I think ( almost ) everyone agrees that
Hamilton can't cut it in the BE. He is averaging about 5 pts and 3 rbs, but gets just killed out there. Turnovers, lose w / the ball etc etc
Here's a specific alternative...
Jermichal Stillwell. Stillwell was at UWM and is now at UCF ( of the B12 ). He's
6'9" about 225. At UCF this year he's averaging 12pts / 9 rebounds per game.
Having seen him play , he's a force.
I'm pretty sure Shaka could have kept him in MKE with any effort... instead, we have
Hamilton and Clark
What is it ? Did Shaka not seen how woeful his front court is? Does he want to continue to use his full array of pedantic and silly acronyms? I don't get it ...
It appears an errant philosophy based on viewing the current college BB landscape and rules.
I think they need to start Parham and have Hamilton be the backup to Ben. I just don't think that two big lineup is working.
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 03, 2025, 06:52:30 AMI think ( almost ) everyone agrees that
Hamilton can't cut it in the BE. He is averaging about 5 pts and 3 rbs, but gets just killed out there. Turnovers, lose w / the ball etc etc
Here's a specific alternative...
Jermichal Stillwell. Stillwell was at UWM and is now at UCF ( of the B12 ). He's
6'9" about 225. At UCF this year he's averaging 12pts / 9 rebounds per game.
Having seen him play , he's a force.
I'm pretty sure Shaka could have kept him in MKE with any effort... instead, we have
Hamilton and Clark
What is it ? Did Shaka not seen how woeful his front court is? Does he want to continue to use his full array of pedantic and silly acronyms? I don't get it ...
...but do we have the financial resources which I believe is the primary reason for RGV. Even if we get a decent transfer that is no guarantee of success. The dream of a MU Natty is pretty much out of reach unless we have a sugar donor to pony up and compete for top athletes.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 03, 2025, 07:12:26 AMI think they need to start Parham and have Hamilton be the backup to Ben. I just don't think that two big lineup is working.
Ya...I've stated this since like the 2nd game. I understand the concern on the glass, but we can't guard with 2 bigs on the floor. Ben can occasionally defend the paint, that's about it. All three struggle mightily with individual and help defense.
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 03, 2025, 06:52:30 AMHere's a specific alternative...
Jermichal Stillwell. Stillwell was at UWM and is now at UCF ( of the B12 ). He's
6'9" about 225. At UCF this year he's averaging 12pts / 9 rebounds per game.
Having seen him play , he's a force.
I'm pretty sure Shaka could have kept him in MKE with any effort... instead, we have
Hamilton and Clark
His name isn't Jermichal, but what makes you dream up that "Shaka could have kept him in MKE with any effort"? The guy is from the south, now back in the south and on a solid b12 team with a well known coach/player.
JB - ok JAmichal. You happy ?
Dream up ? You think that little of Shaka ? He couldn't sign this type of player ? I thought HE is a " well known coach "
I thought MU had a well known coach who could recruit? But ... if you are happy with the AWFUL team he's put out there then that's on you.
I actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
Quote from: Mu8891 on December 03, 2025, 08:17:31 AMJB - ok JAmichal. You happy ?
Dream up ? You think that little of Shaka ? He couldn't sign this type of player ? I thought HE is a " well known coach "
I thought MU had a well known coach who could recruit? But ... if you are happy with the AWFUL team he's put out there then that's on you.
You still have his name wrong and you didn't answer the question. Good luck.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:22:56 AMI actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
Hamilton is Shaka's guy so I think realistically he has one of the lowest chances of portaling after this year. His role is way too big currently though.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:22:56 AMI actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
Parham has been disappointing this year, but the fact that his minutes are basically the same as Hamilton is coaching malfeasance.
Hamilton gets a lot of attention because he's playing, but he's probably exceeded any expectations I had for him heading into the season. The problem with this team for me is that so many players are playing below where I expected.
Owens is a guy that I thought would play a lot of minutes and he's been awful. He's regressed as a player and seems a bit flighty to me. Parham has just recently started to play with a bit of energy but I thought he had a chance to lead the team in scoring. Parham is living proof that Todd Smith is not the miracle worker some want to claim. Parham is pretty weak. Norman has no offensive game and is maybe solid on defense. Lowery can't finish at the rim unless it's an uncontested dunk.
I'd start James and Stevens going forward and play for next year. Both seem like solid players who play much tougher than their upperclass counterparts.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:22:56 AMI actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
I'm reminded of this clip every time ch is on the floor.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6PP4RT-vv-o&pp=4gcNEgtjaGF0Z3B0LmNvbQ%3D%3D
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:48:45 AMHamilton gets a lot of attention because he's playing, but he's probably exceeded any expectations I had for him heading into the season.
You expected MUBB to be 19.8 points better per 100 possessions when Caedin is on the bench? MUBB scores 111.6 points per 100 possessions when 18 is on bench and 91.8 points per 100 possessions when 18 is on the floor.
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/marquette-mens-basketball/33224/golden-eagles-caedin-hamilton-starter-rotation-shaka-smart
I remember when Chris Crawford traveled every time he touched the ball.
Hamilton has few basketball instincts. Those could come with experience. Maybe they won't. Owens has no fire in the belly. That doesn't usually change. Norman has fire in the belly but limited skills and athletic ability. Parham lacks physical strength and gets out of control. Lowery doesn't appear to have the mindset to be anything but a complementary player and he's never learned to finish at the rim.
Hamilton should not be playing as much as he is and he shouldn't be starting. Still, I expected little from him this year and others have been far bigger disappointments to me.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 03, 2025, 07:49:56 AM...but do we have the financial resources which I believe is the primary reason for RGV. Even if we get a decent transfer that is no guarantee of success. The dream of a MU Natty is pretty much out of reach unless we have a sugar donor to pony up and compete for top athletes.
For the hundredth time, we have the money.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:22:56 AMI actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
Did you watch the game, or just read the box score?
Caedin's been in the program for three years. If three years is "too soon" to play 19 minutes per game, what's the point of bringing a player like this into the program? You're going to spend 4 years paying and developing a kid so he can maybe give you 25 decent minutes a night by year 5? That doesn't seem a very good use of Marquette's resources.
How in the world is Hamilton exceeding expectations? He is the worst player I've ever seen at Marquette. Worse than froling and Wally ellenson. Hamilton can't play defense, can't shoot, can't score inside. He's literally horrible at everything, I don't care if he's rebounding vs Valpo. This type of player starting on Maquette let alone being on the roster is absolutely unacceptable
We are top 10 in spending on college basketball in the country and we have Tre Norman and Caedin Hamilton playing big minutes. Just horrible
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 10:24:36 AMWe are top 10 in spending on college basketball in the country
#FakeNews #Lies
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 10:24:36 AMWe are top 10 in spending on college basketball in the country
Athletic Department burning money =/= NIL budget
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 09:56:37 AMI remember when Chris Crawford traveled every time he touched the ball.
Hamilton has few basketball instincts. Those could come with experience. Maybe they won't. Owens has no fire in the belly. That doesn't usually change. Norman has fire in the belly but limited skills and athletic ability. Parham lacks physical strength and gets out of control. Lowery doesn't appear to have the mindset to be anything but a complementary player and he's never learned to finish at the rim.
Hamilton should not be playing as much as he is and he shouldn't be starting. Still, I expected little from him this year and others have been far bigger disappointments to me.
Chris Crawford played in the NBA for several years and probably would've stuck around longer if it hadn't been for injuries. He was a pretty good player.
Aware spending does not equal NIL budget. This is supposed to be a premier college basketball program, and not going after transfers and keeping these guys on the roster is malpractice.
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 10:22:55 AMHow in the world is Hamilton exceeding expectations? He is the worst player I've ever seen at Marquette. Worse than froling and Wally ellenson. Hamilton can't play defense, can't shoot, can't score inside. He's literally horrible at everything, I don't care if he's rebounding vs Valpo. This type of player starting on Maquette let alone being on the roster is absolutely unacceptable
Yeah, Christ, I mean, at least Wally Ellenson took away a track scholarship (or multiple partial scholarships) from more deserving student athletes just to shut his mom up after Wojo cut him, and then he dropped out of school anyway. No way Hamilton would have the stones or the sway to pull off something like that. Not advocating for Hamilton or his character at all here, btw. Both him and Wally are/were awful players.
Certainly not advocating for Wally or Henry ellenson. Just basing it off actual talent
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on December 03, 2025, 10:36:56 AMYeah, Christ, I mean, at least Wally Ellenson took away a track scholarship (or multiple partial scholarships) from more deserving student athletes just to shut his mom up after Wojo cut him, and then he dropped out of school anyway. No way Hamilton would have the stones or the sway to pull off something like that. Not advocating for Hamilton or his character at all here, btw. Both him and Wally are/were awful players.
Wasn't Wally a national finalist for high jump that year? Are you implying that he took away a scholarship from the would be champion?
Quote from: Biggie Clausen on December 03, 2025, 10:36:56 AMYeah, Christ, I mean, at least Wally Ellenson took away a track scholarship (or multiple partial scholarships) from more deserving student athletes just to shut his mom up after Wojo cut him, and then he dropped out of school anyway. No way Hamilton would have the stones or the sway to pull off something like that. Not advocating for Hamilton or his character at all here, btw. Both him and Wally are/were awful players.
Wally was on a basketball scholarship. Basketball scholarships are always full scholarships and any basketball player on an athletic scholarship used up one of the ones allowed. (13 at the time.)
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2025, 10:45:39 AMWasn't Wally a national finalist for high jump that year? Are you implying that he took away a scholarship from the would be champion?
No, he's wrong. He was on a basketball scholarship.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:48:45 AMHamilton gets a lot of attention because he's playing, but he's probably exceeded any expectations I had for him heading into the season. The problem with this team for me is that so many players are playing below where I expected.
Owens is a guy that I thought would play a lot of minutes and he's been awful. He's regressed as a player and seems a bit flighty to me. Parham has just recently started to play with a bit of energy but I thought he had a chance to lead the team in scoring. Parham is living proof that Todd Smith is not the miracle worker some want to claim. Parham is pretty weak. Norman has no offensive game and is maybe solid on defense. Lowery can't finish at the rim unless it's an uncontested dunk.
I'd start James and Stevens going forward and play for next year. Both seem like solid players who play much tougher than their upperclass counterparts.
Exceeded your expectations? Wth were your expectations? 3 passes per game and 1 rebound? The guy is unplayable out there. What are you watching? Glad he was able to grab a few rebounds against a small crappy valpo team.
Anonymous eagle and paint touches have multiple articles laying out how Hamilton is the biggest issue by far w this team
Quote from: Pakuni on December 03, 2025, 10:07:43 AMDid you watch the game, or just read the box score?
Caedin's been in the program for three years. If three years is "too soon" to play 19 minutes per game, what's the point of bringing a player like this into the program? You're going to spend 4 years paying and developing a kid so he can maybe give you 25 decent minutes a night by year 5? That doesn't seem a very good use of Marquette's resources.
I was at the game. You?
Hamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years. He's just started his second season of actually playing. I think him playing this many minutes is a mistake but it reflects Parham's lack of strength and progress and the complete lack of development of Gold as an inside threat.
By contrast, I expected Owens to compete for a starting spot with Lowery this year. Stevens has surpassed both of them already. If I'm going to point my frustrations at players on the roster, I start with players other than a project player like Hamilton.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 11:22:50 AMI was at the game. You?
Hamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years. He's just started his second season of actually playing. I think him playing this many minutes is a mistake but it reflects Parham's lack of strength and progress and the complete lack of development of Gold as an inside threat.
By contrast, I expected Owens to compete for a starting spot with Lowery this year. Stevens has surpassed both of them already. If I'm going to point my frustrations at players on the roster, I start with players other than a project player like Hamilton.
Agreed. Royce and Owens regressing is much more frustrating than Hamilton only taking a small step forward.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 11:22:50 AMI was at the game. You?
Hamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years. He's just started his second season of actually playing. I think him playing this many minutes is a mistake but it reflects Parham's lack of strength and progress and the complete lack of development of Gold as an inside threat.
By contrast, I expected Owens to compete for a starting spot with Lowery this year. Stevens has surpassed both of them already. If I'm going to point my frustrations at players on the roster, I start with players other than a project player like Hamilton.
Any future talent evaluations from Zogster are hereby disqualified after this Hamilton take.
Hamilton is playing 20 mins a game and Marquettes offense and defensive ratings are night and day with him on and off the court. He doesn't get to hide behind being a project bc he played bad teams in high school. Owens probably is more disappointing but he's barely playing.
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 11:13:18 AMAnonymous eagle and paint touches have multiple articles laying out how Hamilton is the biggest issue by far w this team
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Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 11:13:18 AMAnonymous eagle and paint touches have multiple articles laying out how Hamilton is the biggest issue by far w this team
I agree that he's playing too much. The biggest issue on the team, however, is the lack of development of guys who were expected to step up. Shaka is making a mistake playing Hamilton so much. No question. Shaka appears to have made bigger mistakes in identifying guys one would expect to be frontline players. Parham started the season like crap and lacks strength. Owens seems content on the end of the bench and is in la la land when he's on the floor. Lowery hasn't developed into a scorer. He was lousy of D last night. Norman lacks skill and athletic ability. Jones can't shoot. Did you expect that Hamilton would produce more than Owens when they were recruited? What about heading into this season?
I'm frustrated that Hamilton is getting so many minutes. I'm far more disappointed in the lack of development of players I thought would step up this year and the lack of contribution from the junior and sophomore classes. A project that doesn't work out does not kill a program. Two classes that do not contribute will.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 11:22:50 AMI was at the game. You?
Hamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years. He's just started his second season of actually playing. I think him playing this many minutes is a mistake but it reflects Parham's lack of strength and progress and the complete lack of development of Gold as an inside threat.
By contrast, I expected Owens to compete for a starting spot with Lowery this year. Stevens has surpassed both of them already. If I'm going to point my frustrations at players on the roster, I start with players other than a project player like Hamilton.
This all makes sense and fits with what I think as well. The sophomore class "stars" (and junior class) is what's killing us. That's 4 four star guys who look horrendous and it unbelievably frustrating.
Caedin's a coach management issue not a player development issue. He has a ceiling, he's a project, him playing these minutes isn't his fault. The fact that parham hasn't pushed him off the court is a player issue. Same with Owens and Tre and Zaide. The fact that none of them have been able to push coach to play them more (except Zaide by default) is comical.
Edit: yes I get the +\- stats but again that's a coach issue not a Caedin issue. Parham not being demonstrably better to coach is more disappointing than Caedin playing to what he is, a lower tier player.
The main thing that's killing us is not getting transfers and Shaka being content with this awful roster
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 11:43:23 AMThe main thing that's killing us is not getting transfers and Shaka being content with this awful roster
Hence why carrying Clark/hamilton/amadou the last two years killed us down the stretch last year and now this year.
Projects need to progress or they're useless in this day and age.
I still cannot comprehend that in 5 years, Shaka has recruited one 4 star big man- Sheek. And Sheek will not play until year six. That is roster malpractice. Not counting Oso as Oso was committed to MU pre Shaka.
Also not getting a wing transfer last year or 2 years ago. 2 years ago if they got a wing to replace Omax they could've won it all
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 08:22:56 AMI actually see a lot of progress in Hamilton. He had double digit rebounds last night. I think the issue is that it is too soon to expect him to play this many minutes.
Perhaps you are being sarcastic, but I actually agree with this. I thought he did some nice things yesterday. He's not great nor ready for the big time, but I'm not giving up on him developing over the course of the year. I always loved his energy on the bench during his redshirt year, and he appears to have a level head on his shoulders. He may never be Oso, but I think he becomes more than serviceable.
He had 10 rebounds vs Valpo and was 1/5 with 2 turnovers. Walk ons also bring good energy
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 11:22:50 AMI was at the game. You?
Hamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years. He's just started his second season of actually playing. I think him playing this many minutes is a mistake but it reflects Parham's lack of strength and progress and the complete lack of development of Gold as an inside threat.
By contrast, I expected Owens to compete for a starting spot with Lowery this year. Stevens has surpassed both of them already. If I'm going to point my frustrations at players on the roster, I start with players other than a project player like Hamilton.
CH is a horizon league bench hopeful and he's been inserted into the SL over Parham. Speaking of Royce, there's no reason he can't be impactful despite "lacking strength." Many big guys without a ton of muscle and bulk find ways to make an impact with their athleticism, smarts, tenacity, etc. He's clearly a better player despite having some big flaws right now, which is more in terms of ball control.
There's been reports of MU's spending to recruit and retain their guys; there's reason to believe that adequate money could be moved to acquire a couple of difference-making transfers instead of retaining players that don't cut it at this level. Shaka is shooting himself in the foot with loyalty.
Quote from: panda on December 03, 2025, 11:44:25 AMHence why carrying Clark/hamilton/amadou the last two years killed us down the stretch last year and now this year.
Projects need to progress or they're useless in this day and age.
I don't get the eagerness of the staff to bring in all these projects. Make the initial connection, let them play at a low major for a year, and just try and poach them if they show any potential. Cross them off the list if not, which will be most of the time. Maybe we get burned 1 out of 20 times where a guy we could have had blows up and is no longer interested. I can live with that.
Investing that much in players who have a low chance of success seems so inefficient. Getting to the point of sunken cost with Hamilton since they're already 2.5 years deep. That's way too long considering how far he still has to go in this day and age.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 11:22:50 AMI was at the game. You?
I'm pretty surprised anyone at the game saw "a lot of progress" from Caedin.
QuoteHamilton was a project. You can take those on occasion, particularly with a 15 man roster. He didn't play high level basketball in HS. Frankly, I never expected him to start but thought he could be a decent backup his last two years.
Taking a project is fine. Taking a project who hasn't developed and forcing him into the starting lineup is a problem. Building a roster that requires you to start a project who hasn't developed is also a problem. And finally, handing out limited resources to players whose upside is "decent backup" 4-5 years down the road is a problem.
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 03, 2025, 12:26:13 PMI don't get the eagerness of the staff to bring in all these projects. Make the initial connection, let them play at a low major for a year, and just try and poach them if they show any potential. Cross them off the list if not, which will be most of the time. Maybe we get burned 1 out of 20 times where a guy we could have had blows up and is no longer interested. I can live with that.
Investing that much in players who have a low chance of success seems so inefficient. Getting to the point of sunken cost with Hamilton since they're already 2.5 years deep. That's way too long considering how far he still has to go in this day and age.
Rather just grab 3 star bigs than 0 stars literally no else offered. The 3s probably work out way more than ur Clarkes and Hamiltons
Quote from: MUbiz on December 03, 2025, 11:49:29 AMI still cannot comprehend that in 5 years, Shaka has recruited one 4 star big man- Sheek. And Sheek will not play until year six. That is roster malpractice. Not counting Oso as Oso was committed to MU pre Shaka.
It's not roster malpractice until it doesn't work. Last year, Kam papered over a lot of the roster deficiencies, which was enough to convince some of us (myself included) that this model was more sustainable than it now appears to be.
At the 5, we've had plenty of three star bigs (Gardner, Heldt, Otule, John) who were solid rotational pieces by their second/third years in the program. The problem is the growth. So far, these guys just haven't developed enough to contribute at the level needed based on the roster around them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 03, 2025, 03:56:59 PMIt's not roster malpractice until it doesn't work. Last year, Kam papered over a lot of the roster deficiencies, which was enough to convince some of us (myself included) that this model was more sustainable than it now appears to be.
At the 5, we've had plenty of three star bigs (Gardner, Heldt, Otule, John) who were solid rotational pieces by their second/third years in the program. The problem is the growth. So far, these guys just haven't developed enough to contribute at the level needed based on the roster around them.
Heldt was terrible
I know the Sheek situation is different, but thus far anybody this staff has redshirted has proven they're not just not ready, but not suited for this level, period.
Quote from: Markusquette on December 03, 2025, 04:05:32 PMHeldt was terrible
He wasn't terrible. He just wasn't a starting caliber center (which was the role he was forced into in 2017-18), but if he's your 10-15 mpg backup, he was perfectly adequate.
And to compare, any version of him from sophomore to senior year would be a 28-30 mpg starter on this team.
Quote from: Markusquette on December 03, 2025, 04:05:32 PMHeldt was terrible
Yeah right. Try telling that to those kids who enjoyed ice cream bc of him.
I expect the boys to get drilled by Wisconsin and Purdue period, full stop. I was at the Valpo game and I don't think I've seen a worse display of bascketball than the 1st half of that game in my life which spans 7 decades. At the same time they found a way to make the end of the game compelling viewing. There is merit in winning a close,sloppy game like that especialy given the recent history in close games. I think for the first time this season the boys did sort of get "lost in the fight" and they pulled it out. While that moight not be parade worthy it is progress. No matter what I tnink or anyone on the board thinks or says , this team is the team so you might as well put some lipsticlk on the pig and enjoy that which is ejoyable. I think the team has some pieces but they are not connected yet. It might be helpful to consider that the players you are comparing these players to, were not the same players they were as sophamores and juniors. I'm disposed to cut the boys some slack.
Suppose Owens leaves at the end of the season, who do you take out of the pportal? You've got two top forty players coming in next season and certainly James and Stevens will be capable starters next season . the jury is still out on Parham and Hamilton and Clark is still an unknown. The future look pretty bright to me. While I find the RGV stuff to be pretty pathetic and useless I thinke Shaka has changed his attitude in recruiting already by going after players that fit the team's needs instead of recruiting players that fit his style. I'm hoping for an NIT bid and a way better next year and I'm more interested in the latter thatn the former. I don't see any portal action on the horizon and certainly not for an upper classman who will move on
Quote from: Pakuni on December 03, 2025, 12:33:01 PMI'm pretty surprised anyone at the game saw "a lot of progress" from Caedin.
Taking a project is fine. Taking a project who hasn't developed and forcing him into the starting lineup is a problem. Building a roster that requires you to start a project who hasn't developed is also a problem. And finally, handing out limited resources to players whose upside is "decent backup" 4-5 years down the road is a problem.
I'm surprised you cannot see how much Hamilton has progressed since first arriving at MU. He's not a good player but he's a lot better than he was. Contrast that with Owens who has regressed and Parham and Lowery who are not playing any better than they did a year ago. Did you see Norman's 3 attempt last night? I actually laughed.
I'm sure you and others want Shaka to run Hamilton and Clark after the season. Look on the bright side. Maybe he will.
So let's say they go 10-21, lose there best player, and you think you should not add a wing or a center? Sheek is a skinny big that was not an offensive player on his team, will help for sure, but not sure he will be able to handle the physicality. Militic and Phillips, might be good in due time but not sure neither will pan out. You can go with James, Stevens and Zaide, but he is a complimentary player that's never been a star on any team. Will not happen next year. Need a solid 10-15 point player.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 03, 2025, 06:12:10 PMSo let's say they go 10-21, lose there best player, and you think you should not add a wing or a center? Sheek is a skinny big that was not an offensive player on his team, will help for sure, but not sure he will be able to handle the physicality. Militic and Phillips, might be good in due time but not sure neither will pan out. You can go with James, Stevens and Zaide, but he is a complimentary player that's never been a star on any team. Will not happen next year. Need a solid 10-15 point player.
their vs. there, Miletic vs. Militic, complementary vs. complimentary, etc.
Please make it stop.
Guess I better go back to school, not sure I will ever get the right words right, maybe it matters to you but I could care less, you can stop now!
One question I have is, after our poor late season performance last year and Kam leaving....Shaka looks at the roster aka crap pile, that is coming back and thinks....oh, we will be fine next year, we will develop over the Summer, etc.
Don't the coaches discuss the roster strength and weaknesses.
How does shaka think we had a prayer of being good this year?
Ok, 2 questions. Shaka needs to have his brain activity measured.
O Captain my Captian, I am sure that they do. I can't speak for the staff but my guess is that they liked the incoming class especially James and Stevens. I assume they anticipated a 10 man rotation lead by Gold, who as a senior would surely become a leader be something like a 14 and 7 type player. They guessed right with Ross. They probably thougjt that Jones would stay healthy and play himself into shape. If everybody coming back got just a little better the team would be up to the task of getting into the NCAA again and be ready to explode the next season. I have no bones to pick with Shaka but I would given Wojo one more season. His last year was his best coaching year in my opinion. Post Howard he had a team that he needed to coach and not lean on talent. I was put off by the vile anger that came with his dismissal. Now you are disenchanted the the savior you all begged to hire. I would ask that you consider this, If Justin Lewis doesn't get hurt and miss 6 games in the middle of the conference season MU gets a bid and Wojo stays. If Shaka doesn't lose a 3/14 matchup in the 1st round he doesn't get fired. So you moved some chairs around and now you don't like the way it looks, how long until you demand a new hero?
Shaka wasn't fired but the seat was hot after that for sure
Hawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.
As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.
Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year
Quote from: Captain Quette on December 03, 2025, 10:58:11 PMWorst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year
This is ridiculous. Buzz's last year was still a bubble team with a bit to go two of Wojo's were trash
Quote from: hawk on December 03, 2025, 09:48:36 PMO Captain my Captian, I am sure that they do. I can't speak for the staff but my guess is that they liked the incoming class especially James and Stevens. I assume they anticipated a 10 man rotation lead by Gold, who as a senior would surely become a leader be something like a 14 and 7 type player. They guessed right with Ross. They probably thougjt that Jones would stay healthy and play himself into shape. If everybody coming back got just a little better the team would be up to the task of getting into the NCAA again and be ready to explode the next season. I have no bones to pick with Shaka but I would given Wojo one more season. His last year was his best coaching year in my opinion. Post Howard he had a team that he needed to coach and not lean on talent. I was put off by the vile anger that came with his dismissal. Now you are disenchanted the the savior you all begged to hire. I would ask that you consider this, If Justin Lewis doesn't get hurt and miss 6 games in the middle of the conference season MU gets a bid and Wojo stays. If Shaka doesn't lose a 3/14 matchup in the 1st round he doesn't get fired. So you moved some chairs around and now you don't like the way it looks, how long until you demand a new hero?
Wojo was not a good coach. Did he deserve to get axed? Arguable, pending what standard you have for MUBB but I think it's fair to say that he was given ample time to prove himself and his highlight year ended in the most epic collapse of MUBB.
But when Justin got hurt we were .500 that team wasn't making the tournament if he was around. Additionally, most looks run were for carton Koby or Garcia so I think that's an excuse for a bad team that every metric showed was in fact a bad team.
As far as how long? Two years, Shaka is entitled to a down year maybe two. I'm off the boat after two unless he tries something huge to switch things up.
Tough crowd but I get that. I am less disturbed by the opinions of these posts as I am by the anger,attitude and disregard for the effort and talent of the plaers invovlved. I see no reason to asail the talent on this team as a pile of crap. Life is simple not easy and success, however you define it is both difficult and fleeting. I do have one question however and it is a question of balance. Teams are allowed 15 players now instead of 13. How can you decide in advance the better policy as a program? If you recruited 13 players from high school every year and used two in the portal to fill gaps real or imagined or if you recruited 13 players from high school with the intention of playing them and 2 players every year to redshirt them for development, how could you tell which has the advantage until it has been a practice for at least 2 or 3 recruiting cycles? I think it is simply too soon to pass judgement on either tactic. I tjhink probably no coach wants 15 new players every year and over time every coach will dip into the portal somewhat. Perhaps it is best just to wait until the waters settle over time to come into balance. Under any circumstanmce being men and women of the Jesuit tradition maybe everyone should try to remain calm, not overreact to any one season and try to engage with the other in understanding and compassion. If we are Marquette perhaps we should be more understanding of each other.
Quote from: hawk on December 04, 2025, 12:43:44 AMIf we are Marquette perhaps we should be more understanding of each other.
hawk likes to use lots of words and tell us that he should understand us more.
Quote from: Captain Quette on December 03, 2025, 10:58:11 PMHawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.
As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.
Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year
You should hav been there as a student 1987 - 1991 during the Dukiet years.
Quote from: Captain Quette on December 03, 2025, 10:58:11 PMHawk - carpe diem and great thoughts on what the coaching might have been thinking. But almost a totally wrong analysis by the staff nonetheless. They were way off on this roster.
As to wojo, I was unhappy with him, especially his technical coaching skills but was OK giving him 1 more year. He was a good recruiter and had some good teams and never hit rock bottom like this.
Worst mu teams I can remember:
1. This year by far
2. Buzz last year
3. 1991, KOs 2nd year
Were you blackout drunk from 2014 through 2021? Because Wojo's first and last teams were definitely worse than Buzz's last year.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 04, 2025, 07:25:22 AMYou should hav been there as a student 1987 - 1991 during the Dukiet years.
Wonder what Tony Candelino is up to these days...
Quote from: The Sultan on December 04, 2025, 07:57:20 AMWonder what Tony Candelino is up to these days...
According to a Google search, he's coaching basketball in Florida.
https://www.fieldlevel.com/app/coach-profile/anthony.candelino
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 03, 2025, 06:10:13 PMI'm surprised you cannot see how much Hamilton has progressed since first arriving at MU. He's not a good player but he's a lot better than he was. Contrast that with Owens who has regressed and Parham and Lowery who are not playing any better than they did a year ago. Did you see Norman's 3 attempt last night? I actually laughed.
I'm sure Hamilton has progressed and worked hard, but this isn't summer camp or middle school house league. Improving from a 0 star recruit to a low-major college basketball player is great, but just improving is not good enough to play almost 20 minutes a night at a program with Marquette's aspirations. It's not Caedin's fault. He's been put in a no-win situation by his coaches.
As for Tre, he's not good either. But he's getting half the time, in sheltered minutes, and at least brings some defensive value to the court.
QuoteI'm sure you and others want Shaka to run Hamilton and Clark after the season. Look on the bright side. Maybe he will.
Meh. Don't really care one way or the other if they stay or go. But there's really no incentive for them to leave, if MU's NIL structure is as has been reported. Get paid for sitting on the bench at MU or get peanuts for playing time in the Big South?
I just want Shaka to recruit more based on talent than traits.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 03, 2025, 04:16:07 PMHe wasn't terrible. He just wasn't a starting caliber center (which was the role he was forced into in 2017-18), but if he's your 10-15 mpg backup, he was perfectly adequate.
And to compare, any version of him from sophomore to senior year would be a 28-30 mpg starter on this team.
We're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.
Quote from: Markusquette on December 04, 2025, 10:03:32 AMWe're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.
We are, in fact, in deep crap.
Heldt would be the best post option on this team if the coach continued to insist that Ben Gold should play the 4.
Quote from: hawk on December 03, 2025, 05:27:37 PMI think the team has some pieces but they are not connected yet.
While I find the RGV stuff to be pretty pathetic and useless I think Shaka has changed his attitude in recruiting already by going after players that fit the team's needs instead of recruiting players that fit his style.
While Hawk packed a lot into his post, these are the two points on which I wholly agree. The first one, particularly, is something I've seen from this team. They don't seem to play as a group and they certainly don't appear to be executing either Coach Shaka's offense or defense, especially when compared to past years.
I don't know whether we've just recruited players who aren't right for Coach Shaka's system or they just don't have the talent to execute what Coach wants. Neither is a good situation, which I hope leads to more of the latter point -- getting people who can meet specific team needs.
On the portal, I'm one of those people who believes Marquette has the money the men's basketball program needs to go after just about anyone Coach Shaka wants or needs. Admittedly, paying someone an outlying amount of money may disrupt what the basketball program has now, but a continued trend toward losing will certainly be more disruptive.
The real question is what's the minimum contribution the greater university expects from the basketball operations to fund other priorities. That's the real constraint under which Marquette operates.
All this said, Coach Shaka's success across the past four years warrants patience. Last thing I want is yet another coaching failure! Cut the man some slack!
I couldn't dunk in HS ( or make the team ) but I do remember playing as hard as I could when I did play. It's hard to imagine our guys aren't playing their best and trying their hardest to compete on this big stage.
I'm disappointed in our record so far but will continue to respect their effort.
I understand Hamilton was always a project, but the issue is, they built the entire front court of the future out of projects. And has a single wild card for Shaka truly worked out at this point?
He is not only a negative high major player. He is a negative when considering the average Division I player. I don't know what people expected he'd be if this is better than they planned for...
Quote from: Markusquette on December 04, 2025, 10:03:32 AMWe're in deep crap if Matt Heldt is a 28-30mpg starter on this year's team lol. Which, you are sadly probably right.
Well, as I look around I'm up to my knees in a brown substance and it sure doesn't smell like chocolate.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 04, 2025, 07:47:03 AMWere you blackout drunk from 2014 through 2021? Because Wojo's first and last teams were definitely worse than Buzz's last year.
Could be convinced that buzz last year was not that bad. Think there were 3 guys on that team who appeared in the NBA. They went 17 n 2, I believe.
Was at mu with Dukiet and at least those teams played hard and we had some semblance of an offense. Example, I think there was a scrum during a game and Candelino bit a player from the other team. Don't see anyone on this soft as hell, can I get a hug roster....do that. We have no fight.
I thought we were gonna stink this past summer, then became optimistic and said 18 wins, current thought is 10 to 11 wins.
I wonder if the Hausers would write more letters.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 04, 2025, 07:47:03 AMWere you blackout drunk from 2014 through 2021? Because Wojo's first and last teams were definitely worse than Buzz's last year.
This has more to do with roster balance...
But only Chase Ross, Ben Gold, and maybe Royce Parham would start for either the 2014 or 2021 wojo teams.
Quote from: Captain Quette on December 04, 2025, 01:23:27 PMWas at mu with Dukiet and at least those teams played hard and we had some semblance of an offense. Example, I think there was a scrum during a game and Candelino bit a player from the other team. Don't see anyone on this soft as hell, can I get a hug roster....do that. We have no fight.
With all due respect, Shaka's teams have not been soft since he has been here and his offenses have been quite fine.
And don't "yeah but" the Dukiet-era. The only thing positive about that era is that it ended.
Man, some of you guys need to get a grip and gain some perspective. Yes there are problems that need to be fixed, but y'all are acting like we're Nebraska football and haven't won anything for 20 years.
Quote from: onepost on December 03, 2025, 10:03:31 AMFor the hundredth time, we have the money.
replying here, but general question...do RGV swag sales support NIL?
Quote from: hawk on December 04, 2025, 12:43:44 AMTough crowd but I get that. I am less disturbed by the opinions of these posts as I am by the anger,attitude and disregard for the effort and talent of the plaers invovlved. I see no reason to asail the talent on this team as a pile of crap. Life is simple not easy and success, however you define it is both difficult and fleeting. I do have one question however and it is a question of balance. Teams are allowed 15 players now instead of 13. How can you decide in advance the better policy as a program? If you recruited 13 players from high school every year and used two in the portal to fill gaps real or imagined or if you recruited 13 players from high school with the intention of playing them and 2 players every year to redshirt them for development, how could you tell which has the advantage until it has been a practice for at least 2 or 3 recruiting cycles? I think it is simply too soon to pass judgement on either tactic. I tjhink probably no coach wants 15 new players every year and over time every coach will dip into the portal somewhat. Perhaps it is best just to wait until the waters settle over time to come into balance. Under any circumstanmce being men and women of the Jesuit tradition maybe everyone should try to remain calm, not overreact to any one season and try to engage with the other in understanding and compassion. If we are Marquette perhaps we should be more understanding of each other.
...I understand we are really bad. Dukiet era bad. Imagine those teams without Tony Smith? Imagine this team without Chase Ross? Yikes.
At the risk of arousing angry Scoopers, we're pointing too much of the finger at Caedin Hamilton. We we all can agree that he's not developed as Coach Shaka has hoped, Mr. Hamilton hardly is the largest problem we have.
We win as a team. We lose as a team. Hamilton has not missed a boatload of threes. Nor was he any more than one cog in an inability to execute in the waning minutes of several losses and near losses. No one person, not even Chase, can carry the team by himself.
Nobody ever expected Hamilton was going to be the next Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. This train wreck is everyone's fault.
Quote from: Duane6 on December 03, 2025, 11:58:43 AMHe had 10 rebounds vs Valpo and was 1/5 with 2 turnovers. Walk ons also bring good energy
The announcer (Butch) was extremely positive towards Marquette, but he even criticized CH on at least three occasions: not having his hand up on D when the guy he was guarding hit a turnaround J over him, not hustling to save a ball going out of bounce (that Valpo saved and got a second chance), and he lost focus and let the guy he was guarding back-door him for an easy layup. I don't remember Butch criticizing anyone else, outside of stating the obvious - they need to start draining these open looks...
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 04, 2025, 03:07:24 PMAt the risk of arousing angry Scoopers, we're pointing too much of the finger at Caedin Hamilton. We we all can agree that he's not developed as Coach Shaka has hoped, Mr. Hamilton hardly is the largest problem we have.
We win as a team. We lose as a team. Hamilton has missed a boatload of threes. Nor was he any more than one cog in an inability to execute in the waning minutes of several losses and near losses. No one person, not even Chase, can carry the team by himself.
Nobody ever expected Hamilton was going to be the next Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. This train wreck is everyone's fault.
The train wreck isn't everyone's fault. It's very clearly a small group of people's fault.
It's definitely not Caedin's fault he's been thrust into a situation he clearly wasn't - and may never be - prepared for. He's taking an unfair amount of criticism because he best exemplifies what's gone wrong this season and why some here have concerns about the future. He's not the only one, but he's (literally) front and center.
Quote from: AverageJoe on December 04, 2025, 03:19:44 PMThe announcer (Butch) was extremely positive towards Marquette, but he even criticized CH on at least three occasions: not having his hand up on D when the guy he was guarding hit a turnaround J over him, not hustling to save a ball going out of bounce (that Valpo saved and got a second chance), and he lost focus and let the guy he was guarding back-door him for an easy layup. I don't remember Butch criticizing anyone else, outside of stating the obvious - they need to start draining these open looks...
He also criticized Owens for a ridiculously bad "box out" where he had his back to the basket, shoved the guy he was trying to box out to the ground, and got called for a foul. Example 1A of why DO doesn't get minutes right now.
This is unrelated and maybe not the thread for it, but Butch has been a terrific color guy for these low level games. Great enthusiasm and spot on analysis. He doesn't have the name recognition outside of Wisconsin to get the big national games right now, but I'm rooting for him to work his way up. Even if he is a former Badger.
Quote from: Viper on December 04, 2025, 02:43:15 PM...I understand we are really bad. Dukiet era bad. Imagine those teams without Tony Smith? Imagine this team without Chase Ross? Yikes.
💡 Eureka!
Take it completely over, Chase! 🏀
Quote from: AverageJoe on December 04, 2025, 03:19:44 PMThe announcer (Butch) was extremely positive towards Marquette, but he even criticized CH on at least three occasions: not having his hand up on D when the guy he was guarding hit a turnaround J over him, not hustling to save a ball going out of bounce (that Valpo saved and got a second chance), and he lost focus and let the guy he was guarding back-door him for an easy layup. I don't remember Butch criticizing anyone else, outside of stating the obvious - they need to start draining these open looks...
Yep. And if we shoot 35% from 3 all season instead of 30% we cover up the loss to Oklahoma, and probably one of Dayton or Maryland or both. For the math nerds improving to 35% from 3 means we'd have scored just over 28 more points over those 9 games, or about just over one more 3 per game. And depending on which games those buckets landed Marquette could easily be a shakey looking 8-1 or 7-2 team. I'm sure we'd all feel a lot better if our record was 7-2 with wins over Dayton and Oklahoma.
Wins happen on a thin line.
That is an excellent point. On the other hand if you can't make more ....take more. If Gold is going to hang on the outside he can't ever be 1 for 3 at halftime. I see no reason he can't get 12 shots a game
Quote from: The Sultan on December 04, 2025, 02:02:47 PMWith all due respect, Shaka's teams have not been soft since he has been here and his offenses have been quite fine.
And don't "yeah but" the Dukiet-era. The only thing positive about that era is that it ended.
Man, some of you guys need to get a grip and gain some perspective. Yes there are problems that need to be fixed, but y'all are acting like we're Nebraska football and haven't won anything for 20 years.
Aa to being soft, that is what is so perplexing. Up until this season, our man to man D was really good. This year, yuk. We don't stop ball penetration, play poor overall perimeter D, not good at contesting shots. Easy answer is low ability of players but it seems we are lazy and unwilling as well.
Outside of when Kolek ran point, not sure our offense has been fine and shaka has never been known as offensive minded. His offensive sets are bewildering and lack of 3 point shooting and improvement in shooting is a joke.
I am not in the camp of fire shaka, just hoping for change in roster construction approach in re next year. Rolling w the current left overs plus recruits for next year is just silly.
You can't change coaches like you change your underwear. To fire Shake would be fairly stupid I think. Programs require some sort of continuity and rolling through a buch of coaches didn't do much for De Paul. Who off the top of your head, would you replace him with?
Quote from: hawk on December 05, 2025, 11:13:42 AMYou can't change coaches like you change your underwear. To fire Shake would be fairly stupid I think.
Who has said such things? Other than people saying he's fine but having problems this year and shouldn't be fired.
Quote from: hawk on December 05, 2025, 11:13:42 AMWho off the top of your head, would you replace him with?
I'm not in the fire Shaka camp, but if he pulled a Jay Wright and retired rather than having to change his roster building philosophy, the calls I'd make would be Kyle Smith (Stanford), Josh Schertz (St Louis), and Chris Gerlufsen (San Francisco). Probably worth seeing if there's a number that could get Mark Byington (Vanderbilt). Chris Mack, Craig Smith, and Russell Turner would be decent fallbacks too.
Bottom line, there's always quality options out there if you find yourself in need of a coach.
The coaching staff put a lot of faith in player improvement, particularly Lowery, Owens, Parham and Hamilton. To date, they have been low Ds to Fs. Whether there was potential for significant development is debatable. Struck out too many times in these particular recruiting classes. Hopefully, the staff learns from it, and learns to cut losses before having another complete dud of a season.
As was the case with Wojo or Deane or Dukiet, you don't stay with a coach you doubt can win long-term just because "Who could we get to replace him?" There are always plenty of good coaches out there.
That said, Shaka ain't going anywhere, and we're gonna win again with him.