The one that gets in my craw more than anything is the blind love that your average Wisconsonite especially those in the Milwaukee area have for the the Badgers.
I have a few questions
1. How long has this been around for (Is this a recent phenomenon since Alvarez got there)
2. Why do people think they relate so much to the Badgers
3. Why do people outright hate Marquette (Is it the amount of students from Illinois, is it because it is private?)
4. What steps can the Marquette PR department take to get more of the fringe fans to watch MU over the Badgers
5. Do people in this neck of the woods still believe the Big 10 is better than the SEC in football and better than the Big East in B-ball?
I made the mistake of going over to Badgermaniac today and it makes me very upset that Marquette is seen by the people in this state as both a lesser academic and athletic institution in this State. I feel like I have no defense against these claims and I need som Ammunition (although living in Kenosha is nice because it is definetly a pro-sports town)
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
I can't answer all your questions, but I did grow up in Wisconsin. The best reason I can give that so many people are strictly UW fans is that throughout Wisconsin, UW gets almost all of their football and basketball games broadcast throughout the state...until recently with the BTN. So I think this constant exposure coupled with the simple fact that it is the state's university with the state's name on it is what has lead to the state being so dominantly UW fans.
The other reason I think MU may be looked down upon is because it's private and viewed as rich and stuck up, which is completely bogus. Going to a private high school I've heard hundreds of times that kids from the public high school hate us because of the stereotype that we're all rich snobs.
I do know that most people from Wisconsin don't necessarily dislike Marquette, it's more that they just don't have any connection to Marquette since it is private. As for a solution to this problem, I don't know that there is much that PR can do other than to continue to promote the team as well as they do and for the team to go out and continue its success.
I can't say that people actually believe that the big televen is better than the SEC in football or the Big East in basketball. I think they just enjoy their style of play and enjoy the false hope they get from beating such inferior competition, which results in their teams getting high rankings.
I think it comes down to numerous issues that obviously vary from person to person.
The big one though:
They are 4-5 x our size. Combine that with the fact that they have more in-state students than we do. The result: The average Wisconsinite has more family, friends, etc. that go to Madison or have gone there.
Also:
1. They have football. We don't. If you become a Badger football fan, it's not too hard to transfer it to BB (well it should be. Watch them play. Ugh. But that's a different story.)
2. Because we are private and pricey, some see us as elitist. (Some)
As far as what MU PR can do, I would keep doing what they're doing. Push the alum accomplishments. Push the service done by MU students. For instance, we recently got some distinction for that. How many people know about that? I think that angle could help with the elitist image. That's general rather than athletic-specific, but I feel it's a necessary step.
I don't know how Badger fans view the B11 vs. SEC football or BE basketball, but I hope they're realistic. I think the BE has 8 teams that on a given day could hang with their top 4 and roll over the other 7.
drewm88 is right - there are a lot more UW alum and family and friends of alum. Having grown up in Milwaukee, I remember there was no hotter ticket than Warrior Tickets when Al was here. My dad is an alum and we had season tickets - amazing how popular I was among my buddies when an extra ticket became available. Badger football was not good at the time and their hoops program, if I recall was not very strong either - although they ALWAYS play us tough. I think the rise in popularity of the football program contributed immensely to the growth in hoops fans. How to change that? Just win baby. I didn't live in Wisconsin when we went to the final four, so let me throw this back out there to those who did. How did the state react to the Final Four? Did they rally behind us, or were the "haters" from UW criticizing us for losing so badly to Kansas?
Both things happened. The true state sports fans celebrated it, and the haters hated the first chance they got.
Simple...Wisconsin is one of those "tweener" states where everything rides on just a few things. Green Bay Packers, Wisconsin, Summerfest, etc. Those events that just grab the whole state.
It isn't a state like California or New York or Texas where a gazillion things are going on with allegiances everywhere. It's not a state like Michigan where there are two big institutions.
Nothing wrong with it, just ride with it.
Remember...81-76. Remember, in your lifetime 3 Final Fours and a national title...in that same time frame Wisconsin has a Final Four...that's it.
Remember, MU has been to TWICE the NCAAs as Wisconsin despite 1/3 the athletic budget, 1/5 the students and about 1/30th the alumni.
Be proud of your school and the fact we kicked their teeth in this year and will do it again next year.
And next time someone gives Bo a verbal BJ to you and rips on Crean, remind them that Crean is 3-4 against Bo and next year's game is at the Bradley Center. If MU wins, begs the question why they are 4-4 head to head.
Ask them why Bo can't beat a team with a better seed...EVER. Ask them why they lost a home game in the NCAA tournament at the Bradley Center with 17,000 Badger fans. Ask them why as a 2 seed they couldn't get out of the first weekend. You have plenty of ammunition my friend, don't just sit there....give what you get!!! ;)
Just do it nicely...after all you still have to live there....it's a lot easier for me from 2000 miles away.
not only are there a ton of alums that may be family or friends of the family, but for some reason the smaller state school grads associate with UW-M just as much as if they went there. Coupled with the fact that once you hit high school, the only school that is suggested for the higher ranking students by the guidance office, it's easy to see why they have such a following. One think I've brought up to my family since being at MU is the graduation rates of athletes there and the fact you're just a number. It's a great research school but the athletics programs are growing more and more into Ohio St type programs w/ scandals and a lack of graduating.
I really feel like I am on an Island most of the time especially since I am not Dentist nor am I lawyer.
Things have gotten better since I moved to Kenosha (a lot of Cub fans but they are a fun group) from Waukesha (Which is like a Badger haven)
One of the respondents said that Every HS guidance Counselor pushes UW on ever High Ranking kid.
Do they do the same for Marquette or does Marquette not get that respect?
And also If you were one of the highest ranking kids in your class wouldnt you want to look at Harvard, University of Chicago, MIT, Penn, Georgetown etc???? What kind of a state do we live in when your HS guidance lady is telling the Valedictorian to go to Wisconsin. Trust me when I say that my HS guidance lady wasnt telling the Valedictorian to go to Illinois when she was able to get into any school she wanted. (I think she went to MIT)
for me it was 'oh, marquette's an pretty good school too' My guidance counselor was my second cousin so it was a little different for me. the coordinator that worked with the 'gifted and talented' program coming up through middle school and into hs was a heavy supporter of UW and didn't really acknowledge MU much.
I just gave it into a co-worker who was harassing me about the loss Saturday.
First I said 81-76, he didn't understand like a normal Badger fan, so I spelled it out for him, Marquette over Wisconsin, when you beat us this year come talk to me.
Then I brought up the fact that the Big Ten is garbage this year, and I would be amazed if 1 Big Ten team made it out of the first weekend, the only team I see doing it is Michigan St due to Izzo, a hell of a tournament coach.
I also brought up last year, losing to UNLV, on their best year ever...
I also brought up the fact that if G-Town, Louisville, Notre Dame, UCONN or MU were in the Big Ten, they would win it outright
he came back with that this year they are better then last year, and I laughed, told him when they score over 75 points to give me a call, and walked away.
Since I live in Platteville, everywhere I walk its Bo country. And I will admit it, walking into the PAC(our athletic complex), it is very cool to see the 4 Natl Champ trophies from the 90's, the undefeated season banners in the gym, playing intramural basketball on Bo Ryan court, it is pretty neat, even for a non-badger fan.
However, the ball-licking from this state on Wisconsin basketball is amazing, I think it also has to do with their dedication to recruiting more players from this state, so people know these kids from high school, and watch them grow.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
The one that gets in my craw more than anything is the blind love that your average Wisconsonite especially those in the Milwaukee area have for the the Badgers.
I have a few questions
1. How long has this been around for (Is this a recent phenomenon since Alvarez got there)
Forever. It gets more intense when the Badgers are good, but its always there.
Quote2. Why do people think they relate so much to the Badgers
Because the Badgers are "Wisconsin's Team". People think of the university as representing the state and that team is a big part of it. Face it Wisconsin is a football state, not a basketball state. Since only Madison has football, everyone else in the state has latched on to them, and made them their team. Doesn't matter whether they went to Madison, or didn't go to college at all. Plus, people love to root for the kid from Sturgeon Bay or Prairie du Chien who shows he can make it in the Big 10 and play with big boys. Every little kid who's parents don't have a very strong tie to another university is raised to think that Wisconsin is the state's university and that they can be just like Joe Panos or Clayton Hanson or David Burkemper. Wisconsin is never the fastest, never the most athletic, never the school with the most talent, and people in this state love rooting for teams like that.
Someone from northern Wisconsin without a tie to either school isn't going to be able to relate to a kid like Ousmane Barro, but they'll root for Greg Stiemsa just because he's from the state.
Quote3. Why do people outright hate Marquette (Is it the amount of students from Illinois, is it because it is private?)
Private, Catholic, Expensive and in Milwaukee. There's a general distaste for private schools, regardless of which one it is, they are seen as elitist. There's a general dislike for religious schools among large portions of the state, and even people who are Catholic often have a problem with Jesuits, and therefore go against MU. Plus, most importantly, people from other parts of the state have a general distaste for things from Milwaukee. The joke is that there's Wisconsin and the independent state of Milwaukee. Go up to Antigo or Wausau some time and see the attitude towards Milwaukee. A lof the state thinks Milwaukee is a drug riddled, crime infested ghetto that just brings the state down. Even state legislators from other areas are against Milwaukee.
Quote4. What steps can the Marquette PR department take to get more of the fringe fans to watch MU over the Badgers
Nothing. And anything is done will only make MU look worse.
Quote5. Do people in this neck of the woods still believe the Big 10 is better than the SEC in football and better than the Big East in B-ball?
Yes.
[/quote]
QuoteThe joke is that there's Wisconsin and the independent state of Milwaukee. Go up to Antigo or Wausau some time and see the attitude towards Milwaukee. A lof the state thinks Milwaukee is a drug riddled, crime infested ghetto that just brings the state down. Even state legislators from other areas are against Milwaukee.
Anyone catch Bill Simmons' column in ESPN the Magazine this week where he said "I like Milwaukee and have always wanted to live there"? Hilarious stuff and I would love to have him. Here's the link in case you missed it:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3267445 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3267445)
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 10:12:29 PM
One of the respondents said that Every HS guidance Counselor pushes UW on ever High Ranking kid.
Do they do the same for Marquette or does Marquette not get that respect?
And also If you were one of the highest ranking kids in your class wouldnt you want to look at Harvard, University of Chicago, MIT, Penn, Georgetown etc???? What kind of a state do we live in when your HS guidance lady is telling the Valedictorian to go to Wisconsin. Trust me when I say that my HS guidance lady wasnt telling the Valedictorian to go to Illinois when she was able to get into any school she wanted. (I think she went to MIT)
You do realize that ranking's wise UW-Madison is a legitimate top academic school right? In all the rankings it's thought of by nearly everyone as one of the top 40 or so schools in the country. US News had it higher than traditionally great schools like Boston U, Case Western and IU. MU is a good school, but it's not on that level. UW-Madison isn't MIT, Penn or Georgetown, but it is a lot closer to them than you'd think.
From my experience...
1. How long has this been around for (Is this a recent phenomenon since Alvarez got there)
As long as I can remember.
2. Why do people think they relate so much to the Badgers
State school, their tax money funds it, football is more popular than basketball and the Badgers have that.
3. Why do people outright hate Marquette (Is it the amount of students from Illinois, is it because it is private?)
It's not the number of Illinois students. After all, UW-Madison has the lowest percentage of in-state enrollment of any public university in the country (a statistic many Badgers fans have no idea about). If someone wants to rip on Marquette people for being "wealthy out-of-staters", they need to look at the private dorms in Madison, which charge $25,000 a year for rent and host millionaires' kids from New York and LA, who join their fraternities/sororities and stick to it; if you get the "pleasure" of talking with them the next question out of their mouth after "what's your name?" is "what do your parents do?".
UWM and UW-Madison actually have about the same amount of Wisconsin residents. Being a private school (and the only large one with sports teams) has a lot to do with people not liking Marquette, even though they don't see the side of UW-Madison that hosts the out of state kids and charges alumni $3,000 "donations" to park. When the local news is flooded with stories about people struggling to pay in-state tuition, it's pretty much jealousy turned into a strong dislike of people who can find a way to pay even more in tuition.
4. What steps can the Marquette PR department take to get more of the fringe fans to watch MU over the Badgers
Remember, at any given time Marquette has 4,800 Wisconsin students and UW-Madison has 22,000 Wisconsin students. There's only so much that can be done. In Illinois, you have Illinois, Illinois State, Northern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois, Southern Illinois, UIC, Loyola-Chicago, Chicago State, Northwestern, and DePaul playing D1 basketball. Four of those are in a major conference or a significant mid-major. Wisconsin has two in a major conference and the two mid-majors that have little to no fanbase (unless a miracle run happens in the NCAAs). All its schools are in the "UW-system", which tries to give them a sense of connection with the other schools.
I guess the best way to get "market share" of something you can't completely win over is to have a different appeal to it. I guess that's the challenge: what appeals to the general private-school hating population that is different than what UW-Madison offers? While they showcased it two years ago, maybe Marquette hasn't exploited its Big East affiliation enough. The Big Ten has a "midwestern" appeal that Wisconsinites relate to. They know most teams, they've seen them over and over. The Big East has some kind of appeal, but what is it and how can Marquette's affiliation with the conference be exploited even though it's a challenge for most MU fans to name all the teams in the confernence?
Also, UW-Madison is a college town. State St, the Capitol, Halloween, block party. Marquette is in Milwaukee. Instead of the Capitol being right next to campus, there's a homeless shelter. When someone visits Madison they're going to want to see Camp Randall or shop and eat on State St, which are integrated into the campus. When someone visits Milwaukee, they don't want to go to Grand Avenue Mall, which has no Marquette ties in its atmosphere anyway, and they don't want to stop for drinks at Murphy's. It's more than just the teams-one can spend an entire day hanging around the campus in Madison. Marquette's campus isn't that big, but it would help to have some appeal that draws an ordinary person with no family ties to Marquette to come to campus for dinner or to shop or to see a game that draws a big crowd, either in person or while sitting in a comfortable "sports bar" setting, not from the decibel level featured at Murphy's or by going down into the Annex-these things can be fun for students and alumni, but offer little appeal (aesthetic or otherwise) that draws ordinary people to come visit. Either the campus needs to find these appeals, or the downtown close to campus needs to see some better attractions AND Marquette needs to have some sort of presence in these attractions. Milwaukee is a fun city; UW-Madison cannot offer NBA and MLB teams both within a very short drive from campus. Can they take what funds they have and can raise and combine the mwith great business decisions and improve the on campus attractions without causing the businesses that only cater to students now to get up and leave, while at the same time raking in just as much or more revenue to further make improvements?
On another note, which I hope doesn't start another broken-record debate: UW-Madison has Bucky and the W logo, red and white. Marquette has the MU logo and Southern Mississippi's eagle, gold, dark blue, light blue, and whatever color they dream up next. That's a problem for marketing. To an average person looking for jeans, an Old Navy store in the mall is a little more easy to relate to than seeing a chain store you don't really recognize but that looks somewhat expensive.
As far as academics, keep trying to improve academically by narrowing the talent gap like they've been, retaining/recruiting good professors, and improving relations with employers for jobs and internships. If there's a way to stress the beneficial courses Marquette requires, it might help, but they need to have students recognize the benefits of these courses. The philosophy courses are seen as difficult GPA killers that every student dreads taking rather than something that they find interesting and benefitical to their future. I found my theology classes to be very interesting and beneficial to me, but I know many students who would disagree with me. If you're trying to improve rankings and attract talented students, having programs most students view as the school's way of sucking more tuition out of them rather than a key part of the school's identity that will benefit them in the future won't help.
5. Do people in this neck of the woods still believe the Big 10 is better than the SEC in football and better than the Big East in B-ball?
Yes, they do. Not much you can do about that. We can't compete with football, but like I said above, we can try to educate people on the Big East competition and the overall atmosphete of the conference. It's not a "midwestern" conference, but there has to be some appeal in the word "East", as in "east coast, New York"; some differentiation that appeals to people.
I've also thought about this and here's what I've come up with:
1. NAME: In a small-Wisconsin town, like where I grew up, everyone just calls UW-Madison "Wisconsin". It's hard to root against "Wisconsin" when you live in Wisconsin.
2. HS GUIDANCE COUNSELORS: Of the top 10 kids at my high school (250 graduated) 8 went to UW-Madison, one went to Marquette (me) and one went to Ripon. It's just accepted that people at the top of the class go to UW-Madison.
3. FOOTBALL: Wisconsin as a state loves football. Hell, I even like UW-Madison's football team.
4. PRIVATE: Private schools are generally seen as elitist and expensive . . . what people fail to realize is that Marquette will actually be cheaper than UW-Madison for a lot of top students because Marquette will give a substantial amount of merit aid and UW-Madison will not. Most people, however, get sticker shock and don't even bother applying and seeing their financial aid award.
5. MILWAUKEE: The rest of the state does not relate to Milwaukee. It's the only big city in Wisconsin. For evidence of this phenomenon, just look to politics. I can't recall the last Milwaukean that won a major statewide office.
6. ACADEMICS: Most people view UW-Madison as a superior academic institution. It has a higher average ACT/SAT and class rank (although the gap is closing) for incoming students. It's also ranked much higher in U.S. News and World Report. Also, its medical school and graduate schools in the hard-sciences are top-notch. Its law school is also much more highly regarded than Marquette's Law School (at least nationally . . . there doesn't seem to be as big a difference in state . . .).
I maintain, however, that Marquette's reasonable class sizes (at least compared to UW-Madison's) and Jesuit tradition (required philosophy/theology and emphasis on service) give undergraduate students at Marquette a much better education than an undergraduate receives at UW-Madison.
While I sympathize with Marquette fans who must put up with these sorts of debates, I am a Chicagoan and personally don't give a crap about UW-Madison. I do find it surprising that so many people in Wisconsin could watch such a boring brand of basketball. Maybe some people miss the 1950's and Badger hoops is their only way to reconnect with the past.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 10:12:29 PM
I really feel like I am on an Island most of the time especially since I am not Dentist nor am I lawyer.
Things have gotten better since I moved to Kenosha (a lot of Cub fans but they are a fun group) from Waukesha (Which is like a Badger haven)
One of the respondents said that Every HS guidance Counselor pushes UW on ever High Ranking kid.
Do they do the same for Marquette or does Marquette not get that respect?
And also If you were one of the highest ranking kids in your class wouldnt you want to look at Harvard, University of Chicago, MIT, Penn, Georgetown etc???? What kind of a state do we live in when your HS guidance lady is telling the Valedictorian to go to Wisconsin. Trust me when I say that my HS guidance lady wasnt telling the Valedictorian to go to Illinois when she was able to get into any school she wanted. (I think she went to MIT)
In high school, the guidance counselors, and many teachers, pushed UW-Madison. In all their college information/preparation time, all private colleges were grouped together in a three or four minute afterthought that basically said "if you want to go to private school, they might give you a scholarship or some financial aid that will make it more affordable". Nothing about stressing the benefits, or even naming the individual schools or getting alumni to speak to people. The career fair had a representative from all UW- schools, but only one or two people representing all private Wisconsin schools. The highest ranked students had UW-Madison or UW-Eau Claire preached to them; if you wanted to bring up another school you had to try to make the guidance counselor do work for you (which isn't likely when it takes harassment for a couple days to get into a class they say is full). That pretty much puts you on your own; if you want someone to do all the work for you then it's easier to listen to what they say. To this day I don't think my guidance counselor understood that I was fully aware and understood that UW-Eau Claire offered me a scholarship that would have made my tuition next to nothing because I completely dismissed it, not wanting to go to school there.
Another thing that can be done-if you're an alumnus and working in Wisconsin, do what the guidance counselors don't do and go even further when you see a kid that could get into MU. My father's best friend is an alumnus. While in high school, he would tell me to consider going to Marquette whenever I would see him. He would mention how great the basketball games are. That wasn't enough to convince me to burden myself and my parents with Marquette tuition, and I spent my first year in Madison. During spring break of freshman year, I had to go and tell my father's friend he was right. So do a better job of convincing these kids-if you can bring them to a game, take them to campus, have them meet a professor you knew, write them a letter of recommendation to send just to MU, try to get your workplace to give them a scholarship, anything that the guidance counselors aren't doing for them and more. If that kid goes to MU, they're going to support the sports teams, and invite their friends to come to games (another reason why the easiness of student ticket exchanges are helpful). I've brought a few friends to show around campus and to a basketball game, and even if they're still more loyal to the Badgers, they at least like Marquette now that they've experienced it and got to go to a game for free.
My HS is a tiny Catholic one in central WI. We graduate about 40/year, but virtually everyone goes on to at least a 2 year school afterwards. In the past 4 years, myself and 1 other are the only to come here.
The public school in my town has classes of about 300. They have 1 student here currently.
I was a top of the class kid. Had I sat back and been passive in looking at schools, I wouldn't be here. My counselor was a great guy, but when he's stretched too thin, he focuses on the schools that most of the students will eventually head towards--Madison and Eau Claire. It makes sense, but it doesn't do us any help.
On the other hand, nobody from Marquette admissions ever came to my school to talk to students. Various UW people, St. Norbert's, Ripon, Carrol, but no MU. That needs to change.
1. years ago nobody cared about Madison's sports- football games were played in empty stadiums, bball team was coached by a former tennis coach-and they sucked. in building the teams, the department ran several million $ in the hole- resulting in raising the tax burden on all residents. amazingly there was little bitching. finally, they elevated the dept by throwing big bucks at it: coaches, huge band that travels (3 semis full of equip) more members than other schools have in their band, recruits, updated facilities, all members of a varsity sports team were put on a 5 year plan (much easier class load-some take ball room dancing for credit). Pat Richter took over as AD, and so on. Thru dumb luck they hired a great bball coach-Dick Bennett and started to see real success.
2. all valedictorians of state high schools are given a full ride scholarship to UWMadison, or any extensions, or schools w/ resiprosity (MN). For some, this is hard to pass. Additionally, few are properly counselled to apply to the tough ones, and UW becomes a first choice. Further, as all tax paying residents are footing the bill, many parents feel they want a payback. My daughter turned the scholarship down, felt it would be like 4 more years of high school. Weirdly, any grad of oshkosh, ripon, stevens point, lacrosse, or other uw extensions, feel that madison is their school, and that they are baajrs.
3. due to its enormity, there is a huge base of alums that want to be proud of their school, and, as many stay in WI they are the journalists, the media experts, the tv sportscasters, the weather man, etc. giving all the media a UW bias. Further, as there exists a natural audience, The Urinal Cos (620am, channel 4, 94.5fm, journal/sentinel) own the contract for both baajr football and bball. While they are broadcast on the most powerful, largest audience stations, MU broadcasts are impossible to find, or receive o/side Milw county.
4. as Madison is so far left they elect state reps because they are lesbian or native american in spite of obvious shortcomings, there is an 'anti-religion' bias fomented there, and all UW students are indoctrinated. (uw is currently being sued by the only campus group to be refused funding. No, not the radical muslim group, it's the christian group.)
Quote from: augoman on March 03, 2008, 12:25:12 AM
2. all valedictorians of state high schools are given a full ride scholarship to UWMadison, or any extensions, or schools w/ resiprosity (MN). For some, this is hard to pass.
As a former (co) valedictorian of a public, Wisconsin high school in 2002, I can assure you that not all valedictorians received full scholarships to UW-Madison. In fact, the award that the (top 3) valedictorians received from the state was $2,250 a year for 4 years to any school (public or private) in the state of Wisconsin.
(my high school didn't have weighted grades)
***Edited . . . the below post jogged my memory . . . it was $2,250
Quote from: augoman on March 03, 2008, 12:25:12 AM
2. all valedictorians of state high schools are given a full ride scholarship to UWMadison, or any extensions, or schools w/ resiprosity (MN). For some, this is hard to pass. Additionally, few are properly counselled to apply to the tough ones, and UW becomes a first choice. Further, as all tax paying residents are footing the bill, many parents feel they want a payback. My daughter turned the scholarship down, felt it would be like 4 more years of high school. Weirdly, any grad of oshkosh, ripon, stevens point, lacrosse, or other uw extensions, feel that madison is their school, and that they are baajrs.
Was this very recently or a few years back? I heard it used to be the case, but as of '05 it wasn't. I was only given a $2250/yr scholarship from the state as valedictorian (half paid by the state, half must be matched by the school), and it was to attend any school (public or private) in Wisconsin, so it came off my MU tuition.
Also, I know a couple people who have done this, but I don't know about how big of a deal it is...another thing that can be brought up is the 2 year colleges system. Going two years and pulling a 2.6 GPA at the community college gives students an automatic transfer acceptance into UW-Madison and transfer of their courses. Applying to Marquette won't give them guaranteed acceptance, will result in at least a few courses not transferring, and they will still have to take a bunch of core classes that aren't required elsewhere-in other words, it's not an option, even if they are bright kids. Again, not sure how widespread it is, but I've known a couple of the hard-working kids who started at the two year school, and when their goal of going to Madison becomes that concrete they aren't going to give a lick about MU.
QuoteAs a former (co) valedictorian of a public, Wisconsin high school in 2002, I can assure you that not all valedictorians received full scholarships to UW-Madison. In fact, the award that the (top 3) valedictorians received from the state was $1,500 a year for 4 years to any school (public or private) in the state of Wisconsin.
Same here in '06.
The number given ranges from 1 to I believe 3 depending on school size.
QuoteAlso, I know a couple people who have done this, but I don't know about how big of a deal it is...another thing that can be brought up is the 2 year colleges system. Going two years and pulling a 2.6 GPA at the community college gives students an automatic transfer acceptance into UW-Madison and transfer of their courses. Applying to Marquette won't give them guaranteed acceptance, will result in at least a few courses not transferring, and they will still have to take a bunch of core classes that aren't required elsewhere-in other words, it's not an option, even if they are bright kids. Again, not sure how widespread it is, but I've known a couple of the hard-working kids who started at the two year school, and when their goal of going to Madison becomes that concrete they aren't going to give a lick about MU.
That's a good point, but any idea how many people end up pulling the 2-year to Madison route each year?
Several thoughts on the many things brought up on this topic.
First, before I forget, I believe it used to a be a full, four-ride at any UW System school for the top 1 to 3 members of each high school's graduating class. It appears that must have changed in the last decade.
I'm 36 and have lived in La Crosse for the last 30 years, sans my two years at Marquette. I know NO ONE my age that was a Wisconsin-Madison fan in either basketball or football growing up. I repeat, NO ONE. Sports in this part of the world in the 80s were:
Co No. 1s - Brewers/Bucks depending upon the season
Distant No. 3 - Packers
Almost completely off the map - Wisconsin-Madison
The comments about the media being biased toward Wisconsin-Madison and anti-MU are dead on. I know ZERO other media members who are Marquette fans. I've been part of the media for almost 11 years now. And the comment about sportcasters in this town being pro-Wisconsin-Madison and anti-MU are dead on, too. My roommate was surprised last night that a 70-68 overtime game involving two ranked teams, one of which plays in Milwaukee, got nothing, no score, no highlights, nothing, on the 6 p.m. sports on either station in La Crosse. I wasn't surprised one bit (for reference, I had to cover a high school game at 1:30 p.m. yesterday, had my roommate tape the game, and he only taped 'til 3:30, so I still haven't seen and probably won't ever see the game from after the banked-in 3 yesterday, other than the final turnover).
(As an aside, relying on ESPN was even more frustrating. They showed a grand total of three highlights from the game, Burke's tip dunk, the banked-in three and the final sequence. Instead, they displayed a graphic equating the 800 wins a woman's coach apparently achieved earlier this week to the 800 wins Krzyzewski got to yesterday. Another topic for another time. I digress).
Yes, there is a big-time private stereotype in this state. I see it more from the public schools to La Crosse Aquinas, and it starts at the top and works it way right on down.
Yes, amazingly, people do think Miniscule 11 football is better than the SEC and Mini 11 basketball is better than the Big East. No contest.
One thing I will say. Most people in this state didn't have any problem with MU making the Final Four in 2003.
A quick Bo Ryan story for you. A buddy of mine visited Platteville when he was a senior to play basketball there. Apparently Ryan had a picture of himself and the '95 World University Games team (he was an assistant). He showed my buddy the picture and asked him "Who in this photo won't make a million dollars?" This team included Duncan, Iverson and Ray Allen, among others. My buddy, being a 17-year-old high school senior and naturally a little nervous, responded, "You." End of visit. And people on here rip on Crean for his supposed weaknesses in that area.
Interesting people mention Milwaukee being an island in Wisconsin. I've always thought of the People's Republic of Madison as being it's own little island. A good friend of mine who went to school won't even live in town now due to the high cost of living. And I always call it Wisconsin-Madison, except to actual Wisconsin-Madison students or graduates in a sports context.
I discovered at some point during my sophomore year at MU that I could be in hole financially for decades with four years at MU, or basically go to UW-La Crosse for free. I unfortunately chose the latter, and I wish someone would have talked me into sticking it out.
Solutions: I try like heck to promote MU every chance I get. I learned more in 1 1/2 years at MU than in 3 1/2 years at La Crosse, and it isn't even close.
Lastly, always keep in mind MU is the last and next Wisconsin team to make a Final Four, qualify for a national championship game and win a national championship.
although nothing is simple when you live in RI but were born and raised in WI, especially in view of the recent success of the Pats, Sox and now the Celts, one's loyalties should go like this:
College BB- MU all the way and WI when they are not playing MU
College FB - no choice, Badgers and the Big Ten
MLB- Go Brew Crew
NFL- the Pack, nothing was more delicious than hosting a party of Pats fans in our Super Bowl triumph over them.
NBA- here's where your loyalty really is testing but, Go Bucks!
What in gods name is a private dorm?
And isnt a Private dorm essentially an Apartment ?
Funny story this last year about Badger fans. I am USC fan in football (yea thats right i jumped on the private school bandwagon) and a Badger fan two years ago was trying to tell me that if USC was in the Big 10 for football that they would have finished with over 4 loss's every year. When I asked him how he figured that he said "Well those west coast teams like USC just dont run the ball and all they do is pass, that flashy style of play only works against sissy teams" When i told the guy that USC is known as Halfback University and that they have had the best crop of halfbacks ever he said "Well none of them haver won the Heisman like Ron Dayne"
This was the same year that USC running back Reggie Bush won the Heisman!!!!
I understand that Big 10 football was probably very good in the 60's 70's and 80's. But I couldnt believe that this guy was that clueless!!!
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
The one that gets in my craw more than anything is the blind love that your average Wisconsonite especially those in the Milwaukee area have for the the Badgers.
I have a few questions
1. How long has this been around for (Is this a recent phenomenon since Alvarez got there)
2. Why do people think they relate so much to the Badgers
3. Why do people outright hate Marquette (Is it the amount of students from Illinois, is it because it is private?)
4. What steps can the Marquette PR department take to get more of the fringe fans to watch MU over the Badgers
5. Do people in this neck of the woods still believe the Big 10 is better than the SEC in football and better than the Big East in B-ball?
I made the mistake of going over to Badgermaniac today and it makes me very upset that Marquette is seen by the people in this state as both a lesser academic and athletic institution in this State. I feel like I have no defense against these claims and I need som Ammunition (although living in Kenosha is nice because it is definetly a pro-sports town)
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
Wisconsin born and raised. Became an MU fan before being a fan of any other sporting team including the Packers. I think some of the older UW basketball fans hate MU basketball because of MU's success in the 70s and AL's antics. Recruiting battles along the way and now UW's emergence as a very good program coupled with MU's return to greater success has increased the hostility among some.
In the past I have followed the UW basketball and football program. THe football program is probably the main reason you have a lot of MU fans that follow UW. Heck it is the only program around here. You want more fringe fans, get a football team.
I have now over the last 7-8 years cooled on watching the badgers mainly because of the internet and the hatred that they have for MU. I now enjoy when the badgers lose and I have even stopped following their football team as its hard to root for or against one and not the other.
QuoteGoing two years and pulling a 2.6 GPA at the community college gives students an automatic transfer acceptance into UW-Madison and transfer of their courses. Applying to Marquette won't give them guaranteed acceptance, will result in at least a few courses not transferring, and they will still have to take a bunch of core classes that aren't required elsewhere-in other words, it's not an option, even if they are bright kids.
I don't know how things work these days, but this was absolutely not the case back in 1979. When I left high school I wasn't sure what I wanted to major in and went to a two-year UW-center my first year. When I wanted to transfer, Marquette accepted nearly all of my credits. UW-Madison would not have accepted many of them -- including at least one class taught by a UW-Madison instructor who drove over from Madison twice a week.
Quote from: Eye on March 03, 2008, 01:49:08 AM
The comments about the media being biased toward Wisconsin-Madison and anti-MU are dead on. I know ZERO other media members who are Marquette fans. I've been part of the media for almost 11 years now. And the comment about sportcasters in this town being pro-Wisconsin-Madison and anti-MU are dead on, too.
The only Marquette media person I know of is Jen Lada, the TV sports babe on Fox-6 in Milwaukee. I've seen her in the stands at the last few games (as a fan). Everyone else is pretty slanted toward UW-Madison.
My girlfriend heard some elderly ladies talking about how they felt so bad for the boys (Marquette) on Saturday night - that was in MADISON!!, albeit at a Catholic Church get together.
I grew up west of Madison. I'll gladly cheer for UW if they're not playing Marquette. In fact after cheering my butt off for MUs win over Pitt, I was offered tickets to the UW - Minnesota game. I enjoyed both that game and the UW hockey game on Saturday. I will say, I'd much rather watch Big East basketball than Big Ten any day (except for maybe MSU, wow were they pushing the tempo and firing on all cylinders the other night). But any college bball game in person is worth it even if it is slow white guys that just don't turn the ball over. Fortunately for me, with my MU season tickets and my connections to people at UW with tickets I will never miss the MU vs UW game.
81-76!!
And in response to a previous thread involving ND football. I'd cheer for UW over ND any day!!
Quote from: ultimate on March 03, 2008, 09:30:41 AM
And in response to a previous thread involving ND football. I'd cheer for UW over ND any day!!
You'll probably never have that conundrum....
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
I know where you are going with this, but be careful throwing out blue color professions and painting with a broad brush.
I know a lot of blue collars are UW fans... but having a Marquette Alum make a broad statement like that really makes MU look/sound elitist, and that is probably part of the reason why most people don't identify with MU.
I am not from wisconsin but this is also a topic that seriously bothers me. for example, walking back from the UW- MU game that was played at the bradley center last year, i was completely crushed. i had been up since 5 am and was just crushed by the loss in that game. walking back to my dorm i ran into a fellow MU student from green bay, i looked at him and said, "ohh my god was that a crappy game." his wisconsinite response, "who cares, alando tucker is tha man and WE are going to make the final four this year." when i got to MU i gave up all my sports allegiances to schools not named Marquette. how come kids from wisconsin cant do the same? or at least pretend to care about the school they go to?
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
I know where you are going with this, but be careful throwing out blue color professions and painting with a broad brush.
I know a lot of blue collars are UW fans... but having a Marquette Alum make a broad statement like that really makes MU look/sound elitist, and that is probably part of the reason why most people don't identify with MU.
2002, to add to your point, painting with this "broad brush" also goes against MU's mission. The Jesuits often point to using your higher education to assist those in your community. That is counter to any arguement that MU is elitist.
I'll speak to an area that I know about: MU Law promotes the fact that it is the only law school in Milwaukee and, therefore, must train lawyers that can assist the community (i.e. public defenders, district attorneys, family law, etc). It promotes "hands on" lawyering and bringin justice to those who may not have ready access to it over theoretical and "textbook" educations. In truth, a practical approach and a theoretical approach must be part of any good curriculum (sp?), but as an institution MU law pushes the practical over the theoretical. Elitist? No way.
Chapman said:
In Illinois, you have Illinois, Illinois State, Northern Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Western Illinois, Southern Illinois, UIC, Loyola-Chicago, Chicago State, Northwestern, and DePaul playing D1 basketball. Four of those are in a major conference or a significant mid-major.
Don't forget about the mighty Bradley Braves.
Quote from: SoCalEagle on March 03, 2008, 10:45:16 AM
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
I know where you are going with this, but be careful throwing out blue color professions and painting with a broad brush.
I know a lot of blue collars are UW fans... but having a Marquette Alum make a broad statement like that really makes MU look/sound elitist, and that is probably part of the reason why most people don't identify with MU.
2002, to add to your point, painting with this "broad brush" also goes against MU's mission. The Jesuits often point to using your higher education to assist those in your community. That is counter to any arguement that MU is elitist.
I'll speak to an area that I know about: MU Law promotes the fact that it is the only law school in Milwaukee and, therefore, must train lawyers that can assist the community (i.e. public defenders, district attorneys, family law, etc). It promotes "hands on" lawyering and bringin justice to those who may not have ready access to it over theoretical and "textbook" educations. In truth, a practical approach and a theoretical approach must be part of any good curriculum (sp?), but as an institution MU law pushes the practical over the theoretical. Elitist? No way.
Totally agree... to be honest, I don't think the average citizen realizes everything that MU provides to the Milwaukee community (service, well-educated citizens, national profile, etc.)...
But, that's ok... we as MU alumni need to represent the school and ourselves well, and then people will realize how great MU really is :-)
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
I said it before why are the Plumbers, the Carpenters, the Production line workers, and all the people that make this state run feel like they have to cheer for the Badgers, while the only people that cheer for Marquette are Alums of the School, and Dentist???
I need an answer.
Listen I even gave props the blue collar workers by saying that it is those guys who make this state run
I know where you are going with this, but be careful throwing out blue color professions and painting with a broad brush.
I know a lot of blue collars are UW fans... but having a Marquette Alum make a broad statement like that really makes MU look/sound elitist, and that is probably part of the reason why most people don't identify with MU.
Marquette came out to my high school (catholic) way down in Albuquerque, NM. After a visit I fell in love with the place, but never would have considered it without that recruiter making it out. Any 18 year old kid is going to, for the most part, listen to the adults in his life when it comes to college choices.
Same can be said for my wife who was in a high school in Germany (DODDs)...MU recruiter came out, maintained contact with anyone showing the slightest interest in MU and got people in the door. Later I encouraged my younger cousin, also from New Mexico, to consider MU...he graduated in 2004.
Why is this not happening to a much greater degree in Marquette's own home state? Clearly, based on size and football UW will always be the big kid on the block in WI...but there is no reason virtually every guidance counselor in WI should be overlooking MU. And if MU is not sending a recruiter into every private high school and say 50-75% of every public school in the state then that is a shame.
If the counselors are not going to do it then why can't Marquette do it for them? Don't know if this is already being done, but...if I were in charge for a day I would aggressively recruit and offer scholarships to the top 10% academic performers in every HS in the state of WI. You increase the academic standing (perception) within the state, increase exposure as more families have a relative connected MU, and still leave plenty of room for those of us who want to travel to MU.
I don't think we're in a bad place, but maybe there are some things that could be done differently.
MU'92
Quote from: MUinCO on March 03, 2008, 04:52:37 PM
Same can be said for my wife who was in a high school in Germany (DODDs)...MU recruiter came out, maintained contact with anyone showing the slightest interest in MU and got people in the door. Later I encouraged my younger cousin, also from New Mexico, to consider MU...he graduated in 2004.
Exactly my situation.. I was at Lakenheath AFB in England my Junior & Senior year of high school (also a DODD school). MU "recruiter" came out and represented MU at a college fair that was at the school.. I was walking around, saw the girl I was interested in checking out the nursing program there.. decided to see what it was about.. MU had engineering.. worked for me.. other high school teacher said "MU? Very big basketball school." I was hooked so I applied.
Most of my family is from Madison so I also applied to UW. Last application was to Iowa State because they were also at the fair and had a decent looking engineering program. I got accepted by all three so I had to make a decision. never even got a chance to see any of the campuses before accepting. Those were the days before the WWW was big so I had to look at the brochures and rely on fairly shallow judgements.. I figured UW was too close to the family and too large for my tastes so that was out.. Iowa State was too far from family so that was out.. MU was just the right drive away and gave me a scholarship - we had a winner. say yeah that one. Got awfully lucky if you ask me. That recruiter is what got me even thinking about MU. The teacher saying "big basketball school" piqued my interest - this being 15 years after our NCAA championship.. hopefully the 2003 final four has an equal impact for as long.
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 03, 2008, 04:36:02 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 03, 2008, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: NateDoggMarq on March 02, 2008, 08:46:21 PM
Listen I even gave props the blue collar workers by saying that it is those guys who make this state run
I think I know what you are trying to get at... but giving "props" to a group and then making a broad generalization in the same thought isn't going to get you very far.
I do realize that the majority of WI residents do identify with UW... but to select out groups/professions (especially ones not featured at MU) and ask (in an accusatory manner) "why are they all UW fans?" makes you sound arrogant. I'm sorry. It just does.
A lot of people in the state already have a pre-conceived notions about MU being elitist (an incorrect notion I might add), so please do not give them another reason to believe that.
I am also frustrated that more people don't root for MU but rather follow UW... but I guess I also realize that being a Catholic University is automatically going to turn off a good percentage of the population. Nothing we can do about that. Some people aren't Catholic, and/or choose not to identify with a Catholic institution.
Also, many UW-(insert letter) students and alumni identify with UW-Madison. The whole "state school system" is in play.
I know a couple of Duke alums, and they said it's the same way in North Carolina. Duke gets a ton of national attention, but in their own backyard, UNC and even NC State have a big(ger) presence among the local community.
Hey, come to think of it, why the heck not? I'm helping pay Bo Ryan's salary... why shouldn't I root for them? ;)
Quote from: superfan1387 on March 03, 2008, 10:43:54 AM
I am not from wisconsin but this is also a topic that seriously bothers me. for example, walking back from the UW- MU game that was played at the bradley center last year, i was completely crushed. i had been up since 5 am and was just crushed by the loss in that game. walking back to my dorm i ran into a fellow MU student from green bay, i looked at him and said, "ohh my god was that a crappy game." his wisconsinite response, "who cares, alando tucker is tha man and WE are going to make the final four this year." when i got to MU i gave up all my sports allegiances to schools not named Marquette. how come kids from wisconsin cant do the same? or at least pretend to care about the school they go to?
It's an extremely small part of the population here. I only know one student who pulls for UW over MU. Never ceases to confound and annoy me, but it is what it is.
i only wish it was a small number of students, i can think of at least 15 people i know here that wear their UW stuff all the time and admit to caring more about any sports team from UW than MU. i wish they were the only people guilty of this, but sadly i think there are more
Quote from: superfan1387 on March 03, 2008, 09:04:15 PM
i only wish it was a small number of students, i can think of at least 15 people i know here that wear their UW stuff all the time and admit to caring more about any sports team from UW than MU. i wish they were the only people guilty of this, but sadly i think there are more
Caring about the small amount of UW fans at MU would be like worrying about a Red Sox fan in the Bronx. I wouldn't worry about those with their minds firmly made up one way or the other. Take a page from the politicians' playbook and worry about converting "swing students" who aren't active fans of any university.
On a related note, I know somebody (a MU student) from East Lansing, MI, who was so torn between cheering for MU and cheering for MSU in the tourney last year. This same person said that MSU had better fans than MU because they care so much, wait outside so early for so long for games, etc., yet never wants to wait outside early for MU games and skips games frequently for homework and such. I find this whole thing ridiculous. I think people should take pride in their school and want their school to be and be seen as one of the best instead of finding reasons why their "hometown" school which they do not attend is better than the school they attend.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 02, 2008, 09:42:44 PMAsk them why they lost a home game in the NCAA tournament at the Bradley Center with 17,000 Badger fans.
Thanks for the memories. It was wonderful to see 17000 sad red faces walking dejectedly out of the Bradley Center - my team's home floor. I wore my MU gold proudly - and when people made fun or asked why I told them I would never watch a college basketball game at the Bradley Center without it. One of the best tournament games I've been to - behind the 2 MU games @ Indy 2003 of course.
By the way, Wisc. should have lost to Richmond the game before; thankfully Pitt made it happen.