MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Hards Alumni on April 19, 2014, 09:11:36 AM
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Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels 4m
Buzz Williams had both Hill & Pierce committed at Marquette. He's off to a tremendous recruiting start obviously.
from Lexington-Fayette, KY
Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels 7m
Satchel Pierce, a three-star center, just committed to Virginia Tech, according to a source.
from Lexington-Fayette, KY
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And this
Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels 13m Ahmed Hill, a top 100 shooting guard in the 2014 class, just committed to Virginia Tech, per a source.
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So, they fall for Brent's schtick not once, but twice? Wow. They must really love Brent to follow him to a sh*thole like Blacksburg.
Seems like Hill is really selling himself short. Could do much better.
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Good luck to Hill, he is a player. He will probably start, average a good amount of points on a team that went 2-16 in ACC play, with both wins over Miami. Maybe thats want he wants, to be the "man" on a losing, depleted program like VaTech, where football is the "man".
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Good luck to Hill, he is a player. He will probably start, average a good amount of points on a team that went 2-16 in ACC play, with both wins over Miami. Maybe thats want he wants, to be the "man" on a losing, depleted program like VaTech, where football is the "man".
More like he's totally buying the b.s. that Brent is shoveling.
Or else he's looking forward to not playing his freshman year and getting yelled at by a sweaty bald guy with baked bean teeth.
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Good luck to Hill, he is a player. He will probably start, average a good amount of points on a team that went 2-16 in ACC play, with both wins over Miami. Maybe thats want he wants, to be the "man" on a losing, depleted program like VaTech, where football is the "man".
I bet VT does better next year, say 5 - 13, and then Hill transfers.
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Brent spent an unprecedented amount of Marquette's recruiting budget getting a commitment from these two players. While he and Chew were on the Marquette payroll they were able to sell themselves to these young players. BW and Chew did their job if not for their employer for themselves. It's character revealed. It should be interesting if their Marquette time recruiting JUCO power forward Willie Atwood will payoff for VPI. You know that story -- even though Marquette didn't have any scholarships available the former MU coaches needed to use a booster's private jet multiple times to go to Oklahoma to recruit Atwood. The excuse was you never know when a scholarship or two or three will open up. You ever feel like you were sold a bill of goods by a couple of snake oil salesmen?
BW knew he was leaving if was just a question of where.
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I cant even hate, Buzz is a great recruiter. Simple as that.
Im just excited to see what Wojo can do!
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So Hill decommits and less than 48 hours signs with Va Tech. It's laughable that people were wishing him the best of luck and blah, blah, blah. He never considered Marquette and knew he was going with Buzz the whole time. Hill is just as phony and full of bs as Brent...I hope they go winless together.
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Former Marquette commits Ahmed Hill, Satchel Pierce follow Buzz Williams to Virginia Tech
Scott Phillips
Apr 19, 2014, 10:30 AM EDT
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/19/former-marquette-commits-ahmed-hill-satchel-pierce-follow-buzz-williams-to-virginia-tech/
Buzz Williams is off to a tremendous start on the recruiting trail at Virginia Tech. After pulling a shocker and switching from Marquette to the ACC program earlier this spring, Williams landed two of his former commits at the Big East school as top-100 shooting guard Ahmed Hill and three-star center Satchel Pierce committed to the Hokies on Saturday morning during their official visits.
The news of the commitments was first reported by Scout.com‘s Evan Daniels.
The 6-foot-4 Hill is regarded as Rivals.com‘s No. 69 player in the 2014 national class and he was one of the best unsigned prospects remaining after recently decommitting from Marquette and being released from his NLI. The native of Augusta, Georgia played for the Southern Stampede in the Nike EYBL and comes from Aquinas High School.
Pierce, a 6-foot-10 center from Kiski School in Saltsburg, Pennsylvania, is a three-star prospect and gives the Hokies an immediate boost on the interior since they lost freshman center Trevor Thompson to transfer this offseason. Pierce played on the grassroots circuit with the Ohio Phenoms.
This type of thing shows that players are committing to play for a head coach just as much as a school as we saw Kingsley Okoroh switch his commitment from Tennessee to Cal when Cuonzo Martin went to the West Coast earlier this week.
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I cant even hate, Buzz is a great recruiter. Simple as that.
Im just excited to see what Wojo can do!
Sounds like he's hot on the trail for some Wisco honkies.
Go get em!
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Brent spent an unprecedented amount of Marquette's recruiting budget getting a commitment from these two players. While he and Chew were on the Marquette payroll they were able to sell themselves to these young players. BW and Chew did their job if not for their employer for themselves. It's character revealed.
So you're saying that our HC and assistant coach worked really hard to recruit two talented players, and somehow this is character revealed? You guys are fishing on this one. It sounds like Buzz and Chew did their job and did it well.
It's telling that these two would follow Buzz to VT. The obviously believe in him and trust the relationship they have developed. Just like Jimmy, Jae, Lazar, DJO, etc.. Good luck to them both. I hope they made the right decision.
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When Buzz was getting Hill here, part of a second straight highly ranked recruiting class, many (including me) were praising him as a good recruiter.
Now that those same recruits are sticking with him, I guess it's time to bash him as a lying jerk with a slimy schtick. Interesting.
Recruiting is salesmanship -- a schtick is necessary, especially at the non-bluebloods. I just hope Wojo develops as successful a schtick as Buzz had. I'm confident he will, in his own way.
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At the end of the day, Hill is ranked #69 and Pierce isn't close to the top 100.
I think MU will survive.
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The nine players left on the current Marquette roster know BW and Chew better than the recruits who have signed with VPI. Have you noticed none of the MU players have expressed an interest in going to Blacksburg? Those two former employees are great headhunters, particularly when they can work with an unlimited recruiting budget. In that area they are some of the best in the business.
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The nine players left on the current Marquette roster know BW and Chew better than the recruits who have signed with VPI. Have you noticed none of the MU players have expressed an interest in going to Blacksburg? Those two former employees are great headhunters, particularly when they can work with an unlimited recruiting budget. In that area they are some of the best in the business.
This is an excellent point. Of course, in the name of objectivity one must point out that it's far easier psychologically to commit to play for a coach than it is to transfer to play for a coach because the incoming frosh doesn't have to sit out an entire year as the transfer does. So you have to REALLY want to play for that coach to transfer to him.
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The nine players left on the current Marquette roster know BW and Chew better than the recruits who have signed with VPI. Have you noticed none of the MU players have expressed an interest in going to Blacksburg? Those two former employees are great headhunters, particularly when they can work with an unlimited recruiting budget. In that area they are some of the best in the business.
This is simply revisionist history. Most of Buzz's former players have nothing but positive things to say about him. Lazar asked if he could continue attending "life lessons" with the team after he was drafted.
Buzz had one bad year, and apparently burned bridges / tarnished some relationships before heading out the door. That doesn't mean that Buzz is just a high paid head hunter that doesn't follow through on his sales pitch about developing players and men. Most former players seem to believe in him.
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It is what it is. Marquette will be fine, we have a much better person now as our coach. I'll be interested to see how much these two contribute next year. With Hill, Va, Tech now has three shooting guards in their 2014 class Why anyone would choose to play hoops at Va. Tech when they had offers from much better schools is beyond me.
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Funny that Buzz is slimy and providing schtick for Hill and Pierce to go to VT.
But we would be singing Wojo's praises if he convinced some of those Dookies to follow him.
Just saying
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Funny that Buzz is slimy and providing schtick for Hill and Pierce to go to VT.
But we would be singing Wojo's praises if he convinced some of those Dookies to follow him.
Just saying
Glad to see you're still president of the Milwaukee chapter of the Brent Williams fan club.
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Are there any top players left in 2014?
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At the end of the day, Hill is ranked #69 and Pierce isn't close to the top 100.
I think MU will survive.
I'm sure ACC schools like 'Cuse, Duke, Louisville, UNC, etc. are quaking in their boots at this news.
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I bet VT does better next year, say 5 - 13, and then Hill transfers after spending most of the season on the bench.
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Are there any top players left in 2014?
Probably not enough to fill three scholarships I wouldn't think. If we fill all three, guess is at least one is a transfer, maybe two. There's certainly a ton of transfer prospects all over deciding on a new school.
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Funny that Buzz is slimy and providing schtick for Hill and Pierce to go to VT.
But we would be singing Wojo's praises if he convinced some of those Dookies to follow him.
Just saying
Everyone is saying that because of Buzz's slimy history. Coach Wojo has no history as a slimebag, his reputation is a polar opposite in fact.
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I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but the whole self serving open letter to MU fans or whatever that was from Hill was a bunch of b.s. IMO. He loved Buzz and Chew, period. Proven today by the coach and bottom feeder school he chose. I don't wish him any ill will, but all that was said about what a classy kid he was based on that, I'm not gullible enough to buy what he tried to peddle.
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The nine players left on the current Marquette roster know BW and Chew better than the recruits who have signed with VPI. Have you noticed none of the MU players have expressed an interest in going to Blacksburg? Those two former employees are great headhunters, particularly when they can work with an unlimited recruiting budget. In that area they are some of the best in the business.
You make another bet with your buddies on Dodds' Board? I thought you looked down on Scoop so why are you posting here? We're the crude, vulgar, uncouth crowd, remember?
I heard Dodds is putting out the cucumber sandwiches so best run along.
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Here's part of the problem with hiring a blue blood assistant - the players that he has relationships are those that are committed to Duke. And they're not leaving K for Wojo, and they're not leaving Duke for MU. This is a bad look for Wojo, and first impressions matter. He's going to have to prove that Buzz severely undercoached this team (likely) to salvage what has been a bad start to the off-season.
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It is what it is. Marquette will be fine, we have a much better person now as our coach. I'll be interested to see how much these two contribute next year. With Hill, Va, Tech now has three shooting guards in their 2014 class Why anyone would choose to play hoops at Va. Tech when they had offers from much better schools is beyond me.
"much better person". How do you know that? cause he looks more like a country club kid?
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Here's part of the problem with hiring a blue blood assistant - the players that he has relationships are those that are committed to Duke. And they're not leaving K for Wojo, and they're not leaving Duke for MU. This is a bad look for Wojo, and first impressions matter. He's going to have to prove that Buzz severely undercoached this team (likely) to salvage what has been a bad start to the off-season.
So your point is we should not have hired Wojo because he could not bring recruits with him?
Are we that short-sighted?
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Here's part of the problem with hiring a blue blood assistant - the players that he has relationships are those that are committed to Duke. And they're not leaving K for Wojo, and they're not leaving Duke for MU. This is a bad look for Wojo, and first impressions matter. He's going to have to prove that Buzz severely undercoached this team (likely) to salvage what has been a bad start to the off-season.
This is true, but it also is a short-term viewpoint.
Hiring an assistant might have cost us a recruit or two this season (or might not have). Hiring a great coach will benefit us for years to come. It is up to Wojo to prove that he is a great coach.
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Are we that short-sighted?
What do you mean?
(http://www.use.com/images/s_2/thick_glasses_13b6941623c255ff400a_1.jpg%3F%253C%25SerialNumber%25%253E)
Where are the damn recruits, WO JO?
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Everyone is saying that because of Buzz's slimy history. Coach Wojo has no history as a slimebag, his reputation is a polar opposite in fact.
Every coach is slimy. You dig into anyone, you will find dirt. I hope Wojo can prove me wrong but it's a hazard of the business.
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Glad to see you're still president of the Milwaukee chapter of the Brent Williams fan club.
Nope. Glad he's gone. All about CoWojo now.
But I'm not a fan of revisionist history and hypocrisy.
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If Hill cant play at least 25-30 MPG at VT something is wrong.....
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But I'm not a fan of revisionist history and hypocrisy.
Hoop??!!
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Frankly I don't understand why MU didn't put restrictions on where these kids could go... ie Big East schools and VT. That seems to be a pretty common practice, isn't it? I get the idea of not holding it against the kids but MU put a LOT of money into recruiting them. Brett should not get the benefit of that expense at another school.
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Frankly I don't understand why MU didn't put restrictions on where these kids could go... ie Big East schools and VT. That seems to be a pretty common practice, isn't it? I get the idea of not holding it against the kids but MU put a LOT of money into recruiting them. Brett should not get the benefit of that expense at another school.
I've heard the rules are different for kids who are yet to set foot on campus.
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Every coach is slimy. You dig into anyone, you will find dirt. I hope Wojo can prove me wrong but it's a hazard of the business.
You didn't have to dig to find it with Buzz, did you?
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I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but the whole self serving open letter to MU fans or whatever that was from Hill was a bunch of b.s. IMO. He loved Buzz and Chew, period. Proven today by the coach and bottom feeder school he chose. I don't wish him any ill will, but all that was said about what a classy kid he was based on that, I'm not gullible enough to buy what he tried to peddle.
Is there something wrong with a recruit loving a school but loving a coaching staff more? It happens during every coaching change. The fact that he apologized is an extremely classy move in my opinion. Most recruits wouldn't even bother. Even if it's not genuine, it's still a classy move.
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You didn't have to dig to find it with Buzz, did you?
No you really didn't need to. He was slimy starting in 2008. No one seemed to mind though until he started losing
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Frankly I don't understand why MU didn't put restrictions on where these kids could go... ie Big East schools and VT. That seems to be a pretty common practice, isn't it? I get the idea of not holding it against the kids but MU put a LOT of money into recruiting them. Brett should not get the benefit of that expense at another school.
It's a terrible PR move. We come off looking like the jilted lover.
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Is there something wrong with a recruit loving a school but loving a coaching staff more?
(http://contents.pep.ph/images2/guide/5d0d334ac.jpg)
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So Buzz got two guys that he already got and he's off to a great start? Who cares? This is fairly common in coaching changes...not unique to MU. I personally dislike Blacksburg, VA. Charlottsville is much nicer. MU is at a slight disadvantage today but will be better off in the long run.
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Soon as Chew signed.....
His under the table work was done.....
Told you guys.....
Too bad Ahmed bought into the whole line of BS.....
The Depaul of the ACC......Please.....
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Frankly I don't understand why MU didn't put restrictions on where these kids could go... ie Big East schools and VT. That seems to be a pretty common practice, isn't it? I get the idea of not holding it against the kids but MU put a LOT of money into recruiting them. Brett should not get the benefit of that expense at another school.
You can't put restrictions on an NLI release.
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I am still not 100% convinced that Hill ends up at Vtech. There is nothing binding him to Vtech as he can't sign another NLI. You don't think if the Harrison twins decide to go in the NBA draft that Ky may be looking for some back court help? Until these kids are enrolled and on campus, they are still free agents.
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Here's part of the problem with hiring a blue blood assistant - the players that he has relationships are those that are committed to Duke. And they're not leaving K for Wojo, and they're not leaving Duke for MU. This is a bad look for Wojo, and first impressions matter. He's going to have to prove that Buzz severely undercoached this team (likely) to salvage what has been a bad start to the off-season.
That was the main problem with hiring an assistant coach like Wojo instead of a head coach like Shaka, Cuonzo Martin, Butt, etc in the short run. An assistant coach is not going to be able to bring his recruits over like a head coach can.
I think we all knew that Butt was going to be bringing over Ahmed Hill and some others with him when he bolted. Wojo well knew that this would happen when he took the Marquette job, so he must have been prepared and ok with the exodus. It also indicates that Wojo is in this for the long haul and that it may take a year or two before Wojo can get his players.
Wojo took the job because of the money at his disposal with the Marquette program and I expect him to use it to it's fullest. Also because Marquette, the Hoyas, St. Johns, Villanova along with Duke and Louisville already use the $100K SportVU advanced tracking system.
http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/03/the-rise-of-expensive-basketball-statistics-is-bad-news-for-cinderellas/359651/
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Funny that Buzz is slimy and providing schtick for Hill and Pierce to go to VT.
But we would be singing Wojo's praises if he convinced some of those Dookies to follow him.
Just saying
TAMU -
I can't believe I'm saying this, but thank you for this post. The landscape and nature of college basketball requires people to get their hands a little dirty. To pretend it doesn't happen is being naive.
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I am still not 100% convinced that Hill ends up at Vtech. There is nothing binding him to Vtech as he can't sign another NLI. You don't think if the Harrison twins decide to go in the NBA draft that Ky may be looking for some back court help? Until these kids are enrolled and on campus, they are still free agents.
UK already has 6-6 205 Devin Booker and point guard Tyler Ulis coming in. Both 5 star Mcdonald's All Americans. Ahmed Hill would probably be below their standards as only a 4 star.
And what does it matter anyway UK, VT, Hill is not going to end up back in the Big East.
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Funny that Buzz is slimy and providing schtick for Hill and Pierce to go to VT.
But we would be singing Wojo's praises if he convinced some of those Dookies to follow him.
Just saying
It's a scenario that wouldn't happen because Wojo was only an assistant coach. It's very rare for an assistant coach to be able to bring any recruits over with him. Just doesn't happen.
No reason to lower Wojo to Butt's level.
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If Hill cant play at least 25-30 MPG at VT something is wrong.....
He should be able to because Buzz will be doing everything he can to win, instead of trying to prove a dumb point to administration - that if he isn't going to be able to recruit some of the questionable character risks he wanted to bring into the fold at MU - then here's what MU will get:
Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, Otule...with the best players riding the bench and other than Mayo - none have any check marks against them in character department: Gardner, Burton, Steve, Dawson, JJJ.
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Why is anyone surprised or faux outraged? For Pierce and Hill, it was about the relationship with Buzz, not the relationship with Marquette. Nick Williams followed Crean to IU. Tyshaun Taylor got his wish and went to Kansas. This is nothing new. They liked Buzz. Quit acting like 13 year old girls.
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He should be able to because Buzz will be doing everything he can to win, instead of trying to prove a dumb point to administration - that if he isn't going to be able to recruit some of the questionable character risks he wanted to bring into the fold at MU - then here's what MU will get:
Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, Otule...with the best players riding the bench and other than Mayo - none have any check marks against them in character department: Gardner, Burton, Steve, Dawson, JJJ.
Agree 1,000%. Hill will play a ton next year because Buzz has no Axe to grind against real or perceived boogeymen. You called it all year. What a shame.
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Hill will play if he is the best player at the position and earns his minutes. Same as at MU under Buzz. Same as MU under Wojo. IMO, on last year's team, only Burton truly deserved more minutes than he got.
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Why is anyone surprised or faux outraged? For Pierce and Hill, it was about the relationship with Buzz, not the relationship with Marquette. Nick Williams followed Crean to IU. Tyshaun Taylor got his wish and went to Kansas. This is nothing new. They liked Buzz. Quit acting like 13 year old girls.
Agree. None of this is surprising.
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He should be able to because Buzz will be doing everything he can to win, instead of trying to prove a dumb point to administration - that if he isn't going to be able to recruit some of the questionable character risks he wanted to bring into the fold at MU - then here's what MU will get:
Derrick, Jake, Juan, Jamil, Otule...with the best players riding the bench and other than Mayo - none have any check marks against them in character department: Gardner, Burton, Steve, Dawson, JJJ.
I've been doing a crapload of travelling for work for the last 4-5 weeks so haven't been keeping up with the whole Buzz leaving saga. Does this have any truth to it or is it just an assumption made by those who have invested a lot of themselves into talking up certain back-up role players?
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The one thing I really wouldn't want to see happen is for Hill to hit a last second shot to beat us in an important game. At Va. Tech he won't be playing in any important games anytime soon.
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The one thing I really wouldn't want to see happen is for Hill to hit a last second shot to beat us in an important game. At Va. Tech he won't be playing in any important games anytime soon.
Fixed.
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I've been doing a crapload of travelling for work for the last 4-5 weeks so haven't been keeping up with the whole Buzz leaving saga. Does this have any truth to it or is it just an assumption made by those who have invested a lot of themselves into talking up certain back-up role players?
Nothing but message board speculation. A few have latched onto this narrative first and then started looking for proof, like any good conspiracy theory. With about as much veracity.
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Agree 1,000%. Hill will play a ton next year because Buzz has no Axe to grind against real or perceived boogeymen. You called it all year. What a shame.
Yeah....it was really sad how Buzz chose to handle last season and his frustrations. I mean taking Burton out of the last game of year in BET with 7 minutes left, when he'd practically dominated X all game was all that needed to be seen to know where his head was. It was such an outlier of a season compared to Buzz's previous track record as coach - you know his head wasn't in it the way it should have been...
And obviously knowing he was gonna leave, he had no real motivation to develop the freshman..
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Why is anyone surprised or faux outraged? For Pierce and Hill, it was about the relationship with Buzz, not the relationship with Marquette. Nick Williams followed Crean to IU. Tyshaun Taylor got his wish and went to Kansas. This is nothing new. They liked Buzz. Quit acting like 13 year old girls.
But that bitch Buzz stole my boyfriend!
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I've been doing a crapload of travelling for work for the last 4-5 weeks so haven't been keeping up with the whole Buzz leaving saga. Does this have any truth to it or is it just an assumption made by those who have invested a lot of themselves into talking up certain back-up role players?
Yes...
Nothing but message board speculation. A few have latched onto this narrative first and then started looking for proof, like any good conspiracy theory. With about as much veracity.
Ironic....kind of like you latching onto this whole premise: Hill will play if he is the best player at the position and earns his minutes. Same as at MU under Buzz. Same as MU under Wojo. IMO, on last year's team, only Burton truly deserved more minutes than he got.
That was a bunch of crap from Buzz...earning the minutes...as was "playing to the scouting report"....because it absolves Buzz of all the criticism for his choice to play the most ineffective backcourt in the Big East.
The reality is he played our PG more minutes than any player on the team and the guy made 1, 3pt shot ALL season long and shot 43% from the FT line and would not attempt a FG outside of 3' unless forced to due to shot clock running down. And, he paired that guy, with Jake, who made I believe, 4, 2pt FG's all season as the 2nd leading minute getter at the "shooting guard" position.
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Ners, we have done this many times. In my opinion. From watching the games. I saw one player on the team that deserved more minutes. Burton. I never saw what you did in Dawson. I saw JJJ make too many moves that I would have pulled junior high girls for making. I completely got what the rotations with the exception of Burton. Buzz leaving has not changed my opinion of the faults of the 13-14 team. That team lost a lot of close games that MU won in the previous 5 years. Buzz's coaching style didn't change. His rotation and reliance on upperclassmen didn't change. His scouting and game planning didn't change. I never once saw a single moment, substitution, play call, that, in that moment, made me think that Buzz wasn't trying or was phoning it in. You can do message board circle jerk all you want to create this conspiracy theory, but in the end, Dawson and JJJ didn't deserve more minutes.
I saw a coach trying something he had never done before, flash cards for the defense so they would know which pick and roll defense they were in. I saw him come up with a new offense at halftime of one game, setting double high screens for Mayo to come around. I saw him coaching his butt off to get MU into so many OT games down the stretch that didn't go MU's way. All you saw was Derrick Wilson. And because that was the only tree you could focus on, you missed the entire rest of the forest.
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Yes...
Ironic....kind of like you latching onto this whole premise:
That was a bunch of crap from Buzz...earning the minutes...as was "playing to the scouting report"....because it absolves Buzz of all the criticism for his choice to play the most ineffective backcourt in the Big East.
The reality is he played our PG more minutes than any player on the team and the guy made 1, 3pt shot ALL season long and shot 43% from the FT line and would not attempt a FG outside of 3' unless forced to due to shot clock running down. And, he paired that guy, with Jake, who made I believe, 4, 2pt FG's all season as the 2nd leading minute getter at the "shooting guard" position.
Thomas made 76 shots, 67 of which were 3 pointers. I don't know what is more amazing, Thomas only making 9 two point shots or Derrick making only one 3 pointer.
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Hill will play if he is the best player at the position and earns his minutes. Same as at MU under Buzz. Same as MU under Wojo. IMO, on last year's team, only Burton truly deserved more minutes than he got.
Burton, JJJ and Dawson all deserved more minutes than what they got
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Good luck to Hill, he is a player. He will probably start, average a good amount of points on a team that went 2-16 in ACC play, with both wins over Miami. Maybe thats want he wants, to be the "man" on a losing, depleted program like VaTech, where football is the "man".
Being a freshman, Hill will play about six minutes a game and grow sick of Buzz's crap about two-thirds through the season.
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Thomas made 76 shots, 67 of which were 3 pointers. I don't know what is more amazing, Thomas only making 9 two point shots or Derrick making only one 3 pointer.
I would say Thomas making only 9 two point shots. Remember he won the slam dunk contest two years ago.
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Being a freshman, Hill will play about six minutes a game and grow sick of Buzz's crap about two-thirds through the season.
Ordinarily true, probably not next year, as all of these players are new to Buzz and no one probably has an advantage.
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I'm not getting bent out of shape by this:
Jamail Jones - #52 Rivals
Ahmed Hill - #69 Rivals
Wojo needs more than a few weeks to make things happen!
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Hill will play a lot. VPI backcourt is pretty thin. Time will tell if Pierce makes it through the summer tryout. For his sake, I hope he does.
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Nope. Glad he's gone. All about CoWojo now.
But I'm not a fan of revisionist history and hypocrisy.
This post sums up my position perfectly.
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I'm not getting bent out of shape by this:
Jamail Jones - #52 Rivals
Ahmed Hill - #69 Rivals
Wojo needs more than a few weeks to make things happen!
Let me remind you if Buzz stayed all the recruits come but we have a mass exodus of existing players.
Wojo managed to keep every existing player and because of that, even losing the recruiting class (save Cohen) we will be a better team next year than if buzz stayed kept the recruits and lost JJJ, Taylor and maybe more.
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Hill will play a lot. VPI backcourt is pretty thin. Time will tell if Pierce makes it through the summer tryout. For his sake, I hope he does.
The two holdovers in Va. Tech's class are both shooting guards, one whom in rated #70 by ESPN.
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Ok guys, im slow. What does VPI stand for?
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Ners, we have done this many times. In my opinion. From watching the games. I saw one player on the team that deserved more minutes. Burton. I never saw what you did in Dawson. I saw JJJ make too many moves that I would have pulled junior high girls for making. I completely got what the rotations with the exception of Burton. Buzz leaving has not changed my opinion of the faults of the 13-14 team. That team lost a lot of close games that MU won in the previous 5 years. Buzz's coaching style didn't change. His rotation and reliance on upperclassmen didn't change. His scouting and game planning didn't change. I never once saw a single moment, substitution, play call, that, in that moment, made me think that Buzz wasn't trying or was phoning it in. You can do message board circle jerk all you want to create this conspiracy theory, but in the end, Dawson and JJJ didn't deserve more minutes.
I saw a coach trying something he had never done before, flash cards for the defense so they would know which pick and roll defense they were in. I saw him come up with a new offense at halftime of one game, setting double high screens for Mayo to come around. I saw him coaching his butt off to get MU into so many OT games down the stretch that didn't go MU's way. All you saw was Derrick Wilson. And because that was the only tree you could focus on, you missed the entire rest of the forest.
I know we went around and around on last season...think it all proved itself out as far as what was going on. I'm not going to change your mind, you aren't going to change mine. At the end of the day...you have to perform on the basketball court to earn minutes. I'm not sure what you see in Derrick, and can't see in Dawson to not think Dawson deserved more minutes...or JJJ for that matter. I saw two guys in JJJ and Dawson who have far more potential than did Derrick and Jake....and they got scraps...all the while the team scuffled to a 17-15 mark missing the freaking NIT..after being picked to win Big East.
Here's the deal: I'll wager you that MU will be better than 17-15 next season...and this is with full knowledge that we lost our best big man since Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Otule, and of course Jake (which will prove to be addition by subtraction)... We'll be small up front. Will likely only have Cohen as a freshman on the team. ZERO reason for the team to be better next season than what it was last season...yet I"m completely banking on Wojo to play the guys who give him the best chance to win max minutes....and the team will exceed 17-15.
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Ok guys, im slow. What does VPI stand for?
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, popularly known as Virginia Tech.
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Why? Don't they know Brett doesn't give playing time to freshmen?
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I know we went around and around on last season...think it all proved itself out as far as what was going on. I'm not going to change your mind, you aren't going to change mine. At the end of the day...you have to perform on the basketball court to earn minutes. I'm not sure what you see in Derrick, and can't see in Dawson to not think Dawson deserved more minutes...or JJJ for that matter. I saw two guys in JJJ and Dawson who have far more potential than did Derrick and Jake....and they got scraps...all the while the team scuffled to a 17-15 mark missing the freaking NIT..after being picked to win Big East.
Here's the deal: I'll wager you that MU will be better than 17-15 next season...and this is with full knowledge that we lost our best big man since Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Otule, and of course Jake (which will prove to be addition by subtraction)... We'll be small up front. Will likely only have Cohen as a freshman on the team. ZERO reason for the team to be better next season than what it was last season...yet I"m completely banking on Wojo to play the guys who give him the best chance to win max minutes....and the team will exceed 17-15.
I would add the returning players will have a chip on their shoulders next year (particularly JJJ, ST, Jr. and Dawson) and be out to prove they're better than 17-15 and were badly coached to that record.
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Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, popularly known as Virginia Tech.
Thanks
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My source has confirmed that John Groce will be meeting with Nick Noskowiak today.
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Let me remind you if Buzz stayed all the recruits come but we have a mass exodus of existing players.
Wojo managed to keep every existing player and because of that, even losing the recruiting class (save Cohen) we will be a better team next year than if buzz stayed kept the recruits and lost JJJ, Taylor and maybe more.
Actualy, past history suggests a strong liklihood that one of the new players would be gone before the start of the season.
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Ok guys, im slow. What does VPI stand for?
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/538597388/vagina_tech_athletics_dept_te_large_thermos_bottle.jpg?color=StainlessSteel&height=460&width=460&qv=90)
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/538597385/vagina_tech_athletics_dept_te_thermos_can_cooler.jpg?color=StainlessSteel&height=460&width=460&qv=90)
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Does Hill = Nick Williams? Talented, follows coach to lesser school, and then becomes disenchanted?
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Let me remind you if Buzz stayed all the recruits come but we have a mass exodus of existing players.
Wojo managed to keep every existing player and because of that, even losing the recruiting class (save Cohen) we will be a better team next year than if buzz stayed kept the recruits and lost JJJ, Taylor and maybe more.
+1
Exactly! I'd rather have know entities (JJJ & STJ) than potentially good players who may not play well at the college level. Wojo keeping every returning player is unusual and a credit to him. It's up to Wojo to get things built up from there. That's the point I was trying to make with the Jamail comparison. He was ranked even hight than Hill but it didn't work out. Let's develop our own Warriors!
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Is there something wrong with a recruit loving a school but loving a coaching staff more? It happens during every coaching change. The fact that he apologized is an extremely classy move in my opinion. Most recruits wouldn't even bother. Even if it's not genuine, it's still a classy move.
How is it a classy move if it's not genuine? Then it's a slimeball move...why even bother if you don't mean it. I bet Brent wrote the letter for him and told him to pass it off as his own.
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Does Hill = Nick Anderson? Talented, follows coach to lesser school, and then becomes disenchanted?
I see what you did there....
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Does Hill = Nick Anderson? Talented, follows coach to lesser school, and then becomes disenchanted?
Nick Williams?
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How is it a classy move if it's not genuine? Then it's a slimeball move...why even bother if you don't mean it. I bet Brent wrote the letter for him and told him to pass it off as his own.
How do you know what his intentions are? What is not genuine about what he said? Did he not say he committed to MU because of his relationship with Buzz and Chew and they are now gone? Is he not now committing to Buzz and Chew? What is insincere about that? Whether you think giving a fanbase an explanation as to why you are decommitting from the school is classy or not is your opinion, but he's certainly handling it more maturely than you are. I don't know how old you are, but you sound like a butthurt 4 year old saying he wasn't sincere with what he said. How would you know? If anything, telling us he committed to MU because of his relationship with those 2 coaches and then committing to them at VT confirms what he said. Grow up.
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How do you know what his intentions are? What is not genuine about what he said? Did he not say he committed to MU because of his relationship with Buzz and Chew and they are now gone? Is he not now committing to Buzz and Chew? What is insincere about that? Whether you think giving a fanbase an explanation as to why you are decommitting from the school is your opinion, but he's certainly handling it more maturely than you are. I don't know how old you are, but you sound like a butthurt 4 year old saying he wasn't sincere with what he said. How would you know? If anything, telling us he committed to MU because of his relationship with those 2 coaches and then committing to them at VT confirms what he said. Grow up.
Exactly.
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So Hill decommits and less than 48 hours signs with Va Tech. It's laughable that people were wishing him the best of luck and blah, blah, blah. He never considered Marquette and knew he was going with Buzz the whole time. Hill is just as phony and full of bs as Brent...I hope they go winless together.
"I hope they go winless together."
That's too bad because they won't, so I guess that you'll be frustrated. I'm not saying that they'll win the ACC, but Buzz has shown that with some talent, he can be dangerous.
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GO HOKIES!
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GO HOKIES!
Go where?
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We'll see how Hill pans out with two other shooting guards in the same recruiting class. I know we all wanted Hill to stick with MU, but while he may turn out to be a good player, he's definitely replaceable recruiting wise. We currently have three players on the team (JJJ, Fischer and Burton) that were more highly rated than Hill and one (Du. Wilson) rated about the same. As a fanbase we need to move on and look forward to what's ahead.
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GO HOKIES!
Welcome to MUScoop, Bert! You will not be forgotten here!
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How do you know what his intentions are? What is not genuine about what he said? Did he not say he committed to MU because of his relationship with Buzz and Chew and they are now gone? Is he not now committing to Buzz and Chew? What is insincere about that? Whether you think giving a fanbase an explanation as to why you are decommitting from the school is classy or not is your opinion, but he's certainly handling it more maturely than you are. I don't know how old you are, but you sound like a butthurt 4 year old saying he wasn't sincere with what he said. How would you know? If anything, telling us he committed to MU because of his relationship with those 2 coaches and then committing to them at VT confirms what he said. Grow up.
I don't know what his intentions were in writing that. If it wasn't sincere, I said I disagree that it was classy regardless. I don't think it's classy if it was insincere. You think you are the voice of reason on this board and you're not. Why don't you read what I responded to before jumping to conclusions? Oh, you are always right so you don't need to bother...telling other grown men to grow up, get a life.
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I know we went around and around on last season...think it all proved itself out as far as what was going on. I'm not going to change your mind, you aren't going to change mine. At the end of the day...you have to perform on the basketball court to earn minutes. I'm not sure what you see in Derrick, and can't see in Dawson to not think Dawson deserved more minutes...or JJJ for that matter. I saw two guys in JJJ and Dawson who have far more potential than did Derrick and Jake....and they got scraps...all the while the team scuffled to a 17-15 mark missing the freaking NIT..after being picked to win Big East.
Here's the deal: I'll wager you that MU will be better than 17-15 next season...and this is with full knowledge that we lost our best big man since Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Otule, and of course Jake (which will prove to be addition by subtraction)... We'll be small up front. Will likely only have Cohen as a freshman on the team. ZERO reason for the team to be better next season than what it was last season...yet I"m completely banking on Wojo to play the guys who give him the best chance to win max minutes....and the team will exceed 17-15.
it's a little unfair because marquette could be worse than last year and still have a better record with a softer OOC schedule. At least compare the BE record for a more fair comparison even though it won't be completely perfect.
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Glad to see you're still president of the Milwaukee chapter of the Brent Williams fan club.
The guy is on his knees in front of Buzz with mouth agape.
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Every coach is slimy. You dig into anyone, you will find dirt. I hope Wojo can prove me wrong but it's a hazard of the business.
Not true. Simply not true. But considering you offer this as an excuse to defend Buzz, nice try.
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I don't know what his intentions were in writing that. If it wasn't sincere, I said I disagree that it was classy regardless. I don't think it's classy if it was insincere. You think you are the voice of reason on this board and you're not. Why don't you read what I responded to before jumping to conclusions? Oh, you are always right so you don't need to bother...telling other grown men to grow up, get a life.
So the whole "I bet Brent wrote the letter for him and told him to pass it off as his own" thing was you saying you weren't sure if Hill's intentions were genuine or not. Pretty weird thing to throw in there if you weren't accusing him of not being genuine with it ::). Maybe think (use some reason? I can help you with that) before you write that next time then.
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Being a freshman, Hill will play about six minutes a game and grow sick of Buzz's crap about two-thirds through the season.
Unless he plays 19-20 minutes, as freshmen Vander Blue and Todd Mayo did.
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I know we went around and around on last season...think it all proved itself out as far as what was going on. I'm not going to change your mind, you aren't going to change mine. At the end of the day...you have to perform on the basketball court to earn minutes. I'm not sure what you see in Derrick, and can't see in Dawson to not think Dawson deserved more minutes...or JJJ for that matter. I saw two guys in JJJ and Dawson who have far more potential than did Derrick and Jake....and they got scraps...all the while the team scuffled to a 17-15 mark missing the freaking NIT..after being picked to win Big East.
Here's the deal: I'll wager you that MU will be better than 17-15 next season...and this is with full knowledge that we lost our best big man since Robert Jackson, Jamil Wilson, Otule, and of course Jake (which will prove to be addition by subtraction)... We'll be small up front. Will likely only have Cohen as a freshman on the team. ZERO reason for the team to be better next season than what it was last season...yet I"m completely banking on Wojo to play the guys who give him the best chance to win max minutes....and the team will exceed 17-15.
I don't know if Dawson and JJJ "deserved" more minutes or not. But I'm pretty sure Derrick and Jake didn't "deserve" the minutes they got.
I certainly would have played Dawson and JJJ -- and obviously Deonte -- more because what we had wasn't working very well.
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How is it a classy move if it's not genuine? Then it's a slimeball move...why even bother if you don't mean it. I bet Brent wrote the letter for him and told him to pass it off as his own.
You have never had to make a decision that you knew would hurt someone? In case you haven't, it sucks. But sometimes you have to do what is best for you even if others will be disappointed in that decision. I don't know about you, but when I hurt or disappoint someone, I apologize, even if I know I made the right decision.
The fact that you would call this kid a slimeball, disingenuous, and accuse someone else of making the apology for him just because he apologized for disappointing us....that is unbelievably petty and small.
Hill had to make a decision. The school, or the coach. He valued both. He decided the coach was more important. That doesn't mean he didn't value the school. Hill took weeks to make this decision.
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The guy is on his knees in front of Buzz with mouth agape.
You may never call people names but you find interesting ways to tear people down when they don't agree with you. Aren't you the one who always complains about people resorting to name calling when they can't prove a point?
Sad thing is, I agree with you. When posters devolve into name callers it taints good discussion. It's a lazy move by a small man to try and make himself look superior on the internet.
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Not true. Simply not true. But considering you offer this as an excuse to defend Buzz, nice try.
Trust me, there is. Not as stinky as Buzz's. But no coach is completly clean. Everyone of them commits recruiting violations. Some are Monarch level and some are Calipari level. But they all do it.
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You have never had to make a decision that you knew would hurt someone? In case you haven't, it sucks. But sometimes you have to do what is best for you even if others will be disappointed in that decision. I don't know about you, but when I hurt or disappoint someone, I apologize, even if I know I made the right decision.
The fact that you would call this kid a slimeball, disingenuous, and accuse someone else of making the apology for him just because he apologized for disappointing us....that is unbelievably petty and small.
Hill had to make a decision. The school, or the coach. He valued both. He decided the coach was more important. That doesn't mean he didn't value the school. Hill took weeks to make this decision.
Didn't call the kid a slimeball, called it a slimeball move if he wasn't sincere with his letter. Thought it then and still think it now. I can't stand people being fake, so I don't think you put out a letter unless you mean it. Maybe he really does mean what he said. I personally don't think he did and find it funny that 36 hours after posting it he was committed to Va Tech. My opinion doesn't mean jack squat, just sharing it on a message board. I will agree with you that my comment about Buzz writing the letter for him was very petty and not very well thought out.
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You may never call people names but you find interesting ways to tear people down when they don't agree with you. Aren't you the one who always complains about people resorting to name calling when they can't prove a point?
Sad thing is, I agree with you. When posters devolve into name callers it taints good discussion. It's a lazy move by a small man to try and make himself look superior on the internet.
Aren't you name calling as well when you call him a small lazy man?
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You may never call people names but you find interesting ways to tear people down when they don't agree with you. Aren't you the one who always complains about people resorting to name calling when they can't prove a point?
Sad thing is, I agree with you. When posters devolve into name callers it taints good discussion. It's a lazy move by a small man to try and make himself look superior on the internet.
TAMU, why bother with willie? He is a joyless mope who defines "fan" as "one who tears down the team he supposedly likes." I put him on ignore and it has made my Scoop experience much more pleasing.
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TAMU, why bother with willie? He is a joyless mope who defines "fan" as "one who tears down the team he supposedly likes." I put him on ignore and it has made my Scoop experience much more pleasing.
I do because when he focuses on real posts he has some good stuff....it's very few and far between
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Aren't you name calling as well when you call him a small lazy man?
I didn't call Willie a name. I implied it. Which by WW standards seems to be ok.
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You may never call people names but you find interesting ways to tear people down when they don't agree with you. Aren't you the one who always complains about people resorting to name calling when they can't prove a point?
Sad thing is, I agree with you. When posters devolve into name callers it taints good discussion. It's a lazy move by a small man to try and make himself look superior on the internet.
trying to look superior on the internet is what you do eagle. maybe if you would lay off your weak defense of Bozo, you would do better. Example: Implying that every coach that takes a job tries to get other players they had recruited to their prior school is pure speculation by you, and simply is not true. Not saying that some do not do it, because they do, but some also have ethics, much more than your boy El Bozo, who you jump to defend at every opportunity. We can make a truce: You love Buzz all you want, while others, including myself think he is a phony slimeball douche. Wear the blinders and continue to dream. Buzz was unethical while at MU and continued it when he left. Just the facts Ma'am.
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Ners, we have done this many times. In my opinion. From watching the games. I saw one player on the team that deserved more minutes. Burton. I never saw what you did in Dawson. I saw JJJ make too many moves that I would have pulled junior high girls for making. I completely got what the rotations with the exception of Burton. Buzz leaving has not changed my opinion of the faults of the 13-14 team. That team lost a lot of close games that MU won in the previous 5 years. Buzz's coaching style didn't change. His rotation and reliance on upperclassmen didn't change. His scouting and game planning didn't change. I never once saw a single moment, substitution, play call, that, in that moment, made me think that Buzz wasn't trying or was phoning it in. You can do message board circle jerk all you want to create this conspiracy theory, but in the end, Dawson and JJJ didn't deserve more minutes.
I saw a coach trying something he had never done before, flash cards for the defense so they would know which pick and roll defense they were in. I saw him come up with a new offense at halftime of one game, setting double high screens for Mayo to come around. I saw him coaching his butt off to get MU into so many OT games down the stretch that didn't go MU's way. All you saw was Derrick Wilson. And because that was the only tree you could focus on, you missed the entire rest of the forest.
I saw things differently as did many others. Your opinion is no more valid than Ners', just different. Your circlejerk compadres are just different. Overuse of spaces doesn't make your observations any better.
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Ok guys, im slow. What does VPI stand for?
Visible Panty Indentation.
(http://cdn.madamenoire.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/panty-line2.jpg)
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trying to look superior on the internet is what you do eagle. maybe if you would lay off your weak defense of Bozo, you would do better. Example: Implying that every coach that takes a job tries to get other players they had recruited to their prior school is pure speculation by you, and simply is not true. Not saying that some do not do it, because they do, but some also have ethics, much more than your boy El Bozo, who you jump to defend at every opportunity. We can make a truce: You love Buzz all you want, while others, including myself think he is a phony slimeball douche. Wear the blinders and continue to dream. Buzz was unethical while at MU and continued it when he left. Just the facts Ma'am.
Since you are interested in "just the facts", I went ahead and took out your opinions. Sorry if I missed some, but there were a lot.
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I certainly would have played Dawson and JJJ -- and obviously Deonte -- more because what we had wasn't working very well.
Exactly the argument many of us made last year. The constant comeback was, "they don't work hard in practice". I don't believe that, nor do I think that is a viable argument. Play the best players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis (ftp://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5-iJUuPWis)
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Your argument assumes that Buzz didn't. It assumes the theory that Buzz stuck to the same kind of rotation he had for the previous 5 years (primarily upperclassmen) out of spite. It assumes that the freshmen's lack of understanding of Buzz's defensive rotations and offensive reads (too complicated? A different debate) was easily overcome by their superior physical skill. It assumes that because the product on the floor did not match the standards of the previous 5 years, by definition, the guys on the bench would have made things better.
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Your argument assumes that Buzz didn't. It assumes the theory that Buzz stuck to the same kind of rotation he had for the previous 5 years (primarily upperclassmen) out of spite. It assumes that the freshmen's lack of understanding of Buzz's defensive rotations and offensive reads (too complicated? A different debate) was easily overcome by their superior physical skill. It assumes that because the product on the floor did not match the standards of the previous 5 years, by definition, the guys on the bench would have made things better.
We don't know the reason - but there is NO Doubt that Buzz coached terrible last season. This was a pre-season Top 25 team that was projected to win the BE. They not only didn't do that, but would have been below .500 if not for the incredible cupcakes on the schedule.
Derrick Wilson aside, some of the coaching moves were astoundingly mind-boggling. Dawson - benched after his best game of the year against Georgetown; Burton - benched for the last 5 minutes in the midst of his best game. Taylor - benched, well... just benched.
All this going on while Wilson and Thomas almost never were off the floor. - regardless of how they were playing in any individual game.
Buzz was awful last year. Your defense flies with no one.
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Since you are interested in "just the facts", I went ahead and took out your opinions. Sorry if I missed some, but there were a lot.
Thanks. I notice that you left in that he is a slimeball douche, which is most definitely a fact.
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Your argument assumes that Buzz didn't. It assumes the theory that Buzz stuck to the same kind of rotation he had for the previous 5 years (primarily upperclassmen) out of spite. It assumes that the freshmen's lack of understanding of Buzz's defensive rotations and offensive reads (too complicated? A different debate) was easily overcome by their superior physical skill. It assumes that because the product on the floor did not match the standards of the previous 5 years, by definition, the guys on the bench would have made things better.
They sure as hell could not have made it worse. Let's face it--Otule should have played about 10 minutes per game; same with De. Wilson. Anderson should not have seen the light of day from the bench end. The one that should have sat much more was Derrick, as he affected many games negatively.
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They sure as hell could not have made it worse. Let's face it--Otule should have played about 10 minutes per game; same with De. Wilson. Anderson should not have seen the light of day from the bench end. The one that should have sat much more was Derrick, as he affected many games negatively.
And who plays the other 30 minutes per game at point if Derrick only plays 10 minutes/game? At least Chris had somebody else ready to be on the court at his position, so you can make that argument logically. Juan only saw 13 minutes/game, so I guess give Steve those 3 minutes? Or give 3 more to Jamil who didn't do much while on the court (at least not when it meant something)? So I guess you can make the claim that 10 minutes/game (7 of OTule's and 3 of Juan's) were given to the wrong guys, but who plays for Derrick?
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Since you are interested in "just the facts", I went ahead and took out your opinions. Sorry if I missed some, but there were a lot.
That's a fun game. I might try that myself.
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And who plays the other 30 minutes per game at point if Derrick only plays 10 minutes/game? At least Chris had somebody else ready to be on the court at his position, so you can make that argument logically. Juan only saw 13 minutes/game, so I guess give Steve those 3 minutes? Or give 3 more to Jamil who didn't do much while on the court (at least not when it meant something)? So I guess you can make the claim that 10 minutes/game (7 of OTule's and 3 of Juan's) were given to the wrong guys, but who plays for Derrick?
That's an easy answer...Dawson plays the other 30 minutes. He probably gives us 9 pts, 5 assists, and 3 rebounds a game. 75% from the line and 35% from 3. That's the guy who should've played 30 minutes a game!
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That's an easy answer...Dawson plays the other 30 minutes. He probably gives us 9 pts, 5 assists, and 3 rebounds a game. 75% from the line and 35% from 3. That's the guy who should've played 30 minutes a game!
There are 2 sides to a basketball court.
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There are 2 sides to a basketball court.
ah yes, the mythical freshman phantom defense ::) our defense was terrible last year no matter who was on the court. Derrick was not a great defender and could be argued wasn't even a good defender last year. Just because they're freshman, doesn't mean they don't play any defense. Stat wise, Burton was our best defender last year.
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ah yes, the mythical freshman phantom defense ::) our defense was terrible last year no matter who was on the court. Derrick was not a great defender and could be argued wasn't even a good defender last year. Just because they're freshman, doesn't mean they don't play any defense. Stat wise, Burton was our best defender last year.
Yeah, he was only 2nd in the Big East in steals last year. Awful. Brutal defender.
Like I said, John Dawson will be a solid contributer and will be a better player than Derrick Wilson by the time he is done at Marquette, but John Dawson would not have been in the top 5 in steals, assists, and assist:turnover ratio in the Big East last year. He had a nice game against Georgetown, and...not a whole lot else. Respect the process, he will grow as a player.
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That's an easy answer...Dawson plays the other 30 minutes. He probably gives us 9 pts, 5 assists, and 3 rebounds a game. 75% from the line and 35% from 3. That's the guy who should've played 30 minutes a game!
Given that Dawson's averages only project him to get 6 points, 3 assists and 3.3 rebounds (you got one!) per 30 minutes and he only shot 26.9% from 3...I don't know if your numbers are accurate. They kind of seem made up.
Not even Cadougan, a 4 year, top 100 recruit, could put up those kind of numbers as a senior. And he had much better players around him. What makes you think Dawson would be able to walk in and do all that?
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Yeah, he was only 2nd in the Big East in steals last year. Awful. Brutal defender.
Like I said, John Dawson will be a solid contributer and will be a better player than Derrick Wilson by the time he is done at Marquette, but John Dawson would not have been in the top 5 in steals, assists, and assist:turnover ratio in the Big East last year. He had a nice game against Georgetown, and...not a whole lot else. Respect the process, he will grow as a player.
Because the opposing offenses had THAT many touches! lol
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Given that Dawson's averages only project him to get 6 points, 3 assists and 3.3 rebounds (you got one!) per 30 minutes and he only shot 26.9% from 3...I don't know if your numbers are accurate. They kind of seem made up.
Not even Cadougan, a 4 year, top 100 recruit, could put up those kind of numbers as a senior. And he had much better players around him. What makes you think Dawson would be able to walk in and do all that?
Those are the numbers I would project him to average given 30 minutes a game. Consistent minutes would improve his numbers more than they would project in my opinion. Hard to be consistent in 2 minute stretches. Also feel Dawson is more gifted offensively than Junior.
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Those are the numbers I would project him to average given 30 minutes a game. Consistent minutes would improve his numbers more than they would project in my opinion.
Or would they go down? Dawson got to play most of his minutes against crappy non-con opponents. He could only manage the 2 ppg/1 apg average. If he had to play against tougher defenses, wouldn't the numbers get worse? You also expect a 10% jump in 3P%?
Hard to be consistent in 2 minute stretches.
"Ah yes, the mythical freshmen phantom defense can't play well without 5 minute stretches." While there is some truth to this there are also counterbalances to it. Typically, players who play less have exaggerated stat averages, not the other way around.
Also feel Dawson is more gifted offensively than Junior.
Guess all the recruiters and coaches got it wrong then. It's possible but it seems more like wishful thinking.
I'm not saying that Dawson wouldn't have put up ok numbers. But the numbers you predicted would have made him one of the top PGs in the BEast. Check it.
Bryce Cotton: 21.8 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, .367 3P
Markel Starks: 17.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg, .326 3P
Brandon Young: 16.3 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, .254 3P
John Dawson (according to you): 9 ppg, 3 rpg, 5 apg, .350 3P
Austin Chatman: 8.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.4 apg, .389 3P
Ryan Arcidiacano: 9.9 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3.5 apg, .345 3P
Rysheed Jordan: 9.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.0 apg, .279 3P
Dee Davis: 7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 4.7 apg, .372 3P
Alex Barlow: 6.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.5 apg, .376 3P
Jaren Sina: 6.0 pg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg, .382 3P
So according to you, Buzz was sitting the 4th best PG in the BEast. Only Cotton, Starks, and Young, three 4 year seniors who have been studs for multiple seasons, are better than he is. Dawson is better than Rysheed Jordan who was a 5 star recruit and BE freshman of the year candidate. He is also better than Ryan Arcidiacano who was a 4 star recruit and BE freshmen of the year candidate last season. Dawson also would have been 2nd in the BEast for assists. How lucky we are to have such a great floor general on our bench!
Look, I like Dawson, but he is not an elite PG YET. He may become one. But last season he was a promising backup. That's about it. You may think he is better than Derrick, that is a valid opinion. But let's not think that we have Kyrie Irving or even Brandon Young sitting on our bench. It's backup QB syndrome.
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Unless he plays 19-20 minutes, as freshmen Vander Blue and Todd Mayo did.
Much more likely he will ride the pines, as Burton, JJJ, Jamal Ferguson, Jamail Jones, Mbao, etc. did under the Buzzard.
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Much more likely he will ride the pines, as Burton, JJJ, Jamal Ferguson, Jamail Jones, Mbao, etc. did under the Buzzard.
Ferguson, Jones, and Mbao all needed to transfer to awful programs to find minutes And Mbao didn't even get meaningful minutes. So it's probably good the rod the pines. Burton probably not, jury is out on JJJ.
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Much more likely he will ride the pines, as Burton, JJJ, Jamal Ferguson, Jamail Jones, Mbao, etc. did under the Buzzard.
It's a different dynamic at Va Tech. The incoming freshmen will be Buzz's guys, and the upperclassmen aren't. I think he is more likely to give the freshmen more PT because he hasn't invested the time and effort into developing the upper classmen.
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It's a different dynamic at Va Tech. The incoming freshmen will be Buzz's guys, and the upperclassmen aren't. I think he is more likely to give the freshmen more PT because he hasn't invested the time and effort into developing the upper classmen.
It's simple. Whoever claps the most in practice, will play.
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Dont care about these guys anymore. They will not be going to MU and were never here. Will not cheer for or against them and sure as hell wont track their progress and stats. I suggest others start to do the same and not care about AH SP and MS.
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I'm not saying that Dawson wouldn't have put up ok numbers. But the numbers you predicted would have made him one of the top PGs in the BEast. Check it.
Bryce Cotton: 21.8 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, .367 3P
Markel Starks: 17.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.1 apg, .326 3P
Brandon Young: 16.3 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.5 apg, .254 3P
John Dawson (according to you): 9 ppg, 3 rpg, 5 apg, .350 3P
Austin Chatman: 8.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 4.4 apg, .389 3P
Ryan Arcidiacano: 9.9 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3.5 apg, .345 3P
Rysheed Jordan: 9.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.0 apg, .279 3P
Dee Davis: 7.7 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 4.7 apg, .372 3P
Alex Barlow: 6.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.5 apg, .376 3P
Jaren Sina: 6.0 pg, 1.4 rpg, 2.4 apg, .382 3P
So according to you, Buzz was sitting the 4th best PG in the BEast. Only Cotton, Starks, and Young, three 4 year seniors who have been studs for multiple seasons, are better than he is. Dawson is better than Rysheed Jordan who was a 5 star recruit and BE freshman of the year candidate. He is also better than Ryan Arcidiacano who was a 4 star recruit and BE freshmen of the year candidate last season. Dawson also would have been 2nd in the BEast for assists. How lucky we are to have such a great floor general on our bench!
Look, I like Dawson, but he is not an elite PG YET. He may become one. But last season he was a promising backup. That's about it. You may think he is better than Derrick, that is a valid opinion. But let's not think that we have Kyrie Irving or even Brandon Young sitting on our bench. It's backup QB syndrome.
How does DWil stack up to that bunch?
Oh yeah... 5.0 ppg, 4.2 apg, 3.8 rpg, 0.71 3PT% (<- yeah. NOT a typo. He was 1 for 14.)
Essentially last...or second to last - but does that really matter?
He stinks. Start Dawson.
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Given that Dawson's averages only project him to get 6 points, 3 assists and 3.3 rebounds (you got one!) per 30 minutes and he only shot 26.9% from 3...I don't know if your numbers are accurate. They kind of seem made up.
Not even Cadougan, a 4 year, top 100 recruit, could put up those kind of numbers as a senior. And he had much better players around him. What makes you think Dawson would be able to walk in and do all that?
People's expectations of assists per game for point guards and rebounds per game for bigs seem to be consistently inflated.
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Power forward Shane Henry of Georgia Perimeter (Junior) College has committed to Virginia Tech, according to a Tech source on Monday.
Henry has two seasons of eligibility left. Because he is transferring from a junior college and not from another Division I school, Henry will be able to play for the Hokies this year.
The 6-foot-8 Henry made the All-Georgia Collegiate Athletic Association first team as a sophomore last season. He also was named the GCAA defensive player of the year. He averaged a team-high 13.2 points and led the conference in rebounds (12.2 rpg) and blocks (4.7 bpg).
Henry, who went to high school in Georgia, made the GCAA all-freshman team in 2012-13.
Henry takes the last remaining scholarship Hokies coach Buzz Williams had to pass out for the 2014-15 season.
Henry caps off a seven-man recruiting class that also includes South Florida transfer Zach LeDay, Maryland transfer Seth Allen and high school recruits Ahmed Hill, Satchel Pierce, Justin Bibbs and Jalen Hudson. Bibbs and Hudson signed with former coach James Johnson last fall.
Eleven of the team’s 13 scholarship players will be able to play this season. LeDay and Allen must sit out.
Henry will be one of four scholarship post players who will be eligible to see action this season, along with Pierce and returning starters Joey van Zegeren and C.J. Barksdale.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/juco-forward-commits-to-tech/article_10780530-f0a8-11e3-974e-001a4bcf6878.html
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The man can recruit.
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Power forward Shane Henry of Georgia Perimeter (Junior) College has committed to Virginia Tech, according to a Tech source on Monday.
Henry has two seasons of eligibility left. Because he is transferring from a junior college and not from another Division I school, Henry will be able to play for the Hokies this year.
The 6-foot-8 Henry made the All-Georgia Collegiate Athletic Association first team as a sophomore last season. He also was named the GCAA defensive player of the year. He averaged a team-high 13.2 points and led the conference in rebounds (12.2 rpg) and blocks (4.7 bpg).
Henry, who went to high school in Georgia, made the GCAA all-freshman team in 2012-13.
Henry takes the last remaining scholarship Hokies coach Buzz Williams had to pass out for the 2014-15 season.
Henry caps off a seven-man recruiting class that also includes South Florida transfer Zach LeDay, Maryland transfer Seth Allen and high school recruits Ahmed Hill, Satchel Pierce, Justin Bibbs and Jalen Hudson. Bibbs and Hudson signed with former coach James Johnson last fall.
Eleven of the team’s 13 scholarship players will be able to play this season. LeDay and Allen must sit out.
Henry will be one of four scholarship post players who will be eligible to see action this season, along with Pierce and returning starters Joey van Zegeren and C.J. Barksdale.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/juco-forward-commits-to-tech/article_10780530-f0a8-11e3-974e-001a4bcf6878.html
I'm starting to see why Chicos called this an Indiana fan board after Crean left
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Give credit where credit is due. Buzz put together a pretty damn good first year class.
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He sure can turn up players and get them in quickly. I will miss him pulling players out of seemingly thin air after someone transfers/leaves, etc.
I am, however, hopeful that Wojo is more of a consistent recruiter who won't have the same need to pull in players late to fill out a roster. We shall see, but more order and stability would be nice for a change.
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He sure can turn up players and get them in quickly. I will miss him pulling players out of seemingly thin air after someone transfers/leaves, etc.
I am, however, hopeful that Wojo is more of a consistent recruiter who won't have the same need to pull in players late to fill out a roster. We shall see, but more order and stability would be nice for a change.
Given transfer rates and early exits in college basketball, order and stability have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. UW seems almost immune, but they're pretty much alone.
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He sure can turn up players and get them in quickly. I will miss him pulling players out of seemingly thin air after someone transfers/leaves, etc.
I am, however, hopeful that Wojo is more of a consistent recruiter who won't have the same need to pull in players late to fill out a roster. We shall see, but more order and stability would be nice for a change.
Can't say that I'm surprised. Buzz got it done in recruiting regularly. Marquette had the most consistently good recruiting under Buzz than it had had since McGuire. I'm sure that Wojo is out there beating the bushes hard for the 2015 and 2016 classes. We'll see how he does. I expect him to do well. I don't expect him to recruit as much talent as Buzz will to VT, however.
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Give credit where credit is due. Buzz put together a pretty damn good first year class.
We all knew Buzz could recruit. We'll see what's going on between the Va Tech board, admin and Buzz in five years. The real issue is Buzz's ability to maintain long-term healthy relationships with his employers and other university stakeholders.
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I suspect his new employers will allow him to recruit JUCO's with academic challenges, will allow freshmen to live in an athletic dorm, and will have admission standards that don't exceed the NCAA's.
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Right...the real question is whether or not it will be something else. Buzz has yet to prove that stability is one of his strong suits. We will see if he breaks that trend at VPI.
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Probably not. Restlessness seems to be too deeply ingrained in his nature.
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Absolutely agree with Tower.
Buzz was telling the truth when he said "I be here as long as they'll have me". MU made the decision that they were not willing to make the compromises most universities must make to have a consistantly top tier basketball program. The message to Buzz was change or go elsewhere.
Anybody who thinks Wojo can play by the tighter rules and still bring in the same amount of talent is likely to be disappointed. I wouldn't make a habit of comparing recruiting classes with VT over the next few years. It doesn't mean MU won't win but to use a Buzz phrase "our margin for error will be smaller".
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Absolutely agree with Tower.
Buzz was telling the truth when he said "I be here as long as they'll have me". MU made the decision that they were not willing to make the compromises most universities must make to have a consistantly top tier basketball program. The message to Buzz was change or go elsewhere.
Anybody who thinks Wojo can play by the tighter rules and still bring in the same amount of talent is likely to be disappointed. I wouldn't make a habit of comparing recruiting classes with VT over the next few years. It doesn't mean MU won't win but to use a Buzz phrase "our margin for error will be smaller".
There are not "tighter rules." The rules are the same as they have always been. Don't admit kids who have no chance of graduating from Marquette. Buzz broke that rule and the university told him not to do it again. This may be what you meant, but there is no truth to the "every recruit must be squeaky clean and an honor student" rumors that have been going around.
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Va Tech was one of only a couple of schools to see their efficiency rating go down every year the last four years. Really a good pick by Buzz, a team at the bottom with nowhere else to go.
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It seems that Young Coach Wojo has a different recruiting style than our former coach. Buzz preferred a "shotgun approach" to recruiting, appropriate considering the hillbilly persona he likes to put off. He would hand offers out like candy. 40-50 offers per class in hopes that he would get a few bites. Wojo comes from Duke. He is used to offering 7 kids and getting 5 of them. He obviously can't pull that off at Marquette, but I think he will be offering between 10-15 kids and really working on them. It's a high risk high reward strategy. You tend to get the players you want but it leaves you with nobody if those 10-15 take their talents elsewhere.
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That is one thing I am afraid of. If Wojo can't get his select group of recruits to pick us; what do we do? Go with 10 or 11 players? I am sure hoping Wojo starts to get recruits and sets up a trail to mu from some of these areas. Also how we or anybody knows if a student will graduate from mu when they first start?
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Also how we or anybody knows if a student will graduate from mu when they first start?
What that means is you don't recruit a juco who only has two years of eligibility but only 1 year of coursework done, ala Jae Crowder.
You could also stretch it to mean don't recruit players who are already in legal trouble.
Other than that, recruit whoever you want!
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What that means is you don't recruit a juco who only has two years of eligibility but only 1 year of coursework done, ala Jae Crowder.
You could also stretch it to mean don't recruit players who are already in legal trouble.
Other than that, recruit whoever you want!
Agree and it is entirely reasonable. That isn't going to ruin the program or make us SLU (who went to the NCAAs last year).
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There are not "tighter rules." The rules are the same as they have always been. Don't admit kids who have no chance of graduating from Marquette. Buzz broke that rule and the university told him not to do it again. This may be what you meant, but there is no truth to the "every recruit must be squeaky clean and an honor student" rumors that have been going around.
WTF!??? Buzz ADMITTED kids to the university who had no chance of graduating? HE broke some rule by ADMITTING Jae Crowder? The UNIVERSITY admitted Jae Crowder, so if there was a rule (I'm sure there wasn't) then they broke their own rule. Did TC break a rule when he "ADMITTED" D Wade? Silly.
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Silly argument,
WOJO will recruit really well. He has the advantage of coming in with MU in a really good place in recruits eyes. even wih last year Mu has still gone to the nCAA 7 of 8years with some nice finishes. He has more momentum than Buzz had coming in in the sense that Mu had only gone to 3 straight when buzz came in versus 7 of 8 and the sweet 16s and elite 8, also Buzz came in as an unknown and had to build his cache with recruits. Wojo has big time name recognition and a collection of assistant coaches that will intrigue recruits
His first couple classes will be impressive IMO,
after that his success on the court will dictate his caliber of recruits
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The decision by the former admin to move the freshman out of Humphrey, along with slightly raising the admission requirements above NCAA minimums, that virtually every other high major school abides by - were the most nauseating and upsetting thing that came out of Pilarz/Larry Williams regime.
Additionally, Jae Crowder was an absolute joy to have at MU...and a great representative of the university. If we want to be able to compete at the highest of levels in high major ball - we don't need to make the head coach's job more difficult than it already is - through housing the underclassmen in regular dorms - when other schools build luxury dorms largely for their basketball and football teams..while allowing the minimum required non-athelte students into them to be in compliance...nor raising academic standards....nor NOT admitting a JUCO who may not be in a position to graduate from MU based on his incoming stature. Our APR will be just fine so long as we don't abuse the JUCO admissions...who are short on credits coming in the door.
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WTF!??? Buzz ADMITTED kids to the university who had no chance of graduating? HE broke some rule by ADMITTING Jae Crowder? The UNIVERSITY admitted Jae Crowder, so if there was a rule (I'm sure there wasn't) then they broke their own rule. Did TC break a rule when he "admitted" D Wade. Silly.
Easy Lenny. The University is at fault too. They decided to let Buzz recruit Crowder. That was on them. But afterwards they decided afterwards that they didn't want it to happen in the future. Buzz was not happy with that decision but had to live with it. And yes it was a rule and it was broken. They knew going in that Jae Crowder had gone to an unaccreditted JUCO his freshman year. This means that none of his credits would transfer in. He only had one year of coursework done. That left three years worth of work to do and only two years to complete it. That is an APR no no. The university allowed it once but wasn't going to allow it again.
Dwyane Wade was a completely different situation. He absolutely had a chance to graduate. TC followed all of the partial qualifier protocols to a T. No squirminess there (besides the tanning cream and hair oil). Jae Crowder? Definitely some squirminess.
Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic and proud to call Jae a Marquette alum former Warrior. I'm a fan, it's my job to want success on the court above all. But I understand why the administration, who has much nobler priorities, decided that they will not allow another Jae Crowder to happen.
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The decision by the former admin to move the freshman out of Humphrey, along with slightly raising the admission requirements above NCAA minimums, that virtually every other high major school abides by - were the most nauseating and upsetting thing that came out of Pilarz/Larry Williams regime.
Additionally, Jae Crowder was an absolute joy to have at MU...and a great representative of the university. If we want to be able to compete at the highest of levels in high major ball - we don't need to make the head coach's job more difficult than it already is - through housing the underclassmen in regular dorms - when other schools build luxury dorms largely for their basketball and football teams..while allowing the minimum required non-athelte students into them to be in compliance...nor raising academic standards....nor admitting a JUCO who may not be in a position to graduate from MU based on his incoming stature. Our APR will be just fine so long as we don't abuse the JUCO admissions...who are short on credits coming in the door.
I have been told that Carpenter will likely not be the home for Marquette basketball in the near future. That move was an overcorrection to the sexual assaults that occurred back in 2008. I agree that it was an unnecessary hamstringing of our recruiting efforts. I don't think we can justify building luxury dorms for our athletes. It doesn't seem to gel too well with mission and values. But as a fan, I would love to see it happen.
The JUCO admissions on the other hand....even star basketball players are supposed to be students first. I don't think the university can justify taking students that have zero chance of graduating. That's a complete departure from their mission. It's saying that their talent as a basketball player is more important than their ability to complete their degree.
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Think you guys are misreading Jae's situation. He took extra courses including summer session after his eligibility for Juco ended in order to get both his Juco degree as well as sufficient credits for entrance to MU. He did not need 3 full years of credits. He worked hard to get admitted by MU. He was somewhat behind but not 3 years worth. Just hard for a 2 year Juco to graduate in the "normal" 4 year timeframe. Part of why Buzz wanted McKay to redshirt.
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Think you guys are misreading Jae's situation. He took extra courses including summer session after his eligibility for Juco ended in order to get both his Juco degree as well as sufficient credits for entrance to MU. He did not need 3 full years of credits. He worked hard to get admitted by MU. He was somewhat behind but not 3 years worth. Just hard for a 2 year Juco to graduate in the "normal" 4 year timeframe. Part of why Buzz wanted McKay to redshirt.
He did work extra hard. He still had no chance of graduating from Marquette before his eligibility ran out and never did graduate from Marquette. Jae would have been fine if he went to an accreditted JUCO his freshman year but he didn't. No amount of summer courses was going to make up for that.
Buzz also did not want McKay to redshirt. He was fine academically. Indian Hills is an accredited and respected JUCO. Plus, McKay committed early and had people working with him to make sure he would be admitted to Marquette.
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I cant even hate, Buzz is a great recruiter. Simple as that.
Im just excited to see what Wojo can do!
Agree but great for someone else is like yesterday's newspaper, only good for wrapping fish.
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What that means is you don't recruit a juco who only has two years of eligibility but only 1 year of coursework done, ala Jae Crowder.
That is false. Jae Crowder was a non-qualifier, and therefore had to obtain his associates degree to even be eligible. He had to accomplish this in just over a year...most kids take two academic years to accomplish this.
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I have been told that Carpenter will likely not be the home for Marquette basketball in the near future. That move was an overcorrection to the sexual assaults that occurred back in 2008. I agree that it was an unnecessary hamstringing of our recruiting efforts. I don't think we can justify building luxury dorms for our athletes. It doesn't seem to gel too well with mission and values. But as a fan, I would love to see it happen.
But building a new 32 million dollar (or whatever it costs) Jesuit residence is totally in the mission and values of the university? You know, the guys who took a vow of poverty.
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That is false. Jae Crowder was a non-qualifier, and therefore had to obtain his associates degree to even be eligible. He had to accomplish this in just over a year...most kids take two academic years to accomplish this.
Yep, TAMU is missing that. He did have his associates degree and had to go to summer school to make up for any non-transferable ( PE, etc ) credits. Still hard to graduate in 2 years though. And that was made harder because Buzz sent him home the summer between his junior and senior seasons.
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That is false. Jae Crowder was a non-qualifier, and therefore had to obtain his associates degree to even be eligible. He had to accomplish this in just over a year...most kids take two academic years to accomplish this.
I am aware of this. Having an associates degree and having two years worth of transferable credits are two different things. Jae Crowder came to Marquette with an associates degree and enough credits to be considered a sophomore.
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Yep, TAMU is missing that. He did have his associates degree and had to go to summer school to make up for any non-transferable ( PE, etc ) credits. Still hard to graduate in 2 years though. And that was made harder because Buzz sent him home the summer between his junior and senior seasons.
Jae majored in PE at Howard. He could not get those credits to transfer to MU, because they don't have a PE program. Therefore he could not finish MU in two years. (And good call about Buzz sending him home...forgot about that. Also because he had to finish up at Howard, he missed the summer session at MU.)
MU will take Jucos, but Jucos who have the ability to graduate in two years (or a little more). Jameel had a shot because he didn't do the PE thing at Indian Hills.
But Jae didn't simply do one year at Howard. He did summer, fall, spring and summer to get his associates degree finished.
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I am aware of this. Having an associates degree and having two years worth of transferable credits are two different things. Jae Crowder came to Marquette with an associates degree and enough credits to be considered a sophomore.
Right...because of the *types* of credits he took. (ie, Phy Ed)
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But building a new 32 million dollar (or whatever it costs) Jesuit residence is totally in the mission and values of the university? You know, the guys who took a vow of poverty.
I would argue it falls more in line with the mission than a basketball dorm would.
Now if you wanted to upgrade all the dorms (which is desperately needed), that would be well within the mission of the university.
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Jae majored in PE at Howard. He could not get those credits to transfer to MU, because they don't have a PE program. Therefore he could not finish MU in two years. (And good call about Buzz sending him home...forgot about that. Also because he had to finish up at Howard, he missed the summer session at MU.)
MU will take Jucos, but Jucos who have the ability to graduate in two years (or a little more). Jameel had a shot because he didn't do the PE thing at Indian Hills.
But Jae didn't simply do one year at Howard. He did summer, fall, spring and summer to get his associates degree finished.
I think we are arguing the same point. When he came to Marquette, Jae Crowder had an associates degree but not as many credits as a 3rd year student should. As a result, Jae Crowder was admitted knowing there was virtually no chance for him to graduate before his eligibility expired.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic and proud to call Jae a Marquette alum former Warrior. I'm a fan, it's my job to want success on the court above all. But I understand why the administration, who has much nobler priorities, decided that they will not allow another Jae Crowder to happen.
You don't have to graduate to be an alum. Jae is an alum under the policies MU uses for that distinction. Just as Dick Cheney is an alum of UW-madison though he didn't graduate from there.
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Jae majored in PE at Howard. He could not get those credits to transfer to MU, because they don't have a PE program. Therefore he could not finish MU in two years. (And good call about Buzz sending him home...forgot about that. Also because he had to finish up at Howard, he missed the summer session at MU.)
MU will take Jucos, but Jucos who have the ability to graduate in two years (or a little more). Jameel had a shot because he didn't do the PE thing at Indian Hills.
But Jae didn't simply do one year at Howard. He did summer, fall, spring and summer to get his associates degree finished.
Yes, Buzz did get involved too late to have MU help steer him academically. So, some credits did not transfer. In Jae's case, he has probably earned more money now than many graduates will in a lifetime. Strange world.
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You don't have to graduate to be an alum. Jae is an alum under the policies MU uses for that distinction. Just as Dick Cheney is an alum of UW-madison though he didn't graduate from there.
Yes, in the same way I am technically an alum of Texas A&M despite never going to school here. I was making a point.
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But building a new 32 million dollar (or whatever it costs) Jesuit residence is totally in the mission and values of the university? You know, the guys who took a vow of poverty.
The money to build the Jes Res is coming from donations earmarked for that expense. The current Jes Res was built in 1916. Maybe it's a recruiting tool to get more priests!! ;)
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Yes, in the same way I am technically an alum of Texas A&M despite never going to school here. I was making a point.
I suppose, but I'm literally saying that he is an alum because he has enough years of attending MU and credits earned to qualify per MU's definition of alumnae status.
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I suppose, but I'm literally saying that he is an alum because he has enough years of attending MU and credits earned to qualify per MU's definition of alumnae status.
He had enough credits to be considered a woman? ;)
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He had enough credits to be considered a woman? ;)
Women's Studies major
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Easy Lenny. The University is at fault too. They decided to let Buzz recruit Crowder. That was on them. But afterwards they decided afterwards that they didn't want it to happen in the future. Buzz was not happy with that decision but had to live with it. And yes it was a rule and it was broken. They knew going in that Jae Crowder had gone to an unaccreditted JUCO his freshman year. This means that none of his credits would transfer in. He only had one year of coursework done. That left three years worth of work to do and only two years to complete it. That is an APR no no. The university allowed it once but wasn't going to allow it again.
At fault, too? It's ALL on the university. They alone decide who can and who cannot be admitted. If they had a "rule" then they broke it. Basketball coaches scour the country looking for talent. A lot of that talent is borderline (or worse) academically. If the guy is good enough (Wade or Crowder, eg.,) coaches ask the powers that be to make an exception and grant them admission. If TC or Buzz altered transcripts to try to get their guys in they broke a rule. Otherwise what you said is 100% wrong. The admission of Dwyane and Jae was totally up to the school. I have no doubt that there came a time when MU told Buzz no more Crowders (Wades were eliminated by rule when we entered the BigEast) just as they told him no more Humphrey for freshmen and sophomores and higher than NCAA requirements for incoming freshmen) and I have no doubt that Buzz wasn't happy about it. No coach would be.
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I think Wojo can be selective this year, since it would probably be foolish handing out 6 scholarships to freshman and then only having one scholarship available the next year. Sign three freshmen and hope for two transfers one of which will be a graduate transfer like Carlino.
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At fault, too? It's ALL on the university. They alone decide who can and who cannot be admitted. If they had a "rule" then they broke it. Basketball coaches scour the country looking for talent. A lot of that talent is borderline (or worse) academically. If the guy is good enough (Wade or Crowder, eg.,) coaches ask the powers that be to make an exception and grant them admission. If TC or Buzz altered transcripts to try to get their guys in they broke a rule. Otherwise what you said is 100% wrong. The admission of Dwyane and Jae was totally up to the school. I have no doubt that there came a time when MU told Buzz no more Crowders (Wades were eliminated by rule when we entered the BigEast) just as they told him no more Humphrey for freshmen and sophomores and higher than NCAA requirements for incoming freshmen) and I have no doubt that Buzz wasn't happy about it. No coach would be.
Lenny,
I'm not sure what you think I am accusing Buzz of. He recruited a player knowing full well that he wasn't going to be able to graduate before his eligibility ran out. He asked the university for an exception, they granted it. The university later decided that granting that exception was squirmy and told Buzz they weren't going to grant that kind of exception in the future. Buzz was pissed. In my opinion getting told that should not pis someone off, at least not to the extent that it did. That's it. That is all that is being said.
And again, other than having struggling academics there is zero connection between Dwyane and Jae. Two completely different situations. Unless you are seeing a connection I am not, which I'd be open to hearing about
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Lenny,
I'm not sure what you think I am accusing Buzz of. He recruited a player knowing full well that he wasn't going to be able to graduate before his eligibility ran out. He asked the university for an exception, they granted it. The university later decided that granting that exception was squirmy and told Buzz they weren't going to grant that kind of exception in the future. Buzz was pissed. In my opinion getting told that should not pis someone off, at least not to the extent that it did. That's it. That is all that is being said.
And again, other than having struggling academics there is zero connection between Dwyane and Jae. Two completely different situations. Unless you are seeing a connection I am not, which I'd be open to hearing about
First, you said Buzz "broke a rule by admitting Crowder". You're flat out wrong. Buzz didn't admit Crowder. He couldn't admit Crowder. It's not his responsibility to admit or deny basketball players. Buzz broke no rules. I don't know how much of an "exception" to normal policy Jae was, but I know he wasn't the first JUCO to be admitted under similar circumstances. So Buzz asked for and received an exception for Jae, like basketball and football coaches do regularly at D1 programs. Regarding Wade, it was also Marquette policy (what you wrongly call "rules") to not admit Prop 48s. We had broken with policy once before (Alton Mason, I believe) and it ended quickly and badly. It was a big enough exception to policy that TC had to appeal to the president to get Wade past admissions. God knows what would have become of Marquette basketball if Bob Wild had not given Tom Crean his permission to "break Marquette's rules" (not my characterization, but yours if there's any consistency to your argument).
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First, you said Buzz "broke a rule by admitting Crowder". You're flat out wrong. Buzz didn't admit Crowder. He couldn't admit Crowder. It's not his responsibility to admit or deny basketball players. Buzz broke no rules. I don't know how much of an "exception" to normal policy Jae was, but I know he wasn't the first JUCO to be admitted under similar circumstances. So Buzz asked for and received an exception for Jae, like basketball and football coaches do regularly at D1 programs. Regarding Wade, it was also Marquette policy (what you wrongly call "rules") to not admit Prop 48s. We had broken with policy once before (Alton Mason, I believe) and it ended quickly and badly. It was a big enough exception to policy that TC had to appeal to the president to get Wade past admissions. God knows what would have become of Marquette basketball if Bob Wild had not given Tom Crean his permission to "break Marquette's rules" (not my characterization, but yours if there's any consistency to your argument).
Lenny, I'm not calling it a rule because of some Marquette policy. If you recruit and admit students that you know won't graduate, it hurts your APR score. Get too low of an APR score and you get penalized. That is why I called it a rule. Whether the proper term is policy, rule, or guideline it doesn't matter. Admitting students who have almost no chance of graduating is something a university shouldn't do.
I'm sorry I used the phrase "Buzz admitted" that was incorrect. I should have said Buzz recruited and the university admitted. I honestly didn't think anything of or mean anything by it.
Lenny, I feel like I have offended you somehow and I apologize if I have. All I'm really trying to get here is that though I am proud to have Jae as a fellow alum (nod to CBB), I understand and respect the university's reasons behind deciding to not allow a similar situation to happen in the future.
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Bottom line in my mind: we made exceptions to admit the two best players to wear a Marquette uniform in the past two decades. I hope we continue to make exceptions when players of that caliber come to our doorstep.
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Lenny, I'm not calling it a rule because of some Marquette policy. If you recruit and admit students that you know won't graduate, it hurts your APR score. Get too low of an APR score and you get penalized. That is why I called it a rule. Whether the proper term is policy, rule, or guideline it doesn't matter. Admitting students who have almost no chance of graduating is something a university shouldn't do.
Actually, APR is "a team-based metric that accounts for the eligibility and retention of each student-athlete, each term." Crowder was eligible for each of his 4 semesters so he did not hurt the APR measurement and his eligibility was used up. APR does not reflect actual graduation rates.
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Lenny, I'm not calling it a rule because of some Marquette policy. If you recruit and admit students that you know won't graduate, it hurts your APR score. Get too low of an APR score and you get penalized. That is why I called it a rule. Whether the proper term is policy, rule, or guideline it doesn't matter. Admitting students who have almost no chance of graduating is something a university shouldn't do.
I'm sorry I used the phrase "Buzz admitted" that was incorrect. I should have said Buzz recruited and the university admitted. I honestly didn't think anything of or mean anything by it.
Lenny, I feel like I have offended you somehow and I apologize if I have. All I'm really trying to get here is that though I am proud to have Jae as a fellow alum (nod to CBB), I understand and respect the university's reasons behind deciding to not allow a similar situation to happen in the future.
TAMU,
Please don't worry about offending me personally - nothing could be further from the truth. You seem to me to be a good guy. I like the overall tone of your posts and appreciate the information/insight you provide.
In this case, however, you (I'm sure just carelessly) wrote some things that are just not true. First, neither Buzz nor any other coach at Marquette has ever admitted a student athlete to Marquette. Second, no Marquette rule, NCAA rule or any other kind of rule was "broken" by admitting Jae Crowder. He had his associate's degree and was eligible to be accepted by any school under the NCAA umbrella.
APR is not a "rule", it's a score or a calculation. In order to be able to participate in NCAA postseason play a school needs to attain a certain score. It doesn't have to be a perfect score. Some pretty good schools (Duke, Indiana, Michigan, etc.) will make exceptions that may hurt their APR to compete at the highest level. The trick is to make few enough exceptions to maintain an acceptable APR. if Marquette's under Buzz fell short of that we surely would know about it. Bottom line: Marquette has a new POLICY. Meeting NCAA qualifying standards is not enough. Ours are higher and there will be no exceptions. Maybe that won't hurt us competitively, maybe it will. Buzz thought it would and the history of Marquette basketball suggests he's right. Time will tell.
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There are numerous 'camps' in this discussion that really seem to center on the overall goals for Marquette basketball. A very few folks want it practically disbanded and/or largely defunded (foolishly) while some want nothing less than to be national championship contenders every year. I suppose I lean more toward the latter but do acknowledge that hoops is only part of the overall MU experience. I would never support the building of a Kentucky style athletes-only residence or a one and done pro pipeline approach with essentially all 13 schollys. (Had Jabari decided to join his buddy Steve I'd have been all for it.)
I will say that most in the senior university administration appreciate the importance of basketball as a 'front porch' gateway to the university. That means that they appreciate the need for dollars and understand that Men's Basketball is the primary tool available for introducing our university to a national audience. There was a time in the 80's when that might have been forgotten. And our university suffered dearly for it. I see no reason to believe that there's any thought to returning to those dark days. Certainly Coach Wojo doesn't think that.
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To be honest, I find Kentucky's approach at least intellectually honest. They aren't pretending to integrate athletes into the overall experience. They aren't pretending to be anything other than a basketball factory. I prefer *that* approach, simply due to its brutal honesty, than the many schools that SAY they are all about academics, etc., but in truth really aren't.
That being said, I don't want that for MU. I want Marquette to be competitive on a high level like they have been over the past dozen years or so. I can see the importance of NCAA minimum admission standards, investing in academic resources for the players, residence halls that are nicer than those for the average freshman, and an *occasional* flyer on a player like Jae. I just want those players while they are here to represent the university well both in the classroom and in the community. And I of course want them to win. Constant final fours? Not likely. Consistent competitiveness in the conference, sweet 16s, and occasional advancement beyond that? Sure.
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I don't understand why Marquette felt the need to raise their admission standard, or the whole JUCO thing. So a guy might not graduate, big deal. At every university in the country kids enroll and don't graduate. I think the administration has a very overinflated opinion of what our school really is. In the Forbes latest university rankings we were 176th for undergraduate studies. Couple that with the extremely high tuition costs and I don't think kids are getting too much bang for their buck in choosing Marquette.
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Well, there is a practical reason. APR scores are important. But really I think Marquette should want for the majority of their athletes to have a shot at graduating by the time their eligibility runs out. It really has nothing to do with the ranking of their "undergraduate studies" by some magazine, nor does it have anything to do with tuition costs.
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To be honest, I find Kentucky's approach at least intellectually honest. They aren't pretending
You mean like, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf? There was a refreshing candor to Hitler that is rarely found in a politician.
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You mean like, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf? There was a refreshing candor to Hitler that is rarely found in a politician.
Quickest. Godwin. Ever.
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I don't understand why Marquette felt the need to raise their admission standard, or the whole JUCO thing. So a guy might not graduate, big deal. At every university in the country kids enroll and don't graduate. I think the administration has a very overinflated opinion of what our school really is. In the Forbes latest university rankings we were 176th for undergraduate studies. Couple that with the extremely high tuition costs and I don't think kids are getting too much bang for their buck in choosing Marquette.
That may be a typo there. MU is typically ranked in the 70s overall. I didn't look it up just now. Of course your tuition vs. value statement raises other issues. Those choosing UW-whatever might agree with your assessment. Suffice to say that MU continues to fill its Frosh class every year and entrance profiles are steady to trending slightly upward. Still, the administration and BOT are actively working to contain costs and moderate tuition increases because they see the challenges ahead.
As to your enrollment/graduation statement, it is absolutely not true that MU would typically enroll a student that is not on an initial path to 4 year graduation. MU tracks this very closely using the national 6 year graduation standard and has a far higher overall graduation rate than a typical university. Sure kids leave for a variety of reasons. But MU is justifiably proud of its graduation rate which I believe is in the mid 80% range.
I do know that there is an effort underway to increase inbound transfers as a source of undergrad students. I believe all must bring sufficient transfer credits to be 'on pace' to be actively considered by Admissions.
I also know that MU is greatly expanding the Summer Program both to enhance the revenue stream (summer classses are quite profitable) and to further enhance the 4 year graduation rate. Many kids (most?) now take a course or more over the summer at some point both on campus and online to avoid too many semesters of the 'dreaded 18'. MU began offering both housing and mealplans in support of that initiative this year. You should have seen summer move-in day at McCormick where I believe 4 floors are currently occupied. Carts rolled across campus the Saturday Spring finals ended.
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To be honest, I find Kentucky's approach at least intellectually honest. They aren't pretending to integrate athletes into the overall experience. They aren't pretending to be anything other than a basketball factory. I prefer *that* approach, simply due to its brutal honesty, than the many schools that SAY they are all about academics, etc., but in truth really aren't.
That being said, I don't want that for MU. I want Marquette to be competitive on a high level like they have been over the past dozen years or so. I can see the importance of NCAA minimum admission standards, investing in academic resources for the players, residence halls that are nicer than those for the average freshman, and an *occasional* flyer on a player like Jae. I just want those players while they are here to represent the university well both in the classroom and in the community. And I of course want them to win. Constant final fours? Not likely. Consistent competitiveness in the conference, sweet 16s, and occasional advancement beyond that? Sure.
Agree with this 100%. There will always be a little tension between the basketball program and the administration if both are doing their jobs. The key is to keep it at "a little". The administration has sent a lot of mixed signals over the last 5 years. Hopefully, a new president soon to be followed by a new AD along with a new coach will result in a more unified front.
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Agree with this 100%. There will always be a little tension between the basketball program and the administration if both are doing their jobs. The key is to keep it at "a little". The administration has sent a lot of mixed signals over the last 5 years. Hopefully, a new president soon to be followed by a new AD along with a new coach will result in a more unified front.
+1
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What does +1 mean?
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What does +1 mean?
+1
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Lenny, you are absolutely right. I carelessly misspoke and I apologize.
WM, I don't think there's a huge issue with a kid not graduating. It happens all the time at Marquette as you pointed out. I think the issue is when you admit someone who you know won't be able to graduate. Even if an academic institution does value a student's athletic ability over their ability to graduate, they can never admit that. That thought process is so against the mission of the university that it is hypocritical. Situations like Jae's are few and far between. I think we can still field a competitive team without getting ourselves in those situations.
JSglow, agree 100%
Sultan, I agree with you completely. Kentucky does not hide themselves whatsoever. They recruit players by showing them how they will market them to the NBA. Make no attempt to disguise themselves as an academic opportunity. I do like the blunt honesty, but that won't keep me from hating them. Their system is honest but it is still unethical to me. And I feel like only a blue blood would be allowed to get away with it. And I know that last comment is "grassy knoll" type conspiracy but it still doesn't feel right.
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What does +1 mean?
+1
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What does +1 mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=%2B1
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The money to build the Jes Res is coming from donations earmarked for that expense. The current Jes Res was built in 1916. Maybe it's a recruiting tool to get more priests!! ;)
If the new Jes Res has an oversupply of housing units, maybe the basketball players can stay live there. No doubt it will be the snazziest housing on campus.
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If the new Jes Res has an oversupply of housing units, maybe the basketball players can stay live there. No doubt it will be the snazziest housing on campus.
The new housing for is to attract top quality transferring Jesuits.
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The new housing for is to attract top quality transferring Jesuits.
THE ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO TURN US INTO JOHN CARROLL!!!!
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You mean like, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf? There was a refreshing candor to Hitler that is rarely found in a politician.
That must be why it was ignored.