MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Badgerhater on February 04, 2009, 04:03:25 PM
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Per Rosiak
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/39103417.html
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OPPS......2009-2010
the post lacks lots of details.
Was confusing at first....but he is the second recruit of that class....joining Bowen.
Found this: http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=987069
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More info per Mark Miller...
http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=987069 (http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/blog/message.aspx?f=123&id=987069)
By Mark Miller
Wishoops.net Editor
After a week of putting out our updated Player Rankings, time to get caught up on some other news in the world of college and high school basketball:
Former Milwaukee standouts excel at Hill Junior College
Three former Milwaukee prep stars are playing key roles for the Hill Junior College men’s basketball team.
Freshman Monterale Clark, who played for both Rufus King and Pius XI, leads the Rebels in scoring at 17.8 points per game. The 6-foot-10, 208-pound forward is also averaging 11.9 rebounds and 2.7 blocked shots per game while helping Hill Junior College to an 11-7 record.
According to Hill Junior College coach Swede Trenkle, Auburn, Baylor and Oklahoma State have extended scholarship offers to Clark with Clemson, Marquette, Miami and Nevada also showing strong interest in the rapidly improved big man.
“Monterale came in here very skilled and I think the one thing he has done is he has become more physical and has matured as a basketball player,” Trenkle said. “He is playing every possession and wants to get better.”
Trenkle said Clark is maintaining a 2.9 grade-point average and will have another year of attending Hill Junior College, which is located in Hillsboro, Texas, before playing at the NCAA Division I level.
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Something is wrong - he must be the second recruit for 2010-2011. 2009-2010 already includes williams, maymon, cadougan, roseboro (am i missing someone?)
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Appears that Buzz is keeping up with his goal of recruiting a tall guy every year.
Someday MU might have of all things....tall guy options off the bench!!!!!!
Rosiak must be referring to the 2009-2010 recruiting season My post title referred to the 2010-11 playing season.
Gets confusing doesn't it!
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Rosiak is stating it "weirdly", Clark is a 2010 recruit who will be playing in the 2010-2011 season.
Sounds like he's a pure Juco though, so he'll have 2 years of eligibility?
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Yep. 2 year kid. Hopefully he continues to develop in JUCO and put on a few pounds before hitting MU.
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Quick Google found me this:
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Team/TeamPage.aspx?association=16&sg=MBB&sea=JTXMBB_2008&team=8166
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One schollie left for that class.
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Not sure how I feel about the signing. I'd rather not load up on Juco guys, but that's just me.
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Nice link Crew - when you go to his personal page, and then Rankings, you get...
Ranks Number 1 in Division I in Defensive Rebounds per Game (7.043)
Ranks Number 2 in Division I in Total Rebounds per Game (10.478)
Ranks Number 4 in Division I in Blocks per Game (2.304)
Ranks Number 7 in Division I in Offensive Rebounds per Game (3.435)
Ranks Number 10 in Division I in Points per Game (16.913)
Ranks Number 13 in Division I in Field Goal Pct (0.578)
Of course, Div 1 JUCO, but great stats! Averages a double-double (16 & 10).
(not sure if the link will work)
http://www.dakstats.com/WebSync/Pages/Team/IndividualStats.aspx?association=16&sg=MBB&sea=JTXMBB_2008&team=8166&plr=47074&tab=2
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Can't say I'm surprised, I've seen him at the BC a couple times this year.
He's an athletic freak with good if not great skills. But academic and transfer issues kept him from playing a lot in HS. If his head is on straight he can be very good.
FWIW, Crean recruited Clark when he was still in HS, and followed him to the JUCO when it became obvious that he had no shot at qualifying.
Also, it looks like this happened yesterday and just didn't get announced by Rosiak until today.
http://texasbasketballinc.blogspot.com/2009/02/marquette-recruiting-scoop.html
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This seems a little suprising. Granted the kid may be great for all I know and he is 6'10" but Bowen is not that high level of a recruit as I understand it and Clark seems like a nice player but not as high end of a prospect as it seems MU should be in the running for. With only one more slot in that class I'm not sure this is the best choice. I am sure I am missing something but it seems off to me...
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Any time I read "Best" and "Big Man" in the same sentence, even if it is on the Texas Basketball Inc. blog, I get excited.
Sounds like a solid get.
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How in the freaking hell could we sign this kid...we will have Roseboro as a Sophomore and McMorrow and Otule as Juniors as well that year. Does this guy not realize that with those three and our other size up front in Maymon, Willimas, Fulce, etc minutes are no there? OH My good ness Jmayer...please help anyone comprehend this!!!
Sarcasm off!!
Kid looks like a great recruit!!! Great size looks to be scoring, rebounding and swatting!! Juco numers can be deceiving but when his coach says he is aggressive, etc. that goes along way in my book. 1.5 years to bulk up. Buzz is rolling baby. Glad buzz and our recruits are not as worried about minutes as some of our ignorant fans.
I think our roster is really stacking up to be big time strong in 2010-2011, next year we might have growing pains but the next year we will be loaded!!
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From BMA's link
Just got off the phone with my buddy, Hill College (TX) Head Coach Swede Trenkle. The best unsigned Junior College Big Man in the country is now off the board. Coach trenkle informed me that 6'10" Monterale Clark who is from Milwaukee, WI has committed to one of the hardest working coaches in the country.
That's right, Buzz Williams is at it again. Whether he's at Colorado State, Texas A&M, New Orleans, or now at Marquette the tireless Williams has feathered his cap again. The Big East got bigger with the addition of Clark to the Marquette Golden Eagles.
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This seems a little suprising. Granted the kid may be great for all I know and he is 6'10" but Bowen is not that high level of a recruit as I understand it and Clark seems like a nice player but not as high end of a prospect as it seems MU should be in the running for. With only one more slot in that class I'm not sure this is the best choice. I am sure I am missing something but it seems off to me...
Bowen is a player...dont let rankings fool you not too many sophomores in high school that didnt play summer ball are highly rated. Just wait and that will take care of itself over the summer. he is a high major player. Lok for us to sign a 1 or another 2 with the last schollie,, although that is affected by if or whom we sign in the spring.
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If he is a freshman, then he graduated high school in 2008. Even if he went the prep school route in 2007, I could not find him on any recruiting site for those two years. Anyone remember him from Milwaukee high school All City team or anything?
With MU's current success, ranking, exposure, etc. and only one scholarship left in 2010, you would think Buzz would be after a higher ranked high school, not JUCO recruit. Who knows, but the kid needs to put on weight, he is in Bo Ellis land right now at 208lbs.
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Buzz signed a great class for 2009 and has started off with two guys pretty far off the radar for 2010 (although I think Bowen is pretty underrated).
Why can't Buzz land all 4 or 5 star guys like the rest of the top Big East teams do?
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yeah you are probably right Bwight Buycks sucks too. just becuase a guy had transfer and eligibilty issues it must mean he sucks!
WoW!! yeah larry Johnson sucked too.
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Who knows, but the kid needs to put on weight, he is in Bo Ellis land right now at 208lbs.
Refresh my memory. How did things turn out with this Bo Ellis person of whom you speak? ;)
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If he is a freshman, then he graduated high school in 2008. Even if he went the prep school route in 2007, I could not find him on any recruiting site for those two years. Anyone remember him from Milwaukee high school All City team or anything?
I was going to post this originally, but forgot and now you've given me a reason. The reason you won't find anything for Monterale Clark is because people had his name wrong for most of his high school career. For some reason everybody thought his name was Montrell Clark, and in some cases Montrelle Clark or Montrell Clarke or even Montrel Clark. So there is info available you just have to know what to look for.
For example, here's his Rivals bio, under Montrell Clark:
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=56182
Here's his Scout bio under Montrel Clark:
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=1719241
In regards to your other question, he never made any of the all city teams because he had to sit out as a transfer(King to Pius) and then wasn't academically eligible to play much of the time. Most his recruiting interest came from AAU ball with Wisconsin DTA.
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Refresh my memory. How did things turn out with this Bo Ellis person of whom you speak? ;)
Judging by this picture, apparently the fans hated him, and he had to climb up through the hoop to escape the angry mob.
(http://www.muscoop.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php/men_s_basketball/bo_ellis1.jpg?w=&h=&cache=cache)
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Jeez, I was just using Bo's slight build as an example. Should have figured some fool would bring that up. BTW, Bo was a top ten recruit and Parade All American, I'm not that stupid. Good grief.
Good luck to Clark in the weight room.
Thanks BMA for the high school info. Figured there was a good reason.
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yeah you are probably right Bwight Buycks sucks too. just becuase a guy had transfer and eligibilty issues it must mean he sucks!
WoW!! yeah larry Johnson sucked too.
Buycks is a top-rated JC guy and was recruited pretty heavily coming out of high school. This guy doesn't even show up on rivals or scout (edited: Makes sense given BMA's comments but he still doesn't appear to be real highly rated).
Please tell me why I should expect this guy to be any better than Hazel, Christopherson, Blackledge, Cubillan, Lott, Burke, Kinsella or any of the other guys MU signed over the past few years that weren't highly rated.
Now, I think he looks like an interesting specimen and it's always good to get tall projects rather than short projects but you would be led to believe by some on this board that Buzz was above taking guys like this because all he would get every year would be 4-star, top 100 type of guys.
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Another link for everyone to think about. Top 600 players in the class of 2008 according to HoopScoop published prior to their junior season:
http://www.hoopscooponline.com/members/classof2008-topjuniors-fall2006.asp
Look at #43. That's the kind of talent this kid has. If he'd stayed on top of his academics there's no telling how high he'd have gone. But since he didn't, most services stopped paying any attention to him.
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No one knows how any of the height we got coming in (or currently have) is going to pan out. Otule has shown nothing, and McMorrow may be an oversized version of Chris Grimm for all we know. So saying there will be not enough minutes to go around is just foolish.
I'm all for getting a guy who can play at the college level (JUCO at least) and has played there with pretty good stats.
Kind of funny, people rip Crean for never recruiting enough big guys... we had the same crap for so many years- maybe 2 guys over 6'10 on the roster to play our center. Now here we are with possibly 4 big guys and people are saying Buzz is recruiting TOO MANY big guys. Too funny.
I will say this- we've got a very very solid recruiting class next year, so you can't expect Buzz to pull off another top 10 class for '10-11. No one will get playing time from the guard position. Might as well beef it up with some height. I love this signing. I think it builds depth at a position fans have starved for over the last 8 years.
(SHOCK!) Oh my, our 6'7 SF will actually be able to play SF!!!! What will we do!?!?!?!!??!?!
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Another link for everyone to think about. Top 600 players in the class of 2008 according to HoopScoop published prior to their junior season:
http://www.hoopscooponline.com/members/classof2008-topjuniors-fall2006.asp
Look at #43. That's the kind of talent this kid has. If he'd stayed on top of his academics there's no telling how high he'd have gone. But since he didn't, most services stopped paying any attention to him.
BMA, how would you compare Riley and Clark?
I should clarify my earlier post. I'll never diss a recruit because I think you have to wait and see with a lot of guys, it just seems like a lot of people were expecting another monster class in 2010. So far it looks like MU has some guys with potential but not the type of highly-rated players some expected.
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I dunno if this makes sense. That'll mean you have 3 junior bigs on the roster for 2010-2011 with McMorrow, Otule, and Clark, which makes little sense for roster balance. Not to mention Roseboro as well as a sophomore (probably as a 4). Hazel will be a senior that year too.
I'm guessing that this means we're off the Dashonte Riley recruiting hunt. I'm also thinking there could be a situation of a redshirt of a transfer of some sort on the horizon too, since I just can't see Buzz knocking his classes, particularly at one position, so out of balance.
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Now with the influx of bigmen, does this mean MU is no longer pursuing the 6 ft 10 center Dashonte Riley and now will look for a SG with the "invisible" 2009 scholly?
GYMBAR, maybe there is hope for Jamil.
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Buycks is a top-rated JC guy and was recruited pretty heavily coming out of high school. This guy doesn't even show up on rivals or scout (edited: Makes sense given BMA's comments but he still doesn't appear to be real highly rated).
Please tell me why I should expect this guy to be any better than Hazel, Christopherson, Blackledge, Cubillan, Lott, Burke, Kinsella or any of the other guys MU signed over the past few years that weren't highly rated.
Now, I think he looks like an interesting specimen and it's always good to get tall projects rather than short projects but you would be led to believe by some on this board that Buzz was above taking guys like this because all he would get every year would be 4-star, top 100 type of guys.
I may be going out on a limb here, but Clark would have been highly rated if it weren't for the academic issues. That and the transfer caused him to play maybe one full seasons worth of games in high school and cut into some of his AAU time. If you aren't out on the circuit, you can't really get evaluated and can't be rated. The kid was getting interest from Kentucky, ISU, MU, and Xavier in high school, and he had other high major offers before this commitment.
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I may be going out on a limb here, but Clark would have been highly rated if it weren't for the academic issues. That and the transfer caused him to play maybe one full seasons worth of games in high school and cut into some of his AAU time. If you aren't out on the circuit, you can't really get evaluated and can't be rated. The kid was getting interest from Kentucky, ISU, MU, and Xavier in high school, and he had other high major offers before this commitment.
So, academics were the more the issue rather than talent? I guess this might not be as much of a flyer as it seemed at first glance but it does worry me some that MU is getting a lot of guys with grade issues but they do have a terrific program to make sure these student-athletes are hitting the books like they need to.
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I dunno if this makes sense. That'll mean you have 3 junior bigs on the roster for 2010-2011 with McMorrow, Otule, and Clark, which makes little sense for roster balance. Not to mention Roseboro as well as a sophomore (probably as a 4). Hazel will be a senior that year too.
I'm guessing that this means we're off the Dashonte Riley recruiting hunt. I'm also thinking there could be a situation of a redshirt of a transfer of some sort on the horizon too, since I just can't see Buzz knocking his classes, particularly at one position, so out of balance.
Can't hurt to have too many big men. I think this frees up Hazel to be a 3/4 type player. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Hazel transfer- he's got to see the writing on the wall with th e freshmen bigs as well as the incoming recruits.
I agree that having 3 jr big men on the roster doesn't make much sense as far as balance goes, which is why I don't think we're off the Riley trail just yet.
Otule and McMorrow may never be legitimate BE starters. We won't know until next season. Can't hurt to load up on a position that's so questionable at this point, even if it does throw 3 big men in the same class. You can solve that by signing Riley, who from what I read can be a legitimate 5 in the BE
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I can confirm that Clark is not good. Not because I read anything on him or heard something from some source, but because I went to high school at Pius and watched him play while I was there. He spent his time getting into trouble off the court and playing second fiddle to Korie Lucious who's now at MSU. He routinely got pushed around in the paint by guys he had six or seven inches on. That being said, you can't teach 6'11", and if he's hit the weight room and gotten his life together a bit since then, who knows what can happen? I'm willing to give him a shot and welcome him to Marquette.
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I dunno if this makes sense. That'll mean you have 3 junior bigs on the roster for 2010-2011 with McMorrow, Otule, and Clark, which makes little sense for roster balance. Not to mention Roseboro as well as a sophomore (probably as a 4). Hazel will be a senior that year too.
For what it's worth, a Texas hoops site I found described Clark as a "face up 4," so I'm not sure Otule or McMorrow are going to be his primary competition for minutes. Sounds like he's more of a Roseboro type then a pure post guy.
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I can confirm that Clark is not good. Not because I read anything on him or heard something from some source, but because I went to high school at Pius and watched him play while I was there. He spent his time getting into trouble off the court and playing second fiddle to Korie Lucious who's now at MSU. He routinely got pushed around in the paint by guys he had six or seven inches on. That being said, you can't teach 6'11", and if he's hit the weight room and gotten his life together a bit since then, who knows what can happen? I'm willing to give him a shot and welcome him to Marquette.
Sounds like sour grapes to me
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So he's 6'10"... do we know his weight. The random comments I saw were that he's light (220 lbs?) and not powerfully built.
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Everyone is so concerned about number of big guys on the roster...
You realize we've got 2 over 6'10 this season, neither play. Burke is an average 4 playing the 5. People think that 4 or even 5 big guys on a roster is way too much...
If you've got 4-5 guys 6'10 or taller it frees up your small forwards to actually play small forward. 4-5 guys to throw in at center/power forward would give MU so much flexibility. If Hazel is as small as you'd go for the 4, then the #1 team in the country right now has 6 guys that can play the 4 and/or 5. That's quite the luxury and I'd be thrilled to see MU with that kind of height
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Why, with so much time for 2010-11 and only 3 scholarships are we recruiting JUCOs still? Just wondering. . .there must be a ton of avaiable great players
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Why, with so much time for 2010-11 and only 3 scholarships are we recruiting JUCOs still? Just wondering. . .there must be a ton of avaiable great players
We have a top 10, some sites a top 5 recruiting class coming in. Those guys are planning on starting from day 1. You really think a 4 or 5 star athlete is going to commit knowing the depth we have and how some positions are locked up for the next 4 years? Doubt it.
Look for 10-11 to be more of a solid, role player recruiting class, with maybe one 4 star. But you can't promise playing time to a 4-5 star athlete when you can't give it to him. That's how you get people to transfer and a bad rep as a recruiter
Take a look at Crean's recruiting class after he got McNeal, Matthews, DJ... really no one besides Lazar. It comes with having a good recruiting class
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Attempting to connect the dots from various sites, Clark...
1) Followed Korie Lucious from King to Pius.
2) Graduated from Pius in 2007.
3) May have been considering prep school at some point, but ended up looking at Kankakee CC (Juco) out of high school.
4) Never enrolled at Kankakee CC, and may have taken the year off.
5) Started at Hill Junior College this year as a freshman.
6) Will join Marquette as a junior for the 2010-2011 school year.
Not the easiest path to follow; I'm sure there are more details out there.
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BMA, how would you compare Riley and Clark?
I should clarify my earlier post. I'll never diss a recruit because I think you have to wait and see with a lot of guys, it just seems like a lot of people were expecting another monster class in 2010. So far it looks like MU has some guys with potential but not the type of highly-rated players some expected.
Size wise they are similar. Riley is skinny, but Clark is really really skinny. They used to say he was 190, and that was a f'n lie.
In terms of type of game, they are different. Clark is really a 4, Riley a 5. Clark is more of a face up man, Riley does his best work in the post. Clark moves well without the ball, he can drive to the paint, he's great at catching the ball full speed on the break and dunking. Decent shooting touch, though maybe not a perimeter player. Then again the stats show that he's shooting 36% from three now. Best asset is freakish athletic ability. Riley is a true 5 with great skills for a true 5. Ok shooting range, but not a guy you would want playing a face up 4 man spot. Good defensively, blocks a lot of shots, but not the same kind of blocks that Clark gets. Riley plays well on guys, Clark plays well when allowed to roam and using his leaping ability. Both are great rebounders, though Clark might be a bit better just because of the leaping ability.
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So, academics were the more the issue rather than talent? I guess this might not be as much of a flyer as it seemed at first glance but it does worry me some that MU is getting a lot of guys with grade issues but they do have a terrific program to make sure these student-athletes are hitting the books like they need to.
It's not so much a question of hitting the books. Part of the reason Clark transferred to Pius is because he has a learning disability and they have a great special ed program. What exactly that is, I don't know.
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Part of the reason Clark transferred to Pius is because he has a learning disability and they have a great special ed program.
So is Clark going to play with a helmet?
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Attempting to connect the dots from various sites, Clark...
1) Followed Korie Lucious from King to Pius.
2) Graduated from Pius in 2007.
3) May have been considering prep school at some point, but ended up looking at Kankakee CC (Juco) out of high school.
4) Never enrolled at Kankakee CC, and may have taken the year off.
5) Started at Hill Junior College this year as a freshman.
6) Will join Marquette as a junior for the 2010-2011 school year.
Not the easiest path to follow; I'm sure there are more details out there.
I think he ended up going to a prep school rather than going to Kankakee in hopes that he could somehow qualify after one year of prep school and then go to college. Not sure if that actually happened.
EDIT: After some quick searches, it looks like he went Ware Prep in Georgia instead of a JUCO. I found this article on him from last spring:
http://www.hoopsreport.com/news/eventreports/milwaukeemadnessshowcase
Montrell Clark '09 Ware Prep Academy, Atlanta (GA) 6'9 PF
AAU: Milwaukee Running Rebels
Clark definitely stands out on the floor with his size and athleticism-- he is a tall, slender play above the rim type player. One spectator referred to him as a "little Ralph Sampson". His long arms make for good shot blocking ability and combined with his willingness to run the floor, good hands and soft touch, he is a scary threat in transition to catch oops and posterize his opponents. Clark also is having difficulty with his grades and at the moment is being looked at by Baylor, UAB, Wyoming, Texas A&M, and Alabama.
He's also listed at Ware Prep on the Milwaukee Runnin Rebels AAU site, and the announcement from Hill JUCO that he had signed an LOI.
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It's not so much a question of hitting the books. Part of the reason Clark transferred to Pius is because he has a learning disability and they have a great special ed program. What exactly that is, I don't know.
Thanks for all the info BMA.
Hopefully he can get the attention he needs at MU and be successful on both the court and in the classroom.
MU will definitely not be undersized for long but I think they will look at a guard with the last schooly or if they grab another 09 recruit.
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Thanks for all the info BMA.
Hopefully he can get the attention he needs at MU and be successful on both the court and in the classroom.
MU will definitely not be undersized for long but I think they will look at a guard with the last schooly or if they grab another 09 recruit.
another pg would be nice
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So is Clark going to play with a helmet?
That's pretty tasteless.
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That's pretty tasteless.
Loosen up.
Didn't realize the hoyte toytes were here tonight. 1) Remove bundle from panties. 2) Try again.
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Size wise they are similar. Riley is skinny, but Clark is really really skinny. They used to say he was 190, and that was a f'n lie.
In terms of type of game, they are different. Clark is really a 4, Riley a 5. Clark is more of a face up man, Riley does his best work in the post. Clark moves well without the ball, he can drive to the paint, he's great at catching the ball full speed on the break and dunking. Decent shooting touch, though maybe not a perimeter player. Then again the stats show that he's shooting 36% from three now. Best asset is freakish athletic ability. Riley is a true 5 with great skills for a true 5. Ok shooting range, but not a guy you would want playing a face up 4 man spot. Good defensively, blocks a lot of shots, but not the same kind of blocks that Clark gets. Riley plays well on guys, Clark plays well when allowed to roam and using his leaping ability. Both are great rebounders, though Clark might be a bit better just because of the leaping ability.
6'10 freakish athlete with great leaping ability?? sign me up
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I think he ended up going to a prep school rather than going to Kankakee in hopes that he could somehow qualify after one year of prep school and then go to college. Not sure if that actually happened.
EDIT: After some quick searches, it looks like he went Ware Prep in Georgia instead of a JUCO. I found this article on him from last spring:
http://www.hoopsreport.com/news/eventreports/milwaukeemadnessshowcase
Montrell Clark '09 Ware Prep Academy, Atlanta (GA) 6'9 PF
AAU: Milwaukee Running Rebels
Clark definitely stands out on the floor with his size and athleticism-- he is a tall, slender play above the rim type player. One spectator referred to him as a "little Ralph Sampson". His long arms make for good shot blocking ability and combined with his willingness to run the floor, good hands and soft touch, he is a scary threat in transition to catch oops and posterize his opponents. Clark also is having difficulty with his grades and at the moment is being looked at by Baylor, UAB, Wyoming, Texas A&M, and Alabama.
He's also listed at Ware Prep on the Milwaukee Runnin Rebels AAU site, and the announcement from Hill JUCO that he had signed an LOI.
His games sounds like it has shades of Latavious Williams in it, although Williams was/is ranked higher at the same age.
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I dunno if this makes sense. That'll mean you have 3 junior bigs on the roster for 2010-2011 with McMorrow, Otule, and Clark, which makes little sense for roster balance.
I like the pickup, but I have to agree with this point. Buzz said he wants a PG and C in every class. Perhaps we should let him know that this only makes sense if you accomplish that in every graduating class.
As it stands now, we need yet another big for when these three are gone. Though if bma is correct about being a tall 4, then maybe it's not as imbalanced as I think.
Come to think of it, I think we've all just gotten really used to being a small team. Novak was (is) 6'10", but we didn't ever call him a C, and hardly ever a PF. Now it's hard for us to imagine having a "tall" guy away from the basket. But, lots of teams do it -successfully.
Ok, I've resolved my internal conflict. you can safely ignore my first 2 paragraphs ;D
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I am still not sure if we have the year right. The Texas article said he is the best unsigned bigman. That indicates to me that he can sign in spring.
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How in the freaking hell could we sign this kid...we will have Roseboro as a Sophomore and McMorrow and Otule as Juniors as well that year. Does this guy not realize that with those three and our other size up front in Maymon, Willimas, Fulce, etc minutes are no there? OH My good ness Jmayer...please help anyone comprehend this!!!
Sarcasm off!!
Kid looks like a great recruit!!! Great size looks to be scoring, rebounding and swatting!! Juco numers can be deceiving but when his coach says he is aggressive, etc. that goes along way in my book. 1.5 years to bulk up. Buzz is rolling baby. Glad buzz and our recruits are not as worried about minutes as some of our ignorant fans.
I think our roster is really stacking up to be big time strong in 2010-2011, next year we might have growing pains but the next year we will be loaded!!
Both he and Roseboro are power forwards. Otule and McMorrow are centers. I was excited about Otule, but Buzz does not have confidence in him. I really beginning to think that Otule will not be here next year.
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I am still not sure if we have the year right. The Texas article said he is the best unsigned bigman. That indicates to me that he can sign in spring.
He'll be in the class with Bowen, guarantee it.
He graduated high school in 2007, graduated prep school in 2008, and now to the JUCO. He was not an academic qualifier out of high school or prep school so he has to spend two years at the JUCO. This is his first year, so he'll be coming with Bowen in Fall 2010.
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Not just academics but other issues as well. He is not very bright and had a history of trouble at Pius. Great defensively and can run like the wind but offense struggles. He needed a lot of growing up to do when he left Pius.
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I was excited about Otule, but Buzz does not have confidence in him. I really beginning to think that Otule will not be here next year.
I was thinking the same thing. Buzz has better informed ideas about what these guys are capable of than we do. Also, one thing to keep in mind is that bigs are very hit or miss and have LOTS of injury problems -- just think of our own history. I don't think too many bigs is an issue.
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Buycks is a top-rated JC guy and was recruited pretty heavily coming out of high school. This guy doesn't even show up on rivals or scout (edited: Makes sense given BMA's comments but he still doesn't appear to be real highly rated).
Please tell me why I should expect this guy to be any better than Hazel, Christopherson, Blackledge, Cubillan, Lott, Burke, Kinsella or any of the other guys MU signed over the past few years that weren't highly rated.
Now, I think he looks like an interesting specimen and it's always good to get tall projects rather than short projects but you would be led to believe by some on this board that Buzz was above taking guys like this because all he would get every year would be 4-star, top 100 type of guys.
not many guys that did not play HS ball were highly recruited. and quite honestly who cares how highly rated he was in HS, he is getting it done in a big big way in JUCO and has 18 months to get even better he is a big time recruit. look at who has offered him already everyone in the country would be on him this time nest year but buzz got him early. for comparison sake Kinsella avergaed 17 and 10 as a second year in his second year after one at Rice in D2 juco in a much much weaker conference...this kid is averaging 17 and 11 in his first year. Lott averaged 16 and 8 in again a much much weaker conference....blackledge averaged 10 and 6 again in amuch much weaker conference... Marcus Jackson is the only Juco that played in a conference as strong and withe same level of talent...in his econd year he averaged 8 points and 9 rebounds.
on top of that those guys all had the benefit of playing in structured HS programs. Clark is simply exploding with his athleticism and is blowing up against pretty darn good competiton.
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Not just academics but other issues as well. He is not very bright and had a history of trouble at Pius. Great defensively and can run like the wind but offense struggles. He needed a lot of growing up to do when he left Pius.
It's a good thing he graduated high school 2 years ago, 3 when he actually gets to play here then isn't it? Are you the same person today as you were 2 years ago? I'm sure you've done a lot of growing up yourself too
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It's a good thing he graduated high school 2 years ago, 3 when he actually gets to play here then isn't it? Are you the same person today as you were 2 years ago? I'm sure you've done a lot of growing up yourself too
i am just going by what i am told. the person i talked to said he had a lot growing up to do. if he has done that - then welcome aboard.
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Loosen up.
Didn't realize the hoyte toytes were here tonight. 1) Remove bundle from panties. 2) Try again.
actually that's very tasteless. Learning disabilities and cognitive disabilities are entirely different matters. A fair amount on this board know individuals who would classify as the latter and to make an ignorant comment by lumping all disabilities together like that is really immature and uncalled for.
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Did anyone see this at the bottom of Mark's post:
"Meanwhile, Menomonee Falls coach Ben Siebert said Iowa, Iowa State, Marquette and Wisconsin are among the schools showing the most interest in prized 6-4 freshman J.P. Tokoto."
Tokoto:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=3460447
---> "His Father is actually Brian Oliver of Georgia Tech fame."
http://www.recruitingplanet.com/forum/wisconsin-basketball-recruiting/24791-12-sf-jean-pierre-tokoto.html
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Does the Clark signing mean we won't get Riley?
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Anyone else find it interesting that Buzz can coach a small guard oriented team well and is now recruiting a large team. If he can change his style and coach this team well too (and we'll have to wait and see), then he might have more ability than we are giving him credit for.
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The more and more I read (and hear) about Riley from people in Michigan says stay away. Yes, he's only an 18 year old kid. But, do we really need a kid that has to be motivated to play hard half the time? If I want that, I'll watch an NBA game.
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I can confirm that Clark is not good. Not because I read anything on him or heard something from some source, but because I went to high school at Pius and watched him play while I was there. He spent his time getting into trouble off the court and playing second fiddle to Korie Lucious who's now at MSU. He routinely got pushed around in the paint by guys he had six or seven inches on. That being said, you can't teach 6'11", and if he's hit the weight room and gotten his life together a bit since then, who knows what can happen? I'm willing to give him a shot and welcome him to Marquette.
According to Rosiak, his JC coach said that he gained 15-20 pounds since he got there, and thinks he needs to put on another 15-20 pounds before getting to MU. It sounds like he is motivated to get into BE shape.
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I dunno if this makes sense. That'll mean you have 3 junior bigs on the roster for 2010-2011 with McMorrow, Otule, and Clark, which makes little sense for roster balance. Not to mention Roseboro as well as a sophomore (probably as a 4). Hazel will be a senior that year too.
I'm guessing that this means we're off the Dashonte Riley recruiting hunt. I'm also thinking there could be a situation of a redshirt of a transfer of some sort on the horizon too, since I just can't see Buzz knocking his classes, particularly at one position, so out of balance.
I think it does balance out the class. Before this, the only two seniors in that class would have been Otule and McMorrow. Adding a third scholarship to that class gives us flexibility in the future.
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I think it does balance out the class. Before this, the only two seniors in that class would have been Otule and McMorrow. Adding a third scholarship to that class gives us flexibility in the future.
It balances it out in terms of scholarships available. Not in terms of position. McMorrow and Otule play the 5, Clark is a 4/5. The only other guy that can play the five after they leave would be Roseborro, and his natural position is the 4.
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It balances it out in terms of scholarships available. Not in terms of position. McMorrow and Otule play the 5, Clark is a 4/5. The only other guy that can play the five after they leave would be Roseborro, and his natural position is the 4.
For now...who knows what the next two years will bring? They still have a scholarship to give for that year.
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Buycks is a top-rated JC guy and was recruited pretty heavily coming out of high school. This guy doesn't even show up on rivals or scout (edited: Makes sense given BMA's comments but he still doesn't appear to be real highly rated).
Please tell me why I should expect this guy to be any better than Hazel, Christopherson, Blackledge, Cubillan, Lott, Burke, Kinsella or any of the other guys MU signed over the past few years that weren't highly rated.
Now, I think he looks like an interesting specimen and it's always good to get tall projects rather than short projects but you would be led to believe by some on this board that Buzz was above taking guys like this because all he would get every year would be 4-star, top 100 type of guys.
Crean recruited guys for his system (a set offense), most were one trick ponies. Now I think the world of Deiner and Novak, but they both were limited physically. Buzz is recruiting ATHLETES to run his system. Buzz has repeatedly said he wants lots of interchangable parts. I would not be surprised if in the future starters play only 25 mins on average per game, as the bench will be long and athletic.
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For now...who knows what the next two years will bring? They still have a scholarship to give for that year.
Right, but unless Buzz can't count that scholarship is going to a guard if not specifically a PG.
The way it is right now, MU loses 5 guards including 2 true point guards in the next 2 classes. Conversely they are only bringing in 3 guards. Only one of those is a true point, and another is a JUCO.
There's going to be a desperate need for another ball handler in the 2010 class so you aren't relying a on a freshman in 2011 if something happens to Cadougan.
Taking another big with the last remaining 2010 spot doesn't make a lick of sense unless something else happens to the guys we already have.
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Right, but unless Buzz can't count that scholarship is going to a guard if not specifically a PG.
Lavonte Dority or Trae Golden, come on down
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Young guards (fresh / sophs) are OK but young bigs normally do not work out with the exceptin of Greg Oden. Bigs are not ormally ready to go until years 3,4,5 where the guards can be ready to go in years 1 and 2. I had read somewhere where Buzz wants to have a big in every single class.
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Hate to get into this knowing that Buzz's job will be determined w/ the 2010-11 class BUT you win with GUARDS Look no futher as to why MU is getting such favorable press. Each and every "talking head" remarks about what GREAT guards MU has-- as a group---none better in the country. Yes MU needs bigs but guards are what WINS.
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Hate to get into this knowing that Buzz's job will be determined w/ the 2010-11 class BUT you win with GUARDS Look no futher as to why MU is getting such favorable press. Each and every "talking head" remarks about what GREAT guards MU has-- as a group---none better in the country. Yes MU needs bigs but guards are what WINS.
You win with good players, regardless of position.
Most importantly, you win with balance.
Marquette had these same terrific guards last year, and couldn't get past the round of 32 because they had no one who could handle the Lopez Abominations.
Look at the Final Four teams of the recent past and you'll see they had top-notch players both upfront and in the backcourt. (Kansas: Chalmers, Rush and Arthur; Memphis: Rose, CDR and Dorsey; UCLA: Collison, Westbrook and Love; UNC: Lawson, Ellington and Hansbrough).
Buzz is indeed loading up on frontcourt players, but he's also brought in a top 50 point guard (Cadougan) and arguably the best JUCO guard in the country (Buycks) in the Class of 2009 and an off-guard prospect (Bowen) in the 2010 class. Use the remaining 2010 scholie on a guard (preferably one who could at least back up at the point) and this team has loads of balance and flexibility.
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You win with good players, regardless of position.
Most importantly, you win with balance.
Marquette had these same terrific guards last year, and couldn't get past the round of 32 because they had no one who could handle the Lopez Abominations.
Look at the Final Four teams of the recent past and you'll see they had top-notch players both upfront and in the backcourt. (Kansas: Chalmers, Rush and Arthur; Memphis: Rose, CDR and Dorsey; UCLA: Collison, Westbrook and Love; UNC: Lawson, Ellington and Hansbrough).
Wait, having good players at all positions is better than having just good guards or just good bigs. Shocking! ;)
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The more and more I read (and hear) about Riley from people in Michigan says stay away. Yes, he's only an 18 year old kid. But, do we really need a kid that has to be motivated to play hard half the time? If I want that, I'll watch an NBA game.
I think it is safe to say that Buzz will not let a player play who does not play hard on defense. Given that Riley is not a risk, because he will be gone after one year if he does not work hard. The same thing goes for any other player.
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Anyone else find it interesting that Buzz can coach a small guard oriented team well and is now recruiting a large team. If he can change his style and coach this team well too (and we'll have to wait and see), then he might have more ability than we are giving him credit for.
All the players that he is recruiting appear to be very athletic, so they should fit his system.
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Wait, having good players at all positions is better than having just good guards or just good bigs. Shocking! ;)
I'm a basketball savant, if you hadn't already guessed it.
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Hopefully htis Cark fella has good people surronding him when he returns back HOME to Milwaukee. Sounds like he some types of "issues" while in high school - now he's coming back home. Hopefully if those issues were bacause of who he hung around with - he can change that when he is back home.
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You win with good players, regardless of position.
Most importantly, you win with balance.
Marquette had these same terrific guards last year, and couldn't get past the round of 32 because they had no one who could handle the Lopez Abominations.
Look at the Final Four teams of the recent past and you'll see they had top-notch players both upfront and in the backcourt. (Kansas: Chalmers, Rush and Arthur; Memphis: Rose, CDR and Dorsey; UCLA: Collison, Westbrook and Love; UNC: Lawson, Ellington and Hansbrough).
Buzz is indeed loading up on frontcourt players, but he's also brought in a top 50 point guard (Cadougan) and arguably the best JUCO guard in the country (Buycks) in the Class of 2009 and an off-guard prospect (Bowen) in the 2010 class. Use the remaining 2010 scholie on a guard (preferably one who could at least back up at the point) and this team has loads of balance and flexibility.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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Hate to get into this knowing that Buzz's job will be determined w/ the 2010-11 class BUT you win with GUARDS Look no futher as to why MU is getting such favorable press. Each and every "talking head" remarks about what GREAT guards MU has-- as a group---none better in the country. Yes MU needs bigs but guards are what WINS.
Add Jordin Mayes to this 2010 class and I'm good
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Add Jordin Mayes to this 2010 class and I'm good
That would be great. But, realisitically speaking, Buzz is going to have a challenging time landing a top 100 point guard one year after landing a top 50 point guard. Essentially he has to convince a kid to come to MU and potentially play backup minutes for as many as three years. That's a tough sell when a lot of top 100 kids expect to start right away.
I hope he can pull it off, but won't look too unkindly upon him if he doesn't.
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What were the rankings of each of the three amigos when they were being recruited?
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What were the rankings of each of the three amigos when they were being recruited?
The final rsci rankings for the class of 2005 were as follows:
James - 36
McNeal - 57
Matthews - 61
http://rscihoops.com/ (http://rscihoops.com/)
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What ever happened to the recruitment of 2010 SG Flavien Davis? A few years ago, he was projected to be a top ten recruit, and very interested in MU. Yet he has fallen by the wayside and no discussion about him. I don't live in Milwaukee area, so I can't really follow.
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if we could recruit 3 guards in the top 61 in one class, point guards or not, it seems possible that we could recruit another top 100 PG to back up Junior. Especially if Buzz wants the option of continuing to play 3 guards at once.
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What ever happened to the recruitment of 2010 SG Flavien Davis? A few years ago, he was projected to be a top ten recruit, and very interested in MU. Yet he has fallen by the wayside and no discussion about him. I don't live in Milwaukee area, so I can't really follow.
He just hasn't developed the way people thought he would/should. His game didn't really expand from his freshman year, and that caused a lot of guys to pass him by. At times, he wasn't really interested in giving maximum effort on the court, or in putting in the work required on the court and in practice to get better. Plus, he's been mostly an inside guy his first two years, and is now moving to the perimeter this year.
He still has time to turn it around, and still has time to be a top 50 player, but it's probably to late to get back in the top 10. As of right now, his rankings are all over the place. Some have him in the top 50, some in the top 100, some not ranked at all.
Right now, with MU's need for a PG in that class he's low on the priority list.
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He just hasn't developed the way people thought he would/should. His game didn't really expand from his freshman year, and that caused a lot of guys to pass him by. At times, he wasn't really interested in giving maximum effort on the court, or in putting in the work required on the court and in practice to get better. Plus, he's been mostly an inside guy his first two years, and is now moving to the perimeter this year.
He still has time to turn it around, and still has time to be a top 50 player, but it's probably to late to get back in the top 10. As of right now, his rankings are all over the place. Some have him in the top 50, some in the top 100, some not ranked at all.
Right now, with MU's need for a PG in that class he's low on the priority list.
that is the biggest line. My hs alma mater is in the same conference as Wisco and I've seen him play at the Al once or twice as well. His effort isn't there on a consistent basis. The times I've seen him play he's generally lazy on the defensive end and doesn't seem to be fully involved in the game.
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Thanks, knew you would have the answer. MU should move on without him.
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Loosen up.
Didn't realize the hoyte toytes were here tonight. 1) Remove bundle from panties. 2) Try again.
I think you should clean up your mess on this thread and then respond to your allegations in this thread.. ... tick,tick,tick........
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=12246.0
You are making friends everywhere.
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Guards are a dime a dozen. They can be picked up anywhere anytime - via a transfer etc etc.. You can never have too much size
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Guards are a dime a dozen. They can be picked up anywhere anytime - via a transfer etc etc..
You're so right. McNeal's just any other guard. James and Matthews are basically expendable, too. Good thing we have a phenomenal presence inside to propel us to the top 10 in the nation and undefeated in the hardest conference in NCAA bball.
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Guards are a dime a dozen. They can be picked up anywhere anytime - via a transfer etc etc.. You can never have too much size
Were you around when Deiner got hurt his senior year? The last 3-5 games were about as UGLY as you can get due to lack of quality guards.
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dudes,
Chill - I'm just saying there are alot more guards to recruit than bigs. So if yoiu see s big you really like, you better go for it.