MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: JakeBarnes on August 14, 2014, 11:46:01 AM
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Stone at 4
Ellenson at 6
Pritzl-47
Heldt-56
Cheatham-80
Bryant crawford-82
NickN-89
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Who was the poster that complained about Wojo taking Heldt? lol
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Just posted this on another thread. You beat me by two minutes!
Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere but Scout now has Matt Heldt as a 4 star recruit. He's the #15 center in the class and is ranked #56 overall.
Looks like a nice little bump.
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So:
Two top 100 guys verbaled
On two top 10 guys
On three other top 100 guys
Question ... did our recruiting take a dip from Brent to Wojo?
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LittleMurs
"Yes, Matt Heldt. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy to have Matt, but he's got some rising to do to be a top 100 guy. Another reason why rankings should be taken with a grain of salt."
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LittleMurs
"Yes, Matt Heldt. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy to have Matt, but he's got some rising to do to be a top 100 guy. Another reason why rankings should be taken with a grain of salt."
If scout puts a number next to your name less than 100 (56 in this case), isn't that the definition of a "top 100 guy?"
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LittleMurs
"Yes, Matt Heldt. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy to have Matt, but he's got some rising to do to be a top 100 guy. Another reason why rankings should be taken with a grain of salt."
That quote there sounds like someone knew Heldt was underrated. Not sure I see what is wrong with it.
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Who was the poster that complained about Wojo taking Heldt? lol
That was me.
But a lot you said "rankings mean nothing" but now it's "Look at his ranking"
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That was me.
But a lot you said "rankings mean nothing" but now it's "Look at his ranking"
We have our cake and eat it too!
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Excited about Matt's jump, disappointed in Nick's slip, pissed that Pritzl is top 50.
(Think I might be wrong on Nick - higher rankings on 247 and ESPN, but I think he had been 91st on Scout's previous ranking - can someone give context?)
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That was me.
But a lot you said "rankings mean nothing" but now it's "Look at his ranking"
I think people were trying to point out that he was vastly underrated at the time he committed. Rankings really don't mean anything other than we all get to feel warm and fuzzy about it.
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Excited about Matt's jump, disappointed in Nick's slip, pissed that Pritzl is top 50.
Pritzl is a touch overrated, IMO. There's not that much of a gap between he and Nick.
There's a really good chance that Wojo lands four top 100 players, including a top 10 guy, in his first class. Very impressive.
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Wasn't Noskowiak the stand out player in a tournament while playing on the same team as both Heldt and Pritzl recently?
(I understand that rankings are based on more than a 3 game tournament, just pointing out that if Nick took a "dip" in the rankings, he can still hang with those "rising.")
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Stone at 4
Ellenson at 6
Pritzl-47
Heldt-56
Cheatham-80
Bryant crawford-82
NickN-89
Also Jimmy Whitt at 52.
Here's the link to the list: http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2015 (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2015)
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Wasn't Noskowiak the stand out player in a tournament while playing on the same team as both Heldt and Pritzl recently?
(I understand that rankings are based on more than a 3 game tournament, just pointing out that if Nick took a "dip" in the rankings, he can still hang with those "rising.")
Yes he was but that wasn't an AAU event so none of the gurus saw him it. It was a round robin all star team tournament from 4 states IIRC
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"Justin Patton, a Creighton commit, and Matt Heldt, a Marquette pledge, were also big movers in the new rankings. Heading into July not much was known about either, but Patton and Heldt both proved worthy of a lofty ranking...Heldt, who also stands 6-foot-10, impressed on offense with hooks shoots and catch and shoot jump shots. Both are promising big men and good early pick ups for their respective schools."
http://scouthoops.scout.com/story/1433954-updated-scout-top-100? (http://scouthoops.scout.com/story/1433954-updated-scout-top-100?)
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Earlier today Mark Miller tweeted that he still thinks Ellenson will become a Warrior and his guess for Stone was UCLA or Wisco. This class is going to be insane.
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Scouts rankings are always different than the other recruiting sources. Not that they are a bad indicator of talent, but they are way different than ESPN or 247 rankings. I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket on this. Wait for ESPN's update, they pay big money to have the best scouts rate these players, so they are more trustwothy rankings IMO.
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Scouts rankings are always different than the other recruiting sources. Not that they are a bad indicator of talent, but they are way different than ESPN or 247 rankings. I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket on this. Wait for ESPN's update, they pay big money to have the best scouts rate these players, so they are more trustwothy rankings IMO.
I actually think 247 has the best. They do their own rankings and then they also do a composite ranking which is the average of all the ranking sites.
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I actually think 247 has the best. They do their own rankings and then they also do a composite ranking which is the average of all the ranking sites.
Agreed the composite is really nice, but I was saying if I had to trust a single source I would go with ESPN
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Earlier today Mark Miller tweeted that he still thinks Ellenson will become a Warrior and his guess for Stone was UCLA or Wisco. This class is going to be insane.
Small correction. Mark Miller tweeted Wisconsin or UCONN for Stone, not UCLA
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Small correction. Mark Miller tweeted Wisconsin or UCONN for Stone, not UCLA
How does UCONN still get top recruits? Legendary coach is gone, granted they won it after him, but I still don't get it. They're in a terrible conference, Hartford is the worst city I've ever visited and it's not a great academic university. Strange.
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How does UCONN still get top recruits? Legendary coach is gone, granted they won it after him, but I still don't get it. They're in a terrible conference, Hartford is the worst city I've ever visited and it's not a great academic university. Strange.
Kevin Ollie is building a good reputation -- NBA made a run at him. Lot's of alums in the NBA and they just won a NC.....some would say it is a better situation than we have.
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How does UCONN still get top recruits? Legendary coach is gone, granted they won it after him, but I still don't get it. They're in a terrible conference, Hartford is the worst city I've ever visited and it's not a great academic university. Strange.
Not to be that guy, but isn't UCONN in Storrs?
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Kevin Ollie is building a good reputation -- NBA made a run at him. Lot's of alums in the NBA and they just won a NC.....some would say it is a better situation than we have.
Some? I'd say pretty much everyone.
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How does UCONN still get top recruits? Legendary coach is gone, granted they won it after him, but I still don't get it. They're in a terrible conference, Hartford is the worst city I've ever visited and it's not a great academic university. Strange.
Oh man, I could see fans of other schools saying something similar about Marquette.
How in the world is Marquette getting recruits? The Big East isn't a Power 5 conference, NONE of their games are on ESPN, Milwaukee's the coldest city in the world, and their rising coach left the program for VA Tech! It's probably not even a good school.
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Earlier today Mark Miller tweeted that he still thinks Ellenson will become a Warrior and his guess for Stone was UCLA or Wisco. This class is going to be insane.
It'd be fantastic to have that'd be a natty contender when they're sophs if you ask me. It's give Wojo time to implement and get HC experience, defs enough talent around between Du Wil, Burton, JJJ as SRs then Cohen as a Jr with Heldt, NN, Ellenson and whomever as sophs. That's our year (hopefully it goes better than our other two years we were primed to make a run in 09 and 12)
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So:
Two top 100 guys verbaled
On two top 10 guys
On three other top 100 guys
Question ... did our recruiting take a dip from Brent to Wojo?
I think your reputation a a recruiter grows IF you land the top recruits. "Being in on someone" is a nice start but doesn't mean sheet.
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Not to be that guy, but isn't UCONN in Storrs?
Yup. The campus in Storrs is beautiful (and about 30 miles east of Hartford -- but essentially a world away)
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It'd be fantastic to have that'd be a natty contender when they're sophs if you ask me. It's give Wojo time to implement and get HC experience, defs enough talent around between Du Wil, Burton, JJJ as SRs then Cohen as a Jr with Heldt, NN, Ellenson and whomever as sophs. That's our year (hopefully it goes better than our other two years we were primed to make a run in 09 and 12)
Just about every single year we say "If we land this guy and this guy we will make a run at a National Title." Still have yet to do that. Elite 8 was nice, though.
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Small correction. Mark Miller tweeted Wisconsin or UCONN for Stone, not UCLA
If MU lands Ellenson and Stone goes to UW, I think that could actually be pretty fun and really good for both programs. I know there are people here that would be real pissed at Stone going to UW (and I completely get it), but I think it could elevate the rivalry and both programs. Now if Ellenson goes somewhere else and UW lands Stone...that would suck.
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Agreed the composite is really nice, but I was saying if I had to trust a single source I would go with ESPN
Really? Espn has publicly admitted to not investing a lot of time into recruiting information because they think the other sites have them beat. They are who I look to last
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Just about every single year we say "If we land this guy and this guy we will make a run at a National Title." Still have yet to do that. Elite 8 was nice, though.
I agree with this, but never before was one of those guys a top 10 player and the other top 80 player who we both have great chances with
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Stone at 4
Ellenson at 6
Pritzl-47
Heldt-56
Cheatham-80
Bryant crawford-82
NickN-89
I'll take ALL OF THEM!
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Yup. The campus in Storrs is beautiful (and about 30 miles east of Hartford -- but essentially a world away)
Ah. Didn't know that, so they travel 30 miles to play the games?
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Earlier today Mark Miller tweeted that he still thinks Ellenson will become a Warrior and his guess for Stone was UCLA or Wisco. This class is going to be insane.
It will be sacrilege if Stone picks either Whisky or UCLA. Both Stone and Ellenson should use common sense and pick MU. No other schools allowed. Have never seen either play, but judging by these rankings, 4 and 6--not much difference in their impact?
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Ah. Didn't know that, so they travel 30 miles to play the games?
Most UConn games are played in Storrs with some of the more atrractive games scheduled for Hartford.
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Just about every single year we say "If we land this guy and this guy we will make a run at a National Title." Still have yet to do that. Elite 8 was nice, though.
But the difference is we could actually land said players this time.
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Small correction. Mark Miller tweeted Wisconsin or UCONN for Stone, not UCLA
Stone's schools listed as Connecticut, Kansas, Kentucky, Wisconsin. No mention of our Glorious Alma Mater. Oversight or are we out of the running?
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Stone's schools listed as Connecticut, Kansas, Kentucky, Wisconsin. No mention of our Glorious Alma Mater. Oversight or are we out of the running?
We've never been in the running.
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How does UCONN still get top recruits? Legendary coach is gone, granted they won it after him, but I still don't get it. They're in a terrible conference, Hartford is the worst city I've ever visited and it's not a great academic university. Strange.
The school has a great basketball tradition. It is highly visible in the New York market. The campus is in Storrs Connecticut which is in the middle of farmland which for some kids is a nice change of pace. They have a great young coach. The school has the same academic rating as most of the Big Ten Schools. Other than that I agree with you.
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We've never been in the running.
247 would disagree.
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We've never been in the running.
Yes, because you know better than all of the recruiting experts who picked Stone to MU. ::)
You can make the argument that him ending up at a blue blood was always the more likely option. But to say we were never in the running is just a intentionally negative hyperbole
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You know who else I noticed fell? Charles Matthews. He's all the way down to 61. He was number 11 at one point I believe. I wonder what the chances are of him getting recruited over and getting Caliparted?
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247 would disagree.
Yes, because you know better than all of the recruiting experts who picked Stone to MU. ::)
You can make the argument that him ending up at a blue blood was always the more likely option. But to say we were never in the running is just a intentionally negative hyperbole
Okay...
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You know who else I noticed fell? Charles Matthews. He's all the way down to 61. He was number 11 at one point I believe. I wonder what the chances are of him getting recruited over and getting Caliparted?
Very good.
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It will be sacrilege if Stone picks either Whisky or UCLA. Both Stone and Ellenson should use common sense and pick MU. No other schools allowed. Have never seen either play, but judging by these rankings, 4 and 6--not much difference in their impact?
UCONN or Wisconsin
Im putting my money on UCONN
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Most UConn games are played in Storrs with some of the more atrractive games scheduled for Hartford.
Yes, the more atrractice (sic) games are scheduled for Hartford.. like last year: Concordia (Ill.), Yale, Loyola (Md.), Maine, and USF.
Sounded good, though.
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Yes, the more atrractice (sic) games are scheduled for Hartford.. like last year: Concordia (Ill.), Yale, Loyola (Md.), Maine, and USF.
Sounded good, though.
Don't know about last year in the AAC/post-Be. But look back over the years. Far different story.
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Don't know about last year in the AAC/post-Be. But look back over the years. Far different story.
Actually, UConn has always divided its home schedule and played as many quality opponents in each venue. In 2010-11 they played nationally ranked Louisville and Notre Dame in Storrs and nationally ranked Syracuse and Georgetown in Hartford. In the 2011-12 season they played big-name opponents Pitt and Syracuse in Storrs but MU and Cincinnati in Hartford. The following year they played Geoigetown in Storrs but Louisville and Syracuse in Hartford.
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Don't know about last year in the AAC/post-Be. But look back over the years. Far different story.
Man, you're not kiddin'! Their last year in the BEast they greats they brought to Hartford included American International, Boston U, Central Florida, Maine (last year too! Lucky Hartford!!) and Iona!!
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Man, you're not kiddin'! Their last year in the BEast they greats they brought to Hartford included American International, Boston U, Central Florida, Maine (last year too! Lucky Hartford!!) and Iona!!
Relax BeeJay. Sometimes you just gotta let people believe what they're gonna believe. Kinda like people wanting to believe there was ever a chance Diamond Stone was coming to MU.
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Relax BeeJay. Sometimes you just gotta let people believe what they're gonna believe. Kinda like people wanting to believe there was ever a chance Diamond Stone was coming to MU.
Haha says the guy who consistently said there was no chance of ellenson/stone. Recruiting is a very fluid process young man, one which you need to respect ;)
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Relax BeeJay. Sometimes you just gotta let people believe what they're gonna believe. Kinda like people wanting to believe there was ever a chance Diamond Stone was coming to MU.
Okay....
;)
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Stone at 4
Ellenson at 6
Pritzl-47
Heldt-56
Cheatham-80
Bryant crawford-82
NickN-89
A few more names to add to the list.
Dwayne Bacon - 19 (Buzz recruited him, don't think Wojo is bothering)
Jimmy Whitt - 52 (In his final 6)
Malik Beasley - 59 (Wojo was on him in the beginning of May, not sure where we stand with him now)
Glynn Watson - 62 (Mark Miller projected him to us a while back, haven't heard anything since Wojo took over)
Matt McQuaid - 71 (Wojo recruited him before he committed to SMU. Haven't heard anything since he decommitted)
Kerwin Roach - 81 (Wojo just offered 2 weeks ago, SMU and TAMU are perceived frontrunners)
Corey Sanders - 90 (Buzz recruited him, at one point he tweeted we were in his final 3. Scoopers were pissed because the other two schools on the list weren't prestigious enough ::))
Terrence Mann - 99 (In his final 6)
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A few more names to add to the list.
Dwayne Bacon - 19 (Buzz recruited him, don't think Wojo is bothering)
Jimmy Whitt - 52 (In his final 6)
Malik Beasley - 59 (Wojo was on him in the beginning of May, not sure where we stand with him now)
Glynn Watson - 62 (Mark Miller projected him to us a while back, haven't heard anything since Wojo took over)
Matt McQuaid - 71 (Wojo recruited him before he committed to SMU. Haven't heard anything since he decommitted)
Kerwin Roach - 81 (Wojo just offered 2 weeks ago, SMU and TAMU are perceived frontrunners)
Corey Sanders - 90 (Buzz recruited him, at one point he tweeted we were in his final 3. Scoopers were pissed because the other two schools on the list weren't prestigious enough ::))
Terrence Mann - 99 (In his final 6)
We didn't make Glynn Watson's final 5.
Alex Kline @TheRecruitScoop Aug 8
2015 St. Joseph’s (IL) PG Glynn Watson is down to Nebraska, West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee & Creighton.
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Haha says the guy who consistently said there was no chance of ellenson/stone. Recruiting is a very fluid process young man, one which you need to respect ;)
Well, we had a coaching change so that changes things a little bit. We never had a shot at Henry when Buzz was here. Wojo has done some big time work on that front. But nothing has changed with Diamond. We're not even as close to landing Diamond as the Badgers were to landing Tokoto, and Tokoto was NEVER going to Wisconsin despite "listing" them as the consolation prize winner.
Feel free to believe what you want. If it helps you sleep at night, then sure, we were SOOOOOO close to getting Diamond. He even visited MU, came to games, listed us for a period of time, etc. So yeah, so close! If only it weren't for Georgetown, Kentucky, UCONN, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, and Duke he MAY have considered Marquette after Wisconsin. So we were right there to the end!
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We didn't make Glynn Watson's final 5.
Alex Kline @TheRecruitScoop Aug 8
2015 St. Joseph’s (IL) PG Glynn Watson is down to Nebraska, West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee & Creighton.
I'm fairly certain that Wojo wasn't interested.
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We didn't make Glynn Watson's final 5.
Alex Kline @TheRecruitScoop Aug 8
2015 St. Joseph’s (IL) PG Glynn Watson is down to Nebraska, West Virginia, Maryland, Tennessee & Creighton.
Good catch
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Well, we had a coaching change so that changes things a little bit. We never had a shot at Henry when Buzz was here. Wojo has done some big time work on that front. But nothing has changed with Diamond. We're not even as close to landing Diamond as the Badgers were to landing Tokoto, and Tokoto was NEVER going to Wisconsin despite "listing" them as the consolation prize winner.
Feel free to believe what you want. If it helps you sleep at night, then sure, we were SOOOOOO close to getting Diamond. He even visited MU, came to games, listed us for a period of time, etc. So yeah, so close! If only it weren't for Georgetown, Kentucky, UCONN, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, and Duke he MAY have considered Marquette after Wisconsin. So we were right there to the end!
You are so lucky to have been so close to two talented basketball recruits that included you in their inner circle and shared their inner thoughts about their recruiting processes ::)
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You are so lucky to have been so close to two talented basketball recruits that included you in their inner circle and shared their inner thoughts about their recruiting processes ::)
Again, believe what you want. I could not care less. I am *fairly* confident in where I heard this from. I don't say that often, but when I have...well...
Like I said, if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Diamond Stone listed us for a long, long time. So damn, we were close. So close. Win some, lose some. Juuuuust lost this one in a tight one.
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I'm fairly certain Wades is right here. My understanding is that Diamond's dad wasn't a big fan of Buzz.
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Again, believe what you want. I could not care less. I am *fairly* confident in where I heard this from. I don't say that often, but when I have...well...
Like I said, if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Diamond Stone listed us for a long, long time. So damn, we were close. So close. Win some, lose some. Juuuuust lost this one in a tight one.
I believe you and don't think Stone is considering us, but going off what you know are you in the camp that Ellenson is half in the bag?
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Again, believe what you want. I could not care less. I am *fairly* confident in where I heard this from. I don't say that often, but when I have...well...
Like I said, if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Diamond Stone listed us for a long, long time. So damn, we were close. So close. Win some, lose some. Juuuuust lost this one in a tight one.
As the great Bob Uecker once said as the ball careened off the backstop, "Juuuuuuust a little bit outside".
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I believe you and don't think Stone is considering us, but going off what you know are you in the camp that Ellenson is half in the bag?
If Mark Miller is publicly tweeting about it and posting it on 247, I feel very good about it. Very good.
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To steer the conversation in another direction, would we rather have Cheatham or Whitt? I know we've been the favorite for Cheatham for a while and Mark Miller predicted him a Warrior, but it seems that Whitt might be a better player. And I think opening up a Missouri/St. Louis pipeline would be awesome.
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Again, believe what you want. I could not care less. I am *fairly* confident in where I heard this from. I don't say that often, but when I have...well...
Like I said, if it helps you sleep at night, then sure, Diamond Stone listed us for a long, long time. So damn, we were close. So close. Win some, lose some. Juuuuust lost this one in a tight one.
You are right. Honestly we are arguing over vocabulary which is pointless. I will say that I have heard from sources not affiliated with Marquette that we were the front runner on Mr Stone for a while. I trust who I heard it from.
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As the great Bob Uecker once said as the ball careened off the backstop, "Juuuuuuust a little bit outside".
Bingo.
I believe you and don't think Stone is considering us, but going off what you know are you in the camp that Ellenson is half in the bag?
I don't think he's half in the bag, but I do feel good about our chances. Which is absolutely crazy, because before Wojo, we had absolutely, positively no chance of getting Henry.
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You are right. Honestly we are arguing over vocabulary which is pointless. I will say that I have heard from sources not affiliated with Marquette that we were the front runner on Mr Stone for a while. I trust who I heard it from.
Fair enough. I have heard differently, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. If he ends up coming to Marquette, I will be pleasantly, but absolutely and completely, shocked. And if he doesn't, it really doesn't matter if it was a last second decision that he chose a different school over us, or if he never even looked at the campus once.
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To steer the conversation in another direction, would we rather have Cheatham or Whitt? I know we've been the favorite for Cheatham for a while and Mark Miller predicted him a Warrior, but it seems that Whitt might be a better player. And I think opening up a Missouri/St. Louis pipeline would be awesome.
Honestly, of the videos I have seen (not the best source I know) I have preferred Cheathams game to Whitts. Anyone actually seen either of the two play?
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Do we have a realistic chance of landing Stone and/or Ellenson? One more than the other?
We will not get either.
This was about a month and a half ago. So you can just cut the bs that you actually had a clue on this one. Wojo had made inroads with the ellensons well before this.
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Honestly, of the videos I have seen (not the best source I know) I have preferred Cheathams game to Whitts. Anyone actually seen either of the two play?
No but they both sure have great names.
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I am thrilled with Wojo's recruiting to date. Better than I expected from a guy just a few months on the job. If he closes the deal on Henry and one of the other top-100s, it will have been a hell of a first class. Even if Henry goes elsewhere, I will remain confident that Wojo will put the program back on solid footing.
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I am thrilled with Wojo's recruiting to date. Better than I expected from a guy just a few months on the job. If he closes the deal on Henry and one of the other top-100s, it will have been a hell of a first class. Even if Henry goes elsewhere, I will remain confident that Wojo will put the program back on solid footing.
Lost Hill, Shayok and Pierce. Held on to Cohen and Noskowiak. That's probably as good as we could have hoped. Tranfers from Carlino, W Ellenson and Levin, verbal from Heldt - not what I would call thrilling, but solid. If we sign Henry and another guy in the 60-100 range I will be officially thrilled - but without Henry, not so much.
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I am thrilled with Wojo's recruiting to date. Better than I expected from a guy just a few months on the job. If he closes the deal on Henry and one of the other top-100s, it will have been a hell of a first class. Even if Henry goes elsewhere, I will remain confident that Wojo will put the program back on solid footing.
Agreed. As Wadesworld pointed out above, it doesn't really matter if we finish second or last in the recruitment of Ellenson if we miss. But the fact that we had zero shot at him before and Wojo has gotten us to this point now really gives me a good feeling about his ability to recruit going forward.
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The 3 cats who aren't matriculatin' cuz Bumstead wasn't wanted here no more don't bother me at all. For the record, I prefer Ellenson over Stone, anyway.
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This was about a month and a half ago. So you can just cut the bs that you actually had a clue on this one. Wojo had made inroads with the ellensons well before this.
Yeah I have no clue. All the stuff that I posted is, as you said, BS and I really am just taking complete shots in the dark. Believe what you will. I couldn't care less.
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The 3 cats who aren't matriculatin' cuz Bumstead wasn't wanted here no more don't bother me at all. For the record, I prefer Ellenson over Stone, anyway.
I'd prefer Stone, just because top-notch post players are so hard to find. But while Stone might only stay 1-2 years, Henry might be a 3-4 year guy.
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I am thrilled with Wojo's recruiting to date. Better than I expected from a guy just a few months on the job. If he closes the deal on Henry and one of the other top-100s, it will have been a hell of a first class. Even if Henry goes elsewhere, I will remain confident that Wojo will put the program back on solid footing.
I agree with you. He has done very well so far and we are in the mix with lot's of quality players.
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I'd prefer Stone, just because top-notch post players are so hard to find. But while Stone might only stay 1-2 years, Henry might be a 3-4 year guy.
Unless Henry has injury issues, ain't no way he's in college more than 2 years. He's doing things like leading the national team in scoring & rebounding while moving up in analysts' ratings.
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The 3 cats who aren't matriculatin' cuz Bumstead wasn't wanted here no more don't bother me at all. For the record, I prefer Ellenson over Stone, anyway.
The only one I care about is Hill. I think he has all the makings of a star. 2G scoring ability & athleticism together with PG handles and vision, topped off with what looks like a Crowder-type mentality all over the court. It would have been a phenomenal feat for Wojo to keep Hill in the fold though, he clearly wanted to play for Buzz no matter what if he was willing to follow to the high major dumpster that is VA Tech.
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For the record, I prefer Ellenson over Stone, anyway.
Having seen both of them play, including once against each other, I'm with you.
And I swear this isn't any sort of sour grapes, but I have a feeling Stone won't be a 1-2 and done player. He's very good when he's fully switched on. I just haven't seen that enough yet from him.
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Yeah I have no clue. All the stuff that I posted is, as you said, BS and I really am just taking complete shots in the dark. Believe what you will. I couldn't care less.
I don't think you do have a clue. I feel like lots of posters feel like they have great connections/sources at MU and in the recruiting community. It makes them feel like they are more important and have all this inside info.They speak like they know what's going on behind the scenes. I have found that there are really 2 people with very good "insider" info on this board. The rest of the posters just know people who may or may not know anything, but mostly they are just speculating I feel. Wadesworld posts on June 3rd saying neither are coming...this might end up being true, but a lot of more connected people than him think we end up with Ellenson. Unless he had dinner at the Ellenson's on the 3rd and heard him say I'm 100% sure I'm not going to MU, he should stop passing his opinion off as a fact.
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Having seen both of them play, including once against each other, I'm with you.
And I swear this isn't any sort of sour grapes, but I have a feeling Stone won't be a 1-2 and done player. He's very good when he's fully switched on. I just haven't seen that enough yet from him.
I have no doubt whichever college coach gets the benefit of coaching him will have no problem bringing that out in him very quickly.
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I don't think you do have a clue. I feel like lots of posters feel like they have great connections/sources at MU and in the recruiting community. It makes them feel like they are more important and have all this inside info.They speak like they know what's going on behind the scenes. I have found that there are really 2 people with very good "insider" info on this board. The rest of the posters just know people who may or may not know anything, but mostly they are just speculating I feel. Wadesworld posts on June 3rd saying neither are coming...this might end up being true, but a lot of more connected people than him think we end up with Ellenson. Unless he had dinner at the Ellenson's on the 3rd and heard him say I'm 100% sure I'm not going to MU, he should stop passing his opinion off as a fact.
You had no problem going through my post history and finding that. Feel free to continue on in your search and see what I have said I feel "fairly confident" about. I'll let you decide whether or not it's a bunch of BS and I just happened to get lucky. You'll believe what you want.
By the way, June 3rd was more than "about a month and a half ago." Maybe my math is off though. Things change in the recruiting world, especially shortly following a coaching change. Again, I may be wrong about that and if Ellenson was never coming here when Buzz was here maybe in the recruiting world that means Ellenson would never come here with Wojo here. I have changed my opinion on Ellenson based on what I have heard, and that is due to Buzz being gone and Wojo being here. So no, I am not saying Ellenson is not coming. I had been saying that, but Wojo has done a lot of work to change that. Stone, however, is not, and has never been, coming to Marquette.
What do I know though? I just throw out "BS" and see what sticks.
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You had no problem going through my post history and finding that. Feel free to continue on in your search and see what I have said I feel "fairly confident" about. I'll let you decide whether or not it's a bunch of BS and I just happened to get lucky. You'll believe what you want.
By the way, June 3rd was more than "about a month and a half ago." Maybe my math is off though. Things change in the recruiting world, especially shortly following a coaching change. Again, I may be wrong about that and if Ellenson was never coming here when Buzz was here maybe in the recruiting world that means Ellenson would never come here with Wojo here. I have changed my opinion on Ellenson based on what I have heard, and that is due to Buzz being gone and Wojo being here. So no, I am not saying Ellenson is not coming. I had been saying that, but Wojo has done a lot of work to change that. Stone, however, is not, and has never been, coming to Marquette.
What do I know though? I just throw out "BS" and see what sticks.
I didn't look through your post history, it was put up right on this thread. Buzz went to VATech on March 21st. Two and a half months is not very shortly after a coaching change. You made your statement on June 3rd that we weren't getting either. Recruiting is a very fluid situation and that's why when you say things like we are getting neither, it looks like you are throwing out BS, especially when it looks to be that there is a high likelihood you will be wrong. When you change your mind to now we have a chance, it proves your statement on June 3rd was BS. Things change, don't be so quick to pass things off as fact.
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I didn't look through your post history, it was put up right on this thread. Buzz went to VATech on March 21st. Two and a half months is not very shortly after a coaching change. You made your statement on June 3rd that we weren't getting either. Recruiting is a very fluid situation and that's why when you say things like we are getting neither, it looks like you are throwing out BS, especially when it looks to be that there is a high likelihood you will be wrong. When you change your mind to now we have a chance, it proves your statement on June 3rd was BS. Things change, don't be so quick to pass things off as fact.
2 months (Wojo hired April 1, June 3 post) isn't shortly after a coaching change? Wow, okay. We'll just agree to disagree there.
Again, if you think I spew BS that's fine. Believe what you will. Doesn't make a difference to me. I'll continue to share what I feel is necessary and you can continue to think I don't know anything.
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I didn't look through your post history, it was put up right on this thread. Buzz went to VATech on March 21st. Two and a half months is not very shortly after a coaching change. You made your statement on June 3rd that we weren't getting either. Recruiting is a very fluid situation and that's why when you say things like we are getting neither, it looks like you are throwing out BS, especially when it looks to be that there is a high likelihood you will be wrong. When you change your mind to now we have a chance, it proves your statement on June 3rd was BS. Things change, don't be so quick to pass things off as fact.
His statement on June 3rd may end up being innaccurate. But that doesn't mean it was BS given the information at the time.
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His statement on June 3rd may end up being innaccurate. But that doesn't mean it was BS given the information at the time.
To say he is not coming here gives off the impression he is going elsewhere. Don't you think a statement like "it appears we are not currently in the running" is a more logical statement? When you pass off info like it is a fact, it really doesn't leave much wiggle room for your statement to change. To me it was his opinion and he was passing it off as factual. Clearly it has proven to be untrue, as we are now the likely favorite to land his services. I understand things change, that's why it is stupid to throw out such statements.
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Unless Henry has injury issues, ain't no way he's in college more than 2 years. He's doing things like leading the national team in scoring & rebounding while moving up in analysts' ratings.
We'll see.
Right now, Stone's game (low post scorer/passer and rebounder) is more settled and advanced than Henry's game (probably a swing '4' at this point). He also has a more NBA ready body.
Henry's game is more versatile and two years is a long time, so I agree it is entirely possible that Henry may be ready in two years for the NBA, but we has a lot of work to do.
But he definitely is not a '3' in the NBA, so he still has work to be able play on a daily basis against big, strong guys.
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Unless Henry has injury issues, ain't no way he's in college more than 2 years. He's doing things like leading the national team in scoring & rebounding while moving up in analysts' ratings.
Except he is not leading the national team in scoring or rebounding.
http://archive.usab.com/misc/14_mu17_usa.pdf
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Except he is not leading the national team in scoring or rebounding.
http://archive.usab.com/misc/14_mu17_usa.pdf
Thanks for sharing that link Sultan. The one things I do like there with Henry is seeing how productive he has been in the minutes he is playing.
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Except he is not leading the national team in scoring or rebounding.
http://archive.usab.com/misc/14_mu17_usa.pdf
I was referring to today's game
http://archive.usab.com/mens/u17/14_mu17_game_05_box.html
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We'll see.
Right now, Stone's game (low post scorer/passer and rebounder) is more settled and advanced than Henry's game (probably a swing '4' at this point). He also has a more NBA ready body.
Henry's game is more versatile and two years is a long time, so I agree it is entirely possible that Henry may be ready in two years for the NBA, but we has a lot of work to do.
But he definitely is not a '3' in the NBA, so he still has work to be able play on a daily basis against big, strong guys.
I get what you're saying re: playing style. But look at just the last few years of RSCI top 10 guys. The vast majority went pro in 1 or 2 years. If the Scout ranking is any indication of his final RSCI rating, it would be an upset if he stays longer than 2.
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2013-final
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2012-final
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2011-final
Henry has made a name for himself not just on the AAU scene but on the international scene as well. With his height, athleticism, and versatility, NBA GMs will be calling sooner rather than later.
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If Henry comes to Marquette, my guess is that he plays here for two years with his brother...and then leaves. (I hope he is that good.)
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Thanks for sharing that link Sultan. The one things I do like there with Henry is seeing how productive he has been in the minutes he is playing.
Yep, he's averaging ~half the minutes as Stone but only 2 ppg less. And I am not knocking Stone one bit. Henry is playing at an elite level right now.
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To say he is not coming here gives off the impression he is going elsewhere. Don't you think a statement like "it appears we are not currently in the running" is a more logical statement? When you pass off info like it is a fact, it really doesn't leave much wiggle room for your statement to change. To me it was his opinion and he was passing it off as factual. Clearly it has proven to be untrue, as we are now the likely favorite to land his services. I understand things change, that's why it is stupid to throw out such statements.
I also get frustrated when people pass off opinions as facts (see posts earlier in this thread) but wades rarely makes statements without some sort of insider knowledge to back it up. If I recall correctly he was the one who first posted about mayo leaving and about Buzz exiting stage left. He has proven that he knows what he's talking about. His delivery could use some work but it is not bs
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I get what you're saying re: playing style. But look at just the last few years of RSCI top 10 guys. The vast majority went pro in 1 or 2 years. If the Scout ranking is any indication of his final RSCI rating, it would be an upset if he stays longer than 2.
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2013-final
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2012-final
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2011-final
Henry has made a name for himself not just on the AAU scene but on the international scene as well. With his height, athleticism, and versatility, NBA GMs will be calling sooner rather than later.
I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. I just don't think there are many legitimate 1-and-dones in this class. I saw where a scout from one NBA team said there is just one in the '15 class.
Henry has earned his ranking this year, but my guess is that he would have been around #20 in either of the last two years. Looney was in the 10-15 range and I would rate him above Ellenson.
But this isn't a knock at him. Ellenson's the one guy i am really hoping for at MU.
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I was referring to today's game
http://archive.usab.com/mens/u17/14_mu17_game_05_box.html
That was yesterday's game.
In today's game Henry had 0 pts on 0/3 FG in 9 minutes.
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I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. I just don't think there are many legitimate 1-and-dones in this class. I saw where a scout from one NBA team said there is just one in the '15 class.
Henry has earned his ranking this year, but my guess is that he would have been around #20 in either of the last two years. Looney was in the 10-15 range and I would rate him above Ellenson.
But this isn't a knock at him. Ellenson's the one guy i am really hoping for at MU.
Totally reasonable
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That was yesterday's game.
In today's game Henry had 0 pts on 0/3 FG in 9 minutes.
You're right, I was wrong. Turns out now he sucks!
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That was yesterday's game.
In today's game Henry had 0 pts on 0/3 FG in 9 minutes.
Oh great. Turns out Wojo can't recruit big men who aren't stiffs, either.
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You're right, I was wrong. Turns out now he sucks!
Exactly. I mean, he only shot 33% from the charity stripe in that one particular game where he played 15 minutes and was 7-10 from the floor.
We don't need any more bad shooters!
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Pull the offer!
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Yeah I have no clue. All the stuff that I posted is, as you said, BS and I really am just taking complete shots in the dark. Believe what you will. I couldn't care less.
So you have a buddy who recently graduated and is in the athletic department and feeding you information, that's great. But I can assure you at the time of that post you were very much wrong.
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With Fisher and Heldt in the hand, they are worth more than a Diamond in the bush at this point. Wojo has spent his time almost exclusively on Henry it seems whose spot fills MU's needs perfectly, and who is a much better fit with Wojo's offense versus Buzz's. It doesn't take much to see that.
Also I laugh at posters who call out people with "sources" on rumor, I mean, message boards. Wade and others have been far more accurate than the professionals like Mike Hunt, who thinks the Titanic character "Jack Dawson" is a MU PG. It is the internet, people. Take it as it is. I am glad informed posters like Wade share here. There are a more than two who are excellent here, but as a community, Scoop pretty much nails it at the end, even if it is calling each other out.
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So you have a buddy who recently graduated and is in the athletic department and feeding you information, that's great. But I can assure you at the time of that post you were very much wrong.
Again, think what you want. Doesn't bother me.
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With Fisher and Heldt in the hand, they are worth more than a Diamond in the bush at this point. Wojo has spent his time almost exclusively on Henry it seems whose spot fills MU's needs perfectly, and who is a much better fit with Wojo's offense versus Buzz's. It doesn't take much to see that.
Also I laugh at posters who call out people with "sources" on rumor, I mean, message boards. Wade and others have been far more accurate than the professionals like Mike Hunt, who thinks the Titanic character "Jack Dawson" is a MU PG. It is the internet, people. Take it as it is. I am glad informed posters like Wade share here. There are a more than two who are excellent here, but as a community, Scoop pretty much nails it at the end, even if it is calling each other out.
Agreed. Scoop knows more than most "experts" regarding Marquette basketball and the truth usually comes out somewhere before it is actually made public by those "experts" somewhere in the bickering and bantering. Good times on MUScoop.
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/story/1435304-matt-heldt-evaluation?s=75&p=1
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/story/1435304-matt-heldt-evaluation?s=75&p=1
Any way to read that without being a Scout Insider?
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Any way to read that without being a Scout Insider?
John Dodds put a partial summary on the article on his free board.