Now we have to see who is not coming back. We are one over the limit so somebody has to be gone. Also there was a post a couple of weeks ago about Crean trying to recruit another bigman. If that is true than two players are gone. Are they James and McNeal? Are they Hazel and Christoherson? Does Fulce stay in junior college another year? Does Culliban leave? Did Mbakee play because he was leaving anyways and there was no reason to save the redshirt year? It will be interesting to see how this evolves. I feel pretty confident that Matthews, Aker, Burke and Hayward will be back.
edited... i don't want to speculate on transfers right now. I think DJ, Wes, & Jerel test the waters to see what they need to improve on to make the next level. That said, I think all three will be back to make a deep run in the tourney. A loss like yesterday has to sting and i'm sure none of them want to go out like that. They still have something to prove and they have unfinished business.
I cringe at the possibility of both James and McNeal leaving. Those two are by far our two most explosive players - offensively and defensively. They're the only ones that can really create off the dribble and get in the lane effectively. Without a true stud down low, and without McNeal and James creating off the dribble, how the heck are we going to score next year? I hope we at least get McNeal back. Losing both would be devastating.
my guess is buzz williams gets a head coaching job somewhere and then we release fulce and/or otule from their letters of intent if neither DJ nor McNeal enter the draft.
I don't think McNeal will leave, I really don't, give him a senior year and a lot of hype going into the NBA draft. James, although I think he should be back (would he even get drafted), is the one in question for me.
The best thing that could happen to James would be to leave his name in the draft and not get drafted. Then I think he coulod come back and actually be a free agent after his senior year. That is what happen with the Kentucky player.
Quote from: LastWarrior on March 23, 2008, 01:48:57 PM
I think DJ, Wes, & Jerel test the waters to see what they need to improve on to make the next level.
I don't think DJ can test the waters again. I was under the impression if he declares himself eligible he can't return.
under rules, DJ can't test the waters again. Once is name goes in,he is finished at MU
Randolph Morris is the player from Kentucky that declared for the NBA draft, had some miserable workouts and wasn't drafted. He returned to play for Kentucky the next season. NBA rules also prohibited him from being allowed into a second draft.
He supposed was a free agent that any NBA could have signed during the Kentucky season. He played the entire season and signed as a free agent with the Knicks when Kentucky dumped Tubby Smith.
Did the NCAA close this option/loophole?
Imagine Dwyane Wade declaring for the NBA draft after his first season, getting bypassed and then exploding like he did his junior season. Let the free agent bidding begin.
Quote from: bilsu on March 23, 2008, 03:15:53 PM
The best thing that could happen to James would be to leave his name in the draft and not get drafted. Then I think he coulod come back and actually be a free agent after his senior year. That is what happen with the Kentucky player.
Uhm, if he does that then he loses his eligibility.
I'll answer my own question.
The NBA allows a player to withdraw from the NBA draft twice but NCAA only allows one withdrawal.
DJ: stays on for his senior year
McNeal: tests the NBA waters (Good for him. He had a great end of the season run.)
Wes: stays on. (He should really test the waters just to get some helpful hints.)
Transfers...I think one will transfer out. Or the Buzz leaving and leading to an exit of a signee is very possible.
My money is on Cubillan & Hazel. The fact that Hazel couldn't get a minute vs two 7 footers tells me he is not in the picture. As for DC, with the surplus of guards only increasing, someone has to be the odd man out.
This will be interesting. If we lose a guard, I definitely want to choose Cubillan. He is a pesky defender at best, and I really think he is overrated. He hasn't shot well in forever. I assume Patrick Hazel is not performing well enough to play along with him being a freshman. I wouldn't be surprised if he transfers to a smaller name school to get more playing time. As for McNeal....I don't see him leaving until he can prove himself even more next year.
Just for some more info, Morris actually played a year and a half more with UK after testing the NBA waters. He had accepted travel money and arrangements from NBA teams interested in him, which resulted in a season-long NCAA suspension. The NCAA reduced the suspension and reinstated him in December 2005, and he ended up playing the rest of 05-06 and all of 06-07 before signing with the Knicks.
As far as a lost player, I don't want to lose anyone, but someone will have to leave or never come to school. I hope that the consequences aren't too bad if Buzz Williams leaves. As far as I know, Erik Williams can still re-open his recruiting if he chooses to. We'll have to put our faith in the coaching staff getting the players to commit to the school as a whole rather than a coach, which they should be doing, though Buzz's track record with Fulce following him around three times raises doubts. We don't want to have Fulce, O'Tule, or Tyshawn Taylor begging to be released from their LOI or sticking around for a short, unhappy time before transferring (since Scout does credit Buzz Williams with recruiting Taylor, though that could be inaccurate/misleading).
With Hazel, it's hard to tell if he's at all in the picture. He practiced all season but got the minutes of a walk-on, and was passed on the depth chart immediately when Mbakwe returned. He's only 6'7" and 220, which means he would almost have to play the 4, probably competing with the likes of Mbakwe and Fulce for some minutes. We do lose three taller players this year, so his chances of cracking the rotation are better. But if he's not going to get any playing time, you would think he would want to go to a smaller school for a chance to play rather than ride the bench for three more years.
I would agree that Cubillan has the best chance of transferring of any of the guards, but I don't really think the chances are too great yet. He's a talented player and good on the ball defender. If freshmen are going to be taking his minutes, which were already reduced by about 3 a game this year, he's gotten enough exposure to have other schools interested and it would make sense for him to want out. But does he mind the decrease in minutes enough to want to sit out a year and then play for someone else? Do we really want to lose a would-be junior with obvious talent, or is the frustration more about him not hitting shots over the last month?
I wouldn't blame McNeal for testing the waters. But if he keeps working hard and can do what he did the last five games over the course of a season, he's in the running for BE Player of the Year and will have a lot more NBA attention. Plus if McNeal has NBA aspirations, Maurice Acker will need to be injected with some Mugsy Bogues or Earl Boykins DNA real soon or next season will be their last chance to play together.
Quote from: chapman on March 23, 2008, 11:50:43 PM
Plus if McNeal has NBA aspirations, Maurice Acker will need to be injected with some Mugsy Bogues or Earl Boykins DNA real soon or next season will be their last chance to play together.
If McNeal has NBA aspirations or not next season will be his last at MU. He will be a senior next year.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 24, 2008, 12:29:08 AM
Quote from: chapman on March 23, 2008, 11:50:43 PM
Plus if McNeal has NBA aspirations, Maurice Acker will need to be injected with some Mugsy Bogues or Earl Boykins DNA real soon or next season will be their last chance to play together.
If McNeal has NBA aspirations or not next season will be his last at MU. He will be a senior next year.
Sentence must have been confusing. I meant next season is McNeal's last chance to play with Acker, which can only help McNeal's chances of staying to have another year with his buddy rather than leaving this year. Chances are not good they end up playing together overseas somewhere, especially with McNeal looking more and more like NBA material, and Acker has no shot of joining McNeal in the NBA.
I have to think it's going to be a guard.... not sure who at this point.
Hazel seemed to be a prime candidate to transfer, but the frontcourt minutes will be there for the taking.
I'm not sure I want to get into this thread, but since nobody mentioned it, the guy that makes the most sense to me to be gone is Christopherson. We just recruited over him with the three wings coming in next year, especially the two big time guards. I don't see where he fits in the future with this team.
I want to make clear that I hope nobody feels pressured to leave and if push comes to shove, I'd prefer that a recruit not come like Saunders last year to losing one of our current players.
But these guys only get four years of college ball, and if I was a player and had a choice of playing 25-30 minutes per game on a full scholarship at Loyola, Ball State, UW-Green Bay or something vs. riding the pine at a bigger school, I think I'd take the playing time.
What I REALLY hope (strictly from basketball perspective) is that whoever the player is that won't be with us next season, that it is not James, McNeal, Matthews, Hayward, Mbakwe, Burke, Taylor, Otule or Williams.
For those of you suggesting Matthews might "test the waters"...what are you smoking? Wesley is a nice college player but is nowhere near NBA material. McNeal might get a look after his senior year, but is not a 1st round prospect, that's for sure. James isn't either.
We seem to be looking at our own players through rose colored glasses here.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 24, 2008, 08:32:21 AM
For those of you suggesting Matthews might "test the waters"...what are you smoking? Wesley is a nice college player but is nowhere near NBA material. McNeal might get a look after his senior year, but is not a 1st round prospect, that's for sure. James isn't either.
Both McNeal and Matthews should declare.
College kids have the right to declare and go through the process. At the very least players learn about the business side of the game, they get access to scouts and coaches who can point out aspects of their game that need work, they can workout against other kids trying to make a living at the game, and the NBA pool of scouts provide a consensus recommendation.
These guys would be foolish not to take advantage of that opportunity (though there are no guarantees they'd get into the pre-draft camps, they can still work out for individual teams and other activities).
Good point NYWarrior,
We all know that neither JM or Wes would get drafted this year but at least they'd get more insight into what the NBA people are looking for in terms of their position as well as future development...
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 24, 2008, 08:32:21 AM
For those of you suggesting Matthews might "test the waters"...what are you smoking? Wesley is a nice college player but is nowhere near NBA material. McNeal might get a look after his senior year, but is not a 1st round prospect, that's for sure. James isn't either.
We seem to be looking at our own players through rose colored glasses here.
I agree wholeheartedly. McNeal is a very good defender because of his activity in the passing lanes, his athleticism, and his long arms. That can translate at the college level because he is simply quicker and more athletic than most of the players that he defends. But at the NBA level? I don't believe the outlook is as good.
He is probably big and athletic enough to defend an NBA 1, but he does not have the offensive skills necessary to be an NBA 1. He can get to the basket at this level, but so could Travis Diener. Even if his shot improves a great deal through the offseason and his senior season, he would still be shut down by just about any NBA 2. McNeal is also not large enough to guard an NBA 2. He is probably as athletic as a good portion of NBA 2 guards, however most 2's are at least 2-4 inches taller, and a good portion are much more athletically gifted. He would have to play the 1 in the NBA, but he has never been a PG through his career.
McNeal may test the waters this offseason, but he will return for his senior season. I also expect James will return for his senior year. Matthews probably doesn't warrant NBA consideration at this point. He has the best NBA body of all of our "big 3", and with a solid senior season would have a shot to be a 2nd rounder.
I'm jumping in late here without having read everything since most seems to be centered around guys declaring for the draft, but I could see many scenarios...
- Hazel not seeing opportunity and leaving.
- Christopherson and Crean collectively agreeing he may not be a Big East player (don't know/think this is the case, but admit it may be possible), getting buried on the bench and deciding it may be best to leave.
- Cubillan seeing himself getting pushed to the margins a nit and deciding he may be better off elsewhere.
- James deciding to go get paid some where.
- Mbakwe deciding to go elsewhere for whatever reason.
- One of the incoming freshmen changing his mind.
All are feasible in my mind, and I'm sure we'll find out relatively soon.
It won't be Trevor. People can knock that one off the list.
Time will tell on the others.
Maybe Cubes based upon his PT reduction and his poor shooting. Since the 2/20/08 game against St. John's (11 game totals), here are his shooting stats:
Total FGs 5 for 31 (16%)
3 Point FGs 4 for 23 (17%)
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2008, 11:30:14 AM
Maybe Cubes based upon his PT reduction and his poor shooting. Since the 2/20/08 game against St. John's (11 game totals), here are his shooting stats:
Total FGs 5 for 31 (16%)
3 Point FGs 4 for 23 (17%)
I see your point, but I don't think an 11 game stretch in the grand scheme of things is going to be a huge factor in the determination of who may leave. Maybe I'm naive, but I honestly believe that Crean really cares about these kids and what is best for them.
I think at any maor D-I hoops program, the guys who aren't getting much PT have to ask themselves if they'd be better off going somewhere where they could play more. Hopefully, Crean has a sit down with each kid at the end of each season and has a frank discussion about where the kid stands, what he needs to work on moving forward to improve his standing, etc.
If someone sees the writing on the wall after one of these discussions and decides to transfer, you just know some people will say that the coach ran the kid off and turn it into a big negative, but what he would really be doing is looking out for both the player's and Marquette's best interests. Which is, of course, his job.
I only used the last 11 games as an example since his PT really went downhill from there, with Acker picking up his time. Not a real good mindset going into the off-season when decisions have to be rendered. Your points are valid.
My speculation would be as others with Hazel and Scott C. transferring elsewhere to actually get playing time. I just hope the situation gets resolved in an expedited manner.
With respect to who stays/goes, what are the important dates/deadlines that we should be aware of?
Do all four recruits been accepted into the university or are grades/ACT scores a concern? That is where I would look first.
I know Hazel is high on everyone's list as he hasn't received any substantial playing time but with Trend, Barro and Fitz gone, playing time is available and frankly I thought he looked good in the limited minutes he played. Just not good enough to get playing minutes.
That leaves a guard most likely to leave if the four recruits are accepted. Dom being the most obvious player leaving due to his family situation. If not Dom than it boils down to Christopherson or Cube. I have seen enough of Cube to think he is staying at MU until he graduates but if Cube were to leave it would not be to another D-1 school but to go back home. Again I just don't see it.
That leaves Christopherson as the second most likely to leave if it is not Dom. Christopherson could be a hell of a player at a mid-major school. I just don't know if he is quick enough to make an impact in the Big East.
With a weak front court, and from the what we have seen of Hazel, I do believe Hazel will be here. I believe all our incoming recruits will come with the exception of maybe Fulce who may follow Buzz Williams. That leaves a guard not coming back. I have no idea how this will play out. It be great if one of the guards get drafted into the NBA. DJ is great off the penetration. I am amazed that the open shots are what challenges him.
It has been stated a number of times that DJ has or will have enough credits to graduate and is ready to start making money even if its overseas (still don't see him making an NBA roster). I think he is THE REASON TC exceeded his scripts in the first place. Hazel is really no worse off than Burke was at the same point in his freshman year.
I've read comments on our blog and elsewhere that people think McNeal is going pro and leaving. I just don't see where folks are getting that from. He's a terrific player and did well down the stretch but he's another guy that needs another year of playing. Maybe I'm in the minority, but some are suggesting done deal sure thing, don't see that at all.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2008, 02:13:21 PM
I've read comments on our blog and elsewhere that people think McNeal is going pro and leaving. I just don't see where folks are getting that from. He's a terrific player and did well down the stretch but he's another guy that needs another year of playing. Maybe I'm in the minority, but some are suggesting done deal sure thing, don't see that at all.
I see where your coming from, but everyone is only thinking about DJ going pro, but in comparison to McNeal, McNeal has a better shot at the NBA right now. One this is for sure, if no guard leaves in the off season Crean is going to have more guards then he can handle (James, McNeal, Matthews, Acker, Cubes, Christopherson, Williams, Taylor) if there were such a thing, we would have too many guards next year
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 24, 2008, 02:13:21 PM
I've read comments on our blog and elsewhere that people think McNeal is going pro and leaving. I just don't see where folks are getting that from. He's a terrific player and did well down the stretch but he's another guy that needs another year of playing. Maybe I'm in the minority, but some are suggesting done deal sure thing, don't see that at all.
Agreed.
Jerel is a fantastic college player, but the NBA doesn't have a lot of openings for 6'2" guards who can't play the point and aren't fantastic long-range shooters.
I suppose it wouldn't hurt him to "test the waters" but I suspect that if he does, he'll find the pool temperature very chilly. He's a guy who, with the expanded rosters, may eventually find himself on an NBA bench. But the chances of him being drafted next year, even in the second round, are pretty slim, IMO. Far slimmer than those of DJ. Jerel may be the better college player, but DJ, for all his faults, can play the point and has the kind of athleticism NBA teams want.
buzz williams is leaving?
are we sure that it is Buzz who is leaving and TC staying?
Quote from: passion of da coach on March 24, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
buzz williams is leaving?
Buzz is rumored for the head job at TCU along with many other names. Rest assured, if he takes the head coaching position at TCU it was because Crean ran him off. ::)
Quote from: passion of da coach on March 24, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
buzz williams is leaving?
Chicos beat me to it, but the answer is "not necessarily". He could end up at TCU, but who knows. Here's the original thread:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=7418.0
Given how his experience in New Orleans went, the odds of Buzz taking another job at a struggling lower level school right away aren't that high. If he waits a couple of years, given how much good press he's getting and how much the players like him, he'll be able to get a much better job.
First off, yes we are one scholarship over the limit, but that may be becasue they are not sure if all players will qualify next year. Second and of the so called 4 star recruits there is no chance that they leave. I think nexts years team has a potential to be Crean's best team ever. And to be a preseason Big east favorite.
Quote from: Toughmover1016 on March 24, 2008, 03:33:44 PM
First off, yes we are one scholarship over the limit, but that may be becasue they are not sure if all players will qualify next year. Second and of the so called 4 star recruits there is no chance that they leave. I think nexts years team has a potential to be Crean's best team ever. And to be a preseason Big east favorite.
"4 star recruits"? according to rivals we have 2-3's and 2-2's.
Quote from: augoman on March 25, 2008, 04:09:16 PM
Quote from: Toughmover1016 on March 24, 2008, 03:33:44 PM
First off, yes we are one scholarship over the limit, but that may be becasue they are not sure if all players will qualify next year. Second and of the so called 4 star recruits there is no chance that they leave. I think nexts years team has a potential to be Crean's best team ever. And to be a preseason Big east favorite.
"4 star recruits"? according to rivals we have 2-3's and 2-2's.
Take it with a grain of salt. Rivals doesn't even list Tyshawn Taylor as being offered by North Carolina and yet Williams did offer him the final week when they lost out on Shumpert.
All four guys were ranked 3 stars by Scout some time ago, this is before Nick Williams was honored as Alabama's 6A player of the year last week. Taylor's team won the state title, Fulce is leading the league (Junior college) at 11.8 rebounds per game, and Otule is coming off an injury so not a ton of news there.
Quote from: augoman on March 25, 2008, 04:09:16 PM
Quote from: Toughmover1016 on March 24, 2008, 03:33:44 PM
First off, yes we are one scholarship over the limit, but that may be becasue they are not sure if all players will qualify next year. Second and of the so called 4 star recruits there is no chance that they leave. I think nexts years team has a potential to be Crean's best team ever. And to be a preseason Big east favorite.
"4 star recruits"? according to rivals we have 2-3's and 2-2's.
5 other services list Taylor in their top 100(HoopScoop, HoopMasters, ESPN, USA Today, and Rise Magazine), 3 other services list Williams(ESPN, HoopScoop and Rise).
Everyone separates their JUCO rankings from the regular ranking, but the one place they are put together is in HoopScoop's composite class ranking where they combine all HS, Prep School and JUCO players for a given year. They had Joe Fulce as a 4 Star recruit which for them is a player between 80-100(no specific number is given).
The recruiting class is #20 in the country according to HoopMasters/CSTV. HoopScoop has it as #24.
Rivals is the one that seems to be missing the boat.
I hope they all come...