MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: lurch91 on July 29, 2010, 09:57:50 AM
-
Read an article in this mornings Indy Star (I'm posting this from my phone and can't link the article). The article was about BJ Young, and how IU and Crean might possibly land this kid. At Rivals.com BJ is listed as a PG and at #33 in the 2011 class, and his top 5 is Indiana, Arkansas, MARQUETTE, Illinois State and Baylor.
The article also mentioned he has academic "questions", which potentially limited major college interest.
-
Maybe he'll go the juco route with those academic concerns :o
-
Prep school is more likely than Juco. the advantage of prep school is you still have four years you can play. Juco leaves you with only 2.
-
Maybe he'll go the juco route with those academic concerns :o
we should stay far far away. We don't want this dirtbag sullying the reputation of our university and destabilizing our basketball program.
-
Prep school is more likely than Juco. the advantage of prep school is you still have four years you can play. Juco leaves you with only 2.
Which leads me to a question I've always had about prep schools... who pays for them and how much do they generally cost? If they are paid for by some benefactor (legally), why doesn't everyone opt for the prep route vs. JUCO to keep those two years of eligibility?
-
Which leads me to a question I've always had about prep schools... who pays for them and how much do they generally cost? If they are paid for by some benefactor (legally), why doesn't everyone opt for the prep route vs. JUCO to keep those two years of eligibility?
Ive wondered the same thing. Some of the popular prep schools cost as much as 30k per year. Obviously, most recruits cant afford that. Regardless, I think its a regional thing as the vast majority of the country's prep schools (boarding schools) are in the northeast and service northeast kids.
-
In terms of who pays for a players tuition, there really isnt an exact answer as it depends on the conference the school plays in. I believe some of the catholic prep schools here in the northeast have 'sponsors' (deep pocket alums) that actually cover a kid's tuition. Other schools base it all on financial aid and availability of funds. If a school wants to win at any cost, they will find the money to bring in a player or two or three.
-
Read an article in this mornings Indy Star (I'm posting this from my phone and can't link the article). The article was about BJ Young, and how IU and Crean might possibly land this kid. At Rivals.com BJ is listed as a PG and at #33 in the 2011 class, and his top 5 is Indiana, Arkansas, MARQUETTE, Illinois State and Baylor.
The article also mentioned he has academic "questions", which potentially limited major college interest.
How could IU and Tom Crean considering taking such a risk and signing an academic risk?? I hope IU maintains its tradition of signing quality kids with good character and intelligence as it did under Bobby Knight. I do not want IU to become known as a university similar to Marquette that takes chances on high-risk kids such as Young or JUCO's or Dwayne Wade-types.
Okay..I'll get off my high-horse and pompous rant. Yes, this message was written with full on sarcasm thanks to our resident posting champion..Mr. ChicosBailbonds himself.
-
we should stay far far away. We don't want this dirtbag sullying the reputation of our university and destabilizing our basketball program.
But, but... he would be a four year player. Isn't that a stabilizing product?
-
Prep school is more likely than Juco. the advantage of prep school is you still have four years you can play. Juco leaves you with only 2.
Which is ideal for everyone.
Get the kid for 4 years instead of 2 years and let him work on his grades.
For some reason people here don't get that.
We would rather have a guy for years rather than....right? Less turnover, more stability, etc
-
we should stay far far away. We don't want this dirtbag sullying the reputation of our university and destabilizing our basketball program.
Not disagreeing with you, but, what is in his past that makes you feel that he is a poor fit for MU? Just looking for info. Thanks.
-
It's sarcasm because we know MU's foundation is about to crumble what with unstable 3 and 2 year JUCOs on our roster(who are probably thugs and will bring bad press, according to Chicos' life perspective bias).
-
How could IU and Tom Crean considering taking such a risk and signing an academic risk?? I hope IU maintains its tradition of signing quality kids with good character and intelligence as it did under Bobby Knight. I do not want IU to become known as a university similar to Marquette that takes chances on high-risk kids such as Young or JUCO's or Dwayne Wade-types.
I wouldn't worry about IU. If the kid's any good, he won't be going there anyway.
-
Crean may be hoping desperately to get a BJ.
Some here may really like and hope to get a BJ.
Others think we should have to wait a while for a BJ.
Some may think getting a BJ could sully a reputation.
Personally, I'd really be excited to land a BJ.
If availability of a BJ is in 2011, or a year after--- thats really too long to wait, and no one can rate a BJ accurately that is a still a year off.
.......Oh wait.....
I just realized something....
This board and this thread are for discussions about basketball.
A "BJ" has nothing to do with basketball.
Never mind......
I need to go downstairs and see if my wife is interested in a BJ--bye.
lol
-
Which is ideal for everyone.
Get the kid for 4 years instead of 2 years and let him work on his grades.
And if he can't hack it and bombs out, how does he benefit from that? How does that promote stability? I know watching Dameon Mason play PG in the 2004 NIT just screamed stability.
Some people don't seem to get that JC can be a very positive option for the player, as well as the D1 school that may eventually ends up with that kid. Is Jimmy Butler's MU degree going to be any less valuable because he attanded a JC? Of course not. Maybe just the opposite.
-
Crean may be hoping desperately to get a BJ.
Some here may really like and hope to get a BJ.
Others think we should have to wait a while for a BJ.
Some may think getting a BJ could sully a reputation.
Personally, I'd really be excited to land a BJ.
If availability of a BJ is in 2011, or a year after--- thats really too long to wait, and no one can rate a BJ accurately that is a still a year off.
.......Oh wait.....
I just realized something....
This board and this thread are for discussions about basketball.
A "BJ" has nothing to do with basketball.
Never mind......
I need to go downstairs and see if my wife is interested in a BJ--bye.
lol
Wow. :o
Good luck with that. ;D
-
My daughter graduated from HS, but was not ready (for a variety of reasons)for 4 year college. She went to a 2 year college, is now an outstanding addition to MU's Class of 2012.
My point is: there are many reasons why a kid would go JUCO. If Buzz is finding good kids, who are a credit to MU (all indications point that way), who cares. I would prefer that we get the best 4 year players (My preference was that my daughter would be at MU for 4 years), but I really don't care. It has all worked out.
-
Agreed, mu-rara.
If the kid comes from a JUCO, prep school, HS, university, foreign country...as long as he's got a good head on his shoulders, can ball well, and is dedicated to the Blue and Gold...
good for him and the MU program.
-
How could IU and Tom Crean considering taking such a risk and signing an academic risk?? I hope IU maintains its tradition of signing quality kids with good character and intelligence as it did under Bobby Knight. I do not want IU to become known as a university similar to Marquette that takes chances on high-risk kids such as Young or JUCO's or Dwayne Wade-types.
Okay..I'll get off my high-horse and pompous rant. Yes, this message was written with full on sarcasm thanks to our resident posting champion..Mr. ChicosBailbonds himself.
Indiana's last national championship was won on the backs of two Juco transfers in the starting lineup..including the game winning shot by a Juco..keith Smart
-
Crean may be hoping desperately to get a BJ.
Some here may really like and hope to get a BJ.
Others think we should have to wait a while for a BJ.
Some may think getting a BJ could sully a reputation.
Personally, I'd really be excited to land a BJ.
If availability of a BJ is in 2011, or a year after--- thats really too long to wait, and no one can rate a BJ accurately that is a still a year off.
.......Oh wait.....
I just realized something....
This board and this thread are for discussions about basketball.
A "BJ" has nothing to do with basketball.
Never mind......
I need to go downstairs and see if my wife is interested in a BJ--bye.
lol
My favorite part about this post was the "lol" inserted at the end.
-
My daughter graduated from HS, but was not ready (for a variety of reasons)for 4 year college. She went to a 2 year college, is now an outstanding addition to MU's Class of 2012.
My point is: there are many reasons why a kid would go JUCO. If Buzz is finding good kids, who are a credit to MU (all indications point that way), who cares. I would prefer that we get the best 4 year players (My preference was that my daughter would be at MU for 4 years), but I really don't care. It has all worked out.
I agree with this 100%.
And deep down, Chico's, you know you do too.
I know you are fearful of MU turning into some sort of JUCO basketball factory... but let's just put a qualifier on this whole argument and be done with it:
Buzz Williams needs to recruit great basketball players who are good people. They don't have to be perfect athletically or academically, but they have to be good representatives of MU from the moment they sign up.
It doesn't matter where they come from, if they can be great at basketball, good students and good people, they are a fine addition to MU and we are proud to have them.
That's it. It's not more complicated than that. Everybody needs to get out of the minutia and look at the big picture.
JUCO. Venezuela. Senegal. Israel. Chicago. Wauwatosa. Does. Not. Matter. At. All.
-
I don't think you get it, yet insist people like I don't. I'd love all players to be here for four years, but I also love having players like DJO and JB. I think Buzz was right to take them. Does your rule apply to transfers as well. We didn't have Robert Jackson long, but it worked out alright. How about players who are likely with us for one or two years and then to the NBA? You mention all the big time schools recruiting four year players, yet they see many leave early. They have the mentality to get the best players they can, and if they leave they leave. Sounds similar to what Buzz is doing in many ways.
Which is ideal for everyone.
Get the kid for 4 years instead of 2 years and let him work on his grades.
For some reason people here don't get that.
We would rather have a guy for years rather than....right? Less turnover, more stability, etc
-
I'm figuring houwarrior has a better chance of that happening with his girlfriend than with his wife. Right ZFB?
-
I'm figuring houwarrior has a better chance of that happening with his girlfriend than with his wife. Right ZFB?
Studies have proven that, in most cases, you are more likely to get a BJ from a girlfriend than a wife. In most cases. ;)
-
further, reality is that the best way to ruin the girlfriend/bj scenario..., is to make her your wife.
-
Not disagreeing with you, but, what is in his past that makes you feel that he is a poor fit for MU? Just looking for info. Thanks.
Sarcasm...I prefer to not use teal.
-
Sarcasm...I prefer to not use teal.
I understand people don't like to use teal, but someone that isn't aware of all the inside jokes and obscure references on this board could seriously mis-interpret your first comment.
-
I understand people don't like to use teal, but someone that isn't aware of all the inside jokes and obscure references on this board could seriously mis-interpret your first comment.
That's true....still not going to use teal.
-
How could IU and Tom Crean considering taking such a risk and signing an academic risk??
With Glass and McRobbie taking off the handcuffs slowly, then they will be able to go after a more riskier type of player. First few years, not allowed as I already stated awhile back. As they get further and further away from the Sampson era, they will be allowed to take more chances on recruits, including academically risky ones. Don't be surprised if Crean wins this kid.
What's wrong with going after an academically risky player? Marquette has been doing it for decades.
-
Chicos, do you even enjoy MU basketball anymore? Something that causes me as much angst as you are showing just wouldn't be worth it anymore.
-
Chicos, do you even enjoy MU basketball anymore? Something that causes me as much angst as you are showing just wouldn't be worth it anymore.
This post and my earlier post on BJ, were blended to answer your question about Chicos:
In the words of Good Morning Vietnam's Adrian Cronauer:
.....
" You know, Sir...you're in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history.~"
Adrian Cronauer
lol
-
I agree with this 100%.
And deep down, Chico's, you know you do too.
I know you are fearful of MU turning into some sort of JUCO basketball factory... but let's just put a qualifier on this whole argument and be done with it:
Buzz Williams needs to recruit great basketball players who are good people. They don't have to be perfect athletically or academically, but they have to be good representatives of MU from the moment they sign up.
It doesn't matter where they come from, if they can be great at basketball, good students and good people, they are a fine addition to MU and we are proud to have them.
That's it. It's not more complicated than that. Everybody needs to get out of the minutia and look at the big picture.
JUCO. Venezuela. Senegal. Israel. Chicago. Wauwatosa. Does. Not. Matter. At. All.
I will gladly discriminate against basketball players from 'Tosa.
-
I will gladly discriminate against basketball players from 'Tosa.
Psh, don't hate on Tosa. There are quite a few exceptionally good-looking, intelligent, talented and internat-savvy young men coming out of that town and having successful careers after graduating from MU ;)
-
Psh, don't hate on Tosa. There are quite a few exceptionally good-looking, intelligent, talented and internat-savvy young men coming out of that town and having successful careers after graduating from MU ;)
Know anyone from your 'hood that you would want repping MU on the basketball court? I think not.
Stick to soccer, hippies. :P
-
With Glass and McRobbie taking off the handcuffs slowly, then they will be able to go after a more riskier type of player. First few years, not allowed as I already stated awhile back. As they get further and further away from the Sampson era, they will be allowed to take more chances on recruits, including academically risky ones. Don't be surprised if Crean wins this kid.
What's wrong with going after an academically risky player? Marquette has been doing it for decades.
Always glass half full for indiana, half empty for MU. You are so entertaining, but quickly losing some credibility. Thanks for keeping me interested during the slow summer period.
-
Know anyone from your 'hood that you would want repping MU on the basketball court? I think not.
Stick to soccer, hippies. :P
We could use Scott Merritt for another couple years :P
-
Know anyone from your 'hood that you would want repping MU on the basketball court? I think not.
Stick to soccer, hippies. :P
Tony smith turned out ok. Aren't the field fairies more entrenched in Brookfield and Elm Grove?
-
Chicos, do you even enjoy MU basketball anymore? Something that causes me as much angst as you are showing just wouldn't be worth it anymore.
Of course I do. Isn't that the point, that which you love most is also what concerns you most? What you care about most is often what causes angst, concerns, etc? I'd like MU to do it the right way and aspire to be the best in the process, that's the ENTIRE POINT.
I think Buzz is a really good guy, a good person. He's proving to be a good coach also. There are a few decisions in the "upward trajectory" that are concerning to me and others, that is very true. Doesn't mean I would abandon the institution of MU basketball.
The US gov't causes me and millions angst every day....should of all us just give up on the country because it wouldn't be worth it anymore? Should we all just shut up, bend over and take it?
-
Always glass half full for indiana, half empty for MU. You are so entertaining, but quickly losing some credibility. Thanks for keeping me interested during the slow summer period.
Oh please. ALWAYS or NEVER, those types of words are from people that don't take the time to read and make blanket comments. I say plenty of positive things about MU, Buzz, etc all the time, thus killing your "always" nonsense right there. Just as I have blasted TC time and again for being a douche, an a-hole, etc...you just choose to read what you read. Pure laziness on your part, that's all it is.
-
Oh please. ALWAYS or NEVER, those types of words are from people that don't take the time to read and make blanket comments. I say plenty of positive things about MU, Buzz, etc all the time, thus killing your "always" nonsense right there. Just as I have blasted TC time and again for being a douche, an a-hole, etc...you just choose to read what you read. Pure laziness on your part, that's all it is.
Ok hows this: Usually half full for Indiana and usually half empty for MU. Sorry those two words upset you so much, and by the way ussually your good things about Buzz are followed by qualifiers.
As far as the laziness part, how the hell do you know wether I am lazy. Are you over my shoulder watching me read every post. Maybe after my 7,800th post I will be as knowledgeable as you until then spare me the arrogance. I read the posts that interest me when i have time. I enjoy most of yours even if I disagree.
-
Tony smith turned out ok. Aren't the field fairies more entrenched in Brookfield and Elm Grove?
"Hippies?" "Field fairies?" Lots of soccer hate, no? Why? Ever try playing the game?
-
"Hippies?" "Field fairies?" Lots of soccer hate, no? Why? Ever try playing the game?
Just kidding, no hate. I will never get it and never play it or even watch it, (except for my 5 year olds team) I am fine with people who do like it, play it and watch it. Just not for me for whatever reason.
-
Ok hows this: Usually half full for Indiana and usually half empty for MU. Sorry those two words upset you so much, and by the way ussually your good things about Buzz are followed by qualifiers.
As far as the laziness part, how the hell do you know wether I am lazy. Are you over my shoulder watching me read every post. Maybe after my 7,800th post I will be as knowledgeable as you until then spare me the arrogance. I read the posts that interest me when i have time. I enjoy most of yours even if I disagree.
I say lazy in terms of general commentary, not personally saying you are lazy, only that your comments were lazy. My point is when people say "you always" or "you never", those are lazy statements that don't come close to being accurate. They are nothing but generalities.
Peace
-
I say lazy in terms of general commentary, not personally saying you are lazy, only that your comments were lazy. My point is when people say "you always" or "you never", those are lazy statements that don't come close to being accurate. They are nothing but generalities.
Peace
Those who are losing arguements like to refer to semantics, it's a tried and true practice.
-
Those who are losing arguements like to refer to semantics, it's a tried and true practice.
So are using terms like "lil man", etc....a sure sign that there is no substance behind your arguement (sic).
-
How about some on topic discussion?
NBE reported that BJ Young was a standout so far this week in Orlando, could drive at will and seemed to pass better and more often than some reports let on.
Is the 2011 class too early to be recruiting Junoir's replacement? It would seem frm Buzz's interest that MU sees Blue as 2.
-
How about some on topic discussion?
NBE reported that BJ Young was a standout so far this week in Orlando, could drive at will and seemed to pass better and more often than some reports let on.
Is the 2011 class too early to be recruiting Junoir's replacement? It would seem frm Buzz's interest that MU sees Blue as 2.
Buzz has said that ideally he'd like to recruit a point guard in every class - so not sure that his involvement/interest in a point reflect he sees Blue as a 2. Just had breakfast with a fellow MU alum that is a native of Indiana - and he said IU feels good about their chances to land BJ Young - FWIW.
All I know is like everyone else...I'm looking forward to hearing about our next commit..we could use some new topic/news here.
-
Two comments. Last year we had a good chance at signing Coleman, a top 40 player who had questionable grades. We apparently backed off and he signed with Louisville. That was a very bad result.
Do we need another point guard. Definitely, Cadougan already had an achillies heal injury. He could never get hurt again or he could be done tomorrow.
-
Bad result for who?
-
So are using terms like "lil man", etc....a sure sign that there is no substance behind your arguement (sic).
Yep, I called you little man and then proceeded to make my point. My whole post wasn't only about semantics, something people resort to when they no longer can make compelling points. I also don't feel the need to point out other people's typos, as I'm pretty sure most of the people here graduated from MU and know how to spell basic words. Of course, you ripped on a player's intellectual ability because he mixed up a couple words, something none of us have ever, ever done.
Back to the topic...BJ Young looks like a very nice prospect based on the recruiting rankings. Maybe I missed it, but does anybody know if he is more of a pure point like Cadougan or a scoring point like Reggie Smith?
-
I say lazy in terms of general commentary, not personally saying you are lazy, only that your comments were lazy. My point is when people say "you always" or "you never", those are lazy statements that don't come close to being accurate. They are nothing but generalities.
Peace
Ok get it. Didn't mean "never" or "always" in a literal sense but point taken.
-
Of course, you ripped on a player's intellectual ability because he mixed up a couple words, something none of us have ever, ever done.
Wanna bet?
-
Wanna bet?
???
I was being sarcastic. We have all messed up a few words on occasion, obviously. Maybe I didn't write that very clear.
-
???
I was being sarcastic. We have all messed up a few words on occasion, obviously. Maybe I didn't write that very clear.
You were clear. Chicos is having a bad week and taking it out on the forums.
-
Dave Telep tweeted earlier this afternoon:
"Lookout BJ Young just eliminated the long island lightning by dropping 47 on them! 47 points!"
-
Someone should tell BJ that if he commits to IU, he'll be dribbling east and west for 30 sec. on each possession and then hoisting up contested 3 pointers.
-
Two comments. Last year we had a good chance at signing Coleman, a top 40 player who had questionable grades. We apparently backed off and he signed with Louisville. That was a very bad result.
Do we need another point guard. Definitely, Cadougan already had an achillies heal injury. He could never get hurt again or he could be done tomorrow.
Bilsu, just wondering again who you think this ended up being a bad result for?
-
Someone should tell BJ that if he commits to IU, he'll be dribbling east and west for 30 sec. on each possession and then hoisting up contested 3 pointers.
OMG i just puked in my mouth!
-
Bilsu, just wondering again who you think this ended up being a bad result for?
MU lost a very good player to conference rival. Would have been better to sign him than Newbill. Would have kept him from going to Louisville, which was the worst part about it.
-
MU lost a very good player to conference rival. Would have been better to sign him than Newbill. Would have kept him from going to Louisville, which was the worst part about it.
Reports from the Louisville board right now are that Coleman is unlikely to qualify.
-
Reports from the Louisville board right now are that Coleman is unlikely to qualify.
;D
-
Reports from the Louisville board right now are that Coleman is unlikely to qualify.
Exactly my point, that is why I was asking who Bilsu thought it had turned out bad for. Looks to me like it worked out well for MU as we got Blue, Coleman doesn't appear to be qualified, which leaves Louisville a scholarship player short. I am glad MU is not in that position.
-
Exactly my point, that is why I was asking who Bilsu thought it had turned out bad for. Looks to me like it worked out well for MU as we got Blue, Coleman doesn't appear to be qualified, which leaves Louisville a scholarship player short. I am glad MU is not in that position.
However, one of the reasons the 6'9" center picked Louisville over MU in the spring was that he was friends with Coleman.
-
However, one of the reasons the 6'9" center picked Louisville over MU in the spring was that he was friends with Coleman.
-
Committed to Arkansas yesterday
-
Committed to Arkansas yesterday
Arkansas seems to be in on ALOT of top recruits. Is John Pelhprey really a good recruiter/coach? Something seems a little amiss about Arkansas being in on so many top kids.
-
Arkansas seems to be in on ALOT of top recruits. Is John Pelhprey really a good recruiter/coach? Something seems a little amiss about Arkansas being in on so many top kids.
No reason to imply impropriety until there is a real reason to do so. Arkansas has been a big program before, and there is plenty of talent in the south.
They have a very nice class coming in. In addition to Young, two more top 100 forwards. I'd love to have a class like that locked up right now.
-
No reason to imply impropriety until there is a real reason to do so. Arkansas has been a big program before, and there is plenty of talent in the south.
Yup...still remember them costing me a winner-take-all NCAA pool back in 1995. Had they beat UCLA in the final, I'd have won the pot, and $120 was a lot of money for me when I was making $5/hour as a part-time grocery clerk. Damn Nolan Richardson couldn't seal the deal >:(
-
Arkansas seems to be in on ALOT of top recruits. Is John Pelhprey really a good recruiter/coach? Something seems a little amiss about Arkansas being in on so many top kids.
Reserve judgment for 5 years.
-
No reason to imply impropriety until there is a real reason to do so. Arkansas has been a big program before, and there is plenty of talent in the south.
They have a very nice class coming in. In addition to Young, two more top 100 forwards. I'd love to have a class like that locked up right now.
See your point - guess it just seems a little odd that under Pelphrey's they've gone 14-18 and 14-17, and now land 3 Top 100 kids - plus were listed on many other To 100 kids lists. It's been practically 15 years since Arkansas was any good under Richardson.
Reserve judgment for 5 years.
How could I forget? Thanks for the reminder.
-
See your point - guess it just seems a little odd that under Pelphrey's they've gone 14-18 and 14-17, and now land 3 Top 100 kids - plus were listed on many other To 100 kids lists. It's been practically 15 years since Arkansas was any good under Richardson.
How could I forget? Thanks for the reminder.
There are many programs that take a few years under coaches to get going. I believe Crean was 15-14 his first two years until year three when we won 25 or whatever it was. Just as there are many programs that continue winning ways with brand new coaches and then they bomb out in the 4th or 5th year.
Al McGuire
8-18 year one
14-12 year two
The way some talk here, he would be a disaster at 22-30 after two years.
This is why it's good to wait and not pass judgment so quickly. Give a coach at least 4 years to have all his kids go through a cycle, then you have a good idea of what is going to be the real long term analysis. Doesn't mean you can't analyze as you go, but falling in love or proclaiming a coach a disaster, a failure, or the next Al McGuire does the coach no service.
-
I think I read that Young has family in the Arkansas area. I believe I read that on an IU board (and yes I am an MU fan since that needs to be clarified). So that could explain why he was looking at Arkansas.
We've seen all the talent that is in the south since Buzz was hired and we are in on more Southern guys. It isn't a stretch to believe that a school that has some tradition in the SEC is able to pull in some recruits. Especially with a newer coach that might be an up and comer like Buzz. People could probably be saying the same about MU in the South. I don't think it means he's dirty if he's bringing in top recruits to a school that isn't a traditional power.
-
There are many programs that take a few years under coaches to get going. I believe Crean was 15-14 his first two years until year three when we won 25 or whatever it was. Just as there are many programs that continue winning ways with brand new coaches and then they bomb out in the 4th or 5th year.
Al McGuire
8-18 year one
14-12 year two
The way some talk here, he would be a disaster at 22-30 after two years.
This is why it's good to wait and not pass judgment so quickly. Give a coach at least 4 years to have all his kids go through a cycle, then you have a good idea of what is going to be the real long term analysis. Doesn't mean you can't analyze as you go, but falling in love or proclaiming a coach a disaster, a failure, or the next Al McGuire does the coach no service.
As is frequently the case, Chicos uses facts (McGuire's 8-18 and 14-12 records in his first 2 years) to come to totally bogus conclusions (some people here would call that a disaster, this is WHY it's good to wait and not pass judgement so quickly, etc) He does this by totally ignoring context, something that renders his "facts" meaningless or even contradictory to the conclusions he draws from them.
The context (facts omitted) is that MU was 4-24 the year before Al arrived and that George Thompson was going to be a sophmore in Al's third year (freshmen were ineligible back then). So the truth of the matter was that AL had completely turned the program around in two years and was being hailed a savior by anyone who knew anything about MU basketball. Nice try, though.
-
Thanks for the additional context Lenny - you illustrate a good point about how McGuire improved MU from a 4-24 team to 14-12 team after Year 2. On the contrary, at Arkansas Pelphrey was hired April 9, 2007. The 2006-2007 team went 21-14. His first team at Ark, the 2007-2008 team went 23-11, 2008-2009 team went 14-16, 2009-2010 team, 14-17. The program seems to be slipping under Pelphrey's watch. I guess that was my original point - what can the guy be selling that has so many recruits listing Arkansas in their Top 5? Have they turned out any recent pro players? Pelphrey's track record isn't very good thus far as head coach?
While it probably isn't right to imply there are some improprities going on at Arkansas, something seems a little amiss.
-
As is frequently the case, Chicos uses facts (McGuire's 8-18 and 14-12 records in his first 2 years) to come to totally bogus conclusions (some people here would call that a disaster, this is WHY it's good to wait and not pass judgement so quickly, etc) He does this by totally ignoring context, something that renders his "facts" meaningless or even contradictory to the conclusions he draws from them.
The context (facts omitted) is that MU was 4-24 the year before Al arrived and that George Thompson was going to be a sophmore in Al's third year (freshmen were ineligible back then). So the truth of the matter was that AL had completely turned the program around in two years and was being hailed a savior by anyone who knew anything about MU basketball. Nice try, though.
Actually, you proved my point for me, thank you. Too many people here DON'T use context which is why they make absurd proclamations....for example your latest ridiculous post on Indiana and Crean's record...where was the "context" there? Tit caught in a ringer Lenny? I love when you try to have it both ways, it's so cute.
LOL
-
Actually, you proved my point for me, thank you. Too many people here DON'T use context which is why they make absurd proclamations....for example your latest ridiculous post on Indiana and Crean's record...where was the "context" there? Tit caught in a ringer Lenny? I love when you try to have it both ways, it's so cute.
LOL
You use facts (numbers) to prove a point. A closer examination of those facts not only demonstrates a flaw in your conclusion but suggests the exact OPPOSITE of your conclusion. So you being dead wrong somehow proves your point?
Pretzel Logic 101. LOLindeed.
-
I wasn't dead wrong. I was showing an example of the twisted logic people use here all the time, something you've done in your own example just in the last few days. Oh the irony.
Some people, like yourself, just look at the record and crap on certain programs and coaches with no context at all. (care to take a step back in the memory machine say, oh, 3 days ago)
Yet, when the Gospel fills you, you decide context is a wonderful thing to use in the same situation with a different coach and school.
LOL, indeed.
-
I wasn't dead wrong. I was showing an example of the twisted logic people use here all the time, something you've done in your own example just in the last few days. Oh the irony.
Some people, like yourself, just look at the record and crap on certain programs and coaches with no context at all. (care to take a step back in the memory machine say, oh, 3 days ago)
Yet, when the Gospel fills you, you decide context is a wonderful thing to use in the same situation with a different coach and school.
LOL, indeed.
You argued that McGuire's performance in his first two years would have MU fans calling for his head. Dead Wrong. He was viewed as a Savior. You argued that no conclusions could be drawn based on those two years. Dead wrong. Anyone and everyone paying attention knew he would be a star. Dead, Dead Wrong, as you assumed the opposite.
Now, instead of making cryptic references to some post of mine why don't you print it and explain how I took something out of context or used poor logic. I won't hold my breath.
-
You argued that McGuire's performance in his first two years would have MU fans calling for his head. Dead Wrong. He was viewed as a Savior. You argued that no conclusions could be drawn based on those two years. Dead wrong. Anyone and everyone paying attention knew he would be a star. Dead, Dead Wrong, as you assumed the opposite.
Now, instead of making cryptic references to some post of mine why don't you print it and explain how I took something out of context or used poor logic. I won't hold my breath.
I knew after Crean's 3rd and 4th seasons that he was destined for stardom... errr... wait. Maybe not.
-
I knew after Crean's 3rd and 4th seasons that he was destined for stardom... errr... wait. Maybe not.
Al after two years was a lock. After four years TC was giving off what turned out to be false positives. With the real ones you can tell much more quickly. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
-
You argued that McGuire's performance in his first two years would have MU fans calling for his head. Dead Wrong. He was viewed as a Savior. You argued that no conclusions could be drawn based on those two years. Dead wrong. Anyone and everyone paying attention knew he would be a star. Dead, Dead Wrong, as you assumed the opposite.
Now, instead of making cryptic references to some post of mine why don't you print it and explain how I took something out of context or used poor logic. I won't hold my breath.
Jesus H. Christ....I get that you're a stock broker and words don't mean much, but try again. Context, remember...context. We all get that he was considered a savior back then. THAT WAS NOT WHAT I SAID THOUGH, WAS IT? I said the way "people HERE talk" (as in TODAY's POSTERS...TODAY, not 1968 MU Scoop posters, TODAY's posters) would say something different because they don't use context. They just look at the record. Just like YOU DID, when talking about a certain other coach the other day and his program....oh the irony.
DO YOU GET IT NOW? Are you capable of using CONTEXT?
Here's just ONE example of late, with NO CONTEXT...which is ironic as hell.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21364.msg230351#msg230351
-
What does the H. stand for. Can't we all just get along and be friends?
-
Harold.
-
Jesus H. Christ....I get that your a stock broker and words don't mean much, but try again. Context, remember...context. We all get that he was considered a savior back then. THAT WAS NOT WHAT I SAID THOUGH, WAS IT? I said the way "people HERE talk" (as in TODAY's POSTERS...TODAY, not 1968 MU Scoop posters, TODAY's posters) would say something different because they don't use context. They just look at the record. Just like YOU DID, when talking about a certain other coach the other day and his program....oh the irony.
DO YOU GET IT NOW? Are you capable of using CONTEXT?
Here's just ONE example of late, with NO CONTEXT...which is ironic as hell.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21364.msg230351#msg230351
Again, you seem to not understand the realm of context. You directed us to the above thread and Lenny's wrote the following: 16-46 overall, 5-31 in conference, 0-2 in big 10 post season play. That's no success any way you slice it. They did lead the nation in % of victories that resulted in storming the court, though most would consider that another negative.
This was in response to the a poster who wrote about TC's IU team: And the team has experienced limited success during Crean's tenure so far. Now as far as contexgt from your perspective - I'm sure you would try to argue what TC walked into at Indiana..thus justifying the horrendous start thus far. I get that..but Lenny's was simply commenting on the person who wrote "limited success thus far," and truthfully..in sports..success is measured in wins and losses...period. The context you speak of..really is primarily just excuse making to try to justify the poor performance, thus far of TC at IU.
-
Al after two years was a lock. After four years TC was giving off what turned out to be false positives. With the real ones you can tell much more quickly. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I think you have to see a coach get his own players, recruit a few classes, and see how the graduation rate is going.
If after year 4 a coach sucks, and the incoming recruits don't look good, I think the writing is on the wall.
If after year 1, the team is great and the recruiting looks good, I'm excited, but not entirely sold.
Back to your regularly scheduled debates.
-
Jesus H. Christ....I get that your a stock broker and words don't mean much, but try again. Context, remember...context. We all get that he was considered a savior back then. THAT WAS NOT WHAT I SAID THOUGH, WAS IT? I said the way "people HERE talk" (as in TODAY's POSTERS...TODAY, not 1968 MU Scoop posters, TODAY's posters) would say something different because they don't use context. They just look at the record. Just like YOU DID, when talking about a certain other coach the other day and his program....oh the irony.
DO YOU GET IT NOW? Are you capable of using CONTEXT?
Here's just ONE example of late, with NO CONTEXT...which is ironic as hell.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21364.msg230351#msg230351
Swearing, YELLING and personal insults are the refuge of a man without an argument. The fact is that no MU fans past or present would have ripped McGuire after his first two years and any suggestion that they would have is as false as it is insulting. Saying that Al's first two years prove that one must wait 4-5 years to determine a coach's ability is an example of a wrong conclusion drawn from a wrong assumption. The posters you denigate here would have (as I did) seen Al as a superstar in the making after year two. You would have been so far, so good tepid. Anybody can buy Google at 500.
As for me taking anything out of context - huh? The writer YOU linked provided the context - that Crean had inherited a mess and had achieved limited success. I never argued the "context" (the mess) but disagreed that he had achieved some level of success. I stand by that opinion and it is in no way out of context.
Finally, I know you fancy yourself as the board's investigative reporter (and you're pretty good at it) but I am not and have never been a stockbroker. I'm also willing to bet that despite the way you denigrate my English knowledge and comprehension that my background and ability in both is at least equal to yours.
-
What does the H. stand for. Can't we all just get along and be friends?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/30/why-do-folks-say-jesus-h-christ
-
Again, you seem to not understand the realm of context. You directed us to the above thread and Lenny's wrote the following: 16-46 overall, 5-31 in conference, 0-2 in big 10 post season play. That's no success any way you slice it. They did lead the nation in % of victories that resulted in storming the court, though most would consider that another negative.
This was in response to the a poster who wrote about TC's IU team: And the team has experienced limited success during Crean's tenure so far. Now as far as contexgt from your perspective - I'm sure you would try to argue what TC walked into at Indiana..thus justifying the horrendous start thus far. I get that..but Lenny's was simply commenting on the person who wrote "limited success thus far," and truthfully..in sports..success is measured in wins and losses...period. The context you speak of..really is primarily just excuse making to try to justify the poor performance, thus far of TC at IU.
You obviously didn't use context in analyzing their record, which was the entire point. In isolation, I'd agree. Considering what they had to deal with, to say no success at all is wrong. Just as too many posters here fall in love to early with some and level nothing but hatred toward others....all without context. Again, the irony.
Lenny...my apologies...I had my pal Robert (Canadian Dimes) on the mind when I said stockbroker. And sorry, I'll disagree with you. No context at all was given by you in your comments, in my opinion. But as I stated, that was only the most recent example and we can play this game continually if you wish. Just to be clear, there are plenty of morons on this board that would look at a coach's record like McGuire had in the first two years and would state he wasn't successful. And you know it. That doesn't make them right, in fact it makes them incredibly wrong...which is why they are morons.
-
I can't believe BJ Young (which is the original topic after all) will miss out on all this fun.