Daily UpdateWritten by: noreply@blogger.com (Henry Sugar)Just catching folks up on the various bits of Marquette information spreading across the airwaves:
Continuing on the original Rivals article by Bob McClellan (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?cid=808250) that we commented on last week (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/05/cottingham-details-process.html), Rivals has a new article asking "Was Williams the right choice for Marquette? (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=809101). The article starts off by saying that
QuoteIt's fair to categorize Marquette's hiring of Buzz Williams to replace Tom Crean as a major surprise
McClellan calls the hire a "Good Hire" (not great), but the co-author Andrew Skwara calls it a "Questionable". Read the link for additional information. Just like the original article sparked a six page thread on MUScoop (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9116.0), the new article is likewise generating further debate. (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=809101)
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Rosiak's excellent blog covered Crean's MU Salary (http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/05/19/crean-s-mu-salary.aspx) yesterday. Crean earned $1.85 million in the fiscal year ending June 30, 2007 and was by far the highest paid faculty member at the school. The article has additional details, including comparisons with other coaches.
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In some good news, the Chicago Tribune has a front page story about McNeal, titled "Marquette's McNeal intent on taking his shot at NBA" (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/cs-080519-jerel-mcneal-marquette-nba-draft,1,3091880.story). Just like Dominic James last year, the situation is really a win-win for McNeal. He gets to test out the process and receive NBA feedback, and his worst case scenario is returning for his senior year.
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Buzz Williams was the featured guest on the Dennis Krause show yesterday afternoon. According to GoMarquette.com's release (http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051508aaa.html), the show will be broadcast over two dozen times in the next week. You could also watch it on the internet (requires IE) (http://all-access.cstv.com/cstv/player/player.html?code=marq&sport=m-baskbl&category=Features%20%26%20Interviews%20%28MediaType%29&media=68855)
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Finally, Time Warner Sports is re-broadcasting (http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051908aab.html) classic Marquette games throughout the summer. The station will broadcast a different Marquette game every Friday night, with an encore presentation on Sunday evening. The schedule features only Marquette victories (which is nice), and includes competition such as Pitt, Cincy, Louisville, Duke, South Carolina, and "It's Indiana, It's Indiana". This week's game is Louisville at Marquette (2/20/97). Check the link for more details.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/05/daily-update.html
I have now seen/heard Buzz interviewed on three occasions and have yet to see anything that suggests he is capable of "blowing away" the powers that be at Marquette during the interview process.
Is that not what we were told...that his interviews "blew them away?" I guess that's not hard to do when nobody else interviews.
Well, when your AD has zero experience hiring a head coach, only talks to people via phone, and never brings anyone else in to personally interview, I guess it's hard to disagree with C-ham.
If he has nobody to compare Buzz too, that would mean Buzz was the best interview ever. That happens when the deck is stacked in your favor.
Harvey and Niv, you two are really starting to annoy me.
Do you have any idea what went into the process? Didn't think so.
As I mentioned on the other board, this is my biggest gripe. The entire MU athletic administration (as well as Cords who was involved with this search), Big East respresentatives, and various people coast-to-coast all had great things to say about Buzz. He comes very highly regarded. People who actually know him and know the coaching profession.
Yet, a few salty crybabies who know nothing about him continue to piss and moan and insist it's a bad hire.
Again I repeat, a lot of people who know a lot about basketball think very highly of Buzz.
I'd just like to know who should have been hired instead??? Perfect example: Greg McDermott. He was a hot coach a few years ago at Northern Iowa. What's he done at Iowa State? Not a damn thing. Would Chris Lowery be a better choice? Some of SIU's fans don't think he's anything special. There are no "guarantees" in a coaching search.
Sorry to jump on you guys. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. If you are slightly apprehensive about the hire and the future, I can understand that. But why is it so hard to believe that he really won them over when they interviewed him, and also came with very high recommendations. Isn't that how most people get jobs? I just think it's frustrating that people can't accept it, and give him their full support. I think everybody will be very pleased with this hire in time.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
Again I repeat, a lot of people who know a lot about basketball think very highly of Buzz.
The same was said of the decision to hire Bob Dukiet. Do you think MU would get folks on the record who would say Buzz was a bad hire? Or that any fellow coach or broadcaster would hammer the hire? Not gonna happen.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
why is it so hard to believe that he really won them over when they interviewed him, and also came with very high recommendations. Isn't that how most people get jobs?
Yes, though most interview
competitively for an open position. That's the biggest issue here - and it stinks even more when u consider the Cottingham hiring process, where MU failed to open itself up to introspection, scrutiny and perspectives from folks outside of O'Hara Hall and The Al. Heck, its easy to look like the best candidate when u are the only one that MU truly interviewed -- and that interview was conducted by somebody who thinks one and done is enough (since it was good enough for him). Sure Cottingham reached out and contacted others -- but that is far from an interview.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
I just think it's frustrating that people can't accept it, and give him their full support.
Support for Buzz? The arguments are rooted in frustration at MU's decision-making capabilities.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
I think everybody will be very pleased with this hire in time.
Sure hope so. He's inherited a fine team for this upcoming season. Now let's stay healthy and get some new talent into the mix (I have no doubt he will easily out-recruit Crean). Go Buzz!
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
Harvey and Niv, you two are really starting to annoy me.
The entire MU athletic administration (as well as Cords who was involved with this search), Big East respresentatives, and various people coast-to-coast all had great things to say about Buzz. He comes very highly regarded. People who actually know him and know the coaching profession.
Remember that time when a university hired a basketball coach and the AD, fellow conference members and "various people" immediately ripped him as a terrible coach and a gigantic mistake?
Neither do I.
You're telling us because Marquette is telling us it's a good hire, it's a good hire. These are the same people who insisted "Gold" was a genius decision. The same people who failed to interview a SINGLE CANDIDATE for our athletic director position. The same people that didn't bother to interview anybody other than an inexperienced assistant for our head coaching job...a self described basketball "junkie" who admitted he knew nothing about Marquette or the Big East LESS THAN A YEAR AGO!!!!
I am as much as guaranteeing you...this guy is in so far over his head we're going to need Babe Winkelman to fish him out.
I am not "slightly apprehensive" about the hire. I watch this guy in interviews and I think it's a disaster waiting to happen. Watch that interview and tell me he's got what it takes to coach against Calhoun, Huggins, Pitino, Boeheim, JTIII, Dixon, Wright, etc.
This guy is a high school JV coach...not Big East material. Do you honestly believe he's the best we could do?!
My God...wake the heck up!
Basketball--
Do you realize that your childish reactions only enhance the enmity?
Keep throwing around that we don't know anything about the process. Neither do you. As I wrote in another thread, nothing beats people who know nothing about the process blasting people who know nothing about the process blasting the search.
Why is it so hard for people to believe that he really won them over when they interviewed him? One example would be his answer to what kind of style he coaches and his philosophy. That's right, he hasn't given an answer.
I still don't understand how, 6 weeks after he was hired, we don't have one article from a writer in which Buzz Williams is quoted as explaining the offense he wants to run and his defensive principles. For this fan, that is shocking. I'd rather have TC's coachspeak then non-answers.
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on May 20, 2008, 05:29:01 PM
Remember that time when a university hired a basketball coach and the AD, fellow conference members and "various people" immediately ripped him as a terrible coach and a gigantic mistake?
Neither do I.
You're telling us because Marquette is telling us it's a good hire, it's a good hire. These are the same people who insisted "Gold" was a genius decision. The same people who failed to interview a SINGLE CANDIDATE for our athletic director position. The same people that didn't bother to interview anybody other than an inexperienced assistant for our head coaching job...a self described basketball "junkie" who admitted he knew nothing about Marquette or the Big East LESS THAN A YEAR AGO!!!!
I am going to trust that the Marquette administration knows what it is doing. First, they know more than we do about who would make a better coach. Second, outside of the Gold fiasco (which was the result at the picking of an old wound by a Trustee of all people) Father Wild's administration has made fantastic decisions in all aspects of operating the University. They deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Certainly they have more credibility than a guy on a message board that says "Hey, I saw him on television and he doesn't seem all that impressive."
Harvey, you are wrong. No two ways about it.
I think he's a good interview. I guess we see things differently.
I'm not going to pretend to be some big source who knows all sorts of people in basketball. But, I'm a subscriber on the Scout board. Mark Miller knows a lot of people. People who, again, know what they are talking about think very highly of Buzz.
I'd give you a lot more respect if you had reasons, tangible evidence, to back up your stance that he is in "way over his head".
Has he worked for good, successful coaches? Check.
Have programs improved while he was there? Check.
Can he recruit at a high level? Check.
What's the problem here? Do you have any idea why New Orleans AD Jim Miller was so pissed off when Buzz left? BECAUSE HE WAS DOING A GREAT JOB WITH THE PROGRAM. I laugh all the time when people point to his 14-17 record at UNO as if it's a bad thing. If he had a 14-17 record replacing Jeff Capel at VCU, for example, then I'd agree. But he walked into a disaster, at a place where the previous head coach also left to become an assistant elsewhere. What does that tell you?
Buzz brought in a Top 50 class into an impossible place to recruit to at that time. Some of the kids he signed stayed, others left.
Kyndall Dykes stayed, shot over 50% from the floor and averaged almost 14 ppg. Kechan Myers stayed as well and was a solid player for them as well.
Joseph Fulce left and he'll be attending MU, as we all know. Troy Mathis backed out and went to Clemson.
Jim Miller was pissed he left because he was doing an unbelievable job at that school. Is that hard to understand?
He was a hot assistant coach, and despite what some think, had a successful one-year stint as a head coach where he gained valuable experience.
Harvey, that's why he'll succeed here. Please, tell me why he won't succeed, as you say?
I'm waiting....
Quote from: jce on May 20, 2008, 05:36:40 PM
Certainly they have more credibility than a guy on a message board that says "Hey, I saw him on television and he doesn't seem all that impressive."
Do you not understand that part of his job is to be impressive on television? To be a confident, well-spoken agent of Marquette University? He's our most high profile employee. If he's crying on TV after games, is that something you think makes people think positively about MU and the people who work there? If he's crawling around on all fours during games, do you think people will say, "I want my son to play for this fella?"
I think there are a lot of people who are not seeing the big picture here.
Quote from: nola03 on May 20, 2008, 05:32:13 PM
Basketball--
Do you realize that your childish reactions only enhance the enmity?
Keep throwing around that we don't know anything about the process. Neither do you. As I wrote in another thread, nothing beats people who know nothing about the process blasting people who know nothing about the process blasting the search.
Why is it so hard for people to believe that he really won them over when they interviewed him? One example would be his answer to what kind of style he coaches and his philosophy. That's right, he hasn't given an answer.
I still don't understand how, 6 weeks after he was hired, we don't have one article from a writer in which Buzz Williams is quoted as explaining the offense he wants to run and his defensive principles. For this fan, that is shocking. I'd rather have TC's coachspeak then non-answers.
Not trying to be childish...trying to change the opinions of the few who refuse to let this whole thing go and move forward and support the coach. I'm probably not getting my points across very well, but oh well.
I'm just saying if you know you have a good thing in front of you, go for it. That's what they did with Buzz, while consulting a lot of people as well. Their gut, and other people, told them this was the guy.
Great...let's move ahead and talk recruiting and the '08-'09 season, etc.
Coaching really isn't rocket science. He's bounced around and constantly moved up and learned under really good coaches. He will do a good job with alumni and boosters and students, and he'll recruit his ass off. More than anything else, I'm just baffled why he isn't getting more vocal support.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
More than anything else, I'm just baffled why he isn't getting more vocal support.
Because he's not qualifed to be the coach, that's why. If he had stayed at UNO and made the Sweet 16 last year, he would have never been interviewed. He's not qualified!
He was hired essentially because he was first guy who walked by the open door of Cottingham's office.
Why did we allegedly send somebody to the Final Four if it was only to send for Williams? WHY? WHY? WHY?
I'm done with you Harvey.
You crying like a baby and have no reason to. Yes, he is qualified. In your eyes, he isn't. Any other reasons you don't like him other than: a) he didn't lead UNO to the Sweet 16, and b) you don't like his interviews?
I'll save a spot on the bandwagon for ya.
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on May 20, 2008, 05:42:53 PM
Do you not understand that part of his job is to be impressive on television? To be a confident, well-spoken agent of Marquette University? He's our most high profile employee. If he's crying on TV after games, is that something you think makes people think positively about MU and the people who work there? If he's crawling around on all fours during games, do you think people will say, "I want my son to play for this fella?"
If he wins games and graduates players, I don't care if he decides to walk around on his hands and knees. My guess is that he is a great guy one-on-one, but doesn't come off well on television. Kind of like the anti-Crean. There is more than one way to coach basketball, and while I was not real happy with the hire, I'm ready to move on.
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on May 20, 2008, 05:50:55 PM
Because he's not qualifed to be the coach, that's why. If he had stayed at UNO and made the Sweet 16 last year, he would have never been interviewed. He's not qualified!
If he stayed at UNO and made the Sweet 16, he not only would have been interviewed, he likely would have been the national coach of the year. Think about it...if he takes UNO to the Sweet 16, that's a better coaching job than Keno Davis.
You are getting more rediculous with each post.
Harvey and Niv waaah, waaah, waaaahhhhhh.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:45:15 PM
Not trying to be childish...trying to change the opinions of the few who refuse to let this whole thing go and move forward and support the coach. I'm probably not getting my points across very well, but oh well.
I'm just saying if you know you have a good thing in front of you, go for it. That's what they did with Buzz, while consulting a lot of people as well. Their gut, and other people, told them this was the guy.
Great...let's move ahead and talk recruiting and the '08-'09 season, etc.
Coaching really isn't rocket science. He's bounced around and constantly moved up and learned under really good coaches. He will do a good job with alumni and boosters and students, and he'll recruit his ass off. More than anything else, I'm just baffled why he isn't getting more vocal support.
Who is NOT supporting the coach? I don't know anyone that doesn't want Buzz Williams to succeed unless they are UW-Madison, UW-Milwaukee or other Big East fans. I don't know any MU fan that doesn't want this coach to succeed.
The other posters are correct, it was also my biggest beef with McLellan's article yesterday using Gillespie's quotes. No coach ANYWHERE is going to say anything negative about a hire, they might after a guy gets canned but not after he just got hired. That's just coach speak. Same for conference commissioners, etc, etc....no way anyone would ever go publicly on record and say something bad about a hire, so going there for validation is just silly.
If someone can show me where a major college basketball coach ripped into another school's hire and said how terrible it was, please show me. I would be stunned.
But if you think some alums are just going to sit by and not express some frustrations about who was hired, how, etc. then I think you might in for a surprise. A ton of uncertainty right now, which is not something MU fans are used to the last 7 years with 5 NCAA appearances, 2 NIT appearances, a Final Four, numerous all league players, etc. Uncertainty brought about by a surprise hire.....good or bad....a surprise hire.
But I still want Buzz to kick ass
Quote from: jce on May 20, 2008, 05:57:24 PM
My guess is that he is a great guy one-on-one, but doesn't come off well on television. Kind of like the anti-Crean.
This is a great point.
People complained that Crean was a used car salesman... and now people complain that Buzz isn't polished enough.
Honestly, I think that just shows that you can't please everybody.
For those of you with reservations about Buzz... I feel the same way... but let's be optimistic AT LEAST until the guy coaches some games.
Bitching about the coach now only leads me to believe that you are a sports fan who just enjoys bitching... in which case there is no point debating because you will inevitably find something else to bitch about.
Sports radio has created an industry around this type of fan.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 05:39:29 PM
What's the problem here? Do you have any idea why New Orleans AD Jim Miller was so pissed off when Buzz left? BECAUSE HE WAS DOING A GREAT JOB WITH THE PROGRAM. I laugh all the time when people point to his 14-17 record at UNO as if it's a bad thing. If he had a 14-17 record replacing Jeff Capel at VCU, for example, then I'd agree. But he walked into a disaster, at a place where the previous head coach also left to become an assistant elsewhere. What does that tell you?
You might want to reach out to a few reporters down in New Orleans about why Miller was pissed rather then the answer you gave.
Here's a summary
1) New Orleans just lost their previous coach one year earlier to an assistant's job at NC State. So this was 2 coaches, back to back years leaving head coaching positions for assistant coaching positions. Bad, bad, bad for New Orleans and their perception. That's why Miller was so pissed
2) He resigned after July 4th....after July 4th. Think about that. Miller was pissed because instead of doing it in March after the season was over, or even April, or even May...or hell, how about June, he resigned in July. Literally 6 weeks before school started. That put their program in a world of bigger hurt. That's why Miller was pissed.
Can you imagine MU having to go out and hire a coach starting in July....coaches are ready to make moves in March and April, not in July....that's way past the time when you can get a qualified coach for most programs. That's why Miller was pissed.
Now, did he bring in some nice players, etc...yes. But rest assured, reasons 1 and 2 were why Miller was most pissed off, not because of the outstanding job that was done. UNO took a tremendous hit with Katrina then having two coaches leave back to back years, including one that waited until July.
I'm happy to give you the names of some reporters you can email that will give you the scoop on why Miller was so ticked off. Or to sum it up, the most disappointing decision he's endured in 30 years in athletics. Just imagine for a second how pissed off we would be....or our athletic director. Look how pissed off everyone was with Crean leaving the first day in April....can you imagine him leaving 3 months later?
Some interesting comments when it happened here.
http://blog.nola.com/tpsports/2007/07/uno_coach_resigns.html
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2008, 06:33:38 PM
You might want to reach out to a few reporters down in New Orleans about why Miller was pissed rather then the answer you gave.
Here's a summary
1) New Orleans just lost their previous coach one year earlier to an assistant's job at NC State. So this was 2 coaches, back to back years leaving head coaching positions for assistant coaching positions. Bad, bad, bad for New Orleans and their perception. That's why Miller was so pissed
2) He resigned after July 4th....after July 4th. Think about that. Miller was pissed because instead of doing it in March after the season was over, or even April, or even May...or hell, how about June, he resigned in July. Literally 6 weeks before school started. That put their program in a world of bigger hurt. That's why Miller was pissed.
Can you imagine MU having to go out and hire a coach starting in July....coaches are ready to make moves in March and April, not in July....that's way past the time when you can get a qualified coach for most programs. That's why Miller was pissed.
Now, did he bring in some nice players, etc...yes. But rest assured, reasons 1 and 2 were why Miller was most pissed off, not because of the outstanding job that was done. UNO took a tremendous hit with Katrina then having two coaches leave back to back years, including one that waited until July.
I'm happy to give you the names of some reporters you can email that will give you the scoop on why Miller was so ticked off. Or to sum it up, the most disappointing decision he's endured in 30 years in athletics. Just imagine for a second how pissed off we would be....or our athletic director. Look how pissed off everyone was with Crean leaving the first day in April....can you imagine him leaving 3 months later?
Some interesting comments when it happened here.
http://blog.nola.com/tpsports/2007/07/uno_coach_resigns.html
Did the reporters publish any stories on this? I haven't been able to find any on the web. I think your synopsis is a bit one sided from what I heard...with the reality somewhere in between. Either way, this is news and any reporter worth his/her salt would have done an expose on this.
Here are some questions you may want to ask them. Why did Towe quit the hc job to return to NCST to take an assistants role again? Why didn't Miller reimburse the players their meal money? Why weren't the coaches being paid? Why was UNO still playing in a rec center with tarped locker rooms under the stands for all to see and hear after Miller missed on promises about the start of arena construction? Why were most promises to Buzz not kept? Why did Buzz sue UNO and not the other way around? Maybe there is something in all of this as to why Buzz left so close to the start of school.
Btw, Majerus quit July 1 too leaving us in a lurch just like he did with USC. You are right, that certainly set us back 15 years. All I am saying is Miller is not so innocent. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 20, 2008, 06:33:38 PM
You might want to reach out to a few reporters down in New Orleans about why Miller was pissed rather then the answer you gave.
Here's a summary
1) New Orleans just lost their previous coach one year earlier to an assistant's job at NC State. So this was 2 coaches, back to back years leaving head coaching positions for assistant coaching positions. Bad, bad, bad for New Orleans and their perception. That's why Miller was so pissed
2) He resigned after July 4th....after July 4th. Think about that. Miller was pissed because instead of doing it in March after the season was over, or even April, or even May...or hell, how about June, he resigned in July. Literally 6 weeks before school started. That put their program in a world of bigger hurt. That's why Miller was pissed.
Can you imagine MU having to go out and hire a coach starting in July....coaches are ready to make moves in March and April, not in July....that's way past the time when you can get a qualified coach for most programs. That's why Miller was pissed.
Now, did he bring in some nice players, etc...yes. But rest assured, reasons 1 and 2 were why Miller was most pissed off, not because of the outstanding job that was done. UNO took a tremendous hit with Katrina then having two coaches leave back to back years, including one that waited until July.
I'm happy to give you the names of some reporters you can email that will give you the scoop on why Miller was so ticked off. Or to sum it up, the most disappointing decision he's endured in 30 years in athletics. Just imagine for a second how pissed off we would be....or our athletic director. Look how pissed off everyone was with Crean leaving the first day in April....can you imagine him leaving 3 months later?
Some interesting comments when it happened here.
http://blog.nola.com/tpsports/2007/07/uno_coach_resigns.html
Majerus left MU high and dry in June when his pal, Nelson, let him save face by hiring Rick as the Bucks 3rd asst. coach. Then Hank hired that winner of all winners, Dukiet, in July after Mike Newell's old lady said she ain't goin' to no Milwaukee.
I'm telling you why Miller was ticked. The poster said it was because Buzz was doing a great job, that is not the reason he was most ticked/pissed.
Was Buzz right to quit? That I don't know, nor did I even bring that up in my response. Buzz certainly felt promises were made to him about the arena, meals, payment to assistants, etc and felt going to MU was a better career move then his current situation. I can't get into Buzz's shoes nor am I going to blame him for that decision. A guy has to do what a guy has to do.
But the statement of why Miller was upset (by Mr. Basketball), was just wrong. Put yourself in Miller's shoes (by asking those reporters that spoke him or talk to the some of the associate commissioners of the Sun Belt)....he was upset because his program had been turned upside down by a major storm and two coaches voluntary departures, plus the timing of the last resignation. It's a normal reaction that Miller would have, whether promises were made or not, he's still going to be damn pissed off in July for losing a coach for the second straight year. Whether he was the cause (breaking promises) isn't going to change how he (Miller) feels about it....which was pissed off. This idea that it was because of how well the 14-17 team was doing is not accurate. The reason there wasn't any articles about it...I have two guesses. One, it's UNO. Not much love for UNO lately even in New Orleans. Second, the AD is smart enough to know that he has to move on and bringing up some of those potential promises only makes life more difficult for him to hire the next guy...he has to move on. That doesn't prevent him from privately, off the record, expressing his "disappointment" / frustration / exasperation (one word that was used) / anger (another word that was conveyed to me).
Hell, our administration was pissed off for Crean leaving in April...just imagine how upset we and our administration would be if our coach left in July and it was the second consecutive year the coach left...VOLUNTARILY. We'd be pissed to, even if some promises were made, we'd still be pissed. To sugarcoat it and say it was because of the job he was doing is ignoring the dynamics in play in New Orleans.
PS By the way, didn't UNO countersue Buzz? Seems to me that MU was going to try and have them throw out the suit by trying to play a game down there or some other arrangement.
PSS And yes, Majerus's resignation's timing in June did us no favors either....now add another 3 + weeks to that timeline. Majerus resigned on June 14th. Buzz resigned on July 7th. That is going to ruin the day of any AD, whether it's Hank Raymonds or Jim Miller....it's certainly capable of pissing them off.
Chicos, why don't we admit we're both right?
Obviously, the timing was horrible for UNO. Leaving a program in July is a major kick in the pants. So that is a big reason for Miller to be upset.
But he was also upset/disappointed because he knew he had a good coach, and a guy who despite the magnitude of problems in New Orleans, was really turning it around in a hurry. To say that wasn't a reason is incorrect.
Regardless, we can all agree he was HELLA pissed!!
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 20, 2008, 08:28:47 PM
Chicos, why don't we admit we're both right?
Obviously, the timing was horrible for UNO. Leaving a program in July is a major kick in the pants. So that is a big reason for Miller to be upset.
But he was also upset/disappointed because he knew he had a good coach, and a guy who despite the magnitude of problems in New Orleans, was really turning it around in a hurry. To say that wasn't a reason is incorrect.
Regardless, we can all agree he was HELLA pissed!!
I agree, he was HELLA upset. I also agree that he felt he had a guy that could certainly recruit and had the potential to grow into a good bench coach, though wasn't there yet. That was certainly part of it...we agree
could you post some more pundits pOVs on the buzz hiring. I need more of their opinions before I make a decision whether or not this was a good decision. These pundits are so much closer to the program than all of us, so I need more. (this is sarcasm)
Quote from: mviale on May 20, 2008, 09:44:02 PM
could you post some more pundits pOVs on the buzz hiring. I need more of their opinions before I make a decision whether or not this was a good decision. These pundits are so much closer to the program than all of us, so I need more. (this is sarcasm)
When a positive article comes out, I'll post that as soon as it arrives.
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 20, 2008, 06:28:02 PM
Bitching about the coach now only leads me to believe that you are a sports fan who just enjoys bitching... in which case there is no point debating because you will inevitably find something else to bitch about.
Sports radio has created an industry around this type of fan.
What about me?
I'm not a complainer at all. When I watch my teams, I can do so outside of the emotion. Certainly as it relates to MU, I've never been a "bitch just to bitch" fan. In fact, I've been told repeatedly that I don't bitch because my apologist blinders are on too tight. My record over the last 6-7 seasons in these fan forums backs that up 100%.
There are a lot of people who are diehard MU fans that will question this decision for some time -- at least until the end of 09-10.
And, Baksetball, if you still read this thread, can you help to settle my fears on why the coach has yet to explicitly state his offensive system and defensive principles 6 weeks after being hired?
Quote from: nola03 on May 21, 2008, 08:09:42 AM
What about me?
I'm not a complainer at all. When I watch my teams, I can do so outside of the emotion. Certainly as it relates to MU, I've never been a "bitch just to bitch" fan. In fact, I've been told repeatedly that I don't bitch because my apologist blinders are on too tight. My record over the last 6-7 seasons in these fan forums backs that up 100%.
There are a lot of people who are diehard MU fans that will question this decision for some time -- at least until the end of 09-10.
And, Baksetball, if you still read this thread, can you help to settle my fears on why the coach has yet to explicitly state his offensive system and defensive principles 6 weeks after being hired?
I understand and share your concern... honest.
I'm just a little sick of people repeating their doubts over and over again when there isn't anything to judge buzz on (yet).
I'm nervously optimistic... so I'm going to actually wait until I see some of Buzz's coaching and recruiting before I get too excited or too down.
Let the guy get in and start working before we start doubting.
Like him or not, he's what we got.
Quote from: nola03 on May 21, 2008, 08:09:42 AM
And, Baksetball, if you still read this thread, can you help to settle my fears on why the coach has yet to explicitly state his offensive system and defensive principles 6 weeks after being hired?
Well I'm with you on this one. It doesn't concern me that he hasn't talked about it, but I'd love to hear him talk about these things.
Why haven't we heard anything? Probably because there is ZERO talk of MU basketball this time of year. We are talking about a college hoops team in Milwaukee, WI. The talk right now is split between Brewers baseball and Packers football.
I'm slightly disappointed in Rosiak not having much for blogs on the JS. I can understand not having weekly articles in the paper. But it's a blog for crying out loud. It doesn't take up precious newspaper space. Why not give us updates every few days? Talk to coach about his style and report back.
Dennis Krause had the chance to on Monday, and never asked the question.
I don't blame Buzz for not talking about it, I blame the media for not asking him about it.
My recommendation? Everybody should try and go to the Texas BBQ in about a month. I'm sure Buzz will be easily accessible during this. I hope to go, and if so I hope to chat with him about it. Is anybody going for sure? I'd also love to meet some posters and discuss this hire.
Quote from: nola03 on May 21, 2008, 08:09:42 AM
And, Baksetball, if you still read this thread, can you help to settle my fears on why the coach has yet to explicitly state his offensive system and defensive principles 6 weeks after being hired?
Has Tom Crean explicity stated his offensive system and defensive principles to the Indiana press?
Has Johnny Dawkins done it in the Bay Area?
Travis Ford at OSU?
Keno Davis at Providence?
Is it a common tact for new coaches to go public with their playbooks and philosophies?
Quote from: Pakuni on May 21, 2008, 01:35:08 PM
Has Tom Crean explicity stated his offensive system and defensive principles to the Indiana press?
Has Johnny Dawkins done it in the Bay Area?
Travis Ford at OSU?
Keno Davis at Providence?
Is it a common tact for new coaches to go public with their playbooks and philosophies?
Yes....they all said they run a winning offensive set ;)
Quote from: Pakuni on May 21, 2008, 01:35:08 PM
Has Tom Crean explicity stated his offensive system and defensive principles to the Indiana press?
Has Johnny Dawkins done it in the Bay Area?
Travis Ford at OSU?
Keno Davis at Providence?
Is it a common tact for new coaches to go public with their playbooks and philosophies?
I think it's safe to assume Travis Ford will run the same thing he's been running. Dawkins will run the same thing Duke runs. Davis will run the same thing he did at Drake and the same thing his father ran for years.
These guys are all known quantities. It was a fair question to ask Williams. Unfortunately, he had no answer. I'm sure that kind of response "blew them away" during the interview process.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 21, 2008, 02:43:01 PM
Yes....they all said they run a winning offensive set ;)
I'll take that to mean "I can't find that they did, but admitting it would mean one less reason to criticize Buzz's hiring."
Quote from: Pakuni on May 21, 2008, 03:09:47 PM
I'll take that to mean "I can't find that they did, but admitting it would mean one less reason to criticize Buzz's hiring."
You can take that as I didn't bother to look and I find Buzz's answer to be a bit amateurish in one sense, but probably genuine in another. I'm not sure he really knows, which isn't a bad answer but one he probably didn't want to reveal. He'll get better at dealing with the media through time, that answer came from someone not used to dealing with the media in my opinion.
Has Harvey been banned? Why does his info now say guest?
As an 1982 Brewer fan, I would be deeply offended if Harvey was banned.
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 21, 2008, 12:35:44 PM
I don't blame Buzz for not talking about it, I blame the media for not asking him about it.
My recommendation? Everybody should try and go to the Texas BBQ in about a month. I'm sure Buzz will be easily accessible during this. I hope to go, and if so I hope to chat with him about it. Is anybody going for sure? I'd also love to meet some posters and discuss this hire.
As expected, I look at it differently.
I understand the media getting some of the blame. Certainly this question should have been asked more directly by Rosiak in the last six weeks. And I assume Krause has a 30-minute show and the fact it didn't come up is shocking.
That said, he was asked directly (by a female reporter if I remember) during his introductory press conference and give us the infamous "I have a winning style" answer. He also seemed to sit down with Bob McClellan for a fairly in-depth article that I'm sure he knew would be linked up with a recruiting website and answered the subject by saying he needed more time to familiarize himself with the players.
Seems like that's at least two opportunities to get something down in print or video. He's an affable guy so it's not like the author would need to pry any substance out of him like they do with Crean.
As for the BBQ, I hope everyone enjoys it. It's another test to see how he does with the "regular people" and I'm sure it will be a lot of fun. However, if he doesn't discuss his coaching philosophy with the media I'm not sure any Joe Blow MU fan will get a real answer. Never hurts to try though. ;)
Quote from: MUBasketball on May 21, 2008, 12:35:44 PM
Well I'm with you on this one. It doesn't concern me that he hasn't talked about it, but I'd love to hear him talk about these things.
Why haven't we heard anything? Probably because there is ZERO talk of MU basketball this time of year. We are talking about a college hoops team in Milwaukee, WI. The talk right now is split between Brewers baseball and Packers football.
I'm slightly disappointed in Rosiak not having much for blogs on the JS. I can understand not having weekly articles in the paper. But it's a blog for crying out loud. It doesn't take up precious newspaper space. Why not give us updates every few days? Talk to coach about his style and report back.
Dennis Krause had the chance to on Monday, and never asked the question.
I don't blame Buzz for not talking about it, I blame the media for not asking him about it.
My recommendation? Everybody should try and go to the Texas BBQ in about a month. I'm sure Buzz will be easily accessible during this. I hope to go, and if so I hope to chat with him about it. Is anybody going for sure? I'd also love to meet some posters and discuss this hire.
We haven't heard much (or anything actually) about his coaching philosophy because he's NEVER been a head coach at this level before. Crean at Indiana doesn't have to...they pretty much know exactly what they are getting.
As for MU...Buzz is a total stab in the dark. No one on this board or anywhere for that matter can say he's a great coach or a bad one becuase no one really has a clue with this guy. None...and the "people who know basketball" don't really know either. Proof is in the results of which he has virtually none as a
head coach.
I hope and pray Buzz is the second comming of Al so he has my support for now, but lets get real here...unlike Indiana, no one here knows what our team is going to look like in a couple of years.
Thought this was interesting from April 6, 2003 when Pitt was looking for a coach. DeCourcy was asked about Tom Crean
DeCourcy dismissed Marquette's Tom Crean as a legitimate candidate, saying, "Frankly, it's not even a lateral move. His next move is to a country club, a big-time program where you don't have to scramble to recruit."
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on May 21, 2008, 04:04:43 PM
Has Harvey been banned? Why does his info now say guest?
As an 1982 Brewer fan, I would be deeply offended if Harvey was banned.
No, apparently he chose to delete his own account. (perhaps we should stop allowing people to delete their own accounts) :-\
Wouldn't be the first time though, around May 1 this long-time poster deleted his original account and started exclusively using the HarveysWallbangers account.
Not sure why though. Maybe it's a self-created witness protection program...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 21, 2008, 06:02:33 PM
No, apparently he chose to delete his own account. (perhaps we should stop allowing people to delete their own accounts) :-\
Wouldn't be the first time though, around May 1 this long-time poster deleted his original account and started exclusively using the HarveysWallbangers account.
Not sure why though. Maybe it's a self-created witness protection program...
So
that's what happened to PRN.... ha!
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 21, 2008, 08:56:40 PM
So that's what happened to PRN.... ha!
So PRN was posting as Harvey for like 3 weeks without any tirades about the nickname? No wonder he's in the witness protection program. :o
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 22, 2008, 07:57:35 AM
So PRN was posting as Harvey for like 3 weeks without any tirades about the nickname? No wonder he's in the witness protection program. :o
No joke... what happened to PRN?
QuoteWho is NOT supporting the coach? I don't know anyone that doesn't want Buzz Williams to succeed unless they are UW-Madison, UW-Milwaukee or other Big East fans. I don't know any MU fan that doesn't want this coach to succeed.
There is a notable difference between wanting an individual to succeed and actually supporting said individual. I would venture to estimate that close to all of the members on this board
want Buzz to succeed; however, I would hardly say that all the members are supportive of him.
I also asked what happened to PRN about a month ago. Got no response.
Quote from: nyg on May 22, 2008, 10:11:42 AM
I also asked what happened to PRN about a month ago. Got no response.
Just to be clear, the MUScoop moderators have had nothing (directly at least) to do with the disappearance of PuertoRicanNightmare.
He deleted his account around May 1 as far as I can tell. Since then, I believe he's been using the HarveysWallbangers alias, which is now (self) deleted too.
So, he may still be here in a new alias, but regardless I'm sure he's pleased with the attention, and that you guys care enough to ask :P
I just figured he was over on the Indiana boards using the alias IheartCrean.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 22, 2008, 11:42:57 AM
Just to be clear, the MUScoop moderators have had nothing (directly at least) to do with the disappearance of PuertoRicanNightmare.
He deleted his account around May 1 as far as I can tell. Since then, I believe he's been using the HarveysWallbangers alias, which is now (self) deleted too.
So, he may still be here in a new alias, but regardless I'm sure he's pleased with the attention, and that you guys care enough to ask :P
Is he also the "contact lens"?
To be honest, I found his threads to be interesting. Really enjoyed the week after TC bolted and he provided some humorous threads. Time to move on.
It is not an insult or cause for criticism if Buzz has not shared his strategic thinking publicly.
Perhaps it is evolving.
Maybe Buzz was just as appalled at our defensive shortcomings and has plans to make major changes in how we defend and would like his players to hear about if from him first.
Maybe he and his new staff are mulling changes in the way we attack (particularly against zones) and would like to see how our personnel adapt before dissussing it publicly.
In any event, let's give him the beneift of the doubt, after all, it has been like 6 weeks since the hire, he has a new staff and they may actually want to brainstorm some ideas before settling on specifics and proclaiming them to the public.
Hey, maybe they are so busy out recruiting that they haven't even gone down the strategy path yet, so theri is nothing to report.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 22, 2008, 11:42:57 AM
Just to be clear, the MUScoop moderators have had nothing (directly at least) to do with the disappearance of PuertoRicanNightmare.
He deleted his account around May 1 as far as I can tell. Since then, I believe he's been using the HarveysWallbangers alias, which is now (self) deleted too.
So, he may still be here in a new alias, but regardless I'm sure he's pleased with the attention, and that you guys care enough to ask :P
Yea, I was fearful to ask about him, because then he'd come back with something about being the most "in demand" poster.
:-\
I always respected his passion (couldn't question that)... but we disagreed on just about everything.
Now that Crean is gone, is posting not fun for him anymore?
Every hero needs a villain... without Crean, what is he supposed to do?
Quote from: 2002mualum on May 22, 2008, 01:49:31 PM
Every hero needs a villain... without Crean, what is he supposed to do?
Rip Cottingham a new one?
Quote from: ATWizJr on May 22, 2008, 01:22:57 PM
Maybe he and his new staff are mulling changes in the way we attack (particularly against zones) and would like to see how our personnel adapt before dissussing it publicly.
It's not a
lot of detail, but here's what Dominic said about Buzz's offense & defense (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2008/05/08/DOMINIC_JAMES_ENJOYING_THE_BUZZ)in an interview...
Quote`He's a workaholic and let's us know his every move," James added. "He's hungry."
James said he's expecting Williams, who spent one season as the head coach at New Orleans, to keep much of what Crean implemented – with a few changes.
``I know he's defensive-minded," James said. "He's also going to give us more freedom on the offensive end and isn't going to dictate everything He'll let the offense be more free-flowing."
Quote from: rocky_warrior on May 22, 2008, 02:05:51 PM
Rip Cottingham a new one?
Well, crap... there's plenty of company there
Quote from: Henry Sugar on May 22, 2008, 02:43:35 PM
Well, crap... there's plenty of company there
Even you, Henry. ;)
The Cottingham thing is valid (to a degree), but it's awfully early to judge.
Rican was like kin. I hope he reappears.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 22, 2008, 08:12:49 PM
Rican was like kin. I hope he reappears.
Strangely enough, I agree.
For a long time, though, PRN was posting both as PRN and as Harvey's Wallbangers.
I think that's creepy.
I read somewhere were James said that Buzz will not be as restrictive on offense as Crean was. I always thought one of Crean's problems was that he would run to many sets. I remember reading that Crean teams would learn upto 200 sets. It was also one of the reasons Crean did so poorly in March. At year end he would go conservative on offense. In my opinion he would coach not to lose instead of coaching to win. He did the same thing this year and almost lost to Kentucky. He let Stanford play a half court game and we lost. Both Kentucky and Stanford were suppose to have trouble with turnovers. Neither team turned the ball over much against MU. Stanford in their next game got blown out by Texas, who created a number of turnovers. We lost to Stanford because Crean turn the game into a game that was good for Stanford instead of playing the way we should have played. Hopefully, Buzz will be a players coach and let them play.
Quote from: bilsu on May 22, 2008, 10:15:15 PM
I read somewhere were James said that Buzz will not be as restrictive on offense as Crean was.
Somewhere? You mean like 8 posts up? ;D
The myth that Crean was a good x&o's guy is a mystery to me. Years ago, before 2003, I could not fathom why MU canned Deane for this guy. However, who could argue with the guy after 2003. He was a good practice coach and he could drill his players until they broke their ankles. However, he could never adjust in a game when they would come up against something new. Syracuse(2x), Tulsa, WVU, Kansas, Alabama, UAB. He was a good organizer, PR man and recruiter.
Buzz can do the crean thing - it just takes discipline and dedication. I believe his team of assistants with several years of experience will make up for any coaching skills that Crean brought to the table. I also believe Buzz is a much better recruiter. Time will tell, but that 2003 year really put crean on a pedestal. I think buzz has the opportunity to make the sweet 16 and crean only did that once.
mviale - you missed the most obvious example of embarrassing lack of in game adjustment. Huggy Bear threw a 1-3-1 at him and it looked like he had never seen it before.