- Two decisive losses to teams made up entirely of transfers and new players. That's not a good result for the RGV plan.
- Given the circumstances, this is a game you simply cannot lose. They were down two starters, three when Payne got injured.
- Marquette won offensive rebounds 20-4. Second chance points 25-6. Took 76 FGA to 55 for Maryland. Won the turnover battle and fast break points. None of that mattered.
- Career night from Chase. Flashes of brilliance from Nigel and Zaide. Ben was good in spurts.
- So why'd we lose? Not good enough shooting, 27.5% from three. So many missed layups. Combined 12/34 (6/19 from 3) from Zaide and Ben wasn't enough.
- Fetch isn't happening. Feels like the staff evaluation of Hamilton, Owens, and Sean are just way off.
- Really thought we'd have a solid defense, but 1.16 ppp for Maryland with THAT roster is embarrassing. They are not good, but we were clearly worse.
- It feels like it has to be hyperbolic, but the season feels over before Thanksgiving. This is a bad loss, Purdue and Bucky look like unscalable mountains, and the Big East won't offer many resume building opportunities.
- I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff.
Year 5 should have been the culmination of the RGV approach - not a reset - your roster is full of your guys who have done your system. As always, I'd rather see us win in March in November, but at this rate we won't be playing for much in March.
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 03:59:49 PM- Two decisive losses to teams made up entirely of transfers and new players. That's not a good result for the RGV plan.
- Given the circumstances, this is a game you simply cannot lose. They were down two starters, three when Payne got injured.
- Marquette won offensive rebounds 20-4. Second chance points 25-6. Took 76 FGA to 55 for Maryland. Won the turnover battle and fast break points. None of that mattered.
- Career night from Chase. Flashes of brilliance from Nigel and Zaide. Ben was good in spurts.
- So why'd we lose? Not good enough shooting, 27.5% from three. So many missed layups. Combined 12/34 (6/19 from 3) from Zaide and Ben wasn't enough.
- Fetch isn't happening. Feels like the staff evaluation of Hamilton, Owens, and Sean are just way off.
- Really thought we'd have a solid defense, but 1.16 ppp for Maryland with THAT roster is embarrassing. They are not good, but we were clearly worse.
- It feels like it has to be hyperbolic, but the season feels over before Thanksgiving. This is a bad loss, Purdue and Bucky look like unscalable mountains, and the Big East won't offer many resume building opportunities.
- I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff.
We could cover a lot up if we bring back the Warriors nickname
Brew hit it. Season is over. They should be burning the redshirts and seeing what's there. You're not getting anything new out of guys like Tre. See if anything here is worth salvaging
Career night from Chase offensively, but his defense (which was either "lazy" or "tired"), was a problem at times.
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 03:59:49 PM- Two decisive losses to teams made up entirely of transfers and new players. That's not a good result for the RGV plan.
- Given the circumstances, this is a game you simply cannot lose. They were down two starters, three when Payne got injured.
- Marquette won offensive rebounds 20-4. Second chance points 25-6. Took 76 FGA to 55 for Maryland. Won the turnover battle and fast break points. None of that mattered.
- Career night from Chase. Flashes of brilliance from Nigel and Zaide. Ben was good in spurts.
- So why'd we lose? Not good enough shooting, 27.5% from three. So many missed layups. Combined 12/34 (6/19 from 3) from Zaide and Ben wasn't enough.
- Fetch isn't happening. Feels like the staff evaluation of Hamilton, Owens, and Sean are just way off.
- Really thought we'd have a solid defense, but 1.16 ppp for Maryland with THAT roster is embarrassing. They are not good, but we were clearly worse.
- It feels like it has to be hyperbolic, but the season feels over before Thanksgiving. This is a bad loss, Purdue and Bucky look like unscalable mountains, and the Big East won't offer many resume building opportunities.
- I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff.
Agree. VRG may be better than RGV.
The College game is unfortunately getting more like the Pro game and Marquette RGV is getting more like the high school game.
Quote from: The Sultan on Today at 04:04:55 PMCareer night from Chase offensively, but his defense (which was either "lazy" or "tired"), was a problem at times.
Defense everywhere was a problem. Didn't pressure a team without many ball-handlers. Royce and Ben couldn't stay in front of guys. They gashed us at the rim. I didn't see any way they would be able to score enough to win. Giving up 1.16 is atrocious.
Quote from: GB Warrior on Today at 04:04:23 PMBrew hit it. Season is over. They should be burning the redshirts and seeing what's there. You're not getting anything new out of guys like Tre. See if anything here is worth salvaging
Burning redshirts in what may be a down season is pure idiocy.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on Today at 04:13:03 PMBurning redshirts in what may be a down season is pure idiocy.
Burn it all down
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on Today at 04:13:03 PMBurning redshirts in what may be a down season is pure idiocy.
Yeah the idea that Sheek is going to come in here and it's going to turn us into a tournament team is questionable.
Anybody else ever notice how funny this spambot is?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on Today at 04:14:09 PMBurn it all down
Always love hearing from the Spam Father.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on Today at 04:21:13 PMAlways love hearing from the Spam Father.
Always love hearing from people that only show up after losses
Eh, fair.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on Today at 04:23:06 PMEh, fair.
I get it. Venting after losses is fine. This team probably isn't that good this year and it's frustrating as hell. Especially when you're playing a system that requires being better than 30% from 3. It's up to the staff to adjust the plan or face the criticism
This is an instance where I'm going to try to make myself feel better by reminding this board that I was right all along last season. This team is thoroughly mediocre and this was easy to see coming last year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 03:59:49 PM- Two decisive losses to teams made up entirely of transfers and new players. That's not a good result for the RGV plan.
Can't have an RGV plan with clearly BAD relationships.
Letting players fail upwards has let to bad relationships across the team.
Only Ross and Gold have a clue[/list]
There isn't much G and V to go with the R. I don't give a @#$& whether we have transfers or guys that stay in the system. We need good players, period. This team isn't competitive. The fact this staff thought it was is crazy. For example, I don't care how many managers, asst coaches or walk ons Hamilton beats up on in the summer. That dude is not a high major player.
Burn redshirts? MU's problem is the opposite. They're playing too many guys. Owens played 10 minutes and had only 2 fouls on the stat line. Norman has contributed more, but not enough to get meaningful minutes. Clark is not ready. Shorten the bench and pull back the press. A bad half court D is only going to be worse if you extend it. Why is Clark picking up Payne outside the 3 pt line? MU is not forcing enough TOs against good teams to justify pressing.
It also might be time to reevaluate the Nevada Smith offense. If you want to launch that many 3s, MU needs to change its recruiting focus.
Quote from: TFlegend on Today at 04:46:16 PMThere isn't much G and V to go with the R. I don't give a @#$& whether we have transfers or guys that stay in the system. We need good players, period. This team isn't competitive. The fact this staff thought it was is crazy. For example, I don't care how many managers, asst coaches or walk ons Hamilton beats up on in the summer. That dude is not a high major player.
This is where I'm at. It's great to commit to the Relationships and the Growth, and when it works, I think it will lead to Victory. But we have guys who've been here for 2-3 years that simply haven't grown. When you're in year 3 with the program and aren't a positive contributor, it isn't disloyal to help that player find a new landing spot and replace them with someone who will be able to deliver more productive minutes in meaningful moments.
And honestly, if you aren't doing that, are you keeping up the Relationships end to the players that did stick around and demonstrate Growth?
Quote from: TFlegend on Today at 04:46:16 PMThere isn't much G and V to go with the R. I don't give a @#$& whether we have transfers or guys that stay in the system. We need good players, period. This team isn't competitive. The fact this staff thought it was is crazy. For example, I don't care how many managers, asst coaches or walk ons Hamilton beats up on in the summer. That dude is not a high major player.
Agreed. Hamilton has made a lot of progress and obviously put a lot of work in on his body, but his talent level and ceiling looks like it's below the high major level to me. Pulling Sheek's redshirt won't happen, but sure hope he's in a position to start next year. Royce's skill level is that of an undersized 5. He struggles on both ends on the perimeter but has a decent motor down low. Clark was worth the flyer. He moves ok and is a legit 7 feet tall.
"I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff."
- In current Shaka system, do we appear competitive again when this year's freshman get to be juniors?
Quote from: PointWarrior on Today at 05:08:16 PM"I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff."
- In current Shaka system, do we appear competitive again when this year's freshman get to be juniors?
Maybe, but you can't just excuse two straight bad years in this hypothetical. If they're bad this year and next year, Shaka ain't it.
Quote from: PointWarrior on Today at 05:08:16 PM"I'm at a bit of a loss. Expected a lot more. This feels like a total expectation reset on the season, the retention model, and maybe even the staff."
- In current Shaka system, do we appear competitive again when this year's freshman get to be juniors?
Depends on recruits - gotta start hitting a higher percentage than the soph/junior class.
It is painful to see this board of hardcore college basketball fans not understand college basketball. Teams like Marquette will always ebb and flow in their quality. We are not a team filled with McDonald's AA. In the last 2 years we lost Kam, Tyler, and Oso to the NBA. Those guys were fucking studs. We also lost Jop, and Stevie, two important starters.
The team is currently made up of guys who have very little experience playing college ball, and even less playing meaningful minutes. This is a growth year. It doesn't matter if it's fucking year 5, year 15, or year 30. Programs and coaches have down years when they graduate that kind of usage rate.
I'm also not interested in watching a college basketball team filled with transfers. I'd rather watch the Marquette teams of the last 2 years, with their disappointing finishes, than a team filled with one year guys who don't give a crap about the program. The same was true with one and done's. I will have absolutely no connection to that team. In that case I'd rather just watch the NBA, which somehow has landed with more continuity than college ball.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but this seemed like the proud sentiment from the fanbase for the last 3 years. One down year while young, talented kids try to figure it out and you're ready to abandon it all?
Sometimes in the summer we were posting about maintaining and developing, or recruiting transfers.
Then I posted about how I hope shaka was correct in the way he went, but I was very weary of it.
Through two reals games, it seems the portal.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on Today at 05:28:44 PMThe team is currently made up of guys who have very little experience playing college ball, and even less playing meaningful minutes
Up until this week, this team started two seniors, a junior, a red-shirt junior and a red-shirt sophomore. It has four players who played double-digit minutes last year.
This team has plenty of experience. They just aren't very good.
This team is a below .500 Big East team and about a 16-17 win total based solely on the roster. Best case scenario is that some players step up and build a case for a decent 2026-27 season. I suspect the coaches knew this team would suck relative to the recent teams.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on Today at 05:28:44 PMIt is painful to see this board of hardcore college basketball fans not understand college basketball. Teams like Marquette will always ebb and flow in their quality.
I don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.
If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.
We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.
Quote from: jeffreyweee on Today at 05:28:44 PMIt is painful to see this board of hardcore college basketball fans not understand college basketball. Teams like Marquette will always ebb and flow in their quality. We are not a team filled with McDonald's AA. In the last 2 years we lost Kam, Tyler, and Oso to the NBA. Those guys were fucking studs. We also lost Jop, and Stevie, two important starters.
The team is currently made up of guys who have very little experience playing college ball, and even less playing meaningful minutes. This is a growth year. It doesn't matter if it's fucking year 5, year 15, or year 30. Programs and coaches have down years when they graduate that kind of usage rate.
I'm also not interested in watching a college basketball team filled with transfers. I'd rather watch the Marquette teams of the last 2 years, with their disappointing finishes, than a team filled with one year guys who don't give a crap about the program. The same was true with one and done's. I will have absolutely no connection to that team. In that case I'd rather just watch the NBA, which somehow has landed with more continuity than college ball.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but this seemed like the proud sentiment from the fanbase for the last 3 years. One down year while young, talented kids try to figure it out and you're ready to abandon it all?
You should watch the Bulls you'd love them. They want to get the 8 seed every year and pat themselves on the back for doing it the right way, which is exactly where the Shaka era appears to be headed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 05:51:32 PMI don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.
If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.
We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.
100%
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 05:51:32 PMI don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.
If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.
We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.
Bingo.
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 05:51:32 PMI don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.
If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.
We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.
And that's why I'm watching Bradley and Oklahoma closely
Though, Chris Beard would be my first choice if he's available
"Fetch isn't happening. Feels like the staff evaluation of Hamilton, Owens, and Sean are just way off".
This!! Some serious misses on talent evaluations by the staff. Neither Hamilton or Owens are BE capable right now, add Norman to that list imo. Clark, no where near ready.
Sean gets a pass because of his injury..
Quote from: brewcity77 on Today at 05:51:32 PMI don't think you understand the complaints. The board understands there are ebbs and flows. But for a program with our aspirations, down years should look like last year. Something in the 7-10 range but good enough to make the tournament and maybe give a good team a scare the first weekend.
If we extrapolate these first four games to a full season, this team will likely have a losing record, and if that happens, it basically puts Shaka on the hot seat. The last time a Marquette coach stayed employed after two losing seasons was Jack Nagle in 1957 (and he was fired after going .500 in 1958). Dukiet and Wojo were both fired after their second losing seasons. Eddie Hickey and Deane were fired after their first losing seasons.
We live in an era of not just win-now, but win every year. I don't think Shaka would be at risk after this season no matter how bad it goes, but if this year doesn't improve and it happens again next year? We're probably in the market for a new coach.
Crean missed the tournament two years ina row after the Final Four. Yes, he bought himself plenty of goodwill with a FF but had two mediocre seasons to follow. Then we join a loaded Big East and he makes three straight tourneys before leaving for "It's Indiana."
Perhaps this team will figure it out and learn from these early-season mistakes.
The problem, IMO, lies in a few areas.
1. From a recruiting standpoint, MU is not getting nearly enough from the junior and senior classes. Lowery is the only player that is playing on the right trajectory out of those classes. Neither Norman nor Jones can shoot. They aren't fits for the offense MU is trying to run. Owens has not progressed and plays too soft. Parham hasn't played at anywhere near the level that I expected. Hamilton hasn't been particularly good but he's exceeded my expectations.
2. I have a hard time understanding why MU is so bad defensively. James and Stevens are already better defenders than a number or returning players. That's great for them but says something about the guys returning.
3. I understand the analysis supporting lots of threes. That said, the MU personnel does not match that emphasis. For this year, MU needs to attack the hoop on the drive and in the post. Going forward, they need to change the offense or stay away from recruits who can't shoot.
Nobody wants with a down year, but I think a majority of Scoopers would accept it that it can happen sometimes.
What's troublesome here is that:
a) Shaka's teams haven't played well since 2024 ended ... they're 5-10 vs non-cupcakes since Feb. 1, with four of those wins coming against Georgetown, DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall. MU has beaten one quality opponent - Xavier in the BE tourney, by the slimmest of margins - since the Jan. 7 win over Creighton. This isn't a couple of bad games to start a season, it's steep downward trend over nearly 25 games.
b) There doesn't seem to be much in the pipeline to engender faith that a quick turnaround is on the horizon. Lowery can be really good at times, but is he a all-BE type player? Does a lineup of Hamilton, Parham, Lowery, Stevens and James inspire confidence that MU can compete for a conference title and make a tourney run in 26-27? Maybe there are some big developmental leaps on the horizon, but hope isn't a strategy.
Shaka's seat shouldn't be at all hot even if this season continues to play out as it has. But it should start to warm without a big step forward the year after.