From JMac's blog on Bo's "500" win mark:
"One of my favorite things to spot in media guides is the way schools twist and contort numbers to make them look as favorable as possible and UW-Madison is certainly no exception. The Badgers are currently touting Coach Bo Ryan's .767 winning percentage as the highest amongst Division 1 Head Coaches....who are currently coaching......who have won a minimum of 500 games.....at any level.
This may or may not be true. As it happens, Roy Williams currently has a winning percentage of .797. Although his coaching record currently stands at 499-125, Coach Williams (and North Carolina) only counts wins as a Division 1 head coach in his career totals. That leaves out the five years he spent coaching boys basketball at Charles D. Owen High School, in Swannanoa, NC, which could easily add the victories needed to get over the 500 hump, provided the winning percentage didn't suffer.
One might question the legitimacy of throwing high school records into the mix, but the specific criteria listed by UW stated "at any level." If we exclude the high schools, why not exclude all non-Division 1 games or include non-Division 1 coaches? Well, the quick answer is because Coach Ryan's all-time record would quickly shrink to 150-77, which happens to be identical to Coach Tom Crean's record. Crazy coincidence, huh?"
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/includes/news_items/news_items_more.php?section_id=20&id=964
Ring a ding ding. I need to read JMac's blog more often!
he does a good job over there.......glad he called out the weasels on this
Talk about splitting hairs. I think all sports suffer from meaningless statistic overload. Does anyone really care about this?? Bottom line is that Bo's record at UW is pretty solid.
Quote from: MilTown on December 08, 2006, 08:49:18 AM
Talk about splitting hairs.
You think that mentioning that including high school coaching win in a record that says you have the highest winning percentage of all active D-1 Head Coaches is splitting hairs???
I'm not saying that Bo isn't a good coach, his win record is the same as Creans' so he must be pretty good. But I'd bet that there are high school coaches in WI that have a better winning percentage and more games than Bo. If one of them got a job at a low major D-1 college would anyone really claim that they had the best winning percentage of any D-1 coach? I don't think so.
I don't think it's wrong, as long as it's disclosed. It's just crafty wording and manipulating stats to make your program and coach look impressive. If you read the blog JMac states that UNC does the same thing with Roy Williams record. It's standard operating procedure. But in the end, does anyone really care?? Records make for good filler on sportscenter and broadcasts, but most people could care less about records. It's all about what is going on now.
human nature to put out the good press and take things in their best possible light, especially with stuff like this.
Bo has solid teams- no doubt.
he still looks the most like his own team mascots out of all the college coaches/teams I can think of...
Much ado about nothing, IMHO. Bo has a very solid record at the DIII, low DI ;), and DI level. It is a Media Guide. Used to show the best light - for the Media and recruits.
Remember, UW is the place that photo shopped an individual at a football game to demonstrate diversity. ;)
Unless I'm missing something (which is always possible), there are some reading comprehension issues in this thread. Based upon JMac's blog, I didn't think he was suggesting that Ryan was including games he won as a HS coach. After looking at Bo's bio, I don't think that he is. He's including his collegiate career only -- but all levels. Also, JMac did not say that North Carolina includes HS wins -- he said exactly the opposite.
I think we need a lawyer to figure out these statistics.
It seems that the UW statistic is as follows:
1) Active D1
2) 500 Wins
3) 500 win total is comprised of wins at ALL levels
ALL levels seems way too ambiguous to me. Does this mean, HS, grade school, intramural teams, and Double Drible (old school nintendo for you youngsters). Mac is saying that Roy Williams probably has the higher percentage, but in the UNC media guide, they only list his wins in the collegiate ranks. If they included his high school stats, he would blow BO out of the water.
All right, I have spent way too much time on this meaninless stat! Time to focus on the most important stat, starting a new streak of supremacy over UW. Lets go warriors!
Quote from: MilTown on December 08, 2006, 11:04:26 AM
All right, I have spent way too much time on this meaninless stat!
Especially since 34.8% of stats are just made up. :-\
Quote from: WashDCWarrior on December 08, 2006, 11:12:27 AM
Especially since 34.8% of stats are just made up. :-\
You self-proclaimed message board statistics gurus always crack me up -- everyone knows that the actual figure is 72.18%.
60% of the time, it works everytime. ;)
That's not 1/2 bad. :)
"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that."
---Homer Simpson
and the google search also turned up this link from which I pulled the quote. let the time-wasting commence.
http://www.funny2.com/homer.htm (http://www.funny2.com/homer.htm)
geez.. just goes to prove that there are three types of people in this world... those who can count and those who can't.
At the end of the day, it's interesting to see both of these guys with identical 150-77 DIVISION I records.
Crean took over a losing team while Bo took over a team 1 year removed from the Final Four and with some great talent already there for him to take over.
Both are fine coaches...one is eligible for AARP and the other just hit 40 years old.
One has been to the Division I Final Four, one has not.
One has beaten teams with higher seeds in the NCAA tournament, one has not.
One looks like his mascot, the other has a bronze complection.
Hopefully one continues his winless streak against Marquette in the Bradley Center.
one has produced 3 nba players including one that was the MVP of the nba playoff finals and sportsman of the year...
out of sincere curiousity, what is UW's track record in putting players into the NBA?
Devin Harris and Michael Finley. That's about it for the past 15-20 years. Paul Grant was drafted and Kirk Penney has hooked up on a couple of 10 day contracts in the past couple of seasons.
I think you are giving way too much credit to Crean for "producing" NBA players. DWade would be in the NBA even if he went to MSOE.
Off the top of my head, I can think of Devin Harris from UW. He is former Big Ten player of the year. What about Michael Finley?? I know there are others, but those stand out. After this year they will have one more.
Quote from: MilTown on December 08, 2006, 01:07:26 PM
I think you are giving way too much credit to Crean for "producing" NBA players. DWade would be in the NBA even if he went to MSOE.
Off the top of my head, I can think of Devin Harris from UW. He is former Big Ten player of the year. What about Michael Finley?? I know there are others, but those stand out.
Yes, likely he would be in the NBA. However, the progress of Wade from his year he sat out to his first year to his second year was phenomenal. That put him in the position to be drafted and the rest is history.
I think many people will differ with you. NCAA teams didn't want him, TC did. If Wade ended up at Illinois State, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been the 5th pick in the draft and he wouldn't have been the NBA Finals MVP.
Its all speculation. I just think that in the end, talent rises to the top, no matter where you play.
going to UW-Platteville, where Bo coached, and ran the town (for good reason), during the 90's he won like 96% of his games at Platteville, some really ridiculous amount, hell of a coach, had some great players that went on to do better things (Rob Jeter), as well as others
That's why you want a coach who can recognize talent where others don't.