for this loss or is MU's talent not ready for primetime and Crean continues to be outcoached?
Um .. I can't say the refs were that awful .. lots of travelling calls that had to be measured with milimeter rulers .. but that went both ways.
Bottom line .. our offense is one-dimensional, and we can't shoot worth crap. No surprises there. Every quality team we play (and there are a lot of them) will give MU fits. Gonna be a long season.
Besides not being able to shoot, yeah Higgins did blow it...partially. He changed the momentum of the game in the second have, called 5 straight fouls and a couple phantom calls against mu. So while it wasn't really his fault, he didn't add to anything, I don't get how he can justify some of the calls/non calls he makes.
I'll blame him. First half was rediculously in favor of Badgers. MU never got into a flow. They didnt even show up for the game today. Plus, this defense we pride ourselves on, didnt see it today!
how was crean outcoached? The team was outhustled, outplayed, and shot like crap. To say we're outcoached is just idiotic. Get an effing clue. Your schtick is old.
I'll go 50% poor poor shooting, and 50% poor poor calls.
Not having an answer for Tucker is being outcoached.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 09, 2006, 04:11:16 PM
Not having an answer for Tucker is being outcoached.
Is shooting like crap a result of bad coaching? Are turnovers at bad times a result of bad coaching? Tucker played well, made plenty of shots with hands in his face...also some wide open driving the lane. But when was Crean guarding him? I don't remember seeing that.
I dont' think having an All-American have a great day is being outcoached. Tucker is a talented player that will score a lot against a lot of teams. That's not coaching, that's a great player playing great. Crean didn't lose this game. Wisconsin won it. They converted on 4 straight possessions under 5 minutes to go. MU desparately needed a stop and just couldn't get one. IIRC, Tucker only got 1 of those baskets, maybe 2. It comes down to executing, MU didn't, UW did.
Only problem I had with Crean today was ...how about giving someone else a shot on guarding Tucker. personally i would have had Fitz on him. Now I know fitz had foul trouble but maybe just one posession? When someone is getting lit up maybe just try someone else it might work or it might help the guy that is getting lit up get his head back up. Higgings is a bad ref however i did not think he was terrible today. the call on barro was very bad not only was MU on a run but it was his 4th foul very early. UW inbounded and hit a 3 to go back up 7 after MU had the ball only down 4. Some of that goes on Crean why let Barro get 3 in the first when that is a thin area for the team? That was one of the two biggest plays of the game because I think MU was on a roll and possibly could have taken the lead. The other biggest play of the game Mu on a big roll cuts the lead to 4 and on a 4 on 1 break McTurnover throws the alley oop pass into the 4th row. A bounce pass for a layup makes it a two point game and blows the roof off just the same. terrible decision making by that kid game after game.
I don't know how anyone could honestly say the story of the game wasn't MU not being able to stop Tucker and absolutely horrible, frustrating, agonizing, painful shooting by MU.
Even though I really wanted to see someone pull a Bobby Knight and slam the bottom of Tucker's chin to keep that freaking tongue in his mouth, I realized I have not allowed myself to admit how good of a player he is. Plus the Landry kid outshown Matthews today, like Matthews did to him in the HS Championship game 2 years ago. But other than those 2 I was not impressed with the "incredibly deep bench" I have been hearing about for the last week. Just because you have a lot of average players that play the same number of minutes, doesn't mean you have a deep bench to me. It means you don't have a superstar for next year!
A couple of bad calls against MU but nothing serious. The main problem with the refs was that they felt like they had to call everything no matter how ticky-tac and disrupt the flow of the game. That was definitely to the Badgers advantage.
The Barro call was bogus. ANd there was a stretch half way through the second half were we were called for a push-off and than immediately down the court UW-Madison was not but other than that I can't complain about the actual fouls called other than they called the game way too tight.
Quote from: MUEng92 on December 09, 2006, 04:38:20 PM
But other than those 2 I was not impressed with the "incredibly deep bench" I have been hearing about for the last week. Just because you have a lot of average players that play the same number of minutes, doesn't mean you have a deep bench to me. It means you don't have a superstar for next year!
I assume you're talking about UW's bench.. well based on just this game alone you could say the same about MU's bench.
I wouln't say outcoached but this is the second game I've been too this year and the second time I've seen crean call a timeout mid-3 point shot, only to have the ball go in and not count.
I think Crean was probably out coached in this game. We needed to speed this game up by applying full court pressure. Even if the rodents had layups off of it, it still would have forced them to go smaller and play a more up tempo game that favors us.
This was a complete team loss. I don't care what the score was, MU sustained a comprehensive beating. I thought Crean had his head handed to him just as much as the players did. MU didn't have an answer for anything UW was doing. Mu allowed UW to come in here and play their game pretty much from the opening tip. When that happens you've been out coached, and out played. There's just no getting around it.
quite honestly.. I don't care about who's fault it was because it was completely MU's fault as a team.. you cannot blame external sources like the refs or the UW fans, etc. We HAVE to be able to play through these. This is all warm up for the NCAA tourney.. when we get there we will not have the luxury of expecting any of these things to be in our favor. The successful team will thrive regardless.
I am more interested in what we need to do to become that successful team. This game simply reiterated to me that we have a fair distance to go.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 09, 2006, 03:34:03 PM
for this loss or is MU's talent not ready for primetime and Crean continues to be outcoached?
I guess Coach K forgot to outcoach him...so did Knight...etc.
Quote from: spiral97 on December 09, 2006, 05:29:40 PM
I am more interested in what we need to do to become that successful team. This game simply reiterated to me that we have a fair distance to go.
This game exposed a whole lotta warts - some of which I'm not sure are correctable (3-pt shooting), but some that are. I am very concerned about what I at least perceive as a lack of intensity for 40 minutes. DJ is the guy that needs to set the tone in that area more often than not, and for the past couple of weeks, he has fallen down badly in that regard - especially early in the game. The good news is, that is something that can be fixed as soon as the next game. He is not the only one, but he more than anyone else has to set the tone.
No need to blame Higgins, and there is some blame on Crean. But the boys didn't execute.
The only thing I put on Crean is the handling of Tucker. Wisconsin was running picks without fail. Putting a freshman (Lazar) on Tucker was a mistake. Keeping a big man like Ooze on him would only run the risk of foul trouble, which it did. I did not like the adjustments (if any) Crean made to stem Tucker (and others) low post scoring. BUT...we knew that our frontcourt was definitely inferior. BTW, what surprised me was the play of Landry.
Ultimately, it came down to execution. Shots missed, FTs clanked, no blocking out, missed defensive coverage...MU should count themselves lucky to hang on as close as they did.
One final note: McNeal's limited play really hurt us tonight. He caught fire - albeit late - and almost singlehandedly brought MU back. But the horrid freethrow and lowpost D, as well as the hotter shooting night (50%) by Wisconsin really did us in.
Quote from: maxpower773 on December 09, 2006, 04:19:34 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 09, 2006, 04:11:16 PM
Not having an answer for Tucker is being outcoached.
Is shooting like crap a result of bad coaching? Are turnovers at bad times a result of bad coaching? Tucker played well, made plenty of shots with hands in his face...also some wide open driving the lane. But when was Crean guarding him? I don't remember seeing that.
Damn right, it's being outcoached when your team can't convert 4 on 1 fast breaks because they have to hot dog and try lob passes when simple layups will score points. Crean was taught a lesson by Bo today. And this is going to be a long, long season.
And not getting McNeal under control is another fault of Crean. This was a disgusting, disgusting game.
Quote from: spiral97 on December 09, 2006, 05:29:40 PM
quite honestly.. I don't care about who's fault it was because it was completely MU's fault as a team.. you cannot blame external sources like the refs or the UW fans, etc. We HAVE to be able to play through these. This is all warm up for the NCAA tourney.. when we get there we will not have the luxury of expecting any of these things to be in our favor. The successful team will thrive regardless.
I am more interested in what we need to do to become that successful team. This game simply reiterated to me that we have a fair distance to go.
This game wasn't a warm-up for anything. This was huge for fan morale (there was a lot of grumbling in the stands during and after the game, btw). MU (and Crean) were completely exposed for the pretenders they are.
Wow. This is not going to be a long season but if you jump off the building over every loss we have this year than those 6 to 8 splats are really going to hurt.
Half the fans around me were off their feet when that pass went up. The BC would have exploded if they had converted. Yes it was a bad pass but I didn't see TC making that pass and that play has worked a lot of times.
I could do without McNeals turnovers but if you take away his aggression, you take away his game completely and he does way more good than bad.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 09, 2006, 05:59:07 PM
Wow. This is not going to be a long season but if you jump off the building over every loss we have this year than those 6 to 8 splats are really going to hurt.
Half the fans around me were off their feet when that pass went up. The BC would have exploded if they had converted. Yes it was a bad pass but I didn't see TC making that pass and that play has worked a lot of times.
I could do without McNeals turnovers but if you take away his aggression, you take away his game completely and he does way more good than bad.
I also taped the game and ESPN's announcers (especially Bilas, I think) really ripped MU for that play. In fact, they were pretty critical of MU's overall effort throughout the game.
Quote from: tomahawkchop on December 09, 2006, 05:56:43 PM
This game wasn't a warm-up for anything. This was huge for fan morale (there was a lot of grumbling in the stands during and after the game, btw). MU (and Crean) were completely exposed for the pretenders they are.
that's where many fans are shortsighted.. in the end if we make the final four or even sweet sixteen what will this team be remembered for? If we don't, what will the team be remembered for? Exactly what we accomplished or did not accomplish in the ncaa tourney.. do most people care that our 2002/3 team lost to UAB in the first round of the conf usa tourney in Louisville? I was there and I certainly don't.. not when the final result of the season was a final four berth. We also lost at Dayton and at East Carolina in two games in a row earlier that season.. is that the first, second, or even tenth thing that comes to mind when reminescing about that season? I think not.
Yes, there is a lot of sense in focusing game to game.. but there's also a lot of sense in keeping the end goal in sight. Very few people would say the end goal is anything less than an NCAA tourney berth. So we lost.. I'm not happy about it.. but that which does not kill us makes us stronger.. let's talk about what to do differently next game and what to improve.. not wallow in who to blame or ostracize for this game - especially if the target of blame is not even something we could have controlled.