Late in the game, around a minute and half left.. who do we put out? Nigel, Chase, Zaide, Royce, Gold. No brainer. They should be the norm. And it was like, 'why tf is this an UNUSUAL LINEUP?'.
I don't get it. I don't want to 'attack' certain players, but I will say I'd be playing the obvious top 5 together a lot and I sure as hell would be getting Damarius run.
The lineup choices suck right now. WTF. It's slowly starting to skew in the favor of sanity, but it's too slow and not early on in games. It's bizarre.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 28, 2025, 08:06:59 PMLate in the game, around a minute and half left.. who do we put out? Nigel, Chase, Zaide, Royce, Gold. No brainer. They should be the norm. And it was like, 'why tf is this an UNUSUAL LINEUP?'.
I don't get it. I don't want to 'attack' certain players, but I will say I'd be playing the obvious top 5 together a lot and I sure as hell would be getting Damarius run.
The lineup choices suck right now. WTF. It's slowly starting to skew in the favor of sanity, but it's too slow and not early on in games. It's bizarre.
Truly, it is your fault.
Anyone wish we would have hired Porter?
You'd be getting Damarius some run ??
Damarius Owens? lol
Quote from: Mu8891 on November 28, 2025, 09:19:25 PMYou'd be getting Damarius some run ??
Damarius Owens? lol
We already suck. Owens showed/shows a high level of potential. Just let him work it out.
Agreed, a lost season already, might as well develop players.
Quote from: panda on November 28, 2025, 09:20:22 PMWe already suck. Owens showed/shows a high level of potential. Just let him work it out.
Quote from: Mu8891 on November 28, 2025, 09:19:25 PMYou'd be getting Damarius some run ??
Damarius Owens? lol
Yes. 100%. Over the minutes we're currently giving? Hell yes. These minutes have been criminal.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 28, 2025, 10:12:15 PMYes. 100%. Over the minutes we're currently giving? Hell yes. These minutes have been criminal.
Caedin might break through if we play him 25 mins/game tho
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 28, 2025, 09:23:33 PMAgreed, a lost season already, might as well develop players.
Careful! Wades will assume you're the GM saying this.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 10:59:14 PMCareful! Wades will assume you're the GM saying this.
Yes. If you're telling Shaka to pull redshirts in a lost season, you are definitely playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.
Chase and Nigel need 35 per for the rest of the season. Then distribute to guys who might still make a difference in 26-27. Ben/caedin/Royce minutes need to go way down. Get josh run to see if there's enough there to have hope for next year - at the very least maybe he can develop into a semi- competent rim protector. Any Tre minutes to Phillips and Stevens. Maybe some small lineups with Phillips at 4.
And really, I think the only even remotely plausible chance (and its pretty remote) at salvaging THIS season is major in-season development with the frosh. I could see Nigel continuing to progress to all BE 3rd or 2nd team - but would also take Stevens or Phillips (or both) jumping to top-tier 6 man level which seems pretty far fetched. Of course even then without a competent big man we're probably doomed.
But since PU and UW are now pretty much both must wins for any chance at all. If Chase and Nigel don't both play 37+ in each of those games I'd be shocked.
Now that it's I'd essentially a lost season, I wouldn't mind Owens get more opportunities. He's a mess right now, but at least there's the possibility of a high-major player there if he figures it out.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 07:37:04 AMNow that it's I'd essentially a lost season, I wouldn't mind Owens get more opportunities. He's a mess right now, but at least there's the possibility of a high-major player there if he figures it out.
So.......he can't figure it out in practice enough to see the floor in games.......but the scoop solution is get him out on the court and have him figure it out. Makes sense.
#muMbb — LOST IN THE FIGHT, literally.
At this point I'd reduce Gold (12 minutes per) and park Hamilton. Go with Ross, James, Lowery, Steven's, Phillips, Clark for Hamilton, Parham, Jones & Norman are tbd's based on starter fatigue, game flow and foul trouble. Basically, Gold's minutes are cut, Hamilton and Owens on the pine. From where MU currently sits, it can't get much worse. Looking ahead, we'll beat Valpo. Wisconsin is a loss, but RED isn't to be feared. Purdue will be an asss kick. Painter will call off the dogs up 30 having eclipsed 100.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 07:37:04 AMNow that it's I'd essentially a lost season, I wouldn't mind Owens get more opportunities. He's a mess right now, but at least there's the possibility of a high-major player there if he figures it out.
My guess is his practice efforts are not there. Shaka puts a lot of emphasis on that. It is not just about throwing guys in.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 08:30:56 AMSo.......he can't figure it out in practice enough to see the floor in games.......but the scoop solution is get him out on the court and have him figure it out. Makes sense.
How do you know he can't figure it out in practice?
Also ...
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/38/91/5c3891114ac9fa61e0f27f9ae58f6760.gif)
If he did........wait for it......he might get on the floor duting games. Crazy idea, I know.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 08:30:56 AMSo.......he can't figure it out in practice enough to see the floor in games.......but the scoop solution is get him out on the court and have him figure it out. Makes sense.
I hear what you're saying, but it seems like Shaka is using the games/season to figure it out. DO definitely lacks confidence which will only grow in a game. He is a superb athlete, tell him he's got four minutes to work his tail off, make mistakes, make plays, just to get after it.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on November 29, 2025, 10:48:38 AMI hear what you're saying, but it seems like Shaka is using the games/season to figure it out. DO definitely lacks confidence which will only grow in a game. He is a superb athlete, tell him he's got four minutes to work his tail off, make mistakes, make plays, just to get after it.
How do you know he "lacks confidence" and just isn't "bad at high level D1 basketball?"
Maybe he will put it together, but usually wishing for the bench guy to play more doesn't result in better play.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on November 29, 2025, 10:48:38 AMI hear what you're saying, but it seems like Shaka is using the games/season to figure it out. DO definitely lacks confidence which will only grow in a game. He is a superb athlete, tell him he's got four minutes to work his tail off, make mistakes, make plays, just to get after it.
Yes. If you're going to put CH out there I don't see the reasoning for no DO. Must be some other stuff going on.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on November 29, 2025, 10:48:38 AMI hear what you're saying, but it seems like Shaka is using the games/season to figure it out. DO definitely lacks confidence which will only grow in a game. He is a superb athlete, tell him he's got four minutes to work his tail off, make mistakes, make plays, just to get after it.
He got the message about making mistakes.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 29, 2025, 10:51:09 AMHow do you know he "lacks confidence" and just isn't "bad at high level D1 basketball?"
Maybe he will put it together, but usually wishing for the bench guy to play more doesn't result in better play.
Of course, I don't know. I am simply going off how he plays when he's on the floor, how he shoots when he's on the floor, and how tentative he is. Growing up an athlete and coaching young people for years, to me, and only me, he looks like he has a number of tools and is getting in his own head. Some guys never get there mentally, perhaps he is one, but he clearly has the ability to play D1 basketball.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 07:37:04 AMNow that it's I'd essentially a lost season, I wouldn't mind Owens get more opportunities. He's a mess right now, but at least there's the possibility of a high-major player there if he figures it out.
They should be doing their best to win the UW and Purdue games, however unlikely. After that I agree completely.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 10:31:04 AMIf he did........wait for it......he might get on the floor duting games. Crazy idea, I know.
So, your theory is DO figured it out well enough in practice all off- and preseason to earn 10+ minutes per game over first five games, then abruptly stopped figuring it out in practice and lost playing time as a result.
Another theory. Shaka gave DO minutes during games, but DO was terrible during games and as a result ... wait for it ... stopped getting minutes during games.
Shaka's priority to this point has been winning games, not rewarding practice effort/performance. So, if a player is failing and can't be trusted during games, he's not likely to play, regardless of how hard he tries or how much he gets it in the basement of The AL.
For whatever reason, you're ignoring the obvious: DO isn't playing in games because when he's had his chance in games, he's been terrible.
Crazy idea, I know.
At some point soon, if we're not already there, Shaka's priority probably should turn from winning games to developing his players for next year. And if that means playing Owens more, he should do that.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 01:06:05 PMSo, your theory is DO figured it out well enough in practice all off- and preseason to earn 10+ minutes per game over first five games, then abruptly stopped figuring it out in practice and lost playing time as a result.
Another theory. Shaka gave DO minutes during games, but DO was terrible during games and as a result ... wait for it ... stopped getting minutes during games.
Shaka's priority to this point has been winning games, not rewarding practice effort/performance. So, if a player is failing and can't be trusted during games, he's not likely to play, regardless of how hard he tries or how much he gets it in the basement of The AL.
For whatever reason, you're ignoring the obvious: DO isn't playing in games because when he's had his chance in games, he's been terrible.
Crazy idea, I know.
At some point soon, if we're not already there, Shaka's priority probably should turn from winning games to developing his players for next year. And if that means playing Owens more, he should do that.
I'm not sure it's ever a good idea for a coach's priority to turn from winning games.
Our conversations tend to focus on the relationship between not using the portal and talent level. But does a public rejection of the portal also affect/reduce the competitive edge among players within the program? For the last three years there has been a year-over-year reduction in talent and leadership, and with a Jr class that has one high-major contributor, that will continue in 26-27 w/o a change in philosophy.
I've been hesitant to post about it, because I don't think its as simple as "durr these guys are lazy because they know they won't lose PT and NIL $ to portal guys" and I don't have any unique insight on it. But there seems to be a distinct lack of edge within the program right now. With every other program in the country using the portal, its tough not to infer causation from correlation.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 01:06:05 PMShaka's priority to this point has been winning games, not rewarding practice effort/performance. So, if a player is failing and can't be trusted during games, he's not likely to play, regardless of how hard he tries or how much he gets it in the basement of The AL.
Ummm.... that's not what I've seen.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 01:06:05 PMSo, your theory is DO figured it out well enough in practice all off- and preseason to earn 10+ minutes per game over first five games, then abruptly stopped figuring it out in practice and lost playing time as a result.
Another theory. Shaka gave DO minutes during games, but DO was terrible during games and as a result ... wait for it ... stopped getting minutes during games.
Shaka's priority to this point has been winning games, not rewarding practice effort/performance. So, if a player is failing and can't be trusted during games, he's not likely to play, regardless of how hard he tries or how much he gets it in the basement of The AL.
For whatever reason, you're ignoring the obvious: DO isn't playing in games because when he's had his chance in games, he's been terrible.
Crazy idea, I know.
At some point soon, if we're not already there, Shaka's priority probably should turn from winning games to developing his players for next year. And if that means playing Owens more, he should do that.
No....my theory is I would defer to the head coach who sees DO practice, and watch film, and understanding his assignments on a daily basis, as opposed to a guy on the internet who thinks he knows more than the coach.
If DO isn't getting it in practice.....he isn't going to be given the opportunity to "prove" him wrong in games. That's absurd.
I am not willing to go along with the dumpster fire/the seasons over ppoint of view. MU's pr3eseason T rank was 52 and today it was somethhing like 65 up from 72. I would agree that the NCAA is out of reach unless they pull a Georgetown and swep the conference tourny. Assuming they win one more preconference game and enter conference play at 5 and 6 you'd need to find 9 wins in conference to get the NIT. That is a goal. As far as the line goesI'd say you have Ross and James and a bunch or just regular guys. I'm really disapoinkted in Gold but he is still the best pos player they have. I like parham he could find himself in the big east season. I would agree that clark needs some minutes, at least he can dunk. I'd play until he gets tired just to see what he can do. I'd also find minutes for stevens and Philips. I think Owens is toast. Regardless of talent level MU needs to play guys that have an attitude and can play angry.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 01:58:34 PMNo....my theory is I would defer to the head coach who sees DO practice, and watch film, and understanding his assignments on a daily basis, as opposed to a guy on the internet who thinks he knows more than the coach.
If DO isn't getting it in practice.....he isn't going to be given the opportunity to "prove" him wrong in games. That's absurd.
LOL. Are you intentionally misunderstanding my point because you want yo argue or are you just not getting it?
8 games in and it's clear Caedin is not ready to contribute at this level. There could still be something there his junior and senior years.
However, if Shaka doesn't continue to cut his minutes, let alone continues to start him, he should be questioned.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 02:56:04 PMLOL. Are you intentionally misunderstanding my point because you want yo argue or are you just not getting it?
Lets try this.....
1. Shaka does not feel that DO should be playing/has not earned playing time.
2. You think Shaka should play DO regardless of how he is playing/practicing and let him work it out.
3. Regardless of your 5th grade approach.....Shaka isn't playing him.
Shaka certainly can be criticized for several things this season. If you have watched DO at all this season, allowing DO to "play through it" during games isn't one of them.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 03:12:07 PMLets try this.....
1. Shaka does not feel that DO should be playing/has not earned playing time.
2. You think Shaka should play DO regardless of how he is playing/practicing and let him work it out.
3. Regardless of your 5th grade approach.....Shaka isn't playing him.
Shaka certainly can be criticized for several things this season. If you have watched DO at all this season, allowing DO to "play through it" during games isn't one of them.
Caedin's EGB'e definitely warrants at least 30 mins/game
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 03:13:55 PMCaedin's EGB'e definitely warrants at least 30 mins/game
Ok
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 03:12:07 PMLets try this.....
1. Shaka does not feel that DO should be playing/has not earned playing time.
2. You think Shaka should play DO regardless of how he is playing/practicing and let him work it out.
3. Regardless of your 5th grade approach.....Shaka isn't playing him.
Shaka certainly can be criticized for several things this season. If you have watched DO at all this season, allowing DO to "play through it" during games isn't one of them.
Could you please point out where I ever wrote DO should be allowed to "play through it?" You're making crap up because you want to argue. And then putting it in quotes as if I wrote it.
Speaking of making stuff up, you've invented up a scenario where DO's lack of minutes recently is because he's not figuring it out in practice. But you have no clue how he's performing in practice. What we do know is that he apparently practiced well enough during the dozens of offseason and preseason practices to earn 10+ minutes per game in the first 5 games of the season. It's only after he performed poorly
in actual games that his minutes were reduced. The more likely scenario here is that his loss of PT is a result of his poor play
during games, not some sudden decline in his practice. That's also speculation on my part, but at least it's informed speculation. We all see how he's struggling in games. You know zero about how he's practicing.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 03:37:48 PMCould you please point out where I ever wrote DO should be allowed to "play through it?" You're making crap up because you want to argue. And then putting it in quotes as if I wrote it.
Speaking of making stuff up, you've invented up a scenario where DO's lack of minutes recently is because he's not figuring it out in practice. But you have no clue how he's performing in practice. What we do know is that he apparently practiced well enough during the dozens of offseason and preseason practices to earn 10+ minutes per game in the first 5 games of the season. It's only after he performed poorly in actual games that his minutes were reduced. The more likely scenario here is that his loss of PT is a result of his poor play during games, not some sudden decline in his practice. That's also speculation on my part, but at least it's informed speculation. We all see how he's struggling in games. You know zero about how he's practicing.
So he's struggling in games....and is a hot mess.....but he should just play more to work it out??
Why are his minutes decreasing? I wonder if he is not understanding his assignments, not sure where he should be on the floor, hesitant with his shot, fumbling the ball.......but Im sure that is only happening in games.
If Shaka goes.....you should submit your resume.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 03:37:48 PMCould you please point out where I ever wrote DO should be allowed to "play through it?" You're making crap up because you want to argue. And then putting it in quotes as if I wrote it.
Speaking of making stuff up, you've invented up a scenario where DO's lack of minutes recently is because he's not figuring it out in practice. But you have no clue how he's performing in practice. What we do know is that he apparently practiced well enough during the dozens of offseason and preseason practices to earn 10+ minutes per game in the first 5 games of the season. It's only after he performed poorly in actual games that his minutes were reduced. The more likely scenario here is that his loss of PT is a result of his poor play during games, not some sudden decline in his practice. That's also speculation on my part, but at least it's informed speculation. We all see how he's struggling in games. You know zero about how he's practicing.
Something is definitely up with DO. He should be playing much more but isn't.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 03:42:52 PMSo he's struggling in games....and is a hot mess.....but he should just play more to work it out??
Why are his minutes decreasing? I wonder if he is not understanding his assignments, not sure where he should be on the floor, hesitant with his shot, fumbling the ball.......but Im sure that is only happening in games. /
Again, I never said he "should play more to work it out." Do better.
And if he's "not understanding his assignments, not sure where he should be on the floor, hesitant with his shot, fumbling the ball" in practice, why was Shaka running him out there for 10 minutes a game for the first three weeks of the season? Do practice habits not matter until game 6 and beyond?
For some weird reason you're trying to force a scenario rather than accept the more obvious conclusion.
QuoteIf Shaka goes.....you should submit your resume.
(https://media.tenor.com/yrLVs3k3b_MAAAAM/rolling-eyes-rock.gif)
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 03:37:48 PMCould you please point out where I ever wrote DO should be allowed to "play through it?" You're making crap up because you want to argue. And then putting it in quotes as if I wrote it.
Well you didn't exactly say that...
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 07:37:04 AMNow that it's I'd essentially a lost season, I wouldn't mind Owens get more opportunities. He's a mess right now, but at least there's the possibility of a high-major player there if he figures it out.
But I'm pretty sure giving DO "more opportunities" so he "figures it out" is pretty much playing through it.
Shaka has played DO 3 minutes, 9 minutes, and 0 minutes the last three games. He has not improved, he is lost. Lost on offense and defense. Shaka has seen DO every day.....and is significantly limiting his minutes.
But.....your solution is he should play more.
I'll defer to coach.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 29, 2025, 04:07:31 PMBut I'm pretty sure giving DO "more opportunities" so he "figures it out" is pretty much playing through it.
But I didn't write "so he figures it out." You took two separate sentences and combined them into one, then replaced the word "if" with the word "so" to change the meaning of what I wrote.
Pretty sneaky, sis.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 04:11:54 PMShaka has played DO 3 minutes, 9 minutes, and 0 minutes the last three games. He has not improved, he is lost. Lost on offense and defense. Shaka has seen DO every day.....and is significantly limiting his minutes.
But.....your solution is he should play more.
I'll defer to coach.
So, you agree that prior to the Dayton game, DO deserved 10 mpg?
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 04:17:05 PMSo, you agree that prior to the Dayton game, DO deserved 10 mpg?
I think coach was clearing the bench and allowing everyone to play in early games......as games go on it is evident that DO's minutes are decreasing.....even though you don't think they should.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 04:15:33 PMBut I didn't write "so he figures it out." You took two separate sentences and combined them into one, then replaced the word "if" with the word "so" to change the meaning of what I wrote.
Pretty sneaky, sis.
Uh no. I did not misquote you. You clearly are advocating for more playing time to see what he has. That's clearly playing through whatever obstacles are in his way now.
Claiming you didn't mean what you clearly said is pretty sneaky.
You are a piece of work.
Shaka.....I am playing DO less minutes.
Pakuni.....DO SHOULD PLAY MORE!
cool.......but Shaka is the coach and hes playing less, not more cuz some guy on the internet just thinks he should. Odd.
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 04:11:54 PMShaka has played DO 3 minutes, 9 minutes, and 0 minutes the last three games. He has not improved, he is lost. Lost on offense and defense. Shaka has seen DO every day.....and is significantly limiting his minutes.
But.....your solution is he should play more.
I'll defer to coach.
Now do the same analysis for CH!
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 29, 2025, 04:35:15 PMNow do the same analysis for CH!
Ur the math guy. Quantify ch egb's/40
There are weaknesses throughout this team....including CH. Shaka doesn't trust Josh to supplant his minutes.....yet.
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 03:53:22 PMSomething is definitely up with DO. He should be playing much more but isn't.
How about perhaps he just is not that good.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2025, 04:48:04 PMHow about perhaps he just is not that good.
Have you watched Caedin Hamilton
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 04:31:40 PMYou are a piece of work.
Shaka.....I am playing DO less minutes.
Pakuni.....DO SHOULD PLAY MORE!
cool.......but Shaka is the coach and hes playing less, not more cuz some guy on the internet just thinks he should. Odd.
We R Final Four ... no one should question any of Shaka's decisions. He's pressing all the right buttons right now.
Seems to be a common theme with this team.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2025, 05:08:33 PMWe R Final Four ... no one should question any of Shaka's decisions. He's pressing all the right buttons right now.
Certainly not the case......but wishing for a guy to be better than he is doesn't sound like a viable plan.
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 05:04:47 PMHave you watched Caedin Hamilton
I have watched enough hoops this weekend, to say MU's bigs might be the worst I have seen. Caedin really is the worst center maybe in MU history. I hope he can pull it together. Shaka really tries hard to sell us on his improvement. If he has improved he must have been really bad. Instead of 10,000 hook shots he worked on maybe a mid range jumper would have been better!
Quote from: BCHoopster on November 29, 2025, 05:42:02 PMI have watched enough hoops this weekend, to say MU's bigs might be the worst I have seen. Caedin really is the worst center maybe in MU history. I hope he can pull it together. Shaka really tries hard to sell us on his improvement. If he has improved he must have been really bad. Instead of 10,000 hook shots he worked on maybe a mid range jumper would have been better!
Idk if he's the worst big we've had but he's probably the worst starter MUs had in the last 20 plus years. Idk what Shaka was thinking. I don't think he'd play more than garbage time mins on any other big east team but here he is starting for us. It's a joke
Quote from: We R Final Four on November 29, 2025, 05:13:07 PMCertainly not the case......but wishing for a guy to be better than he is doesn't sound like a viable plan.
Nobody said this.
Quote from: BCHoopster on November 29, 2025, 05:42:02 PMI have watched enough hoops this weekend, to say MU's bigs might be the worst I have seen. Caedin really is the worst center maybe in MU history. I hope he can pull it together. Shaka really tries hard to sell us on his improvement. If he has improved he must have been really bad. Instead of 10,000 hook shots he worked on maybe a mid range jumper would have been better!
Lloyd Moore
Roman Muller
Rod Grosse
Greg "Biggie" Clausen
Jon Mueller
Chris Grimm
Mike Kinsella
Yous Mbao
I'm sure I missed a couple guys. Stop with the hyperbole.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 29, 2025, 06:02:00 PMLloyd Moore
Roman Muller
Rod Grosse
Greg "Biggie" Clausen
Jon Mueller
Chris Grimm
Mike Kinsella
Yous Mbao
I'm sure I missed a couple guys. Stop with the hyperbole.
Richard Shaw, Jarred Lovette, Brett Roseboro, Liam McNeely
Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on November 29, 2025, 06:10:06 PMRichard Shaw, Jarred Lovette, Brett Roseboro, Liam McNeely
I thought Lovette was ok.
Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on November 29, 2025, 06:10:06 PMRichard Shaw, Jarred Lovette, Brett Roseboro, Liam McNeely
I figured somebody would analysis the center position, there has been bad ones for sure, Caedin belongs in that group!
Caedin belongs nowhere near that group. And I agree he's been bad.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 29, 2025, 04:48:04 PMHow about perhaps he just is not that good.
Golds getting 35 minutes all the time :(
Quote from: Viper on November 29, 2025, 09:31:38 AMAt this point I'd reduce Gold (12 minutes per) and park Hamilton. Go with Ross, James, Lowery, Steven's, Phillips, Clark for Hamilton, Parham, Jones & Norman are tbd's based on starter fatigue, game flow and foul trouble. Basically, Gold's minutes are cut, Hamilton and Owens on the pine. From where MU currently sits, it can't get much worse. Looking ahead, we'll beat Valpo. Wisconsin is a loss, but RED isn't to be feared. Purdue will be an asss kick. Painter will call off the dogs up 30 having eclipsed 100.
That's why you're a poster on a message board that anyone can join and not a college basketball coach.
Apologies, this isn't personal, it's like 75% of the board at this point.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 04, 2025, 12:53:21 PMThat's why you're a poster on a message board that anyone can join and not a college basketball coach.
Apologies, this isn't personal, it's like 75% of the board at this point.
You got that right. Although a few are calling for the guy who's averaging 8 boards to have PT reduced to 15 mins a game.
Yes....and there are some on here who believe certain bench players deserve more playing time........even though when they get a chance yo prove themselves.....Shaka yells at them for setting up on the wrong side of the court......right out of a timeout.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 04, 2025, 04:45:13 PMYes....and there are some on here who believe certain bench players deserve more playing time........even though when they get a chance yo prove themselves.....Shaka yells at them for setting up on the wrong side of the court......right out of a timeout.
#fakenews #lies
Shaka didn't yell at your guy for setting up on the left side of the court....when he Shaka directed him to go to the right side??
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 04, 2025, 05:26:11 PMShaka didn't yell at your guy for setting up on the left side of the court....when he Shaka directed him to go to the right side??
I didn't write that he "deserves more playing time."
But you can't help yourself.
Still think he should be getting more opportunities?
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 04, 2025, 05:37:50 PMStill think he should be getting more opportunities?
Yeah, of course. The Valpo game only further confirmed my belief that winning important games isn't in the cards this season and the remaining schedule should be about building and developing the roster for next year and beyond. That includes deciding who should and shouldn't be part of the team next year and beyond.
Unlike some players who haven't been glued to the bench, I still think DO has a shot at being a Big East-caliber player. Doesn't mean he will be - he may very well continue to stink - but there's a plausible scenario in which it happens.
If you could convince me that burying DO on the bench significantly improves this team's chances of knocking off Bucky or Purdue, or making a run in the Big East, then by all means, bury him. But I don't believe that's true. That being the case, I'd give him more run. It's not going to make a difference in this year's outcome anyhow.
If he remains bad, he remains bad. It's not like Zaide or Phillips are out there killing it.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 04, 2025, 08:33:52 PMYeah, of course. The Valpo game only further confirmed my belief that winning important games isn't in the cards this season and the remaining schedule should be about building and developing the roster for next year and beyond. That includes deciding who should and shouldn't be part of the team next year and beyond.
Unlike some players who haven't been glued to the bench, I still think DO has a shot at being a Big East-caliber player. Doesn't mean he will be - he may very well continue to stink - but there's a plausible scenario in which it happens.
If you could convince me that burying DO on the bench significantly improves this team's chances of knocking off Bucky or Purdue, or making a run in the Big East, then by all means, bury him. But I don't believe that's true. That being the case, I'd give him more run. It's not going to make a difference in this year's outcome anyhow.
If he remains bad, he remains bad. It's not like Zaide or Phillips are out there killing it.
I mean DO's been out there and has largely looked bad. Why should he get any more minutes than he has?
Quote from: The Sultan on December 04, 2025, 08:41:03 PMI mean DO's been out there and has largely looked bad. Why should he get any more minutes than he has?
Several players have been out there and largely looked bad. If Shaka didn't play all the players who've largely looked bad, he'd struggle to field a team. Shaka continues to start multiple players who've largely looked bad. Including the guy who starts ahead of Owens (and no, I'm not suggesting DO starts).
I don't think anyone disagrees that DO's play has been really poor this year. IMO, he showed enough flashes last year that I wouldn't give up on him now that the season is for all intents over anyhow. Playing him 10 minutes a night isn't going to damage this team's tournament chances.
I'm team DO.
I don't understand what's going on. gotta be more to it. Play him 12+ mins a night or fight.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 04, 2025, 09:23:00 PMI'm team DO.
I don't understand what's going on. gotta be more to it. Play him 12+ mins a night or fight.
Mostly everyone on this team stinks. Some stinky players have much more upside than others. Owens is one of them. Would love to see him work through whatever is going on to play more mins
I have no idea regarding DO. It's not debatable that he's looked atrocious. But he also seems to have a quick hook. If he can't guard at all I'm not sure how Shaka can play him extended stretches. Maybe you rol the dice, start him Saturday, and park Hamilton? It could light a 🔥 up his buttocks? I dunno.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 04, 2025, 09:37:08 PMI have no idea regarding DO. It's not debatable that he's looked atrocious. But he also seems to have a quick hook. If he can't guard at all I'm not sure how Shaka can play him extended stretches. Maybe you rol the dice, start him Saturday, and park Hamilton? It could light a 🔥 up his buttocks? I dunno.
I listened to the radio show tonight and don't think that will happen. Shaka was raving about Hamilton. Also said he had a long talk with Zaide today.
Quote from: panda on December 04, 2025, 09:30:21 PMMostly everyone on this team stinks. Some stinky players have much more upside than others. Owens is one of them. Would love to see him work through whatever is going on to play more mins
Agree, Doc.
DO wants to score, so when he sees the ball in his hands he goes for it no matter the cost. Trouble is, he is very careless with the ball and frequently turns it over. In addition, he seems lost (as does most of the team) on defensive rotations. Hard to keep a guy in who turns the ball over and is a bit of a liability on defense. He has incredible potential, but I'd love to see him play for more than two possessions without turning it over. Owens seemed much more in control last year. Frankly, a lot of that was probably the senior leadership, of which we don't really have any. I love Chase but he strikes me as a quiet leader when this team needs a vocal one.
Quote from: panda on December 04, 2025, 09:30:21 PMMostly everyone on this team stinks. Some stinky players have much more upside than others. Owens is one of them. Would love to see him work through whatever is going on to play more mins
Shaka first needs to teach him to box out. His technique of shoving someone with two hands in the chest at the three point line doesn't work well and will draw a whistle. 😂
Quote from: panda on December 04, 2025, 09:30:21 PMMostly everyone on this team stinks. Some stinky players have much more upside than others. Owens is one of them. Would love to see him work through whatever is going on to play more mins
Does Owens have more upside? Of the wings / guards, how do we know he has a bigger upside than Phillips or Stevens? He is athletic no doubt, has been pretty bad.
Quote from: The Sultan on December 05, 2025, 08:14:04 AMDoes Owens have more upside? Of the wings / guards, how do we know he has a bigger upside than Phillips or Stevens? He is athletic no doubt, has been pretty bad.
I feel like there's more going on with Damarius, but I will say this -- of the various guys on the bench, he is the one who is a natural higher-usage guy, something we lack much of. Phillips is going to shoot when he has his clear opportunities - that's fine, but he's not going to get a ton of looks. Stevens is in a real nice spot for now -- in a year or two, I think he can be a mid-range usage or even medium high, but he'd be pushing it / playing out of his comfort zone to do so now.
Owens, I think it's him. Now, what all is going on.. and would he play poorly throughout 12-14 minutes or run per game? I don't know, but I'd be testing it more than we have seen thus far.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 05, 2025, 07:18:22 AMShaka first needs to teach him to box out. His technique of shoving someone with two hands in the chest at the three point line doesn't work well and will draw a whistle. 😂
Well, this kind of begs the question as to what happened this offseason that saw DO and other players plateau (at best) and/or regress. What returnee looks better than they did a year ago? Maybe Chase, but you could chalk that up to opportunity. Everyone else has either flatlined or gotten worse.
This time last year, DO was playing 26 minutes and putting up 11 points on the road against a top 10 team. He played 12 minutes against Wisconsin. How did he go from that guy to what we're seeing today in 12 months?
Parham - worse
Lowery - worse
Hamilton - who knows
Gold - same
Tre- same
Jones - same
Yeah I think it is fair to say that player development has not gone swimmingly.
RsGV.5
Relationships. (stunted) Growth. Victory, about half the time.
Jay Bee,
Do you think this based solely on length and athleticism? Or have you seen something else that makes you curious to see more.
Other than the Iowa state game last year where he hit a couple threes, I haven't seen much. His shot spin is sideways. He lacks strength. He can't dribble without losing the ball. He gets lost in the lane. He doesn't use his athleticism to dunk in traffic. And he's a baby giraffe on roller skates on defense.
Is it his high school stats or video that you are basing this optimism off of? Please understand, I want you to be right. We need a 6'7" ultra athletic wing on this team. But I'm not seeing it yet.
Quote from: The Sultan on December 05, 2025, 08:14:04 AMDoes Owens have more upside? Of the wings / guards, how do we know he has a bigger upside than Phillips or Stevens? He is athletic no doubt, has been pretty bad.
The flashes Owens showed his freshman year when healthy leads me to believe he is a high ceiling player. Quick and strong first step. Good finisher at the rim and great handle. Looked comfortable running the offense etc. Haven't seen any of that this year in his very limited minutes. I agree w JB that something is up.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 05, 2025, 08:29:50 AMJay Bee,
Do you think this based solely on length and athleticism? Or have you seen something else that makes you curious to see more.
Other than the Iowa state game last year where he hit a couple threes, I haven't seen much. His shot spin is sideways. He lacks strength. He can't dribble without losing the ball. He gets lost in the lane. He doesn't use his athleticism to dunk in traffic. And he's a baby giraffe on roller skates on defense.
Is it his high school stats or video that you are basing this optimism off of? Please understand, I want you to be right. We need a 6'7" ultra athletic wing on this team. But I'm not seeing it yet.
How he moves (or CAN move), his skills, largely based on play in EYBL. He's got the tools. Has a look of a guy who you'd never think has a chance of playing in the NBA but eventually does. I'm not saying I project that for him, but he does - for me - have that look.. he's got it in him... I don't know why it's not coming out yet.
Back when I use to travel a lot to watch travel bball, including EYBL, I was getting pretty good at utilizing the eye test + heavy statistical analysis to project guys... maybe things have gotten different now in recent years, as there are certainly some oddities (including for example, Tre). #pray
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 05, 2025, 08:26:42 AMRsGV.5
Victory, about half the time.
Until you run out of cupcakes.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 05, 2025, 08:18:17 AMI feel like there's more going on with Damarius, but I will say this -- of the various guys on the bench, he is the one who is a natural higher-usage guy, something we lack much of.
Owens, I think it's him. Now, what all is going on.. and would he play poorly throughout 12-14 minutes or run per game? I don't know, but I'd be testing it more than we have seen thus far.
JB, I'm with you on DO. Of all the frustrating disappointments this year I think he's the hardest to figure out. He is the guy that I thought would step up, but watching him this season has been painful.
I'm assuming that Shaka wants to win as many games as he can. Despite DO's potential, can Shaka tolerate his poor play on an ongoing basis? As much as I'd like to see DO do well, I don't think the coach is going to give him increased minutes purely on potential. I
think he's going to have to prove himself in the minutes he gets to get more run. Here's hoping.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 05, 2025, 08:50:51 AMDespite DO's potential, can Shaka tolerate his poor play on an ongoing basis? As much as I'd like to see DO do well, I don't think the coach is going to give him increased minutes purely on potential. I
think he's going to have to prove himself in the minutes he gets to get more run. Here's hoping.
Well, that doesn't seem to be the requirement for all players, so maybe he eventually gives DO a little more run.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 05, 2025, 08:21:04 AMWell, this kind of begs the question as to what happened this offseason that saw DO and other players plateau (at best) and/or regress. What returnee looks better than they did a year ago? Maybe Chase, but you could chalk that up to opportunity. Everyone else has either flatlined or gotten worse.
This time last year, DO was playing 26 minutes and putting up 11 points on the road against a top 10 team. He played 12 minutes against Wisconsin. How did he go from that guy to what we're seeing today in 12 months?
Parham - worse
Lowery - worse Slight improvement aside from Valpo
Hamilton - who knows Nowhere to go but up
Gold - same
Tre- same much better
Jones - same looks the same, but may need more run for a true evaluation
I'm a little higher on a couple of guys development, but it certainly isn't enough.
Tre is much better. His PER is double his career, and his eFG is above 54.3% which puts him second on the team (not counting Braeden Brenn's outrageous 1.00 eFG) behind Chase's 56.9%.
One could argue that out of anyone on the team, Tre deserves more run than he is getting.
Sorry Tre-tors!
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 05, 2025, 08:36:27 AMHow he moves (or CAN move), his skills, largely based on play in EYBL. He's got the tools. Has a look of a guy who you'd never think has a chance of playing in the NBA but eventually does. I'm not saying I project that for him, but he does - for me - have that look.. he's got it in him... I don't know why it's not coming out yet.
Back when I use to travel a lot to watch travel bball, including EYBL, I was getting pretty good at utilizing the eye test + heavy statistical analysis to project guys... maybe things have gotten different now in recent years, as there are certainly some oddities (including for example, Tre). #pray
Thanks for the reply Jay Bee. You have been right on your scouts of these players in the past and I hope you are right again.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 05, 2025, 09:06:59 AMI'm a little higher on a couple of guys development, but it certainly isn't enough.
Tre is much better. His PER is double his career, and his eFG is above 54.3% which puts him second on the team (not counting Braeden Brenn's outrageous 1.00 eFG) behind Chase's 56.9%.
One could argue that out of anyone on the team, Tre deserves more run than he is getting.
Sorry Tre-tors!
I can along with Tre, but the minutes have been so limited and sheltered, it's kind of hard to make much of the improvement.
As for Zaide, his numbers are down pretty much across the board from last year.
FG% = .471 to .375
3pt% = .375 to .316
eFG% = .575 to .450
PER = 13.5 to 12.8
TS% = .584 to .478
TRB% = 11.1 to 7.4
AST% = 2.4 to 15.8
TOV% = 8.4 to 10.6
WS/40 = .130 to .112
BPM = 4.6 to 0.8
Yeah, that's why I wanted to eliminate that Valpo game. :D
When Shaka and Chase are yelling and directing him where to go on offense and Tre and others are correcting his defense..........
How does one explain this?
Same system you played in last year. It's a mystery, but he hasn't proven anything this year that warrants additional PT.
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 04, 2025, 10:03:15 PMI listened to the radio show tonight and don't think that will happen. Shaka was raving about Hamilton. Also said he had a long talk with Zaide today.
What was he saying regarding Hamilton?
I don't want to pile on the kid but there's a definite disconnect between what we're seeing as well as the analytics vs. what Shaka is seeing.
Aside from his size, I don't see how his play is any more deserving of minutes than what we're seeing with Owens.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 05, 2025, 10:31:21 AMWhat was he saying regarding Hamilton?
I don't want to pile on the kid but there's a definite disconnect between what we're seeing as well as the analytics vs. what Shaka is seeing.
Aside from his size, I don't see how his play is any more deserving of minutes than what we're seeing with Owens.
Necessity. Someone has to play. I also think a lot of people forget how not great Oso was until his Junior year.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 05, 2025, 10:31:21 AMWhat was he saying regarding Hamilton?
I don't want to pile on the kid but there's a definite disconnect between what we're seeing as well as the analytics vs. what Shaka is seeing.
Aside from his size, I don't see how his play is any more deserving of minutes than what we're seeing with Owens.
"He's our energy guy, rebounder." Mentioned his 10 rebounds against Valpo. Said he "makes the other guys around them feel good about themselves." Compared him to Oso in that regard. These comments were scattered throughout the interview, but main takeaway is it sure didn't sound like the plan would be to reduce his role at all.
Edit: will add that the show is not really an environment where Shaka would say anything but positive things, so maybe not worth reading much into.
The glue guy. Keeping relationships strong by making them feel good while losing
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 05, 2025, 10:52:52 AMNecessity. Someone has to play. I also think a lot of people forget how not great Oso was until his Junior year.
Second-year Oso was significantly better than third-year Caedin across all categories other than rebounding, while playing similar minutes (18.2 to 19.4).
And Oso was adjusting to a new coach/system while Caedin's been in this one for 2+ seasons.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 05, 2025, 12:08:41 PMSecond-year Oso was significantly better than third-year Caedin across all categories other than rebounding, while playing similar minutes (18.2 to 19.4).
And Oso was adjusting to a new coach/system while Caedin's been in this one for 2+ seasons.
It's probably unfair to comp him to the unicorn that was Oso. Better comps would be to past project big men. It's not his fault he's starting.
I realize this is his third year with the program but I consider this to be Caedin's second season.
Ousmane Barro Stats Per 40 MinutesFreshman Year: 8.0 pts, 9.0 rbs
Sophomore Year: 12.9 pts, 8.4 rbs
Dwight Burke Stats Per 40 MinutesFreshman Year: 6.1 pts, 5.7 rbs
Sophomore Year: 3.7 pts, 8.2 rbs
Caedin Hamilton Stats Per 40 MinutesFreshman Year: 9.6 pts, 7.8 rbs
Sophomore Year (
to date): 10.5 pts, 9.4 rbs
Oso Ighodaro Stats Per 40 MinutesFreshman Year: 6.3 pts, 6.3 rbs
Sophomore Year: 12.2 pts, 7.3 rbs
what he said
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 05, 2025, 01:11:25 PMOusmane Barro Stats Per 40 Minutes
Freshman Year: 8.0 pts, 9.0 rbs
Sophomore Year: 12.9 pts, 8.4 rbs
Dwight Burke Stats Per 40 Minutes
Freshman Year: 6.1 pts, 5.7 rbs
Sophomore Year: 3.7 pts, 8.2 rbs
Caedin Hamilton Stats Per 40 Minutes
Freshman Year: 9.6 pts, 7.8 rbs
Sophomore Year (to date): 10.5 pts, 9.4 rbs
Oso Ighodaro Stats Per 40 Minutes
Freshman Year: 6.3 pts, 6.3 rbs
Sophomore Year: 12.2 pts, 7.3 rbs
Ous:
Fr: 80.7 ORtg, 17.2% usage
So: 108.4, 17.0%
Burke:
Fr: 67.0 ORtg, 11.1% usage
So: 111.9, 12.1%
Caedin (with 5 of the 9 games for So year against cupcakes):
Fr: 94.3 ORtg, 19.7% usage
So: 94.9, 16.7%
Oso:
Fr: 104.6 ORtg, 9.9% usage (barely any PT)
So: 124.4, 13.5%
What is going going on with Jones? He was supposed be our explosive leader? When will he play?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 05, 2025, 03:11:37 PMWhat is going going on with Jones? He was supposed be our explosive leader? When will he play?
He exploded. It was disgusting. Blood everywhere.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 05, 2025, 03:11:37 PMWhat is going going on with Jones? He was supposed be our explosive leader? When will he play?
Portal. Starting for Ohio St. tomorrow.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 05, 2025, 01:21:28 PMOus:
Fr: 80.7 ORtg, 17.2% usage
So: 108.4, 17.0%
Burke:
Fr: 67.0 ORtg, 11.1% usage
So: 111.9, 12.1%
Caedin (with 5 of the 9 games for So year against cupcakes):
Fr: 94.3 ORtg, 19.7% usage
So: 94.9, 16.7%
Oso:
Fr: 104.6 ORtg, 9.9% usage (barely any PT)
So: 124.4, 13.5%
Thanks for this. Adds to the whole picture.
I was going to ask for more basic and advanced stats as well