Like many of us, I've remained obsession with MU hoops during this offseason (in the past, I've been "able" to keep it at bay until September or so), and have continued reading most of the threads on this other boards.
I really dig Cracked Sidewalks, and have appreciated the coverage of the many happenings this offseason.
But, unless my browser isn't correctly updating the CS website, there hasn't been a new update since Saturday, five days ago. Mon Dieu!
What's up folks? Anything more coming to keep us all continuing with the obsession?
I can answer some of that ..
First .. it's the off-season. Not a lot of news to share. NY Warrior is typically seeking out any news bits on a daily basis, but the well runs dry over the summer.
But on a personal note .. I have to say .. what happened on April 1st, and the week following .. was disturbing on many levels.
Not that I'm not a huge fan any more, but .. the team, the program, has changed so much, has changed its direction, altered its prospects in such a giant fashion. Like with any divorce, that "family" atmosphere isn't what it used to be, as dad ran off with another girl, took a bunch of uncles and kids with him. Now a bunch of new guys have moved into the house, and we have no idea if any of them are as good as the last bunch and the future is in serious doubt.
The air just doesn't smell as sweet, and my food doesn't taste as good any more. Yeah, yeah, "We Are Marquette" .. but it's Marquette v2.0 (or v9.0, depending on how long you've followed the team.) Or maybe it's Marquette v0.7, depending on how you look at where we are today.
My wife was at the Warrior Shoppe yesterday, came home .. she relayed some of the same sentiments. Like .. are we still big fans? Should I be buying more gold stuff? ?-(
Time heals all wounds. Time wounds all heels.
mug644, thanks for reading. I've just been lazy lately, but your post is a nice reminder.
Hilltopper, you should have put THAT up on Cracked Sidewalks.
To Hilltopper's Point --
To me, it was the events of April 8 that took a lot of excitement from the program. What an opportunity that was to step up, build a sense of the future and show tremendous commitment to the basketball program that is supported so faithfully. Instead, we were all left saying "Huh?"
If they set out to make an 100 percent uninspiring hire and sap energy from the fanbase, they hit the ball out of the ballpark.
I need some help. Just yesterday I tried to post a reply on Cracked Sidwalks and got confounded by the process (Internet illiterate present and accounted for, I know). The little questions about do I have a google nickname, etc. I could not answer. Is there womeplace on that web site where I can be walked through the steps?
Thanks in advance.
wildbill sb
Renewable energy IS homeland security
WOW!!
This is probably the most pathetic string I have ever read. It is amazing to me that people actually feel this way. As I have specualted in the past it must be the younger crowd that thinks Tom Crean was MU basketball. It's funny becuase I was much more disappointed when Kevin O'Neil left than when Crean left. My MU alum friends for the most part were not at all enamored with Crean. In fact the guy has simply underachieved since DWade left town. His recruiting following Dwades class was in fact so poor that the MU team was embarrassing to watch when Diener got hurt. I mean Dukiet was bad but Crean signed alot of recruits that made Dukiet recruits look like world beaters.
I guess the younger crowd feels like jilted lovers, maybe Tom Crean was their first girlfriend and they got dumped. Oh well that is basketball, some of us know that for every Kevin Oneill, Hank Raymonds, or tom crean that leaves another one is willing to step in. Marquette Basketball is a well known brand across the country that will continue to attract great talent on the court and sidelines and MU is bigger than any one coach.
Now I realize Tom Crean liked to take credit for the BE invite, the Al being built, etc, etc...and apparently many people ate that up like a free dinner. But as apparently only experience will teach you that was all part of his propaganda machine. Was it Dave Leitao that got Depaul invited?? Sorry kids it was MU that got MU invited!! Crean stated at IU that he raised attendance 70% at MU, another propagandist lie. Kevin ONeill's teams had the all time average attendance per game until just recently, Crean's teams had more attendance but much of that had to do with him having more home games than ever.
Anyway, get over your whining. Get out from under the covers and turn the lights on take a shower and shave. Those of us that have been thru Al, Hank, Rick, Dukiet, Oneil, Deane and Cream have seen MU have trmendous success under all of them but one. Most if us see this as a tremendous opportunity for MU to advance even further toward the mountain top. Crean's coaching and recruiting accumen had simply taken us as far as he was able. He will do fine at IU in time, will that be good enough for IU fans? Well let's hope not.
In the mean time Buzz really has a huge percentage of the fanbase extremely optimistic about taking that next step. Lastly, apparently some of you did not know Crean like myself and others did, that guy was the biggest %$#&* I have ever met and I have known all the MU coaches and coaches from all around as a matter of fact just had a long talk with the BBall director at IMG academy about all things BBall including Jared Swopshire just the oother day. Any way Crean was such a %$#^&* that IMO he had to go. Becoming a real problem for the univeristy, personally I did not like him from day 1 and it was only reinforced time after time, I have said I will not tell those stories on a forum of this type. But then 7-8 years into a teure and you are signing guys like kinsella, Hazel, cristopherson, etc. Additionally, the apologists said "you cannot recruit big men" , Well Oneill and even Deane to a degree were able to and they never had the budget or luxuries Crean did. Kevin Oneill practicing in the Old Gym and playing in the MCC recruited Creans freaking socks off!!
And then your coaching is down right bad. Working hard is overrated, everyone that is succesful works hard, that is all MU did!!, everything else was head scratching. Crean's defense got worse every year. Very hard for those around during the Oneil and Deane tenure to watch "MU Defense" which wasAa national perrenial staple, literlly disintigrate under Crean. His offense was abyssmal, you have a perennially undersized team (see recruiting) yet we stand around and have no ability to beat a zone. Additonally poor shooters with terrible form never get better or improve thier form. It's time to move on.
Thank You Mr.Hayward, I agree with your excellent post and would add that I am actually enthusiastic about next year. Then again, I am old as my screen nickname suggests.
:'(
Quote from: mug644 on May 08, 2008, 08:08:27 AM
Like many of us, I've remained obsession with MU hoops during this offseason (in the past, I've been "able" to keep it at bay until September or so), and have continued reading most of the threads on this other boards.
I really dig Cracked Sidewalks, and have appreciated the coverage of the many happenings this offseason.
But, unless my browser isn't correctly updating the CS website, there hasn't been a new update since Saturday, five days ago. Mon Dieu!
What's up folks? Anything more coming to keep us all continuing with the obsession?
Will get back into it......been out of the country on work for a while, still buried with that garbage
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 08, 2008, 09:58:51 AM
WOW!!
This is probably the most pathetic string I have ever read. It is amazing to me that people actually feel this way. As I have specualted in the past it must be the younger crowd that thinks Tom Crean was MU basketball. It's funny becuase I was much more disappointed when Kevin O'Neil left than when Crean left. My MU alum friends for the most part were not at all enamored with Crean. In fact the guy has simply underachieved since DWade left town. His recruiting following Dwades class was in fact so poor that the MU team was embarrassing to watch when Diener got hurt. I mean Dukiet was bad but Crean signed alot of recruits that made Dukiet recruits look like world beaters.
I guess the younger crowd feels like jilted lovers, maybe Tom Crean was their first girlfriend and they got dumped. Oh well that is basketball, some of us know that for every Kevin Oneill, Hank Raymonds, or tom crean that leaves another one is willing to step in. Marquette Basketball is a well known brand across the country that will continue to attract great talent on the court and sidelines and MU is bigger than any one coach.
Now I realize Tom Crean liked to take credit for the BE invite, the Al being built, etc, etc...and apparently many people ate that up like a free dinner. But as apparently only experience will teach you that was all part of his propaganda machine. Was it Dave Leitao that got Depaul invited?? Sorry kids it was MU that got MU invited!! Crean stated at IU that he raised attendance 70% at MU, another propagandist lie. Kevin ONeill's teams had the all time average attendance per game until just recently, Crean's teams had more attendance but much of that had to do with him having more home games than ever.
Anyway, get over your whining. Get out from under the covers and turn the lights on take a shower and shave. Those of us that have been thru Al, Hank, Rick, Dukiet, Oneil, Deane and Cream have seen MU have trmendous success under all of them but one. Most if us see this as a tremendous opportunity for MU to advance even further toward the mountain top. Crean's coaching and recruiting accumen had simply taken us as far as he was able. He will do fine at IU in time, will that be good enough for IU fans? Well let's hope not.
In the mean time Buzz really has a huge percentage of the fanbase extremely optimistic about taking that next step. Lastly, apparently some of you did not know Crean like myself and others did, that guy was the biggest %$#&* I have ever met and I have known all the MU coaches and coaches from all around as a matter of fact just had a long talk with the BBall director at IMG academy about all things BBall including Jared Swopshire just the oother day. Any way Crean was such a %$#^&* that IMO he had to go. Becoming a real problem for the univeristy, personally I did not like him from day 1 and it was only reinforced time after time, I have said I will not tell those stories on a forum of this type. But then 7-8 years into a teure and you are signing guys like kinsella, Hazel, cristopherson, etc. Additionally, the apologists said "you cannot recruit big men" , Well Oneill and even Deane to a degree were able to and they never had the budget or luxuries Crean did. Kevin Oneill practicing in the Old Gym and playing in the MCC recruited Creans freaking socks off!!
And then your coaching is down right bad. Working hard is overrated, everyone that is succesful works hard, that is all MU did!!, everything else was head scratching. Crean's defense got worse every year. Very hard for those around during the Oneil and Deane tenure to watch "MU Defense" which wasAa national perrenial staple, literlly disintigrate under Crean. His offense was abyssmal, you have a perennially undersized team (see recruiting) yet we stand around and have no ability to beat a zone. Additonally poor shooters with terrible form never get better or improve thier form. It's time to move on.
Brevity is a virtue.
I don't think that people want Crean back, they just wish that he left with more tact.
The issue at hand is that very little is known about Buzz. We don't really know how he works. We don't know how he's going to coach our guys. We don't know who he and his staff are trying to recruit or what kind of team we're going to have a few years down the road.
Nobody on these forums is arguing that Crean was a good coach and we needed him. It's a simple fact that the near future of the bball team is in tumult and the fans are waiting with bated breath for some (hopefully great) news of who Buzz and his staff are going to recruit over the next few years and where they're going to take our team.
Apprehensive fans have to be something that're expected in times such as these.
First .. I was not terribly sorry to see Crean go, as I wrote before. I believe MU took an unnecessary risk in hiring Buzz after "searching" for 3 days, a guy who not one D1 school was looking at for HC. I am optimistic about next year, but that's because I think Fr. Wild as coach could get 25 wins with our 2008-9 roster. It's 2009 and beyond that concerns me.
QuoteIn the mean time Buzz really has a huge percentage of the fanbase extremely optimistic about taking that next step.
"huge percentage" .. "extremely optimistic"? Disagree. ~10 days after Buzz was hired, after passions were more muted, we ran a poll that still had Buzz as a "Bad Hire" at 52%. Sure, 48% thinks it's not a bad hire, but no doubt, not all of them are "extremely optimistic". (sample of ~600 voters.)
If you said a quarter of our fanbase is "extremely optimistic" .. maybe. Clearly, a "huge percentage" of those who follow the team, post on fourms, and vote in polls, are not there.
MR.HAYWARD --
Where in this thread does anybody claim they were sorry to see Crean go? I think a lot of people, including me, where glad to see him leave. I'm anxious for Indiana fans to catch on to his utter BS.
The apprehension is with the guy they hired to replace him! We're getting reports of crying at his previous stop, of crawling on the sidelines on his hands and knees, of poor defensive teams.
People are wondering why Marquette chose this guy to lead our team when he really isn't qualified. He may turn out to be great, but we hired a guy who does not have the resume to lead a Big East team. That's why people are not as enthusiastic as they should be.
It's got nothing to do with Crean and everything to do with a missed opportunity to hire somebody to provide excitement.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 08, 2008, 10:37:59 AM
Well then skat I guess you missed the whole point of my post. MU is bigger than Tom Crean!! What did TC do that is irreplaceable?? What did he do that any other decent coach in America cannot!!!???? Oh you mean because he told everyone how great he was?? Is that what you will miss?? or will you miss his recruiting prowess, the recruiting that has produced the worst front court in the BE 3 years in a row!! Will you miss the post season sucesss?? Will you miss the first round conference flameouts? Will you miss the first round Nit and NCAA flameouts versus lower seeded teams? Will you miss the late game execution that consistently failed to even get a shot off?, or if we did it was a terrible one? Will you miss the terrible defense?, will you miss the terrible rebounding?? Will you miss the absolute terrible offense that emphasizes atanding around versus movement, that empahsizes dribbling versus passing, that never took advantage of matchups or went after players in foul trouble. Will you miss an offensive and defensive team that consitantly looked lost and played with zero intuition?? Will you miss a team that rarely went to the free throw line or one that settled for shots time and time again??
How's that for brevity!!??
I guess I am apprehensive too!!! Apprehensive to know what it will fel like again to see ateam that is not undersized every year or to watch ateam and a coach that does look freaking lost on the side lines or on the court!
My goodness how things have changed in Milwaukee!!! kevin oneil used to complain that MU was the worst job in the world because everyone wanted him to have success like Al. And that winning conference titles, having players of the year, and making sweet Sixteens were not good enough.
Now MU loses a coach who could not even sniff that type of success in the last 5 years and people are questioning their fanhood and direction of the program.
Oh my goodness....this sets up real well for Buzz to acheive deity staus in short order. My how things have changed.
Maybe people are right and recent Mu grads with the new campus etc are indeed soft.
Once again you typed a lot without saying anything.
Luckily I can respond by quoting myself since your reading comprehension isn't quite up to par
Quote from: Skatastrophy
I don't think that people want Crean back
...
Nobody on these forums is arguing that Crean was a good coach and we needed him.
To reiterate:
1. No one wanted Crean to stick around.
2. Nobody is complaining that he left
The complaints surround *how* he left.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD
How's that for brevity!!??
That wasn't brief, it was verbose... again.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Abrief&btnG=Search
That's enough with the fighting on the Internet for one day :-\
Mu hilltopper- you stated...
huge percentage" .. "extremely optimistic"? Disagree. ~10 days after Buzz was hired, after passions were more muted, we ran a poll that still had Buzz as a "Bad Hire" at 52%. Sure, 48% thinks it's not a bad hire, but no doubt, not all of them are "extremely optimistic". (sample of ~600 voters.)
If you said a quarter of our fanbase is "extremely optimistic" .. maybe. Clearly, a "huge percentage" of those who follow the team, post on fourms, and vote in polls, are not there.
ok i cannotdisagree with how people voted...but also understand your audience probably trnds younger. and my pool was people in their late 30's to mid 40's who have seen turnover and realize recruiting is the lifeblood of any program and saw Crean not getting that done. After the fiascos of 2004 and 2005, one could argue that DJ saved Crean's job. Jerel and Wes and others have been good, but with no DJ at the point the last 3 years and in fact someone less good and we do not make the last 3 Ncaa's then how do you feel? Now yes we did have him but even then we were within a fine line of not qualifying even with him, a loss here or there that last two years and we do not go. MU should be better than that in year 5-9 of a tenure.
Also lets not forget JSonline on line poll that had "Crean is Gone Glad or Sad" and 46% said "Glad".
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 08, 2008, 10:46:45 AM
Also lets not forget JSonline on line poll that had "Crean is Gone Glad or Sad" and 46% said "Glad".
that does not mean they are all overjoyed by the replacement that has come in...
MR.HAYWARD --
Where in this thread does anybody claim they were sorry to see Crean go? I think a lot of people, including me, where glad to see him leave. I'm anxious for Indiana fans to catch on to his utter BS.
The apprehension is with the guy they hired to replace him! We're getting reports of crying at his previous stop, of crawling on the sidelines on his hands and knees, of poor defensive teams.
People are wondering why Marquette chose this guy to lead our team when he really isn't qualified. He may turn out to be great, but we hired a guy who does not have the resume to lead a Big East team. That's why people are not as enthusiastic as they should be.
It's got nothing to do with Crean and everything to do with a missed opportunity to hire somebody to provide excitement.
Harvey - 2 things...1. I think alot of people are still in the the mode of "waht can we do with out our Tommy" ...now that has been muted by the way he left...but many people especially the younger crowd feel crean was savior.
2. My real point is Crean really did not do that much IMO, and that he was not that good of a coach. therefore, it is my belief that Buzz does not really have that big of shoes to fill. people are expecting a dropoff and i do not feel that is realistic. It is contradictory to say "crean was not all that...but I am worried the program will fall off under Buzz", completely contradictory.
Oh and to Skat sorry my sarcasm went over your head. ::)
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on May 08, 2008, 09:03:45 AM
To Hilltopper's Point --
To me, it was the events of April 8 that took a lot of excitement from the program. What an opportunity that was to step up, build a sense of the future and show tremendous commitment to the basketball program that is supported so faithfully. Instead, we were all left saying "Huh?"
If they set out to make an 100 percent uninspiring hire and sap energy from the fanbase, they hit the ball out of the ballpark.
Co-sign.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 08, 2008, 09:58:51 AM
WOW!!
This is probably the most pathetic string I have ever read. It is amazing to me that people actually feel this way. As I have specualted in the past it must be the younger crowd that thinks Tom Crean was MU basketball. It's funny becuase I was much more disappointed when Kevin O'Neil left than when Crean left. My MU alum friends for the most part were not at all enamored with Crean. In fact the guy has simply underachieved since DWade left town. His recruiting following Dwades class was in fact so poor that the MU team was embarrassing to watch when Diener got hurt. I mean Dukiet was bad but Crean signed alot of recruits that made Dukiet recruits look like world beaters.
Eloquent, Dude. I couldn't stand the turd since the FF. He should kiss Wade's little pinky each day for putting him in the position he's at now in life.
I guess the younger crowd feels like jilted lovers, maybe Tom Crean was their first girlfriend and they got dumped. Oh well that is basketball, some of us know that for every Kevin Oneill, Hank Raymonds, or tom crean that leaves another one is willing to step in. Marquette Basketball is a well known brand across the country that will continue to attract great talent on the court and sidelines and MU is bigger than any one coach.
Now I realize Tom Crean liked to take credit for the BE invite, the Al being built, etc, etc...and apparently many people ate that up like a free dinner. But as apparently only experience will teach you that was all part of his propaganda machine. Was it Dave Leitao that got Depaul invited?? Sorry kids it was MU that got MU invited!! Crean stated at IU that he raised attendance 70% at MU, another propagandist lie. Kevin ONeill's teams had the all time average attendance per game until just recently, Crean's teams had more attendance but much of that had to do with him having more home games than ever.
Anyway, get over your whining. Get out from under the covers and turn the lights on take a shower and shave. Those of us that have been thru Al, Hank, Rick, Dukiet, Oneil, Deane and Cream have seen MU have trmendous success under all of them but one. Most if us see this as a tremendous opportunity for MU to advance even further toward the mountain top. Crean's coaching and recruiting accumen had simply taken us as far as he was able. He will do fine at IU in time, will that be good enough for IU fans? Well let's hope not.
In the mean time Buzz really has a huge percentage of the fanbase extremely optimistic about taking that next step. Lastly, apparently some of you did not know Crean like myself and others did, that guy was the biggest %$#&* I have ever met and I have known all the MU coaches and coaches from all around as a matter of fact just had a long talk with the BBall director at IMG academy about all things BBall including Jared Swopshire just the oother day. Any way Crean was such a %$#^&* that IMO he had to go. Becoming a real problem for the univeristy, personally I did not like him from day 1 and it was only reinforced time after time, I have said I will not tell those stories on a forum of this type. But then 7-8 years into a teure and you are signing guys like kinsella, Hazel, cristopherson, etc. Additionally, the apologists said "you cannot recruit big men" , Well Oneill and even Deane to a degree were able to and they never had the budget or luxuries Crean did. Kevin Oneill practicing in the Old Gym and playing in the MCC recruited Creans freaking socks off!!
And then your coaching is down right bad. Working hard is overrated, everyone that is succesful works hard, that is all MU did!!, everything else was head scratching. Crean's defense got worse every year. Very hard for those around during the Oneil and Deane tenure to watch "MU Defense" which wasAa national perrenial staple, literlly disintigrate under Crean. His offense was abyssmal, you have a perennially undersized team (see recruiting) yet we stand around and have no ability to beat a zone. Additonally poor shooters with terrible form never get better or improve thier form. It's time to move on.
Much as I dislike the manner in how Crean departed the MU program, the one thought that has stuck with me is that he hired Buzz with the thought that he (TC) was going to leave MU sooner than later and that Buzz could be his replacement from the inside ( Buckley, Seltzer or Rab would not have been viable candidates ). Especially when one thinks about the Texas recruiting scenario. Crean realy was leaving himself open for petential issues if Buzz had left before him say this year or next? One does have to think that Buzz may have known or guessed something in coming to MU over Kentucky and Gillispie...? Food for thought. For MU_Hilltopper, Buzz may well be a "diamond in the rough". Don't crucify him for his New Orleans days as I think he learned a lot from what turned out to be a bad career move.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on May 08, 2008, 10:46:45 AM
ok i cannotdisagree with how people voted...but also understand your audience probably trnds younger. and my pool was people in their late 30's to mid 40's who have seen turnover and realize recruiting is the lifeblood of any program and saw Crean not getting that done.
Also lets not forget JSonline on line poll that had "Crean is Gone Glad or Sad" and 46% said "Glad".
Actually, CS's readership is right there in the age 30-40 bracket. Just ran a little poll .. 4% students, 41% are in their 20s, but 53% are over 30 years old. So at least half lived through the Dukiet years. That's a pretty decent voter pool of fans, and closely matches your 30-40s group.
And again .. I will guess a majority is "over" Crean leaving, or are outright glad he's gone, as the JS poll suggests. I am one of them, excepting for the process of hiring a new coach, and its end result.
As I suggested, and others agreed .. there's a lot of people out there whose excitement level is deflated significantly. Some because Crean is gone, but most because we didn't hire a coach who was in "our" top 5, top 10, even top 20 targets, and the national media (as well as many others) have painted MU's decision as "panic". That's not where we were supposed to be. We were supposed to be a Top 25 program with top facilities in a top conference, with .. drumroll .. a top head coach position, coveted by many of the highly regarded HC's in the nation.
Quote from: Nukem2 on May 08, 2008, 03:56:03 PM
the one thought that has stuck with me is that he hired Buzz with the thought that he (TC) was going to leave MU sooner than later and that Buzz could be his replacement from the inside ( Buckley, Seltzer or Rab would not have been viable candidates ).
You may be right, but I don't see that was why he hired Buzz. To me, he hired Buzz, because as of late, the former coach was getting his butt kicked on the recruiting trail, and he needed to widen his recruiting base.