Wants release - but not necesarily counting MU out?
As reported by Adam Zagoria
http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/2008/04/taylor-still-se.html
QuoteSt. Anthony senior guard Tyshawn Taylor and head coach Bob Hurley met with new Marquette coach Buzz Williams for several hours on Friday.
The result?
The 6-foot-3 Taylor still wants to be released from his National Letter of Intent.
"We asked for his release again today," Hurley said Monday by phone. "We sent another letter to the school. I hope they don't stall it. (Taylor) would like to make another visit or two. I have about 12 schools that have called. We kind of think he 'd like to visit two of them, and then not eliminate Marquette yet but be able to look at a couple of other schools."
A first-team All-State selection, Taylor considered Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech the first time around, but Hurley would not confirm that those were the ones he'd like to visit.
In the wake of former coach Tom Crean's departure to Indiana, Marquette released two players from their Letters of Intent last week, but not Taylor.
"When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt but we kind of figured Tom Crean would be able to handle a situation like this, but we are talking about a guy who coached at the University of New Orleans for one year, and that's his head coaching experience."
taylor gone
Perhaps, but he's not sold on that from the way I read it:
"We kind of think he 'd like to visit two of them, and then not eliminate Marquette yet but be able to look at a couple of other schools."
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2008, 03:29:29 PM
Wants release - but not necesarily counting MU out?
As reported by Adam Zagoria
http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/2008/04/taylor-still-se.html
Quote"When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt but we kind of figured Tom Crean would be able to handle a situation like this, but we are talking about a guy who coached at the University of New Orleans for one year, and that's his head coaching experience."
Wrong. He has only been a HEAD COACH for one year.
C O N T I N U I T Y...........
I don't blame Buzz for Taylor, but the continuity argument is looking rather forced at this point.
Hurley probably drilled him on b-ball strategy, playing time and game strategy.
Speaks volume for our new hire.
How can the logjam be much different than when he committed? It's not like they didn't know about DJ staying for this past season and possibly for his senior year. Hurley seems like a bigger jerk off by the minute.
I say let the guy go, he wouln't play next year and that frees up a spot for a better Gaurd to fill the hole next year. Also, it would give that player an extra year of eligibility.
This guy is acting like he's a top 10 player.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 03:35:13 PM
C O N T I N U I T Y...........
I don't blame Buzz for Taylor, but the continuity argument is looking rather forced at this point.
+1
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2008, 03:34:16 PM
Perhaps, but he's not sold on that from the way I read it:
"We kind of think he 'd like to visit two of them, and then not eliminate Marquette yet but be able to look at a couple of other schools."
The absolute key statement in the article is this..."When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
Translation.....MU hired a coach with one year of head coaching experience and I'm not putting my college career in the hands of such an inexperienced hire.
Simple as that. Maybe he still comes, but this is the danger of going in the direction we did without getting someone that had a number of years as a head man at the helm. It might do wonders for some kids but others it won't. For TT, it didn't. It will be up to Buzz to land a few kids just like assistant coaches have to when they become head coaches for the first time (thus why I didn't want an assistant coach anymore at our level...too much time it takes for them to get their foundation set).
Quote from: SaintPaulWarrior on April 14, 2008, 03:36:12 PM
Hurley probably drilled him on b-ball strategy, playing time and game strategy.
Speaks volume for our new hire.
I agree. I get the feeling in all of this that if it was up to TT, he'd be at MU next year. Hurley has his doubts, but after an interview with Buzz he didn't say "No f'in way". Instead, he told TT that they should at least visit a couple more schools, and then make a final decision.
Would TT be the first person to sign 2 LOIs for Marquette? :P
Quote from: 77fan88warrior on April 14, 2008, 03:36:21 PM
How can the logjam be much different than when he committed? It's not like they didn't know about DJ staying for this past season and possibly for his senior year. Hurley seems like a bigger jerk off by the minute.
Because the logjam portion of his comment is not meaningful, it's just a guise. In fact the logjam he cites is less now then it was when he committment (Scott gone, Nick gone). The paragraph before is why he isn't coming to Marquette.
Hurley made this decesion the moment Crean left. The only reason he is even leading us on is to get Taylor's name out there.
Screw it. He's not coming here. There was never any intention of him coming here once Crean left.
totally agree!
Why would Hurley recommend a kid go to a school with a coach with less experience than one of his assistant coaches.
And forget for a minute that this is a kid that signed a letter of intent, what is to stop high school coaches with talented players who HAVEN'T signed with anybody from thinking the same thing?
If I was a high school head coach, there's no way in hell I would point a kid toward Marquette at this point...and that's a sad statement. At least a lesser unknown like Crean had a solid track record at Michigan State and you knew what he was going to run. Here we have a guy who describes his style as "winning basketball."
THis hire would have been a step backwards from Mike Deane, much less Tom Crean.
Call Hurley a prick all you want, but he's run a successful program for years under tough circumstances and probably knows more about basketball than most college coaches out there. Clearly the inexperience is an issue for Hurley, and it's logical to think it will likely be an issue for a lot of other recruits/HS coaches out there. Buzz may be great, but the perception he's in over his head is sure going to make it tough for him. Unfortunately, there's really nothing to fall back on to rebut that contention either.
It's not Buzz's fault it appears we'll lose Taylor, but it sure doesn't help in establishing any credibility for Buzz.
And to think we were finally going to have a guard with some size.....Ouch!
hmmm. I'm gonna make a crazy guess and say we don't release Tyshawn. In a weird way, it seems that Hurley has been waiting for this to happen to one of his higher profile commits, just so he could make a big stink out of the system. I think Taylor wants to come here, but Hurley is saying "Let's just get your release so I can prove a point, and if you still want to go, you can always re-commit." I say Buzz calls his bluff. If we piss off Hurley, BFD. Not like Buzz recruits out there anyway...sadly.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2008, 03:34:16 PM
Perhaps, but he's not sold on that from the way I read it:
"We kind of think he 'd like to visit two of them, and then not eliminate Marquette yet but be able to look at a couple of other schools."
He's saying that to play nice.
Let him go. He doesn't want to be here.
Its over, he is gone.
unfortunately there is no way to win. If you force him to honor his LOI, you piss off potential recruits. If you let him go, he is gone and it seems like everyone is jumping ship.
lose/lose
Hurley looks more and more like a pimp in this sordid story.
Sorry, but I think now Hurley is forcing MU's hand just to get a point across to other coaches that come sniffing around his players.
Nothing, absolutely nothing that Hurley said is false. He's looking out for his kid. Good for him.
Let's just wait and see how this plays out but you have to think Mr. Taylor is moving on.
Good luck to him.
Quote from: lurch91 on April 14, 2008, 03:49:39 PM
Hurley look smore and more like a pimp in this sordid story.
Sorry, but I think now Hurley is forcing MU's hand just to get a point across to other coaches that come sniffing around his players.
I'm not sure how he is being a pimp. He only wants the best for his kids... sound familiar?
Why would he send one of his best players to an unproven coach? There is no logical reason that he would.
Misters Butler and Vanderbeken, your table is ready!
I understand that Coach Hurley is looking out for his own. but, I'm really surprised how he is playing this out in the media.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
The absolute key statement in the article is this..."When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
Translation.....MU hired a coach with one year of head coaching experience and I'm not putting my college career in the hands of such an inexperienced hire.
First, those are Hurley's words, not Taylor's. Simply put, Hurley is pimping his kid. He may honestly believe he has the kid's best interests at heart, and he very well might. But it's pretty clear by now that he is calling the shots on this kid's future or wants everyone to believe that he is calling the shot. Either way, the man is on a giant ego trip.
Second and more importantly, though, Hurley is lying. If experience were such an issue for him, how come he stood by as Mike Rosario committed to Rutgers and coach Fred Hill, who at the time had ONE YEAR of experience as a head coach. I'm not exactly sure what Hurley's issue is here, but it's not experience.
Good luck recruiting anyone else if you don't let him out of his LOI.
This really blows. I hate to say we're a sinking ship after next season, but there's a big hole in the boat and the sharks are circling.
As he falls all over himself trying to find " reasons" , Hurley is looking more and more the jerk.
Crean would have worked out the palying time even if DJ stayed and NW came? What? by keeping DJ, JM, Wes on the bench?
Buzz only having one year coaching experience? He can't even get that right. When KO and TC arrived neither had any head coaching experience.
Taylor wants to visit other schools? He didn't do that b/4 he comitted to MU?
As much as I hate to lose Taylor, time to cut the cord. A potential headache.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
The absolute key statement in the article is this..."When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
Translation.....MU hired a coach with one year of head coaching experience and I'm not putting my college career in the hands of such an inexperienced hire.
First, those are Hurley's words, not Taylor's. Simply put, Hurley is pimping his kid. He may honestly believe he has the kid's best interests at heart, and he very well might. But it's pretty clear by now that he is calling the shots on this kid's future or wants everyone to believe that he is calling the shot. Either way, the man is on a giant ego trip.
Second and more importantly, though, Hurley is lying. If experience were such an issue for him, how come he stood by as Mike Rosario committed to Rutgers and coach Fred Hill, who at the time had ONE YEAR of experience as a head coach. I'm not exactly sure what Hurley's issue is here, but it's not experience.
The difference is that those young men committed to coaches that were there. Not ones who showed up after they had signed their LOIs.
simple enough.
Hurley may be prickish, but I don't blame him based on the little experience the Williams has.
There's a big f-ing difference when Buzz is recruiting for a Gillespie or a Crean, versus Buzz recruiting for Buzz.
Continuity. Continuity.
As for whether they release him, it's a short-term vs. long-term goal for the school. Love him or hate him, Hurley is an institution and p!ssing him off would turn off the tap to a lot of potential recruits in the future. Is that fair to MU? No. But then again, the administration should have known this when they hired a coach with no experience (for all intents and purposes).
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
But it's pretty clear by now that he is calling the shots on this kid's future or wants everyone to believe that he is calling the shot. Either way, the man is on a giant ego trip.
Exactly, if Taylor wants out, let him inform the media, but Hurley seems to be running the show and calling all the shots. Thus, he's a pimp.
Hurley, might very well be a fine human being and looking out for Taylor, but this seems to be a bit more grandstaning then nessecary.
My guess is Hurley is being "nice" in citing the inexperience. What he really thinks would probably sound a lot worse given that he hasn't reacted this way to all asst coach hires. Seems to me he doesn't have any confidence in our asst coach turned head coach.
Hurley is incredibly well respected in coaching circles. No question this further damages MU's reputation/credibility.
The press calls him for comment, not vice versa.
If you have Seth Greenberg, Paul Hewitt or Buzz Williams calling on you, you may want to rethink your decision.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
The absolute key statement in the article is this..."When it comes down to it, Coach Williams has only been a basketball coach for one year," Hurley said. "We sat down for a couple hours, he talked to Ty and he spoke to me for an hour and a half. And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
Translation.....MU hired a coach with one year of head coaching experience and I'm not putting my college career in the hands of such an inexperienced hire.
First, those are Hurley's words, not Taylor's. Simply put, Hurley is pimping his kid. He may honestly believe he has the kid's best interests at heart, and he very well might. But it's pretty clear by now that he is calling the shots on this kid's future or wants everyone to believe that he is calling the shot. Either way, the man is on a giant ego trip.
Second and more importantly, though, Hurley is lying. If experience were such an issue for him, how come he stood by as Mike Rosario committed to Rutgers and coach Fred Hill, who at the time had ONE YEAR of experience as a head coach. I'm not exactly sure what Hurley's issue is here, but it's not experience.
Look at Buzz's resume vs Fred Hill's. Fred has been around in the east forever and Buzz has basically never been in the east recruiting or coaching. I'll bet there is a significant comfort level there between St. Anthony's and Hill then there is with Williams.
I don't disagree with you that Hurley is calling the shots, but I believe he's also convinced TT of the same. Hurley doesn't know Buzz and his one year of coaching hasn't wowed him to the point that he's comfortable in sending his recruit off to Milwaukee to play for Buzz.
He seems a lot more comfortable sending someone to play for Rutgers and wow, doesn't that just tell a story in and of itself.
Nick Williams is going to Arkansas and TT is NOT looking at IU. So, they are not ready to follow Crean to end of the earth. In addition, Crean lost Eric Gordon and other IU recruits.
You think TT would be coming if Sean Miller or Tony Bennett was hired? I doubt it.
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Sean Miller? yes. He's a proven winner. Bennett would scared people off for the first year or two but as long as he showed he's willing to play up-tempo ball, he'd be able to get the right kids for the B.East.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 14, 2008, 04:00:06 PM
The difference is that those young men committed to coaches that were there. Not ones who showed up after they had signed their LOIs.
simple enough.
Whether they were there or not doesn't change their level of experience. And Hurley chose not to make any such distinction.
If Hurley wanted to say it's just a matter of Taylor wanting out because he committed to Crean, a la Nick Williams, he could have said that. Instead, he went out of his way - again - to take a gratuitous shot at MU. If Hurley thought it so important that his kids play only for experienced coaches, he never would have stood by and watch Rosario commit to Rutgers.
Hurley's behavior through this whole thing has got me wondering whether he's upset that a certain son of his who is looking for a college head coaching gig didn't get a sniff from Marquette. Pure speculation on my part, but a good as guess as any for Hurley's sudden hostility toward MU.
Continuity, Continuity, Continuity.
3 guys gone who would have been gone if you hired Buzz or Biff. So, why not take a little more then 3 days?
Maybe it's time to offer Hurley Jr. in a package deal with TT...
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:09:53 PM
Hurley's behavior through this whole thing has got me wondering whether he's upset that a certain son of his who is looking for a college head coaching gig didn't get a sniff from Marquette. Pure speculation on my part, but a good as guess as any for Hurley's sudden hostility toward MU.
Buzz needs an assistant, hire Hurley's son and bring TT with him.
I honestly wish Buzz to be a GREAT coach!, But to be a Top 25 team and be unable to get a proven coach? If I had NBA hopes I wouldn't come here until he proves himself 2-3 years from now
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:09:53 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 14, 2008, 04:00:06 PM
The difference is that those young men committed to coaches that were there. Not ones who showed up after they had signed their LOIs.
simple enough.
Whether they were there or not doesn't change their level of experience. And Hurley chose not to make any such distinction.
If Hurley wanted to say it's just a matter of Taylor wanting out because he committed to Crean, a la Nick Williams, he could have said that. Instead, he went out of his way - again - to take a gratuitous shot at MU. Again, if Hurley thought it so important that his kids play only for experienced coaches, he never would have stood by and watch Rosario commit to Rutgers.
Hurley's behavior through this whole thing has got me wondering whether he's upset that a certain son of his who is looking for a college head coaching gig didn't get a sniff from Marquette. Pure speculation on my part, but as good as guess as any for Hurley's sudden hostility toward MU.
Agreed,
Hurley seems to misuse some of his logic when talking about why Tyler should be allowed to leave...with these latest comments he does come across as a pimp.
"My player is suddenly bigger and more popular than when he signed with MU and now I have an excuse to try and get him to a bigger program"
I think the only reason he doesn't go out and eliminate MU is that he wants to make sure TT can land somewhere like GT and if he can't he'll come back to MU with some sorry song and dance about how they wanted to make sure it was right after crean left, blah blah blah...
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
Continuity, Continuity, Continuity.
3 guys gone who would have been gone if you hired Buzz or Biff. So, why not take a little more then 3 days?
The banquet and ad would have been spoiled. ;)
In the wake of former coach Tom Crean's departure to Indiana, Marquette released two players from their Letters of Intent last week, but not Taylor.
Nick Williams is one. Who is the other one?
Quote from: larrym on April 14, 2008, 04:14:03 PM
In the wake of former coach Tom Crean's departure to Indiana, Marquette released two players from their Letters of Intent last week, but not Taylor.
Nick Williams is one. Who is the other one?
He meant SC
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (maybe)
The sky is falling!
Obviously our world famous, A#1 top notch recruiter failed to wow him. So he has little experience with the Xs & Os, describes his style as "winning" (as in 14-17), and now, when the chips are down, can't recruit. We are sooooo screwed.
I don't follow recruiting that much other than when I see which people we are looking at on the boards so I was wondering how often does a player's coach make all these comments and decesions like this?
Like I said I don't follow recruiting much but Hurley seems like the TC of high-school hoops making this show about himself. He may have the best interests of his player in mind but he should at least let Taylor speak for himself. It seems like whenever the two speak their stories don't match up. What does Taylor really want?
"And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
And he had one year when he was the lead recruiter last fall. He's had an extensive career as an assistant, and it's the assistants that are the ones who primarily work with guys when it comes to skill development. I don't buy it.
"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt.."
That is not only less than it was this fall, it will be gone after one year. Don't buy it.
Guys, it's not hard to see what's happening here. Marquette is not a big enough name for Hurley. He wasn't enthused at first, and now sees bigger names he can put on his resume. It looks better for him to send a kid to Florida as opposed to MU.
I really have to question if this is ultimately Tyshawn's call or Hurley's. Methinks it's Hurley's.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 14, 2008, 04:12:39 PM
Buzz needs an assistant, hire Hurley's son and bring TT with him.
TT appears to be a solid prospect. but not that solid. A little nepotism for the next Danny Manning? Sure. Dejuan Wagner? OK. Tyshawn Taylor? No thanks.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams (MAYBE)
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (maybe)
The sky is falling!
Fixed it for you, Williams is also a maybe. No LOI until November
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 14, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
"And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
And he had one year when he was the lead recruiter last fall. He's had an extensive career as an assistant, and it's the assistants that are the ones who primarily work with guys when it comes to skill development. I don't buy it.
"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt.."
But our head coach had 9 years here. And our new assistants are... who?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 04:20:27 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams (MAYBE)
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (maybe)
The sky is falling!
Fixed it for you, Williams is also a maybe. No LOI until November
So Erik Williams is going to back out of his verbal because the guy who got him to come to Marquette in the first place is now head coach? Doubt it.
EWilliams could back out. Happens all the time. But if he does, it won't be because of BWilliams.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 14, 2008, 04:19:05 PM
"And at the end of that, he still had only coached for one year."
Guys, it's not hard to see what's happening here. Marquette is not a big enough name for Hurley. He wasn't enthused at first, and now sees bigger names he can put on his resume. It looks better for him to send a kid to Florida as opposed to MU.
I really have to question if this is ultimately Tyshawn's call or Hurley's. Methinks it's Hurley's.
The reason that TT is going to MU is because Hurley called Crean and said he would fit in well. Repeat, Hurley called MU.
Maybe Hurley feels that since he lead TT to MU, he needs to take the lead on this.
Did anyone seriously NOT see this coming???
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (maybe)
The sky is falling!
Translated for rational thought:
1) A kid who has never played a Division I basketball game
2) A solid role player
3) An unknown recruit
4) Another unknown recruit with issues
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 14, 2008, 04:13:07 PM
"My player is suddenly bigger and more popular than when he signed with MU and now I have an excuse to try and get him to a bigger program"
I think this is the reason, more than anything else, that Hurley wants to re-open recruiting for Taylor. Crean's departure gave him a convenient excuse. In earlier reports, schools like Kansas and Florida were now reportedly interested.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 04:20:27 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams (MAYBE)
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (maybe)
The sky is falling!
Fixed it for you, Williams is also a maybe. No LOI until November
So Erik Williams is going to back out of his verbal because the guy who got him to come to Marquette in the first place is now head coach? Doubt it.
EWilliams could back out. Happens all the time. But if he does, it won't be because of BWilliams.
Wasn't Williams the one that got TT for Crean? Buzz got Williams for Crean as well, he certainly could back out...it's one thing to recruit for a Gillespie or a Crean, quite another to recruit for yourself.
And yes, he could back out but considering his background as a recruiter I don't anticipate that to be the case....right? I mean, as you said, if he can't close the deal he already closed.......oi vey. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there....so many more fun times in front of us first.
Hope we make the tourney next year because it will be our last in a long long time. An Acker/Cubillan starting backcourt in 09/10 does not bode well. Can we redshirt Mike Flory and bring him back? This is abysmal
Hurley's behavior through this whole thing has got me wondering whether he's upset that a certain son of his who is looking for a college head coaching gig didn't get a sniff from Marquette. Pure speculation on my part, but a good as guess as any for Hurley's sudden hostility toward MU.
so much for the nepotism suggestion....
oops, sorry, forgot link:
http://njmg.typepad.com/zagsblog/2008/04/hurley-returnin.html
Let the kid out of his LOI but also pull his scholarship offer. No more recruiting this kid... if wants to play the field, MU should eliminate him. You commit to the program... only have kids here that WANT to be here.
This marks the second time in a year that Hurley has turned down a D-1 offer to stay at the prep level.
Yeah, maybe we should have hired a HS coach. At least we would have got TC --CONTINUITY!
Quote from: LastWarrior on April 14, 2008, 04:37:09 PM
Let the kid out of his LOI but also pull his scholarship offer. No more recruiting this kid... if wants to play the field, MU should eliminate him. You commit to the program... only have kids here that WANT to be here.
Problem is, it's starting to look like the kids who want to come here can't play ball. The kids who can play are bolting.
Quote from: tonyreeder on April 14, 2008, 04:29:18 PM
Hope we make the tourney next year because it will be our last in a long long time. An Acker/Cubillan starting backcourt in 09/10 does not bode well. Can we redshirt Mike Flory and bring him back? This is abysmal
I wouldn't go that far, but he's going to have to nail some recruits to have that CONTINUITY
Hurley is no more hostile toward Marquette than its own fans are toward the administration that hired a complete question mark as its head coach.
We have 4 returning starters. 4 returning seniors and three guys who were named on all conference teams. We have an opportunity NEXT YEAR (not down the road, not 4 years hence) to advance significantly in the tournament. There will be no more experienced basketball team in the entire NCAA next year.
You would think that would BEG for a guy with some coaching background. A guy who can take a team that is borderline loaded next year and build on it. A guy who can take a team with an NCAA pedigree and, God willing, actually guide it through some close games by building on his COACHING (!) experience.
Instead, we hire a guy, who cannot explain his philosophy. We hire for "continuity." We hire a guy who reportedly weeps during press conferences and has exhibited curious behavior in the past. We proceed to lose at least one transfer -- with more reportedly possible -- and two recruits. CONTINUITY!!!!
Heading into a season that should be one of the most anticipated in YEARS, we're completely pissing away the senior years of James, McNeal, Matthews and Burke.
Can somebody PLEASE explain this hire to me? I mean, seriously.
This isn't just the worst coaching hire I've ever heard of, it might be the worst hire of any kind, in any line of work, that I've ever heard of considering the magnitude of the position.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 04:28:05 PM
...it's one thing to recruit for a Gillespie or a Crean, quite another to recruit for yourself.
This is such an important point to remember. You can be certain that one of Buzz's selling points when he was out on the road recruiting for MU was talking up the chance to come play for Tom Crean. Marquette's program has a lot going for it right now, but one of the key things was Crean's reputation. I know a lot of people here hate him, but you simply cannot deny that he has very high visibility (that's
why some of you hate him) and for whatever reason, people in the business respect him. If you think that all of Marquette's recruiting pitches didn't include a healthy dose of "come play for Crean" then you're delusional. That's why I'm not completely confident that Erik Williams will show up. I hope that Buzz has a solid enough relationship with him, but we'll see soon enough. Buzz sold Erik Williams on the entire Marquette package which -- at the time -- included Crean. I hope the rest of the package, sans Crean, is still attractive to him.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 14, 2008, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 04:28:05 PM
...it's one thing to recruit for a Gillespie or a Crean, quite another to recruit for yourself.
This is such an important point to remember. You can be certain that one of Buzz's selling points when he was out on the road recruiting for MU was talking up the chance to come play for Tom Crean. Marquette's program has a lot going for it right now, but one of the key things was Crean's reputation. I know a lot of people here hate him, but you simply cannot deny that he has very high visibility (that's why some of you hate him) and for whatever reason, people in the business respect him. If you think that all of Marquette's recruiting pitches didn't include a healthy dose of "come play for Crean" then you're delusional. That's why I'm not completely confident that Erik Williams will show up. I hope that Buzz has a solid enough relationship with him, but we'll see soon enough. Buzz sold Erik Williams on the entire Marquette package which -- at the time -- included Crean. I hope the rest of the package, sans Crean, is still attractive to him.
TOTALLY agree. Buzz might be a hell of a recruiter when he's selling a Gillespie or a Crean, but now he's selling BUZZ - as in I've been a head coach all of 1 year, and didn't have a winning record. My style is ...winning(?). What halfway decent kid is going to fall for that crap? Maybe if he has 2-3 good years at MU he might be able to recruit someone, but right now it's a total crapshoot for any kid looking at a school. No kid is going to risk his career on that.
PRN -- Get over yourself already. Good grief.
Quote from: MarkMiller on April 14, 2008, 04:54:45 PM
PRN -- Get over yourself already. Good grief.
Care to dispute ANYTHING in my post?
I'm surprised by anyone saying "this one hurts" about Taylor at this point in time.
I know I'm overly optimistic, but as soon as it was publicly known that TT wanted out of his LOI, any reasonable fan already had to figure he was gone. Period. So, the fact that he (they) now have talked to Buzz, and are still saying it's a possibility - sounds like good news to me.
Do I expect to get Taylor? No. But if he was counting MU out, he'd just say that and we'd be moving on to land someone else. Instead, he's leaving the door cracked open. Which is goo IMO.
Also, to those that are "worried' if Buzz loses TT...your posturing sounds worse than Hurley's. Try not to micro-evaluate this hire. Give him a month to do his job, and then give him a year. To be jumping on every single event at this point is narrow minded.
PRN -- I could dispute a lot in your post, but I know it would do no good. Your mind is already made up about Buzz Williams and the MU administration.
Was it a risky hire? Definitely.
Can Buzz Williams get it done? Definitely.
Will there be bumps along the way? Most assuredly.
Bottom line ... your negativity about the MU program and the MU administration is tiresome and, frankly, lacks credibility.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2008, 04:57:28 PM
I'm surprised by anyone saying "this one hurts" about Taylor at this point in time.
I know I'm overly optimistic, but as soon as it was publicly known that TT wanted out of his LOI, any reasonable fan already had to figure he was gone. Period. So, the fact that he (they) now have talked to Buzz, and are still saying it's a possibility - sounds like good news to me.
Does anyone reasonably think there is still a possibility? Of course he's gone. Hopefully Buzz realizes that and doesn't waste time and energy working on TT. Maybe he should head down to Texas and find someone to fill that scolly.
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 14, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 14, 2008, 04:13:07 PM
"My player is suddenly bigger and more popular than when he signed with MU and now I have an excuse to try and get him to a bigger program"
I think this is the reason, more than anything else, that Hurley wants to re-open recruiting for Taylor. Crean's departure gave him a convenient excuse. In earlier reports, schools like Kansas and Florida were now reportedly interested.
Two things:
1) Taylor is hardly quoted in that article. If Hurley has the best interests of Taylor at heart it should have read - that article doesn't talk about what Tyshau wants, just what Hurley wants:
Quote
Coach Williams met with Tyshaun thi past Friday. After their meeting I was able to talk to Coach Williams myself. Later that day Tyshaun and I were able to sit down and talk. At this time Tyshaun has asked that I request Marquette and Coach Williams to release him from his LOI."
2) If I were Buzz, I'd call Tyshaun and tell him personally that I was releasing him from the LOI, if ask/request/beg for him to make another official visit to Marquette so Marquette has the opportunity to "re-recruit him" as was originally conveyed by Hurley last week.
This was a bad hire. Not even considering Chris Lowery is just plain stupid. Lowery has a track record while Williams doesn't even have a record. Also the continuity argument is quite stupid. Anyone that has worked knows that when a new senior level(in this case a coach) person comes in there will be quite a lot of turnover. But the buzz lovers had to put that stupid arguement forward . . well that arguement just got shot in the head.
Quote from: MarkMiller on April 14, 2008, 05:04:14 PM
PRN -- I could dispute a lot in your post, but I know it would do no good. Your mind is already made up about Buzz Williams and the MU administration.
Was it a risky hire? Definitely.
Can Buzz Williams get it done? Definitely.
Will there be bumps along the way? Most assuredly.
Bottom line ... your negativity about the MU program and the MU administration is tiresome and, frankly, lacks credibility.
You may think I lack credibility, but there is really nothing disputable in my post.
To your point about it being a risky hire, I ask why? Why make a risky hire when you consider the team we have coming back? What is the difference between "risky" and "questionable?"
When you have a stacked class of seniors returning -- a true rarity in college basketball -- is it a good decision to bring in an unproven and unknown head coach? And if it's not a good decision, is it not a BAD decision?
You can blow sunshine up MU's backside all you want, but this is as bad as it gets. And the Taylor situation is only the start, I'm afraid.
To be competitive in the Big East, who do you think Buzz Williams is going to have recruit against? If you agree the answer is Bruce Weber, Bo Ryan, Thad Matta, Toms Izzo and Crean and coaches of other Big East teams -- then how is it you think Buzz Williams will compete with his resume? What high school coach would steer a player to Marquette?
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 14, 2008, 04:13:07 PM
"My player is suddenly bigger and more popular than when he signed with MU and now I have an excuse to try and get him to a bigger program"
Exactly, and when he goes to Kansas or Florida we will see that the playing time issue was a load of crap.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 14, 2008, 04:46:24 PM
Hurley is no more hostile toward Marquette than its own fans are toward the administration that hired a complete question mark as its head coach.
We have 4 returning starters. 4 returning seniors and three guys who were named on all conference teams. We have an opportunity NEXT YEAR (not down the road, not 4 years hence) to advance significantly in the tournament. There will be no more experienced basketball team in the entire NCAA next year.
You would think that would BEG for a guy with some coaching background. A guy who can take a team that is borderline loaded next year and build on it. A guy who can take a team with an NCAA pedigree and, God willing, actually guide it through some close games by building on his COACHING (!) experience.
Instead, we hire a guy, who cannot explain his philosophy. We hire for "continuity." We hire a guy who reportedly weeps during press conferences and has exhibited curious behavior in the past. We proceed to lose at least one transfer -- with more reportedly possible -- and two recruits. CONTINUITY!!!!
Heading into a season that should be one of the most anticipated in YEARS, we're completely pissing away the senior years of James, McNeal, Matthews and Burke.
Can somebody PLEASE explain this hire to me? I mean, seriously.
This isn't just the worst coaching hire I've ever heard of, it might be the worst hire of any kind, in any line of work, that I've ever heard of considering the magnitude of the position.
Can't argue with one point.
Continuity?
Lost (where we had to lose one): Williams, SC and TT (90%). TT is a loss, but a combo guard, not a pure PG.
Saved (as it looks today): DJ, TM (looks like he was gone with TC), PH (Same), JM (80%).
Gained: (rumored) Butler (recruited by Miss St., Kentucky), Vanderbeken (UCONN)...so we get bigger next year and more experienced for transition year. Announce their signing with TT's release if possible.
dCube and Mo can play point with a 6"6" Butler or E. Williams at the 2. Is that a "doomsday" scenario? TC has four players at IU and his released recruits won't touch him. That is doomsday.
Also, when will the Hurleys send their stars our way? TT wasn't a hot commodity to start. Now, he questions MU even before Buzz is hired? Truth is, we took their development projects, and he is now spiking for a release on a guy who moved up the charts due to his teammates. Cut bait and selectively close them off. It can work both ways.
PRN -- You make some valid points, points I'm sure Steve Cottingham and others considered. Bottom line ... Cottingham, Fr. Wild, Bill Cords, Doc Rivers, Ulyice Payne, John Bergstrom and others met with Buzz Williams for days felt he was the right guy for the job.
The other bottom line -- it's hard to take your public rants serious because that's all you do is rant. Smile once in a while. :)
I still cannot believe the administration would even listen to Doc Rivers? He might have one of the best team in the NBA NOW but otherwise he hasn't done a thing except lose a lot of games and not get past the first round of the NBA playoffs. John Bergstrom sells cars so he has a lot of credibility too!!
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 04:25:15 PM
Translated for rational thought:
1) A kid who has never played a Division I basketball game
2) A solid role player
3) An unknown recruit
4) Another unknown recruit with issues
1. Kind of like TT and NW, except thought of much more highly. Ironic some would bemoan the losses of some, but downplay EWilliams as an uknown.
2. Time will tell
3. Time will tell. Good enough for Miss. State.
4. What issues? Good enough for UConn.
PRN:
You claimed for a long time that you were a fan of Marquette, but not of Crean. Now, you immediately turn on Coach Williams and he hasn't even been on the job for two weeks. The two recruits that are asking for their release, asked for it immediately. It really has very little to do with our new coach.
It is plain to see that you are not a supporter of Marquette, but a very good whiner and critic of the program. Being "negative" must just be part of your nature.
Common sense would tell the average intellect to give Buzz a year to coach, recruit, and run the rest of the program before you judge him so negatively. I believe this is going to be a good year in many ways. Then again, I am a Marquette fan, and I will stay positive unless someone proves me to think another way. You my friend should stay away from any cliffs.
GO MU!
Getting back to the title of thread...seriously everyone, TT is someone you have seen 7 clips of on Youtube, and because he is not coming, the end of the world is here???
CRIPES!
PRN is a fan of the program. He doesn't eat the crap that a lot of people spew. It's hard to get behind a guy that really hasn't done anything when there were better canidates out there. In addition, I fail to see the upside? What is the upside that he can actually coach and recruit. I think we could have gotten that with an outside hire.
Quote from: hoops12 on April 14, 2008, 05:36:17 PM
PRN:
You claimed for a long time that you were a fan of Marquette, but not of Crean. Now, you immediately turn on Coach Williams and he hasn't even been on the job for two weeks. The two recruits that are asking for their release, asked for it immediately. It really has very little to do with our new coach.
It is plain to see that you are not a supporter of Marquette, but a very good whiner and critic of the program. Being "negative" must just be part of your nature.
Common sense would tell the average intellect to give Buzz a year to coach, recruit, and run the rest of the program before you judge him so negatively. I believe this is going to be a good year in many ways. Then again, I am a Marquette fan, and I will stay positive unless someone proves me to think another way. You my friend should stay away from any cliffs.
GO MU!
I think you're missing PRNs point here.
He is not bashing Buzz but the main reason given for his hire was continuity. Now, that seems to be a question and we have a very visible HS BBall coach publicly questioning the hire. Buzz is going to have to show some results quickly to quiet concerns and give recruits and their coaches confidence in his program.
Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.
Quote from: MUSF on April 14, 2008, 05:46:20 PM
Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.
Who are these sure things of which you speak?
Quote from: Hurley date=1208212577
"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt but we kind of figured Tom Crean would be able to handle a situation like this," Hurley said. "But we are talking about a guy who coached at the University of New Orleans for one year, and that's his head coaching experience."
Can someone just give Buzz a chance? I mean, Crean leaving did more to "unlogjam" our backcourt (bye SC and Nick Williams) than DJ leaving, which was probably the only departure everyone possibly foresaw a month ago.
Oops...didn't realize Cracked Sidewalks said the exact same thing. Anyways...we picked up Butler and Vanderbeken? Wait, what? News to me. I'll needa read through these threads.
so, he doesn't come...no surprise there.
Hurley, cloaked in the veil of " I'm just looking out for my kid" is using this opportunity to grandstand on a national stage and show everybody just how important he thinks he is.
Citing "coaching inexperience" is going out of the way to pulbicly harm the MU program. Why not just say that
TT took another look at his options and leave it at that. This public dissing of MU is what is pissing me off about how Hurley has handled the situation.
I say, cut 'em loose, both player and coach, wish 'em well, and on to the the next prospects.
AS for PRN's comments, he is not a fan of the program, he is a fan of PRN and he is in his glory when he can tell you "I told you so" and can revel in what he perceives to be the misfortune of others. I'll bet he drives a red convertible with signs on the side that say "look at me, look at me, look at me".
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: MUSF on April 14, 2008, 05:46:20 PM
Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.
Who are these sure things of which you speak?
Sure thing is a bad choice of words. Known commodity would have been better. Specifically, a proven head coach or a top assistant with more/better experience. I know you will argue the point of more/better experience. I followed the KO v. Buzz thread. Agree to disagree.
Before any of you start screaming MU hater, realize that I am not saying Buzz is a bad hire. I am simply saying it was a risky hire that I hope pays off. I, and others, are simply wondering aloud whether the risk was necessary or not.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 14, 2008, 05:54:45 PM
AS for PRN's comments, he is not a fan of the program, he is a fan of PRN and he is in his glory when he can tell you "I told you so" and can revel in what he perceives to be the misfortune of others. I'll bet he drives a red convertible with signs on the side that say "look at me, look at me, look at me".
You don't like people who drive "look at me" cars? Would a gold Hummer qualify? It wasn't too long ago that Crean thought those were a good idea as a perk to keep our assistants from running off. I'm sure you agreed.
Now one of those assistants is our head coach.
You're right about one thing, I am a HUGE fan of myself.
Look, I wouldn't get so worked up if I wasn't a Marquette fan. And I have nothing personal against Buzz Williams. I would have been perfectly happy to see him as head coach at TCU or as a lead assistant at Indiana (or Marquette). I just think it's an absolute JOKE that our head coach has no real business trying to recruit against Dayton or Wright State, much less Louisville, Wisconsin, or even DePaul.
I'm not going to pretend to be excited about his hire, like a lot of people are. It was a horrible, horrible decision and indicates to me that whoever made the final call is incapable of thinking things through rationally. And I don't care if it was Fr. Wild. He's not above reproach, either!
I've said it once and I'll say it again, Buzz Williams will not last more than 4 years at Marquette. Let's just hope we don't need a Geiger Counter when he leaves.
don't know about gold hummers.
don't care about gold hummers.
am amazed at your need for attention. We all know you don't like the hire. You've made your point. At ease.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 05:32:16 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 04:25:15 PM
Translated for rational thought:
1) A kid who has never played a Division I basketball game
2) A solid role player
3) An unknown recruit
4) Another unknown recruit with issues
1. Kind of like TT and NW, except thought of much more highly. Ironic some would bemoan the losses of some, but downplay EWilliams as an uknown.
2. Time will tell
3. Time will tell. Good enough for Miss. State.
4. What issues? Good enough for UConn.
I think there should be some amount of bemoaning when the top 2 players of our recruiting class will not attend MU.
You throw statements like "thought of much more highly" around as if it's fact. How can you determine that? Each person values a recruit differently. Having seen Taylor play, I know how good he can be. What we are upset about is where this leaves MU. Our guard situation is going to go from ridiculous talented to ridiculous thin whereas it looked like Taylor/Williams would make it a smooth transition.
The last 3 are absolute truth on my part. Visiting a school does mean a recruit is "good enough" for so-and-so. It's April. Most spring signings are reaches. Most are kids who have underperformed elsewhere and are perceived to be better since they spent a year out of the spotlight.
You, as well as I and every other MU fun, knows very little of Butler and Vanderbeeken. Hell, 99.9% of MU fans probably didn't even know these two people existed prior to 10 days ago. Therefore, they are unknown.
And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.
OK, so Taylor does not come to MU. He is a nice prospect, but not highly rated as a Chalmers, Bayless, Collison or even Johnnie Flynn. Scouts had him as the 15th best Point Guard and Rivals had him as the 21st ranked Point Guard. Would Taylor have added height to the MU point guard spot, yes. Could he have made strides to show his rankings were undeserved, maybe. But he doesn't want to come to MU, and between him and Coach Hurley, have basically held MU hostage over the past two weeks. This after two guards leave the program, creating more playing time for him. Enough of this. Get a JUCO guard or hold the spot for 2009 recruits. The seniors should be able to carry the team this year, but as noted previously, 2009 will be the make or break year.
The identities of those highly rated players considering MU have been published in previous threads. If the reason Buzz was hired was in fact to recruit and SIGN these 2009 players, he must identify and hire his staff immediately. It has taken too long, especially now during the contact period. Where is his staff? He can't be doing this all by himself, if he is, he just wasted alot of time on one PG recruit and a vocal HS coach.
The scary thought is that the Hurley quote "He's only been a coach for one year" is going to make its way around the AAU programs and other AAU coaches/mentors of these young athletes via the media or word of mouth. That could be devastating to the recruiting process.
Get a staff in place now, hit the road, and use the recruiting ability that Buzz was supposedly hired for. This has been a really strange and disappointing last two weeks and I hope it doesn't relate to years lost. I am not optimistic today.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 14, 2008, 06:17:34 PM
don't know about gold hummers.
don't care about gold hummers.
am amazed at your need for attention. We all know you don't like the hire. You've made your point. At ease.
My "need for attention?" Why the need to attack my character because you disagree with my opinion?
And this "you've made your point" mentality dumbfounds me as well. Have you not also made your point that you disagree with my stance? Why keep rebutting? I know your point of view. Why do you keep repeating yourself?
Quote from: nyg on April 14, 2008, 06:20:26 PM
OK, so Taylor does not come to MU. He is a nice prospect, but not highly rated as a Chalmers, Bayless, Collison or even Johnnie Flynn. Scouts had him as the 15th best Point Guard and Rivals had him as the 21st ranked Point Guard. Would Taylor have added height to the MU point guard spot, yes. Could he have made strides to show his rankings were undeserved, maybe. But he doesn't want to come to MU, and between him and Coach Hurley, have basically held MU hostage over the past two weeks. This after two guards leave the program, creating more playing time for him. Enough of this. Get a JUCO guard or hold the spot for 2009 recruits. The seniors should be able to carry the team this year, but as noted previously, 2009 will be the make or break year.
The identities of those highly rated players considering MU have been published in previous threads. If the reason Buzz was hired was in fact to recruit and SIGN these 2009 players, he must identify and hire his staff immediately. It has taken too long, especially now during the contact period. Where is his staff? He can't be doing this all by himself, if he is, he just wasted alot of time on one PG recruit and a vocal HS coach.
The scary thought is that the Hurley quote "He's only been a coach for one year" is going to make its way around the AAU programs and other AAU coaches/mentors of these young athletes via the media or word of mouth. That could be devastating to the recruiting process.
Get a staff in place now, hit the road, and use the recruiting ability that Buzz was supposedly hired for. This has been a really strange and disappointing last two weeks and I hope it doesn't relate to years lost. I am not optimistic today.
Great summary, nyg. I hope we get Butler and Vanderbeken. Two 6'10 guys wouldn't hurt. I'm sure our senior class will be more than solid for us next year, but definitely need those role players. Hopefully come 2009-2010, we'll solid 1s and 2s.
We'll see though. Show us what you got, Buzz! I got your back, for now, but don't let me down and validate everyone else's bitching!
those of you questioning PRN's fandom need to take a step back.
People who question leadership usually are the ones who truly care about the situation. Everyone that is just going with the flow and blindly following whatever the administration is doing are really just zealots of a cult.
Facts are facts. PRN made points that no one here has been able to refute. Instead, he has had his fandom questioned, and has been personally attacked. How mature.
Dissent is a GOOD thing, folks.
PRN, ignore the detractors, keep up the good fight, and the rest of us who are rational, open minded, 2+2=4 kind of people, will continute to agree.
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 06:18:02 PM
And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.
Oh, please. Don't go around tossing out implications about people then lack the uh ... ability ... back it up. You claimed he had issues. I've heard nothing of the sort. Please tell me what they are or admit you don't know anything about it.
As for "good enough" ... Butler was offered by Mississippi State coming out of high school, so this spring signing bit is inaccurate.
Same with Vandebeken, who signed with Iowa out of high school and also was recruited by UCLA, Cal and Oregon State.
Try as you might to portray them otherwise, these guys aren't the scrap heap. Either would be a good get for MU.
Because no amount of your whining and complaining is going to change who our coach is. The MU athletic department is not going to rescind it's decision no matter how many times you post that you are unhappy with it. So, what's the point? Really?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: MUSF on April 14, 2008, 05:46:20 PM
Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.
Who are these sure things of which you speak?
We don't know, the banquet and ad were getting ready so we cut the search short. ?-(
But for names....Gregory, Brownwell, Willard, Weber, Les, etc, etc....Buzz was still there a week later......
Oh well. This upcoming year is going to be interesting. Pray the Texas connection works and Global Warming kicks in big time (another drop in temps this year) as we need to warm up Milwaukee for these kids. I think I'll buy another SUV. ;)
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 06:52:59 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 06:18:02 PM
And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.
Oh, please. Don't go around tossing out implications about people then lack the uh ... ability ... back it up. You claimed he had issues. I've heard nothing of the sort. Please tell me what they are or admit you don't know anything about it.
As for "good enough" ... Butler was offered by Mississippi State coming out of high school, so this spring signing bit is inaccurate.
Same with Vandebeken, who signed with Iowa out of high school and also was recruited by UCLA, Cal and Oregon State.
Try as you might to portray them otherwise, these guys aren't the scrap heap. Either would be a good get for MU.
I think Coobey meant to say ....the issues...you know....he's a Canuck.
;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 09:46:19 PM
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 06:52:59 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 06:18:02 PM
And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.
Oh, please. Don't go around tossing out implications about people then lack the uh ... ability ... back it up. You claimed he had issues. I've heard nothing of the sort. Please tell me what they are or admit you don't know anything about it.
As for "good enough" ... Butler was offered by Mississippi State coming out of high school, so this spring signing bit is inaccurate.
Same with Vandebeken, who signed with Iowa out of high school and also was recruited by UCLA, Cal and Oregon State.
Try as you might to portray them otherwise, these guys aren't the scrap heap. Either would be a good get for MU.
I think Coobey meant to say ....the issues...you know....he's a Canuck.
;)
"I moved here from Canada and they think I'm slow cuz I talk funny, eh?"
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 06:52:59 PM
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on April 14, 2008, 06:18:02 PM
And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.
Oh, please. Don't go around tossing out implications about people then lack the uh ... ability ... back it up. You claimed he had issues. I've heard nothing of the sort. Please tell me what they are or admit you don't know anything about it.
As for "good enough" ... Butler was offered by Mississippi State coming out of high school, so this spring signing bit is inaccurate.
Same with Vandebeken, who signed with Iowa out of high school and also was recruited by UCLA, Cal and Oregon State.
Try as you might to portray them otherwise, these guys aren't the scrap heap. Either would be a good get for MU.
Ask Mark Miller. He's got a lot more credibility then most when it comes to reporting the truth. He may know something about Vanderbeeken. Maybe not. ?-(
You don't think they're scrap heap and I don't think their stars. Let's meet in the middle and say they could top out at solid role players (Dan Fitzgerald) or bottom out at flunkie (Trend Blackledge -- pretty dunks; not much else).
The spring signing bit isn't inaccurate at all. When will they sign? In April/May. What season are those months? Spring.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 14, 2008, 09:46:19 PM
I think Coobey meant to say ....the issues...you know....he's a Canuck.
;)
Richard Shaw.
Say no more.
You are all making the assumption that Williams preferred keeping Taylor. Maybe he rather have the two JC guys and he could only get them as a package. I am sure when he was hired he was told the first focus was current players and signed recruits. Assuming we lose no one else and we get Butler and the Vanderbeeken, I do not see that as such a bad outcome.
Two years from now
Seniors
Aker, Culliban, Hayward
Juniors
Mbakwe, Butler, Vanderbeeken, Hazel, Fulcie
Sophomore
Tulie
Freshmen
Williams & 3 others
Jamie Vanderbeken doesn't look like a player, but does look eerily familiar:
(http://www.hotelsoftherichandfamous.com/images/stars/james-van-der-beek.jpg)
Quote from: esotericmindguy on April 14, 2008, 03:36:26 PM
I say let the guy go, he wouln't play next year and that frees up a spot for a better Gaurd to fill the hole next year. Also, it would give that player an extra year of eligibility.
This guy is acting like he's a top 10 player.
Yeah, because it'll be real easy to sign a top 10 point guard for the 09 recruiting class when you have no inroads whatsoever with any players for that class. He may/will go, but getting a better player is not something I would bet on at this point.
Bob Hurley doesn't get a crap about his kids, he is an out-and-out pimp. He is, after all, a glorified gym teacher.
Quote from: TJ on April 15, 2008, 09:08:32 AM
Yeah, because it'll be real easy to sign a top 10 point guard for the 09 recruiting class when you have no inroads whatsoever with any players for that class. He may/will go, but getting a better player is not something I would bet on at this point.
Taylor isn't a top 10 point guard.
MU is and has been involved for a long time with a very good 2009 point guard named Johnny Lacy from Bay View HS.
That's no guarantee, but Tyshawn Taylor is not of the quality that will make or break a program. He's a solid, three-star, top-150 recruit. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sheesh, people act like we just lost out on a McDonald's AA. Good player who would contribute? Absolutely. Star player? Very likely no.
Quote from: bilsu on April 14, 2008, 10:49:44 PM
You are all making the assumption that Williams preferred keeping Taylor. Maybe he rather have the two JC guys and he could only get them as a package. I am sure when he was hired he was told the first focus was current players and signed recruits. Assuming we lose no one else and we get Butler and the Vanderbeeken, I do not see that as such a bad outcome.
I've been thinking the same thing. It something like that works out, it could actually be better for next year to have some more size to go with the 3 amigos. And if we have a great year next year, it could help spring board more success going forward.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2008, 04:15:52 PM
Quote from: MarquetteFan94 on April 14, 2008, 04:07:02 PM
Good lord....our worst nightmares are coming true. We better enjoy next season....our run of seasons above .500 may well be coming to an end. What kind of team are we going to have in two years? Lazar will need to average 40 ppg as a Senior.
I still can't believe what's happening.
Erik Williams
Joe Fulce
Jimmy Butler (maybe)
Jamie Vanderbeken (Going to Iowa State)
The sky is falling!