MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouchesSays on July 15, 2014, 10:45:06 AM
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Steve Wojciechowski and his perfect Marquette record
I ran into a friend last weekend who doubles as a college basketball enthusiast, and he wanted to know about Marquette. I admitted I hadn’t been as on the beat in recent months as I would have liked, as the summer of Carmelo Anthony had taken up most of my time in Chicago and my […]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://pixel.wp.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=11883&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1" width="1" height="1" />
Source: Steve Wojciechowski and his perfect Marquette record (http://painttouches.com/2014/07/15/steve-wojciechowski-and-his-perfect-marquette-record/)
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Awesome article!
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one quibble….
For now, Wojciechowski has won. He’s assembled a decorated coaching staff, brought back a legend in Travis Diener and is on the verge of securing the five-star center Williams never could
I assume this is referring to Ellenson……He is not a center…..He could play some center but if he comes to MU he will be primarily a 4/3. Fischer and Heldt will play the 5 the majority of the time.
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one quibble….
For now, Wojciechowski has won. He’s assembled a decorated coaching staff, brought back a legend in Travis Diener and is on the verge of securing the five-star center Williams never could
I assume this is referring to Ellenson……He is not a center…..He could play some center but if he comes to MU he will be primarily a 4/3. Fischer and Heldt will play the 5 the majority of the time.
Is it just me or are we severely jumping the gun on these Ellenson assumptions???
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Is it just me or are we severely jumping the gun on these Ellenson assumptions???
Yep
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one quibble….
For now, Wojciechowski has won. He’s assembled a decorated coaching staff, brought back a legend in Travis Diener and is on the verge of securing the five-star center Williams never could
I assume this is referring to Ellenson……He is not a center…..He could play some center but if he comes to MU he will be primarily a 4/3. Fischer and Heldt will play the 5 the majority of the time.
The article I am reading said five star bigman, which is not necessarily the same as a center.
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The article I am reading said five star bigman, which is not necessarily the same as a center.
+1. An eye for detail will never do one wrong.
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The article I am reading said five star bigman, which is not necessarily the same as a center.
I just read it 45 minutes ago. I can vouch for MUMark that it did say "center" before. It must have been recently edited.
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I just read it 45 minutes ago. I can vouch that MUMark that it did say "center" before. It must have been recently edited.
Well then, it appears that MUMark deserves some props for getting Strotty to rethink that comment.
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Is it just me or are we severely jumping the gun on these Ellenson assumptions???
It seems to me that the gun has already been jumped, but I take it as a good sign that Paint Touches felt comfortable in their phrasing. Let me be the first to officially welcome Henry to the MU family!
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Yep
Good we agree...It is just OhioGoldenEagle and we aren't jumping the gun...glad we can agree ;)
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"For the first time in the post-Tom Crean era, Marquette did not have a transfer during the offseason. "
DON'T JINX!!!
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If I may hazard an opinion: this article, when read in conjunction with the post by mu03eng from Penn State, clarifies important differences between coach Wojo and Mr. Potato Head.
(1) Wojo is smart, has class, and these traits are manifested in his actions, not merely his words; (2) and although Wojo is untested, he comes from a tradition of winning [and whining] and a philosophy of building a program from the ground up (recruiting high school students first and jucos second); (3) he has been mentored in a system that seems to have in-house loyalty and integrity.
On the other hand, (1) Mr. Potato Head, while he has proven he can achieved impressive results, has accomplished these things by being crafty and slick rather than intelligent; [imo: he was a brain-dead game coach fueled by great passion]; (2) he has recruited successfully, but by focusing on quick-fix results, and while often a good judge of talent, he appealed to the players' sense of being overlooked or underappreciated, especially before the Elite 8 appearance; and (3) he had no real mentor, but, being very slick, he turned this disadvantage in his favor by using a persona of a dumb, simple ordinary guy, which masked his lack of in-house loyalty, tradition, and integrity.
I don't wish Mr. Potato Head any ill-will. He made significant contributions to the MU legacy, no question. But, he left, and if you read between the lines, the program was in turmoil when he left...he became part of the problem not part of the solution.
And if first impressions count, and I believe in this case, they do, Coach Wojo has done about all that could be asked of him, and done it with intelligence, class, and integrity...otherwise the players would have transferred. He also seems to appreciate homegrown talent when it is available, as it is this year. Thanks.
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This is the point in the thread, where having lived through the last two regimes and had my heart broken both times, I caution everyone to pump the breaks a little on the Wojo love. He has done and said all the right things, but he has to prove it on the court and prove it with long term actions.
It's a great start, but don't get to high, any fall will hurt worse.
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Agree 100%. I am cautiously optimistic. You want "worse hurt"? Try Mr. Dukiet, 87-88 if I recall that nightmare's precise dates.
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Yeah, and you may want to light up on the ole Duke integrity thing. They have a finely crafted public image, but I don't think they have much more integrity than the average high level, D1 athletic program. Special majors for athletes....Lance Thomas....Coach K's volcanic temper...
And your implication that Buzz Williams isn't very smart is pretty inaccurate as well. He may come off as a country bumpkin type, but I also think that is a pretty well crafted image.
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This is the point in the thread, where having lived through the last two regimes and had my heart broken both times, I caution everyone to pump the breaks a little on the Wojo love. He has done and said all the right things, but he has to prove it on the court and prove it with long term actions.
It's a great start, but don't get to high, any fall will hurt worse.
Agreed. It would be hard to deny that Wojo is exceeding expectations to this point, but we should keep in mind that this is a very early point! Early indications on recruiting seem to indicate a continued upward trajectory (over a predecessor who was himself continued an excellent recruiter), but if his teaching, game prep, and in-game coaching are not up to snuff the recruits could dry up quickly.
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This is the point in the thread, where having lived through the last two regimes and had my heart broken both times, I caution everyone to pump the breaks a little on the Wojo love. He has done and said all the right things, but he has to prove it on the court and prove it with long term actions.
It's a great start, but don't get to high, any fall will hurt worse.
Players also transferred out of Duke, so I could see us having a transfer next year. One of Buzz's problems (I do like Mr Potato head)is that he perpetuated transfers by continuously replacing them with players that were not going to last. It is hard to remember who left when, but Buzz signed mbao when someone else left. Next year mbao left and Buzz most likely replaced him with someone else who left. Wojo has said he will not used a scholarship just to use a scholarship, which I think is smart.
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Agreed. It would be hard to deny that Wojo is exceeding expectations to this point, but we should keep in mind that this is a very early point! Early indications on recruiting seem to indicate a continued upward trajectory (over a predecessor who was himself continued an excellent recruiter), but if his teaching, game prep, and in-game coaching are not up to snuff the recruits could dry up quickly.
He played the game. As for teaching and game prep he should be a step up from our previous 2 coaches who never played D1 ball. In-game coaching always comes from experience so let's hope he is a quick study.
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He played the game. As for teaching and game prep he should be a step up from our previous 2 coaches who never played D1 ball. In-game coaching always comes from experience so let's hope he is a quick study.
We went through this before. The correlation between "top coaches" and "playing D1 ball" isn't a strong one. All sorts of high level college coaches (Izzo, Ryan, Calipari) didn't play D1 ball.
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We went through this before. The correlation between "top coaches" and "playing D1 ball" isn't a strong one. All sorts of high level college coaches (Izzo, Ryan, Calipari) didn't play D1 ball.
But all three of those guys played the game at the college level (and all were point guards). I think that having played the game gives a coach some cred with the players but ultimately it is teaching and communication that wins out (there is clearly more to being a great coach but I think those 2 skills may be the most important).
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But all three of those guys played the game at the college level (and all were point guards). I think that having played the game gives a coach some cred with the players but ultimately it is teaching and communication that wins out (there is clearly more to being a great coach but I think those 2 skills may be the most important).
Yeah there aren't many who didn't play at all.
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Yeah there aren't many who didn't play at all.
The last 2 at Marquette come to mind. And they were both pretty good. Rick Majerus would be another one, set a hell of a screen though.
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But all three of those guys played the game at the college level (and all were point guards). I think that having played the game gives a coach some cred with the players but ultimately it is teaching and communication that wins out (there is clearly more to being a great coach but I think those 2 skills may be the most important).
Very true: Al ( maybe a shooting guard?), John Wooden, Coach K, Pitino, Billy Donnavan, Sean Miller, Shaka (D3), Dean Smith (point guard?), Travis Ford, etc. This was just off the top of my head.
And Sultan putting Bo in with Izzo and Cal is a bit of a stretch. Take away this past season and it's laughable that they're in the same category.
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Very true: Al ( maybe a shooting guard?), John Wooden, Coach K, Pitino, Billy Donnavan, Sean Miller, Shaka (D3), Dean Smith (point guard?), Travis Ford, etc. This was just off the top of my head.
And Sultan putting Bo in with Izzo and Cal is a bit of a stretch. Take away this past season and it's laughable that they're in the same category.
Bo Ryan was one of the "top coaches" in college basketball even prior to last season.
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Very true: Al ( maybe a shooting guard?), John Wooden, Coach K, Pitino, Billy Donnavan, Sean Miller, Shaka (D3), Dean Smith (point guard?), Travis Ford, etc. This was just off the top of my head.
And Sultan putting Bo in with Izzo and Cal is a bit of a stretch. Take away this past season and it's laughable that they're in the same category.
Tom Izzo was a DII All American for Northern Michigan
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Bo Ryan was one of the "top coaches" in college basketball even prior to last season.
Maybe, but I won't admit that. Seeing his name next to Izzo and Calipari there is a clear "one is not like the others".
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And Sultan putting Bo in with Izzo and Cal is a bit of a stretch. Take away this past season and it's laughable that they're in the same category.
I hate Bucky as much as the next sane person, but Bo Ryan is a helluva coach. He's not as good as Izzo or Cal but he is one of the top coaches of the 2000s.
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I hate Bucky as much as the next sane person, but Bo Ryan is a helluva coach. He's not as good as Izzo or Cal but he is one of the top coaches of the 2000s.
Bo is an outstanding coach. I think he has turned into a bit of a prick over his tenure at UW but he can coach with anyone.
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Bo is an outstanding coach. I think he has turned into a bit of a prick over his tenure at UW but he can coach with anyone.
Yes, he is indeed a bit of a prick. 100% all beef penis.
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We went through this before. The correlation between "top coaches" and "playing D1 ball" isn't a strong one. All sorts of high level college coaches (Izzo, Ryan, Calipari) didn't play D1 ball.
Absolutely true .... but then we have Kevin Ollie, Tony Bennet, and Steve Alford.
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Steve Alford. Wake me up when he actually accomplishes something.
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This is the point in the thread, where having lived through the last two regimes and had my heart broken both times, I caution everyone to pump the breaks a little on the Wojo love. He has done and said all the right things, but he has to prove it on the court and prove it with long term actions.
It's a great start, but don't get to high, any fall will hurt worse.
You better get with the program, Mister!
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This is the point in the thread, where having lived through the last two regimes and had my heart broken both times, I caution everyone to pump the breaks a little on the Wojo love. He has done and said all the right things, but he has to prove it on the court and prove it with long term actions.
It's interesting you mention that. Somewhat related, I started reading scoop regularly when Buzz was the coach. From what I read, people seemed to hate Crean and moreover, seemed to have never liked him. I was pretty surprised because, while I heard he wasn't the most pleasant man in the world, he seemed to be an effective coach. Meanwhile midway through the first season people really started to be very positive about Buzz (except Chicos).
Lo and behold, Buzz leaves for browner pastures and the same thing happens to him -- all of a sudden no one likes him, and they never did! Made me think we should treat coaches like politicians -- praise them when they do well and raise your voice when they do poorly. Don't be a fan of the coach, be a fan of the program.
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"For the first time in the post-Tom Crean era, Marquette did not have a transfer during the offseason. "
DON'T JINX!!!
You can thank Buzz Numbnuts for the transfers. Think what would have been lost if El Bozo was not shown the door. Taylor, JJJ, and likely others. Sayonara, Phony lonesome hillbilly cowboy. Cue to the Buzz slurpers derogatory spiel.
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You can thank Buzz Numbnuts for the transfers. Think what would have been lost if El Bozo was not shown the door. Taylor, JJJ, and likely others. Sayonara, Phony lonesome hillbilly cowboy. Cue to the Buzz slurpers derogatory spiel.
Buzz was not "shown the door."
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Buzz was not "shown the door."
Although, the door was not closed either...
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Although, the door was not closed either...
Right. He was not let go, but they didn't go out of their way to make him happy.
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You can thank Buzz Numbnuts for the transfers. Think what would have been lost if El Bozo was not shown the door. Taylor, JJJ, and likely others. Sayonara, Phony lonesome hillbilly cowboy. Cue to the Buzz slurpers derogatory spiel.
No, we do Buzz a greater disservice by not even talking about him. A guy with that ego? Would drive him crazy.
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It's interesting you mention that. Somewhat related, I started reading scoop regularly when Buzz was the coach. From what I read, people seemed to hate Crean and moreover, seemed to have never liked him. I was pretty surprised because, while I heard he wasn't the most pleasant man in the world, he seemed to be an effective coach. Meanwhile midway through the first season people really started to be very positive about Buzz (except Chicos).
Lo and behold, Buzz leaves for browner pastures and the same thing happens to him -- all of a sudden no one likes him, and they never did! Made me think we should treat coaches like politicians -- praise them when they do well and raise your voice when they do poorly. Don't be a fan of the coach, be a fan of the program.
It's human nature, and the nature of fans.
A guy can date a girl for months, and if she drops him, he's say something like "She was a b*tch anyways". He's trying to save face, and he doesn't want to face the facts.
Some fans get very emotionally wrapped up in the coaches. They often look for, or even project traits onto their favorite coach so they can be in love with him.
"He really gets it! We are so lucky to have him."
People will love MU's coach right up until he decides he wants to be someplace else, then some people will turn on him like a scorned lover.
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Yeah, and you may want to light up on the ole Duke integrity thing. They have a finely crafted public image, but I don't think they have much more integrity than the average high level, D1 athletic program. Special majors for athletes....Lance Thomas....Coach K's volcanic temper...
And your implication that Buzz Williams isn't very smart is pretty inaccurate as well. He may come off as a country bumpkin type, but I also think that is a pretty well crafted image.
Slurp to the bottom.
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Buzz was not "shown the door."
Many ways to show one the door, including blowing a hole in the wall with a hand grenade.
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Slurp to the bottom.
Well, he was smart enough to apparently getting huge contract concessions from Virginia Tech without the use of an agent.
Really, there are a lot of ways you can criticize Buzz Williams. Lack of intelligence isn't one of them.
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Steve Alford. Wake me up when he actually accomplishes something.
Let's see--for a start, nailing down Looney when your idol the Buzzster could not get a sniff out of the batter's box. An there are more.
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one quibble….
For now, Wojciechowski has won. He’s assembled a decorated coaching staff, brought back a legend in Travis Diener and is on the verge of securing the five-star center Williams never could
I assume this is referring to Ellenson……He is not a center…..He could play some center but if he comes to MU he will be primarily a 4/3. Fischer and Heldt will play the 5 the majority of the time.
Buzz has had plenty of 5 star bigs: Otule, Roseboro, Mbao, Durley, Williams, and Gardner. If you add up their stars, it could come to 5.
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Let's see--for a start, nailing down Looney when your idol the Buzzster could not get a sniff out of the batter's box. An there are more.
Steve Alford: 19 years as a head coach...two Sweet 16s.
Buzz Williams: 7 years as a head coach...one Elite 8 and two additional Sweet 16s.
Buzz is a better coach than Alford.
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Tom Izzo was a DII All American for Northern Michigan
Was that for their 6' and Under squad?
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Steve Alford: 19 years as a head coach...two Sweet 16s.
Buzz Williams: 7 years as a head coach...one Elite 8 and two additional Sweet 16s.
Buzz is a better coach than Alford.
I see what you did there. Buzz is a better coach, but your comment was wake you up when Alford has accomplished something.
Alford has accomplished a lot: Indiana Mr. basketball; PG on NCAA Champion; 4 years in NBa; Gold medal Olympian averaging 10.3 ppg; Top 10 player of the 80's; 4 time team MVP; All American; Big 10 Player of the Year; twice won Big 10 Conference tourney; etc. etc.
Hopefully that has woke you up. Because that is what you said. Wake us all up when you accomplish something Sultan.
And by the way, take a poll on which is the better gig--HC at UCLA or Va. Tech.
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Well, he was smart enough to apparently getting huge contract concessions from Virginia Tech without the use of an agent.
Really, there are a lot of ways you can criticize Buzz Williams. Lack of intelligence isn't one of them.
I would submit that his asinine coaching strategy that led to 17-15 speaks volumes. I don't know if he is intelligent--do you?
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I see what you did there. Buzz is a better coach, but your comment was wake you up when Alford has accomplished something.
Alford has accomplished a lot: Indiana Mr. basketball; PG on NCAA Champion; 4 years in NBa; Gold medal Olympian averaging 10.3 ppg; Top 10 player of the 80's; 4 time team MVP; All American; Big 10 Player of the Year; twice won Big 10 Conference tourney; etc. etc.
Hopefully that has woke you up. Because that is what you said. Wake us all up when you accomplish something Sultan.
And by the way, take a poll on which is the better gig--HC at UCLA or Va. Tech.
Since the subject of the thread was obviously coaching, I didn't think that I would have to explain the context of my quote was in regards to his lack of accomplishment as a coach. I now know that I have to explain things in a little greater detail for you to understand. I will try harder next time.
And Buzz Williams reportedly turned down an opportunity to interview at UCLA. If that job would have come open a year later, Buzz may have been coaching there instead of Alford.
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Since the subject of the thread was obviously coaching, I didn't think that I would have to explain the context of my quote was in regards to his lack of accomplishment as a coach. I now know that I have to explain things in a little greater detail for you to understand. I will try harder next time.
And Buzz Williams reportedly turned down an opportunity to interview at UCLA. If that job would have come open a year later, Buzz may have been coaching there instead of Alford.
Pretty big leap there Sultan: turning down an interview means he had the job? C'mon Sultan, even you can do better than that lame logic. I have conducted thousands of interviews, and none had any presumption on my part that the interviewee would get the job. Has that been your experience? Please wake me up to let me know.
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Buzz was not "shown the door."
I'm not so sure--paraphrasing, but this seems like a reasonable chain of events:
Buzz: "I need to approve MU's next AD and President."
MU: "Sorry, that's not happening."
Buzz: "If you don't let me approve them, I'll walk"
MU: "There's the door."
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Pretty big leap there Sultan: turning down an interview means he had the job? C'mon Sultan, even you can do better than that lame logic. I have conducted thousands of interviews, and none had any presumption on my part that the interviewee would get the job. Has that been your experience? Please wake me up to let me know.
I said "may have been coaching there instead of Alford" (emphasis added)
Do you understand the definition of "may?"
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I'm not so sure--paraphrasing, but this seems like a reasonable chain of events:
Buzz: "I need to approve MU's next AD and President."
MU: "Sorry, that's not happening."
Buzz: "If you don't let me approve them, I'll walk"
MU: "There's the door."
If by "reasonable" you mean, "completely off base" then yes....
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I said "may have been coaching there instead of Alford" (emphasis added)
Do you understand the definition of "may?"
Yeah, I understand, but in your world 'may" implies would. But that is OK Sultan, because you can be read like a book. In your world, it is your world view of all the goodness that lies in Buzz's heart and skill set. You have never recognized him for the phony BS'er he is. Instead you justify it with all good coaches have some of that in them, he is a great motivator, and he walks on water.
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Can we add the Sultan-Willie Bromance to the 2015 Meme Tournament watchlist?
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If by "reasonable" you mean, "completely off base" then yes....
No, I think I was pretty clear with what I said--which represents a pretty reasonable summary of the situation.
But by all means, if you know something different, please do share.
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Yeah, I understand, but in your world 'may" implies would.
You are hopeless.
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No, I think I was pretty clear with what I said--which represents a pretty reasonable summary of the situation.
But by all means, if you know something different, please do share.
Buzz didn't want to approve the AD and the President. Buzz wanted limitations placed on the program by SP and LW to be reversed by Cords. They weren't.
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Buzz wanted the freshman to not have to live in regular dorms.
Buzz wanted MU's admission policy to be no more restrictive than the NCAA's, less restrictive than what Pilarz and Larry instituted.
Buzz wanted more latitude in getting JUCO's.
Cords said no.
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Yeah, I understand, but in your world 'may" implies would. But that is OK Sultan, because you can be read like a book. In your world, it is your world view of all the goodness that lies in Buzz's heart and skill set. You have never recognized him for the phony BS'er he is. Instead you justify it with all good coaches have some of that in them, he is a great motivator, and he walks on water.
While he was not a good Xs and Os coach (seen by the absurd amount of buzzer beating losses we had) but it's hard to argue that he wasn't a good motivator I mean I think on motivation alone is why he was able to maximize the abilities of less heralded players.
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Buzz wanted the freshman to not have to live in regular dorms.
Buzz wanted MU's admission policy to be no more restrictive than the NCAA's, less restrictive than what Pilarz and Larry instituted.
Buzz wanted more latitude in getting JUCO's.
Cords said no.
This is all true. But I think there was a little more to it than that. Buzz and the administration simply no longer liked each other. It seems like it had become very adversarial.
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While he was not a good Xs and Os coach (seen by the absurd amount of buzzer beating losses we had)
Disagree with this. The previous 5 years, MU came out ahead in more 1-2 possession games than not. This past season was an outlier.
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Since this thread is supposed to be about Wojo:
Steve Wojciechowski @steve_wojo 1m
Thanks to Marquette great Bo Ellis for having me speak at his golf tournament. Pride & passion of former players is inspiring. #mubb
4:39 PM - 21 Jul 2014
Wisconsin, USA
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Disagree with this. The previous 5 years, MU came out ahead in more 1-2 possession games than not. This past season was an outlier.
Maybe I'm forgetting the buzzer beating wins? But my freshman and sophomore years we lost to: Florida state, DePaul, Villanova twice, West Virginia, Washington and Notre dame that year. We beat SJU and Uconn like that. My sophomore year I don't remember quite as well but I do know we lost to Vanderbilt and Louisville like that.
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Can we add the Sultan-Willie Bromance to the 2015 Meme Tournament watchlist?
No bromance there eagle. He wanted the divorce, I gave it to him and then he started the slamming all over again. He has a huge woody for the smug arrogance he continues to maintain.
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No bromance there eagle. He wanted the divorce, I gave it to him and then he started the slamming all over again. He has a huge woody for the smug arrogance he continues to maintain.
Whatever you want to call it, I think it deserves it's place in Scoop history
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Whatever you want to call it, I think it deserves it's place in Scoop history
Only if you also include Buzz's analysis of Derricks game: He is an elite defender, and a game changer. Said more than once.
And also the fan's daughter, who he said "knew nothing about basketball",.. "Daddy, why isn't anybody guarding number 12?"
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Only if you also include Buzz's analysis of Derricks game: He is an elite defender, and a game changer. Said more than once.
And also the fan's daughter, who he said "knew nothing about basketball",.. "Daddy, why isn't anybody guarding number 12?"
I actually do think "game changing defense" also deserves a place in Scoop lore
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Maybe I'm forgetting the buzzer beating wins? But my freshman and sophomore years we lost to: Florida state, DePaul, Villanova twice, West Virginia, Washington and Notre dame that year. We beat SJU and Uconn like that. My sophomore year I don't remember quite as well but I do know we lost to Vanderbilt and Louisville like that.
We won 3 straight road OT games in 2010. Judging a coach based off of one possession games is a little off base, because there is a lot of luck when it's that close. I loved Buzz's ability to be flexible in previous seasons.
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No bromance there eagle. He wanted the divorce, I gave it to him and then he started the slamming all over again. He has a huge woody for the smug arrogance he continues to maintain.
Why does willie always make penis references?