MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Atlanta Warrior on August 25, 2010, 12:50:10 PM
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There are some people, on this board, who seemingly have a misison of finding anything remotely negative to dwell upon. The recent LaDaryl Billingsly thread being a perfect example. What is the point of bringing up an episode from approximately 13 years ago that had no positive impact on MU?
Even when some bring up former players (such as Terrell Schulndt) recently it's only to make some form of negative comment. This from people who couldn't carry Terrell Schulndt's jock strap on their best days.
Finally we had the Newbill debacle which went on for a ludicrous 14 pages with Chico's droning on, certain that if he only repated himself long enough or loudly enough others would see the wisdome of this self-appointed moral barometer of all things MU Hoops related.
Frankly, it's rather sad and pathetic. I am not saying posters need to be all rah rah all the time and there are certainly times where critical comments are warranted but when the majority of posters seem to be more critical it calls the alleged mission of the board (presumably to support MU Hoops) into question.
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Swiftly kicks the soap box from under Atlanta Warrior and leaves the room
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Damuts, I believe your statement is referred to as an ad hominem attack. I am seriously trying to understand the culture of this board. I realize it probably skews a little (maybe a lot) younger than me but I just don't get the level of negativity.
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Completely agree, Atlanta. However, the other board is like an English Gentlemen's club from the Victorian era during the summer. At least there is something going on here, even if it is a bunch of disfunctional whining.
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Atlanta Warrior starting a negative thread about excessive negativity. Metanegativity at its best.
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There are some people, on this board, who seemingly have a misison of finding anything remotely negative to dwell upon.
Thanks for the positive, uplifting post. We're all glad to see that you're not dwelling on the negative.
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There are some people, on this board, who seemingly have a misison of finding anything remotely negative to dwell upon.
Finally we had the Newbill debacle which went on for a ludicrous 14 pages with Chico's droning on, certain that if he only repated himself long enough or loudly enough others would see the wisdome of this self-appointed moral barometer of all things MU Hoops related.
I understand your point, and I've been called a "fanboy," by some on here. I'm still not quite sure what a fanboy is..or why someone who is very optimistic and not critical of the MU program makes one a Fanboy? I get the idea of "not drinking the kool aid," but the reality is that I'm not going to be overly critical or judgemental of the current regime - compared to past regimes. I'm a HUGE fan of Buzz..HUGE..and my enthusiasm gets criticized by some. Fact is..i just LOVE the direction the program is headed under Buzz and am thrilled about our prospects.
HAving said this..dissenting opinios are part of the fun of a message board, and so long as posters here are TURE fans, and are more level-headed/less enthisiastic/more critical of the program...than am i...they are still MU fans..and I don't mind their "reality checks," or criticisms. I will say that even our resident, self appointed, moral compass has his place and role here...as does Marquette 84 and his longstanding Crean-mance, and lengthy replies.
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... the alleged mission of the board (presumably to support MU Hoops) into question.
Not to comment on the remainder of your post .. but I don't think that's the "mission" (if there ever was one.) The mission would be to talk about MU Hoops, pro and con.
Not to be crass, but there is a board that skews much more heavily toward "support" of MU that has a stricter editorial policy.
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Atlanta Warrior starting a negative thread about excessive negativity. Metanegativity at its best.
Touche' :D
I guess I can see the certain irony to my initial posting but seriously, there seem to some on this board whose attitude towards MU can best be described as destructive. Almost to the point that you have to wonder if they are trolls with a very clear goal.
As for the Tom Crean thread (either pro or con) let it go already.
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Finally we had the Newbill debacle which went on for a ludicrous 14 pages with Chico's droning on, certain that if he only repated himself long enough or loudly enough others would see the wisdome of this self-appointed moral barometer of all things MU Hoops related.
...I believe your statement is referred to as an ad hominem attack...
good thing you are avoiding ad hominems too.
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I guess I can see the certain irony to my initial posting but seriously, there seem to some on this board whose attitude towards MU can best be described as destructive. Almost to the point that you have to wonder if they are trolls with a very clear goal.
Not to be contrarian, but "destructive" of what? As much time as I've spent on this board (far too much), I have a hard time seeing how any of us (those I agree with and those that I don't) has any effect whatsoever on Marquette basketball.
By the way, your last sentence sounds suspiciously like the whole "you're not a real fan" comments that really are "destructive" to attempted good-natured discussion and debate over a basketball program we all love.
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I am a young pup compared to some of the dinosaurs on this board and the retirement community on the Dodd's board. But I've been apart of the MU internet community since 2000.
MU Scoop is by far the best board for discussion on MU hoops. Sure it's not always a pep rally here but issues get discussed and you grow a thicker "internet skin". Plus you can always actually use your discretion and learn how to ignore people/threads/trolls if need be.
I guess this is as good a time as any to say thank you to MUScoop for existing and offering a non-country club/judge smails forum for marquette fans.
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What do you expect from people who have an abnormal obession with college basketball? They spend hours on this board and some of them even follow the players on twitter.
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BTW Atlanta...most of these kind of threads will cease within the next few weeks and recruiting ramps up and the players get back on campus.
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There are some people, on this board, who seemingly have a misison of finding anything remotely negative to dwell upon. The recent LaDaryl Billingsly thread being a perfect example. What is the point of bringing up an episode from approximately 13 years ago that had no positive impact on MU?
Even when some bring up former players (such as Terrell Schulndt) recently it's only to make some form of negative comment. This from people who couldn't carry Terrell Schulndt's jock strap on their best days.
Finally we had the Newbill debacle which went on for a ludicrous 14 pages with Chico's droning on, certain that if he only repated himself long enough or loudly enough others would see the wisdome of this self-appointed moral barometer of all things MU Hoops related.
Frankly, it's rather sad and pathetic. I am not saying posters need to be all rah rah all the time and there are certainly times where critical comments are warranted but when the majority of posters seem to be more critical it calls the alleged mission of the board (presumably to support MU Hoops) into question.
Atlanta (assuming you are the Atlanta Warrior from Dodds board)...I've always liked you, respect your opinions but I do find it funny that you call out the 14 pages and you helped to push it that far. Ultimately, who gives a crap if it's 14 pages or 2 pages? Seriously. If people don't want to read it, don't read it. If they want to contribute to it, then contribute to it. But you'll have to excuse me for chuckling about your above post that attempts to call someone out on their opinions on how to conduct themselves when you are doing the exact same thing with your post. Pot meet kettle.
I would say this board has a much healthier skepticism than other boards out there, and as such, the opinions are less group think and fit less into the molded parameters of allowed discussion set about on other boards.
As far as the tone, it's like the old argument...is he a realist or a pessimist. Well that all depends on where your POV is.
I don't think ANYONE here on this board wants MU to fail, the coach to fail, the players to fail. If they do, I'd be surprised. There are certainly posters on this board that have hated our coaches, our ADs, our university Presidients, that's just the way it goes. But everyone, in one shape or another, wants MU to succeed. I think where it gets convoluted is the path one takes to get there. Some of us are much more concerned about that path than others. And we express it. Others have a win at all costs mentality and don't give a crap about the path. Others are in the middle. It's a healthy discussion, but its obvious that you don't care for the dialogue here as expressed in most of your 30 posts.
So I have to ask, if this board is not for you and has a fairly established culture to it, why do you subject yourself to the pain it provides by reading it?
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good thing you are avoiding ad hominems too.
RBSC....damn, good to see you. Hope all is well!
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RBSC....damn, good to see you. Hope all is well!
all is well. with you too, i hope!
always lurking, occasionally posting. i just couldn't resist this one. :)
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Chico's I guess I would have to cop to being both Pot & Kettle in this case. I really was trying to get an idea as to what drives the culture on this board. I am not going to call anyone out but there are clearly some posters who have serious issues with the current leadership of Marquette's basketball and athletic programs. I am also a little surprised at the personal vitriol that takes place but that might just be a style issue. Sorry for "calling you out" Chicos but I found the Newbill thread (which you correctly point out I helped along with a couple of posts that simply asked the rhetorical equivalent of "our we there yet) the most vivid example of what I am talking about. It was pretty clear after a couple of pages and crystal clear after 8 or 9 who believed what. Everyone had staked their positions and articulated their arguments, but it just didn't stop. On and on it went for 14 pages. I am sorry, call me naive if you like, but I don't see what purpose it services. Recruits do read these boards and I do think some might be taken aback by some of the discourse they see. How would you like to be an 18 year old and have both your on and off the court life dissected.
Hey I am rambling a bit. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I come to the board, on occasions, to see a fresh take. Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised to find a great link or a great observation from a poster but, more often than not, I have to navigate through a lot of static to get there.
So thank you all of indulging me and responding to my initial post. I wish you all continued success with your board and, for all of our sakes, here's wishing we are on the verge of a successful and entertaining season.
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Can somebody explain to me what the problem was with the Billingsley thread? Seriously...I didn't see that as anything other than an old recruiting story.
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Can somebody explain to me what the problem was with the Billingsley thread? Seriously...I didn't see that as anything other than an old recruiting story.
Agreed. And, its August.
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I really was trying to get an idea as to what drives the culture on this board. I am not going to call anyone out but there are clearly some posters who have serious issues with the current leadership of Marquette's basketball and athletic programs.
It seems to me that when things change and policies change, people will ask questions if for no other reason to ask why the change. When we never used to continue recruiting kids that verballed to other programs but now do, people will ask why the change. Or the roster having more JUCO's as a percentage than ever before (doesn't make it wrong). Not honoring a NLI, Etc, etc. Just a few examples of many (there are others I prefer to keep off the public boards) where people are going to be interested.
MU hoops is all we have at MU...it's a school with only one high profile sport. People are heavily invested in MU hoops in terms of time, money, emotions, etc. And as such, they will ask questions of those leading the organization. I see this as a GOOD THING. It means people care. I would be worried if we just sat back all the time and said, don't worry...everything is fine. With time, people will be more and more comfortable but the reality is we have a young head coach (in terms of tenure), an AD who is still in the very early stages of his career, we belong to a league that everyone and their brother thinks will implode at some point (not if, but when), etc....there is reason for optimism but concern until folks prove themselves out over the long haul. If that means folks are questioning those running the jewel that is MU hoops, well I don't find that out of line at this point in the time line.
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Touche' :D
I guess I can see the certain irony to my initial posting but seriously, there seem to some on this board whose attitude towards MU can best be described as destructive. Almost to the point that you have to wonder if they are trolls with a very clear goal.
As for the Tom Crean thread (either pro or con) let it go already.
Oh, yeah, well MU dropped football my senior year. How do you think that makes me feel now? Not too good, mister, not too good.
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i think the diverse opinions stem from nothing more than the uncertain nature of college basketball. 90% of freshman are an unknown hit or miss quality over their whole careers, let alone year one. the entire sport is constantly in flux. its way harder to statistically analyze preseason that any pro sport, where players are around for years. even established players make huge leaps and drop offs in their 4 year college windows. this leads to a wide span of both realistic pesimistic and optimistic reasonable results. it is even more pronounced in the high range of possibilites in a program like marquette, which every year is predicted to rank anywhere from 10-50 in the game. if you are here, you care about the game being played at the university, whether you think its good or not. realistically, either side has an equal chance of being proved correct.
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I would like to add a point to Atlanta Warrior's post.
It is not the negativity of this board that bothers me. I appreciate a critical eye. What bothers me is the same handful of posters dominating a large amount of threads, no matter the subject of the thread, with the same 2 or 3 topics...over, and over again. It gets to the point to where it seems like there are 5 murfs on a bad day - back and forth, back and forth - but these 5 aren't even talking hoops half the time. It takes away value from the board, IMO.
Unfortunately several of these rehashes happen in threads with a subject I am interested in, and being the MU hoops junkie that I am, I read every damn page of the thread hoping for any nugget of information to come forth. This becomes frustrating over time.
That being said, the scout site gets inundated with back and forth on bucky talk which is also annoying.
It is like pick your poison sometimes. Not to be a shill, but the absence of my above complaints are why I enjoy the premium board on scout so much.
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Can somebody explain to me what the problem was with the Billingsley thread? Seriously...I didn't see that as anything other than an old recruiting story.
It's irrelevant. Ancient, negative history as opposed to ancient postiive MU BB history in which we (me included) revel and with which we identify.
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.. What bothers me is the same handful of posters dominating a large amount of threads, no matter the subject of the thread, with the same 2 or 3 topics...over, and over again.
This complaint is a frequent one, as there are indeed a few posters who attract criticism for their "volume."
Can you answer this question, as I'm really curious: If it's so bothersome to read these posters, it reduces the value and your enjoyment, why don't you click on "ignore" and free yourself of them, instead of being so bothered?
I mean, it's convenient, simple to use, and it's FREE.
If you don't use it, because you might miss a "nugget of information," haven't you made your choice?
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Can somebody explain to me what the problem was with the Billingsley thread? Seriously...I didn't see that as anything other than an old recruiting story.
I thought it had a douchey, BadgerNation tone to it.
(By the way, are your wives all of a sudden ragging at you about using douche in all of its forms?)
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This complaint is a frequent one, as there are indeed a few posters who attract criticism for their "volume."
Can you answer this question, as I'm really curious: If it's so bothersome to read these posters, it reduces the value and your enjoyment, why don't you click on "ignore" and free yourself of them, instead of being so bothered?
I mean, it's convenient, simple to use, and it's FREE.
If you don't use it, because you might miss a "nugget of information," haven't you made your choice?
To answer your question: I think several of the posters I am referring to do bring good comments and discussion to several threads, thus I don't block them. However, whenever their opposite breaches a certain subject, the same old crap ensues, thus ruining an otherwise good thread. Plus, when I block people, I end up getting curious and unblocking them, which might be worse to me.
Also, I didn't mean my original post to come off as me "being so bothered." Was just voicing a frustration, not the end of the world. I don't think there is much the mods could do to right the situation outside of excessive banning/locking/etc., which I know is not what the board is about. My post was more intended for the posters who beat the same dead horse with the hope that, if enough people agree with me, said posters might think a bit and step back before dominating yet another thread with the same hyperbole.
A half joking suggestion for the mods: Can we get a Hatfield-McCoy forum? You guys could move all threads to this forum that devolve into the same back-and-forth we have seen over and over again. :)
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Can you answer this question, as I'm really curious: If it's so bothersome to read these posters, it reduces the value and your enjoyment, why don't you click on "ignore" and free yourself of them, instead of being so bothered?
I mean, it's convenient, simple to use, and it's FREE.
- For longer threads: 1st page, last page. 90% of the middle is off topic and doesn't add anything. You should be able to determine whether something is speculation or fact from the information on the first page of posts.
- I don't ignore anyone, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
- At the first mention of TC, skip ahead 5 pages.
50 days to go.
And to the mods that run this asylum. Thanks.
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I will say that even our resident, self appointed, moral compass has his place and role here...as does Marquette 84 and his longstanding Crean-mance, and lengthy replies.
In this post, Ners demonstrates EXACTLY what is wrong with this board.
Ner's can't state a case without resorting to a personal attack.
He doesn't like it that I see both the good and the bad. Because I see (and defend) the good things about Crean, and won't sandbag for Buzz, its reason to question my motives.
Ners complains about the length of posts, sometimes it takes a longer to list supporting facts and make a solid case as opposed to simply calling names.
I think the length of some threads would be shorter if people would just admit when they were wrong.
For example, take the thread on the accusation that we didn't have a full roster because of the "coaching change".
I made a simple factual observation that his statement was wrong--that the roster was short mostly because of injuries and unrelated transfers.
Why was it so hard for the original poster to simply admit that if not for injuries to Cadougan, Mbao, and Otule, and unrelated transfers of Maymon and Roesboro, we would have had a full roster of 13 scholarship players last year? And if not for the injuries to Otule, Fulce, and James, and the arguably unrelated transfer of Mbakwe, we would have had a full roster of 13 scholarship players the year before that?
I know this doesn't allow one to shift blame to Crean, but I think you have to be honest and admit that not every adversity can be pinned on Crean simply because you don't like the fact (or the way) that he left.
Finally, this post is about 300 words--about 1/3 the length of your typical magazine article--and written at the 11th grade level--I don't think that's too long or too complex for people to understand.
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Finally, this post is under 300 words--about 1/3 the length of your typical magazine article, and written at the 11th grade level--I trust that is within the limits of comprehension for those on this board.
tl;dr
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It seems to me that when things change and policies change, people will ask questions if for no other reason to ask why the change. When we never used to continue recruiting kids that verballed to other programs but now do, people will ask why the change. Or the roster having more JUCO's as a percentage than ever before (doesn't make it wrong). Not honoring a NLI, Etc, etc. Just a few examples of many (there are others I prefer to keep off the public boards) where people are going to be interested.
MU hoops is all we have at MU...it's a school with only one high profile sport. People are heavily invested in MU hoops in terms of time, money, emotions, etc. And as such, they will ask questions of those leading the organization. I see this as a GOOD THING. It means people care. I would be worried if we just sat back all the time and said, don't worry...everything is fine. With time, people will be more and more comfortable but the reality is we have a young head coach (in terms of tenure), an AD who is still in the very early stages of his career, we belong to a league that everyone and their brother thinks will implode at some point (not if, but when), etc....there is reason for optimism but concern until folks prove themselves out over the long haul. If that means folks are questioning those running the jewel that is MU hoops, well I don't find that out of line at this point in the time line.
We recruit kids who are verbally committed to other programs? Examples please. And don't include recruits who have changed their minds and re-opened their recruitment (see Vander Blue). They are free agents who have never been off limits to Marquette or anyone else.
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We recruit kids who are verbally committed to other programs? Examples please. And don't include recruits who have changed their minds and re-opened their recruitment (see Vander Blue). They are free agents who have never been off limits to Marquette or anyone else.
I think Bilsu's comments answered it rather succinctly. If you want me to give you names privately, I'm happy to do so (send me a PM) ...but yes, we've continued to pursue despite verbals now.
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Even when some bring up former players (such as Terrell Schulndt) recently it's only to make some form of negative comment. This from people who couldn't carry Terrell Schulndt's jock strap on their best the days./quote]
I am the one who started the Schlundt thread. I ran into Terrell for the first time in 10 years. We have known each other since freshman year. I knew him when he worked at the freight forwarding company at the Milwaukee airport. I lost touch and had not heard about his move to the debt collection agency. He told me about that career move when we ran into each other at an airport.
So what was negative about that thread? I related his willingness to play the 5 when clearly that was not his place. He did it for the team. I brought up how he played on despite a severely broken nose. He played with the heart of a warrior. He was a great guy on one of the last competitive teams before we entered the Dark Ages. Please tell me what was wrong with this?
If anything, you should explain to people here why you started this PMS fueled rage against the machine...
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Oh, yeah, well MU dropped football my senior year. How do you think that makes me feel now? Not too good, mister, not too good.
No offense, but I am amazed that older people like to post on these types of boards. I hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old.
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What you don't realize is that posting on this board follows a session of wild monkey sex with our old ladies.
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No offense, but I am amazed that older people like to post on these types of boards. I hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old.
Without the input of older posters you'd have no knowledge of what its like to actually win an NCAA tournament, and you might think the 2003 run was as far as MU ever advanced. lol
Next time, you may want avoid the ironic contradiction of beginning your post with the words "no offense" and end with ...."hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old."
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Next time, you may want avoid the ironic contradiction of beginning your post with the words "no offense" and end with ...."hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old."
Well it's true, I hope I am still able to consume solid food.
As far as I know (from watching games live) Marquette has only gone to the actual weekend games of the first weekend of the tournament... I started in the Fall of 2003. :-/
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Without the input of older posters you'd have no knowledge of what its like to actually win an NCAA tournament, and you might think the 2003 run was as far as MU ever advanced. lol
Next time, you may want avoid the ironic contradiction of beginning your post with the words "no offense" and end with ...."hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old."
"No offense..." = "I'm going to insult you, but don't get mad."
You should know that.
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This is a bit off topic, but this is probably the most appropriate thread to say this.
I was just typing a response in another thread, and when I was almost finished, I thought to myself, "who gives a s*#t?!" So I backed out and didn't hit post. I do this fairly often (probably not often enough for some people's liking). I think the board might be more pleasant if I -- and others -- did this more often.
This is not directed at anyone in particular.
I almost did the same thing with this post. Probably should have.
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So I backed out and didn't hit post. I do this fairly often (probably not often enough for some people's liking).
I end up doing that quite frequently too. Sometimes it helps to get it out of my system even if I don't post what I was thinking :)
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I end up doing that quite frequently too. Sometimes it helps to get it out of my system even if I don't post what I was thinking :)
The "preview" function is a very helpful tool...
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I do agree with those who posted here that this is their favorite board. There are the positivos on this board who often see Marquette, players, history, and the team in the best of light. There are the negativos here, who often see more downside, questionable decisions, disappointing players, etc.. And then there are those in the middle.
I think all three groups are quite helpful... a sort of checks and balances for one to get the truth of the matter. The only group I don't like are those who masquerade as Marquette fans but are nothing but haters and are really fans of other programs. You can be as negative as you want as long as at the end of the day, in your heart of hearts, you are cheering for Marquette.
If you are truly not cheering for Marquette but pretend to be a fan... well I believe Dante reserved a special place for you. ;D
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I end up doing that quite frequently too. Sometimes it helps to get it out of my system even if I don't post what I was thinking
+1000
Many times I will type out a response and realize that the stubborness on this board is amazing and its not worth it when it comes to many topics that are just beating a dead horse.
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What is wrong with dysfunctional? ;D
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No offense, but I am amazed that older people like to post on these types of boards. I hope I am able to still consume solid foods when I am that old.
A persistent worry of mine is the lengths that our young people will have to go to keep "solid foods" on our (olds folks) tables. In your case I'll make an exception - I'm totally ok with you putting in 70-80 hours a week to keep me happy until I'm 100. I may even live an extra 5 years just to piss you off. No offense.
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Lame post, from a noob
thats my 2 cents.
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A persistent worry of mine is the lengths that our young people will have to go to keep "solid foods" on our (olds folks) tables. In your case I'll make an exception - I'm totally ok with you putting in 70-80 hours a week to keep me happy until I'm 100. I may even live an extra 5 years just to piss you off. No offense.
I'll stay off your lawn as well.
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Wow....not sure if I should read this thread or watch Dr. Phil, both provide some pretty sob stories.
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I'll stay off your lawn as well.
Children are and have always been welcome to play on our lawn. Most people have moved past it at your age, but if playing running bases or lacrosse with 12 year olds is your thing come on by.
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What bothers me is the same handful of posters dominating a large amount of threads, no matter the subject of the thread, with the same 2 or 3 topics...over, and over again.
It gets to the point to where it seems like there are 5 murfs on a bad day - back and forth, back and forth - but these 5 aren't even talking hoops half the time.
The Murf reference made me laugh. :)
I really think it's a secret race to who has the most posts on MUScoop. ;p