I don't really want to focus on Crean (though this post goes against that) but it is interesting to go back and read where Marquette was at the time Crean was hired in relation to where Marquette is today as Buzz is being hired.
Crean Named Head Coach:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000110232241/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052899aaa.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000110232241/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052899aaa.html)
Crean's First Media Day:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000118005406/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101199aaa.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000118005406/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101199aaa.html)
Other Articles From Creans Hiring:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000111091806/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/marq-m-baskbl-spec-rel.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000111091806/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/marq-m-baskbl-spec-rel.html)
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 12, 2008, 02:13:15 AM
I don't really want to focus on Crean (though this post goes against that) but it is interesting to go back and read where Marquette was at the time Crean was hired in relation to where Marquette is today as Buzz is being hired.
Crean Named Head Coach:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000110232241/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052899aaa.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000110232241/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052899aaa.html)
Crean's First Media Day:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000118005406/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101199aaa.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000118005406/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101199aaa.html)
Other Articles From Creans Hiring:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000111091806/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/marq-m-baskbl-spec-rel.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20000111091806/www.fansonly.com/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/marq-m-baskbl-spec-rel.html)
I guess Fr. Wild no longer values "knowledge of the Midwest" or "successful coaching experience."
Seriously, I didn't like Crean but he was a good hire. He was associate head coach of a Final Four team. Think about that. We were really struggling back then, but still able to lure a highly qualified assistant from a Big Ten powerhouse.
This year, we're coming off a very tough 2nd round loss, have a loaded backcourt coming back for their senior year and we hire a guy with a resume lighter than a feather.
Honest to God, it gets more perplexing with each passing day.
That second link contains this gem:
"Crean says he's pleasantly surprised to see Marquette ranked among the published collegiate attendance leaders, but he does understand that many of these people were indistinguishable from vacant chairs."
I thought we were only averaging 7,200 fans a year when he took over?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 12, 2008, 07:28:04 AM
I guess Fr. Wild no longer values "knowledge of the Midwest" or "successful coaching experience."
Seriously, I didn't like Crean but he was a good hire. He was associate head coach of a Final Four team. Think about that. We were really struggling back then, but still able to lure a highly qualified assistant from a Big Ten powerhouse.
This year, we're coming off a very tough 2nd round loss, have a loaded backcourt coming back for their senior year and we hire a guy with a resume lighter than a feather.
Honest to God, it gets more perplexing with each passing day.
PRN, why don't you re-read waht you wrote because other than spelling all the words correctly, almost everything is incorrect.
1) MU got a guy with "knowledge of the midwest" unless you don't consider someone that currently lives in Milwaukee knowledgable of the midwest.
2) they got a guy with "sucessful coaching experience" He was an assistant at MU and they were ranked most of the year.
3) now all of sudden Crean was highly qualified in 1999 ane Buzz is not now? So you adovcate hiring an assistant from anotehr school, or another head coach, watching everyone leave so we can go 15 and 14 for two years? That's a better appraoch?
4) In the last few years, elevating the assitant coach has worked very well at the major D1 level. See Pitt, See Kansas State.
5) Honest to God, your criticism gets more perplexing with each passing day.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 07:43:28 AM
4) In the last few years, elevating the assitant coach has worked very well at the major D1 level. See Pitt, See Kansas State.
On this point I will take issue. Works the same with hiring head coaches from other schools, but its hard to suggest that elevating an assistant is indicative of a higher probability of success. For every Jamie Dixon or Frank Martin (Jury still very much out as they had the first pick in the NBA draft on their team that was recruited by the previous guy), there is a Brad Soderberg or Sean Sutton. It was along time ago, but even Rick Majerus. He went on to become a great coach after taking a step back, but clearly he was not ready for the MU job at the time he was elevated.
Believe me I hope this is a Pittsburgh situation, but at this point hope is all we have to try to compare the two situations. You can't simply point to the places it has worked without also looking at the places it didn't. Time will tell of course.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 07:43:28 AM
PRN, why don't you re-read waht you wrote because other than spelling all the words correctly, almost everything is incorrect.
1) MU got a guy with "knowledge of the midwest" unless you don't consider someone that currently lives in Milwaukee knowledgable of the midwest.
Father Marquette himself had greater knowledge of the Midwest after his first canoe trip than Buzz Williams does after 9 months of flying between Mitchell International and Waco, Texas.
2) they got a guy with "sucessful coaching experience" He was an assistant at MU and they were ranked most of the year.
What? So you're saying he's qualifed to be our head coach after 9 months as an assistant on a team he really had no hand in building? He's basically had two successful years. One at Texas A&M and one at Marquette...when he was basically just along for the ride. And by the way, neither comes close to the success Crean had as an assistant. And I'm assuming you'll agree that our coaching job should be more desirable now than when Crean was hired.
3) now all of sudden Crean was highly qualified in 1999 ane Buzz is not now? So you adovcate hiring an assistant from anotehr school, or another head coach, watching everyone leave so we can go 15 and 14 for two years? That's a better appraoch?
Crean was always a good hired. It's not "all of a sudden." The fact that he turned out to be a prick doesn't change the fact that he was instrumental in helping build Michigan State into a Big Ten powerhouse. They were coming off a Final Four with players Crean helped recruit.
4) In the last few years, elevating the assitant coach has worked very well at the major D1 level. See Pitt, See Kansas State.
So you're comparing Buzz Williams, who was basically a desperation hire because of the huge turnover on Crean's staff every year to Jamie Dixon, who helped build Pitt and Walker, who recruited a stacked team at Kansas State? I might agree with you if Williams had any hand in recruiting Matthews, James or McNeal, but he didn't. He did not contribute AT ALL to building the basketball team as it is currently constituted.
5) Honest to God, your criticism gets more perplexing with each passing day.
What were they feeding you guys in 1984?
Sorry, AnotherMU84 .. PRN is spot on.
PRN is 100% correct in everything he says (in this topic).
Re-read the lame hate filled responses in red above and think about your agreement.
dude was a "parks and recreation" major? what the hell is that? was he a football player at UW?
PRN Said:
So you're comparing Buzz Williams, who was basically a desperation hire because of the huge turnover on Crean's staff every year to Jamie Dixon, who helped build Pitt and Walker, who recruited a stacked team at Kansas State? I might agree with you if Williams had any hand in recruiting Matthews, James or McNeal, but he didn't. He did not contribute AT ALL to building the basketball team as it is currently constituted.
--------------
All hires are deperation hires. IU was desperate and got crean. Providence is desperate now after whiffing on two coaches. Pitt was desperate when they hired Dixon, same with Kansas State after Huggy Bear left.
Please site an example of a coach leaving a program days after the season ends and his replacement is not a desperation hire.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 09:25:16 AM
Re-read the lame hate filled responses in red above and think about your agreement.
Unless you think Candy Land is a game of violence I cannot understand how you see hate in his post.
Quote from: Chili on April 12, 2008, 09:45:17 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 09:25:16 AM
Re-read the lame hate filled responses in red above and think about your agreement.
Unless you think Candy Land is a game of violence I cannot understand how you see hate in his post.
Quote:
"Father Marquette himself had greater knowledge of the Midwest after his first canoe trip than Buzz Williams does after 9 months of flying between Mitchell International and Waco, Texas."
The man hates Buzz despite his protestations and would rather satisfy his ego by seeing him fail than see him suceed and have to admit he was wrong.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 09:34:29 AM
Please site an example of a coach leaving a program days after the season ends and his replacement is not a desperation hire.
I'll take a shot at that...Jamie Dixon, Matt Painter, Tony Bennett are a couple that immediately come to mind. All guys that played key rolls for a significant period of time in shaping the state of the programs they took over. Not sure Buzz compares to those guys. I'm not neccessrily taking sides on the Buzz hire, but you asked.
Their have been Pitt fans on this board to say that Dixon was a desperation hire. Howland left for UCLA and did not even say goodbye, just left. Their are lot of parallels between Buzz and Dixon, the main difference is Buzz was here one year (but has several years as assiatant experience) whereas Dixon had several years as an assistant under Howland.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 10:17:11 AM
Their are lot of parallels between Buzz and Dixon, the main difference is Buzz was here one year (but has several years as assiatant experience) whereas Dixon had several years as an assistant under Howland.
That's a pretty key difference though...Dixon was key in building the team(s) that got Howland the UCLA job. Not sure anyone could necessarily the same about Buzz at A&M or MU.
Again, I think there is real potential for Buzz to be successful. I just don't think many of these comparisons are very good ones
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 09:54:13 AM
Quote from: Chili on April 12, 2008, 09:45:17 AM
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 09:25:16 AM
Re-read the lame hate filled responses in red above and think about your agreement.
Unless you think Candy Land is a game of violence I cannot understand how you see hate in his post.
Quote:
"Father Marquette himself had greater knowledge of the Midwest after his first canoe trip than Buzz Williams does after 9 months of flying between Mitchell International and Waco, Texas."
The man hates Buzz despite his protestations and would rather satisfy his ego by seeing him fail than see him suceed and have to admit he was wrong.
The man does not hate Buzz, he's asking serious questions like many other people. Like many fans not even MU fans, like many national writers for college basketball. Has nothing to do with hating Buzz. His points, quite frankly, were pretty spot on. You seem to give Buzz a lot of credit for being an assistant coach at MU on a team that was going to the NCAAs whether Buzz was here or not. I'm glad he was here, seems like a fine assistant coach that helped in many ways, but to suggest he was a difference maker or something seems a stretch. This past MU team was going to the NCAAs whether Buzz Williams or Ruth Buzzy was on that bench as an assistant.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 10:17:11 AM
Their have been Pitt fans on this board to say that Dixon was a desperation hire. Howland left for UCLA and did not even say goodbye, just left. Their are lot of parallels between Buzz and Dixon, the main difference is Buzz was here one year (but has several years as assiatant experience) whereas Dixon had several years as an assistant under Howland.
I fail to see the parallels. Dixon was at Pitt for multiple years with Howland and recruited multiple years of Pitt players. He was as much Pitt as Howland was in terms of tenure. He was there for 4 years before taking over. Furthermore, Dixon was on Howland's staff at Northern Arizona for another multiple year run at Northern Arizona and they were assistants together for a few years at UC Santa Barbara. So the connection to the system they run and the type of player for that system was about 10 years together between the two.
I see no parallel.
Dixon was also a DI player at TCU....here's his game winning shot against Texas
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5240275171898995674
Parallel to Pitt
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/04/interesting-perspective-on-pitt-circa.html
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 12, 2008, 11:01:21 AM
Parallel to Pitt
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/04/interesting-perspective-on-pitt-circa.html
Yes, the process in how they became head coach...that I agree. It seemed to me you were making the further leap that there will be parallels in coaching ability. Let's hope you're right but those parallels are not there...yet.