KenPom just unveiled a new stat, the average distance of a 2-point shot.
MU is the second closest in the country at 3.8 feet from the basket. Yet their 2p% ranks 271st nationally.
Contrast this to St. Louis. They are first in the country at 3.7 feet, but their 2p% ranks 9th.
2Distance.png
so? SLU takes transfers and has a bunch of NIL money. No RVG in Billiken Land.
I think that's one of the more frustrating parts of this season. We are getting the looks we want, but just don't have the players to convert.
I found this new KenPom Stat of two-point distance fascinating. It says a lot about this season.
Conclusion: Shaka is doing the right thing (drawing up plays to get close-in shots), and the players are choking (missing close-in open shots). They are all top 100 players with years of college experience. It is on the players to make these shots, not on the coach to devote practice time to hitting four-footers. That is what you do in 7th grade practice.
----
Here is a scatter graph of two-point shooting and two-point distance. The thick black line is the regression (a third-degree polynomial if you're interested).
What jumps out is that Marquette is an outlier versus the other 364 D1 teams.
All games through January 1
DashTwoPoint010226.png
The regression suggests that a "typical" D1 averaging 3.8 foot shots from the basket should have a two-point shooting percentage of 59.3%. Marquette has a 48.3% percentage, or 11% below what should be expected.
The following chart plots the difference between a team's two-point shooting percentage and the regression's estimate of what a "typical" D1 team would shoot. Marquette is at the bottom of all 365 D1 teams.
DashTwoPointError010226.png
All the coach can do is draw up a play to get a good shot. I suggest Shaka is doing that. It is on high D1 players to hit four-foot shots, even if contested. They are not, and Marquette is arguably the most disappointing team in college basketball. If Marquette were shooting 59% from the two-point range, rather than 48%, they would have a much better record.
So, while I understand most fans blame the coach for everything and will stand on their heads to torture reason into concluding that everything is the coach's fault. In this case, it is the players. They have to hit their makable shots ... and they are not.
I think you could also argue that they can't finish because their fundamentals are trash which is on coaching/development. Footwork, getting square, focus through contact, etc. that comes with maturity through coaching IMO
Shaka should be pissed at the guy who recruited and developed all these players who can't make layups.
The question should be why are we getting so many good open looks. Are we very easy to defend because of our low talent level? Are we easy to scheme against because our offense only takes shots at the rim and behind the arc?
This is like saying that if a 6 y/o child crashes a car into a tree, it's not the fault of the parent who strapped their child's seatbelt and told them to drive — it's the kid's fault for not being a good driver.
Just confirms the theory sh!t rolls downhill.
We do miss easy open shots but the eye test says we take a lot of bad, forced up, highly contested shots at close range.
A lot of this is on Shaka and his inability to recruit, implement and teach a low post option.
But hey let's continue having our height disadvantaged guards attack the rim against taller defenders or have Parham and Gold throw up crazy shots at the rim and blame them.
It's laughable some think it's ALL the coaches fault for the poor at the basket shooting. Chase Ross has flat out missed some pretty basic layups that an average high school basketball player would convert at a 95+% clip. Royce has also missed a lot of easy at the basket shots. Caedin especially has missed a lot of easy ones, but it's possible he truly doesn't have the coordination of D1 basketball players.
Even breakaway dunks befuddle our players. Nobody on the team except maybe for Owen's plays above the rim.
Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on January 02, 2026, 03:23:29 PMI think you could also argue that they can't finish because their fundamentals are trash which is on coaching/development. Footwork, getting square, focus through contact, etc. that comes with maturity through coaching IMO
When Hamilton is your best post-up player, you're in big, big, big, super-big trouble.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2026, 03:46:43 PMIt's laughable some think it's ALL the coaches fault for the poor at the basket shooting. Chase Ross has flat out missed some pretty basic layups that an average high school basketball player would convert at a 95+% clip. Royce has also missed a lot of easy at the basket shots. Caedin especially has missed a lot of easy ones, but it's possible he truly doesn't have the coordination of D1 basketball players.
I don't think anyone is saying that at all. Are you suggesting people are claiming that Shaka is making shots for players? No one's denying that our team unequivocally sucks at shooting.
Read the title of the thread. You can fault the players for being bad at the game, but when it comes to the season overall, it's no one but the coach's fault.
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 02, 2026, 03:34:29 PMThis is like saying that if a 6 y/o child crashes a car into a tree, it's not the fault of the parent who strapped their child's seatbelt and told them to drive — it's the kid's fault for not being a good driver.
Better is the 20+ -year with a good driving record.
These are not hapless children.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 02, 2026, 03:57:29 PMBetter is the 20+ -year with a good driving record.
These are not hapless children.
20+ year-olds with good driving records don't crash every time they hit the road.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 02, 2026, 03:27:58 PMShaka should be pissed at the guy who recruited and developed all these players who can't make layups.
Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on January 02, 2026, 03:23:29 PMI think you could also argue that they can't finish because their fundamentals are trash which is on coaching/development. Footwork, getting square, focus through contact, etc. that comes with maturity through coaching IMO
As I said, everything is the coach's fault.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 02, 2026, 04:05:58 PMAs I said, everything is the coach's fault.
Who assembled the gang that couldn't shoot straight?
Quote from: panda on January 02, 2026, 03:28:16 PMThe question should be why are we getting so many good open looks. Are we very easy to defend because of our low talent level? Are we easy to scheme against because our offense only takes shots at the rim and behind the arc?
Hey panda first time long time - is it also possible our team is so bereft of any talent that it's remarkably easy for teams to stop one of our only players with a pulse? I'll hang up and listen thanks !
Quote from: K1 Lover on January 02, 2026, 03:34:29 PMThis is like saying that if a 6 y/o child crashes a car into a tree, it's not the fault of the parent who strapped their child's seatbelt and told them to drive — it's the kid's fault for not being a good driver.
No, it's not like that at all.
This is the responsibility of both the players and Shaka & staff.
To be clear, Shaka holds all of the blame for this this disaster but without further ado...
Players responsible for this abomination (in no particular order) -
Tre Norman
Caedin Hamilton
Sean Jones
Damarius Owens
Zaide Lowery
Josh Clark
Putting these bums out with a proven player like Chase Ross and flipping the script to say it's his fault is pathetic.
Quote from: panda on January 02, 2026, 05:30:35 PMTo be clear, Shaka holds all of the blame for this this disaster but without further ado...
Players responsible for this abomination (in no particular order) -
Tre Norman
Caedin Hamilton
Sean Jones
Damarius Owens
Zaide Lowery
Josh Clark
Putting these bums out with a proven player like Chase Ross and flipping the script to say it's his fault is pathetic.
You are an embarrassment dude. Hard to believe you graduated any college.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 02, 2026, 06:50:20 PMYou are an embarrassment dude. Hard to believe you graduated any college.
Feel free to explain yourself. Otherwise you are the fool to us all
I do think this shows Nevada Smith is doing his job in terms of running the offense and generating looks.
The guys handling player evaluation, recruiting, and development? Not so much.
How sad is it that our recruiting focus needs to include, "guys who can make a layup"?
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 02, 2026, 08:02:48 PMI do think this shows Nevada Smith is doing his job in terms of running the offense and generating looks.
The guys handling player evaluation, recruiting, and development? Not so much.
Player evaluation, especially evaluating recruits, is definitely on my list of concerns.
When I look at the third year players and compare them to some of the other players Shaka was recruiting in that class, I wonder how things might be different.
Players like Dailyn Swain, Devin Royal, and Dai Dai Ames would look pretty good right now.
Quote from: panda on January 02, 2026, 05:30:35 PMTo be clear, Shaka holds all of the blame for this this disaster but without further ado...
Players responsible for this abomination (in no particular order) -
Tre Norman
Caedin Hamilton
Sean Jones
Damarius Owens
Zaide Lowery
Josh Clark
Putting these bums out with a proven player like Chase Ross and flipping the script to say it's his fault is pathetic.
You have some kind of thing for Chase Ross? Maybe Chase is only a "proven player" if he's in a supporting role - not capable of being an alpha player? Funny you call other guys on the team bums, when Chase has played like a bum for the better part of the last month.
And as far as your list above - Chase largely plays most with Nigel, Adrien, Royce, and Ben. But nice to selectively suggest his poor performance is due to the bottom half of the roster.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 02, 2026, 05:19:37 PMNo, it's not like that at all.
This is the responsibility of both the players and Shaka & staff.
Shaka himself would not agree with you.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:41:17 AMYou have some kind of thing for Chase Ross? Maybe Chase is only a "proven player" if he's in a supporting role - not capable of being an alpha player? Funny you call other guys on the team bums, when Chase has played like a bum for the better part of the last month.
And as far as your list above - Chase largely plays most with Nigel, Adrien, Royce, and Ben. But nice to selectively suggest his poor performance is due to the bottom half of the roster.
No - the teams poor performance is much more related to the horrible performance of the list provided than Chase.
Chase is our only consistent offensive option this year and has had two maybe three bad games this year.
This is so foolish even for your standards.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 08:51:22 AMShaka himself would not agree with you.
Feel free to explain...
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 02, 2026, 05:19:37 PMNo, it's not like that at all.
This is the responsibility of both the players and Shaka & staff.
The buck stops where?
One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 09:18:28 AMThe buck stops where?
One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.
Your forgot option C - it's Chase Ross' fault
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2026, 09:05:41 AMFeel free to explain...
Unless you want to assume Shaka is an unaware of what his responsibilities are as a D1 head coach, he knows he is responsible for the players in his program.
I'd dare say a coach like Shaka would not take any job that he didn't have 100% control of who is recruited to be on his team.
Additionally, if Shaka was fired and he sued for wrongful termination, do you think his attorneys would present the players performance as a defense for his poor record?
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2026, 09:04:42 AMNo - the teams poor performance is much more related to the horrible performance of the list provided than Chase.
Chase is our only consistent offensive option this year and has had two maybe three bad games this year.
This is so foolish even for your standards.
Yep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month. Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:
12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70
But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team. He's the victim here, right?
Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb. Nigel has been massively better.
Another chart from KenPom database showing how Marquette's shooting is not just bad, but historically/epically bad.
Marquette is shooting 30.6% from Three. This ranks them 289 out of 365 D1 teams.
The orange dots are P4 (ACC, B10, B12, SEC) plus BE teams. Only Boston College (the worst P4 + BE team) and Florida (highly rated, but they don't rely on 3P shooting) are worse.
Combine it with the 2-point shooting/distance stats above, and a strong case can be made that Marquette is not "just" a poor shooting team, but the single worst shooting team in all of D1 basketball.
All games through January 1
DashThreePoint010326b.png
(interesting side note, the best and worst three-point shooting teams are both from New Haven, CT.)
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 09:37:25 AMYep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month. Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:
12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70
But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team. He's the victim here, right?
Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb. Nigel has been massively better.
That's simply not true.
Chase has had 2 horrible games (Gtown/creighton) and one bad game (Wisconsin).
Otherwise he's been the least of our problems and we lose to valpo and maybe CMU without him.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 03, 2026, 09:56:28 AMAnother chart from KenPom database showing how Marquette's shooting is not just bad, but historically/epically bad.
If only the coach had some control over the quality of shooters on his roster.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 09:37:25 AMYep - Chase has been consistently bad for the last month. Dating back to Dec 6 Wisconsin game:
12/42 on 2pt FG
4/20 on 3pt FG
O-Ratings of 97, 56, 47, 85, 70
But hey, Chase deserves no blame for the poor performance by the team. He's the victim here, right?
Try harder Panda, even by your foolish standards, suggesting Chase has been our "only consistent offensive option" this year is dumb. Nigel has been massively better.
Chase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.
NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.
In that same stretch:
17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124
That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.
This is a weird defense of Shaka. He recruited the players who cant shoot from 3 feet.
We seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?
It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault?
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 10:31:34 AMWe seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?
It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault?
The terms people and serious is doing a lot of heavy lifting when referring to Elon musk.
Final chart from KenPom's database on shooting. FT%
Marquette is 215th of 265 teams.
When the ball leaves their hand, bad things happen.
All games through January 1
DashFreeThrow010326.png
Side note, during the five-game losing streak (starting with the Wisconsin game), Marquette's FT% has been 62.4% (58 of 93). On the chart above, this % ranks 354th out of 365 teams.
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 10:31:34 AMWe seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?
It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault?
What are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 10:31:34 AMWe seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?
It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault?
It is a serious gap of logic. Unless you want to damage Shaka's reputation, there is no reason to frame Shaka as only partially at fault.
I think there is firm ground to say Shaka should come back based upon the body of his work. I generally agree with that position, but to say he's not 100% responsible for this year is dishonest, and frankly disrespectful to Shaka.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2026, 10:28:09 AMChase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.
NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.
In that same stretch:
17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124
That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.
Nigel definitely played awful at Purdue, but was pretty solid at Wisconsin. Keep in mind the kid is a freshman..Chase a 4th year senior. Nigel's Big East numbers are well beyond that of a 4th or 5th guy. His stats so far though just 3 conference games likely put him as an All Big East 1st/2nd team player:
Rankings in conference:
Usage: 3
% Shots: 14
eFG% 16
Assist Rate: 3
Block %: 17
Steal %: 10
Fouls Committed: 18
Fouls Drawn: 19
FT Rate: 18
3 pt FG%: 14
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 10:38:51 AMWhat are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
You are just trolling.
Everyone is saying the exact opposite. Shaka is 100% responsible for the performance of the MU basketball team. All the glory and all the blame. Just like every other big time college program.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 10:38:51 AMWhat are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
1. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Juwan Howard led Michigan to a Big 10 title, was national coach of the year and went to an Elite 8 then Sweet 16 in consecutive seasons. Two years later, he was fired. And I'm sure somewhere there was a message board fan demanding he be given a pass because of his past accomplishments.
2. Interesting that you give Shaka credit for previous players' growth, and a pass on current players' lack of growth. How exactly have the players not held up their end of the bargain? Give me the inside scoop on how they're not heeding the coaching of Shaka and his staff.
3. The repeated "it's one down year" mantra is getting old. Last year's collapse is on him. He failed to build a roster that could grind out a full season, and had no answers when things started turning south. And barring a significant change in philosophy or extraordinary leap in development by multiple players, there's little reason to believe next year's team is going to be much/any better.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 10:38:51 AMWhat are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
Yes. He's done great at Marquette. Which is why he deserves the opportunity to correct course. I am most certainly not suggesting he should be fired.
But if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 11:19:28 AMBut if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.
That's goofy, I bet you think the world is round and that 1+1=2. Just crazy talk.
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 11:19:28 AMYes. He's done great at Marquette. Which is why he deserves the opportunity to correct course. I am most certainly not suggesting he should be fired.
But if we are giving him credit for his initial years here, we have to give him blame for this year. That's how it works.
Yep. I'd guess about 90% or more of Scoop believes Shaka should be given a chance to fix his mess. The "debate" here is Elon trying to absolve Shaka of responsibility for the mess he made.
Quote from: SOSW on January 03, 2026, 10:31:34 AMWe seriously have people here with the opinion that a coach isn't primarily responsible for a team's on court performance? Why is Marquette paying him so much?
It's clear that talent evaluation and development has fallen way short of what is needed to be competitive. And we have Scoopers saying that's not the coach's fault?
We had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 12:08:18 PMWe had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.
And he was a victim of his players not being very good.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 10:38:51 AMWhat are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
I'm not on board with the fire Shaka because of a single bad year crowd. I understand the attempt at going the traditional route.
However, let's not pretend that this is just a down year. This is an historically bad year for marquette. There's a real possibility marquette goes 5-27.
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 12:13:20 PMI'm not on board with the fire Shaka because of a single bad year crowd. I understand the attempt at going the traditional route.
However, let's not pretend that this is just a down year. This is an historically bad year for marquette. There's a real possibility marquette goes 5-27.
It is really unfathomable to believe a coach like Shaka could let this spin soooo far out of control.
Is it possible that he and his staff have so little grasp on what good college talent looks like?
Some say he is/was so invested in his RGV model that it created a blind spot, but is that not equally concerning?
I mean, looking at our interior defense, I could see how Hamilton looks much better in practice than he does in games.
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 12:08:18 PMWe had scoopers for 7 years saying wojo was great.
No we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 12:37:32 PMNo we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."
Maybe they didn't call him "great", but some did say MU could never do better.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 12:43:30 PMMaybe they didn't call him "great", but some did say MU could never do better.
Could never do better?
As in, Wojo is a better coach than Al, O'Neill and Crean? As in, "I know the last guy brought us to three straight Sweet 16s, but Wojo is peak Marquette"?
I'm skeptical.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 10:38:51 AMWhat are your thoughts on the talent/development of Tyler, Kam, Oso, Jop, Stevie? Was it Shaka who was primarily responsible for the two, Number 2 seeds we earned in the NCAA tournament? Was Shaka responsible for the Big East regular season/BET conference championships? Or was that just all on the players, and their development was all on them?
So, why would you crap all over a guy who delivered performance like that in the past? He's clearly capable. It's one down year, and players haven't held up their end of the bargain as far as growth/performance too.
I am a Shaka fan who has been called a slurper by some of his detractors here. But either a coach is responsible for what's going on with his program or he isn't.
I question the honesty and/or basketball knowledge of the Scoopers who claim that Shaka deserves little to no credit for the development of the players who helped Marquette excel from 2022-24. And I question the honesty and/or basketball knowledge of the Scoopers who claim that Shaka deserves little to no blame for the lack of development of the players on this season's team.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 12:46:43 PMCould never do better?
As in, Wojo is a better coach than Al, O'Neill and Crean? As in, "I know the last guy brought us to three straight Sweet 16s, but Wojo is peak Marquette"?
I'm skeptical.
I 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.
I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 12:57:21 PMI 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.
I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.
By the time we got to the 2021 part of Wojo's final season, there were very very few (if any) Scoopers claiming Wojo was the best option going forward. Maybe you could find one or two holdouts, but please don't claim that there was some kind of Keep Wojo Movement going on here, because there wasn't.
There were some Scoopers - including me - who didn't know that Marquette had alums willing to pay his buyout. I thought we might be stuck with him for another year because of that, and I wasn't happy about it. And I was one who didn't call for Wojo's firing until that final season.
Finally, whatever happened with Wojo has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on now with Shaka. It's kind of sad that, five years later, some feel the need to bring up Shaka's predecessor every time one of these discussions take place. (Not saying you, WT.)
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 12:37:32 PMNo we didn't.
I'd be surprised if we had a single Scooper write "Wojo is great."
Okay there mr Projo. We haven't forgotten. ::)
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2026, 01:10:12 PMBy the time we got to the 2021 part of Wojo's final season, there were very very few (if any) Scoopers claiming Wojo was the best option going forward. Maybe you could find one or two holdouts, but please don't claim that there was some kind of Keep Wojo Movement going on here, because there wasn't.
There were some Scoopers - including me - who didn't know that Marquette had alums willing to pay his buyout. I thought we might be stuck with him for another year because of that, and I wasn't happy about it. And I was one who didn't call for Wojo's firing until that final season.
Finally, whatever happened with Wojo has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on now with Shaka. It's kind of sad that, five years later, some feel the need to bring up Shaka's predecessor every time one of these discussions take place. (Not saying you, WT.)
That's fair. Also, I was guilty of supporting the extension. -I changed my tune within 6-7 months, but I was on the record as a Pro-Jo, but
never because I was concerned about MU's ability to attract HC talent.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 12:57:21 PMI 100% guaranty that there were posts claiming it would be terrible for MU to fire Wojo because he was the best option.
I'd guess there is a way to revisit those post, but I don't know how.
It's not crazy hard to do. Hit the search, type in wojo, then under that type in the user you want to find posts from. (Easier if you also exempt the last 3 years of posts)
I found this one to be pretty funny.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 08, 2019, 03:38:36 PMCollege Basketball Talk pus MU at #4.
Fire Wojo, though.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/04/08/college-basketball-2019-2020-preseason-top-25/
Also, five BE teams in the top 20 (Nova #7, Seton Hall #12, X #19, Creighton #20).
Mid-major, though.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2026, 10:28:09 AMChase has been really bad for awhile now. Like harming the team with his play bad. I suspect it's him trying to do too much, possibly also another nagging injury.
NJ has been better, but turnovers are really hurting him and even the better he's been is still pretty average by Big East starter levels.
In that same stretch:
17/36 on 2PFG
6/16 on 3PFG
ORtg: 104/45/94/92/124
That's okay for a 4th or 5th guy, but when he's trying to step into top option role, he's also partially to blame for the 0-5 record in that stretch.
A freshman who has been a legit (but average) big east starter is a win. Not his fault he's being forced into a lead role 12-18 months too early.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 01:24:10 PMThat's fair. Also, I was guilty of supporting the extension. -I changed my tune within 6-7 months, but I was on the record as a Pro-Jo, but never because I was concerned about MU's ability to attract HC talent.
The highlight of my 99% crap posts on scoop was calling Wojo out day 1. I never gave in!
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 01:12:31 PMOkay there mr Projo. We haven't forgotten. ::)
By all means, use the search function and find where I ever called Wojo great.
Weren't you #UnleashSean? Great call there.
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 01:25:36 PMIt's not crazy hard to do. Hit the search, type in wojo, then under that type in the user you want to find posts from. (Easier if you also exempt the last 3 years of posts)
I found this one to be pretty funny.
I didn't think Wojo should be fired coming off a 24-win season and 2nd place conference finish. And when all the "too early" top 25s projected a top 10 team.
You sure got me there.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 01:32:13 PMBy all means, use the search function and find where I ever called Wojo great.
Weren't you #UnleashSean? Great call there.
My "unleashes" have zero to do with talent buddy. But alas, that was also before he tore his acl.
I think if you'll use that search history you'll see me as one of the first to say Sean isn't the answer.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 01:36:16 PMI didn't think Wojo should be fired coming off a 24-win season and 2nd place conference finish. And when all the "too early" top 25s projected a top 10 team.
You sure got me there.
Its cool, im aware you don't know ball. Keep getting that post count up with your hostility though.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 09:18:28 AMThe buck stops where?
One of two things is happening here: Either the players lack the talent to compete at a high level, or they have the talent but something is preventing them from playing up to their capabilities.
Whichever you choose, the responsibility falls on the coach. Either he's failing to bring in enough talent, or he's failing to bring out the best in his talent.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 09:27:52 AMUnless you want to assume Shaka is an unaware of what his responsibilities are as a D1 head coach, he knows he is responsible for the players in his program.
I'd dare say a coach like Shaka would not take any job that he didn't have 100% control of who is recruited to be on his team.
Additionally, if Shaka was fired and he sued for wrongful termination, do you think his attorneys would present the players performance as a defense for his poor record?
It's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context.
Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka. He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.
But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.
In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks. This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons. He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault?
The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3. This season, he's shooting 27.1%. Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott. Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka?
Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game.
But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
This seems to suggest that Shaka should absolutely start using the portal, as the method seems to work but the pieces don't. Go grab guys who have proven they can succeed at this level.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2026, 02:45:20 PMIt's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context.
Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka. He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.
But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.
In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks. This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons. He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault?
The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3. This season, he's shooting 27.1%. Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott. Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka?
Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game.
But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
Terribly unfair and disrespectful to Shaka.
If you think that Shaka feels he's just along for the ride to any degree, you don't think much of him as a program builder and leader.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 03, 2026, 02:45:20 PMIt's truly amazing how many of you see things in black & white, with no room for nuance or context.
Yes, responsibility and accountability ultimately fall on Shaka. He's the head of organization, so to speak, and ultimately the buck stops with him.
But to say the players bear no or very little responsibility for this debacle is ludicrous.
In the past few games, I've seen Chase completely biff multiple breakaway laps/dunks. This is a guy we've seen throw down some insane dunks over the past 3 seasons. He's been abysmal for a while now - is that Shaka's fault?
The previous two seasons, Ben Gold has shot 35.9% and 37.!% from 3. This season, he's shooting 27.1%. Most of the shots he has taken from 3 have been good shott. Is Ben shooting 8-10% below what would have been reasonably expected of him this season on Shaka?
Shaka absolutely is responsible for building a team where a Hamilton has inexplicably started and played 15-20 minutes per game.
But sorry, guys like Chase and Ben also bear responsibility for their shortcomings this seasons. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
There have been a few games where Chase has been poor and Ben is just Ben. I've said it in the past and credit to musk for saying it more recently but neither are lead dogs.
They need some degree of talent around them and it isn't even remotely available. That's not their fault. It is a gross miscalculation of roster construction on the part of our fearless leader.
Quote from: #UnleashMalik on January 03, 2026, 02:39:34 PMIts cool, im aware you don't know ball. Keep getting that post count up with your hostility though.
Is this you, knower of ball?
November 25, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
I believe Sean will be taking koleks starting pg position at some point in the conference season.
Might be good for kolek as well to get him back into the sg role.https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63782.msg1483372#msg1483372
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 03:03:18 PMIs this you, knower of ball?
November 25, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
I believe Sean will be taking koleks starting pg position at some point in the conference season.
Might be good for kolek as well to get him back into the sg role.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63782.msg1483372#msg1483372
Ya, that was a bad take. 👎
... and who selected these players? Apparently not Shaka since he is not responsible for the players that can not shoot.
Quote from: Class71 on January 03, 2026, 07:35:40 PM... and who selected these players? Apparently not Shaka since he is not responsible for the players that can not shoot.
Chase Ross is responsible
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2026, 07:59:50 PMChase Ross is responsible
I agree with this analysis. 24.6 eFG on 28^ of teams shots in Big East play.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:03:40 PMI agree with this analysis. 24.6 eFG on 28^ of teams shots in Big East play.
OMG. You actually think Chase is the problem with this team.
I agree he's not the solution, but he's far from the problem.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 03, 2026, 08:06:20 PMOMG. You actually think Chase is the problem with this team.
I agree he's not the solution, but he's far from the problem.
There are definitely other problems. But, hard to win games when your experienced senior who Big East coaches expected to perform at an All Big East 1st team player is performing as essentially the worst starter playing in the conference so far...I mean 24% eFG - even my all time favorite Derrick Wilson was twice that, but at least Derrick iwasn't hoisting up 28% of the team's shots.
Other problems have been Ben Gold's 1-13 shooting in Big East play. Zaide leaving the team. Shaka playing musical chairs with the lineups, though I can somewhat understand why.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:14:42 PMThere are definitely other problems. But, hard to win games when your experienced senior who Big East coaches expected to perform at an All Big East 1st team player is performing as essentially the worst starter playing in the conference so far...I mean 24% eFG - even my all time favorite Derrick Wilson was twice that, but at least Derrick iwasn't hoisting up 28% of the team's shots.
Other problems have been Ben Gold's 1-13 shooting in Big East play. Zaide leaving the team. Shaka playing musical chairs with the lineups, though I can somewhat understand why.
How quickly you spin
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 04, 2025, 12:59:04 PMTalk about jumping to some negative conclusions after 1 game! A game in which we set a program record for kills, held the opposition to .69 points per possession, and won by 27 on a night where we shoot 5-24 from three - I was very pleased.
Chase Ross was running A LOT of PG during the game - that's the answer to your question about after SJ/Nigel.
Lowery is going to be a stud. Stevens looks like a great wing. Nigel showed great promise. Gold was okay. Owens started slow, but finished well. Tre Norman played a very nice game. Josh Clark? Talk about some serious upside potential. The two guys who didn't play as well as we might expect - Royce and Caedin.
I'd be shocked if this isn't an NCAA team, even if it is a poor shooting 3 point team.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 03, 2026, 08:25:19 PMHow quickly you spin
Yes. I'll own that post. Was really disappointed Ted to see things just totally bottom out with Zaide. My gut feeling there is that there was probably a chemistry issue between him and a player or two on the team.
I also certainly didn't think we'd suck so bad on defense, and that Chase would turn in his worst season at MU as a senior.
But, nice find and enjoy the current "win." I'll stand by my support of Shaka for at least a couple more years.
What is funny is you were a big time Wono guy for 5-6 years when he'd done dick at MU, but you've been eager to fault find with Shaka. Weird.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:33:58 PMI also certainly didn't think we'd suck so bad on defense, and that Chase would turn in his worst season at MU as a senior.
I just hope Shaka finally agrees with you and benches Chase and Ben so that we can all move on with life.
If he doesn't, he's an idiot. #amiright
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 03, 2026, 08:37:30 PMI just hope Shaka finally agrees with you and benches Chase and Ben so that we can all move on with life.
If he doesn't, he's an idiot. #amiright
Of course he's not going to bench Chase. Chase has earned the long leash. But, when your best player plays like major ass, it's hard to win for any team.
Ben has largely been okay. Just not shooting it as well this season. But he's played well defensively and rebounded well. Chase has let his offensive funk affect the rest of his game.
But, maybe we can fire Shaka and bring back Wojo! Was astounding other high major programs didn't jump all over Wojo when he was fired.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:53:56 PMOf course he's not going to bench Chase. Chase has earned the long leash. But, when your best player plays like major ass, it's hard to win for any team.
Ben has largely been okay. Just not shooting it as well this season. But he's played well defensively and rebounded well. Chase has let his offensive funk affect the rest of his game.
Wait, Chase is the reason Marquette sucks ass, but Shaka should play him a lot? Man, your brain is a pretzel.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:53:56 PMOf course he's not going to bench Chase. Chase has earned the long leash. But, when your best player plays like major ass, it's hard to win for any team.
Ben has largely been okay. Just not shooting it as well this season. But he's played well defensively and rebounded well. Chase has let his offensive funk affect the rest of his game.
But, maybe we can fire Shaka and bring back Wojo! Was astounding other high major programs didn't jump all over Wojo when he was fired.
☢️bozo alert☢️
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 03, 2026, 08:53:56 PMOf course he's not going to bench Chase. Chase has earned the long leash. But, when your best player plays like major ass, it's hard to win for any team.
Ben has largely been okay. Just not shooting it as well this season. But he's played well defensively and rebounded well. Chase has let his offensive funk affect the rest of his game.
But, maybe we can fire Shaka and bring back Wojo! Was astounding other high major programs didn't jump all over Wojo when he was fired.
Seriously, why is it always always always about Wojo with you?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 03:03:18 PMIs this you, knower of ball?
November 25, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
I believe Sean will be taking koleks starting pg position at some point in the conference season.
Might be good for kolek as well to get him back into the sg role.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63782.msg1483372#msg1483372
Quote from: Pakuni on January 03, 2026, 03:03:18 PMIs this you, knower of ball?
November 25, 2022, 09:44:14 AM
I believe Sean will be taking koleks starting pg position at some point in the conference season.
Might be good for kolek as well to get him back into the sg role.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63782.msg1483372#msg1483372
Nm
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2026, 12:42:54 AMSeriously, why is it always always always about Wojo with you?
That's not fair, 82.
Sometimes, it's about Derrick Wilson.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2026, 12:42:54 AMSeriously, why is it always always always about Wojo with you?
It's not about Wojo, as much as it is about context and pointing out pretzel logic. We've got some weird Scoopers (Rocky, Pakuni, BrewCity) who want to suggest Shaka should be on the hot seat for 1 bad year, who preached patience for 5+ yeas with Wojo - a guy whose best accomplishment was a 20+ point blowout as a 5 seed - that it took him 5 years to achieve.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 08:52:14 AMIt's not about Wojo, as much as it is about context and pointing out pretzel logic. We've got some weird Scoopers (Rocky, Pakuni, BrewCity) who want to suggest Shaka should be on the hot seat for 1 bad year, who preached patience for 5+ yeas with Wojo - a guy whose best accomplishment was a 20+ point blowout as a 5 seed - that it took him 5 years to achieve.
This team is significantly worse than all of Wojo's team with the possible exception of his first year. Also Wojo didn't do enough to get fired, until the year he was actually fired. (And even that year he beat two top 10 teams.)
And it's not brew or Pakuni putting Shaka on the hot seat. He WILL BE on the hot seat if this season continues like this. If he has another season similar to this one next year, he will undoubtedly be fired.
Do you not understand how bad this team is? And how Shaka's complete mismanagement of the roster get them to this point?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 03, 2026, 08:57:15 PMWait, Chase is the reason Marquette sucks ass, but Shaka should play him a lot? Man, your brain is a pretzel.
Ever heard of a Catch 22? What would you do if you're Shaka? Do you agree it would be hard to win if your most veteran/highly regarded player shoots 24% and takes 28% of your shots? And that this kind of performance leads directly to losing?
Might be time for a little introspection when you find yourself agreeing with trolls/drama kings like Panda, Onepost, and Viper.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 09:15:02 AMEver heard of a Catch 22? What would you do if you're Shaka? Do you agree it would be hard to win if your most veteran/highly regarded player shoots 24% and takes 28% of your shots? And that this kind of performance leads directly to losing?
Gosh, I wonder why Shaka has such limited options available to him?
It's a mystery.
Quote from: SOSW on January 04, 2026, 09:01:46 AMThis team is significantly worse than all of Wojo's team with the possible exception of his first year. Also Wojo didn't do enough to get fired, until the year he was actually fired. (And even that year he beat two top 10 teams.)
And it's not brew or Pakuni putting Shaka on the hot seat. He WILL BE on the hot seat if this season continues like this. If he has another season similar to this one next year, he will undoubtedly be fired.
Do you not understand how bad this team is? And how Shaka's complete mismanagement of the roster get them to this point?
Do you not understand how weird it is to want to fire a coach after 1 (or two bad seasons), that was gotten your program 4 NCAA bids the previous 4 years, two, 2 seeds in the NCAA tournament, a Sweet 16, a Big East regular and conference championship - and defend a guy who didn't win an NCAA tournament game in 7 years as coach, missed the NCAA in 4 of his 6 eligible seasons?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 09:19:58 AMDo you not understand how weird it is to want to fire a coach after 1 (or two bad seasons), that was gotten your program 4 NCAA bids the previous 4 years, two, 2 seeds in the NCAA tournament, a Sweet 16, a Big East regular and conference championship - and defend a guy who didn't win an NCAA tournament game in 7 years as coach, missed the NCAA in 4 of his 6 eligible seasons?
Outside of panda, who wants Shaka fired? I don't. I don't think brew or Pakuni do either. And who's defending Wojo?
I'm just stating facts. This team is worse on kenpom than any of Wojo's teams. Shaka will be on the hot seat if this continues. He will be fired if he has another season like this one.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 08:52:14 AMIt's not about Wojo, as much as it is about context and pointing out pretzel logic. We've got some weird Scoopers (Rocky, Pakuni, BrewCity) who want to suggest Shaka should be on the hot seat for 1 bad year, who preached patience for 5+ yeas with Wojo - a guy whose best accomplishment was a 20+ point blowout as a 5 seed - that it took him 5 years to achieve.
I've literally said the opposite.
Quote from: SOSW on January 04, 2026, 09:26:53 AMOutside of panda, who wants Shaka fired? I don't. I don't think brew or Pakuni do either. And who's defending Wojo?
I'm just stating facts. This team is worse on kenpom than any of Wojo's teams. Shaka will be on the hot seat if this continues. He will be fired if he has another season like this one.
This team may very well end up worse than any Wojo team. Incredibly disappointing season so far and it is hard to see things changing. He will be back next season and have an opportunity to right the ship. That said, if we remain bottom feeders in 26-27, he will be sent packing.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 09:19:58 AMDo you not understand how weird it is to want to fire a coach after 1 (or two bad seasons), that was gotten your program 4 NCAA bids the previous 4 years, two, 2 seeds in the NCAA tournament, a Sweet 16, a Big East regular and conference championship - and defend a guy who didn't win an NCAA tournament game in 7 years as coach, missed the NCAA in 4 of his 6 eligible seasons?
Coaches get fired for two disastrous seasons after prior success. As they should. One dumpster fire season can be an anomaly. Two is a trend.
Juwan Howard was fired two years after leading Michigan to back-to-back Sweet 16s and three years after winning AP Coach of the Year. Tom Crean was fired a year after winning the Big 10 and going to the Sweet 16.
Shaka will definitely get next year to fix this, assuming he doesn't leave on his own, but he has to win. And to do that he's going to have to get uncomfortable and go into the portal because this roster needs a lot more talent.
If he doesn't, it's going to be a repeat of this year and he'll be fired.
Quote from: JTJ3 on January 04, 2026, 10:06:51 AMShaka will definitely get next year to fix this, assuming he doesn't leave on his own, but he has to win. And to do that he's going to have to get uncomfortable and go into the portal because this roster needs a lot more talent.
If he doesn't, it's going to be a repeat of this year and he'll be fired.
I agree with this.
If it plays out that he gets fired after next year, no reporter or analyst or coach or anyone of matter will blame MU for being short sighted. MU will continue to be a top tier job for everyone in the coaching profession.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 08:52:14 AMIt's not about Wojo, as much as it is about context and pointing out pretzel logic. We've got some weird Scoopers (Rocky, Pakuni, BrewCity) who want to suggest Shaka should be on the hot seat for 1 bad year, who preached patience for 5+ yeas with Wojo - a guy whose best accomplishment was a 20+ point blowout as a 5 seed - that it took him 5 years to achieve.
Hmm.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 09:15:02 AMEver heard of a Catch 22? What would you do if you're Shaka? Do you agree it would be hard to win if your most veteran/highly regarded player shoots 24% and takes 28% of your shots? And that this kind of performance leads directly to losing?
Might be time for a little introspection when you find yourself agreeing with trolls/drama kings like Panda, Onepost, and Viper.
If I was Shaka, and *if* I agreed that Chase is the reason that Marquette is losing, I would bench his ass.
But, you're the one sh*tting on Chase, and giving Shaka a pass.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 03, 2026, 02:58:49 PMTerribly unfair and disrespectful to Shaka.
If you think that Shaka feels he's just along for the ride to any degree, you don't think much of him as a program builder and leader.
It's not remotely disrespectful to Shaka nor is it inferring he's just along for the ride.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 04, 2026, 12:20:37 PMIf I was Shaka, and *if* I agreed that Chase is the reason that Marquette is losing, I would bench his ass.
But, you're the one sh*tting on Chase, and giving Shaka a pass.
Ahh no..I'm not sh*tting on Chase and giving Shaka a pass. I'm suggesting it is stupid to pin all the blame on the coach, exclusively. Players also have to perform. And when your best player, is playing terribly, and the stats clearly show that to be true - it's really hard to win.
I don't blame Shaka for not benching Chase. I wouldn't either. He's earned the right to start. But that doesn't mean he's been a net negative to the team for the last month. Thus, the Catch 22.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 04, 2026, 12:40:19 PMAhh no..I'm not sh*tting on Chase and giving Shaka a pass. I'm suggesting it is stupid to pin all the blame on the coach, exclusively. Players also have to perform. And when your best player, is playing terribly, and the stats clearly show that to be true - it's really hard to win.
I don't blame Shaka for not benching Chase. I wouldn't either. He's earned the right to start. But that doesn't mean he's been a net negative to the team for the last month. Thus, the Catch 22.
The only catch is that shaka should have surrounded Chase with more talent.
He's the only MU player opposing teams need to shut down, which is why his numbers have gotten worse.
Marquette is now 311 in eFG. Only two P4 + BE teams are worse: Rutgers and Boston College. These are the only P4 + BE teams ranked lower than MU.
DasheFG010426.png
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 04, 2026, 09:36:55 PMMarquette is now 311 in eFG. Only two P4 + BE teams are worse: Rutgers and Boston College. These are the only P4 + BE teams ranked lower than MU.
DasheFG010426.png
Feel our players shooting among other things have regressed since high school
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 04, 2026, 09:36:55 PMMarquette is now 311 in eFG. Only two P4 + BE teams are worse: Rutgers and Boston College. These are the only P4 + BE teams ranked lower than MU.
DasheFG010426.png
I knew there was some odd bad mojo as to why the only college sweatshirts I saw around Beverly on the South Side today were a guy in a Rutgers sweatshirt and another in a BC 😩 one.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 03, 2026, 09:56:28 AMAnother chart from KenPom database showing how Marquette's shooting is not just bad, but historically/epically bad.
Marquette is shooting 30.6% from Three. This ranks them 289 out of 365 D1 teams.
The orange dots are P4 (ACC, B10, B12, SEC) plus BE teams. Only Boston College (the worst P4 + BE team) and Florida (highly rated, but they don't rely on 3P shooting) are worse.
Combine it with the 2-point shooting/distance stats above, and a strong case can be made that Marquette is not "just" a poor shooting team, but the single worst shooting team in all of D1 basketball.
All games through January 1
DashThreePoint010326b.png
(interesting side note, the best and worst three-point shooting teams are both from New Haven, CT.)
This is the University of New Haven's first season in D1 so the stat makes sense.
Earlier today, Paint Touches posted that Chase and Ben are shooting 3/35 from 3 in Big East play. A solid 8.5%.
Ben is 0/10 on unguarded 3s while Chase is 1/5 for a stellar 1/15.
But our best players who have contributed meaningfully in the past on very good teams have no accountability for this mess?
(https://media.tenor.com/7GOZva00BiQAAAAM/childplease-theleague.gif)
I don't think many Scoopers are saying the players are blameless.
What many are saying is that the entire operation - including player procurement, player development, and players being put in the best position to succeed during games - has been a mess.
And like it or not, the head coach is singularly in charge of the operation.
Quote from: MU82 on January 05, 2026, 02:35:21 PMI don't think many Scoopers are saying the players are blameless.
What many are saying is that the entire operation - including player procurement, player development, and players being put in the best position to succeed during games - has been a mess.
And like it or not, the head coach is singularly in charge of the operation.
All true but some have said it's all on Shaka.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 05, 2026, 02:26:41 PMEarlier today, Paint Touches posted that Chase and Ben are shooting 3/35 from 3 in Big East play. A solid 8.5%.
Ben is 0/10 on unguarded 3s while Chase is 1/5 for a stellar 1/15.
But our best players who have contributed meaningfully in the past on very good teams have no accountability for this mess?
(https://media.tenor.com/7GOZva00BiQAAAAM/childplease-theleague.gif)
What's your theory for why these players have fallen off so much?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 05, 2026, 02:54:23 PMAll true but some have said it's all on Shaka.
I read post like "this is not all Shaka's fault, but yes he is ultimately responsible". ::)
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. So do you want Ben and Chase to kick-in money if MU buys out Shaka? Do you want MU to hang a banner "2025-26 Failure : 90% Shaka, 5% Ben, 5% Chase" ?
What is the end game here? Deane and Wojo had players who could have played better, should we be more critical of MU for firing them?
Do you know who wants all the responsibility for the MU program? Shaka does! 100% guaranteed. That's why I find these posts demeaning to Shaka.
Quote from: JTJ3 on January 04, 2026, 10:06:51 AMShaka will definitely get next year to fix this, assuming he doesn't leave on his own, but he has to win. And to do that he's going to have to get uncomfortable and go into the portal because this roster needs a lot more talent.
If he doesn't, it's going to be a repeat of this year and he'll be fired.
I mostly agree, but if Shaka decides to run it back with a last place roster that loses its two best players, it's essentially a lame duck year.
At that point, we're better off making a coaching change this year rather than waiting a year.
When does Shaka have a serious discussion with the Scoop board members?
Quote from: NCMUFan on January 05, 2026, 03:38:04 PMWhen does Shaka have a serious discussion with the Scoop board members?
Hopefully never. Gadzooks.
Sorry, should have put in teal.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 05, 2026, 03:32:34 PMI mostly agree, but if Shaka decides to run it back with a last place roster that loses its two best players, it's essentially a lame duck year.
At that point, we're better off making a coaching change this year rather than waiting a year.
Yep. I hope that Coach Don Quixote, astride his horse, morphs back into Coach Shaka Smart, but if not....he can ride off into the sunset. All that he has accomplished at Marquette in his first 3 1/2 years (a LOT!) is irrelevant in any justification for continuing with anything even vaguely resembling the current sh!tshow.
One point though-"two best players:" may be true again this season, but lately?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 05, 2026, 02:54:23 PMAll true but some have said it's all on Shaka.
I haven't noticed that but if so, that's silly. I'll be looking out for it now.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 05, 2026, 03:17:33 PMI read post like "this is not all Shaka's fault, but yes he is ultimately responsible". ::)
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. So do you want Ben and Chase to kick-in money if MU buys out Shaka? Do you want MU to hang a banner "2025-26 Failure : 90% Shaka, 5% Ben, 5% Chase" ?
What is the end game here? Deane and Wojo had players who could have played better, should we be more critical of MU for firing them?
Do you know who wants all the responsibility for the MU program? Shaka does! 100% guaranteed. That's why I find these posts demeaning to Shaka.
I'm simply saying that there are certain things in regard to performance that a head coach can't control or account for.
When your two seniors are performing well below their career norms in certain aspects of the game (3 point %, missing layup/dunks) for an extended period of time and it's impacting wins and losses, at a certain point that's on the players.
I'm really not sure what's so complicated or difficult to understand about that.
Georgetown and Seton Hall were both winnable games. Chase & Ben went 3/17 and 0/9 from 3 in the Georgetown game.
Ben played well overall in the SH game but was still 1/7 from 3. Chase was 5/17 overall and 1/5 from 3, including a missed breakaway that changed the game.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 06, 2026, 02:39:40 PMI'm simply saying that there are certain things in regard to performance that a head coach can't control or account for.
When your two seniors are performing well below their career norms in certain aspects of the game (3 point %, missing layup/dunks) for an extended period of time and it's impacting wins and losses, at a certain point that's on the players.
I'm really not sure what's so complicated or difficult to understand about that.
Georgetown and Seton Hall were both winnable games. Chase & Ben went 3/17 and 0/9 from 3 in the Georgetown game.
Ben played well overall in the SH game but was still 1/7 from 3. Chase was 5/17 overall and 1/5 from 3, including a missed breakaway that changed the game.
I asked this earlier in the thread, or another thread, but I'm assuming you didn't see it.
What's your theory for why the seniors' play has fallen off so much?
With Chase, I honestly think if he had taken and made the game winners when he had the opportunity, I think his arc and the team's arc would have been different. Too much Jamil Wilson, not enough Vander Blue.
With Ben, particularly on defense, I think after excelling in his role for a season and a half, he started trying to be everywhere at once and therefore wasn't where he needs to be. Watching him be the only one sliding over appropriately, only to see his man get the pass and then dunk, or overcommit trying to generate a deflection, only to see his man roll, the help be non-existent, and Ben be two steps late is so frustrating. On offense, he isn't willing to be the man. The drives he has shown are better than he is given credit for. But he has to want to do it 8 times every game.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 06, 2026, 02:39:40 PMI'm simply saying that there are certain things in regard to performance that a head coach can't control or account for.
When your two seniors are performing well below their career norms in certain aspects of the game (3 point %, missing layup/dunks) for an extended period of time and it's impacting wins and losses, at a certain point that's on the players.
I'm really not sure what's so complicated or difficult to understand about that.
Georgetown and Seton Hall were both winnable games. Chase & Ben went 3/17 and 0/9 from 3 in the Georgetown game.
Ben played well overall in the SH game but was still 1/7 from 3. Chase was 5/17 overall and 1/5 from 3, including a missed breakaway that changed the game.
I don't find what you are saying is totally crazy, I can see the logic but I don't agree with it.
I agree that coaches cannot control or account for everything like injuries or off the court issues, but a head coach should have a feel for who is progressing (or not even BE quality like some of our players) and recruit through transfers or HS to build depth and competition.
Who would know better than Shaka what kind of players MU has? Additionally, as has been documented here, the warning signs go back a year. And based upon Shaka resume, I would be beyond shocked if he didn't see most of this coming, but he had absolute control to make changes, hence he is totally responsible.
I agree he probably dug himself a hole that was to big to dig out of just last off-season, but that is on him.
I will repeat that Shaka should come back, he is great, he will make changes and I very much think he is the best man to fix this.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 06, 2026, 03:19:31 PMI asked this earlier in the thread, or another thread, but I'm assuming you didn't see it.
What's your theory for why the seniors' play has fallen off so much?
I'm not sure.
With Kam last year, there was a more logical explanation for his struggles from 3 in regard to all of the responsibility that was added to his plate playing PG, less catch & shoot opportunities, etc.
I would imagine Chase's usage is up and he does have added responsibility but not to the level we saw from Kam, IMO, considering how much Nigel has the ball in his hands.
Chase had good games against IU, Maryland, and Oklahoma so I'm not sure it's just level of competition (he didn't shoot well vs. IU but got to the line 12 times to counteract that).
Starting with Wisconsin, he's just been horrendous his last 6 games:
-20/74 FGs (27%)
-4/24 3pt FGs (17%)
-2 APG (was average 4 APG prior to this stretch)
-4.2 FTAG (8.6 FTA prior - so he's getting to the line half as much)
Maybe it's just a deep, prolonged slump. Maybe it's something else.
For Ben, it's primarily his 3 pt%. Again, don't know. He seems to be getting good shots. As Paint Touches posted, 0-10 on unguarded 3s. He seems to be rebounding better and has been fine defensively but maybe there are metrics that say that's not the case.
He's been streaky before but not to the extent where you would expect him to be 8-10% below what you could reasonably project his % to be halfway through the season.
I don't have time to do any kind of deep dive into advanced metrics, usage, catch & shoot vs. off-the-dribble %, etc. If anyone has more insight it would be great to hear.
And I'll say even if they were both playing better, we'd still be a bad team. Not this horrendously bad, but still bad. So Shaka certainly miscalculated there in regard to these guys being good enough to lead a NCAA tourney-quality team.
I just don't think Shaka expecting a consistently higher quality of play from both of them is illogical.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 06, 2026, 03:38:45 PMI don't find what you are saying is totally crazy, I can see the logic but I don't agree with it.
I agree that coaches cannot control or account for everything like injuries or off the court issues, but a head coach should have a feel for who is progressing (or not even BE quality like some of our players) and recruit through transfers or HS to build depth and competition.
Who would know better than Shaka what kind of players MU has? Additionally, as has been documented here, the warning signs go back a year. And based upon Shaka resume, I would be beyond shocked if he didn't see most of this coming, but he had absolute control to make changes, hence he is totally responsible.
I agree he probably dug himself a hole that was to big to dig out of just last off-season, but that is on him.
I will repeat that Shaka should come back, he is great, he will make changes and I very much think he is the best man to fix this.
That's reasonable - we can agree to disagree on part of this discussion.
Shaka clearly miscalculated the quality of his team, which is difficult to understand considering the preceding 4 seasons.
I think the retain and develop model had worked well enough that it's understandable you might start to believe in it too much. Not that it's necessarily infallible but that you can overcome certain challenges. That's human nature, to a certain extent.
Although, I have trouble putting much stock into how these guys play in practice, because based on how this year has played out the level of competition they're facing in practice has probably been pretty low.
Shaka is a smart guy. He's competitive. Now we'll see if he's capable of looking in the mirror and being brutally honest with himself in regard to self-evaluation and evaluating the program.
And, as I've said before, I don't think RGV has to be completely abandoned. You can still follow the Painter model and have it continue to have retention be a core value of your program. You just have to be honest enough with yourself and your players that you'll need to fill gaps with the portal when needed.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on January 06, 2026, 04:37:10 PMThat's reasonable - we can agree to disagree on part of this discussion.
Shaka clearly miscalculated the quality of his team, which is difficult to understand considering the preceding 4 seasons.
I think the retain and develop model had worked well enough that it's understandable you might start to believe in it too much. Not that it's necessarily infallible but that you can overcome certain challenges. That's human nature, to a certain extent.
Although, I have trouble putting much stock into how these guys play in practice, because based on how this year has played out the level of competition they're facing in practice has probably been pretty low.
Shaka is a smart guy. He's competitive. Now we'll see if he's capable of looking in the mirror and being brutally honest with himself in regard to self-evaluation and evaluating the program.
And, as I've said before, I don't think RGV has to be completely abandoned. You can still follow the Painter model and have it continue to have retention be a core value of your program. You just have to be honest enough with yourself and your players that you'll need to fill gaps with the portal when needed.
It looks like there is way more common ground between us than not. I'm not a fan of turning over 75% of the roster each year. But, I think any coach should use all the resources made available to him including transfers. 3 maybe 4 transfers out of 15 players seems reasonable, but also maybe zero if the HS pipeline is paying dividends.
Quote from: panda on January 02, 2026, 06:54:00 PMFeel free to explain yourself. Otherwise you are the fool to us all
Still waiting...