MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Benny B on February 16, 2011, 02:15:08 PM
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If you guys want to continue talking about 2010, that's fine. But I'd rather talk about the current season.
My predictions for 2011:
* Cincy isn't going to repeat their 2010 performance.
* Pujols has no desire to leave St. Louis and will sign an extension mid-season once he realizes that he has become a major distraction (yes, it will take him that long to figure this out)
* Milwaukee will do what they do best... jump out to an early division lead only to give it up in August.
* Chicago's fate rests upon which Zambrano decides to show up this year. Of course, neither Zambrano will be pitching in October (at least in a Cubs uniform),
* Houston will show flashes of greatness and be a thorn in the side of divisional opponents, but they will have the worst out-of-division record in baseball.
* Everyone on Pittsburgh's Sept 15 roster will be making under $478,000.
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Speaking of contracts...why would the Brewers pay Rickie Weeks 39 million over 4 years? I think they overpaid a little bit!
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Speaking of contracts...why would the Brewers pay Rickie Weeks 39 million over 4 years? I think they overpaid a little bit!
Disagree completely. Rickie is an absolute stud. This was a great deal.
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Disagree completely. Rickie is an absolute stud. This was a great deal.
I also thought it was pricey, but only because of Rickie's injury history. He has the potential to outperform that contract, as I think last year is a pretty good picture (i.e. was not an aberration) of what he will do consistently if he is health.
Overall, a core of Weeks, Braun, and Gallardo, and Hart, who are all now signed at least through '13 is not bad at all. Wish we had a stud up and comer to replace Prince at 1B, though.
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I also thought it was pricey, but only because of Rickie's injury history. He has the potential to outperform that contract, as I think last year is a pretty good picture (i.e. was not an aberration) of what he will do consistently if he is health.
Overall, a core of Weeks, Braun, and Gallardo, and Hart, who are all now signed at least through '13 is not bad at all. Wish we had a stud up and comer to replace Prince at 1B, though.
First base is the most replaceable position in baseball.
I am not worried.
For the record I am totally happy with what the Brewers are going to be paying Rickie. I just hope we get 2010 Rickie.
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i just hope we get 4 years of Rickie. even bad Rickie at least gets on base, so that bodes well. Im certainly glad that the 5th year is an option, but I like the length too. I'm always hesitant of long term deals to speed guys, but no way his speed should be waning by the end of this deal. So the only question is his health. I wouldn't hate it if he didn't get hit by his usual number of pitches this year - can't afford one to the elbow now that he's getting paid.
Another note I was thinking about today. That Braun deal is not only a team friendly deal, but a team defining deal. Braun isnt signed so team friendly, do we lock Rickie up to this? How about Hart or Gallardo?
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First base is the most replaceable position in baseball.
I am not worried.
For the record I am totally happy with what the Brewers are going to be paying Rickie. I just hope we get 2010 Rickie.
I really think we will, with health. He started off 2009 in the same way before the injury. His OBP has been very high consistently in his career so there is no red flag there. Although his batting average crept up from '08 and '07, his batting average on balls in play for those two years were astoundingly low, even though his slugging was pretty consistent. I take that to mean that he wasn't producing weak outs more those years, he was hitting it at people. Basically, this all means that I think he did not produce above what he is normally capable of last year. Also, he's entering into the prime of his career at 28, so there is no reason to think he wont maintain that level of play over the course of a 4-5 year contract.
Edit: Link: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/weeksri01-bat.shtml
I marveled over that Braun deal from day 1. I mean, it didn't take a swing expert, anyone with eyes could see that he could just plain hit. It looked like he was placing the ball with a tennis racket sometimes that first year and a half. I remember being surprised and incredibly happy that he signed such a reasonable long term deal. Don't get a player like that who will be happy with a contract like that too often. If we don't lock him down like that, I'm not sure we take on a slightly riskier deal like Rickie's. Maybe we'd be desperate to keep Prince if Braun doesn't sign that deal, I'm really not sure where the Brewers would be.
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First base is the most replaceable position in baseball.
I am not worried.
Which is exactly why the Cardinals would be monumentally stupid to agree to Pujols contract demands. The Brewers would need to find some power from the left-hand side of the plate, but even taking a lower level FA would be better than giving Prince some of the money that is being thrown around.
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My concern with Rickie's contract is his health. He's really only had 2 good seasons and they are pretty far apart. if we can get 2010 Rickie Weeks for the next 4 years, it'll look like a great contract. If not he's Suppan #2.
Personally I think The Brewers have the best starting 3 pitchers in the NL (yes better than the Phils) because -besides the obvious YoGa and Zach- Shaun Marcum went 13-8 with a 3.64 last year and 9-7 with a 3.38 in 2009 in the AL East. The NL Central isn't as strong of a hitting division. Marcum's numbers could be even better. Mark Rodgers has the potential to be come in and be a solid #4 pitcher for the crew.
Bettancourt is not a long term answer at shortstop.
At some point, next season or beyond, Corey Hart will move to 1st base (he has the stride to scoop Week's bad throws) if we can't keep fielder.
Other Predictions for the rest of the Central:
the Reds don't repeat their success
Pujols leaves the Cardinals, for the Royals.
Cubs finish 3rd in the division
Pirates could still be last, but their two new pitchers should raise some eyebrows
Rest of the NL:
Bryce Harper will be referred to as "a unnatural carnal knowledgeing douchebag" by at least one person on ESPN live. -the nickname will stick.
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Rest of the NL:
Bryce Harper will be referred to as "a fracking douchebag" by at least one person on ESPN live. -the nickname will stick.
You are kidding right? He looks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cool.
(http://www.toppsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Bryce-Harper.jpg)
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Deadspin posted this yesterday morning:
We're but minutes away from Albert Pujols's self-imposed deadline for signing a contract extension. This means that if the Cardinals don't come back with a whopper of a last-minute offer, it's all but inevitable that he'll sign with the Cubs in the offseason for eight years, $250 million, shatter his kneecap next May, and never be the same player again. No one wants this to happen.
Whole post is here: http://deadspin.com/#!5761968/welcome-to-albertgeddon
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I predict Marcum will be better than Greinke.
The Cubs pitching will be fine. They have good rotation who most of the year was leading the majors in quality starts without Garza (unsure where they finished):
1) Garza
2) Dempster
3) Zambrano
4) Wells
5) Cashner, Marshall, Silva, Wellemeyer, Samardzija, etc.
And decent pen:
7th) Wood
8th) Guzman
9th) Marmol
It is the offense that will make or break them.
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First base is the most replaceable position in baseball.
I am not worried.
For the record I am totally happy with what the Brewers are going to be paying Rickie. I just hope we get 2010 Rickie.
That is also the most overlooked fact in baseball.
I sincerely hope Pujols cons the Cardinals into signing him for 8 years/$250M and that Prince signs for 7y/$210M with the Cubs. If that happens, I would bat Counsell lead-off against those two as long as I could and then make him the hitting coach when he hangs up his cleats.
The Brewers could start a second tally for "Forced E-3's" on the Citgo Pump, and watch that thing light up for years to come against CHC and STL.
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That is also the most overlooked fact in baseball.
I sincerely hope Pujols cons the Cardinals into signing him for 8 years/$250M and that Prince signs for 7y/$210M with the Cubs. If that happens, I would bat Counsell lead-off against those two as long as I could and then make him the hitting coach when he hangs up his cleats.
The Brewers could start a second tally for "Forced E-3's" on the Citgo Pump, and watch that thing light up for years to come against CHC and STL.
You expect 40 year old Craig Counsell to be playing that many more years?
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That is also the most overlooked fact in baseball.
I sincerely hope Pujols cons the Cardinals into signing him for 8 years/$250M and that Prince signs for 7y/$210M with the Cubs. If that happens, I would bat Counsell lead-off against those two as long as I could and then make him the hitting coach when he hangs up his cleats.
The Brewers could start a second tally for "Forced E-3's" on the Citgo Pump, and watch that thing light up for years to come against CHC and STL.
???
What is this post supposed to mean?
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Personally I think The Brewers have the best starting 3 pitchers in the NL (yes better than the Phils)
Its good to have an early frontrunner for the Homer Comment of the Year Award.
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I don't want the facts to get in the way of Ari's good story...but lets be honest, Marcum is still young, and has the potential to do great things, but he is in no way going to give the Brewers the numbers they need to be better than the phillies 3!
ERA:
2006: 5.06
2007: 4.13
2008: 3.39
2010: 3.64
WHIP:
2006:1.596
2007:1.245
2008:1.163
2010:1.147
I am also guessing Oswalt will be able to out-duel Yovanni for the #2 spot.
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???
What is this post supposed to mean?
It was sarcasm, based on the idea that Craig Counsell is a left-handed, pull hitter who hits a lot of hard ground balls towards the first baseman. It was also me implying that Pujols & Fielder aren't going to be stocking up on Gold Gloves over the next decade.
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Pujols is a pretty good defensive player. It just gets overlooked by his offense.
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I'm a huge Brewers guy - but I'm not as convinced as others that Marcum will improve all that much since moving from the AL East. Of all starters with more than x (i cant remember exactly how many) starts, he threw a lower % of fastballs than any SP in baseball last year. I think his lack of heat lowers his ceiling a bit. Certainly doesn't knock him as a great and very smart pitcher, but I think that the lack of variety makes him a little more hittable even on good days. I still think he's a fantastic pickup, but I think his expectations are getting overinflated a bit, given what he is.
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I'm a huge Brewers guy - but I'm not as convinced as others that Marcum will improve all that much since moving from the AL East. Of all starters with more than x (i cant remember exactly how many) starts, he threw a lower % of fastballs than any SP in baseball last year. I think his lack of heat lowers his ceiling a bit. Certainly doesn't knock him as a great and very smart pitcher, but I think that the lack of variety makes him a little more hittable even on good days. I still think he's a fantastic pickup, but I think his expectations are getting overinflated a bit, given what he is.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/shaun-marcum-whip-it-good/
Interesting statistical article about what Marcum could be able to do this year. Basically, these guys have developed a formula to predict WHIP, and Marcum was predicted for another sub-1.20 WHIP season prior to being traded... and maybe that is just his ceiling, but maybe his ceiling goes up facing no DH and no Yankees/Rays lineups (to be fair, also no Orioles lineups). My favorite rosy stat, however: Take out starts vs. the Rays, Yankees, and Sox last year and his ERA was 2.74 and WHIP 1.08. I think you're right that he's not all of the sudden going to be Tim Lincecum, but the decidedly weaker NL central competition provides some built in upside (I think the Pirates improve quite a bit, but the Astros get significantly worse, so we'll call that a wash... Cubs are perhaps marginally better, Cards and Reds are the same teams as last year).
You're right, he's not an overpowering pitcher, he just throws good strikes. I don't think he becomes a Cy Young candidate by any means just by switching divisions, but I definitely think that there is strong reason to believe his stats uptick.
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I don't want the facts to get in the way of Ari's good story...but lets be honest, Marcum is still young, and has the potential to do great things, but he is in no way going to give the Brewers the numbers they need to be better than the phillies 3!
ERA:
2006: 5.06
2007: 4.13
2008: 3.39
2010: 3.64
WHIP:
2006:1.596
2007:1.245
2008:1.163
2010:1.147
I am also guessing Oswalt will be able to out-duel Yovanni for the #2 spot.
You mean Oswalt will be able to out duel Marcum for the #3 spot?
Halladay is much better than Greinke.
Cliff Lee is better than Yovanni.
Oswalt is more established and probably better than Marcum.
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Looks like Adam Wainwright is out for the year with Tommy John surgery.
Cubs and Brewers fans rejoice!
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See ya, Cards!
And then Poopholes can leave for some other squad. Even if it is the Cubs...might make them contenders for something for a while, but we all know they'll figure out a way to mess it up!
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See ya, Cards!
And then Poopholes can leave for some other squad. Even if it is the Cubs...might make them contenders for something for a while, but we all know they'll figure out a way to mess it up!
This really sucks for the Cards if he does end up needing surgery, but they'll still compete for the division.
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Looks like Adam Wainwright is out for the year with Tommy John surgery.
Cubs and Brewers fans rejoice!
I never rejoice over an injury.
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I never rejoice over an injury.
Agreed. Bad karma. Injuries happen to everyone, so don't send things going around hoping they don't come around.
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Agreed. Bad karma. Injuries happen to everyone, so don't send things going around hoping they don't come around.
Fine. I will consider this karma for the Cardinals after all the Cubs pitcher injuries. ;D
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Fine. I will consider this karma for the Cardinals after all the Cubs pitcher injuries. ;D
Those Cubs pitcher injuries were only due to karma if karma is named Dusty Baker.
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Hahahahaha well played shiloh.
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BUMP!Go Brewers.
Eat crap Cubs.
Happy Opening Day everyone ;D
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BUMP!Go Brewers.
Eat crap Cubs.
Happy Opening Day everyone ;D
Did anyone tell Greinke the season is starting already? ;D
And thank God Randy Wolf gets paid so much. Makes it much more likely he'll still be on the roster by the time they get to his bobblehead day.
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Best-case scenario for the Cubs this year is to have the Bulls and Blackhawks make deep playoff runs to distract Chicago sports fans until June.
Yes, I'm a Cubs fan. No, I don't have high hopes for this season.
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Who is this AX guy?
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Is Trevor Hoffman still around to sign?
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If there's any consolation here, the last time the Brewers blew a save on Opening Day, they went to the playoffs.
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I can't stand that starting pitchers are pulled as soon as they reach 100 pitches whether they are struggling or not. It's ridiculous. Also, one relief pitcher for each of the last three innings and pulling them even if they are doing ok. Got to love 3 hour baseball when it could have been an easy 2 and a half hour game.
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I can't stand that starting pitchers are pulled as soon as they reach 100 pitches whether they are struggling or not. It's ridiculous. Also, one relief pitcher for each of the last three innings and pulling them even if they are doing ok. Got to love 3 hour baseball when it could have been an easy 2 and a half hour game.
Bert Blyleven completely agrees with you....his biggest pet peeve is pitch count and that they should throw until "the pitcher feels tired" regardless of pitch count.
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midseason I agree with you to a large extent. this early I think its much easier for a pitcher to not feel how much he's beating up his arm until its too late. for the first month you need to protect them from themselves
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midseason I agree with you Bert Blyleven to a large extent. this early I think its much easier for a pitcher to not feel how much he's beating up his arm until its too late. for the first month you need to protect them from themselves
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BUMP!Go Brewers.
Eat crap Cubs.
Happy Opening Day everyone ;D
Ouch! Tough loss. ;D
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Opening day.
Astros may well be sold this year. Mclane wont be spending or building.
Oswalt. Berkman are gone
Starting catcher, a good hitter, and key to handling our pitchers is out for the year ...acl
starting shortstop hurt badly last week...out for at least a few months
Anyone can easily pitch around any good hitter/s in the lineup
No pitching ace, decent, but inconsistent starting pitching, ...it goes on.
We will battle all year with Pitt for last.
Until there is a team sale, new $, and new GM, stros will tread water, in mediocrity.
I hope I am wrong on every point, tho...Go 'Stros
prediction on 2011:
Reds
Brew
Cards
Cubs
Stros/
Pirates
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Ouch! Tough loss. ;D
What was that thing about throwing stones and all?
Judging from recent history, the Brewers and Cubs have only been contenders when the other has also been in the same year. As go the Brewers, so shall the Cubs (and vice versa).
So at least if the Crew does go down, we're taking the Northsiders with us. ;D
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I'm a Rockies fan first. (At opening day today! Go Rox!) But the Brewers are my second favorite team in the NL. I think they've got a good chance to win the division as long as games like yesterday don't happen too often. I think with Greinke healthy the Brewers will win the Central. Here's hoping to a Rockies and Brewers NLCS.
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The Onion....satire or the truth?
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chicago-cubs-cant-believe-theyre-doing-this-again,19870/
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Thanks.
(http://www.thebaseballcube.com/images/cards/32064.jpg)
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I love how the thread died when the Brewers started 0-4.
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I love how the thread died when the Brewers started 0-4.
Much like how all of Chicago is just dusting off those spankin' new Blackhawks jerseys they put away in storage last June ;)
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Much like how all of Chicago is just dusting off those spankin' new Blackhawks jerseys they put away in storage last June
+1
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Would you prefer we have threads here on scoop about regular season Hawks games? We can do that if you'd like.
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Would you prefer we have threads here on scoop about regular season Hawks games? We can do that if you'd like.
There really shouldn't be any blackhawks chatter:
Superbar Topics
In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.
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There really shouldn't be any blackhawks chatter:
Superbar Topics
In general, political threads are banned from this board unless pertinent to Marquette. In the past those topics have dominated the conversation and we'd like this board be home to friendly water-cooler type discussions that relate to Marquette, and the Milwaukee area.
The Blackhawks are the closest hockey team to Milwaukee.
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Hey!!! What about the Admirals???
(Are they even still around?)
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Hey!!! What about the Admirals???
(Are they even still around?)
I think they just won something or other.
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Let's get back to Casey McGehee and the way he sent the Cubs home with a series loss yesterday.
And Prince Fielder, .400 average and 11 RBI already...
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Don't forget braun's league leading 4 HRS
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We need a board called "All About Chicago" for the self important among us.
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It's too bad...by the time the Brewers play their first series down in Miller Park South in mid-June, the Cubs will probably already be out of the race.
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Yuck it up now Brewer Faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived.
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It's too bad...by the time the Brewers play their first series down in Miller Park South in mid-June, the Cubs will probably already be out of the race.
Maybe the Cubs will need to do a "Take Back Wrigley" promotion in order to get their own fans to attend games. There'd be nothing embarassing about that, right? ;)
The pissing match should be pretty weak this season since most Cubs fans are well aware that their team stinks, while most Brewers fans want to believe in their team but they're still not completely sold on them. Perhaps they're still stinging from the way the Bucks got their hopes up last season only to crash and burn this season.
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Yuck it up now Brewer Faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived.
Prince is going to look great in Yankee pinstripes next year...and Braun is still going to look like a douche in Yankee pinstripes a couple years after that.
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Yuck it up now Brewer Faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived.
I think they have a couple. Yeah, Fielder is gone next year, but we have the new pitchers for a couple of years.
BTW, I don't think Fielder goes to New York. They have Texiera. My guess is that the Cubs will strike out on Pujols and sign Fielder instead.
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Yuck it up now Brewer Faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived.
Yuck it up now Cubs faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived
- 1908 Detroit Tigers
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I think they have a couple. Yeah, Fielder is gone next year, but we have the new pitchers for a couple of years.
BTW, I don't think Fielder goes to New York. They have Texiera. My guess is that the Cubs will strike out on Pujols and sign Fielder instead.
This I don't doubt.
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Yuck it up now Cubs faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived
- 1908 Detroit Tigers
Really?
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Braun is still going to look like a douche in Yankee pinstripes a couple years after that.
Doesn't matter what team you follow, Braun is one hell of a player. Other than his affinity for Affliction Tees, there's not much to hate about the guy.
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I have Ryan Braun on my fantasy team and I wouldn't trade him straight up for anyone.
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Yuck it up now Cubs faithful, your last year of competitiveness has arrived
- 1908 Detroit Tigers
I'll never understand how a team who has never won the World Series can make fun of a team who has. The Cubs won two in their first 40 years of existence. If anything, you guys are way behind our pace.
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Doesn't matter what team you follow, Braun is one hell of a player. Other than his affinity for Affliction Tees, there's not much to hate about the guy.
I actually like a lot the players on the Brewers but Braun is not one of them. No one is doubting his abilities. I dislike him because he's an arrogant pr1ck.
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I'll never understand how a team who has never won the World Series can make fun of a team who has. The Cubs won two in their first 40 years of existence. If anything, you guys are way behind our pace.
TT, you know that's putting one helluva spin on it since there are quite a few more teams now (30) compared to the 16 in existence the last time the Cubbies won.
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I actually like a lot the players on the Brewers but Braun is not one of them. No one is doubting his abilities. I dislike him because he's an arrogant pr1ck.
That's just because he went to Miami haha.
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I actually like a lot the players on the Brewers but Braun is not one of them.
I liked Tony Gwynn Jr., and I don't mind Craig Counsell. That's about as far as I can go.
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TT, you know that's putting one helluva spin on it since there are quite a few more teams now (30) compared to the 16 in existence the last time the Cubbies won.
What if he went with this...
I'll never understand how a team who has 1 playoff appearance and 0 division titles in the last 28 years can make fun of a team who has 6 playoff appearances and 5 division titles during that time.
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TT, you know that's putting one helluva spin on it since there are quite a few more teams now (30) compared to the 16 in existence the last time the Cubbies won.
There were 24 when you guys started.
The first World Series was in 1903. It took the Cubs 4 years to win in 1907 & 1908.
Before the World Series, the highest championship was the National League Championship. The National League was created in 1876 and the Cubs won the title in 1876, 1880, 1881, 1882, 1885, and 1886.
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I do enjoy seeing all of the anti-Cubs t-shirts at Miller Park. I think it's funny you care more about making fun of the other team than supporting your own.
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I do enjoy seeing all of the anti-Cubs t-shirts at Miller Park. I think it's funny you care more about making fun of the other team than supporting your own.
as opposed to getting wasted and not even being aware of the baseball game going on?
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as opposed to getting wasted and not even being aware of the baseball game going on?
Riiiiiigggghhhtttt. That doesn't happen at Miller Park. Doing the wave must help the fans focus on the game.
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Riiiiiigggghhhtttt. That doesn't happen at Miller Park. Doing the wave must help the fans focus on the game.
I'll still take the pretense of baseball awareness any day
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That'd be better. But then I'd point to market size, team salary, and other factors to poorly back up my point. ;D
Glad it amuses you, TT. Many Brewers fans choose to wear those shirts which, I agree with you, make them look like whiny children. I am not one of them. Have plenty of Brewers shirts, hats, jerseys, training tops...no Chub hating clothes in my wardrobe, just put out through the world wide interweb since I know deep down you hate the fact your team is alway in the top 5 in payroll and have nothing to show for it.
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If you have the money spend it.
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I'll still take the pretense of baseball awareness any day
That's not happening in Miller Park either.
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It amazes me the Brewers don't have a larger payroll. I've never seen a ballpark with more advertising.
Does the ball really need to be delivered to the mound by a bat boy on a Harley? Does a Chevy need to drive across the warning track everytime the Brewers change a pitcher? Hey lets throw giant scoops of ice cream into an inflatable ice cream tub!
Where does all of this advertising money go? You should be leading the majors in payroll the way you sell everything.
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That'd be better. But then I'd point to market size, team salary, and other factors to poorly back up my point. ;D
Glad it amuses you, TT. Many Brewers fans choose to wear those shirts which, I agree with you, make them look like whiny children. I am not one of them. Have plenty of Brewers shirts, hats, jerseys, training tops...no Chub hating clothes in my wardrobe, just put out through the world wide interweb since I know deep down you hate the fact your team is alway in the top 5 in payroll and have nothing to show for it.
We've been out of the top 5 for two straight seasons now. I'd rather be in the top 5 payroll with the division titles then be hanging banners about the Wild Card.
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It amazes me the Brewers don't have a larger payroll. I've never seen a ballpark with more advertising.
Does the ball really need to be delivered to the mound by a bat boy on a Harley? Does a Chevy need to drive across the warning track everytime the Brewers change a pitcher? Hey lets throw giant scoops of ice cream into an inflatable ice cream tub!
Where does all of this advertising money go? You should be leading the majors in payroll the way you sell everything.
If I'm a Brewers fan, I would be legitimately concerned about the attendance thus far.
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It amazes me the Brewers don't have a larger payroll. I've never seen a ballpark with more advertising.
Does the ball really need to be delivered to the mound by a bat boy on a Harley? Does a Chevy need to drive across the warning track everytime the Brewers change a pitcher? Hey lets throw giant scoops of ice cream into an inflatable ice cream tub!
Where does all of this advertising money go? You should be leading the majors in payroll the way you sell everything.
Attendance is consistently poor, don't care if we have 3m tickets sold or not, and when tickets are as cheap as they are at Miller Park, which you can attest to having going to multiple games in Mke and at Wrigley, they have to make up for it somehow.
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as opposed to getting wasted and not even being aware of the caring that a baseball game is going on?
Fixed.
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On Saturday I decided to check out tickets for Sunday's game. Nearly every single section in the ballpark was available to me.
It was an 80 degree Cubs/Brewers game and I could sit wherever I wanted the day before the game.
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We've been out of the top 5 for two straight seasons now. I'd rather be in the top 5 payroll with the division titles then be hanging banners about the Wild Card.
top 8 since 2005, my mistake. Also haven't been out of the top 10 for nearly a decade.
someone is mistaken then...
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/2011
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On Saturday I decided to check out tickets for Sunday's game. Nearly every single section in the ballpark was available to me.
It was an 80 degree Cubs/Brewers game and I could sit wherever I wanted the day before the game.
stubhub?
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top 8 since 2005, my mistake. Also haven't been out of the top 10 for nearly a decade.
someone is mistaken then...
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/2011
Should never be out of the Top 10. I never understand anyone's argument about spending too much. I can imagine it sucks knowing you have no way to improve you team outside of the farm system.
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On Saturday I decided to check out tickets for Sunday's game. Nearly every single section in the ballpark was available to me.
It was an 80 degree Cubs/Brewers game and I could sit wherever I wanted the day before the game.
That's what I'm saying, the fanbase as a whole sucks. Friday was littered with empty seats. If I was still in the Milwaukee area, I'd probably be going with you to those games.
Burrow, don't try defending our fanbase. There were two completely empty sections on either side of the diamond along the field level on Friday.
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Burrow, don't try defending our fanbase. There were two completely empty sections on either side of the diamond along the field level on Friday.
I didn't see how bad it was until I got to the NYCE Club. Really, really empty. If it means anything, Brewers fans outnumbered Cubs fans 3 to 1, so you got that going for you.
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Should never be out of the Top 10. I never understand anyone's argument about spending too much. I can imagine it sucks knowing you have no way to improve you team outside of the farm system.
Not saying you spend to much, saying what you're getting for that money is crap. Look at the overpaid wastes on the Cubs. Guys like Soriano, Zambrano...they don't even deserve half of their salaries. For that payroll, you should be challenging for a division title yearly and making the NLCS regularly, not finishing 5th. That's where payrolls like the Pirates belong.
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That's what I'm saying, the fanbase as a whole sucks. Friday was littered with empty seats. If I was still in the Milwaukee area, I'd probably be going with you to those games.
Burrow, don't try defending our fanbase. There were two completely empty sections on either side of the diamond along the field level on Friday.
I think its misleading not to point out how much larger of a market the Cubs are catering to. I mean, not to make excuses, but there are lots more people with which to fill the seats. Its also really misleading that you're basing this on one game in April.
Brewers have been in the top 1/2 of NL attendance since '07, when the started posting above .500 again (6th, 6th, 7th, 8th the last 4 years, descending). The fact is that smaller markets don't have the people power to draw when the team sucks, which the Brewers did for a long time. Look at the Cleveland Indians, from 1994-2002 (the Thome, Manny, Lofton, Belle years) they were in the top 5 of AL teams in attendance every year, even hitting #1 in 1999. Outside of 2002, they won at least 86 games each season in that span. Then, they sucked pretty bad, and attendance has never recovered.... and last year they drew dead last in the AL.
The Cubs were pretty bad in 2000-2002 and their attendance dipped, too. Not so drastically, since, again, way more people, but when the team is bad the year before, less season tickets are sold, less early year attendance, etc.
Edit: Links: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/attend.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/attend.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/attend.shtml
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I understand it's hard for a team like the Brewers to draw large numbers consistently without success but I'm talking about weekend games during the nicest weekend of the year so far. With they hype that the off-season moves created, I expect to see butts in seats for the weekend games and not whole sections of the field level empty. Saying the fanbase sucks may be a bit off-base and the wrong word but it is really disappointing to see that with the relatively strong spring training performances and the buzz around a number of new signings.
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I understand it's hard for a team like the Brewers to draw large numbers consistently without success but I'm talking about weekend games during the nicest weekend of the year so far. With they hype that the off-season moves created, I expect to see butts in seats for the weekend games and not whole sections of the field level empty. Saying the fanbase sucks may be a bit off-base and the wrong word but it is really disappointing to see that with the relatively strong spring training performances and the buzz around a number of new signings.
FWIW, myself and 3 buddies bought into that hype and purchased 20 game packs. Unfortunately, two of us are still at school out of the city and couldn't go to our first 2 games. Without anyone willing to actually go scalp, it's pretty hard to offload those tickets (put different butts in our seats). I mean, our butts weren't in the seats, but the Brewers got what they wanted out of us. Maybe that hasn't happened a lot, but I remember reading that after the Greinke trade, they closed 1,500 more season ticket deals. I think that says way more about an excited fanbase than any single game attendance.
Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2010-12-22-2831093380_x.htm.
Relatedly, if anyone wants 2-4 tickets to a Brewer's game on April 26 against the Reds, let me know! I'll be about 3 days away from finals, so its not really an option to go. RF bleachers, 6th row. Not to hijack, so PM me.
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stubhub?
Brewers.com
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Brewers.com
crapty.
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I did best 2 available thinking it would be close to a sellout and it put me a few rows behind the dugout. Then I tried the seats right in front of the press box which were also available. I moved on to various club level seats and upper deck seats all of which were available.
I know on the Cubs site it removes sections of seating which are no longer available. I don't know if it's the same on the Brewers website but it appeared every section was still listed.
I was really surprised they got +37,000 on Sunday when I got tickets so easily. There must have been a huge walkup crowd.
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I understand it's hard for a team like the Brewers to draw large numbers consistently without success but I'm talking about weekend games during the nicest weekend of the year so far. With they hype that the off-season moves created, I expect to see butts in seats for the weekend games and not whole sections of the field level empty. Saying the fanbase sucks may be a bit off-base and the wrong word but it is really disappointing to see that with the relatively strong spring training performances and the buzz around a number of new signings.
April is a tough draw around here. With school still in session, it means my kids activities are still rolling, among a million other things that I have to do on most weekends, and I couldn't go to the game if I wanted to. Teh relatively low number of Cub fans is probably further evidence of that. If I wanted to, is also a big point. With the Cubs being the opponent, I am automatically out. Seems to be getting better recently, but I stopped going to Cub-Brewer games at MP a couple years ago. Simply not worth dealing with all the morons on both sides. I know many people feel the same way.
With 3M plus again this year, I'm not sure attendance is anything anyone should be complaining about.
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April is a tough draw around here. With school still in session, it means my kids activities are still rolling, among a million other things that I have to do on most weekends, and I couldn't go to the game if I wanted to. Teh relatively low number of Cub fans is probably further evidence of that. If I wanted to, is also a big point. With the Cubs being the opponent, I am automatically out. Seems to be getting better recently, but I stopped going to Cub-Brewer games at MP a couple years ago. Simply not worth dealing with all the morons on both sides. I know many people feel the same way.
With 3M plus again this year, I'm not sure attendance is anything anyone should be complaining about.
I agree with you 100%. It used to be fun going to see the Cubs play just 10 minutes from my home but now it's not worth the hassle. I don't feel like having drunk people (who know nothing about baseball and 5 years ago didn't know the Brewers existed) yell and swear and throw things at me and my family because we're wearing Cubs gear. Brewers fans somehow became Sox fans once their team became competitive - they cheer more against the Cubs than they cheer for their own team. Don't get me wrong, this type of behavior also can bring out the worst in Cubs fans. However, I've been to quite a few Cubs road games and it's nothing like you'll experience at Miller Park or The Cell. Even Cubs games in St. Louis are much more cordial. There's definitely a rivalry feel to the games (and there have been some ugly instances), but there's also a level of respect that fans have for each other. You don't get too much of that in Milwaukee.
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MANY of the Cubs fans that I have encountered at Miller Park are really obnoxious and come in there like they own the place. They are disrespectful and boorish and are not at all like the traveling fans that come in from other places like St. Louis or Minnesota (who are much nicer). I also try to avoid the Brewers-Cubs games because of the Obnoxious Cub Fan Factor. It has really, in my opinion, brought out the worst in the usually enthusiastic Brewer fans.
Yeah, we like to drink a few beers before and during the games, but the Cubs are the only team we cheer against. And it's because of the Cubs fans.
In other words, you started it.
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MANY of the Cubs fans that I have encountered at Miller Park are really obnoxious and come in there like they own the place. They are disrespectful and boorish and are not at all like the traveling fans that come in from other places like St. Louis or Minnesota (who are much nicer). I also try to avoid the Brewers-Cubs games because of the Obnoxious Cub Fan Factor. It has really, in my opinion, brought out the worst in the usually enthusiastic Brewer fans.
Yeah, we like to drink a few beers before and during the games, but the Cubs are the only team we cheer against. And it's because of the Cubs fans.
In other words, you started it.
Brewers fans hate Cubs fans because they drive up I-94 and outnumber the home fans (there's a reason people call it Wrigley North). If Pirates fans suddenly started filling up Wrigley Field and making it feel like a home game for the road team, I'm sure Cubs fans would have a lot of animosity towards the Pirates and their fans. It's all a matter of pride.
In other words, Brewers fans started it by not being as loyal as Cubs fans.
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In other words, you started it.
There was never anything to this until the Brewers became competitive. I attended a Brewers-Cubs game in 05 wearing a Garciaparra Cubs jersey shirt and nobody said a word. If I did that now, I would get profanities hurled at me constantly such as when idiots started berating my sister as she got out of my car last summer (that has Illinois plates) till she turned around and they realized she was wearing a Brewers shirt.
I will freely admit there is embarrasing and obnoxious behavior on both sides. Until I moved to Chicago, I had seen the Cubs play in Milwaukee 3 times as many times as I saw them at Wrigley, and Cubs fans have been filling Miller Park for years. Meanwhile, this rampant Cubs hate has only been going on for only a couple, with this "new" generation of fans.
Why can't we all just get along and hate the Cardinals?
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In other words, Brewers fans started it by not being as loyal as Cubs fans.
Meh, Cubs fans come up because it's the only place they can get a true summer tailgating experience close to home. It also helps that it's cheap to do.
I think it's a fun rivalry for the summer. It makes sense that the 100 quiet respectful Cubs fans don't stand out as much as the 1 slovenly drunk abusive fan.
I'd be heading down to Wrigley to watch games too if I could park near the stadium and afford the $10 cans of Miller Lite at the Cubby Bear across the street :P
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Cub fans on this board are the same guys who b*tched about how shi**y Milwaukee was for all 4 years they were at Marquette.
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http://vimeo.com/21819920
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Cub fans on this board are the same guys who b*tched about how shi**y Milwaukee was for all 4 years they were at Marquette.
I actually still live in the Milwaukee area and have really enjoyed my time here...so there goes that theory.
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http://vimeo.com/21819920
Fake, but still pretty funny.
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I actually still live in the Milwaukee area and have really enjoyed my time here...so there goes that theory.
So in your case we can generalize statements to represent an entire population, but when referencing drunk, boorish Cubs fans it's just a couple of idiots. Nice double standard.
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So in your case we can generalize statements to represent an entire population, but when referencing drunk, boorish Cubs fans it's just a couple of idiots. Nice double standard.
He didn't make reference to "drunk, boorish Cubs fans." He made reference to "Cub fans on this board."
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He didn't make reference to "drunk, boorish Cubs fans." He made reference to "Cub fans on this board."
I know that, my point is that just because YOU don't disparage Milwaukee as a city doesn't mean we can assume nobody on this board doesn't disparage Milwaukee as a city.
You're comments come across as 'my opinion is representative of all Cubs fans in Milwaukee'
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I know that, my point is that just because YOU don't disparage Milwaukee as a city doesn't mean we can assume nobody on this board doesn't disparage Milwaukee as a city.
You're comments come across as 'my opinion is representative of all Cubs fans in Milwaukee'
Paraphrasing...
ringout: Cubs fans on this board disparage Milwaukee.
MM: I am a Cubs fan on this board and I do not disparage Milwaukee.
Conclusion: Not all Cubs fans on this board disparage Milwaukee.
Therefore, ringout's initial statement was proven false.
That's all I was saying.
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Paraphrasing...
ringout: Cubs fans on this board disparage Milwaukee.
MM: I am a Cubs fan on this board and I do not disparage Milwaukee.
Conclusion: Not all Cubs fans on this board disparage Milwaukee.
Therefore, ringout's initial statement was proven false.
That's all I was saying.
MM, I am wrong about you. I am right about every other native Chicagoan. (Just kidding. Obviously I was overstating my case to make a point.) Usually, It is not a problem with alum that stay in MKE. It's more an issue with those that went back to Chicago on the afternoon they graduated because, well, you know, Milwaukee sucks.
My Dad was a native Chicagoan. I have lived in MKE area since age of 3. My Chicago cousins still ask "Don't you want to move to Chicago?" It is as if they think "My God. Who would live in MKE, if they had a choice to live in Chicago."
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MM, I am wrong about you. I am right about every other native Chicagoan. (Just kidding. Obviously I was overstating my case to make a point.) Usually, It is not a problem with alum that stay in MKE. It's more an issue with those that went back to Chicago on the afternoon they graduated because, well, you know, Milwaukee sucks.
My Dad was a native Chicagoan. I have lived in MKE area since age of 3. My Chicago cousins still ask "Don't you want to move to Chicago?" It is as if they think "My God. Who would live in MKE, if they had a choice to live in Chicago."
I get that too but it's usual from people who have never spent much time in Milwaukee and often don't leave the 5 block area surrounding their overpriced condo in downtown Chicago. I actually think Milwaukee is a great city (particularly in the summer) and gets a bad rap. Brewers fans, however, deserve the bad rap they have ;)
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I get that too but it's usual from people who have never spent much time in Milwaukee and often don't leave the 5 block area surrounding their overpriced condo in downtown Chicago. I actually think Milwaukee is a great city (particularly in the summer) and gets a bad rap. Brewers fans, however, deserve the bad rap they have ;)
As evidenced by that video that someone took the time to make, and which people find funny due to its relevance and shades of truth, I'd say that Cubs fans have more of a 'bad rap' than Brewers fans in circles larger than just Cubs/Brewers fans. Just sayin'. (Not saying you are like that, or most are like that, but if we're talking reputation... again, there is a reason that video is funny, and its because its NOT ridiculous).
Huge props for getting to actually know Milwaukee, though, MM. Common ground, we have. I also think its a great city, and I can't wait to get back there for the summer.
True to the thread title, this really is turning into a pissing match! ;)
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I get that too but it's usual from people who have never spent much time in Milwaukee and often don't leave the 5 block area surrounding their overpriced condo in downtown Chicago. I actually think Milwaukee is a great city (particularly in the summer) and gets a bad rap. Brewers fans, however, deserve the bad rap they have ;)
Except that most of the people I speak of were friends and acquaintances from my MU days. They did spend time in MKE.
I think we'll find as many moronic Brewer fans as Cub fans. Throw out the extremes of both camps.
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Except that most of the people I speak of were friends and acquaintances from my MU days. They did spend time in MKE.
I think we'll find as many moronic Brewer fans as Cub fans. Throw out the extremes of both camps.
But if we throw out the extreme Brewer fans, they'll only be 8 people at game! Unless of course the Brewers play the Cubs, then they'll be thousands of upstanding Cubs fans there to keep the Brewers out of the red.
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Someone please explain how a professional baseball player (who makes $425,000/yr with future millions of $$ in sight) can have the slightest motivation to shoplift anything, let alone <$60.00 of shirts?
Maybe my question is rhetorical, but my guess is Mike Leake has some serious personality issues (disorders) that is going to make Zach Greinke look like Peter Gibbons.
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Winona Ryder was a shoplifter too. There's the rare Jean Valjean who steals a loaf of bread to feed his family but most stealing has little to do with need.
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But if we throw out the extreme Brewer fans, they'll only be 8 people at game! Unless of course the Brewers play the Cubs, then they'll be thousands of upstanding Cubs fans there to keep the Brewers out of the red.
there will be?
I am not one to pick on minor spelling mistakes, but you literally said "they will only be 8 people at game" and "then they will be thousands of upstanding Cubs fans" Not even close.
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there will be?
I am not one to pick on minor spelling mistakes, but you literally said "they will only be 8 people at game" and "then they will be thousands of upstanding Cubs fans" Not even close.
It's OK, he's a Cubs fan. You have to be patient with them...
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120389304.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120389304.html)
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120390559.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120390559.html)
Time to talk Ryan Braun's huge extension. His old deal went through 2015. His new 5 year extension is through 2020, and the 5 year extension is worth $105 million.
Basically every brewers fan I've talked to disagrees with me on this, but I think this is a huge mistake. I love Braun (I really do, think he's one of the 5 best hitters in baseball) but I don't see what the brewers gain with this deal, to offset the franchise damaging potential risk. The extension covers Braun from 32-37 years old, and guarantees him an average of about 21mm over that span. Without even mentioning injury potential, I don't see how he lives up to that. Even as contracts continue to go up over the years, this is gigantic risk for a team that simply can't absorb it. We already had his prime years dirt cheap, and I get the whole loyalty thing. But one of the richest contracts in baseball for a 32-37 year old? There's just sooo much that can go wrong as opposed to what can go right.
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120389304.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120389304.html)
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120390559.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120390559.html)
Time to talk Ryan Braun's huge extension. His old deal went through 2015. His new 5 year extension is through 2020, and the 5 year extension is worth $105 million.
Basically every brewers fan I've talked to disagrees with me on this, but I think this is a huge mistake. I love Braun (I really do, think he's one of the 5 best hitters in baseball) but I don't see what the brewers gain with this deal, to offset the franchise damaging potential risk. The extension covers Braun from 32-37 years old, and guarantees him an average of about 21mm over that span. Without even mentioning injury potential, I don't see how he lives up to that. Even as contracts continue to go up over the years, this is gigantic risk for a team that simply can't absorb it. We already had his prime years dirt cheap, and I get the whole loyalty thing. But one of the richest contracts in baseball for a 32-37 year old? There's just sooo much that can go wrong as opposed to what can go right.
I agree, really no reason to do this with 5 years left on is contract. Could have waited at least 2 years, if not 3 or 4, to lock him up long-term. Maybe they panicked since Braun is having a pretty good start and Fielder is almost assuredly gone.
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I'd take Braun in a second to that deal.
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I doubt they panicked. I think this was in the works for awhile.
Who knows...a $21M deal could be a steal by 2020.
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Tulowitzki signed a similar deal with the Rockies after last year. I think its great foresight by the Brewers.
Braun was on a contract through 2015 that pays him peanuts compared to the numbers he's putting up. At some point, the Brewers would have needed to restructure that to keep him happy and prove that they are committed to him. This was their way of saying 'we'll pay you, but let's figure out a way that it can benefit both of us and avoid anything like a hold out or anything like that. The last thing we want to do is make you feel undervalued.'
This contract is amazing because not only did it extend him for 5 years, but it did nothing to the contract through 2015 - no restructuring of it whatsoever - he will still only make $40M from 2011-2015. As MUfan12 said to me 'when was the last time a perennial all-star, MVP type talent gave up free agency to stay in milwaukee?"
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i just don't get why we need to invest $105 million for a guy in his 30s, on the chance that he gets pissed of or feels undervalued. Its tough to feel sorry for a guy who signs a team friendly deal when it also bought out arbitration years, etc. Plus, there is a $10 million signing bonus immediately, which greatly hurts the brewers ability to do something at the trading deadline. In the most 'win-now' year milwaukee has ever had - why in the hell would you do that? At least have that thing vest at the end of the year or something.
For example, I would have rather restructured his existing deal and extended him for another 3 years, and only spent another $70 million. Thats paying him more over those three years than the current 20 million he's going to be averaging, yet saves the brewers net money. What are the odds that when he's heading into his age 35 season, the brewers would sign him to a 2 year deal worth $30 million? Very unlikely. So why is it brilliant to not touch his deal now? I understand the brewers have a lot of other commitments now, but to cite that as the reason forecloses on other similar commitments in 2018, 2019, 2020. We'll need good players then too, and probably more of them since Braun won't be near the player he is now. I just don't understand it.
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Tulowitzki signed a similar deal with the Rockies after last year. I think its great foresight by the Brewers.
Braun was on a contract through 2015 that pays him peanuts compared to the numbers he's putting up. At some point, the Brewers would have needed to restructure that to keep him happy and prove that they are committed to him. This was their way of saying 'we'll pay you, but let's figure out a way that it can benefit both of us and avoid anything like a hold out or anything like that. The last thing we want to do is make you feel undervalued.'
This contract is amazing because not only did it extend him for 5 years, but it did nothing to the contract through 2015 - no restructuring of it whatsoever - he will still only make $40M from 2011-2015. As MUfan12 said to me 'when was the last time a perennial all-star, MVP type talent gave up free agency to stay in milwaukee?"
So if the Rockies jump off a cliff, it's ok for the Brewers to do so as well? Add to that, Tulowitzki plays a premium defensive postion, Braun doesn't.
I understand there aren't a lot of guys willing to sign long-term in Milwaukee, but there was absolutely no reason to do this deal at this point in time. Wait at least a couple years. See if he stays healthy and keeps producing. He'll almost assuredly not be worth the money he's getting at the end of this deal, it's just a matter of how much he'll be overpaid. If he gets hurt of falls off steeply in his 30's, this is a deal that could be very, very damaging to the Brewers.
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Looks like Brewers fans will get to experience their own version of Alfonso Soriano in a few years.
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Looks like Brewers fans will get to experience their own version of Alfonso Soriano in a few years.
Except that Ryan Braun is 10x the player that Alfanso Soriano could ever dream to be.
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Braun is a workout freak that will always keep himself in top shape. His 1st 5 years put him in the company of a select few Hall-of Famers. If you wouldn't want to make a deal like this for Braun, then who would you ever want to do it for?
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Braun is a workout freak that will always keep himself in top shape. His 1st 5 years put him in the company of a select few Hall-of Famers. If you wouldn't want to make a deal like this for Braun, then who would you ever want to do it for?
no one, because you already had his peak years under contract, and its doubtful that the day after his age 31 season, he will command 5 years $105 million. think about how many players in the history of baseball have commanded that type of deal at that age (adjusting for the value of money) For Ryan Braun to actually be worth this money, he will have to go down as one of the top players of all time.
As I've been thinking about this all day, I think the worst part is that I can't see any team wanting to make a deal like this, given the preexisting contract conditions. Take that its the small market brewers and not just any team, and it gets more unconscionable to me by the minute.
Okay, im sorry, hijack over
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Except that Ryan Braun is 10x the player that Alfanso Soriano could ever dream to be.
Oh really?
First 4 full seasons in the Majors...
Braun: 579 G, .307, 128 HR, 420 RBI, 711 H, 397 R, 149 2B, 63 SB, 467 K, 184 BB, 3 ASG, 3 Silver Sluggers
Soriano: 615 G, .285, 123 HR, 357 RBI, 731 H, 396 R, 153 2B, 137 SB, 533 K, 123 BB, 3 ASG, 2 Silver Sluggers
I realize that they were asked to do different things considering Soriano spent a chunk of his time hitting lead-off, but I'd say those numbers are pretty similar. All I'm saying is that it's amazing what can happen to player after he reaches his 30s and the wear and tear adds up...especially when he's got a big money, long-term contract and is a bit of a head-case.
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Roids *cough*
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Oh really?
First 4 full seasons in the Majors...
Braun: 579 G, .307, 128 HR, 420 RBI, 711 H, 397 R, 149 2B, 63 SB, 467 K, 184 BB, 3 ASG, 3 Silver Sluggers
Soriano: 615 G, .285, 123 HR, 357 RBI, 731 H, 396 R, 153 2B, 137 SB, 533 K, 123 BB, 3 ASG, 2 Silver Sluggers
I realize that they were asked to do different things considering Soriano spent a chunk of his time hitting lead-off, but I'd say those numbers are pretty similar.
Braun's first full season was not 2007. This current year will be his 4th full MLB season. He was called up on May 25, 2007. He was in the minor leagues for the first 1/4 + of the 2007 MLB season. With that in mind:
Ryan Braun – 579 G; 2,316 AB; 711 H; 397 R; 149 2B; 20 3B; 128 HR; 420 RBI; 184 BB; 467 K; 63 SB; 18 CS; .307 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .924
Alfonso Soriano – 615 G; 2,560 AB; 731 H; 369 R; 153 2B; 14 3B; 118 HR; 357 RBI; 94 BB; 533 K; 137 SB; 40 CS; .285 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .821
Add in walks and strikeouts and those are two pretty big numbers. SB is a big advantage for Soriano (caught a lot more, but stole a lot more).
OPS is by far the most telling offensive statistic in baseball. Braun’s was MUCH better (although, again, not perfectly calculated, just taking the average of those 4 years for each player, which isn't what it truly is since there is a difference in number of PA between seasons and such). And again, if Braun had not been in the minors for the first 1/4 of the 2007 season and kept close to the same pace that he did for the rest of that season, you could add an extra 10 home runs, 15 runs, 40 hits, and 20 RBI (on the low end of those numbers) to his totals.
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All I'm saying is that it's amazing what can happen to player after he reaches his 30s and the wear and tear adds up...especially when he's got a big money, long-term contract and is a bit of a head-case.
Or, in Soriano's case, when he is pushing 40. That guy is 35, like I'm 17.
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Braun's first full season was not 2007. This current year will be his 4th full MLB season. He was called up on May 25, 2007. He was in the minor leagues for the first 1/4 + of the 2007 MLB season. With that in mind:
Ryan Braun – 579 G; 2,316 AB; 711 H; 397 R; 149 2B; 20 3B; 128 HR; 420 RBI; 184 BB; 467 K; 63 SB; 18 CS; .307 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .924
Alfonso Soriano – 615 G; 2,560 AB; 731 H; 369 R; 153 2B; 14 3B; 118 HR; 357 RBI; 94 BB; 533 K; 137 SB; 40 CS; .285 BA; his average OPS (would be really hard to calculate the exact number) was .821
Add in walks and strikeouts and those are two pretty big numbers. SB is a big advantage for Soriano (caught a lot more, but stole a lot more).
OPS is by far the most telling offensive statistic in baseball. Braun’s was MUCH better (although, again, not perfectly calculated, just taking the average of those 4 years for each player, which isn't what it truly is since there is a difference in number of PA between seasons and such). And again, if Braun had not been in the minors for the first 1/4 of the 2007 season and kept close to the same pace that he did for the rest of that season, you could add an extra 10 home runs, 15 runs, 40 hits, and 20 RBI (on the low end of those numbers) to his totals.
Braun's OPS was .918 compared to Soriano's .826 (baseball-reference.com will do that math for you)
That being said, I never claimed that Fonzie was better. I simply pointed out the ignorance of your comment that Braun is 10x better than Soriano could ever dream to be. Soriano had some great seasons (Braun is never going to be a 40/40 man) and put up some big numbers. Yes, he's past his prime, he's a butcher in the OF, he doesn't come across as the most likable guy and he's being vastly overpaid. I wouldn't be surprised to hear people saying the same things about Braun in 2018. Would you? In fact, you could say two of those things about Braun right now.
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This is a great deal for Milwaukee
Braun is deferring some of his salary to keep the Brewers competative.
He is a great guy to build around and have sell your franchise, and he has proven to be loyal.
"I want to stay here," Braun said. "I believe in this city. I believe in this organization.
"The more time we spend in other cities, the more we appreciate it here."
The majority of Brewer fans are rejoicing today!
Like someone else said, make room for a number 8!
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Yes, he's past his prime, he's a butcher in the OF, he doesn't come across as the most likable guy and he's being vastly overpaid. I wouldn't be surprised to hear people saying the same things about Braun in 2018. Would you? In fact, you could say two of those things about Braun right now.
I keep hearing this, and i just don't get it. The guy has been a model citizen, good with the fans, etc. I can understand why opposing teams/fans may not like him. I never liked Dave Winfield or Reggie Jackson much when they were beating the Brewers brains in either.
This contract is about back pay. The simple fact is, while he may be overpaid in the last couple years of this extension (I personally doubt that), he is going to be vastly underpaid for the next couple years, which is providing the Brewers a great opportunity to compete. Had he not signed the very club friendly extension a couple years back, Grienke and Marcum are not Brewers right now. Beyond that, the way things are shaping up now, they will have an opportunity to extend/re-sign one of those guys.
This is a great deal for the Brewers.
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I can see why Cubs fans hate this deal. Brewer fans love Braun. The Cubs fans now have to see Braun wreck havoc on them for the rest of his career.
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I keep hearing this, and i just don't get it. The guy has been a model citizen, good with the fans, etc. I can understand why opposing teams/fans may not like him. I never liked Dave Winfield or Reggie Jackson much when they were beating the Brewers brains in either.
Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.
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Speaking of Soriano, I love this from a Cub fan site relative to the trade prospects for Soriano...
These are five teams who I feel could be interested in talking to the Cubs if Soriano becomes available.
LOL. Soriano has been available for three years, as he will be for the next three. Any team in the league could offer the Cubs a bag of air, and a box of oxygen, right now, and they would take it.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/668845-mlb-trade-ideas-5-teams-who-could-consider-dealing-for-alfonso-soriano
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/668845-mlb-trade-ideas-5-teams-who-could-consider-dealing-for-alfonso-soriano)
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Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.
How exactly does he carry himself like an arrogant punk? Because Bob Brenly says so?
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Braun is an outstanding ballplayer but he carries himself like an arrogrant punk. That's why opposing teams/fans (and quite a few Brewers fans, I might add) dislike him.
And these brewer fans are idiots...... Milwaukee has needed a player with Braun's swagger for some time....and he can back it up
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How exactly does he carry himself like an arrogant punk? Because Bob Brenly says so?
Seriously?! I now question whether or not you have ever watched the guy play. If you think Brenly is the only person who believes this then Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see if anything comes up.
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Seriously?! I now question whether or not you have ever watched the guy play. If you think Brenly is the only person who believes this then Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see if anything comes up.
No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.
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No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.
Questioning Doug Melvin in the JS is one of those examples.
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FACTS
1) Braun is one of the best if not the best hitter in baseball right now
2) Braun is an arrogant punk
3) Braun sucks at fielding
Two and three don't matter because of number one.
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No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.
Also, let's not forget the Dempster and Karstens incidents.
"Once my house gets furnished, I'll go kick it on the beach in Malibu for a while and be cool. Until then, I've got nothing to say."
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No, I've seen him play hundreds of times...I am looking for your examples of how exactly he carries himself like an arrogant punk.
Well then maybe you should take off the "Brewers fan" glasses and watch him play sometime. You might be surprised at what you see.
A few examples...He struts around like he invented the game, he's a hot dog, he flips his bat away at times when he draws a walk, he has had altercations with several teams over his on-field antics, particularly his HR celebrations/trots, he talks trash on the field, and last but not least...he wears Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts.
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Also, let's not forget the Dempster and Karstens incidents.
"Once my house gets furnished, I'll go kick it on the beach in Malibu for a while and be cool. Until then, I've got nothing to say."
So he's an arrogant prick because he spoke up after a guy threw a baseball from 60'6" away at roughly 90 mph straight at his head? Whether or not the pitch brushed his helmet or his bat does not matter. The baseball was going straight at his face. Would you be happy to see that coming straight at your face? I don't know, maybe you would. If so then I guess it is weird that he spoke out. Personally, I wouldn't like it.
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So he's an arrogant prick because he spoke up after a guy threw a baseball from 60'6" away at roughly 90 mph straight at his head? Whether or not the pitch brushed his helmet or his bat does not matter. The baseball was going straight at his face. Would you be happy to see that coming straight at your face? I don't know, maybe you would. If so then I guess it is weird that he spoke out. Personally, I wouldn't like it.
Yeah, it's baseball. It happens a lot. Braun just likes to think he's above it.
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Bottom line is Braun haters would love him if he was on the team they rooted for.
What's wrong with trash talking? What's wrong with sticking up for yourself or teammates? This is professional sports, not the opera!
So he runs his mouth, big deal he's not on steroids or corked bats or betting on games...he is having fun and it truly is fun to watch
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Regardless of whether you think he's arrogant, or brings a needed swagger, or anywhere in between - he's got an attitude that's great and needed when you're winning, but could turn sour if the crew doesn't look like a contender for a few years. I love the guy, but the uncertainty of how that mentality plays out is just another reason this extension was not good for the franchise.
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Yeah, it's baseball. It happens a lot. Braun just likes to think he's above it.
Really? Teams throw at players heads "a lot" in baseball? I have to COMPLETELY disagree with you there. Hit him in the middle of the back. You don't throw at a guy's head. Never.
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Question:
If he is so hated around the league why is his jersey 14th in sales?
And the only NL Central player besides poo holes (who might not even be in the NL Central next year)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110323&content_id=17082350&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
(Edit: I can't count)
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Bottom line is Braun haters would love him if he was on the team they rooted for.
You can like a guy for his onfield performance and still hate him for being a prick.
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Question:
If he is so hated around the league why is his jersey 14th in sales?
And the only NL Central player besides poo holes (who might not even be in the NL Central next year)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110323&content_id=17082350&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
(Edit: I can't count)
LeBron is hated by fans around the NBA yet his jersey was #1 this season.
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Really? Teams throw at players heads "a lot" in baseball? I have to COMPLETELY disagree with you there. Hit him in the middle of the back. You don't throw at a guy's head. Never.
Why were they (allegedly) throwing at him to begin with? Perhaps because he had been acting like an arrogant punk.
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That's awesome!
Lebron and Braun in same company - I'll take it!
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Question:
If he is so hated around the league why is his jersey 14th in sales?
Hahahahaha 14th! Wooooo!
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Like I said....only poo holes and braun from NL Central....all others be quiet
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What a poor way to illustrate who fans like.
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How so?
If people are willing to buy the jerseys on MLB.com - which are crazy in price to begin with - doesn't that show some correlation with who true fans of the game (ones willing to spend that kind of money on a jersey) think are the best/popular?
If that's not a popularity contest - then one could assume All-star status is the other - of which Braun has started the last 3.
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Like I said....only poo holes and braun from NL Central....all others be quiet
He was a couple spots ahead of worldwide sensation Jacoby Ellsbury so it's obviously a pretty big deal. He also seems to be making ground on all-around good guy and fan favorite, Alex Rodriguez who came in at #9.
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Maybe people buy his jersey because, you know, HE IS GOOD AT BASEBALL!
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Great banner idea for Miller Park though. They can put in next to the 2008 and 1982 banners.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/untitled-4.jpg)
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Great banner idea for Miller Park though. They can put in next to the 2008 and 1982 banners.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/untitled-4.jpg)
Awesome.
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I still had these banners saved from the old pissing match. I'd argue he's number one now before you all freak out on me. Pujols will still give him a run though.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun2.jpg)
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun-1.jpg)
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I think his GM comments were totally justified.
He took a deal that was a theft for the Brewers, in part to free up cash for pitching. And Melvin blew that money on crap like Looper and Wolf. I'd be pissed too if I was stuck with a lousy manager and no pitching, essentially wasting two years of my career.
He may be arrogant, but the guy is a heck of a player. This is a good deal provided he stays healthy.
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Smells like sour grapes out there!
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Like I said, Brewers fans love him.
The fans of the other teams Cubs can go to hell. You can go around perceiving him as arrogant and a punk all you want after he embarrasses your team.
You don't start 3 All-Star games in a row if you are not widely liked around the league.
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Awesome.
You're totally right, the Brewers haven't been the most successful franchise on the field. I'm not giving up hope though. Maybe, just maybe if we stick around for another 100 years we can be as HISTORICALLY inept as the Cubs. ;D
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Smells like sour grapes out there!
How is it sour grapes? We're calling Braun an awesome baseball player. I'd say possibly the best in baseball. Is doesn't change the fact that he is an asshat.
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Is doesn't change the fact that he is an asshat.
It's not a fact. It's your opinion.
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You don't start 3 All-Star games in a row if you are not widely liked around the league.
Barry Bonds and his 14 All-Star games beg to differ.
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It's not a fact. It's your opinion.
If you can't see him as an asshat, take off your blinders.
I bet you think Travis Diener was humble as well.
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Why were they (allegedly) throwing at him to begin with? Perhaps because he had been acting like an arrogant punk.
LOL. Yeah that's it. OMG, he throws his bat after he gets walked. He gets upset when someone tries to put one in his earhole. The horror. Since you brought up Karstens, I'm sure its just coincidence that Braun homered off him in the previous AB before Karstens drilled him. Yep, they're throwing at him because he's an arrogant prick. He definitely stands out from the crowd where this stuff is concerned.
Show me him admiring more than a couple of home runs, particularly in the last year or two, and I will consider your argument. he watched one fly big time a couple years ago (against Houston I believe), was undressed by his manager, and frankly hasn't done it since. Until you can do that, I will chalk you ridiculous claims up to simple jealousy.
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If you can't see him as an asshat, take off your blinders.
I bet you think Travis Diener was humble as well.
Since when is asshat the opposite of humble?
Anyway, I loved having Diener on my team, too. I don't need to see all of my favorite players shuffling around with their heads down saying "Yes sir" and No sir" like it's the old Negro League days. I like to see guys that play with confidence.
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LOL. Yeah that's it. OMG, he throws his bat after he gets walked. He gets upset when someone tries to put one in his earhole. The horror. Since you brought up Karstens, I'm sure its just coincidence that Braun homered off him in the previous AB before Karstens drilled him. Yep, they're throwing at him because he's an arrogant prick. He definitely stands out from the crowd where this stuff is concerned.
Show me him admiring more than a couple of home runs, particularly in the last year or two, and I will consider your argument. he watched one fly big time a couple years ago (against Houston I believe), was undressed by his manager, and frankly hasn't done it since. Until you can do that, I will chalk you ridiculous claims up to simple jealousy.
First of all, I wasn't the one who brought up Karstens. Second, you, my friend, are either blind, in denial or a complete and total idiot if you don't think Braun has done much admiring of himself in the past couple years.
There's no use trying to reason with someone who is as close-minded and unreasonable as you appear to be.
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LOL. Yeah that's it. OMG, he throws his bat after he gets walked. He gets upset when someone tries to put one in his earhole. The horror. Since you brought up Karstens, I'm sure its just coincidence that Braun homered off him in the previous AB before Karstens drilled him. Yep, they're throwing at him because he's an arrogant prick. He definitely stands out from the crowd where this stuff is concerned.
Show me him admiring more than a couple of home runs, particularly in the last year or two, and I will consider your argument. he watched one fly big time a couple years ago (against Houston I believe), was undressed by his manager, and frankly hasn't done it since. Until you can do that, I will chalk you ridiculous claims up to simple jealousy.
Well he DID stare down Dumpster after absolutely RAPING a ball 2 innings after Dumpster threw at his head. I would try not to piss off Ryan Braun if I was an opposing team pitcher. But according to Bob Brenley it is COMPLETELY out of place to stare a guy down after throwing at his head, but totally fine to throw at that guy's head. Absolutely no problem with what Dumpster did, but completely wrong of Braun to stare him down following that. So Braun should be prepared to be thrown at some more and have "sore ribs" a lot more often. Stay classy, Brenley. This is your television color commentator. Exemplifies the Cubs fans perfectly.
And now all the Cubs fans will come running and crying to Brenley's defense and try to justify his comments. Find me ONE other commentator who has ever SUGGESTED throwing at a batter.
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Yea if only Braun would put his head down and circle the bases like Pujols and Soriano. Braun gets a bad rap for admiring homers when most players look at homers. I'm pretty sure on the Karstens one he didn't even admire it and that was from a series months before they threw at his head.
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First of all, I wasn't the one who brought up Karstens. Second, you, my friend, are either blind, in denial or a complete and total idiot if you don't think Braun has done much admiring of himself in the past couple years.
There's no use trying to reason with someone who is as close-minded and unreasonable as you appear to be.
One more time, lets see it. There is whole internet world out there. Clearly if it is as prevalent as you suggest, you should have no problem coming up with several examples. I'll check back often to see what you come up with.
You see the difference between you and I...I watch the Brewers on a regular basis, and draw my own conclusions. I don't base my opinions, on a couple of incidents over a four year span. Prove me wrong.
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Soriano is an arrogant asshat as well. He does the John Cena "you can't see me".
I somehow find a way to acknowledge he is arrogant. Why can't you see it with Braun?
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Soriano is an arrogant asshat as well. He does the John Cena "you can't see me".
I somehow find a way to acknowledge he is arrogant. Why can't you see it with Braun?
That's just it though, Braun doesn't do that "John Cena thing," or hop like Sammy Sosa did, or walk excruciatingly slowly toward first, admiring the ball he just hit as Bonds did, or anything like it. With rare exception, he puts his head down and rounds the bases. When he gets walked he takes his shin guard off and heads to first. When he gets hit by a pitch, he gets upset. If he hits a walk off, he celebrates it. People base their opinion of him on those rare exceptions I mentioned, most of which took place 2-3 years ago. Exceptionally talented? Yes. Confident? Absolutely. Cocky or arrogant? Not from where I'm sitting.
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With rare exception, he puts his head down and rounds the bases. When he gets walked he takes his shin guard off and heads to first.
Wow.
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For those interested, here is the ESPN article from 2 summers ago that speaks directly to Braun's confidence...and even mentions the Dempster incident:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4379572
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Wow.
Take a look...You can see a whole mess of his HR's from this season and last. Please feel free to point out the examples where I'm wrong. I will be eagerly awaiting your reply. I have the actual evidence to back up my assertions. Do you?
Yet again, we have Ryan Dempster, and Brandon Backe, and Jeff Karstens if you wish to include it, the last of which took place in the Spring of 2009. If you have more, I'd love to see it.
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13942425&topic_id=players&query=type%3Djson%26player_id%3D460075%26start%3D0%26src%3Dvpp%26sort%3Ddesc%26sort_type%3Dcustom%26hitsPerPage%3D60&c_id=mil&playerName=Ryan%20Braun (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13942425&topic_id=players&query=type%3Djson%26player_id%3D460075%26start%3D0%26src%3Dvpp%26sort%3Ddesc%26sort_type%3Dcustom%26hitsPerPage%3D60&c_id=mil&playerName=Ryan%20Braun)
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Cocky or arrogant? Not from where I'm sitting.
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Comments like this are why we can't take you seriously.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Comments like this are why we can't take you seriously.
That's a great argument.
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Take a look...You can see a whole mess of his HR's from this season and last. Please feel free to point out the examples where I'm wrong. I will be eagerly awaiting your reply. I have the actual evidence to back up my assertions. Do you?
Yet again, we have Ryan Dempster, and Brandon Backe, and Jeff Karstens if you wish to include it, the last of which took place in the Spring of 2009. If you have more, I'd love to see it.
You can't see what Braun does after he hits the ball in any of these. The camera cuts to the ball right away.
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You can't see what Braun does after he hits the ball in any of these. The camera cuts to the ball right away.
Good grief. Of course you can. You may have to wait for the replay on a couple of them, but you can absolutely see his reaction on nearly every one of them.
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Like I said, Brewers fans love him.
The fans of the other teams Cubs can go to hell. You can go around perceiving him as arrogant and a punk all you want after he embarrasses your team.
Since you specifically took at shot at the Cubs, since St. Braun joined the Brewers in 2007, the Brewers have finished above the Cubs a whopping 1 time in 4 seasons, last year, and still the Cubs were 9-6 against the Brewers in 2010. Since 2007, the Cubs are 37-26 against the Brewers. So yes, Braun is clearly embarrassing the hell out of the Cubs. Keep talking about how bad Cubs players are and bringing up 100 years of not winning a WS to feebly defend your points.
Since you brought up Karstens, I'm sure its just coincidence that Braun homered off him in the previous AB before Karstens drilled him. Yep, they're throwing at him because he's an arrogant prick.
You know who routinely smokes pitchers for HRs and doesn't get thrown at? Pujols. The only time I can remember is Harden a few years ago after Soriano got hit in the head and then when Yost had McClung throw at him back in 2007.
And for the record, I like Braun as a player. Ive gotten into arguments with friends saying you don't trade him straight up for pretty much any other position player in the league, except for maybe a healthy Mauer or Longoria.
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healthy Mauer
Now that is funny.
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That's a great argument.
There's no point in debating with someone who is as completely biased as you are. Read that ESPN article. Braun, himself, admits to being cocky yet you somehow argue otherwise.
It doesn't all have to do with HR admiring. It's the way he carries himself on the field and the way he struts around as if he's a baseball god. It rubs many fans and players the wrong way. Also, as I stated earlier when you asked for examples, he gave his bat an overexaggerated flip to the side upon drawing a walk against the Cubs...less than 2 weeks ago!
Just because he's your favorite player on your favorite team, that doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults. Two of my favorite athletes growing up were Michael Jordan and Mark Grace. Do you know who were also two of the most arrogant athletes I've ever cheered for? Michael Jordan and Mark Grace.
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Haha Michael Jordan might be the biggest a-hole of all-time in sports.
Wait no he wasn't. I can't say that because he was on a team I cheer for.
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Just because he's your favorite player on your favorite team, that doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults. Two of my favorite athletes growing up were Michael Jordan and Mark Grace. Do you know who were also two of the most arrogant athletes I've ever cheered for? Michael Jordan and Mark Grace.
So what you're saying is that you dislike Braun because he's not on your favorite team. Looks like we are in agreement then.
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There's no point in debating with someone who is as completely biased as you are. Read that ESPN article. Braun, himself, admits to being cocky yet you somehow argue otherwise.
LOL. I'm biased, and that's where this is all coming from? Whatever you say. I have presented facts and visual evidence to back up my claim. What have you offered up? Your own interpretation of things...
Why don't you go ahead and show me where in that article (which was written two years ago, BTW) that Braun "admits to being cocky." I'll save you the trouble, its not there.
Other than that, you offer your opinion/perception that he "struts around as if he's a baseball god" that "rubs many fans and players the wrong way." Well, certainly can't argue with objective facts like that. I'm convinced. Of course, how can we ignore your perception of an "over exaggerated flip to the side upon drawing a walk against the Cubs...less that two weeks ago!" Truly Braun's ego is completely out of control, because MM didn't like the way he disposed of his bat after drawing a walk.
But, my position is not valid because I'm biased. LOL! Nice try.
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So what you're saying is that you dislike Braun because he's not on your favorite team. Looks like we are in agreement then.
This isn't the argument at all. The argument is if Braun is cocky. Yes, he is.
I don't get why it's so hard to admit a player is cocky. Michael Jordan, Ryan Braun, Jim Edmonds, Manny Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, Travis Diener, Dave Bolland, are all cocky players. Most of them are on teams I cheer for.
Why can't you Brewers fans open your eyes and see everyone on your team isn't a saint? There's nothing wrong with it. Every team has them.
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(http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
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This isn't the argument at all. The argument is if Braun is cocky. Yes, he is.
I don't get why it's so hard to admit a player is cocky. Michael Jordan, Ryan Braun, Jim Edmonds, Manny Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, Travis Diener, Dave Bolland, are all cocky players. Most of them are on teams I cheer for.
Why can't you Brewers fans open your eyes and see everyone on your team isn't a saint? There's nothing wrong with it. Every team has them.
Titan - I've figured out our problem. We're trying to have a logical discussion with illogical people. I used to think Navin was a decent poster when it came to MU but it's seeming quite obvious that when it comes to the Brewers, he's a dumbass.
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Agreed.
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This isn't the argument at all. The argument is if Braun is cocky. Yes, he is.
Actually, the term first mentioned, by you BTW, is arrogant punk. I have implored both you and Tall Titan to provide some sort of factual evidence to support that claim, and you have provided none. You have provided your opinions of how he walks around, a false claim that he admitted that he was cocky, and charges against others of simply being biased. Case in point...
Titan - I've figured out our problem. We're trying to have a logical discussion with illogical people. I used to think Navin was a decent poster when it came to MU but it's seeming quite obvious that when it comes to the Brewers, he's a dumbass.
Who can argue with logic like that?
Again, waiting impatiently for any sort of objective evidence, video, audio, quote...anything beside your disapproval of him flipping his bat after drawing a walk to support your claim that Braun is an "arrogant punk."
But hey, when you can't win the argument, just call the other side names.
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Actually, the term first mentioned, by you BTW, is arrogant punk. I have implored both you and Tall Titan to provide some sort of factual evidence to support that claim, and you have provided none. You have provided your opinions of how he walks around, a false claim that he admitted that he was cocky, and charges against others of simply being biased. Case in point...
Who can argue with logic like that?
Again, waiting impatiently for any sort of objective evidence, video, audio, quote...anything beside your disapproval of him flipping his bat after drawing a walk to support your claim that Braun is an "arrogant punk."
But hey, when you can't win the argument, just call the other side names.
Since you missed it the first time...
A few examples...He struts around like he invented the game, he's a hot dog, he flips his bat away at times when he draws a walk, he has had altercations with several teams over his on-field antics, particularly his HR celebrations/trots, he talks trash on the field, and last but not least...he wears Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts.
Also, I asked that you Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see what comes up. I assume you didn't otherwise you'd see that Titan and I aren't the only ones who find this to be true.
I'm out!
Happy Easter!
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nm
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To me there's a big difference between calling someone an arrogant prick or an arrogant punk (both terms which you guys brought up) and calling someone cocky. I think it's just fine to be a bit cocky in sports, especially when you can back it up with your talent. But I don't like arrogant pricks.
I will grant that Braun can be cocky. An arrogant prick? Nope.
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My apoligies. I considered arrogant and cocky the same thing. Everytime I said cocky in past posts, please replace it with arrogant.
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Since you missed it the first time...
A few examples...He struts around like he invented the game (your opinion. Please provide some evidence of this), he's a hot dog (your opinion. Please provide some evidence of this), he flips his bat away at times when he draws a walk (your opinion. Please provide some evidence of this.), he has had altercations with several teams over his on-field antics (show me one altercation that was caused by his on-field antics), particularly his HR celebrations/trots (let's see them. I showed you plenty where he simply headed to first base, and conceded the Brandon Backe (last) one three years ago. Please show me just one.), he talks trash on the field (please provide evidence of this - anything outside of the Dempster incident, that anyone would concede he was barking, based on Dempster trying to put one in his ear hole the previous at bat,, would be great.), and last but not least...he wears Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts.
Also, I asked that you Google "Ryan Braun arrogant" and see what comes up. I assume you didn't otherwise you'd see that Titan and I aren't the only ones who find this to be true our Cub fan opinion.
Fixed (Flips mouse away to the side, and struts slowly away from keyboard, admiring his post)!
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LOL. I'm biased, and that's where this is all coming from? Whatever you say. I have presented facts and visual evidence to back up my claim. What have you offered up? Your own interpretation of things...
Why don't you go ahead and show me where in that article (which was written two years ago, BTW) that Braun "admits to being cocky." I'll save you the trouble, its not there.
From the article:
'Braun knows he walks that fine line between being confident and cocky.
"I definitely straddle that line, I do. I recognize that," the Brewers left fielder said. "My intent's never to disrespect anybody, never to show anybody up."'
Straddling requires coming down on both sides...there are times he's confident, there are times he's cocky...its not only a delicate line, but a completely objective one as well.
I do see a difference between arrogance and cockiness. I see arrogance as being undeservedly cocky. Braun to me is just the right level of cocky for what he has accomplished.
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How is Braun flipping his bat and strutting around an opinion? It happens. They are facts. Saying he is a hot dog is an opinion. The other two are not.
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Is that just an opinion or did it happen?
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I'm a Brewer fan. I know Braun is cocky. I am also a Packer fan. I know Aaron Rodgers is cocky.
And I honestly don't care.
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The caption of this photo:
Brewers leftfielder Ryan Braun flips his bat after taking a pitch for ball four.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antlers2/5627806391/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/antlers2/5627806391/in/photostream)
Based on the guys other Brewer game pictures this comment comes from a Brewer fan!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5627806391_a2cb59d4a7_o.jpg)
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I'm a Brewer fan. I know Braun is cocky. I am also a Packer fan. I know Aaron Rodgers is cocky.
And I honestly don't care.
EXACTLY! And you shouldn't care. There is nothing wrong with having a guy like that on your team. But at least admit it.
Thank you Sultan.
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The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Is that just an opinion or did it happen?
I think someone disagrees with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI)
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I think someone disagrees with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI)
Haha I was hoping someone would post this.
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And honestly, don't you think that the three goggles are a little cocky...and the screaming of "AND ONE!!!" when that opportunity arises???
That is honestly part of sports today.
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How is Braun flipping his bat and strutting around an opinion? It happens. They are facts. Saying he is a hot dog is an opinion. The other two are not.
Depends on your definition I guess. Fine. He flipped his bat. Was there intent behind it? Was it done in a way to show up the pitcher, draw attention to himself? I don't know that, and neither do you, but you are choosing to be offended by it. That's where the opinion that he's arrogant comes in.
Strutting around is a statement of fact? Saying he walks around the field would be a statement of fact, claiming that walking is "strutting around like he is a baseball god" is an obvious statement of opinion (by a Cub fan). C'mon, you're smarter than that.
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I'm a Brewer fan. I know Braun is cocky. I am also a Packer fan. I know Aaron Rodgers is cocky.
Do you consider either one of those guys arrogant punks? That's what this is about. The Cub fans among us clearly believe so, as they have said so.
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I'm a Brewer fan. I know Braun is cocky. I am also a Packer fan. I know Aaron Rodgers is cocky.
And I honestly don't care.
+1
Depends on your definition I guess. Fine. He flipped his bat. Was there intent behind it? Was it done in a way to show up the pitcher, draw attention to himself? I don't know that, and neither do you, but you are choosing to be offended by it. That's where the opinion that he's arrogant comes in.
Strutting around is a statement of fact? Saying he walks around the field would be a statement of fact, claiming that walking is "strutting around like he is a baseball god" is an obvious statement of opinion (by a Cub fan). C'mon, you're smarter than that.
Navin...what is it exactly that you are trying to prove? What position are you trying to take? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? and this is an honest question...I've been reading the entire thread and have now gotten to the point where I actually don't understand what you are trying to accomplish...
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Do you consider either one of those guys arrogant punks? That's what this is about. The Cub fans among us clearly believe so, as they have said so.
*I* don't consider them arrogant punks, but they are on my teams. If they think that way, that's their deal.
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Even as a Bears fan I found the imaginary title belt to be awesome. Definatly arrogant, but awesome. But hey he backed his crap up and took home the title.
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Do you consider either one of those guys arrogant punks? That's what this is about. The Cub fans among us clearly believe so, as they have said so.
believe it or not, there are times when I, as a Brewers fan, don't agree with everything the Cubs fans say. Similar to how Bears or Vikings fans might not always agree with what I say about their players...
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Navin...what is it exactly that you are trying to prove? What position are you trying to take? Or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? and this is an honest question...I've been reading the entire thread and have now gotten to the point where I actually don't understand what you are trying to accomplish...
I am trying to demonstrate that Ryan Braun is anything but an "arrogant punk." That they guy has a reputation (mostly among Cub fans) that he absolutely does not deserve, based on a couple of incidents. 1) He made a huge mistake after a HR against Brandon Backe in 2008, and Ned Yost tore him a new one as a result, and he hasn't done it since. 2) He took heat for the Dempster thing, fueled largely by frankly irresponsible comments by Bob Brenly who was too stupid or too Cubbed to connect the dots back to the previous AB, that would have upset any MLB hitter. 3) He took offense when Jeff Karstens drilled him intentionally back in 2009? Why, because Braun had the audacity to hit a HR off of him in his previous AB.
I have begged and pleaded all afternoon for someone to provide some sort of evidence, something, anything that exposes this obvious pattern of "arrogant punk" behavior. What I have received in return is false statements and Cub fans' opinions on him (see Dempster incident above), and one picture of him "flipping his bat" after a walk.
I stated that he puts his head down and runs to first after a HR. The response I got was, "Wow." I then was able to demonstrate the truth behind my claim by providing double digit examples of him doing just that over the past two seasons.
My point. If someone wants to make a claim that someone is an arrogant punk, they best be able to back it up.
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I don't think anyone is denying Braun is cocky. I think we are disagreeing that he is an arrogant asshat who should keep his mouth shut when people throw at his head. He's passionate and sometimes the other team views that as him showing them up I guess, but I don't think I've seen him go out of his way to show up a team outside of early in his career and Yost screamed at him for it and it doesn't seem to be an issue.
If people are talking about off the field, I have heard he is both an arrogant person and he is down to earth and was very nice when they've spoken with them. Those also aren't from team sponsored functions like an autograph session where he may just be "putting on a show" for the people there. I guess it's all about where you catch him and what mood he's in. Goodness that sounds like a human being.
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believe it or not, there are times when I, as a Brewers fan, don't agree with everything the Cubs fans say.
So...when they say something stupid and inaccurate, they shouldn't be called on it?
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So...when they say something stupid and inaccurate, they shouldn't be called on it?
they can be called on it all you want...999 times out of 1000, you aren't going to change their opinion. They'll still think Ryan Braun is an arrogant punk just like I'll still think Jay Cutler is a whiny china-doll who quit on his team.
edit: I'm not saying people shouldn't argue things like this...but you've really gone overkill on this topic...you're repeating yourself consistently and coming across as a whiny Brewers fan ...
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Braun seems to be a great guy off the field. I believe on Veterans Day he let's vets eat free at his restaurant.
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they can be called on it all you want...999 times out of 1000, you aren't going to change their opinion. They'll still think Ryan Braun is an arrogant punk just like I'll still think Jay Cutler is a whiny china-doll who quit on his team.
edit: I'm not saying people shouldn't argue things like this...but you've really gone overkill on this topic...you're repeating yourself consistently and coming across as a whiny Brewers fan ...
I dunno, not to speak for Navin, but I think that's what he was trying to do: show that its just an opinion. Braun as arrogant punk was being presented as fact, or at least that it was ridiculous to have a different opinion, but really it is an opinion based on not a ton of evidence. But a guy gets a rep, he gets a rep, I guess.
All I care about is that he seems like a great teammate. I would probably characterize him as a bit cocky on the field, but a team like the Brewers needs a little cockiness. I think "strutting around like he is a baseball god" is just a tad excessive, but yeah, he is a little cocky and I think every team needs a bit of an edge like that. Not a bad thing, again, as has been noted.
Not to re-hijack, (or unhijack) but even though I love Braun, his contract made no sense to me timing wise. I still haven't heard a good argument about why it was a good idea to extend him for 5 years 105MM when we have him under contract for 4 years. That discussion was unnecessary for another 2 years at least. I see way too much risk built into that extensive of a commitment, and am not happy with him starting in on this huge contract when he's 32.
Note, that opinion has nothing to do with my opinion of Braun; I own a Braun jersey and routinely flip my pen when I'm done writing notes ;). Still don't like the extension.
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For the record, I think Ryan Braun is a cocky baseball player. Like TT said, I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Which is why I do NOT consider him an arrogant punk/prick (I think there is a big difference between this and a cocky baseball player). I think being cocky comes with the territory. To be a star professional baseball (or any other sport) player you almost HAVE to be cocky. Where I think players become arrogant punks/pricks is when it is to a level that is noticeably different from other players of the same caliber. I truly do not believe Ryan Braun is at this level. Early on his career he was, but come on, he was young and excited to be where he was. He did not know better and knew nothing other than being "the man" because that's what he had been in baseball for his whole life. Now that he is a veteran he has learned what is within reason and what is not.
I have never seen "on field altercations" or "on field trash talk" from Ryan Braun. I may just not remember them, but I really don't remember any. I can't recall a time when he's ever been involved in any sort of scuffle between players. I have heard he is a good guy. He has a swagger about him, but he is a professional baseball player.
EDIT: Also, not that this completely makes a player cocky or not cocky, but the fact that he agreed to an 8 year, $45 million deal with the Brewers when EVERYONE knew that he could get MUCH more if he could wait to be a free agent, and the fact that he extended in MILWAUKEE, a small market, midwest team for a guy from Southern California, for 5 more years shows that he truly is not all about himself. His first contract allowed flexibility for the Brewers. He is a team player first. Not many players would do what he has done for the Brewers. The guy wants to win and he truly appreciates the Brewers fans and organization. To me, he has been a class act and a great face of the franchise.
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EDIT: Also, not that this completely makes a player cocky or not cocky, but the fact that he agreed to an 8 year, $45 million deal with the Brewers when EVERYONE knew that he could get MUCH more if he could wait to be a free agent, and the fact that he extended in MILWAUKEE, a small market, midwest team for a guy from Southern California, for 5 more years shows that he truly is not all about himself. His first contract allowed flexibility for the Brewers. He is a team player first. Not many players would do what he has done for the Brewers. The guy wants to win and he truly appreciates the Brewers fans and organization. To me, he has been a class act and a great face of the franchise.
Well said.
I came here to post that these pud whacks can think whatever the hell they want. They're wrong, plain and simple.
Getting back to the contract, they posted a graphic during the game tonight (seconds before Braun launched a three run HR, put his head down and rounded the bases). Since he made his debut on 5/25/2007, his MLB ranks are as follows:
Hits - 2nd
Runs - 2nd
Total Bases -2nd
Extra Base hits - 2nd
RBI - 6th
HR - 8th
The contract extension is good for the Brewers and good for Braun, who has been more about the Milwaukee Brewers, than he has Ryan Braun since he's been here.
You jealous Cub fans can think whatever you want about Braun, Tom Brady, or any other young, rich, good looking, gifted athlete with great hair who bangs models. When you're wrong, you're wrong.
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The contract extension is good for the Brewers and good for Braun, who has been more about the Milwaukee Brewers, than he has Ryan Braun since he's been here.
This is getting a little lovey-dovey on the whole Ryan Braun cares more about the Brewers than Ryan Braun thing. If thats true, he's stupid. He's a professional athlete who is making his livelihood off his body, and before this contract I liked to think that the Brewers would do what's right for the Brewers, not Ryan Braun.
Sure his current deal is incredibly team friendly, but I think that has more to do with he and his agent being risk averse than getting wood over Milwaukee. When that deal was signed, it bought out all of his arbitration years, and wasn't a sure thing for the Crew at the time. A great deal given all the Brewers knew at the time? Absolutely. But to assert Ryan Braun signed that for the good of the honest people of Milwaukee is horsecrap. He didn't sign that for the Brewers, he signed that because it meant he would be able to live the rest of his life off a contract that was signed VERY early into his career by baseball standards.
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But to assert Ryan Braun signed that for the good of the honest people of Milwaukee is horsecrap.
Show me one person who has made that assertion. Of course he is benefiting greatly from all of this, but so is the team. He could have gone the route Fielder is/has, which I have absolutely no problem with, and gotten paid just as much, if not more. He didn't. He took care of himself by simultaneously taking care of the the team.
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apples to oranges. Fielder didn't have the opportunity Braun did because there was huge risk his knees would have broken down by now. The same reason the Brewers are paying Braun now and not Fielder is why Fielder couldn't have gone the Braun route. (I understand that to say that Fielder couldn't do what Braun did isn't a good logical counterpoint to the idea that Braun could have done what Fielder did)
I overreacted, my bad. That came from the frustration over the idea that to bash the contract has been answered with "what do you have against Ryan Braun?" in my Brewer circles. I'm just saying that because the first team-friendly deal has been referenced by most experts as a big rationale for the rich extension (a 'good faith' type of thing) I think that when analyzing the extension, its important to keep in mind that Braun took care of Braun while Melvin took care of the Brewers in the first deal. They might have conveniently overlapped, but I don't think either side was looking out for the other. Its tough to see the extension that way though, because from a strictly fiscal standpoint, it really is irresponsible from the Brewers, in my opinion.
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Fun little anecdote from tonight's game.
Some girl in the crowd had a sign that said "Marry me Ryan" and put her cell number on it.
After the game, Braun tried to call and her voicemail was full. Awesome.
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apples to oranges. Fielder didn't have the opportunity Braun did because there was huge risk his knees would have broken down by now. The same reason the Brewers are paying Braun now and not Fielder is why Fielder couldn't have gone the Braun route.
Untrue. The Brewers already offered Fielder a $100M contract (last year I believe), that he turned down.
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but thats not even close to the same situation, either in the risk taken on by the club or in the player's "doing what's best for the team"
First, that team friendly deal that Braun has been applauded for was never offered to Fielder. The reason Braun's agent agreed to that deal was because of how early in his career it was offered and how many arbitration years it bought out.
Second, I thought that the argument was Braun was doing what's best for the team by not going the Fielder route. Then yet you're (if I'm reading you right, which I admit I may not be) arguing that Braun and Fielder were offered similar deals - which I also disagree with because Fielder's was offered only a year out from him hitting the open market and bought out only one arbitration years, and provided much more certainty as to a) what type of Fielder would be when he hit the market and b) what the market would bring for him. This as opposed to Braun's deal which projects what type of decline he will have in five years then offers him a contract assuming basically none.
edit for me being an idiot and saying no arbitration years when it would clearly be one
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FanGraphs take...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-ryan-brauns-extensions-worse-than-ryan-howards/
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FanGraphs take...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-ryan-brauns-extensions-worse-than-ryan-howards/
That "analysis" is just plain stupid as it is based on a completely faulty premise, that "they don't have to sign the guy since they already have him for two more years." While that is true, the only risk they seem to want to look at is the last couple years of the contract. What about the years in between? What about the risk of losing the guy altogether by letting him hit the open market? Hanging onto a great player comes with a price. Would Ryan Braun or Ryan Howard give up their Free Agency for significantly less (seemingly 2-3 years and $30-$50M) than what the signed, that would make those contracts "good?" Of course not. What's in it for them to do so? Some security if they have a couple of bad years I suppose, but it isn't going to happen.
I believe Albert Pujols will end up staying in StL, but his leaving is a possibility since they weren't able to lock him up when they had the chance. If he walks away, would signing him to a deal through is 32-36 year old years a couple years ago have been a bad contract? No. I realize that kind of argues the other side, that you don't have to sign him, but I also think he is a unique case, and he will sign a new deal next year before he hits the open market anyway.
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Again, I disagree and think that analysis is spot on, but I'm sounding like a broken record. I really don't understand what risk you are alluding to with Braun or Howard. He doesn't hit the open market until after 2015 - I think you're granting the temptation of free agency being 2 years away as opposed to 5 too much value.
Do you think that 3 years from now, Braun would have signed the same extension he did today if it were put in front of him? I absolutely do. But even if you don't and think it would take a little more, how much more is the uncertainty of the next three years worth? If 3 years from now, he signs a 5 year $115 million extension, I think thats a better deal for the brewers because 3 years of certainty only cost you $10 million. When it comes to a guy I'm evidently willing to pay more than $20 million/year, I'll take a $2 million/year uncertainty premium all day long.
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Here is a reason the extension works. Ryan Braun's career numbers vs. NL Central opponents:
vs. Houston: .348 BA, 1.098 OPS, 49 runs, 20 home runs, 58 RBI in 57 games
vs. St. Louis: .330 BA, .963 OPS, 40 runs, 13 home runs, 40 RBI in 56 games
vs. Chicago: .326 BA, .915 OPS, 42 runs, 10 home runs, 47 RBI in 60 games (59 started)
vs. Pittsburgh: .315 BA, .991 OPS, 55 runs, 16 home runs, 57 RBI in 59 games (58 started)
vs. Cincinnati: .267 BA, .837 OPS, 44 runs, 13 home runs, 31 RBI in 61 games (60 started)
Wow. Those are some ridiculous numbers.
That could also be why other teams/fans hate Ryan Braun. Again, I think he is cocky, but not to the point where he is an arrogant punk/prick.
And if he keeps up those numbers against NL Central teams, his extension will have been a steal.
Do you think that 3 years from now, Braun would have signed the same extension he did today if it were put in front of him? I absolutely do.
If he continues to play like he has throughout his career so far? Absolutely not. If we wait until he's going into his free agent year and he's still 1 of the top 5 players in the MLB, there is no way he signs a 5 year, $105 million deal. And I couldn't blame him for not. The Cardinals probably felt the same way about Pujols. "We don't need to extend him right now, he's played his entire career here. We can wait until he's going into his contract year and offer $100 million and we'll be set." Going into his contract year: "You want WHAT? TWO HUNDRED MILLION?! We'll talk after the season." Lock them up while you can.
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And if he keeps up those numbers against NL Central teams, his extension will have been a steal.
There are zero circumstances where an extension, that many years early, for those dollars, at those ages is a steal for any team or any player. If you think that about Braun you're a dumbass homer.
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There are zero circumstances where an extension, that many years early, for those dollars, at those ages is a steal for any team or any player. If you think that about Braun you're a dumbass homer.
Just like I would've been had I been a Cards fan and thought Pujols would just resign with us because we're the Cards and he's played here his whole life and there's no way he could be this productive by the end of his contract. Oh wait...
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So after three weeks, the Brewers, Cardinals and Reds are equally mediocre...and the Clubs slightly less so.
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So after three weeks, the Brewers, Cardinals and Reds are equally mediocre...and the Clubs slightly less so.
Yup. Good thing the Brewers still have a Cy Young winner coming back and Corey Hart. Hart is going to help more than I think most people expect. I like Carlos Gomez's speed, but Cargo should be nowhere near the top 5 in the lineup. Getting Hart into the 2 spot will be great for the offense. Then there really is no hole in the lineup in spots 1-5, and 6 and 7 are very good for being 6 and 7 hitters (Bettencort and Gomez/Morgan when he comes back).
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Yup. Good thing the Brewers still have a Cy Young winner coming back and Corey Hart. Hart is going to help more than I think most people expect. I like Carlos Gomez's speed, but Cargo should be nowhere near the top 5 in the lineup. Getting Hart into the 2 spot will be great for the offense. Then there really is no hole in the lineup in spots 1-5, and 6 and 7 are very good for being 6 and 7 hitters (Bettencort and Gomez/Morgan when he comes back).
I would put Hart 5 or 6. I keep Gomez in the second spot right now. Either he cools down and Morgan takes over, or he keeps this up. Either way and effective two slot hitter deepens this lineup a lot.
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Yup. Good thing the Brewers still have a Cy Young winner coming back and Corey Hart. Hart is going to help more than I think most people expect. I like Carlos Gomez's speed, but Cargo should be nowhere near the top 5 in the lineup. Getting Hart into the 2 spot will be great for the offense. Then there really is no hole in the lineup in spots 1-5, and 6 and 7 are very good for being 6 and 7 hitters (Bettencort and Gomez/Morgan when he comes back).
I agree with the general sentiment, but Betancourt is not a good hitter at any spot in the lineup. Honestly, he's been a godawful offensive player his entire career. If Gomez wasn't 25 and having come off a pretty good week where he's had a lot of nice at bats, and looks to have toned down that stupid uppercut swing (I like to hold out hope for him), I'd say the same for him. Guys that consistently produce sub .300 OBP's are just producing way too many outs to provide much value offensively.
Obviously, getting Greinke and Hart back is going to be huge. Right now Braun and Fielder is the best 3-4 in the game, and Hart should give them even more opportunities to drive in runs. Greinke is slotting into an already solid rotation. So happy that Wolf and Narveson have stepped up and let him come back without feeling like he has to press. I'm also been very happy with Lucroy's play since he's been back. Looks like he's getting much more comfortable hitting major league pitching, which I'm very excited about. If he can hit .270 and take some walks down at the bottom of the order, which he looks capable of, he's going to provide value down there that the Brewers haven't had in years.
I think Hart strikes out too much as a 2 hitter, but he takes more walks than he used to so maybe I'm wrong. And, I have to believe that hitting in front of Braun and Prince is probably the best protection a guy can have. In my dream world, Gomez reins it in, or Morgan has a come back year and eats up those 2 at bats, and Hart slides back behind McGehee. That's a really fast, aggressive 1-2, and then a power hitting 3-6 that doesn't give up average anywhere except potentially Hart. Betancourt can afford to suck if that's the top of the lineup.
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I would put Hart 5 or 6. I keep Gomez in the second spot right now. Either he cools down and Morgan takes over, or he keeps this up. Either way and effective two slot hitter deepens this lineup a lot.
From Webster's Dictionary:
Carlos Gomez (KAR-lows GO-mez): one who, when he/she is on the verge of being demoted, does just enough to get taken off that list, but once off the list, becomes mediocre until he/she is back on the list.
Nyjer isn't going to hit >.350 all year, but I see his presence and gameplay as an inspiration to the rest of the team. Who doesn't want to see
Corey needs to bat behind Casey until he finds his groove... how many times have Prince and Casey been LOB this year so far? At least two games have been left on the table because the Brewers' 6-hole couldn't deliver. You could have moved Lucroy to 6, but then 7-8-9 would have been a deadzone.
Either way you slice it, Corey Hart - if he returns to his productive form - is going to be a major boon to the lineup no matter where he goes. I'm sure DM already has his sights set on SS candidates at the trade deadline.
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I think it'll be interesting to see if once Hart comes back and bats 6 behind McGehee, you see Lucroy get bumped to 7 and Betancourt drop to 8. Having Betancourt ahead of Lucroy is fine now, since McGehee/Kotsay doesn't really have the speed necessary to make Lucroy's singles that much more valuable run scoring-wise than Yuniesky's violent flailing. But when Hart comes in and provides 20+ steal speed, Lucroy's aptitude with the bat (which for average is clearly trending higher than Betancourt's) might enable the manufacturing of some runs at the tail end of that lineup. (which, with Betancourt hanging around, I would take a manufactured run every other or every third game out of the 7-8-9 all day)
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Make no mistake, Hart will come back and be batting second immediately.
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Make no mistake, Hart will come back and be batting second immediately.
Don't be so sure. That's where I'd put him, but RR may start him out in the 6 hole until he heats up and Gomez cools off. Hart has pretty much struggled at AAA.
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And of course Hart is batting 6th. In my face.
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And of course Hart is batting 6th. In my face.
Had Corey banged out a hit last night, he might not have been in the 6-spot today; nevertheless, the answer to a free-swinger who chases sliders outside the zone on strike three with RISP in the 2-hole is not another free-swinger who chases sliders outside the zone on strike three with RISP.
Although, I can't remember the last time Corey Hart looked like both the old Corey Hart and the All-Star Corey Hart in the same game before. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf.
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So...is it time for Sveum to go? This team has been terrible at the plate for the last two years.
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It's time for Melvin to go. Has had the resources the last few years and we've regressed....also firing Yost three weeks out to hire Dale Sveum was utterly classless and useless.
Yost may not be a tactical master but he inspired the guys, had crew 11 games over .500 at all-star break before they got Sabathia.
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It's time for Melvin to go. Has had the resources the last few years and we've regressed....also firing Yost three weeks out to hire Dale Sveum was utterly classless and useless.
Yost may not be a tactical master but he inspired the guys, had crew 11 games over .500 at all-star break before they got Sabathia.
What "resources" did he have a few years ago? And how far did we really regress? Let's be honest, we're the Brewers. Hovering around .500 for an entire season is GOOD for us. We have had two winning seasons in how long? 1 playoff appearance in how long? Melvin has put together a team that can compete. We will be fine this year. We are not going to finish in 2nd last place in the NL Central. We may not win it, but we will be right there in the end.
And PLEASE tell me you were joking about not should have fired Yost. Yost was the worst manager I have ever seen at bullpen management. Absolutely horrible. Had no clue when his pitcher had lost it. Also when he would give somebody a day off he would not move the lineup, he'd just plug the guy into the lineup where that guy was. That makes no sense if you're #2 hitter is sitting and the guy replacing him is batting .198. And "inspired the guys"...really?! We were 80-56 going into the series with the Mets on September 1. We were battling with the Mets for the Wild Card, and we get swept in that series, and go 3-11 from the start of that series to the end of the Phillies series when we got swept by them. That is about as uninspired of baseball as you will find, especially considering we were playing to get into the playoffs for the 1st time in 26 years.
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And PLEASE tell me you were joking about not should have fired Yost. Yost was the worst manager I have ever seen at bullpen management. Absolutely horrible. Had no clue when his pitcher had lost it. Also when he would give somebody a day off he would not move the lineup, he'd just plug the guy into the lineup where that guy was. That makes no sense if you're #2 hitter is sitting and the guy replacing him is batting .198.
Sounds a lot like Roenicke. Except he's not a prick about it like Yost was.
Melvin has to go. You can only draft power hitters and shuffle them around the field for so long. The result is this year's team- Nobody gets on base and the defense is horrendous.
This team needs more guys that are decent defensively and can hit for average. Kinda like Cirillo and Loretta were in the 90s. But Melvin is too infatuated with power to do it.
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Sounds a lot like Roenicke. Except he's not a prick about it like Yost was.
Melvin has to go. You can only draft power hitters and shuffle them around the field for so long. The result is this year's team- Nobody gets on base and the defense is horrendous.
This team needs more guys that are decent defensively and can hit for average. Kinda like Cirillo and Loretta were in the 90s. But Melvin is too infatuated with power to do it.
Those are both good points. I think Roenicke will grow on me. The thing with Roenicke is he's changing the way we play as a team. He is trying to be more aggressive on the basepaths and whatnot and that is not what this group of players ever has been. So it is ugly at times right now. He has also had to deal with quite a few injuries. I am definitely not pleased with the performance so far, but I think we will improve and I think Roenicke will be a good manager in time.
Good point about Melvin being too obsessed with power hitting and nothing more. He brought us back to relevance but now he has to change the way he approaches things to improve even more.
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Is it me or do the Cardinals players and fans just hate whatever team they are competing with for the division and consider that team the "least classy, most hatable" team in the MLB? I remember in 08 they hated the Brewers and hated that Braun watched his home runs, that Cameron and the outfield untucked their jersey (something Cameron, who is widely known as one of the most classy players in the MLB, does as a tribute for the hard work that his dad did to give him the opportunity to be where he is today), and just hated the Brewers in general. Then last year it was the Reds, getting into the brawl where guys were pushed up into the netting behind home plate (I realize that Brandon Philips set it up by running his mouth about them and then still tapping Molina before his first AB). And this year again, with the Reds, because they hit Pujols. Do people honestly, TRULY believe that Cordero was TRYING to hit Pujols with an 0-2 count, up by 2 runs with a guy on 1st and Matt Holiday on deck? You want to put a struggling hitter on first as the tying run and bring up a HOT hitter as the winning run, especially with an 0-2 count? Foolish. And these guys are just Saints. Pujols would NEVER watch a home run! Please. Yadier is so classy, he would NEVER get thrown out of a game and then strip down on the field, throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old! C'mon. Why is it ALWAYS the Cardinals and then whatever other top-of-the-division team that get into it with each other all year. Every single year. It's not "Cardinals-Cubs rivalry" or "Cardinals-Reds rivalry." It's always "Cardinals-team-that's-beating-them-down-in-the-division rivalry." If the Pirates were in first I would bet my life on the fact that the Cardinals would suddenly hate them and get into at least 2 brawls with them in a year. It's ridiculous. The Cardinals have easily overtaken the Cubs as my least favorite team in baseball (I suppose it helps that the Cubs are an absolute joke and have been for the last couple of years, so there is really nothing to be concerned about with them...sorry, had to get that in there at least once ;) ).
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Finally something that Cubs and Brewers fans can agree on: The Cardinals are punks. They also got into it several times with the Cubs from 2003-2008, i.e. the years the Cubs won 3 division titles over StL. It all comes down from the manager.
FYI, wadesworld, in 2009-2010 combined - when the Cubs were "an absolute joke" - they finished with a better record than the Brewers...Cubs 158-165, Brewers 157-167. So take that! ;D
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FYI, wadesworld, in 2009-2010 combined - when the Cubs were "an absolute joke" - they finished with a better record than the Brewers...Cubs 158-165, Brewers 157-167. So take that! ;D
Yeah yeah yeah. You were never really a threat in those 2 years. This year the Brewers are starting to come around and play some good baseball after finally getting healthy. If we can keep the good health (still some bullpen pitchers and roll players missing) there is absolutely no reason to think the Brewers will not be in the playoff hunt until the end. And if they can get in you have to expect that Greinke and Gallardo are going to come around. Greinke's 26-2 strikeout to walk ratio is nice for the year so far, but his 6.50 almost ERA is not. Yo has to learn to pitch to contact more and let his defense do some work. Marcum is quite possibly the most underrated pitcher in the MLB. If the first two can get going, and Marcum keeps going, this team could beat any in a 7 game series.
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Is it me or do the Cardinals players and fans just hate whatever team they are competing with for the division and consider that team the "least classy, most hatable" team in the MLB? I remember in 08 they hated the Brewers and hated that Braun watched his home runs, that Cameron and the outfield untucked their jersey (something Cameron, who is widely known as one of the most classy players in the MLB, does as a tribute for the hard work that his dad did to give him the opportunity to be where he is today), and just hated the Brewers in general. Then last year it was the Reds, getting into the brawl where guys were pushed up into the netting behind home plate (I realize that Brandon Philips set it up by running his mouth about them and then still tapping Molina before his first AB). And this year again, with the Reds, because they hit Pujols. Do people honestly, TRULY believe that Cordero was TRYING to hit Pujols with an 0-2 count, up by 2 runs with a guy on 1st and Matt Holiday on deck? You want to put a struggling hitter on first as the tying run and bring up a HOT hitter as the winning run, especially with an 0-2 count? Foolish. And these guys are just Saints. Pujols would NEVER watch a home run! Please. Yadier is so classy, he would NEVER get thrown out of a game and then strip down on the field, throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old! C'mon. Why is it ALWAYS the Cardinals and then whatever other top-of-the-division team that get into it with each other all year. Every single year. It's not "Cardinals-Cubs rivalry" or "Cardinals-Reds rivalry." It's always "Cardinals-team-that's-beating-them-down-in-the-division rivalry." If the Pirates were in first I would bet my life on the fact that the Cardinals would suddenly hate them and get into at least 2 brawls with them in a year. It's ridiculous. The Cardinals have easily overtaken the Cubs as my least favorite team in baseball (I suppose it helps that the Cubs are an absolute joke and have been for the last couple of years, so there is really nothing to be concerned about with them...sorry, had to get that in there at least once ;) ).
3 words for this: Tony La Russa
I do like his daughter tho
(http://elliottharris.com/blogs/media/blogs/a/biancalarussa.jpg)
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Is it me or do the Cardinals players and fans just hate whatever team they are competing with for the division and consider that team the "least classy, most hatable" team in the MLB? I remember in 08 they hated the Brewers and hated that Braun watched his home runs, that Cameron and the outfield untucked their jersey (something Cameron, who is widely known as one of the most classy players in the MLB, does as a tribute for the hard work that his dad did to give him the opportunity to be where he is today), and just hated the Brewers in general. Then last year it was the Reds, getting into the brawl where guys were pushed up into the netting behind home plate (I realize that Brandon Philips set it up by running his mouth about them and then still tapping Molina before his first AB). And this year again, with the Reds, because they hit Pujols. Do people honestly, TRULY believe that Cordero was TRYING to hit Pujols with an 0-2 count, up by 2 runs with a guy on 1st and Matt Holiday on deck? You want to put a struggling hitter on first as the tying run and bring up a HOT hitter as the winning run, especially with an 0-2 count? Foolish. And these guys are just Saints. Pujols would NEVER watch a home run! Please. Yadier is so classy, he would NEVER get thrown out of a game and then strip down on the field, throwing a temper tantrum like a 5 year old! C'mon. Why is it ALWAYS the Cardinals and then whatever other top-of-the-division team that get into it with each other all year. Every single year. It's not "Cardinals-Cubs rivalry" or "Cardinals-Reds rivalry." It's always "Cardinals-team-that's-beating-them-down-in-the-division rivalry." If the Pirates were in first I would bet my life on the fact that the Cardinals would suddenly hate them and get into at least 2 brawls with them in a year. It's ridiculous. The Cardinals have easily overtaken the Cubs as my least favorite team in baseball (I suppose it helps that the Cubs are an absolute joke and have been for the last couple of years, so there is really nothing to be concerned about with them...sorry, had to get that in there at least once ;) ).
Karma is spelled S-H-I-N-G-L-E-S:
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/7/92/e35/792e358a-79ec-11e0-a793-0019bb30f31a-revisions/4dc75f7b963ad.image.jpg)
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(something Cameron, who is widely known as one of the most classy players in the MLB
LOL. The dude who once said he could have hit 5 homers but chose not to out of respect for the game? Or maybe the guy who I saw twice, in two different games, taunt kids, not drunken idiots, kids in center field at Wrigley.
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LOL. The dude who once said he could have hit 5 homers but chose not to out of respect for the game? Or maybe the guy who I saw twice, in two different games, taunt kids, not drunken idiots, kids in center field at Wrigley.
In his defense, who wouldn't taunt kids at Wrigley?
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LOL. The dude who once said he could have hit 5 homers but chose not to out of respect for the game? Or maybe the guy who I saw twice, in two different games, taunt kids, not drunken idiots, kids in center field at Wrigley.
Don't forget the suspension for failing a 2nd test for banned substances.
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LOL. The dude who once said he could have hit 5 homers but chose not to out of respect for the game? Or maybe the guy who I saw twice, in two different games, taunt kids, not drunken idiots, kids in center field at Wrigley.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p3jsCkyrSMM/TUBXxa96xSI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/IdZJGGhgqxM/s1600/thinkofthechildren.jpg)
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Meanwhile, "Where's Bernie" promotion has problems.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/122506259.html
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World Series titles (10)
2006 • 1982 • 1967 • 1964
1946 • 1944 • 1942 • 1934
1931 • 1926
NL Pennants (17)
2006 • 2004 • 1987 • 1985
1982 • 1968 • 1967 • 1964
1946• 1944 • 1943 • 1942
1934 • 1931 • 1930 • 1928
1926
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Don't forget the suspension for failing a 2nd test for banned substances.
Greenies, boo hoo. All of the players in the 70-80's were on them.
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World Series titles (10)
2006 1982 1967 1964
1946 1944 1942 1934
1931 1926
NL Pennants (17)
2006 2004 1987 1985
1982 1968 1967 1964
1946 1944 1943 1942
1934 1931 1930 1928
1926
Yeah, but none of that changes the fact that LaRussa is a douche.
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Define hypocrite:
Greenies, boo hoo. All of the players in the 70-80's were on them.
D-Rose is a cheat.
His hands are as dirty as Calipari's.
So, it's fine for Cameron to break the rules because guys in the 70's and 80's were on them, but it's just terrible for DRose to cheat on a standardized test? Good to see your fandom hasn't blinded you at all.
I see that you missed the point.
As has been said though, your fandom blinds you to past transgressions
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Define hypocrite:
So, it's fine for Cameron to break the rules because guys in the 70's and 80's were on them, but it's just terrible for DRose to cheat on a standardized test? Good to see your fandom hasn't blinded you at all.
Actually Hards is not a hypocrite. He is not the one that doing something contradictory to his own beliefs.
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Actually Hards is not a hypocrite. He is not the one that doing something contradictory to his own beliefs.
I don't think you necessarily need to be the one doing the action that goes against what you have previously stated. Taking a completely opposite position of one previously stated would also make you a hypocrite, at least that's what I always thought.
Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrite)
hyp·o·crite
–noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite)
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I never defended him, just that the behavior was commonplace in the 70-80s, Jmayer1.
I never said it was fine to do the greenies.
reading comprehension.
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I never defended him, just that the behavior was commonplace in the 70-80s, Jmayer1.
I never said it was fine to do the greenies.
reading comprehension.
??? What was the point of bringing up that everyone was doing them in the 70's-80's if you werent' defending him. Perhaps you need to write more clearly so that you point comes across.
Please also define your use of the term "boo hoo" as well then, since I obviously can't comprehend what that means either. Typically that would be slang for mock crying or sobbing which would indicate that somebody is bringing up something that you feel isn't a big deal or people are whining about nothing. Of course, that can't be the case, since that would mean you were defending the action and you clearly won't.
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greenies weren't banned by MLB until 2006, not even sure they should have been.
Increasing testosterone is in a different stratosphere, adjusting hormones to change emotional and physical body composition and increase muscle growth changes a person's natural composition.
That's different than stimulating your congenital central nervous system like people do frequently throughout a day with coffee, chocolate and other products.
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??? What was the point of bringing up that everyone was doing them in the 70's-80's if you werent' defending him. Perhaps you need to write more clearly so that you point comes across.
Please also define your use of the term "boo hoo" as well then, since I obviously can't comprehend what that means either. Typically that would be slang for mock crying or sobbing which would indicate that somebody is bringing up something that you feel isn't a big deal or people are whining about nothing. Of course, that can't be the case, since that would mean you were defending the action and you clearly won't.
Boo hoo, like people are crying about it. Said mockingly as if no one else did greenies.
You know, exactly what I said last post.
I never in anyway passed judgement. I never said he wasn't a cheater. But if you really want to get into it, at least Cameron got some punishment for his cheating.
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Since I never really have an opportunity or reason to post in the 'Scoop's longest thread, I figured I'd take the occasion of last weekend's sweep of the Reds to pop in here and say, Go Tribe!
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http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/04/sports/sp-mariners04
You're really using that as evidence that he ISN'T classy? Wow, very interesting, considering the opposing team's manager is quoted saying it was a sign of his class. Very interesting point there.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/42781952.html
"All of us were definitely feeling it," Giants pitcher Matt Cain said. "Cameron was definitely feeling it, too. He's got a big heart. We've always known that about him. I'm sure he's just as worried about it as we are."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/95741-milwaukee-brewers-in-the-news-dec-22
So because he chose NOT to swing away at a 3-0 count up 15-3 with already 4 home runs on the day he is NOT classy. Interesting. And because he got caught doing illegal drugs. Definitely automatically classless. Get a clue before you go and say dumb stuff like that. Again, he is WIDELY KNOWN as one of the most classy players in baseball.
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Since I never really have an opportunity or reason to post in the 'Scoop's longest thread, I figured I'd take the occasion of last weekend's sweep of the Reds to pop in here and say, Go Tribe!
Agreed on that. They are a fun team. Should be interesting to see if they can keep going.
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Boo hoo, like people are crying about it. Said mockingly as if no one else did greenies.
You know, exactly what I said last post.
I never in anyway passed judgement. I never said he wasn't a cheater. But if you really want to get into it, at least Cameron got some punishment for his cheating.
Again, what does the fact that anybody else did greenies (when they were legal) have to do with Cameron if you aren't defending him? Clue: nothing, there is no reason to bring that up unless you are trying to defend Cameron's actions.
If I said "Boo hoo, JR Rider cheated in school too" in response to your DRose post, I don't possibly know how that could not be construed as defending him.
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http://articles.latimes.com/2002/may/04/sports/sp-mariners04
You're really using that as evidence that he ISN'T classy? Wow, very interesting, considering the opposing team's manager is quoted saying it was a sign of his class. Very interesting point there.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/42781952.html
"All of us were definitely feeling it," Giants pitcher Matt Cain said. "Cameron was definitely feeling it, too. He's got a big heart. We've always known that about him. I'm sure he's just as worried about it as we are."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/95741-milwaukee-brewers-in-the-news-dec-22
So because he chose NOT to swing away at a 3-0 count up 15-3 with already 4 home runs on the day he is NOT classy. Interesting. And because he got caught doing illegal drugs. Definitely automatically classless. Get a clue before you go and say dumb stuff like that. Again, he is WIDELY KNOWN as one of the most classy players in baseball.
Its one thing to do it, its another thing to chirp about it. And the article said "age-old practice", basically he did what everyone else does, or is "supposed to".
And really, a blog from the Journal Sentinel about him feeling bad about lining a ball off another player's head?
I never said he was one of the games bad guys, but you are stretching here. By posting items that make him similar to almost every other player in the league, that is far from WIDELY KNOWN. I follow alot of baseball and have never heard him mentioned as such. Sorry if I'm not bowing to the Bleacher Report as the end all be all source.
You act like his classiness is well known as Ichiro's hitting prowess or A-Rod's petulance.
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Its one thing to do it, its another thing to chirp about it. And the article said "age-old practice", basically he did what everyone else does, or is "supposed to".
And really, a blog from the Journal Sentinel about him feeling bad about lining a ball off another player's head?
I never said he was one of the games bad guys, but you are stretching here. By posting items that make him similar to almost every other player in the league, that is far from WIDELY KNOWN. I follow alot of baseball and have never heard him mentioned as such. Sorry if I'm not bowing to the Bleacher Report as the end all be all source.
You act like his classiness is well known as Ichiro's hitting prowess or A-Rod's petulance.
Yes, you are supposed to do it. But when you have hit 4 home runs already in a game and that ties the record, and you face a 3-0 count and are getting a fastball down the middle with the chance to hold the record for yourself, how many players would let that pitch go? Let's be honest here. Not many. You can feel what you want. I'll take the opposing team manager's opinion over yours.
Also, you're missing the part of the quote that Cain says "He's got a big heart. We've always known that about him." Do you see that said about a lot of players in the MLB? Saying they've always known it about him has nothing to do with his reaction to hitting a pitcher with a liner. I personally don't see many players saying they know another player has a big heart very often, but maybe I'm wrong. Again, I will take the opinion of an opposing team player over yours.
It is widely known. Color commentators mention it all the time about him. He is a classy guy and people around the league talk about it and know it.
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Agreed on that. They are a fun team. Should be interesting to see if they can keep going.
I've "only" lived in Cleveland for 20 years, but that's long enough to make me somewhat of a pessimist when it comes to professional sports. I'm really enjoying the season, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I'm dreading the inevitable day when we're 6 games out and I finally realize that the wheels are completely and irretrievably off. I really, really hope I'm wrong about that. I'm happy that they've done this well in spite of some injuries and hardships. It's been a fun summer so far, and I'll enjoy it as long as I can. My 14-year-old son is really enjoying it. I'm hoping it can be something that we can enjoy together and look back on as a really fun summer of baseball.
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Since I never really have an opportunity or reason to post in the 'Scoop's longest thread, I figured I'd take the occasion of last weekend's sweep of the Reds to pop in here and say, Go Tribe!
EDIT....forgot the topic.
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Five game win streak baby! Lets keep chasing down those evil Red Birds.
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Five game win streak baby! Lets keep chasing down those evil Red Birds.
Those evil Red Birds have won 8 of 9 ;)
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It is widely known. Color commentators mention it all the time about him. He is a classy guy and people around the league talk about it and know it.
I'll back up wadesworld on this, as it is routinely talked about by those who've been around him. He is widely considered one of the true good guys in the sport.
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Those evil Red Birds have won 8 of 9 ;)
That just means they are due for a slide ;) Besides, with the MLB version of Al Davis managing right now, it has to become a distraction at some point.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/526101/AlDavis1.jpg)
(http://www.cinawesome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Tony-La-Russa-has-shingles.jpg)
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I feel like this needs to be pointed out:
in the NL marcum is: tied for 7th in era
2nd best winning % as a starter this year (He's 6-1, only Jamie Garcia is better 5-0)
10th in Ks
6th in WHIP
6th in Batting Average
I said he was going to be good.
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After taking 2 out of 3 from the defending world series champs, the Crew is breathing right down the neck of the Cardinals.
Meanwhile the Cubs are....busy getting spanked by the Pirates.
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After taking 2 out of 3 from the defending world series champs, the Crew is breathing right down the neck of the Cardinals.
Meanwhile the Cubs are....busy getting spanked by the Pirates.
Don't worry, neither team will be there in the end.
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Don't worry, neither team will be there in the end.
You're kidding yourself if you don't think this Brewers team will be there in the end.
Started off slow with Hart, Greinke, Morgan, Lucroy, and half our bullpen on the DL. Since getting most of those guys back we have been on a roll. June's schedule is ridiculously tough so we may fall back a bit, but after that watch out.
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So after three weeks, the Brewers, Cardinals and Reds are equally mediocre...and the Clubs slightly less so.
Ah yes, but my Astros can only hope to aspire to mediocrity. The Ownership sale by Drayton McLane to Jim Crane, last week is the only positive, as new owners usually bring needed change/housecleaning.
Would Brew fans take back Carlos Lee, please. This was the only Black free agent Drayton ever gave a big contract to (yes, I'm intimating something), as Drayton liked their mutual interest in cattle raising. Drayton was a Walmart style owner, ...and this team needs big change.
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Would Brew fans take back Carlos Lee, please. This was the only Black free agent Drayton ever gave a big contract to (yes, I'm intimating something), as Drayton liked their mutual interest in cattle raising. Drayton was a Walmart style owner, ...and this team needs big change.
Carlos Lee is from Panama.
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You're kidding yourself if you don't think this Brewers team will be there in the end.
Started off slow with Hart, Greinke, Morgan, Lucroy, and half our bullpen on the DL. Since getting most of those guys back we have been on a roll. June's schedule is ridiculously tough so we may fall back a bit, but after that watch out.
As much as I would prefer the Brewers, I still think the Reds are a better team especially once they get Bailey back and can settle down their pitching. Offensively, they are pretty much the best hitting team in the NL, Votto and Bruce are monsters, not to mention Phillips. This is all moot unless the Brewers can find a way to win on the road. They are the Wisconsin Badgers of the MLB at this point.
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As much as I would prefer the Brewers, I still think the Reds are a better team especially once they get Bailey back and can settle down their pitching. Offensively, they are pretty much the best hitting team in the NL, Votto and Bruce are monsters, not to mention Phillips. This is all moot unless the Brewers can find a way to win on the road. They are the Wisconsin Badgers of the MLB at this point.
Consider that the Reds play 81 games in what is widely considered the best offensive park in the NL... statistically, they may be the better team on offense, but if you could adjust stats for a neutral field setting (which I'm sure someone has), I would bet the Brewers come out on top.
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Consider that the Reds play 81 games in what is widely considered the best offensive park in the NL... statistically, they may be the better team on offense, but if you could adjust stats for a neutral field setting (which I'm sure someone has), I would bet the Brewers come out on top.
I think I'd take that bet. I love my crew, but when you look around the diamond, where do the Brewers have the Reds beat? LF obviously, and I'd call 1B (generous to the brewers), C, 2B, SS, 3B rough washes. I think Cincy's CF and RF top Mke's. They've got a deeper bench too, with Renteria, Fred Lewis, Hermida, and Heisey starting to look like a good little player.
I'll agree though that after actually comparing the lineup, its closer than I thought it'd be.
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This is all moot unless the Brewers can find a way to win on the road. They are the Wisconsin Badgers of the MLB at this point.
Yep. No team will win a division playing .307 ball on the road. The Brewers gotta get it figured out. June would be a nice time to do it, with a tough road schedule.
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Consider that the Reds play 81 games in what is widely considered the best offensive park in the NL... statistically, they may be the better team on offense, but if you could adjust stats for a neutral field setting (which I'm sure someone has), I would bet the Brewers come out on top.
Equivalent average or True average would be the stat you are looking for. Reds v. Brewers, top six hitters with over 150 PA.
Votto - .347
Bruce - .322
Hernandez - .314
Phillips - .278
Gomes - .267
Stubbs - .265
Braun - .352
Fielder - .325
Weeks - .298
McGehee - .246
Gomez - .245
Betancourt - .214
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Equivalent average or True average would be the stat you are looking for. Reds v. Brewers, top six hitters with over 150 PA.
Votto - .347
Bruce - .322
Hernandez - .314
Phillips - .278
Gomes - .267
Stubbs - .265
Braun - .352
Fielder - .325
Weeks - .298
McGehee - .246
Gomez - .245
Betancourt - .214
Once Hart and Lucroy have enough ABs to see a legitimate sample size they will bump Gomez and Betancourt out and McGehee down. I'm not sure what that would do overall with this comparison since I do not know how to calculate it or where to find those stats, but it would be close.
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Heard an interview with Ryan Dempster on AM radio today. They asked what it was like to play in front of only 30K on Memorial Day. His comment was along the lines of 'I guess when you're not winning some folks might just want to go to the beach, the weather here has been awful.'
After all the recent bashing of Brewers fans on this board, find it interesting that the Cubbies only draw 30k for an afternoon game on a national holiday when it was 80 and sunny.
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As much as I would prefer the Brewers, I still think the Reds are a better team especially once they get Bailey back and can settle down their pitching. Offensively, they are pretty much the best hitting team in the NL, Votto and Bruce are monsters, not to mention Phillips. This is all moot unless the Brewers can find a way to win on the road. They are the Wisconsin Badgers of the MLB at this point.
Thus far, the Cards have been far and away the best hitting team in the NL, and it's really not that close by most objective measuers. Who knows how long they'll keep this up, but that's pretty scary considering Pujols hasn't looked very good yet.
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Heard an interview with Ryan Dempster on AM radio today. They asked what it was like to play in front of only 30K on Memorial Day. His comment was along the lines of 'I guess when you're not winning some folks might just want to go to the beach, the weather here has been awful.'
After all the recent bashing of Brewers fans on this board, find it interesting that the Cubbies only draw 30k for an afternoon game on a national holiday when it was 80 and sunny.
Not sure what your point is. The bashing of Brewers fans was mostly because Cubs fans are consistently called out for being fairweather or not true fans, and thus the retaliation comes. But we don't need to get back into the population/attendance quagmire.
This spring has been a perfect storm in terms of attendance issues for the Cubs. The weather has been horrific, the team is playing terribly, and people have yet to really buy into new ownership which plays a role (not as big as the first two, but still).
And not to be a homer, but it felt like ALOT of people left town this weekend. Bars were not really that packed, and couple that with the insane number of people at the beaches on the first real beach day of the year, and I'm not that surprised with attendance.
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Heard an interview with Ryan Dempster on AM radio today. They asked what it was like to play in front of only 30K on Memorial Day. His comment was along the lines of 'I guess when you're not winning some folks might just want to go to the beach, the weather here has been awful.'
After all the recent bashing of Brewers fans on this board, find it interesting that the Cubbies only draw 30k for an afternoon game on a national holiday when it was 80 and sunny.
Cubs fans are fed up. The team keeps getting worse and is bringing in the likes of Doug Davis and Roddy Lopez to start while the new owner has proven to be a dunce and keeps raising ticket prices and making a fool of himself in his attempts to find "new revenue streams." This is all on top of the fact that the marketing department made the colassal blunder of offering smaller ticket packages. It's a mess on the North side right now and Ricketts hasn't done much to give fans confidence that he has any idea of how to run a baseball team.
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The Brewers will land in Miami before Votto's HR lands.
Another road series loss. One that could have been prevented by having a manager with a brain.
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The Brewers will land in Miami before Votto's HR lands.
Another road series loss. One that could have been prevented by having a manager with a brain.
I actually like Roenicke, much more than I liked Yost anyway. Watching tonight it seemed like he stuck with Marcum too long, but unlike Yost who stuck with all his pitchers far too long, I feel like Roenicke only makes that mistake with Marcum. Its almost as if because Marcum throws so few fastballs and so much trash, that Roenicke underestimates what will happen when he tires. In actuality, Marcums trash tends to hang just as hard throwers stuff tends to slow, and Marcum as a greater to equal chance to get taken yard. Either way, I'm thinking that by the break, Roenicke will have to learn his lesson about Marcum.
* I would love to see Marcum's stats until the last two outs or so of each of his outings. After being at the Grand Slam game friday and now watching tonight, it feels this is starting to be a pattern. I know that type of getting hit at the end of an outing is common to all SPs, but I feel like Marcum's stuff/how he is treated makes him particularly vulnerable.
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I must be in the minority on Roenicke. I'm not a fan of his, to be honest, for several reasons.
-Leaving starters in too long, especially Marcum as you said.
-His insistence on using Loe in the 8th, for the full inning, no matter what. See tonight's game.
-Other bullpen blunders, like running Axford out for 28 pitches in a 5 run game last night.
-Batting Gomez second for two months.
-His torrid love affair with Mark Kotsay, to the point of playing him in CF.
-Running into a huge amount of outs, especially at home plate, and the only explanation is "aggressiveness."
I'm glad the players like him and all that, but I'm seeing some of these things cost them games. And with their defense and inconsistent hitting, they can't afford to give away a lot of games.
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I think a lot of those are fair. Especially the Marcum criticism and his use of Loe, particularly with Saito and Hawkins starting to come out of injury. I'm also not a fan of his use of Kotsay, particularly with the clocks ticking on the young OFs in the brewers system (the only relative minor league strength they have) as they sit on the big league bench.
I guess I always just attributed his baserunning aggressiveness to Sedar as much as anything - whether thats fair or not. Also, while I don't like Gomez all that much, I'm not sure there were many other options while Nyjer was hurt.
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I must be in the minority on Roenicke. I'm not a fan of his, to be honest, for several reasons.
-Leaving starters in too long, especially Marcum as you said.
But this wasn't a problem with Yost and Macha? He is a HUGE improvement from these 2 in terms of this issue, and he is only going to get better as he becomes more comfortable with the pitchers he has and figures out their limits.
-His insistence on using Loe in the 8th, for the full inning, no matter what. See tonight's game.
Loe is our setup man until Saito returns from injury. He has done well in the spot and sometimes you live and you die by that rotation, just like a closer. It's his inning, regardless of what happens.
-Other bullpen blunders, like running Axford out for 28 pitches in a 5 run game last night.
He hadn't pitched in 3 days. You can't give your closer 4 days without pitching. What do you want him to do? The bullpen has done a phenomenal job this year and he has managed it well.
-Batting Gomez second for two months.
Who did you want to hit 2nd with Hart, Lucroy, and Morgan out of the lineup due to injuries? Katsay? Bettancourt? Nieves? I'll take my chances with a guy who has 1 thing going for him (speed) over guys who have absolutely nothing going for them. Would you move McGhee up to 2 and have absolutely no speed there, a struggling bat, and absolutely no protection behind Prince in the 5 hole? And you can't just bring somebody fresh off the DL and put him in the 2 hole either. You have to get them back into the swing of things.
-His torrid love affair with Mark Kotsay, to the point of playing him in CF.
Again, who are you going to start in center field when you want to give Gomez a day off and Morgan is on the DL? It's not like Gomez is a player you must have in the lineup, a superstar. He should be given days off, especially when he was struggling, and either Kotsay or Boggs was going to be that guy. I'd take the veteran over the journeyman.
-Running into a huge amount of outs, especially at home plate, and the only explanation is "aggressiveness."
But their aggressiveness on the basepathes also win them some baseball games.
I'm glad the players like him and all that, but I'm seeing some of these things cost them games. And with their defense and inconsistent hitting, they can't afford to give away a lot of games.
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1) But this wasn't a problem with Yost and Macha? He is a HUGE improvement from these 2 in terms of this issue, and he is only going to get better as he becomes more comfortable with the pitchers he has and figures out their limits.
2) Loe is our setup man until Saito returns from injury. He has done well in the spot and sometimes you live and you die by that rotation, just like a closer. It's his inning, regardless of what happens.
3) He hadn't pitched in 3 days. You can't give your closer 4 days without pitching. What do you want him to do? The bullpen has done a phenomenal job this year and he has managed it well.
4) Who did you want to hit 2nd with Hart, Lucroy, and Morgan out of the lineup due to injuries? Katsay? Bettancourt? Nieves? I'll take my chances with a guy who has 1 thing going for him (speed) over guys who have absolutely nothing going for them. Would you move McGhee up to 2 and have absolutely no speed there, a struggling bat, and absolutely no protection behind Prince in the 5 hole? And you can't just bring somebody fresh off the DL and put him in the 2 hole either. You have to get them back into the swing of things.
5) Again, who are you going to start in center field when you want to give Gomez a day off and Morgan is on the DL? It's not like Gomez is a player you must have in the lineup, a superstar. He should be given days off, especially when he was struggling, and either Kotsay or Boggs was going to be that guy. I'd take the veteran over the journeyman.
6) But their aggressiveness on the basepathes also win them some baseball games.
Responding in order-
1. Agree on Yost, not so much with Macha. Just because Macha was ornery doesn't mean he wasn't a good baseball mind. I rarely had issue with his managing. Also keep in mind Macha never had pitching like this. As far as Ron needing time, they don't have time. They've essentially mortgaged the future for this year. Can't afford to have the skipper on training wheels.
2) He's overused an average pitcher, and Loe is no more than an average pitcher. It being "his inning" is garbage. He's not a closer, do what you have to do to win. Look at tonight, Votto now has 4 hits against Loe, and 3 of them are homers. He plunks Phillips, and there should have been someone else ready to go for Votto.
3) Could have used him Sunday if you just wanted to break up his inactive days. This one I get more than some of his other decisions, though.
4) I understand the injuries, but even with guys healthy, he stuck with Gomez. That's what got me. Hart has always been more effective in the 2 hole. Lo and behold, he got hot this year after Ron finally moved him there.
5) Boggs has more speed and more pop in his bat than Kotsay. Give me that in a bench player any day.
6) Outside of the suicide squeeze (ballsy call, I admit) when has that won a game for them this season?
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Haven't you guys figured it out yet... when the Brewers win, the manager is a genius. When they lose, he's an idiot.
Currently, Ron Roenicke is an idiot. He will maintain that title until the Brewers win again. At that point, he will once again be a genius.
Throughout the history of baseball, there has never been a consensus on who's a good or bad manager. Not until a team goes 162-0 or 0-162 will we ever see either.
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Haven't you guys figured it out yet... when the Brewers win, the manager is a genius. When they lose, he's an idiot.
Currently, Ron Roenicke is an idiot. He will maintain that title until the Brewers win again. At that point, he will once again be a genius.
Throughout the history of baseball, there has never been a consensus on who's a good or bad manager. Not until a team goes 162-0 or 0-162 will we ever see either.
Then he's brilliant at home and on the road he's a moron.
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Then he's brilliant at home and on the road he's a moron.
In my experience, most guys are considered morons at home.
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Roenicke's looking far from a moron right now. Crew is on a role after sweeping the Marlins on the road. Team looks pretty good now that they are finally getting healthy.
I'd make a comment on the Cubbies, but I really don't feel like heading down into the cellar ;)
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How many times has Loe given up the lead in the 8th inning?
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How many times has Loe given up the lead in the 8th inning?
NYJER MORGAN!!!! ;D
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NYJER MORGAN!!!! ;D
Tony Plush!
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This weekend series with the Cards is shaping up to be a big one. Although it's still really early, the Brewers are hot right now and could take the division lead. It'll be fun to watch how this shapes up.
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This weekend series with the Cards is shaping up to be a big one. Although it's still really early, the Brewers are hot right now and could take the division lead. It'll be fun to watch how this shapes up.
It's a lot of fun to be watching the Crew in June and having this much excitement over a series, not just because of the opponent but because of the division implications.
Here's to hoping we hear a lot of complaining from LaRussa et. al on the swagger Braun and Prince showed over the weekend come Monday morning.
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Braun and Fielder hold nothing on Morgan these days...he apparently didn't remember what inning they were in last night.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Nyjer-Morgan-doesn-t-realize-it-s-9th-inning-unt?urn=mlb-wp8998
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More Nyjer Morgan. What a goof.
http://deadspin.com/5810351/
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I love that kid's energy! That was an amazing win for the Crew last night!
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More Nyjer Morgan. What a goof.
http://deadspin.com/5810351/
That's not Nyjer Morgan. That's Tony Plush.
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his shooting arrows in the dugout was also pretty dumb IMO
the consensus at work today is that he was just messing around with the 8th inning comment
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That's not Nyjer Morgan. That's Tony Plush.
Exactly... I'm amazed at how many beat writers, anchors, etc. (local and national) are actually falling for the "Tony Plush" bit hook, line and sinker.
Keep the media on it toes, Tony... er, Nyjer.
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his shooting arrows in the dugout was also pretty dumb IMO
the consensus at work today is that he was just messing around with the 8th inning comment
I'm pretty sure he came up with that so he wouldn't look like a stat-hound for taking a double on the walk-off.
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Crew looked pretty good sweeping the cards. Top of the NL Central, third best record in baseball.
A few JV games against the Scrubs and then a real challenge in the AL leading Red Sox. I just think the Crew has enough hitting depth right now with McGehee so cold and Bettencourt in the lineup to be a real threat in Boston.
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The problem with Bettencourt is that he leads MLB in swinging at first pitches. I'm sure he has been told this 100 times, but when you suck at hitting, you at least need to make the pitcher work a little bit.
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I don't know. The less time we have to watch him up at the plate the better.
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I don't know. The less time we have to watch him up at the plate the better.
I suspect Melvin and staff already have an eye out for potential SSs to pick up as the trade deadline nears. Bring back JJ Hardy?
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I suspect Melvin and staff already have an eye out for potential SSs to pick up as the trade deadline nears. Bring back JJ Hardy?
Josh Wilson is actually playing pretty well. I'd be okay with giving him a shot if nothing else was available.
The problem with trades for the Brewers, is we don't really have anything to offer.
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Josh Wilson has never been all that good with the glove though. (Not like Bettancourt is any better though.) Believe it or not, Counsell is the best option in the field, but a 40 yo can't be your everyday shortstop.
Honestly though, you could deal with it if McGehee weren't playing so poorly.
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Josh Wilson is actually playing pretty well. I'd be okay with giving him a shot if nothing else was available.
The problem with trades for the Brewers, is we don't really have anything to offer.
Nothing dispensable to offer, any way. They could make a blockbuster trade (e.g. Reyes) using Mat Gamel as a cornerstone, but I couldn't see Doug Melvin doing that unless he's got a commitment from Fielder (which they don't), a plan B in AAA (which they don't), or is thinking of making a splash on the FA market this fall (which they won't).
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Nothing dispensable to offer, any way. They could make a blockbuster trade (e.g. Reyes) using Mat Gamel as a cornerstone, but I couldn't see Doug Melvin doing that unless he's got a commitment from Fielder (which they don't), a plan B in AAA (which they don't), or is thinking of making a splash on the FA market this fall (which they won't).
Unless Melvin thinks the Brewers can win the WS this season with Betancourt at SS or in the new couple of seasons without Prince, he should make a move for a new SS, even if it means giving up Gamel.
From an outsider's perspective, the Brewers need to go for it this season. Losing Prince changes the complexion of the whole team, particularly since Braun's numbers should dip somewhat next season (teams will pitch around him without Prince protecting him). They also traded away a lot of young talent to get Grienke and Marcum and, despite those guys entering their prime, the team's small window is closing. Marcum and Gallardo are solid #2-3 pitchers but Grienke is a headcase who I wouldn't trust as the anchor of my staff in a pennant chase, not to mention that he's had one great season, one good season and lots of mediocrity. The Cardinals and Reds should be contenders in the Central for the next few years unless Pujols leaves StL (unlikely) and Dusty ruins the Reds' pitching staff (quite possible) but the relatively weak division is definitely something the Brewers have working in their favor. However, I don't think they can compete with teams like Philly and SF without Prince's big bat in the middle of the order.
That said, take it from someone who has seen his team go for it recently, it's an exciting ride...but it better end with a title. Otherwise, the 2014 Brewers could look a lot like the 2011 Cubs and I wouldn't wish that on anyone (except the Cardinals).
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A few JV games against the Scrubs
LOLZ
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LOLZ
LOLZ
Philadelphia40 26 .606
Boston 39 26 .600 .5
Milwaukee 38 29 .567 2.5
St. Louis 38 29 .567 2.5
Atlanta 38 29 .567 2.5
NY Yankees 36 28 .563 3
San Francisco37 29 .561 3
Arizona 37 30 .552 3.5
Cleveland 35 29 .547 4
Detroit 36 30 .545 4
Texas 36 31 .537 4.5
Tampa Bay 35 31 .530 5
Cincinnati 35 33 .515 6
Seattle 34 33 .507 6.5
Florida 32 33 .492 7.5
Pittsburgh 32 33 .492 7.5
Chicago Sox33 35 .485 8
Toronto 32 34 .485 8
NY Mets 32 34 .485 8
Baltimore 30 33 .476 8.5
LA Angels 32 36 .471 9
Colorado 31 35 .470 9
LA Dodgers 31 37 .456 10
Washington 30 36 .455 10
San Diego 30 38 .441 11
Kansas City 29 37 .439 11
Oakland 28 39 .418 12.5
Minnesota 26 39 .400 13.5
Chicago Cubs26 39 .400 13.5
Houston 25 42 .373 15.5
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LOLZ
Dempster owns the Brewers...and the botched suicide squeeze didn't help.
I do like the Crews chances with Gallardo vs. Wells and Greinke vs. Garza
Narveson just had an awesome start, haven't seen Zambrano much besides his annual "We suck" rant.
I still think Brewers leave Chicago no worse than a split, and the optimist says 3-1...
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LOLZ
Philadelphia40 26 .606
Boston 39 26 .600 .5
Milwaukee 38 29 .567 2.5
St. Louis 38 29 .567 2.5
Atlanta 38 29 .567 2.5
NY Yankees 36 28 .563 3
San Francisco37 29 .561 3
Arizona 37 30 .552 3.5
Cleveland 35 29 .547 4
Detroit 36 30 .545 4
Texas 36 31 .537 4.5
Tampa Bay 35 31 .530 5
Cincinnati 35 33 .515 6
Seattle 34 33 .507 6.5
Florida 32 33 .492 7.5
Pittsburgh 32 33 .492 7.5
Chicago Sox33 35 .485 8
Toronto 32 34 .485 8
NY Mets 32 34 .485 8
Baltimore 30 33 .476 8.5
LA Angels 32 36 .471 9
Colorado 31 35 .470 9
LA Dodgers 31 37 .456 10
Washington 30 36 .455 10
San Diego 30 38 .441 11
Kansas City 29 37 .439 11
Oakland 28 39 .418 12.5
Minnesota 26 39 .400 13.5
Chicago Cubs26 39 .400 13.5
Houston 25 42 .373 15.5
A much more succinct reply than mine...LOLZ indeed.
Also funny: Peter Gammons calling Wrigley Field a dump.
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I thought the Brewers, instead of playing the infield in with one out in the 8th, should have walked Ramirez and tried to set up the double play with Soto.
And I really can't blame Loe for that one...Barney's single was pretty weak and Pena's double should have been caught.
Also funny: Peter Gammons calling Wrigley Field a dump.
Amazing that in just a few years that place has gone from "iconic" to "white elephant." The Cubs should have tried to get out of there when the money was flowing. Now? Illinois is broke and the stadium doesn't generate any income.
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I don't think a single Cubs fan is going to argue that they have a good squad this year, and personally, despite being diehard, this is the earliest I've mentally accepted that no good will come of this season. That being said, its just amusing that Brewers fans assume they would stroll in for a sweep. As bad as the Cubs are, the series is tied for the year.
And I'm surprised Gammons could stop gushing over the Red Sox long enough to comment on anything but the AL East.
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Amazing that in just a few years that place has gone from "iconic" to "white elephant." The Cubs should have tried to get out of there when the money was flowing. Now? Illinois is broke and the stadium doesn't generate any income.
The problem isn't the stadium, it's the team and the owner. Fans are fed up with seeing a pathetic product on the field and Ricketts doesn't seem to care and keeps raising ticket prices, so fans have stopped going (the club also made some major marketing errors, but that's another issue). It's much easier for the owner and GM to turn the decreased attendance into a stadium issue than it is for them to admit that the fans are getting fed up with the owner and GM, especially when said owner is begging for money for upgrades and said GM has assembled a terrible, $100M team.
The days of Cubs fans only caring about getting drunk and enjoying a day in the sun are gone. Cubs fans want to win. Meanwhile the owner wants to find easy ways to create revenue as opposed to actually attempting to assemble a winning team.
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That being said, its just amusing that Brewers fans assume they would stroll in for a sweep.
Who exactly assumed that?
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The problem isn't the stadium, it's the team and the owner. Fans are fed up with seeing a pathetic product on the field and Ricketts doesn't seem to care and keeps raising ticket prices, so fans have stopped going (the club also made some major marketing errors, but that's another issue). It's much easier for the owner and GM to turn the decreased attendance into a stadium issue than it is for them to admit that the fans are getting fed up with the owner and GM, especially when said owner is begging for money for upgrades and said GM has assembled a terrible, $100M team.
I think clearly the attendance issue is because the on-field product stinks. And my observation is that Ricketts made a huge blunder by not cleaning house when he bought the team, or at the end of last year. Hendry should have been gone, but I guess since he made the mess, he gets to clean it up.
I view the stadium as more of a revenue issue. No way to generate money. I mean that Toyota sign that he had to fight for? That would have been installed at 29 other ballparks around the country without the hassle.
If the Yankees can replace their stadium, the Cubs should be able to replace theirs.
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I think clearly the attendance issue is because the on-field product stinks. And my observation is that Ricketts made a huge blunder by not cleaning house when he bought the team, or at the end of last year. Hendry should have been gone, but I guess since he made the mess, he gets to clean it up.
I view the stadium as more of a revenue issue. No way to generate money. I mean that Toyota sign that he had to fight for? That would have been installed at 29 other ballparks around the country without the hassle.
If the Yankees can replace their stadium, the Cubs should be able to replace theirs.
I'd have no problem with Wrigley being replaced. I just don't want to see them mess with the current Wrigley until it's unrecognizable.
BTW, that Toyota sign looks awful.
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I'd have no problem with Wrigley being replaced. I just don't want to see them mess with the current Wrigley until it's unrecognizable.
BTW, that Toyota sign looks awful.
Build a new stadium, play at Wrigley on weekends and holidays. Problem solved.
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You can't finance a stadium by taking out a quarter of its most lucrative gates a year. Not to mention keeping Wrigley from becomming a rat-infested dump.
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Who exactly assumed that?
Terming them "JV games" sort of implied it.
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Terming them "JV games" sort of implied it.
I inferred the JV statement as simply playing an inferior team, not as playing the Washington Generals. Even inferior teams win a few games here and there... for example:
Pittsburgh beat the Giants twice last year.
Baltimore beat the Yankees five times in 2009.
Washington beat the Phillies six times in 2008.
etc.
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As an StL fan, I was impressed the way the Brewers played the Cardinals. They are a good squad and are for real. I still think, barring any further injuries, the division is ours to lose. Pujols has had the slowest first 2 months of his career, and is just now finally coming around. Holliday has been on the DL the entire month. When he gets back, we'll be fine. Barring further injury, we win the division.
That being said, I think the Wild Card comes out of the central. It will be both the Cards and Brewers.
Side note, I love that no matter who ends up winning the division, its the Cardinals who are neck and neck with them (if the Cardinals don't win it themselves, which they have 7 times, which is 7 more times than the Brewers). Last year it was the Reds, but the Cardinals still won 86 games and were right there with the Reds until the end.
The only thing that irks me is that the Brewers go a half game up over the Cards, who have been leading the division for almost a month, and all of these fans come out of the woodwork saying how the division is wrapped up and theres no way the Brewers can be stopped. Give me a break. They are a good squad, but its June.
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The only thing that irks me is that the Brewers go a half game up over the Cards, who have been leading the division for almost a month, and all of these fans come out of the woodwork saying how the division is wrapped up and theres no way the Brewers can be stopped. Give me a break. They are a good squad, but its June.
Ha! How soon they forget.
June 14, 2007
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/date/20070614 (http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/date/20070614)
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The Brewers away from Miller Park are 13-20. I'm not sure they will see any JV teams on the road.
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Terming them "JV games" sort of implied it.
Oh I definitely meant the cubs were inferior. Been eating a bit of crow as I watched the last two games in downtown Chicago as the only brewers fan in the bar.
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Apparently Prince Fielder is so good, that he is going to be both the 1st and 10th best FA this coming off season...
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_10_degrees_prince_fielder_free_agent_spending_061411 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_10_degrees_prince_fielder_free_agent_spending_061411)
1. Prince Fielder, one agent said, “would get more than anyone.” It’s a bold prediction, though one that, upon examination, makes sense.
Here is the agent’s theory: While Albert Pujols(notes) remains a more talented player than Fielder – marginally so, but still enough that he should receive more on the open market – few in baseball see him leaving St. Louis. And should the Cardinals see Pujols’ struggles as the first sign of a descent and drop their offer below $200 million, Fielder’s willingness to seek the highest bidder could result in the sort of salary spike Boras excels at orchestrating.
The agent’s guess: eight years, $200 million, which would make him the second $200 million man, or maybe the third, depending on how the …
10. Prince Fielder grew into this season. Fielder’s dip in strikeout rate, from 23.9 percent of his at-bats last year to 13.1 percent this year, indicates a maturing hitter, one who has found that power and contact can coexist harmoniously.
Still.
It’s just that, for $200 million, a team can’t go after a player whose defining characteristic isn’t his power or his newfound skill but his weight. The media guide lists Fielder at 5-foot-11, 275 pounds. Each number is kind.
Power hitters, especially big ones with no defensive value because of their position, do not age gracefully. And that archetype fits everything about Fielder.
Now that is some quality and intelligent keybard work right there.
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Oh I definitely meant the cubs were inferior. Been eating a bit of crow as I watched the last two games in downtown Chicago as the only brewers fan in the bar.
Two straight beautiful starts on the road for the SP's and the bullpen goes ahead and gives it away...
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I'm already looking forward to the summer of 2018 when Cubs and Brewers fans argue over who's sputtering, big money guy is more overpaid: Braun with the Brewers or Prince with the Cubs.
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I'm already looking forward to the summer of 2018 when Cubs and Brewers fans argue over who's sputtering, big money guy is more overpaid: Braun with the Brewers or Prince with the Cubs.
I am pumped for the future when our grossly overpaid guy is somebody new. Soriano's had the title for too long already, and he's far from done.
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I'm already looking forward to the summer of 2018 when Cubs and Brewers fans argue over who's sputtering, big money guy is more overpaid: Braun with the Brewers or Prince with the Cubs.
This won't happen. Stay far away from Prince, and any other big free agents for 2-3 years.
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The Cubs haven't won three games in a row all year. Will they do it today?
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I don't think a single Cubs fan is going to argue that they have a good squad this year, and personally, despite being diehard, this is the earliest I've mentally accepted that no good will come of this season. That being said, its just amusing that Brewers fans assume they would stroll in for a sweep. As bad as the Cubs are, the series is tied for the year.
And I'm surprised Gammons could stop gushing over the Red Sox long enough to comment on anything but the AL East.
It's been rather depressing. All I can hope for is that we somehow climb back to .500 :/ and maybe since we're playing so crummy people can be less vicious to visiting fans @ MP . . .
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The Cubs haven't won three games in a row all year. Will they do it today?
Probably. Zambrano is usually solid against the Brewers, and as we all know the Brewers are AWFUL on the road.
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The Cubs haven't won three games in a row all year. Will they do it today?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVrSZHnvYY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnVrSZHnvYY)
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Wrigley sounding a lot like Miller Park south tonight. That feels so good to say.
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Wrigley sounding a lot like Miller Park south tonight. That feels so good to say.
Really? Miller Park sounds completely dead? ;)
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I can say, even as an optimistic Cubs fan, I in no way expected to take 3 out of 4. But I will certainly take it. Not bad for a JV squad...
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Really? Miller Park sounds completely dead? ;)
That's a pretty good point. Maybe I could hear all the Brewers fans chanting 'Lets Go Brewers!' because they were the only ones there ;)
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That's a pretty good point. Maybe I could hear all the Brewers fans chanting 'Lets Go Brewers!' because they were the only ones there ;)
Went to the game yesterday... frankly, I saw roughly as many Brewer fans (percentage-wise) there as I have seen Cubs fans at Miller Park recently. I was told the previous two nights were about the same by some. Regardless, I can say that - without a doubt - Brewers fans (those who travel) are much less obnoxious than their Cubs counterparts when losing, and are still not as boisterous when winning.
I will say one more thing, however... between the Cubs and Brewers, no one comes close to rivaling these two fanbases when it comes to spewing utter nonsense. My favorites from yesterday:
Cubs fan [who kept watching the scoreboard and lamenting after every Cubs strikeout or Brewers run about how it doesn't matter "as long as the Sox are losing"]: "The White Sox [fans] hate us, but we don't care about them. They won a World Series, yet all they care is about how we do. I don't watch Sox games so they could be in first place for all I know... who cares."
Brewers fan: "$7.00 for a beer? You guys are crazy. We'd never pay this in Milwaukee."
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tough break for St. Louis and Pujols (pun intended) ;D
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Went to the game yesterday... frankly, I saw roughly as many Brewer fans (percentage-wise) there as I have seen Cubs fans at Miller Park recently. I was told the previous two nights were about the same by some. Regardless, I can say that - without a doubt - Brewers fans (those who travel) are much less obnoxious than their Cubs counterparts when losing, and are still not as boisterous when winning.
The Cubs-Brewers "rivalry" has certainly died down recently. Each of the past two seasons, both teams were pretty mediocre and this season the Brewers are contenders while the Cubs are so bad that their fanbase basically gives a collective shrug if their team is mocked. If Prince signs with the Cubs this offseason, it could give a slight jolt to things but I honestly think it will be a while before Cubs-Brewers games have any type of "rivalry feel" to them. It was a circumstantial rivalry that seems to have run its course for the time being.
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The Brewers have the worst road record in the NL, and third worst in baseball. They would be running away with the division if they could play.500 the rest of the way on the road. The team is built for Miller.
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The Cubs-Brewers "rivalry" has certainly died down recently. Each of the past two seasons, both teams were pretty mediocre and this season the Brewers are contenders while the Cubs are so bad that their fanbase basically gives a collective shrug if their team is mocked. If Prince signs with the Cubs this offseason, it could give a slight jolt to things but I honestly think it will be a while before Cubs-Brewers games have any type of "rivalry feel" to them. It was a circumstantial rivalry that seems to have run its course for the time being.
I noticed all the empty seats in the bleachers at Wrigley during ESPN highlights. On a beautiful Thursday afternoon no less.
Don't tell me Chicago fans aren't bandwagon riders.
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I think it is clear that Cubs fans are deeply pessimistic about pretty much everything about their ballclub. They stink on the field, their farm system is putrid, their stadium needs some work, their leadership is awful...and the owner doesn't seem to have a clue.
Frankly it is like the Brewers when Selig-Prieb was in charage. It feels hopeless.
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I noticed all the empty seats in the bleachers at Wrigley during ESPN highlights. On a beautiful Thursday afternoon no less.
Don't tell me Chicago fans aren't bandwagon riders.
Noticed that as well. Attendance has been down significantly this year, but I wonder if the fact that it was the 13th inning and the Cubs were losing and being shut out into the 9th played a role in the crowd size during the highlights.
Announced attendance was over 38,000, which is above average for the year.
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I noticed all the empty seats in the bleachers at Wrigley during ESPN highlights. On a beautiful Thursday afternoon no less.
Don't tell me Chicago fans aren't bandwagon riders.
The Cubs have been top 10 in attendance every year since 2000 and still are top 10 right now. Despite an organization that has been as frustrating as any since 2003 and a team right now, that has been mentioned, is in shambles. Just stop, you sound like a fool. I didn't realize not having every game be standing room only constituted bandwagon fans. Did you count the rooftops too? No, you were probably too busy gleefully running to the computer to pile on criticism.
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The Cubs have been top 10 in attendance every year since 2000 and still are top 10 right now. Despite an organization that has been as frustrating as any since 2003 and a team right now, that has been mentioned, is in shambles. Just stop, you sound like a fool. I didn't realize not having every game be standing room only constituted bandwagon fans. Did you count the rooftops too? No, you were probably too busy gleefully running to the computer to pile on criticism.
Settle down, Wags.
Average home attendance (MLB rank)
2011- 36,339 (9th)
2010- 37,814 (7th)
2009- 39,610 (6th)
2008- 40,743 (7th)
2007- 40,153 (6th)
2006- 39,040 (6th)
2005- 38,749 (6th)
2004- 39,138 (6th)
2003- 37,032 (6th)
Attendance is clearly down, and I would argue that the difference would be much more drastic if we could see actual attendance rather than tickets sold. (And I'm a Cubs fan.) That being said, I don't think Cubs fans are bandwagon fans. Cubs fans aren't the sole group that makes up Wrigley crowds. Your lower attendance/bandwagon effect probably comes from all the people who are there just to be there rather than to watch the game, IMO.
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The Cubs have been top 10 in attendance every year since 2000 and still are top 10 right now. Despite an organization that has been as frustrating as any since 2003 and a team right now, that has been mentioned, is in shambles. Just stop, you sound like a fool. I didn't realize not having every game be standing room only constituted bandwagon fans. Did you count the rooftops too? No, you were probably too busy gleefully running to the computer to pile on criticism.
I'm just pointing out, as with all things involving Chicago sports, if the team is down, attendance goes into the sh*tter. As a percentage of MSMA population, Chicago doesn't support their sports teams worth a d*mn.
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Settle down, Wags.
Average home attendance (MLB rank)
2011- 36,339 (9th)
2010- 37,814 (7th)
2009- 39,610 (6th)
2008- 40,743 (7th)
2007- 40,153 (6th)
2006- 39,040 (6th)
2005- 38,749 (6th)
2004- 39,138 (6th)
2003- 37,032 (6th)
Attendance is clearly down, and I would argue that the difference would be much more drastic if we could see actual attendance rather than tickets sold. (And I'm a Cubs fan.) That being said, I don't think Cubs fans are bandwagon fans. Cubs fans aren't the sole group that makes up Wrigley crowds. Your lower attendance/bandwagon effect probably comes from all the people who are there just to be there rather than to watch the game, IMO.
I don't disagree. Anyone who has been to a game knows attendance is down. And there are a variety of reasons for that. I just get genuinely tired of this "Cubs fans are bandwagon fans" notion. I hear it from Sox fans (of whom I would argue there are just as many bandwagon fans since 2005), Brewers fans, etc...
I'm just pointing out, as with all things involving Chicago sports, if the team is down, attendance goes into the sh*tter. As a percentage of MSMA population, Chicago doesn't support their sports teams worth a d*mn.
Seriously? This again? I thought this ended with the Blackhawks thread. What other sports are there to add fuel to your fire? The Bulls who have been top 3 in attendance the last 5 years (usually 1 or 2) and have only been out of the top 5 once in the last decade? Or the Bears, who aren't in the top 10 because Soldier Field has one of the smaller capacities in the NFL.
This is just a consistent argument from someone who hates Chicago and Chicago sports. Ask the rest of the country and I don't think you'll find many people who consider Chicago a bad sports town.
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I'm just pointing out, as with all things involving Chicago sports, if the team is down, attendance goes into the sh*tter. As a percentage of MSMA population, Chicago doesn't support their sports teams worth a d*mn.
In the 1999-2000 season, the Bulls went 17-65 and led the league in attendance.
Nice try though.
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The Cubs have more to sell than most other franchises. Vibrant, "happening" and affluent neighborhood, romantic (if crumbling) ballpark, their own superstation, the role of perennial underdog, etc. This has allowed them to stay strong attendance-wise even when the main product (baseball) left much to be desired. But no franchise is immune when downturns in the economy and team performance occur simultaneously. I suspect this September will bring many announced crowds of 35,000+ with fewer than 20,000 in the park. Next season, actual ticket sales will fall somewhat and stay down until the team improves, the economy totally rebounds or both.
The fact that demand is affected by the quality of the product doesn't make a consumer a "band wagon" fan - just shows he's paying attention.
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In the 1999-2000 season, the Bulls went 17-65 and led the league in attendance.
Nice try though.
You are correct. DaaaBullsssssss have been in the top 10 of NBA attendance since 2001. My Bad.
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The Cubs have more to sell than most other franchises. Vibrant, "happening" and affluent neighborhood, romantic (if crumbling) ballpark, their own superstation, the role of perennial underdog, etc. This has allowed them to stay strong attendance-wise even when the main product (baseball) left much to be desired. But no franchise is immune when downturns in the economy and team performance occur simultaneously. I suspect this September will bring many announced crowds of 35,000+ with fewer than 20,000 in the park. Next season, actual ticket sales will fall somewhat and stay down until the team improves, the economy totally rebounds or both.
The fact that demand is affected by the quality of the product doesn't make a consumer a "band wagon" fan - just shows he's paying attention.
+1
It's also important to note that it was clear that the Cubs were clearly getting worse and that their window had closed, yet the owner raised ticket prices each of the last two seasons and appears to have no long-term plan. That's a recipe for decreased attendance.
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You are correct. DaaaBullsssssss have been in the top 10 of NBA attendance since 2001. My Bad.
Enjoy the Admirals and Wave when Milwaukee/Bradley Center is no longer a viable option for the Bucks.
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Enjoy the Admirals and Wave when Milwaukee/Bradley Center is no longer a viable option for the Bucks.
The Bucks aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Enjoy the Admirals and Wave when Milwaukee/Bradley Center is no longer a viable option for the Bucks.
The only reason to go to The BC is to watch Our Marquette Warriors.
I know I should care about the Bucks, but NBA basketball does not excite me.
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kind of a cheap shot on the bucks maybe leaving town.
i will say that I think its not right to call Chicago sports fans bandwagon in regards to any team except the hawks. across the board those other franchises get supported in up and down years. cubs are probably the least bandwagony of all - i think people like to get the whole trixie-cub-fan thing confused with bandwagon. just because there might be a large number of cubs fans that arent knowledgeable, etc, and offend the midwestern down homey sensitivities doesnt make them bandwagon. cub fans show up, sit in the bleachers with their shirts off and trucker hats, and get totally blitzed win or lose. and i dont mean that to be backhanded, i was one of the not so proud brewers fans in attendance on monday to see our set up man get booed and the wave in a tie game in the 9th inning. so, you know, (i) be not proud.
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kind of a cheap shot on the bucks maybe leaving town.
i will say that I think its not right to call Chicago sports fans bandwagon in regards to any team except the hawks. across the board those other franchises get supported in up and down years. cubs are probably the least bandwagony of all - i think people like to get the whole trixie-cub-fan thing confused with bandwagon. just because there might be a large number of cubs fans that arent knowledgeable, etc, and offend the midwestern down homey sensitivities doesnt make them bandwagon. cub fans show up, sit in the bleachers with their shirts off and trucker hats, and get totally blitzed win or lose. and i dont mean that to be backhanded, i was one of the not so proud brewers fans in attendance on monday to see our set up man get booed and the wave in a tie game in the 9th inning. so, you know, (i) be not proud.
Cameron Loe deserves to get booed. He has been terrible for months.
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Cameron Loe deserves to get booed. He has been terrible for months.
Roenicke did him no favors by basically pitching him for the first 20 games of the year...or so it seemed.
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http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6746478/undervalued-sluggers
Interesting article on how crappy the Brewers' defense is.
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Brewers just got Krod. Thoughts?
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Brewers just got Krod. Thoughts?
Time to get rid of Kameron Loe.... and off to the playoffs!
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Brewers just got Krod. Thoughts?
Pending confirmation that my understanding of mlb free agency is solid, I really like this deal for the crew because of how little we give up. K-Rod will almost surely project as a type A FA at the end of the year, so as long as the crew don't let him get to his 55 games finished benchmark, the crew don't give up much. The Mets are sending some cash (ironic, no?) which offsets some of this year's salary and/or next years $3.5M buyout, depending on how you look at it. Then as a type A, the brewers should get a teams top pick as well as a compensatory pick for losing him at the end of the year.
So the crew give up 2 to be named, but get two picks back from losing a type A. They also get part of the $$ they owe K-Rod between this year and his buyout back from the Mets.
IF that analysis is correct, thats a pretty good player for very little cost.
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So with the bullpen well shored up, if they go get JJ Hardy or Jose Reyes are they the obvious front runners in the NL?
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Are the Phillies no longer in the NL?
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K-rod has a 7.11 ERA this season in non-save situations. His WHIP is a career worst 1.41. His K-rate is also a career low. So basically, he gives up a lot of contact, which is not a good thing when the brewers defense behind him is so bad. Even if he doesn't reach his vesting of 55 games finished, he's still due 3.5 million next year as a buyout. Plus, we don't know who the players are that the brewers gave up. If it ends up being even one of Wily Peralta, Tyler Thornburg or Khris Davis, the Brewers gave up too much. Personally think it's a move that does little, if anything, to improve the club, while giving up a lot of money and potentially one of the few remaining prospects in the system.
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K-rod has a 7.11 ERA this season in non-save situations. His WHIP is a career worst 1.41. His K-rate is also a career low. So basically, he gives up a lot of contact, which is not a good thing when the brewers defense behind him is so bad. Even if he doesn't reach his vesting of 55 games finished, he's still due 3.5 million next year as a buyout. Plus, we don't know who the players are that the brewers gave up. If it ends up being even one of Wily Peralta, Tyler Thornburg or Khris Davis, the Brewers gave up too much. Personally think it's a move that does little, if anything, to improve the club, while giving up a lot of money and potentially one of the few remaining prospects in the system.
As a Brewers I just hope this past June was an outlier. Looking at his game log, in April in he had an ERA 1.86, May, 1.65 in May, 7.71 in June, and 0.00 in July thus far (in 4 appearances).
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/5357/francisco-rodriguez
10 of his 15 ER this year happened in June, as did all 3 of his HR's.
Crossing my fingers. Go Brewers
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Are the Phillies no longer in the NL?
Yes, they are. Which is why I asked the question. If they can get a legit SS like Reyes or Hardy, it shores up the defense, and certainly puts their offense ahead of the Phillies. I'll take the Brewer's bullpen. The Phillies rotation is better, but I would suggest the gap may be a bit wider in name/reputation than it is in ability/performance.
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The Brewers defensive problems go well beyond shortstop. That entire infield is full of defenders that are *at best* average. Part of me thinks that you just get the best SS bat available and screw the defense entirely.
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The Brewers defensive problems go well beyond shortstop.
Of course they do, but if you can take what is currently probably the weakest spot and turn it to the strongest, you have drastically improved the defense, and while it won't make it 'good' overall, I think you could potentially take it out of the 'problem' category. Not to mention the fact that, as you suggest, you would also be taking the weakest spot in the order, and moving into the upper half.
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Yes, they are. Which is why I asked the question. If they can get a legit SS like Reyes or Hardy, it shores up the defense, and certainly puts their offense ahead of the Phillies. I'll take the Brewer's bullpen. The Phillies rotation is better, but I would suggest the gap may be a bit wider in name/reputation than it is in ability/performance.
Interesting. If anything, I'd say it's Greinke (and his 5.45 ERA) whose value is being overrated.
Numbers at the break...
Phi SP: 42-24, 2.93 ERA, 4.3:1 K/BB, .242 BAA
Mil SP: 37-23, 4.14 ERA, 2.7:1 K/BB, .255 BAA
Phi Pen: 15-10, 3.24 ERA, 1.8:1 K/BB, .232 BAA
Mil Pen: 12-20*, 3.92 ERA, 2.7:1 K/BB, .250 BAA
(*-most in MLB)
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Greinke has been unlucky as hell. He's been hittable, but realistically, his ERA should be closer to 3.5 than 5.5 based on his peripherals. read this:
http://disciplesofuecker.com/if-it-wasnt-for-bad-luck-zack-greinked-have-no-luck-at-all/ (http://disciplesofuecker.com/if-it-wasnt-for-bad-luck-zack-greinked-have-no-luck-at-all/)
Added: that being said, the top three of Halladay, Hamels and Lee blows Greinke, Gallardo and Marcum out of the water. But with Blanton and Oswalt being hurt, the brewers rotation is certainly deeper. Advantage Phils come playoff time, but it probably all evens out in the regular season.
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Greinke has been unlucky as hell. He's been hittable, but realistically, his ERA should be closer to 3.5 than 5.5 based on his peripherals. read this:
http://disciplesofuecker.com/if-it-wasnt-for-bad-luck-zack-greinked-have-no-luck-at-all/ (http://disciplesofuecker.com/if-it-wasnt-for-bad-luck-zack-greinked-have-no-luck-at-all/)
Added: that being said, the top three of Halladay, Hamels and Lee blows Greinke, Gallardo and Marcum out of the water. But with Blanton and Oswalt being hurt, the brewers rotation is certainly deeper. Advantage Phils come playoff time, but it probably all evens out in the regular season.
I don't care what his peripherals say he should be, his ERA is 5.45 and I find it hard to call any pitcher "unlucky" when he's got 7-3 record despite having an ERA that high.
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I don't care what his peripherals say he should be, his ERA is 5.45 and I find it hard to call any pitcher "unlucky" when he's got 7-3 record despite having an ERA that high.
Yeah, who cares about statistics!
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I don't care what his peripherals say he should be, his ERA is 5.45 and I find it hard to call any pitcher "unlucky" when he's got 7-3 record despite having an ERA that high.
You don't understand baseball.
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You don't understand baseball.
I understand baseball, but what the crap does this mean? ?-( ?-( ?-(
Let’s start with the basics. Greinke has a 2.98 FIP, a sparkling 2.15 xFIP, and an unsightly 5.45 ERA (the ERA is with Greinke only allowing 2 ER last night; Fangraphs appears to have not updated that yet). He is, unsurprisingly, getting poor results in two of the most common “luck” stats; he’s sporting a .349 BABIP and a 15.9% HR/FB ratio. These two numbers tend to be around .300 and 11%, respectively, so clearly Zack is getting no help there.
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Yes, and he has a career ERA under 4 in nearly 200 starts, playing for perhaps the worst team in baseball, in the American League. Regression to the mean, coupled with him making his Spring Training starts in the MLB regular season would seem to suggest that he is in for a pretty good second half. Not to mention, that Halladay, Lee, and Hammel's currently have ERAs are all significantly lower than their career. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that they will see theirs creep up a little.That's not really the point though, all I'm saying is that at this moment looking forward, I like the way the Brewers stack up against the Phillies. Their rotation still gets the nod, but I don't think the gap is as wide as most would believe it to be. The Brewers' bullpen is probably better, as is the offense.
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I understand baseball, but what the crap does this mean? ?-( ?-( ?-(
Let’s start with the basics. Greinke has a 2.98 FIP, a sparkling 2.15 xFIP, and an unsightly 5.45 ERA (the ERA is with Greinke only allowing 2 ER last night; Fangraphs appears to have not updated that yet). He is, unsurprisingly, getting poor results in two of the most common “luck” stats; he’s sporting a .349 BABIP and a 15.9% HR/FB ratio. These two numbers tend to be around .300 and 11%, respectively, so clearly Zack is getting no help there.
FIP is fielding independent pitching. it takes into account K-rate, walk rate, home runs allowed and hit by pitches to give you a number that represents only what the pitcher can directly control. any balls in play that are not a home run are subject to fielders making the correct play. so basically the FIP is what his ERA should be if luck were taken out of the equation. xFIP normalizes home runs allowed by doing it as a percentage of home runs allowed per fly ball. Which is why his exceedingly high ratio of 16% is very unlucky as it represents almost 50% higher than the norm. BABIP is batting average on balls in play, and again, greinke's numbers are much higher than the average, suggesting bad luck, perhaps due to the brewers crappy defense.
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I think Greinke will be better, but not old Greinke either. The Brewers defense will always suck, and so Greinke will continue to be "unlucky" in that sense. No matter what his sabers are, his ERA will be 'unluckily' high all year. Plus, the type of pitcher he is figures into how unlucky his HR/FB ration is. He has always pounded the zone, and so his HR/FB ratio will be higher than the average. Its not like he's a groundball pitcher who has had all of his mistakes go over the wall. He just greases balls in the zone and dares batters to hit them.
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Agree 100%, which is why I think his ERA should be closer to 3.50 as opposed to the sub 3.00 ERA predicted by FIP.
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Anybody else get a chuckle out of Prince having to monitor what his son was doing the entire press conference.
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Anybody else get a chuckle out of Prince having to monitor what his son was doing the entire press conference.
Honestly, I thought his boys were going to start fighting over it and snap it in half on national TV. That would have been legendary.
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FIP is fielding independent pitching. it takes into account K-rate, walk rate, home runs allowed and hit by pitches to give you a number that represents only what the pitcher can directly control. any balls in play that are not a home run are subject to fielders making the correct play. so basically the FIP is what his ERA should be if luck were taken out of the equation. xFIP normalizes home runs allowed by doing it as a percentage of home runs allowed per fly ball. Which is why his exceedingly high ratio of 16% is very unlucky as it represents almost 50% higher than the norm. BABIP is batting average on balls in play, and again, greinke's numbers are much higher than the average, suggesting bad luck, perhaps due to the brewers crappy defense.
So if you're numbers are much higher than average, it means you're unlucky? I always thought it meant that you weren't all that good. I should go back and look at my high school pitching FIP and xFIP. I may have been MLB material but didn't realize it!
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Yeah, who cares about statistics!
You don't understand baseball.
Are theoretical runs being used to decide baseball games or are they still sticking with actual runs scored? Assuming they still use actual runs, I'd take a "lucky" pitcher like Halladay, Lee, Verlander, Weaver or Sabathia over Greinke any day.
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Are theoretical runs being used to decide baseball games or are they still sticking with actual runs scored? Assuming they still use actual runs, I'd take a "lucky" pitcher like Halladay, Lee, Verlander, Weaver or Sabathia over Greinke any day.
No, they are used as a predictor in conversations like this.
If you want to have a conversation about wins that is fine. You can back up your argument with actual wins. But that would be stupid since wins are a function of more than just pitching.
Hey, whatever bogus criteria you want to rate pitching on is fine, just remember Chris Capuano had a season where he won 18 games and CC Sabathia has a season where he only won 11.
Who is the better pitcher?
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The Houston Chron guy, R Justice, is all for Astros going to the AL. He's originally from Dallas(ugh), and sees us with a Rangers rivalry...I dont. He says:
..."I haven’t spoken to Jim Crane about the issue, but he’s said to strongly favor staying in the National League. I favor the American League because I think playing the Rangers 18 times a year would do great things for MLB in this state. It would also help the Rangers in cutting down their number of 9 p.m. starts.
Drayton McLane said that in his walks around Minute Maid Park he has been surprised by the passion fans spoke out against moving to the AL. Other than having a dozen or so 9 p.m. road games, I don’t see what the big deal is. The Astros have never really had a real rival, but the Rangers could be a great one...."
Justice lacks a Houston pedigree, and fails to realize that the Houston Buffs were the AAA farm team for the Cards, for many decades, then the Colt 45s joined the NL in early 60s, later becoming the Astros. Like Milw, it was always a natl league town. When Brewers first came, people listened to cubs games in the stands...the rivalry never fixed with the white sox. I left before Harveys wallbangers, so maybe the AL took hold at some point, but I was very very happy when Brew crew joined the NL central. It has seemed a more natural fit, to me.
Do yall think our NL central brethren care enough, or will holler over a push of the Astros to the AL?
I realize our geography makes us a bit of an outlier, but Houstonians are really mad about any shift to the AL...we are strictly a natl league town, and dont want to switch--can you relate?
Im just hoping against hope for some empathy, as its a little similar to Milw.'s situation...historically.
BTW, if you prefer to say good riddance or prefer we go, I am a grownup, and can accept that too...Im just wondering if yall have thoughts here. Thanks.
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I personally don't care if Houston leaves or not.
However, I think Houston fans will adapt just like Brewer fans did to a switch in leagues. It really isn't that big of a deal.
I like the idea of a full balanced schedule, no divisions, with the top five going to the playoffs.
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No, they are used as a predictor in conversations like this.
If you want to have a conversation about wins that is fine. You can back up your argument with actual wins. But that would be stupid since wins are a function of more than just pitching.
Hey, whatever bogus criteria you want to rate pitching on is fine, just remember Chris Capuano had a season where he won 18 games and CC Sabathia has a season where he only won 11.
Who is the better pitcher?
When did I ever mention that pitchers should be measured by their number of wins?
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So if you're numbers are much higher than average, it means you're unlucky? I always thought it meant that you weren't all that good. I should go back and look at my high school pitching FIP and xFIP. I may have been MLB material but didn't realize it!
no, but maybe you should retake your statistics course. these are statistically significant deviations from not only the league average but his career averages, suggesting with high confidence that luck is a large factor in his numbers.
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no, but maybe you should retake your statistics course. these are statistically significant deviations from not only the league average but his career averages, suggesting with high confidence that luck is a large factor in his numbers.
So if you're stats are significantly higher than the league average then it simply means you're unlucky. Got it. And all this time I just thought Doug Davis sucked!
Perhaps it's more a matter of Greinke's 2009 season being a statistical outlier that skews his career "averages." Take away that season then look at his career numbers. Pretty ordinary.
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You would only have a point if Doug Davis has a FIP that was significantly lower than his ERA. For his career, his FIP and ERA are almost perfectly in line (see FIP-ERA):
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1244/doug-davis (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1244/doug-davis)
Greinke also has a pretty symmetrical FIP to ERA throughout his career:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1943/ (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1943/)
As such, this year's numbers of 2.98 FIP and a 5.45 ERA for a difference of almost 2.5 runs proves that luck is the main reason for his uncharacteristically high ERA.
But I'm sure you'll just make another clever one liner, so I'm done because you really don't understand what you are arguing.
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You would only have a point if Doug Davis has a FIP that was significantly lower than his ERA. For his career, his FIP and ERA are almost perfectly in line (see FIP-ERA):
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1244/doug-davis (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1244/doug-davis)
Greinke also has a pretty symmetrical FIP to ERA throughout his career:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1943/ (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/1943/)
As such, this year's numbers of 2.98 FIP and a 5.45 ERA for a difference of almost 2.5 runs proves that luck is the main reason for his uncharacteristically high ERA.
But I'm sure you'll just make another clever one liner, so I'm done because you really don't understand what you are arguing.
Nope, he doesn't. It's hard to have an intelligent baseball conversation with a Cubs fan. That's OK. The average baseball fan wouldn't understand it either. It reminds me of taking a girl to a baseball game. They think it's fun and all, but they don't understand the game and how it's supposed to be. Just like Merritt doesn't understand that there are statistics beyond just ERA that matter/prove a pitcher's worth. He probably thinks batting average is the most telling offensive statistic too.
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Nope, he doesn't. It's hard to have an intelligent baseball conversation with a Cubs fan. That's OK. The average baseball fan wouldn't understand it either. It reminds me of taking a girl to a baseball game. They think it's fun and all, but they don't understand the game and how it's supposed to be. Just like Merritt doesn't understand that there are statistics beyond just ERA that matter/prove a pitcher's worth. He probably thinks batting average is the most telling offensive statistic too.
Actually, I'd be willing to bet that I understand baseball more than any of you and have played more baseball than any of you. Spitting out obscure stats as excuses for your team's underachieving pitcher doesn't demonstrate knowledge of the game. It means that you can regurgitate numbers. Good for you guys though. Keep thinking that you're knowledgable fans. After all, ignorance is bliss.
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Actually, I'd be willing to bet that I understand baseball more than any of you and have played more baseball than any of you. Spitting out obscure stats as excuses for your team's underachieving pitcher doesn't demonstrate knowledge of the game. It means that you can regurgitate numbers. Good for you guys though. Keep thinking that you're knowledgable fans. After all, ignorance is bliss.
Since this is the way the conversation is going...
I'm smarter than you, na na na na boo boo, stck your head in doo doo.
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Actually, I'd be willing to bet that I understand baseball more than any of you and have played more baseball than any of you. Spitting out obscure stats as excuses for your team's underachieving pitcher doesn't demonstrate knowledge of the game. It means that you can regurgitate numbers. Good for you guys though. Keep thinking that you're knowledgable fans. After all, ignorance is bliss.
But wait, how do you justify that Greinke is underachieving? oh yeah...STATS! we're just talking about ones you don't understand so you belittle them. The fact that you don't know about these "obscure" stats demonstrates lack of knowledge on your part and is the definition of ignorance. Stats like these are why Felix won the Cy Young last year. Look, you're right that ERA is a fair indicator of his RESULTS this year. But his actual PERFORMANCE has been better than his RESULTS. I'd be willing to bet you that his ERA ends up below 4.00 for the season. if you think FIP is garbage, then you have nothing to worry about...
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But wait, how do you justify that Greinke is underachieving? oh yeah...STATS! we're just talking about ones you don't understand so you belittle them. The fact that you don't know about these "obscure" stats demonstrates lack of knowledge on your part and is the definition of ignorance. Stats like these are why Felix won the Cy Young last year. Look, you're right that ERA is a fair indicator of his RESULTS this year. But his actual PERFORMANCE has been better than his RESULTS. I'd be willing to bet you that his ERA ends up below 4.00 for the season. if you think FIP is garbage, then you have nothing to worry about...
Are you kidding me?! You think it was Felix's FIP and xFIP that won him the Cy Young? It wasn't his league-leading ERA, IP and H/9? How about his 1.057 WHIP, 6 CG or 232 Ks? Did those have anything to do with it? And, oh by the way, those are actual stats, not theoretical numbers to show how lucky or unlucky he may or may not have been.
What do you want to bet that ZG's actual ERA is lower than 4.00 at season's end?
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Are you kidding me?! You think it was Felix's FIP and xFIP that won him the Cy Young? It wasn't his league-leading ERA, IP and H/9? How about his 1.057 WHIP, 6 CG or 232 Ks? Did those have anything to do with it? And, oh by the way, those are actual stats, not theoretical numbers to show how lucky or unlucky he may or may not have been.
What do you want to bet that ZG's actual ERA is lower than 4.00 at season's end?
Man, look at you just regurgitating stats. that's weird. Did i say it was his FIP or xFIP? I said stats like these. even 5 years ago, a guy with a .500 record would not have sniffed the Cy Young. It's because of people starting to understand sabers that Felix won the Cy Young. It seems to be your argument that luck doesn't matter. How then, did Felix lose 12 games last year? His stats clearly indicate his dominance...yet 12 losses? Maybe the fact that his run support per game was the lowest in the AL by 0.75 runs? No luck involved there...
Loser won't post on any baseball-related threads anymore.
EDIT: Actually what we should be betting is whether or not Greinke has a Sub 3.00 ERA from here on out, since that is what FIP actually predicts. It does not take into account current ERA to estimate end of year ERA.
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http://dlvr.it/bt9kL
The Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, and defending World Series champ San Francisco Giants are also thought to have interest in Beltran, though a scout told [Yahoo Sports] that the Milwaukee Brewers are "a dark horse in the Beltran sweepstakes."
FOXSports has it that the Phillies and Red Sox "are among the most aggressive ... if not the most aggressive" suitors for the 34-year-old Beltran, who got on base five times in five chances in his return from three games off with the flu Tuesday night.
FOXSports names the Cleveland Indians, Detroit Tigers, and Atlanta Braves as being interested in Beltran as well.
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Phillies & San Fran, sure. Red Sox, you bet. Yankees, of course. Brewers, WTF?!?
Question the first: Where do you put Beltran? Certainly not left or right, so does he have enough leg in him to go back to CF? And is moving Tony Plush from the line-up really a good idea... granted the guy has no pop, but he's a spark plug. How many game-winning rallies has Plush been an integral part of this year? Nearly all of them, perhaps?
Question the second: What are you going to give up to get him? Beltran, possibly aside from Reyes (depending on his health/recovery over the next 5 days), is the prize acquisition on the market. It's almost a guarantee that whoever gets him is going to overpay. I'm not sure the Brewers are going to be willing to give up the level of prospect(s) needed to get Beltran considering the lack of depth on the farm right now.
Question the third: If you're Doug Melvin, aren't you all-in on getting a SS right now? When you look at the marginal spread (mmmm... marginal spread) between what you have vs. Beltran & Yuni B vs. an average SS, the latter is where you're going to get bang for your buck.
IMO, the only way the Brewers are in the Beltran sweepstakes is if they're willing to send (and the Mets want) one of their current outfielders back... I'd actually be quite happy trading Corey Hart & a PTBNL or two (+ Yuni B, otherwise DFA his behind) for a package deal of Reyes and Beltran... I don't know whether that's even enough, if the Mets are one of the 15 on Hart's NTL, and whether the Mets realistically are planning on being in it in the next two years (otherwise, there's no value in just two years of Corey Hart at $9 & $10M.)
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The Mets will be trading Beltran away for a song. He is due too much money and they are having financial troubles.
The Brewers don't really *need* Beltran, but if we can get him on the cheap... why not?
Obviously, I'd rather have Reyes... he is a franchise guy. I think the Mets are going to be asking a lot more for him... if they even care to trade him at all.
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Man, look at you just regurgitating stats. that's weird. Did i say it was his FIP or xFIP? I said stats like these. even 5 years ago, a guy with a .500 record would not have sniffed the Cy Young. It's because of people starting to understand sabers that Felix won the Cy Young. It seems to be your argument that luck doesn't matter. How then, did Felix lose 12 games last year? His stats clearly indicate his dominance...yet 12 losses? Maybe the fact that his run support per game was the lowest in the AL by 0.75 runs? No luck involved there...
Loser won't post on any baseball-related threads anymore.
EDIT: Actually what we should be betting is whether or not Greinke has a Sub 3.00 ERA from here on out, since that is what FIP actually predicts. It does not take into account current ERA to estimate end of year ERA.
How did run support affect Felix's overall numbers outside of W/L, a stat that most baseball fans would tell you is overrated?
Let's just agree that you'll stick to your new-fangled theoretical statistics and keep thinking that Greinke has just been unlucky and I'll stick to my curmudgeon-y actual statistics and keep thinking that Greinke hasn't performed very well and just go on our merry ways.
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Fair enough mustache. Soon enough we can get back to MU basketball anyway...
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The Mets will be trading Beltran away for a song. He is due too much money and they are having financial troubles.
The Brewers don't really *need* Beltran, but if we can get him on the cheap... why not?
Obviously, I'd rather have Reyes... he is a franchise guy. I think the Mets are going to be asking a lot more for him... if they even care to trade him at all.
Agreed... plus you also keep him from going to STL, SF or PHI. (Does "defense wins championships" apply to defensive trades?)
Nevertheless, I think the Brewers need to focus on the following SS's... start at the top, work your way down until you're comfortable with the demands from the other side, and pull the trigger:
1) Jose Reyes
2) Yunel Escobar (could command even more than Reyes if Toronto is even willing to deal.. certainly helps to solve the SS problem for next year, though)
3) Jamey Carroll (not much of a defensive upgrade, but Brewers could use a guy with a .360 OBP)
4) Brendan Ryan (offensively similar to Yuni B, but probably best defensive option out there)
5) Erik Aybar (Although, Angels aren't out of it... yet, and he has another year of arbitration)
6) Clint Barmes (having a great year defensively, although it's nearly impossible to trade within the division)
If the Brewers can't get one of the above SS's, then I say plug Josh Wilson in, hope for very few ground balls, and turn the efforts to another arm (lefty?) for the pen.
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How did run support affect Felix's overall numbers outside of W/L, a stat that most baseball fans would tell you is overrated?
Let's just agree that you'll stick to your new-fangled theoretical statistics and keep thinking that Greinke has just been unlucky and I'll stick to my curmudgeon-y actual statistics and keep thinking that Greinke hasn't performed very well and just go on our merry ways.
Would you agree that there are different defenses behind different pitchers? So a team like the Brewers who has an infield of McGehee, Betancourt, Weeks, and Fielder will give up more runs than even an average defensive infield, let alone a good defensive infield. On top of that, Greinke is a pitcher who POUNDS AWAY at the strike zone. Which means he will rely on the strikeout and on his defense to make plays for him. So when he has one of the worst defenses behind him, his numbers are going to be worse than a pitcher who ha a great defense behind him or one who relies on deception.
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Agreed... plus you also keep him from going to STL, SF or PHI. (Does "defense wins championships" apply to defensive trades?)
Nevertheless, I think the Brewers need to focus on the following SS's... start at the top, work your way down until you're comfortable with the demands from the other side, and pull the trigger:
1) Jose Reyes
2) Yunel Escobar (could command even more than Reyes if Toronto is even willing to deal.. certainly helps to solve the SS problem for next year, though)
3) Jamey Carroll (not much of a defensive upgrade, but Brewers could use a guy with a .360 OBP)
4) Brendan Ryan (offensively similar to Yuni B, but probably best defensive option out there)
5) Erik Aybar (Although, Angels aren't out of it... yet, and he has another year of arbitration)
6) Clint Barmes (having a great year defensively, although it's nearly impossible to trade within the division)
If the Brewers can't get one of the above SS's, then I say plug Josh Wilson in, hope for very few ground balls, and turn the efforts to another arm (lefty?) for the pen.
I generally agree, but I don't think the Crew should pay what its going to take to get Beltran. The talk was putting Beltran in right and shifting Corey to center. Yuck city. Plus i just dont think the nyjer for beltran trade nets enough to be worth the price you pay for Beltran.
The deal I would bite on but doubt Toronto would: Corey Hart for Yunel Escobar straight up. The Jays are invested in Yunel, but its incredibly team friendly. He's due $5m this year and next, with team options for $5m in both 2014 and 2015. I think thats a great bargain. Corey Hart meanwhile is due almost $25m over the next three years. Escobar gives you less power, more average, and plays a weaker position. I think I'd do that, especially with all the RF bats available on the cheaps. If you could turn Hart + something small into Escobar, then flip a low-mid level prospect or two for a Willingham, Ludwick, Francoeur, etc, I think you're better now and in the future.
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I generally agree, but I don't think the Crew should pay what its going to take to get Beltran. The talk was putting Beltran in right and shifting Corey to center. Yuck city. Plus i just dont think the nyjer for beltran trade nets enough to be worth the price you pay for Beltran.
The deal I would bite on but doubt Toronto would: Corey Hart for Yunel Escobar straight up. The Jays are invested in Yunel, but its incredibly team friendly. He's due $5m this year and next, with team options for $5m in both 2014 and 2015. I think thats a great bargain. Corey Hart meanwhile is due almost $25m over the next three years. Escobar gives you less power, more average, and plays a weaker position. I think I'd do that, especially with all the RF bats available on the cheaps. If you could turn Hart + something small into Escobar, then flip a low-mid level prospect or two for a Willingham, Ludwick, Francoeur, etc, I think you're better now and in the future.
I was thinking the exact same thing last night before the Gomez injury; although for the reasons you mentioned, I'm not sure that Toronto would be interested unless you package Corey with another top prospect or take on a good portion of his salary.
However, I've changed my mind on Beltran after last night's game. Tim Brown (Yahoo Sports) seems to think Beltran can be had for prospects or salary... I can't say I disagree given the Mets financial picture. If that's true, Doug Melvin would become legendary if he could pull off two trades: 1) Beltran for a mid-level prospect or two ("hey... remember that PTBNL list we gave you for K-Rod... we'll take Carlos, you pick four") and 2) Escobar for some combination of Corey Hart, Mat Gamel, cash or a PTBNL.
Imagine a lineup that looks like this going into September:
Weeks
Morgan
Braun
Fielder
Beltran
Escobar
McGehee
Lucroy
If McGehee keeps hitting the way he has thus far in the 2nd half, I'd put that 1-8 against anyone. Coupled with an B+ pitching staff, and I think you have enough to be seriously considered as WS contenders.
All it's going to cost you is about $12M, a couple of unproven/unready prospects, and Corey Hart. If it means becoming the instant NL favorites, I would say that's an easy decision to make.
Granted, they'd be left gaping holes at RF and 1B this off-season, but those might just be two of the easiest positions to fill this year on the FA market, via trades or from within during the off-season. Otherwise, the entire core of players is back. Plus, they'll have some compensatory draft picks depending on where Fielder and/or Beltran sign.
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Thank god we have the Cardinals as the measuring stick for baseball etiquette.
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Thank god we have the Cardinals as the measuring stick for baseball etiquette.
The difference in calls is fantastic. I think the Cardinals TV call takes the cake on this one.
http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/video-yadier-molina-bumps-spits-on-umpire/
The Cardinals, the greater uniter between Brewers and Cubs fans.
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The Cardinals, the greater uniter between Brewers and Cubs fans.
+1. Used to hate the Cubs more. Over the last 3-4 years it's the Cardinals by far. And it has nothing to do with the Cubs sucking. Can't stand anybody on the Cardinals
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The Cardinals really are punks and it all starts with LaRussa. With the exception of Braun, I really don't have a problem with any of the Brewers and wouldn't mind seeing them win the division. I'd prefer if Pittsburgh won it but they seem to be fading having lost 2 in a row to the suddenly surging Cubs.
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From Phil Rogers of The Trib...
Lance Lynn should be Tony La Russa's new favorite pitcher. The Cardinals' reliever made La Russa's latest game of Mr. Macho Baseball 2012 a little more palatable, at least for La Russa himself and the Cardinals' tunnel-visioned fans.
One thing about La Russa. He can get self righteous at the drop of a hat if his players are hit with pitches, and just as quickly he'll either order or intimidate his pitcher into retaliating. It can get silly, and it can get dangerous, and it did both on Tuesday night in Milwaukee. It also probably should have cost the Cardinals an important game with the NL Central leaders, but Lynn contained the damage.
La Russa lost it after Takashi Saito hit Albert Pujols in the hand with a pitch. No one, including La Russa, thought Saito hit Pujols deliberately. Yet La Russa ordered Jason Motte to drill the Brewers' Ryan Braun in the bottom of the inning. It took him two pitches to do it, but Motte got Braun in the left shoulder of a pitch as he ducked away.
There was an odd bit of timing to the incident. The game was tied 7-7, in the seventh inning, yet La Russa thought the effort to protect Pujols was worth putting the go-ahead run on base with no outs. That's about as hard core as it gets.
The move blew up on La Russa when lefty Marc Rzepcynski then walked Prince Fielder, putting men on first and second with no outs. Lynn came in to face Casey McGehee, who reached on an infield single, loading the bases with no outs. But the St. Louis reliever turned into Harry Houdini, retiring Yuniesky Betancourt, Jonathan Lucroy and pinch hitter Mark Kotsay without the Brewers getting Braun home from third, and the Cardinals would go on to win 8-7 in the 11th inning.
The Brewers' television crew of Brian Anderson and Bill Schroeder had the right take on the incident, in real time. Schroeder called it "bush league'' and then referenced the ethical high ground that La Russa and the Cardinals cling to while taking cheap shots they wouldn't tolerate from the other side.
"They fashion themselves as the keeper of baseball etiquette,'' Schroeder said. "They're nothing if not predictable. Complain about everything. That's Cardinals baseball.''
La Russa admitted afterward that he didn't think Saito was throwing at Pujols. He didn't like him throwing a pitch above the waist on the inside part of the plate.
"I don't want to hear about our tactics vs. what they did," La Russa said. "They did not make an intentional hit, but they tried to throw the ball up and in. It's a very dangerous pitch and we almost paid a hell of a price. Just look at the location and potential danger of the two (pitches). That's a dangerous pitch whoever throws it. ... I'm tired of the danger. Get the ball down if you want to get the ball inside. That's one of the ways you avoid any nonsense."
On Monday night, La Russa had filed a complaint with umpire chief Gary Darling during a game against the Brewers, apparently complaining that lighting inconsistencies with the ribbon board that surrounds the stands above the loge level made it darker when the Cardinals were batting than when the Brewers hit.
Really. He did.
The Brewers discussed the situation with league officials but didn't change anything. "It's all been handled," Brewers GM Doug Melvin told the Journal Sentinel. "I really don't have any comment on it. We didn't change anything. There was no reason to change anything. What was brought up, nothing had to be changed."
Brewers manager Ron Roenicke did not order his pitchers to retaliate against the Cardinals on Tuesday. But keep an eye on Wednesday's game. The Brewers just might be in a mood to send a message or two of their own.
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Lets not forget that La Russa feels the need to call an announcer for the other team so that he can explain his comments to the Great Tony La Russa.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/126704128.html
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Lets not forget that La Russa feels the need to call an announcer for the other team so that he can explain his comments to the Great Tony La Russa.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/126704128.html
I was at the game on Tuesday, so I missed Schroeder's call from the throw at Braun - can I find it anywhere?
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nm
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I was at the game on Tuesday, so I missed Schroeder's call from the throw at Braun - can I find it anywhere?
http://deadspin.com/5827532/how-the-brewers-and-cardinals-broadcast-crews-reacted-to-the-ryan-braun-plunking-last-night
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http://deadspin.com/5827532/how-the-brewers-and-cardinals-broadcast-crews-reacted-to-the-ryan-braun-plunking-last-night
Thank You.
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http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/pirates-acquire-lee-ludwick-to-bolster-2ndhalf-col,21073/
So much for the Pirates...
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What a week... you'd never know that NFL training camp was in full gear (metaphorically speaking):
1) It's amazing how quiet it gets when the Cubs are 16 games out, even after a seven-game win streak. Granted they're not as vitriolic as their Cardinal counterparts, Cubs fans apparently do 80% of the talking in the NL Central when they're in contention.
2) To no one's surprise ("no one" as in those of us who actually watch baseball as opposed to simply reading the cue cards behind the camera) the Pirates have gone from 1st place to 4th place & 10 games behind in a matter of two weeks. The entire nationally syndicated sports show docket was dominated by the "are the Pirates for real - you bet they are" storyline just after the All-Star break. Not so much anymore.
3) SE Wisconsin sports talk is now equating Cards/Brewers with Packers/Vikings (i.e. a rivalry that emerges only when the Bears - or in this case, the Cubs - go into hibernation). That would be a great analogy if it weren't for the fact that the Vikings and Bears aren't the long-time rivals in this love triangle.
4) Two meaningful series start tomorrow: STL/MIL & CLE/DET. Nationally, the former will be overshadowed by the latter, and both will be overshadowed by either a) A-Rod's Pokergate, b) "When will Strasburg be called up," or c) both.
That is, of course, unless Tony gets a hankerin' for some three-bean salad and a benches-clearing brawl ensues, which is relatively likely at this point... I'd give it 7:2.
5) The Brewers and Cardinals play an almost identical remaining schedule (in terms of series' opponents). The only difference: Brewers play the Fish in September while the Cards play the Braves. Both teams should continue the current trend by beating-up on opponents for the last eight weeks.
6) Brewers have three open dates in September, the last one coming before a season-ending 6-game homestand against the Fish and Bucs. The Cards have two open dates, the last being the 15th, just before @PHI, NYM, CHC, @HOU.
Aforementioned schedules - with the exception of Philly (home for Brewers, road for Cards) - are quite favorable.... no teams over .500 for the Brewers outside the Cards series, only Atlanta for the Cards. Speaking of which, if the Cards sweep the Braves, Atlanta may very well lose its grip on the Wild Card (or fall further behind by that point). If the Braves sweep the Cards, the Brewers solidify their chances of winning the division. Either way, that series looks quite beneficial for the Brewers' playoff chances at this point.
And since I've breached the topic of October, it's worth pointing out that assuming no one misses a start and no makeup games played outside their currently scheduled series, the Brewers' rotation is lined up so that:
a. St Louis will see Gallardo & Wolf 3x, Marcum twice & Narveson once, but no Greinke.
b. Narveson will be the odd-man out in the 4-game series against Philly.
c. Wolf & Gallardo are the only pitchers who have a remaining opponent W/L pct over .500 (.514 & .513, respectively).
d. Narveson has the weakest opp. W/L pct - .453.
e. Wolf is lined up to pitch game 162. On normal rest, Gallardo, Greinke & Marcum are lined up to start in a potential playoff rotation.
I'm not sure anything could be termed "ideal" when it comes to the unknowns of September baseball, but that's about as ideal as it gets for the Brewers. Barring a collapse - which is certainly possible, although not as probable as recent history - things are looking pretty good for the Crew.
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Greinke been pitching very well....as he has been all season. Luck starting to even out though as his ERA drops steadily towards 4.00.
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As much as I wouldn't mind Pujols getting ear-holed (well, I don't really want them to throw at his head)...the last time the Brewers got into this "You hit us, we hit you" thing it didn't work out so well...just beat them.
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And yet, Packers training camp news is still the first sports story on Milwaukee area newscasts. (At least last week it was.)
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Are you kidding me?! You think it was Felix's FIP and xFIP that won him the Cy Young? It wasn't his league-leading ERA, IP and H/9? How about his 1.057 WHIP, 6 CG or 232 Ks? Did those have anything to do with it? And, oh by the way, those are actual stats, not theoretical numbers to show how lucky or unlucky he may or may not have been.
What do you want to bet that ZG's actual ERA is lower than 4.00 at season's end?
Still taking bets? ;)
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Still taking bets? ;)
Give me 3 weeks and I'll get back to you.
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And yet, Packers training camp news is still the first sports story on Milwaukee area newscasts. (At least last week it was.)
Gotta remember, they are the super bowl champs, and in Wisconsin, are king.
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Give me 3 weeks and I'll get back to you.
down to a 4.08 ERA
1.56 ERA and 0.99 WHIP since the allstar break
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down to a 4.08 ERA
1.56 ERA and 0.99 WHIP since the allstar break
But luck had nothing to do with his first half numbers. He just figured it all out, it clicked at the snap of his fingers. His high ERA told the entire story. That's all that matters, not some fake stats that don't matter.
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But luck had nothing to do with his first half numbers. He just figured it all out, it clicked at the snap of his fingers. His high ERA told the entire story. That's all that matters, not some fake stats that don't matter.
Yes, it's obvious he snapped his fingers and went from incredibly unlucky to insanely lucky. It wasn't that he actually did pitch poorly and was potentially tipping his pitches. It was all a matter of luck. I'm sure he was slightly unlucky early in the season...but I also think he just wasn't very good. The "truth" is probably somewhere in between our two viewpoints.
Not related to Greinke specifically, but have any other Milwaukeeans noticed the complete lack of buzz surrounding the Brewers? I don't mean that as an insult or anything. Maybe it's out there and I'm just missing it, but I'm genuinely shocked at how little people around seem to care that the Brewers are in the 1st place in mid-August.
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Yes, it's obvious he snapped his fingers and went from incredibly unlucky to insanely lucky. It wasn't that he actually did pitch poorly and was potentially tipping his pitches. It was all a matter of luck. I'm sure he was slightly unlucky early in the season...but I also think he just wasn't very good. The "truth" is probably somewhere in between our two viewpoints.
Not related to Greinke specifically, but have any other Milwaukeeans noticed the complete lack of buzz surrounding the Brewers? I don't mean that as an insult or anything. Maybe it's out there and I'm just missing it, but I'm genuinely shocked at how little people around seem to care that the Brewers are in the 1st place in mid-August.
You're serious?
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Not related to Greinke specifically, but have any other Milwaukeeans noticed the complete lack of buzz surrounding the Brewers? I don't mean that as an insult or anything. Maybe it's out there and I'm just missing it, but I'm genuinely shocked at how little people around seem to care that the Brewers are in the 1st place in mid-August.
Forgot the teal?
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I am serious and I did not forget the teal. Like I said, maybe I'm just missing it because I don't follow the Brewers but it doesn't really seem like the city is all that excited.
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I am serious and I did not forget the teal. Like I said, maybe I'm just missing it because I don't follow the Brewers but it doesn't really seem like the city is all that excited.
Part of it I imagine is the fact the NFL, and the Packers just returned. A cure for cancer could be discovered, but if Aaron Rodgers rolled his ankle in practice, that would bump that news off the front page.
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I am serious and I did not forget the teal. Like I said, maybe I'm just missing it because I don't follow the Brewers but it doesn't really seem like the city is all that excited.
Today's attendance: 45,103.
Capacity of Miller Park: 41,900.
No Buzz at all though.
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Today's attendance: 45,103.
Capacity of Miller Park: 41,900.
No Buzz at all though.
Attendance and "buzz" are not the same thing.
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What do you want Merritts? People holding parades through the streets? Is it any different than then the Packers are leading their division with four regular seasons games to go? I doubt it....
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TV ratings are up. Radio is up. Attendance is very strong. Merchandise sales are very strong.
There's a buzz. People are following this team very closely.
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TV ratings are up. Radio is up. Attendance is very strong. Merchandise sales are very strong.
There's a buzz. People are following this team very closely.
Thanks for providing an actual response supported by facts instead of being an a-hole. I guess I'm just not seeing or hearing the buzz because the fans who I'm friends with and work with are much more interested in the Packers' up-coming season and have the Brewers as kind of an afterthought. Perhaps I need a new "buzz barometer" or perhaps I'm used to the craziness that ensues when the Cubs are even marginally in contention.
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Thanks for providing an actual response supported by facts instead of being an a-hole. I guess I'm just not seeing or hearing the buzz because the fans who I'm friends with and work with are much more interested in the Packers' up-coming season and have the Brewers as kind of an afterthought. Perhaps I need a new "buzz barometer" or perhaps I'm used to the craziness that ensues when the Cubs are even marginally in contention.
I think there is a buzz, but Brewers fans are doing a good job keeping it in perspective. Lots of baseball to be played, and expectations for this team are high as well. "Tempered" buzz?
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Perhaps I need a new "buzz barometer" or perhaps I'm used to the craziness that ensues when the Cubs are even marginally in contention.
I would never expect the Cubs buzz to be nearly as close as the Brewers, and as a Cubs fan I envy the Brewers for that.
Mostly because there's no decent sports talk radio in Milwaukee that will sound the trumpets as the team nears contention, they get the same coverage regardless of their position (see 670 and the White Sox right now).
I think there is a buzz, but Brewers fans are doing a good job keeping it in perspective. Lots of baseball to be played, and expectations for this team are high as well. "Tempered" buzz?
This is what I find refreshing.
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I would never expect the Cubs buzz to be nearly as close as the Brewers, and as a Cubs fan I envy the Brewers for that.
Mostly because there's no decent sports talk radio in Milwaukee that will sound the trumpets as the team nears contention, they get the same coverage regardless of their position (see 670 and the White Sox right now).
Apparently the THIS IS THE YEAR!!! contingent of Brewers' fans is signficantly less than what we see as Cubs fans ;D
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Thanks for providing an actual response supported by facts instead of being an a-hole. I guess I'm just not seeing or hearing the buzz because the fans who I'm friends with and work with are much more interested in the Packers' up-coming season and have the Brewers as kind of an afterthought. Perhaps I need a new "buzz barometer" or perhaps I'm used to the craziness that ensues when the Cubs are even marginally in contention.
Facts? I'd say conjecture, but whatever floats your boat.
All I am saying is that I haven't heard anyone describe the Brewers as Buzz-less.
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Apparently the THIS IS THE YEAR!!! contingent of Brewers' fans is signficantly less than what we see as Cubs fans ;D
That's because "This Is The Year" is a licensed trademark of the Chicago Cubs Baseball Club, Inc., all rights reserved.
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That's because "This Is The Year" is a licensed trademark of the Chicago Cubs Baseball Club, Inc., all rights reserved.
I thought it was "Wait till Next Year"?
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I thought it was "Wait till Next Year"?
It only becomes "Wait Til Next Year" after the fan base realizes that it is not actually the year. Sometimes this happens in October (i.e. '03, '07, '08) and other times it can happen as early as the Cubs Convention in January (i.e. '11).
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Whatever the case may be, this is a picture from earlier today (presumably around the lunch hour):
(http://media.jsonline.com/images/375*250/25351453-mjs_tickets-_nws-_sears-_1-1.jpg)
The parking lots haven't even opened yet for today's game, and the six open ticket windows I can see are 7-12 people deep.
If you've got 50+ people in line at a given moment - in Milwaukee, no less - on a Monday morning/afternoon waiting to buy tickets (when they can more conveniently be purchased online), I can't think of a better way to demonstrate "buzz."
The only way there could be more buzz over this team right now would be to shoot Brent Williams out of a cannon over Miller Park. (EDIT: Something which I am absolutely NOT advocating as a faithful Warrior.)
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They weren't waiting tickets, just for Bierbrauers t-shirts, which were the absolute tits yesterday BTW.
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They weren't waiting tickets, just for Bierbrauers t-shirts, which were the absolute tits yesterday BTW.
+1. Grienke's sneak preview helped the cause.
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+1. Grienke's sneak preview helped the cause.
Haha that was pretty funny.
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They weren't waiting tickets, just for Bierbrauers t-shirts, which were the absolute tits yesterday BTW.
You were there too?
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Whatever the case may be, this is a picture from earlier today (presumably around the lunch hour):
(http://media.jsonline.com/images/375*250/25351453-mjs_tickets-_nws-_sears-_1-1.jpg)
The parking lots haven't even opened yet for today's game, and the six open ticket windows I can see are 7-12 people deep.
If you've got 50+ people in line at a given moment - in Milwaukee, no less - on a Monday morning/afternoon waiting to buy tickets (when they can more conveniently be purchased online), I can't think of a better way to demonstrate "buzz."
The only way there could be more buzz over this team right now would be to shoot Brent Williams out of a cannon over Miller Park. (EDIT: Something which I am absolutely NOT advocating as a faithful Warrior.)
Thanks for posting. Apparently there is more buzz than I had thought...although clearly those are all bandwagon fans waiting in line and filling up Miller Park otherwise they would have their tickets months ago and been going to games since at least the Billy Jo Robidoux Era. ;)
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Thanks for posting. Apparently there is more buzz than I had thought...although clearly those are all bandwagon fans waiting in line and filling up Miller Park otherwise they would have their tickets months ago and been going to games since at least the Billy Jo Robidoux Era. ;)
Keep my name out your mouth!
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/327226/Robidoux.jpg)
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So....the Cubs let Hendry oversee the trade deadline and the draft....
And then they fired him in mid-August. Bizarre.
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So....the Cubs let Hendry oversee the trade deadline and the draft....
And then they fired him in mid-August. Bizarre.
Maybe giving him one last chance to make competent moves and when he bungled it (I personally think he was awful at the deadline), they had seen enough.
Either way, im too busy celebrating to worry about it.
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Either way, im too busy celebrating to worry about it.
+1
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Maybe giving him one last chance to make competent moves and when he bungled it (I personally think he was awful at the deadline), they had seen enough.
Either way, im too busy celebrating to worry about it.
From what I understand, Ricketts wouldn't let Hendry have a fire sale at the deadline because that would have (in theory) made the team even worse which would have led to more empty seats and less money coming in. He wasn't going to hire a new GM or even promote an interim GM and then tie that guy's hands. Hendry was basically the fall guy.
Though Hendry is not thought of very highly right now, I actually think he was a very good GM for the Cubs. He was really the first guy to bring in well-respected, big name managers. Hiring Dusty Baker, fresh off a pennant, changed the dynamic of the organization and actually showed a commitment to winning. Hendry was able to build a team that should have won the pennant in '03 and another team that finished with the best record in the NL in '08 because he took risks in an attempt to win the World Series. Those risks obviously didn't pay off and the team has fallen off the map since '08 but had either the '03 or '08 team won the WS, Hendry would never have to pay for another meal in Chicago again. Since it didn't work out, he's unemployed.
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Maybe giving him one last chance to make competent moves and when he bungled it (I personally think he was awful at the deadline), they had seen enough.
Either way, im too busy celebrating to worry about it.
Crane Kenney remains as team president.
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Anybody can spend money wildly and hand out bad long-term contracts for short-term gain. Frankly I could have done that. Hendry was terrible because he failed to build a decent baseball organization from the top down.
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Anybody can spend money wildly and hand out bad long-term contracts for short-term gain. Frankly I could have done that. Hendry was terrible because he failed to build a decent baseball organization from the top down.
To be fair, he was never allowed to build it from the top down. From Tribune to Zell to Ricketts (until now), they all needed asses in the seats and new jerseys on the backs. Signing free agents and trading prospects for names was the method to do just that.
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Trib pushing Hahn for the job. May not be too out there as he fits the bill, and Ricketts wants a baseball only guy (with analytics) in there and not a new overall President as Kenny will stay to finish the Arizona development.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/cbsports-cubs-search-could-be-short-hahn-is-right-man-20110819,0,624748.story
Meanwhile, Sandberg has improved the Phil's AAA team 44 games and is fighting with the BoSox affiliate for first place. Hahn, although with the Sox, is a Northsider and a big Cubs fan who understands the fanbase. Sandberg would put fans in the seats and knows the Cubs farm and has the respect of vets. Some of you guys think I am nuts about him, but he will be a great big league manager. Kiss Quade good-bye. Fielder nor Pujois would ever play for him, and he is already losing the kids on how he rides the rookies but let's the vets slide. Even on Zambrano, Hendry was the one who stepped foreword and acted. That was a clubhouse matter, and Quade just showed he was Hendry's and Bush's toady.
Hendry could buy talent, but he was too short-sighted and then the talent would burn-out, leaving a big talent void after the quick hits--as he over spent his $$ on long-term dead-enders. Ricketts had had enough of his throwing good money after bad, and wants to build for the long-term. Hahn has done it all.
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Hendry could buy talent, but he was too short-sighted and then the talent would burn-out, leaving a big talent void after the quick hits--as he over spent his $$ on long-term dead-enders. Ricketts had had enough of his throwing good money after bad, and wants to build for the long-term. Hahn has done it all.
McDonaugh and Kenney were more responsible for the overpaying/long-term deals of Soriano and Zambrano.
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McDonaugh and Kenney were more responsible for the overpaying/long-term deals of Soriano and Zambrano.
No doubt. The Trib and then Zell mismanaged their entire business portfolio, and in many cases, were borderline unlawful like the LA Times deal and the bankruptcies. Hendry was lead on these Cubs negotiations if you check the history, though, and gave away the house (no trade clauses) when he didn't need to. The backloaded nature of these deals were structured by the Trib boys to win now, I get all that. However, Hendry kept doing it during/after the sale, most recently giving $10mm to Pena when he could have got him for $5mm. The Bradley deal was just insane. Everyone in the Chicago media is pushing Hahn as he is brilliant on negotiations, even McDonough's guy Rozner, which means Ricketts will do the opposite. Right call, two years too late.
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For Merritt's Stache, some figures to back my Brewers buzz post up-
http://www.jsonline.com/business/128136078.html
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For Merritt's Stache, some figures to back my Brewers buzz post up-
http://www.jsonline.com/business/128136078.html
Thanks for sharing. Clearly I was in the dark on the Brewers' "buzz." Perhaps my first full baseball season in the 'burbs, as opposed to downtown, has kept me out of the loop :)
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Give me 3 weeks and I'll get back to you.
AHEM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/5883/zack-greinke
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victory in our bet that never happened!
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Kudos to you guys...although ZG could still implode on Saturday ;)
It's unfortunate that none of you were confident enough to actually take the bet when it was first presented.
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Kudos to you guys...although ZG could still implode on Saturday ;)
It's unfortunate that none of you were confident enough to actually take the bet when it was first presented.
Has anyone ever taken an MUScoop bet before?
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Kudos to you guys...although ZG could still implode on Saturday ;)
It's unfortunate that none of you were confident enough to actually take the bet when it was first presented.
WHAT!? YOU were the one who backed out of the bet. You offered and asked what I wanted to bet. I accepted and set the terms as the loser can no longer post in baseball threads. You did not accept. go back and check for yourself. Bottom of page 17 and top of page 18...
EDIT: looking closer, I actually offered the initial bet, as well.
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WHAT!? YOU were the one who backed out of the bet. You offered and asked what I wanted to bet. I accepted and set the terms as the loser can no longer post in baseball threads. You did not accept. go back and check for yourself. Bottom of page 17 and top of page 18...
EDIT: looking closer, I actually offered the initial bet, as well.
You offered, I asked what you wanted to bet, you said loser doesn't post on baseball threads anymore...and then it was my understanding that you tried to change the bet in your edit, which is not how I operate. Apparently I misunderstood but since I would have lost either way (barring a meltdown tomorrow), how about this...
I won't post* on MUScoop baseball-related threads until the Cubs are ahead of the Brewers in the regular season standings. Could be Opening Day 2012, could be September 2017. If Greinke does have a meltdown tomorrow and his ERA goes back up over 4.00, you do the same. What do you think?
* - I'll post on here to acknowledge the wager if you accept it.
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Yeah, I can see the misunderstanding...i guess, lol. If you're down, I'm down. Kudos on a clever wager as well.
I accept the terms and conditions of this agreement.
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Bummer...I was looking forward to hearing Merritt's take on the Brewers pennant run and World Series exploits.
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Yeah, I can see the misunderstanding...i guess, lol. If you're down, I'm down. Kudos on a clever wager as well.
I accept the terms and conditions of this agreement.
Farewell NL Central Pissing Match! Until we meet again!
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Champs
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Feels good to say that one...golden time for WI sports right now.
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So here's a brain buster --- the Brewers want to pitch Greinke in game 2 at home and Marcum in game 3 on the road because of each pitcher's respective home/away splits. Conundrum: the Brewers' best shot to gain home-field in the NLDS means you have to burn Greinke tonight, leaving him available to pitch game 3 on the road. Ideally, Greinke only throws a bullpen session's worth of pitches tonight (how many is that? 20? 30?), and the Brewers build a lead early.
Obviously, the #2 seed is more important that lining up your rotation, especially since your 2 and 3 starters will only make one appearance in the NLDS.
Question 1) Let's assume Zach gives you three solid innings and is in a position to be pulled and saved for game 2 on Sunday... how many runs do the Brewers need to have in order to be comfortable pulling Zach understanding that you are going to have to cover four innings with the likes of Narveson, Dillard, Fiers, etc?
Question 2) Assume Greinke melts down and gives up a sizable lead early. Do you pull him when he hits 30 pitches (or whatever the bullpen max is)? If you do, he can pitch Sunday, and you still have a chance at home-field if the D-Backs lose. Or do you keep him in and line him up for game 3 (considering that would likely be a home game).
Since it's my question (and - in a way - my thread as well)... I grant MM dispensation to respond as well if he so desires since it is a Greinke-related question.
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I think that you need to win tonight. I go back and forth, and if the 2 seed was just a difference in home field advantage, then I'd say screw it and set up your rotation. But since in this case, theres a very good chance that getting the 2 seed avoids the Phils in the first round, thats absolutely got to be your first priority. I think that if that means pushing Greinke back to game 3, and maybe taking a chance with their home/road splits, so be it. Those splits might be good numbers to base everything off with all other things being equal, but I'll bet that pitchers splits vs the Phillies as opposed to the Dbacks would be even more extreme.
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That's a good question. The Brewers really hurt themselves by not capitalizing with runners on 3rd and less than 2 outs in both the 8th and 9th on Monday (I think that was the case at least). Win that game and we can play whoever we want wherever we want. It also didn't help that the Dodgers had friggin 2 outs and nobody on up by 5 runs in the bottom of the 10th and lost that game. Wow. But we could've controlled Monday, not that game. It also would've been nice if the Diamondbacks would've played a day game today. But instead, I say you have to go all out. Would love for the Braves to be the Wild Card and get them at home. Avoiding the Diamondbacks would be nice, and the Braves are struggling to the finish. It would be especially nice if they get in through a 1 game playoff. Waste a pitcher, 1 day less of rest, and their day off is spent traveling to Milwaukee.
By the way, what a b!tch Reyes is. Bunt for a single and then take yourself out of a game to try to win a batting title. Here's to hoping Braun goes 4-4 to pass him. Would serve him right.
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Yeah, that sucked. I'm curious though how much winning the batting title would earn Reyes this offseason. Given the studies into how much more a player that hits .301 earns compared to one that hits .299, I wouldn't be shocked if it got him an extra year or some extra cash. Naturally theres no way to empirically prove that one way or the other, just an interesting thought (though it shouldn't be and should be stupid/not matter).
PS, fwiw word on the street is that a 3/4 night would give Braun the title as well. I'm too dumb to know what a 3/5 would do.
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Yeah, that sucked. I'm curious though how much winning the batting title would earn Reyes this offseason. Given the studies into how much more a player that hits .301 earns compared to one that hits .299, I wouldn't be shocked if it got him an extra year or some extra cash. Naturally theres no way to empirically prove that one way or the other, just an interesting thought (though it shouldn't be and should be stupid/not matter).
PS, fwiw word on the street is that a 3/4 night would give Braun the title as well. I'm too dumb to know what a 3/5 would do.
3-5 wouldn't get it done. Needs to go 3-4, 4-4, 4-5, or 5-5.
I'm also loving Hairston at 3rd base. Should've happened right when Rickie started playing entire games.
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Yeah, that sucked. I'm curious though how much winning the batting title would earn Reyes this offseason. Given the studies into how much more a player that hits .301 earns compared to one that hits .299, I wouldn't be shocked if it got him an extra year or some extra cash. Naturally theres no way to empirically prove that one way or the other, just an interesting thought (though it shouldn't be and should be stupid/not matter).
PS, fwiw word on the street is that a 3/4 night would give Braun the title as well. I'm too dumb to know what a 3/5 would do.
3/4 makes it, 3/3 makes it. 3/5 fails.
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I feel great about the Crew being in, but can't believe that whining drunk La Russa and the Cardinals snuck in.
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Wow, what an incredible 5 ins of baseball. Unbelievable. Can not imagine being a Red Sox or Braves fan right now.
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Yeah, that sucked. I'm curious though how much winning the batting title would earn Reyes this offseason. Given the studies into how much more a player that hits .301 earns compared to one that hits .299, I wouldn't be shocked if it got him an extra year or some extra cash. Naturally theres no way to empirically prove that one way or the other, just an interesting thought (though it shouldn't be and should be stupid/not matter).
PS, fwiw word on the street is that a 3/4 night would give Braun the title as well. I'm too dumb to know what a 3/5 would do.
Not saying that I condone it, but doesnt he, ahead in the chase for the batting title, have the right to do what he wants about it? Its similar to the Yankees going out there and pitching everyone in their bullpen... they earned the right to do that.
Its not very sporting of Reyes, but lets face it... he is no Teddy Ballgame.
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Not saying that I condone it, but doesnt he, ahead in the chase for the batting title, have the right to do what he wants about it? Its similar to the Yankees going out there and pitching everyone in their bullpen... they earned the right to do that.
Its not very sporting of Reyes, but lets face it... he is no Teddy Ballgame.
Chances are Reyes has some sort of contract bonus built-in if he won a batting title... if so, hundreds of K's (and not the strike three variety either) may have been on the line. A cheap move? To us, yes. To Reyes, quite the opposite.
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He has no incentives for a batting title.
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Chances are Reyes has some sort of contract bonus built-in if he won a batting title... if so, hundreds of K's (and not the strike three variety either) may have been on the line. A cheap move? To us, yes. To Reyes, quite the opposite.
According to multiple reports, he had no financial incentives or bonus for winning a batting title. Also quoted today he pulled himself for his teammates, so they could celebrate with him.
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He has no incentives for a batting title.
Except the cache a free agent has when he can say he is the raining batting champ. May get him an extra couple million in the offseason.
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Except the cache a free agent has when he can say he is the raining batting champ. May get him an extra couple million in the offseason.
Maybe it will offset the several million he will likely lose because of his crappy hamstrings.
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According to multiple reports, he had no financial incentives or bonus for winning a batting title. Also quoted today he pulled himself for his teammates, so they could celebrate with him.
I'm actually fairly certain that personal achievement incentives are prohibited from mlb contracts. So its a weird thing where the batting title, stolen base title, etc can't be included in incentives whereas the cy young or mvp can. Because those latter awards are voted on and wouldn't play into individual decisions like Reyes', they can be used. It also explains why K-Rods incentive was for games finished, not games saved. Otherwise he might be incentivized to allow the occasional runner to transform non-save into save situations.
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Otherwise he might be incentivized to allow the occasional runner to transform non-save into save situations.
You can't create a save situation for yourself; the best you can do is blow a save and hope for a W. He could create/destroy a save situation for others, but that wouldn't do him any good.