Any true MU cannot accept this. We have watched mistakes made off and on since March 30, 1977. The time is now for MU fans to voice their displeasure. They make stupid decisions because all keep supporting them. A mistake made tomorrow lasts a decade.
Alumni call the school and complain before 2pm.
Students get your butts outside and voice your anger. You will never have greater time in life than supporting your team. DO NOT LET TC or MU ADMINSTRATION take that away from you.
I am serious on this. We sat back and watched other mistakes and lived with them for years. Lets stop this from happening.
It doesn't matter how many people complain. We're not gonna flip flop like we did with the name change and fire Buzz next week. We're screwed for one season at the very least.
Yeah, right. Marquette students are far to apathetic to do anything.
Yeah!!! Is the Olympic Torch relay coming through Milwaukee? Protest that too!
How is everybody so convinced he is going to suck?
Give the guy a chance.
I hope we have a great season and y'all eat your words
Quote from: MUinOH on April 07, 2008, 08:32:56 PM
Yeah!!! Is the Olympic Torch relay coming through Milwaukee? Protest that too!
Like the Olympics care about Milwaukee.
There has got to be something better to protest than Buzz Williams taking over at Marquette :-\
the guy is the best recruiter in the country. i like it.
MU fans----for once stand up for what is right. We are apathic for three decades. We are the laughingstock of NCAA as of 2pm tomorrow. That bothers me, doesn't it you?
UWM would not hire Buzz if they had an opening and we do.
Quote from: mugoose on April 07, 2008, 08:39:43 PM
the guy is the best recruiter in the country. i like it.
Questionable but even still that's as an Assistant Coach.
There's a lot to being a Head Coach and this guy can't be out on the road recruiting all the time. He's gotta handle the crap left at home and we have no idea if he can do that.
Thankfully I have nothing better to protest in my life. But with that said, I do not want to wait 20y and five coaches to be competitive again. MU is being laughed at around the country. If Buzz fails youn tell me who wants to come here in four years.
Tell the school they made a mistake before they make the mistake. I believe they got cold feet about this hire and held it off from the weekend. They did so because they were afraid of backlash.
Let's give them backlash and give it to them quickly.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:10:08 PM
Thankfully I have nothing better to protest in my life. But with that said, I do not want to wait 20y and five coaches to be competitive again. MU is being laughed at around the country. If Buzz fails youn tell me who wants to come here in four years.
Okay, WHO is laughing at MU? give some proof. i don't think anybody else cares about our HC vacancy...that's the problem!
BS---trust me we are being laughed at. Only a true fan could feel stung right now and understand what a complete embarrassment this is to the school.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:10:08 PM
Thankfully I have nothing better to protest in my life. But with that said, I do not want to wait 20y and five coaches to be competitive again. MU is being laughed at around the country. If Buzz fails youn tell me who wants to come here in four years.
Tell the school they made a mistake before they make the mistake. I believe they got cold feet about this hire and held it off from the weekend. They did so because they were afraid of backlash.
Let's give them backlash and give it to them quickly.
nothing better to protest?? ::)
Go Warriors!
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:14:59 PM
BS---trust me we are being laughed at. Only a true fan could feel stung right now and understand what a complete embarrassment this is to the school.
I guess we should just take your word for it, huh?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:14:59 PM
BS---trust me we are being laughed at. Only a true fan could feel stung right now and understand what a complete embarrassment this is to the school.
Sooooo we just trust the guy with like 10 posts who just spouts off emotion not backed up by ANY proof whatsoever?
If you can think of nothing better to protest you're the most selfcentered person on the face of this earth..... :'(
Quote from: avid1010 on April 07, 2008, 09:22:21 PM
If you can think of nothing better to protest you're the most selfcentered person on the face of this earth..... :'(
+1.
There has to be SOMETHING in the word more worthy of a protest than the MU hoops coach.
I LOVE MU hoops... but get a grip dude(s).
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:14:59 PM
BS---trust me we are being laughed at. Only a true fan could feel stung right now and understand what a complete embarrassment this is to the school.
So the people on MU Scoop with hundreds of posts and glass is half full view are not true fans?
get a grip GYMBAR - you don't know squat about Williams or the process used to hire him. Support your school & new coach, quit being a di&Khead...
Is thegymbar actually frank the tank? will you be streaking through the 2pm conference tomorrow? don't get me wrong, i really do appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is getting comical.
i am a bit bummed, as the bennett rumors were getting me excited, but I will support buzz and hope he does well. all of my disappointment however has subsided to lots of smiles as I have read this board and have seen some of these posts. as they say, priceless
The responses to my post is exactly why MU made the choice. Nobody really does care. MU knows there will be suckers in the stands watching us play Sacramento State or UW Whitewater. Cry, cry, cry on here....then accept it. Look in the mirror and you'll know why we got Buzzed.
Why protest? So we can go hire one of the dozen or so big time coaches that were banging down our doors for the position? Get a grip people. While buzz isn't the sexy name everyone was hoping for at least give him a uear or two before you all chastize him.
Two ways you could be a Buzz supporter:
#1 You are TC croonie and you love being on the inside of program.
#2 You know NOTHING about college basketball.
I promise you no one is more surprised by this hiring more than Buz himself. Two weeks ago his name did not come up for ANY job.
Get a grip? I have spent a ton of money supporting following MU ball and now have a son attending there. Been a fan since Al and supported every lame decision. Not anymore.
How long would this protest last if he actually turns out to be good?
I would bet, not very long.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:16:35 AM
Two ways you could be a Buzz supporter:
#1 You are TC croonie and you love being on the inside of program.
#2 You know NOTHING about college basketball.
I promise you no one is more surprised by this hiring more than Buz himself. Two weeks ago his name did not come up for ANY job.
Get a grip? I have spent a ton of money supporting following MU ball and now have a son attending there. Been a fan since Al and supported every lame decision. Not anymore.
Dear Internet Tough Guy,
In regards to your post calling everyone to go out and protest: Why are you still online and not protesting outside?
MU supporter no more? No crap. With friends/supporters like you, who needs enemies? Maybe after today you'll realize how ridiculous you have been, but if not, Marquette isn't going to lose any sleep over your loss of support. Neither will REAL fans and real supporters. Get over yourself.
Quote from: marqptm on April 08, 2008, 07:19:04 AM
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:16:35 AM
Two ways you could be a Buzz supporter:
#1 You are TC croonie and you love being on the inside of program.
#2 You know NOTHING about college basketball.
I promise you no one is more surprised by this hiring more than Buz himself. Two weeks ago his name did not come up for ANY job.
Get a grip? I have spent a ton of money supporting following MU ball and now have a son attending there. Been a fan since Al and supported every lame decision. Not anymore.
Dear Internet Tough Guy,
In regards to your post calling everyone to go out and protest: Why are you still online and not protesting outside?
Great point.
Maybe the internet "warrior protesters" and "buzz protesters" can coordinate efforts... because as we have seen, complaining about it on the internet isn't likely to get anything done.
Take it to the streets, brother!
Internet tough guy is protesting. Four season tickets for 35y are being canceled. Internet tough guy said alumni should boycott games, write a letter or call voicing displeasure.
I have loved supporting MU ball all of these years, but this is a mistake I believe no one should accept. Judging by everyone's comments I should stage a one man protest.
Everyone that knows ball seems disappointed/angry but life goes on. My point remains that is why MU does the things they do. They do not care about alumni, unless donating a ton, and the fans.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:24:36 AM
Internet tough guy is protesting. Four season tickets for 35y are being canceled.
Over this??? You're cancelling your tickets over the hiring of Buzz Williams????
Very odd.
Gym,
Welcome to 2008, this isn't the 70's anymore and right now marquette isn't a destination job. Sorry to break the news to you but at least wait and see what this guy can do before we banish him to the far end of the earth. Honestly, he doesn't have extremely huge shoes to fill, I mean with this team he should be headibg to the tourney again and if he actually wins his first game he'll have tied our tourney win total over the past 5 years of our "storied" program.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:24:36 AM
Internet tough guy is protesting. Four season tickets for 35y are being canceled. Internet tough guy said alumni should boycott games, write a letter or call voicing displeasure.
I have loved supporting MU ball all of these years, but this is a mistake I believe no one should accept. Judging by everyone's comments I should stage a one man protest.
Everyone that knows ball seems disappointed/angry but life goes on. My point remains that is why MU does the things they do. They do not care about alumni, unless donating a ton, and the fans.
Actually, I can respect this.
This is a free country and an open market.
MU basketball is a product... if you aren't happy with it, then don't purchase it.
Can't fault you for that.
But, please realize that accusing others of not being fans makes you seem a little crazy (especially because Buzz hasn't even started the season yet).
Odd? I agree. I should have canceled over hiring of Mike Deane and came back when TC arrived. I would have been served giving the Business School the money for the Deane years than bball program. Giving money to inferior product so they can fund a girls team was waste of money.
MU ticket holders---Do you think MU charging top tier pricing for tickets should equate to top tier coaching? MU wants us to pay top dollar and it seemed logical when a coach was making $1.65 mil a year. They will now want the same top dollar for inferior product.
I really cannot believe nobody finds that alarming.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:30:45 AM
Odd? I agree. I should have canceled over hiring of Mike Deane and came back when TC arrived. I would have been served giving the Business School the money for the Deane years than bball program. Giving money to inferior product so they can fund a girls team was waste of money.
hey THEGAYBAR... please cancel your tickets asap. also, anyone else on the fence about their tickets, please cancel... i want to be able to move my seats up for next year. you guys that think this is the worst thing ever make me want to puke. grow up and act your age. i have no idea what buzz will do with this team, but neither do you. all is speculation at this point. i for one would like to see what he is capable of.
the bandwagon will be arriving at your destination shortly, please gather up bags fair-weather-fans and exit once it comes to a complete stop. i hope you have enjoyed riding with Bandwagon Express. don't let the door hit your in the ass on the way out.
MUGimpOne--My pleasure on giving up the seats. It is always fun to see an upper decker get down to the expensive seats. FYI I have great seats and I do because I have supported this program a long time. Everytime they asked for more money I wrote a check.
Careful what you wish for. Great seats come with a price. I have enjoyed my 30y + bandwagon ride. If I miss this one so be it. I can assure you that my views are shared by many old time fans. I have received a dozen calls/emails on the topic already.
Good luck downstairs. It really is as good as it looks!!!!
This isn't about whether Buzz will have success or not, because you are right none of us know. The anger and frustration is that this hire puts us on the same level as Ball State and UWGB (2 other schools that hired Crean assistants). Some of us are disappointed that MU made a Horizon League hire.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 08:17:29 AM
MUGimpOne--My pleasure on giving up the seats. It is always fun to see an upper decker get down to the expensive seats. FYI I have great seats and I do because I have supported this program a long time. Everytime they asked for more money I wrote a check.
Careful what you wish for. Great seats come with a price. I have enjoyed my 30y + bandwagon ride. If I miss this one so be it. I can assure you that my views are shared by many old time fans. I have received a dozen calls/emails on the topic already.
Good luck downstairs. It really is as good as it looks!!!!
you know, you may have just pointed out the problem here. all the younger alums that haven't cashed in their 401k's yet to live the golden days are stuck upstairs. while you cry baby blue-hairs are taking up the good seats. we may owe you a debt of gratitude for other things in the nation, but not marquette basketball. just because you have had tickets for 30+ years doesn't mean you run the show and should be catered to. hopefully this will clear the lower bowl of their AARP requirement and let passionate fans get to the seats where their support can be heard. don't worry GYMBAR, you can continue to sit on your hands and not stand up to cheer at home, you won't have to pay for parking then.
watch for us in your seats...
sincerely,
The MU Faithful
Gimp--Thank you for the kind words. But actually with the money that my family has given to the school over the years I do believe they should take that into consideration. MU is a business and any good business caters to big customer first, medium customers second and infrequent customers last.
I have respected and cheered for MU bball program all my life. Hardly a blue hair, much closer to your age than a blue hair. I can tell you that I respect the older alumni that helped build the foundation of MU ball. The foundation was built in the 1970's and weathered the past 30 years relatively well. I for one do not want to see it crumble.
If your interest is having better seats and standing the whole game I respect that. I remember sitting upstairs at the Arena and the "Blue hairs" as you call them were on their feet. Winning teams create excitement.
I have zero problem with your comments other than they lack any respect to people that supported this program for a long time. If you are the future of this program, please study its' history. It is quite impressive. This program belongs to be guided by qualified people, not people who might be qualified if we only give him a chance.
Good luck young Warrior. The responsibility of a winning, classy organization is a big one. Do it right!!
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 08:17:29 AM
Good luck downstairs. It really is as good as it looks!!!!
Even with an "inferior product"?
Its a shame that you are turning in your tickets. After 30+ years of support, your gonna abandon your team just like that? Your worse than Crean. Why dont you take the money you save from your seats and the donation and move to Bloomington. Marquette Basketball will NOT miss you at all, be assured of that.
Jay---Thanks for the advise. Please read my last post again.
Young(under 30 years of age) Warrior fans---You are needed to continue a tradition. Supporting a bad hire is not being a supporter, it is being a follower. I would rather lose the next two years and be building than worry if recruits are coming or not next year.
Do yourselves a favor and learn about the tradition. This program was ahead of the curve in so many ways. I know our place in NCAA history and its' place today. If you want to be the leaders of the program lead with your head, not your heart.
I want MU ball to win NCAA as much you do. I just know, from experience, we just went backwards.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on April 07, 2008, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 09:10:08 PM
Thankfully I have nothing better to protest in my life. But with that said, I do not want to wait 20y and five coaches to be competitive again. MU is being laughed at around the country. If Buzz fails youn tell me who wants to come here in four years.
Tell the school they made a mistake before they make the mistake. I believe they got cold feet about this hire and held it off from the weekend. They did so because they were afraid of backlash.
Let's give them backlash and give it to them quickly.
nothing better to protest?? ::)
Go Warriors!
agreed. Protest what? It will just make you look more stupid to get your picture on the evening news. There is nothing more embarassing than those dorks watching the TV when they announced the "gold". Only your protest can make us the laughing stock of the NCAA. BTW, Crean was an assistant from a BIG ELEVEN school when he came here. Give Buzz a chance to keep our team and recruits intact.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:01:30 AM
Jay---Thanks for the advise. Please read my last post again.
Young(under 30 years of age) Warrior fans---You are needed to continue a tradition. Supporting a bad hire is not being a supporter, it is being a follower. I would rather lose the next two years and be building than worry if recruits are coming or not next year.
Do yourselves a favor and learn about the tradition. This program was ahead of the curve in so many ways. I know our place in NCAA history and its' place today. If you want to be the leaders of the program lead with your head, not your heart.
I want MU ball to win NCAA as much you do. I just know, from experience, we just went backwards.
For being a "younger alum" as you called yourself, you are sure dishing out the sage wisdom like my grandfather. I do have knowledge of the history of Marquette. I do have respect of the tradition. I also have undying passion for the university and their athletic teams. You give up your right to criticize other fans when you claim that giving up your season tickets and starting a protest is the best solution at this time. I'm sure everyone was pumped about getting the coach from Belmont Abbey University back in the day, but it seemed to work out alright (coach al mcguire). I am not jumping ship right now or ever. I'll wait to see what this coach can do before i make my decision.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:01:30 AM
Jay---Thanks for the advise. Please read my last post again.
Young(under 30 years of age) Warrior fans---You are needed to continue a tradition. Supporting a bad hire is not being a supporter, it is being a follower. I would rather lose the next two years and be building than worry if recruits are coming or not next year.
Do yourselves a favor and learn about the tradition. This program was ahead of the curve in so many ways. I know our place in NCAA history and its' place today. If you want to be the leaders of the program lead with your head, not your heart.
I want MU ball to win NCAA as much you do. I just know, from experience, we just went backwards.
TheGymBar is right on many different levels, although I'm not going to cancel my tickets just yet. Supporting the team does not and has never meant blindly following bad decisions. If it did, we'd still be called the "Gold."
I agree that I'd rather lose the next two years than win next year and have our program twirl itself down the toilet for the next five.
I'm not saying that's going to happen, but I have a hard time understand how this guy is going to compete for recruits.
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on April 08, 2008, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:01:30 AM
Jay---Thanks for the advise. Please read my last post again.
Young(under 30 years of age) Warrior fans---You are needed to continue a tradition. Supporting a bad hire is not being a supporter, it is being a follower. I would rather lose the next two years and be building than worry if recruits are coming or not next year.
Do yourselves a favor and learn about the tradition. This program was ahead of the curve in so many ways. I know our place in NCAA history and its' place today. If you want to be the leaders of the program lead with your head, not your heart.
I want MU ball to win NCAA as much you do. I just know, from experience, we just went backwards.
For being a "younger alum" as you called yourself, you are sure dishing out the sage wisdom like my grandfather. I do have knowledge of the history of Marquette. I do have respect of the tradition. I also have undying passion for the university and their athletic teams. You give up your right to criticize other fans when you claim that giving up your season tickets and starting a protest is the best solution at this time. I'm sure everyone was pumped about getting the coach from Belmont Abbey University back in the day, but it seemed to work out alright (coach al mcguire). I am not jumping ship right now or ever. I'll wait to see what this coach can do before i make my decision.
Comparing this to McGuire is ABSURD!!! Al McGuire was a former NBA player and was a great college player and was recommended to the university by some of the most legendary coaches of the time.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:01:30 AM
Jay---Thanks for the advise. Please read my last post again.
Young(under 30 years of age) Warrior fans---You are needed to continue a tradition. Supporting a bad hire is not being a supporter, it is being a follower. I would rather lose the next two years and be building than worry if recruits are coming or not next year.
Do yourselves a favor and learn about the tradition. This program was ahead of the curve in so many ways. I know our place in NCAA history and its' place today. If you want to be the leaders of the program lead with your head, not your heart.
I want MU ball to win NCAA as much you do. I just know, from experience, we just went backwards.
Gymbar you ask people to look into the history and tradition of the program. Let me shed some light for you. We changed our name a long time ago, stop referring to us as "Young Warriors" no one under 30 was a Warrior, get over it. Furthermore, I have never been a Warrior, have always been a Golden Eagle and am proud to say it. You sir are doing yourself a disservice and all of Marquette by including yourself in a group known as fans. Trust me, with your words you are no fan of Marquette. I will enjoy the view from the lower as well. That is assuming you can stand up off the stick that is no doubt impaled in you currently.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 08:46:31 AM
I have zero problem with your comments other than they lack any respect to people that supported this program for a long time.
If you want respect... stay true to your program.
Get off your high horse, sir. Get the dodge stratus out of the garage and take a drive down lake shore... realize that the world is still turning. We have our coach in place and we have to deal with it. I am sorry that you are such an old fan and have seen so many new coachs come in to eventually leave the program, that you cant mustard up the energy/passion/whatever you want to call it to support the next era of MU basketball. You want a coach that will be with his program forever? Move to Arizona. They have a coach that is going nowhere. Short of him, Boehim, JTIII, Coach K, Billy Donavon every coach in the land would be willing to relocate if the price is right.
I find it almost comical that all the younger fans are so hostile. Guys, I am class of 1985, not 1885. Al McGuire hire was before ESPN, websites and talk radio. Todays game is different. Mistakes last a long time.
I am not sure if I am more disgusted by the hire or the lack of respect shown on here. 99% of my thoughts have been respectful to other posters. Why do I not get the same respect?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
I find it almost comical that all the younger fans are so hostile. Guys, I am class of 1985, not 1885.
Some how I find it hard to believe you have had season tickets for 35 years then? Please explain to my simple brain how this works?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
"Four season tickets for 35y are being canceled.
Jay---You are right. Every SINGLE coach with exception of the ones you mentioned will eventually move. With that in mind why did we pick a guy no one else would ever consider hiring. You are making my point perfectly.
At least 25-40 good coaches available for a price and we took BUZZ. That is why everyone that knows ball and cares about ball should be pissed. I do not expect a coach to stay here forever, and glad TC left. What I expect is MU hiring top coach everytime there is a vacancy.
Bottomline is they did not deliver.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
I find it almost comical that all the younger fans are so hostile. Guys, I am class of 1985, not 1885. Al McGuire hire was before ESPN, websites and talk radio. Todays game is different. Mistakes last a long time.
I am not sure if I am more disgusted by the hire or the lack of respect shown on here. 99% of my thoughts have been respectful to other posters. Why do I not get the same respect?
Your getting no respect because you are sitting here pontificating how great of a fan you have been and for how long and now, when the team has seen better days and is getting back on the track to righting itself after the sideswipe of Creans departure, your jumping ship.
Your want respect? You dont get respect for being a fan for 30 years and then just deciding to leave when the program makes a decision that you are not fond of. If everyone had your mentality, no one would be at Marquette following the Gold mishap.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
99% of my thoughts have been respectful to other posters. Why do I not get the same respect?
Your arrogance is ridiculous. Plus the fact that you
only rely on hindsight makes you look foolish. "I should have canceled over hiring of Mike Deane and came back when TC arrived." Wow, what an original thought...... NOW. Go buy yourself some really expensive booze with your "family's money" and hopefully you will wake up after MU has another winning season next year.
Quote from: Strokin 3s on April 08, 2008, 09:20:48 AM
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
I find it almost comical that all the younger fans are so hostile. Guys, I am class of 1985, not 1885.
Some how I find it hard to believe you have had season tickets for 35 years then? Please explain to my simple brain how this works?
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM
"Four season tickets for 35y are being canceled.
Still waiting to hear on this GymBar?
Gymbar "Buying season tickets since I was 10 years old, everybody look at my dedication"
Strokin--Family has had tickets for 35y. Why is that hard to understand? I have paid every bill for tickets since 1987, prior to that folks did. Not really sure how or why having tickets would be questioned.
Ahh ok, well in that case someone before me had the same seats that I now currently sit in. I will count those years as my own, so I have now been a season ticket holder since Marquette Basketball began playing at the BC.
Now everyone come see how good I look.
Jay---Never said I was a great fan. I am not any greater fan than anyone on here. I do believe that length of loyalty does have merit. My Dad has been Packer fan since befoe I was born. It doesn't make him better fan, but I do take his thoughts into consideration more than I take my 18y sons. Experience is knowledge. My Dad has it and I don't.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 08:46:31 AM
Gimp--Thank you for the kind words. But actually with the money that my family has given to the school over the years I do believe they should take that into consideration. MU is a business and any good business caters to big customer first, medium customers second and infrequent customers last.
I have respected and cheered for MU bball program all my life. Hardly a blue hair, much closer to your age than a blue hair. I can tell you that I respect the older alumni that helped build the foundation of MU ball. The foundation was built in the 1970's and weathered the past 30 years relatively well. I for one do not want to see it crumble.
If your interest is having better seats and standing the whole game I respect that. I remember sitting upstairs at the Arena and the "Blue hairs" as you call them were on their feet. Winning teams create excitement.
I have zero problem with your comments other than they lack any respect to people that supported this program for a long time. If you are the future of this program, please study its' history. It is quite impressive. This program belongs to be guided by qualified people, not people who might be qualified if we only give him a chance.
Good luck young Warrior. The responsibility of a winning, classy organization is a big one. Do it right!!
Your tickets, your choice. You want to sell out of your season tickets...more power to you, but I still don't get why you would dump your tickets now. It just doesn't seem to make sense. Marquette had terrible patches in the 80's and 90's, including multiple losing seasons, and you chose to hold-on? We are returning 4 starters from a team with 25 wins and you want to bail out now? Many of the posts I have read today are totally irrational. People want Marquette to be "big time"....so do I....but, for whatever reason, we could not draw the interest of some of the "big" names being thrown around (e.g. Bennett, Miller, Self, etc.). So, everyone gets pissy, throughs a little internet tantrum, and says - "I'm dumping my season tickets and writing off Marquette forever." Stupidity.
Take three deep breaths and at least entertain the idea of Buzz being a good coach. Give him one season....evaluate his performance. If he doesn't live up to the standard that you think he should...that is when you cut-off your funding/donations. I hardly think that MU's hiring of Buzz Williams is the point at which you write off MU as a "sunk investment"....especially, when you claim to have held season tickets for 30 years. My God...enough with people around here acting lilke adolecent drama queens. ::)
Damn it. Give me my ball, I am going home.
I wonder what the Boxer Boys would think of GYMBARs dedication???
I too have been a season ticket holder for 30+ if we are counting others paying for my ticket. I also have been owning a car and house since birth. They may have been in my parents name and paid for by them, but i was there so i get credit for them. This is a fun delusional theory you live by GYMBAR.
MURFC--You made my point as well. I couldn't care less about next year. The new coach was about the future, not next season. If we lost the recruits so be it. Everyone on here is bashing me about being selfish, arrogant and self-centered and I am the only guy that does not care about next year.
I'd support a program that wanted to move forward, even if it took some time. Hiring a joke is not the answer. I would have no problem having a top coach come and lose every recruit for next year, James and McNeal go pro if we could get John Lacy and Jamil Wilson next year.
I am giving up my tickets because MU gave up a chance to get Lacy and Wilson in their own backyard. Why? To recruit third team all state Texas kids. Two top recruits in our own city and we hire a coach to recruit in Texas.
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on April 08, 2008, 09:41:46 AM
I wonder what the Boxer Boys would think of GYMBARs dedication???
HAHA
Quote from: MU gimp ONE on April 08, 2008, 09:41:46 AM
I wonder what the Boxer Boys would think of GYMBARs dedication???
I too have been a season ticket holder for 30+ if we are counting others paying for my ticket. I also have been owning a car and house since birth. They may have been in my parents name and paid for by them, but i was there so i get credit for them. This is a fun delusional theory you live by GYMBAR.
I too have owned my home since birth then as well!!! In fact, I now really consider my parents home my vacation home since I own the home I live in as well.
The clever responses are why MU hires a dud. They know their fan base and they play them. Over and out guys, sorry for caring. Not exactly sure on why longivity of tickets became relevant. As a fan I saw every home game from 1973 -1987, who care who paid for the tickets.
But keep up the clever rips on me. I have to get back to work and make some xtra money. Your arguments convinced me on keeping my tickets. Hopefully they can up the prices next year to pay for Buzz.
Look for me next year, I will be the guy with a great BUZZ going.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 07, 2008, 08:42:05 PM
MU fans----for once stand up for what is right. We are apathic for three decades. We are the laughingstock of NCAA as of 2pm tomorrow. That bothers me, doesn't it you?
UWM would not hire Buzz if they had an opening and we do.
That's the truth and it's depressing.
You are the only person on this board that is abandoning the team. You have questioned everyone on this boards fanhood (irony?). Your point is that you wonder why we went out and hired a no name guy to take over a program that had the opportunity to take the next step as far as college basketball programs. Why did we not go out and get a big name coach? You have to remember that Marquette is a Jesuit school with strong Jesuit values. The program wants their coach to exemplify these values. We want a guy that would graduate his kids, keep the class in the program, turn his kids into men. Crean did this things. Your Calipari's, Self's and handfuls of other top name coaches do not do this. They put results ahead of what it is a college intends to do for its students. I would rather MU turn out high quality student athletes, who are well spoken and prepared for a future other than their sport, then having a kid who can barely put together sentence any day of the week.
Bottom line is this, I am not happy with our coaching selection. Your right we could have done much better. A coach was hired and now we have to deal with it. Let him do his thing. You cant hate the guy because you wish he were someone else.
Jay--I agree on student athlete comments and Jesuit values. But if that is the case do we belong in the Big East? I am not supporting this decision because I love MU, the entire institution. There are coaches that graduate players and can compete. Standards are set by the school.
If we want to be in the Big East lets be in the Big East. Right now we look like a Horizon team pretending to be in the Big East. The fact that I will give up my tickets has zero do to with my feelings about the school. Like everyone on here I think the place does not get the credit it derserves. This hire just adds to that.
Supporting the school does not mean we have to accept everything they do. Maybe a thousand lost season tickets would speak volumes to the admin. I hope Buzz does great, but the risk is way too big for the reward.
Stunning...one of the most overly hysterical and irrational posts on this board...go ahead...protest. Give me a break.
Hiring an unknown coach because mid level recruits might back out is irrational.
What about our current players who will be coming back next year? Are you just going to give up on them? They're not giving up on the program, in fact almost all of them feel a sense of entitlement now. I dont think it would be good at all to give up on those guys. By having 1000 season ticket holders throw out their seats doesnt translate that great to the guys who put the sweat on the floor. The program is the players also, not just the coach. Would you give up on your sons basketball team just because of a new coach?
Jay---It sucks for guys on the current team. Is it fair that TC left and stole the recruits? Would it be fair if Jame and MCNeal went pro? When a coach leaves or is fired people suffer in the program. But, you cannot make a decision based on current team. Coach has to be selected for longterm.
Question for you and anyone else that cares to be honest---Let's agree we all have Jesuit values, IF MU HIRED CALIPARI TODAY WOULD YOU HAVE SAID IT WAS BAD HIRE BECAUSE OF HIS REPUATION?
I bet there were would be over 90% support of such a hire and it is because we want to win in ball and be respected around the country.
I would have loved to have been at the Arby's when Buzz got the call that he was getting the job!
I'm more than open to giving Buzz a chance, but here's the thing- it's one thing to roll the dice on an unproven coach when you don't have much to lose and are in the Horizon league....but when you're consistently ranked in the teens and a Big East conference member, you don't roll the dice. I could see if we were going to pay Buzz 60,000$ a year and then donate the remaining 940,000$ to charity...but we're paying this guy a million dollars to run a near-top-tier program.
Oh, but yeah! We are Marquette!! Whatever they decide to do, I'll trust!!! My word doesn't count because I only have one post!!! Shame on all of you for supporting this decision and calling yourself Marquette fans. You have been betrayed.
"Marquette is a Jesuit school with strong Jesuit values. The program wants their coach to exemplify these values. We want a guy that would graduate his kids, keep the class in the program, turn his kids into men."
Actually, Marquette is a corporation that exists to make money - both academically and athletically. Otherwise, the tickets would be free and they'd serve communion wine at the games instead of Miller Lite.
Quote from: claymate on April 08, 2008, 11:50:46 AM
"Marquette is a Jesuit school with strong Jesuit values. The program wants their coach to exemplify these values. We want a guy that would graduate his kids, keep the class in the program, turn his kids into men."
Actually, Marquette is a corporation that exists to make money - both academically and athletically. Otherwise, the tickets would be free and they'd serve communion wine at the games instead of Miller Lite.
Not sure I agree with that.
I mean, the Men's hoops program certainly makes money... but none of the other sports do... so it balances out (for athletics anyways).
2002 alum---That is why MU cannot afford for men's bball to fail. It covers expenses of all the losing sports. A losing bball team hurts the school and that is why you should be pissed.
I think this was a step backwards for Marquette basketball.
Crean could never recruit a big guy. He was so set on proving that he didn't have to, he stuck with his 3 guard system and ran that to the ground. He finally showed that you really can't get far in the tourney with that. I'm glad to see him go. I'm thankful for what he did to the program, but he showed he could only take it so far, it was time to let someone else take them over the hump
Crean was a great recruiter. He brought in good talent and I was very excited for next year's draft class... again no real big guy except for Otule, a little disappointing
Enter Buzz Williams, a great recruiter, but very little coaching experience. People say that it was great we kept him on because he's familiar with the current players and recruits. That's not a reason to hire a coach. You hire a coach based on what he can do to make your program better, not on the basis of "Who can we hire so our program doesn't go completely down the crapper next season". That's exactly what it looks like they did. It was a knee-jerk reaction to try and control the bleeding. McNeal and DJ will most likely go pro. Why return for one more season under a coach you don't know and didn't recruit you. Mbakwe is transfering. TT wants out of his commitment to MU. Then we had 3 seniors leave. So we'll be losing at least 7 players for next season. Unless Buzz can recruit like crazy in the next couple weeks, this program is going to be awful next year...
Next year's starting lineup: Acker, Cubillian, Matthews, Burke, Hayward. With a bench consisting of mostly freshmen. Not real impressive.
The disappointing part of this hire is that Marquette is in the top half of the toughest conference, and we weren't able to attract a "sexy name" with coaching experience. Buzz has had zero success coaching. He has one year at a tiny school.
It just seems to me that we're hiring another Tom Crean- great recruiter but people will question his coaching abilities. Actually, it's not even a Tom Crean hiring because Tom Crean came from a very successful program, whereas Buzz Williams has been a journey man for the most of his career at various programs, mostly small schools.
It seems like this hiring was made by a knee jerk reaction after the top names declined interest in order to preserve recruits and try and keep guys from leaving for the draft. I just think we could have done better with a little more time. I really do think people in higher places will chuckle at this hiring. We went from Tony Bennett to Buzz Williams... with no attempt at anything in between those two extremes... a program like Marquette should have done better.
These next 2 years we will not make the NCAA tourney, and then we'll try for a coaching change and spend another 2 years in mediocrity. This will even further inflate Crean's immortality status among half of MU fans. Sucks, because he really wasn't as great as people think he was. But I guess after years and years of just plain awful basketball, anything looks like the second coming.
I hope I'm wrong. I hope Buzz Williams turns out to be great. I hope he can recruit some amazing players. One positive on him is we get away from getting all our players from the Chicago area and have dipped into the East coast and Texas with Buzz... that's encouraging. But that's about it.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 12:09:12 PM
2002 alum---That is why MU cannot afford for men's bball to fail. It covers expenses of all the losing sports. A losing bball team hurts the school and that is why you should be pissed.
Agreed.
AND I hope that the powers that be at MU realize that (I'm guessing they do, they aren't dumb).
I don't know the first thing about Buzz Williams... so I'm going to withhold judgment until I see the product.
GYMBAR, I can't say I agree with your ranting (give the guy a chance), but I respect the fact that you are going to pull your tickets.
If you sincerely don't care for the product, don't pay for it. It's simple.
D-Ro-
Exactly....Crean is going to be deified in the next ten years, undeservedly. Don't be surprised to see "TC" on the jerseys in 30 years, when we're playing UWM for the Horizon league's automatic bid in the NCAA tournament.
Also, those of you spelling "you're" as "your" are not really buffing up Marquette's image as a great institution. Yowsa.
Quote from: D-Ro on April 08, 2008, 12:11:01 PM
This will even further inflate Crean's immortality status among half of MU fans. Sucks, because he really wasn't as great as people think he was. But I guess after years and years of just plain awful basketball, anything looks like the second coming.
What were these years and years of awful basketball? O'Neill's the one who saved us from those. In the seven years prior to Crean's arrival, we had 4 NCAA appearances with wins in two of them, including a sweet 16 run, six 20 win seasons, a conference regular season and a conference tournament championship and a trip to the NIT finals. We were hardly a basketball wasteland.
In Crean's nine years, we had five NCAA tournament births with wins in two of them, including a final four run. We've won one conference regular season title and no tournaments. Better, but really only slightly, and that was because of the tremendous 2003 season that we'll all remember forever.
Add in the advantages of facilities, budget, conference, etc., you can make a convincing argument that Crean merely kept the status quo in terms of the quality of the program.
What he definitely did do, however, was raise the PERCEPTION of the program, which is probably more important. Unfortunately, we did not capitalize on that with this hire.
Quote from: claymate on April 08, 2008, 12:16:31 PM
Also, those of you spelling "you're" as "your" are not really buffing up Marquette's image as a great institution. Yowsa.
Been a long semester... :)
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 08, 2008, 12:25:31 PM
Quote from: D-Ro on April 08, 2008, 12:11:01 PM
This will even further inflate Crean's immortality status among half of MU fans. Sucks, because he really wasn't as great as people think he was. But I guess after years and years of just plain awful basketball, anything looks like the second coming.
What were these years and years of awful basketball? O'Neill's the one who saved us from those. In the seven years prior to Crean's arrival, we had 4 NCAA appearances with wins in two of them, including a sweet 16 run, six 20 win seasons, a conference regular season and a conference tournament championship and a trip to the NIT finals. We were hardly a basketball wasteland.
In Crean's nine years, we had five NCAA tournament births with wins in two of them, including a final four run. We've won one conference regular season title and no tournaments. Better, but really only slightly, and that was because of the tremendous 2003 season that we'll all remember forever.
Add in the advantages of facilities, budget, conference, etc., you can make a convincing argument that Crean merely kept the status quo in terms of the quality of the program.
What he definitely did do, however, was raise the PERCEPTION of the program, which is probably more important. Unfortunately, we did not capitalize on that with this hire.
Good points. I guess I just remember back when I was real young going to games with my dad and seeing maybe 1/4 of the place filled... I think as long as we stayed in CUSA we weren't really going to be taken seriously in the NCAA. I mean look at Memphis. Every year they have 2-3 losses and only this year have they shown that they should be taken seriously. I think the move to the Big East increased the perception of the program as you put it. That was the best thing Crean did for this program.
I just think people give Crean too much credit. D. Wade made Crean, not the other way around. Crean's only claim to fame is Wade and that final 4 run. Before and after that... not too much. Yet people will continue to look at him as a god. I think Crean owes Wade a big thank you for the pay-day he got after Wade left...and continues to get
I extremely hate the hire but I am willing to give the guy a shot. From what I read, he is the one responsible for our incoming class and the four star coming in 2009. I really believe that Crean COULD NOT recruit and it seems like our incoming class is the best since Wade's Final Four run. Its probably no coincidence that our best class came in Williams first year. We have a four star coming in 2009. If he could recruit a couple more great players in 2009, lets hope he has the basketball knowledge to bring in wins. In all honesty, Calapari's strongest point is his recruiting. Maybe this guy can do the same. I think I need to get my praying on.
GO MU!
Quote from: ErickJD08 on April 08, 2008, 12:38:56 PM
I extremely hate the hire but I am willing to give the guy a shot. From what I read, he is the one responsible for our incoming class and the four star coming in 2009. I really believe that Crean COULD NOT recruit and it seems like our incoming class is the best since Wade's Final Four run. Its probably no coincidence that our best class came in Williams first year. We have a four star coming in 2009. If he could recruit a couple more great players in 2009, lets hope he has the basketball knowledge to bring in wins. In all honesty, Calapari's strongest point is his recruiting. Maybe this guy can do the same. I think I need to get my praying on.
GO MU!
Great post. I completely agree.
He is a great recruiter, which is kind of exciting, but he needs to be a good coach too. Hopefuly he is and he'll prove me wrong. I'd love to look back at this and realize how lucky we were to grab this guy.
D-Ro---TC gets way too much credit, both here and nationally, for DWade. So what!!! We had a chance to build on the smoke the mirrors and better the program.
I have watched MU ball a long time and have never seen so much angst about a hiring. I believe the reason is simple. Fans, alumni and students assumed we wanted to build a modest amount of success created by TC.
There are 50 guys that would have created an intelligent debate if they had been hired. The only thing anyone can positive is "lets see what he can do". Shame on MU for putting themselves/us in this situation. Of the 50 guys I probably would have argued 40 of them. But, I would have accepted and understood those hirings.
Obviously MU admin thinks the program is bigger than we do. They must believe that anyone can take over the keys to the BC.
Eric---The recruits want to be released. There are no recruits. They are gone.
they aren't all gone...
We should prtoest the GYMBAR.
Good LORD, ewnough already. we get it, you don't lik ethe hire. BooHoo. It is a done deal.
Boognish_MU- great name.
Yeah, we all need to be careful here or GymBar will stroke out.
"I just think people give Crean too much credit. D. Wade made Crean, not the other way around. Crean's only claim to fame is Wade and that final 4 run. Before and after that... not too much. Yet people will continue to look at him as a god. I think Crean owes Wade a big thank you for the pay-day he got after Wade left...and continues to get"
Chicken or the egg argument.
Crean recruited him and signed him... so no Crean... probably = no Wade... but no Wade... probably = no 3 amigos.
Also, the nature of all coaches is to get too much credit when things go well, and too much blame when they go wrong.
It's just the position.
Quote from: claymate on April 08, 2008, 11:50:46 AM
"Marquette is a Jesuit school with strong Jesuit values. The program wants their coach to exemplify these values. We want a guy that would graduate his kids, keep the class in the program, turn his kids into men."
Actually, Marquette is a corporation that exists to make money - both academically and athletically. Otherwise, the tickets would be free and they'd serve communion wine at the games instead of Miller Lite.
By that logic.....St. John's can serve all the beer they want because they are a Benedictine school.....those Belgian Benedictines have been brewing beer for centuries!!
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on April 08, 2008, 07:16:35 AM
Two ways you could be a Buzz supporter:
#1 You are TC croonie and you love being on the inside of program.
#2 You know NOTHING about college basketball.
I promise you no one is more surprised by this hiring more than Buz himself. Two weeks ago his name did not come up for ANY job.
Get a grip? I have spent a ton of money supporting following MU ball and now have a son attending there. Been a fan since Al and supported every lame decision. Not anymore.
Youll all have to suffer through this bump since I'm not able to sleep (Superbar maybe?) but holy crap this guy is hilarious... What a tool. I wasn't really sure on the Buzz hire but wow.
Love the conversation where he takes credit for the season tickets his family had while he was a kid.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 27, 2013, 11:18:37 PM
Youll all have to suffer through this bump since I'm not able to sleep (Superbar maybe?) but holy crap this guy is hilarious... What a tool. I wasn't really sure on the Buzz hire but wow.
Love the conversation where he takes credit for the season tickets his family had while he was a kid.
GREAT FIND !!!!!
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 27, 2013, 11:18:37 PM
Youll all have to suffer through this bump since I'm not able to sleep (Superbar maybe?) but holy crap this guy is hilarious... What a tool. I wasn't really sure on the Buzz hire but wow.
Love the conversation where he takes credit for the season tickets his family had while he was a kid.
a 5 year Hoop? Impressive. Why you hoopin'?
Call me a hoopin fan! I love when old threads are dusted off and varnished clean! This one is truly a gem! The original poster was a little off his rocker.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2013, 11:53:52 PM
a 5 year Hoop? Impressive. Why you hoopin'?
Sweet Sixteen induced insomnia. And procrastinating getting actual work done.
Quote from: TomW1365 on March 28, 2013, 12:03:36 AM
Call me a hoopin fan! I love when old threads are dusted off and varnished clean! This one is truly a gem! The original poster was a little off his rocker.
maybe we can add a space on the site for just hoopin? I know this bums out a few posters.
I am a fan of hoopin mainly because it should over time keep the discussion here a bit less crazy. Calling out the people who say in one post they don't care if TC leaves then crapping themselves when he does.... Predicting the end of MU bball when Buzz was hired....
The April 2008 threads are fun to peruse - make me feel especially grateful for our coach and program given how unnatural carnal knowledgeed I assumed the situation was when TC left.
Fun read this morning. Nothing from GYMBAR since '09 - I guess he really did hit the road.
1. Easier to slink away in shame and never return instead of owning a mistake.
2. Actually a troll?
3. Best hoopin yet.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 28, 2013, 12:20:19 AM
I am a fan of hoopin mainly because it should over time keep the discussion here a bit less crazy.
Reasonable.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/joewiesner1/GoogleImageResultforhttpnuclearsecrecycomblogwpcontentuploads201112StudythePastguyjpg_zps0ced9bfe.png)
When was Buzz hired? It says on wiki he joined the team as an assistant in 2008 and hired as head coach in April 2008. Did TC or the university hire him? Any chance they saw the writing on the wall and knew Buzz was the eventual replacement? I was younger and don't remember the details besides it seemed like a quick hire.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on March 28, 2013, 07:34:46 AM
When was Buzz hired? It says on wiki he joined the team as an assistant in 2008 and hired as head coach in April 2008. Did TC or the university hire him? Any chance they saw the writing on the wall and knew Buzz was the eventual replacement? I was younger and don't remember the details besides it seemed like a quick hire.
He was hired as an assistant on TC's staff. Then when TC left, he supposedly strongly recommended Buzz to be promoted as his replacement.
Buzz had a less than stellar first season at UNO. He was having trouble with admin paying his players per diem or having transportation at the airport when they would arrive. Stuff like that. So he quit. Now, there are versions that he quit without having anything lined up and Crean quickly snatched him up, or he already had an arrangement with Crean before he quit UNO. I don't know. However, Buzz was a legend among assistant coaches and he ended up working for Crean for a decent chunk of change shortly after he quit his old job. Summer of 07.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on March 28, 2013, 07:34:46 AM
When was Buzz hired? It says on wiki he joined the team as an assistant in 2008 and hired as head coach in April 2008. Did TC or the university hire him? Any chance they saw the writing on the wall and knew Buzz was the eventual replacement? I was younger and don't remember the details besides it seemed like a quick hire.
Hired as an assistant in July '07. Technically Crean and the university hired him; obviously doesn't come without Crean persuading him to join, and without the school committing to what was believed to be a very high assistants' salary. Doubt Crean knew in July 2007 he was for certain only going to be around for nine more months and wanted to find a successor; seemed moreso that the recruiting had been somewhat weak and Buzz was a strong assistant hire to work primarily on recruiting.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2928349
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10247984
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on March 28, 2013, 07:34:46 AM
Any chance they saw the writing on the wall and knew Buzz was the eventual replacement?
This is a theory I've had for some time. In hindsight, it makes sense given what happened, the amount of money he was paid as an assistant.
So, did THEGYMBAR stop posting after this thread?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 28, 2013, 07:52:00 AM
So, did THEGYMBAR stop posting after this thread?
My guess is that he is still out here somewhere...but under a different name. Like godzilla, the one who said that his neice said that Vander sucks. They are around.
Quote from: chapman on March 28, 2013, 07:47:08 AM
seemed moreso that the recruiting had been somewhat weak and Buzz was a strong assistant hire to work primarily on recruiting.
I seem to recall that Buzz was Billy Gillespie's top recruiter when he was at Texas A&M so that makes sense.
Buzz left Gillespie's staff to be the head coach at UNO. There was apparently something dishonest on the part of UNO and Buzz was not happy. That's when he left there to take the.assistant job on Crean's staff.
That could explain part of the larger salary to be an assistant...considering they hired him for a lower job title.
This is actually a worthwhile "bumped" thread.
I wasn't not, as most people were, overwhelmed by the Buzz hire. But that mainly had to do with the fact that the hire felt like all they did was slide a guy on the bench down a few seats and call it a day. I felt then, and still do, that the Marquette job is a very, very attractive one so as much as anything I was surprised we didn't get a "name" coach.
Obviously Buzz's tenure has vastly exceeded anything I could have anticipated. And he seems like a great guy on top of it.
I wasn't a Cottingham fan, but he hit a home run on this one.
Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.
As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.
If this thread tells us anything it that's mugimpone needs to come back.
Also I haven't lost it since 04/08.
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.
As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.
Hey man...I give you major props for stepping up. And it's safe to say that you've come full-circle on Buzz!!!
Yup, Goose, props for owning it. Do you still have your season tix? How long did it take you to come back in from the ledge?
I just wish THEGYMBAR used the term Hiroshima.
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.
As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.
Way to step up and own it, Goose. Wish the world (especially the message board world!) worked that way more often.
Tower
No on tickets and warmed up to Buzz as a person very quickly. However, I do go to games, especially the big ones. I thought Buzz was in over his head to some degree and have heard him say many times he never should have had this job. Became big Buzz guy probably around time I came back as Goose.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 07:50:35 AM
This is a theory I've had for some time. In hindsight, it makes sense given what happened, the amount of money he was paid as an assistant.
So if this is true, it was just a charade then to to go after Grant, Bennett per MU and Cottingham?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2013, 08:38:58 AM
So if this is true, it was just a charade then to to go after Grant, Bennett per MU and Cottingham?
No, that's where the theory tendded to fall apart. Then again, the move (to bring in Buzz as an asst.) may well have been made knowing the possibility existed. No guarantee it would work out that way, but certainly put himself in better position than if he had stayed at UNO. If it dodnt work out, he goes somewhe else. notjing ventured, nothing gained. That scenario to me is extremely feasible.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 07:50:35 AM
This is a theory I've had for some time. In hindsight, it makes sense given what happened, the amount of money he was paid as an assistant.
So does that mean when Buzz leaves, Isaac Chew is the obvious replacement?
Navin
Is Chew making big money a similar situation then? Was he brought in with same thought process?
Sultan
Sorry saying same thing as you did. Hit post too quickly. That has been my theory on the Chew hire as a possible backup plan.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 08:44:14 AM
No, that's where the theory tendded to fall apart. Then again, the move (to bring in Buzz as an asst.) may well have been made knowing the possibility existed. No guarantee it would work out that way, but certainly put himself in better position than if he had stayed at UNO. If it dodnt work out, he goes somewhe else. notjing ventured, nothing gained. That scenario to me is extremely feasible.
I would say it falls apart even way before that.
Crean signed a 10 year contract, Buzz quit because of a number of factors, one of which was the Katrina situation and how the school was figuring out what to do. Then you have the IU job opening up which no one knew that was going to happen (nor was Crean IU's first choice). Then you look at Buzz's history as an assistant, he never stayed longer than 4 years anywhere and never north of the Mason Dixon line.
That's a lot of big dominoes, all independent of one another to fall. Now you throw in the "search" that included a couple of other coaches before Buzz and well......let's just say it's a cute theory but nothing more. ;D
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 28, 2013, 08:46:10 AM
So does that mean when Buzz leaves, Isaac Chew is the obvious replacement?
Well, hopefully we don't find out. Certainly not going to dismiss the possibility though. That said, i don't believe he is making anywhere near what Buzz was being paid as an assistant, and the history/personal relationship between he and Buzz was far stronger than that of Buzz and Crean.
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.
As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.
Goose? One of the respected and level headed posters was THEGYMBAR? Well hindsight has made everyone look bad at one time or another.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
I would say it falls apart even way before that.
Crean signed a 10 year contract, Buzz quit because of a number of factors, one of which was the Katrina situation and how the school was figuring out what to do. Then you have the IU job opening up which no one knew that was going to happen...
Now who's being naive, Kay?
-- Michael Corleone
He's right.
Crean signed a 10 year extension with MU in Fall 2006.
Kelvin Sampson was named the head coach of the Hoosiers in Spring of 2006, and was forced to resign in February 2008. If Sampson would have kept his nose clean, there is not a chance that job opens up at that point. He was doing fairly well there.
Buzz Williams was named an MU assistant before the 2007 season.
No one is being naive...the timeline is pretty clear.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
I would say it falls apart even way before that.
Crean signed a 10 year contract, Buzz quit because of a number of factors, one of which was the Katrina situation and how the school was figuring out what to do. Then you have the IU job opening up which no one knew that was going to happen (nor was Crean IU's first choice). Then you look at Buzz's history as an assistant, he never stayed longer than 4 years anywhere and never north of the Mason Dixon line.
That's a lot of big dominoes, all independent of one another to fall. Now you throw in the "search" that included a couple of other coaches before Buzz and well......let's just say it's a cute theory but nothing more. ;D
Conspiracy theories are always popular because mysterious is more fun than the obvious. They're also usually wrong.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 28, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
Conspiracy theories are always popular because mysterious is more fun than the obvious. They're also usually wrong.
You are correct sir
hairy
If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 09:22:07 AM
hairy
If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.
Been saying that for years....there's been plenty of people that stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and have played psychoanalyst here just for giggles. ;D
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 09:22:07 AM
hairy
If Goose is one the respected and level headed posters on Scoop I think this board needs a shrink more than I do.
Goose - you're a passionate Warrior fan who calls it like he sees it, never gets personal and admits when he's wrong. Many here (myself included) could be better at following that example.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 28, 2013, 09:07:37 AM
Crean signed a 10 year extension with MU in Fall 2006.
I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years. Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 28, 2013, 09:07:37 AM
Kelvin Sampson was named the head coach of the Hoosiers in Spring of 2006, and was forced to resign in February 2008. If Sampson would have kept his nose clean, there is not a chance that job opens up at that point.
But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 09:46:07 AM
I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years. Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.
But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.
I think you are missing the timelines. It's not nearly as hard as you make it out. Crean signed a 10 year extension, he had no idea that the IU job would be open in 2 years.
NONE. He wasn't even their first choice. No one is going to argue with you that the contract doesn't mean anything, just like any other coaches contract. We all get that. No one disputes that nor does anyone dispute Smart's contract with VCU means a hill of beans.
When Sampson was hired, the mess hadn't started yet, that was a year AFTER Crean signed a contract at MU. Yes, it was a gigantic mess...I didn't say it would take 5 years to clean up, I said it would take 5 years to get back to the level of where IU should be. It took about 2 years to clean up, and a lot of painful losses with players (especially year one and two) that had no business playing at IU, let alone the Big Ten (not all players, but a lot of them). But to get them back, yeah, that was a 5 year plan which is what Glass, TC and the powers that be knew it would take. That's why there was no panic at year 3 when many were saying he was going to get fired.
So let's just stop with foolishness on this one.
Quote from: Goose on March 28, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Goose is THEGYMBAR. Willing to take any abuse out there over comments made in 2008 regarding Buzz, the coach. Not going to rehash my comments on the process of the hiring, which I felt was poor then and still feel that way.
As for changing names, honestly not sure why that was done. In looking back it seems like I took a ten month break from posting and came back as Goose.
Props for owning up. If "Goose" is a Top Gun reference, you have totally redeemed yourself.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 09:46:07 AM
I'm sorry, Perhaps I've been asleep for the last 5 years. Is Crean still coaching MU? How many of those 10 years did he stick around for? That extension has nothing to do with anything. Why wouldn't he sign it whether he planned to stay or not? So if Coach K or Roy williams retire, and Duke or UNC come knocking on Shaka Smart's door, he's going to turn them down because he signed a 10 year extension? Ridiculous. He may turn them down, but it isn't going to be because of his contract with VCU.
But he didn't, and the trouble didn't begin in Feb of 2008, it ended there. You honestly think that was the first anyone knew about it, or that he may be in trouble? Please. As CBB is constantly reminding us, I4 was a gigantic mess, that took five years to clean up. That doesn't happen overnight, nor without a whole lot of people knowing what's going on.
You highlighted two parts of the post, which lead me to believe that you tought they were linked, and insinuated that we were naive.
I know contracts are worthless so it didn't surprise me that Crean left. However it simply doesn't make sense that he knew the Indiana job was going to open up, and that he would get the job, in the summer of 2007 when he hired Buzz. None whatsoever.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2013, 10:10:29 AM
I think you are missing the timelines. It's not nearly as hard as you make it out. Crean signed a 10 year extension, he had no idea that the IU job would be open in 2 years. NONE.
Nobody's arguing that, nor did I bring that up. It isn't relevant. You jokers brought up the completely meaningless contract extension. The time line I was talking about was relative to to Buzz William's hiring at Marquette. He cam to MU in July, sampson was out by the following February, and Crean was there in April. To suggest that a whole lot of people don't know there was trouble brewing at I4 6-8 months before it became public and Sampson was shown the door is incredibly naiave. Again, was it laid out and set in stone? No, of course not. Were people positioning themselves knowing the possibility/opportunity existed? I think you'd be foolish to think otherwise.
That said, I've lost interest. Planned or not, MU upgraded their coach.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 28, 2013, 10:10:29 AM
No one is going to argue with you that the contract doesn't mean anything, just like any other coaches contract. We all get that. No one disputes that nor does anyone dispute Smart's contract with VCU means a hill of beans.
Not to nitpick, but a contract extension like Crean's at MU or Smart's at VCU
does have implications... it makes it more expensive for another school to hire them away. In Crean's case there aren't many schools that would have been able to afford buying him out of his contract plus giving him a raise.
Same thing applies to Smart now. It gives the coach reasonably secure income, and reduces the number of legitimate competitors for Smart's services.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 28, 2013, 10:24:06 AM
Not to nitpick, but a contract extension like Crean's at MU or Smart's at VCU does have implications... it makes it more expensive for another school to hire them away. In Crean's case there aren't many schools that would have been able to afford buying him out of his contract plus giving him a raise.
Same thing applies to Smart now. It gives the coach reasonably secure income, and reduces the number of legitimate competitors for Smart's services.
IIRC, wasn't Crean's buyout on the light side?
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 28, 2013, 10:20:46 AM
Nobody's arguing that, nor did I bring that up. It isn't relevant. You jokers brought up the completely meaningless contract extension. The time line I was talking about was relative to to Buzz William's hiring at Marquette. He cam to MU in July, sampson was out by the following February, and Crean was there in April. To suggest that a whole lot of people don't know there was trouble brewing at I4 6-8 months before it became public and Sampson was shown the door is incredibly naiave.
The allegations about Sampson at IU didn't surface until October 2007....a few months after Buzz Williams was hired at MU.
There is absolutely no connection whatsoever. Don't label people as "naive" simply because you can't find evidence for assertions that don't exist.
And, for what it's worth, I bet recruits hear that the coach is signed til 2028, and it makes them feel good about picking that school because they think that the coach is "under contract" and will always be there.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 28, 2013, 10:29:41 AM
And, for what it's worth, I bet recruits hear that the coach is signed til 2028, and it makes them feel good about picking that school because they think that the coach is "under contract" and will always be there.
Not sure if that was made public. My understanding of Buzz's contract is that the buyout is large ($3m-ish?) for a 6 year rolling agreement?
Point is I'm not afraid of losing Buzz because his contract just ran out and whoops he leaves... it's from a Kentucky/Texas/etc hiring him away and buying out his contract.
if we keep Buzz's buyout high I can't imaging Texas being able to afford firing Barnes (who is already among the highest paid HCs and must have a hefty buyout in place), buying out Buzz, and then giving Buzz a raise on top of that.
Brought it up in other threads but the Texas legislature held up a $200k raise for Barnes last year. I'm just not concerned about that as a place Buzz would leave for.
mmmm...bump
bump
awesome bump - how did the 2008 protest turn out?
Quote from: LAZER on April 01, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
bump
So you're going to bump a thread protesting the Buzz Williams hire?
I assume this is to remind us how many protesters their were in 2008 to the Buzz hire and despite the number of protesters, there was still plenty of crow to go around?
Welcome Coach Wojo!
Thank you for bumping this.
STFU about the Wojo hire, unless its to welcome him.
Welcome to MU coach.
ha! I was just watching some of these threads and thinking to myself..."this looks awfully familiar to when MU hired Buzz".
Hope it works out as well or better than the Buzz hire. Time will tell...
Bump.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on April 01, 2014, 10:22:18 AM
Thank you for bumping this.
STFU about the Wojo hire, unless its to welcome him.
Welcome to MU coach.
AMEN