After 9 seasons of Crean-o-mania including a FF, entry into the Big East, the Al, $$$$, charter air travel, yada, yada, and more yada, Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
So Crean, for all his antics and side shows, didn't elevate the program beyond the level at which he inherited it. Instead the end result is his stock escalated and we're just where we started.
Or, perhaps it takes someone like a Crean to elevate it....ever think of it that way?
As much as some of you hated Crean, he made a world of difference to many players, reporters, etc. Perception is reality, regardless if he is liked or not.
Now it's time to see if any old coach can do the job as many here have implied
When Crean was our coach I do believe that did help in considering us a MAJOR program. I think the next coach who is hired says alot about if we are a mid-major or major program.
I have a sick feeling some of the Crean haters (prior to his depature) are going to see how good we had it when he was here.
Crean did Marquette a lot of good in raising our perception of being a big time program. We are in much better shape than 9 years ago. I believe we will hire an excellent coach to replace Crean. Why are people always so negative?
Billy Packer's an pretty boy. Marquette is in the top half of the best basketball conference in the land. This is a major program we're fans of. I find it hard to think of even 20 schools that are more "major" than us.
amen sox fan (i hope that's the red sox, not the pale hose) packer is an overrated, average, ACC shill who was resented the attention McGuire got, especially when they were on the broadcast together.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2008, 09:20:04 PM
Or, perhaps it takes someone like a Crean to elevate it....ever think of it that way?
As much as some of you hated Crean, he made a world of difference to many players, reporters, etc. Perception is reality, regardless if he is liked or not.
Now it's time to see if any old coach can do the job as many here have implied
Totally agree. I would venture a guess ESPN Gameday will be in Bloomington before it returns to milwaukee. Crean was an outstanding promoter while at MU. Youcan almost tell by the fear in the boards how much Crean meant to MU.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 04, 2008, 11:06:44 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2008, 09:20:04 PM
Or, perhaps it takes someone like a Crean to elevate it....ever think of it that way?
As much as some of you hated Crean, he made a world of difference to many players, reporters, etc. Perception is reality, regardless if he is liked or not.
Now it's time to see if any old coach can do the job as many here have implied
Totally agree. I would venture a guess ESPN Gameday will be in Bloomington before it returns to milwaukee. Crean was an outstanding promoter while at MU. Youcan almost tell by the fear in the boards how much Crean meant to MU.
I agree that he was an outstanding promoter. He's like the PT Barnum of college basketball. In the last few days I've come to realize that he's more of a salesman than a coach. With the talent he's had, this program should have had much more postseason success.
Yup. He had us in the national spotlight all the timean that is not only important but its priceless.
As I've said often, he will be VERY difficult to replace. There are some guys, but what Rosiak is reporting is not a list that I would say are the guys that would capture that.
Let's hope a rabbit is up someone's sleeve.
Or a monkey jumps out of someone's ass.
Quote from: MUsoxfan on April 04, 2008, 10:22:32 PM
Billy Packer's an pretty boy. Marquette is in the top half of the best basketball conference in the land. This is a major program we're fans of. I find it hard to think of even 20 schools that are more "major" than us.
Not so hard, really:
Connecticut
Louisville
Georgetown
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
North Carolina
Duke
Maryland
Kentucky
LSU
Arkansas
Tennessee
Florida
Indiana
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Illinois
Xavier
Kansas
Oklahoma
Texas
Oklahoma State
Gonzaga
UCLA
Arizona
Memphis
That's 26 off the top of my head in less than 2 minutes. I'm sure there are more. Basically just about every school that is the University of a State or a State University in one of the big 6 conferences are also strategically in a better position than us (Like Michigan, Minnesota, Colorado, Missouri, Oregon, North Carolina State, West Virginia, etc). Besides that, there are lots of schools we are in a group with, like Villanova.
We are a top 50 program, and probably closer to a top 30 program. RIGHT NOW. But like it or not, we are closer to a group with schools like Villanova, Saint Johns, Clemson, etc than we are to UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. We are dependent on the coach to make the program. (See what happened to Nova after Massimino left, DePaul after the elder Meyer, Seton Hall after Carlesimo, Saint John's after Carnesseca, Georgetown after the elder Thompson, us after McGuire).
MU is one screwed up coach hiring away, from looking up at DePaul and St. Johns in the Big East
So, it is looking like Crean took the program to the big-time, rather than the program taking Crean to the big-time. It is looking more like we were the Tom Crean Show at Marquette, rather than the Marquette Show with Tom Crean. That it took a hyper used car snake oil salesman to get us onto college game day, to make Katz, Bilas, Forde, Vitale to give two craps about MU. So, what we are now hoping for is someone who is exactly like Crean, only better with the X's and O's, and with a personality that will soothe PRN. ::)
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 05, 2008, 09:20:13 AM
Quote from: MUsoxfan on April 04, 2008, 10:22:32 PM
Billy Packer's an pretty boy. Marquette is in the top half of the best basketball conference in the land. This is a major program we're fans of. I find it hard to think of even 20 schools that are more "major" than us.
Not so hard, really:
Connecticut
Louisville
Georgetown
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
North Carolina
Duke
Maryland
Kentucky
LSU
Arkansas
Tennessee
Florida
Indiana
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Illinois
Xavier
Kansas
Oklahoma
Texas
Oklahoma State
Gonzaga
UCLA
Arizona
Memphis
That's 26 off the top of my head in less than 2 minutes. I'm sure there are more. Basically just about every school that is the University of a State or a State University in one of the big 6 conferences are also strategically in a better position than us (Like Michigan, Minnesota, Colorado, Missouri, Oregon, North Carolina State, West Virginia, etc). Besides that, there are lots of schools we are in a group with, like Villanova.
We are a top 50 program, and probably closer to a top 30 program. RIGHT NOW. But like it or not, we are closer to a group with schools like Villanova, Saint Johns, Clemson, etc than we are to UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. We are dependent on the coach to make the program. (See what happened to Nova after Massimino left, DePaul after the elder Meyer, Seton Hall after Carlesimo, Saint John's after Carnesseca, Georgetown after the elder Thompson, us after McGuire).
I disagree with some of those, but you're right. We're probably in the 25-30 range at this point in time today. Not in the past...or the future. I still think it's a hell of an opportunity that many coaches would love to jump on
Quote from: tower912 on April 05, 2008, 09:31:45 AM
So, it is looking like Crean took the program to the big-time, rather than the program taking Crean to the big-time.
I don't think that is quite the case. While many schools like the ones I mentioned have natural advantages over us, we do have a lot to offer to a motivated, talented coach (particularly one who looks at what we are, rather than what we aren't) in terms of resources, facilities, support and just plain enthusiasm. With the right guy, there's a lot Marquette can offer. It's just that with the wrong guy, we can drop below the top 100 level rather quickly.
That's why the BoT and Cottingham need to take great, great care with this hire.
top 25-30 is the lower 90 percentile of all programs.
A-/B+ is not necessarily elite- but pretty darned high for a 'mid-major', imo.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
After 9 seasons of Crean-o-mania including a FF, entry into the Big East, the Al, $$$$, charter air travel, yada, yada, and more yada, Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
So Crean, for all his antics and side shows, didn't elevate the program beyond the level at which he inherited it. Instead the end result is his stock escalated and we're just where we started.
Pretty sure i wouldn't have been able to watch many games on tv from the west coast if we were a mid major program.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
After 9 seasons of Crean-o-mania including a FF, entry into the Big East, the Al, $$$$, charter air travel, yada, yada, and more yada, Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
So Crean, for all his antics and side shows, didn't elevate the program beyond the level at which he inherited it. Instead the end result is his stock escalated and we're just where we started.
Isn't the fact that Crean left for Indiana pretty solid evidence that even he considers MU a mid-major program that's a stepping-stone to the big time? O'Neil did the same thing when he abandoned MU to go to Tenn., a school that was in a much better conference at the time. Also, the head coaches at Wash. St., Xavier and VCU have no interest in MU. That says quite a bit right there. All MU can attract are coahces at small-time programs looking to move up or assistants at big-time programs looking for a head coaching job. That's been the school's history since Al retired. If we were a major program, we wouldn't have crashed back to earth as soon as D. Wade left. Getting lucky once every 10 or 20 years with a great player who was under the radar is probably the best we can hope for. The unfortunate truth is, MU has been a mid-major ever since Al retired. I've been trying to convince myself otherwise for 30 years--I graduated in '77. But Crean's sudden departure is the final nail in the coffin. At least we are a high level mid-major now, which certainly wasn't the case when Crean came here.
Quote from: WarriorHal on April 05, 2008, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
After 9 seasons of Crean-o-mania including a FF, entry into the Big East, the Al, $$$$, charter air travel, yada, yada, and more yada, Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
So Crean, for all his antics and side shows, didn't elevate the program beyond the level at which he inherited it. Instead the end result is his stock escalated and we're just where we started.
Isn't the fact that Crean left for Indiana pretty solid evidence that even he considers MU a mid-major program that's a stepping-stone to the big time? O'Neil did the same thing when he abandoned MU to go to Tenn., a school that was in a much better conference at the time. Also, the head coaches at Wash. St., Xavier and VCU have no interest in MU. That says quite a bit right there. All MU can attract are coahces at small-time programs looking to move up or assistants at big-time programs looking for a head coaching job. That's been the school's history since Al retired. If we were a major program, we wouldn't have crashed back to earth as soon as D. Wade left. Getting lucky once every 10 or 20 years with a great player who was under the radar is probably the best we can hope for. The unfortunate truth is, MU has been a mid-major ever since Al retired. I've been trying to convince myself otherwise for 30 years--I graduated in '77. But Crean's sudden departure is the final nail in the coffin. At least we are a high level mid-major now, which certainly wasn't the case when Crean came here.
Flawed logic.
Did Roy Williams consider Kansas a mid-major because he left for North Carolina? Do you think anyone in their right mind would consider Kansas a mid-major?
Most of the coaches you named, also told Indiana they weren't interested. Does that make IU a mid-major? Does it make WSU and Xavier better programs than IU? Come on guys, let's not go over board here. Each situation is different. I'm disappointed too and I think their is a good chance that we are going to take a step back after Crean but we are a long way from a mid-major right now.
But hey, believe what you want. I guess our team should just quit. You can go suck start a shotgun if you want but I am going to wait and see.
Flawed logic.
Did Roy Williams consider Kansas a mid-major because he left for North Carolina? Do you think anyone in their right mind would consider Kansas a mid-major?
Most of the coaches you named, also told Indiana they weren't interested. Does that make IU a mid-major? Does it make WSU and Xavier better programs than IU? Come on guys, let's not go over board here. Each situation is different. I'm disappointed too and I think their is a good chance that we are going to take a step back after Crean but we are a long way from a mid-major right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Williams made a lateral move because of his long-time personal ties to North Carolina. He went from major to major; nobody, including Williams, considered it a move up. And at this point, I'm not sure what post-Knight Indiana is. A so-so program in a so-so conference looking at possible NCAA sanctions. Crean can battle it out with Northwestern and Penn St. I can see why not everybody was anxious to jump into this situation.
Quote from: WarriorHal on April 05, 2008, 12:32:45 PM
Flawed logic.
Did Roy Williams consider Kansas a mid-major because he left for North Carolina? Do you think anyone in their right mind would consider Kansas a mid-major?
Most of the coaches you named, also told Indiana they weren't interested. Does that make IU a mid-major? Does it make WSU and Xavier better programs than IU? Come on guys, let's not go over board here. Each situation is different. I'm disappointed too and I think their is a good chance that we are going to take a step back after Crean but we are a long way from a mid-major right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy Williams made a lateral move because of his long-time personal ties to North Carolina. He went from major to major; nobody, including Williams, considered it a move up. And at this point, I'm not sure what post-Knight Indiana is. A so-so program in a so-so conference looking at possible NCAA sanctions. Crean can battle it out with Northwestern and Penn St. I can see why not everybody was anxious to jump into this situation.
Here's the problem I am having with the mid-major claims. It seems that people are trying to say that there are three types of teams; major, mid-major, and small. Therefore if a coach leaves us for another school, he must consider it a move from mid-major to major. This is a flawed argument IMO.
I see the breakdown like this.
Elite Programs: Schools with consistent tradition of excellence and the ability to sustain it i.e. budget, recruiting location, fan base, national recognition, etc. I can think of 6 schools off the top of my head
UCLA
Duke
Kansas
North Carolina
Kentucky
Indiana
High Major Programs: 20-30 schools that are cosistently in the top 25, competitive on a national level, and regularly appear in the NCAAs with a top 8 seed. I would include MU in this group under Crean. I also consider schools like Xavier, Wisconsin, Pitt, Oklahoma, etc. at this level.
Major Programs: Teams in major conferences that have the assets to stay competitive and potentially bump up to the High Major level but have not experienced the recent success of the High Majors. Teams like Michigan, Iowa, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and North Carolina State come to mind here.
Mid Majors: Teams not in power conferences that will not consistently compete on a national level but may go through successful stretches and pull off the occasional upset run in the tourney. See, UWM, Southern Illinois, Kent State, Davidson.
Small: Teams that even if they go undefeated and win their conference tournaments are still 15/16 seeds in the tourney.
So, just because a coach leaves a school because he sees it as a step up does not make that school a mid-major program. Likewise if a coach decides he doesn't see MU as a step up doesn't mean he thinks it is a step, or two by my rankings, down.
Regardless of sanctions and turmoil, MU is not IU and probably never will be. Hell, Memphis is in a final four and I think many would still consider Calipari to IU a step up. But just because we aren't Indiana doesn't mean we are UWM.
Wow, who cares about any of this garbage!
First, Billy Packer sucks...SUCKS! Nobody cares what he says, period, at least anybody with brains.
Second, I could care less about mid-major (we are the top 4 in win % in the best conference in the country--we're NOT A MID MAJOR!), elite program, any of that crap--what we are right now, and need to be in the future, is a WINNING program. Keep winning, and we really can't be ignored. Keep winning, and Gameday will show up. Keep winning, and Bilas, Katz, et. al. will be FORCED to talk about us. Keep winning, and we'll sell out. Keep winning, and we'll get recruits.
Quote from: MUSF on April 05, 2008, 02:14:44 PM
I see the breakdown like this.
Elite Programs: Schools with consistent tradition of excellence and the ability to sustain it i.e. budget, recruiting location, fan base, national recognition, etc. I can think of 6 schools off the top of my head
UCLA
Duke
Kansas
North Carolina
Kentucky
Indiana
Here's what I've been racking my brain with for the last few days - where did that list come from? It seems like it was established in 1987 and then it was declared that there should be no adjustments to it, ever again. Had the decision been made 10 years earlier we might have made the list. Indiana has done nothing in the last 20 years. They haven't been higher than a 4 seed (once) in the tournament in all that time, they got 1 final 4 as an 8 seed. They won only 2 championships that anyone under 50 had a chance of seeing. Many schools have had much more success than they have over that time - Mich St., UConn, etc. How does the list change - when does a program gain or lose "elite" status?
Where do you rate DePaul. Major or mid major. Sometimes we are better than them and sometimes they are better than us. Lately under Crean, we have been better. I certainly would not consider DePaul close to being a major program. I think you guys have a misconception about MU. I also think coaches realize it could end their career if they sink to the bottom third of the Big East here. It really is not that attractive of a job based on risk.
Mean crap to me.
Packer has never been a head coach of a major program. (His only coaching experience was as an assistant with Wake Forest, his alma mater.)
But if you want to see the PR guy at his best, look at the t-shirts that are slowly unifying the IU faithful: LINK (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=crean&sacat=64482%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=95138&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2)
Crean's a great ringmaster. But is he an elite coach? Dunno. But he is at an elite program.
We're Elite...only according to Nike and the MU faithful.
The fact Crean's name is first on those shirts says alot about ole Tommy
Billy Packer is a no talent a$$ clown. Don't believe anything that hater says.
Quote from: bilsu on April 05, 2008, 02:55:46 PM
Where do you rate DePaul. Major or mid major. Sometimes we are better than them and sometimes they are better than us. Lately under Crean, we have been better. I certainly would not consider DePaul close to being a major program. I think you guys have a misconception about MU. I also think coaches realize it could end their career if they sink to the bottom third of the Big East here. It really is not that attractive of a job based on risk.
Ask yourself this, where would DePaul be in the MAC? I beleive that DePaul, Seton Hall, Rutgers, would probably win a mid-major conference and has the potential to pull some upsets in the tourney. DePaul and other major programs consistently get more talent than mid-majors and have the potential for sustained success. I don't think UWM or Central Michigan have the same potential as DePaul or other mediocre major programs for sustained success. I realize that this may simply be semantics but I think there is a distinct difference between MU and "mid-majors" based on their conference strength and potential for sustained success.
Here's the problem I am having with the mid-major claims. It seems that people are trying to say that there are three types of teams; major, mid-major, and small. Therefore if a coach leaves us for another school, he must consider it a move from mid-major to major. This is a flawed argument IMO.
I see the breakdown like this.
Elite Programs: Schools with consistent tradition of excellence and the ability to sustain it i.e. budget, recruiting location, fan base, national recognition, etc. I can think of 6 schools off the top of my head
UCLA
Duke
Kansas
North Carolina
Kentucky
Indiana
High Major Programs: 20-30 schools that are cosistently in the top 25, competitive on a national level, and regularly appear in the NCAAs with a top 8 seed. I would include MU in this group under Crean. I also consider schools like Xavier, Wisconsin, Pitt, Oklahoma, etc. at this level.
Major Programs: Teams in major conferences that have the assets to stay competitive and potentially bump up to the High Major level but have not experienced the recent success of the High Majors. Teams like Michigan, Iowa, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and North Carolina State come to mind here.
Mid Majors: Teams not in power conferences that will not consistently compete on a national level but may go through successful stretches and pull off the occasional upset run in the tourney. See, UWM, Southern Illinois, Kent State, Davidson.
Small: Teams that even if they go undefeated and win their conference tournaments are still 15/16 seeds in the tourney.
So, just because a coach leaves a school because he sees it as a step up does not make that school a mid-major program. Likewise if a coach decides he doesn't see MU as a step up doesn't mean he thinks it is a step, or two by my rankings, down.
Regardless of sanctions and turmoil, MU is not IU and probably never will be. Hell, Memphis is in a final four and I think many would still consider Calipari to IU a step up. But just because we aren't Indiana doesn't mean we are UWM.
_________________________________________________________________
I think I see what you are saying...it's a matter of how you define things. What you classify as elite, I call major. MU used to be on a par nationally with major programs like Indiana and Kentucky and several steps below (along with everybody else) John Wooden's great UCLA teams. When the players McGuire recruited were gone, MU quickly declined to what I consider mid-major status under Raymonds and never recovered. I thought MU was finally back to major/elite status in '03, but it turned out to be a one-year deal because of DWade. Looking at your five classes, I would place MU in the high major category (as do you), but in danger of falling into the major group depending on the fallout from this coaching change. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that MU was on a par with UWM and Kent St. During my four years, MU was 101-18, played in two final fours and won one national championship. So my idea of what "major" means is probably 30 years out of date and completely unrealistic.
"I would place MU in the high major category (as do you), but in danger of falling into the major group depending on the fallout from this coaching change."
Agree 100%.
I agree with the above. This is the best description I have read of the types of programs and where MU fits in.
I also agree that IU is an elite school and it was a step up for Crean. Like he said "It's Indiana."
That brings up another thought/question. IU is on its third head coach since The General left. Essentially they have been a high major program with an elite reputation. If Crean doesn't deliver. By that I mean regular final appearances a-la UNC and UCLA, does IU fall off the list of elite programs?
If so, Crean will be credited with creating two "High Major" programs. Except one started as a major program and the other started as an elite program. This is why IU is taking a big gamble with Crean. If Crean cannot deliver, then IU basketball becomes Wisconsin or Michigan State basketball.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 05, 2008, 03:42:10 PM
I agree with the above. This is the best description I have read of the types of programs and where MU fits in.
I also agree that IU is an elite school and it was a step up for Crean. Like he said "It's Indiana."
That brings up another thought/question. IU is on its third head coach since The General left. Essentially they have been a high major program with an elite reputation. If Crean doesn't deliver. By that I mean regular final appearances a-la UNC and UCLA, does IU fall off the list of elite programs?
If so, Crean will be credited with creating two "High Major" programs. Except one started as a major program and the other started as an elite program. This is why IU is taking a big gamble with Crean. If Crean cannot deliver, then IU basketball becomes Wisconsin or Michigan State basketball.
I definitely think that IU is in danger of losing its "elite" status. They are on the verge of becoming the ND of college BBall. Exactly why a one man PR machine is a smart hire. Crean's #1 job now is to get people to care about IU again. If he does that, the recruits will come and he will be successful. If Indiana had kept recruits in state, they would never have ended up in this position to begin with.
where do the 10 Big East teams behind us this year rank? How about the bottom six Big Ten teams? Or the bottom four ACC teams? I guess we can wipe out the Atlantic 10, two-thirds of the SEC and half the Big 12. Packer is an absolute fool who was carried by Al for years and was always jealous of his success.
Great list.
Kids leaving early for the NBA has changed everything (along with AAU, national TV for hs games, etc.). If you are a McD's AA, there are a few schools you trust to go to so you don't jeopardize your paycheck. A new meaning to "one and done". Those are the elite schools in my book..and the fall out from that is McD AA's who don't pan out, transfer after freshman year to a place where they can get PT (see Duke).
Building a team around a system is about building around the three and four star recruits. Schools like Duke, Kentucky and Indiana are now in danger of dropping a level. Ohio State, Georgetown and Louisville are moving up. Seriously, with the team TC has right now, IU is the fifth best team in their state. That is not elite.
TC was a great hire for the IU program to move them back up. He is good at the national pub. But, the cutters want someone to talk hoops in the barber shop. He has a tough job ahead of him, and he better improve his x's and o's for the oldtimers--as that is all they want to talk about. No doubt he will get them from Point A to Point B...like here, the question will be about getting back to Point C.
Quote from: ecompt on April 05, 2008, 04:00:52 PM
w Packer is an absolute fool who was carried by Al for years and was always jealous of his success.
I like the grade Packer gets on this list:
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/new/ncaa-tournament-cbs-announcers-41921
Not terribly surprising out of his mouth. But seriously, show some respect for your school's oldest rival [us].
What says it all and several of us warned you, is that some MU fans overvalued MU and UNDERvalued Crean.
As I said often, look at the hires and candidates by MU in the last 25 years. Raymonds, Majerus, Dukiet.
Then Cords arrived and hired KO, a good hire. He tried to keep things going with Deane,..not a bad hire but not great either. Then Crean...a GREAT hire.
Problem is that it's. A situation where MU is in a persistent pickle where they need a tremendous coach to make it work. People aren't falling over themselves to play or coach at MU.
I'll say it again, many people undervalued Crean and overvalued MU at times.
I hope I'm wrong, it would be great if MU could hire away a NCAA coach at a major school rather then settling for assistants or midmajor coaches, but that seems to be the deal.
Shame, but something many of us have seen coming for a long time
Quote from: mugrack on April 05, 2008, 09:25:46 AM
MU is one screwed up coach hiring away, from looking up at DePaul and St. Johns in the Big East
I agree 1000%... and that's why I was a Crean fan.
MU is a great school and a nice hoops program... but let's face it, it takes a special coach to win at a smaller catholic school.
If you don't believe me, look at the laundry list of catholic schools that have struggled after having coaches leave.
I know some people hate Crean now, but the guy brought a lot of wins, marketing and excitement to the program.
We are in a dangerous spot right now...
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
After 9 seasons of Crean-o-mania including a FF, entry into the Big East, the Al, $$$$, charter air travel, yada, yada, and more yada, Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
So Crean, for all his antics and side shows, didn't elevate the program beyond the level at which he inherited it. Instead the end result is his stock escalated and we're just where we started.
When Crean was hired nine years ago, every single person posting here would have been thrilled with a Final Four appearance, regular NCAA appearances, playing near the top of the Big East, graduating 89% of his players and not a whiff of probation. To say he didn't elevate the program is rediculous. Did he elevate like Calipari did Memphis or Howland did UCLA? Nope. But he was good for MU. The second best in MU's history by a long shot.
And I agree, Marquette can easilly be where De Paul or St. John's are now. Really only one bad hire away.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on April 05, 2008, 04:16:16 PM
Quote from: ecompt on April 05, 2008, 04:00:52 PM
w Packer is an absolute fool who was carried by Al for years and was always jealous of his success.
I like the grade Packer gets on this list:
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/new/ncaa-tournament-cbs-announcers-41921
Me, too, but look at how Gumbel got a B+ (top 5). Please. I don't know how credible this list is.
As far as the whole "perception" of what MU is considered in the national spotlight (major, mid-major, etc), i don't think anybody who is an MU student or MU grad can answer this fairly--especially somebody who is stuck in '77 or even '03. i would love to think we're a top 30 program right now, but i would bet that people who have no ties to MU would consider us top 50, not top 30. If any of you noticed the posts from that Xavier fan a day or two ago, he was convinced XU was a better program hands-down. It's tough to judge overall considering we keep convincing ourselves that we're probably not as well-respected as we would like to imagine.
total shot in the dark here: anybody reading this that isn't a die-hard MU hoops fan? what do you think? perhaps we need a wake-up call.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2008, 09:05:37 PM
Marquette is still looked at, as Billy Packer so succinctly put it, as a MID-MAJOR program.
Packer, like many people, consider any basketball team from a school without a BCS football team a mid-major. That the main reason I'd like to see Memphis win it this year.
haha-- http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080405/NEWS06/80405002
Muncie Star Press: We understand you like basketball. What do you think of the new Indiana University basketball coach, Tom Crean?
Barack Obama: Marquette (Crean's last coaching position) had a terrific team for the last few years. He's a really good coach and I think it was a good coup for Indiana. And he's going to inherit a great core of folks. I'm assuming that Eric Gordon's coming back for one more year.
Star: No
Obama: No?
Star: No. Eric Gordon's going to the NBA.
Obama: Oh well, you guys are going to have to start over. But even with Eric Gordon gone you guys will still have a good core group of underclassmen. And he's a very good coach. Marquette's had a very competitive team for the last few years.
I realize this is a politics-free zone. Maybe Obama could be coach if he doesn't get that other job he's applying for ;). Seems to have regard for MU, he played in HS---unlike Crean. Okay, sorry...thought it was funny and worth a post...please don't get political. Just a joke...