MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ThatDude on April 22, 2014, 02:43:17 PM
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Projected to transfer to Marquette per Bleacher Reports.
Horrible source I know, but hey what else is going on?
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http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsbyusports/57827240-65/byu-carlino-former-com.html.csp
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We don't want someone who uses Goodman to release information.
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"Carlino shot 38.5 percent in 2013-14"
So, a Jake Thomas that's a ball handler.
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Sports Illustrated lists him as one of the top 10 graduate transfers that is eligible to play next fall.
http://college-basketball.si.com/2014/04/15/eron-harris-sean-obi-ryan-anderson-lead-top-available-transfers/
Matt Carlino, G
Former team: BYU
Carlino is going for the most stamps on his college hoops passport, starting at UCLA before transferring midway through his freshman year to BYU for three seasons. His shot selection has been a running issue – Carlino shot 38.5 percent in 2013-14 – but a veteran point guard who averaged 13.7 points and 4.3 assists and who is instantly eligible will find a good home.
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4 reasons why BYU basketball might be better off without Carlino
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=29317262
By Dylan Cannon, KSL.com Contributor
April 4th, 2014 @ 10:41am
It was announced on Tuesday that BYU basketball point guard, Matt Carlino, would not be returning to the school for his last year of eligibility and would seek to transfer.
Under NCAA rules, Carlino will be able to play immediately at his new school because he will graduate from BYU in June. His transfer ends an up and down basketball career as a Cougar in which Carlino was often electric, frequently erratic and never quite able to live up to the lofty standards left by his predecessor, Jimmer Fredette. Here are four reasons why the BYU basketball program might be better without him.
More playing time for Anson Winder
With the team playing stagnantly and Carlino playing poorly as the starting point guard, Coach Dave Rose decided to shuffle his rotation and gave different players an opportunity to showcase their abilities. One of the players that significantly benefitted from the change was Anson Winder.
In his first two-and-a-half years as a Cougar, Winder was used sparingly. Despite showing flashes of brilliance, he struggled to crack the rotation and rarely played meaningful minutes. When given his opportunity for more consistent playing time, Winder answered. In the ten games Winder played at least 24 minutes, he averaged 12.2 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2 assists per game.
Perhaps more important, however, is how efficiently Winder reached those numbers. In the ten contests, Winder shot an impressive 56.5 percent from the field and 81 percent from the free-throw line while only committing one turnover a game. Although Carlino could be explosive, he was often very careless with the ball and his quality and quantity of shots have been the source of frequent criticism from BYU fans. Given more minutes, Winder’s efficiency and focus on ball security can be a huge benefit to the Cougars while also taking fewer shots away from scoring machine Tyler Haws.
Less hero ball
One of Carlino’s main assets is his competitive drive. He plays hard and wants to win. However, this same drive was one of his biggest enemies. There were many occasions throughout Carlino’s career where it looked like he forgot he had four teammates on the floor and tried to face the opponent single-handedly.
Carlino’s tendency to try to take over the game and play "hero ball" was particularly seen in games where the Cougars were trailing or the game was going down to the wire. In many of these instances, Carlino would recklessly drive to the basket and put up wild shots that had little chance of going in. Or he would take a deep three pointer while fading away rather than running the offense and setting up a better shot. In either case, while basketball is a team sport, it is arguable that Carlino hurt his team in many big situations and it does not seem to be a coincidence that the Cougars lost many close games this season and in Carlino’s other two seasons.
Scholarship freed up
As KSL’s Greg Wrubell notes, prior to Carlino’s decision to transfer, the Cougars had 14 players projected to be on next season’s roster with only 13 scholarships available. With Carlino’s exit, the entire team can be on scholarship and focused on studies and basketball.
Perhaps more importantly, it is almost inevitable that some friction will exist between players on scholarship and walk-ons. Whether real or imagined, players on scholarship are perceived to be entitled and receive preferential treatment and easier access to playing time. With all players (at least theoretically) being in equal circumstances, this point of friction does not exist and the hope is all players will be more content.
A potential cancer?
For his part, Carlino lived without any off-the-court drama as a Cougar. He was also generally positive in his interactions with media members, though he did publicize his dissatisfaction with one of Rose’s decisions to experiment with him as a shooting guard. However, given Carlino's intensity and competitive drive, it was unlikely that he was thrilled with being relegated to the sixth man role after starting for much of his first two seasons.
While Carlino played sporadically in this role, it's plausible that he is seeking a transfer to another school where he can be ‘the man.’ Had he stayed at BYU, his dissatisfaction with his role may have seeped into his play and his interactions with his teammates and coaches. This may have been particularly troubling since he would have been a senior who would be called upon for leadership.
Whether the Cougars will be a better team next year without Carlino is yet to be seen and is probably not measurable. After two transfers, hopefully he will find a spot where he will thrive.
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The kid can play and would be a major contributor next season.
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Don't understand why MU would want him, unless they project Duane as more of two guard. I'd rather role with the youngens and get through the transition. One thing to note is he did shoot 46% from 2 point land his first two years at BYU. Not a great 3 point shooter, but much better that DWill
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Projected to transfer to Marquette per Bleacher Reports.
Horrible source I know, but hey what else is going on?
Where is the link to the article/tweet? Can't find it anywhere.
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Where is the link to the article/tweet? Can't find it anywhere.
I searched too and found nothing
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here u go
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4)
Name: Matt Carlino
Position: 6'2" shooting guard
Previous school: BYU
Remaining years of eligibility: One
2013-14 stats: 13.7 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.7 SPG
Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette
Wouldn't it just be fitting if Steve Wojciechowski landed a scrappy player like Carlino with his first major move as the new head coach at Marquette?
Carlino led BYU in steals in each of the past two years. He led the Cougars in assists during the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons, and this year he finished just five assists behind team-leader Kyle Collinsworth who played nearly 200 more minutes.
He's definitely more of a scorer than Wojo ever was, but he seems like he would be a great fit for what figures to be an extremely young Marquette team.
Before skipping town, Buzz Williams gave the Golden Eagles quite a haul of recruits over the past two signing periods. Their incoming class was rated in the top 20 last year and is back up there this year, as well.
With six of the team's seven leading scorers graduating either this summer or next, Carlino could provide the leadership Marquette needs to get back to the NCAA tournament after this past season's hiatus.
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here u go
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4)
Name: Matt Carlino
Position: 6'2" shooting guard
Previous school: BYU
Remaining years of eligibility: One
2013-14 stats: 13.7 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.7 SPG
Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette
Wouldn't it just be fitting if Steve Wojciechowski landed a scrappy player like Carlino with his first major move as the new head coach at Marquette?
Carlino led BYU in steals in each of the past two years. He led the Cougars in assists during the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons, and this year he finished just five assists behind team-leader Kyle Collinsworth who played nearly 200 more minutes.
He's definitely more of a scorer than Wojo ever was, but he seems like he would be a great fit for what figures to be an extremely young Marquette team.
Before skipping town, Buzz Williams gave the Golden Eagles quite a haul of recruits over the past two signing periods. Their incoming class was rated in the top 20 last year and is back up there this year, as well.
With six of the team's seven leading scorers graduating either this summer or next, Carlino could provide the leadership Marquette needs to get back to the NCAA tournament after this past season's hiatus.
Seems like just a guess cause Carlino reminds the writer of Wojo....ya know, cause white scrappy guards play hard!
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Personally, I would rather use our ships on frontcourt talent as we have 3 PGs on the roster now. Carlino has MU DNA and is a fiery competitor - perhaps the single biggest missing player variable last year. When a game was on the line VB demanded the rock. There was no such player last season so Carlino would add that to the mix.
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Well stated, Keefe. He would be nice addition and welcomed with open arms.
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here u go
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2037513-ideal-landing-spots-for-top-available-transfers-in-the-2014-cbb-offseason/page/4)
Name: Matt Carlino
Position: 6'2" shooting guard
Previous school: BYU
Remaining years of eligibility: One
2013-14 stats: 13.7 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 4.3 APG, 1.7 SPG
Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette
Wouldn't it just be fitting if Steve Wojciechowski landed a scrappy player like Carlino with his first major move as the new head coach at Marquette?
Carlino led BYU in steals in each of the past two years. He led the Cougars in assists during the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons, and this year he finished just five assists behind team-leader Kyle Collinsworth who played nearly 200 more minutes.
He's definitely more of a scorer than Wojo ever was, but he seems like he would be a great fit for what figures to be an extremely young Marquette team.
Before skipping town, Buzz Williams gave the Golden Eagles quite a haul of recruits over the past two signing periods. Their incoming class was rated in the top 20 last year and is back up there this year, as well.
With six of the team's seven leading scorers graduating either this summer or next, Carlino could provide the leadership Marquette needs to get back to the NCAA tournament after this past season's hiatus.
They are not projecting anything, all they are saying is that Marquette would be a good spot for him.
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If we get him do we get to play 5 on 5 again? If so, I'm all in.
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If we get him do we get to play 5 on 5 again? If so, I'm all in.
+100
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Seems like just a guess cause Carlino reminds the writer of Wojo....ya know, cause white scrappy guards play hard!
Aaron Craft was one of the best ever ;D
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It doesn't look like there is a lot of quality available for the upcoming year so I would be fine with Carlino for a year. He provides depth and experience and offers more flexibility for Duane Wilson to slide over to the 2 position. Let's face it, we are going to be playing a lot of small ball next year. I would much rather go this route than throw 3 scholarships on project players.
A great scenario for this upcoming year is to keep Shayok, get Carlino and then grab a project big man that might provide solid production their last 2 years.
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They are not projecting anything, all they are saying is that Marquette would be a good spot for him.
It says right there for you in the article, and it's not even open for interpretation:
"Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette"
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It says right there for you in the article, and it's not even open for interpretation:
"Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette"
I noticed that too.
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It says right there for you in the article, and it's not even open for interpretation:
"Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette"
Yeah, but it's Bleacher Report.
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Yeah, but it's Bleacher Report.
I'm not saying they are right or that they have any inside information, I was just responding to the post that said the article was not projecting he came to Marquette, just saying he would be a good fit at Marquette. Just pointing out that it directly states, "Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette." That, to me at least, is the article projecting him to end up at Marquette.
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Personally dont want him. Dont want a log jam at PG. Would much rather Wojo let Duane and Dawson develop. Also, not a fan of Duane at the 2 either we have Mayo and Jajuan for that.
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Regardless of reporting source, what Marquette lacked last year was a spiritual leader who demanded victory. MU has a long history of that and it was very much missing last season. People dislike the Danny Ainge, Travis Diener, Sam Worthen, Steve Alford, Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan type personalities but they were winners. Carlino comes from the same mold. He has the stuff this team needs.
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Regardless of reporting source, what Marquette lacked last year was a spiritual leader who demanded victory. MU has a long history of that and it was very much missing last season. People dislike the Danny Ainge, Travis Diener, Sam Worthen, Steve Alford, Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan type personalities but they were winners. Carlino comes from the same mold. He has the stuff this team needs.
+1
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Regardless of reporting source, what Marquette lacked last year was a spiritual leader who demanded victory. MU has a long history of that and it was very much missing last season. People dislike the Danny Ainge, Travis Diener, Sam Worthen, Steve Alford, Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan type personalities but they were winners. Carlino comes from the same mold. He has the stuff this team needs.
Only heard of half of those guys, but they all played basketball really well. Derrick Wilson really wants to win, he's just not very good. Tough to be a leader when you stink, unless you were good at one time..
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If we get him do we get to play 5 on 5 again? If so, I'm all in.
Unfortunately, the word on Carlino is that we would be playing 1 on 5. That's three less than last year.
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Personally dont want him. Dont want a log jam at PG. Would much rather Wojo let Duane and Dawson develop. Also, not a fan of Duane at the 2 either we have Mayo and Jajuan for that.
The article says he's a shooting guard so I'm not worried about him stealing Duane/Dawson's minutes. If we're running a 3 guard offense again I think he'd be a great pickup. Only takes up a schollie for 1 year and seems to have some game.
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The article says he's a shooting guard so I'm not worried about him stealing Duane/Dawson's minutes. If we're running a 3 guard offense again I think he'd be a great pickup. Only takes up a schollie for 1 year and seems to have some game.
You must be talking about the Bleacher Report. Any reputable journalist is aware that Carlino is only interested in playing point guard.
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Yeah I was talking about the Bleacher Report, my bad. I honestly know nothing about the guy and went off the fact that the article called him a shooting guard.
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It says right there for you in the article, and it's not even open for interpretation:
"Projected decision: Transfer to Marquette"
Not sure how I missed that, sorry I am brown.
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Personally, I would rather use our ships on frontcourt talent as we have 3 PGs on the roster now. Carlino has MU DNA and is a fiery competitor - perhaps the single biggest missing player variable last year. When a game was on the line VB demanded the rock. There was no such player last season so Carlino would add that to the mix.
I thought we didn't miss VB at all last year and the only issue with the team was DW?
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Regardless of reporting source, what Marquette lacked last year was a spiritual leader who demanded victory. MU has a long history of that and it was very much missing last season. People dislike the Danny Ainge, Travis Diener, Sam Worthen, Steve Alford, Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan type personalities but they were winners. Carlino comes from the same mold. He has the stuff this team needs.
(http://www.ancestor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/native.jpg)
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Personally dont want him. Dont want a log jam at PG. Would much rather Wojo let Duane and Dawson develop. Also, not a fan of Duane at the 2 either we have Mayo and Jajuan for that.
I'm with you.
We need Fs and a C.
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Not that it really matters but Matt is related to former player and has strong ties to Milwaukee. His grandparents are from here and Matt has spent a lot of time here over the years. TC was recruiting him when he was in 8th grade. Matt is fully aware of MU's basketball history and would be a great addition. Three family members played high level D1 ball and he lives basketball.
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Dudes, get real. It's the end of April, therefore, slim pickin's on the high school front. Wojo ain't goin' the JUCO route. This only ties up a schollie for 1 year while Steve gets his sea legs. We're short 3 playas and Goose, keefe, and I ain't got no eligibility left. Don't see a downside.
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I'm with you.
We need Fs and a C.
We need at least one guy who can just flat out hit threes. We were dead last in 3 point percentage in the conference. You can't win consistently unless you've got several guys who are a threat to hit threes. And for all of Jake's shortcomings, he was our best last year and is gone now. Maybe some of our returning guys will improve, but they'll have to improve a ton just to get us to respectable unless we add a guy or two. Mayo has never been a consistent three point shooter and while I think Burton can and will hit his share, his game is creating off the bounce and posting up more than spotting up from beyond the arc.
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Dudes, get real. It's the end of April, therefore, slim pickin's on the high school front. Wojo ain't goin' the JUCO route. This only ties up a schollie for 1 year while Steve gets his sea legs. We're short 3 playas and Goose, keefe, and I ain't got no eligibility left. Don't see a downside.
Exactly.
We need at least one guy who can just flat out hit threes. We were dead last in 3 point percentage in the conference. You can't win consistently unless you've got several guys who are a threat to hit threes. And for all of Jake's shortcomings, he was our best last year and is gone now. Maybe some of our returning guys will improve, but they'll have to improve a ton just to get us to respectable unless we add a guy or two. Mayo has never been a consistent three point shooter and while I think Burton can and will hit his share, his game is creating off the bounce and posting up more than spotting up from beyond the arc.
We did win consistently 2 years ago without being able to hit the 3 point shot with any consistency.
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Dudes, get real. It's the end of April, therefore, slim pickin's on the high school front. Wojo ain't goin' the JUCO route. This only ties up a schollie for 1 year while Steve gets his sea legs. We're short 3 playas and Goose, keefe, and I ain't got no eligibility left. Don't see a downside.
Right. If it doesn't work, he sits on the bench. Or leaves. Who cares?
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You absolutely pick him up if you can. For the first half of the year we only have Burton, Juan, and Steve to play the 4 and 5. That means we'll be playing with 3 (and possibly 4) guards very often. Duane, Dawson, JJ, and Mayo would all still get PT even with Carlino and Derrick in the fold.
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Dudes, get real. It's the end of April, therefore, slim pickin's on the high school front. Wojo ain't goin' the JUCO route. This only ties up a schollie for 1 year while Steve gets his sea legs. We're short 3 playas and Goose, keefe, and I ain't got no eligibility left. Don't see a downside.
+1. A winner who can come in and provide some skill and much needed leadership for one year. I'd welcome him to campus.
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You absolutely pick him up if you can. For the first half of the year we only have Burton, Juan, and Steve to play the 4 and 5. That means we'll be playing with 3 (and possibly 4) guards very often. Duane, Dawson, JJ, and Mayo would all still get PT even with Carlino and Derrick in the fold.
In actuality, until Fischer becomes eligible we only have Taylor to play the 4 and 5. Burton and Juan are 3's.
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Personally dont want him. Dont want a log jam at PG. Would much rather Wojo let Duane and Dawson develop. Also, not a fan of Duane at the 2 either we have Mayo and Jajuan for that.
Maybe they will go with a three guard line up for the lack of size. Speed things up.
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We did win consistently 2 years ago without being able to hit the 3 point shot with any consistency.
We also had a stud shooter in DJO and Crowder who hit big shots, including 3's in clutch situations. I love Burton's offensive potential, but nobody else on the current roster approaches those two guys.
In today's college game, you have to have guys who can take advantage of a shot that is less than 21 feet, because just about every top 50 team has several.
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We also had a stud shooter in DJO and Crowder who hit big shots, including 3's in clutch situations. I love Burton's offensive potential, but nobody else on the current roster approaches those two guys.
In today's college game, you have to have guys who can take advantage of a shot that is less than 21 feet, because just about every top 50 team has several.
Sorry, I meant to say 2 seasons ago not 2 years ago. Back when we played in the Elite Eight with Jamil Wilson as our biggest 3 point threat.
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Jim Boylan was not in that category of leader. The leaders on his team were Butch and Bo. Period. Boylan was very effective and a heady player. Different leaders and different times. A Travis type leader did not exist in those years, nor could he. Lloyd Walton was that type of leader but still not like Travis. Lloyd was a street fighter but he wouldn't be tackling practice dummies.
Regardless of reporting source, what Marquette lacked last year was a spiritual leader who demanded victory. MU has a long history of that and it was very much missing last season. People dislike the Danny Ainge, Travis Diener, Sam Worthen, Steve Alford, Lloyd Walton, Jim Boylan type personalities but they were winners. Carlino comes from the same mold. He has the stuff this team needs.
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Sorry, I meant to say 2 seasons ago not 2 years ago. Back when we played in the Elite Eight with Jamil Wilson as our biggest 3 point threat.
Good luck with that year in and year out. And that team too had guys who hit big shots and threes in clutch situations- Vander hit several in their three NCAA wins that year, Cadougan (against UConn conference opener), etc.
The prior coach who seemed to have an aversion to quality perimeter shooters is gone, let's break his mold and find guys who can flat out stroke it now.
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Jim Boylan was not in that category of leader. The leaders on his team were Butch and Bo. Period. Boylan was very effective and a heady player. Different leaders and different times. A Travis type leader did not exist in those years, nor could he. Lloyd Walton was that type of leader but still not like Travis. Lloyd was a street fighter but he wouldn't be tackling practice dummies.
They each had a different style but all were the QBs for their team. I get your point about Butch and Bo being the scoring leaders of the 77 team but I would argue that Boylan is the man who made the team go. He was a feisty guy who yelled at everyone from Al to Bo to Toone.
A friend of mine was Boylan's PG at UNH and they remain close to this day. My buddy, whose father coached at PC and was the head at Seattle U, said Boylan was the toughest guy he met in basketball.
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condition of his recruitment:
permitted to play point sporting shades.
(http://content7.flixster.com/photo/10/36/20/10362021_gal.jpg)
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Where are all the people who wanted big minutes for Duane/Dawson next season to help develop them?
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Where are all the people who wanted big minutes for Duane/Dawson next season to help develop them?
I'm right here...I haven't seen Carlino play so can't really comment, yet the article linked raises some red flags. For you and other who were so amazed by Derrick's ability to "protect the ball" and not turn it over - Carlino sounds like a nightmare.
Dawson and Duane have plenty of potential, and hope they take the reins next year...but if not them...then yes, I would take Carlino over Derrick.
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I thought we didn't miss VB at all last year and the only issue with the team was DW?
That was never my mantra, Lanta. I said up front we would miss VB. Badly.
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Jim Boylan was an unsung hero and a leader. I would take a JB every year and take my chances.
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Keefe & Goose: I would take Jim Boylan every day of the week too. You just needed to be there to understand where that group was coming from. Remember: Al started Bill Neary because of his toughness and essentially for no other reason. Every one of the guys on that team, save Bernard Toone, was tough as nails. But please, don't engage in revisionist history. Boylan was a heady player. But Rosenberger was tough and Butch was tough and Bo was tough and J Whitehead was tough and Ulice Payne was tough. But they were not the type of team that had a rah-rah type of leader. They were a team of the '70's. There are some great, great stories about the characters on those teams. When it was crunch time, it was Butch and Bo--but if it was Whitehead or Boylan or Rose, that was cool too.
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I'm right here...I haven't seen Carlino play so can't really comment, yet the article linked raises some red flags. For you and other who were so amazed by Derrick's ability to "protect the ball" and not turn it over - Carlino sounds like a nightmare.
Dawson and Duane have plenty of potential, and hope they take the reins next year...but if not them...then yes, I would take Carlino over Derrick.
I won't bother responding to your wildly incorrect statements about my opinions.
I'd rather have Duane/Dawson playing big minutes than bringing Carlino on board.
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+1. A winner who can come in and provide some skill and much needed leadership for one year. I'd welcome him to campus.
How do we know this? Plenty of seniors that aren't leaders...I can think of some on this past MU team this year. As for winner, again....how do we know. He might be, he might not be. If Wojo thinks he is a good fit, team player, fine. If there are reasons not to take him because he doesn't embody the team attitude, etc, then I would say no.
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Rest assured, if Ben Howland was hired, Matt Carlino would not be in the mix. Clearly, then, Wojo was hired so we could get Matt Carlino. ;)
"From the first practice, [Reeves] Nelson's treatment of [Matt] Carlino was a divisive issue. Carlino suffered a concussion during the preseason that caused him to miss the first three games. Nelson ridiculed Carlino for letting the injury sideline him. He told Carlino he didn't belong at UCLA and wasn't any good. He would yell at Carlino to leave the locker room, calling him "concussion boy." When Carlino returned to workouts, Nelson would go out of his way to set a screen on Carlino so he could hit him. Eventually, players say, Carlino dreaded practice. It was of little surprise when he left UCLA midway through the season and transferred to BYU.
"After Carlino left, there was a team meeting at which Howland said he couldn't respect a quitter. "But everyone knew why Matt left," says one player. "He didn't want to keep sitting on the bench, but most of all he didn't want to be around Reeves anymore. That wasn't quitting. That was just smart."
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I won't bother responding to your wildly incorrect statements about my opinions.
I'd rather have Duane/Dawson playing big minutes than bringing Carlino on board.
Carlino will seriously impede the growth of our young backcourt...they need big minutes next year. Pass on Carlino!
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I'm right here...I haven't seen Carlino play so can't really comment, yet the article linked raises some red flags. For you and other who were so amazed by Derrick's ability to "protect the ball" and not turn it over - Carlino sounds like a nightmare.
Dawson and Duane have plenty of potential, and hope they take the reins next year...but if not them...then yes, I would take Carlino over Derrick.
I think most people realize that PG was a problem last year. So we are relying on a substandard starter....a guy who played a bit last year but might have a ceiling....and a top 100 guy who is coming off an injury.
Tying up a scholarship on an experienced PG IMO has little if any downside. Wojo wants to win now. It balances out classes. Makes perfect sense.
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No to Carlino. He is not that good. This would destroy the team chemistry (see Indiana Pacers trade Danny Granger). Got to give Duane/Dawson/Derrick the reigns.
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Agree. Pass.
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Rest assured, if Ben Howland was hired, Matt Carlino would not be in the mix. Clearly, then, Wojo was hired so we could get Matt Carlino. ;)
"From the first practice, [Reeves] Nelson's treatment of [Matt] Carlino was a divisive issue. Carlino suffered a concussion during the preseason that caused him to miss the first three games. Nelson ridiculed Carlino for letting the injury sideline him. He told Carlino he didn't belong at UCLA and wasn't any good. He would yell at Carlino to leave the locker room, calling him "concussion boy." When Carlino returned to workouts, Nelson would go out of his way to set a screen on Carlino so he could hit him. Eventually, players say, Carlino dreaded practice. It was of little surprise when he left UCLA midway through the season and transferred to BYU.
"After Carlino left, there was a team meeting at which Howland said he couldn't respect a quitter. "But everyone knew why Matt left," says one player. "He didn't want to keep sitting on the bench, but most of all he didn't want to be around Reeves anymore. That wasn't quitting. That was just smart."
Sounds similar to Jonathon Martin case.
Makes you wonder what is wrong with coaches when they know this is going on and they do nothing.
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Those who want to pass on Carlino. What are your suggestions for filling the three scholarships for next season? From where I am standing, I'm not seeing to many uncommitted players who would be better.
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Those who want to pass on Carlino. What are your suggestions for filling the three scholarships for next season? From where I am standing, I'm not seeing to many uncommitted players who would be better.
Carlino is a one-year fix at a position where there's a logjam for minutes. One more year to stymie the growth of Duane and John.
I hope Wojo is working his magic and, if not turning over the Juco stones, tapping his ACC HS coaches for hidden gems...and possibly, an overseas player to fill the void.
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Those who want to pass on Carlino. What are your suggestions for filling the three scholarships for next season? From where I am standing, I'm not seeing to many uncommitted players who would be better.
I'd be all in for Carlino if I knew that he wasn't being brought in for the PG spot.
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Keefe & Goose: I would take Jim Boylan every day of the week too. You just needed to be there to understand where that group was coming from. Remember: Al started Bill Neary because of his toughness and essentially for no other reason. Every one of the guys on that team, save Bernard Toone, was tough as nails. But please, don't engage in revisionist history. Boylan was a heady player. But Rosenberger was tough and Butch was tough and Bo was tough and J Whitehead was tough and Ulice Payne was tough. But they were not the type of team that had a rah-rah type of leader. They were a team of the '70's. There are some great, great stories about the characters on those teams. When it was crunch time, it was Butch and Bo--but if it was Whitehead or Boylan or Rose, that was cool too.
My favorite transfer story involves Boylan. He went down to meet with Dean Smith and Smith works him out, is impressed, but also has Phil Ford on his roster. So Dean picks up the phone and calls Al. He asks Al, "Are you still looking for a PG?" When Al affirms Dean tells him, "Well, I have your next PG sitting right here. His name is Jimmy Boylan."
It was a different world back then. Al flew Boylan up to Milwaukee and signed him up. We win a Ship beating Dean Smith with Boylan at the helm. Pure poetry.
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Carlino is a one-year fix at a position where there's a logjam for minutes. One more year to stymie the growth of Duane and John.
I think Wojo is thinking that it is risky to play an unproven sophomore and a freshman and just assume they'll get better.
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That was never my mantra, Lanta. I said up front we would miss VB. Badly.
I know...trying to stir the pot a bit with some others on here...all in good fun.
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Sounds similar to Jonathon Martin case.
What case? Guy had a nervous breakdown and the media decided to blame it on someone. News Flash, NFL players are meatheads.
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My favorite transfer story involves Boylan. He went down to meet with Dean Smith and Smith works him out, is impressed, but also has Phil Ford on his roster. So Dean picks up the phone and calls Al. He asks Al, "Are you still looking for a PG?" When Al affirms Dean tells him, "Well, I have your next PG sitting right here. His name is Jimmy Boylan."
It was a different world back then. Al flew Boylan up to Milwaukee and signed him up. We win a Ship beating Dean Smith with Boylan at the helm. Pure poetry.
Coach K calls Wojo, "Are you still looking for your next PF? When Wojo confirms he flies him up to Milwaukee and signs him up. WE win the ship beating Duke. We can all dream.
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Carlino is a one-year fix at a position where there's a logjam for minutes. One more year to stymie the growth of Duane and John.
I hope Wojo is working his magic and, if not turning over the Juco stones, tapping his ACC HS
coaches for hidden gems...and possibly, an overseas player to fill the void.
Well if Duane/Dawson are better than Carlino than it won't matter. They will play over him. In which case we will have an extra guard. If they are not better, I will take the upgrade at PG and give them another year to develop.
I think if we can't get a big to transfer in (they are few and far between) then we could use as many guards as possible. I think we will see a lot of three and four guard sets.
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I'd be all in for Carlino if I knew that he wasn't being brought in for the PG spot.
I know we all want to believe that Buzz was holding Dawson back and that Duane would have been the starter last season if he was healthy. But we have absolutely no proof of that. For all we know, they could be worse than Derrick. I don't believe that, it's not what I've been hearing, but it is a possibility. I would love a competitive, three point shooting, hard nosed defense PG like Carlino just to make sure that we have at least one quality player at the position.
I don't think CoWojo will be afraid to run three and four guard sets next season. They will all find their way onto the floor next season.
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No to Carlino. He is not that good. This would destroy the team chemistry (see Indiana Pacers trade Danny Granger). Got to give Duane/Dawson/Derrick the reigns.
How do you know this so definitively?
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No to Carlino. He is not that good. This would destroy the team chemistry (see Indiana Pacers trade Danny Granger). Got to give Duane/Dawson/Derrick the reigns.
because it was so good last season?
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My point is we have five guys right now that can play both/either the 1/2: Derrick/Duane/Dawson/JJJ/Todd. They have stuck together through the coaching loss. We don't need another 1/2. We need a 4/5.
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No to Carlino. He is not that good. This would destroy the team chemistry (see Indiana Pacers trade Danny Granger). Got to give Duane/Dawson/Derrick the reigns.
Not advocating for Carlino, but this isn't the right analogy. The Pacers were one of the best teams in the league. We..... are not that.
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My favorite transfer story involves Boylan. He went down to meet with Dean Smith and Smith works him out, is impressed, but also has Phil Ford on his roster. So Dean picks up the phone and calls Al. He asks Al, "Are you still looking for a PG?" When Al affirms Dean tells him, "Well, I have your next PG sitting right here. His name is Jimmy Boylan."
It was a different world back then. Al flew Boylan up to Milwaukee and signed him up. We win a Ship beating Dean Smith with Boylan at the helm. Pure poetry.
Well, that's not exactly true. Boylan was a 1st or 2nd team HS AA who was heavily recruited by NC. But, Boylan followed family roots to Div II Assumption. After 2 years, he realized he needed to be on a bigger stage to further his BB career.
Then went to Dean Smith since he had been recruited by Smith. But Smith/NC did not take transfers from 4 year schools. Then, Smith called Al. Phil Ford had nothing to do with it.
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My point is we have five guys right now that can play both/either the 1/2: Derrick/Duane/Dawson/JJJ/Todd. They have stuck together through the coaching loss. We don't need another 1/2. We need a 4/5.
That's a lot different then writing it "would destroy team chemistry".
I happen to think the 1/2 is quite unsettled. Derrick is no better than a 15 minute guy. Duane has never played college basketball. Dawson did nothing last year to provide any level we could rely on going forward. JJJ was benched for 1/3 of the season. And, Mayo is....well....Mayo.
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I don't think adding a guard who shot 38.5% from the field with questionable shot selection is the answer, IMO.
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Next year's going to be a rebuilding year anyway. Would rather see the youngsters get minutes and lay a foundation for 2015-16. Carlino's nothing more than bandaid and would only further delay their development.
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I'm against adding Carlino for many reason. I don't need to go on about those, as many of them have already been covered in this thread. I'll just point out that the fit doesn't really seem to make sense for him, either. Word from BYU is that the transfer was driven by the fact Dave Rose wouldn't promise his role next year as a guaranteed starter (after getting benched half way through the year). He was probably set for ~25 mpg still though at BYU next year, a team with a similar outlook on next season as Marquette as a likely bubble team (Still have Haws but Mika going away for his mission and Collinsworth tore his ACL late in the season so no guarantee he is back to start the year). I'm not sure how he could rationally think he could be assured as a guaranteed starter or more minutes at Marquette with Duane, Derrick and Dawson here fighting for minutes. Oklahoma State makes much more sense for him-- that's my prediction on where he ends up.
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Don't think this would be a good add for MU.
1. 1 year only
2. younger guys already there at the position
3. not very good
Stats have previously quoted. Eye test (I saw parts or all of a handful of BYU games last year) doesn't pass muster. Some poor forced shots that I saw, and not just in NCAA game where they were getting clobbered.
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"Would prevent the development of the young guys in the backcourt." I'm hoping the players are developing in offseason workouts, in the weight room, and in practice. Games are the fun, easy part. Games are not where players develop. Every single player will develop, regardless of whether they are on the bench or playing 30 minutes/game, if they are coached right in practice. And if they are not, they aren't going to magically develop in a 40 minute game where no player development happens, they just play the game. "But, but, but they need game experience!" That's what Grambling State and 10 of the first 14 regular season games are for. They will get their game experience when they need if, and they will develop in practice. If Carlino can help the team win games this year there is no question you take him. 1 year guy in a year that we have 3 open scholarships? It's an absolute no lose situation.
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Jeff Goodman reporting that Carlino will take an official visit to Marquette in the next couple of weeks, likely May 9th.
In Wojo I trust. If he wants Carlino to fill one of the three remaining 2014 spots then I want Carlino too.
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In Wojo I trust.
The last use of that saying resulted in a case of badly misplaced trust
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"Would prevent the development of the young guys in the backcourt." I'm hoping the players are developing in offseason workouts, in the weight room, and in practice. Games are the fun, easy part. Games are not where players develop. Every single player will develop, regardless of whether they are on the bench or playing 30 minutes/game, if they are coached right in practice. And if they are not, they aren't going to magically develop in a 40 minute game where no player development happens, they just play the game. "But, but, but they need game experience!" That's what Grambling State and 10 of the first 14 regular season games are for. They will get their game experience when they need if, and they will develop in practice. If Carlino can help the team win games this year there is no question you take him. 1 year guy in a year that we have 3 open scholarships? It's an absolute no lose situation.
This is exactly right and is a notion I don't understand. Playing Duane and Dawson more next year doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be better as juniors and seniors.
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There has been team chemistry problems at both of his stops. Highly publicized UCLA scandal and the rumored literal implementation of a "3 passes before a shot rule" (you may have had a similar rule on your middle school team) at BYU in December last year. Could be just a coincidence he was at both schools though, I guess.
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There has been team chemistry problems at both of his stops. Highly publicized UCLA scandal and the rumored literal implementation of a "3 passes before a shot rule" (you may have had a similar rule on your middle school team) at BYU in December last year. Could be just a coincidence he was at both schools though, I guess.
Our chemistry kicked ass last year, so this concern is legitimate. ::)
Overrated. Winning is the only chemistry you need. When you're winning you have great chemistry. When you're losing you have awful chemistry. Just win, baby, win.
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The person who caused the bad team chemistry last year is no longer with the team.
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The person who caused the bad team chemistry last year is no longer with the team.
So then there should've been a player on the team who brought everyone together and said to the rest of the team, "Eff Bert, he's screwing us over, let's win in spite of him." Again, team chemistry is overrated. It's simple, if you're winning you'll have great team chemistry, if not you will have bad chemistry. Nobody is whooping it up while you're loosing, just like nobody's pouting around if you're winning other than maybe the worst players on the team, and they aren't on the court anyways.
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Our chemistry kicked ass last year, so this concern is legitimate. ::)
Overrated. Winning is the only chemistry you need. When you're winning you have great chemistry. When you're losing you have awful chemistry. Just win, baby, win.
Yeah, honestly no way to know for sure how he affects our chemistry until he is here (or if that even matters, I guess) so there is no point arguing this. Let's try something else. I am not sure he improves our offense as much as people think he will. His numbers mostly come from being a volume shooter.
Mighty West Coast Conference rankings:
10th of 12 kpom Ortg of players that used 24+% of their teams possessions
33rd of 39 players in eFG% that played 60+% of minutes
Doesn't exactly speak to being an impact offensive player, especially at a step up in level of competition.
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This is exactly right and is a notion I don't understand. Playing Duane and Dawson more next year doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be better as juniors and seniors.
So gathering game experience doesn't help a player get better - especially if the kid has a high ceiling of potential as Duane is thought to have, and Dawson showed flashes of having last year? Though I know we saw no improvement in Derrick for all of last year, even though he got max minutes - so it doesn't always hold true. Then again if the piece of clay you are working with shoots 43% from the FT line and has made exactly 2, 3pt shots through the end of his junior season as a PG in high major ball....probably not a lot of room for improvement.
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So gathering game experience doesn't help a player get better - especially if the kid has a high ceiling of potential as Duane is thought to have, and Dawson showed flashes of having last year? Though I know we saw no improvement in Derrick for all of last year, even though he got max minutes - so it doesn't always hold true. Then again if the piece of clay you are working with shoots 43% from the FT line and has made exactly 2, 3pt shots through the end of his junior season as a PG in high major ball....probably not a lot of room for improvement.
So you think the 40 minutes of just purely going out and playing basketball develops a player over the 12 hours of player development in practice time every week? For someone who pretends he has a storied basketball playing background, you clearly do not know where/when players develop.
Yes, game experience helps. Again, if Carlino were to take every single minute from Dawson and Duane (he won't), those 2 will have Grambling State and 9 other teams like them before the Big East season to get game experience the next season.
If players are developing because of game experience and not because of what is being done during practice time there is something seriously, seriously wrong with how the program is being run.
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So gathering game experience doesn't help a player get better - especially if the kid has a high ceiling of potential as Duane is thought to have, and Dawson showed flashes of having last year? Though I know we saw no improvement in Derrick for all of last year, even though he got max minutes - so it doesn't always hold true. Then again if the piece of clay you are working with shoots 43% from the FT line and has made exactly 2, 3pt shots through the end of his junior season as a PG in high major ball....probably not a lot of room for improvement.
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make here in this rambling stream of consciousness, but I think most of the work that gets players better happens in the off season...skill development...pick up games...strength and conditioning...practice...
Now of course they do also gain some experience playing in games, but is that experience so great that it is worth sacrificing games that they could win otherwise? Nope.
If Carlino comes here, he is here for one year. Both him and Derrick will be gone after that. Dawson will have two years at point and Duane will have three. And they may actually be better and see more playing time next year anyway.
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The person who caused the bad team chemistry last year is no longer with the team.
That sonuvabitch Jake Thomas!
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LOL! Well played!
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I'm against adding Carlino for many reason. I don't need to go on about those, as many of them have already been covered in this thread. I'll just point out that the fit doesn't really seem to make sense for him, either. Word from BYU is that the transfer was driven by the fact Dave Rose wouldn't promise his role next year as a guaranteed starter (after getting benched half way through the year). He was probably set for ~25 mpg still though at BYU next year, a team with a similar outlook on next season as Marquette as a likely bubble team (Still have Haws but Mika going away for his mission and Collinsworth tore his ACL late in the season so no guarantee he is back to start the year). I'm not sure how he could rationally think he could be assured as a guaranteed starter or more minutes at Marquette with Duane, Derrick and Dawson here fighting for minutes. Oklahoma State makes much more sense for him-- that's my prediction on where he ends up.
Hey! It worked for Gottlieb!
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This is exactly right and is a notion I don't understand. Playing Duane and Dawson more next year doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be better as juniors and seniors.
So, are there many things that are exactly right and that you don't understand?
Sorry, I know what you meant, I just couldn't resist.
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So you think the 40 minutes of just purely going out and playing basketball develops a player over the 12 hours of player development in practice time every week? For someone who pretends he has a storied basketball playing background, you clearly do not know where/when players develop.
Yes, game experience helps. Again, if Carlino were to take every single minute from Dawson and Duane (he won't), those 2 will have Grambling State and 9 other teams like them before the Big East season to get game experience the next season.
If players are developing because of game experience and not because of what is being done during practice time there is something seriously, seriously wrong with how the program is being run.
LOL - Wades...the general content of your posts and basketball acumen is usually well off target. You cannot replicate game experience in practice. Generally practice during the season is comprised of half court shell work, scouting report, implementation of scouting report, out of bounds plays, defensive concepts - as under Buzz the defensive concepts changed game to game based on scouting report. Rarely do teams run 5 on 5 up and down in practice at the college level. There is not a lot of "player development" as you cite during practice during the season. Off season, yes.
So, to answer your question: Playing with the same guys during GAMES helps develop cohesion and efficiency...and better results for the player/team. The best coaches play their 5 best guys together consistently and for long stretches, and have a very distinct substitution pattern...and usually go 8-9 deep max. Everyone knows their role. Knows what to expect. Last year under Buzz...it was a complete crap show...other than for Derrick and Jake...which was the height of comical - giving the most minutes to your two most limited players.
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Spare me the off-season reads.......Please!
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I think most of the work that gets players better happens in the off season...skill development...pick up games...strength and conditioning...
Now of course they do also gain some experience playing in games, but is that experience so great that it is worth sacrificing games that they could win otherwise? Nope.
I can agree that individual improvement for players happens in the statement I bolded above - yet they have to be able to translate that improvement on the court during real games...and nothing is a better benchmark for what a player will be...than how he shows in games.
As for the non-bolded part of your sentence - that position was held by many last year - that playing Dawson or JJJ more could have made things much worse and cost us games. The reality was, it would not have, and both JJJ and Dawson would have gotten valuable experience and been able to help implement the changes they needed to make to their games during the off season to improve in areas of weakness..which they would have learned from playing in games. I definitely feel Dominic, Jerel and Wes getting to play max minutes as freshman helped them go on to have really good careers at MU.
Was just a sad year last year, seeing the team miss the NIT..while having talented freshman largely sitting on the bench for 30+ minutes per game...and not getting ample game experience.
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LOL - Wades...the general content of your posts and basketball acumen is usually well off target. You cannot replicate game experience in practice. Generally practice during the season is comprised of half court shell work, scouting report, implementation of scouting report, out of bounds plays, defensive concepts - as under Buzz the defensive concepts changed game to game based on scouting report. Rarely do teams run 5 on 5 up and down in practice at the college level. There is not a lot of "player development" as you cite during practice during the season. Off season, yes.
So, to answer your question: Playing with the same guys during GAMES helps develop cohesion and efficiency...and better results for the player/team. The best coaches play their 5 best guys together consistently and for long stretches, and have a very distinct substitution pattern...and usually go 8-9 deep max. Everyone knows their role. Knows what to expect. Last year under Buzz...it was a complete crap show...other than for Derrick and Jake...which was the height of comical - giving the most minutes to your two most limited players.
Players develop during practice. They are not altering their shooting form, developing a mid-range game, improving their ball handling, etc. in the middle of games. I'm sorry that you do not understand this, but you do not understand how player development works if you think they do. It's pretty simple. There is no fundamental work done on players during a game. I know many high, high level coaches who will not coach a single word regarding fundamentals or developing skills to players during a game. They want their players to just go out there and play the game and only think about the scouting report, not about fundamentals. Player development is all done in practice and during off season workouts, not during games. Again, sorry you don't understand that, but apparently your decorated high school career didn't teach you that.
I don't know why you are bringing up substitution patterns. Never once did I say anything about Bert's substitution patterns. I was addressing player development. If you need a dumbed down definition, I was addressing when, where, and how a player fundamentally develops individual skills necessary to use on a basketball court. Could the chemistry between key players be better in 2015-2016 if all of the same players play all of the minutes in 2014-2015? Of course it could. But is that worth not taking in a kid who can help the program win games in 2014-2015? Absolutely not. That is what the Grambling State's of the world are for. You get 10 of those opponents before you need really good team chemistry to start the new year/Big East season. Last year's problem was not "team cohesion," it was a lack of fundamentally skill developed players (or, talented basketball players) on the roster. Guys like Duane, Dawson, and JJJ will have plenty of game experience by the time they need it in 2015-2016 even if Carlino comes in and plays 40 minutes/game. If they are talented basketball players, they will have no problem finding chemistry by the conference season. If they aren't talented basketball players, they will never find the chemistry to win games.
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Players develop during practice. They are not altering their shooting form, developing a mid-range game, improving their ball handling, etc. in the middle of games. I'm sorry that you do not understand this, but you do not understand how player development works if you think they do. It's pretty simple. There is no fundamental work done on players during a game. I know many high, high level coaches who will not coach a single word regarding fundamentals or developing skills to players during a game. They want their players to just go out there and play the game and only think about the scouting report, not about fundamentals. Player development is all done in practice and during off season workouts, not during games. Again, sorry you don't understand that, but apparently your decorated high school career didn't teach you that.
I don't know why you are bringing up substitution patterns. Never once did I say anything about Bert's substitution patterns. I was addressing player development. If you need a dumbed down definition, I was addressing when, where, and how a player fundamentally develops individual skills necessary to use on a basketball court. Could the chemistry between key players be better in 2015-2016 if all of the same players play all of the minutes in 2014-2015? Of course it could. But is that worth not taking in a kid who can help the program win games in 2014-2015? Absolutely not. That is what the Grambling State's of the world are for. You get 10 of those opponents before you need really good team chemistry to start the new year/Big East season. Last year's problem was not "team cohesion," it was a lack of fundamentally skill developed players (or, talented basketball players) on the roster. Guys like Duane, Dawson, and JJJ will have plenty of game experience by the time they need it in 2015-2016 even if Carlino comes in and plays 40 minutes/game. If they are talented basketball players, they will have no problem finding chemistry by the conference season. If they aren't talented basketball players, they will never find the chemistry to win games.
Guys that get scholarships at the high major D-1 level, generally have developed the basic fundamentals to be a good basketball player. Of course coaches don't say during games, hey Derrick - why don't you try keeping your elbow in on your jumper in the middle of a game. Player development generally takes place in the off season..not during the season as I listed why above.
The original point I commented on was the point of Sultan's that playing Duane or Dawson more next year doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be better as juniors or seniors. I simply disagree - the more on court, game experience they get together as a team/unit (add JJJ and Burton to Duane and Dawson) the better they are going to be in subsequent years...because they all possess a lot of talent and have the necessary skill to play the game at a high level...and the cohesion you get through playing together has a compound interest type of return... If you feel guys only get good through practice during the regular season (or off season), and that game experience doesn't count for jack...not sure what to tell you other than that is idiotic.
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Players develop during practice. They are not altering their shooting form, developing a mid-range game, improving their ball handling, etc. in the middle of games. I'm sorry that you do not understand this, but you do not understand how player development works if you think they do. It's pretty simple. There is no fundamental work done on players during a game. I know many high, high level coaches who will not coach a single word regarding fundamentals or developing skills to players during a game. They want their players to just go out there and play the game and only think about the scouting report, not about fundamentals. Player development is all done in practice and during off season workouts, not during games. Again, sorry you don't understand that, but apparently your decorated high school career didn't teach you that.
I don't know why you are bringing up substitution patterns. Never once did I say anything about Bert's substitution patterns. I was addressing player development. If you need a dumbed down definition, I was addressing when, where, and how a player fundamentally develops individual skills necessary to use on a basketball court. Could the chemistry between key players be better in 2015-2016 if all of the same players play all of the minutes in 2014-2015? Of course it could. But is that worth not taking in a kid who can help the program win games in 2014-2015? Absolutely not. That is what the Grambling State's of the world are for. You get 10 of those opponents before you need really good team chemistry to start the new year/Big East season. Last year's problem was not "team cohesion," it was a lack of fundamentally skill developed players (or, talented basketball players) on the roster. Guys like Duane, Dawson, and JJJ will have plenty of game experience by the time they need it in 2015-2016 even if Carlino comes in and plays 40 minutes/game. If they are talented basketball players, they will have no problem finding chemistry by the conference season. If they aren't talented basketball players, they will never find the chemistry to win games.
So what do you make of players who are amazing during practice and have apparently developed but are brutal during games. I'm not really taking sides on this as I think it's a combination of both development during practice and game experience that molds the player. There is no substitute in my mind for game like situations and things that happen during games that you just can't simulate in practice. There are tons of examples.
But I've come across many players in multiple sports who were rest during practice and looked like an all star and oupdnt hack it when the lights came
On.
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The answer, as it usually is when two people on this board are arguing, is that you are both right.
Wades is correct that fundamentals, basketball skills, and physical fitness are developed during practice, not games. This includes both off season and during season practices. Mostly during the offseason.
Ners is correct that certain aspects of the game cannot be developed in practice. Performing under pressure, team chemistry, basketball IQ, and other essential traits are developed during games. He is partially correct about during season practices. They do development during these practices but most of the practice is focused on how they are going to play their next opponent.
Personally, I am of the opinion that you have to earn it in practice before you get the right to play in a game. To do the opposite often leads to ultra talented losing teams like Saint John's. You can even have meltdowns like what happened to Howland at UCLA.
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Getting back to the topic of Matt Carlino. Anyone hear if he and CoWojo have met yet?
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So what do you make of players who are amazing during practice and have apparently developed but are brutal during games. I'm not really taking sides on this as I think it's a combination of both development during practice and game experience that molds the player. There is no substitute in my mind for game like situations and things that happen during games that you just can't simulate in practice. There are tons of examples.
But I've come across many players in multiple sports who were rest during practice and looked like an all star and oupdnt hack it when the lights came
On.
Again, yes, game experience is worth something. Which is why you schedule cupcakes early in the season. The Grambling State's of the world. We get 10 of those in our first 14 games. That is plenty of time to develop cohesion as a team by the time it is needed (the conference season). If players can't get comfortable in games by those 10 cupcake games, then maybe they just aren't that good of a player and need to find the bench.
Guys that get scholarships at the high major D-1 level, generally have developed the basic fundamentals to be a good basketball player. Of course coaches don't say during games, hey Derrick - why don't you try keeping your elbow in on your jumper in the middle of a game. Player development generally takes place in the off season..not during the season as I listed why above.
The original point I commented on was the point of Sultan's that playing Duane or Dawson more next year doesn't necessarily mean they are going to be better as juniors or seniors. I simply disagree - the more on court, game experience they get together as a team/unit (add JJJ and Burton to Duane and Dawson) the better they are going to be in subsequent years...because they all possess a lot of talent and have the necessary skill to play the game at a high level...and the cohesion you get through playing together has a compound interest type of return... If you feel guys only get good through practice during the regular season (or off season), and that game experience doesn't count for jack...not sure what to tell you other than that is idiotic.
Again, see above. I have addressed the game experience above. If game experience is where players do all their growing and is absolutely necessary to a player's development, how do you explain the Frank Kaminsky's of the world? You know, the guy who went from 2 ppg, 1.4 rpg in 8 mpg as a freshman and 4 ppg, 1.8 rpg in 10 mpg and then jumped to 14 ppg, 6.3 rpg in 28 mpg last season? Did UW-Madison play in some NCAA summer season (kind of like a summer and a spring baseball season for high school?) that Marquette was not invited to, and he played 40 mpg there to develop into the player he did? What about Thomas Robinson? 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg in 7 mpg as a freshman and 7.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg in 14.6 mpg as a sophomore to 18 ppg, 12 rpg in 32 mpg as a junior. Again, some secret NCAA season nobody knows about where he got 40 mpg to develop as a player? There are millions of examples like this. How do we explain that? They can't develop from 1 season to another without their 40 mpg.
In fact, let's just fold our program for the next 3 years, everyone on the roster is stunting Flory's development as a player. Let's add a demand to the demand thread that every 4 years we sign 13 new scholarship players only in the late signing period after or season has ended. That way no upperclassmen are stunting the development of the underclassmen. Otherwise we have to cut anybody in front of a freshman. If only Bert would've played Mbao 40 mpg he would've been Embiid before there was an Embiid!
Silly.
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Getting back to the topic of Matt Carlino. Anyone hear if he and CoWojo have met yet?
Goodman says he's visiting soon
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how do you explain the Frank Kaminsky's of the world? You know, the guy who went from 2 ppg, 1.4 rpg in 8 mpg as a freshman and 4 ppg, 1.8 rpg in 10 mpg and then jumped to 14 ppg, 6.3 rpg in 28 mpg last season?
Silly.
that looks to me like Kaminsky just got more mpg but didn't actually increase his scoring per minute played much
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Again, yes, game experience is worth something. Which is why you schedule cupcakes early in the season. The Grambling State's of the world. We get 10 of those in our first 14 games. That is plenty of time to develop cohesion as a team by the time it is needed (the conference season). If players can't get comfortable in games by those 10 cupcake games, then maybe they just aren't that good of a player and need to find the bench.
Again, see above. I have addressed the game experience above. If game experience is where players do all their growing and is absolutely necessary to a player's development, how do you explain the Frank Kaminsky's of the world? You know, the guy who went from 2 ppg, 1.4 rpg in 8 mpg as a freshman and 4 ppg, 1.8 rpg in 10 mpg and then jumped to 14 ppg, 6.3 rpg in 28 mpg last season? Did UW-Madison play in some NCAA summer season (kind of like a summer and a spring baseball season for high school?) that Marquette was not invited to, and he played 40 mpg there to develop into the player he did? What about Thomas Robinson? 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg in 7 mpg as a freshman and 7.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg in 14.6 mpg as a sophomore to 18 ppg, 12 rpg in 32 mpg as a junior. Again, some secret NCAA season nobody knows about where he got 40 mpg to develop as a player? There are millions of examples like this. How do we explain that? They can't develop from 1 season to another without their 40 mpg.
In fact, let's just fold our program for the next 3 years, everyone on the roster is stunting Flory's development as a player. Let's add a demand to the demand thread that every 4 years we sign 13 new scholarship players only in the late signing period after or season has ended. That way no upperclassmen are stunting the development of the underclassmen. Otherwise we have to cut anybody in front of a freshman. If only Bert would've played Mbao 40 mpg he would've been Embiid before there was an Embiid!
Silly.
Where we disagree is how much development work takes place in practice during the season...very little individual work is done. Of course players should improve over their time in a program...as in Kaminsky...through all off season work, including strength and conditioning, beyond just basketball skill work.
Most guys get better as they become upperclassmen....last year we saw ZERO improvement from Derrick all year long, and Jake showed very little. Meanwhile, you have freshman behind them - Dawson and JJJ - who have far more upside and are way more of the future of the program than were Derrick, Jake...or now in the case of Carlino. Sure, you can bring Carlino in for a year....and if he is a significant upgrade over where Dawson and Duane are currently...fine...but in the big picture...him as a 1-year rental...in my view if he were to get a majority of PT at PG over Duane and John...would stunt their growth...and where program could be in 2015-2106, 2016-2017.
You simply cannot replicate the value of game experience in any sport, particularly basketball and football. I'd just rather give that experience to John and Duane than a guy like Carlino who is a 1 year player, and comes with some warts. Not to mention the frustration it may cause for John and Duane if they potentially have to ride bench for another year....when they CHOSE to return to MU versus transfer as they easily could have done.
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that looks to me like Kaminsky just got more mpg but didn't actually increase his scoring per minute played much
2 points/game in 8 minutes is .25 ppm.
14 points in 28 minues is .5 ppm.
What looks to you like not actually increasing his scoring per minute is actually a 100% increase in scoring per minute.
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didn't read the whole thread, but the article in WSJ on Kaminsky made it pretty clear that he did all his improving on his time in the offseason. Not in practice.
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Where we disagree is how much development work takes place in practice during the season...very little individual work is done. Of course players should improve over their time in a program...as in Kaminsky...through all off season work, including strength and conditioning, beyond just basketball skill work.
Most guys get better as they become upperclassmen....last year we saw ZERO improvement from Derrick all year long, and Jake showed very little. Meanwhile, you have freshman behind them - Dawson and JJJ - who have far more upside and are way more of the future of the program than were Derrick, Jake...or now in the case of Carlino. Sure, you can bring Carlino in for a year....and if he is a significant upgrade over where Dawson and Duane are currently...fine...but in the big picture...him as a 1-year rental...in my view if he were to get a majority of PT at PG over Duane and John...would stunt their growth...and where program could be in 2015-2106, 2016-2017.
You simply cannot replicate the value of game experience in any sport, particularly basketball and football. I'd just rather give that experience to John and Duane than a guy like Carlino who is a 1 year player, and comes with some warts. Not to mention the frustration it may cause for John and Duane if they potentially have to ride bench for another year....when they CHOSE to return to MU versus transfer as they easily could have done.
I think this isn't because these guys can't develop, but a result of their coaching. I just don't think Buzz made player development a priority. His players either came in with a high-level of skills (JUCOs, Blue), or they came and left quickly.
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"Would prevent the development of the young guys in the backcourt." I'm hoping the players are developing in offseason workouts, in the weight room, and in practice. Games are the fun, easy part. Games are not where players develop. Every single player will develop, regardless of whether they are on the bench or playing 30 minutes/game, if they are coached right in practice. And if they are not, they aren't going to magically develop in a 40 minute game where no player development happens, they just play the game. "But, but, but they need game experience!" That's what Grambling State and 10 of the first 14 regular season games are for. They will get their game experience when they need if, and they will develop in practice. If Carlino can help the team win games this year there is no question you take him. 1 year guy in a year that we have 3 open scholarships? It's an absolute no lose situation.
As I said when I originally chimed in on the subject, yes, off season and in the weight room (more off season work), along with practice, are where players develop.
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2 points/game in 8 minutes is .25 ppm.
14 points in 28 minues is .5 ppm.
What looks to you like not actually increasing his scoring per minute is actually a 100% increase in scoring per minute.
I guess that's my fault by not posting specifically his soph and junior seasons ::)
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Most guys get better as they become upperclassmen....last year we saw ZERO improvement from Derrick all year long, and Jake showed very little. Meanwhile, you have freshman behind them - Dawson and JJJ - who have far more upside and are way more of the future of the program than were Derrick, Jake...or now in the case of Carlino. Sure, you can bring Carlino in for a year....and if he is a significant upgrade over where Dawson and Duane are currently...fine...but in the big picture...him as a 1-year rental...in my view if he were to get a majority of PT at PG over Duane and John...would stunt their growth...and where program could be in 2015-2106, 2016-2017.
First, If you didn't see improvement in Derrick and Jake, I don't know what to tell you. They were much better at the end of the season than they were at the beginning of the season.
Second, I think this is where the Kaminsky example comes in handy. He got almost no playing time as a freshman or sophomore, yet he was all conference his junior year. Despite him not having playing time, he still developed just fine. Why couldn't Duane and Dawson do that behind Carlino next season? Not saying that playing time doesn't help, but it's not like lack of playing time kills their potential.
Third, I'm not willing to sacrifice next season on the off chance that it will "stunt" Duane's and Dawson's development. You yourself said that Carlino would get a majority of the minutes next season. I assume that means that you view him as a superior PG to Derrick, Duane, and Dawson RIGHT NOW. So why wouldn't we want to improve the position that was our weakest last year? He can get the brunt of the minutes at the 1, the others will still get time behind him and will develop. Will they develop more if they get all the minutes and Carlino doesn't come? Probably. Is that worth not having a superior player at PG next season? I would say no.
Fourth, we are going to be tiny next season. CoWojo will most likely run three and four guard sets. Even if Carlino comes, I bet we would see plenty of the other guards.
Fifth, would your opinion change on Carlino if you found out that CoWojo was going to start Derrick over Duane/Dawson? I know you think that with a new coach that Derrick will be relegated to the bench but we don't know that for sure. A lot of coaches value experience and defense.
Bottom line, we have three open scholarships for next season. Pickings are real slim. If Wojo can land a talented, 3P shooting PG with high major experience, I think we take him.
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I know you all are high on Carlino but Id much rather have Duane and Dawson handle the point. Also for those who say Duane is going to play the 2 I was just standing next to him and no way is he 6'3" hes 6'1" at the absolute most.
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I know you all are high on Carlino but Id much rather have Duane and Dawson handle the point. Also for those who say Duane is going to play the 2 I was just standing next to him and no way is he 6'3" hes 6'1" at the absolute most.
I'm 6'2" and I was slightly taller than Duane. 6'1" sounds about right.
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First, If you didn't see improvement in Derrick and Jake, I don't know what to tell you. They were much better at the end of the season than they were at the beginning of the season.
Second, I think this is where the Kaminsky example comes in handy. He got almost no playing time as a freshman or sophomore, yet he was all conference his junior year. Despite him not having playing time, he still developed just fine. Why couldn't Duane and Dawson do that behind Carlino next season? Not saying that playing time doesn't help, but it's not like lack of playing time kills their potential.
Third, I'm not willing to sacrifice next season on the off chance that it will "stunt" Duane's and Dawson's development. You yourself said that Carlino would get a majority of the minutes next season. I assume that means that you view him as a superior PG to Derrick, Duane, and Dawson RIGHT NOW. So why wouldn't we want to improve the position that was our weakest last year? He can get the brunt of the minutes at the 1, the others will still get time behind him and will develop. Will they develop more if they get all the minutes and Carlino doesn't come? Probably. Is that worth not having a superior player at PG next season? I would say no.
Fourth, we are going to be tiny next season. CoWojo will most likely run three and four guard sets. Even if Carlino comes, I bet we would see plenty of the other guards.
Fifth, would your opinion change on Carlino if you found out that CoWojo was going to start Derrick over Duane/Dawson? I know you think that with a new coach that Derrick will be relegated to the bench but we don't know that for sure. A lot of coaches value experience and defense.
Bottom line, we have three open scholarships for next season. Pickings are real slim. If Wojo can land a talented, 3P shooting PG with high major experience, I think we take him.
Let's get a few things straight:
1) I said Derrick showed ZERO improvement..and Jake showed very little. Derrick finished the season atrociously, and his stats didn't improve a lick during conference play in 2014 than what they were in non conference play in 2013. Do you really want to pull stats from Derrick's last 10 games and try to show how he was "much better at the end of the season?" And as for Jake..he improved slightly...though I'd argue it was still, very little. Was he scoring off the bounce at the end of the year? More 2 pt FGs at the end of the year?
2) I never said that Carlino would get a majority of the minutes next year...I said IF he did..it would stunt Dawson and Duane's growth.
3) You cite Kaminsky - that's great...players should improve in the offseason...a lot..and as they get older....yet you argued all season long that Derrick was a solid PG, improving, and not the primary cause for the teams struggles...Derrick didn't improve/blossom as a junior..he's had 3 years in the program..if he hasn't been able to become better than a 7% 3pt shooter, or 43% 3 pt shooter..with ALL that practice time....AND game time...he probably isn't going to make a drastic improvement as a senior.
4) I personally don't think Carlino is a better PG/player than what Duane/John would be next year...but if he comes...it should be an interesting competition. Just don't think it is a wise move on Wojo's part to bring a guy in for 1 year, when two kids at the same position just committed to stay with the program/you as the head coach..only to see a 4th PG brought into the mix. Kids want to play..and play lots of minutes. Duane will be chomping at the bit, as will Dawson.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN
Per Goodman, Carlino to make visit to MU in few weeks.
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Pretty sure Matt would come here if Wojo wanted him. Would have to think that Wojo knows better than us on what we need next year.
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Let's get a few things straight:
1) I said Derrick showed ZERO improvement..and Jake showed very little. Derrick finished the season atrociously, and his stats didn't improve a lick during conference play in 2014 than what they were in non conference play in 2013. Do you really want to pull stats from Derrick's last 10 games and try to show how he was "much better at the end of the season?"
Ners, you are letting your blind hate frustration for Derrick cloud you. You want stats? Here you go.
Derrick Wilson first 16 games: 4.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.3 tpg
Derrick Wilson last 16 games: 5.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.7 tpg
His ppg went up almost an entire point, same with his assists, and his steals went up over a half a spg! His rebounds and turnovers lessened slightly but that's negligible to the improvement. The turnovers also make sense because he was being more aggressive in the second half.
Not only did his numbers improve, but they improved despite tougher competition.
Average RPI of teams from the first 16 games: 152 (Depaul's RPI is 151 for perspective)
Average RPI of teams from the last 16 games: 72.1
So did Derrick become a stud as the season went on? No. Did he improve? Abso-frickin-lutely. So drop the hyperbole and try to see things from an objective stand point.
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Ners, you are letting your blind hate frustration for Derrick cloud you. You want stats? Here you go.
Derrick Wilson first 16 games: 4.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.3 tpg
Derrick Wilson last 16 games: 5.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.7 tpg
His ppg went up almost an entire point, same with his assists, and his steals went up over a half a spg! His rebounds and turnovers lessened slightly but that's negligible to the improvement. The turnovers also make sense because he was being more aggressive in the second half.
Not only did his numbers improve, but they improved despite tougher competition.
Average RPI of teams from the first 16 games: 152 (Depaul's RPI is 151 for perspective)
Average RPI of teams from the last 16 games: 72.1
So did Derrick become a stud as the season went on? No. Did he improve? Abso-frickin-lutely. So drop the hyperbole and try to see things from an objective stand point.
Sure, he "improved". But teams increasingly did not bother guarding him. So, his teammates became less effective and they did not improve. A Catch-22 here.
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I can agree that individual improvement for players happens in the statement I bolded above - yet they have to be able to translate that improvement on the court during real games...and nothing is a better benchmark for what a player will be...than how he shows in games.
As for the non-bolded part of your sentence - that position was held by many last year - that playing Dawson or JJJ more could have made things much worse and cost us games. The reality was, it would not have, and both JJJ and Dawson would have gotten valuable experience and been able to help implement the changes they needed to make to their games during the off season to improve in areas of weakness..which they would have learned from playing in games. I definitely feel Dominic, Jerel and Wes getting to play max minutes as freshman helped them go on to have really good careers at MU.
I think that if Dominic, Jerel and Wes wouldn't have played as freshmen, they would have still largely been the same players as they turned out to be by the time they were seniors.
I also think not playing much last year will not have much lasting impact on Dawson and JJJ.
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Sure, he "improved". But teams increasingly did not bother guarding him. So, his teammates became less effective and they did not improve. A Catch-22 here.
And how are you going to prove this?
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And how are you going to prove this?
Not a Derrick hater but just look at game film and how much the defenders sagged off of him and use his defender to go help on Todd, Davante and Jamil
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Not a Derrick hater but just look at game film and how much the defenders sagged off of him and use his defender to go help on Todd, Davante and Jamil
No. How is he going to prove that his teammates became less effective. Surely there is statistical proof of that.
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And how are you going to prove this?
Well, all you have to do is rewatch the games on your DVR and watch teams sagging into the lane while Derrick is running around unimpeded. Rather obvious that opponents were playing 5 on 4 defense. Now, was that his fault or did Buzz not give him the green light to shoot? Derrick needs to shoot to loosen things up (and, gain confidence in his shot)...?
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Well, all you have to do is rewatch the games on your DVR and watch teams sagging into the lane while Derrick is running around unimpeded. Rather obvious that opponents were playing 5 on 4 defense. Now, was that his fault or did Buzz not give him the green light to shoot? Derrick needs to shoot to loosen things up (and, gain confidence in his shot)...?
Not sure if asking a bad shooter to take more shots would've loosened up the defense much at all. We probably would've lost a couple more games if Derrick starting launching many more shots.
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Well, all you have to do is rewatch the games on your DVR and watch teams sagging into the lane while Derrick is running around unimpeded. Rather obvious that opponents were playing 5 on 4 defense. Now, was that his fault or did Buzz not give him the green light to shoot? Derrick needs to shoot to loosen things up (and, gain confidence in his shot)...?
Oh.
So you have no real evidence for your assertion. TAMU Eagle provided statistical evidence that Derrick improved. You said that he improved but he made his teammates less effective in the process. I would expect that you would at least meet the statistical standards that TAMU used to prove him wrong...you know...besides the eye ball test.
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2) I never said that Carlino would get a majority of the minutes next year...I said IF he did..it would stunt Dawson and Duane's growth.
My apologies for misreading. I still don't think it would stunt their growth that much. Players develop, even if they aren't getting game time. If you don't sign a player who could help because it might stunt a player's growth, that sets an unrealistic standard. Obviously Wades example of signing 13 new players ever season so they don't get in the way of each other's development is ridiculous, but where do you draw the line? Diamond Stone will probably be a one and done. Should we not sign him because it might stunt Luke Fischer's growth? Luke will be here longer so long term it would be better for the program if he got as many minutes as possible. Planning for the future is great but you need to play the current season. I'm not sacrificing making my team better just because it MIGHT stunt the growth of two talented underclassmen.
Let's get a few things straight:
3) You cite Kaminsky - that's great...players should improve in the offseason...a lot..and as they get older....yet you argued all season long that Derrick was a solid PG, improving, and not the primary cause for the teams struggles...Derrick didn't improve/blossom as a junior..he's had 3 years in the program..if he hasn't been able to become better than a 7% 3pt shooter, or 43% 3 pt shooter..with ALL that practice time....AND game time...he probably isn't going to make a drastic improvement as a senior.
Expect Derrick did improve. Drastically.
JR Season: 5.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg, .391 FG
SO Season: 1.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.7 spg, .273 FG
Again, did he become a world beater? No. Did he get better? Yes. And before you say he's the same he just got more minutes, check again. The per 40s are better his junior season. You can say Derrick is not a good player. But stop trying to make it seem like he has never improved, it's simply not true. And we can argue til the cows come home about what the primary cause of last season's struggles were, but that is a different conversation from this one. What I will say is that Derrick performed exactly as expected him to in the preseason. Other players did not. Some of that was on them, some was injury/transfer, and a lot was on Buzz.
Anyway, back to the original point of the Kaminsky example. All I was trying to show is that players can develop despite limited playing time. I'm sensing a lot of fear about Carlino from several posters. That if he plays Dawson/Duane will wither on the bench. Even if they only get 10 minutes per game next season, they will still develop. Playing time isn't the end all be all.
4) I personally don't think Carlino is a better PG/player than what Duane/John would be next year...but if he comes...it should be an interesting competition. Just don't think it is a wise move on Wojo's part to bring a guy in for 1 year, when two kids at the same position just committed to stay with the program/you as the head coach..only to see a 4th PG brought into the mix. Kids want to play..and play lots of minutes. Duane will be chomping at the bit, as will Dawson.
This is a more logical reason. You don't think he's good enough to supplant John/Duane. That makes more sense than John/Duane will stop developing. Personally, I don't know who is better. Dawson was ok last season and Duane hasn't played a second of college ball. Either could turn out to be an absolute stud....or an absolute dud. I already know Carlino is a pretty good PG. So I'd be happy bringing him in case Duane/Dawson aren't ready.
The way I see it, either Carlino is worse than Duane/Dawson/Derrick which means we have another backup guard, more depth, and it means that one of the three Ds are playing pretty damn well. Or Carlino is better than the three Ds and we get an instant upgrade at PG. It seems like a win win.
And my questions still stand: 1) If you found out that Derrick was going to be the starter next season, would you be clamoring for Carlino? 2) We have three open scholarships, Carlino is one of the best available players, what other three players are out there that would be a better pickup for us?
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Sure, he "improved". But teams increasingly did not bother guarding him. So, his teammates became less effective and they did not improve. A Catch-22 here.
1) Proof?
2) Mattyv, could you hook us up with some ortg analysis?
3) How did his steals going up have anything to do with defenders not guarding him?
4) His assists went up, which means he was putting his teammates in a position to score more often
5) Rewatch your DVRs, the sagging of Derrick started during the Ohio State game
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No. How is he going to prove that his teammates became less effective. Surely there is statistical proof of that.
Here we go with the Sultan still defending Derrick and his boy Buzz. Look at games--Derrick's defender did not guard him, clogging the muddle and making Gardner less effective. This caused Gardner having to come outside for the ball, where he is less effective. It is not rocket science--but to the Buzz/Derrick slurper with the blinders still on, it is not at all evident. Sultan: Take your blind loyalty, along with Derrick to VT, where you can join the other Buzz slurpers.
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Here we go with the Sultan still defending Derrick and his boy Buzz. Look at games--Derrick's defender did not guard him, clogging the muddle and making Gardner less effective. This caused Gardner having to come outside for the ball, where he is less effective. It is not rocket science--but to the Buzz/Derrick slurper with the blinders still on, it is not at all evident. Sultan: Take your blind loyalty, along with Derrick to VT, where you can join the other Buzz slurpers.
Yet Derrick's ORTG was higher than Dawson's. Meaning that the team as a whole performed better with Derrick in the game than it did with Dawson. Unless there was another PG hiding somewhere, he was the best we had.
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TAMU, I agree with you. But even if Mattyv reposts his ortg% showing that the team was more efficient with Derrick running the team vs. Dawson running the team, Ners will discount them because they can't be taken seriously because Dawson didn't get enough stretches of long, uninterrupted play. In other words, if it doesn't back up Ners point, it doesn't count.
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TAMU, I agree with you. But even if Mattyv reposts his ortg% showing that the team was more efficient with Derrick running the team vs. Dawson running the team, Ners will discount them because they can't be taken seriously because Dawson didn't get enough stretches of long, uninterrupted play. In other words, if it doesn't back up Ners point, it doesn't count.
Fact.
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And how are you going to prove this?
Badges? Badges! We don't need no stinking badges!
(http://www.screeninsults.com/images/the-treasure-of-the-sierra-madre-stinking-badges.jpg)
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I thought this thread was about Matt Carlino, not another dick measuring contest.
For the record, none of you win. Ever.
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I thought this thread was about Matt Carlino, not another dick measuring contest.
For the record, none of you win. Ever.
+1 and AMEN!!
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In fact, allow me to help you guys reach a compromise.
Derrick Wilson got better as the year progressed, but he was still terrible.
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I thought this thread was about Matt Carlino, not another dick measuring contest.
For the record, none of you win. Ever.
To scale
8==============================D
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To scale
8==============================D
Each = represents an inch right?
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Expect Derrick did improve. Drastically.
JR Season: 5.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.3 spg
SO Season: 1.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.7 spg
Please provide the same stats based on minutes played per game in both seasons. I think that would be more of an indication if there was a "drastic" improvement. Personally, stats can tell you one thing, but what you provide to an offense, and cohesiveness of a unit isn't proven through stats.
Derrick is a great kid, and he was only doing what his coaches were asking him to do. However, he was asked to run a team and he had too many deficiencies to lead us to success on a consistent basis. He is a "good" backup point guard at the major division one level.
GO MU!
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Why discount stats and say we need "per minute" stats? If a player wasn't good enough to see minutes one season and was the next, doesn't that in and of itself prove there was improvement made? See Frank Kaminsky. His per minute stats would suggest that the improvements he made from his sophomore to junior seasons weren't a big improvements. Does anybody actually believe he didn't improve that much?
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Why discount stats and say we need "per minute" stats? If a player wasn't good enough to see minutes one season and was the next, doesn't that in and of itself prove there was improvement made? See Frank Kaminsky. His per minute stats would suggest that the improvements he made from his sophomore to junior seasons weren't a big improvements. Does anybody actually believe he didn't improve that much?
What? So whoever fills in the Michigan front court next year (McGary, Horford, J. Morgan all leaving) made "the big jump" because they are going from 0-5 mpg to 30 mpg automatically? There's no way that Cadougan graduating and Duane's injury had any impact on the increase of Wilson's minutes last year, right?
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What? So whoever fills in the Michigan front court next year (McGary, Horford, J. Morgan all leaving) made "the big jump" because they are going from 0-5 mpg to 30 mpg automatically? There's no way that Cadougan graduating and Duane's injury had any impact on the increase of Wilson's minutes last year, right?
The real question is: did those occurrences have any impact on Frank Kaminsky's minutes.
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What? So whoever fills in the Michigan front court next year (McGary, Horford, J. Morgan all leaving) made "the big jump" because they are going from 0-5 mpg to 30 mpg automatically? There's no way that Cadougan graduating and Duane's injury had any impact on the increase of Wilson's minutes last year, right?
Graduation happens every year in every program. The players left have to develop and beat out the other players on the roster. Derrick did that last year. And believe it or not, while it gave Derrick a few more minutes/game because Duane was not available at all, Derrick was going to get a large majority of the minutes at the point regardless of whether Duane was healthy or not.
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Graduation happens every year in every program. The players left have to develop and beat out the other players on the roster. Derrick did that last year. And believe it or not, while it gave Derrick a few more minutes/game because Duane was not available at all, Derrick was going to get a large majority of the minutes at the point regardless of whether Duane was healthy or not.
Okay, then I should expect him to get ~30 mpg again this year? Same guys to compete with and with the large strides he took last year, it'd be tough to justify playing him less...
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The real question is: did those occurrences have any impact on Frank Kaminsky's minutes.
No. The real issue is Josh Gasser: Gifted traditional or overrated windbag?
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The usual suspects and Derrick lovers have aligned nicely in this thread:
TAMU
Tower
Wades
Sorry...I can't get excited over the minuscule "improvement" your stats tried to illustrate TAMU. A whopping .8ppg improvement? Regressing in rebounds? Turning the ball over more? For the few categories he showed minuscule improvement, he also regressed by a minuscule amount in others.
And no, I won't put a ton of stock into overall O-rating where a guy averaged 31 minutes per game and played every game compared to a guy who averaged 9 minutes a game and didn't get to play roughly 10 games. One guy shoots 81% from the FT line, the other 43%. One guy made 7, 3pt shots on the year, the other guy 1, on 7% shooting...and has made 2 for his career through the end of his junior year.
If you think we fell from an Elite 8 team and Big East champion of the tough Big East, to a 9-9 team that missed the NIT, that only beat 3 Top 50 teams for the whole year...due to Vander and Trent not being on the team...well...don't know what to tell you.
The 4 on 5 offense we ran all year, (Buzz's label), did greatly hamper every other guy on the court...whether it was Jake, Jamil, Gardner, Juan, Mayo...
I've never seen a high major PG get "defended" the way Derrick was last year...generally a good 5-6' off of him at all times on perimeter.
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To say Derrick improved from soph to junior based on stats is misleading because his role was so very different. As a soph, he was a few-minute-spurt defensive stopper who wasn't ever expected to do anything offensively. As a junior, he was a 30 mpg starting PG for the defending Big East champions. Expectations, responsibilities, everything was different. He might as well have been two different players. Comparing the two seasons is silly.
I don't have to look at stats to say that Derrick improved some over the course of his junior season. Again, however, this is meaningless because he improved from being perhaps the worst offensive 30 mpg PG any of us have ever seen to being only slightly better than the worst. On a scale of 1-to-10, he maybe improved from 0.1 to 1.
I think most of us with eyes and any basketball knowledge can agree that he never was good enough to be the starting PG of a team with any kind of championship aspirations and that he never improved enough to be such a PG. It is logical to project that he will be nowhere near good enough next season, either.
Having said all that, let's go back to the original topic. I don't know squat about Carlino. His stats are only OK. But if he is good enough to be an effective offensive PG/shooter for a good D1 college team and he wants to come to Marquette, we should welcome him to Warrior Nation.
Why assume Duane will be great? Why assume Dawson is any good at all? For God's sake, why assume that Derrick will be any better? If Duane and Dawson do turn out to be any good, why assume they will stay healthy all season? If they are any good, why assume that they won't get plenty of playing time in 3-guard and 4-guard sets?
Dawson came to Marquette assuming that Derrick, Duane and maybe even Vander were going to be ahead of him at PG last season and that Mayo, JJJ and maybe Duane would be ahead of him at SG for two seasons. Now we're going to worry about his psyche? And if Duane isn't mentally strong enough and confident enough to believe he is going to carve out a niche for himself, that's on him.
If we learned one thing last season, it was that you can't have enough PGs and you can't have enough outside shooting threats. Plus, we have 3 scholarships to fill and the odds of us landing 3 guys who actually can contribute next season are extremely low. If Carlino is good enough to give us good play at PG and reasonably good shooting, I can't believe there is even any debate.
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Well said MU82
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If we learned one thing last season, it was that you can't have enough PGs and you can't have enough outside shooting threats.
It would be nice if they were one and the same.
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Ners, we all agree that Derrick being our PG was one of in not the chief problems last season. We even agree that he was consistently the worst player on the floor.
Where we don't agree is the solution. Dawson was the only other PG on the roster, and I saw nothing to make me think he would do any better. That is a matter of opinion, not fact. We will never know who was right, that season is over. Nor will we ever agree.
That is all I have to say about this topic until next season.
Back to Carlino. Duane/Dawson are unknowns and Derrick is clearly not a winning option for the PG. I think bringing in an experienced PG from a NCAA tournament team would do wonders for us. At best he's our starting PG and improves on his numbers from his days as a Cougar. At worst he's a backup PG or wing who can give us another three point presence on the floor. Sounds like a win win to me.
In the end, we have three open scholarships. Don't really have the ability to be too picky.
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I saw nothing to make me think he would do any better
http://www.youtube.com/v/1dR1pkCGY80?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
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Could we just get back to talking about Matt Carlino? Seriously, we've hammered the Derrick points home for months now.
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.......like the fact that according to Jeff Goodman he just committed.......
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Welcome, welcome...
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Nice!
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OK then. If any good comes out of this it'll be mean Derrick will now be pushed to 3rd or 4th in the PG rotation. Carlino and Duane might be a good duel PG lineup (not sold on Dawson).
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The usual suspects and Derrick lovers have aligned nicely in this thread:
TAMU
Tower
Wades
Please God. Help Ners understand that we don't love Derrick. We just don't agree on the solution. And please find Ners a new drum to bang.
I probably need to confess to using God's name in vain here.
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Paint Touches @PaintTouches · 28s
Marquette now at 11 scholarships for the 2014-15 season. Currently one player taller than 6-foot-7.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches · 7m
Carlino will step in at the point right away. Averaged 13.7 points, 4.3 assists per game last year at BYU. #mubb
Paint Touches @PaintTouches · 9m
The Derrick Wilson Era, we hardly knew ye.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches · 14m
RT @GoodmanESPN: Marquette has landed a commitment from BYU graduate transfer Matt Carlino, who is eligible to play this coming season.
Paint Touches @PaintTouches · 14m
#mubb RT @EvanDaniels: Matt Carlino to Marquette, per a source.
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Wish I was more excited about this transfer than I am. A log jam now at guard when we needed help in the frontcourt.
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Wish I was more excited about this transfer than I am. A log jam now at guard when we needed help in the frontcourt.
We have all our guards back from last year. Let's just say, guard play was not strong last year.
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Wish I was more excited about this transfer than I am. A log jam now at guard when we needed help in the frontcourt.
We needed help everywhere, including the perimeter. We had the scholly and we weren't going to get three big men. It's a one-and-done situation. The best players will earn minutes. We will use plenty of 3- and 4-guard sets. Did you see Villanova play this past season? A team can win going small.
I see zero down side to this ... unless Carlino sucks. And he apparently doesn't.
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We have all our guards back from last year. Let's just say, guard play was not strong last year.
Yes, but I was hoping that the young guys would get more playing time next year to help their development. My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps. Carlino does not come to MU unless he knows he's the #1 guy, especially since he is leaving BYU because he is not guaranteed to start there next season.
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Paint Touches @PaintTouches 1m
The last FOUR seasons combined Marquette's starting PGs have made 63 3-pointers. Last year alone Carlino made 60. #mubb
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2 scholarships left. I know pickings are slim, but Wojo HAS to find another big somewhere (somehow, I doubt we'll take another rental recruit).
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Yes, but I was hoping that the young guys would get more playing time next year to help their development. My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps. Carlino does not come to MU unless he knows he's the #1 guy, especially since he is leaving BYU because he is not guaranteed to start there next season.
Again, players will develop regardless of whether they are getting 40 mpg or 1 mpg. Not taking a player because they will stunt the progress of other players on the rosters is arguably the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this board (and it is far from just you suggesting this is the case), and there have been some really, really dumb things said on here. If Carlino is not a good player and cannot help this team win games, then Duane and John should have no problem beating him out. If they do have trouble beating him out and Carlino stinks, then regardless of their development, those 2 players will probably never be very good. If we're worried their feelings will get hurt and they will transfer out because a not-so-good player came in and took their minutes, then they aren't good either and their transfer out won't hurt the future of our program. This is an absolute no lose situation. If Carlino sucks and Dawson and Duane don't, then Carlino sits and can pout all he wants, he's out after 1 year. If Carlino kicks ass and Duane and Dawson are good but just not as good, then we have a lot of talent and depth in the back court. If they all are bad then we can recruit for the future and stink again next year. Win-win scenario by getting Carlino.
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Yes, but I was hoping that the young guys would get more playing time next year to help their development. My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps. Carlino does not come to MU unless he knows he's the #1 guy, especially since he is leaving BYU because he is not guaranteed to start there next season.
But what about next year?
You get the best roster possible to win any given year. The point guard situation was between a rock and a hard place. Now we actually have options.
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Yes, but I was hoping that the young guys would get more playing time next year to help their development. My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps. Carlino does not come to MU unless he knows he's the #1 guy, especially since he is leaving BYU because he is not guaranteed to start there next season.
Let's say we don't take Carlino because we don't want to "stunt the growth" of the young guys.
And then Duane gets hurt again. And/or Dawson turns out not to be especially good when given extended minutes. And/or JJJ gets suspended for some odd thing.
What then? I'll tell you what then: We're ripping Wojo for not being prepared, for not using an available scholly on a proven college guard who wanted to be a Warrior, and for relying on a failed senior (Derrick) and a bunch of unproven kids. That's what then!
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Paint Touches @PaintTouches 1m
Burton said earlier this month that he likes Duane Wilson as a 2 more than at the point. He certainly has the scoring skill set.
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Yes, but I was hoping that the young guys would get more playing time next year to help their development. My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps. Carlino does not come to MU unless he knows he's the #1 guy, especially since he is leaving BYU because he is not guaranteed to start there next season.
Now, this scenario would be some bull$h!t. Derrick getting bulk minutes would make Scoop explode.
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Wish I was more excited about this transfer than I am. A log jam now at guard when we needed help in the frontcourt.
Considering the PG position was dismal last season, I don't see a "logjam" at all.
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Considering the PG position was dismal last season, I don't see a "logjam" at all.
Yeah...exactly. Potential? Sure. Productive? No.
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BTW, congrats to the "hacks" at Bleacher Report for nailing this one.
Enjoy playing with your new hashtag.
#DoneDeal
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My guess is Carlino and D. Wilson get the bulk of the minutes while Duane and John get the scraps.
This was HILARIOUS. You honestly believe that D. Wilson is going to be part of a tandem getting the "bulk" of the minutes at PG. D Wilson is going to do exactly what he's meant to do next year--spell bona fide starters, and play staunch defense for 8-10 minutes every game (assuming his offensive talent hasn't improved).
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Again, players will develop regardless of whether they are getting 40 mpg or 1 mpg. Not taking a player because they will stunt the progress of other players on the rosters is arguably the dumbest thing I've ever heard on this board (and it is far from just you suggesting this is the case), and there have been some really, really dumb things said on here. If Carlino is not a good player and cannot help this team win games, then Duane and John should have no problem beating him out. If they do have trouble beating him out and Carlino stinks, then regardless of their development, those 2 players will probably never be very good. If we're worried their feelings will get hurt and they will transfer out because a not-so-good player came in and took their minutes, then they aren't good either and their transfer out won't hurt the future of our program. This is an absolute no lose situation. If Carlino sucks and Dawson and Duane don't, then Carlino sits and can pout all he wants, he's out after 1 year. If Carlino kicks ass and Duane and Dawson are good but just not as good, then we have a lot of talent and depth in the back court. If they all are bad then we can recruit for the future and stink again next year. Win-win scenario by getting Carlino.
Well, taking your response and others, it sure seems like I'm in the minority on this one. Also glad I was able to contribute one of the dumbest statements on this board - that is quite an accomplishment!
That said, there is no such thing as an "absolute no lose situation," especially in sports. And with Carlino's attitude in question as leaves BYU, there is a risk of chemistry issues next year - although we had our problems with that this year too.
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This was HILARIOUS. You honestly believe that D. Wilson is going to be part of a tandem getting the "bulk" of the minutes at PG. D Wilson is going to do exactly what he's meant to do next year--spell bona fide starters, and play staunch defense for 8-10 minutes every game (assuming his offensive talent hasn't improved).
I think that is what Norm is saying. In most games Carlino will get 30ish minutes and Derrick will get 10ish. Meaning the bulk of the minutes at the 1 goes to them.
I bet we see a lot of three and four guard sets next season. Carlino, Dawson, and Duane all have the ability to play the 1 or the 2. They will share PG duties.
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I think that is what Norm is saying. In most games Carlino will get 30ish minutes and Derrick will get 10ish. Meaning the bulk of the minutes at the 1 goes to them.
I bet we see a lot of three and four guard sets next season. Carlino, Dawson, and Duane all have the ability to play the 1 or the 2. They will share PG duties.
Yes, I was thinking of a scenario that TAMU described.
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Well, taking your response and others, it sure seems like I'm in the minority on this one. Also glad I was able to contribute one of the dumbest statements on this board - that is quite an accomplishment!
That said, there is no such thing as an "absolute no lose situation," especially in sports. And with Carlino's attitude in question as leaves BYU, there is a risk of chemistry issues next year - although we had our problems with that this year too.
Agree...chemistry could be an issue...Carlino has had problems getting along with people at both UCLA and BYU...IU too?
What is he, a 5th year senior after his transfer from IU? He'll obviously be an upgrade over Derrick. Will just have to see how it plays out in practice for minutes at PG...
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Carlino has had problems getting along with people at BYU...
I have buddies who fly for Delta and live in Park City. They have problems with people in Provo. Hell, people in Provo would likely have problems with most of the people on this board. Frankly, I take that as a positive.
Press on, Carlino!
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I have buddies who fly for Delta and live in Park City. They have problems with people in Provo. Hell, people in Provo would likely have problems with most of the people on this board. Frankly, I take that as a positive.
Press on, Carlino!
It's hard not to be pissed off in Provo when you can't buy a 6 pack for yourself without paying 20 bucks and can only get it from a state liquor store
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Agree...chemistry could be an issue...Carlino has had problems getting along with people at both UCLA and BYU...IU too?
What is he, a 5th year senior after his transfer from IU? He'll obviously be an upgrade over Derrick. Will just have to see how it plays out in practice for minutes at PG...
IIRC, he never played for IU. Committed to them and decommitted to go to UCLA. Never played at UCLA and transferred to BYU. Started from day 1 in Provo.
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If we get him do we get to play 5 on 5 again? If so, I'm all in.
Exactly id take him over #12 any day.
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Exactly id take him over #12 any day.
Who's #12?
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Who's #12?
#12 in your program but #1 in the hearts of Scoopers...Mr. Derrick Wilson
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The comments section in this article is worth reading .
http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865601806/Report-Former-BYU-basketball-guard-Matt-Carlino-will-transfer-to-Marquette.html
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The comments section in this article is worth reading .
http://m.deseretnews.com/article/865601806/Report-Former-BYU-basketball-guard-Matt-Carlino-will-transfer-to-Marquette.html
Yep, BYU is comprised of decent religious folk.
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#12 in your program but #1 in the hearts of Scoopers...Mr. Derrick Wilson
#12 is a joke offensively and average defensively.
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I watched the first half of the BYU/MU NCAA tournament game yesterday. Carlino started as a freshmen in that game. He looked good for a freshmen. However, what impressed me the most in that game was how good/talented MU was compared to last season. While I would go with Cadougan, there really was not that much difference between Cadougan and Derrick as juniors. However, there was a huge difference between Cadougan being teamed with DJO vs Wilson being teamed with Thomas. There was an even bigger difference between being teamed with Crowder at power forward vs. Jamil. although I was not a Vander Blue fan he was easily better at the 3 than any of the options that Derrick was teamed with. Throw away the point guards the team of Crowder/DJO/Blue, Jamil would of wiped the floor with Thomas/Jamil/Anderson/Otule. Both teams had Mayo and Gardner coming off the bench. Derrick is not a great point guard, but he is getting more criticism than he should, because the rest of the team was not any good either.
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I watched the first half of the BYU/MU NCAA tournament game yesterday. Carlino started as a freshmen in that game. He looked good for a freshmen. However, what impressed me the most in that game was how good/talented MU was compared to last season. While I would go with Cadougan, there really was not that much difference between Cadougan and Derrick as juniors. However, there was a huge difference between Cadougan being teamed with DJO vs Wilson being teamed with Thomas. There was an even bigger difference between being teamed with Crowder at power forward vs. Jamil. although I was not a Vander Blue fan he was easily better at the 3 than any of the options that Derrick was teamed with. Throw away the point guards the team of Crowder/DJO/Blue, Jamil would of wiped the floor with Thomas/Jamil/Anderson/Otule. Both teams had Mayo and Gardner coming off the bench. Derrick is not a great point guard, but he is getting more criticism than he should, because the rest of the team was not any good either.
Have to agree, Derrick is even worse on a bad team, on a good team he would be fine. Jamil, average player, hot and cold. Anderson big disappointment, Love Chris as a person but not really
a good player, not sure how much he improved offensively over 6 years, and Thomas was good and bad, as a walk-on pretty good, but not an everyday player. You can see why MU was 17-15. Add Buzz's style of bringing in players every minute and I am sure there were quite a few unhappy players last year. Hopefully there will be a smaller rotation next year.
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I watched the first half of the BYU/MU NCAA tournament game yesterday. Carlino started as a freshmen in that game. He looked good for a freshmen. However, what impressed me the most in that game was how good/talented MU was compared to last season. While I would go with Cadougan, there really was not that much difference between Cadougan and Derrick as juniors. However, there was a huge difference between Cadougan being teamed with DJO vs Wilson being teamed with Thomas. There was an even bigger difference between being teamed with Crowder at power forward vs. Jamil. although I was not a Vander Blue fan he was easily better at the 3 than any of the options that Derrick was teamed with. Throw away the point guards the team of Crowder/DJO/Blue, Jamil would of wiped the floor with Thomas/Jamil/Anderson/Otule. Both teams had Mayo and Gardner coming off the bench. Derrick is not a great point guard, but he is getting more criticism than he should, because the rest of the team was not any good either.
Testify.
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Testify.
Watching Carlino right now during Pepperdine-Byu game, Carlino is thin, not to athletic, lots of bench time, he will have to earn his minutes, no guarentee he starts next year, Derrick,much more athletic. Has not payed the last 10 minutes in second half, I can see why he transferred.
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For a little perspective
Carlino 1,201 career points
Mayo 738 career points
MU's other 9 players combine for 1,087 career points
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I watched the first half of the BYU/MU NCAA tournament game yesterday. Carlino started as a freshmen in that game. He looked good for a freshmen. However, what impressed me the most in that game was how good/talented MU was compared to last season. While I would go with Cadougan, there really was not that much difference between Cadougan and Derrick as juniors. However, there was a huge difference between Cadougan being teamed with DJO vs Wilson being teamed with Thomas. There was an even bigger difference between being teamed with Crowder at power forward vs. Jamil. although I was not a Vander Blue fan he was easily better at the 3 than any of the options that Derrick was teamed with. Throw away the point guards the team of Crowder/DJO/Blue, Jamil would of wiped the floor with Thomas/Jamil/Anderson/Otule. Both teams had Mayo and Gardner coming off the bench. Derrick is not a great point guard, but he is getting more criticism than he should, because the rest of the team was not any good either.
Sssssshhhhhh. You're just a Derrick slurper. He wouldn't start on a D3 team.
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Sssssshhhhhh. You're just a Derrick slurper. He wouldn't start on a D3 team.
Just goes to show how bad Dawson is that he could not beat out a point guard that would not start at a division 3 school.
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#12 in your program but #1 in the hearts of Scoopers...Mr. Derrick Wilson
Hahaha
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Just goes to show how bad Dawson is that he could not beat out a point guard that would not start at a division 3 school.
Dawson was given exactly one game of equal minutes to what Derrick averaged all season. He scored 12 points in that game. 7 in Overtime. Dawson has tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made in just spotty action as a freshman. Dawson shoots 81% from the line. Dawson has to be defended everywhere on the court...defenses don't sag off of him 6 feet.
Buzz had a hardcore Derrick Crush last year, and obviously knew he was on his way out and didn't care about developing the freshman.
Will be interesting to see if MU posts better than a 17-15 record next year, 9-9 in Big East and if Derrick plays less than 10 minutes. Would be really bizarre for the team to improve if he wasn't major problem...as we lost our top 2 scorers off the team - Jamil and Gardner - along with our starting 2 guard who Buzz CHOSE to play max minutes as well.
No way should the team be better next season...but...I have a strong feeling Derrick will NOT be getting 31 minutes a game next year...and in turn...the team likely will be better...even though it lost its two best players to graduation.
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Dawson was given exactly one game of equal minutes to what Derrick averaged all season. He scored 12 points in that game. 7 in Overtime. Dawson has tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made in just spotty action as a freshman. Dawson shoots 81% from the line. Dawson has to be defended everywhere on the court...defenses don't sag off of him 6 feet.
Buzz had a hardcore Derrick Crush last year, and obviously knew he was on his way out and didn't care about developing the freshman.
Will be interesting to see if MU posts better than a 17-15 record next year, 9-9 in Big East and if Derrick plays less than 10 minutes. Would be really bizarre for the team to improve if he wasn't major problem...as we lost our top 2 scorers off the team - Jamil and Gardner - along with our starting 2 guard who Buzz CHOSE to play max minutes as well.
No way should the team be better next season...but...I have a strong feeling Derrick will NOT be getting 31 minutes a game next year...and in turn...the team likely will be better...even though it lost its two best players to graduation.
Uh. No. That's a poor logical construction.
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Uh. No. That's a poor logical construction.
LOL - Please enlighten me how a team that loses 4 seniors, 2 of which were its leading scorers, along with its max minutes starting 2 guard, should have a better record this upcoming season?
The problem for those of you who continue to take up for Derrick, is that it is simply ludicrous and indefensible to suggest he improved a lot last year, and wasn't the MAIN reason why the team regressed from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT.
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LOL - Please enlighten me how a team that loses 4 seniors, 2 of which were its leading scorers, along with its max minutes starting 2 guard, should have a better record this upcoming season?
The problem for those of you who continue to take up for Derrick, is that it is simply ludicrous and indefensible to suggest he improved a lot last year, and wasn't the MAIN reason why the team regressed from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT.
1. Your construction is only tying in Derrick to the team's success. There are many more variables that go into the success/failure of the team besides Derrick's minutes. So, as I said, it's a poor logical construct.
2. I think you keep lumping people into two groups - pro-Derrick and anti-Derrick. Nowhere did I ever state that Derrick improved a lot last year, in fact I don't think I've even gotten into the Derrick-improvement debate. I will say that I do think Derrick improved as the year progressed, but I don't think he improved "a lot." I think Derrick was a problem, albeit a large portion, that led to a non-tourney team this year. But he was also far from being the ONLY problem.
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Dawson was given exactly one game of equal minutes to what Derrick averaged all season. He scored 12 points in that game. 7 in Overtime. Dawson has tripled Derrick's career 3 point FG's made in just spotty action as a freshman. Dawson shoots 81% from the line. Dawson has to be defended everywhere on the court...defenses don't sag off of him 6 feet.
Buzz had a hardcore Derrick Crush last year, and obviously knew he was on his way out and didn't care about developing the freshman.
Will be interesting to see if MU posts better than a 17-15 record next year, 9-9 in Big East and if Derrick plays less than 10 minutes. Would be really bizarre for the team to improve if he wasn't major problem...as we lost our top 2 scorers off the team - Jamil and Gardner - along with our starting 2 guard who Buzz CHOSE to play max minutes as well.
No way should the team be better next season...but...I have a strong feeling Derrick will NOT be getting 31 minutes a game next year...and in turn...the team likely will be better...even though it lost its two best players to graduation.
Back to thinking players don't develop other than playing in games. Hilarious.
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LOL - Please enlighten me how a team that loses 4 seniors, 2 of which were its leading scorers, along with its max minutes starting 2 guard, should have a better record this upcoming season?
The problem for those of you who continue to take up for Derrick, is that it is simply ludicrous and indefensible to suggest he improved a lot last year, and wasn't the MAIN reason why the team regressed from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT.
here is another way to look at this, Ners: the way that the team got better, even with those significant losses, was this: The team got rid of the stubborn, phony, downhome lonesome cowboy coach.
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Who's #12?
"Daddy, why isn't anybody guarding #12?" said the young girl to her Dad at an MU game.
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#12 in your program but #1 in the hearts of Scoopers...Mr. Derrick Wilson
Especially #1 in Sultan and Eagles hearts, minds and souls. Both are wishing everyday that Derrick get 30 plus minutes, so this season they can chime in: "na nanny Poo Poo--I told you so! Derrick is the man."
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Especially #1 in Sultan and Eagles hearts, minds and souls. Both are wishing everyday that Derrick get 30 plus minutes, so this season they can chime in: "na nanny Poo Poo--I told you so! Derrick is the man."
Nope! We actually hate that Derrick was our starter. We just recognize that he was the best option in a really bad situation. That's why I'm ecstatic that CoWojo tooks steps to correct this and brought in Matt Carlino.
Long live CoWojo!
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Nope! We actually hate that Derrick was our starter. We just recognize that he was the best option in a really bad situation. That's why I'm ecstatic that CoWojo tooks steps to correct this and brought in Matt Carlino.
Exactly. No matter how many times you explain that to ole willie, he can't seem to figure it out.
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Nope! We actually hate that Derrick was our starter. We just recognize that he was the best option in a really bad situation. That's why I'm ecstatic that CoWojo tooks steps to correct this and brought in Matt Carlino.
Long live CoWojo!
This is the most accurate statement. Bash Buzz for not having a better point guard on the team. No reason to bash Derrick as he always gave maximum effort. Same goes for Thomas. The team makeup was 100% Buzz's responsibility. I realize that Derrick and Thomas were the worst back court in the Big East, but they were always ready to give their max. Contrast that to Gardner, who specifically said he was not working as hard in practice as he could and Jamil who never seemed to play a maximum effort game. Some of you thought Mayo and Dawson should be starting, which may or may not have resulted in better results. However, that was not Derrick's and Thomas's fault, except if you thought they should of dogged it in practice so the other players could start. Basically, the least talented players gave maximum effort and the more talented players did not.
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This is the most accurate statement. Bash Buzz for not having a better point guard on the team. No reason to bash Derrick as he always gave maximum effort. Same goes for Thomas. The team makeup was 100% Buzz's responsibility. I realize that Derrick and Thomas were the worst back court in the Big East, but they were always ready to give their max. Contrast that to Gardner, who specifically said he was not working as hard in practice as he could and Jamil who never seemed to play a maximum effort game. Some of you thought Mayo and Dawson should be starting, which may or may not have resulted in better results. However, that was not Derrick's and Thomas's fault, except if you thought they should of dogged it in practice so the other players could start. Basically, the least talented players gave maximum effort and the more talented players did not.
Gardner specifically said he wasn't working as hard as he could in practice? When did he say this? If Mayo and Dawson started, the results would have been much better ;D
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So simple. Yet so difficult to comprehend. Don't blame Derrick and Jake. They went out and busted their humps, played to the scouting report on defense, and gave their all to/for the team. And remember that if the starting backcourt had been Duane and Vander, the season would have gone a whole lot different. But Oxtule was a bad idea. Not starting an offensive threat of some kind at the '3', be it Todd, Deonte, JJJ early, left the team unbalanced. Jamil was a passive enigma. I never said that Derrick was great. I have consistently said he was the best option on that team to start at the point.
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So simple. Yet so difficult to comprehend. Don't blame Derrick and Jake. They went out and busted their humps, played to the scouting report on defense, and gave their all to/for the team. And remember that if the starting backcourt had been Duane and Vander, the season would have gone a whole lot different. But Oxtule was a bad idea. Not starting an offensive threat of some kind at the '3', be it Todd, Deonte, JJJ early, left the team unbalanced. Jamil was a passive enigma. I never said that Derrick was great. I have consistently said he was the best option on that team to start at the point.
slurper
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The whole "Derrick debate" was never really a debate about Derrick, but rather conclusions based upon poor logic, people challenging the logic, and people getting accused of being a fanboy or a slurper.
This is another example.
A. MU might be better this season. It is conceivable.
B. Derrick Wilson might play less. It is probable.
A. is not directly caused by B. Too many variables to make that conclusion. Bad logic. Bad conclusion.
Not slurping.
Critical thinking.
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slurper
Hey! You can't use that word! Only we can use that word!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UawSjQxqbfE
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Exactly. No matter how many times you explain that to ole willie, he can't seem to figure it out.
Oh, don't worry Sultan, I have you all figured out, including your love for Buzz/Derrick, regardless what you proclaim now.
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The whole "Derrick debate" was never really a debate about Derrick, but rather conclusions based upon poor logic, people challenging the logic, and people getting accused of being a fanboy or a slurper.
This is another example.
A. MU might be better this season. It is conceivable.
B. Derrick Wilson might play less. It is probable.
A. is not directly caused by B. Too many variables to make that conclusion. Bad logic. Bad conclusion.
Not slurping.
Critical thinking.
This was what I was saying. Thanks.
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slurper
Very few people blame Derrick directly. They recognize that his skill level is a back up. They blame the bozo who tried to jam the guy down the critics' throats, in spite of ample evidence that it was not working. Some still defend that to the hilt, which makes for interesting conversation here.
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Nope! We actually hate that Derrick was our starter. We just recognize that he was the best option in a really bad situation. That's why I'm ecstatic that CoWojo tooks steps to correct this and brought in Matt Carlino.
Long live CoWojo!
Here's the problem for you, Tower and Guns. No, Derrick wasn't the best option in a really bad situation just as:
Juan Anderson had no business playing more/starting over Deonte Burton from Day 1 of the season.
Jake Thomas had no business playing more/starting over Todd Mayo
Chris Otule had no business starting over Davante...and Davante only averaging 25 minutes a game last season...
Just as Derrick Wilson had ZERO reason to be playing 32 minutes a game and more minutes than any other player on the team...and playing more than Dawson.
Buzz was an idiot last season....for all of the above reasons...and they all explain why we went from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT. The most egregious coaching decision he made of course was not ever radically modifying the PG playing time allocation other than for 1 game against Georgetown and it worked out pretty well. You don't draw conclusions on a player based on 3, 2 to 3 minute stints of playing time..and if in that time the kid makes a mistake he hits the bench. Hell if Derrick were coached that way...he'd have been benched frequently.
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Here's the problem for you, Tower and Guns. No, Derrick wasn't the best option in a really bad situation just as:
OK....WE GET IT!!!
My god how many f*cking times are we going to have this stupid debate?? You disagree with them. You disagree with me. We disagree with you.
Just stating the same thing over and over and over again doesn't change that.
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Oh, don't worry Sultan, I have you all figured out, including your love for Buzz/Derrick, regardless what you proclaim now.
I want you to find one statement...just one...that shows inconsistency between my thoughts on Buzz and Derrick during the season, and my thoughts now.
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Here's the problem for you, Tower and Guns. No, Derrick wasn't the best option in a really bad situation just as:
Juan Anderson had no business playing more/starting over Deonte Burton from Day 1 of the season.
Jake Thomas had no business playing more/starting over Todd Mayo
Chris Otule had no business starting over Davante...and Davante only averaging 25 minutes a game last season...
Just as Derrick Wilson had ZERO reason to be playing 32 minutes a game and more minutes than any other player on the team...and playing more than Dawson.
Buzz was an idiot last season....for all of the above reasons...and they all explain why we went from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT. The most egregious coaching decision he made of course was not ever radically modifying the PG playing time allocation other than for 1 game against Georgetown and it worked out pretty well. You don't draw conclusions on a player based on 3, 2 to 3 minute stints of playing time..and if in that time the kid makes a mistake he hits the bench. Hell if Derrick were coached that way...he'd have been benched frequently.
Ahh, this again. I forgot that college coaches don't make decisions based on what they see in their 10-15 hours of practice time a week, only in the 40 minutes of game time.
You and your decorated basketball career have a great grasp on how decisions like playing time are made. Hilarious.
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Derrick WAS coached like that as a freshman and a sophomore. So was Cadougan as a sophomore. So was every other true freshman that came through while Buzz was the coach with the exception of Blue. For better or worse, Buzz played his upperclassmen except when he had no other option.
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Ahh, this again. I forgot that college coaches don't make decisions based on what they see in their 10-15 hours of practice time a week, only in the 40 minutes of game time.
You and your decorated basketball career have a great grasp on how decisions like playing time are made. Hilarious.
Yeah smart ass...I do have a good grasp on how playing time decisions are made by good coaches who aren't off their rocker...as Buzz was last year. Please....go ahead and answer the point I made:
Why did Juan start/play more than Burton?
Jake start/play more than Mayo?
Otule start over Gardner (and give me a break if you say to win the tip as that gets nullified through alternating possession.) Why didn't Gardner get more than 25 minutes a game?
This just in....Most coaches play their BEST guys the most minutes...NOT their two most limited guys the most minutes...
Why in God's name would Buzz trot out a lineup of Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil and Otule? You are the opposing coach - who is the one guy you are going to focus on taking away??? Jamil...yet people want to dog Jamil and the season he had....he and Davante were greatly shackled by playing with the worst starting backcourt in the Big East...and one Buzz refused to radically alter with Mayo, JJJ and Dawson all being far more talented riding the bench...for whole games/good chunks of minutes.
Not sure why I even bother responding to someone who clearly has ZERO clue about the game of basketball.
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Not sure why I even bother responding to someone who clearly has ZERO clue about the game of basketball.
Irony. Wonderful, delicious irony.
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OK....WE GET IT!!!
My god how many f*cking times are we going to have this stupid debate?? You disagree with them. You disagree with me. We disagree with you.
Just stating the same thing over and over and over again doesn't change that.
As soon as you and the other handful of morons stop trying to float the notion that Derrick "was the best option Buzz had available." Just as I said...Burton better than Juan, Todd better than Jake, Gardner better than Otule...yet Buzz obviously didn't max their minutes.
And yea...when you have a PG that shoots 43% from the FT Line, has made 2, 3pt shots through the end of his junior season, does not need to be defended within 6' on the perimeter, and refuses to take a shot outside of 3' away from the basket other than about 4 times in all of conference play....while you have a kid who shots 81% from the FT line, and has tripled the career 3 point makes in spotty play as a freshman...sitting behind the other guy....there was a better option.
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Irony. Wonderful, delicious irony.
Says the guy who had to high tail it off this board after trying to defend Buzz, Derrick, and Jake all season long...did you finally clear all the egg off your face these past two months that you are now able to resurface?
Maybe you should go join your other astute basketball mind buddy BrewCity back over at BrewCity Ball...and you can get more of his great analysis...such as can be found in my signature with his astute basketball mind..
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Says the guy who had to high tail it off this board after trying to defend Buzz, Derrick, and Jake all season long...did you finally clear all the egg off your face these past two months that you are now able to resurface?
I left for Lent because I could no longer be a part of a board that personally insulted our student athletes, and because of the fact that the moderators refused to moderate.
My 40 days away did not change my mind one bit about who Buzz should have played or how he should have approached the season. So nice try.
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I left for Lent because I could no longer be a part of a board that personally insulted our student athletes, and because of the fact that the moderators refused to moderate.
My 40 days away did not change my mind one bit about who Buzz should have played or how he should have approached the season. So nice try.
Irony. Wonderful, delicious irony.
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Irony. Wonderful, delicious irony.
I think you need to look up the definition of irony. Because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
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I think you need to look up the definition of irony. Because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
(http://www.catholicmannight.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tumblr_m81efoicir1r927dro1_500-gif.jpg)
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Yeah smart ass...I do have a good grasp on how playing time decisions are made by good coaches who aren't off their rocker...as Buzz was last year. Please....go ahead and answer the point I made:
Why did Juan start/play more than Burton?
Jake start/play more than Mayo?
Otule start over Gardner (and give me a break if you say to win the tip as that gets nullified through alternating possession.) Why didn't Gardner get more than 25 minutes a game?
This just in....Most coaches play their BEST guys the most minutes...NOT their two most limited guys the most minutes...
That.
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I think you need to look up the definition of irony. Because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Not necessary....the point being made is that it is ironic that you call into question my knowledge of basketball, when you popped off with your statement after having had 40 days to reflect:
My 40 days away did not change my mind one bit about who Buzz should have played or how he should have approached the season.
And Buzz's genius and how he approached last season (which you supported all season long), led to an amazing 17-15 finish, 9-9 in the Big East after being picked to win it all, Buzz returning more letter winners than ever before in his tenure, and having his most highly touted recruiting class coming in the door. Clearly an awesome coaching job last year.
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I left for Lent because I could no longer be a part of a board that personally insulted our student athletes, and because of the fact that the moderators refused to moderate.
My 40 days away did not change my mind one bit about who Buzz should have played or how he should have approached the season. So nice try.
Not much of a sacrifice then. I thought one ought to suffer during Lent?
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As soon as you and the other handful of morons stop trying to float the notion that Derrick "was the best option Buzz had available."
(http://www.ptm.org/08PT/Nov/conform.jpg)
Dear God man. Some people on a message board have a different opinion than you. Settle down. Get some perspective. Are you going to internet scream at us until we change our minds? It is possible for two people, with equal understandings of basketball, to have different opinions on the same scenario you know.
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(http://www.ptm.org/08PT/Nov/conform.jpg)
Dear God man. Some people on a message board have a different opinion than you. Settle down. Get some perspective. Are you going to internet scream at us until we change our minds? It is possible for two people, with equal understandings of basketball, to have different opinions on the same scenario you know.
The point is...Buzz had a better option than Derrick for 32 minutes per game. He gave Dawson exactly 1 game all season of 30+ minutes and he played well. As has been discussed Pomoroy doesn't even assign an O-Rating to players who play less than 10 minutes in a game...of which Dawson got 18 of 32 I believe.
Just as Buzz should have played Mayo more than Jake
Just as Buzz should have played Burton more than Juan
Just as Buzz should have maxed Gardner's minutes EVERY game.
Buzz left a lot of talent sitting on the bench...and it is ludicrous to argue that there wasn't a better option at PG than a 7% 3pt shooter and 43% FT shooter. It's nearly impossible to be that awful of shooter as a guard...and if you don't think those offensive liabilities handcuffed the rest of the team..no, you don't know much about basketball. Last season's team was by a landslide Buzz's worst Offensive Efficiency team...ironic.
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The point is...Buzz had a better option than Derrick for 32 minutes per game. He gave Dawson exactly 1 game all season of 30+ minutes and he played well. As has been discussed Pomoroy doesn't even assign an O-Rating to players who play less than 10 minutes in a game...of which Dawson got 18 of 32 I believe.
Just as Buzz should have played Mayo more than Jake
Just as Buzz should have played Burton more than Juan
Just as Buzz should have maxed Gardner's minutes EVERY game.
Buzz left a lot of talent sitting on the bench...and it is ludicrous to argue that there wasn't a better option at PG than a 7% 3pt shooter and 43% FT shooter. It's nearly impossible to be that awful of shooter as a guard...and if you don't think those offensive liabilities handcuffed the rest of the team..no, you don't know much about basketball. Last season's team was by a landslide Buzz's worst Offensive Efficiency team...ironic.
TAMU's point just flew over your head...
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TAMU's point just flew over your head...
Nah....the issue isn't if two people can have a similar knowledge of basketball and arrive at a different conclusion...that can happen of course. The issue is that the original premise is flawed: That Derrick was the best available option of bad options. Buzz showed all season long he was playing inferior options when he could have played the below guys a lot more/over the other guy:
Burton over Juan
Mayo over Jake
Gardner over Otule
A PG that causes you to to play 4 on 5 in the coaches own words, that shoots 7% from 3, that shoots 43% from FT line...is not a good option at all...particularly when there is a kid sitting on the bench who shoots 81% from FT line, 28% from 3 point line, and has tripled the career makes from 3 pt land of the junior starting in front of him...while only playing spotty minutes...
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Nah....the issue isn't if two people can have a similar knowledge of basketball and arrive at a different conclusion...that can happen of course. The issue is that the original premise is flawed: That Derrick was the best available option of bad options.
No.
The issue that flew over your head is that you can continue to say the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...
...but you aren't going to change our minds.
So saying it ONE MORE TIME doesn't help.
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No.
The issue that flew over your head is that you can continue to say the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again...
...but you aren't going to change our minds.
So saying it ONE MORE TIME doesn't help.
Just admit you were wrong and we can all move on ;D
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The point is...Buzz had a better option than Derrick for 32 minutes per game. He gave Dawson exactly 1 game all season of 30+ minutes and he played well. As has been discussed Pomoroy doesn't even assign an O-Rating to players who play less than 10 minutes in a game...of which Dawson got 18 of 32 I believe.
Just as Buzz should have played Mayo more than Jake
Just as Buzz should have played Burton more than Juan
Just as Buzz should have maxed Gardner's minutes EVERY game.
Buzz left a lot of talent sitting on the bench...and it is ludicrous to argue that there wasn't a better option at PG than a 7% 3pt shooter and 43% FT shooter. It's nearly impossible to be that awful of shooter as a guard...and if you don't think those offensive liabilities handcuffed the rest of the team..no, you don't know much about basketball. Last season's team was by a landslide Buzz's worst Offensive Efficiency team...ironic.
(http://rs46.pbsrc.com/albums/f136/just_thomas/conform.gif~c200)
You have an opinion on who was the better PG. Others have a different opinion. All there is to it.
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Here's the problem for you, Tower and Guns. No, Derrick wasn't the best option in a really bad situation just as:
Juan Anderson had no business playing more/starting over Deonte Burton from Day 1 of the season.
Jake Thomas had no business playing more/starting over Todd Mayo
Chris Otule had no business starting over Davante...and Davante only averaging 25 minutes a game last season...
Just as Derrick Wilson had ZERO reason to be playing 32 minutes a game and more minutes than any other player on the team...and playing more than Dawson.
Buzz was an idiot last season....for all of the above reasons...and they all explain why we went from an Elite 8 team to missing the NIT. The most egregious coaching decision he made of course was not ever radically modifying the PG playing time allocation other than for 1 game against Georgetown and it worked out pretty well. You don't draw conclusions on a player based on 3, 2 to 3 minute stints of playing time..and if in that time the kid makes a mistake he hits the bench. Hell if Derrick were coached that way...he'd have been benched frequently.
Fine. Dawson was a far better player than Wilson. Good?
It still doesn't make this logic true:
A. MU was bad at basketball.
B. Derrick Wilson was bad at basketball.
B causes A.
(Doesn't work). Too many variables. Logical Fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Also, if MU is better next season, we can't just say: "Look, Derrick is playing less! See!". It doesn't work like that.
Logic.
Critical thinking.
Not slurping.
MU needs to get better performance out of several positions next season, including head coach.
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MU needs to get better performance out of head coach.
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Fine. Dawson was a far better player than Wilson. Good?
It still doesn't make this logic true:
A. MU was bad at basketball.
B. Derrick Wilson was bad at basketball.
B causes A.
(Doesn't work). Too many variables. Logical Fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Also, if MU is better next season, we can't just say: "Look, Derrick is playing less! See!". It doesn't work like that.
Logic.
Critical thinking.
Not slurping.
MU needs to get better performance out of several positions next season, including head coach.
We all know that Dylan Flood's lack of minutes this year directly correlates to how badly this team played this past year.
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The point is...Buzz had a better option than Derrick for 32 minutes per game. He gave Dawson exactly 1 game all season of 30+ minutes and he played well. As has been discussed Pomoroy doesn't even assign an O-Rating to players who play less than 10 minutes in a game...of which Dawson got 18 of 32 I believe.
Just as Buzz should have played Mayo more than Jake
Just as Buzz should have played Burton more than Juan
Just as Buzz should have maxed Gardner's minutes EVERY game.
Buzz left a lot of talent sitting on the bench...and it is ludicrous to argue that there wasn't a better option at PG than a 7% 3pt shooter and 43% FT shooter. It's nearly impossible to be that awful of shooter as a guard...and if you don't think those offensive liabilities handcuffed the rest of the team..no, you don't know much about basketball. Last season's team was by a landslide Buzz's worst Offensive Efficiency team...ironic.
And, probably more ironically, his worst DEFENSIVE efficiency team.
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Fine. Dawson was a far better player than Wilson. Good?
It still doesn't make this logic true:
A. MU was bad at basketball.
B. Derrick Wilson was bad at basketball.
B causes A.
(Doesn't work). Too many variables. Logical Fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Also, if MU is better next season, we can't just say: "Look, Derrick is playing less! See!". It doesn't work like that.
Logic.
Critical thinking.
Not slurping.
MU needs to get better performance out of several positions next season, including head coach.
Try This Cause/Effect scenario:
PG is the most important position on the floor in basketball much as QB is in football.
When the most important position on the floor is the weakest link....and by historic proportions - 7% 3 pt shooting, no midrange game, will only shoot at the goal, and doesn't need to be defended within 5 feet on the perimeter, while shooting 43% from the FT line -
The effect on the other 4 guys on the court is huge and makes otherwise good players not as good as they can be at basketball...or in effect "MU" bad at basketball.
And I do love how you and the others are already trying to find ways to rationalize your way out of us being better next season...we will be...and it will be because Derrick won't be playing 30-40 minutes every game...Carlino/Dawson/Duane will...and of course as you point out..
MU needs a better performance out of its head coach this upcoming season - which it will get - as Buzz was as bad as a coach could possibly be last year.
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Try This Cause/Effect scenario:
PG is the most important position on the floor in basketball much as QB is in football.
When the most important position on the floor is the weakest link....and by historic proportions - 7% 3 pt shooting, no midrange game, will only shoot at the goal, and doesn't need to be defended within 5 feet on the perimeter, while shooting 43% from the FT line -
The effect on the other 4 guys on the court is huge and makes otherwise good players not as good as they can be at basketball...or in effect "MU" bad at basketball.
And I do love how you and the others are already trying to find ways to rationalize your way out of us being better next season...we will be...and it will be because Derrick won't be playing 30-40 minutes every game...Carlino/Dawson/Duane will...and of course as you point out..
MU needs a better performance out of its head coach this upcoming season - which it will get - as Buzz was as bad as a coach could possibly be last year.
Not rationalizing, its just logic 101.
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I always had more of an affinity towards Captain kirk than Spock.
Not rationalizing, its just logic 101.
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I mostly agree with Ners ... and I still wish he'd can it already.