MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on November 08, 2010, 10:59:29 PM
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/1019920.html
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http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/1019920.html (http://scouthoops.scout.com/2/1019920.html)
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/54699/derrick-wilson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGvzN9eLsf0
http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/1622/Wilson-Out-to-Prove-a-Point.php
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/54699/derrick-wilson
ESPN scouting report. Sure sounds like the kind of kid Buzz says he wants.
Strengths:
A physically imposing guard, Wilson is built like a tank with terrific muscle mass and definition. He plays the game with a warrior's mentality, competing with toughness and intensity on both ends of the ball. He has an aggressive scorer's mindset, constantly looking to attack the defense, and able to put points on the board both by overpowering defenders en route to the rim or also from the perimeter with a much improved skill set. He will also rise to challenges defensively, using his upper body strength and physicality to keep his man from getting to his sweet spots.
Weaknesses:
While Wilson typically plays with the ball in his hands at the moment, he isn't a pure point guard, and projects as a scoring combo at the next level at best. He needs to prove that he can make decisions and get the team into their offense while handling the ball against pressure in the backcourt. He is probably most naturally suited to play off the ball but is undersized at that position. He also isn't overly quick or bouncy and so he can have occasional defensive problems away from the basket and rarely finishes above the rim.
Bottom Line:
What Wilson lacks in height, quickness, and bounce he makes up for with power, intensity, and aggressiveness. While he isn't the type of pure point guard who makes his teammates better with his ability to facilitate offense, he leads by example with his toughness and work ethic and makes his teammates better by forcing them to raise the bar. He needs to continue to develop his point guard skill set and improve his ability to run a team in a half court set.
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Rosiak makes it official via twitter
http://twitter.com/Todd_Rosiak
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGvzN9eLsf0
Did you hear those teams mentioned? That was back in June.
Glad to have you in Blue and Gold, Derrick! :D
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Two down, one to go. Welcome to MU Derrick!
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I am guessing (hoping) we bank the last one since its late in the process and there are not that many high quality guys remaining
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Sounds a lot like junior. Love the offers from nd, ga tech, bc, syracuse and st. John's etc., and 19 ppg, 9 asp, 6 steals and 7 rpg as a junior sounds strong in st connecticut. Also, for those of you who want mu to take up football again, looks like he had d1 offers at running back too!
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Sounds a lot more like Raymond Felton.
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Sounds like Sherron Collins
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I love the last article about him. I hope he's willing to do anything for the team when he comes here.
good luck Derrick welcome to MU
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Sounds a lot like junior. Love the offers from nd, ga tech, bc, syracuse and st. John's etc., and 19 ppg, 9 asp, 6 steals and 7 rpg as a junior sounds strong in st connecticut. Also, for those of you who want mu to take up football again, looks like he had d1 offers at running back too!
I'll take a solid offer list over number of stars any day of the week. The offer from Syracuse makes me feel pretty good about the commit.
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Going to college on the East Coast, The Hotchkiss School is a serious boarding school. So the kid will have no academic problems!
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A nice big man would make this a fantastic recruiting class. We now have our deepest roster in years..
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I'm still on the fence about this one. Another 6-1 guard wasn't high on my list, but if Buzz thinks he can play, I give him the benefit of the doubt.
I'd love to see him bring in Breunig. That way you have one big time player, one depth guy, and a low-risk guy to develop.
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A nice big man would make this a fantastic recruiting class.
Hopefully we can get a gift from God ;)
In all seriousness, this is a good idea. Every time Buzz talks about this season he says he is worried about PG it seems. We don't want to go back to the days when Marcus Jackson or Fitz brought it up. We have been spoiled by Diener, DJ, and Mo, but we cannot take PG for granted. This kid sounds like he adds a nice dimension in strength. Glad to have him.
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We have to land at least land a descent big for our last schollie. MU should be extremely attractive, as the Big man has the opportunity to earn/play a lot of minutes as a freshman! Get Er Done Buzz!
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With his size and football background he makes me think he could be a larger Tony Miller.... One of our best pure point guards ever.
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http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/High-School-AAU/#HoopHall-Classic-Scouting-Reports-Part-Two-3087
Joseph Treutlein
Derrick Wilson was one of the nicer surprises of the first two days, showing a very impressive game for a sophomore point guard, pouring in 30 points in 30 minutes on 11-for-22 shooting, while also pulling in 7 rebounds, dishing out 4 assists, and making 2 blocks and 2 steals.
Wilson isn't super athletic for a point guard, though considering he has a little baby fat to lose, and is already 6'2 as a sophomore, it's way too early to conclude that he has any limitations physically, as he's clearly not done growing and clearly is nowhere near his athletic potential. Regardless, he makes very good use of his strong frame now, and doesn't let his lack of top-end speed hold him back, showing an excellent grasp of speed and direction changes, putting on a nice display of dribble-driving here.
He went exclusively to the right in his one game here, though he never made it seem that way, as he incorporated pivots, hop steps, hesitation dribbles, hand changes, and other moves to throw off his defender, while going all the way to the rim on some occasions and pulling up in the lane on others. His repertoire on the dribble-drive at this age is very impressive, and even more so is his ability to use it. He also shows good body control and ability to adjust in traffic, but even though he makes good use of the high glass on some of his attempts, his finishing ability leaves a little to be desired, though it's in part due to his just average explosiveness.
Wilson didn't rely on his jump shot much, so it's hard to accurately assess it, but his form looked fairly solid on the few attempts we saw. He hit just 1-of-3 from behind the arc, though the one make was a rushed shot at the end of the shot clock that he luckily banked in.
As a point guard, Wilson showed no problems bringing the ball up the floor, handling pressure well, moving the ball around, and making a few simple drive-and-kicks. It's questionable how good his vision and his ability to create for others are, being hard to judge on a team that obviously relies on his scoring.
Looking forward, Wilson appears to have a successful future ahead of him, showing good maturity at his age with a well-developed skill set, while he's also already 6'2 with decent athleticism as a high school sophomore. If he can grow a few inches and/or improve his quickness/explosiveness, he could turn into an interesting prospect, especially if he continues to expand his skill set.
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Welcome to Marquette Derrick!
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My last post... Sorry I get excited.
http://www.examiner.com/connecticut-high-school-sports-in-hartford/prep-school-notebook-meet-derrick-wilson
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Two down, one to go. Welcome to MU Derrick!
And on that note, scholarship table finally updated.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8
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Am I being unfair in having an initial reaction that wonders if the combination of starting Buycks at the point Saturday and signing Wilson might somehow be an indicator that Buzz is concerned that Junior might not be the anchor point guard for the next 3 years? I hope it is unfounded, but it really was my first thought at the news.
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Good speculation. Somebody will be riding the pines.
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I don't think this says anything about JC. It's about about adding depth to the backcourt. You certainly can't have only one person bring the ball up the entire game. I am very pleased by this commitment and think that having three solid point guards is a smart thing. Look at injuries in years past where we relied on guy and got burnt because we had no quality backups. I think that everyone questioning each and every recruit is g to continue due to Buzz recruiting high quality player after high quality player. I can't remember us arguing about where to find playing time for each player like te board has this year. That's a good problem to have in my eyes.
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Buzz seems to have no problem playing 2 PGs at a time. With Wilson (from ESPN) being a hard nosed get to the basket 'PG' that can take care of the ball, I'm not sure we wouldn't be seeing lineups with a PG, a combo guard and a true 2 with a couple of athletic wings out there.
I still don't see a huge deal about recruiting big men. I'd take a couple 6'7" long wings any day :)
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This summer’s Gauchos squad featured a number of highly talented perimeter players, who all needed the ball in their hands to be effective. Wilson stepped up and played out of position, often times matching up with opposing frontcourt players, to do whatever was necessary to help his team win games.
“We had a team full of guards and no one wanted to play inside,” he said. “I took that responsibility. I think that’s what college coaches look for is someone who will do whatever it takes to win games.”
While Wilson undoubtedly helped his team win games, his sacrifice came at a deep personal cost as many criticized his lack of point production throughout the month.
Sounds like a perfect fit for Buzz and MU.
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Am I being unfair in having an initial reaction that wonders if the combination of starting Buycks at the point Saturday and signing Wilson might somehow be an indicator that Buzz is concerned that Junior might not be the anchor point guard for the next 3 years? I hope it is unfounded, but it really was my first thought at the news.
All these reports say he's currently plays point, but doesn't really have a PG mentality...he's more of a two guard with good ball handling skills. You can run him in the same backcourt as JC...or Reggie...or Blue...or whomever.
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I am guessing (hoping) we bank the last one since its late in the process and there are not that many high quality guys remaining
I'm thinking a JUCO forward.
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All these reports say he's currently plays point, but doesn't really have a PG mentality...he's more of a two guard with good ball handling skills. You can run him in the same backcourt as JC...or Reggie...or Blue...or whomever.
Sounds like Cubillan
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sounds like Zack McCall, esp with the Syracuse conection
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Sounds like Cubillan
Maybe a bigger version. I think the Sherron Collins comparison is a good one...and I'm not saying he's got Collins' talent.
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With his football pedigree, he sounds like Tony Miller...I'd take that!
(I had to jump on the "he sounds like" train.)
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It sounds like a good pick-up for Marquette. He shouldn't play to much in his freshmen season and learn from the others and be a force in his final two seasons.
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Am I being unfair in having an initial reaction that wonders if the combination of starting Buycks at the point Saturday and signing Wilson might somehow be an indicator that Buzz is concerned that Junior might not be the anchor point guard for the next 3 years? I hope it is unfounded, but it really was my first thought at the news.
Yes, you are being unfair. Having 3 point guards on a roster is an ideal number and basically they each will be from different classes when he arrives (Cadougan-Jr, Smith - So, Wilson - Fr). Its about depth. We need about three PGs, three big men (Otule, Gardner right now...maybe EWill?) and the other 7 can be what Buzz calls "switchables."
Solid pick-up and reminds me a lot of Sherron Collins, who's biggest asset was his leadership and toughness, not pure skill or athleticism.
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Am I being unfair in having an initial reaction that wonders if the combination of starting Buycks at the point Saturday and signing Wilson might somehow be an indicator that Buzz is concerned that Junior might not be the anchor point guard for the next 3 years? I hope it is unfounded, but it really was my first thought at the news.
My thought was he was hiding Cadougan, so Wilson would commit to MU. :D
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I would be shocked if Buzz was not playing Jr too much because he wanted to get Wilson to commit. I also don't think that Cuse was recruiting him at this point. I think that was back after his Soph season when he was rated higher nationally.
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sounds like Zack McCall, esp with the Syracuse conection
Why--does he puff the weed like McCall did?
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Yes, you are being unfair. Having 3 point guards on a roster is an ideal number and basically they each will be from different classes when he arrives (Cadougan-Jr, Smith - So, Wilson - Fr). Its about depth. We need about three PGs, three big men (Otule, Gardner right now...maybe EWill?) and the other 7 can be what Buzz calls "switchables."
Solid pick-up and reminds me a lot of Sherron Collins, who's biggest asset was his leadership and toughness, not pure skill or athleticism.
+1 - Excellent analysis. Buzz has said at one point he would like to recruit 1 PG in every class. Clearly this kid has VERY good character and it would be highly unlikely he would grow disgruntled not seeing much PT his freshman and sophomor years...but...by the time he's a junior..he'll be fully ready to go, Big East ready. What many of us as MU fans lack is an understanding of how to build a roster for long term success - due to our past 30 years of recruiting rarely ever netting more than 5-7 high major players on the roster simulatneously. This kid definitely fits the culture of MU and Buzz and having solid point guard play is the first step toward ensuring success.
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Physically and game description are between Collins and Cubillan like others have pointed out. Effort and luck will determine the impact. With the team make-up right now, you'd like to see a pure PG or a pure shooter but perhaps the thought is gather your acorns and see which one is a nut.
It also shows that the excuses brought up by fans regarding recruiting hold no water. We are stacked at the 1 and 2 and yet we get a commit on that side of the squiggly line. Let's not get lazy and claim we missed on certain other guys because we had too much talent at their position(s). You get what you can.
Playing with the Gauchos is nothing to sneer at. It takes talent to run on that crew and I'd imagine Wilson is the kind of a kid who has a deep motor. Welcome to the family, Mr. Wilson (#2).
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Physically and game description are between Collins and Cubillan like others have pointed out. Effort and luck will determine the impact. With the team make-up right now, you'd like to see a pure PG or a pure shooter but perhaps the thought is gather your acorns and see which one is a nut.
It also shows that the excuses brought up by fans regarding recruiting hold no water. We are stacked at the 1 and 2 and yet we get a commit on that side of the squiggly line. Let's not get lazy and claim we missed on certain other guys because we had too much talent at their position(s). You get what you can.
Playing with the Gauchos is nothing to sneer at. It takes talent to run on that crew and I'd imagine Wilson is the kind of a kid who has a deep motor. Welcome to the family, Mr. Wilson (#2).
Good points Lanche...though I will say that the true PG competition next year likely will center around Cadougan and Smith with Wilson being the 3rd. Competition for wing slots 2,3,4 positions next year will include, Blue, DJO, Jones, Jamil Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Erik Williams - basically that is 6 players for 2.5 slots...alread about 3 dep at each position 2, 3 and 4..with kids who are virtually all consensus Top 100 talents.
Shaw was the clear "misss" that you couldn't attribute to "too much competition" at his slot...but I do think that Hood, Faust and Harrison all were going to be tough to land given where they chose to play and the availability of clear, immediate plaaying time at those schools at their position.
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Am I being unfair in having an initial reaction that wonders if the combination of starting Buycks at the point Saturday and signing Wilson might somehow be an indicator that Buzz is concerned that Junior might not be the anchor point guard for the next 3 years? I hope it is unfounded, but it really was my first thought at the news.
Buzz has said in the past he would like to recruit a 1 and a 5 in every single class.
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Why--does he puff the weed like McCall did?
Marquette has a long and proud tradition of Point Guard Herbsmen - Marcus Sparkus, Lucky Lloyd, Sudden Sam, Peyote Zack, and the Hillcrest Bogarts of Roach Clip Jerel and Smokin Mo.
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Shaw was the clear "misss" that you couldn't attribute to "too much competition" at his slot...but I do think that Hood, Faust and Harrison all were going to be tough to land given where they chose to play and the availability of clear, immediate plaaying time at those schools at their position.
Do you truly think that too much competition turns top recruits away from MU? I don't think any high-major recruit looks at MU's roster for next year and thinks, "I can't compete with Vander Blue and Junior Cadougan! I'm picking a different school!" They're more than likely to think, "I'm better than those guys. I'll play right away." Honestly, if they don't have that mind-set, they're probably not going to see the floor much no matter where you choose to play.
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Hood, Faust and Shaw all picked the local public university. Harrison is the only one that went somewhere else and publically stated that playing time was a reason. Let's not go thinking that they didn't pick MU because we have too much talent.
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Let's not go thinking that they didn't pick MU because we have too much talent.
What happened with Marquette's recruiting in the immediate aftermath of the Final Four? Death Valley was more lush.
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Do you truly think that too much competition turns top recruits away from MU? I don't think any high-major recruit looks at MU's roster for next year and thinks, "I can't compete with Vander Blue and Junior Cadougan! I'm picking a different school!" They're more than likely to think, "I'm better than those guys. I'll play right away." Honestly, if they don't have that mind-set, they're probably not going to see the floor much no matter where you choose to play.
If they are that good, they are being recruited by North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, Michigan St. the marque programs that they can expect to play in the final four with. Blue has been our highest ranked recruit in a long time and it does not look like he is going to start. They may accept not starting as a freshmen, but they will expect to start after that. MU's team is very young, which means someone may not start for at least two years. That I see as a hindrance.
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What happened with Marquette's recruiting in the immediate aftermath of the Final Four? Death Valley was more lush.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e5/Kommander_Cool/Random/THREADJACK.gif)
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Welcome 2 the Warrior den, Derrick!!!
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Do you truly think that too much competition turns top recruits away from MU? I don't think any high-major recruit looks at MU's roster for next year and thinks, "I can't compete with Vander Blue and Junior Cadougan! I'm picking a different school!" They're more than likely to think, "I'm better than those guys. I'll play right away." Honestly, if they don't have that mind-set, they're probably not going to see the floor much no matter where you choose to play.
Yes - high major talent is not accustomed to sitting on the bench for 2 years..and wants to get the opportunity to showcase its talent as much as possible. Most kids in the 25-50 range are NOT going to be better as a freshman than a sophomore or junior in the program rated between 50-100. Now, the truly ELITE..Top 25 kids..sure most of them probably can/could come in and get immediate playing time.
Another way of looking at it: If you were a coach, would you believe it would be easier to sign a kid/land a kid if you could show him your roster and say - look...we basically have no players returning at your postion, no Top 100 players in your path to a starting spot - as opposed to selling what Buzz had to sell to Faust, Hood, and Harrison this year?
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Good points all around in response to my inquiry about Wilson's recruitment, and I had forgotten about Buzz's stated strategy of a PG with each class. I am impressed by what I hear about Wilson and am glad he is in the fold. I also remain enthusiastic about our team with Cadougan as PG.
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Where can I get a list of offers we still have out?
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Another way of looking at it: If you were a coach, would you believe it would be easier to sign a kid/land a kid if you could show him your roster and say - look...we basically have no players returning at your postion, no Top 100 players in your path to a starting spot - as opposed to selling what Buzz had to sell to Faust, Hood, and Harrison this year?
It depends who you're recruiting. Some kids would happily sign with a mediocre team so that they could play right away. Others would look at the roster with no one at their position and no Top 100 recruits and decide that they'd rather play for a more talented team. Personally, I'd want a kid who doesn't care who's on the roster or who he has to compete with because he plans to earn PT regardless. I do NOT want the kid who thinks he's going to walk in and start right away and views competition as a bad thing.
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It depends who you're recruiting. Some kids would happily sign with a mediocre team so that they could play right away. Others would look at the roster with no one at their position and no Top 100 recruits and decide that they'd rather play for a more talented team. Personally, I'd want a kid who doesn't care who's on the roster or who he has to compete with because he plans to earn PT regardless. I do NOT want the kid who thinks he's going to walk in and start right away and views competition as a bad thing.
Aren't you partially contradicting yourself..as in a previous post you stated you wouldn't want a kid who didn't think he could come in and play right away (or at least with the mentality that they come to MU with the notion that they are better than a Vander or Junior)..but now you don't want the kid who thinks he's going to walk in and start right away?
I think the gist of what you are saying I agree with..and that is you don't want a player who views competition as a bad thing. But..to fully discount the value of a "clear path" to immediate playing time seems a bit...don't want to say naive....but something along those lines..
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Sounds a lot more like Raymond Felton.
Except for the fact that Felton is/was lightning fast up the floor and had an extremely explosive first step when driving to the basket.
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Aren't you partially contradicting yourself..as in a previous post you stated you wouldn't want a kid who didn't think he could come in and play right away (or at least with the mentality that they come to MU with the notion that they are better than a Vander or Junior)..but now you don't want the kid who thinks he's going to walk in and start right away?
I think the gist of what you are saying I agree with..and that is you don't want a player who views competition as a bad thing. But..to fully discount the value of a "clear path" to immediate playing time seems a bit...don't want to say naive....but something along those lines..
It's not contradicting if you read the entire sentence. Maybe I should have said that I don't want the kid who expects to walk in and start without having to compete for the job. MU actually had one of those guys for the first half of the season last year.
I wasn't discounting the value of a "clear path." I was just saying that I would prefer the kid who fully intends to work hard and earn his PT over the kid with LeBron's "take the easiest path" mentality.
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Great to hear we added a point guard. Buzz has stated repeatedly his hope is to get a point guard and a big in every class. If we can just get God's Gift as well, this will be a very successful recruiting year, even if it doesn't match some of the hopes we had before.
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Great to hear we added a point guard. Buzz has stated repeatedly his hope is to get a point guard and a big in every class. If we can just get God's Gift as well, this will be a very successful recruiting year, even if it doesn't match some of the hopes we had before.
God's Gift would make everyone very, very happy.
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God's Gift would make everyone very, very happy.
Not everyone. Adding a JUCO in this class doesn't make much sense, regardless of whether it's a 1 year or 2 year JUCO. Too much roster imbalance, and that's never a good thing.
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Does a 6'9" German make sense BMA?
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Not everyone. Adding a JUCO in this class doesn't make much sense, regardless of whether it's a 1 year or 2 year JUCO. Too much roster imbalance, and that's never a good thing.
if he is the best player buzz can still sign and if he is the player in buzz's mind that best helps make Mu a better team next year than it makes 100% sense.
please
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Not everyone. Adding a JUCO in this class doesn't make much sense, regardless of whether it's a 1 year or 2 year JUCO. Too much roster imbalance, and that's never a good thing.
The biggest issue we have with roster imbalance is next year's senior class, where we only have two. (Jae and DJO). Getting a one year JUCO may help with that.
The other issue is this year's freshman class...where we have Blue, Smith, Jones, Gardner, and Wilson joining them as a sophomore next year. That's five.
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Does a 6'9" German make sense BMA?
Maybe. Depends on exactly what you're looking for with the last scholarship.
if he is the best player buzz can still sign and if he is the player in buzz's mind that best helps make Mu a better team next year than it makes 100% sense.
please
No, it doesn't. Instant gratification isn't always what's best for the program, sometimes the situation dictates that you build for the long term future and not just next year. It's hard to be a consistently elite level program when you continually have large recruiting classes and are replacing nearly half the team because you didn't give a damn about roster imbalance.
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The biggest issue we have with roster imbalance is next year's senior class, where we only have two. (Jae and DJO). Getting a one year JUCO may help with that.
The other issue is this year's freshman class...where we have Blue, Smith, Jones, Gardner, and Wilson joining them as a sophomore next year. That's five.
By one year JUCO I mean someone who spent one year at a JUCO, not someone who has one year left. Getting one of them would create another 6 person class, meaning once again you'd have basically half the team being brand new in that particular year.
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Maybe Singleton gets lucky out of the banked scholarship.
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By one year JUCO I mean someone who spent one year at a JUCO, not someone who has one year left. Getting one of them would create another 6 person class, meaning once again you'd have basically half the team being brand new in that particular year.
OK...makes sense. And another two year JUCO causes issues with this year's sophomore class with Williams, Otule and Junior...you would then have a class of four followed by a class of five.
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Maybe. Depends on exactly what you're looking for with the last scholarship.
No, it doesn't. Instant gratification isn't always what's best for the program, sometimes the situation dictates that you build for the long term future and not just next year. It's hard to be a consistently elite level program when you continually have large recruiting classes and are replacing nearly half the team because you didn't give a damn about roster imbalance.
Roster balance is an issue but way way down the list. You could have a perfectly balanced roster and the team stink or the recruiting be terrible. Balance is a factor to consider but way way down the list.
On top of the list is getting the best players possible. For example Jamil Wilson is coming to Mu if he wants to regardless of balance. If Buzz thinks a Juco player best hlps Mu compete in the BE next year and best helps Mu compete deep in to March then I absolutely guarantee you that roster imbalance of one player is almost meaningless to him.
In fact consider it this way. A juco PF for example Buzz feel is the the kid that can help most next year but imbalances the classes. While he has another HS PF that he likes but does not feel he can contribute for two years but will help keep the classes balnced.
Who does he take....no brainer!!
If nothing else the deep run the Juco PF potentially heklps u acheive makes recruitng easier into the future. Win Now baby...same reason coaches rarely bank a scholie.
i respect your knowledge and info on whom Mu is recruitng but you are way off and unrealistic on this one. Roster balance is way doen the list when evaluating a potential player.
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Adding a juco only makes sense, if he is projected to play significant minutes his senior year. We do not need a juco that is not going to get off the bench and take away a scholarship from the next class. God's Gift sounds like he would play, so I would be happy with him. The German player would have four years to contribute, so he does not have to have an immediate impact. As far as balance classes, you never know if a player is going to get injured and redshirt or if a player is going to transfer out.
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Come March there will be 5-10 decent players available due to transfer or because they are released from there letter because the coach who recruited them is fired. Unless the player is really good I'd take my chances in Spring.
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Roster imbalance is a concern, but bringing a 2 or 3 year player at say PF means you have less playing time to offer the 4 year player. We have been arguing that the big names want playing time, why would you crowd the field and imbalance the classes further limiting your ability to land the big name? We think this is the deepest team we've had in years, and I agree so why clutter the roster for anyone other than THE missing piece, which I don't see out there right now?
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By one year JUCO I mean someone who spent one year at a JUCO, not someone who has one year left. Getting one of them would create another 6 person class, meaning once again you'd have basically half the team being brand new in that particular year.
God's Gift will be a sophomore this year. If he came on as a JUCO transfer, he would join us as a junior along with Cadougan, Otule, and Williams. I don't think that would lead to that unbalanced of a class...4 new recruits is fine, most recruiting classes should probably be between 2-4.
And while it's unlikely that any player will go pro, God's Gift's coach is already talking about it as a possibility. Whether he is a 4-year player or a 2-year JUCO, if we can put a power forward in the league, I have to think it will be great for us in terms of future big man recruiting. Averaging 13/13 as a freshman, he seems to have upside, and will likely come in more polished than a freshman would.
Looking ahead, it seems like a solid power forward could be the missing link for those two years. Otule and Gardner may not be stars, but I think they'll be a solid center rotation. Jones and Wilson both look to have tremendous upside at the three position. And guys like Cadougan, Blue, and Smith give us some nice options at the guard positions (not to mention another year of Crowder and DJO).
Yet we still have a gaping hole at the four. No one really projects there. I think that if we managed to add Achiuwa as a JUCO transfer, he could truly be God's Gift to Marquette (sorry...had to take the pun).
EDIT: And another thought on Wilson joining...the timing seems perfect to me. His freshman year he probably won't be expected to play much, as most freshmen aren't. His sophomore year will be Cadougan's senior year, and the year after DJO has left. That means that Wilson can compete for time with Blue, Smith, and Cadougan, with the youth edge that means that his time should increase as those guys graduate over the two years afterward. In terms of roster balance between classes, he comes in at the perfect time and should have an opportunity to shine come his junior and senior years.
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Except for the fact that Felton is/was lightning fast up the floor and had an extremely explosive first step when driving to the basket.
Instead of Raymond Felton, how about Butch Lee!!!
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Dont forget about Singleton. He is in the class with Cadougan, Otule and Williams. That is a 4 man class, and a JUCO would make it 5. Even thought Singleton wont be on scholarship, he will likely be a contributer by the time he leaves.
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Dont forget about Singleton. He is in the class with Cadougan, Otule and Williams. That is a 4 man class, and a JUCO would make it 5. Even thought Singleton wont be on scholarship, he will likely be a contributer by the time he leaves.
Irrelevant in my opinion. We're talking about balancing recruiting classes, which only factors in scholarship players. He'll get a prime spot on the media guide that year as a senior, any minutes he plays will be gravy, but his presence will have zero impact on our recruiting unless he ends up on scholarship, which I would say is highly unlikely at best.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
Thanks for your concern, but I wouldn't worry too much for us. Last year we played with a backcourt of mid-major guards Maurice Acker and David Cubillan and went to the NCAA tournament.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
That might be spot on, but he definitely adds to the bench as a solid player.
Especially as Vander and Reggie start to mature and take over.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
Impressed that a St. Johns fan after 3-4 good signings now is the end all when it comes to player evaluation. Buzz Williams is working on his 4th recruiting class and has not yet signed a single player that is not already or does not project to be a high major player. I will defer to Buzz over you Johnny. Lastly, Mu is so deep at PG that Derrick will not be counted on to play as a Freshman. He will have 2 other PG's on the roster when he gets to MU. One a Top 50 recruit and another who was arguably the surprise of our exhibition game with 7 assists and no turnovers. Additionally, we have a Top 25 recruit that can also play the point.
Derrick has been given an opportunity play for a top echelon Big East team that has proven over the last two years to get the very best out of it's players. If he excels and earns playing time he will play, if not he will not. MU is extremely deep including a walk-on that started at a D1 school. The competition amazing at every position. I love the signing and am not in the least bit concerned that our program will suffer if he does not live up to your standards. Read his article with the Milwaukee paper, he knows what is in front of him and is not afraid of the challenge. Our kind of kid.
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Buzz Williams is working on his 4th recruiting class and has not yet signed a single player that is not already or does not project to be a high major player.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm certainly not going to single out anyone on MU's roster (Newbill was "signed" but is not on the roster), but I'm really trying to figure out what the heck your statement even means. Sounds great, but not sure it really means anything at all.
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It means no more Ball State/ Rice University transfers.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
Thanks for your input..that said..I saw on the Scout board a fan of another school...I believe Georgetown/Syracuse kind of dogged this kid..by saying the same thing as you above. In the end, perhaps you are right..but..i can promise you one thing..i would NEVER bet against a kid who has a tough makeup, character, and good athletic ability...cand develope into under a coach like Buzz Williams who is able to extract every ounce of talent out of his players. Jim Calhoun said it best last year..does MU have the 5th best talent in the Big East?? Absolutely not..but they way they compete and play..they are the 5th best team. The good news is that we now have far more talent than ever in the Buzz Williams era and won't be starting a 5'8' PG and 5'10' 2 Guard.
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It means no more Ball State/ Rice University transfers.
Just ones from High Point...
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I appreciate other people posting here even if its not great. By everyones account Wilsons biggest strength is he plays hard and is tough, and without a doubt his rankings have slide. Also they listed him as 6-2 as a soph and he is now 6-1 so my guess is he was fully developed by 15 which gives him a Big advantage. Hopefully his willingness to work hard will pay off. Thanks for you input Jhonny.
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Impressed that a St. Johns fan after 3-4 good signings now is the end all when it comes to player evaluation. Buzz Williams is working on his 4th recruiting class and has not yet signed a single player that is not already or does not project to be a high major player. I will defer to Buzz over you Johnny. Lastly, Mu is so deep at PG that Derrick will not be counted on to play as a Freshman. He will have 2 other PG's on the roster when he gets to MU. One a Top 50 recruit and another who was arguably the surprise of our exhibition game with 7 assists and no turnovers. Additionally, we have a Top 25 recruit that can also play the point.
Derrick has been given an opportunity play for a top echelon Big East team that has proven over the last two years to get the very best out of it's players. If he excels and earns playing time he will play, if not he will not. MU is extremely deep including a walk-on that started at a D1 school. The competition amazing at every position. I love the signing and am not in the least bit concerned that our program will suffer if he does not live up to your standards. Read his article with the Milwaukee paper, he knows what is in front of him and is not afraid of the challenge. Our kind of kid.
I'm not slighting or questioning Buzz or Marquette just merely commenting. I come in peace, I just wanted to throw around some insight. I highly doubt anyone besides maybe Tim from Cracked Sidewalks has seen Wilson live in person.
If you ever seen anything or heard anything I do you'd know I'm a big time Buzz supporter. I'm not a Wilson fan though but like I said in my last post I wish him the best. ::)
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I should also add what the heck does whatever St. John's do have to do with my opinion of Wilson? ?-(
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I should also add what the heck does whatever St. John's do have to do with my opinion of Wilson? ?-(
It was just one guy making a snide comment. I also think some guys are kinda pissed/frustrated to see St. John's getting so many ridiculously good recruits out of nowhere when they haven't done anything in years.
Ill admit, Im kinda one of them a little [But I would be glad to see another BB-only school getting talent over the other Big East schools..Id love to have Nova, GTown, Marq and St. John's form a solid 4 Catholic powerhouses to challenge the top 4 football schools], especially when I never liked Steve Lavin back in his UCLA days with that douchey gelled back hair.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/54699/derrick-wilson
ESPN scouting report. Sure sounds like the kind of kid Buzz says he wants.
Strengths:
A physically imposing guard, Wilson is built like a tank with terrific muscle mass and definition. He plays the game with a warrior's mentality, competing with toughness and intensity on both ends of the ball.
Should be a prerequisite for any Marquette player.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
Thanks for your input. Like others have said, it sound like the scouts think he peaked a couple of years ago. I appreciate the insight of all who come in peace, even when the news isn't as good as I would have hoped.
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Thanks for your input..that said..I saw on the Scout board a fan of another school...I believe Georgetown/Syracuse kind of dogged this kid..by saying the same thing as you above
It'd be funny if it was a 'Cuse fan, since Syracuse also offered Wilson.
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especially when I never liked Steve Lavin back in his UCLA days with that douchey gelled back hair.
Not to pour the hate on Lavin, but I was really glad to hear that his mug and voice would no longer be on ESPN. I too hope St. John's can turn it around with him. Looks like he's off to a great start.
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I love Johnny Jungle.
You can tack his post on Wilson's locker every single game day, especially before and on the games versus St. John's.
MU and Wilson thank you for the "chip".
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I should also add what the heck does whatever St. John's do have to do with my opinion of Wilson? ?-(
Hah, I guess MU fans have gotten better at talking smack after a few years in the BE.
For those that haven't been paying attention, MUScoop and JohnnyJungle (which is a site, not just his username) have kind of grown up together in the new Big East as independent sites. Last year we had some friendly bets to switch the site design based on who won or lost the MU/STJ games. Luckily Johnny had to do all the switches last year, but either this year with their 35 seniors, or in the coming years with the talent that Lavin is stacking, we might have to deck ourselves out in red (which is sure to make MU fans think they're at a Wisconsin site)
Anyhow - thanks for your thoughts on Wilson. Sounds like the type of guy Buzz likes, and I hope he's just a bit under-rated. As others have mentioned though, at this point he'll have at least a year before we'd need him to work himself into the rotation. But if he's really motivated to impress, we'd love to have him playing the first year.
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Just ones from High Point...
cmon man, I really have to waste the time and explain the difference between those
who WALK ON and those who are given scholarships.
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Welcome to MU, Derrick! May your career be as great as your attitude. A PG who is athletic enough to also be receiving D1 football offers. A coachable kid who willingly played out of position to help out the team. A leader who wants to be challenged, who wants to be coached, who wants to get better. A student athlete excelling academically at one of the toughest prep schools in the country. The only possible downside is the number of stars next to his name. But judging from who else he was considering, a lot of other institutions saw the same things Buzz and Aki saw.
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Welcome to MU, Derrick! May your career be as great as your attitude. A PG who is athletic enough to also be receiving D1 football offers. A coachable kid who willingly played out of position to help out the team. A leader who wants to be challenged, who wants to be coached, who wants to get better. A student athlete excelling academically at one of the toughest prep schools in the country. The only possible downside is the number of stars next to his name. But judging from who else he was considering, a lot of other institutions saw the same things Buzz and Aki saw.
Very well said.
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I'm not slighting or questioning Buzz or Marquette just merely commenting. I come in peace, I just wanted to throw around some insight. I highly doubt anyone besides maybe Tim from Cracked Sidewalks has seen Wilson live in person.
If you ever seen anything or heard anything I do you'd know I'm a big time Buzz supporter. I'm not a Wilson fan though but like I said in my last post I wish him the best. ::)
JohnnyJungle, thanks for your perspective. I appreciate a fairly objective take on the player. You've always been respectful and a good sport. Between you and Pico, SJU fans have good reps.
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if Wilson was out of his element at MU. Frankly (and this may be unfair), I don't think Aki has the best track record as a recruiter for Marquette.
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Just ones from High Point...
he is a walkon ...whole different deal.
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I'm not slighting or questioning Buzz or Marquette just merely commenting. I come in peace, I just wanted to throw around some insight. I highly doubt anyone besides maybe Tim from Cracked Sidewalks has seen Wilson live in person.
If you ever seen anything or heard anything I do you'd know I'm a big time Buzz supporter. I'm not a Wilson fan though but like I said in my last post I wish him the best. ::)
For comparisons sake...do you think he will be a better college player than say a Malik boothe?
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
I appreciate the observations from someone who has seen Wilson play, and JohnnyJungle has always been a good sport in the past so I don't see why anyone would view his comments as ripping MU or Buzz in any way. From what I've read, I love the make-up Wilson has (disciplined, mature, smart) and the toughness factor. Those traits, combined with what sounds like far better than average athletic ability, make for a pretty nice start for Buzz and the staff to mold. Add in the fact that he's always been splitting time between football and basketball up to this year, and I would expect he'd improve significantly going forward. I'm excited about the potential this kid seems to have.
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Welcome to MU, Derrick! May your career be as great as your attitude. A PG who is athletic enough to also be receiving D1 football offers. A coachable kid who willingly played out of position to help out the team. A leader who wants to be challenged, who wants to be coached, who wants to get better. A student athlete excelling academically at one of the toughest prep schools in the country. The only possible downside is the number of stars next to his name. But judging from who else he was considering, a lot of other institutions saw the same things Buzz and Aki saw.
Maybe Buzz is secretly reviving our Football program as well.
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Buzz Williams is working on his 4th recruiting class and has not yet signed a single player that is not already or does not project to be a high major player.
Canada: This is exagerated at best. Not all of Buzz's signees are high major players, yet. I guess that is what "project" means--whatever somebody "projects"--kind of like channeling. I would submit that the following signees are/were not "high major players":
Montrale Clark
Liam McMorrow
Mbao
Otule--he is a project in progress
Not saying I agree with the following as not being "high major players", but some would argue that they are not:
Erik Williams based on his progress so far
JC--some on this board have already given the playing time to Bucyks/Smith/Blue
Gardner
Point is Buzz has had his share of signees that were not high major players
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I would say Clark and McMorrow we really can't say one way or the other. Clark had his legal issues and McMorrow had so many injuries that we'll never know what kind of player he might have been. Mbao definitely didn't look like a high major during his limited time here, so I'd agree with that one. Otule has definitely been a project player as well.
But as far as the others...when you talk about recruiting, that's just silly. Erik Williams was a top 100 player with offers from Alabama, Baylor, and Texas A&M. Cadougan was a top 50 player with offers from Louisville, Texas, Memphis, and Tennessee. Gardner is the one guy in that second list you can argue a bit, but he's still a three-star player that went first team all-state in Virginia ahead of many four-star prospects and had another offer from a Big East school in South Florida.
I agree that CD's assessment of not signing a single player that isn't already or projecting as a high-major to be an overstatement, but not nearly by the extent you make it out to be. It's simply preposterous to say that from a recruiting standpoint, top 100 players don't project as "high-major" talents.
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could wilson also be the entree to Morris from Hotchkiss?
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cmon man, I really have to waste the time and explain the difference between those
who WALK ON and those who are given scholarships.
But we did give a scholarship to Brett Roseboro (St. Bonnies). And we did give a scholarship to Yous Mbao (Marshall). And we did give a scholarship to Liam McMorrow (Tennessee Tech). And we were giving a scholarship to DJ Newbill (Southern Miss) until the bus got full.
For now, those are the ones who are definitely not "high major" like Canadian Dimes wrote about.
But this is a discussion that can't be fruitful for another two years as 3/4 of Buzz' guys aren't even close to exhausting eligibility.
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could wilson also be the entree to Morris from Hotchkiss?
Jason Morris graduated and is a freshman at Georgia Tech.
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Jason Morris graduated and is a freshman at Georgia Tech.
So we'll have to wait for him to transfer to MU once Paul Hewitt gets the axe for underachiveing again this season ;)
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But we did give a scholarship to Brett Roseboro (St. Bonnies). And we did give a scholarship to Yous Mbao (Marshall). And we did give a scholarship to Liam McMorrow (Tennessee Tech). And we were giving a scholarship to DJ Newbill (Southern Miss) until the bus got full.
For now, those are the ones who are definitely not "high major" like Canadian Dimes wrote about.
But this is a discussion that can't be fruitful for another two years as 3/4 of Buzz' guys aren't even close to exhausting eligibility.
Oh yeah. I forgot about Roseboro. Another of Buzz's high major signees.
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Frankly (and this may be unfair), I don't think Aki has the best track record as a recruiter for Marquette.
Aki was the lead recruiter for Roseboro right? Do you think they went too far down their list for DWil?
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Frankly (and this may be unfair), I don't think Aki has the best track record as a recruiter for Marquette.
I think Tony Benford would have something to say about that.
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Aki was the lead recruiter for Roseboro right? Do you think they went too far down their list for DWil?
Definitely for Roseboro. The key phrase was "may be unfair". Actually, I'd be interested in compiling a list of primary recruiters (based on what we know) for each assistant.
THREADJACK!
Layer
Bowen
Monarch
Butler
Newbill
Buzz
Otule
EWill
Fulce
Wilson
Crowder
DJO
McMorrow
Benford
Blue
Mbao
Smith
Anderson
Cadougan
Maymon
Aki
Roseboro
DWil
Jamail Jones
Anyone else have better information on those? I always kind of thought that Aki did east coast, Benford worked Chicago/West Coast, and Monarch was the Juco/Texas person.
disclaimer: Any and all of this information may be completely inaccurate.
updated with info from GOMU1104... and bma
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I think Tony Benford would have something to say about that.
I don't understand what you mean.
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But we did give a scholarship to Brett Roseboro (St. Bonnies). And we did give a scholarship to Yous Mbao (Marshall). And we did give a scholarship to Liam McMorrow (Tennessee Tech). And we were giving a scholarship to DJ Newbill (Southern Miss) until the bus got full.
For now, those are the ones who are definitely not "high major" like Canadian Dimes wrote about.
But this is a discussion that can't be fruitful for another two years as 3/4 of Buzz' guys aren't even close to exhausting eligibility.
What determines high major? I would say being recruited by a high major school and actually playing determines that. And than there is a difference between playing at North Carolina, which is a bonified high major and playing at MU, which in my mind is a major school in a high major conference. Major falling between high major and mid-major. Let us be honest, if we are bounced from the Big East and end up in the Atlantic 10, we then would be considered a mid-major school. Buzz's recruiting focus is to continually upgrade the team from positions 1 through 13. Part of this upgrade includes the lower players moving on to other schools. My projection for Wilson is that he follows Dwight Burke's career path. Plays very little as a feshmen and sophomore and contributes significantly as a junior and senior. Which is the same path Eric Williams is on. As far as McMorrow we will get an idea of how good he could of been, since he will be playing this year. The same with Newbill. Roseborro did not want to do the work required here, but he was averaging 5+ points at St. Bonaventure before being injured, which means he probably scored more points than Eric Williams, Maymon, Mbao and Cadougan combined. At this point none of last years class qualifies as a high major player.
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I don't understand what you mean.
I mean...Tony Benford has a better track record than Aki Collins, so far.
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Unknown
Maymon
DJO
McMorrow
Cadougan
Crowder
Jamail Jones
Anyone else have better information on those? I always kind of thought that Aki did east coast, Benford worked Chicago/West Coast, and Monarch was the Juco/Texas person.
disclaimer: Any and all of this information may be completely inaccurate.
Maymon - Buzz
DJO - Buzz
McMorrow - Buzz
Cadougan - Benford
Crowder - Buzz
Jones - Collins
Newbill - Monarch, not Collins
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I mean...Tony Benford has a better track record than Aki Collins, so far.
yeah, totally agree.
I had assumed that Aki was also responsible for Newbill as well as Roseboro because he was the "east coast" person. Which gave him pretty low marks. But it appears that was unfair.
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Some of those could be characterized as being a team effort...i.e. Benford was heavily involved in the Maymon recruitment, to the point where Tim Maymon praised Benford's effort when Jeronne committed.
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Buzz Williams is working on his 4th recruiting class and has not yet signed a single player that is not already or does not project to be a high major player.
Really. You may want to go back in time a little bit the last few years and try again.
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I should also add what the heck does whatever St. John's do have to do with my opinion of Wilson? ?-(
Canadian Dimes is just cranky that he might have to change his username for the 7th time here because the guy he's touting may not start this year. Plus, the name "Mbao will be all Big East by year 4" was too long to fit into character limits of this board. So don't worry Johnny, he's just in one of his moods
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Canadian Dimes is just cranky that he might have to change his username for the 7th time here because the guy he's touting may not start this year. Plus, the name "Mbao will be all Big East by year 4" was too long to fit into character limits of this board. So don't worry Johnny, he's just in one of his moods
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Chicos, you have had more than you share of mistake-filled posts. Now, given these recruiting misses under the present regime, and what they have been replaced with..which do you feel is better?:
a) The roster and program would have been better off if Roseboro, Mbao, Newbill, and Maymon were still Warriors
OR
b)The roster and program aer better off having Devante Gardner, Crowder, Wilson, and Reggie Smith as Warriors?
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Ners, the question isn't which is better...but how we got there.
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Ners, the question isn't which is better...but how we got there.
Is it the journey or the destination?
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Ners, the question isn't which is better...but how we got there.
Even if looking at it that way..I don't see any problem with Mbao, Roseboro, or Maymon being gone. Maymon - we all know the deal there (but recruiting him very well helped our chances in getting Vander). Don't have any issue with Roseboro coming to MU realizing he was overmatched..and the staff telling him as much..so as not to waste the kids time on a Big East roster..instead giving him a chance to go elsewhere right away and have a college career. Basically the same on Mbao..take a flier..see how it plays out...doesn't work out...the kid transfers.
Nobody bats 100% in recruiting..and transfers are a part of life in high major ball..and are here to stay. To be "offeneded" or feel our staff didn't do right by these kids is ridiculous. Newbill...well..there is a lot of gray area there..but...in my mind that is the only recruit you can say has some gray area..
Listing Clark, McMorrow, etc...can't predict possible rape charges (which I believe were dropped), nor can yo u predict a heart problem..
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People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Chicos, you have had more than you share of mistake-filled posts. Now, given these recruiting misses under the present regime, and what they have been replaced with..which do you feel is better?:
a) The roster and program would have been better off if Roseboro, Mbao, Newbill, and Maymon were still Warriors
OR
b)The roster and program aer better off having Devante Gardner, Crowder, Wilson, and Reggie Smith as Warriors?
Yup, I've made a few mistakes and I own up to them. Canadian Dimes has never done that.....that is difference number one among many many many.
I was responding to CD's ridiculous claim that Buzz had not ONCE recruited anything but a high major player. Sorry, that's just plain crap.
As for your question, well that all depends now doesn't it. The Newbill thing was a joke as was Maymon. Never should have gone after Maymon in the first place, never should have treated a signed recruit like we did Newbill. From a talent perspective, yeah, we might have more talent. Will either of those things do longer term damage? We'll have to wait an see.
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Even if looking at it that way..I don't see any problem with Mbao, Roseboro, or Maymon being gone. Maymon - we all know the deal there (but recruiting him very well helped our chances in getting Vander). Don't have any issue with Roseboro coming to MU realizing he was overmatched..and the staff telling him as much..so as not to waste the kids time on a Big East roster..instead giving him a chance to go elsewhere right away and have a college career. Basically the same on Mbao..take a flier..see how it plays out...doesn't work out...the kid transfers.
Nobody bats 100% in recruiting..and transfers are a part of life in high major ball..and are here to stay. To be "offeneded" or feel our staff didn't do right by these kids is ridiculous. Newbill...well..there is a lot of gray area there..but...in my mind that is the only recruit you can say has some gray area..
Listing Clark, McMorrow, etc...can't predict possible rape charges (which I believe were dropped), nor can yo u predict a heart problem..
And you know this about Vander and Maymon how, exactly? Especially when he said it had no impact on his decision to go to MU.
I agree, nobody bats 1.000 nor should anyone expect them to. Taking a flier on someone is fine as well. It's just ironic as hell to hear some of these words come out for THIS coach. Secondly, calling CD out on those claims just had to be done. Finally, Sultan is right....does the end justify the means? Cura Personalis
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And you know this about Vander and Maymon how, exactly? Especially when he said it had no impact on his decision to go to MU.
I agree, nobody bats 1.000 nor should anyone expect them to. Taking a flier on someone is fine as well. It's just ironic as hell to hear some of these words come out for THIS coach. Secondly, calling CD out on those claims just had to be done. Finally, Sultan is right....does the end justify the means? Cura Personalis
What Vander said was, when asked if Maymon transferring was going to alter his view on having signed with Marquette - he answered "No." To not think that Vander's best friend from High School and teammate at Madison Memorial didn't try to influence Vander to come to Marquette..is not only naive, it is also misinformed. J-May said as much in his time at MU that he wanted Vander to team up with him at MU..
Regarding the flier comment for THIS coach..I think Buzz gets a pass that Crean didn't because he has assembled a roster, that top to bottom, is VERY talented..you could call DJO and Jimmy Butler fliers too..unfortunately for Crean..his flyers were on kids like Niv Berkowitz..coupled with the fact that he pretty much was only able to recruit well once every 3 years..leaving lots of marginal players on the roster at slots 7-13.
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Didn't Buzz say at a Circle event that Roseboro's dad was ill and that was one of the reasons he transferred?
We probably don't know half of what happened with the Roseboro and Newbill situations, so to automatically condemn Buzz is wrong. It is also wrong to completely absolve him of it as well since we don't know what happened. Basically it is pointless to keep bringing them up and argue because some will absolve Buzz and the others will crucify him and no ones viewpoint is really going to change.
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List a page back was not accurate. While Buzz is involved with all recruits, here is how that list should look....
Layer
Bowen
Buzz
Otule
E Williams
Fulce
Scott Monarch
Butler
Crowder
McMorrow
Newbill
Tony Benford
Blue
Buycks
Cadougan
Mbao
Smith
Wilson
Anderson
Maymon
Aki Collins
Gardner
Roseboro
D Wilson
Jamail Jones
DJO
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Didn't Buzz say at a Circle event that Roseboro's dad was ill and that was one of the reasons he transferred?
We probably don't know half of what happened with the Roseboro and Newbill situations, so to automatically condemn Buzz is wrong. It is also wrong to completely absolve him of it as well since we don't know what happened. Basically it is pointless to keep bringing them up and argue because some will absolve Buzz and the others will crucify him and no ones viewpoint is really going to change.
Absolutely right.
Thing is no one (that I know of) "completely absolves" Buzz. However, some do "condemn" him. Surprisingly, the one's calling for a "crucifixtion" have as their most vocal and persistant leader someone who claims to deal only in facts and who lectures on the importance of moving on and letting go. Go figure.
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What Vander said was, when asked if Maymon transferring was going to alter his view on having signed with Marquette - he answered "No." To not think that Vander's best friend from High School and teammate at Madison Memorial didn't try to influence Vander to come to Marquette..is not only naive, it is also misinformed. J-May said as much in his time at MU that he wanted Vander to team up with him at MU..
Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision. Let's give the young man some credit for making his own decision on choice of schools. You are putting WAY too much into that being a major role for Vander going to MU.
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Did Blue ever say Maymon was his "best friend" or is that just being inferred, possible incorrectly?
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Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision. Let's give the young man some credit for making his own decision on choice of schools. You are putting WAY too much into that being a major role for Vander going to MU.
I think Vander was influenced by Wes and Jerone to look at Marquette.
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Bilsu
I have no doubt. Of course any top player in the state would be a fool not to look at the top two programs in the state, regardless of who their friends are.
But Ners is saying something quite different that simply doesn't square with logic.
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Vander and Jerrone grew up together. They were best friends. When Maymon would head to Milwaukee for pickup games, Vander would tag along from time to time. When Maymon landed at MU, Vander would go and visit him. After a few times, he realized he felt more comfortable, felt like he fit in better that he did at UW. There were other factors, but that is what started it.
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Vander and Jerrone grew up together. They were best friends. When Maymon would head to Milwaukee for pickup games, Vander would tag along from time to time. When Maymon landed at MU, Vander would go and visit him. After a few times, he realized he felt more comfortable, felt like he fit in better that he did at UW. There were other factors, but that is what started it.
But that's contrary to what Chicos says! How can that be?! ;)
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Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision.
Absurdly false.
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Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision. Let's give the young man some credit for making his own decision on choice of schools. You are putting WAY too much into that being a major role for Vander going to MU.
If anything, Vander was discouraged from coming to MU because he knew Jeronne Tim Maymon would be hogging quality PT at PG/SG.
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Vander and Jerrone grew up together. They were best friends. When Maymon would head to Milwaukee for pickup games, Vander would tag along from time to time. When Maymon landed at MU, Vander would go and visit him. After a few times, he realized he felt more comfortable, felt like he fit in better that he did at UW. There were other factors, but that is what started it.
Thanks IWB for putting this "debate" to rest about the role Maymon played in Vander choosing MU. Chicos..of course Vander ultimately made the decision to attend MU and clearly didn't back out of it when Maymon's Dad pretty much got Maymon kicked off the team...but...given the above facts do you still stand by your statement that Maymon NEVER should have been recruited? If so, why not?? Consider it a flyer recruit..on a talented kid..who had an overbearing Dad...but for Buzz's first year in Wisconsin..why not take a flyer on the Wisconsin state player of the year who is a Top 75 player nationally? I'm sure Buzz felt he could manage the relationship with Tim Maymon as needed..as Buzz is pretty effective at managing relationships..unforutantely..Tim Maymon turned out to be a little too overbearing and they had to part ways..so..at what cost?? Vander Blue and Jae Crowder?? I'll take that trade. Thanks.
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Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision. Let's give the young man some credit for making his own decision on choice of schools. You are putting WAY too much into that being a major role for Vander going to MU.
You really don't know that. Even these young guys are taught how to talk to the media. We will never know for sure. Take Bogut's fall for example. Publicly, he says he doesn't blame anyone for his fall and that Amare did nothing wrong. In reality, it is easy to see the bad blood on the court and I have friends who talked to Bogut off-the-record and he still thinks Amare had a dirty push.
We really will never know. Vander could be upset privately since those 2 spent a lot of time together at MU events when he was recruited. Or he knew how distracting Maymon's situation was to the team and wasn't too upset he transferred. We just don't know.
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I think Vander was influenced by Wes and Jerone to look at Marquette.
And Trevon Hughes
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Vander and Jerrone grew up together. They were best friends. When Maymon would head to Milwaukee for pickup games, Vander would tag along from time to time. When Maymon landed at MU, Vander would go and visit him. After a few times, he realized he felt more comfortable, felt like he fit in better that he did at UW. There were other factors, but that is what started it.
Again, no doubt it has a small influence, but it is not why he chose MU.
Let's look at the logic here.
Some people would like to make it out that Maymon was so influential as to lead Vander to MU. Well if that's true, when Vander originally selected UW-madison, he did so without Maymon as Maymon was NEVER going to UW-madison since they were smart enough to know that he had no business going there, his dad was a complete ass, etc. Why didn't he wait to commit to UW-madison and see where his buddy was going?
So that's logic break #1.
Logic break #2 comes into play when Maymon left MU and Vander was still committed to MU. If his friend was so instrumental in him attending MU, then why did he stay at MU with his departure?
I have no doubts, as you state and others have, that they were friends, etc, etc. I'm sure they talked about playing together, etc. I'm sure Wes had influence as a Memorial alum as well. At the end of the day, however, players are usually (not always), but usually choosing to play at a school for many reasons well above where a buddy is going. That may be one reason, but it's way down the list.
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Again, no doubt it has a small influence, but it is not why he chose MU.
Let's look at the logic here.
Some people would like to make it out that Maymon was so influential as to lead Vander to MU. Well if that's true, when Vander originally selected UW-madison, he did so without Maymon as Maymon was NEVER going to UW-madison since they were smart enough to know that he had no business going there, his dad was a complete ass, etc. Why didn't he wait to commit to UW-madison and see where his buddy was going?
So that's logic break #1.
Logic break #2 comes into play when Maymon left MU and Vander was still committed to MU. If his friend was so instrumental in him attending MU, then why did he stay at MU with his departure?
I have no doubts, as you state and others have, that they were friends, etc, etc. I'm sure they talked about playing together, etc. I'm sure Wes had influence as a Memorial alum as well. At the end of the day, however, players are usually (not always), but usually choosing to play at a school for many reasons well above where a buddy is going. That may be one reason, but it's way down the list.
Did you not just yesterday post that you will admit when you are wrong..and were giving Canadian Dimes hell for never doing the same?? And now you submit this. Give it up..it is posts like these that make you lose credibility with 80% of the board. You start by making a blanket statement that JMay had nothing to do with Vander coming to MU..then..when you GET OWNED by the most knowledgable source/insider wehave for MU basketball - IWB - you still try to make yourself come off as "right." Priceless.
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Again, no doubt it has a small influence, but it is not why he chose MU.
Let's look at the logic here.
Some people would like to make it out that Maymon was so influential as to lead Vander to MU. Well if that's true, when Vander originally selected UW-madison, he did so without Maymon as Maymon was NEVER going to UW-madison since they were smart enough to know that he had no business going there, his dad was a complete ass, etc. Why didn't he wait to commit to UW-madison and see where his buddy was going?
So that's logic break #1.
Logic break #2 comes into play when Maymon left MU and Vander was still committed to MU. If his friend was so instrumental in him attending MU, then why did he stay at MU with his departure?
I have no doubts, as you state and others have, that they were friends, etc, etc. I'm sure they talked about playing together, etc. I'm sure Wes had influence as a Memorial alum as well. At the end of the day, however, players are usually (not always), but usually choosing to play at a school for many reasons well above where a buddy is going. That may be one reason, but it's way down the list.
Do you actually read and comprehended IWB's post? He never says that Maymon is the reason Vander chose MU. He said that spending time at MU with Maymon and the other players is where he felt comfortable and that is what piqued his interest in MU. No logic was broken. VB committed to Madison because that's where he thought he wanted to play. As he began to spend time on MU's campus and with MU's players, he realized that he felt more comfortable with them and in that location (if I'm interpreting IWB's post correctly. If not, please correct me, IWB). So-called "logic break #2" is also illogical because, as I just stated, it wasn't just playing with Maymon that made VB want to go to MU. He felt comfortable on campus and felt comfortable around the group of guys.
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Chicos' silence on this thread is deafening.
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Welcome to the MU family Derrick.
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Chicos' silence on this thread is deafening.
“A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday.”
Jonathan Swift
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Chicos' silence on this thread is deafening.
I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before we have another ridiculous rebuttal. I'd be shocked if Chicos chose to acknowledge he was wrong, but certainly would respect him more for doing so.
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Chicos' silence on this thread is deafening.
If only every thread were like this. What a wonderful place this would be. :D
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If only every thread were like this. What a wonderful place this would be. :D
+ infinity
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Chicos' silence on this thread is deafening.
I noticed your post on the other thread asking Chicos why he hasn't responded here and claiming that IWP "pantsed" him here. You seem a little obsessed by this topic, and it seems that your issues with Chicos may be coloring your view of things. I don't think IWB "pantsed" Chicos. In fact, I'm not sure that what they are saying is all that different. Chicos said that he thinks Blue made his own decision and it was based on a lot of factors -- that Maymon was not a huge influence on Vander's decision. IWB said that because of his friendship with Maymon, Vander spent a lot of time around Marquette and became very comfortable with the program. IWB even specifically says that there were other factors, but that the access he got by being friends with Maymon is what "started it."
Not only did IWB not "pants" Chicos, I'm not really even sure that their positions are inconsistent.
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I noticed your post on the other thread asking Chicos why he hasn't responded here and claiming that IWP "pantsed" him here. You seem a little obsessed by this topic, and it seems that your issues with Chicos may be coloring your view of things. I don't think IWB "pantsed" Chicos. In fact, I'm not sure that what they are saying is all that different. Chicos said that he thinks Blue made his own decision and it was based on a lot of factors -- that Maymon was not a huge influence on Vander's decision. IWB said that because of his friendship with Maymon, Vander spent a lot of time around Marquette and became very comfortable with the program. IWB even specifically says that there were other factors, but that the access he got by being friends with Maymon is what "started it."
Not only did IWB not "pants" Chicos, I'm not really even sure that their positions are inconsistent.
Chicos responded to IWB directly and attempted to show just how illogical his description of the events were...and his rebuttal was blatantly wrong. I'd say that their positions on the topic differ.
As for my so-called obsession, I enjoy it when someone harps on admitting your mistakes and owning up to being wrong, yet runs and hides once he's been proven wrong. I guess you could say I enjoy a good trainwreck.
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Chicos responded to IWB directly and attempted to show just how illogical his description of the events were...and his rebuttal was blatantly wrong. I'd say that their positions on the topic differ.
As for my so-called obsession, I enjoy it when someone harps on admitting your mistakes and owning up to being wrong, yet runs and hides once he's been proven wrong. I guess you could say I enjoy a good trainwreck.
I guess if you're focusing solely on how the posts were formatted (i.e.Chicos' post quoted IWB's post), then sure, I guess you could argue that their positions differ. But if you actually look at what they're saying, they really don't seem to differ much. I think a pretty quick reading of the posts shows that Chico is taking issue with the statement that Vander came to Marquette because of his friendship with Maymon. He doesn't deny that they were friends and seems to admit that the friendship played a role, but that Vander is a big boy and probably made a decision based on factors other than just following his friend. IWB said nothing that contradicts that and actually lends support to that theory. Chicos points about logic failing were premised upon the allegation that Vander is just following his buddy Maymon -- Chicos is arguing that that obviously is not the case -- and he's right.
Let me ask you this: what mistake has Chicos made in this thread?
If you think that Chicos was "proven wrong" by IWB, we apparently are reading things very differently. I think that your opinion of Chicos is coloring your interpretation.
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I guess if you're focusing solely on how the posts were formatted (i.e.Chicos' post quoted IWB's post), then sure, I guess you could argue that their positions differ. But if you actually look at what they're saying, they really don't seem to differ much. I think a pretty quick reading of the posts shows that Chico is taking issue with the statement that Vander came to Marquette because of his friendship with Maymon. He doesn't deny that they were friends and seems to admit that the friendship played a role, but that Vander is a big boy and probably made a decision based on factors other than just following his friend. IWB said nothing that contradicts that and actually lends support to that theory. Chicos points about logic failing were premised upon the allegation that Vander is just following his buddy Maymon -- Chicos is arguing that that obviously is not the case -- and he's right.
Let me ask you this: what mistake has Chicos made in this thread?
If you think that Chicos was "proven wrong" by IWB, we apparently are reading things very differently. I think that your opinion of Chicos is coloring your interpretation.
Chicos actually has no idea what happened (as is the case in most topics here), but claims to. It's been a common occurrence lately. Chico's proclaims something, then gets called out when someone who has actual knowledge sets the story straight.
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Chicos actually has no idea what happened (as is the case in most topics here), but claims to. It's been a common occurrence lately. Chico's proclaims something, then gets called out when someone who has actual knowledge sets the story straight.
Focusing on this thread (which MerrittsMustache has been -- even going into other threads and brining it up there), I don't see where his problem with Chicos is or why he is running around claiming IWP "pantsed" Chicos. Chicos position in this thread seems to be: like most players, Vander considered a lot of things in choosing a school and wasn't just following Maymon around, even though that was one consideration. The way I read it, nobody with any actual knowledge of the situation called Chicos out. IWB's post does not contradict Chicos. IWB said only that Vander's relationship with Maymon provided him access to the program, and once he spent some time around the program he got comfortable. That simply is not inconsistent with what Chicos said.
Edited to add: Your comment "as is the case in most topics here" and MerrittsMustache's comment that Chicos' "harps on admitting your mistakes and owning up to being wrong, yet runs and hides" suggests that I am correct in thinking that it is your feelings about Chicos -- and not what he actually said in this thread -- that is driving this issue.
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I noticed your post on the other thread asking Chicos why he hasn't responded here and claiming that IWP "pantsed" him here. You seem a little obsessed by this topic, and it seems that your issues with Chicos may be coloring your view of things. I don't think IWB "pantsed" Chicos. In fact, I'm not sure that what they are saying is all that different. Chicos said that he thinks Blue made his own decision and it was based on a lot of factors -- that Maymon was not a huge influence on Vander's decision. IWB said that because of his friendship with Maymon, Vander spent a lot of time around Marquette and became very comfortable with the program. IWB even specifically says that there were other factors, but that the access he got by being friends with Maymon is what "started it."
Not only did IWB not "pants" Chicos, I'm not really even sure that their positions are inconsistent.
Lame defense. Chicos flat out questioned my comment that stated: Recruiting Maymon very well helped our chances in landing Vander.....with a snide reply of:
And you know this about Vander and Maymon how, exactly? Especially when he said it had no impact on his decision to go to MU.
Chicos got owned by IWB and tried to back talk his way out of his initial position on the matter. Lastly..I think..though I'm not sure..but..think Chicos is MAN enough himself to defend himself..or at least try..but really..if he were a man..he'd just admit he was wrong. Plain and simple..end of dicsussion..everyone moves on. But, nive of yo uto come to his rescue..
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Focusing on this thread (which MerrittsMustache has been -- even going into other threads and brining it up there), I don't see where his problem with Chicos is or why he is running around claiming IWP "pantsed" Chicos. Chicos position in this thread seems to be: like most players, Vander considered a lot of things in choosing a school and wasn't just following Maymon around, even though that was one consideration. The way I read it, nobody with any actual knowledge of the situation called Chicos out. IWB's post does not contradict Chicos. IWB said only that Vander's relationship with Maymon provided him access to the program, and once he spent some time around the program he got comfortable. That simply is not inconsistent with what Chicos said.
Edited to add: Your comment "as is the case in most topics here" and MerrittsMustache's comment that Chicos' "harps on admitting your mistakes and owning up to being wrong, yet runs and hides" suggests that I am correct in thinking that it is your feelings about Chicos -- and not what he actually said in this thread -- that is driving this issue.
We must be reading different threads or you simply have a different interpretation of what you read than many of the other posters who have responded.
In reference to the bolded part above: Chicos brought up this topic on another thread. I simply responded to that.
Yes, I'm harping on this topic because Chicos always wants posters to come clean when they're proven wrong, yet he won't do it himself.
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Lame defense. Chicos flat out questioned my comment that stated: Recruiting Maymon very well helped our chances in landing Vander.....with a snide reply of:
And you know this about Vander and Maymon how, exactly? Especially when he said it had no impact on his decision to go to MU.
Chicos got owned by IWB and tried to back talk his way out of his initial position on the matter. Lastly..I think..though I'm not sure..but..think Chicos is MAN enough himself to defend himself..or at least try..but really..if he were a man..he'd just admit he was wrong. Plain and simple..end of dicsussion..everyone moves on. But, nive of yo uto come to his rescue..
It's not so much that I'm defending Chicos, but addressing people who are so obsessed with Chicos that they feel a need to chase him into other threads and drag more of this crap up there. Especially when they're wrong. Believe it or not, some of us on this board would love a thread that didn't devolve into a pissing match between Chicos on one hand and the half dozen or so of you who constantly feel the need to "call him out" all the time. Every now and then, I get so sick of it that I can't help commenting.
Say what you want, I don't think IWB's position is really different from Chicos'. In fact, I interpreted IWB's post as a response to KC2016's question of whether Maymon and Vander were friends, not as a response to Chicos. Only he can answer that one.
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Yes, I'm harping on this topic because Chicos always wants posters to come clean when they're proven wrong, yet he won't do it himself.
At least now you're admitting that this has more to do with Chicos in general than what he said in this thread. Baby steps...
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It's not so much that I'm defending Chicos, but addressing people who are so obsessed with Chicos that they feel a need to chase him into other threads and drag more of this crap up there. Especially when they're wrong. Believe it or not, some of us on this board would love a thread that didn't devolve into a pissing match between Chicos on one hand and the half dozen or so of you who constantly feel the need to "call him out" all the time. Every now and then, I get so sick of it that I can't help commenting.
Say what you want, I don't think IWB's position is really different from Chicos'. In fact, I interpreted IWB's post as a response to KC2016's question of whether Maymon and Vander were friends, not as a response to Chicos. Only he can answer that one.
If you don't like it..then why participate? And why is Chicos at the center of so many dramas here? He doesn't bring any of that upon himself, does he?? Of course not. Let him be his own man..and you can be yours..so..your point that you didn't interpret this thread and Chicos initial statement to mean that JMay had nothing to do with Vander signing at MU..is fine..that said..how you come to that conclusion upon reading the evidence is confusing..if you are looking at it objectively.
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For comparisons sake...do you think he will be a better college player than say a Malik boothe?
I think they could be similar which isn't a good thing ;D
Malik Boothe is a fair comparison but another Big East guy who comes to mind is Tory Jackson. He's kind of a hybrid between the 2. They're solid which Wilson will be.
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If you don't like it..then why participate? And why is Chicos at the center of so many dramas here? He doesn't bring any of that upon himself, does he?? Of course not. Let him be his own man..and you can be yours...
I do like it. Sometimes it annoys me.
Absolutely Chicos brings it on himself sometimes. He bugs the crap out of me sometimes and I often think he's wrong, backtracking, etc. But other times, in my opinion, some of you are simply looking for a reason to pick a fight with him. You also are at the center of many of these dramas here. Doesn't that suggest that, like Chicos, you're also part of the issue? I'm not stopping Chicos from being his own man; he'll comment here if he wants. Lord knows he typically does.
so..your point that you didn't interpret this thread and Chicos initial statement to mean that JMay had nothing to do with Vander signing at MU..is fine..that said..how you come to that conclusion upon reading the evidence is confusing..if you are looking at it objectively.
Chicos has admitted in this thread that Vander's relationship with JMay was one factor that helped bring him to MU. I agree with him. IWB agrees with him. You agree with him. Apparently, we all agree with him. If that's the case, I don't understand why MM feels the need to run around talking about how IWB pantsed Chicos on this thread.
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I do like it. Sometimes it annoys me.
Absolutely Chicos brings it on himself sometimes. He bugs the crap out of me sometimes and I often think he's wrong, backtracking, etc. But other times, in my opinion, some of you are simply looking for a reason to pick a fight with him. You also are at the center of many of these dramas here. Doesn't that suggest that, like Chicos, you're also part of the issue? I'm not stopping Chicos from being his own man; he'll comment here if he wants. Lord knows he typically does.
Chicos has admitted in this thread that Vander's relationship with JMay was one factor that helped bring him to MU. I agree with him. IWB agrees with him. You agree with him. Apparently, we all agree with him. If that's the case, I don't understand why MM feels the need to run around talking about how IWB pantsed Chicos on this thread.
I'm at the center of a lot of drama here because I will square off with Chicos and 84 who have their agendas. Chicos ADMITS ONLY AFTER IWB POSTS that: sure..JMay probably had something to do with Vander coming here..but initially..he called me out for saying recruiting JMay helped us land Vander buy saying: You konw this how? VHe tried to twist Vanders' comment when asked AFTER Maymon transferred..if that was going to change his commitment to MU..to which Vander said NO! He twisted from there that because Vander saidno at that time after he'd signed his letter of intent..that since he wasn't backing out of his MU commitment..then clearly JMay meant nothing in the recruitment of Vander. Two totally seperate issues.
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I'm at the center of a lot of drama here because I will square off with Chicos and 84 who have their agendas.
Whatever would we do without you? Just as you mentioned that Chicos is man enough to speak up for himself, I suspect the rest of us here are man (and woman) enough to protect ourselves against Chicos, 84 and others with agendas. But thanks for coming to our rescue again, and again, and again...
Chicos ADMITS ONLY AFTER IWB POSTS that: sure..JMay probably had something to do with Vander coming here..
Actually, it looks to me like he admitted it BEFORE IWB posted. But don't let that fact get in your way of your need to "square off" with Chicos and his agenda.
Don't get me wrong, I know that Chicos is doing it too. He took your initial post and distorted it and suggested that you were saying JMay was solely responsible for Vander being at MU. Then you took his posts and are claiming that he's saying that JMay had nothing whatsoever to do with it (granted, his misleading use of the post-transfer quote in his first post on the issue certainly supports your point, but subsequent posts - even before IWB chimed in - show that he admits that the relationship was a factor). But at the end of the day, we're all agreeing: the relationship between JMay and Vander had some influence on his decision to come to Marquette.
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Whatever would we do without you? Just as you mentioned that Chicos is man enough to speak up for himself, I suspect the rest of us here are man (and woman) enough to protect ourselves against Chicos, 84 and others with agendas. But thanks for coming to our rescue again, and again, and again...
Actually, it looks to me like he admitted it BEFORE IWB posted. But don't let that fact get in your way of your need to "square off" with Chicos and his agenda.
Don't get me wrong, I know that Chicos is doing it too. He took your initial post and distorted it and suggested that you were saying JMay was solely responsible for Vander being at MU. Then you took his posts and are claiming that he's saying that JMay had nothing whatsoever to do with it (granted, his misleading use of the post-transfer quote in his first post on the issue certainly supports your point, but subsequent posts - even before IWB chimed in - show that he admits that the relationship was a factor). But at the end of the day, we're all agreeing: the relationship between JMay and Vander had some influence on his decision to come to Marquette.
Thank you for summarizing this issue for all of us..though you are in the minority of 2, you are entitled to see it as you want. Thank you for coming to Chicos defense...it is a humanitarian act, and for that, as an MU alum, you are to be commended. Cura Personalis.
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Chicos actually has no idea what happened (as is the case in most topics here), but claims to. It's been a common occurrence lately. Chico's proclaims something, then gets called out when someone who has actual knowledge sets the story straight.
Excuse me? I clearly said that of course there is some influence but it's WAY WAY down the list. How exactly was that statement of mine wrong? Vander Blue DID NOT GO TO MARQUETTE because of Maymon, and that's what the original post was implying. That is simply wrong on all levels. I never said they weren't friends, they were. I never said it didn't have an influence, it most certainly had a small influence. I said, CLEARLY, that it was not THE REASON and if it was any reason at all, was way way way way down the list.
Please tell me where anything above is incorrect and how that had to be "set straight"? Thanks
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Chicos responded to IWB directly and attempted to show just how illogical his description of the events were...and his rebuttal was blatantly wrong. I'd say that their positions on the topic differ.
As for my so-called obsession, I enjoy it when someone harps on admitting your mistakes and owning up to being wrong, yet runs and hides once he's been proven wrong. I guess you could say I enjoy a good trainwreck.
I responded directly to show it wasn't a MAJOR REASON or even a TOP REASON that he chose MU. If it was, the logic blows up in the face immediately with Maymon leaving and doesn't jive with him verballing to Wisconsin in the first place because Maymon was never going there (grades, jagoff dad, etc).
You are the one that has the reading comprehension problem Stache.
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I'm at the center of a lot of drama here because I will square off with Chicos and 84 who have their agendas. Chicos ADMITS ONLY AFTER IWB POSTS that: sure..JMay probably had something to do with Vander coming here..but initially..he called me out for saying recruiting JMay helped us land Vander buy saying: You konw this how? VHe tried to twist Vanders' comment when asked AFTER Maymon transferred..if that was going to change his commitment to MU..to which Vander said NO! He twisted from there that because Vander saidno at that time after he'd signed his letter of intent..that since he wasn't backing out of his MU commitment..then clearly JMay meant nothing in the recruitment of Vander. Two totally seperate issues.
Wrong, I said it BEFORE IWB's response, but never let those facts get in the way Ners. I NEVER denied they were friends or had an influence, my point was that the influence was nothing you make it out to be.
The original part of this thread had to do with why on earth MU went after Maymon to begin with. Your response was that it helped us to get Vander. Do you honestly think that we would not have had a chance to get Vander Blue without stepping on our diks with the Maymon fiasco? I interpreted your post to suggest that there was some grand strategy that only the great Buzz could pull off and that we went after Maymon to get Vander.
Sorry, Ners, but I give Buzz and his staff a little more credit and think the would have secured Vander without Maymon ever setting foot as a "student" athlete at MU.
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Wrong, I said it BEFORE IWB's response, but never let those facts get in the way Ners. I NEVER denied they were friends or had an influence, my point was that the influence was nothing you make it out to be.
The original part of this thread had to do with why on earth MU went after Maymon to begin with. Your response was that it helped us to get Vander. Do you honestly think that we would not have had a chance to get Vander Blue without stepping on our diks with the Maymon fiasco? I interpreted your post to suggest that there was some grand strategy that only the great Buzz could pull off and that we went after Maymon to get Vander.
Sorry, Ners, but I give Buzz and his staff a little more credit and think the would have secured Vander without Maymon ever setting foot as a "student" athlete at MU.
Chicos - Are you by chance short?
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Yes, I'm short...5'7". That's what God gave me (well, actually genetics...my mom was 4'11" and growing up 4 of my first 5 years in Central and South America didn't help). Any other questions?
Ners, you obviously didn't like being called out for all your errors apparently. I expect Stache to come out any second to claim you're attacking someone's manhood....or maybe he only holds that outrage for certain posters.
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Vander did not choose MU or was influenced to any high degree by Maymon's decision. Let's give the young man some credit for making his own decision on choice of schools. You are putting WAY too much into that being a major role for Vander going to MU.
Okay - Not surprised to hear you are short...but I first say "recruiting Maymon very well helped our chances in getting Vander."
You reply - And you know this about Vander and Maymon how exactly?
I gave you my explanation...and you replied with the above. About 3 posts later IWB flat out stated how Maymon taking Vander to MU open gyms really opened Vander's eyes to MU and felt a comfort level..and it evolved from there. Only after IWB posted did you retract..yet still can't admit the error of your above post and attitude on the issue. Classic, sterotypical, short man complex..the sad thing is most short people don't have it..but you are a poster boy for perpetuating the sterotype.
To top it off..you criticize Canadian Dimes for not admitting when he's wrong...Ironic. Just man up..and say you were wrong. End of issue.
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From how it seems, my guess is Vander never would have backed out of the Madison commitment without Maymon. Maybe the dodginess about how UW handled releasing his grades would have pushed him out anyway, but it seems that without Maymon, Blue would have had no reason to visit Marquette's campus on a regular basis, which likely opened the door for Buzz and company to make their push.
Maybe Blue leaves UW anyway. Maybe he still picks Marquette to stay close to home. Maybe he passes on the offers from Arizona, UCLA, Florida, and Tennessee. Maybe maybe maybe...but I haven't seen anything in the past from IWB to indicate he doesn't have a firm grasp of how things went down. Bottom line is that we know Maymon brought Blue to Marquette, Buzz followed up with recruiting him and getting his name on the dotted line, and Blue clearly felt comfortable enough with Marquette as a whole to stay despite Maymon's transfer. I'm sure that Vander made the right choice, and one he is comfortable with, but there's no way for us to know if he even gets that far without Maymon.
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Yes, I'm short...5'7". That's what God gave me (well, actually genetics...my mom was 4'11" and growing up 4 of my first 5 years in Central and South America didn't help). Any other questions?
Ners, you obviously didn't like being called out for all your errors apparently. I expect Stache to come out any second to claim you're attacking someone's manhood....or maybe he only holds that outrage for certain posters.
I'm not sure what the comment about me has to do with anything, but the fact that you're short really helps to explain a lot of your actions.
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I'm not sure what the comment about me has to do with anything, but the fact that you're short really helps to explain a lot of your actions.
I believe PC applies to trash talk about short people also, because it applies to all other minorities.
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Der-Rick
Wil-Son
Der- rick
Wil-Son
:)
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This crap has gotten ridiculous lately. No Chicos is wrong no Ners is wrong no _____ is wrong. Don't tell me to go read another thread because it is on almost every one. This thread was about Derrick Wilson and his name has been mentioned twice in the past 30 some posts. Even Dimes tried to make a post about the kids skillset and everyone just glossed over it in trying to prove who is right. Can you guys just keep it to PMs instead of turning everything thread into a stupid debate about sh*t that 99% of the board doesn't care about. Vander is at Marquette, fantastic. I don't care whether it was Jmay, buzz, or the allure of the PicknSave of national that brought him here. Sorry, but man these debates make it hard to read Scoop some days.
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This crap has gotten ridiculous lately. No Chicos is wrong no Ners is wrong no _____ is wrong. Don't tell me to go read another thread because it is on almost every one. This thread was about Derrick Wilson and his name has been mentioned twice in the past 30 some posts. Even Dimes tried to make a post about the kids skillset and everyone just glossed over it in trying to prove who is right. Can you guys just keep it to PMs instead of turning everything thread into a stupid debate about sh*t that 99% of the board doesn't care about. Vander is at Marquette, fantastic. I don't care whether it was Jmay, buzz, or the allure of the PicknSave of national that brought him here. Sorry, but man these debates make it hard to read Scoop some days.
Pick N Save on National always had like 5 frozen pizzas for 10 bucks...it was awesome.
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Pick N Save on National always had like 5 frozen pizzas for 10 bucks...it was awesome.
Sorry LLRj, but that post wasn't about Derrick Wilson. That's strike one. Two more and MU B2002 will e-yell at you.
Derrick Wilson will be a tremendous asset to MU. You can never have enough depth at PG.
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This crap has gotten ridiculous lately. No Chicos is wrong no Ners is wrong no _____ is wrong. Don't tell me to go read another thread because it is on almost every one. This thread was about Derrick Wilson and his name has been mentioned twice in the past 30 some posts. Even Dimes tried to make a post about the kids skillset and everyone just glossed over it in trying to prove who is right. Can you guys just keep it to PMs instead of turning everything thread into a stupid debate about sh*t that 99% of the board doesn't care about. Vander is at Marquette, fantastic. I don't care whether it was Jmay, buzz, or the allure of the PicknSave of national that brought him here. Sorry, but man these debates make it hard to read Scoop some days.
I care about this debate.
(http://thesimpsonsrocks.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hans_moleman.png)
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I am not trying to tell people what to post, but cmon you have to admit it gets a little out of hand. But it is an internet message board, so I guess it is par for the course. No more complaints from me.
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I am not trying to tell people what to post, but cmon you have to admit it gets a little out of hand. But it is an internet message board, so I guess it is par for the course. No more complaints from me.
I agree with your original post 100%. I just refrain from posting in these threads hoping they'll die on their now.
Instead the 4 or so people that are all equally jerk-faced continually follow each other around every thread spamming the board up.
I think MU_Hilltopper mentioned last year that he'd gladly ban any user for a fee (renewable on a monthly basis, of course). It might be worth setting up a fun if all of this childishness doesn't disappear now that it's basketball season.
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I decided to post just to keep this thread alive, but to make my post relevant, Derrick Wilson backwards is Kcirred Nosliw.
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This crap has gotten ridiculous lately. No Chicos is wrong no Ners is wrong no _____ is wrong. Don't tell me to go read another thread because it is on almost every one. This thread was about Derrick Wilson and his name has been mentioned twice in the past 30 some posts. Even Dimes tried to make a post about the kids skillset and everyone just glossed over it in trying to prove who is right. Can you guys just keep it to PMs instead of turning everything thread into a stupid debate about sh*t that 99% of the board doesn't care about. Vander is at Marquette, fantastic. I don't care whether it was Jmay, buzz, or the allure of the PicknSave of national that brought him here. Sorry, but man these debates make it hard to read Scoop some days.
You got that right, bro. Who needs these drama queens, anyway. I'm ready to put Ners on "Ignore" next. If that doesn't work, I'll probably put MUScoop on "Ignore" and start hanging out at Dodds' place.
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You got that right, bro. Who needs these drama queens, anyway. I'm ready to put Ners on "Ignore" next. If that doesn't work, I'll probably put MUScoop on "Ignore" and start hanging out at Dodds' place.
You'll soon get banned over there like the rest of us.
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You got that right, bro. Who needs these drama queens, anyway. I'm ready to put Ners on "Ignore" next. If that doesn't work, I'll probably put MUScoop on "Ignore" and start hanging out at Dodds' place.
By all means, please do.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure a lot of posters wouldn't mind you taking your bitch-fights with Chicos (although I agree with you a lot of the time) elsewhere. No need to turn away a poster when you are one of the board's biggest problems.
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Okay - Not surprised to hear you are short...
There you go lying again Ners. You asked the same question over a year ago of me. We all know why you asked it (your whole Napoleon Complex crap you tried last year)....why can't you just tell the truth...man up and admit it?
What...cat got your tongue?
To top it off..you criticize Canadian Dimes for not admitting when he's wrong...Ironic. Just man up..and say you were wrong. End of issue.
I admit I'm wrong all the time on this board...did so twice yesterday....the Oregon basketball court as an example. When I'm wrong, I'll admit it. When I'm not wrong, I won't.
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I'm surprised to see Derrick Wilson land in the Big East. He was highly touted as a Frosh/Soph then he dipped off the radar. I've seen him play in person as a junior and I was unimpressed. His Hotchkiss team is terrible and I do think that hurt him a bit but I didn't walk away impressed with him either.
The things he'll offer is tough defense, he's seriously a wrecking ball, and he's a solid floor general. I think he would have made a much better defensive back or safety but thats just me.
Wilson was definitely a case of maturing faster the dominating early in his career. The rest of the world caught up to him and he's not so spectacular anymore. I was hoping Marquette would have landed someone better as I thought Wilson was more of a A-10 type player. Regardless they landed a nice kid and a good competitor so I do wish him the best of luck at Marquette (except when playing St. John's)
Was surfing through MUScoop for the annual matchup of MU vs St. John's. Checked out some of my old posts. I initially caught some slack on this evaluation. Was curious what were some opinions of Wilson 2 years later?
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Was surfing through MUScoop for the annual matchup of MU vs St. John's. Checked out some of my old posts. I initially caught some slack on this evaluation. Was curious what were some opinions of Wilson 2 years later?
Jesus H Tap Dancing Chris, we are officially the most spoiled fanbase if we can dig up a 3 year thread to thump our chest about a yet to be proven true statement about our back-up point guard on a conference championship winning team?
Should we go back and discuss the less than ideal performance of one of the under secretaries of transportation appointed by FDR in 1942?
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Jesus H Tap Dancing Chris, we are officially the most spoiled fanbase if we can dig up a 3 year thread to thump our chest about a yet to be proven true statement about our back-up point guard on a conference championship winning team?
Should we go back and discuss the less than ideal performance of one of the under secretaries of transportation appointed by FDR in 1942?
Well, what's the Big (New) Deal with this?
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He's a SJU fan who rarely visits. Cut him some slack.
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Was surfing through MUScoop for the annual matchup of MU vs St. John's. Checked out some of my old posts. I initially caught some slack on this evaluation. Was curious what were some opinions of Wilson 2 years later?
Well, in response to the A10 comment, I'd point out that when Marquette signed him, Derrick also had a schollie offer from Notre Dame, so Brey thought he was a Big East type of player, as well. At one point this year, Buzz said that Derrick had outplayed Junior in practice to the point where Derrick should have been starting ahead of Junior, but Buzz just couldn't get himself to do it. This very well could have been a motivational tactic by Buzz, but at the very least, Derrick must have been showing enough in practice to make the statement credible, or Buzz wouldn't have said it.
Last year we had a big road win at Wisconsin who at the time had a highly touted guy, Taylor at point guard. Junior was suspended, so MU went most of the game with Derrick at PG, and I recall that he gave Taylor fits on defense. There is no way that MU would have won that game without Derrick with Junior suspended. so, for that reason alone, I'm glad that Buzz got him. Getting him also allowed junior to have some decent competition in practice, and contributed to junior being a better player.
Derrick is probably as good of an example as one can get of a "Buzz type" player, three star talent with a five star mental makeup.
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With that said, I hope that Duane is the starting Wilson next season.
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Derrick might get the 3 minute start, get 3 more in the first half and maybe 3 more in the second, but if he plays more than that I would be pleasantly surprised by that and then disappointed with John Dawson and Duane Wilson. Duane looks like the real deal, really a scorer with a scoring mentality and in college that is what you need.
Duane
Blue
Wilson
Taylor
Otule (if not back, Gardner)
Johnson
Anderson
Derrick
McKay
Mayo
Burton
Dawson
Ferguson
Thomas
A lot of competition!
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Duane does look good - but to be a starting PG in Div 1 from day one is a miniscule proposition, especially with a returning PG with a good amount of experience. Duane has been doing it against low division Wisconsin high schoolers...while we do break either him OR dawson at PG - I wouldn't expect much more than about 15 minutes combined out of those two (AT THE POINT, anyway)
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Duane does look good - but to be a starting PG in Div 1 from day one is a miniscule proposition, especially with a returning PG with a good amount of experience.
It happens all the time. And, its not just one and done types either, two current Big East pgs that started from day one are Eric Atkins and Ryan Arcidiacono.
Yes, experience counts, but talent is talent. If Duane can hang on the defensive end, he'll start.
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Like I said Derrick will play some due to his experience, plays decent D, but it is like playing 4 on 5 on the offensive side. Taylor only plays so much as he does not know how to play
D either. If they pick up the system quick enough then the 2 frosh will get most of the time.
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He's a SJU fan who rarely visits. Cut him some slack.
You beat me to the punch. There are some guys on this board that come across as know it all dbags.
Some take offense to digging up an old thread. What's wrong with visiting our thoughts and opinions in the past? Before I post on a subject, I use the search bar to see if its a subject that has been covered before.
I'd like to see more offensive ability from Derrick but to his credit, there is little drop off from MUs performance when he's on the court. A serviceable backup pg is something we could have used in many recent years. He'll continue to grow as a player and we're very lucky to have him.
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What's wrong with visiting our thoughts and opinions in the past?
Because it's a little embarrassing that I said this: "I think the Sherron Collins comparison is a good one"