Just another one that was on MU's list. A lot of guys thinking they would rather play for Crean, regardless if they are going on probation
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_9161570?source=rss
In October, Jones was down to Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, Marquette, Georgia Tech, New Mexico State, Kansas, Indiana, Illinois and Texas.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 05, 2008, 07:12:53 PM
Just another one that was on MU's list. A lot of guys thinking they would rather play for Crean, regardless if they are going on probation
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_9161570?source=rss
See, I just don't get it with all these kids commiting to IU because of the availability of playing time. That's fine, but what if you are getting playing time on a team that isn't allowed to go to the NCAA tournament for at least two of your years there?? Was the playing time really worth it?? ::)
Quote from: muguru on May 05, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
See, I just don't get it with all these kids commiting to IU because of the availability of playing time. That's fine, but what if you are getting playing time on a team that isn't allowed to go to the NCAA tournament for at least two of your years there?? Was the playing time really worth it?? ::)
Probably because they're unlikely to get 2 years NCAA ban. I would be surprised if they get more than 1 and they might not even get that one year.
why are you all obssesed with IU recruiting situation? Yes maybe he had Marquette as medium interest but I think half the people here cant get over Crean at Indiana. If you haven't heard it already Tom Crean will succeed as a recruiter at Indiana. Here at MU all he had to show was Dwade. Now that he is at a top ten historic college program like IU recruiting for that place will be really easy.
Dont get me wrong, Crean should stay away from the recruits he was going after while he was here like Creek (that really pissed me off) but if we constantly complain about Crean success recruiting at IU we are going to be a depressed group of fans.
Plus for all the talent he gets he still will probably never get the program to the final four. We know the lapses and faults of Crean the coach all too well.
Take rest in the fact that they will not get to the tournament this year and that they lost half their team. I have no respect left for Crean but the idea of constantly watching for IU updates of guys who switched from MU to IU is bad and it needs to stop. Lets get some positive things up on this board for once.
Nothing obsessive about it at all, he was a MU target for quite some time...it also dispells the notion Crean won't be going into Illinois. Hell, he went right into Champaign to get this kid.
I'd love to report on some MU recruits that have committed.....do we have anything to report?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 05, 2008, 07:36:55 PM
Nothing obsessive about it at all, he was a MU target for quite some time...it also dispells the notion Crean won't be going into Illinois. Hell, he went right into Champaign to get this kid.
I'd love to report on some MU recruits that have committed.....do we have anything to report?
For all the Crean bashers out there, he certainly is getting the commits. TC has hit the ground running in bloomington. Seems pretty quiet on the MU front so far.
Well, it's a different situation. Crean is not respecting people he recruited while at Marquette. We didn't even know who our coach was a month prior. So I guess, none of this should be any surprise. It will be an uphill battle. Cottingham didn't hire a former HC that already had recruiting feelers out there. Our situation is that our HC left and he is taking all the recruits with him and now we have his assistant scrambling to get a committment. If we get a decent recruiting class next year it will be a minor miracle. You heard it first although I hope I am dead wrong.
Quote from: NCMUFan on May 05, 2008, 07:48:54 PM
If we get a decent recruiting class next year it will be a minor miracle.
NCMUFan have hope. I have a strategy that could give Marquette success in the 2009 recruiting class. Take a look at the Thoughts on Buzz's Recruiting Strategy in '09 post
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9001.msg75677;topicseen#new (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=9001.msg75677;topicseen#new)
Quote from: NCMUFan on May 05, 2008, 07:48:54 PM
Well, it's a different situation. Crean is not respecting people he recruited while at Marquette. We didn't even know who our coach was a month prior. So I guess, none of this should be any surprise. It will be an uphill battle. Cottingham didn't hire a former HC that already had recruiting feelers out there. Our situation is that our HC left and he is taking all the recruits with him and now we have his assistant scrambling to get a committment. If we get a decent recruiting class next year it will be a minor miracle. You heard it first although I hope I am dead wrong.
It is a different situation, but not for the reason you state. It is a different situation because he has a lot of spots to fill.
Quote from: jce on May 05, 2008, 09:39:29 PM
It is a different situation, but not for the reason you state. It is a different situation because he has a lot of spots to fill.
Uhhh.....so do we.
Our starting guards for November 2009 will be 2 of Maurice Acker, David Cubillan, or Jimmy Butler. Tons of opportunity.
Quote from: muguru on May 05, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
See, I just don't get it with all these kids commiting to IU because of the availability of playing time. That's fine, but what if you are getting playing time on a team that isn't allowed to go to the NCAA tournament for at least two of your years there?? Was the playing time really worth it?? ::)
We're talking about
phone calls here, not cash etc. Sampson got ran out b/c it was his 2nd (or 3rd), it's not Indiana's. They acted quickly and hired a squeaky clean coach. The NCAA will be very very lenient with them.
This is EXACTLY why TC endorsed Buzz for a coach and MU bit. TC knew Buzz would be overmatched at he could get the kids he was recruiting. This is one year of recruits and TC outrecruited Buzz. Unfortunately the recruiting he did was with Doc Rivers and Cottingham on endorsing Buzz.
Is everyone failing to remember that Verdell Jones is not a top prospect? He's at best just inside the top 150 in the country and was being recruited as a back up plan by most of the major schools that were after him. If Crean had signed him for MU people would be b*tching about about how he needs to set his sights higher and get top 50 kids, not settle for top 150 kids. This is no big loss.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 05, 2008, 07:36:55 PM
...it also dispells the notion Crean won't be going into Illinois.
If someone actually said this they were/are nutty. Crean being at Indiana and not going into Illinois is ludicrous. Beyond the State of Indiana, historically IU's 2nd most fertile ground for recruits has long been Illinois.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on May 06, 2008, 08:44:47 AM
This is EXACTLY why TC endorsed Buzz for a coach and MU bit. TC knew Buzz would be overmatched at he could get the kids he was recruiting. This is one year of recruits and TC outrecruited Buzz. Unfortunately the recruiting he did was with Doc Rivers and Cottingham on endorsing Buzz.
This doesn't make sense. Why not take Buzz with you to IU and then you have NO competition. I realize that Buzz was offered but declined. Then the next best choice is to have a complete outsider come in. He would not even have a list or phone numbers of current MU recruits. He would work his own guys leaving MU completely out of the picture.
Further, I cannot beleive the Crean thought the recruits he was getting now were so critical that he needed to sabotage MU by "coning" them into hiring Buzz. Creek, Williams and Copobianco are good players but they are hardly programs changers. IU will be last in the big ten next season and these freshman in 2009, combined with what they have, is still not a ranked team in two years. Crean is still three years away from having IU ranked, if then.
Also, did you see te Creek comitted to IU and admitted he has yet to set foot in the state yet. Hopes to visit IU soon. Nick Williams and Creek were following Crean to IU even if MU hired Roy Williams instead of Buzz Williams. They were lost the day Crean left and nothing Buzz or anyone else could so was going to change that.
Now, if Crean "conned" MU into getting Buzz as he knew that would change Jamil Wilson's thinking, then you might have something. So far, this is not the case.
Quote from: bleedbluegold03 on May 05, 2008, 07:32:19 PM
I have no respect left for Crean
I realize that you are not the first to express this type sentiment, but I still do not understand it. Besides not telling his players properly -- and I consider that a HUGE deal, and one I imagine Crean seriously regrets -- what has he done to lose your respect?
He took a job at a better program for more money. Who amongst us would not have done the same thing?
QuoteNick Williams and Creek were following Crean to IU even if MU hired Roy Williams instead of Buzz Williams
Id be willing to bet a lot of money that Williams would have honered his commitment if Roy Williams was hired at MU...
Another MU84---In addition to TC knowing he could outrecruit Buzz he is concerned about legacy. The odds of Buzz building on TC's foundation are not extremely high. If Buzz fails it makes TC body of work look even better.
Al, and I LOVE AL, had an ego and Hank not living up to Al made his legacy bigger. TC has similar interest in legacy.
In regards to recruiting this year I agree with you. TC couldn't care less about this years recruits other than he needs bodies. But, long term TC will recruit in the same areas that Buzz will. Current indications show that is a man versus a boy. Thus...TC is licking his chops that Buzz is the competition.
TC went through assistants every year. All Buzz was another one on the list. If Buzz does not get MU job he probably does end up at IU. No offense to Buzz but there was not a waiting line in front of his house of AD's holding out contracts.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on May 06, 2008, 09:26:09 AM
Another MU84---In addition to TC knowing he could outrecruit Buzz he is concerned about legacy. The odds of Buzz building on TC's foundation are not extremely high. If Buzz fails it makes TC body of work look even better.
There has been talk of this over the last couple of weeks.
Crean knows he left a great team but he also knows that Buzz will have a Turgeon-like season in that if MU wins, Crean will get some credit since he brought a lot of the team in whereas if MU falters from where they've been the previous three years, the blame will fall directly on Buzz' coaching.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on May 06, 2008, 09:26:09 AM
Another MU84---In addition to TC knowing he could outrecruit Buzz he is concerned about legacy. The odds of Buzz building on TC's foundation are not extremely high. If Buzz fails it makes TC body of work look even better.
I guess you have never had to concern yourself with a legacy, because this is the opposite of what you do.
Crean is going to finish in last place in the big ten next year. What better way to keep the IU morale high by watching MU go to the final four (or do very well). That way Crean can say "this will be us shortly."
Crean has too many friends and fond memories of Milwaukee to want it to fail. Ever leave a job? Did you want those at the "old shop" to fail?"
If Buzz becomes thenext coach K, it argues that crean is also the master-teacher. You hear him brag about Darrin Horn in his press conference?
Another MU---I wish I had the kindness in my heart that it appears you have. I have never spent five years dying to leave a job and lie everyday saying I wanted to be there. I respect your view of the story, just politely disagree.
Hopefully you are right that TC has fond memories and friends here. What I got from my time with him was a different story. I always thought he had 1.6 million friends and hoping to have 2.4 million friends elsewhere.
My bad!!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 06, 2008, 10:11:05 AM
If Buzz becomes thenext coach K, it argues that crean is also the master-teacher. You hear him brag about Darrin Horn in his press conference?
Master-teacher?
Buzz worked with Crean for 9 months.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on May 06, 2008, 08:29:20 AM
They acted quickly and hired a squeaky clean coach.
You're part right..
(http://www.noblepest.com/images/brown-rat.jpg)
Quote from: Coach Norman Dale on May 06, 2008, 08:57:33 AM
If someone actually said this they were/are nutty. Crean being at Indiana and not going into Illinois is ludicrous. Beyond the State of Indiana, historically IU's 2nd most fertile ground for recruits has long been Illinois.
I agree, that's why when a few folks said it I was floored.
Quote from: bma725 on May 06, 2008, 08:56:18 AM
Is everyone failing to remember that Verdell Jones is not a top prospect? He's at best just inside the top 150 in the country and was being recruited as a back up plan by most of the major schools that were after him. If Crean had signed him for MU people would be b*tching about about how he needs to set his sights higher and get top 50 kids, not settle for top 150 kids. This is no big loss.
Yes, people would bitch because he's a guard and because he's not a top 100 kid....though he is considered a guy that has come on recently.
On the other hand, this kid had offers from
IU
Georgetown
Minny
Kentucky
Tennessee
Virginia
Southern Illinois
Illinois
He's a nice player
http://www.midstatehoops.com/players/profiles/2008/verdell_jones.html
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=42815&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d42815
I can hardly wait till Buzz gets his first "nice" player out of HS with no association with Crean. Seems like I have this deep desire to truely believe we don't need Crean and hence the "See Ya" will really feel good.
I hear this guy is one of the best PGs in Minnesota - sorry for yawning.
Quote from: mviale on May 06, 2008, 02:14:05 PM
I hear this guy is one of the best PGs in Minnesota - sorry for yawning.
He's from Illinois.
yawn
Quote from: NCMUFan on May 06, 2008, 12:04:31 PM
I can hardly wait till Buzz gets his first "nice" player out of HS with no association with Crean.
Jimmy Butler?
Quote from: nola03 on May 06, 2008, 10:34:11 AM
Master-teacher?
Buzz worked with Crean for 9 months.
Doesn't matter, he will get credit
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 06, 2008, 09:44:30 PM
Doesn't matter, he will get credit
No he won't. Buzz has had nearly a different job each year for the last 8-10 years. If anyone were to receive credit, it would be Billy Gillispie who Buzz seems to rely on for quite a bit.
Quote from: nola03 on May 06, 2008, 10:13:14 PM
No he won't. Buzz has had nearly a different job each year for the last 8-10 years. If anyone were to receive credit, it would be Billy Gillispie who Buzz seems to rely on for quite a bit.
I sincerely hope we will have a lengthy and heated debate next spring about who gets the credit for the sucess of Buzz.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 07, 2008, 08:09:04 AM
I sincerely hope we will have a lengthy and heated debate next spring about who gets the credit for the sucess of Buzz.
I think we're confusing things.
You wrote Crean as the "master-teacher" for Buzz. To me, that means you see Buzz as being a part of the Tom Crean coaching tree. Buckley is questionable but Kowalczyk and Horn are on Crean's tree.
Just as Buckley is questionable so is Buzz. By all readings, Buzz has learned his trade and made his connections from Gillispie as his mentor. Therefore, Gillispie is the one who should get credit as Buzz' "master-teacher".
Now, our confusion comes in because you referenced next season. I think what you are saying is Crean will get credit for next season's success and as an off-shoot could be considered the "teacher" to Buzz because of that success. To me, that doesn't hold water because we could have hired the jackass that carries the Bedouin leader in Morocco and still won 25 games and finish top 5 in the Big East.
Quote from: muguru on May 05, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
See, I just don't get it with all these kids commiting to IU because of the availability of playing time. That's fine, but what if you are getting playing time on a team that isn't allowed to go to the NCAA tournament for at least two of your years there?? Was the playing time really worth it?? ::)
I'm late getting in on this thread, but I didn't see anybody notice this comment. For all of us that complained that Taylor said playing right away was an issue, but then ultimately choosing Kansas where he's likely to have less playing time that he ultimately would have at MU. He's clearly choosing a name like Kentucky (and, perhaps, quite understandably going with a coach who just won a national championship), while Jones (who happens to have been to the Final Four) is choosing a coach that can guarantee lots of playing time. Both picked their schools over MU. Read into it whatever you want, but I think that different kids have different reasons for picking schools. It doesn't make too much sense trying to figure it out or second-guess it.