MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChicosBailBonds on April 15, 2008, 10:41:01 AM
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http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8037092/Providence-hires-coach-Davis-away-from-Drake
What's strange is that they had their banquet just two days ago and yet were still able to pull this hire off. ::)
Providence just got tougher....think about it ..... PROVIDENCE hires a coach out of the midwest with a very strong basketball background. Providence.
I hope they run an ad in their local paper, at least in theirs they can tout that their coach took his previous team to the NCAA tournament with a team picked to finish nowhere near a NCAA level squad.
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
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The only way I could feel good about this hire right now is if I see a report that if Buzz didn't take the job, Cottingham would have then targeted either Barro or Fitzgerald. You know, for continuity.
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Embarrasing by the day.
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
As if you wouldn't have ripped MU for hiring Keno Davis, you're such a hypocrite....why are you even a MU fan? Try to be happy.
The guy has 1 year of head coaching experience and got a seven year contract worth 7 million???
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
The guy has 1 year of head coaching experience and got a seven year contract worth 7 million???
As opposed to the 6 year, $7 million contract our current coach signed...the one with 1 year of head coaching experience that wasn't even a fraction as successful as Davis' one year?
Are you kidding me? Drake hadn't made the NCAA in like 45 years and they earned a 5 seed.
I didn't want Davis, but he would have been leaps and bounds better than what we ended up with.
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Look....guys
I am not fond of the Buzz hire. I agree that the process was flawed, and they had no need to rush...BUT....
It is done. Let's give the guy the guy the benefit of the doubt. We do not know what went on in the background. As those of us who attended MU know, what happens in O'Hara Hall stays in O'Hara Hall.
I'll be all over the BoT and Athletic Administration if this thing goes bad, but its time to quit bellyaching about that which we cannot change.
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Look....guys
I am not fond of the Buzz hire. I agree that the process was flawed, and they had no need to rush...BUT....
It is done. Let's give the guy the guy the benefit of the doubt. We do not know what went on in the background. As those of us who attended MU know, what happens in O'Hara Hall stays in O'Hara Hall.
I'll be all over the BoT and Athletic Administration if this thing goes bad, but its time to quit bellyaching about that which we cannot change.
Transfers and opts out indicate its already gone bad. Continuity was literally the only reason to hire Williams and in a flash that's up in flames.
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Wait so this resume is better than Buzz's?????
Resume
Years Title Location
2007-Present Head Coach Drake
2003-2006 Assistant Coach Drake
1997-2002 Assistant Coach SE Missouri St.
Yeah he went to the NCAA's this year but not with "his" guys and had a lot of senior talent. How is he light years ahead of Buzz. Potentially better but the MVC was down and how much can you hold the UNO job against Buzz as that isn't even comparable to the Drake job in terms of difficulty.
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Wait so this resume is better than Buzz's?????
Resume
Years Title Location
2007-Present Head Coach Drake
2003-2006 Assistant Coach Drake
1997-2002 Assistant Coach SE Missouri St.
Yeah he went to the NCAA's this year but not with "his" guys and had a lot of senior talent. How is he light years ahead of Buzz. Potentially better but the MVC was down and how much can you hold the UNO job against Buzz as that isn't even comparable to the Drake job in terms of difficulty.
Completely agree.
I mean, I like Davis' pedigree... but I'm not sure his resume is a lot more impressive.
I'm not a big resume guy, but some people seem to rip Buzz's pretty bad, so I'd like to see what is so special about Keno's.
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Look....guys
I am not fond of the Buzz hire. I agree that the process was flawed, and they had no need to rush...BUT....
It is done. Let's give the guy the guy the benefit of the doubt. We do not know what went on in the background. As those of us who attended MU know, what happens in O'Hara Hall stays in O'Hara Hall.
I'll be all over the BoT and Athletic Administration if this thing goes bad, but its time to quit bellyaching about that which we cannot change.
We are giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, we're unloading on our administration...not on Buzz. We're unloading on a process that was a joke. We're unloading on the fact this whole thing started 2 months ago when an AD with not ONE OUNCE of athletics background was put into place to run a Big East athletic department.
You reep what you sow and MU looks absolutely silly. But hey, all the negative press around the country and locally, everyone will view at as opposite day so we have that going for us. ::)
Quite frankly, the incompetence makes it even more unfair and difficult for Buzz. Puts him in a situation that he has to hit a home run. Why? Because they hired someone with his background. If MU had hired a Davis, a Les, etc, those coaches would have a little more latitude from the fans, etc because they've proven they can get it done. But when they go down the Buzz path and with the negative press that goes with it, you're virtually forcing him out of the gate to do nothing short of hit a home run by a guy that is very green. That's very tough, I feel bad for Buzz in that regard having to cut his teeth at this level as a head coach.
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Wait so this resume is better than Buzz's?????
Resume
Years Title Location
2007-Present Head Coach Drake
2003-2006 Assistant Coach Drake
1997-2002 Assistant Coach SE Missouri St.
Yeah he went to the NCAA's this year but not with "his" guys and had a lot of senior talent. How is he light years ahead of Buzz. Potentially better but the MVC was down and how much can you hold the UNO job against Buzz as that isn't even comparable to the Drake job in terms of difficulty.
Yes it is.
MVC was "down" but still a good league. Davis took a team that was picked to do absolutely nothing and did something with it. Buzz took a team picked to do absolutely nothing and accomplished that.
Davis is the son of Tom Davis which means he has been raised on basketball....I don't think Keno is having to write 400 post cards a week to figure out how to break a zone.
Just a guess.
More importantly, from a credibility stand point, this would be less of a gamble which has been my complaint all along. Would you rather bring in a guy that took a school from arguably the best Mid Major conference in the country to the NCAAs or take a guy with a losing record in his one year? I know Buzz got a raw deal at UNO, but I'm just talking about perception and credibility right now, nothing less? That's an easy question to answer in my mind....a lot less "risk" with a Davis hire then Williams.
I'll give Cottingham credit, his move was ballsy....because he's set himself up if it doesn't work out.
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Do you guys understand how deep New Orleans had to dig to come up with somebody that would take their head coaching job? They were desperate and were basically forced to take a chance on somebody completely unproven and, basically, unqualified.
Now he's our coach because he was on Crean's staff for 9 months?
New Orleans probably labored over the decision to hire him. And it appears we barely thought twice about it.
How does that make sense?
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I'll give Cottingham credit, his move was ballsy....because he's set himself up if it doesn't work out.
I guess this is the crux of my point/hope. Perhaps I'm not as jaded as you and PRN etc, but given the obviousness of the risk of this hire, the people involved have to have seen something in Buzz. Yes, this group screwed up Gold, but I give them credit for thinking outside of the box.....besides if you listen to PRN that was all Crean anyway.
I guess I have more faith in the process/people involved than you do. I'd say the important people are really confident in Buzz because their jobs are on the line if he doesn't work out. That is enough to give me hope along with what I've seen of Buzz so far.
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Do you guys understand how deep New Orleans had to dig to come up with somebody that would take their head coaching job? They were desperate and were basically forced to take a chance on somebody completely unproven and, basically, unqualified.
Now he's our coach because he was on Crean's staff for 9 months?
New Orleans probably labored over the decision to hire him. And it appears we barely thought twice about it.
How does that make sense?
You act like prior to Katrina UNO was a hot bed for named coaches.....I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that when they got new coaches, they were either unknowns or assistants promoted from within. Don't try and frame this like Buzz being hired by UNO was way outside the norm. Not to mention new coaches have to come from somewhere, so if UNO and MU aren't hiring assistants, who exactly is?
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I'll give Cottingham credit, his move was ballsy....because he's set himself up if it doesn't work out.
I guess this is the crux of my point/hope. Perhaps I'm not as jaded as you and PRN etc, but given the obviousness of the risk of this hire, the people involved have to have seen something in Buzz. Yes, this group screwed up Gold, but I give them credit for thinking outside of the box.....besides if you listen to PRN that was all Crean anyway.
I guess I have more faith in the process/people involved than you do. I'd say the important people are really confident in Buzz because their jobs are on the line if he doesn't work out. That is enough to give me hope along with what I've seen of Buzz so far.
+1
Call me an optimist.
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
I think we all agree it is a risky hire...but if we hired Keno, we lose five recruits. TT and NW wanted out the day of TC's press conference. (Buzz at least got an audience with Pop Hurley). Plus the three Buzz Texans would be gone. We also lose Trevor, PH and probably DJ, along with Scott. Maybe on Jerel.
So, down 5 (for sure) to 10 vs. 3 today (where we had to lose one anyway). Jamil has stated MU is still on his list with the Buzz hire. Buzz was at least planning for attrition first thing with talk of the JUCO's. So, why is this the "Mother of All Disasters"?
Buzz does one thing well: Recruit. Look at recent threads on this Board--95% vitriolically negative about Buzz and MU. Man bites dog.
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I'll give Cottingham credit, his move was ballsy....because he's set himself up if it doesn't work out.
I guess this is the crux of my point/hope. Perhaps I'm not as jaded as you and PRN etc, but given the obviousness of the risk of this hire, the people involved have to have seen something in Buzz. Yes, this group screwed up Gold, but I give them credit for thinking outside of the box.....besides if you listen to PRN that was all Crean anyway.
I guess I have more faith in the process/people involved than you do. I'd say the important people are really confident in Buzz because their jobs are on the line if he doesn't work out. That is enough to give me hope along with what I've seen of Buzz so far.
Crean was behind "Gold." And people listened to him. Unfortunately and inexplicably, I believe he still has somebody's ear and that's how we got in yet another pickle.
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Because this is the only type of attention Buzz gets. JS story about him writing notes. WHO CARES.
JS ONLINE: SPORTS: E-MAIL | PRINT
THIS STORY
Williams strikes right note
Posted: April 14, 2008
SportsDay
Bob Wolfley
E-MAIL
There's dropping a line to someone, and then there's Buzz Williams' version of that activity.
In his college days, Williams dropped thousands of lines to hundreds of coaches.
When Williams was introduced as Marquette University's basketball coach last week, athletic director Steve Cottingham told the audience about Williams' letter- and note-writing ways.
According to the 2007-'08 MU press guide, Williams has a 1992 associate's degree from Navarro College, which is located 55 miles south of Dallas in Corsicana, Texas (pop. 24,500), a 1994 bachelor's degree in kinesiology from Oklahoma City (Okla.) University and a master's degree in kinesiology from Texas A&M-Kingsville.
Williams hung around the basketball team and when he met a new coach, he would send him a note each week, collecting information.
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Buy a link here"After he met a coach, he wrote notes and letters to the coach," Cottingham said. "By his senior year he was writing 400 letters or notes a week."
When he was talking with reporters after his address at the Al McGuire Center, Williams was asked if he ever estimated how many notes to coaches he wrote in that span.
"You know it changed," Williams said. "Because in Week 1 I'd meet one guy. Well by Week 82, there may have been 102. So it was constantly changing."
Williams said he sent postcards, which helped lower the cost of mailing.
But if you are sending out 400 letters, and stamps cost 29 cents, that's as much as $116 a week in postage, depending on how many postcards you used.
And that says nothing about the time it took to write all the notes.
"(I) asked for stamps and envelopes for Christmas presents and birthdays," Williams said. "I'd sneak a few through the athletic mail. I'd ask a girl to buy a stamp or two."
Williams said he liked to bring that kind of zeal to his recruiting and coaching.
"The only choice and the only chance you have in life are your attitude and your capacity to work," Williams said. "Those are always the things I have tried to control."
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
I think we all agree it is a risky hire...but if we hired Keno, we lose five recruits. TT and NW wanted out the day of TC's press conference. (Buzz at least got an audience with Pop Hurley). Plus the three Buzz Texans would be gone. We also lose Trevor, PH and probably DJ, along with Scott. Maybe on Jerel.
So, down 5 (for sure) to 10 vs. 3 today (where we had to lose one anyway). Jamil has stated MU is still on his list with the Buzz hire. Buzz was at least planning for attrition first thing with talk of the JUCO's. So, why is this the "Mother of All Disasters"?
Buzz does one thing well: Recruit. Look at recent threads on this Board--95% vitriolically negative about Buzz and MU. Man bites dog.
Pardner, you make a valid point. For those saying this continuity thing is crap....how many players/recruits/2009 recruits do we lose without Buzz?? I know you can't prove a negative or things that never happen but I think the exodus is bigger without Buzz.
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and if we had hired Keno and lost all the recruits and went 10-17 next year, PRN would be the first to rip the hire. Did anyone think that maybe Keno took the Providence job because there is much less pressure there than there would have been at MU?
I guess Hurley won't send any of his players there because of the one-year-experience rule.
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Buy a link here"After he met a coach, he wrote notes and letters to the coach," Cottingham said. "By his senior year he was writing 400 letters or notes a week."
Wow another JS masterpiece. Even Buzz corrected this - Cottingham had the story wrong - it was something like 400 letters total by his senior year. Way to fact check!
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Davis is the son of Tom Davis which means he has been raised on basketball....I don't think Keno is having to write 400 post cards a week to figure out how to break a zone.
Just a guess.
Aha ... so that explains the vast success of Murray Bartow Jr.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that one's coaching ability is not hereditary.
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http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8037092/Providence-hires-coach-Davis-away-from-Drake
What's strange is that they had their banquet just two days ago and yet were still able to pull this hire off. ::)
Providence just got tougher....think about it ..... PROVIDENCE hires a coach out of the midwest with a very strong basketball background. Providence.
I hope they run an ad in their local paper, at least in theirs they can tout that their coach took his previous team to the NCAA tournament with a team picked to finish nowhere near a NCAA level squad.
Honestly, I am not sure this is a great hire for Providence. He had one fantastic year, but he is completely out of his geographic element at Providence.
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Joey Meyer spent his life around basketball, too. Ask DePaul how that went.
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Joey Meyer spent his life around basketball, too. Ask DePaul how that went.
If Buzz is able to match what Joey Meyer's accomplished at DePaul, (226-153; 7 NCAAs; 6 NCAA wins; 6 straight 20 win seasons; 9 NBA Draft picks) you guys did hit a home run. I'm sure the DePaul fans that complained about Meyer's back in the day would give anything to have that late 80s and early 90s of DePaul basketball taking place now.
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Davis is a system guy who won with 2 walk-ons in his season at Drake. Major major question: can he recruit? A very risky hire by PC. Most guys can coach, but not all can recruit. Name of the game in the BEast.
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I remember Rod Strickland actually laughing at our players during the Dukiet years .
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Joey Meyer is more responsible for DePaul's glory years than Ray was. Do you think Mark Aquirre, Gary Garland and Clyde Bradshaw were recruited by Ray Meyer?
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Actually Aguirre went to DePaul because Al retired. Otherwise, he would have gone to MU. Joey was a clerk.
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Joey Meyer spent his life around basketball, too. Ask DePaul how that went.
DING DING DING DING.
He won with Daddy's players in a down year for the conference. Hardly has proved himself.
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Joey Meyer spent his life around basketball, too. Ask DePaul how that went.
DING DING DING DING.
He won with Daddy's players in a down year for the conference. Hardly has proved himself.
Yup. A risky hire for PC.......Davis got out of Drake just in time.
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As much as I dislike the Buzz hire, I honestly don't love this hire and don't see it as much an improvement over Buzz at all. And I can tell you that I didn't want Keno for MU. Lowery and Brownell were lightyears ahead of Buzz, but it's over now.
Then again, it's tough to move on when you see other colleges hiring guys many people thought much more highly of than our current guy. It keeps the wound from healing.
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Joey Meyer is more responsible for DePaul's glory years than Ray was. Do you think Mark Aquirre, Gary Garland and Clyde Bradshaw were recruited by Ray Meyer?
They may not have been recruited by Ray Meyer in the micro sense, but they went to DePaul because of Ray Meyer and what he built there. Ray's presence and accomplishments brought those guys to DU, not the smooth talking of one Joey Meyer.
That said, Joey got hosed by DePaul and stabbed in the back by Bill Bradshaw. He didn't ruin DePaul hoops. In fact, DePaul hoops remained pretty solid for several years post-Ray. Things took a turn for the worse when Bradshaw came in and began to undercut Joey's ability to recruit and bring in players who had been accepted under the prior administration. That, in turn, ruined Joey's credibility with high school coaches, particularly in the Chicago Public League. Joey was by no means a great coach, but he doesn't deserve all the blame, or even a majority of the blame, for DePaul's downfall.
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Joey did a lot of good things at DePaul....their demise was as much about their inability to support the basketball program with crappy facilities, terrible leadership, etc.
That being said, the ship sank under his watch and so he's going to take the heat for it.
As for the Providence hire, I think their fans are pretty excited right now...I don't see a lot of factional splits or second guessing, and that's half the battle.
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As for the Providence hire, I think their fans are pretty excited right now...I don't see a lot of factional splits or second guessing, and that's half the battle.
The guy who finally lands a prom date from girl #8 after his first seven choices rejected him is pretty excited also. Not so much because he got the most beautiful girl in school, but because at long last someone said 'yes."
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Let's not forget that Providence gave Keno $1 million per year to the national coach of the year (by one publication) and Drake was paying him $160K and promised to push him to $300K. This for a guy that took Drake to the NCAAs for the first time in 36 years.
No brainer in so many ways....Keno has to take that offer.
By the way, Providence has a senior laden class much like we do.
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Joey Meyer is more responsible for DePaul's glory years than Ray was. Do you think Mark Aquirre, Gary Garland and Clyde Bradshaw were recruited by Ray Meyer?
They may not have been recruited by Ray Meyer in the micro sense, but they went to DePaul because of Ray Meyer and what he built there. Ray's presence and accomplishments brought those guys to MU, not the smooth talking of one Joey Meyer.
That said, Joey got hosed by DePaul and stabbed in the back by Bill Bradshaw. He didn't ruin DePaul hoops. In fact, DePaul hoops remained pretty solid for several years post-Ray. Things took a turn for the worse when Bradshaw came in and began to undercut Joey's ability to recruit and bring in players who had been accepted under the prior administration. That, in turn, ruined Joey's credibility with high school coaches, particularly in the Chicago Public League. Joey was by no means a great coach, but he doesn't deserve all the blame, or even a majority of the blame, for DePaul's downfall.
Bill Bradshaw....worst AD I have ever met by a wide, wide, wide margin. TERRIBLE.
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As for the Providence hire, I think their fans are pretty excited right now...I don't see a lot of factional splits or second guessing, and that's half the battle.
The guy who finally lands a prom date from girl #8 after his first seven choices rejected him is pretty excited also. Not so much because he got the most beautiful girl in school, but because at long last someone said 'yes."
Definitely, because he also got an experienced girl to go home with and not one that doesn't know what she's doing. ;)
Give Providence credit, they kept swinging and all it did was land them the NCAA National Coach of the Year....wow, they sure did terrible. ::)
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I don't see a lot of factional splits or second guessing, and that's half the battle.
Half the battle that has been lost on our fanbase for awhile now. When Crean was here there were splits and TONS of second guessing.
And let's not even touch the nickname issue.
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Do you think MU would ever hire a coach with so many ties to Bo Ryan? Don't see the search committee ever getting past that with Keno.
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Look....guys
I am not fond of the Buzz hire. I agree that the process was flawed, and they had no need to rush...BUT....
It is done. Let's give the guy the guy the benefit of the doubt. We do not know what went on in the background. As those of us who attended MU know, what happens in O'Hara Hall stays in O'Hara Hall.
I'll be all over the BoT and Athletic Administration if this thing goes bad, but its time to quit bellyaching about that which we cannot change.
We are giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, we're unloading on our administration...not on Buzz. We're unloading on a process that was a joke. We're unloading on the fact this whole thing started 2 months ago when an AD with not ONE OUNCE of athletics background was put into place to run a Big East athletic department.
You reep what you sow and MU looks absolutely silly. But hey, all the negative press around the country and locally, everyone will view at as opposite day so we have that going for us. ::)
Quite frankly, the incompetence makes it even more unfair and difficult for Buzz. Puts him in a situation that he has to hit a home run. Why? Because they hired someone with his background. If MU had hired a Davis, a Les, etc, those coaches would have a little more latitude from the fans, etc because they've proven they can get it done. But when they go down the Buzz path and with the negative press that goes with it, you're virtually forcing him out of the gate to do nothing short of hit a home run by a guy that is very green. That's very tough, I feel bad for Buzz in that regard having to cut his teeth at this level as a head coach.
I think it is sad how you guys are ripping on the administration without having any idea of what the decision making process was. Were any of you involved with any of the meetings/discussions/interviews? Do any of you know anything about Buzz - what kind of person he is? What his plans are for the team and the program?
Sure - Cottingham doesn't ahve a ton of experience with this. But wasn't Bill Cords involved with this? Do we no longer trust his input?
We hired Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane from mid-major universities. They had a lot of coaching experience they could point to. How did all that work out?
Let it go guys or go somewhere else and start your own board. We know where you stand and expect you to tell us "I told you so" when it doesn't work out. It certainly seems like that is what you are hoping for.
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With this announcement and our two highest rated recruits opting out, can we all agree that the decision to hire Buzz Williams is getting worse with each passing day?
Holy cripes!
The guy has 1 year of head coaching experience and got a seven year contract worth 7 million???
As opposed to the 6 year, $7 million contract our current coach signed...the one with 1 year of head coaching experience that wasn't even a fraction as successful as Davis' one year?
Are you kidding me? Drake hadn't made the NCAA in like 45 years and they earned a 5 seed.
I didn't want Davis, but he would have been leaps and bounds better than what we ended up with.
yeah he earned a 5 seed, and got bounced in the first round... PRN, we all know you wouldn't be happy with that, I am not the least bit concerned about that hire by PC.
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I remember Rod Strickland actually laughing at our players during the Dukiet years .
Who wasn't...
Well, I guess I wasn't when a drunken Joe Nethen was chasing me around outside of McCormick Hall...but still....
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