Nm
Frustrate me
Blow leads ...
See: MD, DAYTON and today
Certainly not end of game situational basketball.
Gets ice cold.
They rebound better than in past years, but they gave up a lot of second chances in the second half today. The defense is really bad. The only alphas on O are Ross and James. Everyone else plays weak on O.
Miss 3s.
We were outscored 31-12 once we took a 13 pt lead. We got it back to have a chance to win, but that's where the game was lost.
They like each other. The fact you're so focused on basketball is annoying, we're building relationships here.
Lose of course
theyre good at acronyms
I'm guessing they are great at relationships and some type of growth. Definitely not victories.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 03:17:42 PMThey like each other. The fact you're so focused on basketball is annoying, we're building relationships here.
In past years, prior to the game staring, the announcers would always discuss MU's type of play, deflections and other issues. Past two games, they discuss the non portal strategy and philosophy of Shaka. Fanta/Bahe brought it up even during the game. Brain Anderson last two prior games discussed it and again used the "culture" wording throughout.
So, it has come down to this, not talking about actual on the court play, but philosophy of a coach. Is that what MU is now noted for?
Not time out out of bound plays.
Suck!
Dribbling aimlessly on the perimeter.
Missing layups.
Blowing leads.
Quote from: nyg on November 28, 2025, 03:24:31 PMIn past years, prior to the game staring, the announcers would always discuss MU's type of play, deflections and other issues. Past two games, they discuss the non portal strategy and philosophy of Shaka. Fanta/Bahe brought it up even during the game. Brain Anderson last two prior games discussed it and again used the "culture" wording throughout.
So, it has come down to this, not talking about actual on the court play, but philosophy of a coach. Is that what MU is now noted for?
Yeah, it's bad. RGV had a chance to be a really cool thing, but sadly it didn't work out. I'm choosing to have faith in Shaka that he realizes this and will change course. If he triples down on it (he's already doubled down on it), then we need to get him out of here asap.
Not all up in arms about this loss. I'll never be happy when MU loses, but it's best long term if this season just leaves zero doubt that the current strategy doesn't work.
Make the fanbase sound like my five 5 year old and younger nieces and nephews at 8 PM after all of their energy has run out.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 03:47:12 PMMake the fanbase sound like my five 5 year old and younger nieces and nephews at 8 PM after all of their energy has run out.
Honestly don't get it wades. I understand there have been a handful of ceaselessly negative posters around here, but they're far from the majority.
Most have valid frustrations and concerns with what's going on with this team and, more importantly, the process that got us here. If you disagree, cool. Tell us why. Explain how these performances are nothing to worry about and how the criticism is wrong.
But you should be better than personally attacking anyone who dares criticize Shaka or his strategy as a whiner, child, etc.
Piss us all off.
All levity aside, is this team top 30 in any noteworthy stat? I can't think of anything this team does better than any average D 1 team
Quote from: Johnny B on November 28, 2025, 04:23:47 PMAll levity aside, is this team top 30 in any noteworthy stat? I can't think of anything this team does better than any average D 1 team
Relationships
We're like #220-250 team right now.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 28, 2025, 04:50:32 PMWe're like #220-250 team right now.
Our best win so far, per Torvik, is #215. Yikes.
Southern (215th)
Central Michigan (261st)
Albany (330rd)
Little Rock (333rd)
Quote from: Pakuni on November 28, 2025, 04:08:08 PMHonestly don't get it wades. I understand there have been a handful of ceaselessly negative posters around here, but they're far from the majority.
Most have valid frustrations and concerns with what's going on with this team and, more importantly, the process that got us here. If you disagree, cool. Tell us why. Explain how these performances are nothing to worry about and how the criticism is wrong.
But you should be better than personally attacking anyone who dares criticize Shaka or his strategy as a whiner, child, etc.
Good luck getting anything here.
All wades wants to do is nitpick phrasing and play semantics as some sort of own. But a justification for why he thinks that way? Don't hold your breath.
Wow, what a flame out.
Do not blame the kids. It is the coaches plan, not theirs.
Quote from: nyg on November 28, 2025, 03:24:31 PMIn past years, prior to the game staring, the announcers would always discuss MU's type of play, deflections and other issues. Past two games, they discuss the non portal strategy and philosophy of Shaka. Fanta/Bahe brought it up even during the game. Brain Anderson last two prior games discussed it and again used the "culture" wording throughout.
So, it has come down to this, not talking about actual on the court play, but philosophy of a coach. Is that what MU is now noted for?
this is what makes all this so much worse. Marquette is clearly behind these narratives we get fed every pregame by the tv crew. We're constantly getting lectured about how this is the right thing to do.
To be clear, I'm 110% on board with shaka. Don't want him to go anywhere. I'm on board with whatever philosophy he wants in team building. I'm eternally grateful for the success he has brought to MU so far.
But this team, this year, stinks so far
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2025, 05:19:40 PMI'm on board with whatever philosophy he wants in team building.
This is just so so so foolish. How can so many on this board be so dense.
WHY? He is showing you year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2025, 05:19:40 PMTo be clear, I'm 110% on board with shaka. Don't want him to go anywhere. I'm on board with whatever philosophy he wants in team building. I'm eternally grateful for the success he has brought to MU so far.
But this team, this year, stinks so far
I say this with all due respect, but I don't understand this kind this kind of slavish devotion to Shaka or any other coach. Crean and Buzz did more for this program than Shaka (and I'd argue KO as well), and I don't remember anyone saying stuff like this about them.
Shaka has done great work at MU and his seat should be ice cold right now. But a Sweet 16 and conference title isn't a lifetime pass or guarantee of future employment. Shaka needs to earn his job every year like the rest of us. Bad seasons can happen to good coaches, and if that's all this is, fine. But if his philosophy in team building leads to more bad seasons, I'm most definitely not OK with that. None of us should be..
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 04:52:01 PMGood luck getting anything here.
All wades wants to do is nitpick phrasing and play semantics as some sort of own. But a justification for why he thinks that way? Don't hold your breath.
I've said it many times. Not sure what you expect him to do in the middle of the season. Unfortunately no trading in college basketball.
Well, actually I do know what you expect him to do. You expect him to play all the freshman and pull redshirts in a lost season so that you personally can decide whether those players are worth keeping around. Logical, to say the least.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 05:28:58 PMThis is just so so so foolish. How can so many on this board be so dense.
WHY? He is showing you year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.
Lol yes. The guy who took over a program with 0 Tourney wins in the previous decade and got a 9 seed, 2 seed, 2 seed, and 7 seed his first season has shown year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.
Has Shaka hit his ceiling as a coach?
Should we stop thinking he is the Wizard of Oz?
Is recruiting now a 24/7 365 days a year job and do we need to stop believing he can change every HSer he recruits into a top 25 team ranked caliber player?
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 28, 2025, 06:22:29 PMHas Shaka hit his ceiling as a coach?
Should we stop thinking he is the Wizard of Oz?
Is recruiting now a 24/7 365 days a year job and do we need to stop believing he can change every HSer he recruits into a top 25 team ranked caliber player?
He needs to up the talent level in the program, yes.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 06:31:14 PMHe needs to up the talent level in the program, yes.
Exactly. What we see on the floor is a flat out recruiting bust for the most part. Call it what it is. Too many players just not high major guys. No shooters other than Chase and Nigel. Going to be a long season.
can we bench caedin now
Quote from: jfp61 on November 28, 2025, 06:46:33 PMcan we bench caedin now
Is 0-4 on layups as a starting center really that bad?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 05:58:43 PMI've said it many times. Not sure what you expect him to do in the middle of the season. Unfortunately no trading in college basketball.
Well, actually I do know what you expect him to do. You expect him to play all the freshman and pull redshirts in a lost season so that you personally can decide whether those players are worth keeping around. Logical, to say the least.
And this is why people don't take you seriously on this board. Hyperbole this, semantics that, no actual discourse.
"He can't trade players! Unless I missed that lolol. Nothing he can do!" The crux of all of this is his roster construction is so terrible we WISH he could trade. His loyalty to bad players in lieu of proven transfers is why we're here. So yes, his years of bad decisions is enough for me to criticize him on his 2025-2026 results. His loyalty to Caedin Hamilton is legitimately losing us games RIGHT NOW. And if you argue we have no better options at C, refer up a couple sentences.
"You expect him to pull all the redshirts and play only freshmen 40 minutes so YOU can decide if they should play at Marquette. I take what you say literally and will not deduce your comment to a larger point. I am very intelligent!" It's been obvious this season is a lost cause for any tourney aspirations. So yes, I'd like to see Shaka develop his freshmen and sophomores so we're not left holding the bag with players like Ben Gold, Tre Norman, Sean Jones in their junior and senior years. Sure, I would have pulled Ian's redshirt to get him game action. I'm looking at Creighton and Hudson Greer went from a redshirt to being one of their better players. But you're clearly ok with this trajectory so nothing I say will dissuade you from it.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 06:01:37 PMLol yes. The guy who took over a program with 0 Tourney wins in the previous decade and got a 9 seed, 2 seed, 2 seed, and 7 seed his first season has shown year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.
You're proving my point without realizing it. Yes, Shaka is a great coach and I've said numerous times I want him to be at Marquette for a long time. The fact he's shown he's capable of that success is why it's so frustrating this is the result we're getting. Yep, he's had 9, 2, 2, and 7 seeds, and it's clear we are tending downward considerably. He took O-Max and Kolek and got a 2 seed. Had Kolek and got a 2 seed. Didn't do anything at all and we got a 7 seed and were on life support from January on. Didn't do anything at all and now we're one of the worst teams in the Big East and incapable of beating any high major teams, 2 at home and 2 in Chicago in front of lots of our fans. Yet you see that and again don't see the same issues. Which is beyond perplexing.
The very route he took (out of necessity) gave Marquette great success. And now he is actively refusing to go the same route that gave him said success and we are only getting worse. Riddle me that, semantics boy.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 06:54:25 PMYou're proving my point without realizing it. Yes, Shaka is a great coach and I've said numerous times I want him to be at Marquette for a long time. The fact he's shown he's capable of that success is why it's so frustrating this is the result we're getting. Yep, he's had 9, 2, 2, and 7 seeds, and it's clear we are tending downward considerably. He took O-Max and Kolek and got a 2 seed. Had Kolek and got a 2 seed. Didn't do anything at all and we got a 7 seed and were on life support from January on. Didn't do anything at all and now we're one of the worst teams in the Big East and incapable of beating any high major teams, 2 at home and 2 in Chicago in front of lots of our fans. Yet you see that and again don't see the same issues. Which is beyond perplexing.
The very route he took (out of necessity) gave Marquette great success. And now he is actively refusing to go the same route that gave him said success and we are only getting worse. Riddle me that, semantics boy.
Calm down, you might have a heart attack at a young age. Those are the worse, mostly fatal, R-E-L-A-X
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 06:31:14 PMHe needs to up the talent level in the program, yes.
So why then do you get all out of sorts when people are concerned that he apparently completely ignores one path in which he can do so?
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 28, 2025, 07:35:13 PMCalm down, you might have a heart attack at a young age. Those are the worse, mostly fatal, R-E-L-A-X
*can't dispute what's being said*
"Calm down"
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 03:47:12 PMMake the fanbase sound like my five 5 year old and younger nieces and nephews at 8 PM after all of their energy has run out.
suggestions on how to improve things?
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2025, 05:19:40 PMTo be clear, I'm 110% on board with shaka. Don't want him to go anywhere. I'm on board with whatever philosophy he wants in team building. I'm eternally grateful for the success he has brought to MU so far.
But this team, this year, stinks so far
you serious? You are on board with this garbage?
Quote from: dpucane on November 28, 2025, 05:05:50 PMthis is what makes all this so much worse. Marquette is clearly behind these narratives we get fed every pregame by the tv crew. We're constantly getting lectured about how this is the right thing to do.
The Spirit Shop has a ton of RGV branded shirts, hars, pint glasses, keychains, etc to unload. Need to keep the narrative going.
If we're under . 500 in February it will become the new "Buzz's Bunch."
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 06:54:25 PMYou're proving my point without realizing it. Yes, Shaka is a great coach and I've said numerous times I want him to be at Marquette for a long time. The fact he's shown he's capable of that success is why it's so frustrating this is the result we're getting. Yep, he's had 9, 2, 2, and 7 seeds, and it's clear we are tending downward considerably. He took O-Max and Kolek and got a 2 seed. Had Kolek and got a 2 seed. Didn't do anything at all and we got a 7 seed and were on life support from January on. Didn't do anything at all and now we're one of the worst teams in the Big East and incapable of beating any high major teams, 2 at home and 2 in Chicago in front of lots of our fans. Yet you see that and again don't see the same issues. Which is beyond perplexing.
The very route he took (out of necessity) gave Marquette great success. And now he is actively refusing to go the same route that gave him said success and we are only getting worse. Riddle me that, semantics boy.
100% agreed
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 06:48:18 PMAnd this is why people don't take you seriously on this board. Hyperbole this, semantics that, no actual discourse.
"He can't trade players! Unless I missed that lolol. Nothing he can do!" The crux of all of this is his roster construction is so terrible we WISH he could trade. His loyalty to bad players in lieu of proven transfers is why we're here. So yes, his years of bad decisions is enough for me to criticize him on his 2025-2026 results. His loyalty to Caedin Hamilton is legitimately losing us games RIGHT NOW. And if you argue we have no better options at C, refer up a couple sentences.
"You expect him to pull all the redshirts and play only freshmen 40 minutes so YOU can decide if they should play at Marquette. I take what you say literally and will not deduce your comment to a larger point. I am very intelligent!" It's been obvious this season is a lost cause for any tourney aspirations. So yes, I'd like to see Shaka develop his freshmen and sophomores so we're not left holding the bag with players like Ben Gold, Tre Norman, Sean Jones in their junior and senior years. Sure, I would have pulled Ian's redshirt to get him game action. I'm looking at Creighton and Hudson Greer went from a redshirt to being one of their better players. But you're clearly ok with this trajectory so nothing I say will dissuade you from it.
If you don't like what you post then don't post it. Or if you don't mean what you post, then post what you mean. I'll respond to what you say. Sorry if I read your posts...well, as they're posted.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 28, 2025, 07:45:14 PMSo why then do you get all out of sorts when people are concerned that he apparently completely ignores one path in which he can do so?
Because it's different to say "Shaka's refusal to use one of the most important avenues to building a roster" and another thing to say Shaka is showing "year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful" when his philosophy has brought the highest two single seeds MU has ever got in an NCAA Tournament and two other single digit seeds in his four seasons here. There's criticism and there's being a whiny baby. Even if the person claims his posts aren't literal once he sees how absurd they are.
Shaka has had nothing but success until this season while at MU. He will have to adjust, whether that's landing higher level high school players, recruiting the portal, or both. People are acting like there's no shot in hell he's going to do anything to try to improve the roster, he's just going to sit here and be too good for those adjustments. I personally think the guy's a good coach and a competitive guy who misread his roster this year. I think he'll make necessary adjustments. Other people think he only takes good players against his will and need to be forced to bring in players he doesn't want by his assistants.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 05:58:43 PMI've said it many times. Not sure what you expect him to do in the middle of the season. Unfortunately no trading in college basketball.
I don't expect him to do anything about it in the middle of the season.
I do expect him to use his 20+ years of coaching experience to adequately assess the weaknesses of his roster, and then use all the tools at his disposal to address them.
What we've seen the past couple of years is him either missing the flaws of his teams; seeing them and choosing not to address them in service to a principle; or seeing them but believing he's found a way overcome them through relationships and growth.
I tend to suspect it's a bit of all three.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:26:09 PMBecause it's different to say "Shaka's refusal to use one of the most important avenues to building a roster" and another thing to say Shaka is showing "year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful" when his philosophy has brought the highest two single seeds MU has ever got in an NCAA Tournament and two other single digit seeds in his four seasons here. There's criticism and there's being a whiny baby. Even if the person claims his posts aren't literal once he sees how absurd they are.
Shaka has had nothing but success until this season while at MU. He will have to adjust, whether that's landing higher level high school players, recruiting the portal, or both. People are acting like there's no shot in hell he's going to do anything to try to improve the roster, he's just going to sit here and be too good for those adjustments. I personally think the guy's a good coach and a competitive guy who misread his roster this year. I think he'll make necessary adjustments. Other people think he only takes good players against his will and need to be forced to bring in players he doesn't want by his assistants.
*pretty bad January through the close of
The season last year too
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 05:58:43 PMI've said it many times. Not sure what you expect him to do in the middle of the season. Unfortunately no trading in college basketball.
Well, actually I do know what you expect him to do. You expect him to play all the freshman and pull redshirts in a lost season so that you personally can decide whether those players are worth keeping around. Logical, to say the least.
Different lineups/rotations. More minutes to higher ceiling players.
It's not like the current Caedin Hamilton experiment is flourishing.
Quote from: panda on November 28, 2025, 10:30:35 PMDifferent lineups/rotations. More minutes to higher ceiling players.
It's not like the current Caedin Hamilton experiment is flourishing.
The problem is that nobody behind him is better or ready to contribute. He played 17 minutes today. Still more than he should, but that's where a talent upgrade on the roster is needed. The talent isn't on the roster.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:33:01 PMThe problem is that nobody behind him is better or ready to contribute. He played 17 minutes today. Still more than he should, but that's where a talent upgrade on the roster is needed. The talent isn't on the roster.
He's far and away the worst player on this roster. Any player stepping into those 17 minutes would both be a greater benefit in the present and future of Marquette basketball
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:19:37 PMIf you don't like what you post then don't post it. Or if you don't mean what you post, then post what you mean. I'll respond to what you say. Sorry if I read your posts...well, as they're posted.
"If you don't like what you post then don't post it". What are you even talking about? Surely this sounded smarter in your head than it reads here.
When I talk about freshmen getting more playing time, while yes I will literally actually watch them play, that doesn't mean *I* am deciding their future at Marquette. Rather, it gives the highly-compensated coaches a grasp on how good they are sooner than later. That's INFERRED. So then THEY can determine if the player can cut it at this level. How many times did Fanta and Bahe say "This Marquette team is old, but they're not experienced! They're 199th in experience!" today? Maybe 3 or 4 by my count. So maybe they align the two so we don't have old, inexperienced group that sucks at basketball.
This is no different than when you were told Sean Jones was gonna transfer but Shaka convinced him to stay. It was said "Sean was in the portal" - inferring to anyone with a clue that he was gonna leave. But because Rothstein and Goodman didn't actually tweet out the words that he literally entered the portal, you try and "GOTCHA" your way to a point.
Instead of justifying your opinions, you need these things explained to you like a toddler. Context clues are your friend.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 10:39:02 PM"If you don't like what you post then don't post it". What are you even talking about? Surely this sounded smarter in your head than it reads here.
When I talk about freshmen getting more playing time, while yes I will literally actually watch them play, that doesn't mean *I* am deciding their future at Marquette. Rather, it gives the highly-compensated coaches a grasp on how good they are sooner than later. That's INFERRED. So then THEY can determine if the player can cut it at this level. How many times did Fanta and Bahe say "This Marquette team is old, but they're not experienced! They're 199th in experience!" today? Maybe 3 or 4 by my count. So maybe they align the two so we don't have old, inexperienced group that sucks at basketball.
This is no different than when you were told Sean Jones was gonna transfer but Shaka convinced him to stay. It was said "Sean was in the portal" - inferring to anyone with a clue that he was gonna leave. But because Rothstein and Goodman didn't actually tweet out the words that he literally entered the portal, you try and "GOTCHA" your way to a point.
Instead of justifying your opinions, you need these things explained to you like a toddler. Context clues are your friend.
If a kid isn't in the portal, don't post that a kid is in the portal. It's simple.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:33:01 PMThe problem is that nobody behind him is better or ready to contribute. He played 17 minutes today. Still more than he should, but that's where a talent upgrade on the roster is needed. The talent isn't on the roster.
Hahahaha unreal. I jokingly said you'd use this as an excuse...not thinking you'd actually use this as an excuse. Watch the rakes, wades!
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 10:44:12 PMHahahaha unreal. I jokingly said you'd use this as an excuse...not thinking you'd actually use this as an excuse. Watch the rakes, wades!
I forgot that because Creighton pulled a redshirt on a top 50 recruit it means that Militic is Dirk if we just pull the redshirt.
Aren't you the champion of Shaka's strategy sucks and we have no talent? I mean, year after year it's proven to be unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful, no? Now your contention is that we do have the talent to win big, Shaka's just giving the minutes to the wrong guy? Weird flip, but I suppose.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:26:09 PMBecause it's different to say "Shaka's refusal to use one of the most important avenues to building a roster" and another thing to say Shaka is showing "year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful" when his philosophy has brought the highest two single seeds MU has ever got in an NCAA Tournament and two other single digit seeds in his four seasons here. There's criticism and there's being a whiny baby. Even if the person claims his posts aren't literal once he sees how absurd they are.
How many times do you need this spelled out for you, man? He accomplished these feats IN LARGE PART DUE TO TAKING TRANSFERS. He earned those seeds by doing what he now refuses to do - and because he's shown continual refusal to use the portal, that's what I'm judging him on. The further away he gets from Kolek and relying only on his own high school recruits, the worse his results are.
Shaka gets paid a crap ton of money. Me criticizing the job he's doing isn't me being a baby, it's me holding the coach of my alma mater to the standard that position warrants.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:46:31 PMI forgot that because Creighton pulled a redshirt on a top 50 recruit it means that Militic is Dirk if we just pull the redshirt.
Aren't you the champion of Shaka's strategy sucks and we have no talent? I mean, year after year it's proven to be unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful, no? Now your contention is that we do have the talent to win big, Shaka's just giving the minutes to the wrong guy? Weird flip, but I suppose.
Where did I say Miletic is Dirk? You get off on actual quotes, go ahead and find me that one, be consistent.
Where did I say we have the talent to win big? For someone obsessed with literal comments, you're certainly putting a lot of words in my mouth.
Here are my actual words: with no tournament stakes to play for this season, see what you have in your younger players. A little foresight could do Shaka some good, in my opinion.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 10:51:07 PMHow many times do you need this spelled out for you, man? He accomplished these feats IN LARGE PART DUE TO TAKING TRANSFERS. He earned those seeds by doing what he now refuses to do - and because he's shown continual refusal to use the portal, that's what I'm judging him on. The further away he gets from Kolek and relying only on his own high school recruits, the worse his results are.
Shaka gets paid a crap ton of money. Me criticizing the job he's doing isn't me being a baby, it's me holding the coach of my alma mater to the standard that position warrants.
No, you've definitely been a baby lately.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 10:56:01 PMWhere did I say Miletic is Dirk? You get off on actual quotes, go ahead and find me that one, be consistent.
Where did I say we have the talent to win big? For someone obsessed with literal comments, you're certainly putting a lot of words in my mouth.
Here are my actual words: with no tournament stakes to play for this season, see what you have in your younger players. A little foresight could do Shaka some good, in my opinion.
Maybe read the post I was quoting then. I have no idea what excuse you're referring to. You don't want Ben Gold or Caedin Hamilton playing. So that leaves Royce Parham, Joshua Clark, and Ian Militic to play 80 minutes per game at the 4/5.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:58:18 PMNo, you've definitely been a baby lately.
I really haven't. But yes, I've had to talk down and explain a number of things to you so I understand why you'd say this. It's not your fault...it's not your fault.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 11:07:20 PMMaybe read the post I was quoting then. I have no idea what excuse you're referring to. You don't want Ben Gold or Caedin Hamilton playing. So that leaves Royce Parham, Joshua Clark, and Ian Militic to play 80 minutes per game at the 4/5.
Again, quit putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I don't want Ben Gold or Caedin Hamilton playing any minutes at all? I'm saying they are not good basketball players and shouldn't be starting at Marquette. We have no other options, which for the umpteenth time is my entire unnatural carnal knowledgeing point.
Thank you though. While I don't yet have children, having to "But why? But why? But why?" my way through this conversation with you, I feel like I'm prepared for parenthood.
To try to answer the question, we get to the line more than any other Shaka team at MU. And we've been a legitimately good (not great) offensive rebounding team. And the defensive rebounding is the best it's been under Shaka. If the numbers hold it'd be our best rebounding team since 2014 and our best FTR team since 2016.
Unfortunately we're turning it over more and our eFG% is way down.
Quote from: panda on November 28, 2025, 10:38:50 PMHe's far and away the worst player on this roster. Any player stepping into those 17 minutes would both be a greater benefit in the present and future of Marquette basketball
He's better than Clark right now. Clark's ceiling looks much higher. He's been better than Owens this year too. Same thing about the ceiling though.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:26:09 PMBecause it's different to say "Shaka's refusal to use one of the most important avenues to building a roster" and another thing to say Shaka is showing "year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful" when his philosophy has brought the highest two single seeds MU has ever got in an NCAA Tournament and two other single digit seeds in his four seasons here. There's criticism and there's being a whiny baby. Even if the person claims his posts aren't literal once he sees how absurd they are.
Shaka has had nothing but success until this season while at MU. He will have to adjust, whether that's landing higher level high school players, recruiting the portal, or both. People are acting like there's no shot in hell he's going to do anything to try to improve the roster, he's just going to sit here and be too good for those adjustments. I personally think the guy's a good coach and a competitive guy who misread his roster this year. I think he'll make necessary adjustments. Other people think he only takes good players against his will and need to be forced to bring in players he doesn't want by his assistants.
I guess if you want people making good faith arguments, calling them "whiney babies" isn't exactly leading by example though.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 11:11:12 PMAgain, quit putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I don't want Ben Gold or Caedin Hamilton playing any minutes at all? I'm saying they are not good basketball players and shouldn't be starting at Marquette. We have no other options, which for the umpteenth time is my entire unnatural carnal knowledgeing point.
Thank you though. While I don't yet have children, having to "But why? But why? But why?" my way through this conversation with you, I feel like I'm prepared for parenthood.
Huh.
Get shots blocked, 8.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 28, 2025, 04:50:32 PMWe're like #220-250 team right now.
This is so overdramatic. We're generally drilling teams in that range and losing close to top-100 type teams. We're right around a top-100 team ourself. Not NCAA or NIT worthy, but good enough to be feisty on a given night.
As far as what we do well, we're pretty good at offensive rebounding and turning teams over defensively. The problem is we are really bad at turning those offensive rebounds into second chance points and our overall defensive efficiency is worse when we press, which mitigates the value of those positives.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2025, 08:53:17 AMThis is so overdramatic. We're generally drilling teams in that range and losing close to top-100 type teams. We're right around a top-100 team ourself. Not NCAA or NIT worthy, but good enough to be feisty on a given night.
As far as what we do well, we're pretty good at offensive rebounding and turning teams over defensively. The problem is we are really bad at turning those offensive rebounds into second chance points and our overall defensive efficiency is worse when we press, which mitigates the value of those positives.
The eye test says team rebounding is definitely improved and maybe the best it's been under Shaka? His really good 2nd and 3rd seasons, those were not good rebounding teams IIRC.
Doing press defense more than just picking your spots is not going to work against good teams. The 40 Minutes of Hell Nolan Richardson Razorbacks is ancient history how to attack. So not surprising their defensive efficiency decreases doing that. And that's against a schedule half made up of opponents somewhere in the 200's.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 10:26:09 PMBecause it's different to say "Shaka's refusal to use one of the most important avenues to building a roster" and another thing to say Shaka is showing "year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful" when his philosophy has brought the highest two single seeds MU has ever got in an NCAA Tournament and two other single digit seeds in his four seasons here. There's criticism and there's being a whiny baby. Even if the person claims his posts aren't literal once he sees how absurd they are.
Shaka has had nothing but success until this season while at MU. He will have to adjust, whether that's landing higher level high school players, recruiting the portal, or both. People are acting like there's no shot in hell he's going to do anything to try to improve the roster, he's just going to sit here and be too good for those adjustments. I personally think the guy's a good coach and a competitive guy who misread his roster this year. I think he'll make necessary adjustments. Other people think he only takes good players against his will and need to be forced to bring in players he doesn't want by his assistants.
Perfect summation of the reality, Wades. Shaka has said this year would "stress test," the RGV model. So far it's showing to not be working out too well. However, it does seem he's landing higher rated recruits, and it is mentioned by all of them how the RGV philosophy is attractive.
I suspect we may need to suck it up for another year to see how things evolve. Though it wouldn't surprise me to see a transfer out this off season, and I would think Shaka would give serious thought to trying to backfill that opening with a proven D-1 player from the portal.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 09:09:45 AMPerfect summation of the reality, Wades. Shaka has said this year would "stress test," the RGV model. So far it's showing to not be working out too well. However, it does seem he's landing higher rated recruits, and it is mentioned by all of them how the RGV philosophy is attractive.
I suspect we may need to suck it up for another year to see how things evolve. Though it wouldn't surprise me to see a transfer out this off season, and I would think Shaka would give serious thought to trying to backfill that opening with a proven D-1 player from the portal.
One freshman big coming onto this roster isn't going to drastically change our talent level next year when all of our competitors are adding proven 20-23 year old talents from the portal.
Broken system and we're in a really bad spot roster wise for next year.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 28, 2025, 04:51:33 PMOur best win so far, per Torvik, is #215. Yikes.
Southern (215th)
Central Michigan (261st)
Albany (330rd)
Little Rock (333rd)
What if we did not have home court advantage when we played these teams?
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 09:20:01 AMOne freshman big coming onto this roster isn't going to drastically change our talent level next year when all of our competitors are adding proven 20-23 year old talents from the portal.
Broken system and we're in a really bad spot roster wise for next year.
As I said, next year may also be a potentially down year. However, it would not surprise me if we have a transfer out this off season, and Shaka backfills it with a proven player (i.e. a 20-23 talent from the portal), to help bolster things.
Where I get frustrated with the Shaka criticism is it is the first time in his 5 years we are underperforming expectations - and many Scoopers have said they do like the model of getting to know players, see players evolve, and that MU not be a school of 1-year rentals that have zero love for the university. Progress isn't always linear, and in my view, Shaka has earned some grace for what has been done Years 1-4 coming off of a decade of mediocre (at best) performance.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 09:31:14 AMAs I said, next year may also be a potentially down year. However, it would not surprise me if we have a transfer out this off season, and Shaka backfills it with a proven player (i.e. a 20-23 talent from the portal), to help bolster things.
Where I get frustrated with the Shaka criticism is it is the first time in his 5 years we are underperforming expectations - and many Scoopers have said they do like the model of getting to know players, see players evolve, and that MU not be a school of 1-year rentals that have zero love for the university. Progress isn't always linear, and in my view, Shaka has earned some grace for what has been done Years 1-4 coming off of a decade of mediocre (at best) performance.
Last year was bad too
We've beaten one top 30 torvik rated team since last January. Since February last year, we've beaten one top 100 torvik team Gtown.
The signs of a poor roster existed last season.
I do believe we will have a year of excellent discussions on Scoop.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 09:31:14 AMAs I said, next year may also be a potentially down year. However, it would not surprise me if we have a transfer out this off season, and Shaka backfills it with a proven player (i.e. a 20-23 talent from the portal), to help bolster things.
Where I get frustrated with the Shaka criticism is it is the first time in his 5 years we are underperforming expectations - and many Scoopers have said they do like the model of getting to know players, see players evolve, and that MU not be a school of 1-year rentals that have zero love for the university. Progress isn't always linear, and in my view, Shaka has earned some grace for what has been done Years 1-4 coming off of a decade of mediocre (at best) performance.
I don't necessarily disagree with the second paragraph, but they most certainly underperformed last season considering how it started. And I think what's also concerning is there doesn't seem to be much light at the end of the tunnel.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 09:09:45 AMPerfect summation of the reality, Wades. Shaka has said this year would "stress test," the RGV model. So far it's showing to not be working out too well. However, it does seem he's landing higher rated recruits, and it is mentioned by all of them how the RGV philosophy is attractive.
I suspect we may need to suck it up for another year to see how things evolve. Though it wouldn't surprise me to see a transfer out this off season, and I would think Shaka would give serious thought to trying to backfill that opening with a proven D-1 player from the portal.
SAome people are already tired of "sucking it up"
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 09:33:26 AMLast year was bad too
We've beaten one top 30 torvik rated team since last January. Since February last year, we've beaten one top 100 torvik team Gtown.
The signs of a poor roster existed last season.
All signs of a low major
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 09:33:26 AMLast year was bad too
We've beaten one top 30 torvik rated team since last January. Since February last year, we've beaten one top 100 torvik team Gtown.
The signs of a poor roster existed last season.
What would your reaction be if this year's team is the inverse of last seasons? If we beat some top 100 Torvik teams and a Top 30 team or two from here on out, do signs of a good roster begin to emerge?
I still think this year's team can finish in the Top 4 of the Big East - a down year in the BE, to be fair.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 10:05:49 AMWhat would your reaction be if this year's team is the inverse of last seasons? If we beat some top 100 Torvik teams and a Top 30 team or two from here on out, do signs of a good roster begin to emerge?
Yes. I just doubt it's going to happen.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 10:05:49 AMWhat would your reaction be if this year's team is the inverse of last seasons? If we beat some top 100 Torvik teams and a Top 30 team or two from here on out, do signs of a good roster begin to emerge?
I still think this year's team can finish in the Top 4 of the Big East - a down year in the BE, to be fair.
Of course I'd be excited. This team gives me absolutely no reason to believe anything will change which is frustrating.
Glad we don't have Milwaukee on the sked
As someone who was skeptical of Shaka's strategy but open-minded to it working, I'm growing increasingly annoyed by two arguments against those of us who are frustrated and calling for a change in approach.
The first is the strawman "well, guess you want them to go out and get a whole roster of new players every year who don't care at all about MU!" No one is asking for this. There is plenty of gray space between the two extremes. What I'm asking for is a coaching staff that can identify clear deficiencies in the roster in the offseason and address them with a couple of additions if necessary. One of the more troubling aspects of this season has been how most fans could have identified they biggest problem areas before they ever took the court.
Look at Kolek as an example. Sure, he was a transfer, but no one would say he was some money-hungry mercenary looking for the highest bidder. Shaka, go find guys looking for a bigger opportunity that align with your culture.
The second point is the idea that this has worked for years, we've gotten spoiled and are now out the second there is trouble. To me, it feels like we are attributing too much of the success to the process and not enough to the players. Retention is great if the players you retain are special. Shaka truly hit with one group (two of which were transfers) with results slowly getting worse as that group has moved on to the next stage of their lives. One does not make a pattern. This year was the proving ground, and it is resulting in perhaps the worst season in 15 years.
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 11:11:12 PMAgain, quit putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I don't want Ben Gold or Caedin Hamilton playing any minutes at all? I'm saying they are not good basketball players and shouldn't be starting at Marquette. We have no other options, which for the umpteenth time is my entire unnatural carnal knowledgeing point.
Thank you though. While I don't yet have children, having to "But why? But why? But why?" my way through this conversation with you, I feel like I'm prepared for parenthood.
awesome!
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 10:05:49 AMWhat would your reaction be if this year's team is the inverse of last seasons? If we beat some top 100 Torvik teams and a Top 30 team or two from here on out, do signs of a good roster begin to emerge?
I still think this year's team can finish in the Top 4 of the Big East - a down year in the BE, to be fair.
talk about all-time silly. WTH man. Wake up to what's in front of your eyes.
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 29, 2025, 09:41:14 AMI do believe we will have a year of excellent discussions on Scoop.
im pretty sure even all of Scoop will agree, and that ain't easy to accomplish!
Quote from: KingKolek on November 29, 2025, 11:40:57 AMAs someone who was skeptical of Shaka's strategy but open-minded to it working, I'm growing increasingly annoyed by two arguments against those of us who are frustrated and calling for a change in approach.
The first is the strawman "well, guess you want them to go out and get a whole roster of new players every year who don't care at all about MU!" No one is asking for this. There is plenty of gray space between the two extremes. What I'm asking for is a coaching staff that can identify clear deficiencies in the roster in the offseason and address them with a couple of additions if necessary. One of the more troubling aspects of this season has been how most fans could have identified they biggest problem areas before they ever took the court.
Look at Kolek as an example. Sure, he was a transfer, but no one would say he was some money-hungry mercenary looking for the highest bidder. Shaka, go find guys looking for a bigger opportunity that align with your culture.
The second point is the idea that this has worked for years, we've gotten spoiled and are now out the second there is trouble. To me, it feels like we are attributing too much of the success to the process and not enough to the players. Retention is great if the players you retain are special. Shaka truly hit with one group (two of which were transfers) with results slowly getting worse as that group has moved on to the next stage of their lives. One does not make a pattern. This year was the proving ground, and it is resulting in perhaps the worst season in 15 years.
Your first point is your own strawman, though. None of us would be opposed to that. Most of us would welcome it.
And re: your second point, I think we'd all agree that the recruiting needs to get better.
Quote from: Viper on November 29, 2025, 11:57:05 AMawesome!
When you have viper backing you, you know you lost lol.
Why is year 5 the proving ground? Four good to great years (when taking into context the decade prior to it, especially) and year five is bad so it's proof that Shaka ain't it.
Five years to judge is back and as strong as ever. But also, MU is not supposed to have down years and a 7-10 seed should be our low point, despite the history of our program doing nothing to show there's any truth to that whatsoever.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2025, 01:33:38 PMWhy is year 5 the proving ground? Four good to great years (when taking into context the decade prior to it, especially) and year five is bad so it's proof that Shaka ain't it.
Five years to judge is back and as strong as ever. But also, MU is not supposed to have down years and a 7-10 seed should be our low point, despite the history of our program doing nothing to show there's any truth to that whatsoever.
The fans didn't set the bar - Shaka did
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 01:35:39 PMThe fans didn't set the bar - Shaka did
Right. He's proven to be a very successful coach for a long time. He hasn't put a product on the court that is up to that standard. Maybe he just completely lost it at 48 years old. Or maybe he'll adjust.
Most think he's too stubborn and has too big of an ego for that. I guess we'll find out if they're right.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2025, 01:37:50 PMRight. He's proven to be a very successful coach for a long time. He hasn't put a product on the court that is up to that standard. Maybe he just completely lost it at 48 years old. Or maybe he'll adjust.
Most think he's too stubborn and has too big of an ego for that. I guess we'll find out if they're right.
Putting it differently - the fans are frustrated because we're going off the bat Shaka set in the last four season.
We're not going off of what Mike Deane and Kevin O'Neil did 73 years ago.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 29, 2025, 09:31:14 AMAs I said, next year may also be a potentially down year. However, it would not surprise me if we have a transfer out this off season, and Shaka backfills it with a proven player (i.e. a 20-23 talent from the portal), to help bolster things.
Where I get frustrated with the Shaka criticism is it is the first time in his 5 years we are underperforming expectations - and many Scoopers have said they do like the model of getting to know players, see players evolve, and that MU not be a school of 1-year rentals that have zero love for the university. Progress isn't always linear, and in my view, Shaka has earned some grace for what has been done Years 1-4 coming off of a decade of mediocre (at best) performance.
100% he deserves a grace period. I'm not so sure he didn't know this was going to happen. At Big East media day a reporter let him know that he picked MU in the top 25 and to paraphrase Shaka who had a shocked look on his face 'I hope you feel the same way in a few weeks'. I think he knew that this was going to be tough sledding this year but wasn't willing to throw away his model of RGV for one lean year.
I agree with him with regard to not throwing away the model but also agree use of the portal will happen naturally especially after a lean year because a couple players will leave on their own.
I've said it before. But I've shifted focus on this season to watching the development of our players. If they develop, and MU is competitive against the upper tier teams in the Big East despite likely losses (and maybe picking off a few wins) I'm ok with it as long as the arrow is pointing upward for next year.
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 01:44:49 PMPutting it differently - the fans are frustrated because we're going off the bat Shaka set in the last four season.
We're not going off of what Mike Deane and Kevin O'Neil did 73 years ago.
I don't disagree. This level, if sustained, is unacceptable. But it's the complete removal from reality surrounding down years that I have an issue with. There are SEVEN teams in the country that have a longer current NCAA streak than MU.
Michigan State - 27
Gonzaga - 26
Purdue - 10
Houston - 7
Tennessee - 7
Kansas - 6
Baylor - 6
That's the entire list.
This season has sucked. No denying that. If it becomes a trend then yes, we have a problem. But it hasn't been a trend yet. And acting like this is automatically our new reality going forward is just borrowing angst from the future, and it's exhausting to read.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:26:18 PMI don't disagree. This level, if sustained, is unacceptable. But it's the complete removal from reality surrounding down years that I have an issue with. There are SEVEN teams in the country that have a longer current NCAA streak than MU.
Michigan State - 27
Gonzaga - 26
Purdue - 10
Houston - 7
Tennessee - 7
Kansas - 6
Baylor - 6
That's the entire list.
This season has sucked. No denying that. If it becomes a trend then yes, we have a problem. But it hasn't been a trend yet. And acting like this is automatically our new reality going forward is just borrowing angst from the future, and it's exhausting to read.
What will change next year? We have more or less the same roster with no spots open?
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 02:32:49 PMWhat will change next year? We have more or less the same roster with no spots open?
How did we improve from 2021 to 2022? We lost Morsell, Kuath, and Justin Lewis. Tyler Kolek was a barely average sophomore and O Max was infuriating. No way we could have improved in 2022 with only freshman Chase Ross as a new contributor.
It happens all the time. Let it play out.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:38:09 PMHow did we improve from 2021 to 2022? We lost Morsell, Kuath, and Justin Lewis. Tyler Kolek was a barely average sophomore and O Max was infuriating. No way we could have improved in 2022 with only freshman Chase Ross as a new contributor.
It happens all the time. Let it play out.
This team is alarmingly bad. Without Ross, we would have multiple losses to cupcakes. Much different than shaka's first team/second team.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2025, 01:37:50 PMRight. He's proven to be a very successful coach for a long time. He hasn't put a product on the court that is up to that standard. Maybe he just completely lost it at 48 years old. Or maybe he'll adjust.
Most think he's too stubborn and has too big of an ego for that. I guess we'll find out if they're right.
The problem is when everyone defending him, like yourself, point out back to back 2 seeds they're talking about a program built differently than the one he's built now.
His first round draft pick was a transfer. His All American PG was a transfer. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go portaling every year, but you don't get to brag about how he's doing it the right way when this is his first year actually doing that (you can call last year that too, but they fell apart last year). The results are terrible thus far.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 29, 2025, 02:43:06 PMThe problem is when everyone defending him, like yourself, point out back to back 2 seeds they're talking about a program built differently than the one he's built now.
His first round draft pick was a transfer. His All American PG was a transfer. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go portaling every year, but you don't get to brag about how he's doing it the right way when this is his first year actually doing that (you can call last year that too, but they fell apart last year). The results are terrible thus far.
Shaka's done it a lot of ways in his coaching career. It's why I think he'll adjust and continue to be a high level coach.
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 02:40:56 PMThis team is alarmingly bad. Without Ross, we would have multiple losses to cupcakes. Much different than shaka's first team/second team.
I don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2025, 02:48:19 PMShaka's done it a lot of ways in his coaching career. It's why I think he'll adjust and continue to be a high level coach.
I certainly hope so. Going into this season with Caedin Hamilton as the starting center has got me having doubts.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:49:26 PMI don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.
Really going out on a limb saying it can't get any worse than this year!
There is no reason a Marquette team in the 5th year of a coaches successful tenure should be this horrible. So many mistakes had to happen to reach this point and much of it is highly concerning for the future if no philosophical changes are made.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 29, 2025, 02:43:06 PMThe problem is when everyone defending him, like yourself, point out back to back 2 seeds they're talking about a program built differently than the one he's built now.
His first round draft pick was a transfer. His All American PG was a transfer. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go portaling every year, but you don't get to brag about how he's doing it the right way when this is his first year actually doing that (you can call last year that too, but they fell apart last year). The results are terrible thus far.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves in this debate. Who cares they they were transfers? Those transfers played like normal college freshmen and sophomores their first year. Nobody projected them to improve like they did. Some wanted them to transfer out.
It doesn't matter if he takes transfers. It matters that his talent identification improves. This year's freshman class looks a lot better than the last two. That needs to continue. If it does, we'll be fine. If it doesn't, then I'll have concerns about Shaka. But it has nothing to do with if he's willing to take a transfer or two.
Quote from: panda on November 29, 2025, 02:51:55 PMReally going out on a limb saying it can't get any worse than this year!
Very clear you're not interested in an actual discussion. Peace.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:53:22 PMVery clear you're not interested in an actual discussion. Peace.
See my edit
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:52:16 PMThis is one of my biggest pet peeves in this debate. Who cares they they were transfers? Those transfers played like normal college freshmen and sophomores their first year. Nobody projected them to improve like they did. Some wanted them to transfer out.
It doesn't matter if he takes transfers. It matters that his talent identification improves. This year's freshman class looks a lot better than the last two. That needs to continue. If it does, we'll be fine. If it doesn't, then I'll have concerns about Shaka. But it has nothing to do with if he's willing to take a transfer or two.
I agree with what you're saying about transfers. It's about talent identification.
But so much of the identity has been about no transfers, and well, the biggest success has been with transfers.
But we gotta stop looking into guys who we're in recruiting battles with prep schools for. That's bad.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 02:49:26 PMI don't agree, but even if I did it has nothing to do what I said. I'm not saying we're going to compete for the Big East next year. We're not. But I don't think it's hard to see how this team improves a lot next year either.
It's very hard to see
Quote from: BM1090 on November 29, 2025, 12:32:17 PMYour first point is your own strawman, though. None of us would be opposed to that. Most of us would welcome it.
And re: your second point, I think we'd all agree that the recruiting needs to get better.
I've heard Shaka himself get dismissive and act like we want him to go completely the other way, as well as from at least some avid supporters. I agree though, most thoughtful fans see the middle ground.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 29, 2025, 02:50:22 PMI certainly hope so. Going into this season with Caedin Hamilton as the starting center has got me having doubts.
Going into yesterday's game with him still as the starting center has got me having even stronger doubts.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 29, 2025, 03:04:40 PMGoing into yesterday's game with him still as the starting center has got me having even stronger doubts.
He's averaging almost 20 mins/game! I wonder what blackmail he has on Shaka
Quote from: onepost on November 28, 2025, 03:17:42 PMThey like each other. The fact you're so focused on basketball is annoying, we're building relationships here.
Fans no matter we are building relationships here
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 29, 2025, 02:55:59 PMI agree with what you're saying about transfers. It's about talent identification.
But so much of the identity has been about no transfers, and well, the biggest success has been with transfers.
But we gotta stop looking into guys who we're in recruiting battles with prep schools for. That's bad.
I'd venture to guess that Shaka believed Hamilton, Zaide, Tre, Royce, and Ben would be way better at this point in the season. I certainly thought Zaide and Royce would be. The said truth is they haven't at all and some have actually looked worse. The biggest whiff imo is not having anyone who can consistently make plays off the bounce. Kam developed that part of his game and Tyler was a maestro. We don't have a player on our roster that makes it easier for others to get quality looks. As for the defensive end? I think our interior players really struggle. I'll just leave it at that.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 28, 2025, 06:01:37 PMLol yes. The guy who took over a program with 0 Tourney wins in the previous decade and got a 9 seed, 2 seed, 2 seed, and 7 seed his first season has shown year after year that his philosophy is unnatural carnal knowledgeing awful.
I've said it before, so I sound like a broken record, but those teams were carried by transfers and Wojo recruits, so not indicative of his philosophy, and we have steadily declined as those Wojo recruits and transfer graduated. This is the first fully RGV team.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 01, 2025, 03:13:00 PMI've said it before, so I sound like a broken record, but those teams were carried by transfers and Wojo recruits, so not indicative of his philosophy, and we have steadily declined as those Wojo recruits and transfer graduated. This is the first fully RGV team.
Why does Shaka get no credit for the transfers? He recruited Morsell, OMax, TKO, Kuath, Joplin, Ross, James, Stevens etc. Who cares if they came as transfers or out of high school? Let's be honest, MU started playing poorly last year when the Wojo recruits, Kam and Stevie (two guys Wojo never coached), were still on the roster and should have been leading. Wojo recruited some good players. Shaka has recruited some good players. They both recruited some players they shouldn't have. This year's team has too many players that don't fit the system Shaka uses or who aren't talented enough. Wojo didn't recruit players good enough to overcome his limitations as a coach.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on December 01, 2025, 04:21:34 PMWhy does Shaka get no credit for the transfers? He recruited Morsell, OMax, TKO, Kuath, Joplin, Ross, James, Stevens etc. Who cares if they came as transfers or out of high school? Let's be honest, MU started playing poorly last year when the Wojo recruits, Kam and Stevie (two guys Wojo never coached), were still on the roster and should have been leading. Wojo recruited some good players. Shaka has recruited some good players. They both recruited some players they shouldn't have. This year's team has too many players that don't fit the system Shaka uses or who aren't talented enough. Wojo didn't recruit players good enough to overcome his limitations as a coach.
If you're going to blame last year on Kam and Stevie, I don't even know what to say. We probably win single digit games without those two. Two of the winningest players in program history.
Bump
Freshman looked decent
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2025, 03:15:18 PMFreshman looked decent
I'm old enough to remember when we said that about Parham.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2025, 03:15:18 PMBump
Freshman looked decent
Let James and Stevens continue to start and play a lot. They'll make mistakes, but love their aggression and confidence. Two guys to build back with.
Phillips has a nice shot and length, but he isn't ready for more than bit minutes.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 06, 2025, 03:18:47 PMI'm old enough to remember when we said that about Parham.
He'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times. But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length. Just needs to find consistency. Too early to give up on him.
The usual suspects on this board were hand-wringing over me calling Indiana a "meh" team. They got handled by Minnesota and are getting punked today by Louisville. Just to record keep.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2025, 03:15:18 PMBump
Freshman looked decent
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2025, 03:15:18 PMBump
Freshman looked decent
I wish this was just a case of KO year1. That class was balanced inside and out and featured a schedule that included games @Duke and @Kansas (correct me if I'm wrong on KU).
I do think it will get better from here.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2025, 03:22:39 PMHe'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times. But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length. Just needs to find consistency. Too early to give up on him.
I'm not giving up on him, or the Frosh, just pointing out that development isn't always linear.
I will have what you are smoking. Please pass the pipe.
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on December 06, 2025, 03:24:28 PMI wish this was just a case of KO year1. That class was balanced inside and out and featured a schedule that included games @Duke and @Kansas (correct me if I'm wrong on KU).
I do think it will get better from here.
That was KO year 2. They were kinda competitive at Duke. Kansas blasted us in Lawrence. I don't think Jimmy Mac played in either game. I know he didn't play against Duke.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2025, 03:22:39 PMHe'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times. But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length. Just needs to find consistency. Too early to give up on him.
He looked good today. Loved his drives. Gets that shot back on track and there is a lot to love.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on December 06, 2025, 03:27:45 PMHe looked good today. Loved his drives. Gets that shot back on track and there is a lot to love.
That's where he's really struggling, any consistency shooting. Only did it well first half against OU.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2025, 03:22:39 PMHe'll get it going. He's rushing his shot at times. But he needs to play through it. He has ability to score at all levels and has size and length. Just needs to find consistency. Too early to give up on him.
Parham's positives get negated by his insistence on taking three pointers. He's bad from deep. 0-5 today.
Quote from: onepost on December 06, 2025, 03:23:43 PMThe usual suspects on this board were hand-wringing over me calling Indiana a "meh" team. They got handled by Minnesota and are getting punked today by Louisville. Just to record keep.
Congratulations. Very relevant to this topic.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on December 06, 2025, 03:31:07 PMParham's positives get negated by his insistence on taking three pointers. He's bad from deep. 0-5 today.
Agree to disagree. Hes been a spot guy for most of his MU career. The drives were impressive. Shots will fall
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2025, 03:36:47 PMCongratulations. Very relevant to this topic.
Oh look who decided to pop his head in today! Ohh and wades, just to clarify, by referring to you as a "usual suspect" I am NOT saying you starred in the iconic 1995 crime thriller, ok? I know you tend to struggle grasping these things so just an FYI.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on December 06, 2025, 03:31:07 PMParham's positives get negated by his insistence on taking three pointers. He's bad from deep. 0-5 today.
I could end up wrong on him, but I think he has the mechanics and confidence to do it well. Although the evidence so far at MU is it's not his strength. Under 30% last year.
Quote from: onepost on December 06, 2025, 03:40:12 PMOh look who decided to pop his head in today! Ohh and wades, just to clarify, by referring to you as a "usual suspect" I am NOT saying you starred in the iconic 1995 crime thriller, ok? I know you tend to struggle grasping these things so just an FYI.
Boy you get unhinged lol. No idea what any of this means.
I haven't posted in gameday threads for years. Unhinged people like you tend to make them unbearable.
But congrats on your Indiana call!
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2025, 03:42:54 PMBoy you get unhinged lol. No idea what any of this means.
I haven't posted in gameday threads for years. Unhinged people like you tend to make them unbearable.
But congrats on your Indiana call!
Guy doesn't understand basic movie humor, that checks out. Look around, man, I've been right about much more than that. Maybe you should give it a listen sometime!
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2025, 03:42:19 PMI could end up wrong on him, but I think he has the mechanics and confidence to do it well. Although the evidence so far at MU is it's not his strength. Under 30% last year.
Right. I don't mind him taking 1-2 a game, but he shouldn't have the ultimate green light that he does from outside with those numbers.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on December 06, 2025, 03:48:19 PMRight. I don't mind him taking 1-2 a game, but he shouldn't have the ultimate green light that he does from outside with those numbers.
I agree.
Quote from: onepost on December 06, 2025, 03:46:24 PMGuy doesn't understand basic movie humor, that checks out. Look around, man, I've been right about much more than that. Maybe you should give it a listen sometime!
I understand the mo or reference. Your post is just more of your unhinged blabbering and not the humor you apparently think it is.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2025, 04:11:04 PMI understand the mo or reference. Your post is just more of your unhinged blabbering and not the humor you apparently think it is.
Where am I unhinged? I'm frustrated our basketball team has turned into a complete joke in record time, guilty.
You consistently struggle to make any coherent points to counter anything I say. So you do things like "Sean wasn't in the portal! I never saw that tweet!" or "Oh so YOU want to judge the freshmen? What are you, the GM? I'm very clever!" or "Wow you're on a message board vocalizing your frustration with how bad Marquette basketball is...uhhh UNHINGED MUCH?" It's sad. With the way you argue, I wouldn't be surprised to find out you were in high school and had finals coming up.
In that case, I'm sorry for picking on a preteen.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on December 06, 2025, 03:39:15 PMAgree to disagree. Hes been a spot guy for most of his MU career. The drives were impressive. Shots will fall
He needs to play down low. That is where he is most effective. There has never been a 3 point shot he did not like. That is not his game.
Quote from: onepost on December 06, 2025, 04:17:21 PMWhere am I unhinged? I'm frustrated our basketball team has turned into a complete joke in record time, guilty.
You consistently struggle to make any coherent points to counter anything I say. So you do things like "Sean wasn't in the portal! I never saw that tweet!" or "Oh so YOU want to judge the freshmen? What are you, the GM? I'm very clever!" or "Wow you're on a message board vocalizing your frustration with how bad Marquette basketball is...uhhh UNHINGED MUCH?" It's sad. With the way you argue, I wouldn't be surprised to find out you were in high school and had finals coming up.
In that case, I'm sorry for picking on a preteen.
Not unhinged at all. ;D
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2025, 05:36:34 PMNot unhinged at all. ;D
Talking down to you =/= unhinged. It just means you're having a very hard time understanding. Hope that helps.
Most encouraging play today was from Stevens. He showed he 1) has a set of balls and 2) appears to be a guy that not only plays hard defense but can become a decent three level scorer in the next couple of years. The only thing I feel encouraged by is a potential solid starting back court in the future.
It's a shame that Ross is the iso guy by default, because his skill set and play style don't work for it. He's not a good ball handler, doesn't create a shot very easily (or shoot well) and is one dimensional when he takes it to the hoop. Today was a prime example of how forced a lot of his looks were. Yes he's had some very solid games in the wins vs cupcakes (who is considered a cupcake nowadays?), but Chase thrived playing with Kolek and Kam because of his athleticism and ability to get in the passing lanes on D. Even when he's getting his share the offense still looks abysmal.
Front court has been discussed ad nauseam therefore I'll refrain from the usual Gold/Hamilton/Parham/Clark chatter. Only thing I'll say is I still feel less optimism about Parham than I did last year. I really thought he'd be the one to take the biggest step forward, and it seems he's regressed.
We do things well but one thing we do not do well in our 5 losses is defend the 3 point shot. Giving up an approximated average of about 42% on 3s in those games or an effective field goal percentage of 63%. It is difficult to win giving up EFG % of 63%
I can't get this game out of my head. Has there ever been a worse shooting team than this one? And at the same time, a terrible rebounding team? This team has gotten worse as the season progresses. The coaching is awful. Yet Shaka defends the team. Losing by 20 points to the weasels is a disgrace. Is there any hope?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 07, 2025, 07:16:32 AMI can't get this game out of my head. Has there ever been a worse shooting team than this one? And at the same time, a terrible rebounding team? This team has gotten worse as the season progresses. The coaching is awful. Yet Shaka defends the team. Losing by 20 points to the weasels is a disgrace. Is there any hope?
It's difficult to find any hope right now.
I'll take some of the blame for yesterday's loss. I am 0-4 in Madison, and none of the games have been particularly close.
I will echo the concern around the lack of development from upper class men. In a system that absolutely requires consistent improvement and development, because the team does not use the portal, the performance of the upper class men calls into question the current philosophy. There is not much there.