http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080424/OPINION03/804240305
doesnt look good for us
Quote from: mviale on April 24, 2008, 12:56:36 AM
doesnt look good for us
I'm sure Buzz will save the day
Quote from: mviale on April 24, 2008, 12:56:36 AM
doesnt look good for us
What in the hell did you take from that article that makes you say "doesn't look good for us"?? Did you ever stop to think that this is a kid that wants to make sure he sees all the schools he's going to visit to make sure he makes the right decision?? Or what about the fact that he isn't going to take an official to MU because you are only allowed so many visits and he's been to MU so many times in the past that he doesn't want to waste an official on going somewhere he has already been too numerous times?? >:(
Or maybe it's because he has a strong desire to stay close to home??
Geez, just relax people. MU is still a VERY viable option for Jamil and everyone else is playing catch up to MU right now.
Lets see how Korie Lucious likes sitting on the bench, subbing for Kalin Lucas all next year. Then tells Wilson how great it is. My worry is UCLA and it's beautiful campus, weather, playing time and cheerleaders.
maybe we should send him that story about how likely it is that California is going to get hit with a big quake in the next 35 years.
Quote from: muguru on April 24, 2008, 05:19:17 AM
What in the hell did you take from that article that makes you say "doesn't look good for us"?? Did you ever stop to think that this is a kid that wants to make sure he sees all the schools he's going to visit to make sure he makes the right decision?? Or what about the fact that he isn't going to take an official to MU because you are only allowed so many visits and he's been to MU so many times in the past that he doesn't want to waste an official on going somewhere he has already been too numerous times?? >:(
Or maybe it's because he has a strong desire to stay close to home??
Geez, just relax people. MU is still a VERY viable option for Jamil and everyone else is playing catch up to MU right now.
Move along people -- nothing to see here!
Just because Crean bolted for Indiana [which is now an "option"] and MU scoured the country in order to land Buzz Williams [who?] doesn't mean there's any reason to be concerned that Wilson is also being recruited by the likes of Izzo, Ryan, Self, et al.
Just another reason to scratch our collective heads over MU's decision to hire the lowest profile coach available.
As much as I would like to see Jamil Wilson come to Marquette, I have to feel a lot of folks are just setting themselves up to be disappointed like Shumpert.
Not going to be a popular opinion on here, but...
It appears that Wilson's father will be very involved in his decision. Clearly, this kid has NBA potential. If this was your kid, what in Buzz's experience would give you the confidence to entrust your son to Buzz? Absolutely, nothing that I can see. Sure, we've got great facilities, play in a great conference and get on TV a lot. But we've got a coach who can only describe his style of basketball as "winning." If one of my top concerns was making sure someone prepared my son for the NBA, I would not send him to play for Buzz -- at least not yet. Thank goodness Wilson has said he won't choose until the spring of 2009. By then, at least, Buzz will have a body of coaching work to point to.
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
Quote from: NCMUFan on April 24, 2008, 08:42:46 AM
As much as I would like to see Jamil Wilson come to Marquette, I have to feel a lot of folks are just setting themselves up to be disappointed like Shumpert.
[/quote
Marquette's recruiting of Wilson won't get as close as Shumpert's. IMO, Jamil will commit to an elite out-of-state program with MU not even in his top five.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 08:48:13 AM
Not going to be a popular opinion on here, but...
It appears that Wilson's father will be very involved in his decision. Clearly, this kid has NBA potential. If this was your kid, what in Buzz's experience would give you the confidence to entrust your son to Buzz? Absolutely, nothing that I can see. Sure, we've got great facilities, play in a great conference and get on TV a lot. But we've got a coach who can only describe his style of basketball as "winning." If one of my top concerns was making sure someone prepared my son for the NBA, I would not send him to play for Buzz -- at least not yet. Thank goodness Wilson has said he won't choose until the spring of 2009. By then, at least, Buzz will have a body of coaching work to point to.
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
The saving grace of that could be playing for the local team that gets heavy pub in the Big East and coming in to "carry" Buzz Williams (similar to the perception of another playing carrying a coach earlier this century). Of course, you can be average at MSU and still get looks whereas he could be great at MU and still be considered a so-so prospect.
Coaching NBA players isn't a surefire criteria. Look at Tom Crean. Dominic James committed to him because he knew that Crean had coached a couple NBA guards and that Crean would do all he could to get James into the league. Other then attempting to push him out of the door I'm not sure Crean had done anything to help James' NBA potential.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 08:48:13 AM
Not going to be a popular opinion on here, but...
It appears that Wilson's father will be very involved in his decision. Clearly, this kid has NBA potential. If this was your kid, what in Buzz's experience would give you the confidence to entrust your son to Buzz? Absolutely, nothing that I can see. Sure, we've got great facilities, play in a great conference and get on TV a lot. But we've got a coach who can only describe his style of basketball as "winning." If one of my top concerns was making sure someone prepared my son for the NBA, I would not send him to play for Buzz -- at least not yet. Thank goodness Wilson has said he won't choose until the spring of 2009. By then, at least, Buzz will have a body of coaching work to point to.
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
+1
"(Not hearing from Michigan State for a while) is not really a big deal. Actually, it shows me what kind of person Tom Izzo is and how much respect he has for other people. In order to earn respect you have to give respect. That just shows me what kind of person he is off of the court. He actually cares for other people."
If that is his criteria, we won't have to worry about him going to Indiana.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 08:48:13 AM
Not going to be a popular opinion on here, but...
It appears that Wilson's father will be very involved in his decision. Clearly, this kid has NBA potential. If this was your kid, what in Buzz's experience would give you the confidence to entrust your son to Buzz? Absolutely, nothing that I can see. Sure, we've got great facilities, play in a great conference and get on TV a lot. But we've got a coach who can only describe his style of basketball as "winning." If one of my top concerns was making sure someone prepared my son for the NBA, I would not send him to play for Buzz -- at least not yet. Thank goodness Wilson has said he won't choose until the spring of 2009. By then, at least, Buzz will have a body of coaching work to point to.
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
Doesn't look like Erik Williams is bothered by it one bit.
Yes I guess if the one and only factor the kid and family will take into account is getting prepared for the NBA then there are probably better options but I find it hard to believe anyone only looks at one factor. If the kid has phenomenal talent, the kid has phenomenal talent and will make it to the NBA regardless of who is coaching him, i.e. Frank Martin.
I think MU offers a lot of benefits, great conference, great facilities, close to home which is huge if he actually has a close family and I believe that Buzz has a great personality that wins over a lot of people. Frankly no one knows what Jamil and family are going to base their decision on but I will say that if I was a betting man I'd bet on Wilson seriously considering MU.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 08:48:13 AM
Not going to be a popular opinion on here, but...
It appears that Wilson's father will be very involved in his decision. Clearly, this kid has NBA potential. If this was your kid, what in Buzz's experience would give you the confidence to entrust your son to Buzz? Absolutely, nothing that I can see. Sure, we've got great facilities, play in a great conference and get on TV a lot. But we've got a coach who can only describe his style of basketball as "winning." If one of my top concerns was making sure someone prepared my son for the NBA, I would not send him to play for Buzz -- at least not yet. Thank goodness Wilson has said he won't choose until the spring of 2009. By then, at least, Buzz will have a body of coaching work to point to.
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
Unfortunately, I think you are probably correct. Everything I have heard about him has been very positive. He father played at UW-Whitewater in the 80s, and maybe even in Europe for a couple of years. So whatever choice he makes will be an informed one.
Quote from: mufanatic on April 24, 2008, 10:15:46 AM
Doesn't look like Erik Williams is bothered by it one bit.
Yes I guess if the one and only factor the kid and family will take into account is getting prepared for the NBA then there are probably better options but I find it hard to believe anyone only looks at one factor. If the kid has phenomenal talent, the kid has phenomenal talent and will make it to the NBA regardless of who is coaching him, i.e. Frank Martin.
I think MU offers a lot of benefits, great conference, great facilities, close to home which is huge if he actually has a close family and I believe that Buzz has a great personality that wins over a lot of people. Frankly no one knows what Jamil and family are going to base their decision on but I will say that if I was a betting man I'd bet on Wilson seriously considering MU.
Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
On Erik Williams -- can't disagree. Fortunately, EW already had a very strong relationship with Buzz. Surely that helped. I hope Buzz has a great relationship with Wilson.
One thing about your comment, though is that even if NBA preparation is not the
one and only factor, it could hurt us. Let's be honest here. It's not like the competition is between Marquette with its wonderful facilities, great conference, etc. (but an inexperienced coach) versus other schools with horrible facilities, conferences and experienced coaches. Wilson is a five-star, elite recruit. When it's all said and done, most of the other schools competing for his services will have a lot to offer in terms of facilities, reputations, etc. It's not like he'll be choosing between Buzz Williams and the taj majal of facilities and Tom Izzo (or Bill Self, Thad Matta, etc.) and some dumpy high school gym. Sure, our facilities are among the very best, but other programs have some decent facilities too. Even if he's considering multiple factors (facilities, conference, etc) other high-major programs have a lot to offer. So, as long as experience coaching/developing NBA talent is
one important criteria (as opposed to the
one and only criteria as you suggested), we might suffer by comparison.
But, we are one of the few programs that are close to home. I hope that is an important factor for him. I really hope Buzz can win him over. I don't doubt that he'll seriously consider MU. I just doubt he'll accept.
For the record, even when Crean was around, I was not terribly optimistic that Wilson would come to Marquette. I've always thought that he'll end up at one of the very top programs. I'm not blaming Buzz for this.
To your point Stillawarrior, facilities at these other schools are very good too, and some are getting better.
IU's facilities are about to become some of the very best as well. They are getting a brand new practice facility...ground was broken in the Summer of 2007.
(http://info.iu.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/2127_h.jpg)
Assembly Hall is also going bye bye. The 35 year old facility, which was a dump when I was there years ago, is going to be replaced. Estimated cost of $130million to $160million though the timetable is a long way off.
The arms race continues.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 08:48:13 AM
But, if I'm a betting man (and I am), I'd bet heavily on Wilson ending up with a coach who has coached and developed players who went on to the NBA (and I'm not counting Buzz's time next year with DJ or JM). Any takers on that bet?
Prove me wrong, Buzz. Please prove me wrong.
Buzz coached Acie Law and Antoine Wright at Texas A&M. In fact, I'd say Wilson seems very much like an Antoine Wright-type player.
Or does only head-coaching experience count?
Based on the article, I wonder if Crean didn't recruit Michigan hard because he and Izzo didn't want to compete for recruits. Although, didn't James visit Michigan State?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 24, 2008, 11:58:35 AM
Buzz coached Acie Law and Antoine Wright at Texas A&M. In fact, I'd say Wilson seems very much like an Antoine Wright-type player.
Or does only head-coaching experience count?
Nope, any coaching experience counts. But, if it was my son and I one of the factors I was considering highly was experience coaching/developing NBA talent, Buzz would certainly suffer in comparison to many, many other coaches.
Listen, I'm not saying this to rip Buzz. I think he'll be a good coach and I'm very excited about the future. A bit nervous, but excited. But let's not kid ourselves.
If this is an important consideration for the Wilson family (and I have absolutely no idea if it is), then Buzz is facing a major obstacle in recruiting Jamil. Frankly, I think Crean would have a hard time landing him
if this is a major factor.
Quote from: muchalktalk on April 24, 2008, 12:18:03 PM
Based on the article, I wonder if Crean didn't recruit Michigan hard because he and Izzo didn't want to compete for recruits. Although, didn't James visit Michigan State?
Crean and Izzo went head to head on many recruits, with Izzo almost always winning, i.e. Chris Hill, Maurice Ager, Shannon Brown, Maurice Joseph.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 12:27:39 PM
Nope, any coaching experience counts. But, if it was my son and I one of the factors I was considering highly was experience coaching/developing NBA talent, Buzz would certainly suffer in comparison to many, many other coaches.
Listen, I'm not saying this to rip Buzz. I think he'll be a good coach and I'm very excited about the future. A bit nervous, but excited. But let's not kid ourselves. If this is an important consideration for the Wilson family (and I have absolutely no idea if it is), then Buzz is facing a major obstacle in recruiting Jamil. Frankly, I think Crean would have a hard time landing him if this is a major factor.
I don't think you're ripping Buzz and I understand exactly what you're saying. Certainly that could work against him.
I'm just pointing out that he
has worked with NBA players, though obviously his experience in that regard pales in comparison with some others recruiting Wilson.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 24, 2008, 12:29:29 PM
Crean and Izzo went head to head on many recruits, with Izzo almost always winning, i.e. Chris Hill, Maurice Ager, Shannon Brown, Maurice Joseph.
don't forget korie lucious
Jeff Strohm worked with NBA players, too. It doesn't mean it translates as well. There's a difference, at least in perception, of being the captain of the ship working with those players vs being an assistant.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 24, 2008, 10:46:02 AM
Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
On Erik Williams -- can't disagree. Fortunately, EW already had a very strong relationship with Buzz. Surely that helped. I hope Buzz has a great relationship with Wilson.
One thing about your comment, though is that even if NBA preparation is not the one and only factor, it could hurt us. Let's be honest here. It's not like the competition is between Marquette with its wonderful facilities, great conference, etc. (but an inexperienced coach) versus other schools with horrible facilities, conferences and experienced coaches. Wilson is a five-star, elite recruit. When it's all said and done, most of the other schools competing for his services will have a lot to offer in terms of facilities, reputations, etc. It's not like he'll be choosing between Buzz Williams and the taj majal of facilities and Tom Izzo (or Bill Self, Thad Matta, etc.) and some dumpy high school gym. Sure, our facilities are among the very best, but other programs have some decent facilities too. Even if he's considering multiple factors (facilities, conference, etc) other high-major programs have a lot to offer. So, as long as experience coaching/developing NBA talent is one important criteria (as opposed to the one and only criteria as you suggested), we might suffer by comparison.
But, we are one of the few programs that are close to home. I hope that is an important factor for him. I really hope Buzz can win him over. I don't doubt that he'll seriously consider MU. I just doubt he'll accept.
For the record, even when Crean was around, I was not terribly optimistic that Wilson would come to Marquette. I've always thought that he'll end up at one of the very top programs. I'm not blaming Buzz for this.
I understand what your saying and it will be interesting to see what happens but I really do believe that up until TC left, we were Jamil's leader so I do feel that we still have a decent shot. Playing close to home especially when you have a close knit family is a huge factor and I think Buzz is a good enough recruiter to push us back on top. Having a year left before Jamil announces his decision will help a lot.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on April 24, 2008, 12:42:25 PM
don't forget korie lucious
MU never went after Lucious as hard as the other guys mentioned. Too many issues surrounding the kid.
Quote from: mufanatic on April 24, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
I understand what your saying and it will be interesting to see what happens but I really do believe that up until TC left, we were Jamil's leader so I do feel that we still have a decent shot. Playing close to home especially when you have a close knit family is a huge factor and I think Buzz is a good enough recruiter to push us back on top. Having a year left before Jamil announces his decision will help a lot.
I really hope you're right. It would be great for the program to get him. If he comes, what that means is that there are plenty of things more important to him and his family than playing for a coach with the experience (or reputation) of developing NBA players. In my opinion, that would be wise to value other things more highly. I just know I'd love to have him.
In my opinion Wilson is to Buzz what Joe Wolfe was to Rick. If Majerus got Wolfe his legay would had been changed forever at MU. If Buzz can somehow pull Wilson off it will be the start of something. If he doesn't he could very easily follow the same path Rick took.
I fully realize Wilson is a big time recruit, but it is in our backyard. Buzz has to do anything needed to get it done. Even if Wilson only lived up to 50% of the advance billing it would be a big building block. If I was Buzz I would promise the kid the moon.
Quote from: 3Mer on April 24, 2008, 08:38:52 AM
Move along people -- nothing to see here!
Just because Crean bolted for Indiana [which is now an "option"] and MU scoured the country in order to land Buzz Williams [who?] doesn't mean there's any reason to be concerned that Wilson is also being recruited by the likes of Izzo, Ryan, Self, et al.
Just another reason to scratch our collective heads over MU's decision to hire the lowest profile coach available.
3Mer - It's getting a little old reading your self-righteous posts about the Newbill recruitment..thought it would be fun to do a little research and see some of your thought processes. Quite Ironic.
Do you have a job?
And even though Jamil ended up here, it doesn't mean that he blew it earlier. I'm from Racine and heard stories of Buzz just doing stupid things trying to recruit Wilson. Buzz isn't and wasn't perfect. He's doing a great job learning and building a team, though.
The only people worse than those that blame Buzz for everything are those who thinks he is perfect.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 07, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
Do you have a job?
And even though Jamil ended up here, it doesn't mean that he blew it earlier. I'm from Racine and heard stories of Buzz just doing stupid things trying to recruit Wilson. Buzz isn't and wasn't perfect. He's doing a great job learning and building a team, though.
The only people worse than those that blame Buzz for everything are those who thinks he is perfect.
Do I have a job? Really? No, I'm an unemployed loser - just like you who posts here during the work day. If you would, could you please share with me and the rest of the board - what "stupid things" you "heard" Buzz did in trying to recruit Wilson?? Must have been really, really, really stupid stuff for Wilson to decide to come play for Buzz. The only people worse than those who believe evything they hear are those who...wait a minute...there isn't much worse than someon who believes gossip to be true..and then passes it along...but since you are already that person..go ahead and regal all of us with the stupid things Buzz did in his recruitment of Wilson?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2008, 12:57:47 AM
I'm sure Buzz will save the day
This is the one that got my attention, from a guy who claims he doesn't judge a coach for 3-5 years. How long had he been coach at this point, 3-5 days?
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 11:19:51 AM
Do I have a job? Really? No, I'm an unemployed loser - just like you who posts here during the work day. If you would, could you please share with me and the rest of the board - what "stupid things" you "heard" Buzz did in trying to recruit Wilson?? Must have been really, really, really stupid stuff for Wilson to decide to come play for Buzz. The only people worse than those who believe evything they hear are those who...wait a minute...there isn't much worse than someon who believes gossip to be true..and then passes it along...but since you are already that person..go ahead and regal all of us with the stupid things Buzz did in his recruitment of Wilson?
Basically, that he approached him wrong. Gave him some bad impressions. Nothing really bad, but things that didn't help in his recruitment. That and closing and opening his scholarship spot. It obviously wasn't bad enough to keep Jamil away, but it was initially. I was just saying buzz wasn't perfect in his recruitment of Wilson and that to say criticism of his first summer on the job could have been warranted, though premature.
And just because he came to MU doesn't mean it was all Buzz recruiting him. You can tell he misses his home and that was a major reason he came back. This past weekend he could be seen fooling around with friends at a Racine Raiders game or walking in the parade and being all smiles.
I apologize for the personal attack but do you really need to bring up posts that are 2 years old. Yes, time proves some people right but you also lose a lot of context and details.
The chemistry was bad two years ago because Buzz needed immediate commitments and Jamil wasn't going to be rushed. Regardless, do we REALLY need to to rehash two year old threads in order to keep juvenile grudges going?
QuoteDo I have a job? Really? No, I'm an unemployed loser - just like you who posts here during the work day.
QuoteThe only people worse than those who believe evything they hear are those who...wait a minute...there isn't much worse than someon who believes gossip to be true..and then passes it along...but since you are already that person..go ahead and regal all of us with the stupid things Buzz did in his recruitment of Wilson?
Are you drunk? What does half this even say?
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 07, 2010, 12:21:27 PM
Are you drunk? What does half this even say?
Is it a good thing or a bad thing if he is drunk but also at work?
(http://www.fitnesswithpete.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Ron+burgundy.jpg)
im not even mad, im more just impressed.
Ners reminds me of the North Korean ministry of information.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 07, 2010, 12:42:06 PM
Ners reminds me of the North Korean ministry of information.
Or Bagdad Bob, "They're not even [within] 100 miles [of Baghdad]. They are not in any place. They hold no place in Iraq. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion."
The thing that stands out the most to me about this old post being dragged up again is how much more civil the debates were back then.
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 07, 2010, 12:21:27 PM
Are you drunk? What does half this even say?
If you couldn't comprehend what I'd written, then either: A) You are drunk or B) You aren't too bright. But here..to break it down for you in simpleton terms - Marty Conlon stated he "heard" Buzz did "stupid things" in his initial recruitment of Wilson...my point was that there isn't much worse than someone who believes everything they hear..and that gossips that information forward...like Marty Conlon did. Simple enough for you??
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 07, 2010, 12:03:09 PM
Basically, that he approached him wrong. Gave him some bad impressions. Nothing really bad, but things that didn't help in his recruitment. That and closing and opening his scholarship spot. It obviously wasn't bad enough to keep Jamil away, but it was initially. I was just saying buzz wasn't perfect in his recruitment of Wilson and that to say criticism of his first summer on the job could have been warranted, though premature.
And just because he came to MU doesn't mean it was all Buzz recruiting him. You can tell he misses his home and that was a major reason he came back. This past weekend he could be seen fooling around with friends at a Racine Raiders game or walking in the parade and being all smiles.
I apologize for the personal attack but do you really need to bring up posts that are 2 years old. Yes, time proves some people right but you also lose a lot of context and details.
No worries about the personal attack. But, do you expect perfection from people? Buzz wasn't perfect in his recrutiment of Wilson? I wouldn't expect him to be "perfect" in his recruitment of Wilson..to be a perfect head coach..to be a perfect citizen..I don't expect perfection of anybody..but what pisses me off is when some posters here want to expect perfection from Buzz..and complain about the way he's handled some things in his time at MU. We have probably the best under 40 year old coach in the country..who has assembled probably the best collection of talent at MU from top to bottom...yet we have some who nitpick the sh$t out of him. It's like get off your high horse, have a little gratitude, and stop being so self righteous...I'm not necessarily directing this comment at you..but rahter explaining my position on Buzz. My point is that Buzz is really, really good..and we are lucky to have him at MU. Is he perfect...No....but has he accomplished more than any of the other "preferred candidates" at the time of Crean's departure...absolutely YES.
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 01:59:29 PM
No worries about the personal attack. But, do you expect perfection from people? Buzz wasn't perfect in his recrutiment of Wilson? I wouldn't expect him to be "perfect" in his recruitment of Wilson..to be a perfect head coach..to be a perfect citizen..I don't expect perfection of anybody..but what pisses me off is when some posters here want to expect perfection from Buzz..and complain about the way he's handled some things in his time at MU. We have probably the best under 40 year old coach in the country..who has assembled probably the best collection of talent at MU from top to bottom...yet we have some who nitpick the sh$t out of him. It's like get off your high horse, have a little gratitude, and stop being so self righteous...I'm not necessarily directing this comment at you..but rahter explaining my position on Buzz. My point is that Buzz is really, really good..and we are lucky to have him at MU. Is he perfect...No....but has he accomplished more than any of the other "preferred candidates" at the time of Crean's departure...absolutely YES.
Yes, I agree but hindsight is 20/20. At the time, we hired a coach with no resume who missed out on a big time recruit from 20 minutes south. Of course people were hesitant of the Buzz hire. I'm not arguing that Buzz is a top coach now, but rather he probably wasn't at the time.
It's like pulling up a post before the Bucks season last year. If you said the Bucks basically have no shot of getting the 6th seed, you look foolish looking back. But if you go back to last offseason with the information available that would be the regular statement. There's no point of digging up post from 2 years ago. No one can predict the future. The only people who look smart are those who are vague and make comments like Buzz could be really good or really bad but won't make a stance either way. It's a message board, you are suppose to have an opinion.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 07, 2010, 02:05:35 PM
Yes, I agree but hindsight is 20/20. At the time, we hired a coach with no resume who missed out on a big time recruit from 20 minutes south. Of course people were hesitant of the Buzz hire. I'm not arguing that Buzz is a top coach now, but rather he probably wasn't at the time.
It's like pulling up a post before the Bucks season last year. If you said the Bucks basically have no shot of getting the 6th seed, you look foolish looking back. But if you go back to last offseason with the information available that would be the regular statement. There's no point of digging up post from 2 years ago. No one can predict the future. The only people who look smart are those who are vague and make comments like Buzz could be really good or really bad but won't make a stance either way. It's a message board, you are suppose to have an opinion.
Good point..and I am all for people having a
consistent opinion...but don't bellyache about him being named the coach 2 years ago..and that he'd have no chance to compete for Wilson against the likes of Izzo and Rick Barnes...but now..a year later when we get Wilson..start criticizing the sh$t out of Buzz for "cutting" Newbill..and bringing in Wilson (especially when -3EMer-wasn't present in the conversations between MU and Newbill...they guy - 3EM'er has been all over Buzz's a$$ about the Newbill situation...and when he started posting here had a major problem with Buzz being hired and questioned his recruiting ability...now..Buzz isn't recruiting in the "right way." I brought up the post from 2 years ago as I found it ironic 3EM'er has been bitching for the last week about the Newbill situation..and found it ironic he was bitching about Buzz being hired 2 years ago due to his lack of experience and "likely" inability to recruit..which I think Buzz has clearly shown..he can recruit.
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 02:12:26 PM
Good point..and I am all for people having a consistent opinion...but don't bellyache about him being named the coach 2 years ago..and that he'd have no chance to compete for Wilson against the likes of Izzo and Rick Barnes...but now..a year later when we get Wilson..start criticizing the sh$t out of Buzz for "cutting" Newbill..and bringing in Wilson (especially when -3EMer-wasn't present in the conversations between MU and Newbill...they guy - 3EM'er has been all over Buzz's a$$ about the Newbill situation...and when he started posting here had a major problem with Buzz being hired and questioned his recruiting ability...now..Buzz isn't recruiting in the "right way." I brought up the post from 2 years ago as I found it ironic 3EM'er has been bitching for the last week about the Newbill situation..and found it ironic he was bitching about Buzz being hired 2 years ago due to his lack of experience and "likely" inability to recruit..which I think Buzz has clearly shown..he can recruit.
You are so apples to oranges in your "argument" that with a few grapes, you'd be a fruit salad (or a jug of sangria if in fact you are drunk).
Quote from: MUCam on July 07, 2010, 02:23:34 PM
You are so apples to oranges in your "argument" that with a few grapes, you'd be a fruit salad (or a jug of sangria if in fact you are drunk).
Great- And since you are at it - why don't you give me some examples of where I'm apples to oranges in my argument?
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 02:36:46 PM
Great- And since you are at it - why don't you give me some examples of where I'm apples to oranges in my argument?
I've got one.
We didn't get Wilson until he decided to transfer. So technically Buzz did lose the recruiting battle. Furthermore, wanting Buzz to beat people out for Wilson doesn't mean he has to approve of the manner in which he does it. You are trying to say that because he wanted Buzz to win the battle for Wilson, he has to approve of Newbill getting let go. That logic doesn't fly.
Quote from: MUSF on July 07, 2010, 02:48:48 PM
I've got one.
We didn't get Wilson until he decided to transfer. So technically Buzz did lose the recruiting battle. Furthermore, wanting Buzz to beat people out for Wilson doesn't mean he has to approve of the manner in which he does it. You are trying to say that because he wanted Buzz to win the battle for Wilson, he has to approve of Newbill getting let go. That logic doesn't fly.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Tell him what he's (or she's) won: A Dole's fruit cocktail cup. Yay.
wow. move this sh#t debate to email.
Quote from: MUSF on July 07, 2010, 02:48:48 PM
I've got one.
We didn't get Wilson until he decided to transfer. So technically Buzz did lose the recruiting battle. Furthermore, wanting Buzz to beat people out for Wilson doesn't mean he has to approve of the manner in which he does it. You are trying to say that because he wanted Buzz to win the battle for Wilson, he has to approve of Newbill getting let go. That logic doesn't fly.
Try this one - 3EM'er complaind that when Buzz was hired he basically wouldn't stand a chance at landing Wilson..or competing with Izzo/Barnes, etc. 3EM'er basically complained that Buzz wouldn't stand a chance in recruiting. It is clear..that Buzz can recruit..got us our first 5-star in Vander Blue (which 3EM'er complained about that we were trying to get to 5-star recruiting levels..building the program in that direction..and then we hire Buzz..). It is ironic that Wilson chose to transfer to MU. I'm sure Izzo would have made room for him, and that is close to home too. Or Bo Ryan would have made room for him..Maybe Wilson didn't want to commit to a first yeear, unproven coach..he went elsewhere..saw that Buzz could coach, recruit..and now it makes his decision that meuch easier to come play for Buzz...this isn't an apples/oranges scenario, and to try to make it into a comparison type of argument as MUCam di is ridiculous..
QuoteMaybe Wilson didn't want to commit to a first yeear, unproven coach..he went elsewhere..saw that Buzz could coach, recruit..and now it makes his decision that meuch easier to come play for Buzz...
So Jamil Wilson can't celebrate when Marquette is successful either?
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 07, 2010, 04:09:56 PM
So Jamil Wilson can't celebrate when Marquette is successful either?
Acutally he can..because he's a least bright enough to figure it out after 2 years..unlike some..
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 02:12:26 PM
Good point..and I am all for people having a consistent opinion...but don't bellyache about him being named the coach 2 years ago..and that he'd have no chance to compete for Wilson against the likes of Izzo and Rick Barnes...but now..a year later when we get Wilson..start criticizing the sh$t out of Buzz for "cutting" Newbill..and bringing in Wilson (especially when -3EMer-wasn't present in the conversations between MU and Newbill...they guy - 3EM'er has been all over Buzz's a$$ about the Newbill situation...and when he started posting here had a major problem with Buzz being hired and questioned his recruiting ability...now..Buzz isn't recruiting in the "right way." I brought up the post from 2 years ago as I found it ironic 3EM'er has been bitching for the last week about the Newbill situation..and found it ironic he was bitching about Buzz being hired 2 years ago due to his lack of experience and "likely" inability to recruit..which I think Buzz has clearly shown..he can recruit.
I admit my self-righteousness must be getting in the way of understanding just what in the he11 your rambling point is.
I further admit that I questioned the rushed manner in which MU hired Buzz who had a glaringly short resume for a coach of a Top-20 program.
And I further admit that I questioned the seemingly unethical manner in which Buzz pulled Newbill's scholarship.
So your point is exactly what? I shouldn't criticize Buzz for being underqualified because he was sufficiently savvy to lure a marginal high school player into signing NLOI, but then had the "recruiting ability" to breach the offer in favor of a better player?
Or is your point that only blind loyalists should bother posting?
Quote from: 3Mer on July 07, 2010, 04:31:01 PM
I admit my self-righteousness must be getting in the way of understanding just what in the he11 your rambling point is.
I further admit that I questioned the rushed manner in which MU hired Buzz who had a glaringly short resume for a coach of a Top-20 program.
And I further admit that I questioned the seemingly unethical manner in which Buzz pulled Newbill's scholarship.
So your point is exactly what? I shouldn't criticize Buzz for being underqualified because he was sufficiently savvy to lure a marginal high school player into signing NLOI, but then had the "recruiting ability" to breach the offer in favor of a better player?
Or is your point that only blind loyalists should bother posting?
After a review of your post history..one thing is evident..you are critical of virutally everythhing associated with our program..Buzz, the results of the Big 3. Are you possibly a Badger troll in disguise? And no..Buzz didn't have the recruiting ability to greach the Newbill NLI..he had the recruiting ability to eventually land Wilson..which you implied could never happen when up against Izzo, Texas, etc...Hopefully Buzz can live up to your "Jesuit values." And..who did you want MU to hire after Bennett, Grant, Sean Miller and Keno Davis turned them down? Perhaps in your self-righteous illusions, you think MU is a destination job...the results of our search after Crean left pretty much illustrate that Providence, Arizon, Virginia and Alabam were all seen as better jobs than MU. Why criticize Cotttingham for hiring Buzz after we'd been turned down by the other candidates? You probably are the ype of guy to think the Bucks could land a LeBron or Carmelo in free agency...just isn't gonna happen..
Quote from: Ners on July 07, 2010, 04:45:13 PM
Are you possibly a Badger troll in disguise?
I rest my case. You're a knob.
Quote from: 3Mer on July 07, 2010, 04:31:01 PM
I admit my self-righteousness must be getting in the way of understanding just what in the he11 your rambling point is.
I further admit that I questioned the rushed manner in which MU hired Buzz who had a glaringly short resume for a coach of a Top-20 program.
And I further admit that I questioned the seemingly unethical manner in which Buzz pulled Newbill's scholarship.
So your point is exactly what? I shouldn't criticize Buzz for being underqualified because he was sufficiently savvy to lure a marginal high school player into signing NLOI, but then had the "recruiting ability" to breach the offer in favor of a better player?
Or is your point that only blind loyalists should bother posting?
OK. You didn't like Buzz when he was hired and were quite vocal about it. Then you disappeared during his 2+ years of success after success. Now you're back to rip him again.
I don't think only "blind loyalists" should be posting but I am suspect of those who only come around to attack/bitch/moan etc. Where ya been hiding?
I'm not hiding.
My name is Michael Flynn. I live in Wauwatosa and work in Racine. "3Mer" refers to the fact that I graduated from Marquette High, Marquette University and Marquette Law. I am still paying on my law school loans 11 years after graduating. I am a season ticket holder.
I read MU Scoop to get insights into things I don't understand. I rarely post except when the insights fail to adequately explain things such as the bizarre manner in which Buzz was hired or the bizarre manner in which Newbill was treated.
Quote from: 3Mer on July 07, 2010, 05:12:20 PM
I'm not hiding.
My name is Michael Flynn. I live in Wauwatosa and work in Racine. "3Mer" refers to the fact that I graduated from Marquette High, Marquette University and Marquette Law. I am still paying on my law school loans 11 years after graduating. I am a season ticket holder.
I read MU Scoop to get insights into things I don't understand. I rarely post except when the insights fail to adequately explain things such as the bizarre manner in which Buzz was hired or the bizarre manner in which Newbill was treated.
So you're saying you only post to attack, bitch or moan. Fair enough.
Sigh.