MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: goinUptown on April 19, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
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Wasn't the essence of what was termed "Hiroshima" on this board that the administration would "clean" things up in terms of not allowing JUCOs (as a matter of course) and raising academic standards for the players? And by replacing Buzz with Wojo, it seems the administration has brought in a coach who will not pursue JUCOs and toe the line on grades. Is this a sort of sea change at MU and in line with the concept of Hiroshima put forth earlier on this board?
goinUptown
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Valid post.
You may be on to something
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Hiroshima was also described as turning our program into SLU (St. Louis U). Posters here freaked out at the concept.
BTW, how did SLU do this year? How did we do this year?
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In one version of the narrative, the events known as Hiroshima did ultimately lead to Buzz leaving.
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Wasn't the essence of what was termed "Hiroshima" on this board that the administration would "clean" things up in terms of not allowing JUCOs (as a matter of course) and raising academic standards for the players? And by replacing Buzz with Wojo, it seems the administration has brought in a coach who will not pursue JUCOs and toe the line on grades. Is this a sort of sea change at MU and in line with the concept of Hiroshima put forth earlier on this board?
goinUptown
Not really. IIRC, Hiroshima was to include player(s) who were eligible to play by NCAA standards, and who had met the standards that they were told they would need to meet beforehand, would be made ineligible due to standards being raised by Marquette and then applied retroactively. This never happened, presumably because cooler heads prevailed.
Pilarz and Larry Williams were known to have dictated changes to Buzz on how some aspects of the program were to be handled, and then fired Buzz's best coaching buddy, Scott Monarch-not for a minor recruiting violation-but for lying about it initially to the athletic department. With Pilarz let go by the BOT and then Larry Williams reportedly losing a power struggle in the athletic department with Buzz, I'm not sure how much of those changes remained in place. In the original Hiroshima scenario, Buzz was supposed to be gone with Pilarz and Larry Williams still standing-the we'll become SLU scenario. Instead, Pilarz and Larry Williams are both gone and Buzz has left anyway-I'll call this result (MAD) mutually assured destruction.
We now live in a hopefully wiser post-apocalyptic world where everyone from the BOT, the University President, the AD, and the Head Basketball Coach have a similar vision that will still allow Marquette to be a major player in Division I basketball.
The End.
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Hiroshima was also described as turning our program into SLU (St. Louis U). Posters here freaked out at the concept.
BTW, how did SLU do this year? How did we do this year?
A SLU basketball program not driven entirely (some remain, but not enough to be virtually the entire rotation) by Rick Majerus recruits is now upon us. We'll see if Jim Crews (who sure as hell can coach) can also recruit enough to keep SLU on the map.
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Bert's Leaving: What we feared
(http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Atom-Bomb.gif)
Bert's Leaving: The reality
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pMC9YV0pXk0/U1Ka_ShnuOI/AAAAAAAAAEA/c-xHLhGk6zc/s1600/funny_animated_gif_999998.gif)
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Bert's Leaving: What we feared
(http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Atom-Bomb.gif)
Bert's Leaving: The reality
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pMC9YV0pXk0/U1Ka_ShnuOI/AAAAAAAAAEA/c-xHLhGk6zc/s1600/funny_animated_gif_999998.gif)
Weren't you the one who had that great mock-up of the Enola Gay with Pilarz's and Larry Williams' heads hanging out the windows?
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I wasn't here at the time but is anyone aware of why Pilarz was summarily discharged? The report I got from people close to the situation is that Pilarz had a bit of a drinking problem and was acting inappropriately with students in the dorm he resided in. I'm not privvy to the details of the inappropriateness but it lead directly to his being let go and the timing of it. It wasn't the result of a power struggle with Buzz, directly anyway. Larry Williamson the other hand, I have no information on his leaving so if someone can fill that part of the story in....
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acting inappropriately with students in the dorm he resided
Male or female...
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Male or female...
Like I said, I don't know the details of the inappropriate actions but it was enough to get him removed immediately.
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Weren't you the one who had that great mock-up of the Enola Gay with Pilarz's and Larry Williams' heads hanging out the windows?
I thought that was Stone Cold...?
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(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/enola.jpg)
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/sij.jpg)
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/tibbets.jpg)
(http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120209/1000/daily_gifdump_97_05.gif)
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Bert's Leaving: What we feared
(http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Atom-Bomb.gif)
Bert's Leaving: The reality
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pMC9YV0pXk0/U1Ka_ShnuOI/AAAAAAAAAEA/c-xHLhGk6zc/s1600/funny_animated_gif_999998.gif)
You are assuming. You haven't seen the product on the floor or whether Wojo can recruit.
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(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/enola.jpg)
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/sij.jpg)
(http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p618/bjamesb85/tibbets.jpg)
(http://img.izismile.com/img/img5/20120209/1000/daily_gifdump_97_05.gif)
Ah, there it is, such memories!
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I thought that was Stone Cold...?
I thought Stone Cold was on hiatus for talking about lips or something
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Wasn't the essence of what was termed "Hiroshima" on this board that the administration would "clean" things up in terms of not allowing JUCOs (as a matter of course) and raising academic standards for the players? And by replacing Buzz with Wojo, it seems the administration has brought in a coach who will not pursue JUCOs and toe the line on grades. Is this a sort of sea change at MU and in line with the concept of Hiroshima put forth earlier on this board?
goinUptown
Nah, that was Chernobyl.
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I thought Stone Cold was on hiatus for talking about lips or something
(http://mapsaboutnothing.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/myanmar.png?w=300&h=225)
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You are assuming. You haven't seen the product on the floor or whether Wojo can recruit.
I assume nothing. You miss the point entirely.
Bert's leaving is a dud
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I thought Stone Cold was on hiatus for talking about lips or something
Apparently, Stone Cold got the Lindsay Lohan type of sentence.....
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I thought Stone Cold was on hiatus for talking about lips or something
I saw an interesting documentary recently on labioplasty. It really illustrates just how corrupt our values have become.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/perfect-vagina/
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I wasn't here at the time but is anyone aware of why Pilarz was summarily discharged? The report I got from people close to the situation is that Pilarz had a bit of a drinking problem and was acting inappropriately with students in the dorm he resided in. I'm not privvy to the details of the inappropriateness but it lead directly to his being let go and the timing of it. It wasn't the result of a power struggle with Buzz, directly anyway. Larry Williamson the other hand, I have no information on his leaving so if someone can fill that part of the story in....
Not at all the truth. Fr. Pilar was let go do to poor alumni relations and very free/excessive spending of the schools money on personal items(travel/remodeling of his apartment).
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I saw an interesting documentary recently on labioplasty. It really illustrates just how corrupt our values have become.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/perfect-vagina/
Interesting...I forgot the Brits use "fanny" differently than we do. LOL
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Interesting...I forgot the Brits use "fanny" differently than we do. LOL
Yea, when visiting relatives in Scotland we were heading off for a trek and my wife asked about a fanny pack. She was rarely ever flustered but when she got the translation from Brit speak she was utterly speechless. I never saw her so red faced.
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Pilarz/Williams banning JUCOs is a complete fabrication. The expectation that they set was that any recruit Marquette signed must be able to graduate by the time their eligibility runs out. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Personally, I feel this is a reasonable expectation.
The reason it got associated with JUCOs is because the policy was started because of a JUCO. There was absolutely ZERO chance that Jae Crowder was going to graduate before his eligibility ran out. He only had two years of eligibility and had less than one one year of accredited college credits. I loved Jae, great player, great human being, but we overlooked his academics to get him in.
People may notice that Jameel McKay, a JUCO, was recruited and signed during the Pilarz/Williams era.
Wojo will recruit whoever he wants. As long as they have the ability to graduate in time....and doesn't do whatever Malek Harris allegedly did
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TAMU Eadgle
Exactly correct on the JUCO situation and Jae's role in the process. The ovelooking of his academic's was the root of the problem. His academic situation and lack of progress caused issues and they should have.
Do you have full story on why McKay actually left? I have heard several different reasons and still confused on his quick trigger departure.
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TAMU Eadgle
Exactly correct on the JUCO situation and Jae's role in the process. The ovelooking of his academic's was the root of the problem. His academic situation and lack of progress caused issues and they should have.
Do you have full story on why McKay actually left? I have heard several different reasons and still confused on his quick trigger departure.
McKay heard he wasn't going to get the minutes he was hoping for and might play a position he didn't want to. Simple as that.
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McKay heard he wasn't going to get the minutes he was hoping for and might play a position he didn't want to. Simple as that.
Does that mean McKay thinks someone lied to him? Or, was McKay not through enough to ask these questions (what position will he play and how many minutes will he get) before he arrived on campus?
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Does that mean McKay thinks someone lied to him? Or, was McKay not through enough to ask these questions (what position will he play and how many minutes will he get) before he arrived on campus?
No idea. I do know he wasn't the only one that was unhappy with what he heard. But he was the only one to transfer.
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No idea. I do know he wasn't the only one that was unhappy with what he heard. But he was the only one to transfer.
I guess I should have been more specific ... I doubt McKay forgot to ask. I'll guess the answers he got did not jive with what he was told after he was on campus and official practice began. Remember, he left a week after midnight madness in October, a week after official practice began.
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Wadesworld
Not sure as simple as that, but you sound to be in the know. I had heard other rumblings that played a role in the transfer. Since you are confident in departure it is good enough for me.
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I know from experience that schools give out 5 year schollies. Why is that different for basketball, MU? wouldn't a, say, 3year scholarship for a JUCO be kosher?
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I think for this board Hiroshima is realizing that going forward Dayton has the better program. Next year Dayton will likely pass us up in all-time wins and may again be in tournament while MU is not.
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I know from experience that schools give out 5 year schollies. Why is that different for basketball, MU? wouldn't a, say, 3year scholarship for a JUCO be kosher?
We had JUCO players stay an extra year to graduate...Blackledge, I think Lott. Assuming they were given some sort of non-basketball scholarship. I'd imagine the feeling is that they are exceptions and most are not going to make getting their education and graduating the priority when their eligibility runs out vs. finding an overseas contract right away.
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I think for this board Hiroshima is realizing that going forward Dayton has the better program. Next year Dayton will likely pass us up in all-time wins and may again be in tournament while MU is not.
When did Dayton become the benchmark? If they are, I wonder if Indiana, Georgetown, Syracuse, Ohio State and Stanford feel the same way? They should according to this logic.
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TAMU Eadgle
Exactly correct on the JUCO situation and Jae's role in the process. The ovelooking of his academic's was the root of the problem. His academic situation and lack of progress caused issues and they should have.
Do you have full story on why McKay actually left? I have heard several different reasons and still confused on his quick trigger departure.
Goose
Spot on. The reality is Crowder went to an unaccredited JC. MU had no business admitting anyone from that school.
Fact is, everyone pays lip service to the concept of student-athletes but admissions are for the latter and not the former. Having said which, the vast majority of kids on DI ships use the opportunity to improve their lives through the classroom.
Marquette letting in Crowder signaled that standards were flexible (which means you no longer have standards.) The cynicism of that move made clear the complexion of Marquette athletics had changed. And even after a series of off-court issues Bert still wanted to take risk with character-challenged recruits.
Hubris and cluelessness are often bedfellows. We should be glad to be rid of Bert.
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Don't know about anyone else, but allowing Wade and Crowder to matriculate might be the best decision and second best decision the admissions department has made in the last 25 years or so in my opinion. Carry on.
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Don't know about anyone else, but allowing Wade and Crowder to matriculate might be the best decision and second best decision the admissions department has made in the last 25 years or so in my opinion. Carry on.
It's not about the specific players but the policy implications of such decisions. Admitting Crowder signaled a departure from the academic integrity Marquette had theretofore insisted upon. At the end of the day Marquette is a University which has a specific mission.
As for specifics, the last I checked neither was graduated from Marquette. Like Bill Gates, they are college drop outs who will not struggle to make ends meet.
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Wadesworld
Not sure as simple as that, but you sound to be in the know. I had heard other rumblings that played a role in the transfer. Since you are confident in departure it is good enough for me.
I am very confident in the information I was given on this one.
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I think for this board Hiroshima is realizing that going forward Dayton has the better program.
Please step out of the mid-90s Cavalier.
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I am very confident in the information I was given on this one.
Ganzer?
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Ganzer?
Done deal
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Goose
Spot on. The reality is Crowder went to an unaccredited JC. MU had no business admitting anyone from that school.
He originally went to a non-accredited JUCO for one year. But he transferred to an accredited JUCO (Howard), earned his associates degree, and met the minimum standards for participation per the NCAA.
But the issues with JUCOs is that they oftentimes will major in something like physical education. But since Marquette doesn't have a PE major, those credits don't count toward any sort of major. So there is no conceivable way that they can earn a degree from Marquette in a reasonable time.
The difference with McKay is that he committed early, and Marquette could help him craft a academic program at Indian Hills that would more easily transfer. So yeah, Marquette cracked down on JUCOs, but I think the reasons were completely understandable.
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I thought it was Pipines and vanVooren.
Ganzer?
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He originally went to a non-accredited JUCO for one year. But he transferred to an accredited JUCO (Howard), earned his associates degree, and met the minimum standards for participation per the NCAA.
But the issues with JUCOs is that they oftentimes will major in something like physical education. But since Marquette doesn't have a PE major, those credits don't count toward any sort of major. So there is no conceivable way that they can earn a degree from Marquette in a reasonable time.
The difference with McKay is that he committed early, and Marquette could help him craft a academic program at Indian Hills that would more easily transfer. So yeah, Marquette cracked down on JUCOs, but I think the reasons were completely understandable.
(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/dc/72/1364656666_7212_emptytomb.jpg?itok=a8oki9vC)
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When did Dayton become the benchmark? If they are, I wonder if Indiana, Georgetown, Syracuse, Ohio State and Stanford feel the same way? They should according to this logic.
We are talking about MU's Hiroshima. I have no idea if posters on their boards down grade Dayton as much as posters do here.
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He originally went to a non-accredited JUCO for one year. But he transferred to an accredited JUCO (Howard), earned his associates degree, and met the minimum standards for participation per the NCAA.
But the issues with JUCOs is that they oftentimes will major in something like physical education. But since Marquette doesn't have a PE major, those credits don't count toward any sort of major. So there is no conceivable way that they can earn a degree from Marquette in a reasonable time.
The difference with McKay is that he committed early, and Marquette could help him craft a academic program at Indian Hills that would more easily transfer. So yeah, Marquette cracked down on JUCOs, but I think the reasons were completely understandable.
Welcome back Sultan
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Wade if you don't put information as the fifth letter of every line of string of 43 straight haikus then it doesn't qualify as inside information around here.
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(http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/dc/72/1364656666_7212_emptytomb.jpg?itok=a8oki9vC)
HE IS RISEN ALLELUIA ALLELUIA
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Welcome back Sultan
Yeah Sultan. Welcome Back.
While some posters may not agree with you, I have never found you full of ass-hattery, douche baggery or jack assery.
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Bert's Leaving: What we feared
(http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Atom-Bomb.gif)
Bert's Leaving: The reality
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pMC9YV0pXk0/U1Ka_ShnuOI/AAAAAAAAAEA/c-xHLhGk6zc/s1600/funny_animated_gif_999998.gif)
A couple of short silent videos are worth a million words, or something like that. Too funny and oh so true.
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TAMU Eadgle
Exactly correct on the JUCO situation and Jae's role in the process. The ovelooking of his academic's was the root of the problem. His academic situation and lack of progress caused issues and they should have.
Do you have full story on why McKay actually left? I have heard several different reasons and still confused on his quick trigger departure.
I heard what WW heard.
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I heard what WW heard.
Walter White?
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Done deal
Source? Hi!
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Walter White?
Wet Willie?
(http://www.puresouthernrock.com/img/wet-willie.jpg)
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Bert's Leaving: What we feared
(http://jesshaines.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Atom-Bomb.gif)
Bert's Leaving: The reality
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pMC9YV0pXk0/U1Ka_ShnuOI/AAAAAAAAAEA/c-xHLhGk6zc/s1600/funny_animated_gif_999998.gif)
Fantastic Keefe. Just fan-fu¢king-tastic
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Wet Willie?
(http://www.puresouthernrock.com/img/wet-willie.jpg)
Keep on Smilin'
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Hiroshima was also described as turning our program into SLU (St. Louis U). Posters here freaked out at the concept.
BTW, how did SLU do this year? How did we do this year?
You really think SLU will maintain any success without Majerus? Have they maintained any success for more than a year or two at a time, every other decade? Biondi was A-OK with that result. The concern was that MU admin would be, too.
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A couple of short silent videos are worth a million words, or something like that. Too funny and oh so true.
That guy looks kind of beefy to be ARVN, but they definitely handle their come to Jesus tools like the ARVN did.
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You really think SLU will maintain any success without Majerus? Have they maintained any success for more than a year or two at a time, every other decade? Biondi was A-OK with that result. The concern was that MU admin would be, too.
They kicked ass for a while in the 90's under Charlie Spoonhour. Had the occasional great year during the 80's under Rich Grawer. They were averaging 17k fans for some time while Spoonhour was the coach.
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Remember watching Larry Hughes go off for about 40 at MU one year.
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You really think SLU will maintain any success without Majerus? Have they maintained any success for more than a year or two at a time, every other decade? Biondi was A-OK with that result. The concern was that MU admin would be, too.
SLU will return to the basement of the A10 next season. I don't think they will emerge from it for years. Posters will change their tune pretty quickly after that. SLU brings a media market and that's about it.
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SLU will return to the basement of the A10 next season. I don't think they will emerge from it for years. Posters will change their tune pretty quickly after that. SLU brings a media market and that's about it.
I disagree. Crews is a good coach.
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I disagree. Crews is a good coach.
You want to take a look at his career record at Evansville and Army before making that statement?
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I disagree. Crews is a good coach.
I don't care how good the coach is. He is losing all 5 starters from this season. He will return only 5 players that saw time in at least half of their games this season, 4 of which averaged less than 13 minutes per game. What is he replacing them with? A bunch of low 3 stars and 2 stars. Could they eventually become good? Maybe, but I don't think any of them will see the tournament in their 4 years. This isn't a high major team that can just reload every year. We are talking about a team that has 9 tournament appearances and has never made it past the round of 32.
Majerus did great work for that team. I really don't think Crews can maintain it.
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He originally went to a non-accredited JUCO for one year. But he transferred to an accredited JUCO (Howard), earned his associates degree, and met the minimum standards for participation per the NCAA.
But the issues with JUCOs is that they oftentimes will major in something like physical education. But since Marquette doesn't have a PE major, those credits don't count toward any sort of major. So there is no conceivable way that they can earn a degree from Marquette in a reasonable time.
The difference with McKay is that he committed early, and Marquette could help him craft a academic program at Indian Hills that would more easily transfer. So yeah, Marquette cracked down on JUCOs, but I think the reasons were completely understandable.
I understand Jae met the minimum standard for admission per the NCAA but that bar is set well below what MU expects. The reality is that Crowder was never going to be graduated from Marquette within the two years eligibility and that set a precedence for the University.
As for incompatible majors I tried to major in Classical Music Studies but couldn't take 8 hours of Horton Roe every day.
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You want to take a look at his career record at Evansville and Army before making that statement?
I know what he's done. And I stand by it. I missed your condescending posts though. Welcome back.
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I understand Jae met the minimum standard for admission per the NCAA but that bar is set well below what MU expects. The reality is that Crowder was never going to be graduated from Marquette within the two years eligibility and that set a precedence for the University.
I agree with this, but this is what you originally said:
"The reality is Crowder went to an unaccredited JC. MU had no business admitting anyone from that school."
At best that was a misleading statement. You left out the part where he went to an accredited Juco in between, and earned his degree.
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I agree with this, but this is what you originally said:
"The reality is Crowder went to an unaccredited JC. MU had no business admitting anyone from that school."
At best that was a misleading statement. You left out the part where he went to an accredited Juco in between, and earned his degree.
Not sure how it was misleading. Crowder went to an unaccredited JUCO which put him way behind the power curve to be graduated when he enrolled at MU. That is a fact and the single biggest reason he was never going to get his degree during his eligibility. And while he did attend an accredited JUCO for his second year that served only to enable him to meet the NCAA minimum standard.
The point is that bringing in Crowder was a statement: Athlete-"Student."
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Not sure how it was misleading.
Because he wasn't admitted from the unaccredited school. He was admitted from Howard.
Seriously, I know you are fluent in a ton of languages, but you may want to work on your English.
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They kicked ass for a while in the 90's under Charlie Spoonhour. Had the occasional great year during the 80's under Rich Grawer. They were averaging 17k fans for some time while Spoonhour was the coach.
In 10 seasons under Grawer, they went to 0 NCAA tournaments and 3 NITs. Not sure I'd characterize any of those seasons as "great."
Spoonhour certainly did better - 3 NCAA bids in 7 seasons - but they won a grand total of 2 NCAA tournament games in that span. They certainly drew in local fans, but I'm not sure I'd agree that they "kicked ass."
I will be interested to see what Crews can do without Rick's recruits.
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Because he wasn't admitted from the unaccredited school. He was admitted from Howard.
Seriously, I know you are fluent in a ton of languages, but you may want to work on your English.
My English is just fine.
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I understand Jae met the minimum standard for admission per the NCAA but that bar is set well below what MU expects. The reality is that Crowder was never going to be graduated from Marquette within the two years eligibility and that set a precedence for the University.
As for incompatible majors I tried to major in Classical Music Studies but couldn't take 8 hours of Horton Roe every day.
Holy crap, did Keefe just admit to a degree he doesn't have?????