MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TempoFree on August 21, 2014, 01:05:54 PM
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Projecting the top 10 Shooting Guards for the 2014-15 Season
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11374705/nba-projecting-top-10-shooting-guards-warp-2014-15
Marquette has 2 players in the top 10 and 3 in the top 15.
Here are the snips for D-Wade and JFB (Wes is 14th and didn't have a write up):
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
Projected 2014-15 WARP: 9.1 | Win%: 62 percent
Speaking of time of possession, Wade will be getting a lot more of it this season with James back in Cleveland. One of the more intriguing subplots of "The Return" is that now we'll see just how much game Wade and Chris Bosh have left. Last season, at age 32, Wade put up his lowest WARP and winning percentage since his rookie season. Also near career-lows were Wade's usage rate and assist rate. Now, as he returns to the role of Miami's offensive creator, can Wade stay somewhat efficient if he soars back to a usage rate above 30 percent and an assist rate more than 9 percent? If he can, can his body hold up to the challenge?
4. Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls
Projected 2014-15 WARP: 8.3 | Win%: 56 percent
Butler will probably never be a dynamic offensive player, but he does so many things well that he's become one of the best two-way performers at his position in the league. Last season, Butler extended his game out to the 3-point line more often, although his accuracy there didn't justify the volume of attempts. Still, it was a smart adjustment, one that could especially pay dividends this season if Derrick Rose can stay healthy and contract the defense. Butler stayed aggressive putting the ball on the floor, and is Chicago's best foul-drawing threat. He's also the best perimeter defender on one of the league's top defenses, with the versatility to check any of the perimeter positions. Entering his fourth season, our system sees a breakout campaign coming for Butler.
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Just hope they all stay healthy,especially dywane.
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Just hope they all stay healthy,especially dywane.
I don't want to see him hurt by any means, but I want Wade to retire so I can become a D-Wade fan again.
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There is absolutely no way that Wade will be the 2nd rated shooting guard this year. He is a shell of his former self and an increased role will only accelerate his decline.
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There is absolutely no way that Wade will be the 2nd rated shooting guard this year. He is a shell of his former self and an increased role will only accelerate his decline.
You've been wrong before...
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You've been wrong before...
So have you...
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There is absolutely no way that Wade will be the 2nd rated shooting guard this year. He is a shell of his former self and an increased role will only accelerate his decline.
I agree. Not a chance.
There will certainly be games where he plays like the 2nd best guard in the league - but the legs/knees aren't there anymore for him to be a factor in anywhere close to 80 games.
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I agree. Not a chance.
There will certainly be games where he plays like the 2nd best guard in the league - but the legs/knees aren't there anymore for him to be a factor in anywhere close to 80 games.
The question is, who's better? Paul George is out with injury, Kobe is coming back from an injury and is even older so who knows about that. James Harden is the only SG off the top of my head that I can say is better than Dwyane Wade without a doubt. There aren't many great SGs in the league right now. All the best guards are point guards and all the best wings are small forwards.
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Is Klay Thompson a SG? He's better
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Is Klay Thompson a SG? He's better
He is a SG, and he certainly has a better future as he is younger, but he was not better this past season, and with Wade being more of the focal point of the offense going into next year with LBJ gone, he may not be better next year either.
Last year:
Wade: 19.0 PPG, 4.7 APG, 4.5 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 54.5% FG, 28.1% 3PT FG, 73.3% FT
Thompson: 18.4 PPG, 2.2 APG, 3.1 RPG, 0.9 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 44.4% FG, 41.7% 3 PT FG, 79.5% FT
So Thompson was a better 3 point shooter and free throw shooter, but that was it. I know Wade had a "down" year by Wade's standards, but let's be honest, Wade was still very good last year. Sure, he look tired, old, and worn down at times in the Playoffs. But so did Manu Ginobli in the 2013 NBA Finals and he sure as heck looked alright to me last year despite being "old" (by NBA standards). Wade will be very good next year and the Heat won't be awful.
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Projecting the top 10 Shooting Guards for the 2014-15 Season
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11374705/nba-projecting-top-10-shooting-guards-warp-2014-15
Marquette has 2 players in the top 10 5 and 3 in the top 15.
Here are the snips for D-Wade and JFB (Wes is 14th and didn't have a write up):
2. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat
Projected 2014-15 WARP: 9.1 | Win%: 62 percent
Speaking of time of possession, Wade will be getting a lot more of it this season with James back in Cleveland. One of the more intriguing subplots of "The Return" is that now we'll see just how much game Wade and Chris Bosh have left. Last season, at age 32, Wade put up his lowest WARP and winning percentage since his rookie season. Also near career-lows were Wade's usage rate and assist rate. Now, as he returns to the role of Miami's offensive creator, can Wade stay somewhat efficient if he soars back to a usage rate above 30 percent and an assist rate more than 9 percent? If he can, can his body hold up to the challenge?
4. Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls
Projected 2014-15 WARP: 8.3 | Win%: 56 percent
Butler will probably never be a dynamic offensive player, but he does so many things well that he's become one of the best two-way performers at his position in the league. Last season, Butler extended his game out to the 3-point line more often, although his accuracy there didn't justify the volume of attempts. Still, it was a smart adjustment, one that could especially pay dividends this season if Derrick Rose can stay healthy and contract the defense. Butler stayed aggressive putting the ball on the floor, and is Chicago's best foul-drawing threat. He's also the best perimeter defender on one of the league's top defenses, with the versatility to check any of the perimeter positions. Entering his fourth season, our system sees a breakout campaign coming for Butler.
Lets not sell ourselves short.
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The question is, who's better? Paul George is out with injury, Kobe is coming back from an injury and is even older so who knows about that. James Harden is the only SG off the top of my head that I can say is better than Dwyane Wade without a doubt. There aren't many great SGs in the league right now. All the best guards are point guards and all the best wings are small forwards.
Curry maybe?
Short list for sure.
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Curry maybe?
Short list for sure.
Curry plays the point for the Warriors. If he played the 2 then yes, no doubt he is a better player.
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I love how people consider a 19.5 ppg, 4.7 apg, 4.5 rpg SG to be all washed up. He's not up to his old self but Wade is still pretty damn good. I'm having trouble thinking who would be better besides Harden. Maybe Ellis. Some youngsters (Waiters, Oliadipo, Evans, Thompson) will probably pass him up in the next year or two. But I don't think any of them will ever be as good as Wade was. I really don't think any of them will even be close.
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I love how people consider a 19.5 ppg, 4.7 apg, 4.5 rpg SG to be all washed up. He's not up to his old self but Wade is still pretty damn good. I'm having trouble thinking who would be better besides Harden. Maybe Ellis. Some youngsters (Waiters, Oliadipo, Evans, Thompson) will probably pass him up in the next year or two. But I don't think any of them will ever be as good as Wade was. I really don't think any of them will even be close.
+1 for the overall post. -1 about Ellis. High volume chucker who is undersized and can't do much of anything besides score 20 points on 20 shots.
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He is a SG, and he certainly has a better future as he is younger, but he was not better this past season, and with Wade being more of the focal point of the offense going into next year with LBJ gone, he may not be better next year either.
Last year:
Wade: 19.0 PPG, 4.7 APG, 4.5 RPG, 1.5 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 54.5% FG, 28.1% 3PT FG, 73.3% FT
Thompson: 18.4 PPG, 2.2 APG, 3.1 RPG, 0.9 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 44.4% FG, 41.7% 3 PT FG, 79.5% FT
So Thompson was a better 3 point shooter and free throw shooter, but that was it. I know Wade had a "down" year by Wade's standards, but let's be honest, Wade was still very good last year. Sure, he look tired, old, and worn down at times in the Playoffs. But so did Manu Ginobli in the 2013 NBA Finals and he sure as heck looked alright to me last year despite being "old" (by NBA standards). Wade will be very good next year and the Heat won't be awful.
Comparing those statistics is crazy. You need to consider what type of players they are. Sure, Wade's 28.1% 3FG% doesn't look good, but he never shot 3-pointers (less than 5% of his attempts). Meanwhile, more than 40% of Klay's shots are treys. Completely different players.
But, getting to eFG%... Wade was at 55.1%; Thompson at 53.3%. Usage - Wade a 28% guy.. Thompson less than 23%.
Thompson is a shooter. That's it. Look at the free throw rates. Look at the assist rates. Look at the offensive rebounding (Thompson is allergic to the offensive glass).
Such different players and showing a few traditional stats is an injustice.
All that said, by most reasonable measurements Wade was a better player last season when he played.
HOWEVER... Wade's obviously on a decline.. how fast will he fall is the question... his usage and assist rate are falling.. turnovers rising.. a saving grace for him is that he's never been a good 3-point shooter. He's been a bad one. So the past few years as he's stopped shooting as frequently from deep, there is a mathematical boost.
He needs help to score more now than he did in the past. But he's smarter with his shots. As long as he continues to take and make good shots inside of 10 feet and especially around the tin, he'll be fine. But certainly on the decline and it could accelerate.
Klay Thompson is a kid that can shoot. He shoots well, but won't ever put his stamp on his teams like Wade did.
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Comparing those statistics is crazy. You need to consider what type of players they are. Sure, Wade's 28.1% 3FG% doesn't look good, but he never shot 3-pointers (less than 5% of his attempts). Meanwhile, more than 40% of Klay's shots are treys. Completely different players.
But, getting to eFG%... Wade was at 55.1%; Thompson at 53.3%. Usage - Wade a 28% guy.. Thompson less than 23%.
Thompson is a shooter. That's it. Look at the free throw rates. Look at the assist rates. Look at the offensive rebounding (Thompson is allergic to the offensive glass).
Such different players and showing a few traditional stats is an injustice.
All that said, by most reasonable measurements Wade was a better player last season when he played.
HOWEVER... Wade's obviously on a decline.. how fast will he fall is the question... his usage and assist rate are falling.. turnovers rising.. a saving grace for him is that he's never been a good 3-point shooter. He's been a bad one. So the past few years as he's stopped shooting as frequently from deep, there is a mathematical boost.
He needs help to score more now than he did in the past. But he's smarter with his shots. As long as he continues to take and make good shots inside of 10 feet and especially around the tin, he'll be fine. But certainly on the decline and it could accelerate.
Klay Thompson is a kid that can shoot. He shoots well, but won't ever put his stamp on his teams like Wade did.
Wade was incredibly efficient last year. He's actually a fantastic #2 player on a championship level team for that reason.
HOWEVER, injuries and high salary make him less attractive.
IF he can be healthy this year, he'll be great. But, father time is undefeated, and eventually Wade is just going to have too many miles on him. Might be this year, but be in 3 years. Hard to say until you see him this year.
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Might be this year, but be in 3 years. Hard to say until you see him this year.
He signed a 2 year deal so my guess would be he hangs em up once his contract is done.
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He is a SG, and he certainly has a better future as he is younger, but he was not better this past season, and with Wade being more of the focal point of the offense going into next year with LBJ gone, he may not be better next year either.
I understand your point, Wades - I just think the added demand on him will hasten his slide considering the physical condition of his legs.
But you are certainly right on the state of shooting guards in the NBA. Pretty sad when Monte Ellis or Lance Stephenson could be the 2nd best at the position.
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I love how people consider a 19.5 ppg, 4.7 apg, 4.5 rpg SG to be all washed up. He's not up to his old self but Wade is still pretty damn good. I'm having trouble thinking who would be better besides Harden. Maybe Ellis. Some youngsters (Waiters, Oliadipo, Evans, Thompson) will probably pass him up in the next year or two. But I don't think any of them will ever be as good as Wade was. I really don't think any of them will even be close.
No kidding, and what was he - one of two guards in the league to shoot over 50%? When on the court he was a top 2/SG last year, and they didn't want him on the court for 80/games.