Yay!?
I'll just leave the rest blank for Ners to show us how we should be properly be appreciating this team / shaka.
nice
Shaka's team improvement is slower than Rocky's server
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 22, 2025, 03:21:38 PMslower than Rocky's server
Ok, ok, ok. I fixed it. I think...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 22, 2025, 03:28:14 PMOk, ok, ok. I fixed it. I think...
Muscoop living paycheck to paycheck
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 22, 2025, 03:32:11 PMMuscoop living paycheck to paycheck
Like Marquette's NIL budget.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 22, 2025, 03:18:29 PMYay!?
I'll just leave the rest blank for Ners to show us how we should be properly be appreciating this team / shaka.
Do you give enough to the athletic department to start a thread?
That was a painful watch. Waiting for that moment where things click for more than a few minutes and a time and it's just not happening.
A couple of nice moments for Clark - something to dream on as he gets older and stronger. Hopefully the hands improve but looks like he'll shoot about 30% from the line.
Some nice moments for Stevens, as well.
Chase still has some frustrating moments because there is so much on his shoulders but he has taken the leap.
Unfortunately, Parham, Owens, and Gold have not. Was also hoping for a bigger leap from Zaide but he's been relatively solid.
Every single time Marquette had a play or two to pull ahead, they would have a defensive matador moment, a turnover, poor shot selection, etc. They just can't string together positive possessions on either end.
CMU had multiple wide looks from 3 that they just didn't hit. If they had, it would have been a bad outcome.
Chase, Zaide, and Nigel shared the ball well, that was good to see.
I fully expected MU to win, but shocked that the "minimum chance" was 89.4%!
https://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=Central+MichiganMarquette11-22&year=2026
Relationships, ??? , victory
Quote from: Pakuni on November 22, 2025, 03:50:34 PMDo you give enough to the athletic department to start a thread?
Can't even budget for proper server, so no chance!
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 22, 2025, 04:22:10 PMCan't even budget for proper server, so no chance!
Just trying to show the team how to slow down and let the game (page?) come to them.
Chipp-y ki-yay, mother %&@<"÷=.
Server must have crashed for Scoop because of all the elated fans congratulating the team and Shaka for their get well game.
Need to ditch havoc. Gives way more than it takes. Start playing solid defense rather than chasing steals.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 22, 2025, 08:40:54 PMNeed to ditch havoc. Gives way more than it takes. Start playing solid defense rather than chasing steals.
Along with fast breaking with a no-man advantage. So many times we are getting a rebound and pushing into a defensive advantage. We need to take open shots and limit turnovers more than ever with this roster.
Does Shaka teach them on a break to never pass to a teammate who has an easier path to the basket?
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 22, 2025, 09:04:39 PMAlong with fast breaking with a no-man advantage. So many times we are getting a rebound and pushing into a defensive advantage. We need to take open shots and limit turnovers more than ever with this roster.
I would have loved to have been able to see the scoopers who were chomping at the bit to post here when the server went down- one machine gun style poster in particular. ;D Some of them probably had to change into clean underwear.
Maybe-just for laughs-Rocky will shut down the server during a game. Imagine the game-threaders flipping out. ;D What's not to like?
Quote from: Pakuni on November 22, 2025, 03:50:34 PMDo you give enough to the athletic department to start a thread?
My 140k tuition was enough.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 22, 2025, 08:40:54 PMNeed to ditch havoc. Gives way more than it takes. Start playing solid defense rather than chasing steals.
What do you want us to do about it?
You're not gonna change his mind, so why even bother suggesting it.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 22, 2025, 10:27:07 PMI would have loved to have been able to see the scoopers who were chomping at the bit to post here when the server went down- one machine gun style poster in particular. ;D Some of them probably had to change into clean underwear.
Maybe-just for laughs-Rocky will shut down the server during a game. Imagine the game-threaders flipping out. ;D What's not to like?
If he does shut it down during a game, he should do it when we are getting our ass kicked by a mediocre team so that all of us doomsayers will get even more pissed than the teams meltdown because we can't take our frustrations out on the board. That would be great during the holidays. Rocky,have at it. Suspect there will be plenty of opportunities.
With college BB now a pro, should the school be treating the team members like pros?
I think the athletes have long accepted it with no issues, why not the school?
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 23, 2025, 07:04:43 AMWith college BB now a pro, should the school be treating the team members like pros?
I think the athletes have long accepted it with no issues, why not the school?
Do you mean that the schools should actually employ the team members, allow them to unionize, and sign them to guaranteed contracts of various lengths?
Sure. But that's not what they want.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 22, 2025, 08:40:54 PMNeed to ditch havoc. Gives way more than it takes. Start playing solid defense rather than chasing steals.
Bingo!
Havoc works with an element of surprise.
However, with a plan just look for the open man, or two. Do the math, ditch the havoc defense.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 23, 2025, 05:42:46 AMIf he does shut it down during a game, he should do it when we are getting our ass kicked by a mediocre team so that all of us doomsayers will get even more pissed than the teams meltdown because we can't take our frustrations out on the board. That would be great during the holidays. Rocky,have at it. Suspect there will be plenty of opportunities.
You're perpetually pissed
all the time anyway, so whether the site is up or not-in your case-is totally irrelevant. :o ;D
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 23, 2025, 07:30:41 AMYou're perpetually pissed all the time anyway, so whether the site is up or not-in your case-is totally irrelevant. :o ;D
His wife has kept him down for so long that he's just turned bitter. Sitting in his basement, with his Warrior pennant and his cooler full of Busch Lite, he can't help get mad that players now have their names on their jerseys and "wierd" hairstyles.
Just finished watching. The final score didn't do justice to how close that was. Defense was abysmal. Didn't force turnovers, allowed too many second chances, open threes, and good lord the driving lanes were wide effing open.
On offense, Chase is embracing the Kam role. He was the difference between a win and am embarrassing loss. Just played sloppy. And how on earth are we seven games in and back to trying to figure out rotations? Just uninspiring all around.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 23, 2025, 07:12:22 AMDo you mean that the schools should actually employ the team members, allow them to unionize, and sign them to guaranteed contracts of various lengths?
Sure. But that's not what they want.
No, I was thinking more like Doctors, Dentists, Architects, Engineers. They are professionals.
I said this earlier, but CMU had a couple wide open threes, in the hands of their shooters, that if they would have hit could have changed this result. Thank goodness they missed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 23, 2025, 07:40:50 AMJust finished watching. The final score didn't do justice to how close that was. Defense was abysmal. Didn't force turnovers, allowed too many second chances, open threes, and good lord the driving lanes were wide effing open.
On offense, Chase is embracing the Kam role. He was the difference between a win and am embarrassing loss. Just played sloppy. And how on earth are we seven games in and back to trying to figure out rotations? Just uninspiring all around.
The bolded are the same words (except that I said embarrassing win) I used when my wife returned home from a day in Charlottesville and asked me how the game went.
The infamous 17 seconds capping a poorly played game almost extinguished all hopes I had that this team could turn things around. Yesterday's game finished me off. I am hoping to have to eat those words later in the season but seriously doubt that I will need to. :-[ :'(
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 23, 2025, 07:43:33 AMNo, I was thinking more like Doctors, Dentists, Architects, Engineers. They are professionals.
Not anymore
Here's an inspiring thought for those who like to support the underdog:
It's possible that every team remaining on the schedule (except Valpo) is better than MU.
So, let's go support the underdog!
We have now become the trap game.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 23, 2025, 07:44:54 AMI said this earlier, but CMU had a couple wide open threes, in the hands of their shooters, that if they would have hit could have changed this result. Thank goodness they missed.
Ok, and if Gold knocks down a few of the many open 3's he had, we win much more comfortably and put them away earlier. You can apply this argument to most basketball games at any level for the team that lost.
There were good moments yesterday. Much to clean up, like again playing way too fast on offense, leading to bad shots. That and overall, frustrating how many poor shooting games from 3 our guys have, and has become the norm under Shaka. Tough to win in this day when you're shooting in the 20's or low 30's from 3.
This board consensus was too high and overrated the team last season when there were obvious problems and we were just escaping with wins from December on. Now, it's barely three weeks into the season and a young team is trash and full of wasted scholarships.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 08:35:09 AMOk, and if Gold knocks down a few of the many open 3's he had, we win much more comfortably and put them away earlier. You can apply this argument to most basketball games at any level for the team that lost.
There were good moments yesterday. Much to clean up, like again playing way too fast on offense, leading to bad shots. That and overall, frustrating how many poor shooting games from 3 our guys have, and has become the norm under Shaka. Tough to win in this day when you're shooting in the 20's or low 30's from 3.
This board consensus was too high and overrated the team last season when there were obvious problems and we were just escaping with wins from December on. Now, it's barely three weeks into the season and a young team is trash and full of wasted scholarships.
I agree with your first two paragraphs.
But I think it's pretty plain to see that the sophomore and junior classes are a problem.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 23, 2025, 08:40:33 AMI agree with your first two paragraphs.
But I think it's pretty plain to see that the sophomore and junior classes are a problem.
That may well be the case. But I think it's reasonable to give them more than three weeks to get comfortable in their new roles and find themselves. There's a ton of season left.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 08:35:09 AMThis board consensus was too high and overrated the team last season when there were obvious problems and we were just escaping with wins from December on. Now, it's barely three weeks into the season and a young team is trash and full of wasted scholarships.
Except, it's not really a young team. This team has nine players averaging double-digit minutes. Three have been in the program for four years (albeit one spent much of a year injured). Three others have been in the program for three years. We're not running a bunch of freshmen out there. A majority of the lineup is upperclassmen.
I get that some of those older players don't have a ton of game experience, but isn't that kind of the point of RGV? Players spend a couple years growing in the program and then are ready to go as soon as their opportunity arrives? What's the use of RGV if third-year players still need to time to develop when they get their chance to play?
And no, given the importance of early season nonconference games, it's not reasonable to punt on the first month of the season while players adjust to new roles. The cycle of college basketball means players adjust to new roles every year.
The guy who deserves criticism is Gold. The only senior besides Ross and still a crap shooter even though supposedly was going to be a stretch 4 or 5. He rebounds pretty well and his defense is ok. That's about it. Very disappointing player on a team that badly needs much more production out of him.
And Owens is a big concern. He's shown nothing except being very capable of giving up the ball. Three straight without a point.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 08:45:03 AMThat may well be the case. But I think it's reasonable to give them more than three weeks to get comfortable in their new roles and find themselves. There's a ton of season left.
I mean, we have no choice but to do that.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 08:53:31 AMExcept, it's not really a young team. This team has nine players averaging double-digit minutes. Three have been in the program for four years (albeit one spent much of a year injured). Three others have been in the program for three years. We're not running a bunch of freshmen out there. A majority of the lineup is upperclassmen.
I get that some of those older players don't have a ton of game experience, but isn't that kind of the point of RGV? Players spend a couple years growing in the program and then are ready to go as soon as their opportunity arrives? What's the use of RGV if third-year players still need to time to develop when they get their chance to play?
And no, given the importance of early season nonconference games, it's not reasonable to punt on the first month of the season while players adjust to new roles. The cycle of college basketball means players adjust to new roles every year.
You just provided the major hole in it's not an inexperienced team argument.
And teams often get much better from November to March. What, you've never witnessed that in your life following major college ball? A first month of struggle and inexperienced mistakes is a new concept for you? If anything, Shaka and his staff are not helping this team by preaching to play fast on offense in the hopes of more possessions. I think Shaka's gets a poor grade how he's handled the team early season. The way he wants them to play is not where their confidence and comfort level is yet.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 08:55:38 AMThe guy who deserves criticism is Gold. The only senior besides Ross and still a crap shooter even though supposedly was going to be a stretch 4 or 5. He rebounds pretty well and his defense is ok. That's about it. Very disappointing player on a team that badly needs much more production out of him.
And Owens is a big concern. He's shown nothing except being very capable of giving up the ball. Three straight without a point.
Gold has improved his defense and rebounding. His shooting is what it is. Never that great and not getting any better. He is never turning into Steve Novak. The defense can sag off him because he is not much of a threat. Very disappointing. The team lacks a go to shooter. We better hope Chase stays healthy of it will be a train wreck.
Quote from: onepost on November 23, 2025, 12:05:11 AMWhat do you want us to do about it?
You're not gonna change his mind, so why even bother suggesting it.
I want him to play different types of defenses throughout games so that I can evaluate whether the team should be playing those or not. He owes it to me.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 23, 2025, 09:12:25 AMI want him to play different types of defenses throughout games so that I can evaluate whether the team should be playing those or not. He owes it to me.
KUDOS!
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 09:05:44 AMYou just provided the major hole in it's not an inexperienced team argument.
So, what's the point of bringing guys along slowly for 2+ years if they're going to play like freshmen as soon as they get their opportunity (and tank the first month of the season in the process)? I'd rather just play freshmen, then. At least they'll be ready to go by the time they're sophomores and juniors.
Again, one of the main supposed benefits of RGV is that players hit the ground running once their time arrives. Now you're telling us that a guy who's been around three years still needs a month-plus to adjust? What have these guys been doing for the past 2-3 years if it wasn't preparing for their time to play?
QuoteAnd teams often get much better from November to March.
The problem with this is twofold:
- most teams get much better from November to March. The Indiana team that thumped MU by 23? That's an entirely new roster with a new coach, and is only going to get better as the season progresses. Maryland is going to get healthier and more accustomed to what their new coach wants. Dayton has three new starters. They're likely to improve with more time together. Marquette isn't going to make a massive leap while 360 other teams are stuck in neutral.
- if you have any serious tournament aspirations, you can't throw away the first month of the season while your players adjust. These games are massive toward building a tournament resume. Last year's Marquette team might not have made the tournament without its wins in the first month of the season. And if they did, they'd have been sent to Dayton. Teams don't have the luxury of being bad during the nonconference schedule.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 22, 2025, 04:08:25 PMEvery single time Marquette had a play or two to pull ahead, they would have a defensive matador moment, a turnover, poor shot selection, etc. They just can't string together positive possessions on either end.
CMU had multiple wide looks from 3 that they just didn't hit. If they had, it would have been a bad outcome.
nothing makes me more confident about the direction the season is headed than being in a dog against a team whose roster is half D2 transfers.
Not sure I'm allowed to say anything positive about Marquette hoops, but I'll take the risk ...
Josh Clark had three or four legit plays yesterday, including one very impressive defensive stop at the end of the clock and a real nice putback dunk.
I have absolutely no problem with us having carried him on the roster last season, and with Shaka bringing him along slowly this season. If this 7-footer turns out to be a kid who can protect the rim and make dunks for a couple of years - kinda Kur Kuath like - that would be A-OK for me. If he turns out better, fantastic! If he doesn't, I still think the "risk" was worth it.
Now, if the argument is that Shaka has been working on too many projects like this, that's a whole different debate.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 09:26:59 AMSo, what's the point of bringing guys along slowly for 2+ years if they're going to play like freshmen as soon as they get their opportunity (and tank the first month of the season in the process)? I'd rather just play freshmen, then. At least they'll be ready to go by the time they're sophomores and juniors.
Again, one of the main supposed benefits of RGV is that players hit the ground running once their time arrives. Now you're telling us that a guy who's been around three years still needs a month-plus to adjust? What have these guys been doing for the past 2-3 years if it wasn't preparing for their time to play?
The problem with this is twofold:
- most teams get much better from November to March. The Indiana team that thumped MU by 23? That's an entirely new roster with a new coach, and is only going to get better as the season progresses. Maryland is going to get healthier and more accustomed to what their new coach wants. Dayton has three new starters. They're likely to improve with more time together. Marquette isn't going to make a massive leap while 360 other teams are stuck in neutral.
- if you have any serious tournament aspirations, you can't throw away the first month of the season while your players adjust. These games are massive toward building a tournament resume. Last year's Marquette team might not have made the tournament without its wins in the first month of the season. And if they did, they'd have been sent to Dayton. Teams don't have the luxury of being bad during the nonconference schedule.
If you're looking for someone to argue with and beat the drum that all RGV Is great, blindly trust Shaka and all, you've got the wrong guy. I'm merely stating the negativity is over the top right now, just like dreams we were a Final Four contender last year at this time were. There's things I like about our most of our players and I think there's skill and talent to work with and can improve. Shaka and his staff need to do much better their approach with it though right now.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 23, 2025, 08:35:09 AMOk, and if Gold knocks down a few of the many open 3's he had, we win much more comfortably and put them away earlier. You can apply this argument to most basketball games at any level for the team that lost.
There were good moments yesterday. Much to clean up, like again playing way too fast on offense, leading to bad shots. That and overall, frustrating how many poor shooting games from 3 our guys have, and has become the norm under Shaka. Tough to win in this day when you're shooting in the 20's or low 30's from 3.
This board consensus was too high and overrated the team last season when there were obvious problems and we were just escaping with wins from December on. Now, it's barely three weeks into the season and a young team is trash and full of wasted scholarships.
Wasted scholarships? All these student athletes are going to get an excellent education.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 11:39:45 AMNot sure I'm allowed to say anything positive about Marquette hoops, but I'll take the risk ...
Josh Clark had three or four legit plays yesterday, including one very impressive defensive stop at the end of the clock and a real nice putback dunk.
I have absolutely no problem with us having carried him on the roster last season, and with Shaka bringing him along slowly this season. If this 7-footer turns out to be a kid who can protect the rim and make dunks for a couple of years - kinda Kur Kuath like - that would be A-OK for me. If he turns out better, fantastic! If he doesn't, I still think the "risk" was worth it.
Now, if the argument is that Shaka has been working on too many projects like this, that's a whole different debate.
Kur is the exact same comparison me and my friends at the game said yesterday too. Not a star, but a mobile 7 footer who can give you 20 really good minutes as an upperclassmen.
One rotation item I thought was noteworthy yesterday... Michael Phillips played before Owens in both halves. I agree with it, but I thought it was interesting Shaka made that change already too.
He's still skinny and looks a little lost, but Phillips just shows more flashes right now. He's sometimes in the wrong spots, but he's flying around out there and making things happen. That offensive rebound and kickout to Nigel for a 3 was a bigger play than anything Owens has done this year.
Owens needs to be more physical. To me he is shying away from contact out there. The second he gets bumped on a drive he stops and gives up. Have to play through contact at this level. Phillips is throwing his body around in the paint to try and make plays, which is a great sign for the way he'll play in the future. Cant wait til he's 20lbs stronger still playing this way.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 11:39:45 AMJosh Clark had three or four legit plays yesterday, including one very impressive defensive stop at the end of the clock and a real nice putback dunk.
He played for only 8 minutes and had 3 boards and went 2/3 on shots. If I remember correctly, the missed shot would have been another "real nice dunk" had it gone in. What I really liked was his take-no-prisoners, in-your-face attitude. Too bad that he also "earned" 2 fouls.
I'm NOT saying he is ready for more minutes, but I got my wish that he would get a little PT, even though Rocky replied to my post that he wished there was a "thumbs down" option. :D
This team is 3 good minutes of basketball away from being 6-1.
And if it was 6-1, it would still have the same flaws and still be really young amd would probably still lose to Purdue and South Central WI State.
But would the sky be falling and folks here calling to hire Brian Wardle?
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 01:49:15 PMThis team is 3 good minutes of basketball away from being 6-1.
And if it was 6-1, it would still have the same flaws and still be really young amd would probably still lose to Purdue and South Central WI State.
But would the sky be falling and folks here calling to hire Brian Wardle?
Depends. How well does he use the portal?
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 01:49:15 PMThis team is 3 good minutes of basketball away from being 6-1.
And if it was 6-1, it would still have the same flaws and still be really young amd would probably still lose to Purdue and South Central WI State.
But would the sky be falling and folks here calling to hire Brian Wardle?
Your first sentence is EXTREMELY generous.
And no one is calling for Wardle.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 23, 2025, 01:58:35 PMYour first sentence is EXTREMELY generous.
And no one is calling for Wardle.
2 rotation players for Wardle are transfers. That seems like a good ratio to me. I'm interested.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 01:49:15 PMThis team is 3 good minutes of basketball away from being 6-1.
And if it was 6-1, it would still have the same flaws and still be really young amd would probably still lose to Purdue and South Central WI State.
But would the sky be falling and folks here calling to hire Brian Wardle?
I think Wardle is way down in pecking order now, but got to wait for Rico update.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 23, 2025, 03:20:13 PMI think Wardle is way down in pecking order now, but got to wait for Rico update.
I gave him a new name for consideration.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 23, 2025, 03:24:35 PMI gave him a new name for consideration.
Yes just saw, brilliant!
Quote from: The Sultan on November 23, 2025, 01:58:35 PMYour first sentence is EXTREMELY generous.
And no one is calling for Wardle.
17 seconds vs Dayton to score once and the rest vs MD to flip 8 points and a couple W's are on the board.
Then the board acknowledges the challenges this team has but in the vein of they are tough, scrappy, and lucky and will only get better.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 01:49:15 PMThis team is 3 good minutes of basketball away from being 6-1.
And if it was 6-1, it would still have the same flaws and still be really young amd would probably still lose to Purdue and South Central WI State.
But would the sky be falling and folks here calling to hire Brian Wardle?
The Wardle thing is just trolling.
MU would re-hire Rick Majerus before they'd hire Brian Wardle as head coach.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 04:09:09 PM17 seconds vs Dayton to score once and the rest vs MD to flip 8 points and a couple W's are on the board.
Then the board acknowledges the challenges this team has but in the vein of they are tough, scrappy, and lucky and will only get better.
Sure. And if only the Blue Jays could've retired Miguel Rojas, who hadn't homered off a right-handed pitcher since Jesus was a baby, they would've won the World Series. Hypotheticals are pointless.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 23, 2025, 04:09:09 PM17 seconds vs Dayton to score once and the rest vs MD to flip 8 points and a couple W's are on the board.
Then the board acknowledges the challenges this team has but in the vein of they are tough, scrappy, and lucky and will only get better.
Hang a banner.
Quote from: WarriorFan on November 23, 2025, 04:31:29 PMMU would re-hire Rick Majerus before they'd hire Brian Wardle as head coach.
I think Majerus and Joe Lieberman have both died, but I may be wrong.
Hologram Majerus. In IMAX.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 23, 2025, 01:35:00 PMHe played for only 8 minutes and had 3 boards and went 2/3 on shots. If I remember correctly, the missed shot would have been another "real nice dunk" had it gone in. What I really liked was his take-no-prisoners, in-your-face attitude. Too bad that he also "earned" 2 fouls.
I'm NOT saying he is ready for more minutes, but I got my wish that he would get a little PT, even though Rocky replied to my post that he wished there was a "thumbs down" option. :D
That's great, he can go to the MAC next year and dominate against more D2 transfers.
6 of the 9 players who logged minutes for CMU yesterday were playing D2 ball last season. Two of the non-D2 guys played at powerhouse schools, Tennessee Tech and IU-Indianapolis (f.k.a. IUPUI).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 04:49:31 PMThat's great, he can go to the MAC next year and dominate against more D2 transfers.
6 of the 9 players who logged minutes for CMU yesterday were playing D2 ball last season. Two of the non-D2 guys played at powerhouse schools, Tennessee Tech and IU-Indianapolis (f.k.a. IUPUI).
Are you going to cry this much after every game this season?
Reminds me of Packer whining and Brewer whining.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 04:28:42 PMThe Wardle thing is just trolling.
How dare you, Rico is working hard and analyzing all possibilities.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 23, 2025, 05:07:57 PMAre you going to cry this much after every game this season?
Pointing out facts is not "crying." They start guys who last year were playing for Ferris State, Wayne State, IU-South Bend (which I learned existed yesterday), and Kentucky Wesleyan, and had a guy play 17 minutes who played for what used to be known as Purdue-Calumet.
If Josh Clark plays well against actual D1 players, I'll give him his due. But, I'm going to wait and see how he does against the centers from Purdue, Tarris Reed, Jr., and Zuby before anointing him the great Big East center.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 05:22:05 PMPointing out facts is not "crying." They start guys who last year were playing for Ferris State, Wayne State, IU-South Bend (which I learned existed yesterday), and Kentucky Wesleyan, and had a guy play 17 minutes who played for what used to be known as Purdue-Calumet.
If Josh Clark plays well against actual D1 players, I'll give him his due. But, I'm going to wait and see how he does against the centers from Purdue, Tarris Reed, Jr., and Zuby before anointing him the great Big East center.
So are you crying about not going and getting the big time, big money transfers that you claim you don't even need Shaka to do, or are you crying about Shaka not landing the good fit, low cost, solid low major players from the schools that you won't give Josh Clark any credit for playing well against because it's against low major players?
Who anointed Josh Clark "the great Big East center" here?
People who cry for transfers get mad when people who accept that Shaka has done a great job so far and misplayed his hand this year point out when transfers don't work as being hyperbolic, and then go make statements like that?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 05:22:05 PMIf Josh Clark plays well against actual D1 players, I'll give him his due. But, I'm going to wait and see how he does against the centers from Purdue, Tarris Reed, Jr., and Zuby before anointing him the great Big East center.
Where did I say
anything about Clark being a "great Big East center"? You are so full of sh!t that the whites of your eyes have turned a distinctive shade of brown.
And the rest of your BS post quoted here-"I'm going to wait and see...before "anointing" him... ;D ;D ;D
ALL that was pointed out was that Clark had a good 8 minutes on the court and the details were listed. I should have known that someone like you would try to twist what was said because you just had to be you. ::) :o
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 04:49:31 PMThat's great, he can go to the MAC next year and dominate against more D2 transfers.
6 of the 9 players who logged minutes for CMU yesterday were playing D2 ball last season. Two of the non-D2 guys played at powerhouse schools, Tennessee Tech and IU-Indianapolis (f.k.a. IUPUI).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 05:22:05 PMPointing out facts is not "crying." They start guys who last year were playing for Ferris State, Wayne State, IU-South Bend (which I learned existed yesterday), and Kentucky Wesleyan, and had a guy play 17 minutes who played for what used to be known as Purdue-Calumet.
If Josh Clark plays well against actual D1 players, I'll give him his due. But, I'm going to wait and see how he does against the centers from Purdue, Tarris Reed, Jr., and Zuby before anointing him the great Big East center.
OK, I guess I'm not allowed to say anything positive about Marquette hoops. Thanks for putting me back on the correct path,, Billy. I and others here absolutely "anointed" him - I personally said Clark would be the next Patrick Ewing, and Snoop said Clark would be the next Alonzo Mourning. That was crazy talk on our part!
So you're right: Shaka should be ashamed of himself for taking a flier on a 7-footer. Here's hoping he cuts Josh Clark tomorrow.
There. That was a close one.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 06:09:50 PMOK, I guess I'm not allowed to say anything positive about Marquette hoops. Thanks for putting me back on the correct path,, Billy. I and others here absolutely "anointed" him - I personally said Clark would be the next Patrick Ewing, and Snoop said Clark would be the next Alonzo Mourning. That was crazy talk on our part!
So you're right: Shaka should be ashamed of himself for taking a flier on a 7-footer. Here's hoping he cuts Josh Clark tomorrow.
There. That was a close one.
Huh? I did not respond to you about Clark.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 06:24:11 PMHuh? I did not respond to you about Clark.
No, you responded to the Scooper who agreed with my positive and hopeful - in other words, CRAZY! - post about Clark.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 06:30:07 PMNo, you responded to the Scooper who agreed with my positive and hopeful - in other words, CRAZY! - post about Clark.
I didn't see that he responded to you.
That said, I do think Shaka made a mistake taking a flier on a developmental guy, again, when he could have used it to bring in a proven commodity big man who would have filled a giant hole last season and/or this season, instead of a possible Youssoupha Mbao who was unlikely to contribute for multiple seasons and wouldn't be able to help one of the best all around players we've had since Wade left.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 06:35:51 PMI didn't see that he responded to you.
That said, I do think Shaka made a mistake taking a flier on a developmental guy, again, when he could have used it to bring in a proven commodity big man who would have filled a giant hole last season and/or this season, instead of a possible Youssoupha Mbao who was unlikely to contribute for multiple seasons and wouldn't be able to help one of the best all around players we've had since Wade left.
(https://media.tenor.com/HllGX326DIIAAAAM/we-need-a-name-hop-sing.gif)
(I think Clark has potential to be a service able big man and is worth the scholly.)
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 06:35:51 PMI didn't see that he responded to you.
That said, I do think Shaka made a mistake taking a flier on a developmental guy, again, when he could have used it to bring in a proven commodity big man who would have filled a giant hole last season and/or this season, instead of a possible Youssoupha Mbao who was unlikely to contribute for multiple seasons and wouldn't be able to help one of the best all around players we've had since Wade left.
Duly noted. Again, thanks for making sure none of us say anything positive about any Marquette player for the rest of the season. Doing so would be akin to "accepting" Marquette's status as by far the worst team in the Big East.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 23, 2025, 01:20:08 PMKur is the exact same comparison me and my friends at the game said yesterday too. Not a star, but a mobile 7 footer who can give you 20 really good minutes as an upperclassmen.
This got me thinking, and I don't mean it as a swipe towards anyone, but if the hope is for Josh Clark to develop into a Kur Kuath-type ... why not just go get a Kur Kuath-type in the portal? Not saying they're necessarily a dime-a-dozen, but they're out there every year.
Seems more efficient and effective than spending 2-3 years of scholarship and resources (financial and otherwise) developing a guy who you hope becomes that type of player by the time he's an upperclassman. Why not just get someone who is that player now?
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 09:35:30 PMThis got me thinking, and I don't mean it as a swipe towards anyone, but if the hope is for Josh Clark to develop into a Kur Kuath-type ... why not just go get a Kur Kuath-type in the portal? Not saying they're necessarily a dime-a-dozen, but they're out there every year.
Seems more efficient and effective than spending 2-3 years of scholarship and resources (financial and otherwise) developing a guy who you hope becomes that type of player by the time he's an upperclassman. Why not just get someone who is that player now?
So just take Rick Pitino's stance and only take transfers (even if he doesn't actually follow that).
There aren't a ton of recruits who are ready to come in and play Big East rotational minutes as freshman. And transfers that are proven to be ready to play Big East rotational minutes will cost decent money. Sometimes you'll need to develop players over a couple of years.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 23, 2025, 09:42:08 PMSo just take Rick Pitino's stance and only take transfers (even if he doesn't actually follow that).
I'm not really sure what this means or how it responds to my question.
QuoteThere aren't a ton of recruits who are ready to come in and play Big East rotational minutes as freshman. And transfers that are proven to be ready to play Big East rotational minutes will cost decent money. Sometimes you'll need to develop players over a couple of years.
Sure, but what's a better use of MU's resources ... pay a guy for five years hoping he's productive for two, or pay a guy a little more for two years expecting he'll be productive for two?
Obviously there are no guarantees either way, but a guy who's proven he can play at the college level is a safer bet than a raw high school project, right?
What if Shaka thinks Josh Clark can be better than a Kur Kuath type? What if there are so few Kuath type transfers available that they are overpriced?
Like Pak, I don't know who these Kuath types are, how many there are, etc. I do know that Shaka identified a 7-foot 18-year-old that intrigued him. Over his first 4 years, Shaka gave me every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on personnel matters.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 10:25:32 PMWhat if Shaka thinks Josh Clark can be better than a Kur Kuath type? What if there are so few Kuath type transfers available that they are overpriced?
Like Pak, I don't know who these Kuath types are, how many there are, etc. I do know that Shaka identified a 7-foot 18-year-old that intrigued him. Over his first 4 years, Shaka gave me every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on personnel matters.
Yep. It's
way too early to know if he will work out. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. All you and I did was post about Clark having an impressive 8 minutes on the floor against an unimpressive opponent. We did not say, imply, or speculate about
anything other than commenting on those 8 minutes. ::)
That was enough to trigger one rant in particular that he isn't good, how Shaka should have used that scholarship for a better player, that he will fail against the best centers in the BE, and that the ranter wants Clark to prove himself to him, etc.
You also get 15 roster spots now. You cant have 15 guys all expecting minutes, hell you cant even have 11 or 12 - there arent enough minutes to spread around. I guess I dont see the issue in using one spot on a guy like Clark who is 7 feet and mobile and isnt expecting starter minutes early in his career?
There is plenty of room to add a long term piece like Clark and still add a transfer if needed. This isnt an either/or scenario.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 10:25:32 PMWhat if Shaka thinks Josh Clark can be better than a Kur Kuath type? What if there are so few Kuath type transfers available that they are overpriced?
Like Pak, I don't know who these Kuath types are, how many there are, etc. I do know that Shaka identified a 7-foot 18-year-old that intrigued him. Over his first 4 years, Shaka gave me every reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on personnel matters.
Really - every reason? You don't think getting a real big or PG from the portal last year as opposed to a bench stacked w "projects" would have made a difference?
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 23, 2025, 10:56:42 PMYep. It's way too early to know if he will work out. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. All you and I did was post about Clark having an impressive 8 minutes on the floor against an unimpressive opponent. We did not say, imply, or speculate about anything other than commenting on those 8 minutes. ::)
That was enough to trigger one rant in particular that he isn't good, how Shaka should have used that scholarship for a better player, that he will fail against the best centers in the BE, and that the ranter wants Clark to prove himself to him, etc.
Sure, if we otherwise had BE caliber players at all 5 slots - but we don't. FWIW I like Clark and think he has more upside than Hamilton, but you can't have two project 5s on a roster and no starter.
I'm totally fine giving Clark 5-8 min every game from here on out. Sure, he will get worked in some games (see St Johns with Ejiofor) but will it be THAT much worse than Gold/Caedin? Id give him the minutes with the potential upside down the road. Why not??
Quote from: 1SE on November 23, 2025, 11:51:10 PMReally - every reason? You don't think getting a real big or PG from the portal last year as opposed to a bench stacked w "projects" would have made a difference?
Ok. Almost every reason.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 09:35:30 PMThis got me thinking, and I don't mean it as a swipe towards anyone, but if the hope is for Josh Clark to develop into a Kur Kuath-type ... why not just go get a Kur Kuath-type in the portal? Not saying they're necessarily a dime-a-dozen, but they're out there every year.
Seems more efficient and effective than spending 2-3 years of scholarship and resources (financial and otherwise) developing a guy who you hope becomes that type of player by the time he's an upperclassman. Why not just get someone who is that player now?
Shaka tried a traditional route, Marquette got lots of good press about it, it has been shown to not work great 2 years in. No point in going over that ad nauseam now.
Now come next year, or maybe one more year after... If it turns out this isnt successful, and he doesn't go to the portal, then this point is very very valid.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 23, 2025, 08:26:16 PM(https://media.tenor.com/HllGX326DIIAAAAM/we-need-a-name-hop-sing.gif)
(I think Clark has potential to be a service able big man and is worth the scholly.)
Sure.
Chad Venning. Averaged double figures at Boston College as a grad transfer after leaving St. Bonaventure.
Baba Miller. Though I guess we don't have the money to out bid Florida Atlantic.
David Skogman, a Wisconsin kid and grad transfer who averaged 6 and 5 for DePaul after averaging 13 and 5 as a senior (or maybe we can't outbid DePaul).
There are three guys who could have contributed more than Hamilton and Clark to a team that badly needed a center that may have prevented a first-round exit last year.
In this new era of college basketball, playing the long game and hoping for development isn't like it was 5 years ago
Quote from: wadesworld on November 22, 2025, 08:40:54 PMNeed to ditch havoc. Gives way more than it takes. Start playing solid defense rather than chasing steals.
Indeed, and the same applies to the offense. When Nigel plays at Sean Jones helter-kelter pace, his results are dismal (just as Jones' are).
Shaka said clearly pre-season that he wants this team to play with incredible pace at both ends. The question is, with the poor results on both ends of the floor, will he adjust?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 24, 2025, 08:21:37 AMSure.
Chad Venning. Averaged double figures at Boston College as a grad transfer after leaving St. Bonaventure.
Baba Miller. Though I guess we don't have the money to out bid Florida Atlantic.
David Skogman, a Wisconsin kid and grad transfer who averaged 6 and 5 for DePaul after averaging 13 and 5 as a senior (or maybe we can't outbid DePaul).
There are three guys who could have contributed more than Hamilton and Clark to a team that badly needed a center that may have prevented a first-round exit last year.
In this new era of college basketball, playing the long game and hoping for development isn't like it was 5 years ago
This is all hindsight-driven. Always easy to actually pick out a few names after the season is over.
Venning started and played 26 MPG. Those minutes were not going to be available at Marquette yet you're assuming he would have transferred to come off the bench and play less? The same could be said for Miller.
Quote from: 1SE on November 23, 2025, 11:53:43 PMSure, if we otherwise had BE caliber players at all 5 slots - but we don't. FWIW I like Clark and think he has more upside than Hamilton, but you can't have two project 5s on a roster and no starter.
Agree. It was just that a post about a project 5 having a nice 8 minutes was practically rewritten by a scooper who went bonkers over it. I was pissed!
Marquette's problem at the 5 is undeniable. I have
no illusions that Clark can take over from Hamilton at this point and, like James, be a very pleasant surprise and be able to help turn this team around. The Valpo game hopefully will give Shaka an opportunity to give Clark a few minutes to show what he can do.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 24, 2025, 09:00:26 AMAgree. It was just that a post about a project 5 having a nice 8 minutes was practically rewritten by a scooper who went bonkers over it. I was pissed!
Marquette's problem at the 5 is undeniable. I have no illusions that Clark can take over from Hamilton at this point and, like James, be a very pleasant surprise and be able to help turn this team around. The Valpo game hopefully will give Shaka an opportunity to give Clark a few minutes to show what he can do.
Hopefully. Valpo is ranked 80 spots higher than Central Michigan in kenpom.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 24, 2025, 08:45:55 AMThis is all hindsight-driven. Always easy to actually pick out a few names after the season is over.
Venning started and played 26 MPG. Those minutes were not going to be available at Marquette yet you're assuming he would have transferred to come off the bench and play less? The same could be said for Miller.
Given his proven ability to identify somewhat overlooked/underrated gems in the transfer market, shouldn't we have faith that Shaka can find portal players who would succeed at Marquette?
His hit rate on transfers at MU has been much better than on high schoolers, no?
I think you may be overestimating the importance of minutes. Sure, kids want to play. But they also want to be on good teams with postseason possibilities, in good environments and with good coaches, teammates and support staff. If 25 mpg at BC or DePaul is more appealing than 18 mpg at Marquette, then we're doing something wrong.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 23, 2025, 09:55:53 PMSure, but what's a better use of MU's resources ... pay a guy for five years hoping he's productive for two, or pay a guy a little more for two years expecting he'll be productive for two?
Obviously there are no guarantees either way, but a guy who's proven he can play at the college level is a safer bet than a raw high school project, right?
This makes perfect sense, but it doesn't fit with Shaka's comments on NIL for incoming players.
Specifically, his comments along the lines of not paying an incoming player more than anyone who's already worn the uniform, ending recruitment of a HS players if they inquire about NIL, telling recruits they don't need agents and refusing to talk to players' agents.
That seems to imply that the cap for any new player is whatever Clark or Phillips are earning who are presumably at the low end of MU's NIL payouts. That feels like it would be below market rate for a quality transfer or a top-50 ranked HS player.
Thus a transfer with only one or two years eligibility left and wants to maximize NIL from year one isn't going to pick MU. A freshman can at least rationalize the notion of not getting much in year one with the ability to make up for it in years two through five--but the highest rated freshmen are only thinking they'll be in college for one or two years.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 23, 2025, 11:47:49 PMYou also get 15 roster spots now. You cant have 15 guys all expecting minutes, hell you cant even have 11 or 12 - there arent enough minutes to spread around. I guess I dont see the issue in using one spot on a guy like Clark who is 7 feet and mobile and isnt expecting starter minutes early in his career?
There is plenty of room to add a long term piece like Clark and still add a transfer if needed. This isnt an either/or scenario.
Maybe, maybe not. I really don't see the point/necessity of having 15 scholarship players. Seems an unnecessary thinning of resources, both financial and otherwise.
Might we be better off focusing our limited resources on 11-13 scholarship players who might positively effect the program, as opposed to paying 3-4 kids to sit on the bench all year?
Or, sign a 4 star seven footer, get him to skip his final year of high school, and pay him to redshirt and develop with the players, coaches, and training staff.
Quote from: tower912 on November 24, 2025, 10:23:20 AMOr, sign a 4 star seven footer, get him to skip his final year of high school, and pay him to redshirt and develop with the players, coaches, and training staff.
Right. Shaka misplayed his hand this season. Let's see how he responds before we decide a guy with a Final Four to his name and some great results in his first four seasons here doesn't know what he's doing in this era of college basketball.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 24, 2025, 08:21:37 AMSure.
Chad Venning. Averaged double figures at Boston College as a grad transfer after leaving St. Bonaventure.
Baba Miller. Though I guess we don't have the money to out bid Florida Atlantic.
David Skogman, a Wisconsin kid and grad transfer who averaged 6 and 5 for DePaul after averaging 13 and 5 as a senior (or maybe we can't outbid DePaul).
There are three guys who could have contributed more than Hamilton and Clark to a team that badly needed a center that may have prevented a first-round exit last year.
In this new era of college basketball, playing the long game and hoping for development isn't like it was 5 years ago
20/20 hindsight.
But sure, Shaka could have had both Venning and Clark on last year's 15-man roster, with Venning giving us valuable minutes and Clark redshirting. But what we really needed last year IMHO was a veteran backup PG and better shooting. Of course, that's 20/20 hindsight on my part, because Shaka thought Jones was coming back and didn't foresee Kam and Jop suddenly being unable to hit 3s.
Again though, sorry for actually saying something positive about one player ... which you interpreted as "anointing" him.
It is all hindsight. And, not to single you out, but it is fan fiction hindsight based on a model that Shaka has so far chosen not to use.
If the Brewers had just signed Ohtani...
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 10:47:29 AMRight. Shaka misplayed his hand this season. Let's see how he responds before we decide a guy with a Final Four to his name and some great results in his first four seasons here doesn't know what he's doing in this era of college basketball.
Yep, just have to reset expectations this year and maybe, but hopefully not, next. The player assessments weren't spot on for the Senior and Junior classes aside from Chase. The sophomore class assessment is TBD.
If the sophomores develop this year into special players and Shaka has truly hit on the freshman (which it looks like he may have) and the following class, MU will be back to a top 25 level team within the next two to three years.
I'm willing to be patient. Shaka is not a good, but a great representative of our University. I personally think it may have been difficult to recruit behind 3 and 4 year All-American/NBA players. But I know that's an excuse and doubt that Shaka thinks that way.
If Shaka can accelerate the time frame back to a top 25 team through the portal if a couple players leave, great! If not, I'll still be watching.
If somehow this team turns it around this year and develops enough to be a tournament team, then I will reiterate that it will be his best coaching job at Marquette and likely will blow away the job he did to win the Big East title.
Quote from: MU82 on November 24, 2025, 11:46:30 AM20/20 hindsight.
Quote from: tower912 on November 24, 2025, 11:51:18 AMIt is all hindsight.
Of course, but Spaniel asked Billy for names. So he gave him names. It was meant to be hindsight!
Quote from: Pakuni on November 24, 2025, 10:06:06 AMGiven his proven ability to identify somewhat overlooked/underrated gems in the transfer market, shouldn't we have faith that Shaka can find portal players who would succeed at Marquette?
His hit rate on transfers at MU has been much better than on high schoolers, no?
I think you may be overestimating the importance of minutes. Sure, kids want to play. But they also want to be on good teams with postseason possibilities, in good environments and with good coaches, teammates and support staff. If 25 mpg at BC or DePaul is more appealing than 18 mpg at Marquette, then we're doing something wrong.
It's true that I might be overestimating the importance of minutes but it might depend on the kid and their individual goals. I think the majority that transfer are doing so for a bigger role and more minutes. Additionally, NIL is a consideration because of Shaka's philosophy.
If Shaka went into the portal I think he would do fairly well. However, for example, it's not like most envisioned OMax being a first round pick 2 years after averaging 2PPG at Clemson.
The staff needs to take an honest look in the mirror about why things have unfolded like they have this season
Both recruiting and development need to improve because there's a slim margin for error with this approach.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 24, 2025, 12:16:39 PMBoth recruiting and development need to improve because there's a slim margin for error with this approach.
This one sentence explains many of Marquette's current problems in a nutshell.
Quote from: tower912 on November 24, 2025, 11:51:18 AMIt is all hindsight. And, not to single you out, but it is fan fiction hindsight based on a model that Shaka has so far chosen not to use.
If the Brewers had just signed Ohtani...
The Brewers didn't choose not to sign Ohtani. He was never an option. If he were an option and the Brewers said, "Nah, we're going to build rosters exclusively through our farm system," then I imagine they'd be criticized for that.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 24, 2025, 12:31:58 PMThe Brewers didn't choose not to sign Ohtani. He was never an option. If he were an option and the Brewers said, "Nah, we're going to build rosters exclusively through our farm system," then I imagine they'd be criticized for that.
Such a laughable comparison
Quote from: Pakuni on November 24, 2025, 12:31:58 PMThe Brewers didn't choose not to sign Ohtani. He was never an option. If he were an option and the Brewers said, "Nah, we're going to build rosters exclusively through our farm system," then I imagine they'd be criticized for that.
Not only that, but the Brewers have largely built their teams through trades. Not drafting and developing.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 23, 2025, 08:26:16 PM(https://media.tenor.com/HllGX326DIIAAAAM/we-need-a-name-hop-sing.gif)
FWIW, 9 of the other 10 Big East programs start big men who transferred into their programs. Providence is the lone exception with a top-40 (or so) big man Oswin Erhunwumse, who does platoon with transfer big man Cole Hargrove.
If literally every other Big East program can find a big to play major minutes in the middle, I'm sure we could find someone who could at least provide positive contributions in our system.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 24, 2025, 01:23:33 PMFWIW, 9 of the other 10 Big East programs start big men who transferred into their programs. Providence is the lone exception with a top-40 (or so) big man Oswin Erhunwumse, who does platoon with transfer big man Cole Hargrove.
If literally every other Big East program can find a big to play major minutes in the middle, I'm sure we could find someone who could at least provide positive contributions in our system.
Aren't we crying about how awful the Big East is and has been the last couple of years around here?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 02:12:37 PMAren't we crying about how awful the Big East is and has been the last couple of years around here?
Well, if we finish in the bottom half, what does that tell you?
Quote from: The Sultan on November 24, 2025, 02:17:44 PMWell, if we finish in the bottom half, what does that tell you?
It tells you that Shaka didn't put together a good enough roster. And that some mediocre center transfer probably wouldn't have changed that.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 02:18:31 PMIt tells you that Shaka didn't put together a good enough roster. And that some mediocre center transfer probably wouldn't have changed that.
Right. So how do you correct your "good enough" roster for the future? You can recruit more 18 year olds, recruit transfers who have proven they can play at the D1 level, or a combination of both.
Right now we are only doing the first.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 24, 2025, 02:22:37 PMRight. So how do you correct your "good enough" roster for the future? You can recruit more 18 year olds, recruit transfers who have proven they can play at the D1 level, or a combination of both.
Right now we are only doing the first.
Yup. But I'm not going to sit here and cry because all but 1 other team in the Big East, almost all of who we think aren't doing enough, were willing to bring in a transfer center. Or cry because even Providence took a "star" transfer - when their results are more or less the same we've had this year.
I'll trust that Shaka will figure it out. He has a lot to lose if he doesn't, and seems to be a pretty competitive guy who likes winning games.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 02:31:54 PMYup. But I'm not going to sit here and cry because all but 1 other team in the Big East, who almost all of who we think aren't doing enough, were willing to bring in a transfer center. Or cry because even Providence took a "star" transfer - when their results are more or less the same we've had this year.
No one is crying. People are concerned that this year's roster isn't competitive enough and believe that there are ways that it could have been prevented. Sure there are some engaging in hyperbole, but most of the discussion has been pretty level headed and reasonable.
I'm like Shaka, old school. The best ways always prevail in the end.
+No freshmen on varsity, no dunking, no transfers, and quality set shots.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 02:12:37 PMAren't we crying about how awful the Big East is and has been the last couple of years around here?
This literally has nothing to do with what I posted.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 10:47:29 AMRight. Shaka misplayed his hand this season. Let's see how he responds before we decide a guy with a Final Four to his name and some great results in his first four seasons here doesn't know what he's doing in this era of college basketball.
High school recruiting wise, Shaka has misplayed his hand every season since he's been here at the five. Who has he brought in? That's why we've been in this position ever since Oso -- who he inherited -- left. It's been house of cards at center.
That being said, I agree, moving forward Sheek is the type of guy he should have been targeting from the start with the occasional project.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 24, 2025, 05:00:40 PMHigh school recruiting wise, Shaka has misplayed his hand every season since he's been here at the five. Who has he brought in? That's why we've been in this position ever since Oso -- who he inherited -- left. It's been house of cards at center.
That being said, I agree, moving forward Sheek is the type of guy he should have been targeting from the start with the occasional project.
He didn't inherit Oso. That's not how it works and this continued nonsense that doesn't give him credit for re-recruiting him and developing him is getting old.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 24, 2025, 05:08:54 PMHe didn't inherit Oso. That's not how it works and this continued nonsense that doesn't give him credit for re-recruiting him and developing him is getting old.
Well, he did. God, you're such a baby. And yes, he re-recruited him.
And sure, I'll give him all the credit for developing him. The larger point is he hasn't recruited anyone near his skill level since.
Holloway just took down N.C.State,ranked 23rd, with a crew of transfers who could shoot.
Seemed to me that everyone on the court came from somewhere. Some even at their third school.
No need to debate, the numbers will reveal the new reality. The Hall looks like no.3 in the beast.
How did Holloway do it????
Quote from: vogue65 on November 24, 2025, 05:25:55 PMNo need to debate, the numbers will reveal the new reality. The Hall looks like no.3 in the beast.
lol no they don't
Quote from: vogue65 on November 24, 2025, 05:25:55 PMHolloway just took down N.C.State,ranked 23rd, with a crew of transfers who could shoot.
Seemed to me that everyone on the court came from somewhere. Some even at their third school.
No need to debate, the numbers will reveal the new reality. The Hall looks like no.3 in the beast.
How did Holloway do it????
I'll take this bet.
Seton Hall's real shooting % is 236th in the nation, including today. They're 195th in 3 point shooting. They're 255th in 2 point shooting.
Going back to St. Peter's, his best 3 point shooting team was 111th. His best offense has been 70th in KenPom.
His highest usage guy currently, shot 29% from 3 last year at Merrimack. Elijah Fisher shot 31% from 3 at Pacific. Their current best 3 point shooter shot 26% from 3 at Elon last year. AJ Staton-McCrary shot 41% from 3 at Samford 2 years ago, went to Miami and shot 31% against better competition. They also added Mike Williams who shot 37% from 3 2 years ago and plummeted to 25% last year.
There will be plenty of teams with transfers that will finish in last place in multiple conferences.
It will be pointed out in a sarcastic way that because of this the portal is not a panacea. And there will be inside jokes and laughter.
But, what goes unspoken, is that it is always about player evaluation for fit and talent. These people know this but will continue the jokes about bad teams with portal players.
Whether you recruit only freshman or only portal players the same evaluation for fit and talent applies.
Closing the door on a major way of player procurement seems unnecessarily burdensome to logical people. Perhaps they are the ones that should be snickering and not the other way around.
The facts are our coach doesn't want to use the portal. So we all have to accept if for now. But making fun of portal use on other teams, good or bad, is silly.
Quote from: vogue65 on November 24, 2025, 05:25:55 PMHolloway just took down N.C.State,ranked 23rd, with a crew of transfers who could shoot.
Seemed to me that everyone on the court came from somewhere. Some even at their third school.
No need to debate, the numbers will reveal the new reality. The Hall looks like no.3 in the beast.
How did Holloway do it????
Very impressive win, but
my Gawd you are assuming a lot! Did Seton Hall's upsets of UCONN last season immediately make them a highly ranked team or earn an invite to the Big Dance?
Your "no need to debate" is classic Muggsyian absolutism. ;D
Could Seton Hall be the biggest surprise in The BE this year? Sure. But this one game conclusion that there is no need to debate is ridiculous.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 24, 2025, 05:45:53 PMThere will be plenty of teams with transfers that will finish in last place in multiple conferences.
It will be pointed out in a sarcastic way that because of this the portal is not a panacea. And there will be inside jokes and laughter.
But, what goes unspoken, is that it is always about player evaluation for fit and talent. These people know this but will continue the jokes about bad teams with portal players.
Whether you recruit only freshman or only portal players the same evaluation for fit and talent applies.
Closing the door on a major way of player procurement seems unnecessarily burdensome to logical people. Perhaps they are the ones that should be snickering and not the other way around.
The facts are our coach doesn't want to use the portal. So we all have to accept if for now. But making fun of portal use on other teams, good or bad, is silly.
Not an absolute
For now. But agreed not an absolute
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 24, 2025, 05:11:33 PMWell, he did. God, you're such a baby. And yes, he re-recruited him.
And sure, I'll give him all the credit for developing him. The larger point is he hasn't recruited anyone near his skill level since.
When you inherit something, it's yours. Having to re-recruit someone is not equivalent to inheriting a player. A high percentage of players leave when there is a coaching change.
I'm not a baby, you were just wrong.
Quote from: vogue65 on November 24, 2025, 05:25:55 PMHolloway just took down N.C.State,ranked 23rd, with a crew of transfers who could shoot.
Seemed to me that everyone on the court came from somewhere. Some even at their third school.
No need to debate, the numbers will reveal the new reality. The Hall looks like no.3 in the beast.
How did Holloway do it????
I'm 100% certain that you haven't seen enough of either Seton Hall or the other 10 Big East teams to know what you're talking about here.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 06:35:51 PMI didn't see that he responded to you.
That said, I do think Shaka made a mistake taking a flier on a developmental guy, again, when he could have used it to bring in a proven commodity big man who would have filled a giant hole last season and/or this season, instead of a possible Youssoupha Mbao who was unlikely to contribute for multiple seasons and wouldn't be able to help one of the best all around players we've had since Wade left.
This to me is the heart of the matter. I'm with Shaka - it seems to me where he is going to get us to is where Hamilton and Clark are 5th year seniors, old big experienced and skilled. He has a track record of developing bigs. They will be far better imho at that point than any transfers. With 15 scholarships, redshirting liberally, we are going eventually be old, and have a sustainable NIL situation - no small feat for non blue blood. Now does that mean he didn't quite get it right roster wise this season or last? Maybe. I am a deep kool-aid drinker and I love this team as it is. Hamilton I think is going to be fine - we are watching the painful growing pains as he gets his on court experience but he passes my eye test for athleticism and skills and attitude - I bet he develops into a reliable BE center this year. My main criticism for Shaka would be that some aspect of the culture and coaching is having these guys play really tight. Its undeniable - we are missing open layups and 3s. The scheme is getting the looks and the players are missing good shots. That's why (ducks as bottles and pans fly my way) I would like to see more makeable (that is open) midrange shots so that our shooters can get into a rhythm, so that we have an offense with more variance that allows better flow.
Quote from: milwaukee expat on November 25, 2025, 10:02:58 AMThis to me is the heart of the matter. I'm with Shaka - it seems to me where he is going to get us to is where Hamilton and Clark are 5th year seniors, old big experienced and skilled. He has a track record of developing bigs. They will be far better imho at that point than any transfers. With 15 scholarships, redshirting liberally, we are going eventually be old, and have a sustainable NIL situation - no small feat for non blue blood. Now does that mean he didn't quite get it right roster wise this season or last? Maybe. I am a deep kool-aid drinker and I love this team as it is. Hamilton I think is going to be fine - we are watching the painful growing pains as he gets his on court experience but he passes my eye test for athleticism and skills and attitude - I bet he develops into a reliable BE center this year. My main criticism for Shaka would be that some aspect of the culture and coaching is having these guys play really tight. Its undeniable - we are missing open layups and 3s. The scheme is getting the looks and the players are missing good shots. That's why (ducks as bottles and pans fly my way) I would like to see more makeable (that is open) midrange shots so that our shooters can get into a rhythm, so that we have an offense with more variance that allows better flow.
Live look at Expat's eye test
(https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.8M2-lfR_FY-eBLZ8n9btxQHaE7?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain&o=7&rm=3)
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 24, 2025, 08:21:28 PMWhen you inherit something, it's yours. Having to re-recruit someone is not equivalent to inheriting a player. A high percentage of players leave when there is a coaching change.
I'm not a baby, you were just wrong.
more players stay than leave when there's a coaching change. Yes, some do leave. BUT, keeping a player in the program is easier than bringing a player in to the program. Did Shaka re-recruit? I suppose. But the player was already here. There was a degree of comfort level already in place with the school and teammates.
Quote from: Viper on November 25, 2025, 08:45:13 PMmore players stay than leave when there's a coaching change. Yes, some do leave. BUT, keeping a player in the program is easier than bringing a player in to the program. Did Shaka re-recruit? I suppose. But the player was already here. There was a degree of comfort level already in place with the school and teammates.
#wrong
Quote from: Viper on November 25, 2025, 08:45:13 PMmore players stay than leave when there's a coaching change. Yes, some do leave. BUT, keeping a player in the program is easier than bringing a player in to the program. Did Shaka re-recruit? I suppose. But the player was already here. There was a degree of comfort level already in place with the school and teammates.
1) Do you have actual retention stats, pre and post-portal?
2) I suppose? ::) Shaka absolutely re-recruited and both he and the players have said as much multiple times.
3) Players choose a coach, not a school.
4) To say there was such a degree of comfort for Kam and Stevie with the school and teammates as incoming freshman who had never taken a class or practiced with the team, is laughable.
You're on a roll tonight.
Quote from: milwaukee expat on November 25, 2025, 10:02:58 AMHe has a track record of developing bigs.
He has a track record of recruiting some good one and done centers at Texas. I'll give him some credit for Oso's development, but other than that it's been underwhelming. When he accepted a job with MU, having difficulty finding talented big men was not on my bingo card. Hopefully Sheek is the answer.
Quote from: Markusquette on November 26, 2025, 12:09:36 PMHe has a track record of recruiting some good one and done centers at Texas. I'll give him some credit for Oso's development, but other than that it's been underwhelming. When he accepted a job with MU, having difficulty finding talented big men was not on my bingo card. Hopefully Sheek is the answer.
I'm sure Shaka appreciates you giving him some credit for Oso's development. We all wish Gold were better, but he's already proven to be a starting 5 on an NCAAT-caliber team. Hamilton doesn't appear to be an NCAAT-caliber big; if he doesn't improve markedly, that would be a "fail." Way too early to tell with Clark IMHO.
Quote from: Markusquette on November 26, 2025, 12:09:36 PMHe has a track record of recruiting some good one and done centers at Texas. I'll give him some credit for Oso's development, but other than that it's been underwhelming. When he accepted a job with MU, having difficulty finding talented big men was not on my bingo card. Hopefully Sheek is the answer.
We are actively looking for new coaches
So you both disagree that his acquisition and development of big men at MU has been underwhelming thus far?
Quote from: Markusquette on November 26, 2025, 08:48:34 PMSo you both disagree that his acquisition and development of big men at MU has been underwhelming thus far?
Shaka suxs
Quote from: Markusquette on November 26, 2025, 08:48:34 PMSo you both disagree that his acquisition and development of big men at MU has been underwhelming thus far?
I think you should have read your post over before hitting the button. ::)
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 26, 2025, 09:27:39 PMI think you should have read your post over before hitting the button. ::)
Why read?
Quote from: MU82 on November 26, 2025, 05:03:59 PMI'm sure Shaka appreciates you giving him some credit for Oso's development. We all wish Gold were better, but he's already proven to be a starting 5 on an NCAAT-caliber team. Hamilton doesn't appear to be an NCAAT-caliber big; if he doesn't improve markedly, that would be a "fail." Way too early to tell with Clark IMHO.
I think Hamilton and Clark both have a chance to be decent players as juniors and seniors. They were both projects but the trajectory has been good given where they started. To the extent there was a mistake it was expecting that they'd man the 5 spot this year. The best lineup is with Gold at the 5 and Parham at the 4 but neither is playing as well as I expected.
Quote from: Zog from Margo on November 26, 2025, 10:49:01 PMI think Hamilton and Clark both have a chance to be decent players as juniors and seniors. They were both projects but the trajectory has been good given where they started. To the extent there was a mistake it was expecting that they'd man the 5 spot this year. The best lineup is with Gold at the 5 and Parham at the 4 but neither is playing as well as I expected.
I generally agree with this, though I think Gold has been fine defensively when he's not running around near half court, and he's rebounding the best he has as a collegian. His lack of offensive progress has been disappointing. Parham has played with more aggressiveness the last couple of games but we need better all-around play from him.
Those who think Clark will never be a player might turn out to be right, but IMHO it is way too early to say he'll never develop into one.
Quote from: MU82 on November 27, 2025, 12:19:06 AMThose who think Clark will never be a player might turn out to be tight
u so nazty!
Quote from: MU82 on November 27, 2025, 12:19:06 AMThose who think Clark will never be a player might turn out to be tight, but IMHO it is way too early to say he'll never develop into one.
Me and my buddy Clark
are tight. And if Shaka plays him for even one minute in our next win, I'm voting for him as SOTG.
tight ... right ... fight ... light ... might ... height ... smite ... blight ... night ... plight ... quite ... sight ... spite ... trite ... whatevs.
Quote from: MU82 on November 27, 2025, 10:45:16 AMtight ... right ... fight ... light ... might ... height ... smite ... blight ... night ... plight ... quite ... sight ... spite ... trite ... whatevs.
I'm always happy to be your editor, Mike.