I know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected. Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve.
My take is that we often overhedge and overpressure. Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession. I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better. Know your opponent and the games. I'm not sure that was the case today. Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?
As far as the interior is concerned? I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg. Are they too upright? Not quick enough vs the perimeter? Reach too much? We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 04:49:09 PMI know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected. Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve.
My take is that we often overhedge and overpressure. Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession. I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better. Know your opponent and the games. I'm not sure that was the case today. Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?
As far as the interior is concerned? I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg. Are they too upright? Not quick enough vs the perimeter? Reach too much? We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold.
You can't play this kind of defense without shooting better.
Need to be more medieval....
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 15, 2025, 04:53:32 PMNeed to be more medieval....
My terminology isn't the problem. Rico is right: 11-40 from 3? 9-20 from 2 feet? Ridiculous percentages.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 04:54:55 PMMy terminology isn't the problem. Rico is right: 11-40 from 3? 9-20 from 2 feet? Ridiculous percentages.
Far easier to press and attack off made baskets. Even then, you better be solid defensively in the middle to do so to help erase when pressure is broken.
Shaka brought in Luke Yaklich when his defense struggled at Texas. If the season goes badly, he'll have to reevaluate the staff and make changes.
When the pressure doesn't work it becomes a layup line. More concerning is the set
halfcourt D - there have been multiple instances of a lack of communication where instead of calling the switch two guys go with one opponent leaving another totally alone - with predictable results.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2025, 06:53:41 PMWhen the pressure doesn't work it becomes a layup line. More concerning is the set
halfcourt D - there have been multiple instances of a lack of communication where instead of calling the switch two guys go with one opponent leaving another totally alone - with predictable results.
We may have to abandon the Caedin/Ben combo?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 06:59:09 PMWe may have to abandon the Caedin/Ben combo?
There was one steal Caedin had in the second half where I think he was the only person more surprised than I was that he stripped it. Managed to get it to a guard to turn upcourt, but him making a positive defensive play felt shocking. I genuinely don't know what he does in practice to convince the staff he's earning these minutes.
Could move Ben back to center. Our D is atrocious, and this year it was supposed to be good. We gave up 373 points in 5 games and 2 cupcakes are disguising the real rate. Man. Very surprised by this
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2025, 10:57:08 PMThere was one steal Caedin had in the second half where I think he was the only person more surprised than I was that he stripped it. Managed to get it to a guard to turn upcourt, but him making a positive defensive play felt shocking. I genuinely don't know what he does in practice to convince the staff he's earning these minutes.
Ask one of Rothstein's moles who rave about him every year. Feels like a coach's son type situation in youth basketball at this point, which is the most concerning thing to me. I'm not optimistic he turns it around and would prefer we don't run it back with him next year. I feel bad that I feel this way.
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 15, 2025, 11:28:22 PMAsk one of Rothstein's moles who rave about him every year. Feels like a coach's son type situation in youth basketball at this point, which is the most concerning thing to me. I'm not optimistic he turns it around and would prefer we don't run it back with him next year. I feel bad that I feel this way.
I heard similar things out of practice this summer and was very skeptical (hence "Fetch") that he would be the difference maker they claimed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2025, 11:30:24 PMI heard similar things out of practice this summer and was very skeptical (hence "Fetch") that he would be the difference maker they claimed.
I understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2025, 07:21:38 AMI understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.
agreed. I mean, no fg attempts? Did take 7 FT's, so there's that. But even 6pts/6tebs per, which seems pedestrian for a starter in his 3rd year in the program, apparently is too much to hope for. I feel like Parnham will get it going, but if Hamilton and Owens are what they are, it's difficult to overcome.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2025, 07:21:38 AMI understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.
I imagine it's because they think he could develop into a solid Big East starter. He's shown flashes of passing, his body has improved, but I'm guessing it might be that he looks good in practice because he has a physical advantage on Parham and experience advantage on Clark, who are similarly not there yet.
Quote from: Viper on November 16, 2025, 07:37:28 AMagreed. I mean, no fg attempts? Did take 7 FT's, so there's that. But even 6pts/6tebs per, which seems pedestrian for a starter in his 3rd year in the program, apparently is too much to hope for. I feel like Parnham will get it going, but if Hamilton and Owens are what they are, it's difficult to overcome.
Who is Parnham?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2025, 07:46:09 AMWho is Parnham?
misspelled. My bad. Sorry to the guy. I think you know who I'm referring to.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 04:49:09 PMI know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected. Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve.
My take is that we often overhedge and overpressure. Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession. I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better. Know your opponent and the games. I'm not sure that was the case today. Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?
As far as the interior is concerned? I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg. Are they too upright? Not quick enough vs the perimeter? Reach too much? We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold.
Can't believe you started a new thread.
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2025, 01:41:11 PMCan't believe you started a new thread.
This is why I now hate the animal kingdom
Didn't watch the game. Based on the other games, the defensive issues are a lack of communication and, related, poor help. A slightly different scheme this year, too. The bigs are staying home. Hence Ben averaging 8.5 rebounds a game and flirting with double doubles. In past seasons, MU would switch 1-5 and, probably due to so many years playing together and near infinite reps, the switches were automatic, the trap were autimatic, the help was automatic. The weakness was poor interior defense and poor defensive rebounding. Oso and Ben were frequently near the perimeter when the shot went up.
They started adjusting it slightly last season. Ben stayed home more on the post players and had some phenomenal defensive games. Joplin worked his butt off and played a decent defensive 4. Royce and Caedin played poor defense.
This season, they are absolutely not switching 1-5. They are switching less than ever before. IMO, the coaching staff thought they had the length, speed, and athleticism to guard more straight up. It hasn't worked. Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one. And they are equally lost on the helps. When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover. And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.
Like the discussion of the offense getting to the next action, the defense has to understand the next action, the next rotation, the next help.
I wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it. So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.
Based on Shaka's presser, practice today will be noisy.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 04:49:09 PMI know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected. Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve.
My take is that we often overhedge and overpressure. Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession. I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better. Know your opponent and the games. I'm not sure that was the case today. Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?
Becomes a bigger problem when the supposed pressure D is not generating steals, and even the deflections have been down against non-cupcakes.
Quote from: tower912 on November 17, 2025, 07:47:26 AMIt hasn't worked. Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one. And they are equally lost on the helps. When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover. And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.
All I can add to your spot on comments is the word "how" to when and where.
Quote from: tower912 on November 17, 2025, 07:47:26 AMI wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it. So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.
This feels right. When Owens, Parham, & Hamilton look less comfortable on defense than NJ & Stevens who just got here, that's a problem.
It feels like part of the problem may be the staff's own success. O-Max, Oso, TK, Kam, Stevie, Jop, Gold, Chase, they all developed in relatively short order into good to great defenders. It might've created the belief that would continue, but it doesn't seem to. And when it's backed up by unreliable offense from the same class of sophomores, it really leaves a gap in the rotation.
Quote from: tower912 on November 17, 2025, 07:47:26 AMDidn't watch the game. Based on the other games, the defensive issues are a lack of communication and, related, poor help. A slightly different scheme this year, too. The bigs are staying home. Hence Ben averaging 8.5 rebounds a game and flirting with double doubles. In past seasons, MU would switch 1-5 and, probably due to so many years playing together and near infinite reps, the switches were automatic, the trap were autimatic, the help was automatic. The weakness was poor interior defense and poor defensive rebounding. Oso and Ben were frequently near the perimeter when the shot went up.
They started adjusting it slightly last season. Ben stayed home more on the post players and had some phenomenal defensive games. Joplin worked his butt off and played a decent defensive 4. Royce and Caedin played poor defense.
This season, they are absolutely not switching 1-5. They are switching less than ever before. IMO, the coaching staff thought they had the length, speed, and athleticism to guard more straight up. It hasn't worked. Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one. And they are equally lost on the helps. When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover. And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.
Like the discussion of the offense getting to the next action, the defense has to understand the next action, the next rotation, the next help.
I wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it. So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.
Based on Shaka's presser, practice today will be noisy.
I'm just an ignorant lurker and eternal optimist, but based on your analysis these issues seem fixable this year. It doesn't seem to be about talent.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 17, 2025, 08:51:29 AMThis feels right. When Owens, Parham, & Hamilton look less comfortable on defense than NJ & Stevens who just got here, that's a problem.
It feels like part of the problem may be the staff's own success. O-Max, Oso, TK, Kam, Stevie, Jop, Gold, Chase, they all developed in relatively short order into good to great defenders. It might've created the belief that would continue, but it doesn't seem to. And when it's backed up by unreliable offense from the same class of sophomores, it really leaves a gap in the rotation.
My counter here would be that those guys probably developed into good defenders because they were given tons of game minutes early in their career. For a lot of these guys, they haven't had the minutes to grow. You can only develop so much in practice.
I have no idea if Royce or DO or Hamilton will develop into good defenders. But I do remember TK, Kam, Jop, Oso, and Ben struggling on that side of the ball and eventually improving with more time. The guys who have been in the rotation (Chase, Ben, Zaide) all seem to understand the system and defend. I think Royce will get there. DO might. I just don't know if it'll be in time to salvage this year.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 06:59:09 PMWe may have to abandon the Caedin/Ben combo?
Caedin is not a D1 player. Offense, defense, rebounding.
Seems like a great guy with a great attitude, but playing a level too high.
not sure if this was shared already:
https://painttouches.com/2025/11/17/whats-up-with-marquettes-defense-and-other-notes/
Quote from: Jockey on November 17, 2025, 02:15:50 PMCaedin is not a D1 player. Offense, defense, rebounding.
I think this overestimates the quality you may see at a place like Chicago State
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 17, 2025, 02:19:31 PMnot sure if this was shared already:
https://painttouches.com/2025/11/17/whats-up-with-marquettes-defense-and-other-notes/
There is a whole topic about it.
Quote from: Jockey on November 17, 2025, 02:15:50 PMCaedin is not a D1 player. Offense, defense, rebounding.
Seems like a great guy with a great attitude, but playing a level too high.
He's absolutely a D1 player. He may not be a major guy though.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 17, 2025, 02:19:31 PMnot sure if this was shared already:
https://painttouches.com/2025/11/17/whats-up-with-marquettes-defense-and-other-notes/
Caedin & Clark are big reasons why. Parham isn't much better on D. That leaves Gold as our only decent defender over 6'5". Hard to stop teams at the rim with this.
Shaka 2 zone so MP can play
Josh Clark's capacity to learn on the job, and be able to block shots consistently, will determine whether Shaka can stick with the agressive/gambling overplaying perimeter D. It's a fun brand of basketball to watch, but only if and when there's an interior firewall. Imagine this team with a McIlvaine in the middle. Would lead the country in steals and blocks. We can dream.
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on November 18, 2025, 12:31:37 PMwill determine whether Shaka can stick with the agressive/gambling overplaying perimeter D.
Maybe they can try an aggressive style instead?
Quote from: GoFastAndWin on November 18, 2025, 12:31:37 PMJosh Clark's capacity to learn on the job, and be able to block shots consistently, will determine whether Shaka can stick with the agressive/gambling overplaying perimeter D. It's a fun brand of basketball to watch, but only if and when there's an interior firewall. Imagine this team with a McIlvaine in the middle. Would lead the country in steals and blocks. We can dream.
Clark is not a high major player. He will have little effect on the defense.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 18, 2025, 01:03:59 PMMaybe they can try an aggressive style instead?
Good catch. Lack of commas for my redundancy as well. Bench me for sloppy posting.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2025, 07:21:38 AMI understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.
The trouble is when the confidence has been built, but the player does not perform to the expectations placed by that confidence. Eventually, they figure it out and they feel like they've been lied to, or are a let down. It's a dangerous game.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 19, 2025, 10:17:20 AMThe trouble is when the confidence has been built, but the player does not perform to the expectations placed by that confidence. Eventually, they figure it out and they feel like they've been lied to, or are a let down. It's a dangerous game.
Agreed - nothing about it makes much sense.
Quote from: Jockey on November 18, 2025, 01:16:20 PMClark is not a high major player. He will have little effect on the defense.
I've seen little to indicate that Clark isn't a high major player. Raw, sure. Inserted too soon out of necessity, yes. But he has had some blocks, dunks, and finishes through five games that we haven't seen from Caedin in 1+ years. I'd be surprised if he wasn't a 4 year contributor and good player down the line.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 19, 2025, 11:46:42 AMI've seen little to indicate that Clark isn't a high major player. Raw, sure. Inserted too soon out of necessity, yes. But he has had some blocks, dunks, and finishes through five games that we haven't seen from Caedin in 1+ years. I'd be surprised if he wasn't a 4 year contributor and good player down the line.
Yeah, I don't know if he will or won't be a good player for us ... but completely writing him off already as a wasted scholarship, as some Scoopers have, seems pretty crazy.
Those same folks would've written off Frank Kaminsky, too.
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2025, 02:26:19 PMYeah, I don't know if he will or won't be a good player for us ... but completely writing him off already as a wasted scholarship, as some Scoopers have, seems pretty crazy.
Those same folks would've written off Frank Kaminsky, too.
I remember when they said the same about JFB
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 19, 2025, 05:03:24 PMI remember when they said the same about JFB
Really? That was before my time on Scoop.
JFB was always a hustle guy and had noticeable athleticism who could play defense even in limited minutes his first year. We tend to remember the fringe scooper opinions and not those of the vast majority.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 19, 2025, 06:12:26 PMJFB was always a hustle guy and had noticeable athleticism who could play defense even in limited minutes his first year. We tend to remember the fringe scooper opinions and not those of the vast majority.
But it was said...