how is that for a kick in the 'nads.......I am here in ORD this morning and look over to see Seltzer and Buckley awaiting an outbound American Eagle flight to Mobile
Lovely
No surprise. I glad people have now finally seen Crean for what he's always been.
This will still be a tough sell with the NCAA sanctions on the horizon.
We did release him right? I don't see anything wrong with TC recruiting him for Indiana if that is in fact what he is doing.
In all the coaching moves over the years .. what's the standard LOI release .. and how often are conditions put on the release? Is it normal to grant unconditional releases? Paging Steve Cottingham...
he was a gracious guy.........here's the net:
1. They're definitely going after Nick Williams, leaving for Mobile in 30 minutes.
2. He thinks MU will do well with Buzz, would not comment on the notion that MU panicked with the hire. Said 'everything happened so fast'
3. He thinks Buzz will get great talent into MU - was not sure about Tyshawn Taylor but insinuated that Hurley was posturing more than anything (my interpretation)
4. The gap he thinks Buzz will have to overcome is the sheer scope of the job. Seltzer says Buzz will do well with running the program, but the challenge at private university like MU is that the coach is the most visible, sought after person on campus and therefore gets involved in just about everything....at least that is what Tom did. That broad responsibility/participation/visibility at MU is one u don't have at state schools (revealing comment).
5. Bennie said he'll make sure to beat Bucky.
Quote from: NYWarrior on April 13, 2008, 10:17:03 AM
he was a gracious guy.........here's the net:
1. They're definitely going after Nick Williams, leaving for Mobile in 30 minutes.
2. He thinks MU will do well with Buzz, would not comment on the notion that MU panicked with the hire.
3. He thinks Buzz will get great talent into MU - was not sure about Tyshawn Taylor but insinuated that Hurley was posturing more than anything (my interpretation)
4. The gap he thinks Buzz will have to overcome is the sheer scope of the job. Seltzer says Buzz will do well with running the program, but the challenge at private university like MU is that the coach is the most visible, sought after person on campus and therefore gets involved in just about everything....at least that is what Tom did. That's broad responsibility/participation/visibility at MU, one u don't have at state schools (revealing comment).
5. Bennie said he'll make sure to beat Bucky.
I think Crean has to go after Williams. His roster at IU is depleted and he needs quality players. We certainly canot be happy about it, but IU has plenty of holes to fill. hopefully Buzz can keep in in the fold as williams most certainly will step into a great situation with the amigos graduating next year.
Your point four is interesting. That was part of the reason O'Neill bolted. He was not fond of the alumni ass kissing. But, it is what you make of it. Plenty of coaches at private schools balance that just fine.
Too many Williams' around here. Buzz Williams is here. Nick Williams is gone. Erik Williams is a rising HS senior who has verballed.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 13, 2008, 10:29:10 AM
Too many Williams' around here. Buzz Williams is here. Nick Williams is gone. Erik Williams is a rising HS senior who has verballed.
hopefully we end up with two!!!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 13, 2008, 10:29:10 AM
Too many Williams' around here. Buzz Williams is here. Nick Williams is gone. Erik Williams is a rising HS senior who has verballed.
anything above 2 is too high for you to count to? 8-)
this is low, very low.
TC and staff are kidding themselves if they don't think the pressure at IU will be as bad as it is at a private school like MU. Give me break. If you hit as many final fours as Izzo did for a few years your perception may be off. Even with the PR spin TC is capable of, at $2.3 million a season he's not going to have a lot of alum. feeling sorry for him or being understanding of the sanctions placed on him.
Is is possible TC will even be as successful as Bo at UW? Will IU alum. settle for a $2.3 million coach failing to do anything big in the NCAA (meaning beat a team better than a 9 seed)? My though is he'll bring IU back to a strong program, showing improvement year after year, but never to an elite program, and that will keep him around for 5-10 years before IU ditches TC for a better coach. The way he handled leaving MU; I'd just like to see it happen sooner rather than later.
While the Big 10 seems to have a lack of athletes, we've seen what TC does against the coaches of UW, MI, and MSU...not too stellar.
As for restrictions on Williams release....I'm glad MU didn't do that to the kid. He worked hard to get where he is. If he wants to play for TC so be it....don't make the decision for him.
Quote from: NYWarrior on April 13, 2008, 09:59:24 AM
how is that for a kick in the 'nads.......I am here in ORD this morning and look over to see Seltzer and Buckley awaiting an outbound American Eagle flight to Mobile
Lovely
Please explain ... I thought TC was on a self-imposed gag rule and could not recruit off campus. Surely that applies to his assistants. Further, he is out on-campus visits as well.
So, how can Tim and Bennie be heading to Mobile? Will IU have to start a new coaching search tomorrow?
i was thinking the same thing about the recruiting ban in place at IU. Whatever the case, it certainly looks like Judas is continuing to betray us.
This is more than a little shady, yet many here still defend their ex boyfirend who smacked them around.
Buzz better put a fence around Erik Williams. Slimy will be after him next.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 13, 2008, 10:57:26 AM
Please explain ... I thought TC was on a self-imposed gag rule and could not recruit off campus. Surely that applies to his assistants. Further, he is out on-campus visits as well.
So, how can Tim and Bennie be heading to Mobile? Will IU have to start a new coaching search tomorrow?
Are they actually assistants yet? Are they currently employees of IU? I don't know, just haven't seen anything 'official' yet. If not, this is even more shady than of they were.
I think Crean is as slimy as the next, but I don't see the big deal with this. The guy asked out of his committment from Marquette and Crean has a relationship with him, why wouldn't he go after him?
I think the self-imposed ban only applies to the head coach and not the assistants.
I expected Crean to make this move. Why not? You already have done the homework on the kid and got him to commit. It's just steering him in another direction.
And I think IU's pressure WILL BE great. But they're going to pay Crean a cool $4-5 million the first two years just to concentrate on the future. Crean's got it made this year - though his team's gonna get killed - because the IU fans know they're going to suffer one to have many more good ones.
With all the other ridiculous rules the NCAA has, I am surprised they don't have one to clean up the perceived sliminess. What I mean is, I would like to see a rule implemented, that when a Coach leaves a particular school, they are not allowed under ANY circumstances to recruit any players that they had offered a scholarship to at their previous school. If they hadn't officially offered that player a scholarship but were just recruiting them, then it's fair game.
This would accomplish a couple of things IMO.
1. It would make some of these coaches think twice about jumping to the next great job offer that came available and leaving a team of players and recruits hanging with uncertain futures.
2. It makes the kids that sign LOI realize that you are committing to the school and NOT the coach. If there was a rule in place like this is would really make kids think about EVERYTHING that goes into signing a LOI and that if the Coach leaves before you get to school, you will NOT under any circumstances be allowed to be recruited by that Coach at his new school.
If kids still want their release after a Coach leaves that's ok, but they cannot go play for that Coach wherever he is. This would be somewhat similar to granting a kid a conditional release, only this way it take the onus off the school and they don't have a situation where they get painted in a bad light because they made a kids release conditional, or don't grant the release at all.
Quote from: muguru on April 13, 2008, 11:49:08 AM
This would accomplish a couple of things IMO.
1. It would make some of these coaches think twice about jumping to the next great job offer that came available and leaving a team of players and recruits hanging with uncertain futures.
2. It makes the kids that sign LOI realize that you are committing to the school and NOT the coach. If there was a rule in place like this is would really make kids think about EVERYTHING that goes into signing a LOI and that if the Coach leaves before you get to school, you will NOT under any circumstances be allowed to be recruited by that Coach at his new school.
I would hope these two points would impact coaches leaving and kids committing, but this has been going on for as long as the dollar bill has been luring coaches to new positions.
Quote from: muguru on April 13, 2008, 11:49:08 AM
With all the other ridiculous rules the NCAA has, I am surprised they don't have one to clean up the perceived sliminess. What I mean is, I would like to see a rule implemented, that when a Coach leaves a particular school, they are not allowed under ANY circumstances to recruit any players that they had offered a scholarship to at their previous school. If they hadn't officially offered that player a scholarship but were just recruiting them, then it's fair game.
This would accomplish a couple of things IMO.
1. It would make some of these coaches think twice about jumping to the next great job offer that came available and leaving a team of players and recruits hanging with uncertain futures.
2. It makes the kids that sign LOI realize that you are committing to the school and NOT the coach. If there was a rule in place like this is would really make kids think about EVERYTHING that goes into signing a LOI and that if the Coach leaves before you get to school, you will NOT under any circumstances be allowed to be recruited by that Coach at his new school.
If kids still want their release after a Coach leaves that's ok, but they cannot go play for that Coach wherever he is. This would be somewhat similar to granting a kid a conditional release, only this way it take the onus off the school and they don't have a situation where they get painted in a bad light because they made a kids release conditional, or don't grant the release at all.
I completely disagree with this. It would just put more restrictions on the players ability to go/move where they want, when they want, while coaches are free to go any time. In my opinion the NCAA needs to be involved - have some sort of authority, or put more meaning into these meaningless coach's contracts. They require players to honor their agreements (sit out a year to transfer, etc.), while coaches are free to change jobs like they change their shirts. I am not against someone improving their situation, but when walking away from long-term, big money contracts seems to be the rule and not the exception, something isn't right. Coaches get rich on the backs of student athletes who have to give up certain rights in exchange for their scholarships, while those coaches are forced to give up nothing in exchange for multi-million dollar contracts. They are free to go any time they want.
I will again use the example of Stephen Curry. Roy Williams has publicly admitted his recruiting mistake. Given his ability and success this year, anyone think he might like to play for higher profile UNC next season (It's North Carolina. It's North Carolina.)? Too bad! He can't unless he's willing to put his career on hold for a year. Yet, after the year Davidson had, why do I get the sense his coach is in for a big raise? Had he wanted to move to MU for example, he could have done so in a heartbeat. The whole thing makes me hate myself for being a fan of college sports. I would love just once to hear Crean, Trent Johnson, Billy Gillespie...comment on that exact example. Unfortunately they're too busy cashing checks to give a damn.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on April 13, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
Are they actually assistants yet? Are they currently employees of IU? I don't know, just haven't seen anything 'official' yet. If not, this is even more shady than of they were.
I was wondering this too? Could TC be having them talk to players before hiring them to avoid any sanctions that are imposed on employees?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 13, 2008, 12:31:14 PM
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on April 13, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
Are they actually assistants yet? Are they currently employees of IU? I don't know, just haven't seen anything 'official' yet. If not, this is even more shady than of they were.
I was wondering this too? Could TC be having them talk to players before hiring them to avoid any sanctions that are imposed on employees?
wouldn't that be similar to boosters talking to players though and promoting a school?
Quote from: muguru on April 13, 2008, 11:49:08 AM
With all the other ridiculous rules the NCAA has, I am surprised they don't have one to clean up the perceived sliminess. What I mean is, I would like to see a rule implemented, that when a Coach leaves a particular school, they are not allowed under ANY circumstances to recruit any players that they had offered a scholarship to at their previous school. If they hadn't officially offered that player a scholarship but were just recruiting them, then it's fair game.
This would accomplish a couple of things IMO.
1. It would make some of these coaches think twice about jumping to the next great job offer that came available and leaving a team of players and recruits hanging with uncertain futures.
2. It makes the kids that sign LOI realize that you are committing to the school and NOT the coach. If there was a rule in place like this is would really make kids think about EVERYTHING that goes into signing a LOI and that if the Coach leaves before you get to school, you will NOT under any circumstances be allowed to be recruited by that Coach at his new school.
If kids still want their release after a Coach leaves that's ok, but they cannot go play for that Coach wherever he is. This would be somewhat similar to granting a kid a conditional release, only this way it take the onus off the school and they don't have a situation where they get painted in a bad light because they made a kids release conditional, or don't grant the release at all.
The national letter of intent already makes both points crystal clear.
Recruiting Ban After Signing. I understand all participating conferences and institutions are obligated to respect my signing and shall cease to recruit me upon my signing this NLI. I shall notify any recruiter who contacts me that I have signed an NLI. Once I enroll in the institution named in this document, the NLI Recruiting Ban is no longer in effect, and I shall be governed by applicable NCAA recruiting bylaws.and
Coaching Changes. I understand I have signed this NLI with the institution and not for a particular sport or individual. If the coach leaves the institution or the sports program (or is not retained), I remain bound by the provisions of this NLI. I understand it is not uncommon for a coach to leave his or her coaching position.
Here's the rub--regardless of what the NLI says, HS athletes pick schools based on the coach. It would be nice to think that they have carefully evaluated the campus, the dorms, academic offerings, professors, etc. But the bottom line is that they spend virtually every free moment with their coach, and that's their #1 criteria. I think everyone involved understands that, which is why so many players are granted a release from the NLI when a coach changes jobs. Yes, there's a contract and schools could force players to honor it. But what purpose would it serve? Making a kid play in an environment where he's not happy is not good for either party.
Releasing a kid from his NLI but not permitting him to play for the coach he's been dying to play for the past three years is just petty and punitive. If you're going to release a kid but force him to pick a different coach simply because you want to punish your old coach for leaving--that's playing games with the lives of the HS athletes--making them a pawn in coaching game.
The bottom line is that if MU cares about Nick as an individual, we have to let him go where he wants to go. If he wants to play for Tom Crean, so be it.
Raise your hand if you complained about Marcus Jackson bailing on Georgiq after the Jim Harrick implosion.
While you're at it, raise your hand if you said bad things about Tom crean and/or Marquette for signing a player who had reneged on a commitment.
The Harrick situation is a bad example as there were issues of imminent probabation and school oversight. In a case like that, a guy/gal should not be held to the NLI.
Quote from: butchbadger on April 13, 2008, 11:10:40 AM
This is more than a little shady, yet many here still defend their ex boyfirend who smacked them around.
Buzz better put a fence around Erik Williams. Slimy will be after him next.
I wouldn't use the word many. And, just because not everyone on here takes your word for gold doesn't mean we are blind to the point you are trying to make. Repeatedly.
As for Erik Williams, I think we're pretty solid with him thanks to Buzz. By all accounts, Buzz has some sort of secret elixir he drops in recruits' drinks and they'll follow him anywhere he goes.
Question for you butch: it looks like Wisconsin will still keep an eye on Wilson even though it most likely won't come to fruition since they've found their other commits for 2009. Having said that, will it get it ugly between MU and UW fans if this comes down to the wire, or, do you think with Crean out of the picture the feelings wouldn't quite reach the animosity level?
No I don't think it will be bitter. Crean was hated, not MU for most.
He has proven us all right, unfortunately.
I don't think Wilson will end up at either school. UW is full and the signing of Evans indicates of lack of interest on someone's part IMO. As he climbs up the rankings some not so clean programs will get involved.
Smith ended up at 'Ville without anyone on their coaching staff seeing him play. ?-(
Agree Butch - this guy will get lost at some program like Louisville and he could be a star at MU or UW.
I also am of the opinion that Wilson will matriculate at a school outside of WI. Just my hunch that Jamil will go with an established coach at a school more noteworthy. The kid certainly will have that choice.
Where we disagree is that I think he'll contribute greatly and be an integral part of the future success of that program
It's college basketball. You can't punish the kid and take away his opportunity to play for the coach he wants...at least before he's enrolled.
Crean's gone. Williams was his kid. The kid wanted to play for Crean more than he wanted MU. Just deal with it. It's all a business. I don't like the hire of Buzz and the guys not wanting to come to MU...but...dems da breaks.
Let's get Taylor and move on. If Crean gets Williams, good for him. It was a bad move how he left town, but I don't want the guy burned in effigy or anything. Look what he did for the program. Move on.
In case someone hasn't already posted it, here's the info on the current IU restrictions.
Quote from: IndyStar.com
These are the recruiting sanctions facing new IU basketball coach Tom Crean, left over from those the school self-imposed on former coach Kelvin Sampson. They are scheduled to last until July 31, the end of the recruiting year. In addition, IU docked itself one scholarship for the 2008-09 season.RECRUITING SANCTIONS STILL IN PLACE
• Off-campus recruiting days: Crean has none left. Under IU's self-imposed sanctions, Sampson was limited to 14 (four in the fall and 10 in the spring), and when he resigned Feb. 22, he had used 10. As IU's interim coach, Dan Dakich used up the other four. When Crean's staff is in place, two of the three assistants will be permitted to recruit off campus.
• Official visits by recruits: These are visits paid for by the school, and IU has none left. IU had reduced that number from 12 to six, and Sampson and his staff used all of them. That means the only way Crean can get players on campus will be through unofficial visits, which are paid for by the prospect. As with other schools, these can happen anytime except during recruiting "dead periods," during which coaches are allowed only to write or telephone recruits.
• Phone calls: Crean's coaching staff can call high school seniors only once a week -- with Crean himself allowed to call them only once every other week -- until May 21, the end of the spring signing period. After that, regular rules would apply, allowing the coaching staff, including Crean, to call seniors twice a week. With juniors, for Crean, it's once every other month through July 31 (the norm is once a month).
Full article here. (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080406/SPORTS0601/804060355/1069/SPORTS0601)
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 13, 2008, 10:25:13 AM
Quote from: NYWarrior on April 13, 2008, 10:17:03 AM
he was a gracious guy.........here's the net:
1. They're definitely going after Nick Williams, leaving for Mobile in 30 minutes.
2. He thinks MU will do well with Buzz, would not comment on the notion that MU panicked with the hire.
3. He thinks Buzz will get great talent into MU - was not sure about Tyshawn Taylor but insinuated that Hurley was posturing more than anything (my interpretation)
4. The gap he thinks Buzz will have to overcome is the sheer scope of the job. Seltzer says Buzz will do well with running the program, but the challenge at private university like MU is that the coach is the most visible, sought after person on campus and therefore gets involved in just about everything....at least that is what Tom did. That's broad responsibility/participation/visibility at MU, one u don't have at state schools (revealing comment).
5. Bennie said he'll make sure to beat Bucky.
I think Crean has to go after Williams. His roster at IU is depleted and he needs quality players. We certainly canot be happy about it, but IU has plenty of holes to fill. hopefully Buzz can keep in in the fold as williams most certainly will step into a great situation with the amigos graduating next year.
Your point four is interesting. That was part of the reason O'Neill bolted. He was not fond of the alumni ass kissing. But, it is what you make of it. Plenty of coaches at private schools balance that just fine.
Funny, but I think #4 is why Davis's term was cut short. Like TC, Davis's Final Four run bought him time - but IU Alumni and Boosters were not fond of him, nor was he of them which finally caught up with him after the 2002 Final Four uphoria wore off.
I'm not sure what I'd expect him to say, but that sounds like a lukewarm endorsement from somebody who worked with Buzz for 9 months.
In my opinion, though, he's a tad off base. Williams should avoid trying to imitate Crean. Crean was TOO involved in "just about everything." We don't need our new coach focusing on PA announcements, video taped messages and new nicknames.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 14, 2008, 10:52:00 AM
I'm not sure what I'd expect him to say, but that sounds like a lukewarm endorsement from somebody who worked with Buzz for 9 months.
In my opinion, though, he's a tad off base. Williams should avoid trying to imitate Crean. Crean was TOO involved in "just about everything." We don't need our new coach focusing on PA announcements, video taped messages and new nicknames.
I agree with this thought. Maybe one positive of Buzz will be that he can simply be the basketball coach. Not wearing all the other hats like Crean.
Sounds like Buzz is disarming in person which means he'll do fine with the funding events during the summer. It will be interesting to see if he has a basketball camp and I'm still uncertain as to the reaction when he cries during press conferences after the game but soon you hope he'll learn these needs.
There is a summer basketball camp. I signed my son up for it within the last week.
From the 4/16 issue of the Trib, in Yanda's article about DJ staying for his senior season:
"Assistant Athletics Director Scott Kuykendall confirmed that Tim Buckley, Jason Rabedeaux and Bennie Seltzer - all assistants on Crean's staff during the 2007-'08 season - are no longer employed at Marquette. Indiana Director of Media Relations J.D. Campbell said no one has been hired to Crean's coaching staff as of yet, but he hoped that an announcement would be made by the end of the week."
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/uwire/041608aac.html (http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/uwire/041608aac.html)
So if Buckley and Seltzer aren't on the staff at IU yet, how were they recruiting Nick Williams on Sunday? Wonder who bought their plane tickets to Mobile, and who they were representing when they were down there?
Either IU's director of media relations is out of the loop, or...