Shaka has created a mess. And, unfortunately he and MU have tripled down on it ...
In the last few weeks MU had a big story in their Alumni magazine about Shaka and his refusal to use the portal. Worse yet, the NYT wrote an article on the same topic.
It seems to me that he and MU (Kimo) are just SO in love with being holier than all of college hoops that they have backed themselves into a serious corner.
This team is Shaka's , and the team is flat out terrible. He's assembled a roster that has ( at most ) four or five BE caliber players; Ross, Gold, James and Zaide. After that ? Meh. Nothing
He wants the team to shoot tons of threes, but they CAN'T shoot ! They play no defense... they turn the ball over way too much... and oh - are so badly coached they can't get a shot off in 17 seconds!
I hope I'm wrong, but this is a .500 team at best. Likely worse.
And now what ? How does he change course? Or is he too stubborn? Does he change his mind and use the Portal?
The whole premise of outright refusal to use the portal is insane. For us to
" trust Shaka " means we have to believe that he's smarter than every other D1 coach. Really... think about that. He knows better than Hurley, Pitino, IZZO, etc etc
Did he not see this coming ? Does he think Hamilton is a BE center? Why is Tre still on the team ? And Owens? Just awful
Where does he go from here ?
Great questions, what do you suggest
If the whole team (except for the seniors) entered the portal tonight, which players get scooped up by top 35 (at large level) teams?
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 19, 2025, 10:25:50 PMIf the whole team (except for the seniors) entered the portal tonight, which players get scooped up by top 35 (at large level) teams?
Nigel
Adrien should but he wouldn't
Quote from: DoctorV on November 19, 2025, 10:20:10 PMGreat questions, what do you suggest
Use the portal. Pretty obvious to me. Even if some guys develop this season and emerge as key contributors, I don't think that's enough to believe they're better off without the portal.
People and media are gonna waste so much time screaming about how "Shaka needs to do transfers"
When really he needs to be grilled about why this team doesn't follow his culture doc, and why the talent of some of the players is questionable
Quote from: jfp61 on November 19, 2025, 10:43:54 PMPeople and media are gonna waste so much time screaming about how "Shaka needs to do transfers"
When really he needs to be grilled about why this team doesn't follow his culture doc, and why the talent of some of the players is questionable
Some people aren't smart enough, some not able enough, some not bright lights enough.
The ability to follow the culture doc isn't zero sum. You recruit elite players, you bring in some not as elite that you think will get it sooner than later, but at the end of the day you just don't know.
This year, the culture doc needs some friends to jump on the wagon and help row the sinking ship
Quote from: jfp61 on November 19, 2025, 10:43:54 PMthe talent of some of the players is questionable
*some* is always questionable regardless of recruiting or portaling.
All except for 4-6 is the problem (at their current states of development).
I'm confused about something: when Shaka got here the first thing he did was convince Kolik and Prosper to transfer into the program. After striking gold using this method, why did he suddenly decide to stop pursuing transfers? I don't get it.
Quote from: Mutaman on November 19, 2025, 10:48:21 PMI'm confused about something: when Shaka got here the first thing he did was convince Kolik and Prosper to transfer into the program. After striking gold using this method, why did he suddenly decide to stop pursuing transfers? I don't get it.
The only way he could field an actual team his first year was with transfers. He had no other options.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 19, 2025, 10:51:44 PMThe only way he could field an actual team his first year was with transfers. He had no other options.
That is not true. Also, you pretend he couldn't spend the same $ on portal transfers as he does returning players (commiserate with class year). Also not true.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 19, 2025, 10:51:44 PMThe only way he could field an actual team his first year was with transfers. He had no other options.
That's fair, but that wasn't the question.
The question is, after striking gold in the transfer market, why did he decide that the transfer market is not for him? One might think he'd be willing to dip his toe into an area in which he had a great deal of success, especially relative to his high school recruiting.
I mean, his biggest transfer successes are TK, OMax and Morsell. His high school successes (to date) are Joplin, Chase, Gold.
Which way would you lean?
Quote from: Mutaman on November 19, 2025, 10:48:21 PMI'm confused about something: when Shaka got here the first thing he did was convince Kolik and Prosper to transfer into the program. After striking gold using this method, why did he suddenly decide to stop pursuing transfers? I don't get it.
He knew very early that at Marquette, the way to win was to get old and stay old.
The first few years he struck gold when he got in the lab and brought in some elite transfers, and retained and coached up some Wojo recruits.
Then he brought in his own guys- guys in the 75-125 range in the rankings that would fit his retention yet not dropping heavy cash mold and grow old and stay old method.
He knows what he's doing, he has a plan, but like all of us he expected someone like Damarius to become a star, and Royce to follow suit. He expected more out of almost everyone on this roster, and he's been let down.
So, now he has to adjust
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2025, 10:54:58 PMThat is not true. Also, you pretend he couldn't spend the same $ on portal transfers as he does returning players (commiserate with class year). Also not true.
Please share the roster he would have had his first season if he didn't include transfers.
I don't pretend a thing. Not sure where you're getting that sh*t from.
Quote from: Mutaman on November 19, 2025, 10:48:21 PMI'm confused about something: when Shaka got here the first thing he did was convince Kolik and Prosper to transfer into the program. After striking gold using this method, why did he suddenly decide to stop pursuing transfers? I don't get it.
The end of Skaka first season ended rough. Shaka talked about culture. Was he talking about Kur Kuath & Darryl Morsell? I don't know. Makes you wonder.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 19, 2025, 11:00:43 PMPlease share the roster he would have had his first season if he didn't include transfers.
I don't pretend a thing. Not sure where you're getting that sh*t from.
First year. I'm not saying it would have been good (much like this year) , but he could have had a team without transfers.
Sh*t? Likely from how far you've got your head up Shaka's A$$
Quote from: DoctorV on November 19, 2025, 10:58:08 PMHe knows what he's doing, he has a plan, but like all of us he expected someone like Damarius to become a star, and Royce to follow suit. He expected more out of almost everyone on this roster, and he's been let down.
This. I'd add Hamilton and S. Jones as well. Someone else remarked after Maryland, but it seems the staff had convinced themselves Jones and Hamilton were the breaktrough stars this year. Far from it.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2025, 11:03:51 PMFirst year. I'm not saying it would have been good (much like this year) , but he could have had a team without transfers.
Sh*t? Likely from how far you've got your head up Shaka's A$$
"We would have loved to have 3 project redshirt freshmen, but unfortunately we had to field a team so we instead we got a fringe lottery pick, a top 40 pick and all American, the big ten defensive player of the year, and another 7 foot senior."
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2025, 11:03:51 PMFirst year. I'm not saying it would have been good (much like this year) , but he could have had a team without transfers.
Sh*t? Likely from how far you've got your head up Shaka's A$$
I suppose I could have said "competitive team" but it seemed pretty logical that was inferred, unless someone just wanted to be pedantic.
Yeah, sh*t. Comprehension seems to be an issue for you. My head is not up his a**. All I've ever said is based on how he's described his approach, that he's not going to use the portal aside from specific and unlikely circumstances.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 19, 2025, 11:14:46 PMComprehension seems to be an issue for you.
I don't think I'm the problem here.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2025, 11:22:06 PMI don't think I'm the problem here.
Well to be fair, this team hasn't been the same since the dentists were run off. Coinkydink?
Quote from: DoctorV on November 19, 2025, 10:58:08 PMHe knew very early that at Marquette, the way to win was to get old and stay old.
The first few years he struck gold when he got in the lab and brought in some elite transfers, and retained and coached up some Wojo recruits.
Then he brought in his own guys- guys in the 75-125 range in the rankings that would fit his retention yet not dropping heavy cash mold and grow old and stay old method.
He knows what he's doing, he has a plan, but like all of us he expected someone like Damarius to become a star, and Royce to follow suit. He expected more out of almost everyone on this roster, and he's been let down.
So, now he has to adjust
With respect to this year's team, what did he know and when did he know it?
Quote from: Mu8891 on November 19, 2025, 10:18:47 PMDid he not see this coming ? Does he think Hamilton is a BE center? Why is Tre still on the team ? And Owens? Just awful
Where does he go from here ?
This is one of my biggest worries. Shaka talked up Caedin every chance he got. Has compared his passing to Oso. That is either a gross misevaluation and a completely unfair expectation to put on the kid.
This comes after hearing since January that Sean was ready and would be a difference maker. Owens was supposed to be sixth starter good last year. Norman wasn't remotely one of the biggest problems yesterday, but overall he's never met the expectation coming in.
In order for RGV to work, if we're redshirting 3, you need around a 75% hit rate on recruits. 12 scholarships, 9 guys to contribute (8 man rotation + 1 good enough to offset injuries). Doesn't seem like much is expected of freshmen Clark or Phillips this year, so that's two that are misses for this season. Norman, Owens, Parham, Hamilton, and SJ are all not matching production expectations based on previous Shaka era players in the same stage of development.
I don't see how this model works with that many evaluation misses, or how it gets better next year with Ross & Gold leaving.
Quote from: Mu8891 on November 19, 2025, 10:18:47 PMShaka has created a mess. And, unfortunately he and MU have tripled down on it ...
In the last few weeks MU had a big story in their Alumni magazine about Shaka and his refusal to use the portal. Worse yet, the NYT wrote an article on the same topic.
It seems to me that he and MU (Kimo) are just SO in love with being holier than all of college hoops that they have backed themselves into a serious corner.
This team is Shaka's , and the team is flat out terrible. He's assembled a roster that has ( at most ) four or five BE caliber players; Ross, Gold, James and Zaide. After that ? Meh. Nothing
He wants the team to shoot tons of threes, but they CAN'T shoot ! They play no defense... they turn the ball over way too much... and oh - are so badly coached they can't get a shot off in 17 seconds!
I hope I'm wrong, but this is a .500 team at best. Likely worse.
And now what ? How does he change course? Or is he too stubborn? Does he change his mind and use the Portal?
The whole premise of outright refusal to use the portal is insane. For us to
" trust Shaka " means we have to believe that he's smarter than every other D1 coach. Really... think about that. He knows better than Hurley, Pitino, IZZO, etc etc
Did he not see this coming ? Does he think Hamilton is a BE center? Why is Tre still on the team ? And Owens? Just awful
Where does he go from here ?
.
You sound like its the end of the world. The sky is falling. For God's sake calm down. Let this team develop. Shaka will coach and mold them into a competitive group. Hang in there.
There's no doubt things look pretty bleak. I get Sean got injured but the truth is we have in many ways looked worse since the IU game. There's just not a lot of things we do well offensively, and defensively we've been absolutely awful. Depending on steals to win games is a recipe for disaster. Losing the game yesterday with Dayton coughing it up like crazy amplifies how this isn't a winning formula.
I thought our speed and depth would be our calling card, but clearly we have fewer guys capable of major contributions than I thought. Worse, I don't see much growth whatsoever from our returning guys. Chase to a degree, but no one else has looked better at all.
We can't shoot, but more importantly can't pass or create opportunities in our h-c offense. NJ will get there, but when we do attack and there's no open space, we seemingly have no idea what to do. It's astonishing. We just play off of one foot and hope to draw fouls or brick inside. Our spacing is garbage and our vision and movement off the ball is worse.
Defensively, we have to fully 🪓 the hard hedge imo. It's killing us. We're also atrocious at getting around screens and screening on offense. Fundamentally this tean is truly awful, there's no way to sugarcoat it. So when I look at remedies for this group, I'm sadly at a loss. The probs are immense right now and it's extremely depressing. :(
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 06:30:53 AMThis is one of my biggest worries. Shaka talked up Caedin every chance he got. Has compared his passing to Oso. That is either a gross misevaluation and a completely unfair expectation to put on the kid.
This comes after hearing since January that Sean was ready and would be a difference maker. Owens was supposed to be sixth starter good last year. Norman wasn't remotely one of the biggest problems yesterday, but overall he's never met the expectation coming in.
In order for RGV to work, if we're redshirting 3, you need around a 75% hit rate on recruits. 12 scholarships, 9 guys to contribute (8 man rotation + 1 good enough to offset injuries). Doesn't seem like much is expected of freshmen Clark or Phillips this year, so that's two that are misses for this season. Norman, Owens, Parham, Hamilton, and SJ are all not matching production expectations based on previous Shaka era players in the same stage of development.
I don't see how this model works with that many evaluation misses, or how it gets better next year with Ross & Gold leaving.
I don't know who in their right mind could have watched Norman and thought for a second, this is a BE caliber player. He actually had a few nice moments last night, and then some typical slap your face moments. Major staff failure.
Sean not much better. I feel bad for him with the injuries, but the fact remains he's a guy well under 6 feet (no way is he the 5'10 he's listed) who can't shoot and can't finish attacking the basket. Yes, he's very quick and can impact a game to some degree with his quickness, but his ceiling is a backup at this level. Before the shoulder injury, he wasn't showing anything other than that Nigel is already a clearly better option.
Other guys Owens, Hamilton, etc., like their size and athleticism. They need to slow down and play to what they do well right now. Hamilton in the first half tried a ridiculous attack with his left hand and of course turned it over. A 2nd half possession, he established nice low post position, took the pass and made a nice little jump hook. Keep it simple and don't do what you're not capable should be the mantra for the young guys trying to develop. And that's on the coaches to drive home.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 20, 2025, 06:59:51 AMI don't know who in their right mind could have watched Norman and thought for a second, this is a BE caliber player. He actually had a few nice moments last night, and then some typical slap your face moments. Major staff failure.
Sean not much better. I feel bad for him with the injuries, but the fact remains he's a guy well under 6 feet (no way is he the 5'10 he's listed) who can't shoot and can't finish attacking the basket. Yes, he's very quick and can impact a game to some degree with his quickness, but his ceiling is a backup at this level. Before the shoulder injury, he wasn't showing anything other than that Nigel is already a clearly better option.
Other guys Owens, Hamilton, etc., like their size and athleticism. They need to slow down and play to what they do well right now. Hamilton in the first half tried a ridiculous attack with his left hand and of course turned it over. A 2nd half possession, he established nice low post position, took the pass and made a nice little jump hook. Keep it simple and don't do what you're not capable should be the mantra for the young guys trying to develop. And that's on the coaches to drive home.
I would suggest that Norman is not a huge worry. He's big and long. Defends very well. Creates turnovers. And he's not playing all that much anyway
The problem is that the team is so devoid of consistent offense that you can "hide" him on that side of the floor. Two years ago, you could have easily put this version of Norman in as a 10-12 mpg sub for Stevie and you would have been fine. But now you have to put the ball in his hands too much because...well...who else are you counting on?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 19, 2025, 11:03:51 PMFirst year. I'm not saying it would have been good (much like this year) , but he could have had a team without transfers.
Sh*t? Likely from how far you've got your head up Shaka's A$$
Says the guy who had his head so far up Wojo's A$$ for 5 years. Can't make it up! Let's dog the coach who came into MU after a 10 year NCAA tournament win drought, and took over for the 83rd ranked Steve Wojo squad - and delivers 4 NCAA bids in 4 season, two, Number 2 seeds, A Big East regular season and conference championship, and has made the Semi's of the Big East tournament 3 out of 4 years.
Program hits a speed bump and 90% of Scoop are bitching about the guy who accomplished the above. It's a sad reflection on the die hard MU fanbase.
Things aren't great right now, but FFS Shaka should get some slack to get it sorted out even if it takes a couple of years, based on the first 4 he delivered.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:06:45 AMSays the guy who had his head so far up Wojo's A$$ for 5 years. Can't make it up! Let's dog the coach who came into MU after a 10 year NCAA tournament win drought, and took over for the 83rd ranked Steve Wojo squad - and delivers 4 NCAA bids in 4 season, two, Number 2 seeds, A Big East regular season and conference championship, and has made the Semi's of the Big East tournament 3 out of 4 years.
Program hits a speed bump and 90% of Scoop are bitching about the guy who accomplished the above. It's a sad reflection on the die hard MU fanbase.
Things aren't great right now, but FFS Shaka should get some slack to get it sorted out even if it takes a couple of years, based on the first 4 he delivered.
Buddy - we've been hitting "speed bumps" since last January. Anyone with one eye and half a brain could see a train wreck coming this year.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:06:45 AMSays the guy who had his head so far up Wojo's A$$ for 5 years. Can't make it up! Let's dog the coach who came into MU after a 10 year NCAA tournament win drought, and took over for the 83rd ranked Steve Wojo squad - and delivers 4 NCAA bids in 4 season, two, Number 2 seeds, A Big East regular season and conference championship, and has made the Semi's of the Big East tournament 3 out of 4 years.
Program hits a speed bump and 90% of Scoop are bitching about the guy who accomplished the above. It's a sad reflection on the die hard MU fanbase.
Things aren't great right now, but FFS Shaka should get some slack to get it sorted out even if it takes a couple of years, based on the first 4 he delivered.
A couple of years? What does "get it sorted out" look like to you? By the way, that's quite the different standard than post-Maryland when you insisted this was still a bubble team.
The fact is that this slide started last year...against Dayton ironically. And the recruiting misses have been pretty obvious dating back to then. Look a the junior and sophomore class right now. You have one decent player in Zaide. Parham is basically the guy he was last year, but he's a rotational guy at least. Damarious can't play. Tre gives you some decent defense, but is a void offensively. Caedin may not even be a D1 level player.
You have to have your head in the sand not to realize it's pretty bleak. Especially since there is a method where you can fix your roster immediately these days.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 08:06:30 AMI would suggest that Norman is not a huge worry. He's big and long. Defends very well. Creates turnovers. And he's not playing all that much anyway
The problem is that the team is so devoid of consistent offense that you can "hide" him on that side of the floor. Two years ago, you could have easily put this version of Norman in as a 10-12 mpg sub for Stevie and you would have been fine. But now you have to put the ball in his hands too much because...well...who else are you counting on?
I agree. Outside of his turnovers he's probably been the most improved player from last year.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:06:45 AMSays the guy who had his head so far up Wojo's A$$ for 5 years. Can't make it up! Let's dog the coach who came into MU after a 10 year NCAA tournament win drought, and took over for the 83rd ranked Steve Wojo squad - and delivers 4 NCAA bids in 4 season, two, Number 2 seeds, A Big East regular season and conference championship, and has made the Semi's of the Big East tournament 3 out of 4 years.
Program hits a speed bump and 90% of Scoop are bitching about the guy who accomplished the above. It's a sad reflection on the die hard MU fanbase.
Things aren't great right now, but FFS Shaka should get some slack to get it sorted out even if it takes a couple of years, based on the first 4 he delivered.
I'm not sure how you're able to breathe with Shaka's meat so far down your throat.
It's okay to give Shaka some time to figure this out, but he is certainly the guy who should be getting the bulk of the criticism.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 08:16:54 AMI'm not sure how you're able to breathe with Shaka's meat so far down your throat.
It's okay to give Shaka some time to figure this out, but he is certainly the guy who should be getting the bulk of the criticism.
I'd rather give some grace to a guy like Shaka who has accomplished far more in his head coaching career, and at MU, than a guy like Wojo. Ironically, you and many of the Scoopers who are throwing Shaka under the bus for a rough start to Year 5 had Wojo's meat rammed down your throats gleefully for 5 years and he'd accomplished dick.
It's also concerning that this is the time of year the continuity should have its largest advantage. Plus, the teams we are losing to aren't top tier teams.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:23:20 AMI'd rather give some grace to a guy like Shaka who has accomplished far more in his head coaching career, and at MU, than a guy like Wojo. Ironically, you and many of the Scoopers who are throwing Shaka under the bus for a rough start to Year 5 had Wojo's meat rammed down your throats gleefully for 5 years and he'd accomplished dick.
Oh, I don't disagree. Anyone saying Shaka should be fired is just unhinged. He will, however, need to reevaluate what he is doing, and changes will need to be made. Those changes are up to him, of course, but they need to have an impact. Wojo didn't change, and the door was shown. I have much more faith in Shaka's ability to problem solve, but he will need to be more flexible in his philosophy.
I'm guessing that if things don't drastically improve next year he will be on the hot seat in a big time prove it year.
If the defense for Shaka right now is "he isn't Wojo," then we're effed.
Wojo isn't the bar, guys.
Quote from: Mutaman on November 19, 2025, 10:48:21 PMI'm confused about something: when Shaka got here the first thing he did was convince Kolik and Prosper to transfer into the program. After striking gold using this method, why did he suddenly decide to stop pursuing transfers? I don't get it.
He's made RGV a brand, HIS brand. The main banner on the Spirit Shop's website is for the "RVG Collection" and there are six pages of RGV branded gear, including hats, pint glasses, and car magnets. Never mind that, as you mentioned, his best player, the driver to the first outright conference title for MU since 2003 and first conference tourney title in 1997, was a transfer. But forget about that, there's too much invested in RVG.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:06:45 AMThings aren't great right now,
All insults aside, that's really the problem. Last night felt and looked awful. I'm pretty sure Grant even helped Marquette at the end by having Bennett out there, he looked bad too.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 20, 2025, 08:33:14 AMAll insults aside, that's really the problem. Last night felt and looked awful. I'm pretty sure Grant even helped Marquette at the end by having Bennett out there, he looked bad too.
100%
Quote from: Pakuni on November 20, 2025, 08:30:46 AMIf the defense for Shaka right now is "he isn't Wojo," then we're effed.
Wojo isn't the bar, guys.
What part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
No one is doubting what he has accomplished. They are doubting that if his way can sustain moving forward because the landscape is significantly different.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
Better cherish those accomplishments. Not happening anytime soon if the roster philosophy doesn't change.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 20, 2025, 08:33:14 AMAll insults aside, that's really the problem. Last night felt and looked awful. I'm pretty sure Grant even helped Marquette at the end by having Bennett out there, he looked bad too.
Yes, things aren't great right now. We can all agree on that. It just strikes me as petty, and ungrateful, that our passionate Scoop fanbase is bitching about Shaka after what he's done here in 4 years.
Shaka's a bright guy. He will get it sorted out. It may take a year or two, but it will get resolved.
Last night was ugly, but I still feel this team will be one that improves over the course of the year, versus the one that faded last season.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
One Sweet 16 and one conference title in 5 years should be the minimum expectation for a program like MU, not a lifetime pass from legitimate criticism.
An NCAA tournament seed is meaningless if you don't take advantage of it. Rather be an 11 and make the Sweet 16 than be a 2 and exit over the first weekend.
Ners wants us to just be grateful for shaka, and the learning experience he gave the players last night!
I've been to a final four too, pretty awesome experience. Now, stop being ungrateful for me.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 08:39:25 AMBetter cherish those accomplishments. Not happening anytime soon if the roster philosophy doesn't change.
Except Shaka's recruiting classes are getting better year over year. He's adding shooters - Phillips, Millecic, Nash Walker - and Sheek and Egbouno are his two highest rated recruits.
And, I do think Shaka will adjust and grab a transfer when it makes sense and the dollars work.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:47:14 AMExcept Shaka's recruiting classes are getting better year over year. He's adding shooters - Phillips, Millecic, Nash Walker - and Sheek and Egbouno are his two highest rated recruits.
And, I do think Shaka will adjust and grab a transfer when it makes sense and the dollars work.
I'll believe it when I see it. His high school talent evaluation is suspect.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 20, 2025, 08:43:11 AMOne Sweet 16 and one conference title in 5 years should be the minimum expectation for a program like MU, not a lifetime pass from legitimate criticism.
An NCAA tournament seed is meaningless if you don't take advantage of it. Rather be an 11 and make the Sweet 16 than be a 2 and exit over the first weekend.
Dude - Marquette isn't a Top 10 program, especially now in the era of pay for play players.
Shaka came into a train wreck and delivered great results. We hit a speed bump this year, and spoiled Scoopers were turning into toddlers 3 games into Season 5.
I feel you can still promote RGV with sprinkling in some transfers. We've put two guys in the pros that were transfers.
Also, if that's the big recruiting advantage, I'm not sure we are reaping the benefits of it based on what looks to be some recruiting misses over the last few years.
Man you're dumb.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:51:19 AMDude - Marquette isn't a Top 10 program, especially now in the era of pay for play players.
Shaka came into a train wreck and delivered great results. We hit a speed bump this year, and spoiled Scoopers were turning into toddlers 3 games into Season 5.
How did he turn around the program so quickly?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
What does any of that have to do with what's on the court right now? This is not working. When is the last time we were out of at-large consideration before Thanksgiving?
Shaka has had some great moments, but the red flags right now are the same types of signs you saw early on with Wojo, but you're choosing not to see it.
We all want this to work, but it isn't.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 08:55:34 AMHow did he turn around the program so quickly?
You didn't have to pay $1M to retain (or attract) players like Kolek and Kam in 2021-2022. Market shifted rapidly. We are a small, private school with alumni size (access of money) of roughly 20% of the Power 4 conference schools.
Do you think Duke was able to pay Kon more than MU? Not to mention MU doesn't hold a candle to Duke as a basketball school.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:51:19 AMDude - Marquette isn't a Top 10 program, especially now in the era of pay for play players.
Shaka came into a train wreck and delivered great results. We hit a speed bump this year, and spoiled Scoopers were turning into toddlers 3 games into Season 5.
Dude - making one Sweet 16 every five years doesn't mean you're a top 10 program. It means you're on par with Xavier or Texas A&M.
The funny thing is you're not even disagreeing with any of the criticism. You're just mad that anyone dares to speak it.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:51:19 AMDude - Marquette isn't a Top 10 program, especially now in the era of pay for play players.
Shaka came into a train wreck and delivered great results. We hit a speed bump this year, and spoiled Scoopers were turning into toddlers 3 games into Season 5.
We have played 3 non-cupcake games. Lost all of them. Looked bad in all of them. The Marquette team I have been watching won't beat Oklahoma. They won't beat Wisconsin. They won't beat Purdue. That makes a 5-6 non-con.
In conference play, 6-14 feels reasonable. That's a 20-loss season. You know the last time Marquette lost 20 games in a season? 1964. I think it's reasonable for fans to be frustrated that the coach is married to a roster-building strategy that he has proven incapable of executing successfully.
It's early. Maybe we turn it around. I hope we do. I just haven't seen anything to support that.
In the RGV system, if players are being told they won't be recruited over, what is the incentive for them to get better, outside of their post-college professional career prospects? In the real world, if someone isn't performing at their job, they'll be shown the door. This whole philosophy of "we will stick by you no matter what" isn't the way the real world (or big-time college and pro sports) works and treating the players in this way is actually doing them a disservice.
We didnt pay that to recruit Kolek and Kam here, but we sure did pay that to retain them for their last couple of years.
The program has the money, especially with the new rev share rules. Who it's being spent on, if at all, great question.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:04:48 AMYou didn't have to pay $1M to retain (or attract) players like Kolek and Kam in 2021-2022. Market shifted rapidly. We are a small, private school with alumni size (access of money) of roughly 20% of the Power 4 conference schools.
Do you think Duke was able to pay Kon more than MU? Not to mention MU doesn't hold a candle to Duke as a basketball school.
Ah. So now we're crying poor.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 08:59:52 AMWhat does any of that have to do with what's on the court right now? This is not working. When is the last time we were out of at-large consideration before Thanksgiving?
Shaka has had some great moments, but the red flags right now are the same types of signs you saw early on with Wojo, but you're choosing not to see it.
We all want this to work, but it isn't.
Shaka is infinitely more capable and bright than Wojo. He will get it turned around. As ugly as the start to this season has been, I still think the team will show improvement going forward.
I also think another year of experience and lineup next year of Nigel, Adrien, Zaide, Royce, Sheek/Clark/Hamilton with some great shooters off the bench in Phillips, Walker, Ian - and a physical guard like Egbouno is a roster I can get excited about.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 20, 2025, 09:08:57 AMWe didnt pay that to recruit Kolek and Kam here, but we sure did pay that to retain them for their last couple of years.
The program has the money, especially with the new rev share rules. Who it's being spent on, if at all, great question.
Correct, this was the point. You tie up $1M to retain guys like Kam and Kolek - you think there's another $1M bag at a school like MU (the last few years) to drop for an impact big man? While also trying to retain guys like Chase Ross, Stevie, Royce, etc?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:04:48 AMYou didn't have to pay $1M to retain (or attract) players like Kolek and Kam in 2021-2022. Market shifted rapidly. We are a small, private school with alumni size (access of money) of roughly 20% of the Power 4 conference schools.
Do you think Duke was able to pay Kon more than MU? Not to mention MU doesn't hold a candle to Duke as a basketball school.
We lose to duke on the recruiting trail before nil is in place and while nil is in place 98% of the time.
The idea you need to pay huge money in the portal is simply not true. How much is butler paying for a guy like Ajayi? How much is providence paying for a guy like Jason Edwards. It ain't even $500k.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 09:10:13 AMAh. So now we're crying poor.
The refusal to hit the transfer portal, the RGV nonstop stuff, building a lasting program of 4 year players etc.
All of that could be a smokescreen for "we cant compete in the free agency"
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 20, 2025, 09:08:57 AMWe didnt pay that to recruit Kolek and Kam here, but we sure did pay that to retain them for their last couple of years.
The program has the money, especially with the new rev share rules. Who it's being spent on, if at all, great question.
MU is not flush with money. The revenue share only works if you have the revenue. What we get from BE and TV deals for the most part supports the entire Athletic department. Universities the are active in the portal have large donors dropping some serious money into the pot. For example, SJU has one billionaire dropping big money.
Send in some checks to the Excellence Fund.
Quote from: #UnleashNigel on November 20, 2025, 09:19:09 AMThe refusal to hit the transfer portal, the RGV nonstop stuff, building a lasting program of 4 year players etc.
All of that could be a smokescreen for "we cant compete in the free agency"
Donors privately bought out wojo's contract on short notice. The money is there. Ignoring the portal is purely a Shaka choice
Got the annual company matching email for MU donations this AM. Looking into terms and conditions
Quote from: Pakuni on November 20, 2025, 09:07:36 AMDude - making one Sweet 16 every five years doesn't mean you're a top 10 program. It means you're on par with Xavier or Texas A&M.
The funny thing is you're not even disagreeing with any of the criticism. You're just mad that anyone dares to speak it.
There hasn't been a coach who could do much better at MU in 5 years since Al, than what Shaka has done - except Buzz. And of course the self righteous Scoopers couldn't handle that there were some off court incidents with Buzz's players. Not to mention, prior to Shaka there wasn't an easy way/above board way to pay for players at all schools - so Shaka faces a landscape at MU that none of his predecessors had to navigate.
You guys can criticize away - knock yourselves out. You just look like spoiled toddlers in the process. At the first sign of adversity in 5 years many Scoopers are throwing in the towel on this team and coach - that to me is a crapty fanbase.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:23:29 AMThere hasn't been a coach who could do much better at MU in 5 years since Al, than what Shaka has done - except Buzz. And of course the self righteous Scoopers couldn't handle that there were some off court incidents with Buzz's players. Not to mention, prior to Shaka there wasn't an easy way/above board way to pay for players at all schools - so Shaka faces a landscape at MU that none of his predecessors had to navigate.
You guys can criticize away - knock yourselves out. You just look like spoiled toddlers in the process. At the first sign of adversity in 5 years many Scoopers are throwing in the towel on this team and coach - that to me is a crapty fanbase.
*not the first sign of adversity. See second half of season last year
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 09:21:48 AMDonors privately bought out wojo's contract on short notice. The money is there. Ignoring the portal is purely a Shaka choice
The money was there.... For a one time payoff, and even that took a couple years of wading through wojos crap.
This is now a pay that amount every year thing.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:23:29 AMThere hasn't been a coach who could do much better at MU in 5 years since Al, than what Shaka has done - except Buzz. And of course the self righteous Scoopers couldn't handle that there were some off court incidents with Buzz's players. Not to mention, prior to Shaka there wasn't an easy way/above board way to pay for players at all schools - so Shaka faces a landscape at MU that none of his predecessors had to navigate.
You guys can criticize away - knock yourselves out. You just look like spoiled toddlers in the process. At the first sign of adversity in 5 years many Scoopers are throwing in the towel on this team and coach - that to me is a crapty fanbase.
Choose different language to describe people being outraged of our coach tolerating sexual assault.
Quote from: #UnleashNigel on November 20, 2025, 09:29:29 AMThe money was there.... For a one time payoff, and even that took a couple years of wading through wojos crap.
This is now a pay that amount every year thing.
Wrong
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:06:45 AMThings aren't great right now, but FFS Shaka should get some slack to get it sorted out even if it takes a couple of years, based on the first 4 he delivered.
This is how I feel. I think it takes a couple years. Shaka has proven he will practice what he preaches over the last few years, recruits are responding to that, if we are in the Final Four in four years, I'd say he has proven the model. I think we get there. His philosophy should methodically improve the talent year over year, and I think we see that in a couple years.
Quote from: #UnleashNigel on November 20, 2025, 09:34:00 AMOkay. How?
Funds were secured following the meeting when wojo refused to change his staff. This happened in a matter of a few days.
Marquette crying poor is a completely manufactured stance from this coaching staff. We will never compete or pay for the million dollar player, nor should we. But it is incredibly disingenuous to say we don't have money when programs in our conference with less resources are finding great players in the portal.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:23:29 AMThere hasn't been a coach who could do much better at MU in 5 years since Al, than what Shaka has done - except Buzz. And of course the self righteous Scoopers couldn't handle that there were some off court incidents with Buzz's players.
If being upset that a player / players were accused of sexual assault, and having the coach inserting himself into the investigation inappropriately makes me self-righteous, then f*ck yeah I'm self-righteous.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:23:29 AMThere hasn't been a coach who could do much better at MU in 5 years since Al, than what Shaka has done - except Buzz. And of course the self righteous Scoopers couldn't handle that there were some off court incidents with Buzz's players. Not to mention, prior to Shaka there wasn't an easy way/above board way to pay for players at all schools - so Shaka faces a landscape at MU that none of his predecessors had to navigate.
You guys can criticize away - knock yourselves out. You just look like spoiled toddlers in the process. At the first sign of adversity in 5 years many Scoopers are throwing in the towel on this team and coach - that to me is a crapty fanbase.
I admire your admiration of Shaka and in the past you have made reference to him utilizing the name "God" in your posts. Any critique of Shaka by this board's members have resulted in your vitriol hatred of them, calling them now a crapty fanbase. Thats not a fair assumption, most everyone is just a passionate fan and each has their own opinions. Your sensitivity towards any critical comments are extreme to say the least.
Also, why do you, on a consistent basis, when anyone does criticize Shaka, do you bring up Wojo as part of your response? He has been gone for five years and has nothing to do with the current administration, roster construction and the outcome of the games.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 09:39:59 AMFunds were secured following the meeting when wojo refused to change his staff. This happened in a matter of a few days.
Always find it hard to believe that Wojo actually had a pathway to retain his job. The only thing he had to do was agree to replace Jake Presutti? Or not to promote one of the graduate assistants to an assistant coach? I think they even had an opening if I remember correctly.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 09:25:34 AM*not the first sign of adversity. See second half of season last year
And WTF was Shaka supposed to do second half of last season? Go to the portal? (Which is the end all be all solution for all of you hating on Shaka and our program at present.)
Though it may seem highly unlikely, could it not be possible that this year is the exact inverse of last year? Where this team starts like crap, but finishes strong? Last year Scoopers were riding high after Maryland, Purdue and Wisconsin last - did we see the 5 and 8 finish happening in the last 13 games of the year? Probably not. I'm hopeful this year could be the inverse despite the early evidence not looking good.
And, if we miss the NCAA this year, I'll still be 100% behind Shaka and the guys on the team - they are winners and will get it turned around.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:39:59 AMYes, things aren't great right now. We can all agree on that. It just strikes me as petty, and ungrateful, that our passionate Scoop fanbase is bitching about Shaka after what he's done here in 4 years.
Shaka's a bright guy. He will get it sorted out. It may take a year or two, but it will get resolved.
Last night was ugly, but I still feel this team will be one that improves over the course of the year, versus the one that faded last season.
Being an eternal optimist, I hope you're right. I like Shaka, and very much want him to succeed (as most Scoopers do), but it's also OK for fans to criticize the coach when warranted, and both his recruiting and in-game coaching have been exposed this season. I screamed myself hoarse last night watching Gold running around 40 feet from the basket, opening up the middle for Dayton dunks. And why does a team that can't shoot 3s keep firing up one 3 after another after another? And what was that last possession of regulation? Also, we simply don't have enough good players to compete at the level Marquette should be competing at; that is 100% on the coach.
I am miles away from saying fire the coach. I'm pretty sure Shaka has earned enough grace to have ... um ... "developing" teams this season and next. But if MU hasn't shown the improvement we all want, he then will be squarely on the hot seat, and that's never pretty. Fans are already starting to make derisive chants. "Fire Shaka" will not play well. So again, here's hoping you're right and that my optimism isn't misplaced.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
He accomplished those things with transfers and Wojo leftovers doing all of the heavy lifting. There are no more of those players and the team looks bad now and the future doesn't look so good, either. That is a big cause for concern for me. I worry he won't be able to coach up what we have to anything good over the next few seasons. Don't think that is unreasonable.
Quote from: nyg on November 20, 2025, 09:46:34 AMI admire your admiration of Shaka and in the past you have made reference to him utilizing the name "God" in your posts. Any critique of Shaka by this board's members have resulted in your vitriol hatred of them, calling them now a crapty fanbase. Thats not a fair assumption, most everyone is just a passionate fan and each has their own opinions. Your sensitivity towards any critical comments are extreme to say the least.
Also, why do you, on a consistent basis, when anyone does criticize Shaka, do you bring up Wojo as part of your response? He has been gone for five years and has nothing to do with the current administration, roster construction and the outcome of the games.
Calling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech. That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.
Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation? Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.
Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now? It's crazy.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:04:48 AMYou didn't have to pay $1M to retain (or attract) players like Kolek and Kam in 2021-2022. Market shifted rapidly. We are a small, private school with alumni size (access of money) of roughly 20% of the Power 4 conference schools.
Do you think Duke was able to pay Kon more than MU? Not to mention MU doesn't hold a candle to Duke as a basketball school.
Butler was able to outbid Michigan and other P4 schools for Jalen Jackson (no. 15 player in the Portal at the time he committed to Butler, per 24/7). Do we have less money than Butler?
Do we have less than Creighton? Are we going to play little sisters of the poor now?
Also, it's not fiction that Shaka's best players were either transfers or all signed under Wojo. I'm starting to see some Deane parallels in terms of patterns of success as the roster turns over.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:10:27 AMShaka is infinitely more capable and bright than Wojo. He will get it turned around. As ugly as the start to this season has been, I still think the team will show improvement going forward.
I also think another year of experience and lineup next year of Nigel, Adrien, Zaide, Royce, Sheek/Clark/Hamilton with some great shooters off the bench in Phillips, Walker, Ian - and a physical guard like Egbouno is a roster I can get excited about.
This offense with these players doesn't work. We don't have the shooters to make the volume of contested threes we're taking, and we don't have the shot creators to provide better looks.
At the rim, we're 294th. These guys are not capable of scoring the basketball. How do you get +21 & +16 in FGA, dominate the offensive glass twice, and win turnovers twice yet lose consecutive games?
So now we're supposed to count on relationships and growth when it looks like 67% of this year's roster isn't going to make positive contributions? Why will it be better with upcoming classes than it's been with the inconsistency of seniors and the lack of development or outright regression of juniors and sophomores?
I chose to believe last year even though there were some big red flags. I chose to believe this year because I thought the system & coaching evaluation would deliver. But with our at-large hopes already over and no real hope of adding instant impact to replace Ben and Chase, my natural optimism isn't finding room to come through.
Where is the great MU and Shaka apologist Tower during this early season mess?
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 20, 2025, 09:53:21 AMHe accomplished those things with transfers and Wojo leftovers doing all of the heavy lifting. There are no more of those players and the team looks bad now and the future doesn't look so good, either. That is a big cause for concern for me. I worry he won't be able to coach up what we have to anything good over the next few seasons. Don't think that is unreasonable.
Guess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.) Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too). Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.
To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.
Quote from: Mu8891 on November 19, 2025, 10:18:47 PMShaka has created a mess. And, unfortunately he and MU have tripled down on it ...
In the last few weeks MU had a big story in their Alumni magazine about Shaka and his refusal to use the portal. Worse yet, the NYT wrote an article on the same topic.
It seems to me that he and MU (Kimo) are just SO in love with being holier than all of college hoops that they have backed themselves into a serious corner.
This team is Shaka's , and the team is flat out terrible. He's assembled a roster that has ( at most ) four or five BE caliber players; Ross, Gold, James and Zaide. After that ? Meh. Nothing
He wants the team to shoot tons of threes, but they CAN'T shoot ! They play no defense... they turn the ball over way too much... and oh - are so badly coached they can't get a shot off in 17 seconds!
I hope I'm wrong, but this is a .500 team at best. Likely worse.
And now what ? How does he change course? Or is he too stubborn? Does he change his mind and use the Portal?
The whole premise of outright refusal to use the portal is insane. For us to
" trust Shaka " means we have to believe that he's smarter than every other D1 coach. Really... think about that. He knows better than Hurley, Pitino, IZZO, etc etc
Did he not see this coming ? Does he think Hamilton is a BE center? Why is Tre still on the team ? And Owens? Just awful
Where does he go from here ?
Nice steal by Tre and some nice power moves by Hamilton.
But I have to agree, practicing much with same players that may have a set ceiling is not going to get you to the finish line.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:54:11 AMCalling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech. That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.
Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation? Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.
Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now? It's crazy.
that Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on November 20, 2025, 09:34:59 AMThis is how I feel. I think it takes a couple years. Shaka has proven he will practice what he preaches over the last few years, recruits are responding to that, if we are in the Final Four in four years, I'd say he has proven the model. I think we get there. His philosophy should methodically improve the talent year over year, and I think we see that in a couple years.
His philosophy has not improved the talent over the last few years which is kinda the crux of problem right now. Either he's not identifying the right talent, not developing the talent, or a combination of the two. If everyone is bought into his culture and they're just not performing, he needs to address it. If guys haven't bought into the culture, he needs to address it as well.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:59:45 AMGuess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.) Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too). Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.
To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.
This summer, every interview Shaka did, the first two guys he mentioned were Sean and Caedin. From the jump, it was clear NJ was the best PG on the roster and Caedin in year 3 still looks unplayable. 10,000 hook shots and he's taken what, one this year?
Repeatedly telling us how Caedin is the baddest player in the Big East and the successor to Oso is setting him up for failure. And if the staff really believed that stuff, that's incredibly alarming.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:54:11 AMCalling Shaka a "God" send is a figure of speech. That being said, I do feel MU hit the jackpot with him, and is very fortunate to have Shaka at the helm at this time in history in collegiate sports.
Why do I bring Wojo into the conversation? Because for the better part of 5 years, many of the Scoopers complaining about Shaka were preaching patience for Wojo, and suggesting he'd get it together - despite ANY evidence or skins on the wall that he was capable.
Juxtapose that against a guy in Shaka, who has a Final Four on his resume, and came into MU after the train wreck of Wojo, and has accomplished what he has accomplished - and the same Scoopers who were supportive of Wojo and preached patience do a 180 and crap on Shaka now? It's crazy.
Well, Shaka is not a God figure and maybe a bit over the top in your terminology. Again, I admire your obsession with him and MU hitting the jackpot. I like Shaka, he appears to be a nice guy, but his problem has been post regular season success. Yes, he has made the NCAATs, good for him, but as a two seed twice with four current NBA players, has sort of underperformed. Just like at Texas. This season is his and his alone and based upon the first six games, might be very difficult.
That being said, there will be abundant criticism and maybe you can provide you opinion in a civil manner and not continually bring up Wojo as part of your responses. He has nothing to do with the current team.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 09:57:41 AMThis offense with these players doesn't work. We don't have the shooters to make the volume of contested threes we're taking, and we don't have the shot creators to provide better looks.
At the rim, we're 294th. These guys are not capable of scoring the basketball. How do you get +21 & +16 in FGA, dominate the offensive glass twice, and win turnovers twice yet lose consecutive games?
So now we're supposed to count on relationships and growth when it looks like 67% of this year's roster isn't going to make positive contributions? Why will it be better with upcoming classes than it's been with the inconsistency of seniors and the lack of development or outright regression of juniors and sophomores?
I chose to believe last year even though there were some big red flags. I chose to believe this year because I thought the system & coaching evaluation would deliver. But with our at-large hopes already over and no real hope of adding instant impact to replace Ben and Chase, my natural optimism isn't finding room to come through.
I can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong. In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past. Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step. Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.
What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.
So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before. I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin. Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.
I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 10:02:57 AMthat Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.
Is he Tom Crean, 2.0?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:59:45 AMGuess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.) Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too). Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.
To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.
Oso was shut down for the season due to injuries and missed the final nine games of the season. He would have "floundered" under Shaka too under the same circumstances.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 10:08:32 AMI can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong. In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past. Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step. Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.
What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.
So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before. I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin. Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.
I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Sounds nice, sports fans are fickle when they see how much coaches and now players are being paid.
Quote from: nyg on November 20, 2025, 10:07:35 AMWell, Shaka is not a God figure and maybe a bit over the top in your terminology. Again, I admire your obsession with him and MU hitting the jackpot. I like Shaka, he appears to be a nice guy, but his problem has been post regular season success. Yes, he has made the NCAATs, good for him, but as a two seed twice with four current NBA players, has sort of underperformed. Just like at Texas. This season is his and his alone and based upon the first six games, might be very difficult.
That being said, there will be abundant criticism and maybe you can provide you opinion in a civil manner and not continually bring up Wojo as part of your responses. He has nothing to do with the current team.
What part of my posts hasn't been civil? And as for involving Wojo, I just would ask that those taking shots at Shaka, evaluate why they were willing to give Wojo 5 years before being critical, when Wojo had accomplished very little, particularly as compared to Shaka?
If only we had this level of hatred when wojo was coach!
But yes, Im pretty nervous that all of shakas best players were transfers or wojo recruits. Seems that no one other then chase has developed.
Gold continues to drive me nuts with his absolute refusal to shoot the ball
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 10:08:32 AMI just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Sadly, I don't see this happening. I don't think fans feel much connection at all to this group. That was one of Shaka's big things. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Shaka Shuttle out of service for the rest of this year.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 10:08:32 AMI can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong. In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past. Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step. Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.
What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.
So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before. I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin. Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.
I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Take the freshmen out of the equation for now (Nigel looks solid).
Ben's rebounding is what improved the most. He's still a first big off the bench type of player at best. The lack of depth up front is brutal. Hamilto had a redshirt year and another year to earn playing time and now slots in at starting center by default. He may not be able to cut it in the Horizon league. The fact that Clark doesn't even get a shot over him is also telling. Was really hoping Parham would be a lot more steady and reliable (and as a starter).
Zaide and Tre had enough time and opportunities - they have "done it before." Lowery looks OK. Tre's another Horizon league hopeful.
Currently - 1 true (healthy) PG who is a frosh. Barely any talent up front. Not a single knock down shooter. Hard to close out and win games with those glaring issues.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 10:02:57 AMthat Final Four was 14 years ago and he was run off from his next job at Texas. He's done some great things at MU, but the trajectory is concerning, especially being unable to capitalize on the momentum of the Big East titles and two consecutive #2 seeds.
His teams weren't really able to capitalize on the #2 seeds in those tournaments, either. One Sweet 16 and 0 wins against single-digit seeded teams is underachieving when you're seeded as a top-8 team both years.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:59:45 AMGuess we'll see. Shaka did recruit Oso heavily while he was at Texas (recognized his talent/potential.) Oso of course floundered under Wojo his first year - so maybe Shaka is able to coach guys up (like Kam and Stevie too). Kolek improved a ton under his time as a player with Shaka as coach.
To suggest Shaka can't develop players is pretty suspect in my opinion.
Kam essentially was who he was when he left. Wojo could've coached him to the same level of player. The other guys I'll give you but you also can't ignore there's a ton of busts, improvement but low ceiling, and regressions
Outside of the guys you named plus Chase, and Zaide who has improved?
Ben's pretty much the same player with more rebounds. Every other guy on the roster either improved but is in over their head (Hamilton, Clark) regressed (Sean in limited time, Parham, Owens), or is seemingly a bust (Tre)
I think We saw investment in Kolek/Oso/Kam/Stevie/Jop at the expense of pretty much the whole future. Omax left, Jop slid to his role and Chase slid in there. Now we're a few years down the road and who's the only guy that's a day in and day out threat? Everyone else, to your point, is being asked to take a massive leap and isn't answering the call.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 08:59:52 AMWhat does any of that have to do with what's on the court right now? This is not working. When is the last time we were out of at-large consideration before Thanksgiving?
Shaka has had some great moments, but the red flags right now are the same types of signs you saw early on with Wojo, but you're choosing not to see it.
We all want this to work, but it isn't.
Except Wojo didn't have 4 consecutive years of high-level success. It's not a relevant comparison, IMO.
That being said, the current results are not remotely acceptable and Shaka needs to figure it out.
Quote from: Nutty on November 20, 2025, 10:33:11 AMHis teams weren't really able to capitalize on the #2 seeds in those tournaments, either. One Sweet 16 and 0 wins against single-digit seeded teams is underachieving when you're seeded as a top-8 team both years.
I'm not going to bemoan losing to MSU in 2023, especially with Kolek less than 100% and Izzo on the other sideline, but that NC State game was inexcusable.
Last year's drop off after starting out wins over Purdue (blowout), @ Maryland (closer than it should have been but a clutch win), Bucky (14 points), and Creighton is what is more concerning. We lost 4 of our last five, with that win being a 2-point win against Xavier, a First Four team.
This shouldn't be a Wojo v. Shaka debate, there is no debate there. The issue is the ligitmate concern about the trajectory of the program.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 20, 2025, 10:54:32 AMExcept Wojo didn't have 4 consecutive years of high-level success. It's not a relevant comparison, IMO.
That being said, the current results are not remotely acceptable and Shaka needs to figure it out.
I mean neither did Shaka. Shakas had two years of high level success, two years of acceptable standard. Even Wojo had that (the couple years of acceptable standard not high level success)
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 08:36:24 AMWhat part of Sweet 16, two NCAA Tournament 2 seeds, 4 out of 4 seasons in the NCAA, a Big East Regular and Conference Tournament title didn't you understand? Not to mention he's been to a Final Four.
Elon, I am with you but and it's a big BUT, there was a ton of talent that was on that team first year at MU. Shaka's transfers and the returning players and recruits that stayed were all REALLY good. Some second tier NBA level good. Kudos to Shaka for bringing, or at least retaining, that type of talent to MU.
I said before the season that this would have been Shaka's greatest coaching job at MU if he got this team to the tournament and got hammered for it. People thought the RG part would wipe away what we were seeing from our reserve players.
Unfortunately, you have to be really freaking talented for the RG portion to turn into V. There are no ridiculously talented but raw basketball players on our team besides NJ. I don't mention Ross because he is the polished version of himself.
Shaka was blessed for 4 years with a loaded roster and we thought it was good coaching. Some of it was but most of it was raw second tier NBA talent that needed guidance to excel. Shaka provided that but he did not back fill the roster with even mid tier D-1 talent let alone top tier D-1 talent or second tier NBA talent.
Unfortunately, the talent problem was, in part, a product of his own success. There were no starting spots open for YEARS. Big time talent does not wait. They go somewhere else.
He needed to see the lack of talent coming and go to the portal this off season to keep the train rolling. He also could have taken the opportunity to supplement his last two rosters and you may have been talking a final four instead of a sweet sixteen.
KYP. He didn't and now he has to work with this group just to stay out of the bottom tier of the conference.
Here's hoping the last two recruiting classes are part of the solution.
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 20, 2025, 10:20:48 AMSadly, I don't see this happening. I don't think fans feel much connection at all to this group.
Hate to say it, but it feels like there's some truth to this.
Fans tend not to get behind losing teams, which is obviously part of the problem here. But I think fans, especially at the college level, will cut some slack/grace to a team that's coming up short if they're playing hard and smart. I'm not seeing that from a lot of these guys. Zaide watching a ball roll around at his feet while Dayton players dove on the floor for it is emblematic of what we're seeing too often. We don't take care of the ball, are slow to help on defense, are soft at the rim on both ends, aren't diving for loose balls and don't seem to have a killer instinct (up 9 with less than 8 to play last night, lose; watch Maryland's best player leave on a stretcher, get outscored 49-35 the rest of the game).
Outside of Chase and Nigel, not a lot of regular EGBs from this group.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 09:39:59 AMFunds were secured following the meeting when wojo refused to change his staff. This happened in a matter of a few days.
Marquette crying poor is a completely manufactured stance from this coaching staff. We will never compete or pay for the million dollar player, nor should we. But it is incredibly disingenuous to say we don't have money when programs in our conference with less resources are finding great players in the portal.
Those "great players" in the portal are leading those Big East teams to similar results as Marquette is having right now...
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 10:08:32 AMI can appreciate your sentiments here, and you're not wrong. In my view, though, only Chase and Ben have played major roles in the past. Chase largely has improved his game/taken a step. Ben is pretty much neutral with last year, but serviceable.
What we are dealing with is waiting for guys who have never done it before (Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin, Tre, Owens), to be able to take a next step.
So, while we have great roster continuity, we really only had 2 guys who had done it before. I still feel we will see progress with all of Zaide, Royce, Nigel, Adrien, Caedin. Tre may have played his best game at MU last night.
I just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Nailed it
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 10:08:32 AMI just think our fans should be rallying behind these guys and this coach, instead of crapping all over them.
Huh.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:10:27 AMShaka is infinitely more capable and bright than Wojo. He will get it turned around. As ugly as the start to this season has been, I still think the team will show improvement going forward.
I also think another year of experience and lineup next year of Nigel, Adrien, Zaide, Royce, Sheek/Clark/Hamilton with some great shooters off the bench in Phillips, Walker, Ian - and a physical guard like Egbouno is a roster I can get excited about.
Really hope you are right. This next wave of talent has to be better. Zaide unfortunately is almost his polished version. Parham and Hamilton are still unfinished products. Hoping the Sophs, red shirt Frosh and true frosh are truly talented.
TRGV. The T needs to come before all of it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 10:04:13 AMThis summer, every interview Shaka did, the first two guys he mentioned were Sean and Caedin. From the jump, it was clear NJ was the best PG on the roster and Caedin in year 3 still looks unplayable. 10,000 hook shots and he's taken what, one this year?
Repeatedly telling us how Caedin is the baddest player in the Big East and the successor to Oso is setting him up for failure. And if the staff really believed that stuff, that's incredibly alarming.
A lot of coaches do this with a lot of players. Trying to build self confidence by speaking highly of players is done by coaches in all sports at all levels. If you really expected Sean and Caedin to be our two best players because of what Shaka said to the media while he was silent on Chase and Ben that's more on you.
I have to say that following this thread is pretty interesting. Why is anyone still talking about Wojo and what is the point of still ragging about him? In the first place his tenure at MU was not terrible not matter howmany times you say so, how about just get over it and your own biases. As for this team and this season I really did expect more but I didn't wxpect too much. This team has good talent. If you look at production per minutes played, Hamilton and Parham are pretty solid although some how seem lacking. I think the problem mostly is that Smart is trying to coach the team he wants instead of coaching the team he has. Hamilton is a back to the basket center, he should never be more that 6' away fron the rim on offense, Smart coaches every big man as it it is Osso. None of them are. Let Hamilton set up on the blocks to get off the hook shot. Gold has to take more shots more often and from deep. Make the shooter shoot. On defense Gold has shown to be the best rim protrector they have and his rebounding is very good. Overall I'd say this team just needs time to jell,they are pretty young but I see progress. For now I'm guessing maybe 6 and 5 in the nonconverence and possibly 10 and 10 in the Big East. NIT perhaps and be way better next year for the trouble. Mostly I thin Shaka needs to curb his ego and help the players become who they are and not try to make them who he wants them to be. Perhaps also recruit to needs of the team and not to a type of player to mold. Just my opinion. GO WARRIOS
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:07:10 AMThose "great players" in the portal are leading those Big East teams to similar results as Marquette is having right now...
Maybe, but that response does not address the post's assertion that MU can afford it.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:18:30 AMA lot of coaches do this with a lot of players. Trying to build self confidence by speaking highly of players is done by coaches in all sports at all levels. If you really expected Sean and Caedin to be our two best players because of what Shaka said to the media while he was silent on Chase and Ben that's more on you.
Was it unreasonable, after hearing months of praise from the coach, to expect Sean and Caedin to not be borderline bad?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:18:30 AMA lot of coaches do this with a lot of players. Trying to build self confidence by speaking highly of players is done by coaches in all sports at all levels. If you really expected Sean and Caedin to be our two best players because of what Shaka said to the media while he was silent on Chase and Ben that's more on you.
When you have the likes of Rothstein tweeting out about Caedin's "massive transformation," that's well more than simply trying to lift a guy's confidence.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 11:23:26 AMWhen you have the likes of Rothstein tweeting out about Caedin's "massive transformation," that's well more than simply trying to lift a guy's confidence.
That's just Rothstein tweeting after making a phone call to the coaches office at Marquette.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:18:30 AMA lot of coaches do this with a lot of players. Trying to build self confidence by speaking highly of players is done by coaches in all sports at all levels. If you really expected Sean and Caedin to be our two best players because of what Shaka said to the media while he was silent on Chase and Ben that's more on you.
I don't think that is true on any level of sports coaching, or at least by good coaches. Artificially creating unreal expectation for a player is a terrible thing for a coach to do. I think Shaka genuinely saw significant improvement that has not translated to actual performance. But no coach hits 100% on player evaluation.
I agree with those who noted that this is not a portal issue. This is a talent assessment issue. I have no problem recruiting a kid like Hamilton, but to do so only with the thought that he will be a backup. The same is true of Clark. Planning on them to become starting BE level centers was reckless. Amadou and Itejere were clear misses. Neither the junior nor the sophomore class looks great, with freshmen already surpassing them.
On top of that, the recruits do not fit the offensive system. My criticism of Wojo was that his recruiting was haphazard because he did not have a system and it's bad policy to try to change systems annually to match players on the roster. Shaka has a system but has recruited too many guys who do not fit. Nevada Smith's offense is based on shooting 3s at a reasonable level and MU has recruited the gang that couldn't shoot. Shaka must believe that guys can be taught to shoot and that belief has been misplaced. I am doubtful whether coaching at this stage of a players career can regularly turn bad shooters into good shooters, but it is clear that no one on the current staff can do it.
The portal might be the fastest way to correct for some weak classes, but I think the approach could have worked by better recruiting.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 11:28:54 AMThat's just Rothstein tweeting after making a phone call to the coaches office at Marquette.
That's my point. Saying Caedin has had a "massive transformation," clearly came from someone in the program. That claim was obviously an extreme exaggeration, and not merely about lifting his confidence.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 20, 2025, 11:31:39 AMI don't think that is true on any level of sports coaching, or at least by good coaches. Artificially creating unreal expectation for a player is a terrible thing for a coach to do. I think Shaka genuinely saw significant improvement that has not translated to actual performance. But no coach hits 100% on player evaluation.
Yep.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 20, 2025, 10:59:41 AMThere are no ridiculously talented but raw basketball players on our team besides NJ.
I understand that some may have given up, but for me I still am holding onto hope re: D-Owens. Not sure raw is the right word, but there's talent there.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:07:10 AMThose "great players" in the portal are leading those Big East teams to similar results as Marquette is having right now...
Edwards would slot in as our second best guard and ajayi has a pulse so he would be our best big.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 20, 2025, 10:54:32 AMExcept Wojo didn't have 4 consecutive years of high-level success. It's not a relevant comparison, IMO.
That being said, the current results are not remotely acceptable and Shaka needs to figure it out.
No, Wojo had 4-1/2 years of progressive escalating success. Year one bad. Year two better but not good enough. Year three right side of the bubble. Year four wrong side of the bubble, but clear defensive flaws. Year five, top-10 team and had 3 chances to clinch the Big East but the wheels fell off.
At the end of year five, even his supporters (myself included) were ready to jump ship, but acknowledged you couldn't fire a guy coming off a 5-seed. And then we had a pandemic.
Shaka escalated faster and reached higher heights, but like Wojo saw a downturn in success after losing his first two golden geese. Wojo went from a 5 to a 9 losing the Hausers, Shaka went from a 2 to a 7 losing TK/Oso. The year after, Wojo lost Markus and had a losing record. Shaka lost Kam and we have this.
Shaka is a better coach & did far more than Wojo did, but if you compare 2017-21 and 2022-present, the escalation and decline has some parallels but at different levels.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 20, 2025, 11:37:32 AMI understand that some may have given up, but for me I still am holding onto hope re: D-Owens. Not sure raw is the right word, but there's talent there.
I hope you are right JB. This would help immensely to turn things around. But that last wave of talent showed significantly more upside year 2 (Big East Championship upside). J Lewis the year before did the same.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:18:30 AMA lot of coaches do this with a lot of players. Trying to build self confidence by speaking highly of players is done by coaches in all sports at all levels. If you really expected Sean and Caedin to be our two best players because of what Shaka said to the media while he was silent on Chase and Ben that's more on you.
I know you are given to hyperbole and extremes, but the point wasn't that they should be better than Chase & Ben but that if you're talking them up, they should at least be net positive players. That really hasn't been the case.
To date, Marquette is better on offense and defense when Sean is off vs on, and the same is the case for Caedin. And if they're not ready to be net positive players, fine, but don't tell everyone you can that they are ready to be impact guys. It's setting them up for failure.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 11:23:26 AMWhen you have the likes of Rothstein tweeting out about Caedin's "massive transformation," that's well more than simply trying to lift a guy's confidence.
If you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.
Quote from: MU82 on November 20, 2025, 11:23:19 AMWas it unreasonable, after hearing months of praise from the coach, to expect Sean and Caedin to not be borderline bad?
We saw 3 games, 2 against low majors, of Sean playing his first minutes back from a major injury. Probably wasn't going to be all conference, but I'd guess he would've been better than "borderline bad" had he stayed healthy. Unfortunately that's not in the cards for him this year.
Caedin? Yeah, I didn't expect him to be good. I watched him play last year. Shaka's fault is in relying on Caedin.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:54:26 AMIf you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.
Almost as crazy as Shaka relying on him as a resource to build players confidence. ::)
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:56:25 AMI'd guess he would've been better than "borderline bad" had he stayed healthy.
generous
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:54:26 AMIf you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.
You do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?
Perhaps, what is needed is a huge reset on expectations. Should we be looking at this as Shaka is in year one and not year five. RGV be dammed without the T.
Talented players simply won't come to MU to be stuck behind Kam, Stevie, Tyler, Oso, Omax, Jopli, Ross, etc.
Now Shaka can sell playing time, without even saying it out loud. Recruits will know they will play immediately if they are a part of the solution.
Shaka is a great representative of this University. He made things look easy with a confluence of high level players falling into his lap and a couple astute transfer pick ups.
Maybe, now, without those original players blocking the way to playing time, Shaka hits on more players than he misses on.
TRGV!!
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 12:01:53 PMYou do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?
I think Wades is in "scramble mode".
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 12:01:53 PMYou do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?
Correct! For a reason! Again, use what you saw yourself last year and understand that coaches aren't always going to come out and say, "Well, we have Chase Ross and Ben Gold, and after that we don't look good at all, John!"
Dan Hurley on Isaiah Abraham:
"'Isaiah, I think we felt like we had a guy coming in on a great trajectory and he's shown up,' Hurley said. 'Shown to be better. Sometimes the players are what you thought they are, little bit worse or better than you thought you were getting. He's better,' he followed."
Abraham left after 1 semester after playing 3.7 mpg in 9 games. Dan Hurley doesn't know how to evaluate talent, clearly.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 20, 2025, 12:02:54 PMPerhaps, what is needed is a huge reset on expectations. Should we be looking at this as Shaka is in year one and not year five. RGV be dammed without the T.
Talented players simply won't come to MU to be stuck behind Kam, Stevie, Tyler, Oso, Omax, Jopli, Ross, etc.
Now Shaka can sell playing time, without even saying it out loud. Recruits will know they will play immediately if they are a part of the solution.
Shaka is a great representative of this University. He made things look easy with a confluence of high level players falling into his lap and a couple astute transfer pick ups.
Maybe, now, without those original players blocking the way to playing time, Shaka hits on more players than he misses on.
TRGV!!
So Shaka recruits great, then below par, then great, then below par? I don't hate it, but it ain't RGV.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 12:01:53 PMYou do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?
yep, Rothstein is a shill. The WCC has him on speed dial anytime they want something positive put out. Kind of like Gary Parrish was for Buzz.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 12:04:04 PMCorrect! For a reason! Again, use what you saw yourself last year and understand that coaches aren't always going to come out and say, "Well, we have Chase Ross and Ben Gold, and after that we don't look good at all, John!"
There's a lot of room between "we don't look good at all, John" and "Caedin is gonna be the next Oso."
I'm learning that Secret Scrimmage results are not indicative of how good a team is.
Does anyone think this could be Shaka's worse season? He was 11-22 his second season at Texas.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 12:06:15 PMDan Hurley on Isaiah Abraham:
"'Isaiah, I think we felt like we had a guy coming in on a great trajectory and he's shown up,' Hurley said. 'Shown to be better. Sometimes the players are what you thought they are, little bit worse or better than you thought you were getting. He's better,' he followed."
Abraham left after 1 semester after playing 3.7 mpg in 9 games. Dan Hurley doesn't know how to evaluate talent, clearly.
So Hurley didn't feel good about Abraham, but thought he'd boost his confidence with his statements to the media?
I choose to believe Hurly was being honest. And like I said, no coach bats 1.000 on player evaluations.
Shaka's peak at MU may well turn out to have been December 20th, 2023. It's actually been pretty grim since then - I think we're like 2-9 against ranked teams in 2024 and 2025?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 20, 2025, 12:16:00 PMDoes anyone think this could be Shaka's worse season? He was 11-22 his second season at Texas.
I highly doubt it but if you look at these results it does make it a reasonable question:
Incarnate Word @ IU
61-69Mount St. Mary's @ Maryland
90-95/OTUMBC @ Dayton
71-77
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 20, 2025, 12:12:38 PMI'm learning that Secret Scrimmage results are not indicative of how good a team is.
Assumed it was just a funny troll post when it was reported we gave up 110 points to Colorado, but that may have actually been true.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 20, 2025, 12:08:19 PMSo Shaka recruits great, then below par, then great, then below par? I don't hate it, but it ain't RGV.
Just saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players. Definitely makes it tough.
This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU. If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that.
So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year. This rebuild will take longer.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 11:54:26 AMIf you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.
I'm hardly relying on him for something. I'm referring to what was publicly being discussed about him prior to the season.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 20, 2025, 12:30:32 PMJust saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players. Definitely makes it tough.
This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU. If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that.
So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year. This rebuild will take longer.
I think that is fair. I think most, if not all, believe Shaka will return the program to where people expect it. I still believe he is a great coach who made a reasonable choice to zig when others zagged regarding transfers. I trust he will adjust like other great coaches do.
As for player compensation, other professional players understand the market for players and deal with the fact that market value of some turn out to be better than they believe they are. I refuse to believe that a player like Kam would unplug if a hot recruit like Kon made more. There are countless examples across all pro sports of that situation happening. It's not ideal, but professionals deal with it.
But a rebuild to what? All of Shaka's success has been predicated on keeping guys together - which has let us rack up wins early in the year. In 4 years, we've really only had one year where we were still playing well by March, and that year we bowed out to a 7 seed. Even when we had better talent, we weren't getting it done in the 2nd half of the season.
Our best wins under Shaka have been on Nov 20th, Nov 15th, and Nov 22nd.
Now, we don't even have an early season edge. So we rebuild to what? In 2 or 3 years we can get some nice scalps in November? Who cares. Shaka has 2 years to show he can get it done IN MARCH. That's looking like a pretty tall order this year.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 12:39:38 PMI'm hardly relying on him for something. I'm referring to what was publicly being discussed about him prior to the season.
What's odd is that Rothstein tweeted the exact same thing about Hamilton the year before as well. "Practice player" is a real thing.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 20, 2025, 12:30:32 PMJust saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players. Definitely makes it tough.
This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU. If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that.
So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year. This rebuild will take longer.
"Rebuild" is the same word people used with Wojo. It worked for the first three or so years (too long), and then it was year 4, and we still sucked.
This isn't early 2010s baseball, where the model is to tear everything down and start over and maybe be good in 5-6 years when all your prospects develop. In today's CBB landscape, you can plug holes through the transfer portal and reload every single year. There is no such thing as a "rebuild" anymore. A new coach coming into a program can have a top team in year 2 if he's any good, and for an established coach who's been at his program a while, there is no excuse for a toilet-level season that doesn't involve injuries to major rotational players.
What is being "rebuilt" right now? Aside from Nigel James, I don't think there's a single other player on the current roster who'd be wanted by a top-25 program in next year's portal. It's not like Ian Miletic is in low A and four years from now maybe he'll get called up in the middle of the season if he's doing well in triple A. There are players his age on high major teams making big contributions. If the three guys redshirting and the current young guys are supposed to be what'll save us next year, I think we're in for a rough time.
Quote from: 1SE on November 20, 2025, 12:44:16 PMBut a rebuild to what? All of Shaka's success has been predicated on keeping guys together - which has let us rack up wins early in the year. In 4 years, we've really only had one year where we were still playing well by March, and that year we bowed out to a 7 seed. Even when we had better talent, we weren't getting it done in the 2nd half of the season.
Our best wins under Shaka have been on Nov 20th, Nov 15th, and Nov 22nd.
Now, we don't even have an early season edge. So we rebuild to what? In 2 or 3 years we can get some nice scalps in November? Who cares. Shaka has 2 years to show he can get it done IN MARCH. That's looking like a pretty tall order this year.
What are you even talking about? We beat the team that won the national title on March 10.
In Kolek's and Oso's last year yes we lost back to back games in March, but one was at #12 Creighton without Kolek or Oso and we were in a 2 possession game with 2 minutes left, and the other was a 7 point loss to #2 and eventual national champion UCONN without Kolek. We then rebounded and won 3 straight before again losing to UCONN in the BET title game before making the Sweet 16. We went 11-5 in February/March that year, and 3 of the losses were without our All American point guard.
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 20, 2025, 12:52:37 PMWhat's odd is that Rothstein tweeted the exact same thing about Hamilton the year before as well. "Practice player" is a real thing.
Maybe we just don't take what people are telling John Rothstein as Gospel. He was trying to interview Shaka after one of the games Kolek didn't play in late in the 2023-2024 season and Shaka opened it up by saying, "Are you going to ask me if Kolek will be playing like you do every morning?" Clearly Shaka isn't giving John Rothstein real inside information on our program.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 12:58:23 PMMaybe we just don't take what people are telling John Rothstein as Gospel. He was trying to interview Shaka after one of the games Kolek didn't play in late in the 2023-2024 season and Shaka opened it up by saying, "Are you going to ask me if Kolek will be playing like you do every morning?" Clearly Shaka isn't giving John Rothstein real inside information on our program.
Besides flying in the face of your assertion that Shaka was using the media to build up the confidence of his own players, if what you say is true, then Rothstein isn't the issue, Shaka is by not giving truthful answers. Rothstein would be the bad actor if he twisted Shaka's words.
Guyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys, Rothstein doesn't have to talk to the head coach to get a quote like that.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 20, 2025, 01:05:55 PMBesides flying in the face of your assertion that Shaka was using the media to build up the confidence of his own players, if what you say is true, then Rothstein isn't the issue, Shaka is by not giving truthful answers. Rothstein would be the bad actor if he twisted Shaka's words.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHAHAHWHAHAHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *catches breath* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 20, 2025, 09:47:50 AMAnd WTF was Shaka supposed to do second half of last season? Go to the portal? (Which is the end all be all solution for all of you hating on Shaka and our program at present.)
Though it may seem highly unlikely, could it not be possible that this year is the exact inverse of last year? Where this team starts like crap, but finishes strong? Last year Scoopers were riding high after Maryland, Purdue and Wisconsin last - did we see the 5 and 8 finish happening in the last 13 games of the year? Probably not. I'm hopeful this year could be the inverse despite the early evidence not looking good.
And, if we miss the NCAA this year, I'll still be 100% behind Shaka and the guys on the team - they are winners and will get it turned around.
Absolutely horrendous roster construction last year/this year led to zero flexibility on helping improve the roster. Carrying Amadou, Clark and Hamilton last year was criminal and a disservice to the talent we carried last year.
This year more of the same
Quote from: #UnleashNigel on November 20, 2025, 09:29:29 AMThe money was there.... For a one time payoff, and even that took a couple years of wading through wojos crap.
This is now a pay that amount every year thing.
Correct. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 20, 2025, 01:42:53 PMCorrect. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.
we do have an advantage when it comes to what we can provide to players via revenue share over P4 schools who see 75% of the amount allocated to football.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 20, 2025, 10:56:44 AMI mean neither did Shaka. Shakas had two years of high level success, two years of acceptable standard. Even Wojo had that (the couple years of acceptable standard not high level success)
That gets into semantics. He made the tourney 4 years in a row with 2 protected seeds. I think you continue to do that and the tourney success will come.
Wojo made the tourney twice in 7 years without a single win. He was 59-68 in conference.
It's completely fair to be concerned about this season and the trajectory for next season as well but there's not even a comparison to be made here, IMO.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 20, 2025, 01:42:53 PMCorrect. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.
Seriously, I'm confused.
The money is not there, but "we have resources for sure." :-\
"The dude has no idea what the budget is", but you do? :-\
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 11:44:56 AMNo, Wojo had 4-1/2 years of progressive escalating success. Year one bad. Year two better but not good enough. Year three right side of the bubble. Year four wrong side of the bubble, but clear defensive flaws. Year five, top-10 team and had 3 chances to clinch the Big East but the wheels fell off.
At the end of year five, even his supporters (myself included) were ready to jump ship, but acknowledged you couldn't fire a guy coming off a 5-seed. And then we had a pandemic.
Shaka escalated faster and reached higher heights, but like Wojo saw a downturn in success after losing his first two golden geese. Wojo went from a 5 to a 9 losing the Hausers, Shaka went from a 2 to a 7 losing TK/Oso. The year after, Wojo lost Markus and had a losing record. Shaka lost Kam and we have this.
Shaka is a better coach & did far more than Wojo did, but if you compare 2017-21 and 2022-present, the escalation and decline has some parallels but at different levels.
Agree to disagree on the comparison.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 11:44:56 AMNo, Wojo had 4-1/2 years of progressive escalating success. Year one bad. Year two better but not good enough. Year three right side of the bubble. Year four wrong side of the bubble, but clear defensive flaws. Year five, top-10 team and had 3 chances to clinch the Big East but the wheels fell off.
At the end of year five, even his supporters (myself included) were ready to jump ship, but acknowledged you couldn't fire a guy coming off a 5-seed. And then we had a pandemic.
Shaka escalated faster and reached higher heights, but like Wojo saw a downturn in success after losing his first two golden geese. Wojo went from a 5 to a 9 losing the Hausers, Shaka went from a 2 to a 7 losing TK/Oso. The year after, Wojo lost Markus and had a losing record. Shaka lost Kam and we have this.
Shaka is a better coach & did far more than Wojo did, but if you compare 2017-21 and 2022-present, the escalation and decline has some parallels but at different levels.
You have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel. He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.
It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool. The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.
And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.
Quote from: panda on November 20, 2025, 01:12:33 PMAbsolutely horrendous roster construction last year/this year led to zero flexibility on helping improve the roster. Carrying Amadou, Clark and Hamilton last year was criminal and a disservice to the talent we carried last year.
At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam. Right? Right? They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 20, 2025, 02:34:20 PMYou have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel. He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.
It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool. The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.
And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.
At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam. Right? Right? They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.
No, this is revisionist. We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel. To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong. A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 02:57:30 PMNo, this is revisionist. We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel. To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong. A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 02:57:30 PMNo, this is revisionist. We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel. To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong. A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.
Yes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 02:57:30 PMNo, this is revisionist. We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel. To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong. A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.
The Equalizer has a deal for drawing wild conclusions from small amounts of data.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 20, 2025, 03:00:38 PMYes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 20, 2025, 02:34:20 PMShaka is avoiding these type of players completely.
Oh, okay, then he's welcome to revise what he said. Additionally, Kon is not the only one.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 20, 2025, 02:34:20 PMYou have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel. He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.
It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool. The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.
And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.
At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam. Right? Right? They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.
I'm not saying you're wrong but some of those guys you picked their lowest rankings
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 20, 2025, 03:00:38 PMYes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.
JJ Andrews, Tarris Bouie, Carey Booth, JP Estrella, Devin Royal, Kon Knueppel, Nyk Lewis, Jamarion Bateman, Micah Gordon are all top 50 recruits that have taken official visits to Marquette during Shaka's time here. Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward, Devin Cleveland, Antonio Pemberton, Donovan Davis, Jaxson Davis are, depending where you look, top 50 recruits that have all been offered and shown legitimate interest.
2027 is a huge year for Shaka. I know recruiting rankings don't guarantee a kid's success (or lack thereof), but I can take 2 down years if Shaka is starting to up the talent level in the program with freshman classes. The class of 2026 is a good start. 2027 needs to be better, or Shaka needs to start building the roster in more modern ways. If the class has 3 of Cleveland, Pemberton, Jaxson Davis, Donovan Davis, and Micah Gordon I can be patient. If Jack Kohnen is the highlight of the class, then the talent isn't really improving a ton.
If posters are going to use Shaka's first year as evidence that he was willing to use the portal, I think we need a simple fact check on what the MU roster would have looked like without the transfers.
The actual classes of some of the players might be a year off because of redshirts, but after Wojo left the only returning platers from MU's 2020-3021 team were Oso (soph who barely plated as freshman), Justin Lewis (Soph), and Greg Elliot ( a senior who, if I recall, was not certain to return)
Then there were the four incoming freshmen: Kam Jones. Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis.
Nobody could argue with a straight face that this 7 man team would have been remotely competitive.
To add some experience and balance to the roster he added Morsell and Kwath as seniors and OMax and Kolek as sophs,
IMHO making those moves is not inconsistent with a philosophy of recruiting and developing players within the program while keeping a balance of older players and younger ones. They were necessary to field a competitive team.
Quote from: wisblue on November 20, 2025, 03:52:06 PMIf posters are going to use Shaka's first year as evidence that he was willing to use the portal, I think we need a simple fact check on what the MU roster would have looked like without the transfers.
The actual classes of some of the players might be a year off because of redshirts, but after Wojo left the only returning platers from MU's 2020-3021 team were Oso (soph who barely plated as freshman), Justin Lewis (Soph), and Greg Elliot ( a senior who, if I recall, was not certain to return)
Then there were the four incoming freshmen: Kam Jones. Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis.
Nobody could argue with a straight face that this 7 man team would have been remotely competitive.
To add some experience and balance to the roster he added Morsell and Kwath as seniors and OMax and Kolek as sophs,
IMHO making those moves is not inconsistent with a philosophy of recruiting and developing players within the program while keeping a balance of older players and younger ones. They were necessary to field a competitive team.
Kinda like this one?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on November 20, 2025, 06:47:02 AM.
You sound like its the end of the world. The sky is falling. For God's sake calm down. Let this team develop. Shaka will coach and mold them into a competitive group. Hang in there.
Sounds like we should respect the process but to date Shaka agrees to date it is not working this year. He is relying on past success to give him some cover. He blames lack of confidence for poor shooting. However, some of the bad shooters have been around 2-2+ years and shooting is just one of the problems. What is the magic sauce to improve shooting, defense, passing and avoid one-on-one offense? If he pulls this off he will become one of the all time basketball magicians. If he does not he should accept failure and learn from his mistakes. He can still can be a great coach but only if he adjusts to overcome the problems. If he doubles down for much longer it will be a very long year for the team, Marquette fans and for him and his coaching staff.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 03:55:45 PMKinda like this one?
At least this team has bodies to plug in if there are injuries or foul trouble.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 01:53:14 PMwe do have an advantage when it comes to what we can provide to players via revenue share over P4 schools who see 75% of the amount allocated to football.
#FakeNews #Lies
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 20, 2025, 03:33:15 PMI'm not saying you're wrong but some of those guys you picked their lowest rankings
I used 247 consistently for all of them. I wasn't cherry picking different services.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 20, 2025, 04:55:51 PM#FakeNews #Lies
So you're saying we have less for hoops than VCU, which committed $4.5 million for revenue share, meaning men's hoops players are getting around $400k each from the school?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 03:36:02 PMJJ Andrews, Tarris Bouie, Carey Booth, JP Estrella, Devin Royal, Kon Knueppel, Nyk Lewis, Jamarion Bateman, Micah Gordon are all top 50 recruits that have taken official visits to Marquette during Shaka's time here. Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward, Devin Cleveland, Antonio Pemberton, Donovan Davis, Jaxson Davis are, depending where you look, top 50 recruits that have all been offered and shown legitimate interest.
2027 is a huge year for Shaka. I know recruiting rankings don't guarantee a kid's success (or lack thereof), but I can take 2 down years if Shaka is starting to up the talent level in the program with freshman classes. The class of 2026 is a good start. 2027 needs to be better, or Shaka needs to start building the roster in more modern ways. If the class has 3 of Cleveland, Pemberton, Jaxson Davis, Donovan Davis, and Micah Gordon I can be patient. If Jack Kohnen is the highlight of the class, then the talent isn't really improving a ton.
In general, I of course agree with your point and have said the same exact thing.
But what makes you think 2026 was "a good start"? We have one player that projects to be a true difference maker, and two guys that SCREAM Tre Norman and Caedin Hamilton-esque talents.
Ethan Johnston was terrible this past summer, really from the time he committed onward. To me, he looks like a longer Tre Norman. And Nash Walker is so bad at everything but shooting that Shaka's spinniest spin on his commitment was "he's bad at everything but shooting". I would argue 2026 was much more comparable to the 2022 Chase Ross, Ben Gold, Sean Jones class than anything close to Nigel James, Adrien Stevens, Sheek Pearson, Ian Miletic, Michael Phillips class: in other words, a giant step back.
That's why losing out on Dooney Johnson was such a killer. THAT is the level of talent Shaka needs to be bringing in every year, and the kid was a local product that the staff felt was in the best position for. I'm as low on Marquette basketball as I was in the 2020-2021 Wojo era, and that's unnatural carnal knowledgeing alarming. Only difference is Shaka is actively making life so much harder on himself: he's playing with one arm tied behind his back (no portal usage) and blind (settling for back-end top 100 kids and no-name projects no one else wanted). He's basically the Helen Keller of college basketball.
The only silver lining of our season being over in two weeks is there is absolutely no excuse not to the play the freshmen and sophomores every minute humanly possible. Enough with the meaningless "well embedded mole" bullcrap via Rothstein, it's time to sink or swim. Play Owens, Clark, Phillips, James, Stevens, Parham as much as you possibly can, and if they prove themselves, bring em back. If not, then be a highly-compensated college coach and move on to someone more talented. This isn't a charity, as much as Shaka's loyalty to scrubs is Make-A-Wish lite.
I would love to see him pull Ian's redshirt and see what he's got. There's no use in redshirting a guy most of us were surprised is sitting when we need to know right now who can hack it at this level. I'm done with the Caedin Hamilon, Al Amadou, Emarion Ellis, Tre Norman, Keeyan Itejere leeches who stay on the roster when they have no business playing at this level.
That so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
Quote from: Charlotte Warrior on November 20, 2025, 05:31:25 PMThat so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
We've been a bad basketball team for an entire calendar year. The only difference is the guys who have the talent to make us an actual contender are too young to truly affect winning at a high level. Congrats on having the patience to wait until 2027-2028 to be good again; in today's day and age, at a program the caliber of Marquette, I personally find that inexcusable.
Quote from: Charlotte Warrior on November 20, 2025, 05:31:25 PMThat so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
Would like to hear about this guarantee.
It is about returning MU to BB greatness. Not about coaching kid teams.
The rules about building a team have changed.
One can do it the old way and be a bottom dweller because one isn't using all the resources available to them that other teams are using.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:30:26 PMThe only silver lining of our season being over in two weeks is there is absolutely no excuse not to the play the freshmen and sophomores every minute humanly possible. Enough with the meaningless "well embedded mole" bullcrap via Rothstein, it's time to sink or swim. Play Owens, Clark, Phillips, James, Stevens, Parham as much as you possibly can, and if they prove themselves, bring em back. If not, then be a highly-compensated college coach and move on to someone more talented. This isn't a charity, as much as Shaka's loyalty to scrubs is Make-A-Wish lite.
I would love to see him pull Ian's redshirt and see what he's got. There's no use in redshirting a guy most of us were surprised is sitting when we need to know right now who can hack it at this level. I'm done with the Caedin Hamilon, Al Amadou, Emarion Ellis, Tre Norman, Keeyan Itejere leeches who stay on the roster when they have no business playing at this level.
You sounded fairly reasonable until your last paragraph. Also, I was not surprised Ian caught a red shirt.
Quote from: Charlotte Warrior on November 20, 2025, 05:31:25 PMThat so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
Yeah, it would suck to be a Purdue fan being unable to be proud of the Boilers knowing Painter sold his soul for a "rent a team" by bringing in one transfer before the 2023-24 season and one for this season. Just shameful.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 05:04:05 PMSo you're saying we have less for hoops than VCU, which committed $4.5 million for revenue share, meaning men's hoops players are getting around $400k each from the school?
I'm saying what you said in the post I replied to is not true.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 05:44:35 PMYeah, it would suck to be a Purdue fan being unable to be proud of the Boilers knowing Painter sold his soul for a "rent a team" by bringing in one transfer before the 2023-24 season and one for this season. Just shameful.
Yup. Portal use is not about overhauling a roster year after year. It's about properly supplementing a growing team of recruits to fill gaps and maintain a high level of competitiveness
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:23:17 PMIn general, I of course agree with your point and have said the same exact thing.
But what makes you think 2026 was "a good start"? We have one player that projects to be a true difference maker, and two guys that SCREAM Tre Norman and Caedin Hamilton-esque talents.
Ethan Johnston was terrible this past summer, really from the time he committed onward. To me, he looks like a longer Tre Norman. And Nash Walker is so bad at everything but shooting that Shaka's spinniest spin on his commitment was "he's bad at everything but shooting". I would argue 2026 was much more comparable to the 2022 Chase Ross, Ben Gold, Sean Jones class than anything close to Nigel James, Adrien Stevens, Sheek Pearson, Ian Miletic, Michael Phillips class: in other words, a giant step back.
That's why losing out on Dooney Johnson was such a killer. THAT is the level of talent Shaka needs to be bringing in every year, and the kid was a local product that the staff felt was in the best position for. I'm as low on Marquette basketball as I was in the 2020-2021 Wojo era, and that's unnatural carnal knowledgeing alarming. Only difference is Shaka is actively making life so much harder on himself: he's playing with one arm tied behind his back (no portal usage) and blind (settling for back-end top 100 kids and no-name projects no one else wanted). He's basically the Helen Keller of college basketball.
Because Sheek was part of the 2026 class as well. And I'll take shooters that are "bad at everything else." Egbuonu to me is Shaka's best freshman recruit. We'll see if that turns out right or not, but that kind of big bodied athlete is the kind of guy we really need.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:34:15 PMWe've been a bad basketball team for an entire calendar year. The only difference is the guys who have the talent to make us an actual contender are too young to truly affect winning at a high level. Congrats on having the patience to wait until 2027-2028 to be good again; in today's day and age, at a program the caliber of Marquette, I personally find that inexcusable.
When did Marquette fans suddenly think Marquette is North Carolina?
Like I said before, the reaction here is absolutely bonkers. We're not above a down season.
Quote from: 1SE on November 20, 2025, 12:25:34 PMShaka's peak at MU may well turn out to have been December 20th, 2023. It's actually been pretty grim since then
That's just dopey.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:34:15 PMWe've been a bad basketball team for an entire calendar year. The only difference is the guys who have the talent to make us an actual contender are too young to truly affect winning at a high level. Congrats on having the patience to wait until 2027-2028 to be good again; in today's day and age, at a program the caliber of Marquette, I personally find that inexcusable.
100%. The collective angst is basically (and justifiably, imo) ...we're taking a step back, r u serious? Others reload and basketball centric Marquette RGV's to 20 L's. Must avoid DePaulville. Bad neighborhood to be in.
Quote from: Markusquette on November 20, 2025, 05:50:02 PMYup. Portal use is not about overhauling a roster year after year. It's about properly supplementing a growing team of recruits to fill gaps and maintain a high level of competitiveness
Which is what MU has done throughout their history up until now for some reason. No one ever complained about any transfer in or thought we were renting a team. Always been a good option to fill a hole with an experienced player.
Quote from: Viper on November 20, 2025, 06:03:22 PM100%. The collective angst is basically (and justifiably, imo) ...we're taking a step back, r u serious? Others reload and basketball centric Marquette RGV's to 20 L's. Must avoid DePaulville. Bad neighborhood to be in.
Name the programs that haven't had one down year in the five years?
Duke, Michigan State, Kansas, Purdue, Gonzaga, Houston, Tennessee, and Baylor are the only schools with longer NCAA Tournament streaks than Marquette. All have Hall of Fame coaches who have been at their schools much longer than Shaka besides Scheyer.
And the idea that we've "been bad for a year" just goes to show what a spoiled baby fanbase we have. We finished tied for 4th in the Big East and were a 7 seed in the Tournament. I know some here think that's unacceptable and something to turn our nose up at, but those people are not in touch with reality.
We're a good program that somehow some people here think only Shaka is stopping us from being peak John Wooden's UCLA.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 05:59:02 PMWhen did Marquette fans suddenly think Marquette is North Carolina?
Like I said before, the reaction here is absolutely bonkers. We're not above a down season.
you are correct 100%, we are not UNC. But we do have a helluva basketball pedigree. This extreme of a step back is self-inflicted. Need not happen.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 05:59:02 PMWhen did Marquette fans suddenly think Marquette is North Carolina?
Like I said before, the reaction here is absolutely bonkers. We're not above a down season.
Nobody's saying MU is above a bad season. Some are concerned that Shaka's model seems to have the program trending the wrong way. Since Feb. 1, Shaka's teams are 5-11 against non-cupcakes. None of those wins were over a KenPom top 40 opponent. Four were over teams rated 90+. Bottom line, MU is 1-11 vs quality opponents since Feb. 1, and that's being generous to Maryland and Dayton.
And next year's roster looks less talented than this year. We can I hope - I hope - for some developmental leaps from guys like Owens, Parham and Lowery. Or maybe the freshmen save the day. But right now we're heading into next season with Zaide Lowery as the team's best player. And no disrespect to Zaide, but he would be a bench player on the 22/23, 23/24 and 24/25 teams.
The worry isn't a down season. It's down
seasons.
Quote from: Viper on November 20, 2025, 06:25:32 PMyou are correct 100%, we are not UNC. But we do have a helluva basketball pedigree. This extreme of a step back is self-inflicted. Need not happen.
It needs to get better. And if this approach isn't going to work Shaka needs to adjust. I trust he will. But we aren't immune to a down year with his current approach, and we won't be immune to a down year if he adjusts how the fanbase wants him to or if we get a new coach. Just reality.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 06:26:58 PMIt needs to get better. And if this approach isn't going to work Shaka needs to adjust. I trust he will. But we aren't immune to a down year with his current approach, and we won't be immune to a down year if he adjusts how the fanbase wants him to or if we get a new coach. Just reality.
In hindsight, it seems like a huge mistake for Shaka to witness how last year's team finished and say, "No, we're good for next year. RGV." Other than that though, I'm not sure what else he could do right in this moment. He's full for next year, so even if he's planning on further adjusting the roster he can't say it now.
I'm really optimistic on the freshmen and excited for the new guys to join, but IMO we can't go into next season with the current sophomore and junior classes the way they are.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 20, 2025, 01:53:14 PMwe do have an advantage when it comes to what we can provide to players via revenue share over P4 schools who see 75% of the amount allocated to football.
Sure, so where does the revenue come from. Ticket sales, TV revenue and post season payments. Subtract from that running the whole department. Why don't you email Mike and ask him what the Excellence budget is for this year?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 06:23:29 PMName the programs that haven't had one down year in the five years?
Duke, Michigan State, Kansas, Purdue, Gonzaga, Houston, Tennessee, and Baylor are the only schools with longer NCAA Tournament streaks than Marquette. All have Hall of Fame coaches who have been at their schools much longer than Shaka besides Scheyer.
And the idea that we've "been bad for a year" just goes to show what a spoiled baby fanbase we have. We finished tied for 4th in the Big East and were a 7 seed in the Tournament. I know some here think that's unacceptable and something to turn our nose up at, but those people are not in touch with reality.
We're a good program that somehow some people here think only Shaka is stopping us from being peak John Wooden's UCLA.
Man you love to use hyperbole if your point is overstated. No one is claiming the last sentence. I think most people are concerned, not simply because of a down year, but because of how they slipped last year, are falling off this year, and without a great deal of promise for next year as well.
A mere off year is fine if they were also giving you a sense of optimism for the future, but a lot of recruiting misses in the junior and sophomore classes makes such optimism difficult.
Furthermore, there is a method available to cover up some of those misses, but he seemingly refuses to use it.
I get we're all super pissed. Based on what we've seen, this team is going to have a rough season. And the "continuity"/not utilizing the portal doesn't make a lot of sense moving forward. All that said, we can't give up on our guys or Shaka.
I didn't have Brewcity77 bashing on Shaka for a 3-3 start, but defending wojo in the same thread on my 2025 bingo card.
What I'm most surprised about is the lack of player development fron our returning guys.
What would be the 1st thing you would do moving forward if you were in charge? I would permanently retire the hard hedge 40 feet from the rim.
For people who can't grasp the "bad for a year" comments, we are 17-13 in our last 30 games, starting with Dayton last year. 4-12 against kenpom top-70 (aka bubble or better) teams. Sorting T-Rank, we played like the #41 team in the country last year from Dec 13 to the end of the season, this year have played like the #82 team in the country, though that's a small sample size.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 07:13:01 PMFor people who can't grasp the "bad for a year" comments, we are 17-13 in our last 30 games, starting with Dayton last year. 4-12 against kenpom top-70 (aka bubble or better) teams. Sorting T-Rank, we played like the #41 team in the country last year from Dec 13 to the end of the season, this year have played like the #82 team in the country, though that's a small sample size.
Brew,
What are your remedies? Are we bereft of talent or are there any changes we can immediately make? I might try 4 guards with Ben or Royce.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 20, 2025, 06:49:30 PMI get we're all super pissed. Based on what we've seen, this team is going to have a rough season. And the "continuity"/not utilizing the portal doesn't make a lot of sense moving forward. All that said, we can't give up on our guys or Shaka.
Agreed.
Also, Shaka and MU have confidence in each other that allows him the freedom to try the no transfer strategy. Kudos to both Shaka and MU. This season maybe disappointing, but I admire the guts to try it.
Quote from: Charlotte Warrior on November 20, 2025, 05:31:25 PMThat so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
This sentiment is pollyanish. I agree that the sky is not falling. One really bad year is acceptable, especially if the talent level was gravely miscalculated by Shaka. But, MU fans will get restless with this. The season ticket base will go down. Things like this happen quickly. Shaka has the ability to turn this rebuild around in short order if he uses the tools at his disposal and has the stomach for difficult conversations with current players.
It's all about proper player evaluation going forward. He hit the bullseye or at least around it with Kolek, Omax, Joplin and Ross. Wojo hit the bullseye on the rest. Cannot afford too many more recruiting misses. We all want Shaka to succeed. But he, alone, will have to unearth the talent for the next top 10 run at MU.
Hope it happens. TRGV!
Quote from: Charlotte Warrior on November 20, 2025, 05:31:25 PMThat so many people are losing their sh@& is beyond funny to me. Shaka is a great coach, builds a program the university and the Alumni can be proud of, does it right and really connects with the players. I'm glad we stay out of that portal mess, I don't want a "rent a team". I'd sign up to have him coach my kids every day of the week. We are having a down year, things will improve, guaranteed. Step back and take a breath, enjoy the season. The sky is not falling. 2025 may not be our year, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sheeesh
We are six games into the season. Let's see what happens. So fa4 we have seen flaws 8n every aspect of the game. Though rebounding is better. The team needs to believe in itself, and so far I th8nk they are playing with hesitance and doubt. That's not how Shaka's teams have played. It is truly possible that Shaka sees one thing in practice, then these guys take to the court and doubt prevails. Chase is chase. He goes after i5 and is confident. Ben is bette4 and fun to watch and good now for rebounds and defense . the rest... they need to develop. Most will. Some will level off and not get beyond that. Shaka is a very solid coach, and will make adjustments. Let's Chill for five and see what happens. Go Marquette!
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:30:26 PMThe only silver lining of our season being over in two weeks is there is absolutely no excuse not to the play the freshmen and sophomores every minute humanly possible. Enough with the meaningless "well embedded mole" bullcrap via Rothstein, it's time to sink or swim. Play Owens, Clark, Phillips, James, Stevens, Parham as much as you possibly can, and if they prove themselves, bring em back. If not, then be a highly-compensated college coach and move on to someone more talented. This isn't a charity, as much as Shaka's loyalty to scrubs is Make-A-Wish lite.
I would love to see him pull Ian's redshirt and see what he's got. There's no use in redshirting a guy most of us were surprised is sitting when we need to know right now who can hack it at this level. I'm done with the Caedin Hamilon, Al Amadou, Emarion Ellis, Tre Norman, Keeyan Itejere leeches who stay on the roster when they have no business playing at this level.
Once again, pulling someone's redshirt who is not ready would be objectively stupid and shortsighted and I can't believe multiple people have suggested it.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:30:26 PMI would love to see him pull Ian's redshirt and see what he's got. There's no use in redshirting a guy most of us were surprised is sitting when we need to know right now who can hack it at this level.
It doesn't matter how surprised anyone is. And we don't need to know anything right now. Do you think we vote on the line ups or something?
It would be monumentally stupid to waste a year of eligibility on a down year like this.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 20, 2025, 05:43:48 PMYou sounded fairly reasonable until your last paragraph. Also, I was not surprised Ian caught a red shirt.
Speculating on Ian's redshirt is simply an exaggerated portion to a different point: that we need to see which underclassmen can cut it at this level. Clearly he's not ready to play, and I'm fine with he and Sheek redshirting. I'm just saying with our season essentially over, we need to start focusing on who that will be here can excel here. So play the young guys as many minutes as they can handle to see who deserves to play here.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 08:21:16 PMTo
Speculating on Ian's redshirt is simply an exaggerated portion to a different point: that we need to see which underclassmen can cut it at this level. Clearly he's not ready to play, and I'm fine with he and Sheek redshirting. I'm just saying with our season essentially over, we need to start focusing on who that will be here can excel here. So play the young guys as many minutes as they can handle to see who deserves to play here.
lol. The season isn't "essentially over." Good lord.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 05:59:02 PMWhen did Marquette fans suddenly think Marquette is North Carolina?
Like I said before, the reaction here is absolutely bonkers. We're not above a down season.
What an asinine strawman argument. Because I expect Marquette to be competitive and in the mix every year I'm saying we're North Carolina? Kinda sad you think so little of Marquette that what I'm saying is deemed unreasonable. Am I supposed to apologize for having high expectations for my alma mater? Good God.
For the umpteenth time, this is not a simple 6-game sample size.
- We were national title contenders in 23/24 when O-Max left, we did nothing to add around the margins.
- Kolek wanted to come back for 24/25 but had guarantees from the NBA, despite our significant offer. It happens. But then we again do nothing to improve, no point guard depth, and our team craters from new year's on cause Kam's 99% usage rate was unsustainable. We flame out pathetically.
- Now we enter 25/26 with CLEAR issues and again do absolutely nothing. And look like the worst team in the Big East: with no obvious reinforcements to make us any better next season.
So yeah, I'm unnatural carnal knowledgeing pissed. Pissed that we didn't maximize our title window, do right by Kam, Stevie, Jop, and reload in the slightest when it was clear to the village idiot that this season was gonna be an uphill climb.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 08:24:38 PMlol. The season isn't "essentially over." Good lord.
We're 2 weeks in and have no shot at an at-large bid. And look like a local CYO team. In terms of meaningful, tournament stakes, our season is toast.
Only thing left to play for IMO is Chase impressing NBA scouts and figuring out which freshmen/sophomores are good enough to stay.
We're a nobody until we beat a somebody.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2025, 07:13:01 PMFor people who can't grasp the "bad for a year" comments, we are 17-13 in our last 30 games, starting with Dayton last year. 4-12 against kenpom top-70 (aka bubble or better) teams. Sorting T-Rank, we played like the #41 team in the country last year from Dec 13 to the end of the season, this year have played like the #82 team in the country, though that's a small sample size.
Good thing there are separate seasons and not a rolling 12 month record.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 08:31:59 PMWhat an asinine strawman argument. Because I expect Marquette to be competitive and in the mix every year I'm saying we're North Carolina? Kinda sad you think so little of Marquette that what I'm saying is deemed unreasonable. Am I supposed to apologize for having high expectations for my alma mater? Good God.
For the umpteenth time, this is not a simple 6-game sample size.
- We were national title contenders in 23/24 when O-Max left, we did nothing to add around the margins.
- Kolek wanted to come back for 24/25 but had guarantees from the NBA, despite our significant offer. It happens. But then we again do nothing to improve, no point guard depth, and our team craters from new year's on cause Kam's 99% usage rate was unsustainable. We flame out pathetically.
- Now we enter 25/26 with CLEAR issues and again do absolutely nothing. And look like the worst team in the Big East: with no obvious reinforcements to make us any better next season.
So yeah, I'm unnatural carnal knowledgeing pissed. Pissed that we didn't maximize our title window, do right by Kam, Stevie, Jop, and reload in the slightest when it was clear to the village idiot that this season was gonna be an uphill climb.
Lol. Yes, because I know the history of Marquette basketball, the history of college basketball, and the landscape of college basketball I think little of Marquette. Everything about MU's basketball history says a first round loss as a 7 seed is embarrassing, you are right. Especially following a Big East regular season and Tournament title and 2 seed, and then a Sweet 16 as a 2 seed.
There's a difference between high expectations and unreasonable expectations. Shaka has failed to build a competitive roster this season. He'll have to figure it out going into next season.
Go ask Jop, Stevie, and Kam if Shaka "did right" by them. I've never heard any of them speak anything but with the highest of praise for Shaka.
But you're pissed!
I'll repeat. The response to the first bumpy season in Shaka's 5 years here has been bonkers.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 09:42:41 PMLol. Yes, because I know the history of Marquette basketball, the history of college basketball, and the landscape of college basketball I think little of Marquette. Everything about MU's basketball history says a first round loss as a 7 seed is embarrassing, you are right. Especially following a Big East regular season and Tournament title and 2 seed, and then a Sweet 16 as a 2 seed.
There's a difference between high expectations and unreasonable expectations. Shaka has failed to build a competitive roster this season. He'll have to figure it out going into next season.
Go ask Jop, Stevie, and Kam if Shaka "did right" by them. I've never heard any of them speak anything but with the highest of praise for Shaka.
But you're pissed!
I'll repeat. The response to the first bumpy season in Shaka's 5 years here has been bonkers.
You're being obtuse to deflect from the very obvious, and frustrating, shortcomings. That's fine, but I certainly won't apologize for having these reasonable expectations and being critical when our coach is purposefully trotting out a worse team than he can, year after year, out of principle.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 09:52:29 PMYou're being obtuse to deflect ::) from the very obvious, and frustrating, shortcomings. That's fine, but I certainly won't apologize for having these reasonable expectations and being critical when our coach is purposefully trotting out a worse team than he can, year after year, out of principle.
Yes. The guy wants to put a losing product on the floor. We got to the real point now. ::)
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 09:56:02 PMYes. The guy wants to put a losing product on the floor. We got to the real point now. ::)
The guy isn't utilizing a fraction of the resources he can because he's doubling down on being "the smartest guy in the room" ***, yes
Realistically the lack of development in 1 senior, 1 junior, and a devastating injury to another junior is why this team is bad right now.
Sometimes you hit on a recruit, other times you get one that make me scream their names in frustration.
After reading this thread one thing is certain
Either scoop has a lot of retirees, or a lot of folks that post while they should be working, or both 8-)
You should call some HR departments and do some ratting. That's been a winning play on Scoop for years.
Quote from: #UnleashNigel on November 20, 2025, 10:00:44 PMRealistically the lack of development in 1 senior, 1 junior, and a devastating injury to another junior is why this team is bad right now.
Sometimes you hit on a recruit, other times you get one that make me scream their names in frustration.
I think it's a more nuanced discussion and not relegated to Ben & Sean. It's not about technically being better after 1,2, or 3 seasons. It's more about whether they become consistent starters on a top 30 team in the country or a NCAA tournament team. And whether their roles become defined after a full season.
Chase has gotten better for sure, but he's also primarily played off the ball until this season. He still struggles creating and shooting off the bounce in the half-court. And by now he should absolutely have that skill-set. We also don't know what he would have looked like as a #1 last year. .
Ben has certainly gotten better but he's also wildly inconsistent/streaky. Yesterday he had a horrific 1st half, but then came alive for the critical stretches in the 2H. And on both ends of the floor. That's not good enough and it's somewhat inexplicable. He also still doesn't use his height inside or look comfortable anywhere near the rim. Again, not good enough at a program like MU.
Zaide has progressed more than Tre but both are nowhere near where I think Shaka and all of us thought they would be. Sean has had tough luck but his shot is flat and exactly the same as we saw his Frosh year. Makes no sense to me.
As for Royce, DO, and Caedin? I'm beyond dumbfounded with what they've shown us in 6 games. We have absolutely no idea what we're going to get from this trio.
Furthermore, and I stated this last night, our rudimentary fundamentals leave a lot to be desired. And I honestly don't get it from our returning players. In our three losses, for major stretches, we looked completely lost out there with zero continuity, discipline, intensity, chemistry, poise, or intelligence. This is a sad fact.
Shaka and our entire roster should be enraged and embarassed, as I know we all are here. It's on Shaka to figure it out and make some adjustments. I don't question the effort but we have no identity or confidence on the floor. I know we have a lot of issues, but do not tell me we're as bad as we've seen. It's time to man up and ball.
The fan base, myself included, is really frustrated because this team has very little talent and is currently poorly coached. Some players we thought would be good have shown no development and have been here for multiple years. I personally think Shaka is going to be forced into using the portal next year. For one, I think, and hope, that a few of our upperclassman will look elsewhere next year and open up some roster spots. What's going to force him to make the move will be a dwindling fan base, a lot fewer tickets sales next year, and playing in front of an unenthusiastic and unfilled arena.
Quote from: Superfan on November 20, 2025, 10:50:57 PMThe fan base, myself included, is really frustrated because this team has very little talent and is currently poorly coached. Some players we thought would be good have shown no development and have been here for multiple years. I personally think Shaka is going to be forced into using the portal next year. For one, I think, and hope, that a few of our upperclassman will look elsewhere next year and open up some roster spots. What's going to force him to make the move will be a dwindling fan base, a lot fewer tickets sales next year, and playing in front of an unenthusiastic and unfilled arena.
I don't think we have any schollies. So guys would have to announce they're leaving soon after the season.
To echo Muggsy- there's no alpha energy on this team. Not at least exhibited by some of the upperclassmen who you'd expect that from. Seems like Nigel James has more of a 'fearless' mentality than anyone, despite being a Freshman.
No player possesses the same level of intensity or cocky bravado that we got from Kolek and Jones. Chase has been very solid statistically but I think it's more by default. His personality seems very low key, better suited as a Robin to another guy's Batman.
Additionally, O-Max and Stevie were the all-out hustle guys who teammates could really feed off during Shaka's first 4 years. I'm not seeing that core piece yet either. Maybe Stevens someday?
So I think it's harder looking forward when we aren't seeing that same level of natural progression with the current 2nd and 3rd year players. For years it felt like we knew who was ready to take over and lead. Now there's some bigger question marks for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Markusquette on November 20, 2025, 11:07:04 PMTo echo Muggsy- there's no alpha energy on this team. Not at least exhibited by some of the upperclassmen who you'd expect that from. Seems like Nigel James has more of a 'fearless' mentality than anyone, despite being a Freshman.
No player possesses the same level of intensity or cocky bravado that we got from Kolek and Jones. Chase has been very solid statistically but I think it's more by default. His personality seems very low key, better suited as a Robin to another guy's Batman.
Additionally, O-Max and Stevie were the all-out hustle guys who teammates could really feed off during Shaka's first 4 years. I'm not seeing that core piece yet either. Maybe Stevens someday?
So I think it's harder looking forward when we aren't seeing that same level of natural progression with the current 2nd and 3rd year players. For years it felt like we knew who was ready to take over and lead. Now there's some bigger question marks for the foreseeable future.
Agree yes maybe Stevens someday
(https://i.imgur.com/M7aBykz.jpeg)
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 08:33:42 PMWe're 2 weeks in and have no shot at an at-large bid. And look like a local CYO team. In terms of meaningful, tournament stakes, our season is toast.
Only thing left to play for IMO is Chase impressing NBA scouts and figuring out which freshmen/sophomores are good enough to stay.
We still have a shot at an at large bid and there is still plenty to play for. You're just being silly right now.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 04:03:54 AMWe still have a shot at an at large bid and there is still plenty to play for. You're just being silly right now.
While this is technically still true, we certainly aren't projecting to that now.
Beat UW, Beat PU and all of a sudden the season takes on a different narrative. Lose those, and Oklahoma - well a 5-6 OOC schedule with the best win Q3 I think we'd pretty much have to have 18 conference wins. Get to 10 losses and the NCATT is pretty much gone - unless the 21 Ws include 3 or 4 Q1A wins.
Quote from: onepost on November 20, 2025, 05:30:26 PMThe only silver lining of our season being over in two weeks is there is absolutely no excuse not to the play the freshmen and sophomores every minute humanly possible. Enough with the meaningless "well embedded mole" bullcrap via Rothstein, it's time to sink or swim. Play Owens, Clark, Phillips, James, Stevens, Parham as much as you possibly can, and if they prove themselves, bring em back. If not, then be a highly-compensated college coach and move on to someone more talented. This isn't a charity, as much as Shaka's loyalty to scrubs is Make-A-Wish lite.
I would love to see him pull Ian's redshirt and see what he's got. There's no use in redshirting a guy most of us were surprised is sitting when we need to know right now who can hack it at this level. I'm done with the Caedin Hamilon, Al Amadou, Emarion Ellis, Tre Norman, Keeyan Itejere leeches who stay on the roster when they have no business playing at this level.
Amen
Quote from: MU82 on November 20, 2025, 06:02:06 PMThat's just dopey.
At least since 1977 when we kicked their ass for the natty.
The other thing is very noticeable is that there is no true leader on the floor amongst the upperclassman. In past years when players were not contributing The upperclassman would get on them on the court. Remember when TKO got in Chase's face during the NCAA and he played great in the next game. That's sorely lacking this year.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2025, 05:56:15 AMAt least since 1977 when we kicked their ass for the natty.
That was 50 years ago. You could smoke unfiltereds at the bar and broads were still in the kitchen where they belonged but then woke happened and we can't smoke and broads wear trousers. SMDH
Quote from: 1SE on November 21, 2025, 05:29:10 AMWhile this is technically still true, we certainly aren't projecting to that now.
Beat UW, Beat PU and all of a sudden the season takes on a different narrative. Lose those, and Oklahoma - well a 5-6 OOC schedule with the best win Q3 I think we'd pretty much have to have 18 conference wins. Get to 10 losses and the NCATT is pretty much gone - unless the 21 Ws include 3 or 4 Q1A wins.
Really? No kidding...
Even then, no coach is going to throw in the towel and play the young guys so the fans can see if they actually can play. He is going to try his best to win every game until the season is over.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 07:45:53 AMReally? No kidding...
Even then, no coach is going to throw in the towel and play the young guys so the fans can see if they actually can play. He is going to try his best to win every game until the season is over.
And that's why we need to move on. Shaka's stubbornness to not appease message board posters is a massive problem.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 07:55:44 AMAnd that's why we need to move on. Shaka's stubbornness to not appease message board posters is a massive problem.
Right. If we can't witness in games how good the young guys are, including those who have been redshirted, how on earth are we going to inform Shaka what the line ups should be next year? SMH...
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 20, 2025, 06:15:00 PMWhich is what MU has done throughout their history up until now for some reason. No one ever complained about any transfer in or thought we were renting a team. Always been a good option to fill a hole with an experienced player.
I still refuse to recognize the Final Four because Crean brought in Robert Jackson as a one-year transfer mercenary.
You are correct in that they still have games to play. And these games can be used to develop players.
But as for playing for anything like a tourney bid or placing high in the conference, it is essentially over.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 20, 2025, 08:24:38 PMlol. The season isn't "essentially over." Good lord.
I want to know what the odds of being a tourney team are at this point. KenPom. Give it to the fans straight.
Instead of this BS. We have players close to breaking out.
With what I consider 3 bad losses. 2 at home. I would say we are about a 25% chance of making the tourney.
UConn is going to beat us by 40.
Now I know what it feels like to be Providence or Seton Hall. Who will probably both beat us also.
Even DePaul looks better at this point.
I am preparing for really really bad.
What is Shaka's spin if we lose 20?
Quote from: DoctorV on November 19, 2025, 10:58:08 PMHe knew very early that at Marquette, the way to win was to get old and stay old.
The first few years he struck gold when he got in the lab and brought in some elite transfers, and retained and coached up some Wojo recruits.
Then he brought in his own guys- guys in the 75-125 range in the rankings that would fit his retention yet not dropping heavy cash mold and grow old and stay old method.
He knows what he's doing, he has a plan, but like all of us he expected someone like Damarius to become a star, and Royce to follow suit. He expected more out of almost everyone on this roster, and he's been let down.
So, now he has to adjust
Quote from: DoctorV on November 19, 2025, 10:58:08 PMHe knew very early that at Marquette, the way to win was to get old and stay old.
The first few years he struck gold when he got in the lab and brought in some elite transfers, and retained and coached up some Wojo recruits.
Then he brought in his own guys- guys in the 75-125 range in the rankings that would fit his retention yet not dropping heavy cash mold and grow old and stay old method.
He knows what he's doing, he has a plan, but like all of us he expected someone like Damarius to become a star, and Royce to follow suit. He expected more out of almost everyone on this roster, and he's been let down.
So, now he has to adjust
I agree with this 100% AND I think he will adjust, he has had success with this approach and now they hit a down patch which will lead him to re-evaluate and make some adjustments to the plan. He's never said he's anti-portal and used it before with good success, he's just modified his approach and expected a few of the underclassmen to take the next step and they have not as of yet......there are 25 games left for them get better, I'll be watching them all and reppin' MUBB
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 04:03:54 AMWe still have a shot at an at large bid and there is still plenty to play for. You're just being silly right now.
Yeah, and I have a shot at going 14-0 in my men's 4.0-4.5 tourney tomorrow. Ain't gonna happen, bub.
What someone needs to do is explain scenarios where we'd make the Crown / how it works. We've been blessed to not have to be concerned about it for a while, but now it's a real thing. If we go 6-5 and 10-10.. maybe 1-1 in BEast.. any chance it gets us to Vegas?
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 21, 2025, 09:13:05 AMYeah, and I have a shot at going 14-0 in my men's 4.0-4.5 tourney tomorrow. Ain't gonna happen, bub.
I believe in Shaka more than I do you though.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 09:15:57 AMI believe in Shaka more than I do you though.
I believe in Shaka too. Im hoping he can see the two easy fixes for this team to make them more competitive, slow down the pace and pack in the d. No need to pressure 40 feet from the hoop with this squad.
Quote from: panda on November 21, 2025, 09:22:23 AMI believe in Shaka too. Im hoping he can see the two easy fixes for this team to make them more competitive, slow down the pace and pack in the d. No need to pressure 40 feet from the hoop with this squad.
We need to figure out getting beat up when we hedge screens w bigs 40 feet away, but re: pack in the d (pawz) would remind you the one thing this defense has going for it is a great def to%.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 21, 2025, 09:28:26 AMWe need to figure out getting beat up when we hedge screens w bigs 40 feet away, but re: pack in the d (pawz) would remind you the one thing this defense has going for it is a great def to%.
I meant no pressuring the ball so far away from the basket not necessarily playing pack line. All good
Quote from: muwarrior97 on November 21, 2025, 09:08:49 AMI agree with this 100% AND I think he will adjust, he has had success with this approach and now they hit a down patch which will lead him to re-evaluate and make some adjustments to the plan. He's never said he's anti-portal and used it before with good success, he's just modified his approach and expected a few of the underclassmen to take the next step and they have not as of yet......there are 25 games left for them get better, I'll be watching them all and reppin' MUBB
I too, agree with Dr V's take.
I don't agree fully when you say he has had success with the model he is promoting just yet.
He won with the talent he had first year. Two big transfers, Jop and Wojos recruits. That kept him successful for four years.
The true test of the Shaka way of doing things was always going to be the second wave of talent.
As Dr. V said Shaka has been let down by the second wave.
I gave a built in excuse for this in some other thread. Great players don't want to come to a school where they will be on the bench for 2-3 years. Maybe it's a simple as that and we need to give him some rope to rebuild again (albeit with much less talented players to start with).
Maybe Shaka and his staff simply overestimated the talent they recruited and none of the above matters.
Maybe we didn't have the money while we were paying Oso, Tyler, and Kam big money at the same time to land a big time recruit.
Whatever the case, the second wave of talent was always going to be the real test for his way of doing things, IMO.
He will need some time to get through this. And it would behoove fans to support the team as best they can in the meantime. Recruits don't like half empty buildings.
I'll still try to get to as many games as possible.
Go MU!
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 04:03:54 AMWe still have a shot at an at large bid and there is still plenty to play for. You're just being silly right now.
(https://y.yarn.co/fa53ef88-b8fe-4e81-ad08-98a8a6ed8170_text.gif)
Quote from: Pakuni on November 20, 2025, 08:43:11 AMOne Sweet 16 and one conference title in 5 years should be the minimum expectation for a program like MU, not a lifetime pass from legitimate criticism.
An NCAA tournament seed is meaningless if you don't take advantage of it. Rather be an 11 and make the Sweet 16 than be a 2 and exit over the first weekend.
Absolutely insane "minimum" expectations for a program with 6 Sweet Sixteens and 4 conference titles in the last 35 years.
Since Al left, Marquette has only made the tournament about 60-65% of the time. Since Crean was hired, it's 64% (16/25, 1 tournament cancelled). I never want Marquette to miss the tournament in a given year, but I also acknowledge that some years just don't work out.
Sure, we all want Marquette to be a powerhouse like the Al McGuire days. But some people want to ignore the last 35-50 years of history and say our "minimum" expectation should exceed what we've done in that time. It's laughable.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on November 21, 2025, 10:27:07 AMBut some people want to ignore the last 35-50 years of history and say our "minimum" expectation should exceed what we've done in that time. It's laughable.
Happens in South Bend, IN all the time.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 04:03:54 AMWe still have a shot at an at large bid and there is still plenty to play for. You're just being silly right now.
Can I please have some of what you are drinking? They have zero shot at an at large bid. Will be lucky to be above .500
Quote from: Captain Quette on November 21, 2025, 10:41:22 AMCan I please have some of what you are drinking? They have zero shot at an at large bid. Will be lucky to be above .500
Sorry but you are wrong.
We have a shot at an at-large bid. If you want me to make a prediction, I would guess the odds are pretty heavy we don't get one. But to claim the season is over and we have no chance is factually wrong.
Remember that my initial response on this is to someone who thinks we should tear off redshirts and play the young guys because the season is "over." Six games in!!!
Quote from: burger on November 21, 2025, 09:01:42 AMI want to know what the odds of being a tourney team are at this point. KenPom. Give it to the fans straight.
Instead of this BS. We have players close to breaking out.
With what I consider 3 bad losses. 2 at home. I would say we are about a 25% chance of making the tourney.
UConn is going to beat us by 40.
Now I know what it feels like to be Providence or Seton Hall. Who will probably both beat us also.
Even DePaul looks better at this point.
I am preparing for really really bad.
What is Shaka's spin if we lose 20?
Only 20? I say we finish 3-29. Absolutely no chance to beat DePaul, Seton Hall or Central Michigan. And your UConn prediction doesn't go far enough; they'll beat us by 400. Twice.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2025, 05:56:15 AMAt least since 1977 when we kicked their ass for the natty.
Yup, joyless willie, we haven't won a single game worth mentioning since. Might as well have folded up the program on March 29, 1977. Coulda used the $$$ to bring back football.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on November 21, 2025, 10:27:07 AMAbsolutely insane "minimum" expectations for a program with 6 Sweet Sixteens and 4 conference titles in the last 35 years.
Since Al left, Marquette has only made the tournament about 60-65% of the time. Since Crean was hired, it's 64% (16/25, 1 tournament cancelled). I never want Marquette to miss the tournament in a given year, but I also acknowledge that some years just don't work out.
Sure, we all want Marquette to be a powerhouse like the Al McGuire days. But some people want to ignore the last 35-50 years of history and say our "minimum" expectation should exceed what we've done in that time. It's laughable.
COLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.
Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "absolutely insane." Apparently, believing Buzz's success at Marquette is repeatable is also "absolutely insane." Shaka's success in his first four seasons at Marquette? "Absolutely insane."
Not too many saying season is over and I guess mathematically there is a chance. "So you're saying there's a chance."
Appreciate your optimism but anyone who's watched this team play or reviewed the roster understands where we stand. Try to be objective when watching this team play, it's not easy but you may see things a bit differently.
I actually think our odds to make tournament are worse next year if shaka rolls w this roster and we lose Chase n Ben.
We are Marquette
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2025, 10:59:48 AMCOLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.
Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "insane."
This will get yelled at, but, Sweet 16's aren't a good measure. Tourney appearances is a better gauge but I won't die on that hill.
Plus, good luck trying to recruit any transfers or high schoolers if you say, had a rough stretch to start the year, we are punting your senior year to develop freshman.
Chase and Ben have given too much to the program to let that happen.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 11:05:55 AMThis will get yelled at, but, Sweet 16's aren't a good measure. Tourney appearances is a better gauge but I won't die on that hill.
That's fine, but I'm not sure it changes my point any. I don't find it insane to set a standard where Marquette performs on the same level as the Wisconsins, Creightons and Xaviers of the world.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2025, 11:11:17 AMThat's fine, but I'm not sure it changes my point any. I don't find it insane to set a standard where Marquette performs on the same level as the Wisconsins, Creightons and Xaviers of the world.
Agree
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 21, 2025, 11:07:37 AMPlus, good luck trying to recruit any transfers or high schoolers if you say, had a rough stretch to start the year, we are punting your senior year to develop freshman.
Chase and Ben have given too much to the program to let that happen.
A program that rewards good play with minutes is very appealing to HS and transfer recruits.
Note: I have not advocated for any player to have their minutes changed.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 21, 2025, 11:28:38 AMA program that rewards good play with minutes is very appealing to HS and transfer recruits.
Note: I have not advocated for any player to have their minutes changed.
But that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2025, 09:18:42 PMGood thing there are separate seasons and not a rolling 12 month record.
...but, you have to acknowledge the trend is troubling
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 20, 2025, 07:17:28 PMBrew,
What are your remedies? Are we bereft of talent or are there any changes we can immediately make? I might try 4 guards with Ben or Royce.
Circling back...I don't know that the remedies we need are on this roster.
We can't create open threes, can't make contested threes, and are poor converting at the rim. It isn't just a starter problem, it's up and down the roster.
Defensively, we don't fight over screens and as a result give up too many open threes, don't have much rim protection, and aren't a good switching team. That makes it easy to get open looks at the perimeter and hunt mismatches inside. Worse, even when we do force turnovers, we're not great at turning them into points.
What's even worse is that our schedule is only going to get harder. We're shooting 31.2% from three overall, but just 27.6% against top-150 opponents. We're 58.4% at the rim, but that drops to 50.4% against top-150.
I'm looking for optimism, but it's hard to come by.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2025, 10:59:48 AMCOLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes. Thank goodness the administration didn't feel that way.
I see the Crean, Buzz and Shaka eras and say "that's what MU can and should be." I see the Dukiet, Deane and Wojo eras and say they failed to live up to the standard.
Since 2000, Xavier has made eight Sweet 16 appearances. Wisconsin has 10. Creighton has made three in just the last four years.
Apparently, believing Marquette belongs in the same neighborhood as these storied programs is "absolutely insane." Apparently, believing Buzz's success at Marquette is repeatable is also "absolutely insane." Shaka's success in his first four seasons at Marquette? "Absolutely insane."
actually, go back a few yrs farther. Raymonds takes over for AL...HC and AD. Things slide, understandable. Tough to replace a legend AND the landscape of college hoops was changing. Five yrs on, Raymond's retires as coach, stays as AD. Majerus up(my era). NIT city! Change made, for piano man. Ugh. So, in comes KO. He deserves serious credit for getting the ship floating again. MU doesn't adjust. KO gone! In comes Deane. He's ok, then not. You know the rest. We've been down this road before, unfortunately. And, I have no feel for how this plays out other than this year is likely a bust. But, in this era of big $, aggression wins...either via the portal, recruiting HS talent...preferably both. Hoping Shaka's plan equals V.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 11:32:29 AMBut that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.
I disagree regarding the redshirts, especially Sheek, since he should still be in high school. Let him use this year to develop physically and mentally for the college game. If Shaka thought they could countribute this year they'd be playing.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 07:21:36 AMThat was 50 years ago. You could smoke unfiltereds at the bar and broads were still in the kitchen where they belonged but then woke happened and we can't smoke and broads wear trousers. SMDH
I think you need to go to the 1940s or 1950s to hear the term broads.
The Woman Liberation movement was in full swing in the 1970s.
I think in the 1970s MU enrollment was close to 50% male and 50% female.
But some things come back. The younger generations hair today could pass for the 1970s.
We can wish the quality level of music of the 1970s would come back. So many classics.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 21, 2025, 12:09:34 PMsince he should still be in high school
C'mon, he's older that Markus was... :P
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 21, 2025, 12:14:35 PMI think in the 1970s MU enrollment was close to 50% male and 50% female.
Right, but back then they just became teachers and nurses before retiring and pumping out kids like God intended.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 21, 2025, 12:15:52 PMC'mon, he's older that Markus was... :P
yeah, forgot about that. Besides, we all know 17 year old 6-11 205 centers are ready to dominate the high major college game. :P
5.8% chance of making it per Torvik.
https://barttorvik.com/tranketology.php
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 12:16:24 PMRight, but back then they just became teachers and nurses before retiring and pumping out kids like God intended.
I think you just insulted a lot of career woman in other professions from the 1970s.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 11:32:29 AMBut that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.
Fair point that I errored on.
On a separate topic, I'm not in favor of rewarding players with playing time based upon time in the program and I don't think most HC in college do that, nor do most players expect it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2025, 12:04:56 PMCircling back...I don't know that the remedies we need are on this roster.
We can't create open threes, can't make contested threes, and are poor converting at the rim. It isn't just a starter problem, it's up and down the roster.
Defensively, we don't fight over screens and as a result give up too many open threes, don't have much rim protection, and aren't a good switching team. That makes it easy to get open looks at the perimeter and hunt mismatches inside. Worse, even when we do force turnovers, we're not great at turning them into points.
What's even worse is that our schedule is only going to get harder. We're shooting 31.2% from three overall, but just 27.6% against top-150 opponents. We're 58.4% at the rim, but that drops to 50.4% against top-150.
I'm looking for optimism, but it's hard to come by.
And that's what Shaka's job is. He has to adjust what they planned to do of offense entirely. Figuring out something this fundamental in late November usually isn't a recipe for success though. I'm sure it is keeping him up all night.
Probably need to get compliance to work harder on getting the Greek kid with the funny name eligible by second semester.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2025, 01:15:21 PMProbably need to get compliance to work harder on getting the Greek kid with the funny name eligible by second semester.
He'd just be watching on the sidelines alongside Sean. :(
Quote from: NCMUFan on November 21, 2025, 12:26:04 PMI think you just insulted a lot of career woman in other professions from the 1970s.
Those career women need to read a Bible and know their role.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 01:36:08 PMThose career women need to read a Bible and know their role.
Right. Just think what would have happened if Mary Magdalene would have become an accountant.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 01:38:43 PMRight. Just think what would have happened if Mary Magdalene would have become an accountant.
Shudders at the thought. We'd probably have seen broads knees in public a lot earlier in history.
I am bracing for the reality that this might very well be Shaka's worst season (W/L-wise) in his career (he went 11-22 at Texas in his second year). It could very well also be the worst Marquette season since the 80's (right now, we are projected to be 13-15, and 10-10 in BE play (I have seen nothing from the first six games that would lead me to believe that we should project for ten wins in conference play).
As we continue to dissect and over analyze the metrics and deficiencies of this team, another evaluation question for the staff to ponder is why did we not schedule lighter in non-con (if there was the significant drop off in talent from last year)? I guess it answers itself by the intentional decision to not enter the transfer portal and run it back with the group from last year (that also did not show much in the way projected difference makers).
Would have loved to replace the Indiana and Oklahoma games as one-offs. Dayton, Maryland and Purdue would the second part of home/homes. I guess, to nit-pick, did we really need another two high-major games after Wisconsin, Purdue and Maryland (won't include Dayton in that group, despite them beating us twice)?
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on November 21, 2025, 01:47:19 PMI am bracing for the reality that this might very well be Shaka's worst season (W/L-wise) in his career (he went 11-22 at Texas in his second year). It could very well also be the worst Marquette season since the 80's (right now, we are projected to be 13-15, and 10-10 in BE play (I have seen nothing from the first six games that would lead me to believe that we should project for ten wins in conference play).
As we continue to dissect and over analyze the metrics and deficiencies of this team, another evaluation question for the staff to ponder is why did we not schedule lighter in non-con (if there was the significant drop off in talent from last year)? I guess it answers itself by the intentional decision to not enter the transfer portal and run it back with the group from last year (that also did not show much in the way projected difference makers).
Would have loved to replace the Indiana and Oklahoma games as one-offs. Dayton, Maryland and Purdue would the second part of home/homes. I guess, to nit-pick, did we really need another two high-major games after Wisconsin, Purdue and Maryland (won't include Dayton in that group, despite them beating us twice)?
Oh hell no. Play a tough schedule regardless. Don't dumb down the season.
It's not like this was a crazy tough schedule. Purdue and Wisconsin are good. Are Maryland and Dayton even bubble teams?
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 01:49:01 PMOh hell no. Play a tough schedule regardless. Don't dumb down the season.
Agree. No interest in 8 buy games. Sooner or later, the flaws of this team were going to be exposed. May as well happen in the first two weeks.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 01:49:01 PMOh hell no. Play a tough schedule regardless. Don't dumb down the season.
Good thing we're afraid to play UWM or this year would have been a problem
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 21, 2025, 01:50:40 PMIt's not like this was a crazy tough schedule. Purdue and Wisconsin are good. Are Maryland, IU and Dayton even bubble teams?
The Scoop Mushrooms.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 10:45:43 AMSorry but you are wrong.
We have a shot at an at-large bid. If you want me to make a prediction, I would guess the odds are pretty heavy we don't get one. But to claim the season is over and we have no chance is factually wrong.
Remember that my initial response on this is to someone who thinks we should tear off redshirts and play the young guys because the season is "over." Six games in!!!
Hilarious you think this team has ANY shot at being in the at-large conversation.
Are we even watching the same sport?? What are you smoking?
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 11:32:29 AMBut that's not what onepost et. al. were aruging. They were arguing that Shaka should remove the redshirts and play the young guys because the season is over and we need to see if they can play. The implication is that some of the better players would have their time cut for the sake of the younger players.
Nowhere am I saying guys like Chase, Ben, Zaide should not be playing as many minutes as they deserve. I'm embarrassed I have to even clarify that. What I'm saying is that now is the time to see what you have and get the young guys as much game experience as you possibly can. Otherwise next season is gonna be even worse than this dumpster fire.
And to reiterate, nowhere did I say Sheek should get a redshirt pulled. He's 100 pounds soaking wet and moved up a class (the main reason Marquette was able to land him), so of course he needs the season to get stronger. I'm saying we need to find out if Damarius, Michael, Josh can cut it here. If Damarius continues to be a complete disaster against good teams despite extended PT, time to move on rather than keep him on this team and waste a scholarship.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 01:58:35 PMGood thing we're afraid to play UWM or this year would have been a problem
If Rico says it, I have to believe it.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 02:41:26 PMHilarious you think this team has ANY shot at being in the at-large conversation.
Are we even watching the same sport?? What are you smoking?
Of course they have a shot. Do I think they will? Likely not, but to claim they don't have a shot after six games is a loser's mentality.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 02:45:08 PMNowhere am I saying guys like Chase, Ben, Zaide should not be playing as many minutes as they deserve. I'm embarrassed I have to even clarify that. What I'm saying is that now is the time to see what you have and get the young guys as much game experience as you possibly can. Otherwise next season is gonna be even worse than this dumpster fire.
How do you get young guys "as much game experience as you possibly can," without playing Chase, Ben and Zaide "as many minutes as they deserve?" Are you suggesting 6 on 5?
You are just saying sh*t that doesn't make any sense and isn't how any coach thinks.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 03:18:19 PMOf course they have a shot. Do I think they will? Likely not, but to claim they don't have a shot after six games is a loser's mentality.
I would argue a loser's mentality is being ok with this product when today's landscape allows you to be good every single season.
A loser's mentality, in my opinion, is accepting this plan and realizing we won't be a true contending team until 2027-2028.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 03:20:57 PMI would argue a loser's mentality is being ok with this product when today's landscape allows you to be good every single season.
A loser's mentality, in my opinion, is accepting this plan and realizing we won't be a true contending team until 2027-2028.
Agreed with the first sentence.
Regarding the second, what choice to I have other than to "accept this plan?" I guess I could just not watch, but I'm not a season ticket holder, so...what...write a sternly worded letter?
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 03:20:38 PMHow do you get young guys "as much game experience as you possibly can," without playing Chase, Ben and Zaide "as many minutes as they deserve?" Are you suggesting 6 on 5?
You are just saying sh*t that doesn't make any sense and isn't how any coach thinks.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Good God, I forgot how literal this board takes everything.
Play the younger guys more minutes to get them game reps and see how they fit:
literally all I'm saying.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 03:23:38 PMAgreed with the first sentence.
Regarding the second, what choice to I have other than to "accept this plan?" I guess I could just not watch, but I'm not a season ticket holder, so...what...write a sternly worded letter?
Yeah at the end of the day, the second point is where my annoying bitching and moaning comes from.
I find Shaka's plan unacceptable at a school like Marquette. And I'm yelling to the void since none of us have any influence to change it.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 03:23:56 PMThe two are not mutually exclusive. Good God, I forgot how literal this board takes everything.
Play the younger guys more minutes to get them game reps and see how they fit: literally all I'm saying.
You are saying two things that are indeed mutually exclusive. But I guess you don't understand that...
Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2025, 03:26:43 PMYou are saying two things that are indeed mutually exclusive. But I guess you don't understand that...
I understand that. I guess that's easier than saying "don't play Sean, Caedin, or Tre any more minutes since I don't believe they deserve to play/can stay healthy enough to play meaningful minutes for Marquette".
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 03:20:57 PMI would argue a loser's mentality is being ok with this product when today's landscape allows you to be good every single season.
A loser's mentality, in my opinion, is accepting this plan and realizing we won't be a true contending team until 2027-2028.
Who is "accepting" anything? What do you want any of us to do about it?
If it's OK with you, I'm gonna keep watching our games this season. I'm even making the long trip to go to a couple games in January. I'll pull for the team. I'll get frustrated plenty, as has already been the case. Hopefully there also will be some good things that give me more hope. The other option - just not watching or caring - isn't an option for me.
Sure we are all MU fans.
This is what fans do.
Folks who are upset, the boat has left the port. We sail with who we have this year.
No amount of bitching on this board changes that. In fact, no amount of bitching on this board changes anything, period.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 21, 2025, 04:15:50 PMFolks who are upset, the boat has left the port. We sail with who we have this year.
No amount of bitching on this board changes that. In fact, no amount of bitching on this board changes anything, period.
What about all of the hilarious jokes geeko makes? Does that change anything?
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2025, 03:40:52 PMWho is "accepting" anything? What do you want any of us to do about it?
The people just shrugging off a terrible season with no stakes and buying into a model that will leave us even worse next season. That's what I take issue with.
Nothing! Literally what is the point of a message board then? Nothing we say matters anyway so what's the point in saying it at all?
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 04:30:22 PMThe people just shrugging off a terrible season with no stakes and buying into a model that will leave us even worse next season. That's what I take issue with.
Nothing! Literally what is the point of a message board then? Nothing we say matters anyway so what's the point in saying it at all?
Apathy is worse than bitching. When apathy sets in, then the program is truly in trouble. Negative passion isn't always helpful or good but people caring because they want to see better results beats apathy.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 04:49:09 PMApathy is worse than bitching. When apathy sets in, then the program is truly in trouble. Negative passion isn't always helpful or good but people caring because they want to see better results beats apathy.
Absolutely. I'm currently at the annoying bitching stage.
Want nothing less than to get to the 2020-2021 Wojo era levels of apathy again.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 03:26:23 PMYeah at the end of the day, the second point is where my annoying bitching and moaning comes from.
I find Shaka's plan unacceptable at a school like Marquette. And I'm yelling to the void since none of us have any influence to change it.
How much do you donate to the Athletic Department?
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 04:51:02 PMAbsolutely. I'm currently at the annoying bitching stage.
Want nothing less than to get to the 2020-2021 Wojo era levels of apathy again.
I think Brew is right. Shaka will be gone before that happens. The good news is, he has the past 4 years of success unlike Wojo, so I think 99% of the fanbase is pulling for him to succeed and fix things. The passion for the program is in the right place
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 04:30:22 PMThe people just shrugging off a terrible season with no stakes and buying into a model that will leave us even worse next season. That's what I take issue with.
Nothing! Literally what is the point of a message board then? Nothing we say matters anyway so what's the point in saying it at all?
Few here are "shrugging off" anything. I know I'm not. I am a realist, though.
Glad you're able to blow off steam. Cheaper than a session with a shrink.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 04:55:03 PMI think Brew is right. Shaka will be gone before that happens. The good news is, he has the past 4 years of success unlike Wojo, so I think 99% of the fanbase is pulling for him to succeed and fix things. The passion for the program is in the right place
I love Shaka and am incredibly thankful for the success he's had at my alma mater. I want him to be the head coach at Marquette for another decade.
That doesn't make him immune to valid criticisms about the way he is building his program, and the obvious shortcomings he's had despite said success. To me and others, his stubbornness and refusal to continue the ways that have made him successful, when it's clear the route he prefers hasn't been very good, is giving me doubt he can be that guy.
Quote from: panda on November 21, 2025, 04:26:17 PMWhat about all of the hilarious jokes geeko makes? Does that change anything?
It obviously doesn't change his residence in your head.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 05:01:20 PMI love Shaka and am incredibly thankful for the success he's had at my alma mater. I want him to be the head coach at Marquette for another decade.
That doesn't make him immune to valid criticisms about the way he is building his program, and the obvious shortcomings he's had despite said success. To me and others, his stubbornness and refusal to continue the ways that have made him successful, when it's clear the route he prefers hasn't been very good, is giving me doubt he can be that guy.
I'm not sure how anyone can disagree with that.
It was fair to wonder why he didn't have another PG last year when it was clear Sean Jones couldn't play. It's fair to ask why they didn't have at least a vet big man, even a Jayce Johnson this year.
Yes, I know the scholarship restraints but someone said it earlier and I apologize for not quoting them, but relationships are about honesty and being honest with a kid he isn't good enough to play in the Big East, while uncomfortable, is part of the job and part of being in a relationship as player-coach.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2025, 05:06:07 PMI'm not sure how anyone can disagree with that.
It was fair to wonder why he didn't have another PG last year when it was clear Sean Jones couldn't play. It's fair to ask why they didn't have at least a vet big man, even a Jayce Johnson this year.
Yes, I know the scholarship restraints but someone said it earlier and I apologize for not quoting them, but relationships are about honesty and being honest with a kid he isn't good enough to play in the Big East, while uncomfortable, is part of the job and part of being in a relationship as player-coach.
I think maybe Brew said that? I know a few people have shared the sentiment, but couldn't agree more with everything you said.
I feel bad hammering kids like Caedin, Tre, Al, Keeyan, so I need to be more mindful of being so hard on the guys themselves. They're doing the best they can. But it speaks to your point that the R in RGV is just as much about being fair to the player (maybe moving down a level) as it is nurturing their growth at Marquette itself.
Shaka has missed on quite a few high school recruits, so I guess my Ian RS hypothetical is mainly to say I wish he would start coming to those conclusions (or being willing) earlier than he has been to this point.
From the sounds of it, the staff was surprised that Al Amadou left the program last spring, which....doesn't give me much confidence that timeline gets accelerated any time soon.
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2025, 05:02:07 PMIt obviously doesn't change his residence in your head.
No matter what you say here, he's not going to date you.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 04:30:22 PMLiterally what is the point of a message board then? Nothing we say matters anyway so what's the point in saying it at all?
I guess it's because we're a group of people who are hooked on MU hoops and can't help ourselves. As disappointed and pissed off as I am at the abysmal product MU is putting on the floor this year, I somehow enjoy hearing the thoughts of others so affected.It's good to know that others feel the same way and it's interesting to see people with varying approaches to the problem.
Quote from: panda on November 21, 2025, 05:48:04 PMNo matter what you say here, he's not going to date you.
You don't know that.
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2025, 06:13:03 PMYou don't know that.
Geeko has higher standards than you
I don't care if they win any more games than 1 more as long as that one is beating the Badgers. Yea, that's the type of season we have been handed.
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2025, 10:53:32 AMOnly 20? I say we finish 3-29. Absolutely no chance to beat DePaul, Seton Hall or Central Michigan. And your UConn prediction doesn't go far enough; they'll beat us by 400. Twice.
Yup, joyless willie, we haven't won a single game worth mentioning since. Might as well have folded up the program on March 29, 1977. Coulda used the $$$ to bring back football.
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 21, 2025, 06:19:27 PMI don't care if they win any more games than 1 more as long as that one is beating the Badgers. Yea, that's the type of season we have been handed.
You missed reading comprehension. That is not what I said in answer to the question posed in the post I responded to. Go back and brush up.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 21, 2025, 10:59:48 AMCOLE. You're basically arguing that the Dukiet/Deane/Wojo years of MU basketball are acceptable outcomes.
Not what I said, but you already knew that.
But let's forget about the dead weight coaches and narrow our scope to just the three most successful MU coaches this century: Crean, Buzz, and Shaka.
After this season, that's a total of 20 years that trio has coached at Marquette. I'm going to project Marquette doesn't win the BE or make the tournament this season.
14/20 NCAA bids (70%; not sure if this meets Pakuni's expectations)
3 conference titles (according to the Pakuni standard, Marquette should have a minimum of 4)
5 Sweet Sixteens (better than Pakuni's expectations of 4)
So even the three best coaches at MU this century are a mixed bag on meeting "the minimum" expectations. It's kinda nuts (to me at least) that the BEST success MU has had is considered "the minimum" expectation by some.
Now, that doesn't mean Marquette shouldn't strive for more. A national title in my lifetime is my ultimate hope.
Quote from: onepost on November 21, 2025, 05:01:20 PMI love Shaka and am incredibly thankful for the success he's had at my alma mater. I want him to be the head coach at Marquette for another decade.
That doesn't make him immune to valid criticisms about the way he is building his program, and the obvious shortcomings he's had despite said success. To me and others, his stubbornness and refusal to continue the ways that have made him successful, when it's clear the route he prefers hasn't been very good, is giving me doubt he can be that guy.
'I love Shaka and am incredibly thankful for the success he's had at my alma mater. I want him to be the head coach at Marquette for another decade.' Not if things don't change. Hoping 2025/26 is an anomaly, a one-off.
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 21, 2025, 06:19:27 PMI don't care if they win any more games than 1 more as long as that one is beating the Badgers. Yea, that's the type of season we have been handed.
amen!
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 21, 2025, 06:19:27 PMI don't care if they win any more games than 1 more as long as that one is beating the Badgers. Yea, that's the type of season we have been handed.
The Badgers with their portal players gave up 90+ and lost bigly. I was told that doesn't happen to teams with portal players.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 21, 2025, 07:35:46 PMThe Badgers with their portal players gave up 90+ and lost bigly. I was told that doesn't happen to teams with portal players.
Gard doesn't know ball
Quote from: Viper on November 21, 2025, 07:40:24 PMGard doesn't know ball
He certainly pushed all the right buttons today. A regular coach would have lost by 30+.
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2025, 10:53:32 AMOnly 20? I say we finish 3-29. Absolutely no chance to beat DePaul, Seton Hall or Central Michigan. And your UConn prediction doesn't go far enough; they'll beat us by 400. Twice.
Actually, after seeing BYU throttle Wisconsin, 400 might be a good over bet for MU/UConn
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 21, 2025, 07:35:46 PMThe Badgers with their portal players gave up 90+ and lost bigly. I was told that doesn't happen to teams with portal players.
No you weren't.