Worthy of its own thread. And fun alliteration.
Welcome, young man.
Welcome aboard, Colton!
Good news!
Good sign that two other Big East programs were after him, including a HOF'er.
Great news. Gives us backcourt depth and hopefully someone who can provide depth minutes behind Nigel.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 16, 2026, 04:36:37 PMGood sign that two other Big East programs were after him, including a HOF'er.
Well...
Welcome, the crowd is behind you!
(Yoda voice) offseason signings, company, two is. Three signings, a Crowd is.
Welcome Colton!
Very good news!
Awesome Welcome Colton!!
Hope he hates bad assistant coaches
Excellent!!! Welcome Colton!
Nm
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 16, 2026, 05:30:37 PMHope he hates bad assistant coaches
Not to mention a coach on the hot seat. Everyone knows Shaka is gonna start 18 over Fru. sjbh
Crowdis went for 21 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 steals against renowned Blair Academy in the National Prep tourney in March.
A solid late pickup at a position of need. Hoping CC can provide 10 minutes of production at the 1 and 2 guard spots. Huge if he can help Nigel and Adrien get some in-game rest.
What a great get. Unlimited shooting range. Great ball-handler who relentlessly pushes the pace. Point guard was not a position of pressing need for Providence, yet the Friars pushed hard to get him, so they obviously thought super highly of him. And Pitino doesn't recruit stiffs. This is big.
Kam Jones and Tyler Kolek Blender.
Someone had to do it.
Really like this signing. PG with size and range. Can spell Nigel or Stevens if needed due to fouls or rest. Really like his ceiling--can you imagine him and mp2 raining 3s for us in a year or two?
Looks like a player in the very limited video I've seen.
Quote from: JoanofArcMascot on May 17, 2026, 12:15:39 AMWhat a great get. Unlimited shooting range. Great ball-handler who relentlessly pushes the pace. Point guard was not a position of pressing need for Providence, yet the Friars pushed hard to get him, so they obviously thought super highly of him. And Pitino doesn't recruit stiffs. This is big.
LOL...probably should pump the brakes a little on the expectations.
Seems like a very solid addition at this point. Need someone who can share ball handling duties with Nigel.
I am predicting that he will not be 0 for the season from 3. A low bar.....
Quote from: JakeBarnes on May 17, 2026, 08:28:24 AMReally like this signing. PG with size and range. Can spell Nigel or Stevens if needed due to fouls or rest. Really like his ceiling--can you imagine him and mp2 raining 3s for us in a year or two?
I like that you finished with "in a year or two." I'm
very happy having him at Marquette, but although he
may have a freshman year like Nigel's (in whatever PT he gets), more likely he will need his first season in college bball to settle in and adjust to the college game.
And if he proves me too cautious? Great!
Tower, are you satisfied? ;D
Quote from: The Sultan on May 17, 2026, 08:57:18 AMLOL...probably should pump the brakes a little on the expectations.
Agree. I am hoping he can be a viable backup at both guard positions, playing 5-15 mpg as needed, and getting extended PT in a few games if he happens to have a hot hand. Even that might be a little optimistic, but I certainly don't expect him to be the kind of freshman contributor James and Stevens were last season - in part because MU shouldn't need him to be that.
His tape reminds me of Pistol Pete. Colton 45?
I am skeptical of the level of competition.
Quote from: MU82 on May 17, 2026, 12:15:09 PMAgree. I am hoping he can be a viable backup at both guard positions, playing 5-15 mpg as needed, and getting extended PT in a few games if he happens to have a hot hand. Even that might be a little optimistic, but I certainly don't expect him to be the kind of freshman contributor James and Stevens were last season - in part because MU shouldn't need him to be that.
Another rational post about him. I shouldn't be surprised that some here have already crowned him as our backup PG. Let him get HS graduation behind him and some time on the court this Fall to learn about the Wonderful World of College Basketball before we act like a bunch of scoopers and start complaining that he has not lived up to our expectations.
To repeat what I said in another post-I hope he proves me wrong and gets off to a great start and dazzles us. But I'm not expecting it.
Quote from: MU82 on May 16, 2026, 07:25:14 PMNot to mention a coach on the hot seat. Everyone knows Shaka is gonna start 18 over Fru. sjbh
Why so bitter?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 17, 2026, 11:22:17 AMTower, are you satisfied? ;D
Yes-ish. His tape is fun, though I worry about the competition level. It appears that he went from unknown to known in a hurry. He looks like he has a lot of upside.
My fundamental concern about the guard position all along has been injuries. What if NJ/AS go through what so many MU guards go through? My conrarian nature is more concerned about the possibility of EJ, AE, MP, IM, NW, DO having to initiate offense than I am about them having to guard bigger players.
CC clearly has experience running a team, running pick and roll, creating and getting his teammates open looks. Yay! There are still more unknowns than if Shaka had found a senior from MAC/Horizon/Summit. Conversely, there is also a higher ceiling.
So, like any other recruit, cool! Awesome! Welcome! I do not think he is a difference maker this season, but I think he is a decent depth piece for now.
Walker and this kid have the ability to shoot the 3, can they as freshman, if one of them can it should really help Nigel get to the hoop as the court will be spread out. Pick and roll game should be back in the offense. Then if MP can take a big jump, they will really have something. Not sold on DO, hope he surprises.
Its great to see the team have shooters. What a difference it should make.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on May 17, 2026, 05:04:20 PMIts great to see the team have shooters. What a difference it should make.
...on our defense if these yung bois get PT. #LastYear
There's no way to know if it will take him a year but I like the pick-up.
Hope he can get his jump shot off in the Big East. Looks a lot like a hybrid set/jump shot. In any case if he can draw the defense with his driving and dish, it will be a good get.
Quote from: NCMUFan on May 17, 2026, 07:47:44 PMHope he can get his jump shot off in the Big East. Looks a lot like a hybrid set/jump shot. In any case if he can draw the defense with his driving and dish, it will be a good get.
He's 6'4. Kolek didn't get any elevation on his shot. Stevie shot a set shot at 6'2. He'll have no issues with that.
NJ's jumper is hardly textbook and he is hardly tall.
Quote from: tower912 on May 17, 2026, 08:22:15 PMNJ's jumper is hardly textbook and he is hardly tall.
The young man has ultra tier one elevation. Don't forget that ridiculous up and under, with masse' english, off the glass, vs St.J.
Quote from: MU82 on May 16, 2026, 08:08:59 PMCrowdis went for 21 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 steals against renowned Blair Academy in the National Prep tourney in March.
Nice! Blair Academy where Marquette Player Dwight Burke played
Yesterday afternoon Texted Nolan's Uncle that Colton Crowdis Committed To Marquette. He probably already knew but hearted it.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on May 17, 2026, 08:44:57 PMYesterday afternoon Texted Nolan's Uncle Colton Crowdis Committed To Marquette. He probably already knew but hearted it.
This is lowkey a crazy post!!! Might be the THC though but rn it seems like a wild post
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 17, 2026, 08:30:40 PMThe young man has ultra tier one elevation. Don't forget that ridiculous up and under, with masse' english, off the glass, vs St.J.
Yes, Nigel can really sky, and that move against the Johnnies was Marquette's play of the year.
But have you actually seen his jump shot? He barely jumps, and he releases it low.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on May 17, 2026, 03:08:05 PMWhy so bitter?
Wut?
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 17, 2026, 02:10:30 PMLet him get HS graduation behind him...
Can someone clarify Crowdis's age and status? Is Bridgton purely post-grad? Did he graduate from HS in Toronto in 2025 and then go for a year of prep at Bridgton?
"Colton Crodiener"
"Colton Kolekdis"
-John Dodds.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 18, 2026, 08:26:51 AM"Colton Crodiener"
"Colton Kolekdis"
-John Dodds.
Sounds about white
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on May 17, 2026, 10:15:47 AMI like that you finished with "in a year or two." I'm very happy having him at Marquette, but although he may have a freshman year like Nigel's (in whatever PT he gets), more likely he will need his first season in college bball to settle in and adjust to the college game.
And if he proves me too cautious? Great!
I don't normally have a savior complex for frosh--just for upperclassmen that I think will take a leap :P
Crowdis looks like a great fit for our team. Length at the guard position. Shoots well with a lot of range. Can drive and dish. Just needs to get into the speed of the game at college level and add some bulk. But to reiterate--lots to project, which is exciting.
To take a paraphrased bit from Shaka's interview with The Athletic (about MP2): you look at him and think he will be a guy in the future. Feel that way about CC and MP2. And with NJ running point and AS as a strong 2 guard...we have the luxury of having him come along slowly and gain confidence in spot minutes.
I hope he can step in as a backup PG this coming season. He clearly needs to bulk up and I'm worried he's going to redshirt despite that being a thing of the past...
Give us 10-12 minutes a night spotting Nigel and that's a hugely successful frosh season. Pair him with Minessale so they can split ballhandling duties and not have as substantial a playmaking drop-off when NJ is catching his breath.
Managing Nigel's minutes should be a priority this season, especially early on. I don't think there will be as many gimme games in the Big East this coming season. DePaul, Xavier and Providence have improved. UConn, St. John's, Villanova and Creighton look like they'll make the tournament. Georgetown and Seton Hall might not even be push overs this season.
Let's just hope Marquette has done enough this offseason to land in the top half of that hierarchy.
The way Nigel plays, he'll need his legs and the more he's shielded from injury, the better.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 18, 2026, 08:02:01 AMCan someone clarify Crowdis's age and status? Is Bridgton purely post-grad? Did he graduate from HS in Toronto in 2025 and then go for a year of prep at Bridgton?
I wish I could say I'm 100% on this, but I'm not. Feel pretty good about it though:
Bridgton has historically been a one year, post-grad spot. However, I think in recent years they've added some 'high school seniors' with an option for a one or two-year program. That appears to be the case with CC -- a natural 2026 kid, who went to Bridgton to finish his natural senior year. Perhaps a situation where he'd had given thought to a post-grad year if he didn't find Marquette Money.
Question is if this impacting the level of recruiting by the masses or there was... something else.
I am willing to be surprised, but I think a lot of people are talking themselves into a larger role next year for this guy than he is actually going to fill.
There's no room for him to get PT, what with all the minutes Shaka will be playing 18 at point guard.
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2026, 09:27:15 AMThere's no room for him to get PT, what with all the minutes Shaka will be playing 18 at point guard.
If he's got a sparkle in his eye, bro may get some run.
Shaka The World?
Consider me Shocked.
#LastYear
I have no idea how much stock to put into this but Dodds mentions that "Marquette may not be finished adding to next season's roster just yet. Stay tuned" in the observations section of the 247 Crowdis post.
I'm assuming he is much closer to the MU program than the average Scooper. Does this mean something?
Quote from: The Sultan on May 18, 2026, 09:15:46 AMI am willing to be surprised, but I think a lot of people are talking themselves into a larger role next year for this guy than he is actually going to fill.
100% share your sentiment here. He is a zero star kid who has not played consistently against the top competition - because he was in Canada most of his life.
Zero stars have not panned out to date for Shaka. I realize he is not a big, but color me surprised if he gets more than 5-7 min a game and has a very minimal impact his first year.
Quote from: SchnitzelBoy on May 18, 2026, 09:51:27 AMI have no idea how much stock to put into this but Dodds mentions that "Marquette may not be finished adding to next season's roster just yet. Stay tuned" in the observations section of the 247 Crowdis post.
I'm assuming he is much closer to the MU program than the average Scooper. Does this mean something?
Why would you ever stop recruiting?
Quote from: SchnitzelBoy on May 18, 2026, 09:51:27 AMI have no idea how much stock to put into this but Dodds mentions that "Marquette may not be finished adding to next season's roster just yet. Stay tuned" in the observations section of the 247 Crowdis post.
I'm assuming he is much closer to the MU program than the average Scooper. Does this mean something?
Reclass big or some type of big of some sort I would imagine...
Quote from: SchnitzelBoy on May 18, 2026, 09:51:27 AMI have no idea how much stock to put into this but Dodds mentions that "Marquette may not be finished adding to next season's roster just yet. Stay tuned" in the observations section of the 247 Crowdis post.
I'm assuming he is much closer to the MU program than the average Scooper. Does this mean something?
Marquette "may not" be finished adding to next season's roster ... which of course also means that Marquette "may" be finished adding to next season's roster.
Credit the man with another foolproof prediction!
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 18, 2026, 09:14:52 AMI wish I could say I'm 100% on this, but I'm not. Feel pretty good about it though:
Bridgton has historically been a one year, post-grad spot. However, I think in recent years they've added some 'high school seniors' with an option for a one or two-year program. That appears to be the case with CC -- a natural 2026 kid, who went to Bridgton to finish his natural senior year. Perhaps a situation where he'd had given thought to a post-grad year if he didn't find Marquette Money.
Question is if this impacting the level of recruiting by the masses or there was... something else.
With the Canadian exchange rate we got him at a 25% discount.
CC actually says why his was a late recruiting process. (Hint: showed patience).
But, to find out, you need to read the interview on the Dodds board.
Quote from: The Sultan on May 18, 2026, 09:15:46 AMI am willing to be surprised, but I think a lot of people are talking themselves into a larger role next year for this guy than he is actually going to fill.
Yeah, 99% chance this guy is not playing 10 mpg as a true freshman. And if he is, something probably went very wrong.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 18, 2026, 10:08:30 AMWith the Canadian exchange rate we got him at a 25% discount.
So that explains why we won't be bringing in any Euros...
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 18, 2026, 09:54:09 AMWhy would you ever stop recruiting?
Because we have Caedin for 2 more years
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 18, 2026, 11:02:27 AMSo that explains why we won't be bringing in any Euros...
Following this train of thought - why aren't we bringing in some African aircraft carriers then?
Quote from: MUbiz on May 18, 2026, 09:53:34 AM100% share your sentiment here. He is a zero star kid who has not played consistently against the top competition - because he was in Canada most of his life.
Zero stars have not panned out to date for Shaka. I realize he is not a big, but color me surprised if he gets more than 5-7 min a game and has a very minimal impact his first year.
Guess this is where in practice he has to show he has the skill and then be a high IQ player on the court when he has the opportunity to get in a game. Maybe become a Jimmy Butler.
Quote from: MUbiz on May 18, 2026, 09:53:34 AM100% share your sentiment here. He is a zero star kid who has not played consistently against the top competition - because he was in Canada most of his life.
Zero stars have not panned out to date for Shaka. I realize he is not a big, but color me surprised if he gets more than 5-7 min a game and has a very minimal impact his first year.
I would normally share your skepticism, but the fact Slick Rick brought him in for an OV tells me the kid has BE level talent.
This isn't a late bloomer whom Big West schools in his backyard weren't interested in.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on May 18, 2026, 12:31:28 PMI would normally share your skepticism, but the fact Slick Rick brought him in for an OV tells me the kid has BE level talent.
This isn't a late bloomer whom Big West schools in his backyard weren't interested in.
His coach at Bridgton played for Saint Johns and according to many SJU fans, it was a courtesy visit. It was not because Slick Rick was super serious.
Quote from: MUbiz on May 18, 2026, 12:59:08 PMHis coach at Bridgton played for Saint Johns and according to many SJU fans, it was a courtesy visit. It was not because Slick Rick was super serious.
so Slick cooled on him?
Quote from: The Sultan on May 18, 2026, 09:15:46 AMI am willing to be surprised, but I think a lot of people are talking themselves into a larger role next year for this guy than he is actually going to fill.
Ideally he doesn't play much unless he surprises, but he's still an important add to provide PG depth in case something happens.
Colton Crowdis is the son of a man named Bill Crowdis. Extensive basketball playing and coaching career in Canada. Worth a Google of his own to give an idea of CC's background.
So, coach's kid. Whose dad also has a history of placing Canadian players in US schools and colleges.
Add in the context of CC's interview and it appears this is another player and family who were sold on the culture.
I predict that when the longer version of this recruiting story gets told...
Wasn't getting the exposure he wanted in Canada.
Went to Bridgton to increase exposure and not be too far from home.
Had low-mid major sniffs-offers.
Blew up late with some of those videos, as well as big numbers and anecdotes of holding his own against big name recruits.
With his father's background, was wise enough to stay patient, wait for the first wave of portal signings to recede, then went and found a good fit.
Quote from: tower912 on May 18, 2026, 01:27:39 PMColton Crowdis is the son of a man named Bill Crowdis. Extensive basketball playing and coaching career in Canada. Worth a Google of his own to give an idea of CC's background.
So, coach's kid. Whose dad also has a history of placing Canadian players in US schools and colleges.
Add in the context of CC's interview and it appears this is another player and family who were sold on the culture.
His dad's Youtube channel is just a bunch of highlight videos of CC going back to 7th grade.
Videos obviously don't tell the full story, but you can paint a picture. CC has the height, the attitude, and the skills to be a productive player. Can he find consistency and efficiency? Can he play defense?
I'd be surprised if he's not a solid to good player. But no idea what to expect this year.
Quote from: tower912 on May 18, 2026, 02:00:37 PMBlew up late with some of those videos, as well as big numbers and anecdotes of holding his own against big name recruits.
I suppose everyone's definition of 'blowing up' is different...
Ah.
If Nigel suffers an injury that keeps him out of games, we're effed. It was always gonna be that way. We weren't gonna go into the portal and snag a good PG who'd have been willing to play backup minutes.
But if Nigel gets in a little foul trouble and we need somebody to play 3-5 minutes and keep things moving, hopefully CC can do it - especially as the season goes on and he gets acclimated. Here's hoping, anyway.
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2026, 05:53:41 PMIf Nigel suffers an injury that keeps him out of games, we're effed. It was always gonna be that way. We weren't gonna go into the portal and snag a good PG who'd have been willing to play backup minutes.
But if Nigel gets in a little foul trouble and we need somebody to play 3-5 minutes and keep things moving, hopefully CC can do it - especially as the season goes on and he gets acclimated. Here's hoping, anyway.
Adrien and Nolan should be able to give him a breather as well.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on May 18, 2026, 07:01:33 PMAdrien and Nolan should be able to give him a breather as well.
Yessir. For the upcoming season, CC is a depth piece. That's how I'm looking at it, anyway.
If he gets a couple minutes each half in some games like Norman did, I can't imagine him doing any worse, at least offensively.
Inexcusable by Shaka, we need All Big East backups to our All Big East players... no drop-offs...
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2026, 05:53:41 PMIf Nigel suffers an injury that keeps him out of games, we're effed. It was always gonna be that way. We weren't gonna go into the portal and snag a good PG who'd have been willing to play backup minutes.
But if Nigel gets in a little foul trouble and we need somebody to play 3-5 minutes and keep things moving, hopefully CC can do it - especially as the season goes on and he gets acclimated. Here's hoping, anyway.
Can anyone confirm if the X account "MUFaskBreak" is legit or just a troll?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on May 18, 2026, 08:57:32 PMCan anyone confirm if the X account "MUFaskBreak" is legit or just a troll?
The least accurate Twitter account I have seen
Quote from: jfp61 on May 18, 2026, 09:08:43 PMThe least accurate Twitter account I have seen
Thank you! felt it might be total crap, Thus i didn't post the BS they were putting out there
Finley Bizjack comparison?
The Ben Steele interview shows the kid is not lacking in confidence and has quite the chip on his shoulder.
Quote from: tower912 on May 20, 2026, 08:56:23 AMFinley Bizjack comparison?
The Ben Steele interview shows the kid is not lacking in confidence and has quite the chip on his shoulder.
Second biggest, baddest mfr in the BEast!
If Colton Crowdis becomes Finley Bizjack by his soph season that would be massive. I don't know when to expect Nigel's NBA process to start but I think it could be as early as 2027. CC could be the long-term replacement for Nigel at PG.
It's impossible to tell if this kid is a project or not at this point but I like that he's a combo guard to give him more of a path to minutes. It's hard to view anyone as more than a 1-year contract for MU, but I think Shaka's policies towards retention will keep wholesale roster turnover from happening most seasons.
I don't view Nigel as an NBA prospect. 6'0" guards with questionable shots are very much out of vogue.
Nigel is more valuable in the college game, where he stands to make more money over the next three years. Which is hopefully a win-win for both Nigel and Marquette.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 20, 2026, 12:14:41 PMI don't view Nigel as an NBA prospect. 6'0" guards with questionable shots are very much out of vogue.
Nigel is more valuable in the college game, where he stands to make more money over the next three years. Which is hopefully a win-win for both Nigel and Marquette.
I don't view him as a draft or early entrant prospect, but I could see him being the rare 6-foot player that makes the NBA because he does have really impressive athleticism. He would need to develop a consistent three point shot and improve his passing, but if he can add a couple NBA level skills, that athleticism could help him catch on for a bit.
The next four years, however, college will definitely be more lucrative for him.
If he doesn't play as #45 we riot.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on May 20, 2026, 12:14:41 PMI don't view Nigel as an NBA prospect. 6'0" guards with questionable shots are very much out of vogue.
Nigel is more valuable in the college game, where he stands to make more money over the next three years. Which is hopefully a win-win for both Nigel and Marquette.
If by three you mean four aina
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 20, 2026, 12:51:27 PMI don't view him as a draft or early entrant prospect, but I could see him being the rare 6-foot player that makes the NBA because he does have really impressive athleticism. He would need to develop a consistent three point shot and improve his passing, but if he can add a couple NBA level skills, that athleticism could help him catch on for a bit.
The next four years, however, college will definitely be more lucrative for him.
I don't disagree, but he's on a long historical list of undersized college PGs "who can make it in the NBA if only they can shoot and pass better."
Quote from: MU82 on May 20, 2026, 07:57:59 PMI don't disagree, but he's on a long historical list of undersized college PGs "who can make it in the NBA if only they can shoot and pass better."
Yeah, but I think you're better off when it's teachable skills that are lacking. You can't teach that athleticism.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 20, 2026, 10:10:53 PMYeah, but I think you're better off when it's teachable skills that are lacking. You can't teach that athleticism.
If you can teach shooting and passing, then what happened with our Junior class? Why didn't Ben improve to be a more consistent shooter?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 21, 2026, 07:32:59 AMIf you can teach shooting and passing, then what happened with our Junior class? Why didn't Ben improve to be a more consistent shooter?
Ben didn't need to improve. He was very good shooter as a Junior. He just needed not to get dramatically worse. Injuries can do that to a player.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 21, 2026, 07:32:59 AMIf you can teach shooting and passing, then what happened with our Junior class? Why didn't Ben improve to be a more consistent shooter?
Ben's 3P% from his freshman through senior seasons:
30%
35.9%
37.1%
26.4%
Notice a positive trend and then a very unexpected outcome? So if the staff gets blame for last season do they get credit for his improvement his first three seasons?
This wasn't on the staff and there's no way Shaka could have anticipated that regression.
As TAMU said, it's likely health played a role.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 21, 2026, 08:16:27 AMBen didn't need to improve. He was very good shooter as a Junior. He just needed not to get dramatically worse. Injuries can do that to a player.
He needed to expand his game outside of three point shooting if he wasn't going to hit 40% from there. He was never good enough to be a one trick pony from the outside.
Gold did expand his game, driving to the hoop way more often last season than he had earlier in his Marquette career. He took 63% more 2-point shots as a senior (2.6 per game) than he did as a junior (1.6), and made 70% more 2-point FGA as a senior (1.7) than he did as a junior (1.0). He also made 66% of his 2-point attempts as a senior compared to 60% as a junior. Now, one could argue that he still didn't take it to the hoop enough, but it would be inaccurate to say he didn't "expand his game."
Unfortunately, his 3-point shooting ability - which separated him from other Big East bigs - abandoned him last season, whether due to injuries, lack of confidence or something else. That limited both his offensive production and MU's offensive potential.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 21, 2026, 10:08:17 AMHe needed to expand his game outside of three point shooting if he wasn't going to hit 40% from there. He was never good enough to be a one trick pony from the outside.
Maybe he was really good in practice and bad in the games. We seemed to have quite a bit of that
Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2026, 10:16:49 AMGold did expand his game, driving to the hoop way more often last season than he had earlier in his Marquette career. He took 63% more 2-point shots as a senior (2.6 per game) than he did as a junior (1.6), and made 70% more 2-point FGA as a senior (1.7) than he did as a junior (1.0). He also made 66% of his 2-point attempts as a senior compared to 60% as a junior. Now, one could argue that he still didn't take it to the hoop enough, but it would be inaccurate to say he didn't "expand his game."
Unfortunately, his 3-point shooting ability - which separated him from other Big East bigs - abandoned him last season, whether due to injuries, lack of confidence or something else. That limited both his offensive production and MU's offensive potential.
Well, that's the point: he didn't take it to the hoop enough. For four years this staff treated him like he was a deep ball sharpshooter, which he wasn't. He was never good enough from outside for the majority of his game to just be hanging around the perimeter waiting for a kick out.
And for the first year and a half, that looked like what they expected from Parham, who shot less than 30% from deep. It was maddening. And then in the second half they started feeding him the ball inside, his spin move developed, and he became a great piece to build on paired with Nigel. He'll still take threes, but that's not the focus of his game anymore. The same should have been tried with Ben. Better late than never, I suppose.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 21, 2026, 10:43:27 AMWell, that's the point: he didn't take it to the hoop enough. For four years this staff treated him like he was a deep ball sharpshooter, which he wasn't. He was never good enough from outside for the majority of his game to just be hanging around the perimeter waiting for a kick out.
And for the first year and a half, that looked like what they expected from Parham, who shot less than 30% from deep. It was maddening. And then in the second half they started feeding him the ball inside, his spin move developed, and he became a great piece to build on paired with Nigel. He'll still take threes, but that's not the focus of his game anymore. The same should have been tried with Ben. Better late than never, I suppose.
37% is "good" for a college 3-point shooter, and very good for a college big. Any coaching staff would want to take advantage of that ability.
Sure, it would have been great if Gold had gone to the basket more, because he actually got pretty good at it by the time he was a senior. He obviously was not comfortable as a post-up player, though.
Parham has a better all-around offensive game than Gold; they're just different players. He got better overall as last season progressed, partly because Shaka woke up, put him in the starting lineup and gave him more PT.
Parham shot .387 from 3 in 20 Big East games - Marquette would have been foolish to not have taken advantage of that ability. He also shot .667 from 2. It was great seeing him grow his offensive game, which isn't that unusual for a good player in his sophomore season.
Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2026, 11:48:59 AM37% is "good" for a college 3-point shooter, and very good for a college big. Any coaching staff would want to take advantage of that ability.
Sure, it would have been great if Gold had gone to the basket more, because he actually got pretty good at it by the time he was a senior. He obviously was not comfortable as a post-up player, though.
1/4th of his career being 'good' while also being one dimensional isn't good. Half of his career he was pretty bad at it. Within the offense he was treated like he was Steve Novak.
You're right, he wasn't half bad inside the paint. Why the staff never shifted his game toward that certainly left me miffed.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 21, 2026, 12:47:07 PM1/4th of his career being 'good' while also being one dimensional isn't good. Half of his career he was pretty bad at it. Within the offense he was treated like he was Steve Novak.
You're right, he wasn't half bad inside the paint. Why the staff never shifted his game toward that certainly left me miffed.
Yes, he was no Steve Novak.
Congrats on getting to be miffed.
Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2026, 10:16:49 AMHe took 63% more 2-point shots as a senior (2.6 per game) than he did as a junior (1.6), and made 70% more 2-point FGA as a senior (1.7) than he did as a junior (1.0).
What a bizarre analysis. He certainly had a shift from 3FGA to 2FGA, and got to the line at a better rate.. but "63% more 2-point shots" using rounded per game averages is quite bizarre. I know you're smarter than this.
His 3FGA/FGA fell from 72.2% as a junior to 63.6% as a senior. His FTrate rose to 22.3% (still pedestrian for his size), up from 16.7% as a junior.
Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2026, 11:48:59 AMParham shot .387 from 3 in 20 Big East games - Marquette would have been foolish to not have taken advantage of that ability. He also shot .667 from 2. It was great seeing him grow his offensive game, which isn't that unusual for a good player in his sophomore season.
#FakeNews #Lies
Where'd game 20 against a conference foe happen? Also, check your math on the .667 from 2.
Let the record note that Royce's %Shots dropped from his frosh year -- both for the full season and conference play. Thankfully, this was impacted by him getting to the line a ton more (which is great despite a 65.0% ft%.. side note 0- #FTsNoMatta).
We saw a large drop in his 3FGA/FGA as a soph... 57.4% as a fr.. to 37.2%.. maybe MU was 'foolish'?
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 21, 2026, 02:10:39 PM#FakeNews #Lies
Where'd game 20 against a conference foe happen? Also, check your math on the .667 from 2.
Let the record note that Royce's %Shots dropped from his frosh year -- both for the full season and conference play. Thankfully, this was impacted by him getting to the line a ton more (which is great despite a 65.0% ft%.. side note 0- #FTsNoMatta).
We saw a large drop in his 3FGA/FGA as a soph... 57.4% as a fr.. to 37.2%.. maybe MU was 'foolish'?
20 games vs Big East opponents last season, including BET. And in those games, .667 from 2 and .387 from 3. At least according to Sports Reference.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/royce-parham-1/splits/2026/
The Gold stats were correct, too. Sorry/not sorry if you don't like them.
I'll accept your revisionist history.
Also, if he gets somewhat healthy I want a waiver for Ben to play 1 more year.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 21, 2026, 04:38:34 PMI'll accept your revisionist history.
Also, if he gets somewhat healthy I want a waiver for Ben to play 1 more year.
I'd take this as well.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 21, 2026, 04:38:34 PMI'll accept your revisionist history.
Thanks for accepting the facts exactly as I presented them. In turn, I accept your apology.
Quote from: MU82 on May 21, 2026, 06:25:30 PMThanks for accepting the facts exactly as I presented them. In turn, I accept your apology.
I eff up occasionally. I owe you a beer.
Hey, how about that Colton Crowdis?
If he is going to be at MU, he is going to have to get used to threads about him going in completely random directions.
Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2026, 06:58:54 PMIf he is going to be at MU, he is going to have to get used to threads about him going in completely random directions.
Hopefully he's smart enough to never seek out those threads........
Preach.
Quote from: tower912 on May 21, 2026, 06:58:54 PMIf he is going to be at MU, he is going to have to get used to threads about him going in completely random directions.
Hopefully most of his passes don't go in completely random directions, amirite?
Quote from: MuMark on May 21, 2026, 07:16:30 PMHopefully he's smart enough to never seek out those threads........
Based on his social media likes, I'm guessing if he finds his way here, he'll live in them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6swCm7FlNXc
Quote from: NCMUFan on May 23, 2026, 09:24:46 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6swCm7FlNXc
Very low start on his 3 point shots. Might be easier to block. Accurate looks like tho
NJ also has imperfect form.
Quote from: Daniel on May 24, 2026, 08:35:41 PMVery low start on his 3 point shots. Might be easier to block. Accurate looks like tho
He's 12 years old in that video.
On campus as of today with the other recruits.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 01, 2026, 11:05:04 AMOn campus as of today with the other recruits.
But I thought he hadn't officially signed yet?!
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 01, 2026, 11:05:04 AMOn campus as of today with the other recruits.
Hope Willie isn't there
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 01, 2026, 11:53:59 AMBut I thought he hadn't officially signed yet?!
Could he have just officially signed over the weekend? If he actually signed earlier, bizarre that Shaka didn't at least briefly mention him in his press conference.
Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2026, 02:58:59 PMCould he have just officially signed over the weekend? If he actually signed earlier, bizarre that Shaka didn't at least briefly mention him in his press conference.
Tempering expectations of the many Scoopers slotting him for double digit mpg?
#COLE
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 01, 2026, 03:26:25 PMTempering expectations of the many Scoopers slotting him for double digit mpg?
#COLE
Yeah, I think some of the predictions about Crowdis are going to look pretty funny ten months from now.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 01, 2026, 03:26:25 PMTempering expectations of the many Scoopers slotting him for double digit mpg?
#COLE
I never felt he was going to make an impact in his first year, but I feel like he will get very very little run if any at all. Moreso now that Shaka has basically not said one word about him.
Just got an email response from Ben Steele on this. He confirms that Crowdis was brought in as a practice player and says who knows if he can develop into anything more.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 01, 2026, 03:26:25 PMTempering expectations of the many Scoopers slotting him for double digit mpg?
#COLE
Unannounced commitments will typically be the guys closer to the Jonah Lucas end of the career spectrum than the Chase Ross end, to use two recent grads as potential comparables.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 01, 2026, 04:11:55 PMJust got an email response from Ben Steele on this. He confirms that Crowdis was brought in as a practice player and says who knows if he can develop into anything more.
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/kPUjaQpRwUsAAAAC/well-there-it-is.gif)
So were the other programs looking at him as a practice player only?
SJU was
Thanks for the responses, all.
I believe Shaka even mentioned a returning walk-on, so I still find it odd that he didn't mention Crowdis.
But I have not been in the group of Scoopers expecting anything from the kid.
Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2026, 04:58:54 PMThanks for the responses, all.
I believe Shaka even mentioned a returning walk-on, so I still find it odd that he didn't mention Crowdis.
But I have not been in the group of Scoopers expecting anything from the kid.
I expect academic excellence, a strong work ethic, and growth.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 01, 2026, 06:17:11 PMI expect academic excellence, a strong work ethic, and growth.
At least we got a deal on him - only paying him $1.1M.
PS - dodds claimed SJU 'came off' Crowdis because of their point guard signing three weeks before the kid "visited" SJU.
PPS - Sheek was irked by the prospects of 18 getting a lot of his minutes.
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 01, 2026, 04:11:55 PMJust got an email response from Ben Steele on this. He confirms that Crowdis was brought in as a practice player and says who knows if he can develop into anything more.
What if he's the hardest worker in practice? Will he play?
So no true back up ball handler/playmaker. And no backup 4/5. Interesting. Shaka hoping for zero injuries at the 1 and 5 positions.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 01, 2026, 06:17:11 PMI expect academic excellence, a strong work ethic, and growth.
What, no relationships?
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 01, 2026, 08:41:26 PMSo no true back up ball handler/playmaker. And no backup 4/5. Interesting. Shaka hoping for zero injuries at the 1 and 5 positions.
He's got HIS backup at the 5.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 01, 2026, 06:58:54 PMAt least we got a deal on him - only paying him $1.1M.
PS - dodds claimed SJU 'came off' Crowdis because of their point guard signing three weeks before the kid "visited" SJU.
PPS - Sheek was irked by the prospects of 18 getting a lot of his minutes.
You should be capitalizing "Dodds" due to a name being a proper noun.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 01, 2026, 09:07:33 PMYou should be capitalizing "Dodds" due to a name being a proper noun.
No. It was absolutely intentional and reasonable.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 01, 2026, 08:41:26 PMSo no true back up ball handler/playmaker. And no backup 4/5. Interesting. Shaka hoping for zero injuries at the 1 and 5 positions.
I'm going to wait to hear from well-embedded moles before deciding whether to worry about frontcourt depth.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 01, 2026, 08:41:26 PMSo no true back up ball handler/playmaker. And no backup 4/5. Interesting. Shaka hoping for zero injuries at the 1 and 5 positions.
If our 1 gets hurt, we're royally effed. And no backup PG in the portal woulda changed that.
Quote from: MU82 on June 01, 2026, 10:04:53 PMIf our 1 gets hurt, we're royally effed. And no backup PG in the portal woulda changed that.
That's not guaranteed. If he misses 10-20 games at the end of the season, sure. If he has a 4-game stretch with a manageable schedule in that time, a competent backup portal combo guard could easily be the difference between 3-1 and 1-3.
Adding depth is never a guarantee, it is an insurance policy. We're electing to drive without coverage at the two most important positions on the floor, hoping our health will work out like 2023. And personally, I don't consider hope to be a strategy.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 01, 2026, 10:31:39 PMThat's not guaranteed. If he misses 10-20 games at the end of the season, sure. If he has a 4-game stretch with a manageable schedule in that time, a competent backup portal combo guard could easily be the difference between 3-1 and 1-3.
Adding depth is never a guarantee, it is an insurance policy. We're electing to drive without coverage at the two most important positions on the floor, hoping our health will work out like 2023. And personally, I don't consider hope to be a strategy.
Can't argue with most of that. So, we should have gotten a true combo with true PG skills instead of Minessale?
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2026, 01:11:33 AMCan't argue with most of that. So, we should have gotten a true combo with true PG skills instead of Minessale?
Not instead of, in addition to. Just like we should've added another big in addition to what we had once Sheek left.
Here's my rough expectation for starter minutes:
PG - NJ 30
SG - Stevens 25
SF - Minessale 28
PF - Parham 28
C - Fru 25
That leaves us with an expectation of 37 minutes at the 1-3 and 27 minutes in the front court. I'm sure we'll get some overlap, Nolan sliding to the 1, Parham moving to the 5, etc. But in general, we're going to need 2-3 players to pick up the back court and 1-2 to pick up the front court.
Hopefully Owens and Phillips can take some of that, possibly both back court and front court, but there's 15-20 minutes for a guard to slot in and I'm not confident that Nash Walker is that guy. I worry about the minutes Fru is off the court and while Parham might help, another big to pair with those two when one is off the court really would've helped because right now, Hamilton and Clark are it, and last year the staff made it clear by the end of the year they didn't trust either of them to play significant minutes.
Egbuonu might help, but I don't love trusting freshmen. Similar thoughts on Miletic, Walker, and Johnston. I have zero expectations for Crowdis. Really feels right now like a 7-man rotation, which is fine once you get to March, but difficult to make it through the 32 games before postseason tourneys start.
Can't make quality players transfer to MU with offers of reserve minutes and reserve pay.
Bottom line, I think this is where we saw the staff's inexperience in the portal shine through. They went in with a plan to add a big man, a wing, and a combo guard. But when Tylen Riley went elsewhere and Sheek Pearson entered the portal, they didn't have backup plans to solidify the bench.
They wanted to add depth, but convinced themselves it wasn't worth it and painted themselves into the corner of "it's too late, and is anyone out there really any better than Caedin" which leaves us at risk if we have injuries to significant players.
Kam and Stevie were never fully healthy down the stretch in 2025. Tyler missed six games in 2024. We saw what happened with a run-down Howard in 2019. Little injuries happen and a competent bench is often the difference between successfully weathering those stretches and collapsing in critical stretches of the season. I would've liked to see better planning in that regard.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 07:10:04 AMCan't make quality players transfer to MU with offers of reserve minutes and reserve pay.
And yet other programs can? We weren't the only team that needed to add depth. LSU and NC State added depth pieces that would've benefitted us. Providence and Seton Hall grabbed guys late that would've helped us.
There are guys that won't be starting elsewhere that could've been pursued by Marquette, but once Sheek left, we basically played turtle and pulled into our shell within a few days. If you're going to be active in the portal, which is what the staff statement ahead of the Xavier game said, then you need to continue to be active through the difficult times of missing out on players and losing others.
Brew's minute projections are a bit light. MU's leader in minutes per game under Shaka is typically around 32-33 mpg. So he's underselling Nigel about 2-3 mpg.
He's also projecting Royce and Adrien to each average 1 mpg less than they played last year. I'd be surprised if that was the case, especially considering both averaged north of 30 mpg in BE play.
I'd project:
Nigel 32.5
Adrien 28
Nolan 29.5
Royce 30.5
Fru 27
There's just no excuse for not adding depth in the portal era and with our open scholarship situation. There's no guarantee we'll get players who can come in and succeed, but you have to at least fill out the roster and give it a shot. Feels like we're once again handicapping ourselves for no discernible reason.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 07:10:04 AMCan't make quality players transfer to MU with offers of reserve minutes and reserve pay.
That's a 180, basketball strategy wise (down to your core, you know a back up ballhandler/playmaker was needed. You said so 1000 times). But not a 180 from an oh well, we did what we could do. I'm sure Shaka did everything he could wise.
When analysis on this board turns from strategy to resignation and rationalization it leads to hundreds of pages of circular arguments.
Because they are not getting the backups necessary, the ceiling for this team has been lowered. I am resigned to this fact but will not rationalize it to be a good thing or rationalize that it could not have happened.
Here I was worried we had too many people and not enough minutes
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 07:10:04 AMCan't make quality players transfer to MU with offers of reserve minutes and reserve pay.
We most certainly could have gotten better front court options than the two back-ups we have now.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 02, 2026, 09:10:55 AMWe most certainly could have gotten better front court options than the two back-ups we have now.
I am too lazy to look. Names?
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 02, 2026, 08:47:23 AMHere I was worried we had too many people and not enough minutes
We have too many people who are not proven at all at this level or who haven't shown anything multiple years into their career.
We have five, experienced, plus-level players right now. James, Stevens, Royce and the two transfers.
Other than that, we have a couple who have flashed some potential. The rest are simply not at this level or are incoming freshmen.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 02, 2026, 09:13:22 AMI am too lazy to look. Names?
Get less lazy and read some of the stuff that PT wrote and brew posted.
It's good this team was so solid last season that it can add to its number of project players.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 02, 2026, 09:16:14 AMGet less lazy and read some of the stuff that PT wrote and brew posted.
I did read the PT article, which said this: The answers so far haven't matched to what Marquette is looking for. There simply weren't many true bigs in the portal this year, let alone late in the game, and that scarcity drove prices and desperation up.
I couldn't find any actual names for viable options-ones with decent stats who were willing to be a backup-direct me there if you could.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on June 02, 2026, 09:42:05 AMIt's good this team was so solid last season that it can add to its number of project practice players.
FIFO
I'd like a bit more depth, but at some point you need to trust that one or two of these developmental pieces will pan out. It's not like ONLY 5-star recruits and transfers end up being good. Every year, mid-major players transfer up and end up on Final 4 squads. Many of those are ranked far behind the recruits Shaka has been getting recently. He had consecutive recruiting classes either underwhelm (3-star guys like Chase, Ben, and Sean were so injury-bitten) or bust (Al, Tre, Zaide, Caedin) which hurt the team. But you can see the caliber of recruit getting better each year where we're averaging 4-star recruits like Royce, Owens, Sheek, MPIII and Egbuonu all come with tremendous upside. If you don't see how the potential of some of these NBA bodies then you're not actually watching.
There is a world where a couple of freshmen make an unexpected splash and take this team from bubbly ceiling to tournament lock. There is a more realistic world where the freshmen are freshmen, foul trouble/injuries exist and we struggle when a modicum of depth is needed to deal with adversity. For the third year in a row, self inflicted roster building puts a cap on our success.
I think frontcourt depth will be something to watch. Josh Clark is the one we need to really to make a jump because he's 7'2" and springy. Should be adding more weight and conditioning this summer. I think we Egbuonu, MPIII and DO can fill in at the 4 because I guess they've grown a bit and are all 6'7" + adding weight. MPIII looked bigger in the recent social media post and I think he'll be able to be a reliable stretch-4. But we need 15-17 minutes at center to spot Fru. It'll be done by committee.
What will also be done by committee is backup PG. Minessale, Nash, Adrien, and Colton Crowdis are our options. I think Minessale is the best option because we have plenty of options at SF. When I look at PG and SG, we need as many of those 80 minutes covered by Nigel, Minessale, and Adrien as possible. I'm hoping Nash (recovering from injury but practicing) and give us minutes next season and handle the ball + hit threes.
Here's where some of the criticism is frankly ridiculous. "What if Nigel gets hurt? Why don't we have a superstar backup PG?" Basically NO ONE has that... Close to ZERO teams have enough depth to cover losing their best player.
BUT I do see a world where Nigel can miss a few games and Marquette rolls with lineups with Minessale and Adrien at the PG where our squad might be able to hang with lower level Big East teams and even scrap a win. That would also require big games from Royce, Damarius, MPIII, and Fru but that's entirely possible.
Quote from: SchnitzelBoy on June 02, 2026, 10:09:49 AMI'd like a bit more depth, but at some point you need to trust that one or two of these developmental pieces will pan out. It's not like ONLY 5-star recruits and transfers end up being good. Every year, mid-major players transfer up and end up on Final 4 squads. Many of those are ranked far behind the recruits Shaka has been getting recently. He had consecutive recruiting classes either underwhelm (3-star guys like Chase, Ben, and Sean were so injury-bitten) or bust (Al, Tre, Zaide, Caedin) which hurt the team. But you can see the caliber of recruit getting better each year where we're averaging 4-star recruits like Royce, Owens, Sheek, MPIII and Egbuonu all come with tremendous upside. If you don't see how the potential of some of these NBA bodies then you're not actually watching.
Yes, I am glad after 17 years of being a head coach, six of which have been at Marquette, that Shaka is finally figuring out how to recruit.
Choosing 18 over Sheek is dangerous but not surprising from SS. It is what it is (insane).
Our hope is we see someone do much more than reasonably projected -- e.g., DO or Alex.
Otherwise...
#LastYear
Quote from: SchnitzelBoy on June 02, 2026, 10:15:00 AMHere's where some of the criticism is frankly ridiculous. "What if Nigel gets hurt? Why don't we have a superstar backup PG?" Basically NO ONE has that... Close to ZERO teams have enough depth to cover losing their best player.
Literally no one has said this.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 02, 2026, 07:21:17 AMAnd yet other programs can? We weren't the only team that needed to add depth. LSU and NC State added depth pieces that would've benefitted us. Providence and Seton Hall grabbed guys late that would've helped us.
There are guys that won't be starting elsewhere that could've been pursued by Marquette, but once Sheek left, we basically played turtle and pulled into our shell within a few days. If you're going to be active in the portal, which is what the staff statement ahead of the Xavier game said, then you need to continue to be active through the difficult times of missing out on players and losing others.
If only college basketball programs could employ a person to oversee portal strategies, player compensation and roster logistics, and create action plans to address a range scenarios, so that the coaching staff wouldn't be caught unprepared and unable to react when the unexpected inevitably occurs.
They could call this person ... oh, I don't know, the manager of general things?
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 02, 2026, 07:16:34 AMBottom line, I think this is where we saw the staff's inexperience in the portal shine through. They went in with a plan to add a big man, a wing, and a combo guard. But when Tylen Riley went elsewhere and Sheek Pearson entered the portal, they didn't have backup plans to solidify the bench.
They wanted to add depth, but convinced themselves it wasn't worth it and painted themselves into the corner of "it's too late, and is anyone out there really any better than Caedin" which leaves us at risk if we have injuries to significant players.
Kam and Stevie were never fully healthy down the stretch in 2025. Tyler missed six games in 2024. We saw what happened with a run-down Howard in 2019. Little injuries happen and a competent bench is often the difference between successfully weathering those stretches and collapsing in critical stretches of the season. I would've liked to see better planning in that regard.
Tylen and Nolan were always an either/or not a both/and.
The staff didn't sit on their hands after Sheek left. They targeted multiple transfers. They determined that most weren't fits/ weren't better than what we have, and the few that were wanted far more money than wear the staff thought they were worth. We'll see if their evaluations end up being right.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 11:34:19 AMIf only college basketball programs could employ a person to oversee portal strategies, player compensation and roster logistics, and create action plans to address a range scenarios, so that the coaching staff wouldn't be caught unprepared and unable to react when the unexpected inevitably occurs.
They could call this person ... oh, I don't know, the manager of general things?
The good thing is it sounds like Marquette employs that person under a different title.
I'd imagine Fru plays 30 mpg against high majors. Royce moves over to the 5 for 5-7 mpg when Fru is on the bench.
An injury to your potential BE POY is always going to make wins hard to get. There are enough ball handlers on this team that I'm not worried about the 7 mpg Nigel goes to the bench, at least in terms of getting into the offense.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 02, 2026, 07:16:34 AMBottom line, I think this is where we saw the staff's inexperience in the portal shine through. They went in with a plan to add a big man, a wing, and a combo guard. But when Tylen Riley went elsewhere and Sheek Pearson entered the portal, they didn't have backup plans to solidify the bench.
They wanted to add depth, but convinced themselves it wasn't worth it and painted themselves into the corner of "it's too late, and is anyone out there really any better than Caedin" which leaves us at risk if we have injuries to significant players.
Kam and Stevie were never fully healthy down the stretch in 2025. Tyler missed six games in 2024. We saw what happened with a run-down Howard in 2019. Little injuries happen and a competent bench is often the difference between successfully weathering those stretches and collapsing in critical stretches of the season. I would've liked to see better planning in that regard.
They miss evaluated the talent on their own roster again this year.
They don't self scout hard enough.
Great programs are running bad players off faster.
At least owens and hamilton stay in their bench roles. And we see if phillips,
egbuonu, walker, or miletic are good enough to play last years bench less.
Quote from: brewcity77 on June 02, 2026, 07:21:17 AMAnd yet other programs can? We weren't the only team that needed to add depth. LSU and NC State added depth pieces that would've benefitted us. Providence and Seton Hall grabbed guys late that would've helped us.
There are guys that won't be starting elsewhere that could've been pursued by Marquette, but once Sheek left, we basically played turtle and pulled into our shell within a few days. If you're going to be active in the portal, which is what the staff statement ahead of the Xavier game said, then you need to continue to be active through the difficult times of missing out on players and losing others.
Who did LSU grab that isn't starting or would help us? Bashir and Ugochukwu are going to start, Nunez isn't a high major player.
Who did NC State grab that would help us? Jacari Brim 1.2 ppg at app state? Comeh Emuobor whose BPR is 2 points lower than Hamilton's?
Seton Hall? I think Wol and Williams are going to start for them. Nwuli, maybe you grab him on potential, but on paper, he's not as good as Owens, Phillips, or Egbuono.
Providence, Bannarbie looks like a great depth piece for PC. Good on them. If Hodgson stays at PC (big if I think)...they could be a lot of trouble.
I'm not trying to claim that there were zero players out there who may have accepted a bench role and may have been good enough to help us, that's not true. But it's not true that we "played turtle." Those guys were identified and talked to. They either weren't a match for what we were looking for or their salary demands were beyond what we were willing to give them.
Some coaches thrive in environments where their relationships with their players is strictly a business relationship. Our coach isn't that. That's not a judgement good or bad. It's just an acknowledgement that different coaches succeed in different ways. Our coach for better or worse, succeeds by recruiting players who buy into his style of coaching/culture. He's never going to be a guy who recruits a guy solely because of his basketball talent. If he did, he wouldn't be successful. Again, I don't care how a coach does it, I just want to win and not be in the newspaper for the wrong reasons. But expecting Shaka to coach in a way that he can't be successful just doesn't make sense.
Quote from: jfp61 on June 02, 2026, 12:31:34 PMThey miss evaluated the talent on their own roster again this year.
They don't self scout hard enough.
Great programs are running bad players off faster.
At least owens and hamilton stay in their bench roles. And we see if phillips,
egbuonu, walker, or miletic are good enough to play last years bench less.
The season doesn't start for 5 months and you know they've already misevaluated?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 01:05:16 PMThe season doesn't start for 5 months and you know they've already misevaluated?
If they're relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game, then yeah, pretty good chance they've already misevaluated.
Maybe this is the year the long-promised big leap from Hamilton actually happens, but fool me thrice?
As one with zero inside MU hoops connections, I appreciate the conversation that brew and TAMU are having. I like and respect both of these fine Scoopers, and I am grateful to pick up some knowledge.
Pictured below, Miss Evaluated:
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.HZkubNLnMSVH-LxoRbjd3wHaIT?w=163&h=182&c=7&r=0&o=7&pid=1.7&rm=3)
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2026, 01:15:16 PMAs one with zero inside MU hoops connections, I appreciate the conversation that brew and TAMU are having. I like and respect both of these fine Scoopers, and I am grateful to pick up some knowledge.
They can't both be right -- pick one, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 01:10:25 PMIf they're relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game, then yeah, pretty good chance they've already misevaluated.
Maybe this is the year the long-promised big leap from Hamilton actually happens, but fool me thrice?
I think the only way (assuming Fru/Royce stay healthy which is an assumption) Caedin gets 10 minutes a game is if he actually does make the long-promised leap. After Christmas break, Caedin averaged 8.9 minutes a game. Which included a game that Ben missed due to injury and a game where Ben's minutes were limited due to injury. This season we have a better and healthier starting 5, a more experienced version of Royce, and more and better options at the 4 than we had last season. Caedin shouldn't get minutes out of necessity, he'll get them because he's earned them...or because there's injuries.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 01:54:46 PMI think the only way (assuming Fru/Royce stay healthy which is an assumption) Caedin gets 10 minutes a game is if he actually does make the long-promised leap. After Christmas break, Caedin averaged 8.9 minutes a game. Which included a game that Ben missed due to injury and a game where Ben's minutes were limited due to injury. This season we have a better and healthier starting 5, a more experienced version of Royce, and more and better options at the 4 than we had last season. Caedin shouldn't get minutes out of necessity, he'll get them because he's earned them...or because there's injuries.
Two/kind of three questions:
(1) Assuming he doesn't get minutes out of necessity or 'because he's earned them', how many minutes per game do you believe he'll get? (Related question: will he be regularly put into the game in the first half of games?)
(2) How does he earn minutes? (Last year it was a twinkle in his eye - is that a good reason this year as well?)
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 01:54:46 PMI think the only way (assuming Fru/Royce stay healthy which is an assumption) Caedin gets 10 minutes a game is if he actually does make the long-promised leap. After Christmas break, Caedin averaged 8.9 minutes a game. Which included a game that Ben missed due to injury and a game where Ben's minutes were limited due to injury. This season we have a better and healthier starting 5, a more experienced version of Royce, and more and better options at the 4 than we had last season. Caedin shouldn't get minutes out of necessity, he'll get them because he's earned them...or because there's injuries.
Just the fact that we have to game this out is crazy to me. I don't understand how the staff can watch Caedin play the last 2 years and not do everything in their power to improve that backup 5 spot. Why even take the chance that a negative BPR guy might be forced to play meaningful minutes? No ones ever been able to give me an actual reason.
Fru averaged 22 minutes at Louisville by the way.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 02, 2026, 08:46:58 AMThat's a 180, basketball strategy wise (down to your core, you know a back up ballhandler/playmaker was needed. You said so 1000 times). But not a 180 from an oh well, we did what we could do. I'm sure Shaka did everything he could wise.
I absolutely wanted two guards and a big. Tell me how you force them to MU for back up minutes at a back up price.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 02, 2026, 02:06:12 PMTwo/kind of three questions:
(1) Assuming he doesn't get minutes out of necessity or 'because he's earned them', how many minutes per game do you believe he'll get? (Related question: will he be regularly put into the game in the first half of games?)
(2) How does he earn minutes? (Last year it was a twinkle in his eye - is that a good reason this year as well?)
1. I'm not nearly as passionate as you about when in a game his minutes come. If the long-promised leap never comes, I think there is one specific situation where Caedin is effective. He is a competent, maybe even good, defender when matched up with big back to the basket bigs. For example, against UConn at home, he got 18 minutes and actually looked like he belonged because he could matchup with Reed and Reibe. There is a value to having a 6'9" 250 lb dude on the bench even if he's hopeless on offense.
All that to say, I think if he's the same Caedin as last season, I don't see him getting consistent minutes (without injuries). I think most games will either be DNP-CD or only a handful of minutes, but there may be some nights where the matchup is more favorable that he gets into double digits.
2. I'm not sure what "twinkle in his eyes" means. I think Caedin is one of those unfortunate players that can perform in practice but self-immolates once the bright lights are on. I think Shaka tried to force feed Caedin minutes to get him past it but eventually cried uncle. I don't think they try that again. I think Caedin will have to show he's effective in the minutes he gets against cupcakes if he's going to get significant minutes in real games.
Here's hoping the long-promised leap finally comes.
Quote from: Tha Hound on June 02, 2026, 02:54:33 PMJust the fact that we have to game this out is crazy to me. I don't understand how the staff can watch Caedin play the last 2 years and not do everything in their power to improve that backup 5 spot. Why even take the chance that a negative BPR guy might be forced to play meaningful minutes? No ones ever been able to give me an actual reason.
Fru averaged 22 minutes at Louisville by the way.
The staff watched Caedin play last year and significantly dropped his minutes. Going into the offseason, they made getting a starting 5 in the portal their biggest priority, and brought in one of the best players in the portal to do that. They anticipated having Sheek as the backup 5, and they even had an agreement from Sheek to return until SLU made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They didn't watch and think, "We're good at the 5!"
We want Shaka to play the portal game. We can't complain about Shaka not playing the portal game, and then complain when the portal game bights us in the a$$. That's part of the game.
Fru will play plenty more than 22 mpg. Louisville had players behind him that were good enough to play high major minutes at the 5. Marquette doesn't. He'll play 30+ just like Oso did his junior and senior seasons.
Exactly. Even though I am still on the minutes and lost starting role hill, money clearly played a part.
So, if you believe Sheek left for more money, it is inconsistent to say the staff should be able to, on short notice, find somebody as good or better for what Sheek was going to be paid.
The portal is a tool. It giveth, it taketh.
Quote from: Tha Hound on June 02, 2026, 02:54:33 PMJust the fact that we have to game this out is crazy to me. I don't understand how the staff can watch Caedin play the last 2 years and not do everything in their power to improve that backup 5 spot. Why even take the chance that a negative BPR guy might be forced to play meaningful minutes? No ones ever been able to give me an actual reason.
Fru averaged 22 minutes at Louisville by the way.
I think something fans forget is that the staff has watched Caedin play literally thousands more hours than we have. Game performance is the most important data point but its not the only data point.
I think you have been given an actual reason. Sheek was the answer. He was poached at the 11th hour. Staff looked for replacements but the pool was limited and came away empty.
Fru was splitting time with Aly Khalifa, a top 100 player per BPR (Fru was top 175). I think he will get at least 28 minutes a game with us. Royce will get a majority of the minutes that Fru is on the bench.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 01:54:46 PMI think the only way (assuming Fru/Royce stay healthy which is an assumption) Caedin gets 10 minutes a game is if he actually does make the long-promised leap. After Christmas break, Caedin averaged 8.9 minutes a game. Which included a game that Ben missed due to injury and a game where Ben's minutes were limited due to injury. This season we have a better and healthier starting 5, a more experienced version of Royce, and more and better options at the 4 than we had last season. Caedin shouldn't get minutes out of necessity, he'll get them because he's earned them...or because there's injuries.
I mean ... 8.9 minutes? 10ish minutes? Are we really quibbling over 65 seconds a game here? The point is, if the staff looks at CH as the primary backup in the post, I think - and all the evidence to date suggests - that's a misevaluation.
Heck, before Sheek left, everyone here would have said the same. If anyone in March had suggested Caedin should be the primary backup, not Sheek, they'd have been laughed off Scoop. All that's happened to change that is Sheek leaving, not Hamilton becoming any more capable of holding down those minutes. But now, apparently, giving those minutes back to CH is not an issue?
Fru played 22 mpg last year. I didn't watch enough Louisville to say whether that's because that was the limit of his effectiveness, or UL had a strong bench or some other reason.
But even if he can stretch that out to 28-30 mpg, that still leaves 10-12 minutes per night in the post (assuming no foul trouble). Maybe Royce can handle some of those when an opponent goes small. But based on what we saw last year, he's not a strong interior defender and any big with some post skills is going to eat against him (see Tre Carroll in the BE tournament).
So if not Caedin, where do those minutes go?
And the staff has been upfront about Fru getting as many minutes as he can handle. So, the honest sales pitch, come to MU for 8-10 minutes for the money we were going to pay Sheek.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 03:33:43 PMExactly. Even though I am still on the minutes and lost starting role hill, money clearly played a part.
So, if you believe Sheek left for more money, it is inconsistent to say the staff should be able to, on short notice, find somebody as good or better for what Sheek was going to be paid.
The portal is a tool. It giveth, it taketh.
Brew gave you four specific examples today, including two in the Big East who made late additions that could've been bench pieces.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 03:38:12 PMI think something fans forget is that the staff has watched Caedin play literally thousands more hours than we have. Game performance is the most important data point but its not the only data point.
That reminds me, but 180 degrees in the opposite direction, of Tebow. I was on the field before a Broncos game and saw Tim bouncing warm-up throws to receivers. He looked awful compared to the other Bronco QBs, but he started and look decent in the actual game.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 01:10:25 PMIf they're relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game, then yeah, pretty good chance they've already misevaluated.
Maybe this is the year the long-promised big leap from Hamilton actually happens, but fool me thrice?
Or, as multiple other people have posted, the looked at other bigs after Sheek's unexpected departure and there wasn't a fit for a variety of reasons.
So should the staff make a desperation move?
Everything is not black and white like some here seem to think.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 03:33:43 PMExactly. Even though I am still on the minutes and lost starting role hill, money clearly played a part.
So, if you believe Sheek left for more money, it is inconsistent to say the staff should be able to, on short notice, find somebody as good or better for what Sheek was going to be paid.
The portal is a tool. It giveth, it taketh.
It's not a matter of finding someone better than Sheek, especially since none of us know how good he is. It's a matter of finding someone better than Caedin and Josh, which doesn't seem the portal equivalent of climbing Everest.
Let's say Shaka screwed this up. He could have gotten a decent backup big but didn't because he was too late, or too short on funds, or too stubborn, or too beholden to "fit" and "culture," or too (fill in the blank).
Shaka certainly has been far from perfect as a recruiter, portal user and talent evaluator. So, for the sake of argument, I'll agree he somehow screwed it up.
You know what ... it's over! So either we can keep b!tching about it and assessing blame and whining and speculating ... or we can, I don't know, wait to see what actually happens?
Yeah, I know. I must be new here.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 03:54:30 PMIt's not a matter of finding someone better than Sheek, especially since none of us know how good he is. It's a matter of finding someone better than Caedin and Josh, which doesn't seem the portal equivalent of climbing Everest.
And having them willing to play bench minutes for a lower price.
Same thing at PG. Sales pitch: We have a sophomore star in the making who we anticipate playing 30 mpg. Are you interested in backing up for a smaller amount of money?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 03:42:57 PMI mean ... 8.9 minutes? 10ish minutes? Are we quibbling over 65 seconds a game here? The point is, if the staff looks at CH as the primary backup in the post, I think - and all the evidence to date suggests - that's a misevaluation.
Heck, before Sheek left, everyone here would have said the same. If anyone in March had suggested Caedin should be the primary backup, not Sheek, they'd have been laughed off Scoop. All that's happened to change that is Sheek leaving, not Hamilton becoming any more capable of holding down those minutes.
Fru played 22 mpg last year. I didn't watch enough Louisville to say whether that's because that was the limit of his effectiveness, or UL had a strong bench or some other reason.
But even if he can stretch that out to 28-30 mpg, that still leaves 10-12 minutes per night in the post (assuming no foul trouble). Maybe Royce can handle some of those when an opponent goes small. But based on what we saw last year, he's not a strong interior defender and any big with some post skills is going to eat against him (see Tre Carroll in the BE tournament).
So if not Caedin, where do those minutes go?
I wasnt quibbling. I agree that if Caedin is the same as last year and plays 10ish mpg, that's a misevaultion. I don't think it will happen for the reasons I gave.
Fru was splitting time with a top 100 (per BPR) player in Aly Khalifa. They also had two other big men who were much better than anything MU will have next season. Under Shaka the starting 5 has gotten at least 25mpg every year except year 1 (Kur/Oso platoon). I think Fru gets at least 28 a game barring injury or the LPL (long promised leap). I think the majority of the remaining minutes will go to Royce with Owens and Egbuono playing at the 4. I think there will be a small handful of minutes for Caedin and Clark... unless the LPL finally comes to pass (not holding my breath on that one)
Quote from: MurphysTillClose on June 02, 2026, 03:45:12 PMBrew gave you four specific examples today, including two in the Big East who made late additions that could've been bench pieces.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 12:37:39 PMWho did LSU grab that isn't starting or would help us? Bashir and Ugochukwu are going to start, Nunez isn't a high major player.
Who did NC State grab that would help us? Jacari Brim 1.2 ppg at app state? Comeh Emuobor whose BPR is 2 points lower than Hamilton's?
Seton Hall? I think Wol and Williams are going to start for them. Nwuli, maybe you grab him on potential, but on paper, he's not as good as Owens, Phillips, or Egbuono.
Providence, Bannarbie looks like a great depth piece for PC. Good on them. If Hodgson stays at PC (big if I think)...they could be a lot of trouble.
I'm not trying to claim that there were zero players out there who may have accepted a bench role and may have been good enough to help us, that's not true. But it's not true that we "played turtle." Those guys were identified and talked to. They either weren't a match for what we were looking for or their salary demands were beyond what we were willing to give them.
Some coaches thrive in environments where their relationships with their players is strictly a business relationship. Our coach isn't that. That's not a judgement good or bad. It's just an acknowledgement that different coaches succeed in different ways. Our coach for better or worse, succeeds by recruiting players who buy into his style of coaching/culture. He's never going to be a guy who recruits a guy solely because of his basketball talent. If he did, he wouldn't be successful. Again, I don't care how a coach does it, I just want to win and not be in the newspaper for the wrong reasons. But expecting Shaka to coach in a way that he can't be successful just doesn't make sense.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 03:33:43 PMSo, if you believe Sheek left for more money, it is inconsistent to say the staff should be able to, on short notice, find somebody as good or better for what Sheek was going to be paid.
I don't want them to find somebody "as good or better" than Sheek. I want them to find someone better than Caedin Hamilton and Josh Clark.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 03:52:19 PMSo should the staff make a desperation move?
Framing this as a choice between a "desperation move" or "Caedin as your primary backup" feels like a "death is not an option" proposition.
Of course, it's not that. There were options that wouldn't be desperation moves, and probably other beyond that, as Brew's Cracked Sidewalks piece outlined.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 03:56:53 PMAnd having them willing to play bench minutes for a lower price.
A lower price than what?
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 03:56:53 PMAnd having them willing to play bench minutes for a lower price.
Same thing at PG. Sales pitch: We have a sophomore star in the making who we anticipate playing 30 mpg. Are you interested in backing up for a smaller amount of money?
I don't think the money would be less. I am guilty of watching some low major basketball and the majority of centers in the MEAC, MVC, MAAC, etc. looked more comfortable and skilled than Hamilton. I'd guess that MU backups make more than them.
Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 04:03:00 PMA lower price than what?
OK, for a number similar to what Sheek was slated to be making at MU prior to his departure.
Taking into account the reported $ being tossed around to any big man with a pulse. Including Sheek.
Even if Sheek had stayed, why carry an RS soph C AND an RS junior C if they don't deserve playing time? He's gone and people still are saying these guys shouldn't play.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 02, 2026, 03:57:16 PMI think Fru gets at least 28 a game barring injury or the LPL (long promised leap). I think the majority of the remaining minutes will go to Royce with Owens and Egbuono playing at the 4. I think there will be a small handful of minutes for Caedin and Clark... unless the LPL finally comes to pass (not holding my breath on that one)
If the staff believed Royce could serve as the primary backup in the post, limiting CH/JC to mop-up duty, why didn't that happen last year?
Despite losing his starting gig, Caedin still played more than 10 minutes in five of the team's last 10 games, and averaged 9.5 mpg over that stretch. (Ben missed significant time in only one of those games, btw, and averaged 28 mpg ... so "Ben was hurt" is not the answer).
Beyond that, we all know Shaka puts a premium on defense. And whether we agree or not, he thinks Hamilton can defend. Given what we've seen from Royce's post defense, do you really believe Shaka is going to go with an inferior defender over a guy he thinks plays good defense?
Maybe he will, but history suggests otherwise.
People on here really believe that 18 was a shining star in practice but just couldn't do it in real games. Come the eff on. Get a grip. There's something weird going on and it's been that way for a long time. He'll likely be a regular off the bench in the first half of games.
Some of us were saying it was insane and criminal -- the choices made by the staff -- in freaking November of last year. It was clear as day from day 1. And we're still dealing with it heading into next season. Disappointing and that's why #LastYear is a real possibility.
I think some folks are just very gullible and take what coaches say as Gospel.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2026, 04:06:16 PMOK, for a number similar to what Sheek was slated to be making at MU prior to his departure.
Taking into account the reported $ being tossed around to any big man with a pulse. Including Sheek.
Your argument is that Marquette couldn't hope to find a quality backup for the amount of money they were paying their (maybe) quality backup?
OK.
Does John Dawson have any eligibility left?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 03:54:30 PMIt's not a matter of finding someone better than Sheek, especially since none of us know how good he is. It's a matter of finding someone better than Caedin and Josh, which doesn't seem the portal equivalent of climbing Everest.
Again, that goes back to the question regarding compensation - do you overpay a mediocre back-u big, which might then cause additional issues with current players?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 04:37:08 PMAgain, that goes back to the question regarding compensation - do you overpay a mediocre back-u big, which might then cause additional issues with current players?
No. You effin counsel-out players not fit for this level and keep the guys who are. Instead, SS chose a different path.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 02, 2026, 04:10:18 PMEven if Sheek had stayed, why carry an RS soph C AND an RS junior C if they don't deserve playing time? He's gone and people still are saying these guys shouldn't play.
UCONN's season was ruined because they brought in two seniors who were bad low major players and they didn't expect them to play. Oh wait, they made a national title.
Their season was ruined in 2022-2023 when they kept a 4th year junior in Richie Springs who had redshirted and then never played more than 3.5 mpg the next 3 seasons. Oh wait, they won the national title.
There are 15 scholarship spots. You are not going to have 15 contributors on your roster.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 04:17:11 PMIf the staff believed Royce could serve as the primary backup in the post, limiting CH/JC to mop-up duty, why didn't that happen last year?
Despite losing his starting gig, Caedin still played more than 10 minutes in five of the team's last 10 games, and averaged 9.5 mpg over that stretch. (Ben missed significant time in only one of those games, btw, and averaged 28 mpg ... so "Ben was hurt" is not the answer).
Beyond that, we all know Shaka puts a premium on defense. And whether we agree or not, he thinks Hamilton can defend. Given what we've seen from Royce's post defense, do you really believe Shaka is going to go with an inferior defender over a guy he thinks plays good defense?
Maybe he will, but history suggests otherwise.
Well, Royce missed one of those games with injury and had 4 fouls in two of the other games, and one was a 22 point win for Marquette when we were up 30-13 fourteen minutes in and it never got within 11 and the biggest lead was 27.
So, of the 5 games he played double digit minutes, one of Ben or Royce was injured or in foul trouble for...four of the games. The fifth was a game Marquette had an 82% or greater win probability from 32 seconds left in the first half on, and 99.9% win probability from 14:32 left in the game on.
So yeah, he basically only played significant minutes when one of our two capable bigs were in foul trouble or out with injury.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 04:50:54 PMSo yeah, he basically only played significant minutes when one of our two capable bigs were in foul trouble or out with injury.
He was in the regular rotation in the first half of games throughout the year.
That was wrong.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 02, 2026, 04:38:43 PMNo. You effin counsel-out players not fit for this level and keep the guys who are. Instead, SS chose a different path.
(https://media.tenor.com/QIvah8HkvzgAAAAM/the-point-over-your-head.gif)
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 04:44:19 PMUCONN's season was ruined because they brought in two seniors who were bad low major players and they didn't expect them to play. Oh wait, they made a national title.
Their season was ruined in 2022-2023 when they kept a 4th year junior in Richie Springs who had redshirted and then never played more than 3.5 mpg the next 3 seasons. Oh wait, they won the national title.
There are 15 scholarship spots. You are not going to have 15 contributors on your roster.
Yes, there are 15 roster spots. One is empty, one is for what Ben Steele has said is a 'practice player', two are redshirt freshmen, and two are incoming freshmen. All of a sudden that number doesn't seem nearly as big when talking about two more guys that people don't think should play, especially since none of those five guys play center and only one of the other seven does.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 02, 2026, 05:07:24 PMYes, there are 15 roster spots. One is empty, one is for what Ben Steele has said is a 'practice player', two are redshirt freshmen, and two are incoming freshmen. All of a sudden that number doesn't seem nearly as big when talking about two more guys that people don't think should play, especially since none of those five guys play center and only one of the other seven does.
So 2 of Egbuonu, Johnston, Miletic, Walker, Clark, and Hamilton will need to provide some decent minutes if you want to have 9 guys in the rotation.
That doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation to me.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 04:37:08 PMAgain, that goes back to the question regarding compensation - do you overpay a mediocre back-u big, which might then cause additional issues with current players?
If the going rate for a backup big for a P5 program is $X, then $X is by definition not an overpay. You pay what the market requires, not what you feel is fair.
I'm sure there are plenty of P4 football programs that would love not to pay $2+ million for a decent starting QB, but the reasonable solution to that is not "Let's not have a decent starting QB."
The solution to the pricey backup big market should not be "Let's not have a decent backup big."
What additional issues? Are we supposed to be afraid that Player A is going to not only care, but actually get upset, about how much a teammate earns? So much so that Player A will tank or quit? And you have to dole out compensation in such a way that it pleases the other players?
Sounds like a terrible way to manage a roster.
If there are issues, it's the coach's job to manage egos. If he can't, he probably won't be around for long (see: Wojciechowski, Steve).
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 04:50:54 PMSo yeah, he basically only played significant minutes when one of our two capable bigs were in foul trouble or out with injury.
Well then, it's a good thing the two capable bigs this year will never have foul trouble or get hurt.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 05:18:41 PMWell then, it's a good thing the two capable bigs this year will never have foul trouble or get hurt.
If the two capable bigs are out for an extended period, it won't matter regardless of the backups because no team has four bigs of similar skill levels
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 05:12:39 PMSo 2 of Egbuonu, Johnston, Miletic, Walker, Clark, and Hamilton will need to provide some decent minutes if you want to have 9 guys in the rotation.
That doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation to me.
I don't think it's unrealistic outside of the center position. When 2 of the 3 players on your roster at one position don't appear up to snuff, it's a problem. And before anyone says 'well, what was he supposed to do?', let's not act like this wasn't an ongoing issue the past two years. That's like ignoring a leaky pipe and then when you're standing in a foot of water saying it's not your fault.
And anyone saying 'Shaka couldn't have seen Sheek leaving' while also claiming 'what do you expect? This is what happens when you play the portal game' is talking out of both sides of their mouth.
I thought this thread was about Colton, who by the way I think was a very nice addition to the program. He seems to have a Kolek like chip on his shoulder, seems to be very talented and very coachable. Nice aquisitiion.
As for the constant crying over Hamilton and to a lesser extent Clark I would suggest getting over it. Hamilton and Clark were not respnsible for last seasnon's record. The reason for last season's woes, in no particular order were, under performance by Gold and Ross, injury to Sean Jones, the Lowery isue and the lack of development of Norman. This team is better than that team at the 5 spot and the 3 spot. Fru is better than Gold was and any combination of Owens,Philips or Egbouno will be better than Ros was, who had the misfortune of playing his entire career out of position.
Smart lke to play his starters 25 to 35 minutes a game, That will not change. I expect the substituton pattern in the first half of games will remain the same and that Hamilton is going to get some minutes in the first half of every game because he will be an upper classman and is capable of 5 minutes a game. If he is better than that it is a plus for MU. As for Clark if he has some staminina he has shown the ability to dunk and block shots. MU has a tree headed center position and I have every confidence that this team in and imagined configuration, will win 20 plus games and go dancing.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 02, 2026, 05:22:54 PMIf the two capable bigs are out for an extended period, it won't matter regardless of the backups because no team has four bigs of similar skill levels
There's a pretty wide gulf between "one guy is limited to 22 minutes due to foul trouble a few times" or "one guy misses a couple games with a sprained ankle" and "both guys are out for weeks."
The first two can be managed/ameliorated through depth, and good teams do that routinely. Marquette did it when TK went down at the end of the 23-24 season. Illinois did it last year when Boswell and Stojakovic missed games.
That's what we're talking about here, not doomsday scenarios. Or at least I thought so.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 05:35:55 PMThere's a pretty wide gulf between "one guy is limited to 22 minutes due to foul trouble a few times" or "one guy misses a couple games with a sprained ankle" and "both guys are out for weeks."
The first two can be managed/ameliorated through depth, and good teams do that routinely. Marquette did it when TK went down at the end of the 23-24 season. Illinois did it last year when Boswell and Stojakovic missed games.
That's what we're talking about here, not doomsday scenarios. Or at least I thought so.
There are different ways to manage those situations with lineup manipulations besides big for big.
I'd like to see the guys who haven't played play and then freak out appropriately.
I do believe we are at the point of the discussion where some are hoping for doomsday just to say, "told you so". Even if it's just a handful of games.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 02, 2026, 05:50:59 PMThere are different ways to manage those situations with lineup manipulations besides big for big.
I'd like to see the guys who haven't played play and then freak out appropriately.
What are some of these different ways to manage? If Fru goes down for a couple games and the answer isn't CH ... who is?
As for the guys who haven't played, that's great and all, but we're talking about the guys who have played. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario in which Fru gets hurt and Shaka's solution is Nash Walker or Ian Miletic in the post, but maybe I lack imagination.
QuoteI do believe we are at the point of the discussion where some are hoping for doomsday just to say, "told you so". Even if it's just a handful of games.
Nah. People are just understandably frustrated. Not everyone has to fan the same.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 06:25:01 PMWhat are some of these different ways to manage? If Fru goes down for a couple games and the answer isn't CH ... who is?
As for the guys who haven't played, that's great and all, but we're talking about the guys who have played. I'm having a hard time envisioning a scenario in which Fru gets hurt and Shaka's solution is Nash Walker or Ian Miletic in the post, but maybe I lack imagination.
Nah. People are just understandably frustrated. Not everyone has to fan the same.
You realize you can move a guy like Royce to the 5 right? Just because he's our starting 4 doesn't mean he can't move to the 5 if Fru is injured. Then guys like Alex or Owens can play the 4.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 05:12:44 PMIf the going rate for a backup big for a P5 program is $X, then $X is by definition not an overpay. You pay what the market requires, not what you feel is fair.
I'm sure there are plenty of P4 football programs that would love not to pay $2+ million for a decent starting QB, but the reasonable solution to that is not "Let's not have a decent starting QB."
The solution to the pricey backup big market should not be "Let's not have a decent backup big."
What additional issues? Are we supposed to be afraid that Player A is going to not only care, but actually get upset, about how much a teammate earns? So much so that Player A will tank or quit? And you have to dole out compensation in such a way that it pleases the other players?
Sounds like a terrible way to manage a roster.
If there are issues, it's the coach's job to manage egos. If he can't, he probably won't be around for long (see: Wojciechowski, Steve).
Your comparison of what a P4 college football team pays for a solid starter at QB (the most important position on the field) to what a backup center (not remotely close to the most important player on a roster) costs is pointless.
Where not paying for a starting QB is not reasonable, choosing not to overpay in desperation for a backup 5 could certainly be considered a reasonable decision when budgets are not unlimited and the pay structure of your roster needs to be considered.
Shaka and staff had their backup big and got hosed. Nothing they could do about that. Hypothetically, paying a backup big more than what Stevens or Parham is making would be incredibly stupid.
Those decisions are not made in a vacuum, which should be blatantly obvious. And yeah, compensation decisions absolutely should be made based on the pay structure of your roster. It's common sense.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 02, 2026, 05:25:19 PMI don't think it's unrealistic outside of the center position. When 2 of the 3 players on your roster at one position don't appear up to snuff, it's a problem. And before anyone says 'well, what was he supposed to do?', let's not act like this wasn't an ongoing issue the past two years. That's like ignoring a leaky pipe and then when you're standing in a foot of water saying it's not your fault.
And anyone saying 'Shaka couldn't have seen Sheek leaving' while also claiming 'what do you expect? This is what happens when you play the portal game' is talking out of both sides of their mouth.
Give me a break. Sheek had an agreement to stay even with Fru coming on board. SLU unexpectedly lost a transfer to Duke, panicked and dropped a bag.
Nothing the staff could have done.
The amount of consternation over a backup 5 is something else.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 05:35:55 PMThere's a pretty wide gulf between "one guy is limited to 22 minutes due to foul trouble a few times" or "one guy misses a couple games with a sprained ankle" and "both guys are out for weeks."
The first two can be managed/ameliorated through depth, and good teams do that routinely. Marquette did it when TK went down at the end of the 23-24 season. Illinois did it last year when Boswell and Stojakovic missed games.
That's what we're talking about here, not doomsday scenarios. Or at least I thought so.
Marquette did it during the 23-24 season because Kam was a stud and surprised the staff with how well he was able to run the team.
It wasn't because of depth or that a backup PG took over and played at a high level. And what you're complaining about now is the backup 5.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 07:34:02 PMGive me a break. Sheek had an agreement to stay even with Fru coming on board. SLU unexpectedly lost a transfer to Duke, panicked and dropped a bag.
Nothing the staff could have done.
The amount of consternation over a backup 5 is something else.
This is going to be the third year in a row where you'll be proven incorrect. People are upset because Shaka keeps making the same mistake, and a few of you guys keep moving the goalpost to defend it.
"Well embedded sources tell Rothstein..."
Turns out he's not good.
"He's the backup"
Starts in the nonconference.
"We got Sheek as the backup, he won't play"
Sheek leaves.
"They'll replace Sheek"
Sheek doesn't get replaced.
"Why do people think he'll play 10 minutes a game?"
Because that's how many he played at the end of last season as the backup.
If it bothers you and Wades so much then wave the white flag and ignore everyone else's justifiable gripes.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 06:27:23 PMYou realize you can move a guy like Royce to the 5 right? Just because he's our starting 4 doesn't mean he can't move to the 5 if Fru is injured. Then guys like Alex or Owens can play the 4.
Already discussed this.
Yeah, you can move anyone to the 5. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Or it's what Shaka will do.
Royce's interior defense against fours was ... er ... lacking. Not sure Shaka is going to put him at the 5 when he has Caedin, who he believes is a good defender.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 07:30:14 PMYour comparison of what a P4 college football team pays for a solid starter at QB (the most important position on the field) to what a backup center (not remotely close to the most important player on a roster) costs is pointless.
Only if you want to ignore the reality of the market. Which, apparently you do.
QuoteHypothetically, paying a backup big more than what Stevens or Parham is making would be incredibly stupid.
Might I suggest the options were not limited to:
1. Do Nothing/Caedin Hamilton
2. Paying a backup big more than Stevens or Parham.
Quote from: hawk on June 02, 2026, 05:27:18 PMMU has a tree headed center position and I have every confidence that this team in and imagined configuration, will win 20 plus games and go dancing.
Yes. Tree headed. Except for Sunny, it's all bark and no bite aina. If we win 20 plus games and go dancing I'll be elated.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 06:27:23 PMYou realize you can move a guy like Royce to the 5 right? Just because he's our starting 4 doesn't mean he can't move to the 5 if Fru is injured.
Yes. Or you can have Royce sit on the bench while you start 18. We've seen it before, as crazy as it sounds.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 07:34:02 PMGive me a break. Sheek had an agreement to stay even with Fru coming on board. SLU unexpectedly lost a transfer to Duke, panicked and dropped a bag.
Nothing the staff could have done.
#FakeNews #Lies
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 08:21:03 PMAlready discussed this.
Yeah, you can move anyone to the 5. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Or it's what Shaka will do.
Royce's interior defense against fours was ... er ... lacking. Not sure Shaka is going to put him at the 5 when he has Caedin, who he believes is a good defender.
Royce was moving the 5 when Gold would go to the bench last year unless we were playing Zuby or Reed, despite having Caedin on the roster.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 08:44:02 PMRoyce was moving the 5 when Gold would go to the bench last year unless we were playing Zuby or Reed, despite having Caedin on the roster.
WTF. Stop with the lies. It's absurd.
Last game of the year we're playing to survive.. against Xavier.. so no Zuby or Reed.
15:30 of the first half.. Stevens and Gold go out.. in comes Damarius and... 18.
That was very normal. You're just lying. 18 was a normal part of the planned early rotation to the very last game of the year. Buckle up.
#LastYear
Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2026, 08:44:02 PMRoyce was moving the 5 when Gold would go to the bench last year unless we were playing Zuby or Reed, despite having Caedin on the roster.
Again, already discussed this.
I can't believe im agreeing with Tower and MU82 - it must be one of the horsemen - but
1) like Tower says - in this era getting competent backups is going to be hard. You have coin and minutes for the starting 5 - after that, unless youre willing to pay starting coin, you're gonna see a big drop off. Keeping/finding "proven" reserves will be almost impossible- maybe coin and minutes for a proven 6 man, MAAAYBE 7 deep, but a "full" 10 man roster- forgettaboutit. Who knows the Sheek specifics, but in a world without coin, if the deal was "back up Fru this year and the youre the starting C on a BE team for 2 years" is there anyway he trades that for a few more minutes at SLU? Seems a lot less likely. But in the world with coin, even sheek (and certainly any proven reserve) is going to go to "aspirational" mid majors to start and get coin (or to P4 which can pay starter coin to a "full" roster).
2) like MU says, the roster is what it is now - all that's left is to see how it plays out. I'm confident that our starting 5 is enough to get us to the tourney. If we suffer injuries we're pretty f*cked, but that's always the case and especially because of 1 above.
To me next season is a binary- get to the tourney, Shaka proves he can play the portal.game, we're back on track and all smiles. Miss the tourney and it's time to move on.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 08:21:03 PMAlready discussed this.
Yeah, you can move anyone to the 5. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Or it's what Shaka will do.
Royce's interior defense against fours was ... er ... lacking. Not sure Shaka is going to put him at the 5 when he has Caedin, who he believes is a good defender.
Anyone can move to the five. But only a few can slap a proper five.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on June 02, 2026, 09:28:43 PMAnyone can move to the five. But only a few can slap a proper five.
(https://media.tenor.com/rxCErqafJ2AAAAAM/fail-high-five.gif)
Imagine a day and age where we would give anything to have a 250lb big fella aircraft carrier, AND a 7'2 pogo stick big as our two backups at the 5...
Now, we have it and are completely bummed about it.
Quote from: 1SE on June 02, 2026, 09:26:40 PMMiss the tourney and it's time to move on.
#LastYear ?
#ThankfulForExpansion
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 02, 2026, 07:30:14 PMYour comparison of what a P4 college football team pays for a solid starter at QB (the most important position on the field) to what a backup center (not remotely close to the most important player on a roster) costs is pointless.
Where not paying for a starting QB is not reasonable, choosing not to overpay in desperation for a backup 5 could certainly be considered a reasonable decision when budgets are not unlimited and the pay structure of your roster needs to be considered.
Shaka and staff had their backup big and got hosed. Nothing they could do about that. Hypothetically, paying a backup big more than what Stevens or Parham is making would be incredibly stupid.
Those decisions are not made in a vacuum, which should be blatantly obvious. And yeah, compensation decisions absolutely should be made based on the pay structure of your roster. It's common sense.
I was told we had so much money to spend though.
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 02, 2026, 10:48:54 PMI was told we had so much money to spend though.
Which we did.
Quote from: DoctorV on June 02, 2026, 09:38:32 PMImagine a day and age where we would give anything to have a 250lb big fella aircraft carrier, AND a 7'2 pogo stick big as our two backups at the 5...
Now, we have it and are completely bummed about it.
...and maybe a player or two from the incoming class will surprise us like NJ. Alex may not have the height, but he is built like a tank. Should be an interesting season.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2026, 06:28:39 AM...and maybe a player or two from the incoming class will surprise us like NJ. Alex may not have the height, but he is built like a tank. Should be an interesting season.
Agreed, we are all HOPING things work out despite not hedging our bets at a couple positions. Health will be key.
As has been said before, no one has to twist their brain into a pretzel or over rationalize a good starting five this year. The starting five is legit. Top 25 legit. NJ, RP and AS are potential Al-Big East players. We all saw it with our own two eyes. Not some coaching staff preseason hype. Fru and NM are hopefully in a similar position as well based on real performance from their respective leagues.
Then there is a drop off.
Cautiously optimistic about AE, (was excited to see Sheek in the cautiously optimistic category as well), MP2 and DO. Notice no guards or backup bigs in this category.
Then another drop off.
NW, IM. (Notice no big in this category and an unknown playmaking guard, and two unknowns).
Then another drop off.
CH and JC
Then another drop off.
CC
Pray for health! This could be a legit team if everything goes right. HOPE continues to be a strategy.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 03, 2026, 06:59:21 AMAgreed, we are all HOPING things work out despite not hedging our bets at a couple positions. Health will be key.
As has been said before, no one has to twist their brain into a pretzel or over rationalize a good starting five this year. The starting five is legit. Top 25 legit. NJ, RP and AS are potential Al-Big East players. We all saw it with our own two eyes. Not some coaching staff preseason hype. Fru and NM are hopefully in a similar position as well based on real performance from their respective leagues.
Then there is a drop off.
Cautiously optimistic about AE, (was excited to see Sheek in the cautiously optimistic category as well), and DO. Notice no guards or backup bigs in this category.
Then another drop off.
NW, IM. (Notice no big in this category and an unknown playmaking guard, and two unknowns).
Then another drop off.
CH and JC
Then another drop off.
CC
Pray for health! This could be a legit team if everything goes right. HOPE continues to be a strategy.
No MP2?
Ah, a big miss. Put him in the cautiously optimistic category
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 08:24:46 PMOnly if you want to ignore the reality of the market. Which, apparently you do.
Might I suggest the options were not limited to:
1. Do Nothing/Caedin Hamilton
2. Paying a backup big more than Stevens or Parham.
I'm not remotely ignoring how the market works. It's a bad comparison.
As I said, the scenario described above was a hypothetical but likely a realistic one.
If there was a back-up big available that was better than Hamilton/Clark and whose compensation fit with what Sheek or what a guy like DO is making and Shaka didn't add the player, that's a mistake.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 02, 2026, 07:48:05 PMThis is going to be the third year in a row where you'll be proven incorrect. People are upset because Shaka keeps making the same mistake, and a few of you guys keep moving the goalpost to defend it.
"Well embedded sources tell Rothstein..."
Turns out he's not good.
"He's the backup"
Starts in the nonconference.
"We got Sheek as the backup, he won't play"
Sheek leaves.
"They'll replace Sheek"
Sheek doesn't get replaced.
"Why do people think he'll play 10 minutes a game?"
Because that's how many he played at the end of last season as the backup.
If it bothers you and Wades so much then wave the white flag and ignore everyone else's justifiable gripes.
Remind me how I was proven incorrect the previous two seasons? Would love to see it.
You have no capability to see context or nuance.
I've consistently said Hamilton should not be in the rotation. I said after Sheek was poached that I wanted Shaka to add a back-up big.
However, unlike you and other people, I'm not going to pee my pants and think the season might be ruined based on the prospect of Hamilton playing limited minutes this upcoming season.
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 02, 2026, 10:48:54 PMI was told we had so much money to spend though.
That doesn't mean paying a backup big that may get 10-12 minutes a game more than some starters makes sense, does it?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 03, 2026, 09:07:14 AMThat doesn't mean paying a backup big that may get 10-12 minutes a game more than some starters makes sense, does it?
I guess its more of having to pay market value for what you need right? The old way didnt work, why advocate to bring it back?
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 03, 2026, 09:19:34 AMI guess its more of having to pay market value for what you need right?
Even trillion-dollar companies have budgets they stick to.
Quote from: MU82 on June 03, 2026, 09:23:44 AMEven trillion-dollar companies have budgets they stick to.
Quote from: MU82 on June 03, 2026, 09:23:44 AMEven trillion-dollar companies have budgets they stick to.
Sure, but thats not really the argument is it?
Blues argument is not paying a back up center more then a starter.... because optics? Idk.
No, Blue's argument has nothing to do with "optics." His argument is that you don't overpay for a player, especially a back up who isn't likely going to see meaningful minutes, if it knocks your entire compensation structure out of whack.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 03, 2026, 09:31:14 AMNo, Blue's argument has nothing to do with "optics." His argument is that you don't overpay for a player, especially a back up who isn't likely going to see meaningful minutes, if it knocks your entire compensation structure out of whack.
Right.
The problem with that argument is that it presents a false choice. MU's options weren't limited to a) do nothing or b) knock the entire compensation structure out of whack.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2026, 09:40:41 AMRight.
The problem with that argument is that it presents a false choice. MU's options weren't limited to a) do nothing or b) knock the entire compensation structure out of whack.
I completely agree. I don't want to overpay for a back up. I just think the staff decided that it was better to bank the $$ that Sheek was making and roll it back with the two we have.
I think TAMU and brew are actually both right here. They kicked around options and decided to stick with what they have for whatever reason.
Sheek was a highly regarded recruit. Just because SLU offered him a huge bag doesn't mean he was making pennies here. It's not a budget issue, it's a misevaluation issue.
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 03, 2026, 09:19:34 AMI guess its more of having to pay market value for what you need right? The old way didnt work, why advocate to bring it back?
If the market value is insane for a player that is unlikely to make a significant impact, the team should just pay it anyway, huh?
Quote from: The Sultan on June 03, 2026, 09:31:14 AMNo, Blue's argument has nothing to do with "optics." His argument is that you don't overpay for a player, especially a back up who isn't likely going to see meaningful minutes, if it knocks your entire compensation structure out of whack.
Correct.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 03, 2026, 08:56:08 AMI'm not remotely ignoring how the market works. It's a bad comparison.
As I said, the scenario described above was a hypothetical but likely a realistic one.
If there was a back-up big available that was better than Hamilton/Clark and whose compensation fit with what Sheek or what a guy like DO is making and Shaka didn't add the player, that's a mistake.
The problem is the staff rates ch18 higher than the options available on the open market.
Quote from: panda on June 03, 2026, 10:14:20 AMThe problem is the staff rates ch18 higher than the options available on the open market.
Yes. I think that is obviously the case. We will see if they, yet again, over-estimate his abilities.
Quote from: panda on June 03, 2026, 10:14:20 AMThe problem is the staff rates ch18 higher than the options available on the open market.
The reality is that compensation is part of that decision making process. I'd be more concerned with misevaluation if Hamilton's minutes hadn't declined significantly during the season.
Shaka probably should have been cold-blooded, cut 18 and Clark, and used the $$$ earmarked for them and Sheek to buy the best back-up big Marquette could afford. Maybe there would have even been enough $$$ left over to get a back-up PG who could dribble and chew gum at the same time.
But that's not what Shaka did, which will give all of us stuff to talk about (and b!tch about) from now until at least next April.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 03, 2026, 10:34:38 AMThe reality is that compensation is part of that decision making process. I'd be more concerned with misevaluation if Hamilton's minutes hadn't declined significantly during the season.
The actual reality is the program's archaic approach to the portal. They're still operating under the assumption there are rules and waiting for legislation/regulation to level set the playing field.
In reality, there are no rules, tampering is rampant and the competition is doing whatever it takes to improve their rosters at any point during the season when there are holes (see SLU) whereas we are years behind in player identification and modern roster building techniques.
Adding/replacing only two players following a 12-20 season is proof positive of the struggles this staff is going through building a competitive roster.
Quote from: panda on June 03, 2026, 10:45:22 AMThe actual reality is the program's archaic approach to the portal. They're still operating under the assumption there are rules and waiting for legislation/regulation to level set the playing field.
In reality, there are no rules, tampering is rampant and the competition is doing whatever it takes to improve their rosters at any point during the season when there are holes (see SLU) whereas we are years behind in player identification and modern roster building techniques.
Adding/replacing only two players following a 12-20 season is proof positive of the struggles this staff is going through building a competitive roster.
Nice job moving the goalposts and changing the subject.
The SLU comparison is bad. They panicked and overpaid a guy who hasn't played a minute of college basketball. You think that's the same as adding a back-up big behind an established starter?
Our starters should be very good. It's fair to question the bench - we'll see how this turns out.
While projection systems aren't full-proof, T-Rank has us as #28 in the country currently. How on earth could that be possible after a 12-20 season?
Quote from: panda on June 03, 2026, 10:45:22 AMThe actual reality is the program's archaic approach to the portal. They're still operating under the assumption there are rules and waiting for legislation/regulation to level set the playing field.
In reality, there are no rules, tampering is rampant and the competition is doing whatever it takes to improve their rosters at any point during the season when there are holes (see SLU) whereas we are years behind in player identification and modern roster building techniques.
Adding/replacing only two players following a 12-20 season is proof positive of the struggles this staff is going through building a competitive roster.
Shaka kept an extremely dynamic, talented, sought-after and tampered-with player from entering the portal. He also retained two other good starters who would have received $ubstantial intere$t had they been lured into the portal.
Then he went into the portal and emerged with seemingly good players to fit the team's two biggest needs.
While most of us wish he also had added decent back-ups at 5 and 1, Shaka's approach to this offseason doesn't appear to have been too "archaic."
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 02, 2026, 04:18:30 PMPeople on here really believe that 18 was a shining star in practice but just couldn't do it in real games.
I actually do think there's some truth to that. But it's the reason behind the truth. In practice, he was going up against clearly not ready Josh Clark and 17-year-old string bean Sheek Pearson. One of them was always going to look like the "best" in practice.
But in real games, he was going up against real proven D1 players, which quickly made it evident that being the equivalent of the tallest dwarf didn't matter all that much once the lights came on.
For me, this is why questions around this staff's self-evaluation are highly valid.
I like that were now taking a single game against what was a clearly hungover uconn team and praying that 18 can come close to that every game.
::)
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 03, 2026, 12:28:39 PMI like that were now taking a single game against what was a clearly hungover uconn team and praying that 18 can come close to that every game.
::)
Hung over from their huge win at home against Seton Hall over a week prior? I suppose they didn't have a Big East title on the line or anything either, so not much to play for.
I'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
Quote from: wisblue on June 03, 2026, 02:22:47 PMI'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
The mods just collect the exorbitant Scoop fees and sleep on their yachts all day.
Quote from: wisblue on June 03, 2026, 02:22:47 PMI'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
You could simply not read the bullcrap?
Quote from: wisblue on June 03, 2026, 02:22:47 PMI'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
Is this your fist time here? Every post eventually goes off-topic.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 03, 2026, 02:58:00 PMIs this your fist time here? Every post eventually goes off-topic.
No one answered if John Dawson has eligibility left.
Quote from: wisblue on June 03, 2026, 02:22:47 PMI'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
Or maybe you could just figure it out yourself. Whining about going off topic on a message board? Seriously...
Quote from: wisblue on June 03, 2026, 02:22:47 PMI'm astonished that people can get up virtually every day and have what amounts to the same conversation.
I came here to see what the story was about Crowdis and had to wade through the completely off topic garbage to find anything useful.
Maybe the moderators could do something to delete or relocate off topic posts.
He's a practice player/walk on type player according to Ben Steele. Not the backup playmaker actually needed for next year. That is it in a nut shell.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 03, 2026, 04:24:18 PMHe's a practice player/walk on type player according to Ben Steele. Not the backup playmaker actually needed for next year. That is it in a nut shell.
I hate to doubt someone's info but I haven't seen that in print. Colton looks like more than that to me - hell I remember bringing in my classmate Bruce Hayes as a walk on and he was more than serviceable. Colton looks a heck of alot better than a walk on imho. We'll see..
God damn the speculation required on here to evaluate the effectiveness of what programs are doing in the portal.
I swear many of you will be following SLU closely just so that you can bitch and moan when Sheek has a 16 point 8 rebound game against Fordham or Dayton. It could happen.
Just like Louisville fans could be watching MU and see Shaka perfectly utilize and motivate Sananda Fru, who goes off for multiple double doubles. It WILL happen!
And I will bet my last dollar the Cards fans, understanding the nature of the portal better than most, will handle things better than the clowns on this board.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 03, 2026, 03:57:31 PMNo one answered if John Dawson has eligibility left.
Or if anyone has grown a foot or two
Quote from: milwaukee expat on June 03, 2026, 05:10:14 PMI hate to doubt someone's info but I haven't seen that in print. Colton looks like more than that to me - hell I remember bringing in my classmate Bruce Hayes as a walk on and he was more than serviceable. Colton looks a heck of alot better than a walk on imho. We'll see..
You've seen him play?
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on June 03, 2026, 05:27:35 PMGod damn the speculation required on here to evaluate the effectiveness of what programs are doing in the portal.
I swear many of you will be following SLU closely just so that you can bitch and moan when Sheek has a 16 point 8 rebound game against Fordham or Dayton. It could happen.
Just like Louisville fans could be watching MU and see Shaka perfectly utilize and motivate Sananda Fru, who goes off for multiple double doubles. It WILL happen!
And I will bet my last dollar the Cards fans, understanding the nature of the portal better than most, will handle things better than the clowns on this board.
::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: milwaukee expat on June 03, 2026, 05:10:14 PMI hate to doubt someone's info but I haven't seen that in print. Colton looks like more than that to me - hell I remember bringing in my classmate Bruce Hayes as a walk on and he was more than serviceable. Colton looks a heck of alot better than a walk on imho. We'll see..
I don't think this is "more than serviceable." (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bruce-hayes-1.html)
This is bad.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 03, 2026, 05:50:20 PMI don't think this is "more than serviceable." (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bruce-hayes-1.html)
This is bad.
Maybe serviceable would have been closer to reality. As I recall he was able to spell Tony Smith for a bit and hit a couple big 3s 1 vs Michigan iirc. Anyhoo re if Ive seen him play Ive seen the videos and the chatter during his recruitment at end didn't sound like practice player walk on recruitment. He's had good games vs very good competition...
Sorry, but Crowdis is considered a practice player. Hopefully he develops into something, but in reality no one should be expecting anything from him.
This is why Marquette never announced his signing.
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on June 03, 2026, 05:27:35 PMI swear many of you will be following SLU closely just so that you can bitch and moan when Sheek has a 16 point 8 rebound game against Fordham or Dayton.
I'll be watching every minute of SLU basketball out of solidarity with Yadi's best buddy, shoothoops.
Quote from: milwaukee expat on June 03, 2026, 07:14:56 PMMaybe serviceable would have been closer to reality. As I recall he was able to spell Tony Smith for a bit and hit a couple big 3s 1 vs Michigan iirc. Anyhoo re if Ive seen him play Ive seen the videos and the chatter during his recruitment at end didn't sound like practice player walk on recruitment. He's had good games vs very good competition...
Here's Shaka saying he's a practice player.
https://youtu.be/PYho5d1txr0?si=TskMkAsaxHol7i0N&t=1260
Quote from: milwaukee expat on June 03, 2026, 05:10:14 PMI hate to doubt someone's info but I haven't seen that in print. Colton looks like more than that to me - hell I remember bringing in my classmate Bruce Hayes as a walk on and he was more than serviceable. Colton looks a heck of alot better than a walk on imho. We'll see..
Hope you are right. Only going off of what was said here. Admittedly that may not be smart.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 03, 2026, 07:53:03 PMHere's Shaka saying he's a practice player.
https://youtu.be/PYho5d1txr0?si=TskMkAsaxHol7i0N&t=1260
Perhaps that is more about expectations than ability to play. Sounds like Nash is going to miss a lot of practice as Crowdis will be pick up that slack. Did I hear correctly that they'll be playing some games in Vancouver. Maybe 82 can scout the team for us.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2026, 08:55:26 PMPerhaps that is more about expectations than ability to play. Sounds like Nash is going to miss a lot of practice as Crowdis will be pick up that slack. Did I hear correctly that they'll be playing some games in Vancouver. Maybe 82 can scout the team for us.
Nash was playing in practice earlier this week.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 03, 2026, 08:55:26 PMMaybe 82 can scout the team for us.
I'll bop right on up.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 02, 2026, 01:10:25 PMIf they're relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game, then yeah, pretty good chance they've already misevaluated.
Maybe this is the year the long-promised big leap from Hamilton actually happens, but fool me thrice?
Since it is an argument you enjoy using, which coach has said they're relying on 10ish minutes a game from Caedin?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 08:04:02 AMSince it is an argument you enjoy using, which coach has said they're relying on 10ish minutes a game from Caedin?
Actions speak louder than words.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 04, 2026, 08:27:01 AMActions speak louder than words.
Ah, so no one. Got it.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 08:04:02 AMSince it is an argument you enjoy using, which coach has said they're relying on 10ish minutes a game from Caedin?
This is pretty much a nonsense question. No coach says anything about whatever minutes a potential back up is playing six months before the season starts.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2026, 09:40:41 AMRight.
The problem with that argument is that it presents a false choice. MU's options weren't limited to a) do nothing or b) knock the entire compensation structure out of whack.
You cannot know this for a fact. You can and are presuming it.
Quote from: The Sultan on June 04, 2026, 08:35:50 AMThis is pretty much a nonsense question. No coach says anything about whatever minutes a potential back up is playing six months before the season starts.
I agree, which is why I'm pointing out Pakman's presumptions being silly.
If missing out on guys on the transfer market is so often due to budgetary issues, then maybe paying a guy who in his fourth year apparently isn't good enough to play 10 minutes a game is a misuse of funds.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 09:05:41 AMIf missing out on guys on the transfer market is so often due to budgetary issues, then maybe paying a guy who in his fourth year apparently isn't good enough to play 10 minutes a game is a misuse of funds.
Look, you're just making things up at this point. Tell me who they missed out on and that the reason was for lack of funds (show your work) and we can have a conversation.
Quote from: DoctorV on June 02, 2026, 09:38:32 PMImagine a day and age where we would give anything to have a 250lb big fella aircraft carrier, AND a 7'2 pogo stick big as our two backups at the 5...
Now, we have it and are completely bummed about it.
...as long as those back-up's at the 5 have game. Our two, to this point, have shown they do not. Just warm bodies.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 09:05:41 AMIf missing out on guys on the transfer market is so often due to budgetary issues, then maybe paying a guy who in his fourth year apparently isn't good enough to play 10 minutes a game is a misuse of funds.
Why do people continue to assume we're paying the back end of the roster this crazy amount of money? It's why people thought we wouldn't see departures from any guys on the roster who had remaining eligibility. Yet Sean and Tre (to go along with Zaide who already left the team) are gone, despite, apparently, Marquette paying everyone huge money.
Just like when people thought every player was being paid based solely on seniority within the program. It's crazy if people think Fru is making the same money Ethan is. Or Caedin is making more than Nigel.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 09:26:11 AMLook, you're just making things up at this point. Tell me who they missed out on and that the reason was for lack of funds (show your work) and we can have a conversation.
Sure, let me get Shaka on the phone real quick.
The point is either he's going to play or he's not and we've wasted four years of money and resources on him. Pick your poison.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 09:05:41 AMIf missing out on guys on the transfer market is so often due to budgetary issues, then maybe paying a guy who in his fourth year apparently isn't good enough to play 10 minutes a game is a misuse of funds.
You're missing the point. It's not about the money not being available. It's about throwing your entire compensation structure out of whack by hypothetically paying a back-up big who might play 8 - 14 MPG as much or more than Royce or Adrien are making.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 09:47:13 AMWhy do people continue to assume we're paying the back end of the roster this crazy amount of money?
Maybe because back end players like Josh Clark are rolling around in $135,000 BMW X5 M competition SUVs with a license plate that says "0.3 GPA".
Maybe that has something to do with it?
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 03, 2026, 02:30:34 PMYou could simply not read the bullcrap?
I don't read the bullcrap. But I still have to scroll to see if I can find the information I was after.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 04, 2026, 10:02:38 AMYou're missing the point. It's not about the money not being available. It's about throwing your entire compensation structure out of whack by hypothetically paying a back-up big who might play 8 - 14 MPG as much or more than Royce or Adrien are making.
I think people are clinging to the Sheek situation and trying to apply it everywhere. Like you said, SLU panicked, threw a huge bag at him along with a starting spot and a chance to go home.
Marquette isn't a poverty program and it's not a charity either. Royce would've been a hot commodity in the portal. He's getting paid. Bigs may be a commodity, but all possible backups aren't screwing up the pay structure.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to just acknowledge Shaka thinks Caedin is a lot better than those of us on this board do, and that played into his decision. His minutes diminished down the stretch the year before too.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 08:36:05 AMYou cannot know this for a fact. You can and are presuming it.
You're right. I cannot know for an absolute fact. I think given the facts we know, the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly says I'm right. You're free to be the "well actually" guy here.
I mean, when I wake up in the morning and the ground outside is soaking wet, I can't say for an absolute fact that it rained overnight. Maybe one of those forest-firefighting planes dumped a load over my block. But I'd feel pretty safe going with rain as the explanation.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 08:04:02 AMSince it is an argument you enjoy using, which coach has said they're relying on 10ish minutes a game from Caedin?
Ignoring that I presented that as a hypothetical (notice the first word of my sentence?) ...
They relied on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game down the stretch last year. Given that the only difference among the post options between last season and this upcoming season is swapping Gold for Fru, it stands to reason that relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game remains a possibility.
But yes, you are correct, no coach has outlined exactly how many minutes Caedin will play next year. You got me there.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 09:47:13 AMIt's crazy if people think Fru is making the same money Ethan is. Or Caedin is making more than Nigel.
These are things no one here has ever written.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 04, 2026, 10:18:06 AMMaybe because back end players like Josh Clark are rolling around in $135,000 BMW X5 M competition SUVs with a license plate that says "0.3 GPA".
Maybe that has something to do with it?
I don't know what cars players are rolling around in, or what their license plates read. But I think I remember hearing all the players got BMWs. I'm guessing that's not coming out of their pocket from their NIL/rev share money that MU is offering them.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 10:48:35 AMThese are things no one here has ever written.
Pretty sure wades was being hyperbolic and referring to the fact that, in the past, some Scoopers claimed that Shaka's pay scale was based on seniority - hence Hamilton (a redshirt junior to be) making more than James (a sophomore to be).
In other words, there has been a ton of misinformation here about who gets paid what.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 10:32:38 AMYou're right. I cannot know for an absolute fact. I think given the facts we know, the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly says I'm right. You're free to be the "well actually" guy here.
I mean, when I wake up in the morning and the ground outside is soaking wet, I can't say for an absolute fact that it rained overnight. Maybe one of those forest-firefighting planes dumped a load over my block. But I'd feel pretty safe going with rain as the explanation.
It's highs of 80s consistently right now where I live. It hasn't rained the last few nights, but the ground is still wet when I wake up. Plenty of dew in the morning which make the ground very wet without rain.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 10:48:35 AMThese are things no one here has ever written.
Literally typed out? Maybe not. But are you really going to argue there weren't posters on MUScoop who were claiming that Shaka/Marquette had a pay structure that paid players based on the number of years they were in the program? And that Shaka would not negotiate with that, wouldn't work with agents, etc. and the only difference in pay players on the team had would be deals players found on their own outside of what Marquette set up for them? That there weren't constantly posters who were claiming that because of this structure, there was no chance Sean Jones or Tre Norman would leave as their pay at Marquette wasn't going to get cut, they were going to be in their 4th/5th year in the program, and there was no way in hell they'd get as much money to play in another program as they would get paid by Marquette because there's no chance Marquette was cutting their funds?
When your argument is "Marquette pays players based on years in the program and does not stray from that pay structure, which is why nobody in their right mind would leave if you're Sean/Tre," you don't need someone to type out the words, "Caedin Hamilton is a 4th year player so he will get more money than Nigel James because he's a second year player." Either Marquette pays players based on years in the program and Hamilton/Clark are getting more than James/Fru, or they don't pay players based on years in the program.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 11:07:49 AMLiterally typed out? Maybe not. But are you really going to argue there weren't posters on MUScoop who were claiming that Shaka/Marquette had a pay structure that paid players based on the number of years they were in the program?
No, not maybe not. Definitely not.
You wrote that people - plural - think Fru and Ethan Johnston are making the same, and that Caedin is making more than Nigel. Nobody here has written that.
The rest is a bunch of goalpost shifting.
And quite a swing after moments earlier getting super pedantic over dewy grass (to which, I suppose, I could have pedantically pointed out that sidewalks, streets and driveways also count as the ground outdoors).
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 11:15:41 AMNo, not maybe not. Definitely not.
You wrote that people - plural - think Fru and Ethan Johnston are making the same, and that Caedin is making more than Nigel. Nobody here has written that.
The rest is a bunch of goalpost shifting.
And quite a swing after moments earlier getting super pedantic over dewy grass (to which, I suppose, I could have pedantically pointed out that sidewalks, streets and driveways also count as the ground outdoors).
Is it goalpost shifting? Or is it using logic? I'll make it simple and you can either avoid the questions, or give honest answers?
Were there not Scoopers who claimed Shaka/Marquette paid players based on years in the program?
Were there not Scoopers who claimed Sean and Tre would not be leaving the program based on this, because they would get paid a lot at Marquette as 5th/4th year players, and nobody else would pay them close to what 5th/4th year players at MU would get?
How many years have Fru and Johnston been at Marquette?
How many years have Caedin and Nigel been at Marquette?
And when the answers inevitably come down to "Yeah, Marquette doesn't pay based on years in the program like posters claimed," then the next question, again, is why do people think we're paying Josh and Caedin so much that we can't land transfers (despite landing one of the top players at the most premium positions)?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 10:40:59 AMIgnoring that I presented that as a hypothetical (notice the first word of my sentence?) ...
They relied on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game down the stretch last year. Given that the only difference among the post options between last season and this upcoming season is swapping Gold for Fru, it stands to reason that relying on Caedin for 10ish minutes a game remains a possibility.
But yes, you are correct, no coach has outlined exactly how many minutes Caedin will play next year. You got me there.
Correct. And the roster is objectively different this year, and has been discussed players were dealing with injuries.
Would it be great to have more options at the 5? Yes, of course. I'm not sure anyone is excited about the lack of depth. Furthermore, I still would love to add a big.
Some names (no one wants to talk names, they just want to piss and moan).
Robert Miller III (So) - I'd love it as a replacement for Sheek, but he has been real quiet.
Jerald Colonel (Sr) - great idea, but will want to play a lot, which cuts into Fru's minutes
Emeka Opurum (So) - possible medical issue
Once you get this far down the available guys you are looking at are PROJECTS
The trouble is most of the guys still around in the portal are seniors and are going to be looking for a pay day and/or starting minutes. We don't have those things available so we are going to roll it out with what we have.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 11:00:13 AMI don't know what cars players are rolling around in, or what their license plates read. But I think I remember hearing all the players got BMWs. I'm guessing that's not coming out of their pocket from their NIL/rev share money that MU is offering them.
#fakenews #lies
Multiple players got other cars than BMWs - D Owens still rolling around in a Dodge Charger.
NIL deals or not - it gives the appearance that the backend players are getting paid extremely well.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 04, 2026, 11:29:52 AM#fakenews #lies
Multiple players got other cars than BMWs - D Owens still rolling around in a Dodge Charger.
NIL deals or not - it gives the appearance that the backend players are getting paid extremely well.
So they probably have a deal with a local dealership and get to pick a car to drive.
We should have Josh and Caedin sell theirs, kick them off the team, and then we could land a competent big.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 11:07:49 AMLiterally typed out? Maybe not. But are you really going to argue there weren't posters on MUScoop who were claiming that Shaka/Marquette had a pay structure that paid players based on the number of years they were in the program? And that Shaka would not negotiate with that, wouldn't work with agents, etc. and the only difference in pay players on the team had would be deals players found on their own outside of what Marquette set up for them? That there weren't constantly posters who were claiming that because of this structure, there was no chance Sean Jones or Tre Norman would leave as their pay at Marquette wasn't going to get cut, they were going to be in their 4th/5th year in the program, and there was no way in hell they'd get as much money to play in another program as they would get paid by Marquette because there's no chance Marquette was cutting their funds?
When your argument is "Marquette pays players based on years in the program and does not stray from that pay structure, which is why nobody in their right mind would leave if you're Sean/Tre," you don't need someone to type out the words, "Caedin Hamilton is a 4th year player so he will get more money than Nigel James because he's a second year player." Either Marquette pays players based on years in the program and Hamilton/Clark are getting more than James/Fru, or they don't pay players based on years in the program.
I remember someone once saying Shaka didn't like the idea of a transfer coming in and making as much or more money as someone who had invested years into the program already.
Well, Fru's here now and he's making more than almost every player on the roster I'd imagine. Whoever said that must be an idiot, right?
Oh wait, Shaka said that.
Things change. So no, nobody claimed Caedin is making more than Nigel because things don't work like that anymore. Shaka himself has said when they made the decision to not take transfers the landscape of college basketball was much different. This offseason, he's changing with the times. 12-20 will do that to you.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 04, 2026, 11:29:52 AM#fakenews #lies
Multiple players got other cars than BMWs - D Owens still rolling around in a Dodge Charger.
NIL deals or not - it gives the appearance that the backend players are getting paid extremely well.
Or, like a lot of 18-21 year olds, they're bad with their money.
Quote from: wisblue on June 04, 2026, 10:24:16 AMI don't read the bullcrap. But I still have to scroll to see if I can find the information I was after.
You'll eventually figure out the wonders of the word finder built into every browser.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 11:35:07 AMI remember someone once saying Shaka didn't like the idea of a transfer coming in and making as much or more money as someone who had invested years into the program already.
Well, Fru's here now and he's making more than almost every player on the roster I'd imagine. Whoever said that must be an idiot, right?
Oh wait, Shaka said that.
Things change. So no, nobody claimed Caedin is making more than Nigel because things don't work like that anymore. Shaka himself has said when they made the decision to not take transfers the landscape of college basketball was much different. This offseason, he's changing with the times. 12-20 will do that to you.
Correct! Things change! Thanks for finally getting to the point!
Once again, why are you or others on Scoop so steadfast that we're paying Josh and Caedin some crazy money and if they weren't on the roster we could go get a stud 5 to come be a backup?
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2026, 11:02:27 AMPretty sure wades was being hyperbolic and referring to the fact that, in the past, some Scoopers claimed that Shaka's pay scale was based on seniority - hence Hamilton (a redshirt junior to be) making more than James (a sophomore to be).
In other words, there has been a ton of misinformation here about who gets paid what.
In the past, I'm pretty confident at least the floor was based on seniority. And looking back, it would've made sense.
2026 - Highest paid seniors Chase Ross and Ben Gold, followed by juniors Zaide Lowery, Sean Jones, and Caedin Hamilton (expected to be high-impact starters)
2025 - Highest paid seniors Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, David Joplin, followed by juniors Chase Ross and Ben Gold.
2024 - Highest paid seniors Tyler Kolek and Oso Ighodaro, followed by Kam, Stevie, and Jop
For the past three years, the seniors were expected to be the stars, the juniors were generally expected to start and contribute significantly, everyone else was expected to be in more of a rotation role.
It isn't crazy at all to not just think base NIL payments were preferenced by seniority, but that it was totally rational to do so.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 02:51:29 PMCorrect! Things change! Thanks for finally getting to the point!
Once again, why are you or others on Scoop so steadfast that we're paying Josh and Caedin some crazy money and if they weren't on the roster we could go get a stud 5 to come be a backup?
I don't think anyone has those players are getting "crazy money."
The better question is, why spend any money on players who won't play, if it could be instead be invested in recruiting players who will play.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 03:02:46 PMI don't think anyone has those players are getting "crazy money."
The better question is, why spend any money on players who won't play, if it could be instead be invested in recruiting players who will play.
I'd think if they're making enough that we're not able to invest in players who play because of them being on the roster, they're making (what I could consider to be) crazy money.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 02:51:29 PMCorrect! Things change! Thanks for finally getting to the point!
Once again, why are you or others on Scoop so steadfast that we're paying Josh and Caedin some crazy money and if they weren't on the roster we could go get a stud 5 to come be a backup?
Because no one is insisting they got crazy money. I very much doubt the third year player who started at center last year was making back of the bench money, though. Point is, if we're worried about overpaying guys, we're already doing that with our backup 5s anyway.
And nobody said they need to get a 'stud 5'. You know that, but replacing 'stud' with 'competent' renders your argument moot.
You keep twisting yourself into knots to defend this. "14th or 15th guy on the roster", "Averaged 8.5 minutes down the stretch", "We can just play other players out of position", "He's not making crazy money". If Tre, Zaide, and Sean leaving says something about how things are run now then Caedin still being around says something too.
He's the longest tenured player on the team. He's not making more than Fru, or Nigel, or Royce. But he's definitely making more than several other guys. It's been a poor use of time and resources. You can brush that off if you want, but it's the truth.
As much as I wish Sheek hadn't been poached, SLU is the one making desperation moves that might not make sense to a Marquette team. I do not know the specific amount of $$, but even if it was close to what Marquette was paying him I think he bolted mostly because of playing time. Fru is going to start and play 25-30 minutes every game unless he's hurt. Sheek would bounce between the 4 and 5 and get 15-20 minutes max.
The long-term plan for Sheek was awesome on Marquette's part because he would have slowly ramped up to being the starter next season. SLU missed out on another prospect and threw funny money at the kid. It was equally smart for MU not to match, if they even had the chance. Because if you drop a huge bag on your backup center in 26-27, then you might not have as much dough to play with next offseason. Even worse, you might upset the apple cart because other pieces on the roster might start demanding more $$$ using similar tactics.
Some Scoopers are freaking out because we didn't throw funny money at a backup big but the market would not have yielded an efficient ROI with who was still in the portal.
For next season, we'll have 10-15 minutes a night to figure out if Caedin and Josh can cut it. If it goes the way some of you fear it will, then Shaka SHOULD be forced to have some tough conversations (Tre Norman and Al Amadou). Best-case scenario for the backcourt is we see huge strides out of Josh Clark because he's 7'1" and moves pretty well. I do think we can get Royce some minutes at center because Alex Egbuonu and Damarius (maybe even MPIII and Ian) can cover the 4
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 03:14:54 PMBecause no one is insisting they got crazy money. I very much doubt the third year player who started at center last year was making back of the bench money, though. Point is, if we're worried about overpaying guys, we're already doing that with our backup 5s anyway.
And nobody said they need to get a 'stud 5'. You know that, but replacing 'stud' with 'competent' renders your argument moot.
You keep twisting yourself into knots to defend this. "14th or 15th guy on the roster", "Averaged 8.5 minutes down the stretch", "We can just play other players out of position", "He's not making crazy money". If Tre, Zaide, and Sean leaving says something about how things are run now then Caedin still being around says something too.
He's the longest tenured player on the team. He's not making more than Fru, or Nigel, or Royce. But he's definitely making more than several other guys. It's been a poor use of time and resources. You can brush that off if you want, but it's the truth.
If Caedin and Josh aren't making crazy money, then how are we unable to land capable players in the portal?
I keep asking this and can't get an answer from you or Pak.
Heck, we have Sheek's money to play with. So we have Sheek's money, we have an open roster spot, yet the issue is that we're paying Josh and Caedin. But not paying them a ton, but enough that we can't land a competent portal big.
Makes sense...
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 03:28:49 PMIf Caedin and Josh aren't making crazy money, then how are we unable to land capable players in the portal?
I keep asking this and can't get an answer from you or Pak.
Because Shaka thinks Caedin is capable. There ya go!
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 03:29:43 PMBecause Shaka thinks Caedin is capable. There ya go!
He obviously did not. Caedin's minutes dwindled despite having Ben Gold and Royce Parham as the only other options on the team, he had Sheek signed up for another year, and he went out and got Fru in the portal. Everything Shaka did in the offseason says you're wrong. The reality is, we got into the portal game like everyone wanted, and now people are freaking out because the portal game went against us. Which was always going to happen once you start playing that game.
And now, apparently, Josh and Caedin getting paid are making it impossible for us to sign contributors, even though they aren't making big money.
Quote from: MUbiz on June 04, 2026, 10:18:06 AMMaybe because back end players like Josh Clark are rolling around in $135,000 BMW X5 M competition SUVs with a license plate that says "0.3 GPA".
Maybe that has something to do with it?
I would like to see a photo. If not the vehicle then the plate. Who knows maybe Josh got a great deal with "Clark Bars".
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 03:31:40 PMHe obviously did not. Caedin's minutes dwindled despite having Ben Gold and Royce Parham as the only other options on the team, he had Sheek signed up for another year, and he went out and got Fru in the portal. Everything Shaka did in the offseason says you're wrong. The reality is, we got into the portal game like everyone wanted, and now people are freaking out because the portal game went against us. Which was always going to happen once you start playing that game.
His minutes dwindled the year before too. He started opening night. The problem is you want to have it both ways: Caedin is bad and won't play so it's okay, but four years of time and resources on a bad player is okay too. Heading into the season with Caedin as our backup center certainly doesn't say I'm wrong.
You guys keep making it about Sheek leaving. I've seen very few people who don't understand why he left or don't understand why we didn't match. That's not the issue at hand. The issue is not replacing him.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 03:14:54 PMBecause no one is insisting they got crazy money. I very much doubt the third year player who started at center last year was making back of the bench money, though. Point is, if we're worried about overpaying guys, we're already doing that with our backup 5s anyway.
And nobody said they need to get a 'stud 5'. You know that, but replacing 'stud' with 'competent' renders your argument moot.
You keep twisting yourself into knots to defend this. "14th or 15th guy on the roster", "Averaged 8.5 minutes down the stretch", "We can just play other players out of position", "He's not making crazy money". If Tre, Zaide, and Sean leaving says something about how things are run now then Caedin still being around says something too.
He's the longest tenured player on the team. He's not making more than Fru, or Nigel, or Royce. But he's definitely making more than several other guys. It's been a poor use of time and resources. You can brush that off if you want, but it's the truth.
Your third paragraph sums up resignation followed by rationalization perfectly.
It sucks that we are an injury or two away from disaster but hopefully the tight rope won't snap. The starting five is legit and hopefully Shaka is dead on with his talent evaluation for the rest of them.
There is a possibility where Hamilton and Clark are serviceable backups and Nash is play maker next year. The correct play was to hedge the bet.
The motto should be. Be resigned (nothing you can do about it) but don't rationalize.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 03:29:43 PMBecause Shaka thinks Caedin is capable. There ya go!
Why is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 04, 2026, 03:48:53 PMWhy is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?
Because providing an excuse for why they couldn't get a single guy to replace Sheek sounds like a coping mechanism. Shaka said he kicked the tires on some guys, but decided to go with what he had. I think he did that because while he knows the dropoff from Fru to Caedin is big, it's much bigger than he believes.
And compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions? We already got some of those anyway.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:00:14 PMBecause providing an excuse for why they couldn't get a single guy to replace Sheek sounds like a coping mechanism. Shaka said he kicked the tires on some guys, but decided to go with what he had. I think he did that because while he knows the dropoff from Fru to Caedin is big, it's much bigger than he believes.
And compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions? We already got some of those anyway.
Like who? Again, it seems like Shaka changed that. If he didn't, why did Sean and Tre leave? Is there a rule that says every player on a roster must receive payment for being on the roster? What are we paying Josh and Caedin, you seem to know. It's not a crazy amount, but it's enough to handcuff ourselves from being able to sign competent depth.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 04:06:52 PMLike who? Again, it seems like Shaka changed that. If he didn't, why did Sean and Tre leave? Is there a rule that says every player on a roster must receive payment for being on the roster? What are we paying Josh and Caedin, you seem to know. It's not a crazy amount, but it's enough to handcuff ourselves from being able to sign competent depth.
The guy who went from starter to the end of the bench would probably qualify. So now he's getting a paycut? Not getting paid at all?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 03:28:49 PMIf Caedin and Josh aren't making crazy money, then how are we unable to land capable players in the portal?
I keep asking this and can't get an answer from you or Pak.
Coach's decision.
I don't think, and have never said, MU is unable to land capable players in the portal. That's been the excuse trotted out by people defending the lack of a Sheek replacement, not by me.
I think MU is able to land capable players, and they proved that with Fru and Minnesale. Not landing others, including one to replace Sheek, was a choice. Shaka's hands weren't tied here. He made a choice, and it's that choice that has some people frustrated.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:16:52 PMThe guy who went from starter to the end of the bench would probably qualify. So now he's getting a paycut? Not getting paid at all?
You don't think players were getting pay cuts after last season? Why do you think Sean and Tre left?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 04:21:18 PMYou don't think players were getting pay cuts after last season? Why do you think Sean and Tre left?
Why did Amadou leave? Why did Itejere leave? Sometimes the coach has to be upfront with how they see their roles moving forward or just tell them it's time to go.
SS loves the idea of 18 playing every game. That's why we're where we're at.
#LastYear
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:24:51 PMWhy did Amadou leave? Why did Itejere leave? Sometimes the coach has to be upfront with how they see their roles moving forward or just tell them it's time to go.
So Sean, the projected starting point guard last year who has been around for 4 years, left even though he almost certainly was going to be making more this year than he ever makes again in his life unless he was getting a pay cut? Or Toledo is paying what a 4th year starting point guard in the Big East would make?
Seems like a poor decision for him.
The reality is that players were told they would not be making as much money as they had been. Including the player who went into the season as the starting center, and until 1 hour was left to have players enter the portal was projected to be the 3rd center on the roster next year.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 04, 2026, 03:48:53 PMWhy is that you and others refuse to acknowledge that the bigs still available when Sheek got poached may have wanted a starting role and/or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions or make sense with the compensation structure for the roster?
Oh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for
every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 04:17:17 PMCoach's decision.
I don't think, and have never said, MU is unable to land capable players in the portal. That's been the excuse trotted out by people defending the lack of a Sheek replacement, not by me.
I think MU is able to land capable players, and they proved that with Fru and Minnesale. Not landing others, including one to replace Sheek, was a choice. Shaka's hands weren't tied here. He made a choice, and it's that choice that has some people frustrated.
Give us a name. Tell us who was still available when Sheek walked. Tell us with confidence who you think we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes.
If you can't do that you're not trying to have an honest argument.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 04:33:53 PMOh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.
Go look at the pool of guys that are left that are not seniors. Report back.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 04:33:53 PMOh, I'm sure there were bigs that may have expected a starting role or compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions. I haven't said otherwise.
But there's no way that was the case for every single big on the market. There are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
We've been told Shaka is great at developing bigs. Couldn't he sell that along with the opportunity? Wouldn't the money Sheek left behind be better than what starters are getting in the MAC and Big West?
Again, we're not looking for an elite immediate impact guy. We're looking for someone better than CH and JC.
This is where Shaka/staff/program's portal naivety comes in to play big time. Targets can be assessed and contacted at any time during the season/off season to discuss the staff want and opportunity within the program. Waiting for players to enter the portal is most often, too late and will lead to far too much competition. The staff needs to modernize their approach or will for a third season in a row, fail to meet expectations.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 04:33:03 PMSo Sean, the projected starting point guard last year who has been around for 4 years, left even though he almost certainly was going to be making more this year than he ever makes again in his life unless he was getting a pay cut? Or Toledo is paying what a 4th year starting point guard in the Big East would make?
Seems like a poor decision for him.
The reality is that players were told they would not be making as much money as they had been. Including the player who went into the season as the starting center, and until 1 hour was left to have players enter the portal was projected to be the 3rd center on the roster next year.
Or maybe he'd been here four years and was told time to move on after losing his starting role and since he couldn't stay healthy?
"It's fine he's on the team, he took a paycut!" As Shooter said above, it's resignation followed by rationalization.
Since I answered your question before, maybe you or VBMG can answer the one you keep dancing around: Is it smart to pour four years of money and resources into a player you yourselves think is bad? And 'it doesn't matter' isn't a valid response.
Quote from: panda on June 04, 2026, 04:47:03 PMThis is where Shaka/staff/program's portal naivety comes in to play big time. Targets can be assessed and contacted at any time during the season/off season to discuss the staff want and opportunity within the program. Waiting for players to enter the portal is most often, too late and will lead to far too much competition. The staff needs to modernize their approach or will for a third season in a row, fail to meet expectations.
The staff had targets with months left in the season. The staff vetted a ton of players. They were well prepared for the portal. Sheek agreed to return. There is no way that you can be prepared for every situation in today's day and age. You're kidding yourself if you say you can.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:50:12 PMOr maybe he'd been here four years and was told time to move on after losing his starting role and since he couldn't stay healthy?
"It's fine he's on the team, he took a paycut!" As Shooter said above, it's resignation followed by rationalization.
Since I answered your question before, maybe you or VBMG can answer the one you keep dancing around: Is it smart to pour four years of money and resources into a player you yourselves think is bad? And 'it doesn't matter' isn't a valid response.
It's not resignation or rationalization. It's countering you constantly saying "We're paying Josh and Caedin money when we could use the money for a contributor!" Those guys are not preventing Marquette from signing a contributor.
And you're kidding yourself if you think nobody was told they were getting a paycut.
Tre never had a starting role and hardly had any minutes to cut. So why did he leave?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 04:54:37 PMIt's not resignation or rationalization. It's countering you constantly saying "We're paying Josh and Caedin money when we could use the money for a contributor!" Those guys are not preventing Marquette from signing a contributor.
And you're kidding yourself if you think nobody was told they were getting a paycut.
Tre never had a starting role and hardly had any minutes to cut. So why did he leave?
What? 'Constantly saying?' Um, you clearly have me confused with someone else. I don't think we're missing out on guys because of what they're getting paid. But some people want to say we shouldn't overpay for guys when we're already doing that.
Answer my question.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 04:35:10 PMGive us a name. Tell us who was still available when Sheek walked. Tell us with confidence who you think we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes.
If you can't do that you're not trying to have an honest argument.
You ask me to state,
with confidence, what a 20-year-old kid I've never met would think/do ... and accuse me of not having an honest argument?
LOL. Sorry, I lack your apparent skills to read the minds of strangers.
But I'll play along and name a couple:
Xavien Staton (former top 40 recruit transferred from BYU to Oregon State)
James Brown (former top 125 recruit transferred from UNC to Howard)
Both of these guys are young, have upside, committed after Sheek entered the portal and, IMO, would have been better options than what we have,
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 04:37:07 PMGo look at the pool of guys that are left that are not seniors. Report back.
What pool? The one Sheek was in?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 05:01:24 PMYou ask me to state, with confidence, what a 20-year-old kid I've never met would think/do ... and accuse me of not having an honest argument?
LOL. Sorry, I lack your apparent skills to read the minds of strangers.
But I'll play along and name a couple:
Xavien Staton (former top 40 recruit transferred from BYU to Oregon State)
James Brown (former top 125 recruit transferred from UNC to Howard)
I asked you to name names that Marquette could have gotten, not to mind read. Not some hypothetical, and you complained even about that. Then you did it. Good! I knew you could do it, which is why I asked!
Now we can have a real conversation about why not those guys. Weeks ago, I put forth names and no one wanted to talk about them either. This place is such a bitch fest it becomes intolerable sometimes.
I think that Xavien probably wouldn't be an option since he seems like he is tied to living west of the Rockies.
James Brown would have been a nice fit, I agree. Should have been able to outbid Howard despite its prestige. Plus him being from Aurora you would think would have helped.
Who knows with either of them really. Maybe Shaka and the others didn't kick the tires, maybe they did and didn't like what they heard, maybe they said thanks but no thanks!
Thanks for playing along and being willing to have a real discussion.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 05:13:16 PMI asked you to name names that Marquette could have gotten, not to mind read.
Sorry, but you asked who "we could have gotten
that would have agreed to backup minutes."
How could I know - with confidence, no less - who would have agreed to backup minutes without knowing/speaking to that person or reading his mind?
QuoteI think that Xavien probably wouldn't be an option since he seems like he is tied to living west of the Rockies.
One of his final four as a Class of 2025 high school recruit was Michigan.
QuoteWho knows with either of them really. Maybe Shaka and the others didn't kick the tires, maybe they did and didn't like what they heard, maybe they said thanks but no thanks!
Agreed.
All of which is another way of saying the coaches made a choice. Not filling Sheek's spot because they didn't love the options is still a choice.
I think it's a bad choice, but I'll happily be proven wrong if CH makes that long-awaited leap.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 04, 2026, 04:32:33 PMSS loves the idea of 18 playing every game. That's why we're where we're at.
#LastYear
Will someone please tell me how to mute people?
Quote from: onlyjoinedtoblockposts on June 04, 2026, 08:10:31 PMWill someone please tell me how to mute people?
Click on your profile name in the upper left hand corner, then Ignore List in the drop down, then add the user name of the person you want to ignore.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 05:25:08 PMSorry, but you asked who "we could have gotten that would have agreed to backup minutes."
How could I know - with confidence, no less - who would have agreed to backup minutes without knowing/speaking to that person or reading his mind?
One of his final four as a Class of 2025 high school recruit was Michigan.
Agreed.
All of which is another way of saying the coaches made a choice. Not filling Sheek's spot because they didn't love the options is still a choice.
I think it's a bad choice, but I'll happily be proven wrong if CH makes that long-awaited leap.
That's the point I was making.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 04, 2026, 04:52:07 PMThe staff had targets with months left in the season. The staff vetted a ton of players. They were well prepared for the portal. Sheek agreed to return. There is no way that you can be prepared for every situation in today's day and age. You're kidding yourself if you say you can.
ABC young man, ABC. always be cruitin'
Programs with a more robust network address the massive hole sheek left us with instead of shrugging your shoulders and saying, "well we kicked the tires on a few guys, but we're good."
Quote from: panda on June 05, 2026, 06:57:25 AMABC young man, ABC. always be cruitin'
Programs with a more robust network address the massive hole sheek left us with instead of shrugging your shoulders and saying, "well we kicked the tires on a few guys, but we're good."
That's code for, "we have a fourth year guy in our program with a twinkle in his eye - more importantly, bro wears 18 in honor of mf'in me!!! Let's roll!!"
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 04, 2026, 05:13:16 PMI asked you to name names that Marquette could have gotten, not to mind read. Not some hypothetical, and you complained even about that. Then you did it. Good! I knew you could do it, which is why I asked!
Now we can have a real conversation about why not those guys. Weeks ago, I put forth names and no one wanted to talk about them either. This place is such a bitch fest it becomes intolerable sometimes.
I think that Xavien probably wouldn't be an option since he seems like he is tied to living west of the Rockies.
James Brown would have been a nice fit, I agree. Should have been able to outbid Howard despite its prestige. Plus him being from Aurora you would think would have helped.
Who knows with either of them really. Maybe Shaka and the others didn't kick the tires, maybe they did and didn't like what they heard, maybe they said thanks but no thanks!
Thanks for playing along and being willing to have a real discussion.
To you and Pakuni. what make you think James Brown is better than Caedin? What I see is that there's two years of end of game mop up time at UNC that looks like he is not very good.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 05, 2026, 07:50:12 AMTo you and Pakuni. what make you think James Brown is better than Caedin? What I see is that there's two years of end of game mop up time at UNC that looks like he is not very good.
The name alone gets him there.
PS.. UNC 2024-25...
Cade Tyson.. 16.4% minutes played. 108 ORtg, 15.5% usage. 50.0% eFG%.
and den... Minnesota 2025-26...
87.9% (!!), 123.9, 24.4%, 59.3%.
Norf Cakalaka sometimes has really good players sit on their bench.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:00:14 PMBecause providing an excuse for why they couldn't get a single guy to replace Sheek sounds like a coping mechanism. Shaka said he kicked the tires on some guys, but decided to go with what he had. I think he did that because while he knows the dropoff from Fru to Caedin is big, it's much bigger than he believes.
And compensation that did not reflect their expected contributions? We already got some of those anyway.
It only sounds like an excuse because you're convinced for some reason it's not a realistic scenario, which it absolutely is.
Also, Shaka not realizing the drop off from Fru to Caedin is nonsense. It's why they're paying Fru big money to begin with.
Additionally, Josh Clark being paid to provide minimal contributions is not remotely the same as paying a backup big starter-level money.
Some of the scenarios you come up with are something else.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 04:17:17 PMCoach's decision.
I don't think, and have never said, MU is unable to land capable players in the portal. That's been the excuse trotted out by people defending the lack of a Sheek replacement, not by me.
I think MU is able to land capable players, and they proved that with Fru and Minnesale. Not landing others, including one to replace Sheek, was a choice. Shaka's hands weren't tied here. He made a choice, and it's that choice that has some people frustrated.
It's not an excuse. I'm not defending the lack of a Sheek replacement. It's disappointing. I simply accept there are logical reasons why that player has not been added. It's not that complicated.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2026, 04:33:53 PMThere are almost certainly bigs expecting to start for mid-majors or poorly funded P6 programs who could have been lured to Marquette with the promise of backing up this year followed by a great opportunity - because who else is on the roster? - to earn more minutes (and $$$) in 2027-28 and beyond.
If you're absolutely certain, who were these bigs that were available when Sheek entered the portal?
Where have some since gone and who is remaining?
If you're so certain of this, it shouldn't be difficult to provide that info.
Quote from: panda on June 04, 2026, 04:47:03 PMThis is where Shaka/staff/program's portal naivety comes in to play big time. Targets can be assessed and contacted at any time during the season/off season to discuss the staff want and opportunity within the program. Waiting for players to enter the portal is most often, too late and will lead to far too much competition. The staff needs to modernize their approach or will for a third season in a row, fail to meet expectations.
Why would the staff be doing this for a big when Sheek was expected to return?
Don't let common sense get in the way.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on June 04, 2026, 03:39:18 PMI would like to see a photo. If not the vehicle then the plate. Who knows maybe Josh got a great deal with "Clark Bars".
I have a photo of the X5M in question. It is purple.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:50:12 PMOr maybe he'd been here four years and was told time to move on after losing his starting role and since he couldn't stay healthy?
"It's fine he's on the team, he took a paycut!" As Shooter said above, it's resignation followed by rationalization.
Since I answered your question before, maybe you or VBMG can answer the one you keep dancing around: Is it smart to pour four years of money and resources into a player you yourselves think is bad? And 'it doesn't matter' isn't a valid response.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 04, 2026, 04:58:36 PMWhat? 'Constantly saying?' Um, you clearly have me confused with someone else. I don't think we're missing out on guys because of what they're getting paid. But some people want to say we shouldn't overpay for guys when we're already doing that.
Answer my question.
This is disingenuous. IMO. Your view appears to be Clark or Hamilton being paid anything is an overpay. It feels like no answer is going to be acceptable for you.
First, it sounds like we agree on whatever those guys are being paid would not prohibit Marquette from adding another player.
I don't know what they are making, but it seems logical to believe that their pay is on the lower end of the compensation structure for the team.
Having those guys for practice and for depth has value. With 15 roster spots, you don't need significant contributors at every spot.
So I don't think "overpaying" those guys is remotely in the same universe as dropping starter-level money on a back-up big to play 8-14 MPG.
I also haven't given up on Clark due to his length.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 05, 2026, 08:22:36 AMWhy would the staff be doing this for a big when Sheek was expected to return?
Don't let common sense get in the way.
Because preparing for every eventuality is their job. This is where having an actual GM, not some lowly staffer who kinda sorta does similar things, might be a good idea.
Marquette has every reason to believe Shaka will be head coach this upcoming season. If Shaka pulls a Tony Bennett tomorrow, it would be professional malpractice for Broeker not to have a list of vetted potential replacements at his fingertips.
It also speaks to the naivete panda mentioned. If at this moment in college sports, Shaka and Co. don't understand they can lose any player at any time, then they're not paying attention.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 05, 2026, 07:50:12 AMTo you and Pakuni. what make you think James Brown is better than Caedin? What I see is that there's two years of end of game mop up time at UNC that looks like he is not very good.
There's obviously some projection involved, but I'm willing to bet on the younger, taller, more athletic player with higher pedigree. Especially when that player has outperformed Caedin by pretty much every metric, albeit in limited minutes (due largely to injury).
On the one hand, some folks are speculating wildly about what kind of money players on the Marquette roster are making.
On the other hand, some folks are speculating wildly about which bigs in the portal would have been willing to accept whatever amount of money to be Fru's backup.
On the third hand, lots of folks are simply venting about what Shaka did or didn't do.
On the fourth hand, a few folks actually want to discuss Colton Crowdis in the Colton Crowdis thread - the fools!
On the fifth hand, JB's schtick.
We've got more hands than Vishnu!
Quote from: Pakuni on June 05, 2026, 08:36:30 AMBecause preparing for every eventuality is their job. This is where having an actual GM, not some lowly staffer who kinda sorta does similar things, might be a good idea.
Marquette has every reason to believe Shaka will be head coach this upcoming season. If Shaka pulls a Tony Bennett tomorrow, it would be professional malpractice for Broeker not to have a list of vetted potential replacements at his fingertips.
It also speaks to the naivete panda mentioned. If at this moment in college sports, Shaka and Co. don't understand they can lose any player at any time, then they're not paying attention.
It's pretty clear a "lowly staffer" was not leading that effort. If that's the impression you got from the Paint Touches article, I'm not really sure what to say.
There are realistic limitations to preparing for "every eventuality". Resources are not unlimited. There was no reason at that point of the offseason to believe a Sheek departure was even a remote possibility. It has also been stated that did contact options after he departed.
Much like your starting QB to back-up center comparison, the coach short-list comparison is awful.
There's no reason to think the staff doesn't realize they could lose any player at any time. But like in real life, you have to prioritize where your time is spent. I guarantee you are not prepared for "every eventuality" that might come along in your job or life.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 05, 2026, 08:22:36 AMWhy would the staff be doing this for a big when Sheek was expected to return?
Don't let common sense get in the way.
Fru very possibly could have only been here 1 season before legislation was passed a few weeks ago and Parham doesn't have a natural backup at the four. Even with Sheek coming back, a proactive unit would have had conversations with possible players regarding opportunities maybe this year and definitely next year. My fear with this staff is they are still abiding but antiquated rules which don't exist anymore or are refusing to commit to an actual modern day recruitment strategy. I also realize their half hearted efforts following Sheek's departure are due to their affinity/belief in CH18.
Quote from: panda on June 05, 2026, 10:42:17 AMFru very possibly could have only been here 1 season before legislation was passed a few weeks ago and Parham doesn't have a natural backup at the four. Even with Sheek coming back, a proactive unit would have had conversations with possible players regarding opportunities maybe this year and definitely next year. My fear with this staff is they are still abiding but antiquated rules which don't exist anymore or are refusing to commit to an actual modern day recruitment strategy. I also realize their half hearted efforts following Sheek's departure are due to their affinity/belief in CH18.
I feel like a 6-7 well built Owens at forward is a pretty solid size for a PF backup. Certainly more natural than some of the 6-6 PF we've had who went on to the NBA.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 05, 2026, 10:00:12 AMThere are realistic limitations to preparing for "every eventuality". Resources are not unlimited. There was no reason at that point of the offseason to believe a Sheek departure was even a remote possibility. It has also been stated that did contact options after he departed.
This is great.
Over many weeks, when I've said that having several scholarship players on the roster who won't play is a waste of not only financial resources, but staff time, you scoffed at the idea that such resources would be so limited.
Now, the excuse for why they were unprepared for Sheek's departure is ... the staff doesn't have time to prepare because resources aren't unlimited.
Huh.
QuoteMuch like your starting QB to back-up center comparison, the coach short-list comparison is awful.
It's not. These are exceptionally well paid professionals whose duties include being prepared for any possibility. As you admit, losing any player to the portal is a possibility.
To be clear, I don't know that they weren't prepared. That's just the excuse being offered by some here for the lack of Sheek replacement.
I'm more inclined to believe they just chose not to go get a replacement and are content to run it back with CH and JC. This, IMO, was their choice, not a circumstance beyond their control.
QuoteBut like in real life, you have to prioritize where your time is spent.
Exactly. And MU's staff - at least according to those trotting out the "they didn't expect Sheek to leave" excuse - apparently is prioritizing its time in ways other than being prepared for players leaving.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 05, 2026, 10:53:36 AMI feel like a 6-7 well built Owens at forward is a pretty solid size for a PF backup. Certainly more natural than some of the 6-6 PF we've had who went on to the NBA.
Right. And we can just play a little smaller for short periods of time when Fru and Royce aren't in at the same time. We aren't doing line changes like hockey. Alex E has a bunch of size on him as well. He can occupy some of Royce's 4 minutes.
Also, just to bring this thread back to Colton Crowdis, his bio is up on the official Marquette website.
https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/colton-crowdis/8633
Man some posters here really believe that a competent coaching staff with "modern" approaches to roster building simply have a list of perfect replacement players for every spot on a roster, and all they have to do is ask the player nicely and the replacement just comes on board if the staff simply takes the time to make one phone call.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 05, 2026, 08:15:00 AMIt only sounds like an excuse because you're convinced for some reason it's not a realistic scenario, which it absolutely is.
Also, Shaka not realizing the drop off from Fru to Caedin is nonsense. It's why they're paying Fru big money to begin with.
Additionally, Josh Clark being paid to provide minimal contributions is not remotely the same as paying a backup big starter-level money.
Some of the scenarios you come up with are something else.
It sounds like an excuse because that's all you guys ever offer. Every criticism you and wades utter must be immediately followed by an excuse.
"Last year was bad, but it's okay, Shaka is taking transfers now"
"Sheek should've been replaced, but money, culture, availability, etc. made it impossible"
"Caedin is bad, but * wades posting history *"
If Shaka thought the gap between Fru and Caedin was as wide as it actually is, he wouldn't have just looked at a few guys and shrugged. He would've replaced Sheek.
I don't really care that Clark is on the team for another year. But if he has nothing to contribute again, he shouldn't be back.
And for you to say the scenarios I come up with are something else when you've come up with every scenario under the sun as to why Shaka didn't replace Sheek is rich.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 05, 2026, 11:13:01 AMMan some posters here really believe that a competent coaching staff with "modern" approaches to roster building simply have a list of perfect replacement players for every spot on a roster, and all they have to do is ask the player nicely and the replacement just comes on board if the staff simply takes the time to make one phone call.
Reactive vs. proactive on the recruiting trail will be the difference in success and failure now with the open player movement. We are in the reactive phase
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PMIt sounds like an excuse because that's all you guys ever offer. Every criticism you and wades utter must be immediately followed by an excuse.
"Last year was bad, but it's okay, Shaka is taking transfers now"
"Sheek should've been replaced, but money, culture, availability, etc. made it impossible"
"Caedin is bad, but * wades posting history *"
If Shaka thought the gap between Fru and Caedin was as wide as it actually is, he wouldn't have just looked at a few guys and shrugged. He would've replaced Sheek.
I don't really care that Clark is on the team for another year. But if he has nothing to contribute again, he shouldn't be back.
And for you to say the scenarios I come up with are something else when you've come up with every scenario under the sun as to why Shaka didn't replace Sheek is rich.
The good news is you say you don't believe that Josh or Caedin make so much money that we can't land contributors, and there is still a scholarship open to add to this roster. So they don't seem to be the problem in terms of filling in the hole Sheek left.
I think most people who aren't freaking out because of one of 15 scholarships is being used by Caedin Hamilton (which is all but about 5 posters on here) aren't really making excuses, they're expecting the team to be pretty good. Is it a perfect roster? Of course not. The best in the country? Of course not. Most people realize that Caedin being on the roster, or the backup center position, won't be what prevents this team from being competitive in the BE. A few are having mental meltdowns because they apparently think it will.
Quote from: panda on June 05, 2026, 12:07:41 PMReactive vs. proactive on the recruiting trail will be the difference in success and failure now with the open player movement. We are in the reactive phase
Like I said, some here think that if you have a list ready to go of players who could perfectly fill every roster spot that might come open for any reason, then we'll just have to make "One call, that's all!" If Shaka wasn't asleep at the wheel, he'd have Gruber on line one, ready to make that call for him to the perfect replacement for whoever leaves. If Nigel suddenly leaves tomorrow, a competent staff would just have a potential BE POY point guard on their list of replacements and they'd have the player in by Monday.
People are spending an inordinate amount of time worried about the bench. In reality, the bench is historically a revolving collection of players like Dwight Burke, Chris Grimm, Derrick Wilson, and Karon Bradley.
Going off memory, I estimate MU had a quality bench about 5 times in the last 25 years. It's not really a big deal.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 05, 2026, 12:12:31 PMThe good news is you say you don't believe that Josh or Caedin make so much money that we can't land contributors, and there is still a scholarship open to add to this roster. So they don't seem to be the problem in terms of filling in the hole Sheek left.
I think most people who aren't freaking out because of one of 15 scholarships is being used by Caedin Hamilton (which is all but about 5 posters on here) aren't really making excuses, they're expecting the team to be pretty good. Is it a perfect roster? Of course not. The best in the country? Of course not. Most people realize that Caedin being on the roster, or the backup center position, won't be what prevents this team from being competitive in the BE. A few are having mental meltdowns because they apparently think it will.
Like I said, some here think that if you have a list ready to go of players who could perfectly fill every roster spot that might come open for any reason, then we'll just have to make "One call, that's all!" If Shaka wasn't asleep at the wheel, he'd have Gruber on line one, ready to make that call for him to the perfect replacement for whoever leaves. If Nigel suddenly leaves tomorrow, a competent staff would just have a potential BE POY point guard on their list of replacements and they'd have the player in by Monday.
You mean there is not a Door Dash for backup portal basketball players?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 05, 2026, 12:12:31 PMThe good news is you say you don't believe that Josh or Caedin make so much money that we can't land contributors, and there is still a scholarship open to add to this roster. So they don't seem to be the problem in terms of filling in the hole Sheek left.
I think most people who aren't freaking out because of one of 15 scholarships is being used by Caedin Hamilton (which is all but about 5 posters on here) aren't really making excuses, they're expecting the team to be pretty good. Is it a perfect roster? Of course not. The best in the country? Of course not. Most people realize that Caedin being on the roster, or the backup center position, won't be what prevents this team from being competitive in the BE. A few are having mental meltdowns because they apparently think it will.
All you've done is offer excuses. And since none of them have passed muster, you're now resorting to 'who cares' and accusing others of having meltdowns.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 05, 2026, 10:59:13 AMThis is great.
Over many weeks, when I've said that having several scholarship players on the roster who won't play is a waste of not only financial resources, but staff time, you scoffed at the idea that such resources would be so limited.
Now, the excuse for why they were unprepared for Sheek's departure is ... the staff doesn't have time to prepare because resources aren't unlimited.
Huh.
Huh, indeed. You're conflating very different things in yet another bad comparison. The resources spent (time, money) on developing two guys on your roster do not adversely impact the ability to develop your other players. It does not adversely impact the ability to add another player to your team, especially considering different resources are responsible for those things.
Again, the staff not expecting Sheek's departure is not an "excuse" and I find it bizarre that it might be viewed that way.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 05, 2026, 10:59:13 AMIt's not. These are exceptionally well paid professionals whose duties include being prepared for any possibility. As you admit, losing any player to the portal is a possibility.
To be clear, I don't know that they weren't prepared. That's just the excuse being offered by some here for the lack of Sheek replacement.
I'm more inclined to believe they just chose not to go get a replacement and are content to run it back with CH and JC. This, IMO, was their choice, not a circumstance beyond their control.
It absolutely is. Comparing different positions across different sports is useless.
It's certainly possible the staff could have added another player above Hamilton and Clark on the depth chart that would have made sense financially. I acknowledge that possibility and that they could be making a mistake.
The problem is you continuously refuse to acknowledge the other possibility as realistic and keep using the word "excuse". You can't have it both ways.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 05, 2026, 10:59:13 AMExactly. And MU's staff - at least according to those trotting out the "they didn't expect Sheek to leave" excuse - apparently is prioritizing its time in ways other than being prepared for players leaving.
I almost passed out from rolling my eyes at this one. That's just lazy. When you have an agreement in place with a player to stay, AFTER adding a starter in front of him, plus having two other centers behind him, allocating your time to seeing what other backup bigs are available if Sheek is poached at the last second, is ludicrous.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 05, 2026, 10:53:36 AMI feel like a 6-7 well built Owens at forward is a pretty solid size for a PF backup. Certainly more natural than some of the 6-6 PF we've had who went on to the NBA.
I did bring this up as a possibility a few weeks ago with Owens at the top of a diamond half court 3/4 court trap type defense to go small for a few minutes at a time during foul trouble etc. I don't see how anyone could watch him the past two seasons and think he could match up with a bigger four for extended minutes though.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PMIt sounds like an excuse because that's all you guys ever offer. Every criticism you and wades utter must be immediately followed by an excuse.
"Last year was bad, but it's okay, Shaka is taking transfers now"
"Sheek should've been replaced, but money, culture, availability, etc. made it impossible"
"Caedin is bad, but * wades posting history *"
If Shaka thought the gap between Fru and Caedin was as wide as it actually is, he wouldn't have just looked at a few guys and shrugged. He would've replaced Sheek.
I don't really care that Clark is on the team for another year. But if he has nothing to contribute again, he shouldn't be back.
And for you to say the scenarios I come up with are something else when you've come up with every scenario under the sun as to why Shaka didn't replace Sheek is rich.
More lazy nonsense. Let's go through each of them.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PM"Last year was bad, but it's okay, Shaka is taking transfers now"
I'm not sure anybody has said that. I know I certainly haven't.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PM"Sheek should've been replaced, but money, culture, availability, etc. made it impossible"
Once again, not something I said. There's a difference between that and accounting for the POSSIBILITY that money, culture, talent, and availability did not result in a match. And even if there was a match on those factors, the player would have to WANT to come to Marquette, which often seems overlooked in these conversations.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PM"Caedin is bad, but * wades posting history *"
Caedin has certainly been bad and being optimistic about what he could bring this year isn't logical. But Wades is exactly right in regard to his usage as the season went on.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PMIf Shaka thought the gap between Fru and Caedin was as wide as it actually is, he wouldn't have just looked at a few guys and shrugged. He would've replaced Sheek.
Wrong. That has nothing to do with a Fru/Caedin gap. It has everything to do with a Sheek/Caedin + Clark gap compared to Hypothetical addition/Caedin + Clark gap.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 12:04:51 PMI don't really care that Clark is on the team for another year. But if he has nothing to contribute again, he shouldn't be back.
And for you to say the scenarios I come up with are something else when you've come up with every scenario under the sun as to why Shaka didn't replace Sheek is rich.
I've essentially listed one scenario in regard to why Sheek wasn't replaced that you refuse to accept as a realistic possibility.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 05, 2026, 01:04:28 PMMore lazy nonsense. Let's go through each of them.
I'm not sure anybody has said that. I know I certainly haven't.
Once again, not something I said. There's a difference between that and accounting for the POSSIBILITY that money, culture, talent, and availability did not result in a match. And even if there was a match on those factors, the player would have to WANT to come to Marquette, which often seems overlooked in these conversations.
Caedin has certainly been bad and being optimistic about what he could bring this year isn't logical. But Wades is exactly right in regard to his usage as the season went on.
Wrong. That has nothing to do with a Fru/Caedin gap. It has everything to do with a Sheek/Caedin + Clark gap compared to Hypothetical addition/Caedin + Clark gap.
I've essentially listed one scenario in regard to why Sheek wasn't replaced that you refuse to accept as a realistic possibility.
First one has been wades attitude throughout, but okay, I won't attribute that one to you.
Second one is an excuse.
Clinging to this 8.5 minutes down the stretch stuff is an excuse. His minutes diminished the year before too. Rotations tighten down the stretch. And if he is a back of the bench player, he should've been asked to go.
I probably framed the Fru/Caedin gap stuff incorrectly. The point I was trying to make is that Shaka thinks Caedin is a capable backup C so he didn't replace Sheek.
The thing is, we all agree Caedin is bad. But what we're seeing is the cognitive dissonance of knowing Caedin is bad while Shaka doesn't, and you can't criticize Shaka without then excusing him. I like Shaka. He's a good coach. But it's completely reasonable to criticize him for the time, money, and resources he's wasted on Caedin and continued misevaluation of his talent level.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 01:28:30 PMFirst one has been wades attitude throughout, but okay, I won't attribute that one to you.
Second one is an excuse.
Clinging to this 8.5 minutes down the stretch stuff is an excuse. His minutes diminished the year before too. Rotations tighten down the stretch. And if he is a back of the bench player, he should've been asked to go.
I probably framed the Fru/Caedin gap stuff incorrectly. The point I was trying to make is that Shaka thinks Caedin is a capable backup C so he didn't replace Sheek.
The thing is, we all agree Caedin is bad. But what we're seeing is the cognitive dissonance of knowing Caedin is bad while Shaka doesn't, and you can't criticize Shaka without then excusing him. I like Shaka. He's a good coach. But it's completely reasonable to criticize him for the time, money, and resources he's wasted on Caedin and continued misevaluation of his talent level.
Excuses are just reasons you don't like.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 05, 2026, 01:47:33 PMExcuses are just reasons you don't like.
Not when every single criticism is met with one.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 01:28:30 PMFirst one has been wades attitude throughout, but okay, I won't attribute that one to you.
Second one is an excuse.
Clinging to this 8.5 minutes down the stretch stuff is an excuse. His minutes diminished the year before too. Rotations tighten down the stretch. And if he is a back of the bench player, he should've been asked to go.
I probably framed the Fru/Caedin gap stuff incorrectly. The point I was trying to make is that Shaka thinks Caedin is a capable backup C so he didn't replace Sheek.
The thing is, we all agree Caedin is bad. But what we're seeing is the cognitive dissonance of knowing Caedin is bad while Shaka doesn't, and you can't criticize Shaka without then excusing him. I like Shaka. He's a good coach. But it's completely reasonable to criticize him for the time, money, and resources he's wasted on Caedin and continued misevaluation of his talent level.
Not sure where I've said last year was bad but Shaka is using the portal so we're good. You're confusing not freaking out because we don't have an awesome backup 5 with thinking using the portal fixes everything.
What I think was fixed was that we addressed the biggest needs on this team, and returned our 3 best players. I think things are "okay" because I expect Marquette to be a tournament team and to be competing as one of the better teams in the Big East this year. Do I hope for better rosters in the future? Yes. But do I realize that most of this team's talent still has years left in the program if Shaka and the staff are able to retain them? Also yes. So I'm "okay" with having what I consider to be a Tournament team heading into the season, knowing there's further upside for the roster in the future.
But again, don't let me stop you and a few others from having a breakdown because Caedin Hamilton is on the roster in every single thread, 5 months from basketball being played.
By the way, you think everyone on a 15 person roster needs to NOT be a "back end of a bench player" or they should be asked to go?
Let me know the next time a college basketball (or pro, or high school) program has a 15 man rotation. The next time one does will be the first.
Danny Hurley's so dumb that he kept Richie Springs around for a redshirt year, a redshirt freshman year, a redshirt sophomore year, and a redshirt junior year despite never averaging more than 1.3 points, 1.1 rebounds, or 0.2 assists per game. Obviously that really hurt their chances keeping a useless player around for 4 years, especially when roster limits were even smaller. Maybe they would've won something if Hurley gave him the boot when it was clear after 3 years the guy would never be a contributor.
Oh wait...
Quote from: wadesworld on June 05, 2026, 01:51:24 PMNot sure where I've said last year was bad but Shaka is using the portal so we're good. You're confusing not freaking out because we don't have an awesome backup 5 with thinking using the portal fixes everything.
What I think was fixed was that we addressed the biggest needs on this team, and returned our 3 best players. I think things are "okay" because I expect Marquette to be a tournament team and to be competing as one of the better teams in the Big East this year. Do I hope for better rosters in the future? Yes. But do I realize that most of this team's talent still has years left in the program if Shaka and the staff are able to retain them? Also yes. So I'm "okay" with having what I consider to be a Tournament team heading into the season, knowing there's further upside for the roster in the future.
But again, don't let me stop you and a few others from having a breakdown because Caedin Hamilton is on the roster in every single thread, 5 months from basketball being played.
By the way, you think everyone on a 15 person roster needs to NOT be a "back end of a bench player" or they should be asked to go?
Let me know the next time a college basketball (or pro, or high school) program has a 15 man rotation. The next time one does will be the first.
Danny Hurley's so dumb that he kept Richie Springs around for a redshirt year, a redshirt freshman year, a redshirt sophomore year, and a redshirt junior year despite never averaging more than 1.3 points, 1.1 rebounds, or 0.2 assists per game. Obviously that really hurt their chances keeping a useless player around for 4 years, especially when roster limits were even smaller. Maybe they would've won something if Hurley gave him the boot when it was clear after 3 years the guy would never be a contributor.
Oh wait...
The point I've made is very simple. It's just that any criticism of Shaka is your personal bat signal and you have to swoop in and excuse it. I think spending four years on a back of the bench player is not wise, but Caedin isn't a back of the bench player. He's gonna play. And when you don't have a reasonable defense, you just resort to claiming others are having a meltdown as you pitch a fit that anyone dare criticize the coach.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on June 05, 2026, 01:48:55 PMNot when every single criticism is met with one.
That's not what's happening. Reasoning you disagree with doesn't mean it's an excuse.
A few things related to the conversation ...
1. Did Shaka make a "choice" - choosing Hamilton/Clark over whatever backup center might have been available after he learned that Sheek was leaving?
Absolutely. Although nobody here knows which backup centers would have been willing to come to Marquette to be backup centers for backup-center dollars (or at least "market-rate" dollars), it definitely was Shaka's decision. And it will have been a failure on Shaka's part if Hamilton and/or Clark can't provide serviceable minutes and if that negatively impacts MU's record next season.
2. When it came to the portal, was Shaka reactive instead of proactive?
Well, Nigel James would have been one of the top players in the portal had Shaka not proactively worked to keep NJ happy. Parham and Stevens would have been sought after, too, but Shaka proactively worked to keep them in MU uniforms. In the open market, Shaka proactively pursued and landed one of the top-rated bigs available, and he also signed a well-regarded 2/3. However, one certainly could argue that Shaka was reactive (and didn't deliver) after Sheek left. So in my book, that's a 5-1 reading on the Proactive/Reactive Meter ... which seems A-OK, no?
3. In post #369 of this thread, should Hards Alumni have mentioned Crowdis and posted a link about him?
Of course not! The "Colton Crowdis committed" thread is obviously about Shaka's portal failures or successes and about 18 being the cause of all things wrong in the world. How dare Hards pretend otherwise?
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2026, 02:39:15 PMA few things related to the conversation ...
1. Did Shaka make a "choice" - choosing Hamilton/Clark over whatever backup center might have been available after he learned that Sheek was leaving?
Absolutely. Although nobody here knows which backup centers would have been willing to come to Marquette to be backup centers for backup-center dollars (or at least "market-rate" dollars), it definitely was Shaka's decision. And it will have been a failure on Shaka's part if Hamilton and/or Clark can't provide serviceable minutes and if that negatively impacts MU's record next season.
2. When it came to the portal, was Shaka reactive instead of proactive?
Well, Nigel James would have been one of the top players in the portal had Shaka not proactively worked to keep NJ happy. Parham and Stevens would have been sought after, too, but Shaka proactively worked to keep them in MU uniforms. In the open market, Shaka proactively pursued and landed one of the top-rated bigs available, and he also signed a well-regarded 2/3. However, one certainly could argue that Shaka was reactive (and didn't deliver) after Sheek left. So in my book, that's a 5-1 reading on the Proactive/Reactive Meter ... which seems A-OK, no?
3. In post #369 of this thread, should Hards Alumni have mentioned Crowdis and posted a link about him?
Of course not! The "Colton Crowdis committed" thread is obviously about Shaka's portal failures or successes and about 18 being the cause of all things wrong in the world. How dare Hards pretend otherwise?
As always, Hards was just making an excuse for Shaka.
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2026, 02:39:15 PMA few things related to the conversation ...
1. Did Shaka make a "choice" - choosing Hamilton/Clark over whatever backup center might have been available after he learned that Sheek was leaving?
Absolutely. Although nobody here knows which backup centers would have been willing to come to Marquette to be backup centers for backup-center dollars (or at least "market-rate" dollars), it definitely was Shaka's decision. And it will have been a failure on Shaka's part if Hamilton and/or Clark can't provide serviceable minutes and if that negatively impacts MU's record next season.
Well stated.
I don't have an issue with the idea of 18 on our roster. If he's a great teammate, and a big body that can help in practice --- awesome, I love it.
The issue is that SS has displayed irrational and borderline insane/criminal behavior regarding 18 in the past and I fear he's going to do it again.
With Sheek, my hope was he would be so good (and 18 so bad) that 18 would be relegated to walk on type scenarios. I did have a hint of doubt as well, so I understand why Sheek decided to explore transfer options -- e.g. he was worried about SS's irrational actions re: 18 and thought they may repeat here in year 4.
SS is hopeful about the promising potential of 18. If he doesn't insert him (pawz) into the first half of games as part of the regular rotation - GREAT. I'm all good. But I don't believe that will be the case - I think SS's plan is to play 18 regularly. Sure, not tons of minutes - but having him coming off the bench early in games as a normal thing was f**king nuts last year and it will be again this year.
#LastYear
How about Crowdis, huh?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 05, 2026, 04:54:03 PMHow about Crowdis, huh?
Wrong thread.
This one is for JB's "18 is gonna play 36 mpg" schtick.
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2026, 04:57:56 PMWrong thread.
This one is for JB's "18 is gonna play 36 mpg" schtick.
#FakeNews #Lies
We all saw the stunningly bad decisions by SS last season.
Schtick.
Quote from: MU82 on June 05, 2026, 05:28:39 PMSchtick.
Tell us more about your Friday night plans.
Why is a thread about a future 10th man 16 pages.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 05, 2026, 04:54:03 PMHow about Crowdis, huh?
Has he been upgraded from "practice player" status? If so, I'm all for some Crowdis talk. What have people been hearing?
Quote from: Badgerhater on June 05, 2026, 12:43:40 PMYou mean there is not a Door Dash for backup portal basketball players?
Nigel is likely gone after this season. Maybe the Door Dash approach works. However...I would like to think Shaka & staff have a list of 10-12 pg's they'll aggressively pursue thru the portal next spring. Same regarding bigs, since they'll need to replace Fru. It's critical MU makes the tourney this year imo because another losing season and out-of-sight-out-of-mind sets in akin to Wisconsin football. Winning sells.
Quote from: Viper on June 06, 2026, 08:08:09 AMNigel is likely gone after this season. Maybe the Door Dash approach works. However...I would like to think Shaka & staff have a list of 10-12 pg's they'll aggressively pursue thru the portal next spring. Same regarding bigs, since they'll need to replace Fru. It's critical MU makes the tourney this year imo because another losing season and out-of-sight-out-of-mind sets in akin to Wisconsin football. Winning sells.
Why would Nigel "likely" be gone after this season?
Quote from: Viper on June 06, 2026, 08:08:09 AMNigel is likely gone after this season.
I don't think this is a forgone conclusion at all. He'll make more in college than the NBA and his family grew up Marquette fans because his dad loved Al.
Never say never in the portal era, but NJ wouldn't have gotten significantly more on the open market unless he took it to the eleventh hour like Milan, and I fully expect Marquette to pay what it takes to retain him.
Quote from: Viper on June 06, 2026, 08:08:09 AMNigel is likely gone after this season. Maybe the Door Dash approach works. However...I would like to think Shaka & staff have a list of 10-12 pg's they'll aggressively pursue thru the portal next spring. Same regarding bigs, since they'll need to replace Fru. It's critical MU makes the tourney this year imo because another losing season and out-of-sight-out-of-mind sets in akin to Wisconsin football. Winning sells.
Always referencing U of W any chance you get.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 06, 2026, 08:50:53 AMWhy would Nigel "likely" be gone after this season?
Because really good players like Nigel want to play at elite programs. See Blackwell, John.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on June 06, 2026, 09:16:09 AMBecause really good players like Nigel want to play at elite programs. See Blackwell, John.
Hard to quantify how dumb this comment is.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 06, 2026, 08:50:53 AMWhy would Nigel "likely" be gone after this season?
Im thinking Nigel will be a 1st rd pick if his game keeps movin' up as I anticipate it will. Or, and if not, another program similar to Blackwell leaving WeRFinalFour's beloved Wisconsin for the windfall with Duke.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 06, 2026, 09:36:12 AMHard to quantify how dumb this comment is.
...shiit you post. Please explain.
Quote from: Viper on June 06, 2026, 11:21:54 AMIm thinking Nigel will be a 1st rd pick if his game keeps movin' up as I anticipate it will. Or, and if not, another program similar to Blackwell leaving Wisconsin for the windfall w/Duke.
Man you can't keep Wisconsin out of your mouth.......but we know you really HATE them.
Quote from: We R Final Four on June 06, 2026, 11:26:46 AMMan you can't keep Wisconsin out of your mouth.......but we know you really HATE them.
keep your enemies close. And, quite frankly, plain toast Gard of all people embraced portaling. No RGV bs over there.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on June 06, 2026, 09:16:09 AMBecause really good players like Nigel want to play at elite programs. See Blackwell, John.
Yeah, that's why Tyler Kolek and Kam Jones left early to be All-Americans elsewhere. It sucks that we never keep our best players.
Quote from: Viper on June 06, 2026, 11:23:46 AM...shiit you post. Please explain.
It's already been explained here but...
Nigel is unlikely to leave early for the draft due to his size and because he will be highly paid in college.
There have been some players here that an elite program would have to loved to have yet they stayed. Why would Nigel be any different?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on June 06, 2026, 08:35:09 PMIt's already been explained here but...
Nigel is unlikely to leave early for the draft due to his size and because he will be highly paid in college.
There have been some players here that an elite program would have to loved to have yet they stayed. Why would Nigel be any different?
And NJ has literally said if Shaka is here he'll be here.
Things change obviously but it isn't worth even a little bit of stress
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 04, 2026, 12:25:53 PMYou'll eventually figure out the wonders of the word finder built into every browser.
Thanks for the condescending snark.
Believe it or not, I actually do know how to do general searches. But when the information I want is as specific as why a committed player is not being mentioned by the coach, that isn't likely to help much.
A board like this, and specifically a thread supposedly devoted to that player,
should be a good place to find something like that. But it is made more difficult when pages worth of off topic posts clog things up.
Quote from: wisblue on June 16, 2026, 12:46:39 PMThanks for the condescending snark.
Believe it or not, I actually do know how to do general searches. But when the information I want is as specific as why a committed player is not being mentioned by the coach, that isn't likely to help much.
A board like this, and specifically a thread supposedly devoted to that player,
should be a good place to find something like that. But it is made more difficult when pages worth of off topic posts clog things up.
Thanks for the very long reply days later.
All it did was tell me you have ZERO idea how to find a specific word on a web page.
But I did enjoy that, while whining about posts unrelated to the main topic, you added to the problem!
;D
Still can't believe Crowdis committed.
Quote from: #UnleashThePortal on June 16, 2026, 05:25:16 PMThanks for the very long reply days later.
All it did was tell me you have ZERO idea how to find a specific word on a web page.
But I did enjoy that, while whining about posts unrelated to the main topic, you added to the problem!
;D
Sorry. I don't live on the board every day so I didn't see your insightful comment until days later.
I apologize to the rest of the board if my one post added to the "problem" of several pages of off topic comments.
Quote from: wisblue on June 17, 2026, 03:15:20 PMSorry. I don't live on the board every day so I didn't see your insightful comment until days later.
I apologize to the rest of the board if my one post added to the "problem" of several pages of off topic comments.
Well its 2 now