MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: 🏀 on February 24, 2014, 09:36:51 AM
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Getting it starting...
http://deadspin.com/the-milwaukee-brewers-adopted-stray-dog-is-the-best-do-1529649707
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I think this story might be the best story to come out of the Brewers all year. They aren't going to be very good and the farm system is horrendous. I think Melvin probably has two more years left...perhaps just this year.
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Go, Tigers! Pretty sure the Cubs WS drought continues. LAD have the best team money can buy, but can they play as a team? Jeter's farewell tour adds an interesting element to the Yankee's. Does it galvanize them?
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I think this story might be the best story to come out of the Brewers all year. They aren't going to be very good and the farm system is horrendous. I think Melvin probably has two more years left...perhaps just this year.
We will see. They will not be a playoff team, but I'm hoping they are better than last year. If the rotation can stay relatively healthy they should be. Big if though. The offense will be worse but I think the pitching is much better. 1B, 2B, and LF will be iffy if you ask me. Don't think Kris Davis and Scooter Gennett can produce every day like he did at the end of the season. 1B we just signed a bunch of washed up dudes who are going to hit a couple bombs and strike out quite a bit.
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Go, Tigers! Pretty sure the Cubs WS drought continues. LAD have the best team money can buy, but can they play as a team? Jeter's farewell tour adds an interesting element to the Yankee's. Does it galvanize them?
Really going out on a limb with that one ;)
Ricketts thinks the Cubs could be a playoff team this year...despite adding no player of significance to a 96-loss team. Maybe Renteria is worth 25-30 wins.
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I think this story might be the best story to come out of the Brewers all year. They aren't going to be very good and the farm system is horrendous. I think Melvin probably has two more years left...perhaps just this year.
Their inability to draft and develop pitching is what will do him in. Also, he hired a guy in Roenicke whose managerial style is almost the opposite of how Melvin wants to build a team. RRR wants to play good defense, and manufacture runs. Melvin wants guys with pop, and they'll find a spot for them later.
They might be competitive if the rotation performs well, but I'm not holding my breath.
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First half of the season will be bland. Second half after Bryant and Baez call-ups will be something.
Looking forward to watching Jose Abreu. Could be something here.
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Really going out on a limb with that one ;)
Ricketts thinks the Cubs could be a playoff team this year...despite adding no player of significance to a 96-loss team. Maybe Renteria is worth 25-30 wins.
Yeah, I know. Was going for a humorous aside.
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We will see. They will not be a playoff team, but I'm hoping they are better than last year. If the rotation can stay relatively healthy they should be. Big if though. The offense will be worse but I think the pitching is much better. 1B, 2B, and LF will be iffy if you ask me. Don't think Kris Davis and Scooter Gennett can produce every day like he did at the end of the season. 1B we just signed a bunch of washed up dudes who are going to hit a couple bombs and strike out quite a bit.
Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4127068/are-you-serious-o.gif)
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If the Mariners finally crack .500 there may be an even bigger parade in Seattle this year.
I thought the Hart signing was great (almost no money committed) and they've made all the right fringe moves. Still probably tops out as a 90 win team but the youth and talent are in place moving forward.
Mostly just happy to have a non-Felix player to cheer for.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
Yikes. They will be far more competitive this season. They'll score runs and rotation will be good enough for them to hang around, but 94 wins? No way.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
Wow. A dreamer. I do think the Brewers will be in the hunt for a playoff spot though. I would guess closer to 86-88 wins if they stay healthy. Offense will be very good and pitching will at least be average this year. Last year they were minus Braun + possibly the worst offensive production from 1B in baseball history - at least if you are going by WAR. This year, you'll still get low OBP, but could get 35 HRs and90 RBI from 1st basemen.
But as someone said, the minor league system sucks. the entire scouting staff needs to be shown the door.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
The Brewers will be trying to move Garza by the 2015 deadline. He's a very talented innings eater but there's a reason why he just joined his fifth team at age 30.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
Just out of curiosity, how do you come up with that math? For every 3 days that a pitcher who will pitch once every 5 days is on the DL we should subtract an entire win from their predicted win total? The Brewers are not going to win every day Garza's on the bump, and they aren't going to lose every day his replacement pitches, but even if that were the case, that'd be 1 loss for every 5 days on the DL.
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For what it's worth (which isn't a ton), PECOTA predictions have the Brewers at even .500, the White Sox at 76-86 and Cubs at 72-90. The Dodgers are predicted to have the best record in the NL (98-64), and Tampa Bay is predicted to have the best AL record (89-73).
Milwaukee's interesting. I know it's illogical and silly to eliminate one month when reviewing a season, but, if you took away May from last season, (when the Brewers went 7-21), they would have been a .500 team.
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Fangraphs uses a combination of Zips and Streamer for their projections:
Brewers win 78 games
Cubs win 63 games
White Sox win 73 games
Mariners project 81-81
Dodgers win 91 (a full 3 games more than the second place Cardinals and Red Sox).
NL Central is tough to figure out this year. Cardinals still ought to have the division, but the Reds and Pirates are serious question marks. I think the Brewers are pretty clearly a notch below those two teams, but with injuries or some surprising performances they could easily be in the conversation for 2nd in the division. I just don't see the wild cards coming out of the Central this year with the Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, and Braves all looking like strong contenders.
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Fangraphs uses a combination of Zips and Streamer for their projections:
Brewers win 78 games
Cubs win 63 games
White Sox win 73 games
Mariners project 81-81
Dodgers win 91 (a full 3 games more than the second place Cardinals and Red Sox).
NL Central is tough to figure out this year. Cardinals still ought to have the division, but the Reds and Pirates are serious question marks. I think the Brewers are pretty clearly a notch below those two teams, but with injuries or some surprising performances they could easily be in the conversation for 2nd in the division. I just don't see the wild cards coming out of the Central this year with the Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, and Braves all looking like strong contenders.
Terrible prediction. Last year 9 teams won more than 91 games, 8 in 2012, 6 in '11, etc., etc. Averages around 7 per year going back quite a ways.
Any system predicting the best team in either league will win only 91 games is wrong. Period. Flawed statistically.
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:-[
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Pirates aren't in the same division.
Huh? The Pirates are more certainly in the NL Central. I'm saying the NL central breaks down to:
Tier 1: Cardinals
Tier 2: Pirates and Reds
Tier 3: Brewers
Tier 4: Cubs
With the most flexibility between tiers 2-3 and 3-4 (if the Brewers under perform and the Cubs over perform).
Apologies if something else in the post was unclear.
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Hank is probably one of our best prospects. Lots of stray dogs in the perennial #30 farm system.
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Terrible prediction. Last year 9 teams won more than 91 games, 8 in 2012, 6 in '11, etc., etc. Averages around 7 per year going back quite a ways.
Any system predicting the best team in either league will win only 91 games is wrong. Period. Flawed statistically.
Here's a rough summery of the methodology:
We’ve then taken those individual player forecasts and summed the totals at the team level in order to forecast an expected Win-Loss record for the remainder of the season. First, the forecasted totals for each team are put through the BaseRuns formula — generally regarded as the best model for estimating run scoring — which produces expected runs scored and expected runs allowed totals. Then, those RS/RA numbers were put through the PythagenPat calculation, which is a more accurate version of the well known pythagorean expected record, and that turns expected runs scored and runs allowed into expected wins and losses.
The outcome of a baseball game is a binary event (W or L) and so the actual results of games show a lot more deviation from the mean than the projections do. Almost all forecasting systems are using projected runs scored (based on individual batter projections) and projected runs allowed (based on individual pitcher projections) and running them through the Pythagorean Wins formula mentioned above. That formula is built from decades of data and predicts wins based on runs scored and allowed.
The point isn't to 'call' the number of wins that will actually happen (since that isn't possible beyond speculation), it's to present the expected records of teams relative to each other were every player to perform as projected (player projections are usually based on the last 4 years of performance). Take some time and poke around Fangraphs - it's a fantastic site and will teach can teach you a lot about both stats and baseball.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/introducing-fangraphs-depth-charts-and-standings/
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I recognize where the stats come from - I've been a fan of sabremetrics for 30 years. But sometimes they tend to be very conservative in that they don't account for outliers and try to bring everything back to the middle. Looks like that was the case with the predicted records. I think any system that doesn't account for any team to win more than 91 games has some inherent flaws.
I use several of these sites to help in developing my player projections. I like baseballhq.com the best.
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I recognize where the stats come from - I've been a fan of sabremetrics for 30 years. But sometimes they tend to be very conservative in that they don't account for outliers and try to bring everything back to the middle. Looks like that was the case with the predicted records. I think any system that doesn't account for any team to win more than 91 games has some inherent flaws.
I use several of these sites to help in developing my player projections. I like baseballhq.com the best.
I think the crux of our different evaluations lies in your use of prediction vs. projection. Those were projected results, not predictive: something that I didn't do a good enough job making clear. The model doesn't predict that the Dodgers win 91 games, it just extrapolates individual projections to that win total.
I'll check out baseballhq tonight - always interested in finding new sources for articles.
The real takeaway is that the Dodgers look really good. A three game lead in projected win total is quite the margin.
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I'm using baseballhq for the first season this year
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Just out of curiosity, how do you come up with that math? For every 3 days that a pitcher who will pitch once every 5 days is on the DL we should subtract an entire win from their predicted win total? The Brewers are not going to win every day Garza's on the bump, and they aren't going to lose every day his replacement pitches, but even if that were the case, that'd be 1 loss for every 5 days on the DL.
the Brewers hired Dusty Baker?
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I recognize where the stats come from - I've been a fan of sabremetrics for 30 years. But sometimes they tend to be very conservative in that they don't account for outliers and try to bring everything back to the middle. Looks like that was the case with the predicted records. I think any system that doesn't account for any team to win more than 91 games has some inherent flaws.
I use several of these sites to help in developing my player projections. I like baseballhq.com the best.
Was reading a chat with Jeff Sullivan on Fangraphs today and someone brought up the exact same issue with the 91 win ceiling. This was his response (much better formulated than anything I could come up with):
Q: Jeff, I've been looking at the projections page and noticed only one team is projected for 90 wins. Then I went to ESPN and looked at standings for the last 10 years or so. I noticed that every year at least 5-10 teams won at least 90 teams. Are the teams really that close or is it just a by-product of the projection process?
9:23
A:(Jeff Sullivan): Projection process. You can think of the projections as being somewhat heavily regressed. In reality, we get a season sample size of 1. So the results are going to be a lot more scattered, and instead of observing true-talent records, we'll observe true-talent records +/- luck. Some teams will play above their heads, some teams will play below
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Just out of curiosity, how do you come up with that math? For every 3 days that a pitcher who will pitch once every 5 days is on the DL we should subtract an entire win from their predicted win total? The Brewers are not going to win every day Garza's on the bump, and they aren't going to lose every day his replacement pitches, but even if that were the case, that'd be 1 loss for every 5 days on the DL.
That would be a pretty decent and mathmatically-sound rebuke... unfortunately, results in sports - like most of life - are dependent upon a sequence of events that wouldn't exist if not for the sequence itself. Chaos theory, butterfly effect, chain-reaction... the same concept goes by many different names. In baseball, one of the more oft-used terms is "pressing;" although we use it mostly to refer to a player in a slump trying to do too much to break out of it, thereby extending the slump further, the same phenomenon can affect his teammates when a key member is slumping or absent from the lineup or rotation... others try to do too much to compensate and will usually turn in a below average performance, thereby amplifying the marginal effect that the key player has on his team's overall performance. The same works the other way around... when a team is "firing on all cylinders" - as the Brewers did during Aug 2011 - players typically outperform their respective norms and the team will - as a result - exceed its "on-paper" expectations.
But that's way too existential for your average baseball player - and fan - to understand, so allow me to offer a more simplistic mathematical explanation:
I believe the Brewers will win between 74 and 94 games. I also believe Garza will miss a total of two months (a/k/a the GZDL factor). A GZDL of 60 days divided by a range of 20 games gives me a 3 to 1 GZDL:L ratio.
How's that for math?
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Fuzzy
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Was reading a chat with Jeff Sullivan on Fangraphs today and someone brought up the exact same issue with the 91 win ceiling. This was his response (much better formulated than anything I could come up with):
Q: Jeff, I've been looking at the projections page and noticed only one team is projected for 90 wins. Then I went to ESPN and looked at standings for the last 10 years or so. I noticed that every year at least 5-10 teams won at least 90 teams. Are the teams really that close or is it just a by-product of the projection process?
9:23
A:(Jeff Sullivan): Projection process. You can think of the projections as being somewhat heavily regressed. In reality, we get a season sample size of 1. So the results are going to be a lot more scattered, and instead of observing true-talent records, we'll observe true-talent records +/- luck. Some teams will play above their heads, some teams will play below
Pretty good explanation. But I think he undercuts his websites purpose a little with the statement. Most sabermetricians try to reduce the luck element. So if a guy hits 10-15 more home runs than expected, is it luck or did his flyball rate go up last year and it went unnoticed so some improvement should be expected.
That's the fun of the new stats. They aren't the answer for everything but they should have in the 60% - 65% range of accuracy. Some things you still need to see though. I like to watch BP when going to games and remember watching Adrian Beltre at age 19 on a team that also had Raul Mondesi and Gary Sheffield. Took 10 minutes before I told my buddy "this guy is gonna be in the hall of fame. Even at 19, you could see the swing. Saw the same last summer in Tennessee on vacation when I took in a couple AA games. Javier Baez has the swing. It's been compared to Hanley and Sheffield - but I saw Ernie Banks. You don't need advanced stats for those kind of things.
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Pretty good explanation. But I think he undercuts his websites purpose a little with the statement. Most sabermetricians try to reduce the luck element. So if a guy hits 10-15 more home runs than expected, is it luck or did his flyball rate go up last year and it went unnoticed so some improvement should be expected.
That works for retrospective analysis, but the nature of projections is that you have to give a 'luck free' baseline and then acknowledge that everything else is just going to happen. What he's (really they) done via regression is eliminate the 'luck' fluctuations that aren't predictable or explainable enough to account for in a model. That gets back to the nature of prediction vs projection - no one can use stats to predict how many games a team will win with reliable accuracy, but these projections work great over large sample sizes (several seasons).
I'm not sure if the player projections (Zips and Streamer) that are fueling the record projections use peripheral stats like FB% or BAIBP. I know they're mostly using RC+ so I'd guess not? Again, the projections do have a 4 year history so I'd imagine most of that would be accounted for.
That's the fun of the new stats. They aren't the answer for everything but they should have in the 60% - 65% range of accuracy. Some things you still need to see though. I like to watch BP when going to games and remember watching Adrian Beltre at age 19 on a team that also had Raul Mondesi and Gary Sheffield. Took 10 minutes before I told my buddy "this guy is gonna be in the hall of fame. Even at 19, you could see the swing. Saw the same last summer in Tennessee on vacation when I took in a couple AA games. Javier Baez has the swing. It's been compared to Hanley and Sheffield - but I saw Ernie Banks. You don't need advanced stats for those kind of things.
Absolutely agree. Reading about baseball and watching baseball are two completely different activities for me. Reading about it (and to a lesser extent fantasy) engages my nerdy analytic side. Watching it fulfills the irrational fan side of me. The best part of baseball is when those two cross over each other. For a Mariners fan, that mostly means "Felix Hernandez is pitching. Drop everything."
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From today's JS
Brewers are polling their fans on Ryan Braun
The Milwaukee Brewers want to know what their fans think about Ryan Braun.
In the wake of Braun’s season-ending, 65-game suspension in 2013 and subsequent admission to using a banned, performance-enhancing substance, the Brewers included a series of questions about their embattled star in a comprehensive survey made available to season ticket holders on the team’s website.
The survey includes a wide swath of questions that polls fans on their interest level in the team, personnel changes made over the off-season, expectations for 2014, ownership’s commitment to being competitive and the Miller Park experience during games. But deep in the survey is the series of blunt, multiple-choice questions about Braun and how fans feel about him after his PED scandal.
“We wanted to do a fairly detailed and comprehensive survey, asking a lot of questions about fans’ views of the team, the state of the team, the ballpark, the experience,” said Brewers chief operating officer Rick Schlesinger. “For us to not ask questions about Ryan, in our view just didn’t make sense.
“Obviously, he’s a very important player. We all know what transpired in 2013. I think it’s important for us as a business (and) in our market what our fans think about our key assets, including key players such as Ryan Braun. We would have been remiss, candidly, if we didn’t ask those questions.
"There’s no question that how our fans view Ryan Braun is important to us. What happened in 2013 as far as being suspended was a significant event here. There’s no doubt about it. A lot of fans have a lot of different opinions. I do a lot of speaking engagements and a lot of people express their views. I like for people to express themselves, candidly or otherwise.
“Frankly, we need to know as an organization what people think about us. If we’re asking fans questions but not asking about Ryan Braun, what are we doing as an organization? If people have strong opinions, we need to know that. We don’t expect everybody to have a great opinion about Ryan Braun.”
The first multiple-choice question is an easy one: What is your opinion of Ryan Braun? Fans have these choices as answers: extremely favorable, very favorable, somewhat favorable, neutral – neither favorable nor unfavorable; somewhat unfavorable, very unfavorable, extremely unfavorable.
The questions then become a little move involved, not to mention blunt. Fans are asked: Which sports blogger statement about the recent criticism of Ryan Braun comes CLOSEST to your view?
*If Ryan Braun returns to playing at an All-Star level, then that is enough for me to respect him as a player and root for him, regardless of how I might view him as a person or a role model.
*Ryan Braun will always be tainted by what he did. He disgraced himself, the team and baseball. His apologies mean nothing.
*Ryan Braun needs to apologize to the fans one more time at the beginning of this season because what he did was wrong. That will make it clear that he gets it. But after that apology, it’s time to move on.
*Ryan Braun already apologized enough. He is an extraordinary player, offensively and defensively. I hope he’ll be a Brewer for his entire career and I’ll always support him.
*Ryan Braun will have to show me that he truly is sorry for what he did. He needs to continually demonstrate that he is remorseful and I will take a wait and see approach before I make a final judgment on him.
Fans are then asked: Which of these four press/blogger statements about Ryan Braun do you agree with the most?
*I don’t like Ryan Braun, and I don’t care what he says or does going forward.
*Ryan has made himself available on multiple occasions to the media to discuss, and it’s now time for the Brewers to turn their focus to this season. Looking back isn’t productive, and while they understand the interest, they need to move forward.
*Ryan has taken steps to reconnect with fans, sponsors and the public. He’s made numerous appearances locally, called fans and sponsors, and has made a serious effort to put this behind him the right way.
*Ryan has served his punishment. Period. He has repeatedly apologized. There is nothing more to talk about. It’s time for the Brewers to get back to baseball and focus on their commitment to fans to fielding a winning baseball team.
Lastly, fans are asked: In light of Ryan Braun’s return to the Brewers this season, how do you feel about the future of the Milwaukee Brewers?
*More excited
*About the same
*Less excited
One month after he accepted his suspension last July 22 stemming from MLB’s investigation into the scandalous Biogenesis clinic, Braun released a written statement of apology with vague details of his PED use. He admitted to using a “lozenge and a cream” to help recover from an unspecified injury during the 2011 season.
Braun tested positive after the Brewers’ first playoff game that year for synthetic testosterone but had the result overturned on appeal, avoiding a 50-game suspension. He then vigorously attacked the MLB drug program and pointed a finger at the urine specimen collector, Dino Laurenzi Jr.
After Braun was nabbed by MLB investigators, much of the public outrage centered on his cover-up and attack on Laurenzi Jr. He later placed phone calls to season ticket holders to apologize in person, participated in the team’s Thanksgiving food drive and appeared at the “Brewers On Deck” fan festival in late January. Each time, he admitted to making a “big mistake” that he regretted but refused to answer specific questions about his PED use.
The Brewers now are trying to take the “temperature” of their fans to see if they think Braun has done enough to atone for his mistake and subsequent actions. I asked Schlesinger if the information would be forwarded to Braun if the survey shows fans think he needs to do more to get their forgiveness.
“If we get some specific, strong indications, again not just whether it’s about Ryan or other things, we have to digest that and take it into account,” said Schlesinger. “What we’re going to specifically do with the responses in relation to Ryan Braun, we haven’t determined.
“With the Ryan Braun information we get, if we get information that tells us we need to take a different direction or we need to do a better job of explaining things or we need Ryan to do more things, we’re going to look at it and figure out what to do with it. We’re certainly taking this very seriously. The information, we think, is going to be helpful to us and make us more responsive to fans, which is the ultimate goal here.
“We haven’t talked about it. If we get some information that is useful, we will talk about it with Ryan. But I haven’t talked about it with (principal owner) Mark (Attanasio) and we haven’t decided what level of information sharing we will do with this.”
Otherwise, what will the club do with the feedback it gets on Braun, you ask?
“We’re not going to look at any one answer,” said Schlesinger. “We’re going to look at how people respond and get a sense of what people think about the direction of our organization. The questions about Ryan Braun are going to be relevant.
“I can’t tell you we’re going to do anything specific in response to the questions we asked about Ryan Braun. I think we do have our own views about what the population thinks about Ryan Braun. But rather than ‘guestimate,’ I’d rather have some concrete survey data that gives us indications about what our market is thinking. I think we can address certain perceptions people might have, whether it’s about Ryan Braun or the direction of the team or the Miller Park experience.
“We think the information is important to have. I do expect our fans to be honest and candid. They always have been. They’ll tell us what they think about a range of things including Ryan Braun.”
The Brewers have a lot at stake with Braun, who has seven years and about $127 million remaining on the biggest contract in club history. Should the club get overwhelmingly negative feedback on Braun in the survey, I asked Schlesinger if it might affect the player’s future with the club.
“That is so hypothetical and speculative, it’s not for me to answer,” said Schlesinger. “We’ll see what information we get from the survey and learn from it, see what our fans are thinking about the team from a lot of angles.
“Our job is to take that information and use it wisely, and figure out how to improve areas we need to improve, maintain areas where we are doing great and just overall make sure there’s a good connection between the fan base and organization.”
The Brewers recently reintegrated Braun into their marketing and promotions for the 2014 after a period of exclusion. I asked Schlesinger if that will be stepped up should the survey provide mostly positive feedback from fans on Braun.
“What I’ve seen to date, before this survey, is that fans don’t have that view of Ryan and don’t want us to scale back any marketing we do,” said Schlesinger.
“I would take exception with the perception that we scaled back on Ryan. When Ryan wasn’t playing and was suspended, clearly your marketing is going to be reflective of the players that are playing as well as the players that are not playing. We had more marketing of some of the players that were playing.
“We haven’t exclusively focused on Ryan in our marketing in the past. We aren’t doing it currently and we’re not going to do it in the future. We’ll take the data that we get and we will learn from it.”
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Anyone tuning into spring training today? Desperate times do call for desperate measures - it's not compelling but it's baseball.
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friend called me today and told me the Twins opener might be delayed as much as two weeks. What's up Twin Cities?
Can't clear the ballpark?
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should have built it with a roof, never understood why they didn't after Miller Park showed how much of a difference it makes all season
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never understood why they didn't after Miller Park showed how much of a difference it makes all season
My understanding is that they couldn't pass the bonding for the higher cost removable roof. Not saying that was a good decision (it was really as equally a bad decision as all new stadiums are) but that's the reason.
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My understanding is that they couldn't pass the bonding for the higher cost removable roof. Not saying that was a good decision (it was really as equally a bad decision as all new stadiums are) but that's the reason.
It would've cost an extra $100m to add a retractable roof to the stadium, and neither the Twins, nor the county or state were willing to pay for it.
I've never been to Target Field, but I know their home broadcasters often cite how beautiful the stadium is without the roof, stating that they couldn't have the "open" feel if it had a retractable roof.
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It would've cost an extra $100m to add a retractable roof to the stadium, and neither the Twins, nor the county or state were willing to pay for it.
I've never been to Target Field, but I know their home broadcasters often cite how beautiful the stadium is without the roof, stating that they couldn't have the "open" feel if it had a retractable roof.
I'm sure they're right but when a family wants to come in for game(s) from up north in July knowing that the games will be played rain or shine, well the Brewers have found out more are willing to make the trip because of that. I think that's one big reason attendance has increased (beside the product improving since then as well). I don't know what the ROI on $100M is but of course it also helps with attendance the 3 months or so that is fricking cold outside.
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I'm sure they're right but when a family wants to come in for game(s) from up north in July knowing that the games will be played rain or shine, well the Brewers have found out more are willing to make the trip because of that. I think that's one big reason attendance has increased (beside the product improving since then as well). I don't know what the ROI on $100M is but of course it also helps with attendance the 3 months or so that is fricking cold outside.
A couple more years of this global warming thing, and it will be too cold to play outdoors baseball before May 1 every year. At that point, the team will have no choice but to move somewhere else.
In other words, the return on $100M is being able to hang on to something that will give you a return.
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Yeah, Minny screwed that up and I hate baseball roofs.
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I've never been to Target Field, but I know their home broadcasters often cite how beautiful the stadium is without the roof, stating that they couldn't have the "open" feel if it had a retractable roof.
I cruise over there every year to catch the Ms and drink beer and it really is a top notch stadium. Probably my favorite outside of maybe Camden Yards. It's also well located - on lightrail lines with craft brewery options within walking distance.
Logistically I get the argument for a roof but it needs to be done right. Miller feels like a hermetically sealed airport terminal with the roof closed. Safeco still has good airflow and breeze with their roof and it makes all the difference.
Saw today that E. Santana is changing agents - hopefully that means he'll sign somewhere soon
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I cruise over there every year to catch the Ms and drink beer and it really is a top notch stadium. Probably my favorite outside of maybe Camden Yards. It's also well located - on lightrail lines with craft brewery options within walking distance.
Logistically I get the argument for a roof but it needs to be done right. Miller feels like a hermetically sealed airport terminal with the roof closed. Safeco still has good airflow and breeze with their roof and it makes all the difference.
Saw today that E. Santana is changing agents - hopefully that means he'll sign somewhere soon
Comparing Miller Park's roof to anything that's hermetically sealed would be like describing Marge Schott as a diversity-embracing egalitarian.
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Comparing Miller Park's roof to anything that's hermetically sealed would be like describing Marge Schott as a diversity-embracing egalitarian.
Not sure I get what you mean...does the roof leak? I've never experienced that...
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Tigers snake bit by injuries this spring. Dirks gone until July, Iglesias gone for the year, Rondon having Tommy John surgery, Sanchez already having a cortisone shot in his shoulder.
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How bout that Cabrera contract? Holy hell. Guess we know why they traded fielder.
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How bout that Cabrera contract? Holy hell. Guess we know why they traded fielder.
I don't get it. He was signed for two more years! What if last season's injuries are a sign of things to come? Why not at least wait until this offseason to do this? It's not like they would have to give him more if he hits .350 45 140 this season. You can pretty much guarantee he won't be worth his paycheck the last 3 or 4 years of the contract. Granted, Cabrera is light years ahead of him, but didn't anyone learn anything from the Ryan Howard contract? He's the best hitter in baseball at the moment so unless the injury bug hits him the Tigers won't be regretting this contract for a couple of years, anyway.
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How bout that Cabrera contract? Holy hell. Guess we know why they traded fielder.
Because Fielder's wife was sleeping with the clubhouse?
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Tigers Sign Cabrera To Record Extension, Create Ripples Across MLB Front Offices
Published March 28, 2014
The Tigers and 1B Miguel Cabrera on Thursday agreed to an eight-year, $248M extension, and while execs around MLB hold Cabrera in the "highest regard," they are "appalled" at the move, according to ESPN's Buster Olney. Olney said, "They're asking questions like, 'Why would the Tigers not wait until after the 2014 season to do this, because he's not a free agent until after 2015 and he turns 31 this April.' They're asking questions like, 'Why not give him a three-year extension rather than an eight-year extension?' And they note that Cabrera probably has a future as a DH and the game's best DH, David Ortiz, just got $16 million in his extension, or about half of what Cabrera is going to make. Rival executives fear the ripple effects from this deal" ("SportsCenter," ESPN, 3/28).
UPPING THE SALARY ANTE: In Detroit, John Lowe reports the extension, which averages out to an MLB-record $31M per year, is the "second deal in baseball history" worth at least $30M per season. Dodgers P Clayton Kershaw, one year "from free agency, signed a long-term deal" for $30.7M per season during the offseason. The extension puts Cabrera’s "total contract" at 10 years and $292M through '23. That would pass Yankees 3B Alex Rodriguez for the "largest lucrative contract in baseball history, by total value" (DETROIT NEWS, 3/28). Also in Detroit, Lynn Henning writes the Tigers have "made him a centerpiece of their past decade’s revival and a source for Comerica Park attendance that has reached the 3 million mark the past two seasons" (DETROIT NEWS, 3/28). ESPN.com's Christina Kahrl wrote the extension "almost automatically makes you wonder if this is what the Tigers decided to do with their entire dividend" from trading 1B Prince Fielder to the Rangers last year (ESPN.com, 3/27). But SI.com's Jay Jaffe wrote the contract "locks in what’s likely to be his decline phase at a fairly steep price" (SI.com, 3/27).
PAYING FOR THE DEAL LATER: ESPN.com's Keith Law wrote under the header, "Miguel Cabrera Deal A Disaster For Detroit." The "issues with the deal are the timing and the length." The timing "makes no sense -- Cabrera had two seasons to go to free agency, and the Tigers could just as easily have taken care of this next winter" (ESPN.com, 3/27). YAHOO SPORTS' Jeff Passan wrote this "may well be the greatest debacle in the desolate baseball wasteland filled with bad-contract carcasses." Passan: "There are mistakes. There are messes. And there is this. This is irresponsible" (SPORTS.YAHOO.com, 3/27). MLB Network's Ken Rosenthal asked, "Why do this when he has two years left on this deal? Do you fear inflation that much? We have yet to see a 10-year deal to a player in his 30s look really good after the first few years" ("MLB Tonight," MLB Network, 3/27). ESPN's Robert Flores wondered how soon until the Tigers have "buyer's remorse after this deal." ESPN's Scott Van Pelt: "It's like driving off the lot with a car. It’s shiny, but as soon as the wheels are dirty (it depreciates) immediately" ("SportsCenter," ESPN, 3/27).
DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN? ESPN's Nate Silver said Cabrera's contract is "almost for sure going to be a disaster." Silver: "If you go back and look at the contracts that were signed for this length with guys in their 30s ... almost always these contracts are regretted after five years" ("Olbermann," ESPN2, 3/27). SI.com's Michael Rosenberg writes this contract "will be a disaster." It just "isn't sensible to think he will be an elite player for 10 more years." Cabrera "may play until he is 40, but at a $30-million-a-year level? Highly doubtful." The contract "makes the least sense of all the big baseball contracts in the millennium." Rosenburg: "What was the urgency here? Cabrera turns 31 next month. He has two years left on his contract. Even if Cabrera has another MVP-type season, as I suspect he will, would his price have been that much higher in a year? And even if the price did go up, why couldn't the Tigers just let Cabrera walk as a free agent?" (SI.com, 3/28).
SCHERZER NEXT? ESPN's Manny Acta noted Cabrera's contract could "limit the Tigers" from re-signing P Max Scherzer and "continue to have that good pitching staff." But ESPN's Olney said the Tigers "could sign Scherzer because they're the one team that seems to be comfortable operating with a deficit" ("Baseball Tonight," ESPN, 3/27). Scherzer, who is set to become a free agent after this season, recently turned down a reported six-year, $144M extension with the Tigers (THE DAILY).
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I'm not in favor in principle to these kind of deals. They never work out at the end. ARod, Pujols. IMO, Mr. I was rewarding Miggy and making sure he retires a Tiger. He may not see a WS ring, but he can make sure Miggy is still in Detroit long after Mr. I passes away. BTW, they are all overpaid.
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I'm not in favor in principle to these kind of deals. They never work out at the end. ARod, Pujols. IMO, Mr. I was rewarding Miggy and making sure he retires a Tiger. He may not see a WS ring, but he can make sure Miggy is still in Detroit long after Mr. I passes away. BTW, they are all overpaid.
These kind of deals show how the owners have so much money that they almost don't know what to do with it. Players share of new revenues is going down every year. Since 2002 player salaries as a share of new revenue has declined from 56% to 40%. Average payroll has gone up 58% in that time while team revenue has gone up 122%.
So while players are making more - owners are making much more.
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Well, no Brewer fan in attendance today can ever boo a visiting player that was caught/suspected of using PEDs.
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nah, he is just OUR dick. Plus booing him would have what sort of effect?
Fans could show that they hate their best player. Sweet idea.
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Soooo, that Abreu is pretty good. Obviously only the first game of the season but more optimistic about the White Sox chances this year. In 2005 they won with a bunch of misfits.
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nah, he is just OUR dick. Plus booing him would have what sort of effect?
Fans could show that they hate their best player. Sweet idea.
Could have maybe, just maybe skipped the standing ovation.
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Soooo, that Abreu is pretty good. Obviously only the first game of the season but more optimistic about the White Sox chances this year. In 2005 they won with a bunch of misfits.
Eaton and Abreu will both be studs.
Eaton = .370 OBP with at least 30 steals
Abreu = .280 BA with 35 HR and 110 RBI
Just from my projections. We'll see.
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Soooo, that Abreu is pretty good. Obviously only the first game of the season but more optimistic about the White Sox chances this year. In 2005 they won with a bunch of misfits.
They are 1 of the 3 least probably AL teams to make the playoffs. Not saying there isn't potential there for future years, but even if Abreu and Eaton hit the cover off the ball there's still an issue at 7 other positions.
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They are 1 of the 3 least probably AL teams to make the playoffs. Not saying there isn't potential there for future years, but even if Abreu and Eaton hit the cover off the ball there's still an issue at 7 other positions.
Ehh, Ill take my chances with Gillepse, De Aza, Garcia, Sale and Beckham when he returns. Actually looking on it now, I really like that lineup. I didnt think the Sox would win with Pods in left and Rowand in center in 05. Never know.
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Ehh, Ill take my chances with Gillepse, De Aza, Garcia, Sale and Beckham when he returns. Actually looking on it now, I really like that lineup. I didnt think the Sox would win with Pods in left and Rowand in center in 05. Never know.
Not to go all stat-dick on spring hope (because everyone should have it) but Sale is the only player you mention who projects to have a WAR higher than 1 this year (and I think they have a decent rotation with Quintana as the #2). Even if all of those guys double their projections, they still miss the playoffs because DET is that much better and the wild cards are likely coming out of the East/West (KC/CLE as sleeeers?)
http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=4
As a Mariners fan - embrace the rebuild.
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Wonder what Cal Ripken thinks when he sees guys getting a rest in the first week of the season!! And I'm talking about All-Star caliber type players, not platoon types.
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Wonder what Cal Ripken thinks when he sees guys getting a rest in the first week of the season!! And I'm talking about All-Star caliber type players, not platoon types.
He might be thinking that "Hey... maybe if I would have sat, my team would have done better." Oh well... let's give the guy props for one of the most selfish records in the history of sports.
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friend called me today and told me the Twins opener might be delayed as much as two weeks. What's up Twin Cities?
Can't clear the ballpark?
You need a new "source". 60 degrees and sunny today. Heated field also helps.
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He might be thinking that "Hey... maybe if I would have sat, my team would have done better." Oh well... let's give the guy props for one of the most selfish records in the history of sports.
So much this. It's impressive the he stayed off the DL for so long but let's not pretend like he wasn't in it for the record. How much more effective could he have been with occasional rest?
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So much this. It's impressive the he stayed off the DL for so long but let's not pretend like he wasn't in it for the record. How much more effective could he have been with occasional rest?
Well, it's much more common practice to rest players now in basketball and baseball. There's a science to it, that if you give players a few days off for whatever reason it may be, they will be more effective down the stretch, and not wear out towards the end of the year.
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Well, it's much more common practice to rest players now in basketball and baseball. There's a science to it, that if you give players a few days off for whatever reason it may be, they will be more effective down the stretch, and not wear out towards the end of the year.
It's obviously a good idea to give guys who play a lot of innings some rest. My point was that it is silly to be resting all-star caliber players in the 3rd or 4th game of the year. That will do much more harm to your teams chances than good. You have a lesser chance of winning when you take your best players out of the lineup. And unless you are like the old Cubs who had to play half their games in the midday sun or maybe the Rangers or D'Backs in the heat, I don't think the toll is great on the body playing every day. This IS baseball that we are talking about.
As far as Ripken is concerned, there is no way to quantify if it hurt having him on the field every game. There is nothing to compare it to since there weren't games where he wasn't on the field. As far as 1st half vs. 2nd half stats over the course of his career, he had about the same number of years where his 2nd half stats were better as when they were worse - maybe a very slight edge to the worse side. But even his worse stats were better than who the replacement would have been.
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Soooo, that Abreu is pretty good. Obviously only the first game of the season but more optimistic about the White Sox chances this year. In 2005 they won with a bunch of misfits.
I don't see it. Sale won't be able to carry the rest of the pitching staff.
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I don't see it. Sale won't be able to carry the rest of the pitching staff.
Yup, that seems like its going to be common theme this year. Sale will pitch great, Quintana will be inconsistent and the rest of the starters and bullpen will be brutal. The offense needs to put up like 8 runs a game.
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Braunie with 3 ding dongs today.
MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP!!
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Braunie with 3 ding dongs today.
MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP, MVP!!
What are they on ? a 4 game win streak right now? Great way to storm out of the gates after a 1-2 homestand against the braves.
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Segura gets dotted in the elbow, Phili fans cheer, Segura stays in the game, Philies fans boo. Braun blasts one on the next pitch. Classic Phili.
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Over/under on the number of times Braun was tested today? 3.5?
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Over/under on the number of times Braun was tested today? 3.5?
I'll take the under. But even if he was tested, the only thing that would probably have come up would be the pain killers, which he probably has a script for any way.
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I'll take the under. But even if he was tested, the only thing that would probably have come up would be the pain killers, which he probably has a script for any way.
But if they did find something, who should be fired this time?
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Hank the Dog?
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He's like Ted Williams without roids, Babe Ruth with them...standing ovation...once in a lifetime talent.
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But if they did find something, who should be fired this time?
Well, if it's his third failure, Braun gets fired, right?
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Well, if it's his third failure, Braun gets fired, right?
Actually I think Buzz goes to prison.
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He's like Ted Williams without roids, Babe Ruth with them...standing ovation...once in a lifetime talent.
How could he be once in a lifetime talent? He isn't the most talented player in the league right now.
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How could he be once in a lifetime talent? He isn't the most talented player in the league right now.
He's up there, but I agree. HOF talent? Absolutely. Once in a lifetime? No.
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This guy can cycle off roids and hit 3 dingers in a game....no other man has done that.
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This guy can cycle off roids and hit 3 dingers in a game....no other man has done that.
Also, not to mention that he's a terrible human. That's got to count for something.
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Braun has 3 strikeouts and a triple today, in addition to his 3 HR's yesterday. What is up with #3 and Braun? It's Brewers are up 9-4 against Philly, looking like they're going to drop another steamer in Philadelphia. Life is good !!!
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This guy can cycle off roids and hit 3 dingers in a game....no other man has done that.
Tuffy Rhoades? Also, he beat drug tests in the past, he could certainly still be on roids. See, Arod, for example.
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This guy can cycle off roids and hit 3 dingers in a game....no other man has done that.
Why do we think he's no longer on PED's?
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Why do we think he's no longer on PED's?
Why would anyone think that any professional athlete isn't on some sort of PED?
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Why do we think he's no longer on PED's?
No, I don't think he was a consistent user of PED's, ever. He was using testosterone to speed recovery up for an injury. Otherwise, is muscle mass has stayed consistent and he's never jacked an enormous amount of home runs to suggest he has.
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No, I don't think he was a consistent user of PED's, ever. He was using testosterone to speed recovery up for an injury. Otherwise, is muscle mass has stayed consistent and he's never jacked an enormous amount of home runs to suggest he has.
HAH!
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HAH!
What would make you suggest otherwise?
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No, I don't think he was a consistent user of PED's, ever. He was using testosterone to speed recovery up for an injury. Otherwise, is muscle mass has stayed consistent and he's never jacked an enormous amount of home runs to suggest he has.
(http://i.minus.com/ibbieSGDBO9of5.gif)
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What would make you suggest otherwise?
What makes you suggest that in the first place?
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What makes you suggest that in the first place?
For the reasons I stated above. Plus, I'm willing to bet that his numbers this year echo what he's done in the past. His name never came up before in any rumors, he's not gargantuan, there isn't a spike in his numbers, he didn't fail any other prior tests ....
I'm not sure how you can argue that he has been a consistent user. I asked you, but you were unable to bring up any evidence or a plausible theory.
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I think you are confusing the visible signs of steroids with PED's (not much if any visible signs)
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I think you are confusing the visible signs of steroids with PED's (not much if any visible signs)
A steroid is a PED.
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For the reasons I stated above. Plus, I'm willing to bet that his numbers this year echo what he's done in the past. His name never came up before in any rumors, he's not gargantuan, there isn't a spike in his numbers, he didn't fail any other prior tests ....
I'm not sure how you can argue that he has been a consistent user. I asked you, but you were unable to bring up any evidence or a plausible theory.
As Done Deal has pointed out, you are confusing steroids with PEDs.
Why do I think he's been a consistent user? The Union refused to back him or help him. That's your biggest red flag.
Additionally:
He's a liar, and he's story was a one-time excuse. I don't believe proven liars on anything.
He's an egomaniac that will destroy anyone that gets in his way. Like ARod, these guys will do anything to keep playing.
He signed a extremely friendly deal with the Brewers. This was on purpose, no one likes Milwaukee more than truckloads of additional money.
He's never had a huge spike in numbers, which indicates consistent use.
Even if he hits for the same numbers as before, that doesn't prove anything and is an argument of the meathead.
If Braun is clean and only used once, he will have a long prosperous career into his late 30s. If Braun isn't clean he'll either test positive again or he will be out of baseball due to the advanced body breakdown.
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A steroid is a PED.
No one uses steroids anymore outside of the Jersey Shore or Venice Beach.
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As Done Deal has pointed out, you are confusing steroids with PEDs.
If Braun is clean and only used once, he will have a long prosperous career into his late 30s. If Braun isn't clean he'll either test positive again or he will be out of baseball due to the advanced body breakdown.
So you're saying we need at least 5 years to judge...?
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So you're saying we need at least 5 years to judge...?
(http://images.bidnessetc.com/content/uploads/images/source1/faty-8a50bae297807da9e97722a0b3fd8f27.gif)
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As Done Deal has pointed out, you are confusing steroids with PEDs.
Why do I think he's been a consistent user? The Union refused to back him or help him. That's your biggest red flag.
Additionally:
He's a liar, and he's story was a one-time excuse. I don't believe proven liars on anything.
He's an egomaniac that will destroy anyone that gets in his way. Like ARod, these guys will do anything to keep playing.
He signed a extremely friendly deal with the Brewers. This was on purpose, no one likes Milwaukee more than truckloads of additional money.What does his deal have anything to do with PED's? What hairbrained theory do you have behind this?
He's never had a huge spike in numbers, which indicates consistent use.
He's been tested repeatedly which would indicate he hasn't consistently used.
Even if he hits for the same numbers as before, that doesn't prove anything and is an argument of the meathead.
The above statement adds nothing to your argument except that it proves you're basing everything on conjecture in your made up fantasy world. Perhaps you should pop open a Schmidt's Gay and cool off, hombre'
If Braun is clean and only used once, he will have a long prosperous career into his late 30s. If Braun isn't clean he'll either test positive again or he will be out of baseball due to the advanced body breakdown.
How do you know his career will last that long? What if he gets hurt? Ohhhh, that means it was because of elevated levels of testosterone. Do you even know what testosterone does?
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Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
Brush up on the subject and come back later.
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As Done Deal has pointed out, you are confusing steroids with PEDs.
Why do I think he's been a consistent user? The Union refused to back him or help him. That's your biggest red flag.
Additionally:
He's a liar, and he's story was a one-time excuse. I don't believe proven liars on anything.
He's an egomaniac that will destroy anyone that gets in his way. Like ARod, these guys will do anything to keep playing.
He signed a extremely friendly deal with the Brewers. This was on purpose, no one likes Milwaukee more than truckloads of additional money.
He's never had a huge spike in numbers, which indicates consistent use.
Even if he hits for the same numbers as before, that doesn't prove anything and is an argument of the meathead.
If Braun is clean and only used once, he will have a long prosperous career into his late 30s. If Braun isn't clean he'll either test positive again or he will be out of baseball due to the advanced body breakdown.
I'm not defending Braun here (nor will I ever again), but I'm having trouble following your argument here. Maybe if you could define "consistent use" (i.e. frequency and duration) that might help...
The guy is one step away from being banned from baseball, and having the remainder of his contract voided as a result; one more positive test will cost him over $100M. Even if everything you said is true, I don't see how anyone could be that type of stupid.
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MikeDeane: He's been tested repeatedly which would indicate he hasn't consistently used.
Ah.. this is the crux of the problem. You don't understand the PEDs or masking agents that players take now at all.
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I'm not defending Braun here (nor will I ever again), but I'm having trouble following your argument here. Maybe if you could define "consistent use" (i.e. frequency and duration) that might help...
The guy is one step away from being banned from baseball, and having the remainder of his contract voided as a result; one more positive test will cost him over $100M. Even if everything you said is true, I don't see how anyone could be that type of stupid.
Consistent user meaning he used more than just to get over one injury.
Look at how stupid ARod is/was. Sosa was so stupid he forgot how to speak English. McGwire was so stupid he couldn't talk about the past. These guys will do anything, and this goes well beyond Braun, I don't want to pick on just him.
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MikeDeane: He's been tested repeatedly which would indicate he hasn't consistently used.
Ah.. this is the crux of the problem. You don't understand the PEDs or masking agents that players take now at all.
Or how the development of PEDs is several years ahead of the testing for the new developments.
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Consistent user meaning he used more than just to get over one injury.
Look at how stupid ARod is/was. Sosa was so stupid he forgot how to speak English. McGwire was so stupid he couldn't talk about the past. These guys will do anything, and this goes well beyond Braun, I don't want to pick on just him.
These people have nothing to do with Braun. You're saying they are of the same mentality as Braun, which is a very poor argument and is stereotyping. You don't know how Braun thinks.
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These people have nothing to do with Braun. You're saying they are of the same mentality as Braun, which is a very poor argument and is stereotyping. You don't know how Braun thinks.
See previous post about coming back when you've read up on the topic.
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Or how the development of PEDs is several years ahead of the testing for the new developments.
This is right. Bonds never failed a test (at least as far as I can recall), but I am 100% certain he was using steroids.
Then again, I don't care. Don't care if its Braun, ARod, Puig, Trout, or (insert player name here). It doesn't matter to me. For the past I don't know how many years, I have just been working under the assumption that the overwhelming majority of players are using something, but it simoly doesn't change anything for me. I watch or attend games just the same. Heck, if it helps keep the best players on the field, if anything maybe it makes baseball better for me.
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This is right. Bonds never failed a test (at least as far as I can recall), but I am 100% certain he was using steroids.
Then again, I don't care. Don't care if its Braun, ARod, Puig, Trout, or (insert player name here). It doesn't matter to me. For the past I don't know how many years, I have just been working under the assumption that the overwhelming majority of players are using something, but it simoly doesn't change anything for me. I watch or attend games just the same. Heck, if it helps keep the best players on the field, if anything maybe it makes baseball better for me.
+1
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This is right. Bonds never failed a test (at least as far as I can recall), but I am 100% certain he was using steroids.
Then again, I don't care. Don't care if its Braun, ARod, Puig, Trout, or (insert player name here). It doesn't matter to me. For the past I don't know how many years, I have just been working under the assumption that the overwhelming majority of players are using something, but it simoly doesn't change anything for me. I watch or attend games just the same. Heck, if it helps keep the best players on the field, if anything maybe it makes baseball better for me.
Bonds used HGH. It's the one supplement that makes your head grow bigger and the only one. It also causes the separation of your teeth, which is why athletes like Marion Jones had braces.
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Consistent user meaning he used more than just to get over one injury.
Look at how stupid ARod is/was. Sosa was so stupid he forgot how to speak English. McGwire was so stupid he couldn't talk about the past. These guys will do anything, and this goes well beyond Braun, I don't want to pick on just him.
I don't know... there's "Stupid," there's "Sammy Sosa Stupid," there's "Lindsay Lohan Stupid" and there's $100,000,000 stupid. The first three are much more common. I'm struggling to find an example of where someone has pissed $100M in a single shot (outside the government).
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Tiger Woods? Ryan Leaf?
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I don't know... there's "Stupid," there's "Sammy Sosa Stupid," there's "Lindsay Lohan Stupid" and there's $100,000,000 stupid. The first three are much more common. I'm struggling to find an example of where someone has pissed $100M in a single shot (outside the government).
Maybe we can add Max Scherzer to the list in a few months
http://www.businessinsider.com/detroit-tigers-max-scherzer-contract-2014-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/detroit-tigers-max-scherzer-contract-2014-3)
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My God if I hear any more Ryan Braun apologists I'm going to puke.
Even if you are somehow bizarre enough believe that he was only taking whatever small amounts it took to recover from injury, you cannot ignore the fact that he tried to get a regular guy fired to save his own ass.
But hey, he went to his house for dinner and apologized!!
(Sad trombone)
If you are going to cheer for him because he's playing for your team, whatever, I get it. It would suck to just boo the guy forever, but please, please, stop making excuses. It's just embarrassing.
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I don't think anyone is apologizing for Braun, here. But the "Braun derangement" that's going on is just as bad as the apologizing, so perhaps we can all agree to move on to another topic... maybe how we haven't heard about Derek Jeter retiring in at least 4 hours now.
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(http://i.minus.com/ibbieSGDBO9of5.gif)
What a response. I just wanted this gif on here again.
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So when do they start testing Abreu for PEDs? Good lrd did not expect him to make that transition to the majors as well as he has.
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Tiger Woods? Ryan Leaf?
The Tiger had like 9 girl friends so his was at least 9 shots
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So when do they start testing Abreu for PEDs? Good lrd did not expect him to make that transition to the majors as well as he has.
I did. Not only is he a power hitter, but he's a good hitter period. Will have an excellent strikeout/walk ratio as well.
If you check earlier in this thread, I gave this prediction:
Abreu = .280 BA with 35 HR and 110 RBI
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So when do they start testing Abreu for PEDs? Good lrd did not expect him to make that transition to the majors as well as he has.
The scouting reports where pretty accurate on Abreu.
"One talent evaluator said Abreu could step into a big league lineup tomorrow and hit .260 with 25 home runs."
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/onenationmlb09172013/sizing-cuban-slugger-jose-dariel-abreu (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/onenationmlb09172013/sizing-cuban-slugger-jose-dariel-abreu)
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Abreu is so good. He's due for a sustained slump in the next few weeks as pitchers adjust though. Makes me wish Rizzo wasn't around so Theo & Jed could have went all in on Abreu. Great player.
I will have to make a couple trips to the Cell to see him this year when Sale pitches.
Sidenote - Karma strikes for Avi?
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Sidenote - Karma strikes for Avi?
What does that mean? What has he done to drum up so much negative karma?
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How 'bout those Brewers?
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What does that mean? What has he done to drum up so much negative karma?
Porking Fielder's wife in Detroit, it was meant to be a joke.
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How 'bout those Brewers?
http://todaysdate.com/ (http://todaysdate.com/)
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How 'bout those Brewers?
The Brewers haven't won 9 games in a row in April since the magical 2013 season.
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if they make it 10 in a row Sobelman's is giving away free burgers (according to channel 4)
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Besides Milwaukee who else do you think has been the most surprising team?
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Seattle is decent. Houston has more wins than I thought they would, which was zero. Arizona is playing dreadful, same with Cincy.
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/its-never-too-early-for-a-winning-streak/
A nice article on how much/little to read into the Crew's early success. Outperforming your talent level for a few weeks, while not predictive, can certainly give you more room to play with later.
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/its-never-too-early-for-a-winning-streak/
A nice article on how much/little to read into the Crew's early success. Outperforming your talent level for a few weeks, while not predictive, can certainly give you more room to play with later.
Similar type article here with section on Brewers about halfway through the article::
http://grantland.com/features/mlb-power-rankings-the-30-twins-mariners-brewers-rays-giants/
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I had a feeling going into this series the Brewers would get big boyed by the Cards, per usual. Last night did nothing to change those feelings. We'll see about tonight. But I'll just saying being the best team in baseball for the first 1/14 of the season was fun!
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I had a feeling going into this series the Brewers would get big boyed by thee Cards, per usual. Last night did nothing to change those feelings. We'll see about tonight. But I'll just saying being the best team in baseball for the first 1/14 of the season was fun!
The Cards have close to a .700 winning pct. against the Brewers. It's ridiculous...... Now I know how the Bears feel when facing the Packers.
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A big part of the reason is that the Cards are and have been one of the best teams in baseball. You tend to lose to better teams, in general.
But I'm sure they have let it get into their heads which isn't helping.
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Ridiculous for Gomez to get suspended 3 games. Maldonado deserved his 5 for throwing a punch.
But the guy who instigates the fight get nothing!
And for the Pirates to claim Gomez showboated by watching the ball was ridiculous.
Billy Ripken showed what the Pirates did in the series. Tabata hit a ball off the wall in right-center and only gets a double (took 11.4 seconds to reach 2nd basecuz he was watching the ball. McCutchen with only a double on a ball of the wall in right-center (11.5 seconds to reach 2nd base). Martin with a fly ball to the warning track in left - not even half way to 1st when it was caught as he watched the flight.
Gomez - 10.3 seconds to reach 2nd on his way to a triple. And maybe that is what upset the Pirates and Cole. Gomez out-hustled their guys - including the MVP. But they had to take it out on someone.
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Ridiculous for Gomez to get suspended 3 games. Maldonado deserved his 5 for throwing a punch.
But the guy who instigates the fight get nothing!
And for the Pirates to claim Gomez showboated by watching the ball was ridiculous.
Billy Ripken showed what the Pirates did in the series. Tabata hit a ball off the wall in right-center and only gets a double (took 11.4 seconds to reach 2nd basecuz he was watching the ball. McCutchen with only a double on a ball of the wall in right-center (11.5 seconds to reach 2nd base). Martin with a fly ball to the warning track in left - not even half way to 1st when it was caught as he watched the flight.
Gomez - 10.3 seconds to reach 2nd on his way to a triple. And maybe that is what upset the Pirates and Cole. Gomez out-hustled their guys - including the MVP. But they had to take it out on someone.
What upsets the Pirates and Cole is their 1-6 record against the Brewers so far this year. They had their 1 year to shine and now forgot how to handle getting pounded by the Crew year in and year out.
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You don't want someone to showboat? Strike him out.
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Eh, whatever. Same argument different season. Watch the ball, get drilled, move along.
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Ridiculous for Gomez to get suspended 3 games. Maldonado deserved his 5 for throwing a punch.
But the guy who instigates the fight get nothing!
And for the Pirates to claim Gomez showboated by watching the ball was ridiculous.
Billy Ripken showed what the Pirates did in the series. Tabata hit a ball off the wall in right-center and only gets a double (took 11.4 seconds to reach 2nd basecuz he was watching the ball. McCutchen with only a double on a ball of the wall in right-center (11.5 seconds to reach 2nd base). Martin with a fly ball to the warning track in left - not even half way to 1st when it was caught as he watched the flight.
Gomez - 10.3 seconds to reach 2nd on his way to a triple. And maybe that is what upset the Pirates and Cole. Gomez out-hustled their guys - including the MVP. But they had to take it out on someone.
I have no problem with the 'showboating' by Gomez. Part of the game..who cares.
Cole can say what he wants and all Carlos has to do is yell back or keep him mouth shut. He hit a triple. He won. Who cares.
When Carlos flies off the handle and it clears the dugouts, he needs a suspension. Maybe Cole should get a game, but Cole didn't physically instigate anything.
Fair or not, Carlos needs to realize he's got a reputation around the league. I think some of it is undeserved, but he's not likely to ever get the benefit of the doubt again.
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I have no problem with the 'showboating' by Gomez. Part of the game..who cares.
Cole can say what he wants and all Carlos has to do is yell back or keep him mouth shut. He hit a triple. He won. Who cares.
When Carlos flies off the handle and it clears the dugouts, he needs a suspension. Maybe Cole should get a game, but Cole didn't physically instigate anything.
Fair or not, Carlos needs to realize he's got a reputation around the league. I think some of it is undeserved, but he's not likely to ever get the benefit of the doubt again.
That's all it would have been if Snyder hadn't jumped in from the bench. Maldanado gave him what he deserved.
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That's all it would have been if Snyder hadn't jumped in from the bench. Maldanado gave him what he deserved.
(http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/27/51/01/6197339/3/628x471.jpg)
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(http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/27/51/01/6197339/3/628x471.jpg)
Hopefully he learned his lesson. Gomez was a fool for watching a fly ball. Cole was a fool for then yelling at the guy who just tripled on him (he should've been thanking him). Gomez was once again a fool for trying to run past the ump, but the ump did a good job stopping him and Cole had then walked away. Should've been done. But then Snyder decides to run at him, and when they get separated he decides to run around the group of players that got in between them and b!tch slap Gomez. Maldanado showed him how to actually hit somebody if he's going to act like that.
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Can we all agree that the benches clearing brawl in baseball is one of the dumbest wastes of time in sports? Seriously, I just watched the video of this fight and it made me laugh watching all of the guys running onto the field like, "shoot, I better get out their because the other 30 guys out there aren't going to be able to stop this fight". Especially the 60 year old coaches.
Not to mention the guys in the bullpen running out. You would think they would just say, screw it and at most have their own satellite fight by the outfield wall.
At least hockey players pair off and go at it for 45 seconds and then they are done. Not all the "hold me back, hold me back". Granted this is one fight that actually landed a punch, but it is defiantly part of the 1%.
Just go ahead with the automatic suspension for leaving the dugout or your position on the field for defensive players (so it's not 9 on 1). There are a lot of sentimental parts of baseball that I would hesitate getting rid of, but this is not one of them.
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What upsets the Pirates and Cole is their 1-6 record against the Brewers so far this year. They had their 1 year to shine and now forgot how to handle getting pounded by the Crew year in and year out.
Hilarious. Brewers fans going around bragging about beating the Pirates every year. It's the middle brother syndrome.
They get to complain now though because your payroll is 20% higher than theirs.
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Hilarious. Brewers fans going around bragging about beating the Pirates every year. It's the middle brother syndrome.
They get to complain now though because your payroll is 20% higher than theirs.
Just looking at since the Brewers joined the NL, the winning percentages against the Pirates are:
STL: 153-102 60%
MIL: 139-111 55.6%
CHC: 138-113 54.9%
CIN: 133-125 51.5%
Basically, the Pirates are sick of losing to everybody.
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Can we all agree that the benches clearing brawl in baseball is one of the dumbest wastes of time in sports? Seriously, I just watched the video of this fight and it made me laugh watching all of the guys running onto the field like, "shoot, I better get out their because the other 30 guys out there aren't going to be able to stop this fight". Especially the 60 year old coaches.
Not to mention the guys in the bullpen running out. You would think they would just say, screw it and at most have their own satellite fight by the outfield wall.
At least hockey players pair off and go at it for 45 seconds and then they are done. Not all the "hold me back, hold me back". Granted this is one fight that actually landed a punch, but it is defiantly part of the 1%.
Just go ahead with the automatic suspension for leaving the dugout or your position on the field for defensive players (so it's not 9 on 1). There are a lot of sentimental parts of baseball that I would hesitate getting rid of, but this is not one of them.
Agreed. At least when I played hockey, I could skate around in my crease by myself while everyone else brawled and no one would ever thought less of me for minding my own business. But try to be that guy who just sits back in the dugout by yourself and the entire league - even the guys on the other team - will ostracize you.
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Just looking at since the Brewers joined the NL, the winning percentages against the Pirates are:
STL: 153-102 60%
MIL: 139-111 55.6%
CHC: 138-113 54.9%
CIN: 133-125 51.5%
Basically, the Pirates are sick of losing to everybody.
True.
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Buddy of mine and 4-5 friends are looking to go rooftop for a Cubs game this summer.
What say you Cubs fan? Any recs? Any places to stay away from?
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Buddy of mine and 4-5 friends are looking to go rooftop for a Cubs game this summer.
What say you Cubs fan? Any recs? Any places to stay away from?
Have you been looking at any in particular?
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A quick applause to Mr. Pujols. It's unfortunate that what used to be a great accomplishment has been diminished a great deal the last decade or so.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10822128/albert-pujols-chase-500-home-runs-had-no-buzz
Another solid article on just how elite http://espn.go.com/blog/jayson-stark/post/_/id/769/appreciating-albert-pujols
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Buddy of mine and 4-5 friends are looking to go rooftop for a Cubs game this summer.
What say you Cubs fan? Any recs? Any places to stay away from?
Well you have the right idea staying away from wrigley.
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Have you been looking at any in particular?
Nah, I'm just an idiot Brewers trying to help a friend who will be visiting for the first time later this summer.
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A quick applause to Mr. Pujols. It's unfortunate that what used to be a great accomplishment has been diminished a great deal the last decade or so.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10822128/albert-pujols-chase-500-home-runs-had-no-buzz
Another solid article on just how elite http://espn.go.com/blog/jayson-stark/post/_/id/769/appreciating-albert-pujols
And it's too bad that he's part of why the feat has been so diminished (I realize, he was never caught...but he, just like almost every major player of the generation, is dirty as well).
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And it's too bad that he's part of why the feat has been so diminished (I realize, he was never caught...but he, just like almost every major player of the generation, is dirty as well).
You seem certain of this, yet for this particular player there has been only one such assertion and after being hit with a lawsuit, he (Jack Clark) issued an apology and recanted. No other player, that I'm aware of has so vigorously defended those types of insinuations.
You could be 100% correct, I'm just curious if you are saying this out of "they all did it" or because there is proof.
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And it's too bad that he's part of why the feat has been so diminished (I realize, he was never caught...but he, just like almost every major player of the generation, is dirty as well).
On February 24, 2011, you wrote:
"I do not believe Braun took anything. He immediately came out and said it was BS. Why would the sample collector not take it right to FedEx? Nowhere does it say "He attempted to take it to FedEx (or wherever he was supposed to send it from), but it was closed," it says "He thought it was too late." Isn't this matter a bit too important to leave it up to "thinking it is too late?" To go from 4x the testosterone level ever tested in an MLB player to being clean on his next test shortly after seems weird (I honestly have no idea, maybe it can be flushed out in 4 hours or something, so maybe that has nothing to do with it really, it just seems odd that there is THAT much yet shortly later it is normal). He had 3 other tests that came back clean this season and he has had over 30 tests done in his career that came back clean."
Then Braun got caught. Now, every player has taken something, including Pujols.
Sucks to have the bad guy on your team, doesn't it?
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You seem certain of this, yet for this particular player there has been only one such assertion and after being hit with a lawsuit, he (Jack Clark) issued an apology and recanted. No other player, that I'm aware of has so vigorously defended those types of insinuations.
You could be 100% correct, I'm just curious if you are saying this out of "they all did it" or because there is proof.
I don't have any proof I just find it hard to believe that a guy who was drafted with the 402nd overall pick in the 1999 draft was then hitting .329 with 37 home runs and 130 RBI in his first MLB season just 2 years later at the age of 21 years old. I have a hard time seeing (arguably) the best player/hitter of the generation, a generation that went right through the height of the PED era, being clean. Just my personal opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and am just a pessimist by heart, but I just have serious, serious doubts that a guy who might be the best ever to play the game when it is all said and done did it cleanly while everybody else (okay, maybe not literally everybody else, but you get the idea) in his generation was taking PEDs.
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On February 24, 2011, you wrote:
"I do not believe Braun took anything. He immediately came out and said it was BS. Why would the sample collector not take it right to FedEx? Nowhere does it say "He attempted to take it to FedEx (or wherever he was supposed to send it from), but it was closed," it says "He thought it was too late." Isn't this matter a bit too important to leave it up to "thinking it is too late?" To go from 4x the testosterone level ever tested in an MLB player to being clean on his next test shortly after seems weird (I honestly have no idea, maybe it can be flushed out in 4 hours or something, so maybe that has nothing to do with it really, it just seems odd that there is THAT much yet shortly later it is normal). He had 3 other tests that came back clean this season and he has had over 30 tests done in his career that came back clean."
Then Braun got caught. Now, every player has taken something, including Pujols.
Sucks to have the bad guy on your team, doesn't it?
HAH! If you keep digging around you'll see that I said over and over, some before that post and some after, that I have been saying for a long, long time that I would have been far more surprised if Braun had not taken some sort of PED at some point in his baseball playing life, and I would've put my money on him having taken PEDs back in college, you know, while playing at "The U" when ARod was coming down there to work out in the offseason. Funny how those 2 are now linked by the Biogenesis lab. So sure I made that post, but I wasn't naive enough to think that there was no chance he had ever taken any sort of PED, unlike you apparently are with Pujols or any other player in the MLB, since the Brewers have "the" bad guy on their team.
And to answer that question...well, no, it doesn't. I'm pretty happy he's putting up the numbers he is. The Brewers have the best record in baseball and he has played a part in that. Will I ever give him a standing ovation like some idiot Brewer fans did while not giving other players who, by all accounts, have gotten where they are through clean, hard work? Absolutely not. But I don't hate having Braun on the Brewers, that's for sure. Guessing you're a Cubs fan, given your "MUChicago" email address. I'm sure you're happy with where the Cubs are with all their squeaky clean guys. Thank God they don't have any guys like Sosa on the team anymore tarnishing their image. Enjoy your 100 loss season.
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I don't have any proof I just find it hard to believe that a guy who was drafted with the 402nd overall pick in the 1999 draft was then hitting .329 with 37 home runs and 130 RBI in his first MLB season just 2 years later at the age of 21 years old. I have a hard time seeing (arguably) the best player/hitter of the generation, a generation that went right through the height of the PED era, being clean. Just my personal opinion. Maybe I'm wrong and am just a pessimist by heart, but I just have serious, serious doubts that a guy who might be the best ever to play the game when it is all said and done did it cleanly while everybody else (okay, maybe not literally everybody else, but you get the idea) in his generation was taking PEDs.
I don't get too caught up with baseball draft status because its so different than any other sport. Almost all players are expected to play multiple years in the minor leagues. With so many high school kids, foreign kids, etc...all different levels of competition, it is really tough. The amount of busts in the first 10 rounds for baseball is phenomenal. Having friends still at the Angels in their scouting department, I joke around with them that the Halos didn't even take Trout with their first pick in 2009. Though Trout was a 1st rounder, the Angels had two picks that year and took Randal Grichuk with their first pick. Grichuk finally made it to the big leagues with the 40 man expansion last year and was promptly traded to the Cardinals.
With him in particular, there was a question about his age and his position when he was in high school, so clubs passed on him thinking they could get him at a later slot. Remember the baseball draft back then was 50 rounds, he was taken in the 13th. However, I understand your point of view and may even agree with it, I just haven't seen anything credible on the accusation front toward him.
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I don't get too caught up with baseball draft status because its so different than any other sport. Almost all players are expected to play multiple years in the minor leagues. With so many high school kids, foreign kids, etc...all different levels of competition, it is really tough. The amount of busts in the first 10 rounds for baseball is phenomenal. Having friends still at the Angels in their scouting department, I joke around with them that the Halos didn't even take Trout with their first pick in 2009. Though Trout was a 1st rounder, the Angels had two picks that year and took Randal Grichuk with their first pick. Grichuk finally made it to the big leagues with the 40 man expansion last year and was promptly traded to the Cardinals.
With him in particular, there was a question about his age and his position when he was in high school, so clubs passed on him thinking they could get him at a later slot. Remember the baseball draft back then was 50 rounds, he was taken in the 13th. However, I understand your point of view and may even agree with it, I just haven't seen anything credible on the accusation front toward him.
Agreed on your point about the draft. Using his pick probably doesn't make any difference. I guess just the fact that 2 years after he was drafted he was hitting 37 home runs in the MLB raises a red flag for me.
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I don't get too caught up with baseball draft status because its so different than any other sport. Almost all players are expected to play multiple years in the minor leagues. With so many high school kids, foreign kids, etc...all different levels of competition, it is really tough. The amount of busts in the first 10 rounds for baseball is phenomenal. Having friends still at the Angels in their scouting department, I joke around with them that the Halos didn't even take Trout with their first pick in 2009. Though Trout was a 1st rounder, the Angels had two picks that year and took Randal Grichuk with their first pick. Grichuk finally made it to the big leagues with the 40 man expansion last year and was promptly traded to the Cardinals.
With him in particular, there was a question about his age and his position when he was in high school, so clubs passed on him thinking they could get him at a later slot. Remember the baseball draft back then was 50 rounds, he was taken in the 13th. However, I understand your point of view and may even agree with it, I just haven't seen anything credible on the accusation front toward him.
For the Brewers it is, sadly to say, just normal. Worst scouting dept. in baseball.
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Haha Pineda. What a cheater.
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Haha Pineda. What a cheater.
What a moron. He made it impossible not to get caught.
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Agreed on your point about the draft. Using his pick probably doesn't make any difference. I guess just the fact that 2 years after he was drafted he was hitting 37 home runs in the MLB raises a red flag for me.
He was actually clobbering a bunch of HRs in the minors as well.
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oops
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Fitting way to celebrate Wrigley Field turning 100 years old (by the way, who sings "Happy Birthday" to a baseball field?)...Cubs give up a 3 run lead in the 9th inning, including a horrible dive attempt to allow the winning runs to cross the plate. Happy birthday Wrigley, you're 100 years old and have never seen a World Series Champion as your home team!
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Wait, there's an argument that Pujols is clean?
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Wait, there's an argument that Pujols is clean?
People are trying.
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People are trying.
He did play for LaRussa right?
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Nah, I'm just an idiot Brewers trying to help a friend who will be visiting for the first time later this summer.
If you get a particular one, let me know, there's often cheap rooftop deals on Amazon, Groupon etc. Here are some guidelines for rooftops though:
1.) The majority of left field rooftops suck. These include Wrigley View, Beyond the Ivy 1048, Brixen Ivy and Beyond the Ivy 1010.
Beyond the Ivy 1038 is very good in left field.
http://www.beyondtheivy.com/
2.) Wrigleyville Rooftops as one solid location in left field, stay away from both locations on Sheffield.
http://www.wrigleyvillerooftops.com/page/tickets-reservation
3. In right field, avoid Murphy's Rooftop (Beth Murphy is a twat), Ivy League Club, Lake View Club.
4. 3639 Wrigley Rooftop is a good choice.
http://3639wrigleyrooftop.com/index.html
Skybox on Sheffield is good.
http://www.skyboxonsheffield.com/
Down the Line Rooftop has new owners since I've been there. Looks improved and the view isn't the worst.
http://www.downthelinerooftop.com/aboutus/dtloverview.html
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If you get a particular one, let me know, there's often cheap rooftop deals on Amazon, Groupon etc. Here are some guidelines for rooftops though:
1.) The majority of left field rooftops suck. These include Wrigley View, Beyond the Ivy 1048, Brixen Ivy and Beyond the Ivy 1010.
Beyond the Ivy 1038 is very good in left field.
http://www.beyondtheivy.com/
2.) Wrigleyville Rooftops as one solid location in left field, stay away from both locations on Sheffield.
http://www.wrigleyvillerooftops.com/page/tickets-reservation
3. In right field, avoid Murphy's Rooftop (Beth Murphy is a twat), Ivy League Club, Lake View Club.
4. 3639 Wrigley Rooftop is a good choice.
http://3639wrigleyrooftop.com/index.html
Skybox on Sheffield is good.
http://www.skyboxonsheffield.com/
Down the Line Rooftop has new owners since I've been there. Looks improved and the view isn't the worst.
http://www.downthelinerooftop.com/aboutus/dtloverview.html
Awesome, thanks for recs, will let ya know how it plays out.
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For the Brewers it is, sadly to say, just normal. Worst scouting dept. in baseball.
You're joking, right?
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You're joking, right?
No, why would you ask? Their minor league prospects are rated near the bottom and have been for several years. You haven't seen many top 100 prospects over the last few years.
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No, why would you ask? Their minor league prospects are rated near the bottom and have been for several years. You haven't seen many top 100 prospects over the last few years.
But what hey do do a good job of is, outside of Mat Gamel and Rickie Weeks, when they do have a highly rated prospect they trade him away early, get quality in return, and the player turns out to be, at the very best, an average MLB player.
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No, why would you ask? Their minor league prospects are rated near the bottom and have been for several years. You haven't seen many top 100 prospects over the last few years.
Since '02, the Brewers first-round picks have included Prince, Rickie Weeks, Braun, Laporta (who eventually became Sabathia for the Brewers), Brett Lawrie (who got them Shaun Marcum), and Jeffres and Odorizzi (who became Grienke and Yuni). There are many MLB teams who would love to have that kind of success, (and I'm not a Brewers fan).
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Fitting way to celebrate Wrigley Field turning 100 years old (by the way, who sings "Happy Birthday" to a baseball field?)...Cubs give up a 3 run lead in the 9th inning, including a horrible dive attempt to allow the winning runs to cross the plate. Happy birthday Wrigley, you're 100 years old and have never seen a World Series Champion as your home team!
As a Cubs fan that pretty much was exactly what the the team embodies. There was no more fitting 100th anniversary than that. So sad. If the next 100 years are anything like the first, burn the damn place to the ground. I'm not sure if the current organization shift is the right one or not, but good God I hope it is because I'm dying a slow death. Best case scenario for the team is that Jed and Theo actually fill up the farm system with all these losing years, and we become the Rays with a $200mil payroll. On paper they could be very dangerous in 4 or 5 years with this strategy.... but obviously history is history.
All that said, having a Brewers fan sit and shout negative comments at Cubs fans is really comical. Honestly.... come on now. Oh, that charmed Brewers franchise.... what a gem. Sitting back and taking crap from Cardinals fans is expected and like going with a knife to a gun fight, but come on, settle down wade.
Also your point about Sosa is a bit off base. Cubs fans not only do not give Sammy Sosa a standing ovation, but he is completely shunned from the organization. He was not invited to the 100th anniversary celebration. Of course beyond the steroids he was just a flat out jerk.
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As a Cubs fan that pretty much was exactly what the the team embodies. There was no more fitting 100th anniversary than that. So sad. If the next 100 years are anything like the first, burn the damn place to the ground. I'm not sure if the current organization shift is the right one or not, but good God I hope it is because I'm dying a slow death. Best case scenario for the team is that Jed and Theo actually fill up the farm system with all these losing years, and we become the Rays with a $200mil payroll. On paper they could be very dangerous in 4 or 5 years with this strategy.... but obviously history is history.
All that said, having a Brewers fan sit and shout negative comments at Cubs fans is really comical. Honestly.... come on now. Oh, that charmed Brewers franchise.... what a gem. Sitting back and taking crap from Cardinals fans is expected and like going with a knife to a gun fight, but come on, settle down wade.
Also your point about Sosa is a bit off base. Cubs fans not only do not give Sammy Sosa a standing ovation, but he is completely shunned from the organization. He was not invited to the 100th anniversary celebration. Of course beyond the steroids he was just a flat out jerk.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Since '02, the Brewers first-round picks have included Prince, Rickie Weeks, Braun, Laporta (who eventually became Sabathia for the Brewers), Brett Lawrie (who got them Shaun Marcum), and Jeffres and Odorizzi (who became Grienke and Yuni). There are many MLB teams who would love to have that kind of success, (and I'm not a Brewers fan).
I don't consider 10 years ago and a different scouting department to be relevant to now.
Just look at the ratings of minor league systems by Baseball America for the last several years.
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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Well.........
Cubs have hotter girls at the games.
That's all I got.
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I don't consider 10 years ago and a different scouting department to be relevant to now.
Just look at the ratings of minor league systems by Baseball America for the last several years.
yeah, I thought it was accepted here that judging is only done at 5 years :)
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Well.........
Cubs have hotter girls at the games.
That's all I got.
Won't argue that. Although I will say there are better looking girls at Brewers games than there are on Marquette's campus.
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70 or more years of suffering for this kid.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/cubsfangif.gif)
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I used to feel bad for Cubs fans. Bartman changed that.
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Bartman did nothing wrong at all. The 2 or 3 errors, correctly me cubs fans, after the legal Bartman fiasco is why they lost. Then the cubs still had game 7 to redeem themselves which they didn't.
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I used to feel bad for Cubs fans. Bartman changed that.
Most Cubs fans don't feel anything for Bartman. If you're a Cubs fan at all you realize he did nothing. Gonzalez still couldn't field a grounder. Prior still threw a 0-2 fastball down the middle to Rodriguez. The only ones still yelling about Bartman are a handful of blowhards or ESPN trying to make a headline.
Saying you don't like Cubs fans because of Bartman would be the equivalent of not liking any Brewers fans because of Braun being cheered.
The way I rationalize any hope of for the future of the organization is because of how baseball has changed. Up until the last few years of the 90's, mlb payrolls were all within a reasonable vicinity. It was those last few years of the century that they got out of control and really began to separate. You can argue that that is when the sport really started to suck, and you'd probably be right.
Teams with the top of the line payrolls, while obviously will not always win, will have a leg up. It hasn't been that long that the Cubs have been operating within that system, and if they can figure out how to, it shouldn't be like the previous 100 years because they have a gigantic market and huge following and the ability to spend in the top 5. The way the system is moving (and with all the $ at stake it's not about to change) they should be able to contend slightly more regularly and at least have a chance to lose bigger games instead of losing them all.
Even as a Cubs fan I hate MLB and how it's run. It's a terrible joke of a league. But it's probably their only chance.
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Won't argue that. Although I will say there are better looking girls at Brewers games than there are on Marquette's campus.
There was nothing quite like the disappointment of spending a hot summer day at Bradford or Miller Park, then returning to campus.
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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
You could have not said it better. cub fans do not really think clearly.
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To be more clear, the reaction to Bartman soured me on Cubs fans.
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When I was 11 years old at the dump they call a field is when I soured on the cubs.
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When I was 11 years old at the dump they call a field is when I soured on the cubs.
You sound like a sox fan. ;D
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I don't consider 10 years ago and a different scouting department to be relevant to now.
Just look at the ratings of minor league systems by Baseball America for the last several years.
Yep, our farm is pathetic. One top 100 prospect, checking in at #96. Not one position player worth considering in the entire system.
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No, why would you ask? Their minor league prospects are rated near the bottom and have been for several years. You haven't seen many top 100 prospects over the last few years.
Go look at the Brewers roster and their record.
Now look where those players came from.
Since when does prospect rating mean success?
I thought you were joking, but you are obviously just ignorant about the Brewers lineup.
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I guess, growing up as a Cubs fan in Milwaukee and now living in Chicago, I've never understood where the haughtiness or arrogance of Brewers fans towards the Cubs comes from. Has this been an abysmal few years? Sure. But in the last 10 years, the Cubs still have more division titles and the same number of playoff berths and NLCS appearances as the Brewers. I used to go to Brewers/Cubs games at Miller Park and have fun. Now my car gets spit on in the parking lot cause I have Illinois plates. We should be united in hate for the Cardinals.
As for the Cubs, this is the first year since the "rebuild" that I've been excited. Spring Training showed some really good glimpses. Javier Baez and Kris Bryant have the tools to be studs, Jorge Soler is promising, and a bit farther down the line, Alberto Almora looks really interesting. Now if pitching CJ Edwards and Pierce Johnson can turn out, there is real promise. Added to guys like Rizzo and Bonifacio, I think the Cubs will be sneaky competitive for a playoff berth next summer. Who knows, maybe they can trick someone into taking Starlin "Soriano effort level 2.0" Castro for some pitching. Fans have a right to be sick of losing, but any knowledgeable fan can see the organization, from a baseball perspective, is in good shape moving forward.
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I guess, growing up as a Cubs fan in Milwaukee and now living in Chicago, I've never understood where the haughtiness or arrogance of Brewers fans towards the Cubs comes from. Has this been an abysmal few years? Sure. But in the last 10 years, the Cubs still have more division titles and the same number of playoff berths and NLCS appearances as the Brewers. I used to go to Brewers/Cubs games at Miller Park and have fun. Now my car gets spit on in the parking lot cause I have Illinois plates. We should be united in hate for the Cardinals.
This I agree with. Im a White Sox fan but from what I remember the Cubs and Brewers were never rivals until like 5 years ago. My mom, who is a die hard Cubs fan, has no ill-feelings towards the Brewers and was actually up in MKE the other week to see the Brewers and Pirates.
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This I agree with. Im a White Sox fan but from what I remember the Cubs and Brewers were never rivals until like 5 years ago. My mom, who is a die hard Cubs fan, has no ill-feelings towards the Brewers and was actually up in MKE the other week to see the Brewers and Pirates.
For you White Sox and Brewer fans, wasn't there a decent rivalry there back in the day? What do you any of you remember of that?
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For you White Sox and Brewer fans, wasn't there a decent rivalry there back in the day? What do you any of you remember of that?
Bitter arguments, often ending in fistfights, over which was truly more distasteful... the Cubs or their fans.
Brewer fans simply don't care for Cubs fans. We don't care about the actual Cubs team.
Sox fans hate the Cubs. They can tolerate Cubs fans, probably because they have a common interest in the Bears and Hawks. Or maybe it's because their pensions aren't funded... who knows.
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Bitter arguments, often ending in fistfights, over which was truly more distasteful... the Cubs or their fans.
Brewer fans simply don't care for Cubs fans. We don't care about the actual Cubs team.
Sox fans hate the Cubs. They can tolerate Cubs fans, probably because they have a common interest in the Bears and Hawks. Or maybe it's because their pensions aren't funded... who knows.
I personally dont hate the Cubs. Maybe thats just because besides myself I grew up in a Cubs household. Im the opposite where those nutter Cubs fans bother me more then the actual team.
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I used to feel bad for Cubs fans. Bartman changed that.
http://www.youtube.com/e/JoumAUfwnI8
This pretty much shows you all you need to know. But if that wasn't enough...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3200582.stm
One Cubs fan parodied an FBI "Ten most wanted" poster on the net with Mr Bartman's picture on it. "Considered ignorant and extremely stupid," the poster reads. "Wanted for "interfering with crucial play... breaking the heart of an entire city."
The Chicago Sun-Times ran a picture of his intervention under the headline "Curses".
The Governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, joined in the jibing with an offer to get Mr Bartman a spot in a witness protection programme.
One city alderman, Tom Allen, suggested he "move to Alaska".
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I went to 1 Cubs-Brewers game at Miller Park probably 5-6 years ago and swore I would never go to another one. I agree with Benny B's comments that it isn't the Cubs team but there are enough bullsh!t Cubs fans at Miller Park that the game experience is not enjoyable.
The row behind us had a group of 8-10 20-something drunk and obnoxious Cubs fans. From yelling Ben Shi!ts at the pitcher all day etc. it was embarrassing for the families of Cubs fans nearby who would their hands up whenever one turned around to look at the drunks after the latest thing they yelled about. From that day forward I will only watch Cubs-Brewers on TV and go to the park when any other team is in town.
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Bitter arguments, often ending in fistfights, over which was truly more distasteful... the Cubs or their fans.
I was at a lot of those games at Old County Stadium. To say that the arguments amongst Sox and Brewers fans had anything to do with the Cubs is completely false. Brewers fans hated the Sox fans, who would come up in busses filled with with flat-lander FIB's. Before the Brewers switched to the NL, I don't remember any of their fans hating the Cubs, (why would they)?
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I went to 1 Cubs-Brewers game at Miller Park probably 5-6 years ago and swore I would never go to another one. I agree with Benny B's comments that it isn't the Cubs team but there are enough bullsh!t Cubs fans at Miller Park that the game experience is not enjoyable.
The row behind us had a group of 8-10 20-something drunk and obnoxious Cubs fans. From yelling Ben Shi!ts at the pitcher all day etc. it was embarrassing for the families of Cubs fans nearby who would their hands up whenever one turned around to look at the drunks after the latest thing they yelled about. From that day forward I will only watch Cubs-Brewers on TV and go to the park when any other team is in town.
I made the same decision years ago as well, but it is far from limited tithe Cubs clad crowd. There are plenty of Brewer 'fans' who go out to Miller Park when the Cubs are in town to act like idiots simply because its the Cubs...seemingly trying to prove something. What, I don't know exactly. I think it has gotten better in recent years, but several years ago, those games we just toxic. The whole Wrigley North thing, etc. regardless of the side they took, wa too many people heading the ball park, intent on making it about them.
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70 or more years of suffering for this kid.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/cubsfangif.gif)
Why would parents do that to their kids. It is just mean.
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I made the same decision years ago as well, but it is far from limited tithe Cubs clad crowd. There are plenty of Brewer 'fans' who go out to Miller Park when the Cubs are in town to act like idiots simply because its the Cubs...seemingly trying to prove something. What, I don't know exactly. I think it has gotten better in recent years, but several years ago, those games we just toxic. The whole Wrigley North thing, etc. regardless of the side they took, wa too many people heading the ball park, intent on making it about them.
Agreed, the idiot fans are out in full force for both teams when the Cubs visit town.
As far as tonight's game goes, the Cubs are already playing like a little league team all around.
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Actually went to the game Friday night. From the first inning the Cubs were throwing the ball all over the field. They're playing some of the worst baseball you'll ever see. All the fans where I was were respectful, maybe because it wasn't much of a game.
The most cheering that really went on is when the Jonathan Toews scored in overtime.
I've been to good number of stadiums, and it turns out that there are jerks at all of them. It seems like every year we're hearing stories get worse, and recently about people getting shot or paralyzed (out on the west coast).
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I was there last night as well.
Brutal attendance for a beautiful Friday night though.
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Brutal? I would have predicted better, but let's compare:
Cubs 100th anniversary of Wrigley Field attendance: 4/23 32,323
Brewers last night: 32,868
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Brutal? I would have predicted better, but let's compare:
Cubs 100th anniversary of Wrigley Field attendance: 4/23 32,323
Brewers last night: 32,868
Not bad for this time of year. You don't get many people from further areas of the state in April
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Cubs fans will get knocked for going to the games when they keep losing, and then knocked for not having enough people there?
Neither of these franchises have anything to be ashamed of attendance-wise, especially when you look around the rest of the league.
Honestly it's tough to blame fans falling away from baseball though. How can you get mad at fans of team spending 50 mil and trying to compete with the Yankees. Baseball is eating itself alive.
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When have the Yankees had a competent GM?
$50 mil + for Arod and Teixeira this year. If you had a choice of any corner infield duo this year, which one would be your absolute last choice? Which would give the least bang for the buck - even if healthy & un-suspended?
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Brutal? I would have predicted better, but let's compare:
Cubs 100th anniversary of Wrigley Field attendance: 4/23 32,323
Brewers last night: 32,868
This is a really bad comparison.
One of those started at 1:20 on a Wednesday, the other at 7:00 on a Friday. Also, both had Cubs fans in attendance.
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Yeah, there also wasn't 32000 in the stadium. Maybe 26000 at best.
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This is a really bad comparison.
One of those started at 1:20 on a Wednesday, the other at 7:00 on a Friday. Also, both had Cubs fans in attendance.
100th Anniversary of Wrigley Field!
Plus it was a giveaway (the Chi-Feds jersey) game. And I heard they had cupcakes.
My point was simply this: I agreed with PTM that I would have expected better attendance on a nice Friday night with Miller Park traditionally drawing a lot of Cubs fans, but to term it "brutal" attendance is an overstatement.
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Looked like a good time on Saturday...
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/apparently-there-was-a-5-minute-brawl-in-the-upper-deck-at-the-cubsbrewers-game-in-milwaukee-last-night/
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Are batting helmets required to be worn now in the dugout?
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Looked like a good time on Saturday...
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/apparently-there-was-a-5-minute-brawl-in-the-upper-deck-at-the-cubsbrewers-game-in-milwaukee-last-night/
There are still a lot of emotions flying after the MU coaching search, these kind of things are expected.
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There are still a lot of emotions flying after the MU coaching search, these kind of things are expected.
Someone should have punched the videographer for how they uploaded that video.
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When have the Yankees had a competent GM?
$50 mil + for Arod and Teixeira this year. If you had a choice of any corner infield duo this year, which one would be your absolute last choice? Which would give the least bang for the buck - even if healthy & un-suspended?
Teixeira was a good signing. He helped the Yankees win a title in 2009. The Yankee GM did not wan to sign A-Rod. George Steinbrenner said to make it happen. You did what George said.
Ellsbury, Beltran & Tanaka, letting Granderson go, avoiding a 10 yr deal with Cano and keeping Gardner looks pretty good 1 month in.
Plus every year, we like seeing Cashman "mountain climb" down a skyscraper for charity in Downtown Stamford, CT.
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Yeah, there also wasn't 32000 in the stadium. Maybe 26000 at best.
Seriously? Criticizing the Brewers for attendance? Smallest market in baseball and they draw ~ 3 million fans a year. I would suggest attendance is probably the last thing anyone should be complaining about where the Brewers are concerned.
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100th Anniversary of Wrigley Field!
Plus it was a giveaway (the Chi-Feds jersey) game. And I heard they had cupcakes.
My point was simply this: I agreed with PTM that I would have expected better attendance on a nice Friday night with Miller Park traditionally drawing a lot of Cubs fans, but to term it "brutal" attendance is an overstatement.
Fine, I'll retract 'brutal' and replace with poor.
I was in the Gehl Club, and it was a topic of conversation. That's the only reason I brought it up.
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Teixeira was a good signing. He helped the Yankees win a title in 2009. The Yankee GM did not wan to sign A-Rod. George Steinbrenner said to make it happen. You did what George said.
Ellsbury, Beltran & Tanaka, letting Granderson go, avoiding a 10 yr deal with Cano and keeping Gardner looks pretty good 1 month in.
Plus every year, we like seeing Cashman "mountain climb" down a skyscraper for charity in Downtown Stamford, CT.
And every year since the, his numbers have gone down. Worst infield in baseball and if Tanaka goes down, the season is over.
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The Brewers drew about 118,000 for this weekend's 3 game series. I bet they're pretty happy with that number.
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The Brewers drew about 118,000 for this weekend's 3 game series. I bet they're pretty happy with that number.
In April? They are extremely happy.
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Fine, I'll retract 'brutal' and replace with poor.
I was in the Gehl Club, and it was a topic of conversation. That's the only reason I brought it up.
Hey look, Mr. Big shot in the house.
(http://savagehenrymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/monopoly-man.jpg)
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Hey look, Mr. Big shot in the house.
(http://savagehenrymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/monopoly-man.jpg)
Every once in awhile, everyone is entitled to a Chicos moment.
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Every once in awhile, everyone is entitled to a Chicos moment.
Did we miss the part of your club-level memoirs where you dropped the names of the five Fortune 500 CEOs you were drinking with.
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The Cubs suck. I just want to reaffirm this
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The Cubs suck. I just want to reaffirm this
Yeah, someone told me that about 80 years ago. Glad you could confirm.
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Got a bad feeling that the Brewers great start has run its course.
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I guess I get to see Milwaukee on TV tonight when I watch Tanaka Friday!
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Got a bad feeling that the Brewers great start has run its course.
Milwaukee started off 10-2, and has gone 12-11 since. Still good, and all the games count the same.
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Got a bad feeling that the Brewers great start has run its course.
Injuries will do that.
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Injuries will do that.
Still waiting for that Garza injury, myself.
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Injuries will do that.
Don't know how bad the Brewers injuries are but the White Sox are without their best starting pitcher as well as another on of their starter their best reliever and their starting CF, RF and 3B yet are somehow still .500. Really proud of what the Sox have done so far this year. Future looks bright.
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Injuries will do that.
Poor Brewers! Not injuries! But on the plus side Braun has another excuse if he's busted for roids again.
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Poor Brewers! Not injuries!
Right, because that's what he was saying, that the Brewers are the only team with injuries. Great post.
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Well, the Brew Crew took 2 out of 3 from the Yankees, without Braun, and drew over 130,000 for the weekend series. Not a bad weekend, I say!
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Well, the Brew Crew took 2 out of 3 from the Yankees, without Braun, and drew over 130,000 for the weekend series. Not a bad weekend, I say!
I almost threw something something at my TV when the Yanks pitcher threw the wild pitch in the 9th afte Texeira game saving homerun. The Brewers are defintely legit after watching them this weekend.
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So who here thought that Khris Davis would be a good answer in LF and an Overbay/Reynolds platoon would work out for a season?
I don't know if I have seen a team with such dismal production from positions that are usually so important offensively.
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Are the Brewers done managing their roster like it's a little league team yet? I'm 25 years old and have seen 2 Playoff appearances in my life. Contending years are precious. You don't worry about the potential of a player who won't be ready for at least 4 years and frankly isn't good at all while having to completely waste a roster spot, especially when you have 2 players on the roster who can only play second base already.
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Are the Brewers done managing their roster like it's a little league team yet? I'm 25 years old and have seen 2 Playoff appearances in my life. Contending years are precious. You don't worry about the potential of a player who won't be ready for at least 4 years and frankly isn't good at all while having to completely waste a roster spot, especially when you have 2 players on the roster who can only play second base already.
I have been around since the beginning of the Brewers franchise and have only seen four appearances. (And I'm including the 1981 Division Series when they lost a best of three to the Yankees due to the strike.)
And Weeks refused to move positions you know. I think he should be out in left field.
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I have been around since the beginning of the Brewers franchise and have only seen four appearances. (And I'm including the 1981 Division Series when they lost a best of three to the Yankees due to the strike.)
And Weeks refused to move positions you know. I think he should be out in left field.
Agreed on Weeks big time. Trade him now before he gets injured and then comes back batting .100.
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Is it just me or are there more injuries than usual this year. White Sox have already sent 10 players to the DL and all I keep seeing is pitchers having Tommy John surgery right and left.
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Is it just me or are there more injuries than usual this year. White Sox have already sent 10 players to the DL and all I keep seeing is pitchers having Tommy John surgery right and left.
DL appearances & Tommy John surgery sounds like a daily occurance this season.
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Is it just me or are there more injuries than usual this year. White Sox have already sent 10 players to the DL and all I keep seeing is pitchers having Tommy John surgery right and left.
That's mostly what happens when you stem the tide of PEDs in baseball. It used to be that the majority of PED users were doing so to bulk up; few were using just to stay healthy or recover from injury faster... now it seems like the opposite.
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That's mostly what happens when you stem the tide of PEDs in baseball. It used to be that the majority of PED users were doing so to bulk up; few were using just to stay healthy or recover from injury faster... now it seems like the opposite.
Logical
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Fiers or Nelson for Gallardo's next start? Fiers' numbers are gaudy, though two of his last three starts have been bad. Nelson hasn't had the incredible S/BB and deep inning games that Fiers has had, but he's had a quality start every time out.
I guess we haven't heard too much of Hank lately because of all the other stray dogs floating around: Bianchi, Overbay, Wang, Herrera.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/GenerousUnitedIriomotecat.gif)
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What's the deal with all the seagulls at yesterday's Yankees vs. Cubs game? Is that a regular occurrence at Wrigley?
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What's the deal with all the seagulls at yesterday's Yankees vs. Cubs game? Is that a regular occurrence at Wrigley?
Samardzija was pitching. Dude gets s--t on enough by his offense (see a month of May that features an 0.67 ERA and zero wins), so the birds must have wanted in on that action.
It was 80 degrees yesterday. It was the first truly hot day following a brutal winter and nonexistent spring. Gulls make their appearances at Wrigley, but yesterday was a case of circumstance -- heck, I was 15 miles from the lakeshore yesterday and couldn't help but think, "Where did all these damn gulls come from?!"
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Samardzija was pitching. Dude gets s--t on enough by his offense (see a month of May that features an 0.67 ERA and zero wins), so the birds must have wanted in on that action.
It was 80 degrees yesterday. It was the first truly hot day following a brutal winter and nonexistent spring. Gulls make their appearances at Wrigley, but yesterday was a case of circumstance -- heck, I was 15 miles from the lakeshore yesterday and couldn't help but think, "Where did all these damn gulls come from?!"
That's some good Scoopin' there. Beautiful.
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What's the deal with all the seagulls at yesterday's Yankees vs. Cubs game? Is that a regular occurrence at Wrigley?
They've been showing up for years.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/43/fc/9a/43fc9ad2b46d2ded4e2fb01f743b953b.jpg)
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Samardzija was pitching. Dude gets s--t on enough by his offense (see a month of May that features an 0.67 ERA and zero wins), so the birds must have wanted in on that action.
It was 80 degrees yesterday. It was the first truly hot day following a brutal winter and nonexistent spring. Gulls make their appearances at Wrigley, but yesterday was a case of circumstance -- heck, I was 15 miles from the lakeshore yesterday and couldn't help but think, "Where did all these damn gulls come from?!"
W-L is certainly up there for the worst stat in all of sports.
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Everyone keep your wits about you, Ron Roenicke may call you into the game without warning.
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That's mostly what happens when you stem the tide of PEDs in baseball. It used to be that the majority of PED users were doing so to bulk up; few were using just to stay healthy or recover from injury faster... now it seems like the opposite.
Correct (IMHO). This is why my position on PEDs has been one of complete apathy. It just doesn't bother me. I'm for more concerned with what happens on the field, than i am with what they choose to do to themselves.
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Correct (IMHO). This is why my position on PEDs has been one of complete apathy. It just doesn't bother me. I'm for more concerned with what happens on the field, than i am with what they choose to do to themselves.
+1
It never made sense to me why taking PEDs was enhancing one's performance, but moving a tendon from one part of the body to another was not.
Well, really, I do understand. It's all about the children. The precious children. We don't want to set bad examples for the poor little tykes.
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+1
It never made sense to me why taking PEDs was enhancing one's performance, but moving a tendon from one part of the body to another was not.
Well, really, I do understand. It's all about the children. The precious children. We don't want to set bad examples for the poor little tykes.
I think all the self-righteous indignation about PEDs is dumb as well, but you're drawing a pretty big false equivalency there. TJ surgery is performed by licensed doctors in a medical setting and has years of research backing up its efficacy and safety. It may have been more similar to PEDs when it was first developed, but now it has more in common with other repair surgeries than it does with PEDs.
There's a good argument to be made for relaxing some of the rules around PEDs (allowing those that are proven safe to be used) but MLB and MBLPA both have a strong interest in not authorizing players to use medically unproven drugs administered by people who aren't real doctors.
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+1
It never made sense to me why taking PEDs was enhancing one's performance, but moving a tendon from one part of the body to another was not.
Well, really, I do understand. It's all about the children. The precious children. We don't want to set bad examples for the poor little tykes.
I suppose I'd rather my kid emulate a professional athlete and get caught up in a high school PED bust than have my kid emulate a school teacher and get caught up in a high school pot/coke bust. But I'm definitely picking up what you're throwing down.
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I don't think everyone hates that they would use drugs to better their performance, but everyone hates that they are knowingly cheating. A dumb rule is still a rule. If the union wants to fight for it then let them fight for it.
People hate Braun a lot more because he is an awful, awful person and not because he used PED's.
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I don't think everyone hates that they would use drugs to better their performance, but everyone hates that they are knowingly cheating.
Hear what you're saying, but still don't care. Those demonstrating the righteous indignation about PED use because its cheating, are more than likely the same who celebrate the likes of Joe Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton, etc. (a couple of whom are in the hall of fame) who doctored balls, etc., as simply charming baseball lore. If its about knowingly cheating, those guys should be considered and treated no differently, so in that regard, I'm not sure I buy your argument.
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I think all the self-righteous indignation about PEDs is dumb as well, but you're drawing a pretty big false equivalency there. TJ surgery is performed by licensed doctors in a medical setting and has years of research backing up its efficacy and safety. It may have been more similar to PEDs when it was first developed, but now it has more in common with other repair surgeries than it does with PEDs.
There's a good argument to be made for relaxing some of the rules around PEDs (allowing those that are proven safe to be used) but MLB and MBLPA both have a strong interest in not authorizing players to use medically unproven drugs administered by people who aren't real doctors.
I don't dispute your point at all. As we saw from the NFL lawsuit this week, doctors and trainers gave prescription shots and pills to players so they wouldn't miss time. And if you remember back in the 60's and 70's, it was a common practice everywhere, not just in Chicago. But your point about untested drug and the regulation of PEDs is spot on.
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If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?
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If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?
Which is effing stupid considering his own teammate who is actually on the field every night, and is only injured when suspended, and who is having a much better season in a much tougher position to play (right next to him in center field) is in 6th place in the voting. Clueless people. Gomez may win the NL MVP.
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If everyone hates Braun so much, how is he in third place in All-Star voting among NL outfielders?
Is this really a question?
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Is this really a question?
Technically, it is a question because it is a sentence that ends in a question mark.
What it tells me is that most baseball fans don't think that failing a drug test and doing what Braun did to try to avoid punishment is that big a deal. They don't care about it, they care about how you play on the field.
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Technically, it is a question because it is a sentence that ends in a question mark.
What it tells me is that most baseball fans don't think that failing a drug test and doing what Braun did to try to avoid punishment is that big a deal. They don't care about it, they care about how you play on the field.
It's ballot stuffing, it means nothing.
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Fans of all 30 teams ballot stuff. You think just Brewers fans, in their small market, stuff the All-Star ballots?
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Fans of all 30 teams ballot stuff. You think just Brewers fans, in their small market, stuff the All-Star ballots?
I don't limit it to Brewers fans though, all dumb baseball fans.
However, the small market-teams are especially notorious at mass marketing the All-Star balloting.
Haven't seen a single email from Cubs.com or WhiteSox.com, but Brewers.com is routinely filling my Spam box with VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE BREWER IN THE 2014 ALL-STAR GAME!
The fact that Gomez is so far behind as a legit NLMVP only makes it perfect.
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Charlie Blackmon is leading all NL Outfielders in All-Star votes.
He's having a hell of a year, but how many (even casual) MLB fans can name what team he's on without looking it up?
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I don't limit it to Brewers fans though, all dumb baseball fans.
However, the small market-teams are especially notorious at mass marketing the All-Star balloting.
Haven't seen a single email from Cubs.com or WhiteSox.com, but Brewers.com is routinely filling my Spam box with VOTE FOR YOUR FAVORITE BREWER IN THE 2014 ALL-STAR GAME!
The fact that Gomez is so far behind as a legit NLMVP only makes it perfect.
Yup. Brewers fans always stuff the ballots. Players like Rickie Weeks end up in the top 3 of vote getters at 2B while hitting about .180 with 2x the strikeouts as hits. The Brewers send out people with ballots to fill out during games and send out emails, etc. They market the heck out of the All Star Game voting.
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W-L is certainly up there for the worst stat in all of sports.
It didn't used to be. It has become much more irrelevant. When pitchers would pitch more innings it was a better show of what they could do. Now when guys very rarely pitch into the 8th, there is a lot that can happen in the game after the starter is removed.
Samardzija is averaging a bit under 7 ip per start. That leaves alot of time for a terrible bullpen to be a big factor.
It doesn't matter though. Someone is going to hugely over pay for him. Keep in mind, while not old, he isn't young at 29, and even with how dominant he has been this season, his career ERA is just a tick below 4. He has been unreal this season, but there could be some serious regression to the mean coming on. The Cubs should trade him soon because for whatever reason, his career ERA in June is about 6.
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Yup. Brewers fans always stuff the ballots. Players like Rickie Weeks end up in the top 3 of vote getters at 2B while hitting about .180 with 2x the strikeouts as hits. The Brewers send out people with ballots to fill out during games and send out emails, etc. They market the heck out of the All Star Game voting.
You're from Chicago and you're complaining about a baseball team's fans stuffing an All-Star ballot box (which is completely within the rules)?
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You're from Chicago and you're complaining about a baseball team's fans stuffing an All-Star ballot box (which is completely within the rules)?
Nope, I'm from Milwaukee and am a Brewers fan. Not even complaining. Just saying that Brewers fans have always stuffed the All Star ballots.
I am a Braun "hater" and will only hope he does well because it helps the Brewers get wins. I find it incredibly embarrassing that Brewers fans would give him a standing ovation in his first at bat on Opening Day and not give stars like Lucroy, Gomez, and Segura, guys who by all accounts have reached this level doing it cleanly through hard work, standing ovations. Why give Braun a standing ovation? Because he got caught cheating and threw somebody else under the bus for opening up a loophole? I bought his BS and I will never again be a fan of his. So it is pretty disappointing that he's 3rd in the NL outfield votes while Carlos Gomez, who is much more deserving, is in 6th.
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How about Alexi Ramirez leading the SS for the AL all star vote. Would be a fantastic year to trade him at the deadline if you're the White Sox.
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Nope, I'm from Milwaukee and am a Brewers fan. Not even complaining. Just saying that Brewers fans have always stuffed the All Star ballots.
I am a Braun "hater" and will only hope he does well because it helps the Brewers get wins. I find it incredibly embarrassing that Brewers fans would give him a standing ovation in his first at bat on Opening Day and not give stars like Lucroy, Gomez, and Segura, guys who by all accounts have reached this level doing it cleanly through hard work, standing ovations. Why give Braun a standing ovation? Because he got caught cheating and threw somebody else under the bus for opening up a loophole? I bought his BS and I will never again be a fan of his. So it is pretty disappointing that he's 3rd in the NL outfield votes while Carlos Gomez, who is much more deserving, is in 6th.
I was not at Opening Day, but I've heard from someone who was there that the standing ovation wasn't quite as pervasive as the media and pundits have made it out to be.
These Brewer fans stuffing the box, they're not just voting for Braun and turning the ballot in, they're voting for all of the Brewers and turning the ballot in; perhaps some will not vote for guys like Weeks and Overbay who really don't deserve to be in the ASG, much less on the ballot, but take Jean Segura for instance who has the lowest tally of the Brewers in the top 5: I cannot fathom a situation where a Brewer fan voters punches a hole for anyone but Segura at SS... and yet, he's only tallied 202,000 votes so far. Moreover, when it comes to SS voting, a statistically non-existent number of non-Brewer fan voters are going to vote for Segura over Tulo (or any of the other candidates), so substantially all of Segura's votes are coming from Brewer fans. Therefore, it follows that Brewer fans - including the stuffers - have only turned in about 200,000 ballots thus far.
So if Braun has received 446,000 votes, over half of his tally is coming from voters who aren't Brewers fans.
I feel the same way you do about Braun, but you can't attribute his tally in the voting strictly to other Brewer fans stuffing the box. Take away the Brewer fans' votes, and he's still in 10th place. That's what's truly perplexing here.
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These Brewer fans stuffing the box, they're not just voting for Braun and turning the ballot in, they're voting for all of the Brewers and turning the ballot in; perhaps some will not vote for guys like Weeks and Overbay who really don't deserve to be in the ASG, much less on the ballot, but take Jean Segura for instance who has the lowest tally of the Brewers in the top 5: I cannot fathom a situation where a Brewer fan voters punches a hole for anyone but Segura at SS... and yet, he's only tallied 202,000 votes so far. Moreover, when it comes to SS voting, a statistically non-existent number of non-Brewer fan voters are going to vote for Segura over Tulo (or any of the other candidates), so substantially all of Segura's votes are coming from Brewer fans. Therefore, it follows that Brewer fans - including the stuffers - have only turned in about 200,000 ballots thus far.
So if Braun has received 446,000 votes, over half of his tally is coming from voters who aren't Brewers fans.
I feel the same way you do about Braun, but you can't attribute his tally in the voting strictly to other Brewer fans stuffing the box. Take away the Brewer fans' votes, and he's still in 10th place. That's what's truly perplexing here.
You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.
I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.
But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.
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You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.
I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.
But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.
Molina? Take that back!
as Benny posted, when we vote we vote Brew Crew only!
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You assume that every Brewer fan is an idiot who only votes for Brewers. You'd be surprised how many real Brewers fans there are who recognize that Tulo exists in a completely different universe than Segure, baseball wise.
I would expect most Brewer fans to vote for Braun because of his track record. I would also expect a good percentage of those Brewer voters also vote for Tulo, Posey, Molina, etc. I also expect Brewer fans are smart enough to see what Gomez has done and vote for him. But where Braun will get votes outside of Milwaukee, Gomez will not get near as many.
But, I see no logic in how you did the numbers in your post. You made up a theory and then a paragraph later, your theory became a fact used as a basis for your argument.
Tell me which you think is more plausible... A) that Brewers fans have "stuffed" 446,000 ballots for Braun, yet about half of those ballots contain votes for someone other than Lucroy, Aramis, Segura and Gomez at their respective positions or B) that more than 200,000 of Braun's 446,000 votes are coming from non-Brewer fans.
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Molina? Take that back!
as Benny posted, when we vote we vote Brew Crew only!
We know how good Lucroy is - I don't think fans nationally realize he belongs on the same level as Molina or Posey.
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I wrote in Hank the Dog at first base
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Is there really 2 pages on All Star voting? That is crazy.
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Boy, Samardizja really lived up to his June splits yesterday. Yikes.
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Looking at the odds futures this morning, I noticed that the Twins are 200:1 despite being only 4 games out in the division and 2.5 back in the wild card. Now granted, there is a logjam in the AL right now, but the last place team in the NL Central, Cincinnati, is only 40:1, yet they're 7 games back (though only 3 in the WC).
Granted these aren't the LVH odds, not to mention the Tigers are a world apart from the rest of the AL Central (irrespective of what the standings say), but 200:1 on Minny just seems like a bargain.
Tigers +650
Giants +750
Athletics +650
Dodgers +800
Cardinals +900
Blue Jays +1200
Nationals +1400
Braves +1200
Brewers +1300
Yankees +1400
Angels +1600
Red Sox +2000
Orioles +2400
Rangers +2800
Rays +3500
Reds +4000
Indians +6600
Rockies +5000
Royals +5000
Mariners +4800
White Sox +6600
Pirates +7500
Marlins +6500
Mets +9500
Phillies +15000
Twins +20000
Padres +20000
Cubs +25000
Dbacks +50000
Astros +50000
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Looking at the odds futures this morning, I noticed that the Twins are 200:1 despite being only 4 games out in the division and 2.5 back in the wild card. Now granted, there is a logjam in the AL right now, but the last place team in the NL Central, Cincinnati, is only 40:1, yet they're 7 games back (though only 3 in the WC).
Granted these aren't the LVH odds, not to mention the Tigers are a world apart from the rest of the AL Central (irrespective of what the standings say), but 200:1 on Minny just seems like a bargain.
Tigers +650
Giants +750
Athletics +650
Dodgers +800
Cardinals +900
Blue Jays +1200
Nationals +1400
Braves +1200
Brewers +1300
Yankees +1400
Angels +1600
Red Sox +2000
Orioles +2400
Rangers +2800
Rays +3500
Reds +4000
Indians +6600
Rockies +5000
Royals +5000
Mariners +4800
White Sox +6600
Pirates +7500
Marlins +6500
Mets +9500
Phillies +15000
Twins +20000
Padres +20000
Cubs +25000
Dbacks +50000
Astros +50000
Agree. The Twins are a much, much better longshot than San Diego, Philadelphia or the Mets. They're around .500 and Willingham and Arcia have missed most of the season (did Arcia just get hurt again?). Dozier has opened a lot of eyes this season.
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I think all the self-righteous indignation about PEDs is dumb as well, but you're drawing a pretty big false equivalency there. TJ surgery is performed by licensed doctors in a medical setting and has years of research backing up its efficacy and safety. It may have been more similar to PEDs when it was first developed, but now it has more in common with other repair surgeries than it does with PEDs.
There's a good argument to be made for relaxing some of the rules around PEDs (allowing those that are proven safe to be used) but MLB and MBLPA both have a strong interest in not authorizing players to use medically unproven drugs administered by people who aren't real doctors.
I have issue with this theory. If PEDs were legal in baseball they would be administered with the same "properness" that TJ surgery is or a cortisone shot is given. HGH and Steroids have legitimate healthcare uses and are administered in well researched and approved ways. What introduces the riskier behavior is the fact that it's illegal. If steroids and TJ surgery were considered the same thing there would be no issue. We have draw an arbitrary line in the sand as to what medical support is legal in sports and what is not.
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Agree. The Twins are a much, much better longshot than San Diego, Philadelphia or the Mets. They're around .500 and Willingham and Arcia have missed most of the season (did Arcia just get hurt again?). Dozier has opened a lot of eyes this season.
Left the game last night... ankle sprain. Didn't seem serious, but the Twins are a much better team with him healthy. Willingham-Arcia has to be one of the most potent offensive duos in baseball right now. Both are hitting 360+ in their last 10. Crazy that the Brewers split the 4-set with them this week.
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I have issue with this theory. If PEDs were legal in baseball they would be administered with the same "properness" that TJ surgery is or a cortisone shot is given. HGH and Steroids have legitimate healthcare uses and are administered in well researched and approved ways. What introduces the riskier behavior is the fact that it's illegal. If steroids and TJ surgery were considered the same thing there would be no issue. We have draw an arbitrary line in the sand as to what medical support is legal in sports and what is not.
True, but I don't think that there's any danger that Tommy John surgery or cortisone shots will be used without medical need to enhance performance.
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True, but I don't think that there's any danger that Tommy John surgery or cortisone shots will be used without medical need to enhance performance.
The only reason steroids present a danger is because people have to use them "illegally". Also cortisone can be abused to the point that it causes diabetes. Any surgery is risky. Obviously there is a difference in severity, but steroids can be perfectly safe, if used appropriately but it's forced into the shadows. Malcolm Gladwell had a really great article on this.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2013/09/09/130909crat_atlarge_gladwell?currentPage=all (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2013/09/09/130909crat_atlarge_gladwell?currentPage=all)
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Yup. Brewers fans always stuff the ballots. Players like Rickie Weeks end up in the top 3 of vote getters at 2B while hitting about .180 with 2x the strikeouts as hits. The Brewers send out people with ballots to fill out during games and send out emails, etc. They market the heck out of the All Star Game voting.
Whether you like it or not, much like almost all of the Brewers marketing/PR efforts, this is pretty good...
http://deadspin.com/brewers-catcher-jonathan-lucroys-anti-cardinals-all-sta-1592323001 (http://deadspin.com/brewers-catcher-jonathan-lucroys-anti-cardinals-all-sta-1592323001)
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IN. YOUR. FACE. Gibson, you POS
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IN. YOUR. FACE. Gibson, you POS
Get over it.
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Gibson has had a thing for Braun for some time.
http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/kirk-gibson-rips-ryan-braun/201059
So instead of intentionally walking him, inexplicably to face one of the hottest hitters in baseball who homered earlier in the game, he likely ordered the pitcher to plunk him. I mean I guess I can't blame Gibson for being pissed, but it makes you wonder if he let his biases get in the way of good baseball strategy.
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Get over it.
Sorry- been a Gibson hater for a long time. But he won't be around much longer.
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Sorry- been a Gibson hater for a long time. But he won't be around much longer.
No, no he won't be.
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Yeah, Gibson's a douche. Braun's a douche too.
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Didn't lohse hit 2 guys?
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Didn't lohse hit 2 guys?
Yes. What's your point?
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Yeah, Gibson's a douche. Braun's a douche too.
Very true.
But how many managers want to get into their own players head? Until it happens, Goldschmidt will have it in his mind in every plate appearance that he is going to get hit. But, I think Roenicke will wait a little while before retaliating.
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Very true.
But how many managers want to get into their own players head? Until it happens, Goldschmidt will have it in his mind in every plate appearance that he is going to get hit. But, I think Roenicke will wait a little while before retaliating.
They won't go after Goldschmidt, and he's not a bit worried about it.
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Very true.
But how many managers want to get into their own players head? Until it happens, Goldschmidt will have it in his mind in every plate appearance that he is going to get hit. But, I think Roenicke will wait a little while before retaliating.
Actually under Roenicke the Brewers generally don't retaliate. Not a big "unwritten rules" team.
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They won't go after Goldschmidt, and he's not a bit worried about it.
Not this series, but it will happen.
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Not this series, but it will happen.
#DoneDeal?
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Not a big "unwritten rules" team.
I thought it was called the Cardinal Way...Niw of course the Diamondback Way with LaRussa at the helm there, as he is of course the self-appointed keeper of the unwritten rules of baseball.
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Yes. What's your point?
Well when a pitcher on one team hits. 2 guys, usually a guy from that team can expect to be hit. Sorry didn't know you were new to baseball.
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Well when a pitcher on one team hits. 2 guys, usually a guy from that team can expect to be hit. Sorry didn't know you were new to baseball.
I don't think anyone minds Braun getting hit, but the fact that they did it to load the bases for Lucroy showed they cared more about sending a message than winning the game.
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Well when a pitcher on one team hits. 2 guys, usually a guy from that team can expect to be hit. Sorry didn't know you were new to baseball.
Guys who have been around the game know when a hit batter is intentional and when it is not. Sorry, didn't know you were new to baseball.
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Guys who have been around the game know when a hit batter is intentional and when it is not. Sorry, didn't know you were new to baseball.
Ummm, not sure where you got the idea that I thought it was incidental.
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Ummm, not sure where you got the idea that I thought it was incidental.
I was referring to the 2 D'bags hit - not Braun.
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It doesn't matter. Two guys get hit, intentional or not, there is probably some retaliation on the horizon.
In an unrelated story, someone taunted Ryan Howard with a "Ryan Howard listens to Nickelback" sign. That's gotta be one of the best taunts ever.
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It doesn't matter. Two guys get hit, intentional or not, there is probably some retaliation on the horizon.
No actually I haven't heard of many incidents of retaliation against clearly non-intentional HBP before.
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It doesn't matter. Two guys get hit, intentional or not, there is probably some retaliation on the horizon.
In an unrelated story, someone taunted Ryan Howard with a "Ryan Howard listens to Nickelback" sign. That's gotta be one of the best taunts ever.
Wow. That has to hurt.
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Wow. That has to hurt.
If it were 2005 it might be funny too.
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No actually I haven't heard of many incidents of retaliation against clearly non-intentional HBP before.
Agreed. It wasn't retaliation... that was just a convenient cover for the fact that Gibson just plain doesn't like Braun.
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Anyone else watch Kershaw last night? His curve looked like it was from a cartoon. Unreal.
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Anyone else watch Kershaw last night? His curve looked like it was from a cartoon. Unreal.
Saw the last few innings. Kinda funny that the guys on MLB network were predicting a Perfect game by the 3rd inning. That's how dominant his stuff was.
Kerry Wood's game is still the gold standard, though.
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The Cubs have played 29 home games and 41 games on the road, by far the lowest percentage of home games in the majors. I just thought that was an odd, given we're 70 games into the season.
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Saw the last few innings. Kinda funny that the guys on MLB network were predicting a Perfect game by the 3rd inning. That's how dominant his stuff was.
Kerry Wood's game is still the gold standard, though.
Kerry Wood's stuff during that game was ridiculous and I'm a brewer fan. Torque probably led to elbow troubles but just amazing movement.
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Saw the last few innings. Kinda funny that the guys on MLB network were predicting a Perfect game by the 3rd inning. That's how dominant his stuff was.
Kerry Wood's game is still the gold standard, though.
I don't know, Wood had more K's but Kershaw was unreal last night. He threw a higher % of strikes than Wood did in his game and had a better % of swings and misses. Kershaw was also perfect for 28 outs essentially. Wood was dominant, no doubt there, but he gave up a hit. Kershaw didn't, that plays into the dominance in my opinion, even though the hit Wood gave up wasn't exactly a screamer.
And if I am remembering correctly, in Felix's perfecto he didn't even need a special defensive play, he just dominated everyone.
There really isn't a wrong answer. I guess I'm just not sure how you can put one over the others. That was just something else. That game alone was worth the cost of mlb tv
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I don't know, Wood had more K's but Kershaw was unreal last night. He threw a higher % of strikes than Wood did in his game and had a better % of swings and misses. Kershaw was also perfect for 28 outs essentially. Wood was dominant, no doubt there, but he gave up a hit. Kershaw didn't, that plays into the dominance in my opinion, even though the hit Wood gave up wasn't exactly a screamer.
And if I am remembering correctly, in Felix's perfecto he didn't even need a special defensive play, he just dominated everyone.
There really isn't a wrong answer. I guess I'm just not sure how you can put one over the others. That was just something else. That game alone was worth the cost of mlb tv
Clayton was truly dominant. In wood's defense, the one hit he gave up was basically the same play were Tulo hit the ball to 3rd base - only hit softer with a faster runner.
Would be interesting to see how Kershaw's game scored on Bill James' Game Score Method. There have only been 9 games where a pitcher ever scored at least 100 points (Ryan and Koufax rank 2nd on the list with 101). Wood scored 105. I'm guessing Kershaw's game was probably the 10th to hit at least the 100 point mark.
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Clayton was truly dominant. In wood's defense, the one hit he gave up was basically the same play were Tulo hit the ball to 3rd base - only hit softer with a faster runner.
Would be interesting to see how Kershaw's game scored on Bill James' Game Score Method. There have only been 9 games where a pitcher ever scored at least 100 points (Ryan and Koufax rank 2nd on the list with 101). Wood scored 105. I'm guessing Kershaw's game was probably the 10th to hit at least the 100 point mark.
Came in at 102 - 2nd highest
http://mlb.si.com/2014/06/19/clayton-kershaw-no-hitter-historical-context/ (http://mlb.si.com/2014/06/19/clayton-kershaw-no-hitter-historical-context/)
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Thanx!
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So fellow Brewers fans...when will be the great collapse of 2014, and how will it going down? I am thinking August, with two west coast trips, separated by a week (how is that for scheduling quirk, @Cubs series, then @ Dodgers, home for the Jays and Buccos, then back out to west coast for @SD and @SF).
Most likely a combination of something stupid like a player running over Lucroy, Braun getting hurt again, and Gallardo crapting the bed.
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So fellow Brewers fans...when will be the great collapse of 2014, and how will it going down? I am thinking August, with two west coast trips, separated by a week (how is that for scheduling quirk, @Cubs series, then @ Dodgers, home for the Jays and Buccos, then back out to west coast for @SD and @SF).
Most likely a combination of something stupid like a player running over Lucroy, Braun getting hurt again, and Gallardo crapting the bed.
I am waiting for July 31st to make any further prognostications about August and beyond. For now, I'm sticking with the sole prognostication I made on page 1.
(For the record, the Crew is on pace for 96 wins right now, and Garza has yet to visit the DL.)
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I am waiting for July 31st to make any further prognostications about August and beyond. For now, I'm sticking with the sole prognostication I made on page 1.
(For the record, the Crew is on pace for 96 wins right now, and Garza has yet to visit the DL.)
I said at the beginning of the season that if Garza wins 14 games, the Crew is a lock for the Playoffs. I still stand by that.
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I'm not foreseeing a Brewers collapse this year. I think they might pick up a contributor or two before the end of July and then they continue to roll...
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I'm not foreseeing a Brewers collapse this year. I think they might pick up a contributor or two before the end of July and then they continue to roll...
I'm more interested in what other teams do before the end of July since it's difficult to imagine the Brewers picking up a contributor - let alone 2 - before the trade deadline. Brewers could use some help at 1B, SP#5, and OF depth.... otherwise, there really aren't any upgrades out there over what they already have.
I can't see a team giving up a SP before the Brewers look from within if Estrada can't get healthy or put it together (IMO - he's trying to work through a nagging injury or something else right now). There's no way the Brewers get Samardzjia or Hammel from the Cubs, and every other SP out there with an ERA under 3.00 is either under club control through 2015 and/or playing for a contender.
The only 1B free agents - who aren't currently on the DL or playing for a contender - are Dunn, Konerko, & Pena... and I'll take the Reynolds/Overbay platoon over any one of those three. The only way I see the Brewers getting help at 1B is if the Nationals swoon (or the Braves rebound) and Washington decides they don't want to pick up LaRoche's $15M option next year... in which case, the Brewers' better make the most of their next three games. Cuddyer would have been an interesting candidate, but it doesn't look like he's going to come back from the DL before the deadline. Beyond that, the Brewers simply don't have the farm depth to pull off a mid-season trade for a contributor who's still under club control after this year. It's a really weak year for mid-season trade options at 1B.
If anything, the Brewers will trade for OF depth before the deadline, but whoever they get isn't going to be an everyday contributor. Maybe they can entice SD into trading Seth Smith... his OBP alone would be just what the Brewers need either off the bench or in a platoon with Davis.
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I think they'd consider a two month rental on a free agent 1st Baseman. A Cuddyer type that could also play some outfield would be ideal. They could also get a lift at the bottom of the rotation from someone at AAA Nashville like Jimmy Nelson for the 2nd half.
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But of the three first basemen Benny mentioned, none are better than the current alternatives. Furthermore, neither Konerko nor Dunn can field. Cuddyer is not supposed to be back until August.
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I wouldn't mind getting a solid right-hander for the pen. Wooten is ok, Kintzler is garbage, Roenicke doesn't trust Fiers enough to pitch him at all, Thornburg and Henderson are hurt, and unless Thornburg returns to his April form and Henderson his 2013 form they aren't reliable. Find a veteran right hander and forget all of that noise.
Agree that an outfielder would be nice as well. Schafer should be back from his assignment soon - can't even hit AAA pitching well, but can at least play defense. Anything beats the disaster of Herrera in the outfield.
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Definitely going to need a bullpen arm. Forget a number 5 starter. Get a top line type guy or don't bother. Not really about making the playoffs so much anymore, more about trying to win once you get there. A back of the rotation guy doesn't do that. A top of the rotation guy does.
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I think they'd consider a two month rental on a free agent 1st Baseman. A Cuddyer type that could also play some outfield would be ideal. They could also get a lift at the bottom of the rotation from someone at AAA Nashville like Jimmy Nelson for the 2nd half.
The only other 1B/OF rental out there is a guy who wears sunglasses at night.
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The only other 1B/OF rental out there is a guy who wears sunglasses at night.
Seth Smith (SD), and Josh Willingham (MIN) are two outfielders at the end of their contracts who could very well be gone by July 31.
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Seth Smith (SD), and Josh Willingham (MIN) are two outfielders at the end of their contracts who could very well be gone by July 31.
In 11 seasons, Willingham has played a grand total of 3 games at 1B. That doesn't really qualify him as a 1B/OF player.
Smith has never played 1B in the majors.
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2nd best record in all of baseball and one player on the All Star team. I guess it's Mike Trout and 24 other guys.
Interesting.
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2nd best record in all of baseball and one player on the All Star team. I guess it's Mike Trout and 24 other guys.
Interesting.
Perhaps before each fan votes, each person should show a form of government ID. ;D
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Outside of Wieters, I don't think the fans did a bad job at all.
Sale needed to be on that team, has no business being in the Final Vote.
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I guess it's Mike Trout and 24 other guys.
Yep
(http://i62.tinypic.com/bevus5.jpg)
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Yep
(http://i62.tinypic.com/bevus5.jpg)
Trout would lead a lot of teams in all those categories.
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Trout would lead a lot of teams in all those categories.
Yep, nine others to be exact - NYY, TB, KC, MN, OAK, PHL, WAS, CIN, SD.
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Pujols is having a good year, but not better than Cabrera, E5, Abreu, Moss or VMart.
Who else do you want, Kendrick?
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Pujols is having a good year, but not better than Cabrera, E5, Abreu, Moss or VMart.
Who else do you want, Kendrick?
Richards, Weaver and Wilson are very good starters but a level below Chris Sale (who inexplicably didn't make the team).
No one would have objected to Pujols, but he was their only legit possibility and he's no better than a coin flip with Moss.
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I blame the liberal media and Hollywood elites for not supporting a team with a Christian team name.
/Chico'ed
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Perhaps before each fan votes, each person should show a form of government ID. ;D
Probably, especially since no free handouts involved. When free handouts and goodies are coming, no gov't id needed.
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Trout would lead a lot of teams in all those categories.
Maybe this year he gets awarded as the best player in baseball even though this will be the third year in a row he fits that bill.
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Pujols is having a good year, but not better than Cabrera, E5, Abreu, Moss or VMart.
Who else do you want, Kendrick?
I merely said it was interesting, but in my view Garrett Richards deserves to be on the team and if it wasn't for Jeter's swan song, Aybar. Honestly, I like it. A bunch of guys just doing their thing and playing good ball. Hope it continues. Playing in toughest division in baseball won't make it any easier.
Aybar has the highest WAR for SS in AL, leads SS in fielding in AL, in RBI for AL, etc. I realize that no one cares about fielding anymore, I guess I'm old school and that matters to me.
Richards, 10-2, opponents hitting .196 against him (best in AL), etc. Tough with pitchers, plenty of good guys that won't make it in that spot.
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A bunch of guys just doing their thing and playing good ball.
What a difference a year makes.
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What a difference a year makes.
Buzz Williams and Tom Crean concur
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Aybar has the highest WAR for SS in AL, leads SS in fielding in AL, in RBI for AL, etc. I realize that no one cares about fielding anymore, I guess I'm old school and that matters to me.
People care about fielding a lot, just not fielding pct. as a particularly good way to measure it. Aybar has a handful fewer errors that JJ Hardy, but Hardy has made dozens of extra plays. How much of that is park effects, pitcher's strikeouts when they're on the field, etc, has a lot to say about that. At any rate, I do agree that Aybar is a worthy guy, but basically throw him, Ramirez and Hardy in a hat as there isn't a ton of difference between them. I hate the Yankees and therefore Jeter, but even though his play this season may not deserve it, he certainly ought to be on the field for his last ASG, and I have no qualms with him starting.
Richards got caught in a numbers game. I'm a Red Sox fan, and Jon Lester has been very good, but Richards a slight tick better (and Sale a lot better though he's short in IP), but they had to take someone from the Red Sox. I thought it would be Uehara.
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People care about fielding a lot, just not fielding pct. as a particularly good way to measure it. Aybar has a handful fewer errors that JJ Hardy, but Hardy has made dozens of extra plays. How much of that is park effects, pitcher's strikeouts when they're on the field, etc, has a lot to say about that. At any rate, I do agree that Aybar is a worthy guy, but basically throw him, Ramirez and Hardy in a hat as there isn't a ton of difference between them. I hate the Yankees and therefore Jeter, but even though his play this season may not deserve it, he certainly ought to be on the field for his last ASG, and I have no qualms with him starting.
Richards got caught in a numbers game. I'm a Red Sox fan, and Jon Lester has been very good, but Richards a slight tick better (and Sale a lot better though he's short in IP), but they had to take someone from the Red Sox. I thought it would be Uehara.
I was being sarcastic around the MVP voting, where apparently fielding, base running, etc don't seem to matter.
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I was being sarcastic around the MVP voting, where apparently fielding, base running, etc don't seem to matter.
Sorry, I missed that. When evaluating baseball players, most people seem to have a big blind spot, which is that they only care about a player's best attribute, regardless of what that is. Ozzie Smith sails into the Hall of Fame because he was the best defensive shortstop ever, but Alan Trammell doesn't get a sniff even though overall he was about equal to Ozzie but was good at everything rather than being other-worldy at one thing. Trout is great at everything but people couldn't get past Cabrera's hit tool being better than any individual tool in Trout's bag, even though the sum of Trout's tools/contributions outweighed Cabrera's, particularly last year. Human nature, I guess.
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Sorry, I missed that. When evaluating baseball players, most people seem to have a big blind spot, which is that they only care about a player's best attribute, regardless of what that is. Ozzie Smith sails into the Hall of Fame because he was the best defensive shortstop ever, but Alan Trammell doesn't get a sniff even though overall he was about equal to Ozzie but was good at everything rather than being other-worldy at one thing. Trout is great at everything but people couldn't get past Cabrera's hit tool being better than any individual tool in Trout's bag, even though the sum of Trout's tools/contributions outweighed Cabrera's, particularly last year. Human nature, I guess.
For normal people, I agree. For the voters of these awards, who are supposed to be able to see the full picture and everything that person does, it's hard to defend.
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It is a case of new school versus old school. In '12, the voters (rightfully, IMO) rewarded the first triple crown in 45 years. Last year, the argument was the classic about whether a really good player on a .500 team should be rewarded over a really good player on a playoff team. Age old arguments. Good for beer summits. I freely acknowledge that Mike Trout is the most impressive young player in the game. He is awesome. I would choose him first if I was starting a team. But there were compelling arguments for someone other than him to be the MVP the last two years.
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And they're choosing the most valuable player, not the best player. If one guy leads a team to a title while another leads a team to mediocrity (or worse) the former can be deemed more valuable even if he's not "the best" player.
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Some stat guy is going to know this instantly but at the moment I can't remember. Since Andre Dawson in '87 with the Cubs, has there been an MVP from a team with a <.500 record?
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Some stat guy is going to know this instantly but at the moment I can't remember. Since Andre Dawson in '87 with the Cubs, has there been an MVP from a team with a <.500 record?
ARod in 2003 comes to mind.
Edit: Ripken in 1991 as well came to my mind.
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Was Yount's Brewers team any good?
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Was Yount's Brewers team any good?
good enough to play in a World Series in '82 and damn close in '81
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good enough to play in a World Series in '82 and damn close in '81
Well, he didn't win a MVP award in '81. However, he did in '89 and they were exactly .500.
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And they're choosing the most valuable player, not the best player. If one guy leads a team to a title while another leads a team to mediocrity (or worse) the former can be deemed more valuable even if he's not "the best" player.
Except one guy in a sport like baseball can't do it by himself. You can have a guy hit 70 HRs, but if the pitching staff is horrendous it doesn't mean much. It's not basketball where one guy can dominate a game, be involved in most of the plays for 48 minutes. Baseball, you get 3 ABs, usually 4 out of a minimum of 27. Your ability to dominate a game is much much smaller.
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It is a case of new school versus old school. In '12, the voters (rightfully, IMO) rewarded the first triple crown in 45 years. Last year, the argument was the classic about whether a really good player on a .500 team should be rewarded over a really good player on a playoff team. Age old arguments. Good for beer summits. I freely acknowledge that Mike Trout is the most impressive young player in the game. He is awesome. I would choose him first if I was starting a team. But there were compelling arguments for someone other than him to be the MVP the last two years.
I would love to see what the Angels would have done playing in the AL Central the last few years, one year alone I believe the AL Central had 4 of the 5 worst pitching staffs in the AL. Baseball is a game of stats, but of course each team plays different teams more often than others based on their division. Some guys can get very fat on some really bad pitching, much like the Halos did this weekend against the Astros. Unfortunately for the Halos, they have to face Oakland and Seattle a bunch, and Texas (this year decimated by injuries). It matters.
As for the record of the team, just a bit of irony but Trout's Angels had a BETTER record than Cabrera's Tigers two years ago, but because the Halos played in the AL West, they didn't go to the playoffs but the Tigers did.
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I would love to see what the Angels would have done playing in the AL Central the last few years, one year alone I believe the AL Central had 4 of the 5 worst pitching staffs in the AL. Baseball is a game of stats, but of course each team plays different teams more often than others based on their division. Some guys can get very fat on some really bad pitching, much like the Halos did this weekend against the Astros. Unfortunately for the Halos, they have to face Oakland and Seattle a bunch, and Texas (this year decimated by injuries). It matters.
As for the record of the team, just a bit of irony but Trout's Angels had a BETTER record than Cabrera's Tigers two years ago, but because the Halos played in the AL West, they didn't go to the playoffs but the Tigers did.
There are teams that can make the same argument almost every year.
And you do realize that if it wasn't for the effects of elevation at Coors Field, the two worst staffs in the league this year are in the AL West.
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As for the record of the team, just a bit of irony but Trout's Angels had a BETTER record than Cabrera's Tigers two years ago, but because the Halos played in the AL West, they didn't go to the playoffs but the Tigers did.
Yeah, but there was no way that advanced sabermetrics were ever going to overcome the first Triple Crown since 1967. Particularly if the triple crown winner goes to the playoffs.
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I would love to see what the Angels would have done playing in the AL Central the last few years, one year alone I believe the AL Central had 4 of the 5 worst pitching staffs in the AL. Baseball is a game of stats, but of course each team plays different teams more often than others based on their division. Some guys can get very fat on some really bad pitching, much like the Halos did this weekend against the Astros. Unfortunately for the Halos, they have to face Oakland and Seattle a bunch, and Texas (this year decimated by injuries). It matters.
As for the record of the team, just a bit of irony but Trout's Angels had a BETTER record than Cabrera's Tigers two years ago, but because the Halos played in the AL West, they didn't go to the playoffs but the Tigers did.
So last year the Royals had the best team ERA, the Tigers were 3rd and the Indians 7th. That is 3 in the top half. The Sox were 9th and the Twins a miserable 14th. By comparison, the west had the A's at 2nd, the Rangers at 4th, the Angels, Mariners and Stros coming at 11, 13, and 15 respectively. Advantage Central
You probably were thinking 2012, when the Tigers were 3rd, the Sox tied for 8th (with the Halos) followed by the Royals (10) Twins (13) and Indians (14). So 3 in the bottom 5. Advantage West
But that can certainly be skewed by giant parks like Oakland and Seattle compared with places like Chicago and Cleveland.
Since 2010, the only year the Angels would have a complaint is 2012 when they won 89 and missed the playoffs. Hard luck, but hardly the best team to miss the playoffs because of division alignments. Other wise they have been a mid 80 win team.
I find the Trout v Cabrera argument to be very compelling. I certainly see both sides. The last 2 seasons, Cabrera has been the best hitter. Over those 2 years, Cabrera has a lot more HR, better BA, better OBP, better SLG (so OPS too), more hits, less K's, and did a lot of it through injuries. He has been a monster.
Trout on the other hand has been the better player, when you factor in what he does on defense (though Cabrera was certainly capable last year at third), and on the base paths (though interestingly enough, their SB% the last 2 years is just about the same. Slight difference in attempts though)
I understand people pining for Trout and saying he should have won, but when you look at what Cabrera did, there isn't a complaint that makes sense. His composite OPS was over 1.000 for those 2 years, just unreal. He has just been a hitting machine. He is basically a lock for 40 doubles, 35 hr, 120 RBI and .325/.400/.550 over his career and even better than that the last 5 years.
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Hey Brewers Fans
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-brewers-healthy-stealthy-starting-rotation/
Fangraphs checks in on the starting rotation. The tl;dr version is that the solid staff should get the brewers to the playoffs but probably won’t carry them all the way.
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Hey Brewers Fans
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-brewers-healthy-stealthy-starting-rotation/
Fangraphs checks in on the starting rotation. The tl;dr version is that the solid staff should get the brewers to the playoffs but probably won’t carry them all the way.
Personally, I love the first comment:
Jimmy Nelson says:
July 8, 2014 at 9:33 am
You forgot about me.
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So last year the Royals had the best team ERA, the Tigers were 3rd and the Indians 7th. That is 3 in the top half. The Sox were 9th and the Twins a miserable 14th. By comparison, the west had the A's at 2nd, the Rangers at 4th, the Angels, Mariners and Stros coming at 11, 13, and 15 respectively. Advantage Central
You probably were thinking 2012, when the Tigers were 3rd, the Sox tied for 8th (with the Halos) followed by the Royals (10) Twins (13) and Indians (14). So 3 in the bottom 5. Advantage West
But that can certainly be skewed by giant parks like Oakland and Seattle compared with places like Chicago and Cleveland.
Since 2010, the only year the Angels would have a complaint is 2012 when they won 89 and missed the playoffs. Hard luck, but hardly the best team to miss the playoffs because of division alignments. Other wise they have been a mid 80 win team.
I find the Trout v Cabrera argument to be very compelling. I certainly see both sides. The last 2 seasons, Cabrera has been the best hitter. Over those 2 years, Cabrera has a lot more HR, better BA, better OBP, better SLG (so OPS too), more hits, less K's, and did a lot of it through injuries. He has been a monster.
Trout on the other hand has been the better player, when you factor in what he does on defense (though Cabrera was certainly capable last year at third), and on the base paths (though interestingly enough, their SB% the last 2 years is just about the same. Slight difference in attempts though)
I understand people pining for Trout and saying he should have won, but when you look at what Cabrera did, there isn't a complaint that makes sense. His composite OPS was over 1.000 for those 2 years, just unreal. He has just been a hitting machine. He is basically a lock for 40 doubles, 35 hr, 120 RBI and .325/.400/.550 over his career and even better than that the last 5 years.
Yes, two years ago and my point then was switch Angels with Tigers...Halos wouldn't have to face the Tigers pitching staff nearly as often. Tigers had a much easier time winning the division, the Angels despite having a better record and having to play much better competition couldn't get it.
That explains partly why Detroit went 13-20 against the AL West that year. Whereas the Halos went 25-20 against the AL Central.
That was my point with Trout as well. Trout had to face in his own division Oakland (#2 staff), Seattle (#4 staff), Texas (#7 staff)...Houston wasn't in the division yet. Cabrera faced Cleveland (#14 staff & worst staff in AL), Minnesota (#13 staff & 2nd worst staff in AL), Kansas City (#10 staff), and ChiSox (#9 staff). Who got fatter on crappy pitching?
There are plenty of complaints that make sense against Cabrera...starting with fielding, running, etc. Otherwise he would have won the award unanimously, which he didn't. Is it a hitting award?
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Give it up already. Yes, Trout is a great player.
But only a homer would argue that a Triple Crown winner didn't deserve the MVP.
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Except one guy in a sport like baseball can't do it by himself. You can have a guy hit 70 HRs, but if the pitching staff is horrendous it doesn't mean much. It's not basketball where one guy can dominate a game, be involved in most of the plays for 48 minutes. Baseball, you get 3 ABs, usually 4 out of a minimum of 27. Your ability to dominate a game is much much smaller.
No disagreement. But suppose one guy is worth 7 wins but his team only wins 82 games and misses the playoff. It's not his fault, but what real "value" has he produced. One could even argue the team would have been better off without those 7 extra wins and higher draft choices. Another guy worth 6 wins on a team that wins 93 games can be the difference between going home empty and having a shot at a World Championship. He may not have been as good as the former player but he certainly was more valuable.
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Hey Brewers Fans
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-brewers-healthy-stealthy-starting-rotation/
Fangraphs checks in on the starting rotation. The tl;dr version is that the solid staff should get the brewers to the playoffs but probably won’t carry them all the way.
I'm not sold this team makes the playoffs, even with their above average rotation. Their bullpen is perilously thin, an issue compounded by keeping Wang on the 25 man roster. The bench is pitiful. And they don't do the things right that contending teams do. They can't advance runners. Their situational hitting is terrible. They swing at crap. All the time. Not to mention the boneheaded outs they make on the basepaths.
Yeah, they've made it through half a season in good position. But I think this stretch is when the regression really kicks in.
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Brew Crew will have to make some moves to get serious 'bout winnin' this year
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Brew Crew will have to make some moves to get serious 'bout winnin' this year
Been saying it throughout.
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I'm not sold this team makes the playoffs, even with their above average rotation. Their bullpen is perilously thin, an issue compounded by keeping Wang on the 25 man roster. The bench is pitiful. And they don't do the things right that contending teams do. They can't advance runners. Their situational hitting is terrible. They swing at crap. All the time. Not to mention the boneheaded outs they make on the basepaths.
Yeah, they've made it through half a season in good position. But I think this stretch is when the regression really kicks in.
The bullpen's overall performance this year despite Wang's enduring presence should be, by most measures, a testament to its strength. Pitching is not the problem with this team... it's more than good enough to get them into the post-season. Hitting is what will decide how deep that post-season run will be.
Advancing runners, situational hitting, swinging at crap are all euphemisms for the underlying problem... too many K's.
Brewers need two things at the trade deadline - a RH reliever with an above-average K:BB ratio and an OF reserve who has an above average BB:K ratio.
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Is it a hitting award?
Usually it is yeah. And those arguments don't hold up to his offensive production.
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Brew Crew will be lucky to hold third place in the central. Lots of early lucky wins and hot pitching not happening anymore...
But glad they don't need a bench player instead of a pitcher slot that will never be used...
And I heard Estrada made the All-Star game - to be the designated pitcher for the home run derby...
Meanwhile, Jimmy Nelson wins another in Triple A....
Hey wait, another base running error....
Brew Crew will have to make some moves to get serious 'bout winnin' this year
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Usually it is yeah. And those arguments don't hold up to his offensive production.
They should rename the award then....perhaps use Greg Luzinski as the trophy model.
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Brew Crew will be lucky to hold third place in the central. Lots of early lucky wins and hot pitching not happening anymore...
But glad they don't need a bench player instead of a pitcher slot that will never be used...
And I heard Estrada made the All-Star game - to be the designated pitcher for the home run derby...
Meanwhile, Jimmy Nelson wins another in Triple A....
Hey wait, another base running error....
Relax kid. They still hold the best record in the NL. You thought they were going to continue to keep their pace towards 100 wins from day 1 through day 162?
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They should rename the award then....perhaps use Greg Luzinski as the trophy model.
Just look at the history of the award. Usually goes to the best offensive player.
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Give it up already. Yes, Trout is a great player.
But only a homer would argue that a Triple Crown winner didn't deserve the MVP.
I like the Cubs and Trout should have been MVP. The Triple Crown is some arbitrary thing that a writer made up 100 years ago. What if he decided the Triple Crown should be HR, BA and SB? RBIs are totally dependent on who bats in front of you. Trout led off for most of that season as I remember.
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They should rename the award then....perhaps use Greg Luzinski as the trophy model.
Because Greg Luzinski was the best hitter of his generation...wait, no. That was Miguel Cabrera. Luzinski didn't make the team picture in his generation.
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Relax kid. They still hold the best record in the NL. You thought they were going to continue to keep their pace towards 100 wins from day 1 through day 162?
No kidding. Despite the terrible last week or two they are still sitting there with the best record in the NL, and people can still find reasons to complain. Seriously, what are the expectations for this team? Do they really need to win 100 games for some people to be happy?
Personally, my hope was that they would be in the playoff race into the final week of the season. That obviously looks highly likely at this point, and likely better than that. The Cardinals will still be heard from. Were always going to be, but, save for a bunch of injuries, there is little to indicate the Brewers are going to play sub-.500 ball the rest of the year, which is pretty much what it would take for them to remove themselves from playoff contention.
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Because Greg Luzinski was the best hitter of his generation...wait, no. That was Miguel Cabrera. Luzinski didn't make the team picture in his generation.
That wasn't my point. If we're going to reward the MVP trophy for the best hitter, change the name of the award. Otherwise, it might as well just be a fat, beer belly, softball award...aka Greg Luzinski the perfect model (as in picture, not ability). Should have been clearer.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---rEQ_SWY--/mthl41npzqy0iata8khn.gif)
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I like the Cubs and Trout should have been MVP. The Triple Crown is some arbitrary thing that a writer made up 100 years ago. What if he decided the Triple Crown should be HR, BA and SB? RBIs are totally dependent on who bats in front of you. Trout led off for most of that season as I remember.
Yup. Thanks for quoting Brand, he's on ignore for me but your response was correct. I guess the other guys that voted for Trout were "homers". He's the all around best player in baseball, which also makes him the most VALUABLE player in baseball. Run, hit, throw, play defense. That = value whether he is in the batter's box, playing center field, running the bases.
They should rename the award.
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Yup. Thanks for quoting Brand, he's on ignore for me but your response was correct. I guess the other guys that voted for Trout were "homers". He's the all around best player in baseball, which also makes him the most VALUABLE player in baseball. Run, hit, throw, play defense. That = value whether he is in the batter's box, playing center field, running the bases.
They should rename the award.
So, we should keep the nickname defined as a racial slur and change MVP award to the Greg Luzinski award because your guy didn't get it.
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Yup. Thanks for quoting Brand, he's on ignore for me but your response was correct. I guess the other guys that voted for Trout were "homers". He's the all around best player in baseball, which also makes him the most VALUABLE player in baseball. Run, hit, throw, play defense. That = value whether he is in the batter's box, playing center field, running the bases.
They should rename the award.
Good grief man let it go. Trout is an astounding player. So is Cabrera. Cabrera won. You're more bent outta shape here than I was when frank lost to roid monster Giambi.
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Yup. Thanks for quoting Brand, he's on ignore for me but your response was correct. I guess the other guys that voted for Trout were "homers". He's the all around best player in baseball, which also makes him the most VALUABLE player in baseball. Run, hit, throw, play defense. That = value whether he is in the batter's box, playing center field, running the bases.
They should rename the award.
Sorry, but "best" is not "most valuable".
Trout is obviously the "best" player on the Angels this year, but if the 2nd half is like the 1st half, Garrett Richards will be the most valuable player on the team. Without him, the Angels are just another team struggling to make it as a wild card.
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Glad to see Aybar get in today.
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Agreed. It wasn't retaliation... that was just a convenient cover for the fact that Gibson just plain doesn't like Braun.
Benches cleared over some unintentional stuff yesterday in the cubs reds game. Just so everyone can make note of it.
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Looks like the Brew Crew has shot their load, hey?
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Benches cleared over some unintentional stuff yesterday in the cubs reds game. Just so everyone can make note of it.
Unintentional?
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Sure, it sucks the Brewers pissed away a 6.5 game lead in just under two weeks, but it could very well turn into a war of attrition very soon (if it hasn't already), and so far, the Brewers have avoided having to put a key player (or two) on the DL for an extended period of time, something the Reds and Cards don't have the benefit of claiming.
Depending on who does what at the trade deadline, the bottom line is that there are nearly 30 games remaining to be played within a mini-division of the Brewers, Cards, and Reds (most of those being in September), and that's where the division will be won. With Molina on the shelf until mid-September (at least), Phillips out until late-August, Votto going back on the DL, and Wacha not being evaluated until next week, the Brewers are in a decent place to at least hold serve, if not regain a little bit of a cushion, before September callups.
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Cards fans still crying about the Lucroy All Star Game commercials? The guy is as quiet/underhyped of a stud as you will find in professional sports.
The Brewers are doing everything they can to win themselves home field advantage for the World Series in spite of their manager. Starting the best defensive center fielder in baseball in left? Hitting a guy who is batting .340 in the 8 hole? Grow a pair and play the guys where they deserve to be played rather than being all butthurt about some tongue in cheek commercials Matheny. Not to mention playing favorites and starting Wainwright over Kershaw.
Gotta love that all 5 AL runs have come against STL pitchers and Brewers players have gone 3-6 and have played a part in every run the NL has scored so far. But the Brewers are so damn unprofessional!
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Brewers: 4-7, 1 Run, 2 RBIs. 1 IP, 0 H, 0 ER
Keepers of Baseball Etiquette: 1.1 IP, 6 H, 5 ER
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So, we should keep the nickname defined as a racial slur and change MVP award to the Greg Luzinski award because your guy didn't get it.
We should keep Redskins because over 70% of Native Americans don't have an issue with it, and it is a private business in which a private business can do whatever the hell it wants.
MVP, well "valuable" is not defined for the BBWAA, so it's always going to be ambiguous. It is what it is. I made my argument, others will make theirs. I would love to have seen Mike Trout against that AL Central pitching staffs two years ago and with Prince Fielder hitting behind him and in a stadium that doesn't kill baseballs like California stadiums do. However, that isn't going to happen so I'm just going to keep going to games and enjoy this 22 year old kid, he's pretty valuable.
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Ah.... the LaRussa legacy.
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We should keep Redskins because over 70% of Native Americans don't have an issue with it, and it is a private business in which a private business can do whatever the hell it wants.
What could possibly be wrong with a derogatory name for a people against whom we committed genocide so we could steal their land?
The ultimate sin is that Snyder and the NFL think the name belongs to them - as long as the suffering of the "Redskins" can be used for profit. Americans who support these types of epitaphs should be embarrasses and ashamed.
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What could possibly be wrong with a derogatory name for a people against whom we committed genocide so we could steal their land?
The ultimate sin is that Snyder and the NFL think the name belongs to them - as long as the suffering of the "Redskins" can be used for profit. Americans who support these types of epitaphs should be embarrasses and ashamed.
Great, I'm glad the baseball thread is going to turn into the same thread we have already had a million times with this crap.
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Back to baseball, after watching Clayton Kershaw pitch for an inning last night I don't know how anyone ever gets a hit off that guy. Quirky mechanics and filthy stuff.
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I would love to have seen Mike Trout against that AL Central pitching staffs two years ago and with Prince Fielder hitting behind him and in a stadium that doesn't kill baseballs like California stadiums do.
Comerica Park is a pitcher's park.
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Comerica Park is a pitcher's park.
From FanGraphs Ballpark Factors, Angels and Tigers ballpark factors are the same in both 2012 and 2013
Angels Ballpark Factor - 95 (decreases offense by 5%)
Tigers Ballpark Factor - 103 (increases offense by 3%)
They base this data, if I understand correctly and in the broadest terms, by comparing runs scored and allowed in home and road games.
Comerica is slightly a pitchers park with respect to HRs (99 both seasons) which may be why you think it is a pitchers park.
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Correct. When I say 'pitcher's park', I am referring to home runs.
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Hahaha Cards fans blaming Lucroy for Wainwright sucking. Absolutely hilarious. Hey Cards fans, blame your own manager for playing favorites and starting Wainwright over the guy who really deserved to start (Kershaw). And while you're at it, thank Lucroy for getting Wainwright off the hook for the loss. Too had your own other pitcher had to take the loss. That must've been Lucroy's fault too, from the bench. Awesome.
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Comerica Park is a pitcher's park.
Absolutely. Remember when it first opened it was even bigger and they had to push the fences in.
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Hahaha Cards fans blaming Lucroy for Wainwright sucking. Absolutely hilarious. Hey Cards fans, blame your own manager for playing favorites and starting Wainwright over the guy who really deserved to start (Kershaw). And while you're at it, thank Lucroy for getting Wainwright off the hook for the loss. Too had your own other pitcher had to take the loss. That must've been Lucroy's fault too, from the bench. Awesome.
Here's the thing. Individually, Cardinals' fans are some of the nicest people I have met. I have been to Cardinals games in at least three ballparks, and I can't say I have had a bad experience with a single one of them.
But collectively they can be so annoying.
I'm wondering if that's how the Packer fan base is viewed?
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Hahaha Cards fans blaming Lucroy for Wainwright sucking. Absolutely hilarious. Hey Cards fans, blame your own manager for playing favorites and starting Wainwright over the guy who really deserved to start (Kershaw). And while you're at it, thank Lucroy for getting Wainwright off the hook for the loss. Too had your own other pitcher had to take the loss. That must've been Lucroy's fault too, from the bench. Awesome.
Actually, Wainwright is the one who admitted to throwing Jeter a meatball, and Lucroy knew nothing about it... he actually wanted the pitch down and away. Regardless of whether or not Wainwright was joking, that's not something Wainwright says if his battery-mate was in the wrong.
Wainwright:
“I was going to give him a couple pipe shots. He deserved it,” Wainwright said. “I didn’t know he was going to hit a double or I would have changed my mind. I thought he was going to hit something hard to the right side for a single or an out. But I probably should have pitched him a little better.”
But I agree, Cardinals fans... keep blaming Lucroy for that one.
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Hahaha Cards fans blaming Lucroy for Wainwright sucking. Absolutely hilarious. Hey Cards fans, blame your own manager for playing favorites and starting Wainwright over the guy who really deserved to start (Kershaw). And while you're at it, thank Lucroy for getting Wainwright off the hook for the loss. Too had your own other pitcher had to take the loss. That must've been Lucroy's fault too, from the bench. Awesome.
Seriously, who cares?
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Seriously, who cares?
Well, I wouldn't care if the Cardinals made a clearly tongue-in-cheek commercial to get their fans to vote for their players by mocking the Brewers, yet their fans found issue with it. Now if it ended there it would be fine, they took offense to something that was clearly a joke, it happens. But instead they continue to keep going, blaming their player's performance on a Brewer. :'( :'( :'( is all I see/hear. Especially when that Brewers player had the best game of any NL player, and the Brewers as a whole showed better than any time. Honestly, it's not like it really matters, it's an All Star game and it's for fun. But that's the point. It's for fun. Cards fans need to relax and quit being so butthurt over something so stupid. Heck, even their manager took it so seriously he slighted Lucroy and Gomez by batting them 8th and 9th and playing Gomez in LF despite being the best defensive CF in the game.
Here's the thing. Individually, Cardinals' fans are some of the nicest people I have met. I have been to Cardinals games in at least three ballparks, and I can't say I have had a bad experience with a single one of them.
But collectively they can be so annoying.
I'm wondering if that's how the Packer fan base is viewed?
You're probably right. I haven't really been around Cardinals fans at all as a whole to be honest. The only time I can remember was one game at Miller Park against them and we had a middle aged man with his family sitting by us, and his family quietly sat there as he yelled "Get outta here, get outta here ball!" at pop flies that fell about 100 yards short of the warning track every time the Cardinals were up. But there are those fans everywhere.
I just think it's absolutely hilarious that not only does their team act like they are the definition of what is "acceptable" in baseball, and if they don't agree in even the slightest bit with another team then you sure as heck are going to hear about it. And now their fans have taken that on as their own identity as well.
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Back to baseball, after watching Clayton Kershaw pitch for an inning last night I don't know how anyone ever gets a hit off that guy. Quirky mechanics and filthy stuff.
That guy is just unreal.
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Back to baseball, after watching Clayton Kershaw pitch for an inning last night I don't know how anyone ever gets a hit off that guy. Quirky mechanics and filthy stuff.
He is just fun to watch.
And love watching Sale pitch to lefties.
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He is just fun to watch.
And love watching Sale pitch to lefties.
As a Sox fan, I just love watching Sale pitch. The Sox haven't had a pitcher as dominant as he is in quite a while.
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That guy is just unreal.
Until the playoffs
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Until the playoffs
Yeah, he certainly is no john lackey ::)
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Comerica Park is a pitcher's park.
According to what stat?
Currently, Comerica Park is ranked as the 7th best hitting park in the MLB out of 30 stadiums. Angel Stadium ranked 18th.
Compared to Angels Stadium, or any of the west coast stadiums where the marine layer keeps runs down, it really isn't that close of a comparison. Comerica does have foul ball territory to help pitchers, but the warm air, great power alleys, etc, don't make it a pitcher's park statistically speaking which is saying something, especially with a staff like the Tigers have.
Whether is ESPN, Bill James, Fantasy Baseball sites, I can't find any that has Comerca ranked as a top pitcher's park, and certainly not above Angels stadium.
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Yeah, he certainly is no john lackey ::)
I was at this game, never forget it. Go Halos. He pitched great, as a rookie starting game 7 and didn't phase him one bit.
(http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/john-lackey-angels.jpg?w=320)
Lackey doesn't have Kershaw's stuff. Kershaw needs to be better than he has been in the playoffs.
1-3, 4.23 ERA overall. In the NLCS, he is 0-3 with a 7.23ERA
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Less than an hour from the border. I'll be at the Rogers Center tomorrow night to see the Jays. :o
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Less than an hour from the border. I'll be at the Rogers Center tomorrow night to see the Jays. :o
Let me know how it is. Not much time to get away this year, so my annual baseeball trip with my son will be to Atlanta to see the Braves a couple times next weekend.
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Will do. Waiting to cross at Niagara Falls now. I'll be in Atlanta in August and Braves are home but won't have time to go as I'm stopping over on our way to Florida
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Let me know how it is. Not much time to get away this year, so my annual baseeball trip with my son will be to Atlanta to see the Braves a couple times next weekend.
The Rogers Center / Skydome was a good watch. They opened the roof and it was a perfect sunny evening in Toronto. We were sitting in left field about 6 rows from the field, but the lower outfield level hangs over the wall so it didn't feel as close. My 11 year old loves Melky Cabrera since he wad a Yankee so it was good to sit behind him in the outfield to keep the kids interested. We couldn't see the Jumbotron in center field from where we sat but that was indicated when I bought the tickets. Loudest place I saw game. Toronto is a way better baseball town than I thought and there were blue shirts everywhere the whole weekend. Game was a near sell-out. Beer was the same price as Yankee Stadium. And our friends from Ontario recommended taking the subway to downtown and it was a good call.
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Until the playoffs
I get what you are saying, but 27 teams would trade their Number 1 starter straight up for Kershaw to start Game 1 of the playoffs. Seattle probably wouldn't and St. Louis might not. His xFIP is 3.69 in the postseason, 3.19 overall in his career.
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I get what you are saying, but 27 teams would trade their Number 1 starter straight up for Kershaw to start Game 1 of the playoffs. Seattle probably wouldn't and St. Louis might not. His xFIP is 3.69 in the postseason, 3.19 overall in his career.
Of course. He is the best pitcher in baseball.
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The Rogers Center / Skydome was a good watch. They opened the roof and it was a perfect sunny evening in Toronto. We were sitting in left field about 6 rows from the field, but the lower outfield level hangs over the wall so it didn't feel as close. My 11 year old loves Melky Cabrera since he wad a Yankee so it was good to sit behind him in the outfield to keep the kids interested. We couldn't see the Jumbotron in center field from where we sat but that was indicated when I bought the tickets. Loudest place I saw game. Toronto is a way better baseball town than I thought and there were blue shirts everywhere the whole weekend. Game was a near sell-out. Beer was the same price as Yankee Stadium. And our friends from Ontario recommended taking the subway to downtown and it was a good call.
Thanks for the update. I've been to 23 MLB ballparks (to be fair, that includes the 3 different Yankee Stadiums, and 2 different parks each for the White Sox, Mets and Brewers) but haven't yet been to Toronto. My favorite ballpark is Kaufman Stadium in Kansas City.
How was the drive from CT? Seems quite a haul.
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Thanks for the update. I've been to 23 MLB ballparks (to be fair, that includes the 3 different Yankee Stadiums, and 2 different parks each for the White Sox, Mets and Brewers) but haven't yet been to Toronto. My favorite ballpark is Kaufman Stadium in Kansas City.
How was the drive from CT? Seems quite a haul.
CT Warrior - 23 is impressive. I've only got eleven (11) including old & new Yankee Stadium, new White Sox, old Brewers, old Mets Shea Stadium and the now defunct Olympic Stadium for an Expos game. Yankee stadium excluded, my last three have been Toronto this year, Tropicana Field in St. Pete's last year, Minute Maid in Houston the year before. We may work in a Nationals game in August depending on how our visit to DC unfolds.
For this trip, we left Conn. for Niagara Falls at 6:30AM and pulled into our hotel around 2:15pm (includes a 25 min wait at the border). A straight shot up Rt-8 to I-90 and then I-90 all the way to Canada. I-90 doesn't go through any big cities in upstate NY, so it's a very easy ride across. Toronto is only 1hr / 1hr&15min from Niagara Falls. (It took us longer as we visited a few of the many wineries on the way.)
My wife and I like and don't mind long road trips. DVDs occupy the kids for hours. We've done a drive out to Milwaukee once, Myrtle Beach twice, Florida twice (soon three). Last year on our drive to Florida we left Conn. at 5:30AM and arrived in our hotel in Orlando exactly at midnight. We're through Conn. & NYC before rush hour and arrive in the Philly area after rush hour and the traffic is good passing through DC around 11:00/Noon timeframe and then there is absolutely nothing between DC & Jacksonville, FL (unless you chose the option that goes by Richmond) with a 70mph speed limit. Nothing like having your own car when on vacation.
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I get what you are saying, but 27 teams would trade their Number 1 starter straight up for Kershaw to start Game 1 of the playoffs. Seattle probably wouldn't and St. Louis might not. His xFIP is 3.69 in the postseason, 3.19 overall in his career.
You may have to put the white sox there as well. Sale is a monster, signed long term and very affordable. He's not as good as Kershaw but the value is there.
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This morning, all three NL divisions are tied, with all 6 teams basically within a game of one another. Just a touch of parity heading toward the trade deadline and pennant races.
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You may have to put the white sox there as well. Sale is a monster, signed long term and very affordable. He's not as good as Kershaw but the value is there.
As good as Sale is, his days are numbered.
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As good as Sale is, his days are numbered.
Hard to see him still being effective at 30 with that arm action. Hard on the body.
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Hard to see him still being effective at 30 with that arm action. Hard on the body.
Even 30 maybe a miracle
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No actually I haven't heard of many incidents of retaliation against clearly non-intentional HBP before.
Just happened again. In the Sox-Royals game tonight.
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As good as Sale is, his days are numbered.
Yeah, he doesn't have the perfect mechanics of Jose Fernandez, Adam Wainwright, Matt Moore, Matt Harvey, or Ben Sheets.
He may be injured, but it probably won't have anything to do with his arm slot or his delivery. Trying to prognosticate what pitchers will be injured, especially based on their motions is just silly.
He is probably most similar to Randy Johnson in terms of build and motion, and he pitched until he was 104.
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Just happened again. In the Sox-Royals game tonight.
I think there is some history here. I believe these are the 5th & 6th hit batters in games between KC and CWS this year.
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I think there is some history here. I believe these are the 5th & 6th hit batters in games between KC and CWS this year.
Not really. There is nothing obvious anyways. Even when they are terrible, I watch the Sox religiously, I can't think of any bad blood with the royals
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Yeah, he doesn't have the perfect mechanics of Jose Fernandez, Adam Wainwright, Matt Moore, Matt Harvey, or Ben Sheets.
He may be injured, but it probably won't have anything to do with his arm slot or his delivery. Trying to prognosticate what pitchers will be injured, especially based on their motions is just silly.
He is probably most similar to Randy Johnson in terms of build and motion, and he pitched until he was 104.
This is a gimmick, right?
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Not really. There is nothing obvious anyways. Even when they are terrible, I watch the Sox religiously, I can't think of any bad blood with the royals
I couldn't find any either. 6 hit batters just seemed like a lot between two teams. And I don't think there were any games where there was more than one - until tonite.
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This dude has been to every ballpark and ranks them all. Pretty cool. I'm not a guy who's dieing to get to them all, but totally understand the people who are.
http://natsinsider.com/2014/07/24/ranking-all-30-mlb-ballparks/
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This dude has been to every ballpark and ranks them all. Pretty cool. I'm not a guy who's dieing to get to them all, but totally understand the people who are.
http://natsinsider.com/2014/07/24/ranking-all-30-mlb-ballparks/
Been to many, hope to get to them all. Everyone, of course, will have different rankings. My bias is showing, but how Dodger stadium can rank that high is beyond me. It's a dump in my opinion. Has been showing it's age for the last 20 years.
PNC is fabulous. KC, actually I would put in top 5. Love Petco as well. He definitely has the last 3 correct, at least based on my visits there.
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Been to many, hope to get to them all. Everyone, of course, will have different rankings. My bias is showing, but how Dodger stadium can rank that high is beyond me. It's a dump in my opinion. Has been showing it's age for the last 20 years.
PNC is fabulous. KC, actually I would put in top 5. Love Petco as well. He definitely has the last 3 correct, at least based on my visits there.
I haven't been to many (just 2 Brewers, White Sox, old Twins, Reds, Braves, and Astros I believe), so I couldn't really tell you if Minute Maid is overrated or Miller Park is underrated, but there's no way you put Minute Maid 8 spots above Miller. They're the same ballpark and everything he knocks Miller Park for can be said exactly for Minute Maid. I'd even say I think more highly of Miller just because there is more to do, both inside and outside the park. Inside you have an area for younger kids to play around at in Miller Park and you have TGI Friday's. Outside obviously tons of parking to tailgate. Plus there's seating around the entire park and the seats actually angle towards home plate. Minute Maid outside you have a giant convention center and just city streets around it. Inside there's really nothing besides 1 bar on the opposite side of the main hallway from the field and the fan shop. Plus it's a baseball field built into a rectangular building, so there is no seating from CF to LF minus a few rows where they made a 320 foot wall straight down left. It's a building that a football field would be better suited for. Also, I was sitting between 1B and RF and the seats were not angled towards home plate at all. If I looked straight forward I was looking square at the LF wall. Had to either sit on the edge of your seat or crank your neck the whole game to watch the actual game. And the only reason he can come up with for Miller Park not being as good as lost of the others in the league holds exactly true for Minute Maid: there is absolutely no background scenery to be seen from inside the park whatsoever.
I pretty much disagree with everything the guy wrote about Minute Maid especially when I compare it to Miller. He says it's especially nice when the roof is open at Minute Maid. That was the best thing they had going for them (well, that and the open seating policy...get tickets for $10 from a scalper and sit 5th row, not bad, and they proudly advertise that). Thought it was amazing that the air conditioned that thing. No warmer than 70 degrees in there and it was 90 degrees outside when we went. That was the 1 big plus about that stadium, in my opinion.
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I think he ranks Camden Yards a little too high. They were the first of the new wave of faux-retro ballparks, and it was brilliant at the time. But a lot of the subsequent ones I've been to (Philadelphia and Cleveland come to mind) are slightly improved versions. Hit the nail on the head about Pittsburgh, which is just beautiful. I liked KC better, but I'm sure I'm in the minority there.
The problem with all of the newer ballparks is that the expensive seats are great and the cheaper upper deck seats are terrible. First time I went to Camden Yards we were in the upper deck and the seats were miserable and we ended up going out toward Boog's BarBQ and watching from beyond the centerfield fence because we could see the game better. I read somewhere that the closest upper deck seat in Camden Yards is farther from the field than the farthest upper deck seat was at the old Memorial Stadium. I don't know if its true, but it sure feels that way.
My advice to anyone traveling to see ballparks is to pony up the cash and get the best seats you can afford. My wife is away visting with her mother so my son and I decided two weeks ago to visit another ballpark, and flew down to Atlanta last Friday morning for two games. Got the 6th row behind the visitors dugout Friday and the 11th row behind the home dugout on Saturday. Got the tickets on Stubhub for less than face value. By the way, that's a very nice park though a bit generic and Atlanta is very hot and the pre-game traffic is terrible. Feels brand new but they're already leaving.
Finally, the NY stadiums are just terrible, easily the worst two of the new parks I've been to.
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The guy has a thing for being able to see city skylines from the Stadium. Don't get me wrong. It's nice and all, but the couple times I have been to Miller Park, which in no way has a nice scenery, they have a lot of fun at the games and keep people entertained.
OTOH, I have been to Target Field, and while the park is very nice, it's kind of dull. (And the food was terrible.)
I agree with CTWarrior with regard to tickets. If I have a set amount of money to go to baseball games in a given year, I would go to less of them, but get good seats.
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Very interesting couple of days between Brewers and Rays upcoming...on the one hand if the Brewers beat up on the Rays, they all but guarantee that they will trade David Price, likely to the Cardinals or Dodgers. Good to win the games, but not so good for the remainder of the season/playoffs. On the other hand, if the Tays beat up on the Brewers, the Brewers take a hit in the standings, but it becomes more likely that the Rays hang onto Price. Finally, it now appears that the Brewers may actually be in the mix for Price. Will be interesting to see what happens.
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Very interesting couple of days between Brewers and Rays upcoming...on the one hand if the Brewers beat up on the Rays, they all but guarantee that they will trade David Price, likely to the Cardinals or Dodgers. Good to win the games, but not so good for the remainder of the season/playoffs. On the other hand, if the Tays beat up on the Brewers, the Brewers take a hit in the standings, but it becomes more likely that the Rays hang onto Price. Finally, it now appears that the Brewers may actually be in the mix for Price. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Really? Where did you see that. I'm not sure who we have to give up in order to get him, talk about a depleted farm system as it is...but that would be real nice. Just bring him along on the flight out of Tampa!
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The Brewers are one of the teams who have asked about Price, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal reports. A source tells Rosenthal that the Crew just put their “foot in the water” of the Price sweepstakes, so it remains to be seen if Milwaukee was making a due diligence move or if they have a deeper interest. As Rosenthal notes, the Brewers would be “a long shot” to end up with Price given the relative lack of depth in their farm system (especially compared to the Cardinals and other teams connected to Price) and their ability to afford Price’s possible $20MM salary through arbitration in 2015.
https://www.youtube.com/v/zMRrNY0pxfM
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Certainly would appear to be a long shot, but obviously a pretty strong track record (Sabathia and Grineke) suggest it is well within the realm of possibilities. All of that said however, their starting staff was no whe near as strong as it is now in either of those instances. If they truly were to make a play for him, it is about winning in the playoffs (not just getting there) and also keeping him away from the Cardinals or Dodgers.
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Or maybe they are driving up the Price (ha ha) that the Cardinals would have to pay.
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Certainly would appear to be a long shot, but obviously a pretty strong track record (Sabathia and Grineke) suggest it is well within the realm of possibilities. All of that said however, their starting staff was no whe near as strong as it is now in either of those instances. If they truly were to make a play for him, it is about winning in the playoffs (not just getting there) and also keeping him away from the Cardinals or Dodgers.
While the track record is good, the prospects are no longer there.
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I'm good with getting a bat or two for the bench and rolling. Should take about $3 and a Uecker autographed glove to get upgrades over Schafer and Herrera/Bianchi/Falu.
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The guy has a thing for being able to see city skylines from the Stadium. Don't get me wrong. It's nice and all, but the couple times I have been to Miller Park, which in no way has a nice scenery, they have a lot of fun at the games and keep people entertained.
OTOH, I have been to Target Field, and while the park is very nice, it's kind of dull. (And the food was terrible.)
I agree with CTWarrior with regard to tickets. If I have a set amount of money to go to baseball games in a given year, I would go to less of them, but get good seats.
MLB Rule 1.04 says that it is most desirable to orient the stadium so that a line from home plate to second base shall point ENE. Too bad Bud had to bend the rule on that one.
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Jon Lester scratched from tomorrow's start, seems like he will be on the move. I've heard the Pirates are a possible destination. That would be a huge pick up for them. The O's and M's have also been linked to Lester. It will be interesting to see where he ends up. He can certainly be a game changing addition.
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Pirates probably need Lester to hang with Brewers and Cards down the stretch. Now, if one of those two teams were to get him (sounds like Brewers no longer involved), that would probably put them over the top in the division (assuming no major acquisitions by the other).
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Jon Lester scratched from tomorrow's start, seems like he will be on the move. I've heard the Pirates are a possible destination. That would be a huge pick up for them. The O's and M's have also been linked to Lester. It will be interesting to see where he ends up. He can certainly be a game changing addition.
Looks like he's going to the A's with Jonny Gomes for Yoenis Cespedes. Great trade for the Red Sox, I think. Cespedes much better than a sandwich draft pick is likely to be for compensation when they lost him to free agency. A's are going all in to win now.
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Looks like he's going to the A's with Jonny Gomes for Yoenis Cespedes. Great trade for the Red Sox, I think. Cespedes much better than a sandwich draft pick is likely to be for compensation when they lost him to free agency. A's are going all in to win now.
The A's just completely monopolized the starting pitching trade market. They might as well have traded to get Price just for craps and giggles (who is going nowhere). Chicos, your Angels don't have the pieces to make a counter move. Good thing the A's can never seem to get over the hump that is the ALCS.
A's make another trade with the Twinkies.
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A's make another trade with the Twinkies.
A decent left-handed starter who isn't a free agent until 2018 for an average 4th/platoon outfielder who they had DFA'd in April. Think they're looking to win this year?
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Morneau activated from the DL this morning. I have a feeling he's not going to be in a Rockies uniform this weekend.
The question is whether Melvin has the cohones to trade Jimmy Nelson to Colorado.
Lefty bat
Top 10 BA in MLB
OPS 4th in NL amongst 1B
Ridiculous 2014 splits in the clutch
Decent splits against SF, LAD and STL (with whom the Brewers have a combined 22 games remaining)
Seems to me that he could be the centerpiece of what the Brewers' offense is missing.
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Morneau activated from the DL this morning.
He's played the last two games at Wrigley, (totaling about 150 hours of baseball).
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He's played the last two games at Wrigley, (totaling about 150 hours of baseball).
Well there you go. He's an Ironman, too.
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Morneau activated from the DL this morning. I have a feeling he's not going to be in a Rockies uniform this weekend.
The question is whether Melvin has the cohones to trade Jimmy Nelson to Colorado.
Lefty bat
Top 10 BA in MLB
OPS 4th in NL amongst 1B
Ridiculous 2014 splits in the clutch
Decent splits against SF, LAD and STL (with whom the Brewers have a combined 22 games remaining)
Seems to me that he could be the centerpiece of what the Brewers' offense is missing.
No way would I trade five years of cost controlled Nelson for 2 months of Justin Morneau.
Edit - My fault, I see it's a 2 year contract for Morneau. Still though, that's a lot to invest in a 33 year old first baseman. I certainly love the idea, I just feel that Nelson is too steep a price.
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No way would I trade five years of cost controlled Nelson for 2 months of Justin Morneau.
Edit - My fault, I see it's a 2 year contract for Morneau. Still though, that's a lot to invest in a 33 year old first baseman. I certainly love the idea, I just feel that Nelson is too steep a price.
+1. If it doesn't involve Nelson I'm all for it.
Well there you go. He's an Ironman, too.
An ironman? 152 games played last year and 134 the year before are both good, but 69 and 81 games played the 2 previous years.
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An ironman? 152 games played last year and 134 the year before are both good, but 69 and 81 games played the 2 previous years.
He played 150 hours of baseball in two days. You're right, he's no ironman... he's like a carbon-fiber-titanium man.
BTW - Not big on the Gerardo Parra trade. The only thing he's got going for him is that his career BA is higher in only two other extant NL stadiums than it is at Miller Park (Wrigley & Citi).
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The A's just completely monopolized the starting pitching trade market. They might as well have traded to get Price just for craps and giggles (who is going nowhere). Chicos, your Angels don't have the pieces to make a counter move. Good thing the A's can never seem to get over the hump that is the ALCS.
A's make another trade with the Twinkies.
I have bigger concerns, like finishing with the 2nd best record in all of baseball and having to play a one game playoff. Sucks to be the AL West the last few years.
I doubt seriously we make any moves.
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Nice flexibility by adding Parra. Splits leave him as a toss-up with Davis against RHP so worth filling in against tough righties, but moreover a useful option off the bench to spell any OF position where Schafer couldn't even be stomached...below average offense of Parra being a huge upgrade over completely inept of Schafer. Would hope for an IF utility/1B upgrade too, but that can be had in August.
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At this point - with an hour left before the NWTD - Tampa Bay is probably getting antsy to move Price, but I'm sure they want a young, MLB pitcher in return. I don't think any other contender can offer more than the Brewers on that front. Though since Melvin hasn't parted with Nelson by this point, he's probably not going to.
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At this point - with an hour left before the NWTD - Tampa Bay is probably getting antsy to move Price, but I'm sure they want a young, MLB pitcher in return. I don't think any other contender can offer more than the Brewers on that front. Though since Melvin hasn't parted with Nelson by this point, he's probably not going to.
The Rays have no reason at all to move Price. With him under control through next year, you can see how hot you stay and see if you can make a Playoff push in the awful AL East and then trade him in the offseason, or better yet, hang onto him for next year and if you aren't playing well you trade him at next year's deadline. No reason to trade him now.
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The Rays have no reason at all to move Price. With him under control through next year, you can see how hot you stay and see if you can make a Playoff push in the awful AL East and then trade him in the offseason, or better yet, hang onto him for next year and if you aren't playing well you trade him at next year's deadline. No reason to trade him now.
8 games out at the end of July is not insurmountable if you're in second place. But the Rays have three teams in front of them for the division and five teams in front of them for the 2nd wild card spot. Nate Silver would be screaming "trade" right now.
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8 games out at the end of July is not insurmountable if you're in second place. But the Rays have three teams in front of them for the division and five teams in front of them for the 2nd wild card spot. Nate Silver would be screaming "trade" right now.
Plus he's more valuable now than he is this off-season or at next year's trading deadline. If you pick him up now, he can effect two pennant races.
But if I'm the Rays, I've got to think 2015 is the best chance I'm going to have for a long while and I'm going to keep him.
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David Price is a Tiger. Austin Jackson and Drew Smyly are leaving.
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Plus he's more valuable now than he is this off-season or at next year's trading deadline. If you pick him up now, he can effect two pennant races.
But if I'm the Rays, I've got to think 2015 is the best chance I'm going to have for a long while and I'm going to keep him.
Well, they traded him to the Tigers, the last team that needed him. I don't know what the Tigers gave up yet, but is Price really that much better than Verlander/Scherzer/Sanchez?
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Arms race. Countered Oakland's move. Gave up a young starter and a starting CF. Dombrowski just pushed his chips to the middle of the table.
And it won't matter. With the exception of the starting rotation, Cabrera, V Martinez, and Kinsler, Detroit is below average. No dirtbags. No one I expect to raise their game in the playoffs. Several I expect to do worse in the playoffs. Maybe it will be enough, but in my heart of hearts, I think Mr. I is disappointed yet again.
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I detest Kirk Gibson and the D'backs. This was after they went after Braun following one of their guys getting accidently hit. Now they have done the same to one of the best in MLB - Andrew McCutchen - knocking him out for at least a month.
My true baseball high would be some opposing player going into the D'bags dugout and kicking Gibson's a$$. But since that isn't gonna happen, here is the next best thing.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/arizona-diamondbacks-kirk-gibson-paul-kevin-towers-andrew-mccutchen/
This paragraph sums them up well:
Where they cross the line is by throwing at hitters. Let’s call it what it is: an institutional policy, set in place by Towers and enforced by Gibson, of responding to hurt feelings with violence. In spring training games, blowout losses, and late and close situations, Arizona’s pitchers have intentionally hit opposing teams’ star players. Other teams hit batters on purpose, but nobody does it as often or as routinely as the Diamondbacks do. They’ll do it to retaliate for accidental hits-by-pitches, they’ll do it out of spite, and they’ll do it because they’re losing.
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Last August, Gibson had harsh words for Ryan Braun, who was then about to be suspended for PED use. Gibson, never one to miss an opportunity to pander to his base, said he’d confront Braun to his face. Which, of course, he didn’t. Gibson took that personal, testosterone-charged anger to the press, and then, in June of this year, congratulated Evan Marshall for hitting Braun to load the bases with a one-run lead.
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Price is in line to make $18+ million in arbitration this offseason. There was no way the Rays could afford that. Every GM in baseball knew he was going to be traded at the deadline or the offseason and the Rays were smart to make the deal when opposing GMs had the incentive pay more for the chance to use Price in the 2014 post season.
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Baez! 2015 World Series campaign starts tonight! I expect him to go 4-5 with 2 doubles and a home run. Plus 3 of the top 10 plays on tomorrow's SC.
Between Baez, Castro, Rizzo, and Bryant, plus the veteran leadership of phenoms Corey Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mark Prior, Soto, Pie, and Hee Seop Choi, we are golden.
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Baez! 2015 World Series campaign starts tonight! I expect him to go 4-5 with 2 doubles and a home run. Plus 3 of the top 10 plays on tomorrow's SC.
Between Baez, Castro, Rizzo, and Bryant, plus the veteran leadership of phenoms Corey Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mark Prior, Soto, Pie, and Hee Seop Choi, we are golden.
The saddest part is that the funniest part of that last statement is including Castro in there...
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The saddest part is that the funniest part of that last statement is including Castro in there...
A three time all-star shortstop with a slash line of .328/.423/.751 that is under 25 and with a very team-friendly contract?
Pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing good asset.
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Baez! 2015 World Series campaign starts tonight! I expect him to go 4-5 with 2 doubles and a home run. Plus 3 of the top 10 plays on tomorrow's SC.
Between Baez, Castro, Rizzo, and Bryant, plus the veteran leadership of phenoms Corey Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mark Prior, Soto, Pie, and Hee Seop Choi, we are golden.
Not sure why Samardzija is in there, but Baez is exciting. Problem with CPat, Pie and Choi was the internal hype that was created they would never live up to it. The new farm system has the scouts hype for once in their history.
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A three time all-star shortstop with a slash line of .328/.423/.751 that is under 25 and with a very team-friendly contract?
Pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing good asset.
Yawn. The guy makes more unforced errors than just about anybody I've watched.
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Yawn. The guy makes more unforced errors than just about anybody I've watched.
Hilarious, coming from a guy that was so excited about Segura's production last year, which is under those numbers.
The errors thing is good too considering Castro and Segura both have 12 errors this season, and Castro has played more games.
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Hilarious, coming from a guy that was so excited about Segura's production last year, which is under those numbers.
The errors thing is good too considering Castro and Segura both have 12 errors this season, and Castro has played more games.
I was 100% excited about Segura's production last year. He was a stud. His defense is still outstanding. I'll take a defensive star at SS at 24 years old in his 2nd season who struggles at the plate over a SS who has all the physical tools in the world but is the same average player at 24 in his 5th season that he was at 19 (not trying to say Jean is a better overall player, just that Starlin is incredibly overrated...Puig Lite in terms of physical tools that underperform partly due to mental lapses).
I'm going to go ahead and give Segura a pass on 3 of his errors that came within a week of him returning from the death of his 9 month old son. That might be just me though.
Last year Jean had 199 put outs and 459 assists with just 15 errors (.978 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of 1.0, in his first full season playing shortstop. Compare that with Starlin's 238 put outs and 416 assists with 22 errors (.967 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of -0.3.
And this year Jean has 127 put outs with 330 assists and 12 errors (.974 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of 1.0, compared to 124 put outs and 326 assists with 12 errors (.974 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of -0.2.
So sure Castro has played more innings, but he has had less opportunities. Defensively Jean is just as much better than Castro as Castro is better than Jean offensively. A SS who has a negative defensive WAR is a pretty big problem.
But hey, why not just pick 2 statistics (innings/errors) and paint a broad picture with them?
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I was 100% excited about Segura's production last year. He was a stud. His defense is still outstanding. I'll take a defensive star at SS at 24 years old in his 2nd season who struggles at the plate over a SS who has all the physical tools in the world but is the same average player at 24 in his 5th season that he was at 19 (not trying to say Jean is a better overall player, just that Starlin is incredibly overrated...Puig Lite in terms of physical tools that underperform partly due to mental lapses).
I'm going to go ahead and give Segura a pass on 3 of his errors that came within a week of him returning from the death of his 9 month old son. That might be just me though.
Last year Jean had 199 put outs and 459 assists with just 15 errors (.978 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of 1.0, in his first full season playing shortstop. Compare that with Starlin's 238 put outs and 416 assists with 22 errors (.967 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of -0.3.
And this year Jean has 127 put outs with 330 assists and 12 errors (.974 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of 1.0, compared to 124 put outs and 326 assists with 12 errors (.974 fielding percentage) and a defensive WAR of -0.2.
So sure Castro has played more innings, but he has had less opportunities. Defensively Jean is just as much better than Castro as Castro is better than Jean offensively. A SS who has a negative defensive WAR is a pretty big problem.
But hey, why not just pick 2 statistics (innings/errors) and paint a broad picture with them?
Just like painting a yawn on Castro...
No doubt, Castro's career WAR will surpass Segura.
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Just like painting a yawn on Castro...
No doubt, Castro's career WAR will surpass Segura.
Overall WAR yes. Defensive WAR? No chance. By the time Castro figures it out from neck up he'll be so diminished physically it won't matter.
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Overall WAR yes. Defensive WAR? No chance. By the time Castro figures it out from neck up he'll be so diminished physically it won't matter.
Neither is more important than the other.
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Neither is more important than the other.
Nope. But at SS I'll personally take a player who is better defensively and struggles offensively vs. a player who struggles defensively but is better offensively.
And again, I'm not saying Jean is a better player than Castro. I'm just saying that at 19 years old Castro was supposed to be the next big thing in baseball, the can't miss prospect, and 5 years later he is the exact same player he was at 19 years old. In fact, Castro has gotten worse over the last 2 years than he was his first 3 years.
(Although, if we are looking at overall WAR, Jean's WAR last year - first full season in the majors - is higher than any year in Castro's career, and Jean's WAR this year is higher than Castro's is this year.)
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Nope. But at SS I'll personally take a player who is better defensively and struggles offensively vs. a player who struggles defensively but is better offensively.
And again, I'm not saying Jean is a better player than Castro. I'm just saying that at 19 years old Castro was supposed to be the next big thing in baseball, the can't miss prospect, and 5 years later he is the exact same player he was at 19 years old. In fact, Castro has gotten worse over the last 2 years than he was his first 3 years.
(Although, if we are looking at overall WAR, Jean's WAR last year - first full season in the majors - is higher than any year in Castro's career, and Jean's WAR this year is higher than Castro's is this year.)
?
Starlin Castro - WAR (2014)
Fangraphs: 2.1
Baseball Reference: 1.1
Jean Segura - WAR (2014)
Fangraphs: -0.1
Baseball Reference: 0.5
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?
Starlin Castro - WAR (2014)
Fangraphs: 2.1
Baseball Reference: 1.1
Jean Segura - WAR (2014)
Fangraphs: -0.1
Baseball Reference: 0.5
My bad, read it wrong on ESPN.
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Baez! 2015 World Series campaign starts tonight! I expect him to go 4-5 with 2 doubles and a home run. Plus 3 of the top 10 plays on tomorrow's SC.
Between Baez, Castro, Rizzo, and Bryant, plus the veteran leadership of phenoms Corey Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mark Prior, Soto, Pie, and Hee Seop Choi, we are golden.
This entire quote was well played. Baez's first ML hit was a game-winning HR. Welcome to the majors.
For the record, I fully expect a lot of games like last night for Baez the rest of the season. A couple strikeouts, 1-5 overall with a HR or double.
BTW, you forgot Soler (who will be up before Bryant). Plus Almora, Russell, and Schwarber (2016). The future is bright
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This entire quote was well played. Baez's first ML hit was a game-winning HR. Welcome to the majors.
For the record, I fully expect a lot of games like last night for Baez the rest of the season. A couple strikeouts, 1-5 overall with a HR or double.
BTW, you forgot Soler (who will be up before Bryant). Plus Almora, Russell, and Schwarber (2016). The future is bright
And then let's buy Max Scherzer this offseason to go along with Kyle Hendricks and Jake Arrieta and you have a decent staff. Even though the Cubs drafted a ton of pitchers this year I have a feeling the staff will be made through free agency.
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And then let's buy Max Scherzer this offseason to go along with Kyle Hendricks and Jake Arrieta and you have a decent staff. Even though the Cubs drafted a ton of pitchers this year I have a feeling the staff will be made through free agency.
Lester sounds more like he'll be their #1 target this offseason. I also think at some point the Cubs will flip some players for another big pitcher.
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This could be total BS but I heard that Lester is basically on rent to the A's right now and that he and the Red Sox already have a deal worked out for him to return this offseason. Baseball tonight was talking about this during their trade deadline special.
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Not sure why Samardzija is in there, but Baez is exciting. Problem with CPat, Pie and Choi was the internal hype that was created they would never live up to it. The new farm system has the scouts hype for once in their history.
Good points all around. It's exciting to finally have the payoff of the last 5 years or so begin to materialize at the major league level.
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Lester sounds more like he'll be their #1 target this offseason. I also think at some point the Cubs will flip some players for another big pitcher.
100% agreed. I fully expect the Cubs to (over)pay for a top end pitcher this offseason. Dave Kaplan is pretty adamant that the Cubs won't go after Scherzer based on injury concerns.
This trading deadline pretty clearly proved that pitching is almost always available via trade.
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This could be total BS but I heard that Lester is basically on rent to the A's right now and that he and the Red Sox already have a deal worked out for him to return this offseason. Baseball tonight was talking about this during their trade deadline special.
I've heard that as well, but I'm pretty skeptical given the original lowball offer Boston gave him.
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This could be total BS but I heard that Lester is basically on rent to the A's right now and that he and the Red Sox already have a deal worked out for him to return this offseason. Baseball tonight was talking about this during their trade deadline special.
I wish this was true, but it isn't. The Red Sox won't come close to the best offers for Lester, because they are set in their ways that 5-6 years is way too long to commit to a 30 year-old, especially a pitcher. I hope they change their mind, and I desperately hope someone other than the Yankees sign him. The Yankees love to stick it to the Red Sox and sign their players (see Boggs, Youkilis, Damon, Ellsury, etc) I think the Red Sox will try to work out a deal for Hamels and try to sign James Shields to a shorter contract and otherwise go with their kids (De La Rosa, Watson, Workman, Buccholz).
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Not sure why Samardzija is in there, but Baez is exciting. Problem with CPat, Pie and Choi was the internal hype that was created they would never live up to it. The new farm system has the scouts hype for once in their history.
The especially funny part is that none of the previous flameouts mentioned would be in the team photo of talent in the current cubs farm system.
A major issue that Hoyer and Epstein corrected was building a scouting and development system. The cubs had the smallest off field staff in baseball, from front office to scouting and player development. The organization has undergone a fundamental transformation in this area in the last three years.
Comparing talent between what was in the farm system in years past and what is there now is not analogous.
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100% agreed. I fully expect the Cubs to (over)pay for a top end pitcher this offseason. Dave Kaplan is pretty adamant that the Cubs won't go after Scherzer based on injury concerns.
This trading deadline pretty clearly proved that pitching is almost always available via trade.
They may not even have to trade for top pitching talent. The core position players will be so inexpensive and under team control for a very long time. The upcoming TV contracts and ballpark renovations will provide new revenue streams to the point where the cubs could sink $100-$150mm into their pitching staff every season and not flinch at the cost.
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I wish this was true, but it isn't. The Red Sox won't come close to the best offers for Lester, because they are set in their ways that 5-6 years is way too long to commit to a 30 year-old, especially a pitcher. I hope they change their mind, and I desperately hope someone other than the Yankees sign him. The Yankees love to stick it to the Red Sox and sign their players (see Boggs, Youkilis, Damon, Ellsury, etc) I think the Red Sox will try to work out a deal for Hamels and try to sign James Shields to a shorter contract and otherwise go with their kids (De La Rosa, Watson, Workman, Buccholz).
The problem is that going with the kids means last place again. There is certainly no #1, #2, or #3 starter on that list.
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The problem is that going with the kids means last place again. There is certainly no #1, #2, or #3 starter on that list.
Buchholz pitches like a #1 (2007, 2010, 2013) or like "number 2" (all the other years).
They'll pick up some guys in free agency or trade (I guessed Hamels and Shields). Between those guys, Kelly and the young guys, they could cobble together a solid starting staff. They have all kinds of money to spend with no long-term huge money contracts on the books. They can afford to do a lot. The question is, will they?
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Buchholz pitches like a #1 (2007, 2010, 2013) or like "number 2" (all the other years).
They'll pick up some guys in free agency or trade (I guessed Hamels and Shields). Between those guys, Kelly and the young guys, they could cobble together a solid starting staff. They have all kinds of money to spend with no long-term huge money contracts on the books. They can afford to do a lot. The question is, will they?
Will Joe Kelly be in their starting rotation?
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Buchholz pitches like a #1 (2007, 2010, 2013) or like "number 2" (all the other years).
They'll pick up some guys in free agency or trade (I guessed Hamels and Shields). Between those guys, Kelly and the young guys, they could cobble together a solid starting staff. They have all kinds of money to spend with no long-term huge money contracts on the books. They can afford to do a lot. The question is, will they?
What?? He made 3 starts in '07 and only 16 in '13. Are you really saying that when he had ERAs like 4.21, 4.56, 6.20, and 6.75 that he pitched like a #2 starter? Pretty low standards.
And Kelly will be no better. Minor league records do indicate big league success.
The current staff (plus the young guys) will be good enough to produce another last place season. They needs two top pitchers (and I expect they will sign a couple) because there is nothing better than a borderline #3 on the staff right now.
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What?? He made 3 starts in '07 and only 16 in '13. Are you really saying that when he had ERAs like 4.21, 4.56, 6.20, and 6.75 that he pitched like a #2 starter? Pretty low standards.
No, I meant "number 2" as in excrement.
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No, I meant "number 2" as in excrement.
I should have notice the difference between "#1" and "number 2". Slipped right by me.
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Nope. But at SS I'll personally take a player who is better defensively and struggles offensively vs. a player who struggles defensively but is better offensively.
And again, I'm not saying Jean is a better player than Castro. I'm just saying that at 19 years old Castro was supposed to be the next big thing in baseball, the can't miss prospect, and 5 years later he is the exact same player he was at 19 years old. In fact, Castro has gotten worse over the last 2 years than he was his first 3 years.
(Although, if we are looking at overall WAR, Jean's WAR last year - first full season in the majors - is higher than any year in Castro's career, and Jean's WAR this year is higher than Castro's is this year.)
If being the 4th best SS in baseball by wRC+ (and 7th best by WAR) is 'being the exact same player' then I don't think you can complain about being the exact same player.
As far as preferring offense vs. defense at SS, it really shouldn't matter - the preference should be for the overall better combination of both and (to date) that is Castro. If you HAD to pick offense or defense, offense is likely more valuable at SS because it offers more flexibility. It's not hard to find a replacement level SS who can field at or above average and not hit. Finding a player who can hack it at SS (even if it's not pretty and costs your team runs) but provides a huge upgrade to the offense allows more roster construction flexibility - the Cubs can always move Castro to 2B if a better defensive option emerges at SS.
The only reason to prefer Segura to Castro are if you believe he has a better offensive trajectory than he's shown so far and I just don't see that. Segura's peak (106 wRC+ in 2013) is only marginally better than Castro's career average (96) and the rest of Segura's career (basically 1 season between 2012 and 2014) he's been sub-70. Castro has never posted a sub-70 wRC+.
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If being the 4th best SS in baseball by wRC+ (and 7th best by WAR) is 'being the exact same player' then I don't think you can complain about being the exact same player.
As far as preferring offense vs. defense at SS, it really shouldn't matter - the preference should be for the overall better combination of both and (to date) that is Castro. If you HAD to pick offense or defense, offense is likely more valuable at SS because it offers more flexibility. It's not hard to find a replacement level SS who can field at or above average and not hit. Finding a player who can hack it at SS (even if it's not pretty and costs your team runs) but provides a huge upgrade to the offense allows more roster construction flexibility - the Cubs can always move Castro to 2B if a better defensive option emerges at SS.
The only reason to prefer Segura to Castro are if you believe he has a better offensive trajectory than he's shown so far and I just don't see that. Segura's peak (106 wRC+ in 2013) is only marginally better than Castro's career average (96) and the rest of Segura's career (basically 1 season between 2012 and 2014) he's been sub-70. Castro has never posted a sub-70 wRC+.
Huh? You seem to be saying that Castro's subpar defense at SS doesn't matter because the team can move him off of SS. It is a pretty good reason to prefer Segura if you want a player whose offensive skills can stick at that premium defensive position.
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But segura's offensive skills are bad one half season excepted.
Castro is a more valuable SS because his offense more than overcomes his defense (thus the higher WAR than Segura). He's a more valuable general asset because he gives you more positional flexibility. Segura is only valuable if he's playing SS - if the Cubs bring up Russell or any of the other SS prospects they have in the minors they can move Castro and he still profiles as an above average bat at another position. If the Brewers had a similar prospect that could displace Segura, you can't put Segura anywhere else - he'd be worse than replacement level.
His subpar defense does matter but he's still the overall better asset to have. Picking players 'by type' is a good way to build a bad roster. You just want the best players possible and you find a way to fit them into a lineup that optimizes their skill.
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Anibal Sanchez to the DL, Verlander left tonight's game with right shoulder soreness. Clubhouse lacks a fiery leader, as it has for the last several years. Move your money to KC.
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Anibal Sanchez to the DL, Verlander left tonight's game with right shoulder soreness. Clubhouse lacks a fiery leader, as it has for the last several years. Move your money to KC.
"Shoulder soreness" = sucking too much because he's off the PEDs.
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"Shoulder soreness" = sucking too much because he's off the PEDs.
Speaking of off PEDS
(http://i58.tinypic.com/6zqahl.jpg)
Context shouldn't be necessary, but will assume it will be eventually.
First guy to correctly guess it gets a free beer from PTM at a game next year.
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Speaking of off PEDS
(http://i58.tinypic.com/6zqahl.jpg)
Context shouldn't be necessary, but will assume it will be eventually.
First guy to correctly guess it gets a free beer from PTM at a game next year.
Don't know who it is, but also don't know what big time players prior to the last 5 years weren't on PEDs. Even these days I'm more surprised when someone isn't than when they are.
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How's this for the daily double. About two weeks ago I'm at Wrigley and it was the longest game in Cubs history. Two nights ago, at Angels Stadium...longest game in Angels history, over 6 hours long, 19 innings.
Lots of free baseball for me the last few weeks.
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How's this for the daily double. About two weeks ago I'm at Wrigley and it was the longest game in Cubs history. Two nights ago, at Angels Stadium...longest game in Angels history, over 6 hours long, 19 innings.
Lots of free baseball for me the last few weeks.
My apologies to you.
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Speaking of off PEDS
(http://i58.tinypic.com/6zqahl.jpg)
Context shouldn't be necessary, but will assume it will be eventually.
First guy to correctly guess it gets a free beer from PTM at a game next year.
Blind guess was Chris Davis. But no dice:
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2il2bk.jpg)
Edit: Ahhh, a couple numbers stood out, now I know who it is. Used my guess already, leaving it to others.
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Segura
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Greg Vaughn?
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"Shoulder soreness" = sucking too much because he's off the PEDs.
No PED's. Inadequate recovery from surgery during the offseason, IMO. Mixed in with too much Kate Upton.
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Segura
Yep. The decline from All-Star to testing the "any offense is a bonus" cliché has been tough to bear. Probably a better explanation for his struggles this year:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/7/23/5892065/jean-segura-milwaukee-brewers-player-profiles
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Yep. The decline from All-Star to testing the "any offense is a bonus" cliché has been tough to bear. Probably a better explanation for his struggles this year:
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/7/23/5892065/jean-segura-milwaukee-brewers-player-profiles
The article dances around the issue, even if it's not mentioned explicitly... opposing teams now have a book on his spray chart and are pitching him and positioning defense accordingly. And it's working... look at his spray from 2013 to 2014. The only benefit a PED could provide him is some sort of placebo effect, in which case, give him a Zyrtec and tell him it's pure lion testosterone.
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And Segura is hardly the first prospect this has happened to. Comes up, finds a way to be successful, pitchers adjust...but he can't. The real question about any prospect is will they eventually be able to figure it out.
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And Segura is hardly the first prospect this has happened to. Comes up, finds a way to be successful, pitchers adjust...but he can't. The real question about any prospect is will they eventually be able to figure it out.
Bingo!!
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He may owe me a new TV if he keeps pulling weak grounders to short. At least pop it up once in a while :-\
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It's Segura, correct.
And no, I do not think he's on PEDs.
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Segura had an unfathomably bad year off the field. That would understandably take its toll on him at the plate.
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Fiers with 14 Ks in 6 innings today. In 2 starts since being brought back to the big leagues he is 2-0 going 14 innings, giving up 1 run, 6 hits, 2 walks, and 19 strikeouts. Not bad for a guy who tops out at 91 mph.
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He may owe me a new TV if he keeps pulling weak grounders to short. At least pop it up once in a while :-\
C'mon. He's had his share of weak popups to the right side.
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Segura had an unfathomably bad year off the field. That would understandably take its toll on him at the plate.
Yeah, completely understandable that his head may be elsewhere.
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Give the ball to Jeffress in the 9th please Ronald.
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Kershaw was unhittable again tonight. NL MVP?
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Brewer Bullpen: close the damned deal, wouldya'? Geez.
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welcome to the majors, Mr. Soler
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My wife this morning: The most dreaded words in the Brewer clubhouse are 'rookie pitcher.'
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Give the ball to Jeffress in the 9th please Ronald.
I wouldn't mind trying it. KRod is a disaster waiting to happen.
BTW, apparently the Brewers claimed Justin Morneau off waivers but Colorado pulled him back when they couldn't make a deal.
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Is Estrada wearing K-Rods jersey and running out there? The home run rate has gotten absurd.
Liking Herrera getting time at short. Especially if Segura is so out of it that he's not even keeping up his defense. Only issue is against left-handed pitching - somehow Segura is unfathomably bad against LHP, and Herrera isn't very good turned around.
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Is Estrada wearing K-Rods jersey and running out there? The home run rate has gotten absurd.
Liking Herrera getting time at short. Especially if Segura is so out of it that he's not even keeping up his defense. Only issue is against left-handed pitching - somehow Segura is unfathomably bad against LHP, and Herrera isn't very good turned around.
The problem with KRod is he tops out in the low 80s on his fastball, so he has to get batters to swing at pitches out of the strike zone to have success. He was able to do that through the first half of the season but the deception isn't working anymore. Hitters are recognizing that a ball that starts off low in the strike zone is a changeup that will dip out of the zone by the time it crosses the plate, and they wait for something higher in the zone to swing. When they get that they can just tee off. It has always just been smoke and mirrors with him, and now people are seeing through it and we're seeing the results.
A changeup specialist who throws an 87 MPH fastball isn't a good recipe for a closer. A fastball pitcher who throws 100 MPH, even if he struggles to throw a second pitch consistently and may struggle with his location at times, is what you typically see in a successful closer (Jeffress). Batters have such a short amount of time to determine whether they should swing or not that they swing at a lot of balls anyways. I'd love to see Jeffress get a chance. I realize he also gave up a run last night, but his ERA is still below 1.00.
I also like Herrerra at short. I'm a big fan of Jean, but he's just not producing anything this year. I'd definitely rather have the pitcher spot up with 1 out and a runner at first than I would have Jean up with a runner on first and 1 out. At least with the pitcher we'll bunt the runner over and give Gomez a chance (although the probability of him swinging for the fences and striking out is incredibly high in that situation anyways), whereas best case scenario Segura strikes out, worst (and most likely) case he grounds into a double play and the inning ends with the pitcher leading off the next inning. And Herrerra's defense has been fine.
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Brewers and Cards seem to be catching fire and then cooling off at the same time, frustrating that the Brew Crew can't capitalize at the right time anymore. Last night's loss stung as they need to be winning this kind of series. Hearing about the Morneau deal falling through is just insult to injury, would've been a boost
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BTW, apparently the Brewers claimed Justin Morneau off waivers but Colorado pulled him back when they couldn't make a deal.
Seriously... what's it going to take to get Doug Melvin to bring in an OPS guy?
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Seriously... what's it going to take to get Doug Melvin to bring in an OPS guy?
To be fair, in this case he was trying to strike a deal with a GM who considered 41 year old LaTroy Hawkins untouchable at the trade deadline despite his team being the worst in the NL...because 42 year old LaTroy Hawkins is needed in the clubhouse to mentor their young pitchers.
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I wouldn't mind trying it. KRod is a disaster waiting to happen.
Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.
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Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.
To put it simply, yes. I am suggesting just that.
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Listen to yourselves. He may be a disaster waiting to happen, but it's been that way all year. Heading into the stretch run of a pennant race, are suggesting putting a guy in at closer who has been completely up and down in his career, 1 major league save to his credit, in place of a guy who is one of the top closers of all time, who is currently leading the league in saves. Good plan. I know he's tough to watch at times, and far from perfect, but I don't think it justifies just giving sometHing a try. You risk not only weakening the 9th inning, but the entire bullpen.
I AM PANICKING!!!!!
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A changeup specialist who throws an 87 MPH fastball isn't a good recipe for a closer. A fastball pitcher who throws 100 MPH, even if he struggles to throw a second pitch consistently and may struggle with his location at times, is what you typically see in a successful closer (Jeffress). Batters have such a short amount of time to determine whether they should swing or not that they swing at a lot of balls anyways. I'd love to see Jeffress get a chance. I realize he also gave up a run last night, but his ERA is still below 1.00.
How can anyone argue your points?
What are they gonna do - bring up a stiff like Trevor Hoffman who struggled to hit 87 mph? Or maybe Kyle Farnsworth, who threw 98-100, and is one of the great closers of all time?
96-98 means absolutely nothing unless there is late movement on the ball and you are able to locate it properly. Farnsworth threw over 100 at times and was regularly 96-99, but his ERA in his 16+ years is almost 4.50.
Big league hitters feast on hard stuff in the upper 90's if it is coming in straight.
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I AM PANICKING!!!!!
I'm not panicking one bit, I'm just thinking logically about this. Since posting a 0.00 ERA with 15 saves in 15 opportunities and only giving up 7 hits in the first month and a half of the season, KRod has blown 5 saves and saved 24 games while giving up 20 earned runs and 37 hits in the last 3 1/2 months. Since starting out the year with 15 straight saves and having a 0.00 ERA, he has given up 20 earned runs in 40 innings. That's a 4.50 ERA from your closer, who tops out at 87 MPH. He has given up 12 home runs in 40 innings. Those numbers are horrendous from a closer. You're really willing to sit back and watch him blow leads when you have a chance to push your divisional lead up? Fine. I personally am not. I have seen 1 divisional title in my 25 year life so far, and I would prefer that my closer doesn't keep me from seeing a second. I'm not willing to say, "Well he's been there before and he has a ton of career saves, so why not just keep running him out there to watch him blow games?" Otherwise we should just go sign Eric Gagne and Trevor Hoffman while we're at it.
He had a great start to the year, but like I said, hitters started to realize that a pitch that started out low in the zone was going to be a changeup that dropped out of the zone and they now wait to get ahead in the count and get a fastball up in the zone and tee off on it.
Meanwhile, we have a guy who was called up at the end of July and has given up 2 earned runs in 14.2 innings for a roughly 1.33 ERA. He has given up 14 hits but 0 home runs. The biggest knock on him is his command and he has just 3 walks in 14.2 innings with 9 Ks. Oh and he hits triple digits with his fastball. I don't care if he's struggled in the past or been up and down from the minors. So has Mike Fiers and I have no problem seeing him go out to take the mound every 5th day for the Brewers. Carlos Gomez was up and down and in and out of a platoon for his entire career up until this year. So what? I'll take this year's results as an indicator of what a player can do rather than looking at the previous five. The previous five years do nothing for me this year.
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How can anyone argue your points?
What are they gonna do - bring up a stiff like Trevor Hoffman who struggled to hit 87 mph? Or maybe Kyle Farnsworth, who threw 98-100, and is one of the great closers of all time?
96-98 means absolutely nothing unless there is late movement on the ball and you are able to locate it properly. Farnsworth threw over 100 at times and was regularly 96-99, but his ERA in his 16+ years is almost 4.50.
Big league hitters feast on hard stuff in the upper 90's if it is coming in straight.
The funny thing is that that's exactly what KRod's ERA is since the first month and a half of the season when he hadn't given up an earned run. So like I said, players have adjusted. Yes, you can be successful throwing the changeup. But hitters have adjusted and KRod is not successful throwing it. So there's a problem. I guess Brewers fans are fine just watching him continue to blow saves and allow base runners. Maybe I'm the only one who likes to see leads held up at the end of games.
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The funny thing is that that's exactly what KRod's ERA is since the first month and a half of the season when he hadn't given up an earned run. So like I said, players have adjusted. Yes, you can be successful throwing the changeup. But hitters have adjusted and KRod is not successful throwing it. So there's a problem. I guess Brewers fans are fine just watching him continue to blow saves and allow base runners. Maybe I'm the only one who likes to see leads held up at the end of games.
So the games where he pitched well don't count.
And, by the way, Jeffress' ERA this year is 3.00 (not the 1.33 that you claim).
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I doubt Roenicke would pull Krod its not his m.o.
Krod has given up way too many home runs lately. He has given up runs but he has still been getting the save, which covers the stink of his performance. Last night was a brutal loss. Krod is a disaster waiting to happen, I thought this even early in the season. I don't think jeffress is the answer. He is an ideal 8th inning guy. Would like to see Fiers as 5th starter and nelson as closer. Not sure nelson is cut out for closer though and I don't think Roenicke would pull the trigger.
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So the games where he pitched well don't count.
And, by the way, Jeffress' ERA this year is 3.00 (not the 1.33 that you claim).
So you think he's pitching just as well as he was in the first month of the season? That's interesting. It's not like I'm taking out his good games recently. I'm saying he's not pitching the same he was when he started the year with 15 straight saves. He's just flat out not pitching nearly as well as he was early in the year. If you think otherwise then there's not much to argue about, you're just flat out wrong. It'd be like saying JJ Hardy was the best SS in the MLB at the end of September when he had hit .310 with 15 homers from April through the end of June and then .110 with 1 homer from that point until the end of September.
And again, since being called up with the Brewers, his ERA is 1.33. Try reading what I said first. 2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called up in July. And if you really think that his appearance from March 31 with Toronto is a good indicator of what he is bringing to the table now on August 28 then so be it. But aside from that game (3 earned runs in 1 inning, again 5 months ago, and again with a different ball club) he has given up 3 earned runs in 17 innings this season (and 2 in 14 2/3 with Milwaukee).
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And again, since being called back up, his ERA is 1.33. Try reading what I said first. 2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called back up in July.
Yep, and his history and regression to the mean would suggest there is no way he will continue to pitch that way. So again if you are going to risk blown saves, which I would hope you would agree is the case in either scenario, would you rather go down with a guy who hasn't done it before or one of the best all time? I get what your saying, I just think keeping things the same is currently the lesser if two evils overall.
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Yep, and his history and regression to the mean would suggest there is no way he will continue to pitch that way. So again if you are going to risk blown saves, which I would hope you would agree is the case in either scenario, would you rather go down with a guy who hasn't done it before or one of the best all time? I get what your saying, I just think keeping things the same is currently the lesser if two evils overall.
I'm not naive enough to think that Jeremy Jeffress is the long term solution to closer or would be the best closer in baseball if given the opportunity. I also understand that guys who throw hard and straight get knocked around in the big leagues. But guys who throw 100 and straight don't get knocked around. There is a big difference between 94 and straight and 100 and straight. Aroldis Chapman throws straight but has a lot of success because 100 MPH is just that much faster than anybody else really throws. While Jeffress has always thrown hard, he is throwing the ball harder than he ever has. He is also only 26 years old, so while yes he has been up and down, been through some injuries, and been far from consistent, it's not like he's some 35 year old career journeyman. 26 isn't overly young, but it also isn't nearly too old to figure things out. Again, long term do I think we approach the closer spot like we've got our guy with Jeffress? No. But for the end of this season I'm willing to go with a guy who is pitching well and improving rather than a guy who was as hot as hot can be to start the year using all smoke and mirrors but pitching bad for the past 2 months. KRod just simply isn't that good when hitters aren't swinging at balls, which they have figured out. Throughout the entire season it seems as though even when he is getting the save he is letting 2 guys get on before recording the save. Just playing with fire far too often for my liking.
Even if Jeffress does regress to the mean, I don't see his ERA rising above a 4.50 ERA, and if for no other reason than the fact that a closer can absolutely not afford to give up the long ball, I'd give Jeffress a shot at it. 12 home runs in the last 40 innings is way too many from any pitcher, but especially from your closer. That cannot happen.
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And again, since being called up with the Brewers, his ERA is 1.33. Try reading what I said first. 2 runs in 14.2 innings since being called up in July. And if you really think that his appearance from March 31 with Toronto is a good indicator of what he is bringing to the table now on August 28 then so be it. But aside from that game (3 earned runs in 1 inning, again 5 months ago, and again with a different ball club) he has given up 3 earned runs in 17 innings this season (and 2 in 14 2/3 with Milwaukee).
14.2 innings....that is what you consider a fair sample size?
And if you throw out the games where KRod gave up any runs, His ERA is 0.00
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There is a big difference between 94 and straight and 100 and straight. Aroldis Chapman throws straight but has a lot of success because 100 MPH is just that much faster than anybody else really throws.
He has a lot of success because he has a devastating slider. He only throws his fastball about 60% of the time. While his fastball is hard to hit, the swing-and-miss rate for his slider is much higher.
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14.2 innings....that is what you consider a fair sample size?
And if you throw out the games where KRod gave up any runs, His ERA is 0.00
It's the ONLY fair sample you can take. Again, you really are going to take his outing from when he was on the Toronto Blue Jays from 5 months ago and say, "See, the guy can't pitch!" Since joining the Brewers he has given up 2 earned runs in 14.2 innings. I don't know why you would look at anything else. Makes no sense. Should we look at Braun's career numbers and say he's still the best player in baseball despite hitting .280 with 20 homers this year since he can't take PEDs anymore?
And again, if you think KRod is pitching just as well as he was for the first month and a half then fine. He plain and simply isn't, but if you want to wrongly opine that then feel free. I'm not picking 1 game from this week and taking it out, 2 from last week, etc. Since the 2nd month of the season KRod has not pitched well. If you think magically hitters will start to swing at his change ups out of the zone again then again, that's your right to think that. I have my doubts that that's going to be happening, but hey, I've been wrong before. So yeah the last 3 1/2 months where (including all outings) he has a 4.50 ERA are not a good indicator of how he is pitching right now. The 0.00 ERA from the start of the year is what really matters. Just like Will Smith is still the best releiver in baseball because he couldn't be bit 4 months ago...
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So I guess the question becomes do you think he is going to get worse the rest of the way? What evidence is there to support that? The trending is nowhere near is clear as you make it out to be. His performance the past 4 months has actually been quite consistent. ERA will obviously move considerably within a month for a closer with limited innings with a bad outing or two, but looking at some of the key numbers you point to...
Month, ERA, HR, SV, BS
May, 5.73, 3, 4, 2
June, 2.35, 3, 10, 1
July, 6.48, 3, 4, 1
Aug, 2.89, 3, 9, 1
So, taking April out as you prefer, his best months have been 1) June 2) August 3) July 3A) May. That is who he is. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that there has been some sort of downward trend line throughout the season, as opposed to the normal ups and downs that make season averages season averages. If the rest of the team plays the same, we can likely expect roughly his season averages for Sept...
3-3.50 ERA, 3 HR, 8 SV, 1 BS
So with the most pressure packed games of the season yet to be played, I'll sign up for what we can reasonably expect for Sept. right now, vs. taking a chance on a guy who throws hard, but has never closed, and more than likely would weaken both the 8th and 9th innings.
I assure you Doug Melvin and RR have been and will continue to do the math, and will not panic or overreact as you seem all to eager to do.
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So I guess the question becomes do you think he is going to get worse the rest of the way? What evidence is there to support that? The trending is nowhere near is clear as you make it out to be. His performance the past 4 months has actually been quite consistent. ERA will obviously move considerably within a month for a closer with limited innings with a bad outing or two, but looking at some of the key numbers you point to...
Month, ERA, HR, SV, BS
May, 5.73, 3, 4, 2
June, 2.35, 3, 10, 1
July, 6.48, 3, 4, 1
Aug, 2.89, 3, 9, 1
So, taking April out as you prefer, his best months have been 1) June 2) August 3) July 3A) May. That is who he is. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that there has been some sort of downward trend line throughout the season, as opposed to the normal ups and downs that make season averages season averages. If the rest of the team plays the same, we can likely expect roughly his season averages for Sept...
3-3.50 ERA, 3 HR, 8 SV, 1 BS
So with the most pressure packed games of the season yet to be played, I'll sign up for what we can reasonably expect for Sept. right now, vs. taking a chance on a guy who throws hard, but has never closed, and more than likely would weaken both the 8th and 9th innings.
I assure you Doug Melvin and RR have been and will continue to do the math, and will not panic or overreact as you seem all to eager to do.
I guess we'll see. You're right, it's not a consistent trend. I guess that's my biggest problem. KRod is way too inconsistent for my liking to be a closer. I want to know that a majority of the time my closer is going to come in and give up maybe a single or a walk here or there. I don't want a guy who consistently puts 2 runners on with a 3 run lead, or guys in scoring position with a 1 run lead, or gives up the long ball far to often closing games for me. April and early May he was as good as a closer can be, but I just don't think he has pitched well since. Yes he has gone on a run of good outings at times, and yes he has had some bad outings that skew his numbers. But as a whole he is not getting the same results (1-2-3 innings, easy saves) that he was to start the year. I do not feel comfortable at all with him on the mound, while I do with Jeffress or even a guy like Will Smith.
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I guess we'll see. You're right, it's not a consistent trend. I guess that's my biggest problem. KRod is way too inconsistent for my liking to be a closer. I want to know that a majority of the time my closer is going to come in and give up maybe a single or a walk here or there. I don't want a guy who consistently puts 2 runners on with a 3 run lead, or guys in scoring position with a 1 run lead, or gives up the long ball far to often closing games for me. April and early May he was as good as a closer can be, but I just don't think he has pitched well since. Yes he has gone on a run of good outings at times, and yes he has had some bad outings that skew his numbers. But as a whole he is not getting the same results (1-2-3 innings, easy saves) that he was to start the year. I do not feel comfortable at all with him on the mound, while I do with Jeffress or even a guy like Will Smith.
So you are worried about KRod but wouldn't have a problem with Will Smith? He of the 5.27 ERA in the 2nd half so far - not to mention a .398 OBP to right-handed hitters which he would be facing more of as a closer.
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So in other words, you want Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman in their prime? Who doesn't? Welcome to real world. Fact is KRod is just about the same or better than any other closer in the league. His WHIP is 4th best among the top 10 save leaders in MLB (I believe the same for NL only, though he has 15 more saves than the 10th guy). He's not the only one who puts guys on base. Who wouldn't want the 9th inning to be a formality? Unfortunatley, itjust doesn't work that way. Don't let your view of what you want to happen, cloud the reality of what is actually happening (across the league).
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So in other words, you want Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman in their prime? Who doesn't? Welcome to real world. Fact is KRod is just about the same or better than any other closer in the league. His WHIP is 4th best among the top 10 save leaders in MLB (I believe the same for NL only, though he has 15 more saves than the 10th guy). He's not the only one who puts guys on base. Who wouldn't want the 9th inning to be a formality? Unfortunatley, itjust doesn't work that way. Don't let your view of what you want to happen, cloud the reality of what is actually happening (across the league).
But again, after mid May he hasn't been nearly as good. I get it, you can't take that away from him. He had a great first month and a half and those contribute to his overall numbers. But when talking about how he is pitching right now (which is all that matters) he is not pitching nearly the same. A 4.50 ERA with 12 home runs allowed in 40 innings since that time is simply not good enough. Good closers have an ERA no higher than 3.00. KRod's for the season is 3.00, so that's fine. But again, I don't care what he did 4 months ago. I really don't. After the season I'll look back and think "Hey, KRod's numbers were pretty good." But when I'm looking at what we have going into the last 30 games of the season with a 1 1/2 game divisional lead, I could not care less about KRod's 26 scoreless innings to start the season. What matters is how he has been over the last month. How he is pitching now. And a 4.50 ERA from a closer is, quite frankly, horrible. And that is what he has since going 26 straight scoreless innings to start the year (again, I'm not trying to take that away from him, it was fantastic, but it's not a factor in how he is pitching today, on August 29). 4.50 ERA, 12 home runs, 40 innings. Those 2 numbers are way, way too high for a closer. I get that that's not the entire season numbers. I realize that. But again, to me, and maybe I'm the only one who thinks that how he's doing now is all that matters from now until the end of the season and that opponents will magically lose their scouting report that has given them success since then on him, these numbers are what matter and you can't have that from your closer.
So you are worried about KRod but wouldn't have a problem with Will Smith? He of the 5.27 ERA in the 2nd half so far - not to mention a .398 OBP to right-handed hitters which he would be facing more of as a closer.
Nope, never said I would want him as my closer. He's a lefty specialist. I said I'm more comfortable seeing him on the mound than I am KRod. KRod is going to put runners on. If batters capitalize on a pitch left up in the zone against him, it's a 3 run homer that changes the outcome of the game. I feel more confident that Smith will come in against the matchup we want and he'll get his guy out.
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Nope, never said I would want him as my closer. He's a lefty specialist. I said I'm more comfortable seeing him on the mound than I am KRod. KRod is going to put runners on. If batters capitalize on a pitch left up in the zone against him, it's a 3 run homer that changes the outcome of the game. I feel more confident that Smith will come in against the matchup we want and he'll get his guy out.
I don't mean to knock your opinion. These different opinions are what makes this all fun. What's the point in me responding to someone who feels exactly like I do?
Unlike discussions on politics - when we give different thoughts on sports, sometimes one party or the other actually changes their thinking a little.
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But again, after mid May he hasn't been nearly as good. I get it, you can't take that away from him. He had a great first month and a half and those contribute to his overall numbers. But when talking about how he is pitching right now (which is all that matters) he is not pitching nearly the same. A 4.50 ERA with 12 home runs allowed in 40 innings since that time is simply not good enough. Good closers have an ERA no higher than 3.00. KRod's for the season is 3.00, so that's fine. But again, I don't care what he did 4 months ago. I really don't. After the season I'll look back and think "Hey, KRod's numbers were pretty good." But when I'm looking at what we have going into the last 30 games of the season with a 1 1/2 game divisional lead, I could not care less about KRod's 26 scoreless innings to start the season. What matters is how he has been over the last month. How he is pitching now. And a 4.50 ERA from a closer is, quite frankly, horrible. And that is what he has since going 26 straight scoreless innings to start the year (again, I'm not trying to take that away from him, it was fantastic, but it's not a factor in how he is pitching today, on August 29). 4.50 ERA, 12 home runs, 40 innings. Those 2 numbers are way, way too high for a closer. I get that that's not the entire season numbers. I realize that. But again, to me, and maybe I'm the only one who thinks that how he's doing now is all that matters from now until the end of the season and that opponents will magically lose their scouting report that has given them success since then on him, these numbers are what matter and you can't have that from your closer.
Good grief. Well if what matters is what he's done over the last month, take a look at the August numbers that were pointed out just a few posts ago. Seems to meet your criteria just fine, yet you want to make a change. So even your hand picked criteria and sample size don't support making a change.
You can say you don't like him in the roll, but the alternative matters, and there is nothing to indicate that the brewers have a better alternative.
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Good grief. Well if what matters is what he's done over the last month, take a look at the August numbers that were pointed out just a few posts ago. Seems to meet your criteria just fine, yet you want to make a change. So even your hand picked criteria and sample size don't support making a change.
You can say you don't like him in the roll, but the alternative matters, and there is nothing to indicate that the brewers have a better alternative.
Good grief what? You think that how he pitched in April is a good indicator as to how he will pitch over the next 30 games? Okay then. There is nothing I can say to argue with that. That's simply an opinion and I personally think (again, an opinion) that it's a really poor opinion.
His August has been *fine* other than the dingers he gives up. Typically when a closer gives up a home run that's a blown save right there. Luckily for him he has come in with a multiple run lead quite a few times this year to earn a save.
And we do have a better alternative. Look at what Jeffress has done since returning to the Milwaukee Brewers. Look at all their numbers and tell me who has been the better pitcher since July 23, when Jeffress returned to the Brewers. KRod or Jeffress, who has been better? And sure they are facing different batters in different situations. 8th inning vs. 9th inning, can be different parts of the lineup, etc. so it's not a perfect comparison, but Jeffress has been pitching much better than KRod since he has returned to the Brewers staff.
I don't mean to knock your opinion. These different opinions are what makes this all fun. What's the point in me responding to someone who feels exactly like I do?
Unlike discussions on politics - when we give different thoughts on sports, sometimes one party or the other actually changes their thinking a little.
Agreed, it's all for fun. If any of us really had a clue as to what the right decision is we would be getting paid to make those decisions rather than sitting on a Marquette basketball forum and debating it. (By the way, I was wrong, his 1 earned run in his last outing raised Jeffress's ERA since returning to the Brewers from 0.66 to 1.23.)
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Good grief what?
And we do have a better alternative. Look at what Jeffress has done since returning to the Milwaukee Brewers. Look at all their numbers and tell me who has been the better pitcher since July 23, when Jeffress returned to the Brewers. KRod or Jeffress, who has been better? And sure they are facing different batters in different situations. 8th inning vs. 9th inning, can be different parts of the lineup, etc. so it's not a perfect comparison, but Jeffress has been pitching much better than KRod since he has returned to the Brewers staff.
First off, I think we agree there is a big difference between the 8th and the 9th innings. That cannot be discounted. Beyond that it is clear to me that you are disproportionately focused on HRs in your assessment. I don't like them either, but you simply are not looking objectively at what actually happens out there.
You say what happened in the last month is what matters (but for some reason always want to bring April back into the discussion), so let's take a look at that...In August which captures the last month, KRod is better than Jeffress in BAA, OBP, and WHIP, while JJ is better in SLG and the corresponding OPS only (Better in ERA as well, though as already discussed when you are talking about such limited sample, ERA may or may not be meaningful - I don't consider 1.80 vs. 3.00 in 9 IP particularly meaningful.)...again, with KRod working the 9th and Jeffres working the 8th as RR sees fit.
Which brings me to the other thing that absolutely cannot be ignored...Righty vs. lefty splits. As you know when you are given the ball in the 9th you do not get to choose whether you face RH or LH hitters. In the 8th the manager can be more selective based on who is likely to bat. JJ is appreciably worse vs. left handed hitters, where KRod is actually better. JJ has a .631 OPS vs. RH and a whopping .844 vs. LH, while KRod is .718 vs. RH and .573 vs. LH. Jeffress can be put in the best possible positions to succeed in the 7th or 8th innings. You can't do that when you just hand him the ball for the 9th.
Now, tell me again, how Jeffress is a better alternative to KRod to close out games. When the Brewers are playing the Cardinals in the fourth game of their upcoming series, having already lost 2 of the first 3, clinging to a 3-2 lead going to the 9th, you really want the Jeremy Jeffress experiment facing the likes of Holliday, Adams, Carpenter, etc? If I'm going down, I'm going down with the guy that has done it extremely well for a very long-time, and is currently leading the league in saves.
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If we would've had Jeffress as the closer we would've won that game last night.
Anyhow, Brewers are 1 game under .500 since starting 20-7. Meanwhile, the Pirates are 14 games over .500 since starting 18-26. And that includes a 9 game losing streak with Clutch22 out with an injury. The Pirates were finally getting healthy when they cut the division lead down to 1.5 and then McCutchen went on the DL and the lead grew to 6.5. In the 1 week since he returned the Pirates have cut the lead back down to 3. Pittsburgh is clearly the best team in the division when healthy. Will be an interesting September. Hopefully the Brewers early season hot streak was enough to hold on and the Cards and Pirates run out of time. I'm feeling 3rd in the division for the Crew.
PS Better keep both Fiers and Nelson ready to start. Peralta has been SHELLED his last 2 starts. Hopefully this isn't some kind of wall he's hitting and just has had 2 bad outtings in a row but will bounce back.
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Eh. You say that as if the a brewers and Cardinals have been completely healthy. Injustpries are a issue for those teams just the same as they are for the Pirates. I don't see any scenario where I would say they are clearly the best team.
Next 7-10 days may well tell the story. As I look at the cardinals schedule in Sept though, I am not optimistic. Pretty sure we will all be watching those jackholes in the playoffs again this year (though the Brewers may still get the WC).
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BTW, your willingness to hand pick and oversimplify numbers is maddening. Brewers record by month...
April: 20-8
May: 13-15
June: 18-10
July: 9-16
August: 13-12 (15-12 after the weekend :))
That below .500 record since your hand picked 20-7 start is obviously the result of a dreadful July. Other than that, they've been pretty consistent (after an admittedly hot start). That's baseball. Run these numbers for the Pirates, Cardinals, Dodgers, etc., and you'll see a similar picture. The beauty of it is they all play one another the rest of the way so it will be decided on the field. If the Brewers play better than .500 in Sept, they will more than likely win the division.
Definite concern about Peralta, but I really don't like the looks of Jimmy Nelson right now. I'm putting Garza in that spot, and giving Peralta a little extra rope. Hoping he's not out of gas, as he has hit some rough spots like this before, both this year and last.
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White Sox trading the house.
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Dunn is the (Out)house
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Brewers get help in the bullpen in the form of Jonathon Broxton. A little expensive, and I saw that is BABIP is likely to regress to norm, but still a nice addition.
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White Sox trading the house.
I'm at the Halos game right now....don't understand why the A's want Dunn, but whatever.
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And the side continues. I fear that the season has lasted 25 games too long for the Brewers.
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Brewers call up 1B Matt Clark (.976 OPS), 1B/3B Jason Rogers (.947 OPS), SS Hector Gomez (.808 OPS and good defense). They'll spend most of their time in the dugout making fun of Reynolds somehow having 21 home runs but a .690 OPS, Overbay and his .352 slugging percentage, and wondering where rock bottom is for Segura.
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White Sox trading the house.
I can't believe they seemed to get actual players back for Dunn and De Aza.
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Brewers director of scouting died suddenly last night in Vegas. RIP
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and wondering where rock bottom is for Segura.
I don't know, I think having your infant son die is probably rock bottom. Maybe he should be cut a little slack.
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I don't know, I think having your infant son die is probably rock bottom. Maybe he should be cut a little slack.
Then he and/or RR should remove him from the lineup.
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Then he and/or RR should remove him from the lineup.
Ron's about to remove himself from the organization. Not that it's all his fault that his team is getting blown out every game.
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Then he and/or RR should remove him from the lineup.
And who would you suggest he play instead?
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Ron's about to remove himself from the organization. Not that it's all his fault that his team is getting blown out every game.
He's a good man, hope that doesn't happen. Enjoyed my time working with him back in the day.
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He's a good man, hope that doesn't happen. Enjoyed my time working with him back in the day.
It won't, nor should it. Only so much a manager can do. Braun's injury, Gomez's injury, LuCroy stopped hitting....they're just a train wreck right now, but there isn't a damn thing a manager can do about it. I would consider dropping Braun down in the order, but what's the alternative at the top? They just have to start hitting again.
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It would be absolutely moronic to remove RR from the organization. He is a good manager. This isn't a Ned Yost like meltdown from the top. This is a team that has been batting inconsistent all year, and just happens to have gotten cold when the pitching is wearing down.
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And who would you suggest he play instead?
Don't know, don't care, just tired of hearing that.
His WAR suggests any replacement level player would be acceptable.
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Don't know, don't care, just tired of hearing that.
His WAR suggests any replacement level player would be acceptable.
Hector Gomez (just called up) is probably the only possible candidate. Nice season at AAA and good defensively. Herrera's bat is adequate, but he's bad defensively whether he's in the infield or...
(http://giant.gfycat.com/GenerousUnitedIriomotecat.gif)
It would be absolutely moronic to remove RR from the organization. He is a good manager. This isn't a Ned Yost like meltdown from the top. This is a team that has been batting inconsistent all year, and just happens to have gotten cold when the pitching is wearing down.
Yep, not a 2008 thing where the manager's idiocy is far and away the reason for the collapse. The Narrons can go away though.
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It won't, nor should it. Only so much a manager can do. Braun's injury, Gomez's injury, LuCroy stopped hitting....they're just a train wreck right now, but there isn't a damn thing a manager can do about it. I would consider dropping Braun down in the order, but what's the alternative at the top? They just have to start hitting again.
You forgot the quotes around "injury" for Braun. Braun slumps, so all of a sudden Braun is "injured." Braun hits 3 dongs in a week and all of a sudden he's feeling great. Braun slumps again and he has to miss a game with a sore thumb again. He is who he is. A slightly above average left fielder. A .280 hitter with 20-25 homers and a lot of RBIs. He's not an MVP, he's not a .330 hitter, and he's not a 35 homer guy. Unless he decides to risk it and use PEDs again, which I don't see happening given that he's going to be paid $20 million/year either way, so why risk dropping that down to $0/year either way?
And Gomez stopped hitting even moreso than Lucroy did even before he got injured (in the way that has caused him to stop hitting, swinging for the fences in a blowout game as your leadoff hitter).
Earlier in the year I would've loved to see Braun moved down in the lineup. Too late to do it now. When the team was going right other than Braun, I would've loved to see a lineup of 1) Scooter, 2) Gomez, 3) Lucroy, 4) Ramirez, 5) Davis (he was hot at the time, he's stopped hitting too), 6) Braun, 7) Reynolds, 8) Segura, 9) pitcher. Maybe my personal dislike of Ryan Braun clouds my view, but earlier in the year all 4 of those top 4 hitters were hitting much better than Braun. Now Gomez and Lucroy are not so it is what it is.
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Don't know, don't care, just tired of hearing that.
So he should do something simply for the sake of doing something, but you don't know what that something is?
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You forgot the quotes around "injury" for Braun. Braun slumps, so all of a sudden Braun is "injured."
...Maybe my personal dislike of Ryan Braun clouds my view,
It does. The guy cannot hit a fastball right now. He has feasted on fastballs his entire career, and the first half of this year. Pre- and post-All Star break splits bear that out. Unless you are suggesting he was taking PEDs in the first half, but then stopped, you're only kidding yourself. If you look at his ABs, and you don't think there is anything to that thumb thing, you're blind. Was he taking PEDs in April and May? According to your simplistic theory, that would seem to be the only possible explanation for a .322 average and .950 OPS in that time frame. Interesting how his numbers have declined as the season has worn on, huh? Don't just look for the easy answer (PED), look for the correct one.
I happen to think that the whole thumb/nerve thing will ultimately shorten his career dramatically. Not being able to swing a bat or hit a ball without it hurting, probably isn't too good for a baseball player.
Now, side commentary...if there is a "PED" that could help with the thumb thing that could be legally prescribed by a doctor, why shouldn't Braun or any other player not be allowed to take it? This is why PED use doesn't bother me. Im still of the opinion that they are "all" still taking something, but it doesn't bother me. I'd rather have them out on the field playing. I'm ok if you want to do away the HGH and things like that, but I don't suspect that stuff is really the drug of choice in MLB any more anyway. The NfL on the other hand...
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So he should do something simply for the sake of doing something, but you don't know what that something is?
If the tragic event is truly effecting his play, then pull yourself.
If not, people shouldn't use it as a crutch to explain why he's playing poorly.
As discussed before, it's likely a regression to the mean of what type of MLB player he is compared to last season.
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It does. The guy cannot hit a fastball right now. He has feasted on fastballs his entire career, and the first half of this year. Pre- and post-All Star break splits bear that out. Unless you are suggesting he was taking PEDs in the first half, but then stopped, you're only kidding yourself. If you look at his ABs, and you don't think there is anything to that thumb thing, you're blind. Was he taking PEDs in April and May? According to your simplistic theory, that would seem to be the only possible explanation for a .322 average and .950 OPS in that time frame. Interesting how his numbers have declined as the season has worn on, huh? Don't just look for the easy answer (PED), look for the correct one.
I happen to think that the whole thumb/nerve thing will ultimately shorten his career dramatically. Not being able to swing a bat or hit a ball without it hurting, probably isn't too good for a baseball player.
Now, side commentary...if there is a "PED" that could help with the thumb thing that could be legally prescribed by a doctor, why shouldn't Braun or any other player not be allowed to take it? This is why PED use doesn't bother me. Im still of the opinion that they are "all" still taking something, but it doesn't bother me. I'd rather have them out on the field playing. I'm ok if you want to do away the HGH and things like that, but I don't suspect that stuff is really the drug of choice in MLB any more anyway. The NfL on the other hand...
Bat speed isn't there. Is it the injury? Maybe, I guess. But maybe the lack of being on PEDs for the first time since early in college (at the earliest) is causing more injures. And why is the thumb only a problem when he's slumping? If it's a chronic problem it hurts regardless of whether he is performing well at the plate or not. If he needs a day off because of the pain in the middle of a slump, then he would also need a day off in the middle of a hot streak due to the pain. The pain doesn't just pick and choose when it comes and goes with a chronic injury. It's always there. Either man up and accept the fact that you aren't playing well and work your way through the slump, or take your days off when you're hot too. It's incredibly predictable when the thumb is going to "flair up" for him. Go 0-4? Well, if he has another 0 fer the next day you can all but guarantee that thumb will be hurting bad enough for him to need a day to rest it the following day. But if somehow he goes 0-4 and follows it up by a 2-4 day with a homer and double, no problem.
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If the tragic event is truly effecting his play, then pull yourself.
Come on! More to the point/question that was asked? What is the alternative? If it isn't better (it isn't), what's the point?
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Come on! More to the point/question that was asked? What is the alternative? If it isn't better (it isn't), what's the point?
The point is, quit using the excuse as fans. If it was affecting his play, he would not be playing.
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If it's a chronic problem it hurts regardless of whether he is performing well at the plate or not. If he needs a day off because of the pain in the middle of a slump, then he would also need a day off in the middle of a hot streak due to the pain. The pain doesn't just pick and choose when it comes and goes with a chronic injury. It's always there. Either man up and accept the fact that you aren't playing well and work your way through the slump, or take your days off when you're hot too. It's incredibly predictable when the thumb is going to "flair up" for him. Go 0-4? Well, if he has another 0 fer the next day you can all but guarantee that thumb will be hurting bad enough for him to need a day to rest it the following day. But if somehow he goes 0-4 and follows it up by a 2-4 day with a homer and double, no problem.
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Tough to answer I'm sure, because you obviously have no idea. How the hell do you know when it hurts and when it doesn't? When it flares up, and when it doesn't hurt? What impact getting jammed on a inside pitch may have? How much good a day off might do?
Fact is you have no friggin clue if it may hurt one day but feel fine the next. You're simply making crap up to fit your "it's obviously that he's not taking PEDs" narrative.
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The point is, quit using the excuse as fans. If it was affecting his play, he would not be playing.
Who would be?
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Who would be?
A player of common skills available for minimum cost to a major league baseball team. A team of replacement-level players would be expected to win a baseline minimum number of games, typically 40-50, per 162 game season.
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A player of common skills available for minimum cost to a major league baseball team. A team of replacement-level players would be expected to win a baseline minimum number of games, typically 40-50, per 162 game season.
That's great, but who is that guy on the brewers' roster, for whom Segura should "pull himself?"
For the record I don't really use the son thing as an excuse (he already wasn't hitting). Is it a minor factor, yeah probably, but the bigger issue is they simply don't have a better option at the position.
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Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Tough to answer I'm sure, because you obviously have no idea. How the hell do you know when it hurts and when it doesn't? When it flares up, and when it doesn't hurt? What impact getting jammed on a inside pitch may have? How much good a day off might do?
Fact is you have no friggin clue if it may hurt one day but feel fine the next. You're simply making crap up to fit your "it's obviously that he's not taking PEDs" narrative.
So it's just a big coincidence that it only hurts when he's slumping? Interesting. That's my point. I have yet to see him need a day off when he's hot. That's exactly the point. He needs days off, but somehow it magically only hurts when he's 0 for his last 12. It has never hurt him when he's going 5 for 12. How is that? That's crazy. I wish my body would pick and choose when it wanted to fail me like that. Work's busy? Wow, I just magically came down with the flu boss. Slow day and I'll be able to leave early? Yup, feeling great! How convenient.
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That's great, but who is that guy on the brewers' roster, for whom Segura should "pull himself?"
Why do they have to be on roster?
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That's great, but who is that guy on the brewers' roster, for whom Segura should "pull himself?"
For the record I don't really use the son thing as an excuse (he already wasn't hitting). Is it a minor factor, yeah probably, but the bigger issue is they simply don't have a better option at the position.
If they were true contenders, they could have gotten a so/so SS for cheap off waivers.
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So it's just a big coincidence that it only hurts when he's slumping? Interesting. That's my point. I have yet to see him need a day off when he's hot. That's exactly the point. He needs days off, but somehow it magically only hurts when he's 0 for his last 12. It has never hurt him when he's going 5 for 12. How is that? That's crazy. I wish my body would pick and choose when it wanted to fail me like that. Work's busy? Wow, I just magically came down with the flu boss. Slow day and I'll be able to leave early? Yup, feeling great! How convenient.
Holy cow, do you read what you write? So you are suggesting that the thumb bothers him because he isn't hitting, as opposed to him not hitting because the thumb is bothering him? Got it. Seriously, which one is the more logical chicken, and which one is the more logical egg? Though I'm not sure asking you to use logic on this topic is wise, given that you are intent on trying to make the whole thing fit your PED narrative.
Is it a coincidence it hurts when he's slumping? No, more likely it is the reason he's slumping when it hurts. Is that really hard to get a handle on? I have to assume the concept of an injury affecting a players play is not a foreign one to you. Happens all the time in every sport. Apparently in your odd little baseball world though, that couldn't possibly apply to Ryan Braun. I'm out on this one. Your arguments couldn't be more silly.
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If they were true contenders, they could have gotten a so/so SS for cheap off waivers.
Good catch, given that 8/31 was 4 days ago...that's why they need to be on the roster. How do you know they didn't try? You don't. What would they have had to give up to get said replacement level SS (even though Segura is still slightly AR, despite the horrible season)? Would it have been worth the incremental improvement? You have no idea. Trades don't just happen because you ask nicely, you need a willing partner. Using your logic, since its so easy, they should have just gone out and picked up a 1B and another SP or two as well.
Anyway, that's not even close to the argument you were making...a few posts ago it wasn't about Doug Melvin, it was about RR...saying...
"Then he and/or RR should remove him from the lineup."
"just do something"
or that he should "pull himself."
That's great to say, but the question you cannot seem to answer is who specifically should RR or Jean Segura have put in there in his place? Who is, was, or will be the better alternative? Very easy to say that stuff, a little harder to wave your magic wand and make a MLB SS appear.
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Holy cow, do you read what you write? So you are suggesting that the thumb bothers him because he isn't hitting, as opposed to him not hitting because the thumb is bothering him? Got it. Seriously, which one is the more logical chicken, and which one is the more logical egg? Though I'm not sure asking you to use logic on this topic is wise, given that you are intent on trying to make the whole thing fit your PED narrative.
Is it a coincidence it hurts when he's slumping? No, more likely it is the reason he's slumping when it hurts. Is that really hard to get a handle on? I have to assume the concept of an injury affecting a players play is not a foreign one to you. Happens all the time in every sport. Apparently in your odd little baseball world though, that couldn't possibly apply to Ryan Braun. I'm out on this one. Your arguments couldn't be more silly.
I have a bridge that I'll sell you if you think Ryan Braun slumps because of a thumb injury and that it's just a coincidence that he's played through injuries prior to being caught using PEDs and still raked, yet now a thumb injury is going to take him from a .330, 35-40 homer guy down to .275, 22 homer guy. But hey, it's not the PEDs, it's the thumb.
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It's not just Braun's thumb that's bothering him. My guess is that his intercostal seems to have flared up again... bat speed (and power) comes from the arms and the torso, not the thumb. You can swing a bat at normal speed using eight fingers... it might feel loose in your hands, but with batting gloves and enough pine tar, it isn't going anywhere. Thumbs, however, are crucial to control of the bat during the swing... one bad thumb could cause the bat to waggle a little as you swing, and in a game where millimeters matter when it comes to hitting the ball, it's awfully hard to square up the ball when you don't have the full capacity of your thumbs.
Attribute it to whatever you want, but Braun is going to be battling these things for a long time because his body apparently doesn't heal very well.
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I have a bridge that I'll sell you if you think Ryan Braun slumps because of a thumb injury and that it's just a coincidence that he's played through injuries prior to being caught using PEDs and still raked, yet now a thumb injury is going to take him from a .330, 35-40 homer guy down to .275, 22 homer guy. But hey, it's not the PEDs, it's the thumb.
Interesting...Melke Cabrera, Bartolo Colon, Nelson Cruz, Johnny Peralta, Edinson Volquez, Marlon Byrd...just to name a few. All received similar suspensions, yet some of them are having the best years they've ever had. So the PEDs they took, what, made them worse? But yet agin, in your odd baseball world, it seems Ryan Braun is only capable of being a good baseball player if he takes PEDs, despite the fact the everyone associated with the team...RR, Doug Melvin, Gord Ash, have talked about the thumb injury and its impact on his play. But you're probably right, I'll trust your obviously uneducated opinion over theirs.
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Bat speed isn't there. Is it the injury? Maybe, I guess. But maybe the lack of being on PEDs for the first time since early in college (at the earliest) is causing more injures. And why is the thumb only a problem when he's slumping? If it's a chronic problem it hurts regardless of whether he is performing well at the plate or not. If he needs a day off because of the pain in the middle of a slump, then he would also need a day off in the middle of a hot streak due to the pain. The pain doesn't just pick and choose when it comes and goes with a chronic injury. It's always there. Either man up and accept the fact that you aren't playing well and work your way through the slump, or take your days off when you're hot too. It's incredibly predictable when the thumb is going to "flair up" for him. Go 0-4? Well, if he has another 0 fer the next day you can all but guarantee that thumb will be hurting bad enough for him to need a day to rest it the following day. But if somehow he goes 0-4 and follows it up by a 2-4 day with a homer and double, no problem.
you must still be fairly young and not have any chronic injuries - I have a few injuries that I can go for a week or a month and have no pain at all until I somehow tweak it and then it can be constant pain for a week/month(s)
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This has to be the worst argument I've never been in.
I've never seen such a dumb counter. I don't care the answer the question you are asking me, stop using the crapty excuse.
Quite frankly, if you're too ridden with emotion to play baseball and you're hurting the team, stop playing. I don't think he is, I think he's an overrated offensive player with a good glove that will play slightly above replacement level baseball for the rest of his career.
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This has to be the worst argument I've never been in.
I've never seen such a dumb counter. I don't care the answer the question you are asking me, stop using the crapty excuse.
Quite frankly, if you're too ridden with emotion to play baseball and you're hurting the team, stop playing. I don't think he is, I think he's an overrated offensive player with a good glove that will play slightly above replacement level baseball for the rest of his career.
Which argument are you in? There's a lot of schlock going around right now.
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Which argument are you in? There's a lot of schlock going around right now.
Something about how Segura's tears are tasty.
(http://user-cdn.spring.me/photos/20130827/n521d036c0a15d.gif)
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The way the Brewers have been playing lately part of me just wants the Cards to sweep them so I can forget about baseball and move onto football.
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The way the Brewers have been playing lately part of me just wants the Cards to sweep them so I can forget about baseball and move onto football.
You haven't already done that? The Brewers are done. I will tacitly watch on the off chance I'm wrong the WC does open up a world of possibilities), but I've already written this season off.
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You haven't already done that? The Brewers are done. I will tacitly watch on the off chance I'm wrong the WC does open up a world of possibilities), but I've already written this season off.
The Packers start tonight so its all good.
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You haven't already done that? The Brewers are done. I will tacitly watch on the off chance I'm wrong the WC does open up a world of possibilities), but I've already written this season off.
I'm giving them this last series to see what happens.
And yes thank goodness the Packers start tonight. Not a must-win but would be nice to come out of Seattle with a W. The Fail Mary and their season last year has caused me to develop a strong dislike for the Seahawks
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Nail. In. The. Coffin.
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Nail. In. The. Coffin.
Y.E.S.
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The silver lining here is the humor found in a team going from a 6.5 game lead in their division to out of the wild card waiting until the latter to have a team meeting.
If you're going to have a team meeting... maybe do it when you fall into a tie for the division? If you're going to wait until the first week of September when you fall out of the WC, is any meeting necessary at that point?
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Better question, is a team meeting necessary at any point? Always wondered what it is exactly that they supposedly accomplish.
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Better question, is a team meeting necessary at any point? Always wondered what it is exactly that they supposedly accomplish.
I mean, their manager is so fiery and inspiring that I didn't think they'd need another meeting after he called one in Chicago.
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So the fire Ron Roenicke drum beat seems to be getting a little louder. I think that would just be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but it got me wondering, what can a manager really do? Firing the manager is page 1 of the shake things up play book, but I just don't see that happening, nor should it, so what could RR (or any manager in the same position) actually do to have any sort of meaningful impact in the team?
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Hope not for RR's sake....really good man. But, hey, if they do, we'll take him back in a heartbeat.
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Funny thing how RR goes from leading COY candidate to hot seat in a mere 2 weeks.
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So the fire Ron Roenicke drum beat seems to be getting a little louder. I think that would just be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but it got me wondering, what can a manager really do? Firing the manager is page 1 of the shake things up play book, but I just don't see that happening, nor should it, so what could RR (or any manager in the same position) actually do to have any sort of meaningful impact in the team?
If anyone is to blame it is Melvin...not RR. The Brewers organization from the top down doesn't have the depth of talent that it needs. Baseball Prospectus ranks it 29th out of 30. That's why they have to plug in not quite good enough free agents in the bullpen, and at first base.
Look at the Cardinals. Every year they seem to bring up new talent, and it is talent that plays the way they want.
I like RR. The players like him. He is one of the reasons why Braun signed his extension (which seemed like a bargain at the time), and players like Ramirez say he is the best manager he has ever played for. I just think he has been given a not-quite-complete team and can't make it work any longer.
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Not sure how to fix the mess. I don't doubt Roenicke being fied may happen, if anything because writing off the last six weeks of the season and going into next year status quo won't do and manager is the too-easy change. RR's made some dumb decisions, but not anything that comes close to causing a team to lose 15 out of 18 games and not be competitive in most.
Funny thing how RR goes from leading COY candidate to hot seat in a mere 2 weeks.
Ned Yost (http://Ned Yost) likes this.
If anyone is to blame it is Melvin...not RR. The Brewers organization from the top down doesn't have the depth of talent that it needs. Baseball Prospectus ranks it 29th out of 30. That's why they have to plug in not quite good enough free agents in the bullpen, and at first base.
We made the jump out of the cellar in farm rankings? That's practically noteworthy after such a long run at the bottom.
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We made the jump out of the cellar in farm rankings? That's practically noteworthy after such a long run at the bottom.
Baseball Prospectus had them 27th last year.
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Another W for Kershaw. How many wins does he need for MVP consideration?
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Another W for Kershaw. How many wins does he need for MVP consideration?
I heard Lucroy had that all wrapped up, hey?
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Another W for Kershaw. How many wins does he need for MVP consideration?
I think he is already in consideration. Right now I think it goes to Stanton, but Kershaw is lurking.
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I have a bridge that I'll sell you if you think Ryan Braun slumps because of a thumb injury and that it's just a coincidence that he's played through injuries prior to being caught using PEDs and still raked, yet now a thumb injury is going to take him from a .330, 35-40 homer guy down to .275, 22 homer guy. But hey, it's not the PEDs, it's the thumb.
More lying from the Brewers huh wades???
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/274538181.html
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More lying from the Brewers huh wades???
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/274538181.html
When he's a career .280 hitter averaging 20 homers a game for the rest of his career I hope you continue to think his hand is the reason for it and it had nothing to do with the fact that he was using PEDs. That will be hilarious.
If his hand is so bad then he should've had the surgery that could have helped him while he was suspended for the final 60 games of last season plus the entire off season. If it's not bad enough to do that surgery, then quit using it as an excuse every time you go into a slump.
If it's that bad let's see when he's back in the lineup. Personally, if it's bad enough that he dipped from a .310 career hitter that averaged over 30 homers per game to now a .273 hitter struggling to reach 20 homers, then why is he playing at all? That must be a pretty serious injury. And if it is now suddenly worse and has somehow extended beyond just the thumb and into the hand, then he should be shelved for the year. Instead, he will be back tomorrow, because in reality he just isn't performing so suddenly he needs just one day off to reset. That seems to have worked throughout the second half of the season for him really well, so might as well keep doing it. Wait...
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When he's a career .280 hitter averaging 20 homers a game for the rest of his career I hope you continue to think his hand is the reason for it and it had nothing to do with the fact that he was using PEDs. That will be hilarious.
Don't change the argument. The debate has always been about this year. Not his career.
If his hand is so bad then he should've had the surgery that could have helped him while he was suspended for the final 60 games of last season plus the entire off season. If it's not bad enough to do that surgery, then quit using it as an excuse every time you go into a slump.
There is a difference between "a reason" and "an excuse."
If it's that bad let's see when he's back in the lineup. Personally, if it's bad enough that he dipped from a .310 career hitter that averaged over 30 homers per game to now a .273 hitter struggling to reach 20 homers, then why is he playing at all? That must be a pretty serious injury. And if it is now suddenly worse and has somehow extended beyond just the thumb and into the hand, then he should be shelved for the year. Instead, he will be back tomorrow, because in reality he just isn't performing so suddenly he needs just one day off to reset. That seems to have worked throughout the second half of the season for him really well, so might as well keep doing it. Wait...
So earlier you said it was about the PEDs and not an injury.
But now you seem to admit that the injury was the reason, but you are banging on him for trying to play through it. Whatever.
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But yeah, why would I ever doubt Ryan Braun? He would never lie. Ever.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yKCVrfzaU
This is the first time I've listened to this since he was officially suspended. This is truly unbelievable. How anybody could possibly stand up there and say that to anybody, let alone go on national TV and say those things, is well beyond me.
But hey, if you want to believe Ryan Braun, by all means don't let me talk you out of it.
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Don't change the argument. The debate has always been about this year. Not his career.
There is a difference between "a reason" and "an excuse."
So earlier you said it was about the PEDs and not an injury.
But now you seem to admit that the injury was the reason, but you are banging on him for trying to play through it. Whatever.
Agreed, the debate is about this year. So next year if he goes back to being a .320 hitter and hitting 35 homers I will gladly admit to being wrong and agree that this injury was a big issue. But, after an offseason to get healthy, when he continues to be a .280 hitter with 20 homers that doesn't go to show he's just not as good without the use of PEDs? He just somehow, at 29 years of age (again, this is baseball, not the playing life of an NFL running back), declined that much and it has nothing to do with being caught using PEDs and having to be off of them for the first time since college? Wow. That is some big time coincidence. But let me guess, the hand injury will still be the problem next year.
It is PEDs. I'm saying he is completely milking everything he can out of this injury. The fact is he's not performing because he can't perform at the level he did while on PEDs. I'm saying if this injury were truly that bad why is he playing? That's the question. And the answer is it's not that bad. If there is an injury that drops your BA 30 points and takes 15 homers from your performance then you should get it fixed, not take 1 day every time you slump. But there is no fix. Other than PEDs.
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But yeah, why would I ever doubt Ryan Braun? He would never lie. Ever.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yKCVrfzaU
This is the first time I've listened to this since he was officially suspended. This is truly unbelievable. How anybody could possibly stand up there and say that to anybody, let alone go on national TV and say those things, is well beyond me.
But hey, if you want to believe Ryan Braun, by all means don't let me talk you out of it.
I'm not believing Braun...I'm believing the Brewers.
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If his hand is so bad then he should've had the surgery that could have helped him while he was suspended for the final 60 games of last season plus the entire off season. If it's not bad enough to do that surgery, then quit using it as an excuse every time you go into a slump.
In discussing the situation earlier in the season, Braun said different experts had been consulted and possible surgical options discussed but none provided enough of a guarantee that the issue would be corrected. So, he has tried to play through it while using various forms of padding on the bat and in his batting glove.
If it's that bad let's see when he's back in the lineup. Personally, if it's bad enough that he dipped from a .310 career hitter that averaged over 30 homers per game to now a .273 hitter struggling to reach 20 homers, then why is he playing at all? That must be a pretty serious injury. And if it is now suddenly worse and has somehow extended beyond just the thumb and into the hand, then he should be shelved for the year. Instead, he will be back tomorrow, because in reality he just isn't performing so suddenly he needs just one day off to reset. That seems to have worked throughout the second half of the season for him really well, so might as well keep doing it. Wait...
What medical school did you attend, and how long ago was it you examined Braun? You spew this crap like its fact, but you have absolutely no friggin clue what you're talking about. Why play at all? Well, maybe because that's what the a brewers pay him to do. Maybe the trainers and doctors say he can play with it if he can deal with the pain. Maybe because .280 is exponentially better than sticking Logan Schaefer out there. There are plenty of reasons not to shut it down completely. But, as usual, you throw these medical opinions out there, with no actual knowledge of the situation to support your theory that the entire Brewer organization is in on this elaborate ruse, to support your argument than Braun simply cannot hit if he doesn't use PEDs.
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In discussing the situation earlier in the season, Braun said different experts had been consulted and possible surgical options discussed but none provided enough of a guarantee that the issue would be corrected. So, he has tried to play through it while using various forms of padding on the bat and in his batting glove.
What medical school did you attend, and how long ago was it you examined Braun? You spew this crap like its fact, but you have absolutely no friggin clue what you're talking about. Why play at all? Well, maybe because that's what the a brewers pay him to do. Maybe the trainers and doctors say he can play with it if he can deal with the pain. Maybe because .280 is exponentially better than sticking Logan Schaefer out there. There are plenty of reasons not to shut it down completely. But, as usual, you throw these medical opinions out there, with no actual knowledge of the situation to support your theory that the entire Brewer organization is in on this elaborate ruse, to support your argument than Braun simply cannot hit if he doesn't use PEDs.
Let me know when he starts to hit without PEDs
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Let me know when he starts to hit without PEDs
Check out his numbers from the first couple months of this season, and let me know how those look. You can sign me up for a .950 OPS any time. Apparently he decided to stop taking PEDs on June 1st for some reason. Seems logical.
Good job trying to run from your ridiculous unsupportable arguments as usual though.
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Check out his numbers from the first couple months of this season, and let me know how those look. You can sign me up for a .950 OPS any time. Apparently he decided to stop taking PEDs on June 1st for some reason. Seems logical.
Good job trying to run from your ridiculous unsupportable arguments as usual though.
So wait. You just quoted an article saying he looked into surgical options after being suspended last year. This is a chronic injury. Something still affecting him to this day, over a year later. So he wasn't hurting to start the season? And now he's slumping so the hand is why. If it's a chronic injury, it was bothering him when he was playing last season, he looked into options to have it fixed when he was suspended, chose not to because the options may not have helped anyways, but the chronic injury...went away for a few months to start the year? And reappeared? Man. That's unlike any chronic injury I've ever heard of before.
You're proving my point. He's apparently had this "lingering" thumb issue since last year. Why, when he was at least hitting for a respectable average, did he not need days off like he does now if he has been battling this chronic thumb injury for over a year? If you can play through it while you're hot, why can't you play through it while you're not? If we're being honest here, every single player who has been healthy for a majority of a 162 game season is dinged up in some way. No player is playing pain free at this point of the season. But the only guy I continually see needing a day off after a 4-20 streak is Ryan Braun. Why?
Again, maybe he'll go back to being a .315, 35 homer guy next year and I'll eat crow. I'd put a lot of money on that not happening. Maybe you and other "loyal" Milwaukee fans will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt that suddenly there's this chronic injury that is going to derail his entire Hall of Fame career (because the numbers he put up while on PEDs were certainly sending him in that direction). I guess time will tell.
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I think he is already in consideration. Right now I think it goes to Stanton, but Kershaw is lurking.
Hope not. Having a player that only impacts a team every 5 games as a MVP is a sham. Even more of a sham giving it to a DH.
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So wait. You just quoted an article saying he looked into surgical options after being suspended last year. This is a chronic injury. Something still affecting him to this day, over a year later. So he wasn't hurting to start the season? And now he's slumping so the hand is why. If it's a chronic injury, it was bothering him when he was playing last season, he looked into options to have it fixed when he was suspended, chose not to because the options may not have helped anyways, but the chronic injury...went away for a few months to start the year? And reappeared? Man. That's unlike any chronic injury I've ever heard of before.
As usual your willful ignorance is on full display...you think maybe a chronic issue might get worse after a few months of playing 25 games a month than it would be after a few months of resting. Of course you do. You're just not man enough to admit it.
But let's assume your right...how exactly do you explain the .950 ops for that first third of the season? Had to be taking PEDs, right? If he was? Why did he stop? If he wasn't, why did he stop hitting?
BTW, you obviously don't know anything about chronic injuries. Do they rise and fall? Why yes, of course they do.
I'm out. Continue to make your stupid arguments that in order to make sense, not only require Braun to have taken PEDs for the first two months of this season only, and then stopped, but also that the entire Brewer organization, beat reporters, media etc. play along with the whole fake thumb injury story.
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As usual your willful ignorance is on full display...you think maybe a chronic issue might get worse after a few months of playing 25 games a month than it would be after a few months of resting. Of course you do. You're just not man enough to admit it.
But let's assume your right...how exactly do you explain the .950 ops for that first third of the season? Had to be taking PEDs, right? If he was? Why did he stop? If he wasn't, why did he stop hitting?
BTW, you obviously don't know anything about chronic injuries. Do they rise and fall? Why yes, of course they do.
I'm out. Continue to make your stupid arguments that in order to make sense, not only require Braun to have taken PEDs for the first two months of this season only, and then stopped, but also that the entire Brewer organization, beat reporters, media etc. play along with the whole fake thumb injury story.
Had to be taking PEDs because he was "hot" for a month? Uhh, no. Players go on hot streaks, just like they go on cold streaks. That's the problem here. That's been the problem all along. The body doesn't pick and choose convenient times to get sore and be hurting. The body doesn't decide, "Hey, you're cold at the plate, so now it's time for this thumb to flare up." A chronic injury is going to hurt whether you're performing well or not at the plate. Players get hot for a month. It's a 162 game season for a reason. JJ Hardy used to be the best player in baseball for half of seasons at a time, and then the worst for the other half of the season. Ryan Braun can get on base with decent regularity for a month without PEDs. When he doesn't have those for a season, he's off the field and not performing consistently.
You can talk about how him raking for the first month all you want. That's simply not true. He had 2 good games where he hit 5 home runs combined in 2 games. Throughout the entire rest of the first half of the season he had a total of 6 home runs. That is far from the consistent power he had prior to this year. Even including the 5 homers in 2 games, that's 11 in the first half of the season (and by first half I went with up to the All Star break, which is more than the 81 games that is truly half of a baseball season), so he was on pace for less than 22 home runs this season. The guy averaged roughly 35 a year for his career up until this point. If you somehow think the thumb magically wasn't bothering him when he was "hot" to start the season, then why was he only on pace to hit 62% of the home runs that he has hit in his career. Is 30 old in baseball? Is he just naturally declining due to age? I don't think so, but clearly you know more than me, so that must be it, right? I don't know. PEDs did nothing to help his numbers/performance on the field and I'm just some crazy, naive, pessimist who knows nothing. That's what you're telling me. So there's just some reasonable explanation for a 40% dip in his home runs. Makes sense. My bad.
PEDs have allowed Braun to stay healthy and consistently perform. Does it really come as a surprise to you that neither of those things are happening this season? You really think it's just a big coincidence that the first season he cannot possibly take PEDs is the first season he isn't a top 5 player in the MLB? Fine. Believe Braun. Believe he just *happened* to be taking them the one time that he *happened* to have only triple the testosterone in his body that the average male adult has in his body. Believe that he was taking them to *recover* from an injury, even though he had been back from said injury for months by that point. Believe that ARod had been using steroids while training at Miami University at the same time that Ryan Braun was playing at Miami University, but Ryan Braun saw ARod's success and nearly $300 million contract and said "No way, man, no chance I take that stuff." Believe that he just happened to become one of the best players in baseball. Believe that a thumb injury at 28 years old (when it started to bother him) will change him from a Hall of Fame player to an average left fielder in one season. Believe it man. Don't let me stop you! And believe Dino tampered the sample. Believe it all. Ryan Braun is one trustworthy dude.
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Hope not. Having a player that only impacts a team every 5 games as a MVP is a sham. Even more of a sham giving it to a DH.
The reality is that pitchers have won it, and he is having a season where I think he will finish second in voting.
And the worst is when relief pitchers win it.
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The obvious choice is Stanton - he is the best offensive player in the league, but is he the most valuable?
That pitchers have their own award means nothing. The MVP is for the most valuable player regardless of position. Without Kershaw, there is no way the Dodgers win the division. None. Without Kershaw, they would be fighting for a wild card right now.
There is no doubt that he is the single most important player to his team in the NL. Everyone knows that. The question to be debated is whether a pitcher should get the MVP, And for me it is quite simple.
Just ask "is he the most valuable player in the NL. If so, he should get the award regardless of position.
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Hope not. Having a player that only impacts a team every 5 games as a MVP is a sham. Even more of a sham giving it to a DH.
I don't think this is right. Kershaw will face more batters than any batter will have plate appearances. For you to believe a guy with 1/5th the games played as a position player can win, you would have to believe that he has 5 times the impact on the game he starts than does a position player. That's not ridiculous when it comes to a starting pitcher who regularly pitches late in games. I think starters deserve the MVP in extreme cases (Guys like Ron Guidry in 1978, Dwight Gooden in 1985, Pedro Martinez in 1999, none of whom won the award). Clemens in 1986 and Verlander in 2011 were solid choices.
Relievers/closers should never be considered for the award, as they face maybe 200-300 batters/year. Not enough impact, but starters, who can face 1,000 hitters a year, are legit to me if they are good enough. Kershaw is certainly good enough. The Dodgers are 20-4 (.833) when he starts and 62-59 (.512) when he doesn't. At that rate that'd be 74-71 and fighting for their playoff lives without him, instead of being comfortably in the playoffs with a 82-63 record. That's a valuable guy.
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Let me know when he starts to hit without PEDs
Here's a brain buster... does a PED have to "enhance performance" in order to be a PED?
If so, why are amphetamines (which are clinically proven to enhance performance) not considered a PED under MLB's policy?
Is it possible that some PEDs don't actually make you stronger or enhance your performance, but simply help you recover from an injury faster? In which case, wouldn't a "post-PED" decline in statistics be more accurately attributable to the happenstance of injury.
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Here's a brain buster... does a PED have to "enhance performance" in order to be a PED?
If so, why are amphetamines (which are clinically proven to enhance performance) not considered a PED under MLB's policy?
Is it possible that some PEDs don't actually make you stronger or enhance your performance, but simply help you recover from an injury faster? In which case, wouldn't a "post-PED" decline in statistics be more accurately attributable to the happenstance of injury.
Yes that is possible. Braun has been using PEDs since college, though. I guess he could've used them only to help recover from injuries for the past 10 years, but I find it pretty unlikely given that Alex Rodrigeuz was down at The U during Braun's playing days there. Oh, and Tony Bosh's lab was right across the street from The U. Do you really believe that Ryan Braun turned to Tony Bosh for some PEDs to help him recover from injury, not to help put up better numbers? Do you believe any of the players linked to Tony Bosh took PEDs? Took them to help their numbers and not just to recover from injury? Again, I think it's absolutely ludicrous if you truly believe Ryan Braun, a person who turned to Tony Bosh, took PEDs only once, happened to get tested at that one moment, had THREE TIMES the level of testosterone in his body that a normal male adult has if he is ONLY using PEDs to overcome an injury, was still taking the PEDs months after returning from the injury, etc., but it was all just a used to overcome an injury. That makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
I guess this question will simplify the debate: Do you believe that Ryan Braun will ever be a .310 hitter with 30 home runs again? And those are on the low end of what he was doing on a yearly basis throughout his professional career up until this season.
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Yes that is possible. Braun has been using PEDs since college, though. I guess he could've used them only to help recover from injuries for the past 10 years, but I find it pretty unlikely given that Alex Rodrigeuz was down at The U during Braun's playing days there. Oh, and Tony Bosh's lab was right across the street from The U. Do you really believe that Ryan Braun turned to Tony Bosh for some PEDs to help him recover from injury, not to help put up better numbers? Do you believe any of the players linked to Tony Bosh took PEDs? Took them to help their numbers and not just to recover from injury? Again, I think it's absolutely ludicrous if you truly believe Ryan Braun, a person who turned to Tony Bosh, took PEDs only once, happened to get tested at that one moment, had THREE TIMES the level of testosterone in his body that a normal male adult has if he is ONLY using PEDs to overcome an injury, was still taking the PEDs months after returning from the injury, etc., but it was all just a used to overcome an injury. That makes absolutely 0 sense to me.
I guess this question will simplify the debate: Do you believe that Ryan Braun will ever be a .310 hitter with 30 home runs again? And those are on the low end of what he was doing on a yearly basis throughout his professional career up until this season.
I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but I would caution the part about "what he was doing on a yearly basis throughout his professional career up until this season" part... it would probably serve your argument to look only at his professional career. There are a multitude of guys who put up crazy numbers in the minors and fissiled out in the majors, or at least exponentially more than there are HOFers who put up mediocre numbers in the minors.
I certainly think Braun will have multiple stretches of 20-40 game that would extrapolate into a .300/30/100 season, but I see him as an injury-prone guy who won't stay healthy long enough to post those stats over 162 games. In other words, if Braun could stay healthy for an entire season, I think he easily puts up a few more .300/30/100 seasons, but I don't think it ever happens again.
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I'm not arguing with what you're saying, but I would caution the part about "what he was doing on a yearly basis throughout his professional career up until this season" part... it would probably serve your argument to look only at his professional career. There are a multitude of guys who put up crazy numbers in the minors and fissiled out in the majors, or at least exponentially more than there are HOFers who put up mediocre numbers in the minors.
I certainly think Braun will have multiple stretches of 20-40 game that would extrapolate into a .300/30/100 season, but I see him as an injury-prone guy who won't stay healthy long enough to post those stats over 162 games. In other words, if Braun could stay healthy for an entire season, I think he easily puts up a few more .300/30/100 seasons, but I don't think it ever happens again.
Fair points. It's hard to argue with any of that. Maybe time will tell or maybe we'll never really find out.
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So the fire Ron Roenicke drum beat seems to be getting a little louder. I think that would just be throwing the baby out with the bath water, but it got me wondering, what can a manager really do? Firing the manager is page 1 of the shake things up play book, but I just don't see that happening, nor should it, so what could RR (or any manager in the same position) actually do to have any sort of meaningful impact in the team?
So I got to thinking more about this, and there is really very little that can be done. There are a couple things I would do today however...
1) With Broxton now on the team, I would publicly demote K-Rod, probably to the 7th inning. Not that I think he's incapable of closing out games necessarily, but it does constitute a fairly bold move that will get some attention.
2) I would put jason Rogers in the lineup at 1B. Why not. I would also consider releasing Mark Reynolds. The guy hasn't had a hit in a month. With expanded rosters there is no real reason to release him, beside a symbolic one. Again however, sometimes there needs to be a sacrificial lamb.
3) If Braun plays, drop him way down in the order....something to the effect of...Gomez, Gennett, LuCroy, ARam, Davis, Rogers, Braun, Segura, P
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So I got to thinking more about this, and there is really very little that can be done. There are a couple things I would do today however...
1) With Broxton now on the team, I would publicly demote K-Rod, probably to the 7th inning. Not that I think he's incapable of closing out games necessarily, but it does constitute a fairly bold move that will get some attention.
2) I would put jason Rogers in the lineup at 1B. Why not. I would also consider releasing Mark Reynolds. The guy hasn't had a hit in a month. With expanded rosters there is no real reason to release him, beside a symbolic one. Again however, sometimes there needs to be a sacrificial lamb.
3) If Braun plays, drop him way down in the order....something to the effect of...Gomez, Gennett, LuCroy, ARam, Davis, Rogers, Braun, Segura, P
I like all 3 of these. Don't release Reynolds, however. If the changes work and they somehow win enough games to eke into the Wildcard playoff game, you may need Reynolds since Rogers isn't playoff eligible.
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So I got to thinking more about this, and there is really very little that can be done. There are a couple things I would do today however...
1) With Broxton now on the team, I would publicly demote K-Rod, probably to the 7th inning. Not that I think he's incapable of closing out games necessarily, but it does constitute a fairly bold move that will get some attention.
2) I would put jason Rogers in the lineup at 1B. Why not. I would also consider releasing Mark Reynolds. The guy hasn't had a hit in a month. With expanded rosters there is no real reason to release him, beside a symbolic one. Again however, sometimes there needs to be a sacrificial lamb.
3) If Braun plays, drop him way down in the order....something to the effect of...Gomez, Gennett, LuCroy, ARam, Davis, Rogers, Braun, Segura, P
Navin, I agree with all three, as well. But I wonder why you want KRod to be publicly demoted. I don't think there is any way for any coach or manager to lose control of his team quicker than when he throws his players under the bus.
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Navin, I agree with all three, as well. But I wonder why you want KRod to be publicly demoted. I don't think there is any way for any coach or manager to lose control of his team quicker than when he throws his players under the bus.
I'm not saying he has to be a dick about it. I'm just saying tell the media pre-game that Broxton is the closer moving forward. It is a subtle shot across the bow to the rest of the players, and just a little bit of a shake up. KRod deserves a lot of respect, and RR will undoubtedly give it to him, but if the team gets a little twitchy as a result, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
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I'm not saying he has to be a dick about it. I'm just saying tell the media pre-game that Broxton is the closer moving forward. It is a subtle shot across the bow to the rest of the players, and just a little bit of a shake up. KRod deserves a lot of respect, and RR will undoubtedly give it to him, but if the team gets a little twitchy as a result, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
Cool.
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I don't think this is right. Kershaw will face more batters than any batter will have plate appearances. For you to believe a guy with 1/5th the games played as a position player can win, you would have to believe that he has 5 times the impact on the game he starts than does a position player. That's not ridiculous when it comes to a starting pitcher who regularly pitches late in games. I think starters deserve the MVP in extreme cases (Guys like Ron Guidry in 1978, Dwight Gooden in 1985, Pedro Martinez in 1999, none of whom won the award). Clemens in 1986 and Verlander in 2011 were solid choices.
Relievers/closers should never be considered for the award, as they face maybe 200-300 batters/year. Not enough impact, but starters, who can face 1,000 hitters a year, are legit to me if they are good enough. Kershaw is certainly good enough. The Dodgers are 20-4 (.833) when he starts and 62-59 (.512) when he doesn't. At that rate that'd be 74-71 and fighting for their playoff lives without him, instead of being comfortably in the playoffs with a 82-63 record. That's a valuable guy.
+22
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Matt Clark and Jason Rogers may be the new duo at 1B.
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Matt Clark and Jason Rogers may be the new duo at 1B.
Maybe for the rest of the year. I'm hoping next year they move either Braun or Davis (Braun makes more sense in terms of where they're at in their careers, but Davis is so unbelievably bad in the out field that it'd be hard to keep him there if you're moving an OF to 1B) to 1B and leave the other in the OF along with Parra and Gomez. Parra, Gomez, Braun, and Davis are 4 of your top 9 guys. It's better to have all 4 of them on the field at once than to have 3 of them and 1 on the bench while Mark Reynolds goes and hits .190.
Resign Ramirez and the only hole in your lineup next year is Segura in the 8 spot, which is fine as long as his defense is up to what he is capable of.
Broxton is the closer next year, look for a little more bullpen help and see what might be out there in terms of starters. While the pitching was far better this year, it pales in comparison to the starting rotations of the teams that are going to be in the playoffs. This is where Braun's contract really screws you over. You're not going to be able to pay a starter a lot of money for even 4 years, Braun's about to eat up $20 million/year. Not good.
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+22
To me it is just that Stanton is having a season in which he deserves the award as a hitter, as that is where the award primarily goes.
Stanton is leading the league in HR (by 7), RBI, BB, SLG, OPS and TB. His OBP is just shy of .400, he has 13 SB, and 30 doubles to go along with it. He is dominating the league on the offensive side.
I just may be Kershaw's biggest fan outside of LA, he is having a season that is pretty much historic. With that being said, if I had a vote for MVP, I'd go Stanton 1, Kershaw 2. If I had votes for Cy Young, I'd vote Kershaw 1,2 and 3.
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As a side note Chris Sale has his ERA for the season below 2. I know there are a few weeks to go, and his ERA is below 2 by the slimmest margin, but that is dang impressive.
I think the AL Cy Young is a two man race between Sale and Felix. I think Felix gets the nod right now because his team in in playoff contention and he has pitched more. But Sale is something else.
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To me it is just that Stanton is having a season in which he deserves the award as a hitter, as that is where the award primarily goes.
Stanton is leading the league in HR (by 7), RBI, BB, SLG, OPS and TB. His OBP is just shy of .400, he has 13 SB, and 30 doubles to go along with it. He is dominating the league on the offensive side.
I just may be Kershaw's biggest fan outside of LA, he is having a season that is pretty much historic. With that being said, if I had a vote for MVP, I'd go Stanton 1, Kershaw 2. If I had votes for Cy Young, I'd vote Kershaw 1,2 and 3.
I don't disagree with your analysis. I just disagree with the idea that a pitcher can't be the most valuable player. I think Stanton and Kershaw are close enough that there isn't a 100% conclusive choice between them. Kershaw is going to the playoffs which helps him, but Stanton is an everyday player, which helps him, since the writers can still reward Kershaw with a Cy Young. It looks like Kershaw is only going to have 27 or 28 starts, not the 32 or 33 you usually get from your top starter. Don't know if that will have an effect on the voting, but I have a feeling that the voting will go the way you said you would vote.
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I don't disagree with your analysis. I just disagree with the idea that a pitcher can't be the most valuable player. I think Stanton and Kershaw are close enough that there isn't a 100% conclusive choice between them. Kershaw is going to the playoffs which helps him, but Stanton is an everyday player, which helps him, since the writers can still reward Kershaw with a Cy Young. It looks like Kershaw is only going to have 27 or 28 starts, not the 32 or 33 you usually get from your top starter. Don't know if that will have an effect on the voting, but I have a feeling that the voting will go the way you said you would vote.
I guess I'd say if there is a position player having a standout year, the award should go to him. Just because there is another award to give the pitcher his due recognition. If there isn't a hitter head and shoulders above the rest, and there is a pitcher who is, I'd say give it to the pitchers.
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I guess I'd say if there is a position player having a standout year, the award should go to him. Just because there is another award to give the pitcher his due recognition. If there isn't a hitter head and shoulders above the rest, and there is a pitcher who is, I'd say give it to the pitchers.
I have never really decided if I liked the Dawson MVP or not. Clearly, the best player. Clearly NOT the most valuable ( since a losing team would still have been a losing team without him.
So, personally, I lean towards Kershaw, but wouldn't be bothered if GianCarlo wins it.
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It certainly looks like Stanton's MVP season is over after that HBP from Fiers.
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Maybe for the rest of the year. I'm hoping next year they move either Braun or Davis (Braun makes more sense in terms of where they're at in their careers, but Davis is so unbelievably bad in the out field that it'd be hard to keep him there if you're moving an OF to 1B) to 1B and leave the other in the OF along with Parra and Gomez. Parra, Gomez, Braun, and Davis are 4 of your top 9 guys. It's better to have all 4 of them on the field at once than to have 3 of them and 1 on the bench while Mark Reynolds goes and hits .190.
Resign Ramirez and the only hole in your lineup next year is Segura in the 8 spot, which is fine as long as his defense is up to what he is capable of.
Broxton is the closer next year, look for a little more bullpen help and see what might be out there in terms of starters. While the pitching was far better this year, it pales in comparison to the starting rotations of the teams that are going to be in the playoffs. This is where Braun's contract really screws you over. You're not going to be able to pay a starter a lot of money for even 4 years, Braun's about to eat up $20 million/year. Not good.
Damn straight on Braun. He put this club in a hole they'll take years to climb outta. He's a hack in the outfield as well. Peddle the cs'er for a box of Cracker Jacks and a used jockstrap, if you can get it.
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Damn straight on Braun. He put this club in a hole they'll take years to climb outta. He's a hack in the outfield as well. Peddle the cs'er for a box of Cracker Jacks and a used jockstrap, if you can get it.
+1
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He's a hack in the outfield as well.
Agreed.
I'm a season ticket holder and have seen in person how bad his outfield play has been this year. Anything hit over his head he just waves at, and he doesn't appear to hustle on balls hit in the corner. He used to be decent in left field with his speed and arm, but now it looks like he's not that interested - maybe move him to first base next year?
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I have never really decided if I liked the Dawson MVP or not. Clearly, the best player. Clearly NOT the most valuable ( since a losing team would still have been a losing team without him.
So, personally, I lean towards Kershaw, but wouldn't be bothered if GianCarlo wins it.
Dawson is often cited as one of the worst MVP choices in history. He was clearly the guy with the most homers and RBIs (which apparently was all voters cared about that year, as George Bell, another poor choice, won in the AL), but was nothing like the best player. Forget that he played on a last place team, there is a much better argument that he wasn't one of the top 10 players than that he was the best player (Among the 19 players receiving MVP votes, he was 13th in WAR)
His sole contribution was slugging and he was 6th in the NL in slugging despite playing in the best power and hitting park in the league.
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It certainly looks like Stanton's MVP season is over after that HBP from Fiers.
That was horrible to watch. What a shame. Hopefully it won't ruin his career like Tony Conigliaro. Kershaw missed about the same amount of time at the beginning of the year, but you're right, this tips the scales in Kershaw's favor, assuming he finishes strong.
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I'm not sure I have ever seen two HBP in a row and neither of them being allowed to take first base. That was very odd. And the Brewers should have taken Fiers out of the game immediately. He was not going to be able to continue after that, and the whole mess after the second HBP could have been avoided.
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Anyone see the marlins broadcast of the whole thing? I don't know who their color analyst is, and I don't care to look it up, but his performance was an absolute embarrassment. Made Hawk Harrelson look sane and rational.
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Tough spot for everyone involved, including Stanton's dad and aunt who were in attendance next to the dugout. I also hope this doesn't affect Fiers' pitching as much as it did last night. He's been a bright spot on this team, top 5 ERA (sub 2.00) since getting into the rotation. Its a good thing there isn't another game today as it could get ugly.
I hope Stanton has a quick recovery as he is obviously a special player.
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Anyone see the marlins broadcast of the whole thing? I don't know who their color analyst is, and I don't care to look it up, but his performance was an absolute embarrassment. Made Hawk Harrelson look sane and rational.
That was an embarassment indeed, for those who haven't seen it MLB.com uses their broadcast for the video clip. That guy wanted to be down there throwing punches
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Just a very odd scene. Goes from everyone being concerned about Stanton and his health to both teams clearing their benches in 1 pitch. Sultan is right, Fiers should've been taken out immediately. No way in heck he was going to put a pitch anywhere close to the strike zone on the next pitch. Then you have the Marlins yelling at the ump because they correctly (but still an odd situation) call strikes on back to back HBP, and Fiers already feels awful enough so he clearly thinks the Marlins are yelling at him. I tip my cap to the Marlins for not retaliating in the next inning. Braun was up 2nd with nobody on and is an obviously easy target with the whole PED situation. Glad they didn't use that as an opportunity to "get even," as things would've gotten very ugly. Nobody is trying to hurt someone. Fiers clearly was trying to come inside and just lost control of it, Stanton wasn't able to turn away from it, etc.
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I tip my cap to the Marlins for not retaliating in the next inning. Braun was up 2nd with nobody on and is an obviously easy target with the whole PED situation. Glad they didn't use that as an opportunity to "get even," as things would've gotten very ugly. Nobody is trying to hurt someone. Fiers clearly was trying to come inside and just lost control of it, Stanton wasn't able to turn away from it, etc.
Gomez got beaned in the bottom of the 6th. Whether or not it was intentional? Who knows.
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Anyone see the marlins broadcast of the whole thing? I don't know who their color analyst is, and I don't care to look it up, but his performance was an absolute embarrassment. Made Hawk Harrelson look sane and rational.
Yeah that was sh*t.
I don't really blame the Marlins players for acting the way they did. But the broadcaster was WWAAAYYY too "unwritten rulezy" for my taste.
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And the Brewers should have taken Fiers out of the game immediately. He was not going to be able to continue after that, and the whole mess after the second HBP could have been avoided.
There are plenty of instances in MLB where a player was hit above the neck and the pitcher continued in the game.
Valerio de los Santos was not removed from the game when he hit Greenberg in 2005.
Dennis Martinez was not lifted when he hit Puckett in 1995.
Unless history proves me wrong, I would be willing to say that those two HBPs were much worse than Stanton's. After all, those HBPs were the last time either batter stepped to the plate; Stanton will [hopefully] be back... if it's just a laceration, it will be the ugliest of the positive-prognosis scenarios that come after taking a beaner to the noggin.
Other recent examples -- Cain sending David Wright off the field in an ambulance. Weeks trying to bunt a Volquez pitch with his mandible. Sometimes you get plunked in the glute, sometimes you get plunked in the melon... it's a part of the game and a danger every batter - and pitcher - recognizes. There was no reason to think that Fiers couldn't have continued after the Stanton plunk. There was reason after the Johnson plunk, and surprise, surprise, he was lifted at that point.
Incidentally, the emotion that Fiers displayed last night was because he wanted to go back out in the 6th.
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Regardless of history, IMO he seemed too emotionally wrought to continue IMO.
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Regardless of history, IMO he seemed too emotionally wrought to continue IMO.
There were also the issue of SP pitching more than 5 innings just once in the previous 5 games, that had to factor into the decision.
Also wonder how much getting a W for Fiers factored in, had he not gotten through the end of the 5th he wouldn't qualify for a W. He'd also been having a spectacular game up to that point.
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I watched the replay and initially thought Fiers came off terribly. I understand the emotion, and agree he shouldn't have been out there, but daring the Marlins bench to come on the field and then spiking the ball while frothing at the mouth looking like a lunatic isn't a good look either. Especially since he just beaned two guys.
HOWEVER, his post game comments in the locker room were sincere, emotional, and well spoken. I feel he redeemed himself well. Just a rough situation all around.
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I don't think Fiers was yelling because he wanted them out on the field.
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I watched the replay and initially thought Fiers came off terribly. I understand the emotion, and agree he shouldn't have been out there, but daring the Marlins bench to come on the field...
?
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I don't think Fiers was yelling because he wanted them out on the field.
Agreed, my interpretation was that he was so upset about them yelling at him as if what he did was intentional. At no moment did he look like he wanted to fight someone. All that was just his emotion about what happened.
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Regardless of history, IMO he seemed too emotionally wrought to continue IMO.
+1
Gomez got beaned in the bottom of the 6th. Whether or not it was intentional? Who knows.
Hah guess that's what I get for speaking up after not watching the rest of the game after the bottom of the 5th.
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There are plenty of instances in MLB where a player was hit above the neck and the pitcher continued in the game.
Valerio de los Santos was not removed from the game when he hit Greenberg in 2005.
Dennis Martinez was not lifted when he hit Puckett in 1995.
Unless history proves me wrong, I would be willing to say that those two HBPs were much worse than Stanton's. After all, those HBPs were the last time either batter stepped to the plate; Stanton will [hopefully] be back... if it's just a laceration, it will be the ugliest of the positive-prognosis scenarios that come after taking a beaner to the noggin.
It seemed like Dennis Martinez pitched in the majors for 50 years.
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Such a shame for Stanton. Hopefully he doesn't have any long term problems from this. He had a great season.
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From the video replay, Stanton is very fortunate the pitch didn't strike him 2 inches higher. As it is he's likely to suffer residual facial, structural, and dental issues for a very long time.
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More beanball action in the Yankees/Rays game last night. 5 yankees beaned and Girardi was furious. Will MLB step in and react like they did with the catcher plate blocking eventually?
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More beanball action in the Yankees/Rays game last night. 5 yankees beaned and Girardi was furious. Will MLB step in and react like they did with the catcher plate blocking eventually?
Geesh I hope not. That rule is a crapfest.
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Can the Brewers please just start Davis, Gomez, Parra in the OF, Gomez at SS, and Clark at 1B for the last 10 games of the season please? You're 2.5 games back of a Playoff spot. You cannot just sit back and keep telling yourself, "Well, maybe Braun and Segura will go back to hitting like they did to start last season, a full 16 months ago." It's well past that point now. Braun is just as much of a guaranteed routine ground out/strikeout as Segura is at this point. Give the team a chance to score some runs and play the guys who at the very least can make productive outs if they aren't going to get on base.
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Brewers shot their load 3 weeks ago, aina?
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Geesh I hope not. That rule is a crapfest.
Ya, it's awful. Just awful. It's clear they don't know how to interpret it. There was a pair of games... White Sox games I think.... a few weeks back with calls about this on consecutive nights that went opposite ways. The split screen of the plays was hilariously similar.
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Ya, it's awful. Just awful. It's clear they don't know how to interpret it. There was a pair of games... White Sox games I think.... a few weeks back with calls about this on consecutive nights that went opposite ways. The split screen of the plays was hilariously similar.
Yeah I guess the rule isn't that terrible, it is just that the judging of it is different every time.
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Yeah I guess the rule isn't that terrible, it is just that the judging of it is different every time.
If they just called the rule like they do at every other level of baseball and with some common sense, it wouldn't be a problem. Simply put, you can't block the plate if you don't have the ball, and if the catcher has the ball you have to slide or avoid. This nonsense where they call the runner safe because the catcher is in front of the plate while the runner is still 40-50 feet away has to stop.
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Did anyone see how Russell Martin reacted to his homerun against the Brewers Friday night? Stood in the box for a good couple seconds and then pounding his chest as he rounded the bases. Isn't this the same guy that picked a fight with Gomez because he didn't like how Gomez watched his homerun awhile back?
Also, Gomez's baserunning in the top of the 9th yesterday because capsulizes the 2014 Brewers, choke jobs. How someone can make that many baserunning errors is astounding.
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Strange season. Seems like every division has a team that looked like solid playoff contenders that really lost ground in the 2nd half (Blue Jays, Tigers, A's, Braves, Brewers, Giants, though it looks like the Tigers, A's and Giants are going to hang on at least for the wild card game).
My condolences to you Brewers fans. No worse or more helpless sports fan feeling than than when your baseball team seems to lose a game in the standings every day in late August/September.
Congrats to Chico's for the Angels.
If I had to pick a World Series I'd say Angels-Nats, with the Orioles and Dodgers as best alternatives. Angels-Dodgers or Nats-O's would be great area grudge matches. There's even an outside chance of an A's-Ginats Series. Not to start another 5 page argument, the baseball playoffs are a real crapshoot because of the nature of the sport, and once you get to the postseason, everybody has a pretty good chance.
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Strange season. Seems like every division has a team that looked like solid playoff contenders that really lost ground in the 2nd half (Blue Jays, Tigers, A's, Braves, Brewers, Giants, though it looks like the Tigers, A's and Giants are going to hang on at least for the wild card game).
My condolences to you Brewers fans. No worse or more helpless sports fan feeling than than when your baseball team seems to lose a game in the standings every day in late August/September.
Congrats to Chico's for the Angels.
If I had to pick a World Series I'd say Angels-Nats, with the Orioles and Dodgers as best alternatives. Angels-Dodgers or Nats-O's would be great area grudge matches. There's even an outside chance of an A's-Ginats Series. Not to start another 5 page argument, the baseball playoffs are a real crapshoot because of the nature of the sport, and once you get to the postseason, everybody has a pretty good chance.
I'll pick the A's vs. the Dodgers. Might be my heart picking it and not my head. Post season success comes down to who has the best 4 man rotation first and who can get the key hit second.
Buccos are hot but I don't see them doing a lot. Injuries have to catch up with the Orioles at some point, right? Tigers have the pitching to get it done but not sure who beyond Cabrera will get a big hit. Nationals are all around just a good team, I just don't like them.
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Olbermann on Jeter.
http://deadspin.com/keith-olbermann-takes-a-big-ol-poo-on-derek-jeter-1638319731
A little harsh but...yeah...
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A little harsh but...yeah...
A little? Way too harsh. Sure Jeter is overrated, the same way Ripken was in Baltimore and Puckett was in Minnesota and Gwynn was in San Diego and Ortiz is in Boston. Of course the media gushing over him is over the top. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer who played for great teams throughout a 20 year career in New York City who had some iconic moments in some very big games. He is the perfect storm of excessive hyping. But all that hype is still grounded in the fact that he was a great player. (Just perhaps not as great as he's being made out to be.)
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Fitting finale to the MVP season for Kershaw. 11ks, 0 bb, a triple, a web gem, NL West clincher over the giants.
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A little? Way too harsh. Sure Jeter is overrated, the same way Ripken was in Baltimore and Puckett was in Minnesota and Gwynn was in San Diego and Ortiz is in Boston. Of course the media gushing over him is over the top. He's a first ballot Hall of Famer who played for great teams throughout a 20 year career in New York City who had some iconic moments in some very big games. He is the perfect storm of excessive hyping. But all that hype is still grounded in the fact that he was a great player. (Just perhaps not as great as he's being made out to be.)
However, statistics deem him to not be a 'great' player. A good player at best.
He's not a first ballot hall of famer if had the same career in any other city. Hell, he wouldn't have played this long in any other city.
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However, statistics deem him to not be a 'great' player. A good player at best.
He's not a first ballot hall of famer if had the same career in any other city. Hell, he wouldn't have played this long in any other city.
I would say you are wrong on all counts. Not sure what statistics you're looking at.
3,461 hits (6th all-time)
1,922 runs (10th all-time)
.309 Lifetime batting average
95.2 Offensive WAR (20th all-time) - He actually has negative defensive WAR (meaning he was below a replacement level defensive SS), which is the biggest knock against him.
He was still supplying well above average offensive value for a shortstop in 2011 (.297) and 2012 (.316, 99 runs, led MLB with 216 hits). He was hurt most of 2013, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that wouldn't have let him play and play a lot this season if it were one of their guys. Look at the last seasons of other Hall of Famers. Pretty much all of them were below average players their last season or two. Jeter hasn't hung on longer after losing productivity than most players of his stature. The Yankees let him stay at SS too long, I'll grant you that.
Anyway, all of the above would make him a no-doubt first ballot Hall of Famer regardless of where he played. I would like to point out that I am a Red Sox fan and as such I pretty much hate Derek Jeter.
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I would say you are wrong on all counts. Not sure what statistics you're looking at.
3,461 hits (6th all-time)
1,922 runs (10th all-time)
.309 Lifetime batting average
95.2 Offensive WAR (20th all-time) - He actually has negative defensive WAR (meaning he was below a replacement level defensive SS), which is the biggest knock against him.
He was still supplying well above average offensive value for a shortstop in 2011 (.297) and 2012 (.316, 99 runs, led MLB with 216 hits). He was hurt most of 2013, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a team that wouldn't have let him play and play a lot this season if it were one of their guys. Look at the last seasons of other Hall of Famers. Pretty much all of them were below average players their last season or two. Jeter hasn't hung on longer after losing productivity than most players of his stature. The Yankees let him stay at SS too long, I'll grant you that.
Anyway, all of the above would make him a no-doubt first ballot Hall of Famer regardless of where he played. I would like to point out that I am a Red Sox fan and as such I pretty much hate Derek Jeter.
Another stat, is you can add him to the top 100 list in doubles.
Good to see Yankee & Red Sox fans can come to an agreement from time-to-time. Fans who think he's not a hall-of-famer is code for wish he was "my" shortstop for the last 19 seasons.
People often overlook another HOF criteria - how does a player match up to others who played the same position. By that measure the statistics of pretty much all shortstops in the HOF will not look as good as Jeter's.
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Compare him to the era he played in, he's a good player.
Keep the counting stats.
Runs? Really, runs? Worthless stat.
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Compare him to the era he played in, he's a good player.
Keep the counting stats.
Runs? Really, runs? Worthless stat.
Huh? Runs are worthless, except for the part where the team that scores the most runs wins. Here are the all-time leaders in runs scored:
1 - Rickey Henderson
2 - Ty Cobb
3 - Barry Bonds
4 (tie) - Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth
6 - Pete Rose
7 - Willie Mays
8 - Cap Anson
9 - Stan Musial
10 - Derek Jeter
On second though you're right, no correlation betweens runs scored and being a quality player.
He is 20th all-time in offensive WAR, a context neutral stat. In fact he is 4th in his era behind only Barry Bonds and A-Rod (who are steroids guys), and Rickey Henderson
He is first in his era in hits and 2nd to Henderson in runs. He is 7th in batting average among active players, two of whom (Cano and Votto) will very likely end up below him.
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The offensive player has no bearing on the Run stat, it's a situational statistic that shouldn't ever be used to judge a player.
Career WAR is not context neutral as it is a counting stat.
Compare him to his era - Jeter was top ten in WAR twice in 20 years.
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Forget Jeter, as a Sox fan im really going to miss Konerko. For the first time I got to that age where my favorite players that I grew up watching are retiring.
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Good to see Yankee & Red Sox fans can come to an agreement from time-to-time. Fans who think he's not a hall-of-famer is code for wish he was "my" shortstop for the last 19 seasons.
You said this earlier this year, and I think you are way off base here. If anything, Yankee fans have way overvalued him and have become blinded enough that they can't see what the statistics are saying. (And don't give me accumulation stats...that just means they played a long time.)
Now let me say that my team (the Brewers) had its Jeter. Robin Yount. Yount played 20 years for the same team. Yount had a higher career WAR. Jeter was slightly better offensively. Yount was much better defensively. Unlike Jeter, Yount was twice considered the best player in the league. (Playing two completely different defensive positions.) Also unlike Jeter, Yount toiled away on some pretty bad teams and in Milwaukee.
If Robin Yount came to the Yankees when Jeter did, there would have been no difference whatsoever. They are essentially the same player. (Molitor might actually be the better comparison but still...)
Robin Yount was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Jeter should be too. However Robin Yount didn't get this completely undeserved over-the-top retirement treatment that Yount did. Yankee fans have trouble keeping this stuff in context.
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I found this.
Derek Jeter vs. Hall of Fame shortstops
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/derek-jeter-vs-hall-of-fame-shortstops-1.8899728
Updated July 29, 2014 12:49 PM
By PHIL D'ABBRACCIO
Derek Jeter will retire at the end of the 2014 season. How will his career numbers compare with the 23 Hall of Famers who played at least 500 games at shortstop? Using a cumulative ranking of the players' career WAR, batting average, home runs, on-base percentage and stolen bases compared to one another's, here is how they stack up, in true countdown order. (Players were ranked 1-24 based on their stats in each category, then we added up all the rankings.)
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Robin Yount was a first ballot Hall of Famer. Jeter should be too. However Robin Yount didn't get this completely undeserved over-the-top retirement treatment that Yount did. Yankee fans have trouble keeping this stuff in context.
Agree with this point. Ripken got similar treatment, though. The big differences between Jeter and Yount with respect to their farewell seasons are
1. The difference between playing for the Yankees and the Brewers (Yankees with much larger fan base, plus they are hated by people who aren't their fans. So most baseball fans are vested in the Yanks one way or the other. Who really hates the Brewers?)
2. Jeter played in the postseason every friggin' year and generally played quite well (and won a lot early in his career which is the time people form their opinion of players), which exposed him to a much wider audience. Five championships for Jeter vs none for Yount. Now we know that says more about their respective teammates than it says about the players themselves, but America does love a winner.
Also, I wouldn't go overboard with WAR. There are two competing WAR calculations and they can disagree wildly with regards to defense, which is Yount's advantage over Jeter. While I think students of the game basically understand the elements of offense, most experts don't completely trust defensive metrics. They vary wildly from one season to the next, much greater than offensive stats do, while intuitively you would think that a players defensive ability would be more consistent than his offensive ability. To be fair, Jeter is so consistently poorly rated by everybody who attempts to rate defense that it is nearly impossible to figure a way that he was not a poor SS. It can't all be park effects or pitchers tendencies.
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I found this.
Derek Jeter vs. Hall of Fame shortstops
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/derek-jeter-vs-hall-of-fame-shortstops-1.8899728
Updated July 29, 2014 12:49 PM
By PHIL D'ABBRACCIO
Derek Jeter will retire at the end of the 2014 season. How will his career numbers compare with the 23 Hall of Famers who played at least 500 games at shortstop? Using a cumulative ranking of the players' career WAR, batting average, home runs, on-base percentage and stolen bases compared to one another's, here is how they stack up, in true countdown order. (Players were ranked 1-24 based on their stats in each category, then we added up all the rankings.)
LOL.
Of *course* that is what a New York newspaper would do. Make up some sort of metric that makes Jeter look good and rank them accordingly...but make sure that Honus Wagner is ranked first in order to not look like complete homers.
There are two major problems with this. The first, and the most significant, is that the only portion of the metric that touches on defense at all is WAR. The rest are all offensive categories. Second, is that there is an overlap between these categories. Why use batting average AND on-base percentage? Why use home runs but not slugging percentage? And stolen bases? Cmon...
Jeter ranks about 7th all time in WAR for the shortstop position. (That is if you classify Yount as a SS and use his career stats.) That's about right. A sure fire Hall of Famer. BTW, he will be the only SS in the HOF with a negative defensive WAR.
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Random question/thought. Is there anywhere I can go to find out what percentage of an MLB team's runs are scored by the home run? I can't imagine anybody's is higher than the Brewers in Doug Melvin's time as the GM.
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Forget Jeter, as a Sox fan im really going to miss Konerko. For the first time I got to that age where my favorite players that I grew up watching are retiring.
Pretty solid dude as well....on the human being side....at least with my interactions. He's no AJ Pierzynski, that's for sure.
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However, statistics deem him to not be a 'great' player. A good player at best.
He's not a first ballot hall of famer if had the same career in any other city. Hell, he wouldn't have played this long in any other city.
Youngest player to 3000 hits? At a premium defensive position (not saying he was an elite defender, but he stuck in the middle). Just that combo would likely make him a first ballot HOFer. Even if he played for the Royals.
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Forget Jeter, as a Sox fan im really going to miss Konerko. For the first time I got to that age where my favorite players that I grew up watching are retiring.
Yeah, Paulie had a great career and a was a great citizen his entire career. He is just so mild mannered, he isn't really garnering any attention. Just like his career.
I was at game 2 when he hit that Slam. Best moment of my sports fan life. Topping Wade's triple double. It was unreal. Just unreal.
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However, statistics deem him to not be a 'great' player. A good player at best.
He's not a first ballot hall of famer if had the same career in any other city. Hell, he wouldn't have played this long in any other city.
He might not have played shortstop this long in another city. But he was a very good offensive player no less than 2 years ago. Say the Yankees moved him off shortstop five years ago. His bat was good enough to stick, even with a move to second, the corner outfield or DH to help cover his lost ground.
And, just IMHO, anyone who sticks long enough and is talented enough to collect 3,000 hits is almost by definition a first-ballot HOFer.
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And Jeter gets a walkoff hit in his last game at Yankee stadium. Like him or not, you gotta admit the guy has a flare for the dramatic.
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However, statistics deem him to not be a 'great' player. A good player at best.
He's not a first ballot hall of famer if had the same career in any other city. Hell, he wouldn't have played this long in any other city.
Seriously. Wow. At least you're being objective.
Haters gonna hate!
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Jeter will get into the HOF on the First Ballot. Bank it.
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And Jeter gets a walkoff hit in his last game at Yankee stadium. Like him or not, you gotta admit the guy has a flare for the dramatic.
Hollywood could not have scripted that any better.
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The Commissioner's office Hollywood could not have scripted that any better.
fixed
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Brewers organization really taking Braun's fake thumb injury rouse to the extreme, by scheduling surgery for this week.
http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue (http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue)
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Brewers organization really taking Braun's fake thumb injury rouse to the extreme, by scheduling surgery for this week.
http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue (http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue)
Yeah it's just weird that, you know, this thumb injury has been happening for years and he was suspended for the 2nd half of the season last year, plus had the offseason after that, and didn't choose to have surgery. It's really weird.
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Brewers organization really taking Braun's fake thumb injury rouse to the extreme, by scheduling surgery for this week.
http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue (http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/96804688/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-optimistic-procedure-will-fix-thumb-issue)
But hey, I'm glad this is going to fix him. I can't wait to see him back at .323, 41 homers, 120 RBIs again next year! You want to put a friendly on this one? Over, .305, 30+ homers, 105+ RBIs I owe you something (donation to a charity of your choice?), under .290, under 25 homers, under 95 RBIs you owe me something? I mean, it's the thumb that's causing his numbers to go from .320, 40, 120 down to .270, 20, 100, right? And that's going to be fixed, so he'll be back!
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Yeah it's just weird that, you know, this thumb injury has been happening for years and he was suspended for the 2nd half of the season last year, plus had the offseason after that, and didn't choose to have surgery. It's really weird.
No actually, if you paid any attention to the numerous comments said and written by Doug Melvin, Gord Ash, Ron roenicke, the brewers beat writers, etc., it isn't weird at all. Of course those comments don't don't fit your conspiratorial narrative, so my guess is that you've willingly ignored them.
I mean why bother reading the explanation provided, when its so much more fun to just make up your own...
It has prevented him from properly gripping the bat, but Braun did not schedule a fix until now because of the rare nature of the injury and uncertainty surrounding surgical options.
"It's far less invasive than what the other options were [because] we're not removing the nerve," Braun said. "I'm optimistic. We've obviously tried rest, we've tried to use all types of different technology, we've tried everything we have here to treat it in as many ways as you could possibly imagine, with very little success. So I'm very optimistic and I think the trainers are very optimistic."
BTW, this has been consistently reported from Spring Training, on.
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No actually, if you paid any attention to the numerous comments said and written by Doug Melvin, Gord Ash, Ron roenicke, the brewers beat writers, etc., it isn't weird at all. Of course those comments don't don't fit your conspiratorial narrative, so my guess is that you've willingly ignored them.
So why not have the surgery when he had more time, being suspended for the 2nd half of last season? I guess that's not weird to you? Having his .320, 40, 120 bat in the lineup vs. his .273, 21, 100 bat in the lineup? I guess our offense was so good down the stretch it really wouldn't have made a difference at all? Oh wait...
So again, you want to put a wager on this one? He will be healthy finally, so next year we should all expect .320, 40, 120. Right?
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So why not have the surgery when he had more time, being suspended for the 2nd half of last season? I guess that's not weird to you? Having his .320, 40, 120 bat in the lineup vs. his .273, 21, 100 bat in the lineup? I guess our offense was so good down the stretch it really wouldn't have made a difference at all? Oh wait...
Using that 'logic' why is he having surgery now? Just for fun? Obviously they all know that it's just a fake excuse, but hey, let's go slice your hand open and mess around in there. Hands aren't important for a baseball player anyway. Either it's a fake injury as you have contended all along, and there is no reason for surgery, or it's is a real injury that has affected his hitting, that surgery may or may not help.
So we're clear, for your position to remain consistent, he is having unnecessary surgery to fix a non-existent injury. Is that correct?
Btw, your wager is stupid, for many reasons, and they flat out say (again) that surgery guarantees nothing. In fact the previous recommendation may have done more harm than good, so you really don't understand why they may have chosen to wait? Of course you do, but that doesn't fit your narrative. Your strawman approach is so much more fun, and requires very little thought.
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Using that 'logic' why is he having surgery now? Just for fun? Obviously they all know that it's just a fake excuse, but hey, let's go slice your hand open and mess around in there. Hands aren't important for a baseball player anyway. Either it's a fake injury as you have contended all along, and there is no reason for surgery, or it's is a real injury that has affected his hitting, that surgery may or may not help.
So we're clear, for your position to remain consistent, he is having unnecessary surgery to fix a non-existent injury. Is that correct?
Btw, your wager is stupid, for many reasons, and they flat out say (again) that surgery guarantees nothing. In fact the previous recommendation may have done more harm than good, so you really don't understand why they may have chosen to wait? Of course you do, but that doesn't fit your narrative. Your strawman approach is so much more fun, and requires very little thought.
Your first paragraph and your last paragraph are complete contradictions haha. He wouldn't have a surgery on his hand if it wasn't a real injury because he wouldn't want to mess around with/cut open his hand when it could do more harm than good. Yet you say again that it won't fix the problem, but they're going to cut open his hand and mess around with it anyways.
You also cite an article that has a title (big, at the top of the page for you) that says, "Braun optimistic procedure will fix thumb issue." So what, last offseason it wouldn't have but this year, after the thumb injury apparently worsened, it will? Fair enough, I guess.
Put your money where your mouth is. Braun is optimistic this surgery will fix his thumb issue. With that being the case, since the thumb issue is what has taken his career from sure fire HOFer to average MLB RFer in 1 season, he will be back on the path to sure fire HOFer next season, correct? How is the wager stupid?
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You really need to learn to read...actually nevermind. It is clear that you intentionally misinterpret, misstate, etc. To help support your ridiculous arguments and conspiracy theories. Interesting to see the exact same thing happening over in the NFL thread about Jay Cutler. No longer worth my time.
Since you can't answer, I'll just go ahead and assume that you do in fact believe that Braun is having unnecessary surgery to fix what you claim is a fake/non-existent thumb issue. Makes all the sense in the world.
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Y'all don't think the PED use has directly resulted in the thumb injury, do y'all?
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Y'all don't think the PED use has directly resulted in the thumb injury, do y'all?
What thumb injury? Wades says its all a charade.
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Nah, Braun's thumb is fooked up. But, not to the extent that he butt fooked the Brewers. I wonder if they can recover from the financial beat down he laid on them. Peddle his heine for just about anything a team throws your way, hey?
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You really need to learn to read...actually nevermind. It is clear that you intentionally misinterpret, misstate, etc. To help support your ridiculous arguments and conspiracy theories. Interesting to see the exact same thing happening over in the NFL thread about Jay Cutler. No longer worth my time.
Since you can't answer, I'll just go ahead and assume that you do in fact believe that Braun is having unnecessary surgery to fix what you claim is a fake/non-existent thumb issue. Makes all the sense in the world.
Sure, unnecessary surgery.
Your turn to answer my questions.
If he stinks again next year then the surgery just didn't work?
Has Braun been battling this injury for the past few years, or is it just this year? If it was the past few years, why was he still able to produce and this year he couldn't?
Why are they going to go through with this surgery if it's not going to help him?
I'm just going to accept that you won't take my wager and call it "stupid." Why? I'm not sure. Braun says he's confident it will fix the problem. If it fixes the problem then he'll be back to .320, 40, 120 in no time. But to you, when next season he isn't back to that (lack of PEDs will do that), it's just that the thumb surgery didn't work and his thumb injury is giving him problems, despite him having problems and still putting up numbers before being suspended for PEDs. The timing of it all worsening to the point that it finally causes his numbers to dip is just a big coincidence.
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Nah, Braun's thumb is fooked up. But, not to the extent that he butt fooked the Brewers. I wonder if they can recover from the financial beat down he laid on them. Peddle his heine for just about anything a team throws your way, hey?
Nobody's going to take a $20 million .270 right fielder.
Thankfully there's a surgery Braun willingly chose to not have with an extra half of a season to sit out because he was suspended for PED use (which didn't affect his play at all), so he willingly just let his numbers slip up, but now Braun is confident that this surgery will fix the issue so he'll do the surgery with less time to recover. So we'll be seeing him hitting .320 with 40 homers and 120 RBIs. Not sure why Navin won't accept my bet. It's easy money. The thumb will be fixed and that's the only issue Braun has and the only reason we have seen his numbers dip from can't miss Hall of Famer, one of the best all time, to .270 hitter. Fix the thumb and we have a hall of famer back on our hands.
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Nah, Braun's thumb is fooked up. But, not to the extent that he butt fooked the Brewers. I wonder if they can recover from the financial beat down he laid on them. Peddle his heine for just about anything a team throws your way, hey?
Eh... I think he's untradeable at this point. Injured and expensive with baggage. I personally think that surgery or no surgery, there is a good chance the thumb thing may seriously impact/shorten his career, based on what I've seen (unlike some who want to over simplifying and try to pretend that sports come with guarantees), further worsening the financial impact on the Brewers. They need to seriously hope that surgery works.
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Brewers will win 94 games if Garza stays healthy all year. For every three days he's on the DL, subtract one win.
Help me out here, guys.... I'm looking for someone whose preseason prediction was better than 83-2/3 wins for the Brewers.
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Eh... I think he's untradeable at this point. Injured and expensive with baggage. I personally think that surgery or no surgery, there is a good chance the thumb thing may seriously impact/shorten his career, based on what I've seen (unlike some who want to over simplifying and try to pretend that sports come with guarantees), further worsening the financial impact on the Brewers. They need to seriously hope that surgery works.
I guess I'd maybe believe this if you could find me just one example of a good MLB player whose career was ruined by a thumb injury.
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I guess I'd maybe believe this if you could find me just one example of a good MLB player whose career was ruined by a thumb injury.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's important to note that every injury is different. Who knows, Braun could have had a hammer slip last offseason and injured his thumb then.
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LOL.
Of *course* that is what a New York newspaper would do. Make up some sort of metric that makes Jeter look good and rank them accordingly...but make sure that Honus Wagner is ranked first in order to not look like complete homers.
There are two major problems with this. The first, and the most significant, is that the only portion of the metric that touches on defense at all is WAR. The rest are all offensive categories. Second, is that there is an overlap between these categories. Why use batting average AND on-base percentage? Why use home runs but not slugging percentage? And stolen bases? Cmon...
Jeter ranks about 7th all time in WAR for the shortstop position. (That is if you classify Yount as a SS and use his career stats.) That's about right. A sure fire Hall of Famer. BTW, he will be the only SS in the HOF with a negative defensive WAR.
Couldn't believe how low Ernie Banks and Ripken were ranked.
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Can't argue with this
http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/derek-jeter-will-go-down-one-best-500-players-all--1072
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I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's important to note that every injury is different. Who knows, Braun could have had a hammer slip last offseason and injured his thumb then.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I wouldn't be surprised if Braun had a thumb injury that affected his performance this season. However ...
When you are a pathological liar who has proven you will say or do anything to protect your image and your agenda, you shouldn't expect to be believed about anything ever again.
Three years ago, if you asked me to describe what Ryan Braun is, I'd have said: "One of the elite ballplayers in the world."
Now: "A lying douchebag."
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Except its not just Braun that is talking about his thumb injury. Its the Brewers organization too.
I mean either he is having surgery to correct a problem that impacts his ability to perform...OR he is having unnecessary surgery.
Now if his thumb is fine next year, and he still puts up numbers similar to this year, then people like Wade's can beat their chest. Otherwise they simply sound a little looney.
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I wouldn't be surprised if Braun had a thumb injury that affected his performance this season. However ...
When you are a pathological liar who has proven you will say or do anything to protect your image and your agenda, you shouldn't expect to be believed about anything ever again.
Three years ago, if you asked me to describe what Ryan Braun is, I'd have said: "One of the elite ballplayers in the world."
Now: "A lying douchebag."
Well put.
Except its not just Braun that is talking about his thumb injury. Its the Brewers organization too.
I mean either he is having surgery to correct a problem that impacts his ability to perform...OR he is having unnecessary surgery.
Now if his thumb is fine next year, and he still puts up numbers similar to this year, then people like Wade's can beat their chest. Otherwise they simply sound a little looney.
That's my point and that's why I'm offering the wager to Navin. He's having this surgery to fix what apparently has been his problem since being forced to no longer use PEDs for the first time in his career/since early in his days at Miami. If it's the thumb that is the problem and not the lack of PED use, then he will be back to a .320, 40 homer, 120 RBI hitter in no time (aka, to start next season). I'm not sure why anybody wouldn't take that bet if there is no chance that PED use inflated his numbers (like I suggest) and now that he is off them his numbers have dropped. It's just a conveniently timed thumb injury that will take him from one of the best players ever (the path he was on) to a below average RF, at the age of 30 years old. Because thumb injuries typically do that to baseball players.
And yes, no professional sports organization would lie to save the face of a "star" player. The Baltimore Ravens certainly wouldn't. The Brewers have no reason to make excuses for the guy whose $20 million/year contract extension is set to kick in after 1 more season following his .270, 20 homer season. What professional sports organization would have a star say, as he struggles throughout the season, "It's my thumb injury, it's really bothering me," and respond with, "Braun has no thumb injury."
If people really think that Braun's thumb is the reason he dropped from .320/40/120 to .270/20/95, then I will put the wager out there for any Scooper (since Navin, for whatever reason, won't take the wager). Braun is now having this surgery (not sure why he wouldn't have had it last year if this thumb injury has been going on for years and he had a half of a season extra to recover since he was suspended, but whatever) that is going to fix the issue he had that caused him to be below average in RF this year. If that's the case, then he should be back on his Hall of Fame path. So I offer the wager. If Braun hits .310+, 30 homers+, and 110 RBI+ (he was easily doing this up until he got caught doing PEDs, but apparently that isn't his problem, it's the thumb issue, which he is apparently having fixed), then I will pay $X to a charity of the Scooper's choice. If he hits below .285/25/110 then the Scooper will pay $X to a charity of my choice. Pick the charity and the price and let's make this wager.
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I have no horse in this race, but a few comments:
1 - Exhaustive studies indicate that players generally peak around age 27. The better the player, the slower the decline, but you can generally expect deterioration of numbers around that point. Braun will be 31 next year, so naturally his numbers would be decreasing anyway. Also, injuries tend to increase the speed of the decline.
2 - Since QuesTec's implementation, the strike zone, particularly the lower region of the strike zone, has undoubtedly gotten bigger. I believe that to be the biggest cause (along with increased use of bullpens and increased velocity of bullpen pitchers) of declining offensive numbers all over baseball.
3- Braun hit 40 homers only once in his career, and averaged 34 HRs during his first 6 seasons. Also, RBI are also a function of men on base in front of him, which is largely out of his control.
4 - Braun could still cheat and not get caught. I think cheating is certainly down, but I also think that most of the cheaters don't get caught.
So rather than focus on batting average, home runs and RBI, your bet should be based on OPS+ (Braun's performance vs. the rest of the league adjusted for environment). Braun, throughout his career has varied OPS+ from 130 (2008) to 166 (his age 27 season). He's at 143 for his career. You should agree on an OPS+ number (I'd suggest around 130) and base your bet on that.
Besides, based on your original proposition, who wins if Braun hit .265/35/115?
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I have no horse in this race, but a few comments:
1 - Exhaustive studies indicate that players generally peak around age 27. The better the player, the slower the decline, but you can generally expect deterioration of numbers around that point. Braun will be 31 next year, so naturally his numbers would be decreasing anyway. Also, injuries tend to increase the speed of the decline.
2 - Since QuesTec's implementation, the strike zone, particularly the lower region of the strike zone, has undoubtedly gotten bigger. I believe that to be the biggest cause (along with increased use of bullpens and increased velocity of bullpen pitchers) of declining offensive numbers all over baseball.
3- Braun hit 40 homers only once in his career, and averaged 34 HRs during his first 6 seasons. Also, RBI are also a function of men on base in front of him, which is largely out of his control.
4 - Braun could still cheat and not get caught. I think cheating is certainly down, but I also think that most of the cheaters don't get caught.
So rather than focus on batting average, home runs and RBI, your bet should be based on OPS+ (Braun's performance vs. the rest of the league adjusted for environment). Braun, throughout his career has varied OPS+ from 130 (2008) to 166 (his age 27 season). He's at 143 for his career. You should agree on an OPS+ number (I'd suggest around 130) and base your bet on that.
Besides, based on your original proposition, who wins if Braun hit .265/35/115?
1) Fair enough. I cannot argue with that. If a guy of Braun's caliber can go from the numbers he had in 2011 and 2012 to the numbers he had in 2014 because of age and a thumb injury then so be it.
2) Braun has been playing with the strike zone his whole career. When you are talking about overall offensive numbers in baseball this argument might make some sense. When you are talking about an individual player who has proven he can put up big numbers with this strike zone it doesn't have anything to do with the argument. There hasn't been some drastic change to how baseball is played during Braun's career. The strike zone may have been smaller for Babe Ruth than it is for Ryan Braun and given Ruth an advantage, but Braun has proven he can put up big numbers with the strike zone Braun sees. It didn't go from a small strike zone to a giant strike zone or shift from high to low within Braun's career.
3) That's why I set it at 30 homers. Well below what he averaged through the 2012 season. Braun averaged 34 in his first 6 seasons, but that includes his first season in which he wasn't even in the MLB to start the year. He hit 34 that year in 113 games. If he were in the majors the entire season and hit at that pace (no reason to think he wouldn't have) all year, that's another 40 homer season and increases his average to over 35 up through the 2012 season. He only hit below 30 in 1 of his first 6 seasons. Considering that, I think 30 is fairly generous. He hit 19 this year.
4) Braun cannot cheat again because he is facing a lifetime ban if he is caught again. I know the guy is incredibly unintelligent (anybody who comes out and gives the press conference he did after getting caught originally cannot be smart), but even he is smart enough to understand that risking $20 million/year just to increase his numbers again isn't worth it. He's getting paid whether he hits .320 and 40 or .270 and 20.
Fair enough on the wager. BA/HR/RBI, OPS, Slugging, OPS+. I don't care. Braun is not nearly as good of a baseball player when he is not on PEDs as he was when he was on PEDs. Some here seem to think it's this thumb injury that conveniently popped up when he stopped using PEDs. Well, the thumb is being fixed, so we should see similar production from him again (and I took into account a decline for age, hence the 30 homers instead of 35, etc.).
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Ellenson's World, I don't think you're wrong, because I don't know. I have no idea the extent of help PEDs gave Braun. PEDs certainly help or people wouldn't risk bans to take them. Just offering my two cents to make the bet fair.
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Ellenson's World, I don't think you're wrong, because I don't know. I have no idea the extent of help PEDs gave Braun. PEDs certainly help or people wouldn't risk bans to take them. Just offering my two cents to make the bet fair.
That is fair. I'm up for whatever statistic that somebody finds to prove whether or not Braun's production returns to what it was or not. Just waiting for someone who defends Braun to put their money down on this.
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2) Braun has been playing with the strike zone his whole career. When you are talking about overall offensive numbers in baseball this argument might make some sense. When you are talking about an individual player who has proven he can put up big numbers with this strike zone it doesn't have anything to do with the argument. There hasn't been some drastic change to how baseball is played during Braun's career. The strike zone may have been smaller for Babe Ruth than it is for Ryan Braun and given Ruth an advantage, but Braun has proven he can put up big numbers with the strike zone Braun sees. It didn't go from a small strike zone to a giant strike zone or shift from high to low within Braun's career.
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/the-impact-of-the-evolving-strike-zone-090914
The definition of the strike zone itself has not changed, but there is plenty of data out there to support that umpires' "interpretation" of the strike zone has changed, with one study indicating that overall, the strike zone has increased around the knees by 30 sq-in since 2010.
Incidentally, if you look at his hitting zones, his numbers on pitches at the knees have deteriorated more than any other zone over the past few seasons... in 2012, Braun he hit over .370 on strikes at the knees, this year, he hit .294 on strikes at the knees. So the argument that a decline in Braun's numbers have been impacted by an evolving strike zone has some plausibility; however, by no means is it conclusive.
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/the-impact-of-the-evolving-strike-zone-090914
The definition of the strike zone itself has not changed, but there is plenty of data out there to support that umpires' "interpretation" of the strike zone has changed, with one study indicating that overall, the strike zone has increased around the knees by 30 sq-in since 2010.
Incidentally, if you look at his hitting zones, his numbers on pitches at the knees have deteriorated more than any other zone over the past few seasons... in 2012, Braun he hit over .370 on strikes at the knees, this year, he hit .294 on strikes at the knees. So the argument that a decline in Braun's numbers have been impacted by an evolving strike zone has some plausibility; however, by no means is it conclusive.
Interesting. I stand corrected.
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/the-impact-of-the-evolving-strike-zone-090914
The definition of the strike zone itself has not changed, but there is plenty of data out there to support that umpires' "interpretation" of the strike zone has changed, with one study indicating that overall, the strike zone has increased around the knees by 30 sq-in since 2010.
Incidentally, if you look at his hitting zones, his numbers on pitches at the knees have deteriorated more than any other zone over the past few seasons... in 2012, Braun he hit over .370 on strikes at the knees, this year, he hit .294 on strikes at the knees. So the argument that a decline in Braun's numbers have been impacted by an evolving strike zone has some plausibility; however, by no means is it conclusive.
Thanks, this is what I was referring to.
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That was a great game last night. I'm a big Lester fan and was hoping the A's would win, but when it mattered they couldn't keep the Royals off base or stop the running game once they got there. Don't see the Royals challenging the Angels much, but you never know.
I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
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I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
Because Yost is horrible.
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/the-impact-of-the-evolving-strike-zone-090914
The definition of the strike zone itself has not changed, but there is plenty of data out there to support that umpires' "interpretation" of the strike zone has changed, with one study indicating that overall, the strike zone has increased around the knees by 30 sq-in since 2010.
Incidentally, if you look at his hitting zones, his numbers on pitches at the knees have deteriorated more than any other zone over the past few seasons... in 2012, Braun he hit over .370 on strikes at the knees, this year, he hit .294 on strikes at the knees. So the argument that a decline in Braun's numbers have been impacted by an evolving strike zone has some plausibility; however, by no means is it conclusive.
Saw an interesting stat on the distance traveled on balls that Braun hit in the air to all fields.
On fly balls to left field, the average decreased around 23 feet from the average two years ago. PEDs or thumb? Maybe we will find out next year.
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That was a great game last night. I'm a big Lester fan and was hoping the A's would win, but when it mattered they couldn't keep the Royals off base or stop the running game once they got there. Don't see the Royals challenging the Angels much, but you never know.
I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
Host is horrible. Why change how you coached the rest of the year for one game?
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Host is horrible. Why change how you coached the rest of the year for one game?
This specific move wasn't the right move, but just about every manager in baseball would change how they've coached a team in the Wild Card game. A standard regular season game, 1 of 162 games in a season, is much, much difference than a 1 game, do-or-die situation. You're willing to risk a loss in any old game. You're not willing to risk a loss in the Wild Card game. You pull out all the stops in a Wild Card game vs. a July game even if it's against your biggest Divisional rival.
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That was a great game last night. I'm a big Lester fan and was hoping the A's would win, but when it mattered they couldn't keep the Royals off base or stop the running game once they got there. Don't see the Royals challenging the Angels much, but you never know.
I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
I wanted the A's to win since my Halos got the winner. Very worried about the Royals. I'll be there tomorrow and Friday cheering on the red.
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This specific move wasn't the right move, but just about every manager in baseball would change how they've coached a team in the Wild Card game. A standard regular season game, 1 of 162 games in a season, is much, much difference than a 1 game, do-or-die situation. You're willing to risk a loss in any old game. You're not willing to risk a loss in the Wild Card game. You pull out all the stops in a Wild Card game vs. a July game even if it's against your biggest Divisional rival.
My mistake. I made a general statement and should have been more specific. Maybe I just assumed everyone knew how horrible Yost was with pitching moves from his time in Milwaukee.
My reference was strictly about the pitching moves he made.
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Hey, anyone know who KC's first base coach is?
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That was a great game last night. I'm a big Lester fan and was hoping the A's would win, but when it mattered they couldn't keep the Royals off base or stop the running game once they got there. Don't see the Royals challenging the Angels much, but you never know.
I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
Ironic that Billy B's team lost in large part as a result of steals (7!) and sacrifice bunts (at least 2 that I saw in the late innings) he so eschews.
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Ironic that Billy B's team lost in large part as a result of steals (7!) and sacrifice bunts (at least 2 that I saw in the late innings) he so eschews.
Hard to argue with what worked, but I think the way the Royals were stealing bases at will, the sacrifice bunts were probably not a good idea. The Royals successfully sacrifice bunted 4 times, but only 1 led to a run. That was when Dyson was sacrificed to second. He then stole thrird and scored on a sac fly. You could make the argument he should have stole second and saved the out.
You're odds of scoring a run with a runner on first and no outs is greater than your odds of scoring a run with a runner on second and one out. That's why Beane eschews the sac bunt. A successful sac bunt slightly decreases the likelihood you'll score one run and greatly decreases the likelihood you'll score more than one run. so it is not the percentage play. It still has it's place, basically when the hitter is very double-play prone or is just plain dreadful (like a pitcher).
I think the metrics-driven thought process on SBs will change if the general offensive decline in baseball continues. Risking the out on SBs is a bad idea when you've got extra bases hitters up and down the lineup, but with recent slide in hitting getting a base without giving up an out will be a more attractive option.
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I'll never understand what these guys are thinking. How could Yost bring in a guy with 1 career relief appearance who had thrown 73 pitches on Sunday to protect a one run lead with two on and no out with the best trio of relievers in baseball available?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... maybe because he wanted to save his relievers for an extra inning game? Duh.
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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... maybe because he wanted to save his relievers for an extra inning game? Duh.
So you would pitch the worn out guy in the sixth inning instead of pitching your bullpen guys an inning early in case of hypothetical extra innings?
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Hard to argue with what worked, but I think the way the Royals were stealing bases at will, the sacrifice bunts were probably not a good idea. The Royals successfully sacrifice bunted 4 times, but only 1 led to a run. That was when Dyson was sacrificed to second. He then stole thrird and scored on a sac fly. You could make the argument he should have stole second and saved the out.
You're odds of scoring a run with a runner on first and no outs is greater than your odds of scoring a run with a runner on second and one out. That's why Beane eschews the sac bunt. A successful sac bunt slightly decreases the likelihood you'll score one run and greatly decreases the likelihood you'll score more than one run. so it is not the percentage play. It still has it's place, basically when the hitter is very double-play prone or is just plain dreadful (like a pitcher).
I think the metrics-driven thought process on SBs will change if the general offensive decline in baseball continues. Risking the out on SBs is a bad idea when you've got extra bases hitters up and down the lineup, but with recent slide in hitting getting a base without giving up an out will be a more attractive option.
Totally agree with this. KC giving up outs for a base made little sense. When you add the fact that the base could have been pretty much stolen at will anyway it made no sense.
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So you would pitch the worn out guy in the sixth inning instead of pitching your bullpen guys an inning early in case of hypothetical extra innings?
At least use one of your ace relievers to escape the jam and save the tired starter for a fresh inning or extra innings.
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Totally agree with this. KC giving up outs for a base made little sense. When you add the fact that the base could have been pretty much stolen at will anyway it made no sense.
It's like "Yeah, well it's Ned Yost" is the answer to half of the posts here
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So you would pitch the worn out guy in the sixth inning instead of pitching your bullpen guys an inning early in case of hypothetical extra innings?
What hypothetical? Look at the box score.... the game didn't hypothetically go into extra innings, it did go into extra innings.
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It's like "Yeah, well it's Ned Yost" is the answer to half of the posts here
I think it works every time too!
Glad the Pirates lost, got pretty sick of them througout the season.
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What hypothetical? Look at the box score.... the game didn't hypothetically go into extra innings, it did go into extra innings.
The reason it went to extra innings is because he brought in the wrong guy. And he didn't use any of his three bullpen aces in extra innings, so your point still doesn't make any sense. Forget that if he used his good relievers right away they would almost definitely have won without extras, what about other better options (how about a friggin lefty?) to pitch to Moss. Not to mention he could not possibly know what Ventura would have because he put him in a situation he had never been in before. The guy had just thrown 73 pitches on Sunday! He's not a reliever! It really was an indefensible decision.
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What hypothetical? Look at the box score.... the game didn't hypothetically go into extra innings, it did go into extra innings.
But he didn't know that when he made the pitching change.
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At least use one of your ace relievers to escape the jam and save the tired starter for a fresh inning or extra innings.
Or here's a whacky thought. Actually try to use one of these relievers for more than just an inning!
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BTW, I was reading up on Ryan Braun's thumb and didn't understand the timeline completely. He tested positive in October 2011. He put up real good numbers the next season under increased testing. From a Haurdricort article...
"But, while undergoing increased drug testing in 2012 without a positive result, he arguably had a better season than the year before, batting .319 with 41 home runs, 112 RBI, 108 runs scored, 30 stolen bases and .987 OPS."
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Anybody defending any of Yost's decisions should read this: http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-playoffs-kansas-city-royals-oakland-athletics-american-league-wild-card-classic/ (http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-playoffs-kansas-city-royals-oakland-athletics-american-league-wild-card-classic/).
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But he didn't know that when he made the pitching change.
But he did. He's Ned Yost. That's the whole point.
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BTW, I was reading up on Ryan Braun's thumb and didn't understand the timeline completely. He tested positive in October 2011. He put up real good numbers the next season under increased testing. From a Haurdricort article...
"But, while undergoing increased drug testing in 2012 without a positive result, he arguably had a better season than the year before, batting .319 with 41 home runs, 112 RBI, 108 runs scored, 30 stolen bases and .987 OPS."
That doesn't fit the anti-Braun narrative, so why would we even care to consider it? Keep your damn facts to yourself, and let us continue the speculation over here.
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That doesn't fit the anti-Braun narrative, so why would we even care to consider it? Keep your damn facts to yourself, and let us continue the speculation over here.
It's called staying on a cycle. Something he should've done through the Playoffs in 2011 and he never would've gotten caught (well, until Bosh got squeezed into squealing). Tons and tons and tons of players take PEDs, they just stay smart about it, remain on a cycle, and remain below the "legal" limit while still taking them and gaining a competitive advantage. That's what Braun had done his entire career. Then he decided, "It's the Playoffs, I can go wild with these, go off in the Playoffs, become a legend, and they aren't going to test me now." All of a sudden he's taking tons of his gummies and off his cycle and what do you know, 3 players are randomly chosen to take a drug test during the 2011 Playoff run and Braun is one of them. He was livid in the locker room. Then wahlah, there's a loop in the system and Braun gets off. Lucky for him, he can go back on his cycle and if he is somehow dumb enough to get caught again (it's very hard to do if you aren't an idiot) it's only a first time offense, not a repeat and a lifetime ban. Then Bosh opens his mouth, turns out Braun was using PEDs, and there's his "first" offense. Now he's facing a lifetime ban and can't risk taking PEDs anymore. So his numbers go down. But wait, that's just his thumb.
Talking about facts, since apparently we can't look at his batting/power numbers because his thumb hurts (maybe he should have garden duty...anybody else's fingers hurt?), I suppose the thumb also caused his stolen bases to drop from 30+ in both 2011 and 2012 to 11 this season. Or he's just getting old. You know, 30 years old. No, that can't be it. The manager just doesn't let his team steal bases (hah).
Again, Benny, if you're so sure PEDs didn't help him and this thumb injury is the reason he was a .270 hitter with 19 homers and 11 stolen bases last year, then why will you not make a little friendly/fun wager here? He's having this surgery and is confident it will fix the thumb issue. Surely he can hit 30 homers and .300 next year, numbers he never hit under up until his shortened 2013 season. No? Easy win for you, like stealing candy from a baby. But you won't do it. Why?
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It's called staying on a cycle. Something he should've done through the Playoffs in 2011 and he never would've gotten caught (well, until Bosh got squeezed into squealing). Tons and tons and tons of players take PEDs, they just stay smart about it, remain on a cycle, and remain below the "legal" limit while still taking them and gaining a competitive advantage. That's what Braun had done his entire career. Then he decided, "It's the Playoffs, I can go wild with these, go off in the Playoffs, become a legend, and they aren't going to test me now." All of a sudden he's taking tons of his gummies and off his cycle and what do you know, 3 players are randomly chosen to take a drug test during the 2011 Playoff run and Braun is one of them. He was livid in the locker room. Then wahlah, there's a loop in the system and Braun gets off. Lucky for him, he can go back on his cycle and if he is somehow dumb enough to get caught again (it's very hard to do if you aren't an idiot) it's only a first time offense, not a repeat and a lifetime ban. Then Bosh opens his mouth, turns out Braun was using PEDs, and there's his "first" offense. Now he's facing a lifetime ban and can't risk taking PEDs anymore. So his numbers go down. But wait, that's just his thumb.
Talking about facts, since apparently we can't look at his batting/power numbers because his thumb hurts (maybe he should have garden duty...anybody else's fingers hurt?), I suppose the thumb also caused his stolen bases to drop from 30+ in both 2011 and 2012 to 11 this season. Or he's just getting old. You know, 30 years old. No, that can't be it. The manager just doesn't let his team steal bases (hah).
The irony of using your first paragraph to completely make up a scenario, but then start the next paragraph with "talking about facts," is very amusing.
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The irony of using your first paragraph to completely make up a scenario, but then start the next paragraph with "talking about facts," is very amusing.
...except that's exactly what happened. He was on a cycle using gummies. It came to Playoff time and he figured nobody was going to get tested, so he went wild with his gummies, the tester came into the clubhouse after one of the games and he was absolutely livid.
Have known this for quite some time. Which is why it came as absolutely no surprise that when Bosh finally allowed a public interview he discussed exactly how these players stay on their cycle and how gummies are the most commonly used form.
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...except that's exactly what happened. He was on a cycle using gummies. It came to Playoff time and he figured nobody was going to get tested, so he went wild with his gummies, the tester came into the clubhouse after one of the games and he was absolutely livid.
But the next year?
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But the next year?
Read my long post.
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Right....a made up scenario.
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Right....a made up scenario.
Except it's not.
Again, you, Benny, anybody else who wants to back Braun. Put your money where your mouth is and take me up on my wager. You think the thumb injury is what has caused him to go from a .320 career hitter averaging well over 30 homers a year and nearly 30 stolen bases per game a year to .270, 19, and 11. I think it's the lack of PED use. His thumb injury will be fixed. So that means if he's back in MVP/Hall of Fame shape like he was through 2012 (or even just an above average right fielder, for that matter) then clearly I'm wrong. If he continues to be a .270ish hitter who struggles to hit the ball out of the park then you're wrong. If it's in the grey area in between then maybe it was some of both. You guys are so confident, you can't lose this wager, might as well make me pay to a cause of your choice.
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Again, Benny, if you're so sure PEDs didn't help him and this thumb injury is the reason he was a .270 hitter with 19 homers and 11 stolen bases last year, then why will you not make a little friendly/fun wager here? He's having this surgery and is confident it will fix the thumb issue. Surely he can hit 30 homers and .300 next year, numbers he never hit under up until his shortened 2013 season. No? Easy win for you, like stealing candy from a baby. But you won't do it. Why?
Because a) I don't disagree with the sentiment that Braun's career performance has generally begun its decline, b) I don't think Braun will stay healthy for an entire season to ever have a chance to hit 30 HRs, and c) I think there's a third factor (beyond PEDs and his thumb) that hasn't been (or isn't being) disclosed that's playing a material role in Braun's aforementioned decline [intercostal].
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Except it's not.
Again, you, Benny, anybody else who wants to back Braun. Put your money where your mouth is and take me up on my wager. You think the thumb injury is what has caused him to go from a .320 career hitter averaging well over 30 homers a year and nearly 30 stolen bases per game a year to .270, 19, and 11. I think it's the lack of PED use. His thumb injury will be fixed. So that means if he's back in MVP/Hall of Fame shape like he was through 2012 (or even just an above average right fielder, for that matter) then clearly I'm wrong. If he continues to be a .270ish hitter who struggles to hit the ball out of the park then you're wrong. If it's in the grey area in between then maybe it was some of both. You guys are so confident, you can't lose this wager, might as well make me pay to a cause of your choice.
I'm not backing Braun... I'm just pointing out what's wrong with your argument, even if we do happen agree on more than which we disagree.
In other words... nobody comes to Scoop looking to +1 everybody else; that's boring. Irony, or arguing for the sake of arguing, is the very foundation of why Scoop lives on during the off-season.
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I'm not backing Braun... I'm just pointing out what's wrong with your argument, even if we do happen agree on more than which we disagree.
In other words... nobody comes to Scoop looking to +1 everybody else; that's boring. Irony, or arguing for the sake of arguing, is the very foundation of why Scoop lives on during the off-season.
Good points.
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Good points.
Didn't just want to give him the +1
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Cardinals suck.
Go LA.
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Cardinals suck.
Go LA.
Yes.
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Didn't just want to give him the +1
Classic. It's a shame that Titan is missing all this fun.
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Cardinals suck.
Go LA.
That's such a dammed if you do dammed if you don't scenario. Both teams are so unlikable but I have a feeling that I will be cheering for the fighting Puig's since the lady friend is from LA county.
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If this leads holds up, looks like Justin will be celebratin' with Kate tonight. Hope they get the iPhone fully charged, aina?
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This year's edition of Verlander will not be able to hold the lead.
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I doubt any of us could hold up for long with Kate, aina?
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This year's edition of Verlander will not be able to hold the lead.
Exactly.
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Arms race. Countered Oakland's move. Gave up a young starter and a starting CF. Dombrowski just pushed his chips to the middle of the table.
And it won't matter. With the exception of the starting rotation, Cabrera, V Martinez, and Kinsler, Detroit is below average. No dirtbags. No one I expect to raise their game in the playoffs. Several I expect to do worse in the playoffs. Maybe it will be enough, but in my heart of hearts, I think Mr. I is disappointed yet again.
Bump.
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Cards always find a way, hey?
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Cards always find a way, hey?
Apparently Ned Yost is managing the pitching for the Dodgers too. Over 100 pitches, into the 7th inning, loads the bases, gives up 2 runs. Hell, lets just keep him in there!
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Apparently Ned Yost is managing the pitching for the Dodgers too. Over 100 pitches, into the 7th inning, loads the bases, gives up 2 runs. Hell, lets just keep him in there!
Well, Kershaw has earned a little leeway, but leaving him while giving up 6 hits in the 7th is a little much.
But to me, Mattingly ranks right up there with Gibson and Yost among baseball's great minds.
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Raise your hand if you had KC and Baltimore 1 win away from meeting in the ALCS.
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Raise your hand if you had KC and Baltimore 1 win away from meeting in the ALCS.
Baltimore yes. Royals? Ha.
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Anibal Sanchez to the DL, Verlander left tonight's game with right shoulder soreness. Clubhouse lacks a fiery leader, as it has for the last several years. Move your money to KC.
Ahem.
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Ahem.
I meant more long term but even if we just talk before game 1 of the ALDS it'd still be impressive if someone predicted those 2.
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I thought in August that KC was better than my beloved Tigers. IMO, if this hadn't been their first rodeo, they win the division. KC has a better bullpen, better team speed, better defense, and more heart. That is why in August, I advocated moving your money to KC.
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Raise your hand if you had KC and Baltimore 1 win away from meeting in the ALCS.
I told you the other day how dangerous the Royals are. That's why I wanted the A's.
We had the privilege to sit last night in front of the Royals wives....my wife and Jay Frasor's wife are practically exchanging Christmas cards a good two hours of talking...my wife literally buying the Frasor kids ice cream and goofing with the little ones for Much of the game, trying to give mom a break to watch her team and then her husband pitch...very nice family. Actually the whole Royals group we were with were great, very enjoyable people. After the game I just shook their hand and said if we don't pull it out I hope you go all the way, you remind me of the 2002 Angels.
In front of me were the Angels team surgeons and a few of them have been with the team when I was there. They felt the same way, this Royals team is a lot like the Angels of that year. Fearless, team speed, great defense, timely power. Hard not too root for them.
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And it won't matter. With the exception of the starting rotation, Cabrera, V Martinez, and Kinsler, Detroit is below average. No dirtbags. No one I expect to raise their game in the playoffs. Several I expect to do worse in the playoffs. Maybe it will be enough, but in my heart of hearts, I think Mr. I is disappointed yet again.
Bump again. My love affair with the Tigers goes back over 40 years. This year, I am saddened, I am disappointed, but I am not surprised. A bad mash up of talent. A new coach who was not the hard ass this team needed. The Fister trade was so mind-bogglingly bad that, IMO, it was foreshadowing how weird this season was going to be. Iglesias injury leading to more bad trades, streaky hitting, streaky starting pitching, a lack of production from half the line up, a dumpster fire of a bullpen where not one guy could be counted on throughout the entire season, the revolving door of other team's castoff closers since Nathan was so bad, never picking up a bat to bring off the bench. The team has lacked a dirtbag since their 2006 run. Just another disappointing year.
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Bump again. My love affair with the Tigers goes back over 40 years. This year, I am saddened, I am disappointed, but I am not surprised. A bad mash up of talent. A new coach who was not the hard ass this team needed. The Fister trade was so mind-bogglingly bad that, IMO, it was foreshadowing how weird this season was going to be. Iglesias injury leading to more bad trades, streaky hitting, streaky starting pitching, a lack of production from half the line up, a dumpster fire of a bullpen where not one guy could be counted on throughout the entire season, the revolving door of other team's castoff closers since Nathan was so bad, never picking up a bat to bring off the bench. The team has lacked a dirtbag since their 2006 run. Just another disappointing year.
Feel for you Tower. I liked Baltimore in this series. Stunned by KC over LAA, though. Angels just didn't hit in the first two games. Big guns (Trout, Pujols, Kendrick, Hamilton) 5-50 in the series. That's not going to get it done. Still like Baltimore over KC.
Also surprised Giants are up two on Washington. Zimmerman retires 20 in a row, walks a guy and Williams takes him out. I was surprised at the move, but I don't blame the manager because your closer still should get out of a guy on first and two outs situation. He basically had two good options and it just didn't work out. Sometimes the players have to make plays.
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Feel for you Tower. I liked Baltimore in this series. Stunned by KC over LAA, though. Angels just didn't hit in the first two games. Big guns (Trout, Pujols, Kendrick, Hamilton) 5-50 in the series. That's not going to get it done. Still like Baltimore over KC.
Hamilton is awful. Looks like he has no clue at the plate anymore.
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Underdogs who have won:
4 - KC, KC, Baltimore, SF
Underdogs who lead:
1- SF
Favorites who have won:
0
Favorites who lead:
0
Series that are tied:
1- STL vs LA
Wow. Talk about your crap shoots.
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Underdogs who have won:
4 - KC, KC, Baltimore, SF
Underdogs who lead:
1- SF
Favorites who have won:
0
Favorites who lead:
0
Series that are tied:
1- STL vs LA
Wow. Talk about your crap shoots.
Agree with you on the crap shoot part, but was Detroit really the betting favorite over Baltimore? Baltimore better record, home-field advantage, better/deeper lineup, better bench, starting rotation with better ERA and vastly superior bullpen and defense, not to mention manager. I would have thought Baltimore was a favorite in that series.
I have a general rule when it comes to betting on baseball. The rule is, "Don't bet on baseball."
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Not surprising. I mentioned months ago to you Lenny that having the best record has never meant the best team, especially when injuries down the stretch are masked by that record. Baseball, especially, where you can get the best record because you win your fair share of games with the 4th and 5th starter, who rarely pitch in the playoffs. If you have 3 good starters, and you're hot, key injuries, etc....that's all it takes....especially in baseball where one pitcher can dominate.
I love baseball for that reason, the nuance is terrific. The same team is never on the field one game to the next because the pitching is so different. Unlike any other sport.
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Agree with you on the crap shoot part, but was Detroit really the betting favorite over Baltimore? Baltimore better record, home-field advantage, better/deeper lineup, better bench, starting rotation with better ERA and vastly superior bullpen and defense, not to mention manager. I would have thought Baltimore was a favorite in that series.
I have a general rule when it comes to betting on baseball. The rule is, "Don't bet on baseball."
At the Golden Nugget (only place I checked) Detroit was -1.50, Baltimore +1.30.
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Not surprising. I mentioned months ago to you Lenny that having the best record has never meant the best team, especially when injuries down the stretch are masked by that record. Baseball, especially, where you can get the best record because you win your fair share of games with the 4th and 5th starter, who rarely pitch in the playoffs. If you have 3 good starters, and you're hot, key injuries, etc....that's all it takes....especially in baseball where one pitcher can dominate.
I love baseball for that reason, the nuance is terrific. The same team is never on the field one game to the next because the pitching is so different. Unlike any other sport.
Sounds like you're saying it's one big crapshoot, a competition in which any of the participants can (and do) win. Unlike basketball (NCAA or NBA) where a big chunk of the teams have no realistic chance of winning. Hmmmmm...
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Play nice you two.
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Sounds like you're saying it's one big crapshoot, a competition in which any of the participants can (and do) win. Unlike basketball (NCAA or NBA) where a big chunk of the teams have no realistic chance of winning. Hmmmmm...
Go back over the last few years and see what I've said. NCAA basketball, biggest crapshoot out there. NBA basketball, not a crapshoot at all. You continue to want to make the NCAA tournament not a crapshoot and you continue to be wrong.
You also continue to make the mistake you have always made, which is to assign the "best team" to the one with the best record, which is wildly inaccurate and shown to you many times over. I can't help you on this one.
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Go back over the last few years and see what I've said. NCAA basketball, biggest crapshoot out there. NBA basketball, not a crapshoot at all. You continue to want to make the NCAA tournament not a crapshoot and you continue to be wrong.
You also continue to make the mistake you have always made, which is to assign the "best team" to the one with the best record, which is wildly inaccurate and shown to you many times over. I can't help you on this one.
Are you saying the Angels weren't the best team in baseball throughout the regular season? I would have to completely disagree with you there. The best record in baseball by 2 games in the toughest division in baseball. No question about it, the Angels were the best team in baseball.
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Are you saying the Angels weren't the best team in baseball throughout the regular season? I would have to completely disagree with you there. The best record in baseball by 2 games in the toughest division in baseball. No question about it, the Angels were the best team in baseball.
This Angles team reminds me of the mid-2000 Yankees who had a home run high octane offense that seemed to disappear in the playoffs when they started facing better pitching. The 2014 Angels were way different than early 2000 Angels that were well balanced much like the Yankees of the late 1990s.
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Go back over the last few years and see what I've said. NCAA basketball, biggest crapshoot out there. NBA basketball, not a crapshoot at all. You continue to want to make the NCAA tournament not a crapshoot and you continue to be wrong.
You also continue to make the mistake you have always made, which is to assign the "best team" to the one with the best record, which is wildly inaccurate and shown to you many times over. I can't help you on this one.
1. Again you misrepresent my point. I don't say the NCAAs aren't a crapshoot (to a certain extent, at least). I only dispute your ridiculous and factually inaccurate assertion that they're the biggest crapshoot in all of sports.
2. Misrepresentation #2: I didn't assign the "best team" in the various series based on "best record", I let guys who have forgotten more about baseball and probabilities than you'll ever know determine that. Oakland was the favorite over KC despite having a worse record and having to play on the road. Detroit was the favorite over Baltimore despite having a worse record and having to play 3 of a potential 5 on the road.
Favorites (best teams, for the mathematically challenged) are 0-4 in this years baseball playoff series. In series still being played, they trail 0-2 and are tied 1-1. In all games played, they are 1-11. Find an NCAA tournament that can match that.
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This Angles team reminds me of the mid-2000 Yankees who had a home run high octane offense that seemed to disappear in the playoffs when they started facing better pitching. The 2014 Angels were way different than early 2000 Angels that were well balanced much like the Yankees of the late 1990s.
I can agree with this, but they were still the best team in baseball through 162 regular season games.
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I get what you are saying, but 27 teams would trade their Number 1 starter straight up for Kershaw to start Game 1 of the playoffs. Seattle probably wouldn't and St. Louis might not. His xFIP is 3.69 in the postseason, 3.19 overall in his career.
The Kershaw playoff speedbump continues....and yes, I still agree with you that every team would take him in a heartbeat, but for whatever reason he has struggled in the playoffs. Like many great players, hitters included. Saw an interesting stat the other day about hall of fame players and their playoff numbers, many are really poor.
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If any one pitcher has earned the"benefit of the doubt" designation, it's Kershaw. But, this is on Mattingly. Cat was clearly gassed and pitchin' on 3 days rest. If not Mattingly, then for sure on Crean.
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This Angles team reminds me of the mid-2000 Yankees who had a home run high octane offense that seemed to disappear in the playoffs when they started facing better pitching. The 2014 Angels were way different than early 2000 Angels that were well balanced much like the Yankees of the late 1990s.
As a fan of the team for many many years, I disagree with this. Yes, the Angels has a high octane offense, but if you look at who they did it against this year, it was no slouches. The A's staff, Felix Hernandez, etc, etc. Having gone to games 1 and 2, how different is that series if the Royals don't make those 4 crazy plays in game 1? It's probably a rout for that game. Game 2, again, balls hit hard, great plays. In 3 games, the team hit 4 homeruns, all solo. Problem was they couldn't get timely hits and their big boys suffered tremendously.
I stated here about 5 weeks ago that the loss of 40% of the starting rotation was going to ultimately be their undoing. That being said, the first two starts were terrific, but I'd much rather have had Shoemaker pitch game 3 having a healthy Richards pitch game 1, but that's just the way it goes.
The 2002 Angels finished the post season with a .320 batting average and an OPS of .879. Just hit the cover off the ball every series....it was crazy and I loved every bit of it since I attended all but two of the 9 home games. In the regular season that year, Anaheim was #4 in baseball for offense, which I would classify as high octane. So much of it is matchups, etc. I would have loved to have played the A's and not the Royals, especially with the A's bullpen. It is what it is.
On to next year, the sun came up...it always does.
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I can agree with this, but they were still the best team in baseball through 162 regular season games.
I would say we were the best team in baseball through about 135 games. When Richards went down, Shoemaker went down, we were not nearly as good. Hamilton, as mediocre as he is, at least was a .270ish hitter until he missed the last month of the season. Those are big coggs. Even with them, it's hard to say best team simply because of best record. The best team in a 162 game season often takes advantage of those wins you get with the #4 and #5 starters, and those guys usually don't pitch in the playoffs. So if you're a top 10ish team but 3 stud starters and get to the playoffs, you might be better playoff team than one with 5 very good starters (but not studs) that get you more regular season wins over the longhaul, but not in short series. IMO
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The Kershaw playoff speedbump continues....and yes, I still agree with you that every team would take him in a heartbeat, but for whatever reason he has struggled in the playoffs. Like many great players, hitters included. Saw an interesting stat the other day about hall of fame players and their playoff numbers, many are really poor.
And your MVP hit a whopping .083. If you want to throw the bum under the bus every team will take him too.
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I would say we were the best team in baseball through about 135 games. When Richards went down, Shoemaker went down, we were not nearly as good. Hamilton, as mediocre as he is, at least was a .270ish hitter until he missed the last month of the season. Those are big coggs. Even with them, it's hard to say best team simply because of best record. The best team in a 162 game season often takes advantage of those wins you get with the #4 and #5 starters, and those guys usually don't pitch in the playoffs. So if you're a top 10ish team but 3 stud starters and get to the playoffs, you might be better playoff team than one with 5 very good starters (but not studs) that get you more regular season wins over the longhaul, but not in short series. IMO
Can't disagree with any of this.
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And your MVP hit a whopping .083. If you want to throw the bum under the bus every team will take him too.
Apparently you didn't read my whole post.....not surprised
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Apparently you didn't read my whole post.....not surprised
This isn't the first time you've gone after Kershaw for his postseason failures. Just giving Trout equal time.
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Underdogs who have won:
4 - KC, KC, Baltimore, SF
Underdogs who lead:
1- SF
Favorites who have won:
0
Favorites who lead:
0
Series that are tied:
1- STL vs LA
Wow. Talk about your crap shoots.
Update:
Underdogs who have won: 6
Favorites who have won: 0
Series underdogs win 14 games, favorites 2.
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Update:
Underdogs who have won: 6
Favorites who have won: 0
Series underdogs win 14 games, favorites 2.
I take exception with your considering Baltimore the dog in that series.
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I take exception with your considering Baltimore the dog in that series.
Exception noted. However, the Vegas line was Detroit -150, Baltimore +130. So Detroit was the favorite.
Yours is not an uncommon error. Sportswriters/sportscasters routinely and lazily report games as "upsets" that are nothing of the kind. When the #4 ranked team is a 3 point favorite at home vs the #2 ranked team it's not an "upset" when #4 wins.
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Exception noted. However, the Vegas line was Detroit -150, Baltimore +130. So Detroit was the favorite.
Yours is not an uncommon error. Sportswriters/sportscasters routinely and lazily report games as "upsets" that are nothing of the kind. When the #4 ranked team is a 3 point favorite at home vs the #2 ranked team it's not an "upset" when #4 wins.
While you are correct, except Vegas sets the betting line based on how they perceive the betting to go, not on who experts thinks will win. With names Scherzer/Verlander/Price pitching for Detroit, they figured betting would lean toward Detroit. By predictor metrics Baltimore was the better team and should have been the favorite, mostly because Verlander and Price aren't the Cy Young versions of themselves anymore. It takes the betting public a while to catch up. You saw it in the Baumgarner/Fister matchup in game 3 of the NLDS. Fister is every bit the pitcher that Baumgarner is but perception was that Giants had a big advantage on the mound for that game.
But again, I agree with your larger point that the baseball playoffs are more unpredictable than a college basketball tournament. Nobody would have predicted KC sweep over LAA, and the lesser team won both NLDS series.
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I would say we were the best team in baseball through about 135 games. When Richards went down, Shoemaker went down, we were not nearly as good. Hamilton, as mediocre as he is, at least was a .270ish hitter until he missed the last month of the season. Those are big coggs. Even with them, it's hard to say best team simply because of best record. The best team in a 162 game season often takes advantage of those wins you get with the #4 and #5 starters, and those guys usually don't pitch in the playoffs. So if you're a top 10ish team but 3 stud starters and get to the playoffs, you might be better playoff team than one with 5 very good starters (but not studs) that get you more regular season wins over the longhaul, but not in short series. IMO
I think you're probably right, but they went 16-11 over those last 27 games, which was their expected record to keep pace with the first 135 games. They kept gaining ground on stumbling Seattle and Oakland over that time and never relinquished the best record in the Al mantle, so unless you were paying very close attention you probably didn't notice that the chinks in the armor were starting to show. I sure tended to just think of them as the best team in the AL, even knowing that Richards went down.
At least for me, the bottom line is that while KC's bullpen is tremendous for innings 7-9, its starters and middle relief are merely good and the Angels didn't make hay against them like I thought they would.
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Apparently you didn't read my whole post.....not surprised
It may be more that the Cardinals have his number. He has the higher ERA against the Cards than any other NL team, and a higher WHIP than against any other NL team.
Also hard to fault him for yesterday. He threw 6 innings masterfully on 3 days rest. The 7th got him. But that was still a useful outing in most cases.
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Ryan Braun has been cleared to swing a baseball bat less than a week after having surgery. So let me get this straight, the recovery time is what, absolute worst case a month? He couldn't have had this surgery at the All Star Break after completely sucking for the previous 2 months? Talk about a phony.
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It may be more that the Cardinals have his number. He has the higher ERA against the Cards than any other NL team, and a higher WHIP than against any other NL team.
Also hard to fault him for yesterday. He threw 6 innings masterfully on 3 days rest. The 7th got him. But that was still a useful outing in most cases.
I was happy....another year for the Doyers and another 1988 clap clap.
Yes, I would take him in a second, he's a stud. He pitched well yesterday, but whether it's the Cardinals or the pressure or something, he's had a tough go in the playoffs as have many greats as I alluded to earlier. Some amazing numbers for some of the greats in the playoffs. Some also started out very slow (i.e. Manny Ramirez), but then in the back half of their career went insane...so they figure it out. Baseball is a cruel game, but also what makes it so great. It gives you Jim Leyritz moments from an otherwise obscure player. David Eckstein, one of my favorite players of all time...MVP of the WS. Rick Dempsey. Etc.
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I think you're probably right, but they went 16-11 over those last 27 games, which was their expected record to keep pace with the first 135 games. They kept gaining ground on stumbling Seattle and Oakland over that time and never relinquished the best record in the Al mantle, so unless you were paying very close attention you probably didn't notice that the chinks in the armor were starting to show. I sure tended to just think of them as the best team in the AL, even knowing that Richards went down.
At least for me, the bottom line is that while KC's bullpen is tremendous for innings 7-9, its starters and middle relief are merely good and the Angels didn't make hay against them like I thought they would.
Game one, hit some good balls, they made 4 great plays. Shows up in the boxscore as an out, but a ton of runs left on the bases there. Is what it is. Baseball is a great game.
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I was happy....another year for the Doyers and another 1988 clap clap.
Yeaaaa, the only problem with it is that the lady friend has been none to happy...
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/matt-williams-nationals-manager-nlds-game4-bullpen-100814
Excellent article about Matt Williams' terrible managing in a game with the season on the line.
I think the same could be written about Mattingly. Letting Uribe and A.J.Ellis bat in the 9th inning of the most important game of the year with the game on the line? Leaving Puig on the bench? With the season on the line? And knowing that Ellis is the unquestioned worst hitting starting catcher in either league?
He benched Puig while leaving Gordon, Gonzalez and Uribe in the lineup despite the fact they were all hitting around 100 points less than Puig.
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http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/story/matt-williams-nationals-manager-nlds-game4-bullpen-100814
Excellent article about Matt Williams' terrible managing in a game with the season on the line.
I think the same could be written about Mattingly. Letting Uribe and A.J.Ellis bat in the 9th inning of the most important game of the year with the game on the line? Leaving Puig on the bench? With the season on the line? And knowing that Ellis is the unquestioned worst hitting starting catcher in either league?
He benched Puig while leaving Gordon, Gonzalez and Uribe in the lineup despite the fact they were all hitting around 100 points less than Puig.
As a Dodger fan, I have no problem with Ellis getting an AB in the postseason. 7/13 with 4 BB and 1 K. Yes please. Ellis, was a machine in the playoffs.
The decision to run Puig, who is fast but an awful base runner, and who supposedly was benched with a bad ankle made no sense.
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Ryan Braun has been cleared to swing a baseball bat less than a week after having surgery. So let me get this straight, the recovery time is what, absolute worst case a month? He couldn't have had this surgery at the All Star Break after completely sucking for the previous 2 months? Talk about a phony.
Out of curiosity... is there a distinction between "cleared to swing a bat" and "cleared to hit a ball" or are both synonymous?
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Out of curiosity... is there a distinction between "cleared to swing a bat" and "cleared to hit a ball" or are both synonymous?
Yeah that's why I gave a rough timeline of a month that he might've been out of game play, because obviously just swinging a bat is much different than hitting a 95 mph pitch. But if he's cleared to swing a bat less than a month after the surgery then I'm assuming the total recovery time couldn't be overly long. Maybe I'm wrong there.
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Yeah that's why I gave a rough timeline of a month that he might've been out of game play, because obviously just swinging a bat is much different than hitting a 95 mph pitch. But if he's cleared to swing a bat less than a month after the surgery then I'm assuming the total recovery time couldn't be overly long. Maybe I'm wrong there.
Either way... that would certainly lend credence to my suspicion that he's got lingering issues with, and potentially permanent damage now to his intercostals (IMO is why he was on the stuff to begin with), which has to be raising the reddest shade of red flags by now.
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Hilarious.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/10/9/6944445/mlb-2014-nlcs-playoffs-cardinals-bad-writing
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I was happy....another year for the Doyers and another 1988 clap clap.
Yes, I would take him in a second, he's a stud. He pitched well yesterday, but whether it's the Cardinals or the pressure or something, he's had a tough go in the playoffs as have many greats as I alluded to earlier. Some amazing numbers for some of the greats in the playoffs. Some also started out very slow (i.e. Manny Ramirez), but then in the back half of their career went insane...so they figure it out. Baseball is a cruel game, but also what makes it so great. It gives you Jim Leyritz moments from an otherwise obscure player. David Eckstein, one of my favorite players of all time...MVP of the WS. Rick Dempsey. Etc.
Kershaw in the playoffs last year:
vs. ATL
7 IP, 3H, 3 BB, 12K, 1 ER
6 IP, 3H, 1 BB, 6K, 0 ER
vs STL
6 IP, 2H, 1 BB, 5K, 0 ER
Then he had the clunker
4 IP, 10H, 2 BB, 5K, 7 ER
That is one tough game. Hard to say a tough go in the playoffs. And for this year it was so odd. I can't recall seeing a guy go from so dominant, as he was through 6 IP in both starts, to unable to get an out in the 7th both times. Maybe it is pressure, who knows. But he was unreal those first 6 IP both times, very odd lines for those games.
For the playoffs, before this year, his line goes like this:
4.21 ERA, 38Ks, 14BB, 36.1 IP, 32 H, .237 BAA
That isn't great, and certainly not Kershaw-like; but it isn't terrible either.
Not sure what to make of it, it is just, odd.
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Yeaaaa, the only problem with it is that the lady friend has been none to happy...
Get a new lady friend. ;) Doyer fans are among the worst.
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Kershaw in the playoffs last year:
vs. ATL
7 IP, 3H, 3 BB, 12K, 1 ER
6 IP, 3H, 1 BB, 6K, 0 ER
vs STL
6 IP, 2H, 1 BB, 5K, 0 ER
Then he had the clunker
4 IP, 10H, 2 BB, 5K, 7 ER
That is one tough game. Hard to say a tough go in the playoffs. And for this year it was so odd. I can't recall seeing a guy go from so dominant, as he was through 6 IP in both starts, to unable to get an out in the 7th both times. Maybe it is pressure, who knows. But he was unreal those first 6 IP both times, very odd lines for those games.
For the playoffs, before this year, his line goes like this:
4.21 ERA, 38Ks, 14BB, 36.1 IP, 32 H, .237 BAA
That isn't great, and certainly not Kershaw-like; but it isn't terrible either.
Not sure what to make of it, it is just, odd.
It is a crazy game. I think he's 0-4 in his last 4 playoff games with something like a 6 ERA (don't quote me on that).
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0-4 with an ERA of 7.15. Though in one start he lost and surrendered 0 ER. 22.2 IP, 24H, 5BB, 29 K.
It shows the oddness of the line with a WHIP of 1.3 and an ERA of 7.15. Again,the oddness, a 5.8 K/BB Ratio and an ERA of 7.15.
That ERA is pretty high for those peripherals. Really speaks to those big innings. It is tough to figure. With that being said, I'd happily give him the ball in games 1,4,7 in any playoff series. I may take him out after 6 though. Unless I had the dodgers (or Tigers) bullpen... it is tricky.
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Move your money to KC.
Bump
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Congrats to the Royals.
They are playing with insane confidence.
I'll be rooting for them against either of the two remaining NL teams.
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I now understand what those t-shirts that said "I have a Yost infection" meant.
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The Royals are on a crazy roll. Orioles hitting line drives and long fly balls all over the place, but the Royals either in the right place or their great outfield tracks them down. Meanwhile, they cobble together runs with broken bat bloopers and swinging bunts (although they hit some important HRs against the O's). 2 runs yesterday without getting the ball out of the infield. As an AL fan, I hope the roll continues, but I get the feeling their good fortune ends in the World Series. Of course I've been wrong about almost every series so far, so they'll probably win the whole thing.
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I can't see how all the Royal home runs will continue in the World Series. Then again, I couldn't imagine they'd have so many HR in the LCS.
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So it looks like the 2 wild card teams may make it to the Series. I still long for the days when the teams with best season record in each league went to the World Series.
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Bump
Ya but how were we supposed to take it seriously when you didn't say done deal.
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Ya but how were we supposed to take it seriously when you didn't say done deal.
D'oh!
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So it looks like the 2 wild card teams may make it to the Series. I still long for the days when the teams with best season record in each league went to the World Series.
Crap shoot. ;)
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Update:
Underdogs who have won: 6
Favorites who have won: 0
Series underdogs win 14 games, favorites 2.
Final Update:
Underdogs who won: 8
Favorites who won: 0
Series underdogs win 22 games, favorites 3. The two biggest longshots in the playoffs are meeting for the title. A crapshoot like the NCAA basketball tournament has never seen. End of argument, case closed.
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Wasn't KC the favorite in the WC playoff with the A's?
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Wasn't KC the favorite in the WC playoff with the A's?
No, because Lester was pitching for the A's.
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Final Update:
Underdogs who won: 8
Favorites who won: 0
Series underdogs win 22 games, favorites 3. The two biggest longshots in the playoffs are meeting for the title. A crapshoot like the NCAA basketball tournament has never seen. End of argument, case closed.
LOL
You sure have changed your tune on this one over the years.
I had ranked the NCAA tournament as the #1 crapshoot, followed by MLB, then NHL, then NFL, then NBA. Nothing has changed, MLB has been this way for a long time because you never get the same team day to day. Your best pitcher can only pitch so many games, and a team is totally different one year to the next.
That being said, I think you may want to go back and look again at what a bigger crapshoot is, and please for the love of God stop using betting underdogs, that is to get people to bet. Worse, don't use record to determine who the best team is, especially going into the playoffs, that has been proven time and time again to you to be flawed based on schedule, key injuries, etc, etc. This year has been rarer than most years, it's only the second time in history that two wild cards are playing for the title, but go through the power rankings year by year and despite the nature of baseball and it's quirkiness because the same pitcher can't pitch, etc, the favorites do better than in the NCAA tournament.
Case isn't closed, you're just wrong...again.
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Wasn't KC the favorite in the WC playoff with the A's?
The Royals were rated higher than the A's in the power ratings. Were they a betting underdog? Sure, but betting lines are beyond silly for any number of reasons which those in the betting industry have explained many times over. They have a directional purpose, but they are there to induce action.
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Wasn't KC the favorite in the WC playoff with the A's?
No. A's were -1.10
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Yikes, Oscar Tavaras died in a car accident in the Dominican Republic today. Crazy how life goes. If the Cards beat the Giants obviously he's not there. Sad.
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Yikes, Oscar Tavaras died in a car accident in the Dominican Republic today. Crazy how life goes. If the Cards beat the Giants obviously he's not there. Sad.
RIP, Taveras. 22 yo.
crazy indeed
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Hancocked?
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@JonHeymanCBS: joe maddon to become cubs manager. story up soon at @CBSSports
So, this will go about as well as Dusty Baker, Don Baylor and Lou Pinella.
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@JonHeymanCBS: joe maddon to become cubs manager. story up soon at @CBSSports
So, this will go about as well as Dusty Baker, Don Baylor and Lou Pinella.
Not a Cubs fan but Maddon has a track record of developing young players.
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Not a Cubs fan but Maddon has a track record of developing young players.
Well, he also had the benefit of a lot of former top draft picks to develop. The Rays had a top 10 pick - and usually a top 5 pick - every year between 1999 and 2008.
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Plenty of good young position players who would probably develop under any manager.
It all comes down to when Theo is going to get a pitching staff. There will be no success until then no matter who is sitting in the dugout.
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Well, he also had the benefit of a lot of former top draft picks to develop. The Rays had a top 10 pick - and usually a top 5 pick - every year between 1999 and 2008.
That's pretty close to what the cubs are working with isn't it?
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Well, he also had the benefit of a lot of former top draft picks to develop. The Rays had a top 10 pick - and usually a top 5 pick - every year between 1999 and 2008.
Cubs had/have a ton of top picks in the system. Arguably one of the most talented farm systems right now. And, if I remember correctly, something like 6 of the top 50 prospects.
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Well, he also had the benefit of a lot of former top draft picks to develop. The Rays had a top 10 pick - and usually a top 5 pick - every year between 1999 and 2008.
Baseball America Prospect Rankings
http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2014-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-free/
5) Javier Baez
8) Kris Bryant
14) Addison Russell
28) CJ Edwards
36) Albert Almora
41) Jorge Soler
87) Pierce Johnson
100) Arismendy Alcantara
Expected to be top 50 with next release) Kyle Schawber & Billy McKinney
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Also with all of the young players, the Cubs only have $31 million committed for the 2015 season. (Pre arbitration and Maddon contract)
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It all comes down to when Theo is going to get a pitching staff. There will be no success until then no matter who is sitting in the dugout.
The Cubs committed payroll is $31MM next season. They could throw $50MM each per season at Lester and Price or Scherzer if they wanted to. Pitching can be bought and will not be a problem.
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The Cubs committed payroll is $31MM next season. They could throw $50MM each per season at Lester and Price or Scherzer if they wanted to. Pitching can be bought and will not be a problem.
That's what I meant, MDM (I may not have been real clear). It's about WHEN Theo is going to go after pitchers - this year, next year???
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Feel bad for Rick Renteria, thought he did a really nice job this year. Though I've got to respect a GM that goes with the balls out approach to make the move he thinks will win.
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When I worked for the Angels we fired Terry Collins and promoted Maddon to manager for about a month to end the season. Then we hired Scioscia who remains in place today. Maddon is good guy. Very dry sense of humor., cerebral guy but likes to have fun. He will fit in well in Chicago. Glad the Cubs have him instead of the Doyers.
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Glad the Cubs have him instead of the Doyers.
Serious question, where does Doyers come from? My girlfriend whose a dodgers fan and from So Cal always calls them that too. Is it supposed to be making fun of them?
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Helluva finish. Escobar or Cain might have been able to turn that play into an inside-the-park home run. Gordon would have been toast.
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Helluva finish. Escobar or Cain might have been able to turn that play into an inside-the-park home run. Gordon would have been toast.
Agree, but the way Bumgarner was dealing it might have been worth it to take the chance that there would be a bad relay or something.
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The Cubs committed payroll is $31MM next season. They could throw $50MM each per season at Lester and Price or Scherzer if they wanted to. Pitching can be bought and will not be a problem.
The pitchers moved at the trade deadline this year showed that pitching can generally be available.
I've read that the Cubs will definitely go after at least one top pitcher this year, but may also target another pitcher the year after.
Finally, it's not like the Cubs have really had a problem finding starting pitching. They just keep dealing 2/5 of their rotation every deadline.
In other words, I agree with what you wrote, but wanted to add some color to it.
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Agree, but the way Bumgarner was dealing it might have been worth it to take the chance that there would be a bad relay or something.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Gordon runs through the stop sign and the Giants make an accurate relay and he is out by 30 feet and is the eternal goat. Banking on a team that has made it to the 9th inning of the 7th game of the World Series to make a third defensive mistake on the same play so that you can score a little league-style tying run. Extreme long shot.
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Cubs are unbelievably well positioned right now. Not only do they have the money to sign FA pitching, they also have a surplus of young MLB or close to MLB ready prospects that can be traded for pitching. They proved last year what a prospect like Addison Reed can net in a trade.
They won't be quite all the way there this year. Still need to shake out the core group of players, but over then next season and couple of off seasons, they likely will have completed FA signings, trades, etc., to be very good for a number of years. Any roster weaknesses that remain a year from now should be easily addressed via FA signing or trade.
Brewers would be wise to get bold this off season and take advantage of their rotation while it is still intact, as that division is just going to continue to get better.
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Gordon runs through the stop sign and the Giants make an accurate relay and he is out by 30 feet and is the eternal goat. Banking on a team that has made it to the 9th inning of the 7th game of the World Series to make a third defensive mistake on the same play so that you can score a little league-style tying run. Extreme long shot.
Yeah, you're right of course. I had 0% confidence that run was going to score once Gordon stopped at 3rd. The reality was a little higher than that. If he ran it would have been 10-15%.
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The Cubs committed payroll is $31MM next season. They could throw $50MM each per season at Lester and Price or Scherzer if they wanted to. Pitching can be bought and will not be a problem.
Pitching is available and can be bought but long-term, big money contracts rarely work out well when it comes to pitchers.
Gil Meche 5yr/$55M - Bust whose retirement saved KC over $30M.
Barry Zito - 7yr/$126M - Bust
Carlos Silva - 4yr/$48M - Such a bust that he was traded for Milton Bradley
AJ Burnett - 5yr/$83M - Bust who was eventually traded just to get him off the roster
CC Sabathia - 8yr/$182M - Very good for 4 years, rough season, injury-plagued season. Still owed nearly $75M.
John Lackey - 6yr/$83M (Theo) - Bad season, awful season, missed season, good season, above average season. Not worth $83M.
Cliff Lee - 5yr/$120M - 3 outstanding seasons then an injury-plagued season. 36yo and still owed at least $38M, possibly up to $52M.
CJ Wilson - 5yr/$78M - Above average season, good season, bad season. Still owed $38M
Anibal Sanchez - 5yr/$88M - Great season, above average injury-plagued season
Zack Greinke - 6yr/$159M - 2 outstanding seasons
Edwin Jackson - 4yr/$52M (Theo) - 2 awful seasons, still owed $22M
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Yeah, you're right of course. I had 0% confidence that run was going to score once Gordon stopped at 3rd. The reality was a little higher than that. If he ran it would have been 10-15%.
As soon as they booted the ball at the wall, I immediately thought he might try to score (especially after seeing Billy score from 1st early on), I was surprised to see him barely rounding 2nd at that point, but then I remembered that Gordy runs about as well as Billy Butler and yet had another base to go.
If Sveum was in the 3B box, would Gordy have been sent? Even a below-average relay gets him at the plate; the 3B coach would have to be banking on hope for a bad hop or a throw way off-line, because there's no way there would have been a collision with Posey at the plate.
Something for Royal fans to ponder over the next couple decades.
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Cubs are unbelievably well positioned right now. Not only do they have the money to sign FA pitching, they also have a surplus of young MLB or close to MLB ready prospects that can be traded for pitching. They proved last year what a prospect like Addison Reed can net in a trade
Addison Reed wasn't a Cub prospect, he was the White Sox closer, but the Sox did prove that someone will overpay for a dime a dozen closer - Adam Eaton was a very good get,
.
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Addison Reed wasn't a Cub prospect, he was the White Sox closer, but the Sox did prove that someone will overpay for a dime a dozen closer - Adam Eaton was a very good get,
.
He meant Addison Russell who the Cubs got in the Samardzija trade.
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Serious question, where does Doyers come from? My girlfriend whose a dodgers fan and from So Cal always calls them that too. Is it supposed to be making fun of them?
No, it's not making fun of them....part of everyday dialogue here in So. Cal, of course somewhere someone is outraged somewhere ( http://www.presstelegram.com/social-affairs/20141001/is-the-los-angeles-dodgers-los-doyers-moniker-offensive )
In So. Cal this is the adopted name used to call the Dodgers by Hispanics. The name has become so prevalent now that on the morning drive-ins a number of the announcers just say Los Doyers. The Dodgers trademarked Los Doyers about 5 years ago. Go to Dodger Stadium and you can buy a Dodger Dog or a Doyer Dog.
Here's a bit of the history on it.
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20131015/how-the-los-angeles-dodgers-became-known-as-los-doyers
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Addison Reed wasn't a Cub prospect, he was the White Sox closer, but the Sox did prove that someone will overpay for a dime a dozen closer - Adam Eaton was a very good get,
.
The Sox got Eaton for Hector Santiago. The got Matt Davidson for Reed.
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As soon as they booted the ball at the wall, I immediately thought he might try to score (especially after seeing Billy score from 1st early on), I was surprised to see him barely rounding 2nd at that point, but then I remembered that Gordy runs about as well as Billy Butler and yet had another base to go.
If Sveum was in the 3B box, would Gordy have been sent? Even a below-average relay gets him at the plate; the 3B coach would have to be banking on hope for a bad hop or a throw way off-line, because there's no way there would have been a collision with Posey at the plate.
Something for Royal fans to ponder over the next couple decades.
That would have been crazy. I can't lie, when he booted the ball it occurred to me, and when the LF couldn't grac the ball, I really thought it was a possibility. Crawford was getting the ball right when Gordon was rounding 3rd. It would have been a close play. Crawford has a great arm, but there is alot that needs to go right to get Gordon. Considering how Perez had struggled, especially with runners on, well who knows. Would have been an epic end to the game anyways. Who knows, maybe that stupid home plate rule could have come into play. So, I guess, thankfully he stayed.
Bumgarner was just unreal.
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Pitching is available and can be bought but long-term, big money contracts rarely work out well when it comes to pitchers.
Or hitters...
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Cubs are unbelievably well positioned right now. Not only do they have the money to sign FA pitching, they also have a surplus of young MLB or close to MLB ready prospects that can be traded for pitching. They proved last year what a prospect like Addison Reed can net in a trade.
They won't be quite all the way there this year. Still need to shake out the core group of players, but over then next season and couple of off seasons, they likely will have completed FA signings, trades, etc., to be very good for a number of years. Any roster weaknesses that remain a year from now should be easily addressed via FA signing or trade.
Brewers would be wise to get bold this off season and take advantage of their rotation while it is still intact, as that division is just going to continue to get better.
Under Theo, the Cubs have pretty much done everything right with drafting, player development, the stadium, etc. They knew they had to tear the whole thing down and build it over. And it's going to work.
I wouldn't doubt that they are still in wild card contention come August next summer.
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As soon as they booted the ball at the wall, I immediately thought he might try to score (especially after seeing Billy score from 1st early on), I was surprised to see him barely rounding 2nd at that point, but then I remembered that Gordy runs about as well as Billy Butler and yet had another base to go.
If Sveum was in the 3B box, would Gordy have been sent? Even a below-average relay gets him at the plate; the 3B coach would have to be banking on hope for a bad hop or a throw way off-line, because there's no way there would have been a collision with Posey at the plate.
Something for Royal fans to ponder over the next couple decades.
Talked about this with my friends. He slowed down once he rounded second because I dont think he saw the bobble and just saw the stop sign. I think if he runs full speed all the way through you have a chance but with Bumgarner pitching and Perez not being able to drive through the ball because of his leg I think you gotta take the change and send him. Relays are tough and a lot has to go right.
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Yeah, you're right of course. I had 0% confidence that run was going to score once Gordon stopped at 3rd. The reality was a little higher than that. If he ran it would have been 10-15%.
Nice analysis:
"No, Alex Gordon could not have scored on the misplayed ball"
http://deadspin.com/no-alex-gordon-could-not-have-scored-on-the-misplayed-1652625998 (http://deadspin.com/no-alex-gordon-could-not-have-scored-on-the-misplayed-1652625998)
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Under Theo, the Cubs have pretty much done everything right with drafting, player development, the stadium, etc. They knew they had to tear the whole thing down and build it over. And it's going to work.
I wouldn't doubt that they are still in wild card contention come August next summer.
It is a very exciting time to be a Cubs fan, especially if one has been paying attention to the farm system.
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It is a very exciting time to be a Cubs fan, especially if one has been paying attention to the farm system.
We've heard that line many times before. Just wait until Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters get to the bigs. And don't forget when the Cubs were led to the promised land by Dusty Baker and the young nucleus of Mark Prior, Corey Patterson and Hee-Soep Choi. Oh, let's not leave future HOFers Kevin Orie, Gary Scott, Felix Pie, Donnie Veal and Sean Gallagher out of the discussion.
Having highly-regarded prospects means nothing until they produce at the big league level.
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We've heard that line many times before. Just wait until Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters get to the bigs. And don't forget when the Cubs were led to the promised land by Dusty Baker and the young nucleus of Mark Prior, Corey Patterson and Hee-Soep Choi. Oh, let's not leave future HOFers Kevin Orie, Gary Scott, Felix Pie, Donnie Veal and Sean Gallagher out of the discussion.
Having highly-regarded prospects means nothing until they produce at the big league level.
I saw brett Jackson in AA when he was there best prospect. He sucked. The year after Jackson was their top prospect, I saw him in a game when he batted 7th and was taken out as part of a double-switch in the 6th inning. I saw Baez in AA as their best prospect and he was a monster. The eye test said he was a young version of Hanley Ramirez or Gary Sheffield.
I'm not a Cub fan but there is absolutely NO COMPARISON between, Baez, Bryant, Soler, Addison, etc. and the likes of Jackson, Vitter, Orie, Patterson, etc.
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We've heard that line many times before. Just wait until Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters get to the bigs. And don't forget when the Cubs were led to the promised land by Dusty Baker and the young nucleus of Mark Prior, Corey Patterson and Hee-Soep Choi. Oh, let's not leave future HOFers Kevin Orie, Gary Scott, Felix Pie, Donnie Veal and Sean Gallagher out of the discussion.
Having highly-regarded prospects means nothing until they produce at the big league level.
Your first paragraph is a strawman.
You're right that prospects need to produce. I'm going to continue being excited!
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Pitching is available and can be bought but long-term, big money contracts rarely work out well when it comes to pitchers.
Gil Meche 5yr/$55M - Bust whose retirement saved KC over $30M.
Barry Zito - 7yr/$126M - Bust
Carlos Silva - 4yr/$48M - Such a bust that he was traded for Milton Bradley
AJ Burnett - 5yr/$83M - Bust who was eventually traded just to get him off the roster
CC Sabathia - 8yr/$182M - Very good for 4 years, rough season, injury-plagued season. Still owed nearly $75M.
John Lackey - 6yr/$83M (Theo) - Bad season, awful season, missed season, good season, above average season. Not worth $83M.
Cliff Lee - 5yr/$120M - 3 outstanding seasons then an injury-plagued season. 36yo and still owed at least $38M, possibly up to $52M.
CJ Wilson - 5yr/$78M - Above average season, good season, bad season. Still owed $38M
Anibal Sanchez - 5yr/$88M - Great season, above average injury-plagued season
Zack Greinke - 6yr/$159M - 2 outstanding seasons
Edwin Jackson - 4yr/$52M (Theo) - 2 awful seasons, still owed $22M
Don't forget Theo and Jed have also signed several free agent pitchers who have worked out so well they were able to be flipped for even more prospects. Edwin Jackson was a bust but the majority of free agent pitching signings have worked out very well for Theo, Jed, and the Cubs.
Addison Russell isn't a Cub if Theo doesn't sign Jason Hammel.
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Your first paragraph is a strawman.
You're right that prospects need to produce. I'm going to continue being excited!
All I was saying is that I've fallen for the "we have great prospects" line before. Toronto, San Diego, Arizona and Cleveland have all had top 1-5 farm systems recently. How's that working for them? Until prospects actually produce on a Major League field, I'm not going to get overly excited.
Don't forget Theo and Jed have also signed several free agent pitchers who have worked out so well they were able to be flipped for even more prospects. Edwin Jackson was a bust but the majority of free agent pitching signings have worked out very well for Theo, Jed, and the Cubs.
Addison Russell isn't a Cub if Theo doesn't sign Jason Hammel.
Actually, Billy McKinney isn't a Cub if Theo doesn't sign Hammel. Apples to oranges anyway. Signing pitchers to a 1-year deal in hopes of dealing them is very different than signing them to long-term deals. Hammel and Feldman worked out great and Maholm also worked out pretty well, but Theo has also whiffed on some low-risk pitchers too: Scott Baker, Andy Sonnanstine, Manny Corpas, Chris Volstad, Kyuji Fujikawa, Justin Germano, Michael Bowden, Alex Hinshaw, Jose Veras.
That's not necessarily a knock against the FO. They wanted the team to be bad so they had nothing to lose by bringing in a bunch of arms and hoping that at least a few could stick and a few have (Hector Rondon comes to mind). That said, I'm not going to heap praise on them for their FA pitching signings, especially when their one major signing has been a complete bust.
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There are former top 50 prospects released and signed to new minor league deals every week. The thing I'd be scared of if I were a Cub fan is the lack of pitching depth in that farm system.
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All I was saying is that I've fallen for the "we have great prospects" line before. Toronto, San Diego, Arizona and Cleveland have all had top 1-5 farm systems recently. How's that working for them? Until prospects actually produce on a Major League field, I'm not going to get overly excited.
Yeah but I remember when the Brewers were so completely hopeless at the end of the Davey Lopes era and the Seligs still owned the club. When they sold, and developed an actual functioning organization and prospects started to come up through the pipeline, it was fun. A hell of a lot better than the hopelessness that existed previously.
Of course Melvin hasn't been perfect and things seem to have dried up. But optimism is way better than pessimism.
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All I was saying is that I've fallen for the "we have great prospects" line before. Toronto, San Diego, Arizona and Cleveland have all had top 1-5 farm systems recently. How's that working for them? Until prospects actually produce on a Major League field, I'm not going to get overly excited.
I think the Cubs' prospects came up in topic b/c someone said Maddon was so successful in Tampa Bay at developing the young, high-potential draft picks the Rays acquired for several years, which is exactly what the Cubs have now. Just briefly scanning through posts, no one is saying the Cubs WILL be great because of their talent, just that there is the potential. And, again, it came up in relation to Maddon.
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There are former top 50 prospects released and signed to new minor league deals every week. The thing I'd be scared of if I were a Cub fan is the lack of pitching depth in that farm system.
That's kind of the point. The Cubs make hitters a priority, especially with the offensive environment in the majors now. They aren't big on drafting high on pitchers, simply because they burn out much more than hitters. And they also pick up guys like Arrieta and hopefully Jacob Turner, who were undervalued by their old organizations.
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The Sox got Eaton for Hector Santiago. The got Matt Davidson for Reed.
Santiago blows....what a disappointment this year.
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I think the Cubs' prospects came up in topic b/c someone said Maddon was so successful in Tampa Bay at developing the young, high-potential draft picks the Rays acquired for several years, which is exactly what the Cubs have now. Just briefly scanning through posts, no one is saying the Cubs WILL be great because of their talent, just that there is the potential. And, again, it came up in relation to Maddon.
I don't know how good Maddon is at developing young players - but he has been very, very willing to use the young guys.
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I don't know how good Maddon is at developing young players - but he has been very, very willing to use the young guys.
So in other words, if he coached basketball, he would have played JJJ and Dawson more often.
Sorry.
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Santiago blows....what a disappointment this year.
That seems a little harsh. He isn't a perfect pitcher, but a 3.75 ERA, less than a h/IP out of a 26 year old lefty. He just needs to cut down his walks.
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That's kind of the point. The Cubs make hitters a priority, especially with the offensive environment in the majors now. They aren't big on drafting high on pitchers, simply because they burn out much more than hitters. And they also pick up guys like Arrieta and hopefully Jacob Turner, who were undervalued by their old organizations.
They weren't undervalued. The word is bad. They were bad for their old organizations. Arrieta at least. Turner was both decent and bad, but very young. Upon further review, maybe he was undervalued.
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The Sox got Eaton for Hector Santiago. The got Matt Davidson for Reed.
Correct. My mistake
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They weren't undervalued. The word is bad. They were bad for their old organizations. Arrieta at least. Turner was both decent and bad, but very young. Upon further review, maybe he was undervalued.
This is a very good article by one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus. It looks at both the Cubs approach to stocking up on hitting as well as picking up undervalued pitchers (based on ERA > FIP).
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-cubs-rebuilding-theo-epstein-javier-baez-kris-bryant-jake-arrieta/
Personally, I think there's more pitching in the farm system than is reported. It's just that most of it is high A or lower, and no one that really stands out as a TOR starter yet.
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So in other words, if he coached basketball, he would have played JJJ and Dawson more often.
Sorry.
Com' on - we don't want Ners on a baseball thread :o
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That seems a little harsh. He isn't a perfect pitcher, but a 3.75 ERA, less than a h/IP out of a 26 year old lefty. He just needs to cut down his walks.
Probably too harsh, but he was so inconsistent this year, especially in the first half. Frustrating.
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Probably too harsh, but he was so inconsistent this year, especially in the first half. Frustrating.
Now frustrating I get. Nothing worse than a pitcher that can't hit the K zone enough. Especially when his stuff is good enough to pitch through the strike zone.
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This is a very good article by one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus. It looks at both the Cubs approach to stocking up on hitting as well as picking up undervalued pitchers (based on ERA > FIP).
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/chicago-cubs-rebuilding-theo-epstein-javier-baez-kris-bryant-jake-arrieta/
Personally, I think there's more pitching in the farm system than is reported. It's just that most of it is high A or lower, and no one that really stands out as a TOR starter yet.
Interesting article, but nothing that really rings terribly true I don't think.
The Giants were very middling offensively, I think we know how they won the WS. They Royals, were, much less than middling.
(2013)Boston was elite last year.
(2012)The Giants the year before were middling.
(2011)The Cards were very good if not elite, but close.
(2010) The Giants were below average
(2009)The Yanks were Elite.
(2008)The Phillies were middle of the pack.
(2007)Boston was elite.
Pitching wise...
(2014) SF was high side of medium. But an elite pitcher single-handedly won them 3 games
(2013) Boston was exact middle. But had a dominant postseason pitcher.
(2012) Giants were very good
(2011) STL was middling -- though again, Wainwright...
(2010) SF was Elite, best in baseball
(2009) The Yanks, were just on the good side of middle.
(2008) The Phillies were very good
(2007) Boston was elite.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out for the Cubs. But high end hitting prospects flame out the same as pitchers, a great pitcher can win a WS game for you, or even 3.
I'm a White Sox fan. I wouldn't trade Chris Sale for Bryant. Or Bryant and Soler. Or probably even Bryant, Soler and Baez.
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Interesting article, but nothing that really rings terribly true I don't think.
The Giants were very middling offensively, I think we know how they won the WS. They Royals, were, much less than middling.
(2013)Boston was elite last year.
(2012)The Giants the year before were middling.
(2011)The Cards were very good if not elite, but close.
(2010) The Giants were below average
(2009)The Yanks were Elite.
(2008)The Phillies were middle of the pack.
(2007)Boston was elite.
Pitching wise...
(2014) SF was high side of medium. But an elite pitcher single-handedly won them 3 games
(2013) Boston was exact middle. But had a dominant postseason pitcher.
(2012) Giants were very good
(2011) STL was middling -- though again, Wainwright...
(2010) SF was Elite, best in baseball
(2009) The Yanks, were just on the good side of middle.
(2008) The Phillies were very good
(2007) Boston was elite.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out for the Cubs. But high end hitting prospects flame out the same as pitchers, a great pitcher can win a WS game for you, or even 3.
I'm a White Sox fan. I wouldn't trade Chris Sale for Bryant. Or Bryant and Soler. Or probably even Bryant, Soler and Baez.
That's fine as a fan, but Hahn would trade Sale for two of those three in a heartbeat. Hahn would probably trade for one and a PTBNL as well.
As much as I love watching Sale, he was an active name on waivers for a reason. It was reported they asked for Polanco from the Pirates, Giolito from the Nats and Pedersen or Seager from the Dodgers. None of the teams took the bait...
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That's fine as a fan, but Hahn would trade Sale for two of those three in a heartbeat. Hahn would probably trade for one and a PTBNL as well.
As much as I love watching Sale, he was an active name on waivers for a reason. It was reported they asked for Polanco from the Pirates, Giolito from the Nats and Pedersen or Seager from the Dodgers. None of the teams took the bait...
Really? I didn't hear any of that reported, and I'm actually curious where you did. Just so I can stay more on stuff, just because I love the trade rumors and such. If that is true, those teams are stupid. Especially Pittsburgh. As a player signed through 2018 at a very team friendly rate he may just be the best player value in MLB right now.
And how would 1 of those guys and a PTBNL put the Sox in a better position to win? I can't see that, so I don't see how Hahn would make a deal like that.
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Really? I didn't hear any of that reported, and I'm actually curious where you did. Just so I can stay more on stuff, just because I love the trade rumors and such. If that is true, those teams are stupid. Especially Pittsburgh. As a player signed through 2018 at a very team friendly rate he may just be the best player value in MLB right now.
And how would 1 of those guys and a PTBNL put the Sox in a better position to win? I can't see that, so I don't see how Hahn would make a deal like that.
That's what Bruce Levine was reporting on The Score after the trade deadline was over on The Score, he seems to be pretty tuned into Hahn.
If Hahn were to make a deal like that, I think it shows that the organization is hedging their bets that the arm won't last as long.
Either way, I hope Sale stays on the southside, too much fun to watch.
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That's what Bruce Levine was reporting on The Score after the trade deadline was over on The Score, he seems to be pretty tuned into Hahn.
If Hahn were to make a deal like that, I think it shows that the organization is hedging their bets that the arm won't last as long.
Either way, I hope Sale stays on the southside, too much fun to watch.
Hmm, well I must have missed those reports, I don't listen to the Score a ton because I find most of the hosts to be intolerable, though I do like Speigel. Though usually when he says something like that it ends up on MLBTR. I listen to MLB radio quite a bit and never heard Sale's name mentioned at all. And Hahn himself has said Sale is untouchable several times, though that is likely posturing.
The great thing about Sale's contract is that it isn't crippling in the event that he misses a season with Tommy John or whatever. Obviously you can't replace his talent, but financially it wouldn't be a killer.
And I completely agree. Hope Sale is on the Sox for a good long time.
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Levine said it after Dombrowski texted Beane 'You have one minute to acquire Sale'. Meatheads were flooding The Score in typical fashion in shock that Sale could be traded.
Levine mentioned it as 'Sox fans have nothing to worry about. Hahn is asking a big tag, like Gregory Polanco....'
It was on Hit and Run which is on Saturday mornings, really good baseball program.
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Levine is a hack. He's a mouthpiece for the Cubs and that's about all
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Interesting article, but nothing that really rings terribly true I don't think.
The Giants were very middling offensively, I think we know how they won the WS. They Royals, were, much less than middling.
(2013)Boston was elite last year.
(2012)The Giants the year before were middling.
(2011)The Cards were very good if not elite, but close.
(2010) The Giants were below average
(2009)The Yanks were Elite.
(2008)The Phillies were middle of the pack.
(2007)Boston was elite.
Pitching wise...
(2014) SF was high side of medium. But an elite pitcher single-handedly won them 3 games
(2013) Boston was exact middle. But had a dominant postseason pitcher.
(2012) Giants were very good
(2011) STL was middling -- though again, Wainwright...
(2010) SF was Elite, best in baseball
(2009) The Yanks, were just on the good side of middle.
(2008) The Phillies were very good
(2007) Boston was elite.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out for the Cubs. But high end hitting prospects flame out the same as pitchers, a great pitcher can win a WS game for you, or even 3.
I'm a White Sox fan. I wouldn't trade Chris Sale for Bryant. Or Bryant and Soler. Or probably even Bryant, Soler and Baez.
I think we can consider the playoffs a crapshoot at this point. The Cubs are building their team to compete and get into the playoffs multiple seasons in a row.
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I'm a White Sox fan. I wouldn't trade Chris Sale for Bryant. Or Bryant and Soler. Or probably even Bryant, Soler and Baez.
Well at least we know you would be a horrendous GM....
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Well at least we know you would be a horrendous GM....
That's fine. If I were a team that had a what top 5 pitcher, I wouldn't want to let go of him for anything less than a top 5 hitter. Could Bryant be that? Sure, seems like he actually could. Though Ben Grieve seemed like that too. 2 time minor league player of the year, seasons with 70+ XBH, top 10 prospect several times including number 1. Some good seasons in the bigs, but wouldn't have been worth trading a number 1 starter for. Soler and Baez both have some things to be concerned about.
If I have surefire greatness locked up in a longterm team friendly contract, why would I want anything but dead certainty coming back.
Maybe I am overvaluing him because I'm a Sox fan. Maybe I am overvaluing him because he is a LHP, and there aren't a bunch of those around, especially that throw mid to upper 90s. Maybe it is because I would personally rather build around great pitching.
In 2011 the top 10 prospects included Jesus Montero, Domonic Brown, Jeremy Hellickson, and James Taillon.
in 2012 they included guys like Bubba Starling, Brett Jackson and Gary Brown.
Prospects are just that. Sale is a proven elite MLB talent.
Jeff Samardzija netted at top 10 prospect, the previous year 1st rounder, and another former top100 prospect. Sale is 5 years younger, better, signed longer and signed for less money. He should command more, a lot more, than Shark.
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Brewers just acquired Adam Lind. Interesting move, certainly seems like he could be good fit and fill a need. Just depends on which Adam Lind shows up.
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Levine is a hack. He's a mouthpiece for the Cubs and that's about all
Yeah, there's a lot of baseball people that disagree with you.
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Brewers just acquired Adam Lind. Interesting move, certainly seems like he could be good fit and fill a need. Just depends on which Adam Lind shows up.
Bad Adam Lind is head and shoulders above anything the Brewers have thrown out at first base since Prince left town, so it's an upgrade any way you look at it. See if you can find any kind of plate discipline and instill some small ball (highly doubt either of those work out, but whatever) and hope Segura's bat comes around a little bit (I'm guessing he's really somewhere between what he was for the first 1/2 season he was on the Brewers and the last season and a half, not a great offensive player, but not the black hole he was in the lineup last year), and see Braun go back to HOF production with his thumb healed ::) and we've got one more run at the Playoffs.
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That's fine. If I were a team that had a what top 5 pitcher, I wouldn't want to let go of him for anything less than a top 5 hitter. Could Bryant be that? Sure, seems like he actually could. Though Ben Grieve seemed like that too. 2 time minor league player of the year, seasons with 70+ XBH, top 10 prospect several times including number 1. Some good seasons in the bigs, but wouldn't have been worth trading a number 1 starter for. Soler and Baez both have some things to be concerned about.
If I have surefire greatness locked up in a longterm team friendly contract, why would I want anything but dead certainty coming back.
Maybe I am overvaluing him because I'm a Sox fan. Maybe I am overvaluing him because he is a LHP, and there aren't a bunch of those around, especially that throw mid to upper 90s. Maybe it is because I would personally rather build around great pitching.
In 2011 the top 10 prospects included Jesus Montero, Domonic Brown, Jeremy Hellickson, and James Taillon.
in 2012 they included guys like Bubba Starling, Brett Jackson and Gary Brown.
Prospects are just that. Sale is a proven elite MLB talent.
Jeff Samardzija netted at top 10 prospect, the previous year 1st rounder, and another former top100 prospect. Sale is 5 years younger, better, signed longer and signed for less money. He should command more, a lot more, than Shark.
My response probably came off more dick'ish than I intended.
I am a Cubs fan so I probably overvalue some of our prospects to a certain extent. Sale is clearly one of the best pitchers in baseball and signed to a reasonable contract as of now. However, I still have concerns with his future health/durability and he is eventually going to get expensive. You have to take those factors into account.
I believe Bryant is as close to can't miss as you can get for a prospect and I expect him to be an impact hitter sooner than later. Comparing Bryant to guys like Brett Jackson and Bubba Starling just because they have been highly rated prospects at one point isn't accurate to me (and I completely understand how often top prospects flame out). Bryant had a historical season. As much as the Cubs need a #1 right now I am pretty confident they wouldn't move Bryant for Sale.
As for Soler, there are concerns like there are for any young player. However, he really acquitted himself well in September and he has a pretty polished approach. I actually feel fairly confident he can be an impact hitter as well and don't think he will flame out. Baez is the ultimate crapshoot - his ceiling is incredibly high and his floor is incredibly low. I am hoping for the best but I have no idea how he is going to turn out.
I also completely agree that Sale should be more valuable than Samardzija. I don't think Jeff is a #1 and am glad we didn't offer him more than the reported 5/85 deal. Samardzija didn't get all those guys himself although he is the reason we got Russell, which I am thrilled with. In theory, should Sale bring back more in trade than Samardzija? Absolutely but that's not guaranteed based on all of the potential variables.
I get that Sale is your guy as a Sox fan but to say you wouldn't trade him for all three of those guys or strongly consider it for 2 of the 3 is nuts, IMO.
As a Cubs fan it has been fascinating to watch this rebuild and everything seems to be coming together so it is hard not to be excited. Obviously, there are no guarantees with prospects but I feel that we have enough high impact prospects that we'll be fine even with the expected attrition (and having Rizzo and Castro signed to reasonable extensions already doesn't hurt). I'm also confident we'll find the impact pitching we need.
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My response probably came off more dick'ish than I intended.
I am a Cubs fan so I probably overvalue some of our prospects to a certain extent. Sale is clearly one of the best pitchers in baseball and signed to a reasonable contract as of now. However, I still have concerns with his future health/durability and he is eventually going to get expensive. You have to take those factors into account.
I believe Bryant is as close to can't miss as you can get for a prospect and I expect him to be an impact hitter sooner than later. Comparing Bryant to guys like Brett Jackson and Bubba Starling just because they have been highly rated prospects at one point isn't accurate to me (and I completely understand how often top prospects flame out). Bryant had a historical season. As much as the Cubs need a #1 right now I am pretty confident they wouldn't move Bryant for Sale.
As for Soler, there are concerns like there are for any young player. However, he really acquitted himself well in September and he has a pretty polished approach. I actually feel fairly confident he can be an impact hitter as well and don't think he will flame out. Baez is the ultimate crapshoot - his ceiling is incredibly high and his floor is incredibly low. I am hoping for the best but I have no idea how he is going to turn out.
I also completely agree that Sale should be more valuable than Samardzija. I don't think Jeff is a #1 and am glad we didn't offer him more than the reported 5/85 deal. Samardzija didn't get all those guys himself although he is the reason we got Russell, which I am thrilled with. In theory, should Sale bring back more in trade than Samardzija? Absolutely but that's not guaranteed based on all of the potential variables.
I get that Sale is your guy as a Sox fan but to say you wouldn't trade him for all three of those guys or strongly consider it for 2 of the 3 is nuts, IMO.
As a Cubs fan it has been fascinating to watch this rebuild and everything seems to be coming together so it is hard not to be excited. Obviously, there are no guarantees with prospects but I feel that we have enough high impact prospects that we'll be fine even with the expected attrition (and having Rizzo and Castro signed to reasonable extensions already doesn't hurt). I'm also confident we'll find the impact pitching we need.
The big thing about Sale is he is signed to that reasonable deal through 2019, through age 30. That's pretty much all of his prime. Which is huge. If he has injury problems, the last 2 years are option years, so the ball is in the Sox court there.
I really meant more to compare Bryant and Grieve. In Grieve's 21 year old season he was split between AA and AAA, he slashed .350/.461/.640 for an OPS of 1.100 with 40 2B, 31 HR and 136 RBI in 127 games. He also BBd 93 times.
In his 22 season Bryant slashed .325/.438/.661 for an OPS of 1.098. Bryant hit 34 2b and 41 HR with 110 RBI in 138 games. I feel like that is a pretty good comp, would someone have been stupid to not trade a 28 year old Mike Mussina for him? Or a 30 year old Randy Johnson, or a 25 year old Pedro?
I really meant some off field stuff for Soler, and Baez looks like he is Dan Uggla, but he is young enough to adjust. The Cubs have a lot of talent in the minors, and starting in the bigs. But Sale... in 3 years as a starter his worst season is finishing 6th in Cy Young voting. He is the guy every team wants in front of their rotation. That is what the Cubs completely lack. It'll be interesting to see what they do in free agency this year. Lots of good arms available.
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The big thing about Sale is he is signed to that reasonable deal through 2019, through age 30. That's pretty much all of his prime. Which is huge. If he has injury problems, the last 2 years are option years, so the ball is in the Sox court there.
I really meant more to compare Bryant and Grieve. In Grieve's 21 year old season he was split between AA and AAA, he slashed .350/.461/.640 for an OPS of 1.100 with 40 2B, 31 HR and 136 RBI in 127 games. He also BBd 93 times.
In his 22 season Bryant slashed .325/.438/.661 for an OPS of 1.098. Bryant hit 34 2b and 41 HR with 110 RBI in 138 games. I feel like that is a pretty good comp, would someone have been stupid to not trade a 28 year old Mike Mussina for him? Or a 30 year old Randy Johnson, or a 25 year old Pedro?
I really meant some off field stuff for Soler, and Baez looks like he is Dan Uggla, but he is young enough to adjust. The Cubs have a lot of talent in the minors, and starting in the bigs. But Sale... in 3 years as a starter his worst season is finishing 6th in Cy Young voting. He is the guy every team wants in front of their rotation. That is what the Cubs completely lack. It'll be interesting to see what they do in free agency this year. Lots of good arms available.
Agree with much of what you say - except Uggla would be about the last person I would compare Baez to. Baez has the kind of bat speed that we saw with Ernie Banks, Hank Aaron, Gary Sheffield, GianCarlo Stanton, etc. I'm certainly not comparing him with any of those guys, but his ceiling is not too far away from that. He can be a consistent 30 - 35 HR guy.
He has had trouble every time he has moved up a level and every time he has adjusted. It will be more difficult at this level, but I expect he will. I'm guessing in the .250+ range next year. I think that with his hands and bat speed, he will be the best of all of the Cubs' young guys in three years - maybe comparable to Hanley with a little more power and a little less SB.
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Agree with much of what you say - except Uggla would be about the last person I would compare Baez to. Baez has the kind of bat speed that we saw with Ernie Banks, Hank Aaron, Gary Sheffield, GianCarlo Stanton, etc. I'm certainly not comparing him with any of those guys, but his ceiling is not too far away from that. He can be a consistent 30 - 35 HR guy.
He has had trouble every time he has moved up a level and every time he has adjusted. It will be more difficult at this level, but I expect he will. I'm guessing in the .250+ range next year. I think that with his hands and bat speed, he will be the best of all of the Cubs' young guys in three years - maybe comparable to Hanley with a little more power and a little less SB.
Just for the record, Dan Uggla HR by year: 27, 31,32,31,33,36,19,22. 5 straight seasons of 30+ hr. My comparision with Uggla was based on a couple of factors. Crazy power, especially for a MI, crazy K's, not a lot of BB.
The really concerning thing about him was 95Ks in 215 ABs. That is really a lot of whifcute onee.
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Just for the record, Dan Uggla HR by year: 27, 31,32,31,33,36,19,22. 5 straight seasons of 30+ hr. My comparision with Uggla was based on a couple of factors. Crazy power, especially for a MI, crazy K's, not a lot of BB.
The really concerning thing about him was 95Ks in 215 ABs. That is really a lot of whifcute onee.
Baez is definitely going to K at an absurd rate but I believe he was also the youngest player in the league once he was called up. He got himself out quite a bit swinging at the high fastball and the low-and-away breaking pitch. The power and bat speed is not in question and he actually was a pleasant surprise to me defensively. If he can hit 30 - 40 HRs at 2B with an 800+ OPS I'll take that any day regardless of the Ks.
Uggla had a really nice 5-6 year run but he fell off the cliff quickly.
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Baez is definitely going to K at an absurd rate but I believe he was also the youngest player in the league once he was called up. He got himself out quite a bit swinging at the high fastball and the low-and-away breaking pitch. The power and bat speed is not in question and he actually was a pleasant surprise to me defensively. If he can hit 30 - 40 HRs at 2B with an 800+ OPS I'll take that any day regardless of the Ks.
Uggla had a really nice 5-6 year run but he fell off the cliff quickly.
He sure did, and I didn't mean to slight Baez with the comp. Uggla was just the feast and famine type that Baez looks to be. Though Baez is still so young maybe he has time to change his approach a bit.
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For the record, this is from Boston Globe reporter, Nick Cafardo "he got “a minute of straight laughter” when he asked if the White Sox might trade Chris Sale."
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No one going to mention that Oscar Taveras was crapfaced?
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No one going to mention that Oscar Taveras was crapfaced?
Stupid decision, but does that change the fact that it's too bad a 22 year old is dead?
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Stupid decision, but does that change the fact that it's too bad a 22 year old is dead?
Yes.
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Stupid decision, but does that change the fact that it's too bad a 22 year old is dead?
Doesn't change the fact that its too bad that a 22 year old is dead, but it does lessen my sympathy, especially when you consider his actions also resulted in the death of his 18 year-old girlfriend.
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In one of the IU threads, I wrote that you can never underestimate the ability of an 18-21 year old male to bake bad decisions. Even though he was 22, I think this falls under that umbrella. He messed up bad. It is OK to simply acknowledge that and mourn him anyway.
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In one of the IU threads, I wrote that you can never underestimate the ability of an 18-21 year old male to bake bad decisions. Even though he was 22, I think this falls under that umbrella. He messed up bad. It is OK to simply acknowledge that and mourn him anyway.
Agreed. Almost every young man makes some really stupid decisions. Usually they result in little or no consequence. One in a while they (and others) pay the ultimate one. Stupid, but still sad.
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Doesn't change the fact that its too bad that a 22 year old is dead, but it does lessen my sympathy, especially when you consider his actions also resulted in the death of his 18 year-old girlfriend.
Exactly. A life is a life, but the level of sympathy I feel for an innocent victim is monumentally greater than what I feel for someone who materially contributed to the cause of his/her own death.
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Exactly. A life is a life, but the level of sympathy I feel for an innocent victim is monumentally greater than what I feel for someone who materially contributed to the cause of his/her own death.
More importantly, killing another person and potentially killing others.
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On a brighter note, Good Grief Clayton Kershaw!
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/10-remarkable-facts-about-clayton-kershaw-s-cy-young-and-mvp-season-003537165.html