MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on November 16, 2006, 01:36:54 AM

Title: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: TallTitan34 on November 16, 2006, 01:36:54 AM
Looks like no one told George about his number being used. . .

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=531855 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=531855)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: HoopDreams on November 16, 2006, 02:52:58 AM
And they let Amo wear the #43...and technically #31 has been retired twice. I understand the way Thompson feels, but I think it is a little ridiculous. Cords even stated they retire jerseys not numbers...oh, well #32 works, the same number as the Diesel.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: drunken midget on November 16, 2006, 03:38:23 AM
this is so freaking petty. who cares. i guess when you are like 70 years old all  you have are dumb things to whine about. at least he quit broadcasting so we dont have to listen to that junk evey game!
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: NYWarrior on November 16, 2006, 06:05:49 AM
keep in mind that Amo had #43 for a year and a half before it was retired....as for #31, yes it was retired twice (and worn by Mike Flory as well).  But Doc and Flory didn't don the number after it was retired.  Still, it stinks that GT took it to the paper -- as if he didnt know who to talk to at MU? 

Very disappointing
Title: Retiring numbers is a lame cliché that Marquette should avoid
Post by: MU Avenue on November 16, 2006, 07:41:22 AM
I know many people, including several who visit this site, see something special or deeply meaningful in retiring players’ numbers. I do not see or get it. I think the practice is corny and childish.

In Marquette’s case, the university’s intention is not even clear. Is MU retiring players’ numbers or is it hanging their jerseys from the rafters as tribute to their fine play? If the latter, do all numbers remain available for use by other MU athletes? And if the latter, why has Lazar Hayward been forced to change his number to 32 from 24?

George Thompson has no beef with Marquette if MU does not retire players’ numbers.

Marquette needs to speak clearly and quickly to this issue so it goes away. Hayward has big things on his mind. He should not have to deal with this ridiculous flap over the number on his shirt.

I hope Marquette does not -- and never will -- retire numbers. Hang jerseys, if it must, and call it good.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 08:15:01 AM
Geeze, what a mess.  I feel bad if George was really surprised by this, but a few thoughts...

1) GT goes from broadcasting every game to not even following a single boxscore this year? Is there more strain in the relationship between him and MU than meets the eye? Prior to this ordeal I mean?

2) What's with people taking problems to the public these days before they ever try to work them out in person!??  Talk about a general lack of respect in society...
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 16, 2006, 08:17:47 AM
Lots of amazing things in that story.  

* George not noticing until this week that Lazar had his number -- jeez, George, don't you have time to read the internet forums?

* George "throwing MU under the bus" as Cracked Sidewalks put it.  He must be really pissed off.

* MU sticking to the jerseys not numbers story.  No one, including a guy who really counts, GT, believes that, and the media guides of the past decades all say the same thing: we retire numbers.

Just admit that you need to switch the policy because of a lack of playable numbers; conference with the retirees and give them a bone .. tell them they are going to be asked, occasionally, to unretire their numbers to young men who they approve of.  
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 08:31:06 AM
* George not noticing until this week that Lazar had his number -- jeez, George, don't you have time to read the internet forums?

LOL...as I wrote my post I wondered...do they still print boxscores in the paper? So, doe the JS have boxscores in the print edition after a game?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu03eng on November 16, 2006, 08:44:52 AM
Wow, just unneeded bad press.  I think I buy the potential for bad blood between MU and Thompson.  This really seems to be something small to be blow up and George sounds pissed.  Me thinks there might be something more to this story.

Hopefully they will put the Zizzo Group on this to clean up the PR mess ;) ;D
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 16, 2006, 09:24:09 AM
maybe lazar should just work on outshining even GT.. then GT would have wished lazar HAD worn his number.. how's that for motivation?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: theodoc on November 16, 2006, 09:29:37 AM
Has anyone asked Joe Chapman how he feels about Hayward wearing his number?  :)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: HansMoleman on November 16, 2006, 09:35:01 AM
Just admit that you need to switch the policy because of a lack of playable numbers; conference with the retirees and give them a bone .. tell them they are going to be asked, occasionally, to unretire their numbers to young men who they approve of.  
[/quote]

Even if the numbers themselves were retired, aren't there still something like 28 playable numbers left?  That being said, at the rate we're honoring ex-players, we would have a problem in 20 years or so. :)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: Harrison on November 16, 2006, 09:38:31 AM
Well I guess I am in the minority.  Most programs retire the numbers of their legendary players to never be worn again. i think that is awesome.  Why would we have some stupid policy that retires a jersey and then let's some other player use the same number.  That is dumb.  I guess if Mu came out and said that is our policy I would be OK it, but the Media guides that I have for the last 35 years say "retired numbers".  Lastly, the available numbers argument is extremely weak.  Unless my math is wrong there are 36 available numers.  We have retired approx. 6.  are we saying we cannot pick 13 numbers out of 30?   ::)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 10:08:07 AM
The allowed numbers are single and double digits between 0 and 5 (i.e. 0, 00, 1-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, and 50-55 - this is so that the refs can use hand signals between them and the official scorer).  So yes, 32 numbers.

The other factor against retiring numbers, is that many athletes are very superstitious, and WANT to retain their numbers.  I know, crazy (I'm not superstitious), but I also would hate to lose an awesome recruit because we couldn't give him a stoopid number.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 16, 2006, 10:26:38 AM
just a thought but we're not the only basketball team in the country that retires numbers.. err.. jerseys.. I am sure others have similar problems with the numberspace decreasing as time goes on.  Have any of them "unretired" numbers or changed policy like what seems to be happening in this case?

Further, american sign language allows someone to sign digits 0-9 with one hand.  I wonder if there has ever been any thought by the ncaa to go this route and open up the numberspace some more?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu03eng on November 16, 2006, 10:28:55 AM
The other factor against retiring numbers, is that many athletes are very superstitious, and WANT to retain their numbers.  I know, crazy (I'm not superstitious), but I also would hate to lose an awesome recruit because we couldn't give him a stoopid number.

Rocky you have a point.  I know I was extremely superstitious about my number in high school and college.  I don't know that we would ever lose a recruit over a number but recruits have been lost for less(in the country, I don't know about MU).  I think this is a non-issue though, let the kid whatever number he wants and move on.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: bheitz on November 16, 2006, 10:32:35 AM
I have to say I'm disappointed that GT went to the papers.  At the same time I'm not surprised that he's a bit miffed.  I like retired numbers, but I also understand that there could be a need to re-use numbers.

MU has had plenty of time to get the policy straight.  I would suggest to take down the current banners and put up the jerseys.  Granted you probably won't have the originals or styles, but you've got to start somewhere.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: tomahawkchop on November 16, 2006, 10:33:20 AM
This is just typical Marquette cluelessness on display.  From Fr Wild and the Warriors/Eagles/Gold fiasco through that doofus Cords comments regarding this screw-up, MU has no inkling how to deal with bad PR.

MU is just a very poorly run university, imo.  
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 16, 2006, 10:40:36 AM
How can anybody point the finger of blame on Thompson??? He's 100 percent correct. He shouldn't have had to go to Marquette about this...Marquette should have come to him.

Make no mistake, this was done with full knowledged that the number was retired. It shows absolute no class by Marquette and is a complete lack of respect for a legendary former Marquette player. I don't know if those of you who are blaming Thompson for this are current students or what, but you're just plain wrong. This was raised as a red flag on Ahoya months ago and you're telling me nobody thought to mention it to George? Who is running the PR side of things in that athletic department? Perhaps the JS can do a follow up on the ridiculous radio situation.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: Warrior1969 on November 16, 2006, 10:41:14 AM
Why was nothing ever said by GT or anyone else about Novak wearing #20 for 4 years?  Or Amo wearing 43 for 2 years?  #31 has already been "retired" TWICE!  GT seems like he is completely clueless that this happens?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 16, 2006, 10:45:48 AM
Not to change the topic too much but I found thought this was a good source on hand signals for refs (although numbers seem to be by number of fingers raised regardless of position):
http://www.firstbasesports.com/basketball_signals.html

the ASL numbering scheme is:
http://www.lessontutor.com/eesASL4.html
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on November 16, 2006, 10:50:40 AM
31 was worn twice because it wasn't retired. When Rivers wore it, it was before it was retired for Ellis. And 43 was only retired two years ago, which is why Amo wore it initially. And are you joking about 20? Maurice Lucas? That number was retired LAST YEAR! That's why 20 was worn. Your arguments are ridiculous. George Thompson is 100 percent right! Marquette blew this one big time!!
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 11:01:15 AM
George Thompson is 100 percent right!

Disagree...he was 100% surprised (apparently), and the fault for that rests on MU.  However, taking his beef up in the media is not the right move, in my opinion.  What, was he taking lessons from UWM?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 11:08:02 AM
Further, american sign language allows someone to sign digits 0-9 with one hand.  I wonder if there has ever been any thought by the ncaa to go this route and open up the numberspace some more?

I looked at your links, and I can see why they limit it to 5.  6-9 are a little harder to distinguish...and this way you can clearly do 2 digits up to 55 on 2 hands
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 16, 2006, 11:10:24 AM
Agreed - but many swimming competitions use the asl hand signals (for lane numbers) across the length of olympic sized swimming pools without much in the way of issues so it has to be somewhat decent even at a distance.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu03eng on November 16, 2006, 11:37:38 AM
Nightmare, I think the blame is even.  MU for not telling GT and GT for going to the press.  I do wonder how such a big oversight could happen.

Now, the big thing that MU has to do is assuage GT, because I think he is a good recruiting tool and ambassador for the university.  On George's part I think he needs his questions answered and then move on, forgive and forget.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 16, 2006, 11:49:13 AM
Moses smell the roses .. the story was picked up by AP:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-061116marquette,1,3727737.story?coll=cs-college-headlines (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-061116marquette,1,3727737.story?coll=cs-college-headlines)

Nice going.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 16, 2006, 12:01:48 PM
.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: MUEng92 on November 16, 2006, 12:17:37 PM
Dang Chicos, you stole my thunder.

When I read this article in the paper, I kept thinking, why is GT making such a big deal about this.  Then it occurred to me.  I would guess this is more about him no longer doing broadcasts than uniform numbers.

I don't remember all of the details regarding his departure from the broadcasts (and if he left on his own, I have to take this all back), but I thought it was MU telling him thanks but no thanks when it came to contract renewal time.

I am not saying he is wrong to be upset about the number (well, maybe I am), but overall, I think he looks just as bad as MU in this article.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: IAmMarquette on November 16, 2006, 12:18:13 PM
Give me a break... this is newsworthy?
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: tomahawkchop on November 16, 2006, 12:20:20 PM
C'mon, Chicos...don't be a shill for MU.  This isn't the first time they've alienated/insulted alumni (this time a very important alum).  

And this isn't the first time they've botched PR.

In some ways, MU is a VERY screwed up institution.

And, yes, this is about more than just this one "mistake."
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 16, 2006, 12:25:46 PM
And, yes, this is about more than just this one "mistake."

Care to elaborate?
Title: Jerseys, not numbers. MU needs to clarify it's position
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 16, 2006, 12:49:52 PM
C'mon, Chicos...don't be a shill for MU.  This isn't the first time they've alienated/insulted alumni (this time a very important alum).  

And this isn't the first time they've botched PR.

In some ways, MU is a VERY screwed up institution.

And, yes, this is about more than just this one "mistake."

I'm not being a schill for the university.  I said MU made a mistake, George made a bigger one.  He's very press savvy with his position and for him to do this I find truly amazing.  Call Crean, call Cords and ask what is going on.  Don't run to the press and whine to them knowing full well they will make a big deal out of it.

I find that deploreable. 

All institutions are screwed up in some way...name ONE that isn't.  The government, non-profits, corporations, etc....they are run by human beings and will have problems.  I am still steamed about the nickname and will never let that go, but this one is a joke.

Marquette retires jerseys just as Duke, North Carolina and many others schools do.  There are I think 36 usable numbers in college basketball that I am aware of which is why you retire jerseys and not numbers.  In college hoops the number has to start with a 5 or less and any combination cannot have more than a 5 in it (  i.e. 5, 15, 51 all ok....61 not ok, 7 not ok, 18 not ok)

MU should clarify it's policy in the media guide and on it's website and should do so soon.  There is a practical answer as to why numbers are not retired and jerseys are.  It is also why so many major programs with rich traditions retire jerseys and not numbers.

George looks like a whiner and this could have been handled in a much better way. 
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: 77fan88warrior on November 16, 2006, 01:18:01 PM
PR Nightmare mentioned there was  discussion on this a few months back. Was LH listed as having 24? I remember that MU used same reasoning on jersey vs. number in that discussion. I can only assume there was discussion involving the number. There must be a reason Thompson hasn't been following and i can only assume he was pushed away from microphone. There is a reason the Dallas Cowboys have their ring of honor or whatever it is called. I can only hope that they clear this issue up for now and the future.Otherwise, we will be renaming the Al McGuire center such and court for money.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 16, 2006, 01:56:49 PM
Maybe GT WAS following along and knew when it was announced that LH would be using 24.. maybe he wanted to let a few games go first to maximize the "apparant damage" such a slight causes so he would look more justified when he raised his voice.

Reasons for doing so?  It could be as simple as looking for media attention.  Standard PR type strategy.  North Korea and Iran play these same tactics.. watch what happens when we ignore them for long enough.. they invent some issue to stir things up.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: tomahawkchop on November 16, 2006, 05:21:21 PM
PR Nightmare mentioned there was  discussion on this a few months back. Was LH listed as having 24? I remember that MU used same reasoning on jersey vs. number in that discussion. I can only assume there was discussion involving the number. There must be a reason Thompson hasn't been following and i can only assume he was pushed away from microphone. There is a reason the Dallas Cowboys have their ring of honor or whatever it is called. I can only hope that they clear this issue up for now and the future.Otherwise, we will be renaming the Al McGuire center such and court for money.

Yes, George was pushed away from the broadcast table and he has had other issues with Cords (and the university in general).  This was just the final straw, imo.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: bartmiller#1 on November 16, 2006, 07:30:43 PM
I've posted at length on this on the Scout board, so I won't rehash the whole thing-- but there are a few things I think might add to the debate:

1.  GT is one of the most revered and significant players in MU's history.  Whether it's his number or jersey that's retured, he is the first player who has received such an honor to have suffered the indignity of having his number worn AFTER it has been retired. 

Add to that the fact that MU didn't tell him this was happening-- and possibly some pre-existing bad blood between the principals-- and you have one very pissed off, high visibility alum and former player.  Could he have handled it better?  Yes.  But I have a hard time putting too much blame on him.  This honor, along with being inducted into a HOF, is the biggest honor that can be bestowed upon an athlete-- and it has to sting George quite a bit that he found out about it this way-- and that no one in Athletic Dep't called him until after he talked to the MJS. 

2.  I have a hard time swallowing the argument that GT should have called MU before he talked to the paper.  How do we know WOlfey didn't call him?  Why should he have to call-- what's he going to say, "hey Bill, you know how my number is supposed to be retired?  I heard from a friend you've got a kid wearing it this year.  Can you stop doing that?" 

The guy is already stung-- it would hurt your pride to have to pick up the phone when you're the guy who has been screwed.  Again, not saying he should have handled it how he did-- but I think his ire is understandable. 

3.   Whether Crean knew or not, he should have known, and this shouldn't have happened on his watch. 

4.   Moving forward-- I think we really need to slow down on retiring numbers.  Novak and Diener are frequently mentioned as guys who should get their numbers retired, but I don't think they should.  It should be reserved for only the most transcendent players from MU.  Wade-- yes.  Although I wish they'd wait for him to graduate.  But if you give it to a guy like Novak-- who was fantastic last year and a very important player for the program-- it opens the door too wide (IMO). 

5.   Generational issues: 

My Dad went to MU and knows George Thompson.  He is outraged about this-- absolutely pissed off.  I called him to tell him about it (he's in SF on business today) and he seriously couldn't believe it.  I can't write what he said, but he's fired up. 

Not a good PR move for MU.  The old-timers continue to shake their heads at the school for one reason or another. 

6.  Last point (if you're still reading, I'm flattered):

I don't think it's fair to expect that GT would have known this before someone told him.  First off-- many box scores (most?) don't include player numbers.  Second-- just because George played for us and was involved in the broadcast for so long-- we shouldn't assume the guy has an intimate familiarity with the team-- especially if he's been pushed away from the program. 

He might know who Hayward is-- but why would he take the time to figure out the players' numbers? 
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 16, 2006, 08:49:23 PM
Bart...all fair comments.

I would say that if the MJS called him first, then George being the PR person that he is should have told Bob that he didn't know anything about it and would need to talk to the Athletic Department.  George then picks up the phone and calls to straighten it out.  If George called the MJS, then that changes my opinion even more....hopefully he did not do that.

It's a shame it happened, I'm sure George is pissed and I think he has every reason to be from his point of view.  I don't think it was malicious in any way or intentional but it happened.  Now, if it was intentional then that is an entirely different matter but I have yet to see anything that would suggest that is the case.

Crean strikes me as someone that has made many efforts to reach out to the history of Marquette basketball and the retirement of well deserved jerseys of Tatum, Lucas and others I have no problem with.  These were great players and great programs have many numbers retired for that very reason.  Diener should be retired, if he wasn't hurt he would have ironically replaced Mr. Thompson as the all-time leading scorer in MU history.

The apology has been made, the number has been switched....can George move on and accept the apology or is he going to stew for awhile?  It seems to me by some of his comments that this goes a little deeper than this.  George no longer calls games at MU on the radio, he hasn't attended a single game this year, etc,

I hope for the sake of the MU family this one is done and buried.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 16, 2006, 08:56:32 PM
2.  I have a hard time swallowing the argument that GT should have called MU before he talked to the paper.  How do we know WOlfey didn't call him?  Why should he have to call-- what's he going to say, "hey Bill, you know how my number is supposed to be retired?  I heard from a friend you've got a kid wearing it this year.  Can you stop doing that?" 

Couple items about that .. I had thought about Wolfley calling him .. but remember, George didn't just fall off the turnip truck.  He was VP of Public Relations of a Fortune 1000 company.  He knows how to handle unwanted media attention.  -- But the story in the JS rules that out anyhow .. a friend ribbed him on Monday, his conversation with Wolfley was later.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 16, 2006, 09:42:42 PM
Just to add another tid-bit.  Took out the most recent Media guide .. 2005-06. 

In the table of contents:  "Retired Numbers ..... 149"

Here is a scan of Page 149.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: tomahawkchop on November 16, 2006, 10:26:00 PM
The apology has been made, the number has been switched....can George move on and accept the apology or is he going to stew for awhile?  It seems to me by some of his comments that this goes a little deeper than this.  George no longer calls games at MU on the radio, he hasn't attended a single game this year, etc,

I hope for the sake of the MU family this one is done and buried.


From what I was told, that "apology" from Cords was half-hearted, at best.  IMO, if Thompson had felt that MU was truly being sincere, this woudn't have ended up the big story it is now.

I guess MU got away with screwing the alumni with the dumping of the Warrior name, the Golden Eagles/Lightning choice and the "Gold" insult, but they shouldn't have messed with George Thompson.  He's a no-nonsense, no BS kind of guy (with a high BS detector).

Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 16, 2006, 11:02:10 PM
The apology has been made, the number has been switched....can George move on and accept the apology or is he going to stew for awhile?  It seems to me by some of his comments that this goes a little deeper than this.  George no longer calls games at MU on the radio, he hasn't attended a single game this year, etc,

I hope for the sake of the MU family this one is done and buried.


From what I was told, that "apology" from Cords was half-hearted, at best.  IMO, if Thompson had felt that MU was truly being sincere, this woudn't have ended up the big story it is now.

I guess MU got away with screwing the alumni with the dumping of the Warrior name, the Golden Eagles/Lightning choice and the "Gold" insult, but they shouldn't have messed with George Thompson.  He's a no-nonsense, no BS kind of guy (with a high BS detector).

Care to elaborate a bit on this?  How as it half-hearted?  Or was that how George took it?  Seems to me if it was half-hearted MU would simply read the Media Guide definition where it says jersey was retired and would not make Lazar change the number.  Instead, Lazar is changing the number and Cords did apologize. 

Do you believe Cords was behind the Gold and/or decision to drop Warriors?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 17, 2006, 07:54:28 AM
Seems to me if it was half-hearted MU would simply read the Media Guide definition where it says jersey was retired and would not make Lazar change the number.  Instead, Lazar is changing the number and Cords did apologize. 

Funny how words can be interpreted differently.  The Media Guide I posted above, in the index says "Retired Numbers" .. the top of the page says "Marquette Retired Numbers" .. the text inside opens the possibility of interpretation, when it says MU honors the best by "retiring their jersey numbers".

Personally, I read that as numbers.  If you close your right eye, it looks like they retire jerseys, though.   ;)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: spiral97 on November 17, 2006, 09:21:04 AM
the top of the page says "Marquette Retired Numbers" ..

AHHA!  So the loophole is to simply change the name of the university!! Here we come Wisconsin State!  Or University of Milwaukee!  Or Pierre College!  Lots of possibilities.. just don't count on it being the popular choice!
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: DoubleMU0609 on November 17, 2006, 09:27:40 AM
I'm pretty sure mu_hilltopper was referencing the "jersy numbers" part

.. the text inside opens the possibility of interpretation, when it says MU honors the best by "retiring their jersey numbers".
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: tomahawkchop on November 17, 2006, 09:28:39 AM
The apology has been made, the number has been switched....can George move on and accept the apology or is he going to stew for awhile?  It seems to me by some of his comments that this goes a little deeper than this.  George no longer calls games at MU on the radio, he hasn't attended a single game this year, etc,

I hope for the sake of the MU family this one is done and buried.


From what I was told, that "apology" from Cords was half-hearted, at best.  IMO, if Thompson had felt that MU was truly being sincere, this woudn't have ended up the big story it is now.

I guess MU got away with screwing the alumni with the dumping of the Warrior name, the Golden Eagles/Lightning choice and the "Gold" insult, but they shouldn't have messed with George Thompson.  He's a no-nonsense, no BS kind of guy (with a high BS detector).

Care to elaborate a bit on this?  How as it half-hearted?  Or was that how George took it?  Seems to me if it was half-hearted MU would simply read the Media Guide definition where it says jersey was retired and would not make Lazar change the number.  Instead, Lazar is changing the number and Cords did apologize. 

Do you believe Cords was behind the Gold and/or decision to drop Warriors?  Just curious.

I had some dealings with Cords around the time of the first nickname change.  He wasn't behind the change, but he was a first class wuss and made no serious attempt to lobby for keeping Warriors.  And there were times his input COULD have made a difference.

And somebody on another thread he would just shred the letter he got on the Thompson issue.  That is EXACTLY the kind of person he is and is what he will do.  Cords has a very negative view of MU alumni and their opinions mean squat to him.  He looks at us as a nuisance and nothing more (and he's far from the only one at MU with that view).

BTW, the half-hearted apology I'm talking about was the phone call, not the public statment.  This was definitely perceived as an intentional slight and from what I've heard, I tend to think there's some truth to the charge.  And, if true, Thompson had every right to fire back.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: Skarrface on November 17, 2006, 10:13:06 AM
 

  I wonder how Cords and Crean would have handled it if
  Hayward would of wanted to wear #3? I think that number
  is available. ;)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: bma725 on November 17, 2006, 11:58:27 AM
I had some dealings with Cords around the time of the first nickname change.  He wasn't behind the change, but he was a first class wuss and made no serious attempt to lobby for keeping Warriors.  And there were times his input COULD have made a difference.

Absolutely 100% incorrect.  There was nothing Cords, or anyone else could have done about the name change.  It was a DiUlio decision with minor Jesuit input.  Cords could have argued against it til he was blue in the face, he could have gone public with everything he knew and it wouldn't have mattered a bit.  There was no one tied with MU athletics at all that could have stopped it because it wasn't an athletics decision.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: mu0804 on November 17, 2006, 12:04:52 PM
The allowed numbers are single and double digits between 0 and 5 (i.e. 0, 00, 1-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, and 50-55 - this is so that the refs can use hand signals between them and the official scorer).  So yes, 32 numbers.

technically that 37, not 32
;)
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ilovefreeway on November 17, 2006, 01:25:07 PM
"This was definitely perceived as an intentional slight and from what I've heard"

So, if this is correct, the University just used a 19 year old kid, half a continent away from home, who just got done going through a difficult time with the NCAA to personally slight our all time leading scorer, yet make the kid change as soon as the problem is brought to their attention.  Me thinkith not.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: Djgoldnboy on November 17, 2006, 02:19:59 PM
It'll be interesting to see if George no shows at the player reunion game vs West Virginia this year, or if he'll be settled down by then and attend it.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2006, 04:17:49 PM
Seems to me if it was half-hearted MU would simply read the Media Guide definition where it says jersey was retired and would not make Lazar change the number.  Instead, Lazar is changing the number and Cords did apologize. 

Funny how words can be interpreted differently.  The Media Guide I posted above, in the index says "Retired Numbers" .. the top of the page says "Marquette Retired Numbers" .. the text inside opens the possibility of interpretation, when it says MU honors the best by "retiring their jersey numbers".

Personally, I read that as numbers.  If you close your right eye, it looks like they retire jerseys, though.   ;)

I read it and understood it to be retired jerseys...I think you will see in the next year media guide (probably not this year's as it might be too late to correct) that it will say retired jersey numbers and retired numbers.  Al's #77 (which was retired while I worked there) is a non eligible number and he didn't play for MU so it's a truly a retired number...albeit a number that can never exist.  Just my hunch, but expect some clarity over this in the media guide.
Title: Re: Start the Number Controversy Again, Thompson Mad, Hayward To Wear 32
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on November 17, 2006, 04:19:48 PM
Tomahawk...with all due respect I don't think Cords could have done a damn thing about the nickname change.  It was get behind it or leave.  DiUlio made the call and if Cords were to not back the President, he would have been fired.  No way a president of a university can make that level of a decision and not convey it to his direct reports with the understanding they walk in lockstep behind it, even if they don't agree.  Cords would have had no choice.