MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Flyer Foe on March 24, 2009, 10:47:25 AM
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On another message board, there is a lot of discontent by fans of the midwestern Atlantic 10 schools about a decision (announced this morning) to hold the Atlantic 10 Tournament in Boardwalk Hall (built in 1926) for the next 3 years (it has been there for the past 3 years, and averaged less than 5,000 fans per game). For historic reasons, the Philadelphia schools basically dictate Atlantic 10 policy (in their best interests), and many of the fans from the midwestern schools (that generate the bulk of the revenue for the A10) are fed up with the East-coast boys calling the shots, grabbing the revenue, and disregarding the interests of their midwestern members.
What would your reaction be to a proposal to join a new 10-member midwestern basketball conference comprized of the following schools ?
Villanova (28-7)
Marquette (25-10)
Notre Dame (20-14) [Irish get to keep their Independent football schedule]
DePaul (9-24) [down but not necessarily out]
Xavier (27-7) [NCAA Tournament Sweet 16; AP # 20]
Dayton (27-8) [beat # 6 seed West Virginia]
Duquesne (21-13) [Pittsburgh; A10 Tournament Finalist]
St. Louis (18-14) [New $ 81,000,000 basketball Arena]
Butler (26-6) [Indianapolis; AP # 22]
Cleveland State (25-11) [beat # 4 seed Wake Forest]
In addition to attracting a huge television audience, the New Conference would save the schools a lot of money for travel and give the fans an opportunity to attend “away” games.
It would be interesting to read your thoughts on the subject.
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Why leave the most dominant and best conference in college basketball (5 teams in sweet 16, first in history) to form a new Horizon Conference. No way.
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Pass.
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Yeah, no. Never.
If the football schools split from the BE, I can see this happening-
MU
Gtown
Nova
ND
DePaul
St John's
Providence
Hall
Xavier
Dayton
That I could live with.
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Not by choice.
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Right now MU is in the best conference for our program financially. We are getting more national media than ever because of our TV contracts that we only have because of the BEast.
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No. No no no. No.
If we're forced out of the BE for whatever reason, that conference wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But for MU to leave voluntarily would be idiotic.
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Flyer:
I'm guessing you posted something similar on the ND and 'nova boards. Are you getting anything postive from them? I'll bet not.
Seriously, their has been talk of the football schools of the BE splitting. If that happened then the "catholic 8" of BE along with Xavier, Dayton St. Louis and Butler would be acceptable.
But to repeat, it would not make sense to do it voluntarily. A new conference would have no TV contract like the BE has. No TV no exposure. No exposure, no recruits. No recruits, Horizon League v2.0
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Seriously, their has been talk of the football schools of the BE splitting. If that happened then the "catholic 8" of BE along with Xavier, Dayton St. Louis and Butler would be acceptable.
This has been discussed before, and while I think Butler has a fine program and would be happy to share a conference with them, not sure how they would feel being in a conference with 11 other Catholic schools. They'd be even more out of place than Northwestern is in the Big Televen...
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This has been discussed before, and while I think Butler has a fine program and would be happy to share a conference with them, not sure how they would feel being in a conference with 11 other Catholic schools. They'd be even more out of place than Northwestern is in the Big Televen...
Actually, it would be a total of 8 Catholic schools from the BE and A10. Cleveland State is not a Catholic school either.
Flyer:
I'm guessing you posted something similar on the ND and 'nova boards.
No, I haven't.
I also have not come here to attempt to persuade anyone into anything.
I was just curious about the opinions of Marquette fans, and you have spoken.
Thank you very much for doing so, and best of luck in the Big East in 2009-10 !
That's all for this season.
Regards,
Flyer Foe
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On another message board, there is a lot of discontent by fans of the midwestern Atlantic 10 schools about a decision (announced this morning) to hold the Atlantic 10 Tournament in Boardwalk Hall (built in 1926) for the next 3 years (it has been there for the past 3 years, and averaged less than 5,000 fans per game). For historic reasons, the Philadelphia schools basically dictate Atlantic 10 policy (in their best interests), and many of the fans from the midwestern schools (that generate the bulk of the revenue for the A10) are fed up with the East-coast boys calling the shots, grabbing the revenue, and disregarding the interests of their midwestern members.
What would your reaction be to a proposal to join a new 10-member midwestern basketball conference comprized of the following schools ?
Villanova (28-7)
Marquette (25-10)
Notre Dame (20-14) [Irish get to keep their Independent football schedule]
DePaul (9-24) [down but not necessarily out]
Xavier (27-7) [NCAA Tournament Sweet 16; AP # 20]
Dayton (27-8) [beat # 6 seed West Virginia]
Duquesne (21-13) [Pittsburgh; A10 Tournament Finalist]
St. Louis (18-14) [New $ 81,000,000 basketball Arena]
Butler (26-6) [Indianapolis; AP # 22]
Cleveland State (25-11) [beat # 4 seed Wake Forest]
In addition to attracting a huge television audience, the New Conference would save the schools a lot of money for travel and give the fans an opportunity to attend “away” games.
It would be interesting to read your thoughts on the subject.
No, no, no, no, and no.
We're trading the NYC and DC media markets for Indianapolis and Cleveland. SLU's invested in the arena, yes, but even with Majerus, they're still a long way off from being a perennial NIT team even. Dusquene hasn't made an NCAA in 40 years. Even Dayton, perennial A-10 power they are, just won their first tourney game in 2 decades this yar.
The Big East is a perfect fit for MU in every respect. Sure, we may be the western-most team in the league geographically, but it aligns perfectly where our alumni bases are the strongest (the upper Midwest and the Northeast). Every aspect of MU is up because of our Big East exposure; fundrasing, alumni invlovement, student applications, media coverage, etc. We're aligned with our natural (historic) rivals in DePaul and ND, and have burgeoning rivalries with Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Georgetown. Lots of MU fans travel out east for games, like the 3000-4000 or so that went out for Georgetown this year, and plenty of fans from other schools (Syracuse, Louisville) come to MKE for games.
I fear the day we may have to consider an option like this. But considering how good the Big East has it going now (monster TV ratings, 5 Sweet 16 teams, etc), I think that day is a long ways away.
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yah right leave the best basketball conference in the country to join a mid major conference...sounds good....pause.....NOT!!!! ::)
I realize Dayton has a nice littel team down there and you make a tourney every once in a while, and even beat us this year but give me a break. Mu Nova, ND and even Depaul have nothing to gain and quite honestly a ton to lose by doing that, it completely devalues our program, we made that mistake once already it was called the MCC back in the late 80's
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Terrible idea.
Anyone who wants to willingly trade games with Louisville, UConn, and Syracuse for games with Dayton, Duquesne, and SLU needs their head examined.
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Interesting ,maybe there is more to this beyond rumor. It may be in the works behind the scenes . Maybe thats why we had to settle for Buzz as our coach and a more elite coach will not consider us .
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No way. Buzz has done a great job of assembling a staff that can recruit nationally. Al brought MU to prominence by grabbing East Coast players, which we finally have a chance to do again through the Big East network. We will always have a good shot at Chicago and Wisconsin kids, but being part of the Big East gives us a shot at kids from everywhere who want to play in the best conference in the US.
As for saving travel expenses, we get a huge check every time anyone in the Big East gets invited to the NCAA and another one every time they win a game. Each of these counts as 1 "unit" which is I am told is worth $175,000. With 7 teams invited, 6 making 2nd round, and 5 making Sweet 16, we are up to 18 units - so I don't think the travel expense is too big a deal. I know local fans would like to have easier travel to away games, but those of us out here in the middle of nowhere like the chance to catch them once a year (or more, if you are crazy and travel everywhere like me).
I want us to be in the Big East forever.
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Interesting ,maybe there is more to this beyond rumor. It may be in the works behind the scenes . Maybe thats why we had to settle for Buzz as our coach and a more elite coach will not consider us .
?-(
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?-(
I hate +1. But +1. Alien is clearly coming from another world on this one.
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we get a huge check every time anyone in the Big East gets invited to the NCAA and another one every time they win a game. Each of these counts as 1 "unit" which is I am told is worth $175,000. With 7 teams invited, 6 making 2nd round, and 5 making Sweet 16, we are up to 18 units
I didn't know that... so we're at $3.15 million and counting as some of these teams will advance to the Elite 8 and beyond. This is like one of those earn money while never leaving your house deals for ND, Gtown, St. John's, Seton Hall etc. Do we get anything for BE teams playing in the NIT?
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I hate +1. But +1. Alien is clearly coming from another world on this one.
Ok ,my thought may be a bit "out there" . However, there is still a remote possibility that this may be true
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Interesting ,maybe there is more to this beyond rumor. It may be in the works behind the scenes . Maybe thats why we had to settle for Buzz as our coach and a more elite coach will not consider us .
Huh? ?-( So we had to "settle" for a non-elite coach (to borrow your term from your other posts) because a conference realignment might be in the works? And you seem to be implying that all the elite coaches somehow knew about this realignment and that's why they didn't consider us? ::)
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Ok ,my thought may be a bit "out there" . However, there is still a remote possibility that this may be true
There's also a remote possibility that you were actually born on another planet. Doesn't make it so, although it seems more and more plausible each time you make a post...
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there is still a remote possibility that this may be true
Sure there is. Remote. Like, another galaxy remote. :D
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There's also a remote possibility that you were actually born on another planet. Doesn't make it so, although it seems more and more plausible each time you make a post...
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Thank you ,I appreciate that .There are lots of stuff behind the scenes that we are not privy to. I SAID ,that it was a remote possibility .I just may think differently than you do . All you have to do is agree or disagree.
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How ironic. Dayton fans are upset about where their conference tournament is being held.
The only thing I remember about when MU was in the MCC (are those the correct letters?) was the fact that it seemed every fricken year the conference tournament was held in Dayton. I am sure a little research could prove me wrong but it just seemed like we had to play Dayton at Dayton in the conference tournament.
I know, I need to see somebody about these grudges I hold.
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All you have to do is agree or disagree.
Yeah but what fun would that be?
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The news of the last Big East split came out during a coaching search. I believe it was Skip Prosser interviewing at Pitt after Howland left. After he came back, someone in the Wake administration told Prosser to not even consider it because the Big East was going be blown apart soon, and wouldn't even exist in 2 years. That got picked up by a reporter in New York, and things moved quickly after that.
Huh? ?-( So we had to "settle" for a non-elite coach (to borrow your term from your other posts) because a conference realignment might be in the works? And you seem to be implying that all the elite coaches somehow knew about this realignment and that's why they didn't consider us? ::)
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Ok ,my thought may be a bit "out there" . However, there is still a remote possibility that this may be true
Alien, since you seem to love conspiracy theories, what are your thoughts on the JFK assassination? The Moon landing? The New World Order?
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Dayton hosted the A10 Tournament all the time until it was moved to Atlantic City. Now they complain about that as well. They actually think they are the greatest fans - getting approx 12K attendance for their games. Losing to UD this year in Chicago, where their fans outnumbered MU's, was the one major disppointment of the year. Not that they didn't have a good team...
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If Marquette were to join a new conference, I'd prefer to align more with most of the non-football Big East teams and a smaller number from the Midwest. I would also go for the biggest media markets as possible. Here's how I would draft it (with city and media market #):
DePaul (Chicago #3)
Detroit Mercy (Detroit #10)
Georgetown (Washington, DC #7)
Marquette (Milwaukee #29)
Notre Dame (South Bend #108)
Providence (Providence #43)
Seton Hall (West Orange/New York #1)
St. John's (New York #1)
Villanova (Philadelphia #5)
Xavier (Cincinnati #38)
A 10 member league would allow true round robin play. You can keep the tournament in New York City, or alternate between Chicago and New York, or even rotate among all the cities.
If they wanted to go to 12 teams, I would consider St. Louis (St. Louis #20) and Duquesne (Pittsburgh #26), and possibly Dayton (Dayton #46).
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Dayton hosted the A10 Tournament all the time until it was moved to Atlantic City.
Actually, Dayton has hosted the Atlantic Tournament one time during the 15 years we have been in the A10.
That was in March 2003 and the Flyers won it. But that season, The Flyers had an RPI Ranking of # 16 (best in the Atlantic 10), and would likely have been favored to win it regardless of where it was played.
Most of the Atlantic 10 Tournaments have been held at the Paelestra in Philadelphia, but some of the games attracted only 1500 people - less than 10 % of the Paelestra's capacity - so that is why it was moved to Dayton for one year and it sold out (13,500).
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Number of times a year MU was on national TV before BIG EAST......no more than 2...cincy and L'ville
Number of times MU is on national TV after joining BIG EAST......way more than 2.
If you want a fanbase or interest base larger than your alumni base, then you need to be on national TV. The BE is the best way for MU to be on national TV.
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This is a terrible idea. No no no no and .....no. we are insane to leave the BEast.
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Not voluntarily. If the league splits over football, all bets are off.
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Alien, since you seem to love conspiracy theories, what are your thoughts on the JFK assassination? The Moon landing? The New World Order?
[/quote You forgot 911,the bankster bailout,the MLK assassination etc. You do know that the New World Order has been mentioned in numerous articles in Newsweek, Time, the NY Times, Beck and Dobbs on tv
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The news of the last Big East split came out during a coaching search. I believe it was Skip Prosser interviewing at Pitt after Howland left. After he came back, someone in the Wake administration told Prosser to not even consider it because the Big East was going be blown apart soon, and wouldn't even exist in 2 years. That got picked up by a reporter in New York, and things moved quickly after that.
you mean to tell me that a wake official in fear of losing their coach told skip prosser that the Big East would be gone in two years. Oh My!! he must of had some real insight and how great of a guy to let him know that so he would not make such a terrible move. those administartors down at Wake really look out for people. ::)
and since then hindsight has shown how right that guy was.
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A new conference would be a huge step backwards for Marquette. I really like where we are. The exposure and level of competition in the BEast has done wonders for the program and its fans. I hope it doesn't come to this anytime soon.
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Only way we live the BE is if we are thrown out. Too much money generated and equal exposure for incoming students. Hand's down the cheapest advertising the school can do to recruit students.
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"Actually, Dayton has hosted the Atlantic Tournament one time during the 15 years we have been in the A10."
No - the A10 Tournament was at UD twice (consecutive years 2003 and 2004).
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Just relaying what was in the Kevin McNamara book about the Big East. (Good read, by the way.) Very interesting that the coaches knew nothing about it, and no public rumors were swirling 80 days before Virginia Tech became the first to bolt for the ACC, followed a few days later by Miami. But obviously it had been discussed in back rooms somewhere, and things were already in motion long before anything was leaked as a result of the Pittsburgh men's basketball coach search.
Not at all saying that's happening now. Just that things being discussed behind closed doors are easier to keep under wraps than we sometimes think.
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He was absolutely correct about what was happening. He was wrong about what would eventually become of the Big East. Although if not for Syracuse and Pitt who fought hard on behalf of the basketball only schools to keep them included in any plans, he maybe would have been right about that too.
you mean to tell me that a wake official in fear of losing their coach told skip prosser that the Big East would be gone in two years. Oh My!! he must of had some real insight and how great of a guy to let him know that so he would not make such a terrible move. those administartors down at Wake really look out for people. ::)
and since then hindsight has shown how right that guy was.
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playing in the New York market and guaranteed games at the Garden every year is what Marquette has to offer over the Big Ten and Big 12 when recruiting. Getting into those east coast markets consistently allows scouts to have an easy chance to swing by. Would not want to see that go away.
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Wasn't there some sort of bad blood between MU and Dayton that caused us to cancel the home/home contract we had. I would assume that would preclude us from wanting to be in the same conference as them. Or was that something that left town with the coach that did the same??
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Why would we give up the best thing to happen to our institution since AL came?
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Ok ,my thought may be a bit "out there" . However, there is still a remote possibility that this may be true
There's also a remote possibility that I will crap pure ice cream one day after I teach a troupe of monkeys to perform Othello. ::)
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we would probably never leave, but we may eventually be asked to leave.
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we would probably never leave, but we may eventually be asked to leave.
Right. The only way we leave is if we're forced out. Or maybe more likely, we remain behind with the other basketball schools, and are left looking for other teams such as Dayton to fill out the new, basketball only Big East.
As long as the football schools keep the BCS status, and the basketball only schools are good (Nova, GTown, Marq, PC at this point), everybody is happy. If either of those changes, things could happen.
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If Marquette were to join a new conference, I'd prefer to align more with most of the non-football Big East teams and a smaller number from the Midwest. I would also go for the biggest media markets as possible. Here's how I would draft it (with city and media market #):
DePaul (Chicago #3)
Detroit Mercy (Detroit #10)
Georgetown (Washington, DC #7)
Marquette (Milwaukee #29)
Notre Dame (South Bend #108)
Providence (Providence #43)
Seton Hall (West Orange/New York #1)
St. John's (New York #1)
Villanova (Philadelphia #5)
Xavier (Cincinnati #38)
A 10 member league would allow true round robin play. You can keep the tournament in New York City, or alternate between Chicago and New York, or even rotate among all the cities.
If they wanted to go to 12 teams, I would consider St. Louis (St. Louis #20) and Duquesne (Pittsburgh #26), and possibly Dayton (Dayton #46).
Not going to happen. The majority of the remaining charter schools in the Big East are non-football schools. So they would keep the the Big East name and conference status. The football schools would have to form a new conference threatening their BCS status. But if a conference were to form like the one you quoted above, we could call it the American Catholic Conference (ACC).
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we would probably never leave, but we may eventually be asked to leave.
Anyone know what that process would be like? Has Marquette signed some kind of a contract to be a member of the BE for so long, and then it will be up for review?
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Yeah, no. Never.
If the football schools split from the BE, I can see this happening-
MU
Gtown
Nova
ND
DePaul
St John's
Providence
Hall
Xavier
Dayton
That I could live with.
When people mention a football split and put Gtown and Nova in the 'non-football' side I always want to say yeah but... both of those schools have FCS football teams that COULD be brought up to FBS level. Nova only lost two games last year and one of those was to West Virgina. I don't know if either team has capital or land to make the jump but UConn was able to do it and they are now a top 25 team. so to stay with the Big East they may see it as tempting to stay with the other schools.
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Alien, since you seem to love conspiracy theories, what are your thoughts on the JFK assassination? The Moon landing? The New World Order?
John McAdams was the 2nd shooter on the grass knol. He is a CIA plant at Marquette University trying to brainwash students into believing that Oswald was a a single shooter.
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John McAdams was the 2nd shooter on the grass knol. He is a CIA plant at Maruette University trying to brainwash students into believing that Oswald was a a single shooter.
I'm watching you Ari.