously I underestimated him. He was far quicker than I ever imagined, and his strength and body control is almost second to none. A lot of guys are quick and explosive (Vander), but are they strong enough to stay under control when they start moving at those explosive speeds.
If you want to try it yourself, SPRINT as fast as you can from 1/2 court (without dribbling) and see if you can make a lay-up. Not everybody has the strength to control their body at high velocity. Wade was one of the best ever at it.
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I saw him play a high school game against Hillcrest High in the south Chicago suburbs. It was Wade vs Odartey Blankson's team after they had both committed. Hillcrest had Blankson and 2 other D1 players, both bigs and one of them was very highly ranked (don't remember his name but he didn't do anything in college). Wade's team had no one other than him. Wade's team lost the game but Dwyane dominated.
Prior to that point I had never been so excited for the future of MU hoops. I even wrote a long message board post about it the next morning. I think that was back in the Mike Juno/Geo Cities board days.
Of course I had no idea he would end up being a top 5 all time NBA shooting guard, but I thought we had an All American on our hands for sure.
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I thought he was a good college player, but it blew my mind when he got drafted so high. I had no clue he'd make that big of a splash in the league. I mean, he was just so skinny!
http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDeb7dzmwM
I remember watching that game on TV. Early on, the Tulane student section was chanting "overrated" when Wade had the ball. That was all the motivation Wade needed to flip the switch and turn into one of those unstoppable action movie heroes. I believe this game was adapted to make the 2004 movie "Man on Fire" with Denzel Washington playing the role of Wade.
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His first game against Loyola at the BC. His movement, his athleticism, he was everywhere. Knew we had something special on our hands, and then he went off in Alaska and the rest is history.
As far as his pro career... the playoffs his rookie year.
Absolutely! He was the only reason they were in most of their games that playoffs. Hit that game winner against the Hornets, then was on a tear against the Pacers the next series. In game 6, he was in absolute killer mode in the 4th quarter (as a ROOKIE no less). They literally just had to give him the ball and get out of the way, he was going to win them that game (and I'm convinced ultimately the series as well). However, Eddie Jones was out to prove that it was still "his" team, and he took stupid shot after stupid shot as Wade was begging for the ball. I remember screaming at the TV every time Jones touched the ball that game. I've hated him ever since. Here's the box score from that game. Keep in mind this was game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs, and he was a rookie.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=240518014
Look at the lineup they trotted out. Such a hodgepodge, and Wade almost took them to the conference finals year 1. That's insane, and one of his most overlooked accomplishments. Here's his game log from that playoffs (and season).
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/1987/year/2004/dwyane-wade
Remember at this point he was VASTLY overshadowed in the media hype machine by LeBron and Carmelo. He had to earn it with his play, and earn it he did. Still annoys me that 'melo gets mentioned in the same breath as Wade as a "superstar." And LeBron had to learn the killer instinct from Wade. If he hadn't gotten injured in the '05 playoffs or the '07 season, I suspect he'd have another championship or two. It will take an INCREDIBLE player at MU to match Wade.
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I was on a project team with David Diggs in the spring of 2001 and asked him how things were looking for next year. He said Wade was a "pro prospect" and I didn't really believe him. Obviously, he was right.
Sitting in the student section in the fall of 2001, about 10 rows up in the corner (about eye level with the basket) Travis Diener was on a fast break and threw a lob pass that looked like it was heading right for me. I thought "who the hell is he throwing it to??" Then out of my peripheral vision D-Wade comes FLYING in, catches it with two hands and throws it down. I was stunned...I hadn't seen athleticism like that up close.
Even still, when he was drafted I thought he would be a solid pro, not a hall of famer. He could get anywhere on the court effortlessly in college, but I figured he wouldn't be able to do that in the NBA. It doesn't LOOK like he is moving that fast. When I saw him his rookie year doing all of the same things he did in college, I was ecstatic. I knew it was going to be a blast to watch him the NBA for the next 10+ years.
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I saw him play a high school game against Hillcrest High in the south Chicago suburbs. It was Wade vs Odartey Blankson's team after they had both committed. Hillcrest had Blankson and 2 other D1 players, both bigs and one of them was very highly ranked (don't remember his name but he didn't do anything in college). Wade's team had no one other than him. Wade's team lost the game but Dwyane dominated.
The real shame is had ODB stayed at MU, we probably win the title in 2003.
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Things that I have never seen before stick in my mind. You often see players let the ball roll up the court to save time. A St. Louis player was doing this and Wade quickly rushed in to steal the ball and scored. I have never seen that before and I have not seen it since.
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The real shame is had ODB stayed at MU, we probably win the title in 2003.
We lost to Kansas by 33 points...
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Wait a minute, all these people are saying that during his red shirt year NBA scouts were in the Old Gym watching Wade play. Chicos paints a different picture. Wade wasn't highly recruited, wasn't ranked highly in the recruit rankings, and frankly wouldn't be nearly the player he was without Tom Crean's incredible skill at developing his players. Wade owes it all to Coach Crean. Just ask Wade himself, Chicos will tell you. Wade could not have possibly been as good as you all are saying he was while he was redshirting, he hadn't even had time for Crean to develop him, and he wasn't that good coming into Marquette.
Or is Tom Crean that good that you can give him 2 months with a guy and he goes from 10th best player in IL to 10th best player in college basketball?
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That first tournament against I think Tennessee and Indiana finalized it for me. Filled the stat sheet and his athleticism was a step above high DI athletes.
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Wait a minute, all these people are saying that during his red shirt year NBA scouts were in the Old Gym watching Wade play. Chicos paints a different picture. Wade wasn't highly recruited, wasn't ranked highly in the recruit rankings, and frankly wouldn't be nearly the player he was without Tom Crean's incredible skill at developing his players. Wade owes it all to Coach Crean. Just ask Wade himself, Chicos will tell you. Wade could not have possibly been as good as you all are saying he was while he was redshirting, he hadn't even had time for Crean to develop him, and he wasn't that good coming into Marquette.
Or is Tom Crean that good that you can give him 2 months with a guy and he goes from 10th best player in IL to 10th best player in college basketball?
You're not allowed to complain about threads going off topic, about certain posters, etc. if you're going to take a great thread and poke the bear like this.
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The real shame is had ODB stayed at MU, we probably win the title in 2003.
Not so sure on this, to be honest. Townsend and Novak gave that team some sorely needed outside shooting that really balanced out the offense. If ODB had stayed, their minutes would have been limited.
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We lost to Kansas by 33 points...
Macro, not micro. I didn't say "throw Blankson on the roster for the one game where Kansas smoked us and we would have won." I think he would have been a large enough additional piece to improve the team enough over the season to win the title.
They would have been measurably better with him on the team for a full season. In 01-02, he was the 3rd leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder. He probably would have improved his numbers incrementally as well. If they beat #2 UL at home or manage not to blow those stupid games in Dayton or ECU that probably moves them up a seed line.
Maybe they wind up out of UK and KU's bracket and they wind up playing Texas in the National Semifinal and UK for the title. I ultimately think a bad day doomed the guys against Kansas. It's a single elimination tournament, that will happen. But I do believe that he would have been a big enough piece over a full season to have put them over the top.
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Macro, not micro. I didn't say "throw Blankson on the roster for the one game where Kansas smoked us and we would have won." I think he would have been a large enough additional piece to improve the team enough over the season to win the title.
They would have been measurably better with him on the team for a full season. In 01-02, he was the 3rd leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder. He probably would have improved his numbers incrementally as well. If they beat #2 UL at home or manage not to blow those stupid games in Dayton or ECU that probably moves them up a seed line.
Maybe they wind up out of UK and KU's bracket and they wind up playing Texas in the National Semifinal and UK for the title. I ultimately think a bad day doomed the guys against Kansas. It's a single elimination tournament, that will happen. But I do believe that he would have been a big enough piece over a full season to have put them over the top.
When you get to the Final Four seed lines make no difference. I just don't agree with you. Kansas would've beaten us 100% of the time just based on game planning. Even off of made baskets Kansas had the ball across half court before the shot clock hit "34" a majority of the time. Marquette had no chance, and a year with ODB would not have changed that one bit.
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Not so sure on this, to be honest. Townsend and Novak gave that team some sorely needed outside shooting that really balanced out the offense. If ODB had stayed, their minutes would have been limited.
Novak was a bench player that season anyways. Townsend's minutes would have been limited, true. But the one year they were on the team together, Blankson started ahead of Townsend.
Honestly, I don't think the added depth at the forward position would have hurt. A lineup with Merritt, Jackson, Blankson, Diener and Wade would have been quite formidable on both ends of the court.
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More wade highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ntRWbqOhM
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Wait a minute, all these people are saying that during his red shirt year NBA scouts were in the Old Gym watching Wade play. Chicos paints a different picture. Wade wasn't highly recruited, wasn't ranked highly in the recruit rankings, and frankly wouldn't be nearly the player he was without Tom Crean's incredible skill at developing his players. Wade owes it all to Coach Crean. Just ask Wade himself, Chicos will tell you. Wade could not have possibly been as good as you all are saying he was while he was redshirting, he hadn't even had time for Crean to develop him, and he wasn't that good coming into Marquette.
Or is Tom Crean that good that you can give him 2 months with a guy and he goes from 10th best player in IL to 10th best player in college basketball?
Why?
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Knew Wade was different than past Warriors when he went all pussification by sportin' IU panties.
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Not so sure on this, to be honest. Townsend and Novak gave that team some sorely needed outside shooting that really balanced out the offense. If ODB had stayed, their minutes would have been limited.
Townsend couldn't shoot!
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I knew Wade was a stud when my kids and I went to see his Richards team play Eddy Curry's Thornwood team in a sectional playoff game.
Wade went for 18 points, 14 rebounds and 6 steals, had a couple amazing moves and one monster dunk.
That Richards won even after Wade fouled out with 2 1/2 minutes left in OT tells you all you need to know about Curry. He had a great game statistically but he wasn't a difference-maker.
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Was not a believer until I saw him play in Alaska but Bob the barber at East Hall just raved about him pre season to anyone who would listen. The man never did that before in all the years I knew him.
I watched that first game in Alaska and I was a believer
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When did you know he'd be a special college player?
When did you know he'd be a special NBA player?
Well like the others I heard some of the chatter that he was the best player on the team during his non-playing year. Then the first few games that he played at home it was clear he was very talented. But in my admittedly imperfect memory, the thing that stands out is the Indiana game at the Great Alaskan Shootout. I was was listening on the radio to the game back at my parent's house, and around halftime we were just playing pathetically. I had to turn off the game to eat dinner or something and when I checked the online box score later I saw we had taken the lead! Later on reading the recaps and box score the story was that he had basically taken the team on his shoulders and willed them to victory. I think at that point I thought that he was going to be a special college player, taking leadership on a team so early in his career against a ranked opponent, rather than just being a very good player on a pretty good team.
Even after his incredible college career, there was great debate among my friends (some of whom were UW alums) about his pro prospects. I think the conventional wisdom was that he would have to be converted to a point guard because he was short for an NBA 2 and couldn't really shoot like an NBA 2, and yet he had never played the point in college. The range of opinion was that he would be a star to that he would get fewer NBA minutes than Tony Bennett (he was our reference point because he went to our high school). Anyways, I think it was within a week or two of his rookie season that every one of us knew that he was going to be a star and position wasn't important because he made things happen wherever he was on the court. And I'll agree with the others that his performance in the playoffs his first year was revealing. It was similar to the IU game his first college season where it seemed to show he was not just a star but a guy who could carry a team during big moments.
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More wade highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ntRWbqOhM
Wow. Thought I remembered just how badly Kansas beat us but in the final 15 minutes of the first half and the first 5 minutes of the second we were outscored 56-17! Score went from 17-15 to 73-32. If Ol' Roy doesn't call off the dogs they easily beat us by 50.
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Honestly, I knew he was athletic and he had NBA size at the 2. I thought his jumper wasn't strong enough to be elite. He definitely proved me wrong and in his prime, he had an amazing jumper to compliment his slashing ability. I honestly didn't think he would be as good as he is.
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Townsend couldn't shoot!
He shot 39% from three that year, and seemed to hit a couple shots early in games to get them going.
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Novak was a bench player that season anyways. Townsend's minutes would have been limited, true. But the one year they were on the team together, Blankson started ahead of Townsend.
Honestly, I don't think the added depth at the forward position would have hurt. A lineup with Merritt, Jackson, Blankson, Diener and Wade would have been quite formidable on both ends of the court.
Novak hit the two threes to beat Missouri in overtime. The little guard from Texas also hit some timely threes, which I think was against Pittsburg. We were lucky to beat Holy Cross and Missouri. Replay the tournament and there is a good chance we do not get to the final four. The tournament can be a crap shoot. Uconn should of lost their fist game this year, but came back to beat St. Joe's in overtime.
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Great Alaska Shootout.
ODB never should have left. The minutes would have worked themselves out.
Novak would have still had his special impact.
Townsend was awesome.
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I heard about him killing it in practice. His first year playing I watched him at the Bradley. It was an early game against some cupcakes. He had it at the top of the key. Easy dribbling and did a cross over, exploded down the middle of the lane, jumped, cupped it with his right hand and then dropped the hammer. It was the change of pace that was super quick and the finish in traffic with authority.
Up to that point I had suffered with the Mike Deane, jarod lovette, dick Shaw, Brian Wardle, Brian barone, unathletic plays. This play was another level.
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i was involved in coaching at the time, and saw him practice a few times while he was sitting...there was no doubt. that said, i didn't think he'd ever do what he did in the playoffs during his first championship...or what he did over his career. will be interesting to see if he can surprise again this year, but i'm afraid there isn't enough left in the tank. hope i'm wrong.
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I remember running around New York City with my new and indulgent wife to get a sports bar to consider putting the MU game on satellite over the objection of the other patrons. There was no way to watch MU games at home back then and I was a Wade junkie.
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I think I knew how good he was going to be for us in Alaska when we played Indiana, and if I'm not mistaken he put in the go ahead bucket in the last minute. I remember waking up my parents by screaming out loud when he hit the shot (I was only 12). It was then or his reverse alley oop from Cordell Henry at Depaul. The game was quite lopsided in our favor, because those 2 loved playing chicago teams. I just remember that dunk being one of the best plays I'd seen and was super nervous when Wade cut his hand on the rim that it was something more serious.
He proved how special he was going to be that last 1/2 of his rookie year. He had a Wade like stretch that jettisoned them into the playoffs, and when he finally had the spotlight on him he stepped up like he always did/does. I think It's his team again this year and could see him putting up 21-23 ppg again.
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Like many, I realized he was going to be very good when I watched his performance in Alaska. I realized he would be truly special when I watched him in person against UW in Madison.
Wade got in early foul trouble and was largely ineffective in the first half. If I remember correctly, he only scored two or four points in the half. The Badger fans I was with, and many in the Kohl Center, spent halftime talking about how DWade didn't seem to be anything special. The second half proved everyone in the building wrong.
There was a stretch in that second half where Wade was absolutely unstoppable. The Kohl Center went dead silent as the Bucky faithful collectively realized that he was by far the best player on the court that night and that he obviously had the potential to be one of the best players to ever set foot on that court. MU lost the game and I can't remember how many points Wade finished with (24 or 25?) but everyone left the arena knowing they just watched a special player. I have never been so happy after an MU loss, because I knew that there were many great moments to come.
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Wait a minute, all these people are saying that during his red shirt year NBA scouts were in the Old Gym watching Wade play. Chicos paints a different picture. Wade wasn't highly recruited, wasn't ranked highly in the recruit rankings, and frankly wouldn't be nearly the player he was without Tom Crean's incredible skill at developing his players. Wade owes it all to Coach Crean. Just ask Wade himself, Chicos will tell you. Wade could not have possibly been as good as you all are saying he was while he was redshirting, he hadn't even had time for Crean to develop him, and he wasn't that good coming into Marquette.
Or is Tom Crean that good that you can give him 2 months with a guy and he goes from 10th best player in IL to 10th best player in college basketball?
Wadesworld, you're distorting terribly. The facts are, he wasn't highly recruited...one can claim like Robbie the RiverRat that it was because the Big Ten and other power conferences didn't recruit Prop 48's....of course, Robbie the RiverRat was dead wrong to say that as I illustrated a number of examples of Big Ten teams with Prop 48 players. The facts ALSO are that he wasn't highly ranked by recruiting rankings. Those are both facts.
Nowhere did I say that Wade got to his perch in life solely because of Crean. That being said, Crean did recruit him, Crean did land him, and Crean was his coach that pushed him to succeed.
Your hyperbole aside, I just listen to what Dwyane Wade says about his coach the role he played in his life. I would encourage you to do the same thing.
Ultimately, I'm glad that Dwyane Wade played for Marquette University and I'm glad our coach at the time landed him so he could do that.
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As stated, I'm glad he chose to come to MU. Someone got him here, those of you who hate that person would have missed a tremendous talent that brought a lot of joy to many people then and still does today.
This will hurt some of you....
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/08/17/tweet-of-the-night-dwyane-wade-and-tom-creans-unbreakable-bond/
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I watched Wade at the first open team practice in the old gym. I wasn't aware he was ineligible until later when I got home and spoke to some friends on the phone. I was crushed as he was clearly the best player on the court. He was unstoppable in the scrimmage. Thank God that ODB convinced Crean to offer him. Thank God Crean listened. I'm glad that they bonded and that Crean made a great living from a chance.
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..of course, Robbie the RiverRat was dead wrong to say that as I illustrated a number of examples of Big Ten teams with Prop 48 players.
Please give these examples again of Big Ten teams with prop 48 or non qualifying players. Maybe rules have changed, but I know for a FACT that Dwyane Wade was not eligible to be a scholarship athlete at any of the "big 6" conference schools out of high school.
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All I know is that every game no matter opponent was worth the price of admission when the great one was here...always highlight material every single game.
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Please give these examples again of Big Ten teams with prop 48 or non qualifying players. Maybe rules have changed, but I know for a FACT that Dwyane Wade was not eligible to be a scholarship athlete at any of the "big 6" conference schools out of high school.
You sure about that?
;)
Or maybe you define big 6 differently than I do. I'm going to throw you a little bone here, you do realize that Wade was a partial qualifier, not a non-qualifer...correct? You may have had them mixed up.
I'll let you respond to my post, maybe you want to clarify it a bit. For giggles, say you were right (and I do mean giggles for that reason), your implication would be that other C-USA schools could take Wade like Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis or even the next rung down with Charlotte, TCU, Houston, USF, etc all could have recruited him, but didn't...per Wade himself. Instead his three offers, per Wade, were DePaul, MU and Illinois State.
Get back to me on the FACTS that you know.....a few bread crumbs....you may want to review conference policies from 1985 (the year Prop 48 came out) as well as it's successors (prop 42) through 2004 for each conference and let us know what the policies are for partial qualifiers via conference rules:
Big Ten
Big 8 / 12
Pac 10
SEC
ACC
Big East
As Sesame Street would say, this segment is brought to you by the number 4. That is your hint, the number 4.
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Lenny, another hint so you don't have to do too much work. You may want to check policy on partial qualifier limits for a certain large conference in the Great Lakes region. :P
Another hint...you may want to catch up on why Nebraska was so thrilled to go to a large conference in the Great Lakes region that has no limits on partial qualifiers or non qualifiers, but the Big 12 did (the Big 8 did not, but when Texas joined they forced a conference policy change which greatly reduced the number to 4...Nebraska fans have partially blamed that policy change for their decline in football when they could take as many PQ and NQ's as they wished, which now they can again).
Let me know if you want any more hints....I actually have all the conference policies on one chart from the late 1990's, 2004, 2006. They are all on the internet with a simple search. :o
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OK, I'm an outlier but I didn't really realize how good he was until 2003, when we made the Final Four.
My argument is the Michael Jordan/Bulls argument. Jordan was always great, but his greatness came not from scoring 70 points against the Celtics, but from pushing and lifting the rest of his team up. Wade reached that point in the 2003 NCAA tournament. His greatest moment -- when I realized how great he was -- was at the Kentucky game when he performed a miracle.
The Tennessee game in the Shootout -- as great as everyone thinks it is -- was not one where he made the team great. Nor did he make our team when we lost to Tulsa in St. Louis in 2002. We had talent in 2003 and Wade was the catalyst that got us someplace really special.
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Lenny....I will be cordial and nice in my response.
I believe your statement "but I know for a FACT that Dwyane Wade was not eligible to be a scholarship athlete at any of the "big 6" conference schools out of high school" is not accurate and have provided the documentation below.
Assuming the "big 6" are the Big 12, Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac 12 and Big East.
In those conferences from 1996 to 2004, these were the following policies by conference on partial qualifiers. Since Wade was a partial qualifier, I'll leave out the Non Qualifier policies, but I do have those as well.
Note that many of the Big 6 do have policies around partial qualifiers, but none of them exclude the university from taking PQ's. Some do limit the number to only 2 per year for a men's sport, but nevertheless they can be taken. The Big Ten and Big East have no such restrictions at all in place and can take as many players as they wish.
ACC Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 8/1/96:
Entering freshmen
– (First FT enrollment is ACC institution)
Maximum limit of 4 partial qualifiers per year per institution as determined by the institution may practice and receive aid (no more than 2 in men’s sports, and no more than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any sport). PQ must receive athletic aid.
4-yr transfer
must transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA and attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student to be eligible for aid, comp, practice. Any waivers require 6 affirmative votes (excluding involved institution).
Big East Partial Qualifier Policy:
No policy limitations on Partial Qualifiers. No limitations of any kind.
Big Ten Partial Qualifier Policy:
No policy limitations on Partial Qualifiers. No limitations of any kind.
Big 12 Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 6/96:
Entering freshmen
- No more than 4 partial qualifiers per year as determined by the institution may practice and receive aid (no more than 2 in men's sports, and no more
than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any sport). PQ status must be determined by 8/1 each year.
4-yr transfer
must transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA , attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student, and complete 1 yr in residence at Big 12 school for aid, practice, comp. NCAA 4-yr transfer waivers are not applicable.
2-yr transfer:
AA w/48S /2.00 & 3S at JC. 4(non-conf)-2-4 transfer : AA w/48S & 2.00
Pac 10 Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 8/1/97:
Entering freshmen fall 97 and thereafter:
No more than 4 partial qualifiers per year as determined by institution may practice and receive aid or compete upon fulfillment of residence requirement. No more than 2 in men’s sports and no more than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any one sport. Counts in academic year of original enrollment or when first reports for practice. All other PQs permanently ineligible for aid, practice, comp. Non-recruited, no athletic aid, no athletic admission, no practice
until 2nd year/no aid until 3rd year.
4-yr transfer (non conference) must meet all NCAA transfer requirements; transfer 48S/72Q degree credits with 2.00;
and attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student to be eligible for practice, comp, aid. Exceptions available for non-recruited transfers and some
foreign students. No waivers.
SEC Partial Qualifier Policy:
FT Enrollment as Freshman or 4-4 Transfer
– Maximum limit of 4 SA’s classified as PQ or NQ in men’s sports (limit 2 in FB and not more than 1 annually in any other sport). Maximum limit of 4 SA’s classified as PQ or NQ in women’s sports (limit 1 per sport annually). PQ must receive athletic aid. Limits do not apply to LD SA who is otherwise eligible for enrollment.
4-yr transfer
: Transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA, attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student; and have at least 2 seasons of competition remaining. 2-year and 4-2-4: Must have AA and 48S/72Q with 2.00 & attend 3S at JC; earn 6 credits of transferable English with 2.00; earn 6 credits of transferable Math with 2.00.
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Townsend couldn't shoot!
When I think of 2003 especially, I get irritated with Townsend.
I thank him for his contributions and wish him the best but he was OUT of his league for most games.
He had length to appear he could defend but his feet were slow.
He couldn't shoot.
He was never a threat.
He was the weak link in our drive to the Title that year.
My memories of him are always getting beat or stumbling to the floor trying to keep up.
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imagine if ODB stayed and played in Townsend's place.
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What is the God's honest truth about Wade's recruitment pre Crean? Hasn't it been said that Deane's staff was on him and Crean kind of picked up the pace on getting him here? I've never been clear on that.
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What is the God's honest truth about Wade's recruitment pre Crean? Hasn't it been said that Deane's staff was on him and Crean kind of picked up the pace on getting him here? I've never been clear on that.
I think the answer is in what Wade has said directly about his recruitment. All kinds of schools "recruit" kids just by cranking out mass letters of interest in their recruiting. At the end of the day, it depends on what the recipient feels is pursuing him.
Akin to a guy saying he is interested in some woman and making overtures to her, yet from her POV she thinks he is just a friend and doesn't recognize his intentions at all.
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I think the answer is in what Wade has said directly about his recruitment. All kinds of schools "recruit" kids just by cranking out mass letters of interest in their recruiting. At the end of the day, it depends on what the recipient feels is pursuing him.
Akin to a guy saying he is interested in some woman and making overtures to her, yet from her POV she thinks he is just a friend and doesn't recognize his intentions at all.
So, would the statement "I've been thinking about you a lot lately... a whole lot" be construed as too vague or does it get the message across properly?
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So, would the statement "I've been thinking about you a lot lately... a whole lot" be construed as too vague or does it get the message across properly?
Let's try to keep the discussion on Dwyane Wade and recruiting, and not Chris Hansen and To Catch a Predator. Oh wait...
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Lenny....I will be cordial and nice in my response.
I believe your statement "but I know for a FACT that Dwyane Wade was not eligible to be a scholarship athlete at any of the "big 6" conference schools out of high school" is not accurate and have provided the documentation below.
Assuming the "big 6" are the Big 12, Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac 12 and Big East.
In those conferences from 1996 to 2004, these were the following policies by conference on partial qualifiers. Since Wade was a partial qualifier, I'll leave out the Non Qualifier policies, but I do have those as well.
Note that many of the Big 6 do have policies around partial qualifiers, but none of them exclude the university from taking PQ's. Some do limit the number to only 2 per year for a men's sport, but nevertheless they can be taken. The Big Ten and Big East have no such restrictions at all in place and can take as many players as they wish.
ACC Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 8/1/96:
Entering freshmen
– (First FT enrollment is ACC institution)
Maximum limit of 4 partial qualifiers per year per institution as determined by the institution may practice and receive aid (no more than 2 in men’s sports, and no more than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any sport). PQ must receive athletic aid.
4-yr transfer
must transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA and attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student to be eligible for aid, comp, practice. Any waivers require 6 affirmative votes (excluding involved institution).
Big East Partial Qualifier Policy:
No policy limitations on Partial Qualifiers. No limitations of any kind.
Big Ten Partial Qualifier Policy:
No policy limitations on Partial Qualifiers. No limitations of any kind.
Big 12 Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 6/96:
Entering freshmen
- No more than 4 partial qualifiers per year as determined by the institution may practice and receive aid (no more than 2 in men's sports, and no more
than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any sport). PQ status must be determined by 8/1 each year.
4-yr transfer
must transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA , attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student, and complete 1 yr in residence at Big 12 school for aid, practice, comp. NCAA 4-yr transfer waivers are not applicable.
2-yr transfer:
AA w/48S /2.00 & 3S at JC. 4(non-conf)-2-4 transfer : AA w/48S & 2.00
Pac 10 Partial Qualifier Policy:
Effective 8/1/97:
Entering freshmen fall 97 and thereafter:
No more than 4 partial qualifiers per year as determined by institution may practice and receive aid or compete upon fulfillment of residence requirement. No more than 2 in men’s sports and no more than 2 in women’s sports, with no more than one in any one sport. Counts in academic year of original enrollment or when first reports for practice. All other PQs permanently ineligible for aid, practice, comp. Non-recruited, no athletic aid, no athletic admission, no practice
until 2nd year/no aid until 3rd year.
4-yr transfer (non conference) must meet all NCAA transfer requirements; transfer 48S/72Q degree credits with 2.00;
and attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student to be eligible for practice, comp, aid. Exceptions available for non-recruited transfers and some
foreign students. No waivers.
SEC Partial Qualifier Policy:
FT Enrollment as Freshman or 4-4 Transfer
– Maximum limit of 4 SA’s classified as PQ or NQ in men’s sports (limit 2 in FB and not more than 1 annually in any other sport). Maximum limit of 4 SA’s classified as PQ or NQ in women’s sports (limit 1 per sport annually). PQ must receive athletic aid. Limits do not apply to LD SA who is otherwise eligible for enrollment.
4-yr transfer
: Transfer at least 48S/72Q units with 2.00 GPA, attended 4-yr inst. 3S/4Q as full-time student; and have at least 2 seasons of competition remaining. 2-year and 4-2-4: Must have AA and 48S/72Q with 2.00 & attend 3S at JC; earn 6 credits of transferable English with 2.00; earn 6 credits of transferable Math with 2.00.
Thank you for being cordial. Wrong and cordial is much preferred to the wrong and snarky of your previous two posts on the subject. Here is the problem with your analysis:
When Marquette signed Dwyane Wade to a letter of intent in November of 1999 (his senior year in high school) he was NOT a partial qualifier, he was a non qualifier. He had not (a) graduated from high school with his core courses and GPA in order or (b) achieved an acceptable score on his SATs or ACTs. Big 6 schools were not signing non qualifiers to letters of intent in 1999. He could have taken a chance that a big 6 school would have wanted him as a partial qualifier after graduation, but when he hadn't passed the ACT by the summer before his senior year he was off of their radar until at least the spring. Under those circumstances you take what you can get. Our luck.
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I think the answer is in what Wade has said directly about his recruitment. All kinds of schools "recruit" kids just by cranking out mass letters of interest in their recruiting. At the end of the day, it depends on what the recipient feels is pursuing him.
Akin to a guy saying he is interested in some woman and making overtures to her, yet from her POV she thinks he is just a friend and doesn't recognize his intentions at all.
I have never heard Wade talk about Marquette's pursuit, pre Crean. Wasn't one of Deane's assistants the actual guy who targeted him?
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I have never heard Wade talk about Marquette's pursuit, pre Crean. Wasn't one of Deane's assistants the actual guy who targeted him?
Deane was definitely on Wade. Don't know about any of his assistants. Tim Buckley, an MU assistant under Crean in 1999-2000 was instrumental.
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Deane's Wiki page says he recruited Wade before he left.
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Thank you for being cordial. Wrong and cordial is much preferred to the wrong and snarky of your previous two posts on the subject. Here is the problem with your analysis:
When Marquette signed Dwyane Wade to a letter of intent in November of 1999 (his senior year in high school) he was NOT a partial qualifier, he was a non qualifier. He had not (a) graduated from high school with his core courses and GPA in order or (b) achieved an acceptable score on his SATs or ACTs. Big 6 schools were not signing non qualifiers to letters of intent in 1999. He could have taken a chance that a big 6 school would have wanted him as a partial qualifier after graduation, but when he hadn't passed the ACT by the summer before his senior year he was off of their radar until at least the spring. Under those circumstances you take what you can get. Our luck.
Happy to be non-snarky, also happy to show you are wrong again.
If you would have said 4 of the big 6, you would have been correct. However, you didn't and right in his own backyard is one of the conferences that allowed NQ's without discrimination...the other was the Big East. Here are the policies for NON QUALIFIERS by Big 6 schools.....needless to say, your comment that "big 6 schools were not signing non qualifiers to letters of intent in 1999" is wrong. Sorry. Some were not, but not all Big 6 which was your claim. Incidentally, though not a Big 6 conference, the Mountain West and the WCC also did not allow NQ's....maybe those two were part of your Big 6? ;)
The ACC, effective 8/1/96 and good through 7/2004 accepted no NQ's.
The Big 12, you could accept them, but no aid or practice time with teams.
Pac Ten, Effective 8/1/97: Entering freshmen fall 97 and thereafter: NQ is permanently ineligible for comp, practice, or athletic aid. NQ who would be Q based only on core course deficiency may seek waiver through FARC after all NCAA waiver/ appeals exhausted. Non-recruited, no athletic aid, no athletic admission, no practice until 2nd year/no aid until 3rd year.
SEC: Entering freshmen: NQ receives No aid, comp, practice at any time unless minimum 2.25 core GPA with 820 SAT/68 SUMACT. May not receive aid, but must count in team financial aid limits. (Equiv. Sports count 0.5 GIA in first year and actual GIA in subsequent years).
BUT, Big East, Big Ten had no such policy on NQ's.
Just to note, outside of the Big 6, the NQ policy that would have accepted Wade without conditions included A-10, Big West, CUSA, Horizon, Missouri Valley as well as many smaller conferences.
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I have never heard Wade talk about Marquette's pursuit, pre Crean. Wasn't one of Deane's assistants the actual guy who targeted him?
Jeter a bit, but again the reality is to just listen to Wade. He got letters from a number of schools which is standard for any kids in the top 250. I mentioned here last year that I work with a woman who's son was on Gabe York's AAU team. Her son was getting letters by the truckload from every school under the planet who was "recruiting him". It's all in how people want to identify recruiting. According to Wade, it was three schools and he only mentions TC by name.
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Jeter a bit, but again the reality is to just listen to Wade. He got letters from a number of schools which is standard for any kids in the top 250. I mentioned here last year that I work with a woman who's son was on Gabe York's AAU team. Her son was getting letters by the truckload from every school under the planet who was "recruiting him". It's all in how people want to identify recruiting. According to Wade, it was three schools and he only mentions TC by name.
While I have no knowledge of the Wade situation, I do know that different people/families characterize the whole recruiting process very differently. I know some people who have received emails, letters, etc. from dozens of DI athletic departments and don't believe that their kids are actually being "recruited" yet. Noticed? Yes...and that's a precursor to being recruited...but not recruited yet. On the other hand, I know some people who, if their kid gets one email or letter requesting a questionnaire, they'll tell everyone who will listen that their kid is being recruited.
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I saw most of it live as a few of my years crossed over with his. I personally never saw his NBA career coming. I didn't think he'd translate into nearly that good of a player.
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While I have no knowledge of the Wade situation, I do know that different people/families characterize the whole recruiting process very differently. I know some people who have received emails, letters, etc. from dozens of DI athletic departments and don't believe that their kids are actually being "recruited" yet. Noticed? Yes...and that's a precursor to being recruited...but not recruited yet. On the other hand, I know some people who, if their kid gets one email or letter requesting a questionnaire, they'll tell everyone who will listen that their kid is being recruited.
Agree entirely
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Jeter a bit, but again the reality is to just listen to Wade. He got letters from a number of schools which is standard for any kids in the top 250. I mentioned here last year that I work with a woman who's son was on Gabe York's AAU team. Her son was getting letters by the truckload from every school under the planet who was "recruiting him". It's all in how people want to identify recruiting. According to Wade, it was three schools and he only mentions TC by name.
I love Tom Crean. He makes me stiff. Still some 7 years after his departure from MU. And I'll be damned if he doesn't get his due. I wonder where things will be in 2021 on this board - 14 years removed from Crean, and 7 from Buzz - because we know you will still be slobbering all over Buzz 7 years after his departure from MU. Right.
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I love Tom Crean. He makes me stiff. Still some 7 years after his departure from MU. And I'll be damned if he doesn't get his due. I wonder where things will be in 2021 on this board - 14 years removed from Crean, and 7 from Buzz - because we know you will still be slobbering all over Buzz 7 years after his departure from MU. Right.
I'm glad someone recruited him to my alma mater and took a chance in him. Glad that other schools in the area, including Big Ten schools chose not to take the chance. It was fun watching him play for MU, become a solid spokesperson for the university during and after his MU days...great to see him help a little Midwest school that had gone 30 years without doing much in hoops, navigate the crap shoot that is the NCAAs and get Milwaukee, the state, and alumni excited. Great memories. Hope we can get there again.
All the best....say hi to Ners for me.
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I'm glad someone recruited him to my alma mater and took a chance in him. Glad that other schools in the area, including Big Ten schools chose not to take the chance. It was fun watching him play for MU, become a solid spokesperson for the university during and after his MU days...great to see him help a little Midwest school that had gone 30 years without doing much in hoops, navigate the crap shoot that is the NCAAs and get Milwaukee, the state, and alumni excited. Great memories. Hope we can get there again.
All the best....say hi to Ners for me.
Hi Chicos - Ners here. Haven't gone anywhere. I just wanted to reiterate that Tom Crean makes me stiff. Now 14 years since D-Wade was recruited to MU, I, like you want to ensure Tom Crean gets his due. Tom had to beat out Bradley and DePaul for Wade's services. Apparently, only Marquette, Bradley and DePaul at that time had anyone on their staff that had a lick of talent evaluation skills, because all the teams in the Big 10 and Big East didn't feel he was worthy of a scholarship.
Nonetheless, all that aside, yes I'm very glad Crean landed D-Wade. Turned out to be a huge "get." But let's not act as if it was some amazing recruiting "win," as we should have beaten DePaul and Bradley for his services. Now if Wojo lands Ellenson over Kentucky and MSU - that's a recruiting win that deserves to be slobbered over some 14 years after the fact.
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Hi Chicos - Ners here. Haven't gone anywhere. I just wanted to reiterate that Tom Crean makes me stiff. Now 14 years since D-Wade was recruited to MU, I, like you want to ensure Tom Crean gets his due. Tom had to beat out Bradley and DePaul for Wade's services. Apparently, only Marquette, Bradley and DePaul at that time had anyone on their staff that had a lick of talent evaluation skills, because all the teams in the Big 10 and Big East didn't feel he was worthy of a scholarship.
Nonetheless, all that aside, yes I'm very glad Crean landed D-Wade. Turned out to be a huge "get." But let's not act as if it was some amazing recruiting "win," as we should have beaten DePaul and Bradley for his services. Now if Wojo lands Ellenson over Kentucky and MSU - that's a recruiting win that deserves to be slobbered over some 14 years after the fact.
100% agree. Wojo landing Ellenson, combined with Ellenson getting drafted high while the team has success on the court, will open the floodgates. It will have proven that a.) we can go toe to toe with the biggest and the baddest to land the best, and b.) you can achieve your on-court aspirations while fulfilling your NBA dreams by coming to MU. Wojo also has the pedigree and things like USA basketball connections to keep people from saying it was a fluke. Landing Ellenson will be a MAJOR step towards legitimizing Wojo and the MU program in the eyes of elite recruits. They say the first one is the hardest, and Wojo is on the verge of doing it in his first recruiting class. That's insane.
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Hi Chicos - Ners here. Haven't gone anywhere. I just wanted to reiterate that Tom Crean makes me stiff. Now 14 years since D-Wade was recruited to MU, I, like you want to ensure Tom Crean gets his due. Tom had to beat out Bradley and DePaul for Wade's services. Apparently, only Marquette, Bradley and DePaul at that time had anyone on their staff that had a lick of talent evaluation skills, because all the teams in the Big 10 and Big East didn't feel he was worthy of a scholarship.
Nonetheless, all that aside, yes I'm very glad Crean landed D-Wade. Turned out to be a huge "get." But let's not act as if it was some amazing recruiting "win," as we should have beaten DePaul and Bradley for his services. Now if Wojo lands Ellenson over Kentucky and MSU - that's a recruiting win that deserves to be slobbered over some 14 years after the fact.
Actually, in the end Marquette beat out Bradley and Illinois State for Wade. DePaul liked Wade a lot, but only had one scholarship available and when 5* Imari Sawyer (who was also an academic qualifier) said yes they chose him. As for the Big 10 and the Big East, my recollection is that they weren't signing non qualifiers in November back then. Chico says otherwise, so maybe can provide a list of all the non qualifying basketball players who signed with Big 10 or Big East programs that year. My guess is they all signed with invisible ink.
The competition MU faces in going after Henry is infinitely stronger. Truth told the competition Marquette faced to get every single one of our present players was stronger than the competition Crean faced in getting Wade - because so few schools were able or willing to take the academic risk MU took on Dwyane.
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Actually, in the end Marquette beat out Bradley and Illinois State for Wade. DePaul liked Wade a lot, but only had one scholarship available and when 5* Imari Sawyer (who was also an academic qualifier) said yes they chose him. As for the Big 10 and the Big East, my recollection is that they weren't signing non qualifiers in November back then. Chico says otherwise, so maybe can provide a list of all the non qualifying basketball players who signed with Big 10 or Big East programs that year. My guess is they all signed with invisible ink.
The competition MU faces in going after Henry is infinitely stronger. Truth told the competition Marquette faced to get every single one of our present players was stronger than the competition Crean faced in getting Wade - because so few schools were able or willing to take the academic risk MU took on Dwyane.
Your recollection was "FACT" just a few days ago. ;) What I said is that no policy with the Big East or Big Ten prevented NQ's from being signed, or PQ's. On the PQ side, all 6 conferences accept PQ's, some conferences had limitations on quantities (not the Big Ten or Big East). On the NQ side, 4 of the 6 did not allow playing in the first year, but could play afterward. Big Ten and Big East had no such limiting policy. Examples of PQ's included folks like Glenn Robinson, as an example, Tony Rice at Notre Dame, etc. Those I provided previously. I didn't provide any NQ's, because I didn't look for them. Don't know if they exist or not, I'm telling you the policy did not prevent them from recruiting him which you said you knew for fact that he wasn't eligible to be recruited by the big 6. That is flat wrong. He was eligible to be recruited, whether someone did is another story. Also, if they expected that he would be a partial qualifier eventually, which everyone did (and proved correct), then that opened up even more options to all six Big 6 conference schools. They could recruit him and just wait to see if he obtained the needed scores, but that didn't happen.
Here was the policy in 2004 on NQ and PQ http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/pac10/compl/ccaca/surveys/PQNQ.pdf
I have the 1999 and 2006 policies at home which I'm happy to scan to PDF and present if you wish here. They are in my compliance binder.
As I mentioned the other day, perhaps Big Ten schools (despite no policy against) chose not to recruit him....you didn't answer my question the other day about Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston, etc, all in CUSA that could have landed Wade since he was such a slam dunk recruit....surely UC and UL's high standards for recruiting wouldn't have kept them back. ;) Or any number of other schools that are more highly regarded than Bradley (though Wade says DePaul) or Illinois State? Dayton, LaSalle, Rhode Island, St. Joe's, Duquense, etc.
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I have heard Wade say that he wanted to stay close to home which probably explains why Bradley, DePaul and ISU were on his list but other schools on the east coast were not…...
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Hi Chicos - Ners here. Haven't gone anywhere. I just wanted to reiterate that Tom Crean makes me stiff. Now 14 years since D-Wade was recruited to MU, I, like you want to ensure Tom Crean gets his due. Tom had to beat out Bradley and DePaul for Wade's services. Apparently, only Marquette, Bradley and DePaul at that time had anyone on their staff that had a lick of talent evaluation skills, because all the teams in the Big 10 and Big East didn't feel he was worthy of a scholarship.
Nonetheless, all that aside, yes I'm very glad Crean landed D-Wade. Turned out to be a huge "get." But let's not act as if it was some amazing recruiting "win," as we should have beaten DePaul and Bradley for his services. Now if Wojo lands Ellenson over Kentucky and MSU - that's a recruiting win that deserves to be slobbered over some 14 years after the fact.
I'm happy for you, truly I am. Stiff is good. I'm all for people being stiff and alive, not dead stiff.
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I'm down with stiff, too.
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I'm down with stiff, too.
This is a good thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/K4mH5fq.jpg)
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This is a good thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/K4mH5fq.jpg)
reminded me of this page: https://imgur.com/a/dpTKe
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100% agree. Wojo landing Ellenson, combined with Ellenson getting drafted high while the team has success on the court, will open the floodgates. It will have proven that a.) we can go toe to toe with the biggest and the baddest to land the best
While I would love to believe this, I'm not willing to pop the bubbly quite yet. There are dozens of examples of solid but not elite programs signing a top 5 player and not suddenly taking off. They usually have a good or even great year or two before returning to normal. Georgia Tech, USC, and Mississippi State come to mind. And while landing Henry would mean beating out Izzo and Cal, I don't know if it means we can go "toe to toe" with them. We will have a won a single recruiting battle for a kid whose brother, best friend, and father either currently play or used to play for Marquette. MSU and Kentucky will still win most of the battles.
However, it is an important first step. If Wojo can follow it up by signing an Amir Coffey or a Miles Bridges in 2016, then I'll start to be more hopeful.