This team is going to be exponentially better with Chase & Ben moving on. I think we have a decent foundation with Nigel, RP, Adrien, and DO & MP. Damarius is playing much better on the defensive end. You add our newcomers and 2 quality portal guys, including a badass big. This could bring dividends to MU and a quicker turnaround than most project.
Ben and Chase have limitations. I think they are trying to play past their limitations.
It is a little harsh, but we'd be even worse without both of them this year.
It's the reality we have.
Quote from: NCMUFan on Today at 01:00:38 PMBen and Chase have limitations. I think they are trying to play past their limitations.
I think Ben has been pretty good, but Chase is definitely trying to do too much and it's hurting the team.
I don't agree about Ben. However, I would expect Chase to have some pride. I mean he wants to play in the league, right? For someone who I never questioned his effort prior to this year, it has fallen off a cliff. He is pressing, at first I got it as the senior leader, now, it's just selfishness.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on Today at 01:02:19 PMIt is a little harsh, but we'd be even worse without both of them this year.
It's the reality we have.
Yes..but the truth is both guys have regressed.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on Today at 01:05:04 PMI don't agree about Ben. However, I would expect Chase to have some pride. I mean he wants to play in the league, right? For someone who I never questioned his effort prior to this year, it has fallen off a cliff. He is pressing, at first I got it as the senior leader, now, it's just selfishness.
He totally goes through the motions for major stretches. And I simply do not understand why he's ever playing iso ball, especially down the stretch.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:05:37 PMYes..but the truth is both guys have regressed.
Parham seems to be finally playing to expectations, but everyone (frosh excluded) have regressed.
Nigel had a tough game today from a decision making standpoint. But he'll learn. What continues to boggle my mind is the extended high hedge by Ben, and our help when he's isolated up top. I don't get it. Even when the trap is for an eternity it's a weak ass trap. Makes zero sense, and that's on Shaka.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:05:37 PMYes..but the truth is both guys have regressed.
His 3 point shooting has regressed dramatically which has an oversized impact on his value as a basketball player but his defense and driving ability have improved. His ball handling and his hands have stayed the same, meaning not very good.
Ben Gold, that is.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:05:37 PMYes..but the truth is both guys have regressed.
Ross has. Ben is MU's best interior defender and it's not really close. Parham blocks shots but gets shoved around and loses track of people. Hamilton and Clark are pretty clueless.
Chase Ross is the most athletic bad player MU has ever had. Wally was better. Chase is now the worst player on the court except when Hamilton plays.
Gold in BE play: 8 for 54 from three, 15%. That really hurts. Waiting for injury excuse as usual.
Ross in BE play has regressed from pre conference play, where he was really good. Who knows why.
But not all Gold's fault, he has no backups and has been playing out of position for two years. That's on Shaka for choosing the development aspect on two unheralded recruits, who even redshirted to develop. Today, Hamilton and Clark played 15 minutes and had zero points, zero rebounds, zero blocks, zero assists. Think about that......, then again it has been discussed in nauseam and will be.
Go to boxscore and look at MU bench scoring, etc to Seton Hall bench.
I want to see Owens and Phillips more to see what they have. Good luck to Shaka and next years roster construction, should be interesting.
Believe that is 0 for 11 on the road?
They have both been disappointing...
And Ross has been terrible for the most part. Not only is he not an Alpha, he's not even a Beta.
On a top tier team he should be the 6th man.
But ... Muggs ... they will NOT be better next year w / out going to the portal.
Unless you think Sheek ( thin as a blade of grass ) is going to save them? He won't
Ross is a 5th or 6th guy on a good team. Just not much of a bag or bucket getting ability. Gold is also a 5th or 6th guy. They were just in the wrong roles due to RGV. Water is starting to reach its level and they are sliding back to where they belong.
At this point of the season, the crapty play of all big east first teamer Chase Ross has over taken the dumbness of Shaka playing Hamilton so much as the big disappointment of the season.
young team vs an experienced tough defense and took them to the wire in their arena
not a bad effort
Quote from: Mu8891 on Today at 01:20:18 PMThey have both been disappointing...
And Ross has been terrible for the most part. Not only is he not an Alpha, he's not even a Beta.
On a top tier team he should be the 6th man.
But ... Muggs ... they will NOT be better next year w / out going to the portal.
Unless you think Sheek ( thin as a blade of grass ) is going to save them? He won't
They will definitely be better even with no portal additions (assuming no key exits). But they will not be good enough without portal additions.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:09:43 PMNigel had a tough game today from a decision making standpoint. But he'll learn. What continues to boggle my mind is the extended high hedge by Ben, and our help when he's isolated up top. I don't get it. Even when the trap is for an eternity it's a weak ass trap. Makes zero sense, and that's on Shaka.
Yup Ben is doing what he is told to do, and shot 42.9% from 3.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on Today at 01:11:47 PMHis 3 point shooting has regressed dramatically which has an oversized impact on his value as a basketball player but his defense and driving ability have improved. His ball handling and his hands have stayed the same, meaning not very good.
Ben Gold, that is.
I think he is still leading the Big East in 2 pt shooting percentage. I know he was a couple of games ago.
Excuse my ignorance Scoopers, but what exactly is the explanation for the feeble/hard hedge 35 feet from the rim? It's literally as effective as trying to trap an octopus. I don't get it at all.
As for RP's defense? I think it was rough down the stretch and he's struggled a lot. That said he's improved imo. He seemed a bit gassed to me. As a side note, I'd like to see MP get a few more mins.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:35:42 PMExcuse my ignorance Scoopers, but what exactly is the explanation for the feeble/hard hedge 35 feet from the rim? And it's literally as effective as trying to trap an octopus. I don't get it at all.
As for RP's defense? I think was tough down the stretch and has struggled a lot, but he's improved imo. He seemed a bit gassed to me. As a side note, I'd like to see MP get a few more mins.
That hedge is to disrupt ball handler, it has been done on basketball for o while now, just have to have proper big, OSO like, plus need to have guys who know how to rotate in case big is late. The rotation on D for this team in general is absolutely horrendous.
This year bug...next year and with some portal shopping, windshield.
Quote from: Newsdreams on Today at 01:39:59 PMThat hedge is to disrupt ball handler, it has been done on basketball for o while now, just have to have proper big, OSO like, plus need to have guys who know how to rotate in case big is late. The rotation on D for this team in general is absolutely horrendous.
So, if you don't have the personnel, shouldn't you abandon it? Correct, our help D is historically putrid. And btw the high hedge isn't disrupting the ball handler at all. I think the whole thing is a complete disaster.
Quote from: Mu8891 on Today at 01:20:18 PMThey have both been disappointing...
And Ross has been terrible for the most part. Not only is he not an Alpha, he's not even a Beta.
On a top tier team he should be the 6th man.
But ... Muggs ... they will NOT be better next year w / out going to the portal.
Unless you think Sheek ( thin as a blade of grass ) is going to save them? He won't
I don't really disagree with you.
The rotation on D has been better in spurts and was not bad in the first half. It needs to be better and more consistent.
Less subbing in second half might have led to being more tired. I don't know.
A little harsh on Ross here. I agree he has been a huge disappointment this year especially when the opponents got tougher. He is a good 3rd or 4th option which is what he has become. For RGV to have worked he needed to be an alpha. He never had the belief in himself that he was. Shaka expected that growth in him and got burned.
Gold needed to step up as well and didn't. Plays out of position and Shaka needed to use him more down low offensively throughout his 4 years here.
All of this is on Shaka. He knew what he had. Mismanaged the roster and coaching and expectations of some of his players.
Let's hope he gets that fixed for next year.
I suppose I'm biased but I truly feel we threw this game away.
Feel Marquette played very well under Shaka his first four years. But this year Shaka has not just been bad he has been very bad.
Quote from: WarriorFan on Today at 01:16:28 PMChase Ross is the most athletic bad player MU has ever had. Wally was better. Chase is now the worst player on the court except when Hamilton plays.
So often he plays out of control. I would not expect that from a senior.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:58:49 PMI suppose I'm biased but I truly feel we threw this game away.
If you would have told me MU would be 11-19 from 3, I would have asked how much did we win by.
Quote from: 79Warrior on Today at 02:22:49 PMSo often he plays out of control. I would not expect that from a senior.
.
He's extremely ineffective as an iso player. I'm not sure why he's trying to make plays off the dribble to close games.
Quote from: tower912 on Today at 01:34:22 PMI think he is still leading the Big East in 2 pt shooting percentage. I know he was a couple of games ago.
Yeah, great, well he's 19% (9/47) from three in Big East play and that was actually improved after today. He was sitting at 15% entering today.
It's Shaka's fault for being so loyal, but what is he supposed to do in-game?
This team sucks. We don't have a post presence and our Seniors have no idea how to impact a game. After the Seniors we have 1 Junior that quit, 1 that hasn't played in a month, and another that gets 0 minutes when healthy.
A roster construction malpractice, but what is he honestly supposed to do about it now? It is what it is until he has a chance to fix it in April. If he chooses again not to fix it, it'll be see ya later.
Normally I'm sad to see the seniors leave but this year will be an exception. Appreciate their efforts and I'll put more blame on the coach for the malpractice assembling this roster.
Quote from: tower912 on Today at 01:34:22 PMI think he is still leading the Big East in 2 pt shooting percentage. I know he was a couple of games ago.
He was, but in last two games, he has taken 13 shots, 11 three attempts. He is around 70% on year for taken threes on field goal attempts. If MU had recruited a big to play the middle, then Gold could have played outside more and maybe that would have helped him.
Quote from: nyg on Today at 02:43:29 PMHe was, but in last two games, he has taken 13 shots, 11 three attempts. He is around 70% on year for taken threes on field goal attempts. If MU had recruited a big to play the middle, then Gold could have played outside more and maybe that would have helped him.
Doubtful. He's had PLENTY of good looks all season. It's not like defenses have to or are giving any special attention to him from anywhere on the court, especially beyond the arc. It's totally on Ben his horrendous shooting performance.
Agree Muggsy and also agree we would be worse without them this year since they are all we have. They have regressed although Ben made 3 triples this game but Ben had just 2 rebounds. Chase had 1 REBOUND in 36 minutes which is not sticking his nose in there and not fighting.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:09:43 PMNigel had a tough game today from a decision making standpoint. But he'll learn. What continues to boggle my mind is the extended high hedge by Ben, and our help when he's isolated up top. I don't get it. Even when the trap is for an eternity it's a weak ass trap. Makes zero sense, and that's on Shaka.
There is a ton of stuff on Shaka. This team has been coached piss poorly.
This may be harsh but speaking of harsh feel Marquette's NET Kenpom and Record would be better without although not their fault and love them Sean and Caedin playing, no offense and no pun intended. And Marquette would be better of course it has been said many times by many with the addition of Transfers.
Quote from: Markusquette on Today at 02:41:53 PMNormally I'm sad to see the seniors leave but this year will be an exception. Appreciate their efforts and I'll put more blame on the coach for the malpractice assembling this roster.
Wait until next year!
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:45:54 PMSo, if you don't have the personnel, shouldn't you abandon it? Correct, our help D is historically putrid. And btw the high hedge isn't disrupting the ball handler at all. I think the whole thing is a complete disaster.
Correct, I don't understand why it keeps on being done, gets Ben in a really bad position. He has to also spend a lot of energy.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 01:45:54 PMSo, if you don't have the personnel, shouldn't you abandon it? Correct, our help D is historically putrid. And btw the high hedge isn't disrupting the ball handler at all. I think the whole thing is a complete disaster.
Sorry had game on delay and didn't see this discussion or.wouldnt haven't started other topic. But I also.just cannot understand this - those two.posessions lost.us the game. Does Shaka actually think.Ben can be effective there or are they just not listening to Shaka? Neither answer is great.
Ben's tries.hard and seems like a nice kid, but he brings very limited thing to the team 2 rebounds in, what, 35 minutes from a 5 isn't great...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on Today at 01:02:19 PMIt is a little harsh, but we'd be even worse without both of them this year.
It's the reality we have.
This is definitely true this year. But next year they should be easily replaced through the portal. Easily two of the biggest reasons for our poor record. But need them for functional depth at this point. They are better than Tre and Caedin.
Referring to our 2 seniors as "functional depth" does explain what we are dealing with this year.
On this team, taking out Ben and Chase and you end up giving max minutes to Tre, Caedin, and Josh.
Genius.
As far as having a big switch and end up on the perimeter, it happened under Buzz. It happened under Wojo. It happened the first 4 years under Shaka. It is frequently the goal of the offense to force switches and create mismatches.
When does the federal investigation start on Ross? That's the only plausible explanation for his fall off after an incredible start this season.
While I'm happy about the progress the underclassmen have show these last few weeks, it does make me wonder where we'd be right now if the upperclassmen had just been able to weather the storm the first half of the season. Going 3-3 in the non buy games in the non conference was certainly not a tall task, instead 0-6. Could've gone into today's game at 4-4, instead 2-8.
Ross was a first team preseason Big East player, he won't even be third team. Ben has tossed up bricks at a rate even he hasn't shown before, and the third year guys have...well they lived down to expectations (putting faith in them was a foreseeable mistake). If only there had been some improvement from the upperclassmen we could've entered today in the same bubble position that Seton Hall did.
Simple:
First half we run our stuff, in other words, in rhythm.
Second half S.H. brings chaos, mayhem as All-State says. Marquette is not experienced playing city ball. It can't be duplicated in practice. X's and O's don't count end game.
At end game James plays a different game, his teammates haven't a clue.
In time it may work out.
Today at the end everyone on S,H, was moving while we were trying to control the outcome.
Instinct will win most times.
St. John's is another team that brings it.
When I was active on Scoop I would say the administration wanted a prep school team. Well here it is, enjoy.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on Today at 02:52:06 PMAgree Muggsy and also agree we would be worse without them this year since they are all we have. They have regressed although Ben made 3 triples this game but Ben had just 2 rebounds. Chase had 1 REBOUND in 36 minutes which is not sticking his nose in there and not fighting.
Absolutely unbelievable. Ty MM. 3 combined rebs for those guys???? This is indefensible imo.
Quote from: 1SE on Today at 03:50:27 PMSorry had game on delay and didn't see this discussion or.wouldnt haven't started other topic. But I also.just cannot understand this - those two.posessions lost.us the game. Does Shaka actually think.Ben can be effective there or are they just not listening to Shaka? Neither answer is great.
Ben's tries.hard and seems like a nice kid, but he brings very limited thing to the team 2 rebounds in, what, 35 minutes from a 5 isn't great...
The thing is, it's not what I would call a trap at all. Ben didn't even have his hands up on that one 35 feet from the rim late in the game. It was almost impossible not to score on that garbage. I've asked very politely to 🪓 this strategy since Oso left. It appears I have been ignored. :(
Shaka stopped taking your calls?
You know, he invites fans to come to practice all of the time. Opportunities abound for you.
Quote from: connie on Today at 03:20:11 PMWait until next year!
I hope I have at least a few brand new upperclassmen to start watching film on before I lower my overall expectations
Lost a bit this morning was that Stevens was terrific in the first half. He stuck some spot threes and had I think 5 assists. He's generally not a ball stopper, but at times can be gunshy. I think he's going to a be a really good 2-way player for us.
Again, priorities 1-5 should be to add a bona fide baller at the 5. I'm talking about a dude who can patrol the paint defensively, rebound, play with force and score at the rim, run the floor, lay-out perimeter guys on screens, and stick the 3 ball as well. I'm not saying these guys are easy to find, but they're around. Get a dude who can take care of business and elevate this team where they should be moving forward.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 06:47:59 PMLost a bit this morning was that Stevens was terrific in the first half. He stuck some spot threes and had I think 5 assists. He's generally not a ball stopper, but at times can be gunshy. I think he's going to a be a really good 2-way player for us.
Again, priorities 1-5 should be to add a bona fide baller at the 5. I'm talking about a dude who can patrol the paint defensively, rebound, play with force and score at the rim, run the floor, lay-out perimeter guys on screens, and stick the 3 ball as well. I'm not saying these guys are easy to find, but they're around. Get a dude who can take care of business and elevate this team where they should be moving forward.
What 5's that checked all of those boxes transferred last off-season and how are they doing this season?
Marquette definitely needs a starting 5 from the portal but you might want to adjust your expectations.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on Today at 07:03:23 PMWhat 5's that checked all of those boxes transferred last off-season and how are they doing this season?
Marquette definitely needs a starting 5 from the portal but you might want to adjust your expectations.
I'm not asking for an Olajuwon but will admit I don't really know the potential options.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 12:59:41 PMThis team is going to be exponentially better with Chase & Ben moving on. I think we have a decent foundation with Nigel, RP, Adrien, and DO & MP. Damarius is playing much better on the defensive end. You add our newcomers and 2 quality portal guys, including a badass big. This could bring dividends to MU and a quicker turnaround than most project.
It depends on what we replace them with. If it's a RS freshman reason playing Ben's minutes and a true freshman taking Chase's, we'll probably be worse. If it's experienced players that fit the system, we'll probably be better.
For next year I'd like to roll with only the current underclassmen minus Hamilton
James | Transfer
Stevens | Phillips / Walker | Johnston
Transfer | EGBuonu / Miletic
Parham | Owens | Recruit/Transfer
Transfer | Sheek | Clark
Quote from: Markusquette on Today at 09:32:19 PMFor next year I'd like to roll with only the current underclassmen minus Hamilton
James | Transfer
Stevens | Phillips / Walker | Johnston
Transfer | EGBuonu / Miletic
Parham | Owens | Recruit/Transfer
Transfer | Sheek | Clark
Interesting. Not to be harsh but it looks like we're adding Tre & Sean to the ash heap of history.
I think its pretty obvious at this point both will be leaving.
We'll have plenty of room to add the transfer wing and big we need.
Quote from: JTJ3 on Today at 09:56:15 PMI think its pretty obvious at this point both will be leaving.
We'll have plenty of room to add the transfer wing and big we need.
But they must be immediate major impact guys. Back up the Brinks for Nigel and find the two pieces that will bring us beck to national prominence. Don't tell me that can't be done.
We have a full week off and many winnable games coming up, beginning with Butler. I wouldn't have thought that two weeks ago. UCONN and Nova are obviously highly doubtful. The other 6 can be seized and taken imo. And then who knows in the BE tournament.
Quote from: MuggsyB on Today at 10:14:25 PMWe have a full week off and many winnable games coming up, beginning with Butler. I wouldn't have thought that two weeks ago. UCONN and Nova are obviously highly doubtful. The other 6 can be seized and taken imo. And then who knows in the BE tournament.
We're beating St John's, we already lost to Georgetown at home, and we barely beat X and PC at home.
Butler and DePaul are the only games I wouls currently put money on us to win.
When NJ hits the Sophomore wall, people here will ask for him to transfer.