But hey, they play a great schedule. ;)
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/837546,mariotti031208.article
Uhhhhhhhh, didn't need to click on it, when I saw Mariotti.
Much better article in the Trib. today(I'm guessing) focusing on DePaul's future (Koshwal and Tucker).
Yeah, I don't tend to like Mariotti either, but his comments ring home in my opinion. DePaul won't sink in the resources and they have squandered a generation of support. The one thing they have going for them is Chicago, but is Wainwright the guy? They're in a tough spot.
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
sort of......the difference is
investment so MU can get and keep a guy like Crean. DePaul's administration simply refuses to prioritize the athletic program. Thankfully, prioritizing hoops is a fundamental aspect of Fr. Wild's strategic plan for MU.
DePaul needs to ante up
All true.
Winning is a choice, regardless of sport.
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
I hate to give one guy all of the credit... but I don't know if you are far off.
A lot of things started to go "right" when Crean arrived. Lot's of factors in the programs success... but Crean is probably the biggest.
That's why I don't understand all of the hatred from some people... but that's a whole different story.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on March 11, 2008, 11:08:08 PM
Winning is a choice, regardless of sport.
Certainly a big component, but doesn't always equate to winning on the field. USC football during the 1980's and 90's is exhibit A.
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
I hate to give one guy all of the credit... but I don't know if you are far off.
A lot of things started to go "right" when Crean arrived. Lot's of factors in the programs success... but Crean is probably the biggest.
That's why I don't understand all of the hatred from some people... but that's a whole different story.
the difference is definitely money. after Deane, decision was made to resurrect the program- pay a coach; give him whatever he needs to be successful (practice facility, huge salary, job for father-in-law, etc.), to recruit and to stay. The coach happens to be Crean. Now we should appreciate that he was in the right place at the right time.
DePaul is a mid major playing in a major conference. It's as simple as that.
Quote from: augoman on March 12, 2008, 12:23:32 AM
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
I hate to give one guy all of the credit... but I don't know if you are far off.
A lot of things started to go "right" when Crean arrived. Lot's of factors in the programs success... but Crean is probably the biggest.
That's why I don't understand all of the hatred from some people... but that's a whole different story.
the difference is definitely money. after Deane, decision was made to resurrect the program- pay a coach; give him whatever he needs to be successful (practice facility, huge salary, job for father-in-law, etc.), to recruit and to stay. The coach happens to be Crean. Now we should appreciate that he was in the right place at the right time.
augoman has it right. If MU doesn't make the commitment, we all know Tom Crean would be long gone by now. DePaul chose not to take this course with Dave Leito for instance - didn't have to be him, but could have done it with someone else as well. They didn't. I like Wainright, but I don't think they have any choice but to make a move. Question is, will they continue to half-ass it?
Its interesting that Mariotti blames much of DePaul's current woes on the move to Big East. IMO, that is not a factor as I don't see how DePaul is any more relevant by being in Conference USA and no longer affiliated with long-time rivals such as MU and ND.
One of the biggest factors in DePaul's demise was Pat Kennedy. That guy was a con artist who brought in some big names but also some thugs. The team grossly underacheived under him and was in absolute ruins when he left. They were fortunate that Leitou came in and helped to rebuild it, but I don't think Leitou saw DePaul as anything more than a stepping stone. When he left, they hired Wainwright in hopes he could bring some stability to the program. I don't see how firing him now achieves that, particularly since he seems to be bringing in some pretty good recruits.
Quote from: augoman on March 12, 2008, 12:23:32 AM
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
I hate to give one guy all of the credit... but I don't know if you are far off.
A lot of things started to go "right" when Crean arrived. Lot's of factors in the programs success... but Crean is probably the biggest.
That's why I don't understand all of the hatred from some people... but that's a whole different story.
the difference is definitely money. after Deane, decision was made to resurrect the program- pay a coach; give him whatever he needs to be successful (practice facility, huge salary, job for father-in-law, etc.), to recruit and to stay. The coach happens to be Crean. Now we should appreciate that he was in the right place at the right time.
I completely agree... and I'll also add that Crean's work ethic, enthusiasm and early success helped sell MU on spending more to make more.
I also agree that Lieto was a good coach and if DePaul would have made the jump like MU did back in '03 (when MU resigned Crean to a big contract), they would be in better shape now.
Wainwright seems like he can coach... but I think we know that there is a lot more to the job than just coaching... especially at the smaller private schools that don't have football. The coach has to be a little bit of everything to everyone.
Wainwright is a better recruiter than Crean. I don't know about the coaching aspect.
The difference is money and some other smaller things that could get people excited.
Here's one thing I was thinking about the other day, while listening to a DePaul game on radio....
Some people were up in arms when George Thompson "retired" from the radio booth (I thought it was overdue), but McIlvaine has brought youthful enthusiasm to the broadcasts. DePaul's got a painfully hoarse Dave Corzine doing the broadcasts. Can't they get somebody else?
The Allstate Arena situation is awful, but can they do something about the atmosphere? Start with getting rid of that tired PA announcer.
I know those are small things, but those can make a difference. Part of the problem is many of DePaul's "big" names were either from out of state or no longer are affiliated with the program. Get those guys involved...the Blackhawks are proving that's a big selling point with fans and Crean has understood this for years.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 12, 2008, 09:46:14 AM
The difference is money and some other smaller things that could get people excited.
Here's one thing I was thinking about the other day, while listening to a DePaul game on radio....
Some people were up in arms when George Thompson "retired" from the radio booth (I thought it was overdue), but McIlvaine has brought youthful enthusiasm to the broadcasts. DePaul's got a painfully hoarse Dave Corzine doing the broadcasts. Can't they get somebody else?
The Allstate Arena situation is awful, but can they do something about the atmosphere? Start with getting rid of that tired PA announcer.
I know those are small things, but those can make a difference. Part of the problem is many of DePaul's "big" names were either from out of state or no longer are affiliated with the program. Get those guys involved...the Blackhawks are proving that's a big selling point with fans and Crean has understood this for years.
Agreed. Everything about DePaul is amateurish. I can't critique what Corzine says b/c I can't hear/understand anything he says and that's been going on for years. And the Allstate is a decent place when its filled to capacity (like it was one game in 1995), but otherwise its a dank, dark place that lacks any character. Small things add up - since DePaul doesn't address any of things that are bringing the program down, its hard not to think of the program as one that no one seems to care about. Its hard to believe they can get any coveted recruits to go there.
Quote from: augoman on March 12, 2008, 12:23:32 AM
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
The difference between DePaul and Marquette is Tom Crean. He is not perfect, but do not underestimate the value he is to Marquette.
I hate to give one guy all of the credit... but I don't know if you are far off.
A lot of things started to go "right" when Crean arrived. Lot's of factors in the programs success... but Crean is probably the biggest.
That's why I don't understand all of the hatred from some people... but that's a whole different story.
the difference is definitely money. after Deane, decision was made to resurrect the program- pay a coach; give him whatever he needs to be successful (practice facility, huge salary, job for father-in-law, etc.), to recruit and to stay. The coach happens to be Crean. Now we should appreciate that he was in the right place at the right time.
The difference is money but the practice facility, huge salary, job for father-in-law, etc. didn't really come until we had huge success with going to the Final Four. Once we made the Final Four, donations came pouring in, the facility was built in short order and administration ponied up the money to keep Crean. I have a feeling that if DePaul had a Final Four run they would get some big donations and instant support as well. Leito was there ticket to that road but he left as soon as he could. I think Wainright's recruiting is pretty good actually as Koshwal and Tucker are going to be really good over the next 3 years.
I hear the Summit League is looking for someone to challenge Oral Roberts and IUPUI next year.
----
A lot of posters on this board may diasagree with Crean as a coach, but he is a great program builder who does all those little things away from the court that help make the team as successful as it is. From donations to practice facilities and student involvement Crean has been hugely successful in building interest in Marquette. Ultimately Depaul needs someone like that to involve the whole community, and obviously winning would help.
DePaul has been supportive of the women's team and Doug Bruno, but I think winning has everything to do with that.
DePaul has huge problems, a turn around will not be easy.
Nobody in Chicago cares anymore about DePaul. They receive little local media coverage and the casual sports fan has no interest in the program. I'm amazed at the lack of coverage that DePaul receives, considering they play in a BCS conference.
Also, I disagree with this notion that Jerry Wainwright is a good recruiter. Yes, he has Tucker and Koshwal, but that's it. Please, take a look at the rest of the DePaul roster. What players would you want on MU???
MU has a better 2008 class coming in than DePaul. In addition, Jerry still has 3 open scholarships for the 2008 class.
The biggest problem I see with Wainwright's recruiting is that he hasn't recruited Chicago. DePaul has the built in benefit of being located in the talent rich Chicago area, but so far he has not used this to his advantage.
The Big East and Marquette need the Chicago market even if DePaul is a weak program.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 12, 2008, 09:46:14 AM
I know those are small things, but those can make a difference. Part of the problem is many of DePaul's "big" names were either from out of state or no longer are affiliated with the program. Get those guys involved...the Blackhawks are proving that's a big selling point with fans and Crean has understood this for years.
Agreed on the Blackhawks. I watched my first blackhawks game in probably 10-15 years this past weekend. Good to see the Wirtz kid revitalizing that team after the old man ran it into the ground.
On a side note, isn't the National Anthem at Hawks games, where everyone cheers throughout the whole song, one of the coolest things in sports? I'd love to see that get started at MU games.
Being somewhat close with a few people high up at DePaul, I find this thread to be interesting and pretty dead on.
It pains me to say it, as I know him, and he's a good guy, but the reason DePaul is being held back in large part is because of Jim Doyle and the administration. Even though he's not the school president, he has most of the power over at DePaul. Those who remember and in the know will recall that it was actually his decision to can Joey in the late 90's. Not that the Joey Meyer era was advancing at that point, but Doyle knew it was time for a change and gave the seal of approval on the Pat Kennedy hire.
Doyle's a smart guy, and realized that for the university to truly grow, he had to help make a tough choice...focus on the campus and building up DePaul's reputation and facilities, or put his influence on building back up the basketball program. He went for the former, and figured by rolling the dice on Kennedy, he might be able to do both. The Kennedy hire didn't work out (there were a lot of shady things going on that didn't come to light), and Doyle gave Ponsetto complete control shortly thereafter, and stepped away from the athletic spotlight for the most part.
If you've been to it lately, DePaul's campus is outstanding. The Ray Meyer facility is great and a top notch practice facility. DePaul has really transformed itself from a commuter type school to a very nice campus with mostly new buildings everywhere. From a basketball standpoint, their United Center lease from a few years ago was losing money, so they are married to Allstate Arena. If you're a student at DePaul, it sucks to get out there. As far as an onsite facility, that will most likely never, ever happen. There is no land that DePaul owns to make this happen. Even if land became available, the cost to build that facility in Lincoln Park would be astronomical.
Sorry for the longwindness, but thought I would share my two cents.
Quote from: TheManInGold on March 12, 2008, 10:12:15 AM
I hear the Summit League is looking for someone to challenge Oral Roberts and IUPUI next year.
----
A lot of posters on this board may diasagree with Crean as a coach, but he is a great program builder who does all those little things away from the court that help make the team as successful as it is. From donations to practice facilities and student involvement Crean has been hugely successful in building interest in Marquette. Ultimately Depaul needs someone like that to involve the whole community, and obviously winning would help.
Actually, KO told me when he came to Northwestern from Tenn. that he had been trying to get MU to do something re practice facility the entire time he was there. He did get the lockerroom painted, but not much more. He told me it was 'very tough' to recruit on a visit when they saw the old gym. The bug was in the admin's ear for many years- the big donors (who truly run our program) finally got around to it, after bumping budget to include flying charter to games, huge coaches salaries, and so on.
United Center lease? They've played like 5 games there ever including one on a Super Bowl Sunday vs. MU.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 12, 2008, 01:13:14 PM
United Center lease? They've played like 5 games there ever including one on a Super Bowl Sunday vs. MU.
Actually, 15 according to DePaul's web site. But none since 2002
Back in the day, DePaul had an agreement with Wirtz and Reinsdorf to lease/rent out the United Center for afternoon weekend games, assuming nothing else was scheduled or would conflict with the Bulls/Hawks/Circus/Concert/Ice Show...you get the idea. Problem was they never made money on any of them, as the cost to rent was far more than what they were bringing in.
Currently, DePaul doesn't even have that options lease agreement any more, they gave it up after 2002.
I recall the MU at DePaul game at the UC had about 600 fans. It was snowing like crazy and, as I said, the Super Bowl was later that day.
January 28, 1995. I had made arrangements to travel in from Aurora with several of my neighbors to meet up with my old MU roomate in a suite that he had gotten. We went and spent the game in the suite and my old roomie never showed up, assumed it had to do with the snow storm. We ate and drank and had a great time.
Talked to my old roomate several days later and he asked my why WE never showed up. Turns out we were in the wrong suite!
Can DePaul play at the UIC pavillion? Outside of their pride at playing at another school's facility, it seems like an ideal choice. It's convenient to both students (via CTA) and commuters (lots of parking, close to the trains), walkable to Greektown for before/after games, and although it's on the small size, it about the right size for their fan base.
Unless the Big East has a rule against playing in another schools facility--or UIC won't let it happen--it's probably their best choice in Chicago.
Quote from: sigep80 on March 12, 2008, 02:58:14 PM
January 28, 1995. I had made arrangements to travel in from Aurora with several of my neighbors to meet up with my old MU roomate in a suite that he had gotten. We went and spent the game in the suite and my old roomie never showed up, assumed it had to do with the snow storm. We ate and drank and had a great time.
Talked to my old roomate several days later and he asked my why WE never showed up. Turns out we were in the wrong suite!
Ah, the days before cell phones ;)
Quote from: sigep80 on March 12, 2008, 02:58:14 PM
January 28, 1995. I had made arrangements to travel in from Aurora with several of my neighbors to meet up with my old MU roomate in a suite that he had gotten. We went and spent the game in the suite and my old roomie never showed up, assumed it had to do with the snow storm. We ate and drank and had a great time.
Talked to my old roomate several days later and he asked my why WE never showed up. Turns out we were in the wrong suite!
That's funny...I had a skybox too and was sitting there by myself for most of the first half until I started yelling down at folks I recognized to come up. I think because it was DePaul no one was checking suite tickets once you got in the door. I think we played like crap IIRC.
DePaul could play at NU or Loyola too, but most of their fan base is in the NW burbs. The only sell out (or near) they usually get is for MU on a weekend. I think Rosemont gives them a pretty good deal. It is near all the highways, the airport, hotels and there is a CTA train stop nearby. It isn't the arena as they used to be the hottest ticket in town. They lost the fans when the admin treated Ray and Joey like crap. Let's just say they stuck with Bradshaw for way too long.
Wainwright knows Chicago and is a great game coach when he has talent. Lately, most of Chicago's talent is leaving although he got Mac (Joey did not have a good rapport with CPL coaches). Maybe some of the prep scouting guys here can comment. ,He has a good freshman class and another one coming, I believe. Wainwright was hired late, like May 1 too which set him back on recruiting his first year due to the late UVA hire. If Marioti says he'll flop, I would go the other way.