MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: SPL on January 28, 2007, 10:50:54 PM

Title: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: SPL on January 28, 2007, 10:50:54 PM
For those who saw the game, was McNeal's buzzer beater a clean bucket? I saw the highlights on U-tube, and although it looked to me like McNeal scored cleanly, the video was a bit grainy so I wasn't positive. Didn't seem like USF protested, though.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: spiral97 on January 28, 2007, 11:12:07 PM
moved from superbar to here where it is definitely on topic.

not sure what you mean by a "clean bucket"?  Are you asking if he got the shot off in time or if it actually went in at all or if it was tipped in after the buzzer or.........?

edit - duh... just read the topic title LOL - my response is that it could probably have been called a charge if the refs wanted to call a tight game but even when they are calling the game tight they USUALLY do not make such calls at the last second unless it is blatant (which this definitely wasn't).  good non-call, and yes, I am partly just saying that because it results in our favor LOL
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: spiral97 on January 28, 2007, 11:23:22 PM
sorry for the double.. just as I posted the previous response, I looked up and saw sportscenter was showing the mu/usf game highlights (!!!!).  showed a USF alley oop and then a play with DJ driving under the basket to give a backwards heave of the ball into the hoop.. then they finished it with the mcneal steal, drive, and shot.  MUCH clearer on my new 50" HD plasma TV than on the web feed  ;D  so I reversed it through my tivo and replayed it several times in slow motion.. still saying good non-call.. if I HAD to make a call I'd say blocking.. the defender still had his foot moving to his plant spot a split second before mcneal started his pullup and when they made contact the defender's knees were still significantly bent although were definitely in the process of straightening out - verdict, the defender hadn't quite established his position and was still in the process of moving.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: spiral97 on January 28, 2007, 11:28:04 PM
going after the vaunted triple post  :P

rewatching the sportscenter recap again in slow motion... this time in regards to whether he should have passed to DJ.. I believe his best bet was to keep the ball and shoot it himself like he did... another defender (#21) was running down the court about a foot behind the path he would have had to pass the ball through - very favorable for that defender to get a deflection on it and screw up the play.  Plus, a split second later that defender was between DJ and the hoop.

McNeal made the right call all the way around from the time he told DJ in the huddle to press hard.  He is definitely a player who wants the rock when the game is on the line as well... sign of a great team leader.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 28, 2007, 11:29:38 PM
Hmm, I just saw the highlight on sportscenter (and watched it several times too), and was pretty convinced it may have been a charge, but didn't get called because the refs:
a) swallowed their whistles - not entirely out of the question late in games
and
b) weren't in a position to make the charge call since McNeal was flying down the court

I'm recording college game night now.  I'll see if I can post the highlight later (if they play it again).
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 28, 2007, 11:30:48 PM
Agreed that he made the right call in not passing.  Worst case they call the charge and the game goes to OT.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 29, 2007, 01:04:40 AM
Video recap here... (http://www.muscoop.com/uploads/MU_at_USF_recap.wmv)

Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: CTWarrior on January 29, 2007, 07:25:41 AM
Saw the replay on College Gamenight.  McNeal kinda veered off to the side and did not plow into the defender.  They never call that a charge unless Coach K is involved.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: Final Four or Bust on January 29, 2007, 07:56:28 AM
It was very close, and that was my first reaction watching it.  It didn't help matters that McNeal HAD been called for a couple of charges already in the game.  To me it was a toss-up, and I was actually quite surprised that the USF players and coaches didn't argue about it, because I know I was certainly looking for the ref.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: MUMac on January 29, 2007, 08:43:34 AM
What confused me is why the defender went for the charge rather than attack the ball and go for the block.  Worst case, he fouls McNeal and puts him on the line.  Unless, though, he would have made significant contact or collapsed his arms over McNeal, it is unlikely a foul is called (Higgins and Burr sat this one out).
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: MilTown on January 29, 2007, 08:57:28 AM
That was a great no call. I think in a normal game situation, that gets called a charge everytime. The only thing I couldn't see from the video is where the defender was in relation to the rim. It looked like he may have been inside the circle. I don't think college has the same rule as the NBA, but I think college refs typically won't call the charge if a defender is under or near the rim.

Any ref that has worked a MU game this year, knows that McNeal is prone to the offensive foul and will look for it during the game. I am so happy Burr wasn't calling this game. We would have been in OT for sure.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: Utile et Dulce on January 29, 2007, 09:08:53 AM
I over analyzed it too. Yay for Tivo.

The defender was not set before McNeal left his feet, and you have to give the shooter a place to land. Not to mention, the defender wasn't even close to being straight up and down.

I wouldn't even call it a "no call" since that sounds like a call should have been made. It was simply a great play by McNeal...
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: NavinRJohnson on January 29, 2007, 09:23:28 AM
It wasn't called, so no he didn't.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: Tigidal on January 29, 2007, 09:27:09 AM
Checkout the final play below...

(http://pages.prodigy.net/wardweaver/arabians/images/mcneal(lowres).gif)
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: DoubleMU0609 on January 29, 2007, 09:30:38 AM
Tigidal: is there any way to get that clip in a file that I could download and watch it a little slower? thanks!

(is that the SC clip?)
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: MUfan12 on January 29, 2007, 09:35:50 AM
Great no-call... defender was leaning forward and was very deep. Not a lot of contact either. End of game or not, I probably would have done the same thing as the refs.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 29, 2007, 09:36:28 AM
The clip can be downloaded from the link in my earlier post...

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=1470.msg10467#msg10467 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=1470.msg10467#msg10467)
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: Tigidal on January 29, 2007, 09:48:55 AM
Tigidal: is there any way to get that clip in a file that I could download and watch it a little slower? thanks!

(is that the SC clip?)

Best way to watch it slower/exact frame by frame is .wmv file rocky_warrior posted.
Title: Re: Did McNeal charge?
Post by: WashDCWarrior on January 29, 2007, 12:37:41 PM
Agreed that he made the right call in not passing.  Worst case they call the charge and the game goes to OT.

The pass looked like the easier play, but in McNeal's post game interview, he said he was worried about the turnover so he kept it himself.  I'd always rather have a player making a play he's confident in versus the "right" play.  Nicely done McNeal.