MUScoop

There are many concerns.  I'll just basically leave it at that and defer to the Scoop sages. 

That comment was totally worth starting a new thread for.

Quote from: warriorchick on November 09, 2025, 02:12:50 PMThat comment was totally worth starting a new thread for.

Sorry. 

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 09, 2025, 02:09:27 PMThere are many concerns.  I'll just basically leave it at that and defer to the Scoop sages. 

Anyone surprised that there are many concerns hasn't been paying attention to the steady decline in talent under the Shaka regime.   

Quote from: Farley36 on November 09, 2025, 02:31:58 PMAnyone surprised that there are many concerns hasn't been paying attention to the steady decline in talent under the Shaka regime.   

the best players in the Shaka era have been Kolek (transfer), Oso (Wojo), O-Max (transfer) Kam (Wojo), and Stevie (Wojo). Obviously Shaka convinced the last two to stay but of Shaka's HS recruits, the best have been Ross and Jop, a big drop from the others).

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 02:37:29 PMthe best players in the Shaka era have been Kolek (transfer), Oso (Wojo), O-Max (transfer) Kam (Wojo), and Stevie (Wojo). Obviously Shaka convinced the last two to stay but of Shaka's HS recruits, the best have been Ross and Jop, a big drop from the others).

Don't feed the troll.

Yes, it's one game.  But that was a total embarrassment.  They have
Chase, Gold and ( looks like ) James as BE players.  After that ... idk

Other than Chase, they don't have anyone that would start for UCONN, SJU and
( maybe) Creighton.  Gold might be a
6th man type.

Shaka whiffed on the Tre, Zaide, Sean class.  They have FAR less talent than two years ago.  A guy like Hamilton was basically not recruited by anyone

For Shaka's plan ( no transfers, not much NIL ) to work, we have to believe that he's smarter than guys like
Hurley, Izzo, Pitino etc, that are using the Portal.  I don't believe he is

Quote from: warriorchick on November 09, 2025, 02:12:50 PMThat comment was totally worth starting a new thread for.

To be fair, Muggsy keeps it close to the vest and doesn't really react. A post with his thoughts is newsworthy.

Quote from: Farley36 on November 09, 2025, 02:31:58 PMAnyone surprised that there are many concerns hasn't been paying attention to the steady decline in talent under the Shaka regime.   

How dare you?

Quote from: Mu8891 on November 09, 2025, 02:44:25 PMA guy like Hamilton was basically not recruited by anyone

I watch that Marquette Thursdays radio show (when they aren't having technical difficulties which is 99% of the time), but they asked Hamilton why he chose Marquette and he no joke said "because they were the only ones that offered me." That's usually not a recipe for success. He has made some improvement though.

Quote from: Mu8891 on November 09, 2025, 02:44:25 PMShaka whiffed on the Tre, Zaide, Sean class.  They have FAR less talent than two years ago.  A guy like Hamilton was basically not recruited by anyone

I like Zaide's game. I think he'll be a great role player for this team next two years. Need guys like him.

I am willing to give Sean more time post injury but his first three games have been very bad. He looked like he had never really played competitive basketball today.

Tre is a non factor.

Indiana obviously had a very good shooting game.  Two guys were flamethrowers.  But that said, we defended horribly.  I'm not sure why we had such a difficult time with their screens.  You would have thought 🐘 🐘 were setting them.

On the offensive end, I don't think we're comfortable at all in our h-c sets.  We got to tbe line a ton on hard attacks whick was good.  However, we did a brutal job moving the basketball imo with very few ball reversals.  I thought we were extremely predictable.  I also think we can take that 4-6 foot floater occasionally. 

Owens is the biggest enigma to me.  I thought he'd be a major contributor. The bottom line is that game was a mess.  Hopefully, we'll get over it quickly and figure some things out. 

Yes. Hamilton has improved.  And, I hear he's a good kid.

BUT .. think about that ... a guy his size with no offers !?
That means, no Big West ? Or MEAC ? Or
Horizon League!?! No one ?

And Shaka thinks he can make him a BE level player ?

Yep.  Shaka got Hamilton in lieu of him having a year in prep school.  Schools were sniffing around (Gonzaga, iirc), but it was assumed he was going to spend a year at prep school to develop.

He is improving.  He has a ways to go.

If Shaka is going to rely on retention then he needs to recruit better talent and have more "hits" than misses. Too many guys had to make too big of a jump with this team, I have a feeling this isn't going to be a thrilling year

I think watching a young team grow, develop, get better is one of my favorite things in sports.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 03:26:43 PMI think watching a young team grow, develop, get better is one of my favorite things in sports.

The baseball thread says this isn't allowed.
Sorry, I don't make the rules.

Quote from: Mu8891 on November 09, 2025, 02:44:25 PMYes, it's one game.  But that was a total embarrassment.  They have
Chase, Gold and ( looks like ) James as BE players.  After that ... idk

Other than Chase, they don't have anyone that would start for UCONN, SJU and
( maybe) Creighton.  Gold might be a
6th man type.

Shaka whiffed on the Tre, Zaide, Sean class.  They have FAR less talent than two years ago.  A guy like Hamilton was basically not recruited by anyone

For Shaka's plan ( no transfers, not much NIL ) to work, we have to believe that he's smarter than guys like
Hurley, Izzo, Pitino etc, that are using the Portal.  I don't believe he is

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 09, 2025, 02:09:27 PMThere are many concerns.  I'll just basically leave it at that and defer to the Scoop sages. 

i'm looking forward to the Purdue game.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 09, 2025, 03:52:22 PMThe baseball thread says this isn't allowed.
Sorry, I don't make the rules.

If watching the Marquette/Indiana game was like being a White Sox fan, we'll still have to "agree to disagree," about the level of fun.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 03:26:43 PMI think watching a young team grow, develop, get better is one of my favorite things in sports.

my fav thing in sports is winning. Anyway, anyhow. Win now. Tired of players that must 'develop'. Today? We basically got smoked by a MVC team.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 02:37:29 PMthe best players in the Shaka era have been Kolek (transfer), Oso (Wojo), O-Max (transfer) Kam (Wojo), and Stevie (Wojo). Obviously Shaka convinced the last two to stay but of Shaka's HS recruits, the best have been Ross and Jop, a big drop from the others).

You seriously think Ross is a big drop from Stevie? Remember Kalkbrenner covering Stevie from 15' away? Why does Shaka not get credit for Kolek and OMax? I don't understand the longing for Wojo but to each his own.

Quote from: Viper on November 09, 2025, 04:16:46 PMmy fav thing in sports is winning. Anyway, anyhow. Win now. Tired of players that must 'develop'. Today? We basically got smoked by a MVC team.

I like winning, too.  This team will win. 

Quote from: Zog from Margo on November 09, 2025, 04:18:45 PMYou seriously think Ross is a big drop from Stevie? Remember Kalkbrenner covering Stevie from 15' away? Why does Shaka not get credit for Kolek and OMax? I don't understand the longing for Wojo but to each his own.

Nobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 04:21:21 PMI like winning, too.  This team will win. 

i sure hope they do. Get right on Wednesday, then let it rip on Saturday vs Brent

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 04:26:32 PMNobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

It is worth stating neither were the rent a top player hired guns that now come to mind with the portal. Omax didn't play much his first year, and Kolek was a backup to Moresell. They were closer to traditional transfers than hired guns

Quote from: Zog from Margo on November 09, 2025, 04:18:45 PMYou seriously think Ross is a big drop from Stevie? 

Big is subjective, but Stevie to date was a much better college basketball player. Highlight dunks are awesome, but Stevie consistently impacted games in ways that helped MU win. Chase has 4+ months to prove me wrong.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 03:14:45 PMHe is improving.  He has a ways to go.

A long way.

Hamilton is running the kind of post offense that some MU fans have been calling for. Creating  from the high, mid, low post.  Backing people down and trying to score.  This is what some fans wanted Oso to do, wanted Ben to do last season.  Not necessarily my thing. 

He is clearly still mistake prone.  Learning which play to make which time.  But, like with all of the young player, the only thing to do is learn from it and get better.

Only one game but this was exactly what I was afraid this season was going to look like. A whole bunch of dribbling without much of anything resulting, a whole lot of guys who have never been asked to be the man now having to be the man, and looking extremely uncomfortable. Sean and Owens need to figure out how to do anything positive. Caedin has come a long way.  Nigel and Adrien are looking better than I hoped. Zaide needs to assert himself more. 

Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on November 09, 2025, 05:07:31 PMA whole bunch of dribbling without much of anything resulting

You've pretty much summed up Jones right there.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 04:26:32 PMNobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

I'm 100% behind Shaka, but the no transfer strategy is not working. I honestly thought it was a great pathway to success, but not buying in any more.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 09, 2025, 05:54:55 PMI'm 100% behind Shaka, but the no transfer strategy is not working. I honestly thought it was a great pathway to success, but not buying in any more.

It's a great way to build a roster around long-term transfers or guys unearthed by others. As demonstrated by Shaka for 4 years.

We did a lot of superfluous dribbling and had a terrible assist/turn ratio.  We have a lot of capable guards but there's no doubt Sean was brutal today.  He has to be much, much, better. 

My biggest concern is still Parham and Owens.  I think playing Hamilton with Parham or Gold is problematic on the defensive end.  And frankly Ben has been Bill Russell conpared to Royce and Damarius. We havd to get production fron both of these guys imo.  They often look completely lost out there.  I'm very confused as to why and hope it's just early season jitters.

I have to believe we will get better.
But so will all the other teams.
If we are currently a 3 out of 10 and other teams are currently a 6 out of 10 we would lose.
Will our rate of improvement drastically outpace others so that we will be the better team when we play them in the future months?
Past seasons strongly question this.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 09, 2025, 05:54:55 PMI'm 100% behind Shaka, but the no transfer strategy is not working. I honestly thought it was a great pathway to success, but not buying in any more.

I do not support annual roster overhaul, but a teansfer or two to fill gap, what's wrong with that? Ee knew we needed a three point shooter, why not go get a grad transfer from Sam Houston?

IU had 27 assists, 8 turns.

MU 10 assists, 15 turns. 

If MU is not forcing turnovers and wearing teams down, what's our best way to beat the best teams.  We have to find better options/sets in our h-c offense. 

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 06:06:42 PMI do not support annual roster overhaul, but a teansfer or two to fill gap, what's wrong with that? Ee knew we needed a three point shooter, why not go get a grad transfer from Sam Houston?

Agreed. I just think you have to upgrade where needed. And there is always a need.

I agreed with Shaka attempt to create a difference with MU, but pro sports require pro roster building.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 05:01:56 PMHamilton is running the kind of post offense that some MU fans have been calling for. Creating g from the high, mid, low post.  Backing people down and trying to score.  This is what some fans wanted Oso to do, wanted Ben to do last season.  Not necessarily my thing. 

He is clearly still mistake prone.  Learning which play to make which time.  But, like with all of the young player, the only thing to do is learn from it and get better.

Sure, he is TRYING to do that. But it isn't working. Honestly, at this point I don't see much upside at all. He doesn't do much on either side of the floor.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 09, 2025, 06:20:12 PMAgreed. I just think you have to upgrade where needed. And there is always a need.

I agreed with Shaka attempt to create a difference with MU, but pro sports require pro roster building.

Brewers.  Tigers.  Building through scouting, drafting, developing their young players, making the playoffs while other teams like the Mets spend all of that money to not make the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 06:24:31 PMSure, he is TRYING to do that. But it isn't working. Honestly, at this point I don't see much upside at all. He doesn't do much on either side of the floor.

Oh, I see the upside.  But he has much to learn.  Compare him now to the timid non-entity he was last season.  Immense strides.   Many immense strides to go.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 06:24:54 PMBrewers.  Tigers.  Building through scouting, drafting, developing their young players, making the playoffs while other teams like the Mets spend all of that money to not make the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

Not really. The Brewers did not draft much, if not most of their line-up.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 06:24:54 PMBrewers.  Tigers.  Building through scouting, drafting, developing their young players, making the playoffs while other teams like the Mets spend all of that money to not make the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

I hope we aren't comparing Marquette to the Brewers. I would like to think Marquette has a chance to compete for championships eventually. The Brewers will never.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 09, 2025, 04:48:05 PMChase has 4+ months to prove me wrong.

I think the 3 new starters might be slightly more of a problem

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:29:10 PMI hope we aren't comparing Marquette to the Brewers. I would like to think Marquette has a chance to compete for championships eventually. The Brewers will never.

Uh...WTF are you talking about? The Brewers definitely "competed for a championship" just this year.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 03:26:43 PMI think watching a young team grow, develop, get better is one of my favorite things in sports.

I think watching my young team win consistently is one of my favorite things in sports

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 06:27:31 PMNot really. The Brewers did not draft much, if not most of their line-up.

Honestly every MLB team works through FA and trades. There is no MLB, NBA, NFL or NHL team that has taken the MU model.

Again, kudos to Shaka for trying it. I thought it had merit.

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 06:32:18 PMUh...WTF are you talking about? The Brewers definitely "competed for a championship" just this year.

They were good. They never are championship level.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 06:24:54 PMBrewers.  Tigers.  Building through scouting, drafting, developing their young players, making the playoffs while other teams like the Mets spend all of that money to not make the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

You're halfway there.

They build around a young core AND THEN spend money on experienced vets to push them over the edge.

Kolek was a scorer.
Kam was a scorer.
What is wrong with recruiting a scorer?
It appears Defense can be taught but scoring is a much higher art and skillset.
Besides Chase who do you feel can get us 10 points every game?

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:38:37 PMThey were good. They never are championship level.

Much, much closer than Marquette has been in 20+ years.

Quote from: NCMUFan on November 09, 2025, 06:39:02 PMKolek was a scorer.
Kam was a scorer.
What is wrong with recruiting a scorer?
It appears Defense can be taught but scoring is a much higher art and skillset.
Besides Chase who do you feel can get us 10 points every game?

I like to point out that Kolek started 32 games as a Sophomore here and averaged 6 points per game.

I think Chase, Zaide, Royce, Ben should all be plenty capable of averaging double figures.

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 06:40:29 PMMuch, much closer than Marquette has been in 20+ years.

Ehh.

Senior year of Kolek/Oso had a better chance of winning a championship than the Brewers did this year in what was one of their best seasons ever.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:43:07 PMEhh.

Senior year of Kolek/Oso had a better chance of winning a championship than the Brewers did this year in what was one of their best seasons ever.

That is absolutely a silly statement.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2025, 06:24:54 PMBrewers.  Tigers.  Building through scouting, drafting, developing their young players, making the playoffs while other teams like the Mets spend all of that money to not make the playoffs.

Sound familiar?

I don't think pro-to-college sports comparisons make much sense, but  comping MU to teams that have a combined two World Series appearances in 40 years isn't going to make anyone feel better about the program's approach.

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 06:44:41 PMThat is absolutely a silly statement.

I believe it to be absolutely true.

Marquette, with a 1st team All American (and 3 NBA players), had a game against a Double Digit seed (that made the Final Four) to get to the Elite 8.

The Brewers had to beat the LA Dodgers 4 times (of which they beat them 0) just to get to the World Series. They will likely never be able to win a World Series.

We disagree, and that's ok!

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:43:07 PMEhh.

Senior year of Kolek/Oso had a better chance of winning a championship than the Brewers did this year in what was one of their best seasons ever.

That's actually a really good point. If that Marquette team didn't lose early in the tournament, they would definitely be closer than the brewers have the last 20 years.

Quote from: panda on November 09, 2025, 06:52:42 PMThat's actually a really good point. If that Marquette team didn't lose early in the tournament, they would definitely be closer than the brewers have the last 20 years.

It's what makes College Basketball so fun. If you have a good team, you have a chance to win the single elimination format.

Pro Sports don't have that.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:54:18 PMIt's what makes College Basketball so fun. If you have a good team, you have a chance to win the single elimination format.

Pro Sports don't have that.

Sweet

The brewers have made the "final four" like 5 times in the last 20 years.

Quote from: NCMUFan on November 09, 2025, 06:39:02 PMKolek was a scorer.
Kam was a scorer.
What is wrong with recruiting a scorer?
It appears Defense can be taught but scoring is a much higher art and skillset.
Besides Chase who do you feel can get us 10 points every game?

Zaide and Parham should be able to.

Giving up 100 didn't help us today. 

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 09, 2025, 06:35:34 PMHonestly every MLB team works through FA and trades. There is no MLB, NBA, NFL or NHL team that has taken the MU model.

Again, kudos to Shaka for trying it. I thought it had merit.

It doesn't have merit because of today's ass kicking?

Quote from: panda on November 09, 2025, 06:58:31 PMSweet

The brewers have made the "final four" like 5 times in the last 20 years.

And were still more wins away from winning a title each time than Marquette was 2 years ago.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 07:04:40 PMAnd were still more wins away from winning a title each time than Marquette was 2 years ago.

LOLOLOLOL.

Look, it was a terrible point to begin with, but now you are just sounding ridiculous.

Quote from: The Sultan on November 09, 2025, 07:06:45 PMLOLOLOLOL.

Look, it was a terrible point to begin with, but now you are just sounding ridiculous.

I am of the opinion that the Kolek and Ighodaro duo had a better chance of winning a title than the Brewers. I'm certain many agree.

That's not just a me thing.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 07:04:40 PMAnd were still more wins away from winning a title each time than Marquette was 2 years ago.

I check out for the summer and come back to the biggest bozo here still holding the top spot. lol

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 07:08:32 PMI am of the opinion that the Kolek and Ighodaro duo had a better chance of winning a title than the Brewers. I'm certain many agree.

That's not just a me thing.

Well, they're ridiculous too. Kolek and Oso never even got to the Elite 8.

Quote from: panda on November 09, 2025, 07:11:43 PMI check out for the summer and come back to the biggest bozo here still holding the top spot. lol

There are only 32 MLB teams so saying the Brewers made the Final Four is hilarious. The Brewers, simply by existing, make it further than Marquette made it last year in the tournament. It's stupid to compare College vs. Pro playoffs.

I still think they were a more realistic champion in 2023-24 than the Brewers this year. If you don't, awesome!

Quote from: NCMUFan on November 09, 2025, 06:39:02 PMKolek was a scorer.
Kam was a scorer.
What is wrong with recruiting a scorer?
It appears Defense can be taught but scoring is a much higher art and skillset.
Besides Chase who do you feel can get us 10 points every game?

Nigel

Quote from: Pakuni on November 09, 2025, 06:51:33 PMI don't think pro-to-college sports comparisons make much sense, but  comping MU to teams that have a combined two World Series appearances in 40 years isn't going to make anyone feel better about the program's approach.

Do people really feel this way, that college is not pro sports? In some ways it it is way more free market and "pro" than any traditional pro sports. You can't ignore the new reality. You don't have to like it, but "college" sports has gone the way of the horse and buggy. 

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 07:17:17 PMThere are only 32 MLB teams so saying the Brewers made the Final Four is hilarious. The Brewers, simply by existing, make it further than Marquette made it last year in the tournament. It's stupid to compare College vs. Pro playoffs.

I still think they were a more realistic champion in 2023-24 than the Brewers this year. If you don't, awesome!

Brewers made the semis, MU unfortunately not since Crean.

Quote from: panda on November 09, 2025, 06:38:47 PMYou're halfway there.

They build around a young core AND THEN spend money on experienced vets to push them over the edge.

Exactly. 2023-24 Purdue. A core of returners all recruited by Painter and one grad transfer (from Southern Illinois) added after the FDU debacle and they made the title game. The next year zero scholarship transfers (a walk-on from Milliken transferred in) and they made it back to the Sweet 16. MSU last year, two grad transfers from low majors (Omaha and Longwood) added to an all-Izzo recruited returning roster which got them to the Elite 8 a season after making the Sweet 16 with zero transfers.

In the pros, the Detroit Lions offense: all drafted players plus Goff and Montgomery (and Goff was supposed to be a place holder when they drafted Hooker). It's worked out well.

I don't want MU to be St. John's, Arkansas, etc., but one guy to fill an obvious need? That's just being smart. 

Quote from: Newsdreams on November 09, 2025, 07:27:44 PMBrewers made the semis, MU unfortunately not since Crean.

I still think it was much more of an uphill climb to actually win it than Marquette of 2 years ago. They would have had to beat the best team in baseball 4 times just to get to the World Series.

A roster of 3 NBA players was sitting there on Friday of the 2nd weekend as 1 of 12 teams left playing in a single elimination format and they were against a double digit seed.

It's tough to compare. Just an opinion. I too hope Marquette gets back to a third weekend sometime soon!

Last year we started strong but faded due to the lack of development from our younger players. This year, our season is fully dependent on those players taking major strides. Today's performance only heightened concerns.

For Shaka's approach to work, he needs to hit on recruits. Given the success of his first few years, it's surprising how many misses he's had. That those misses won't transfer, Shaka needs to have hit on the current freshman and next years.

I'm fully behind Shaka and would love for him to be the coach for many years. But his approach only works if he can identify the right recruits and develop them. I think it's fair to question his success as the junior and sophomore classes are underwhelming.

Chase creating for others off the bounce is not really part of his skillset.  The question is do we have guys capable of making plays off the dribble in the h-c?  Kolek and Kam did this at a high level.  I'm a bit concerned this is going to be difficult for us this season.   

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 09, 2025, 07:25:21 PMDo people really feel this way, that college is not pro sports? In some ways it it is way more free market and "pro" than any traditional pro sports. You can't ignore the new reality. You don't have to like it, but "college" sports has gone the way of the horse and buggy. 

When colleges retain an incoming player's rights for six years and then can sign them to 14- and 15-year contracts on top of that, we can compare the team-building strategies of NCAA basketball programs and MLB teams.

Otherwise, yes, it's a silly comparison.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 09, 2025, 06:31:17 PMI think the 3 new starters might be slightly more of a problem

Yeah, but the question was comping Chase to Stevie.

Quote from: Viper on November 09, 2025, 04:16:46 PMmy fav thing in sports is winning. Anyway, anyhow. Win now. Tired of players that must 'develop'. Today? We basically got smoked by a MVC team.

An MVC team? Tell me you don't pay attention to basketball without telling me you don't pay attention to basketball.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:29:10 PMI hope we aren't comparing Marquette to the Brewers. I would like to think Marquette has a chance to compete for championships eventually. The Brewers will never.

It's way more likely the Brewers win a WS than MU wins a national title. Spending in college athletics is just as uneven as in the MLB. If college athletics puts something to the effect of a salary cap in place, we know programs will pay under the table. There's 30 MLB teams. There's 366 college basketball teams. It's unrealistic to expect a national title for Marquette. Possible? Of course. But extremely unlikely.

Leave it to scoop to argue about two crapty teams and which is craptier.

Quote from: Farley36 on November 09, 2025, 09:06:14 PMLeave it to scoop to argue about two crapty teams and which is craptier.

Do you support any non crapty teams, Farley?

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2025, 09:00:12 PMIt's way more likely the Brewers win a WS than MU wins a national title. Spending in college athletics is just as uneven as in the MLB. If college athletics puts something to the effect of a salary cap in place, we know programs will pay under the table. There's 30 MLB teams. There's 366 college basketball teams. It's unrealistic to expect a national title for Marquette. Possible? Of course. But extremely unlikely.

I still disagree! For a mid major school sure. Marquette is a major college basketball program that can position themselves to win and puts themselves in position to win often.

There are people in here that have seen Marquette win a Championship. We've even seen them make a Final Four. Nobody has ever or probably will ever see the Brewers win.

I'm not quite sure why we're conflating two incompatible sports but if we're looking at how much 'trying' each team does, the Brewers turn over every possible rock to acquire talent, and they fail fast when a particular piece doesn't work. Time will tell for Marquette - they obviously need to sleep in the bed they've made for this year.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 09:23:11 PMI still disagree! For a mid major school sure. Marquette is a major college basketball program that can position themselves to win and puts themselves in position to win often.

There are people in here that have seen Marquette win a Championship. We've even seen them make a Final Four. Nobody has ever or probably will ever see the Brewers win.

Anyone who saw Marquette win a national title also saw the Brewers lose in a game 7 of a World Series.

The Brewers had a game 7 NLCS home game in the last decade. Just by a numbers game, they're competing with way fewer teams for a title.

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 09, 2025, 06:43:07 PMEhh.

Senior year of Kolek/Oso had a better chance of winning a championship than the Brewers did this year in what was one of their best seasons ever.

I think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

Senior year, we would've had to beat a Purdue team that beat us earlier in the season and a UConn team that beat us three times by an average of 17 points and always by at least three possessions.

But I also think Marquette has a better chance at winning a title just because of how the NCAA Tournament works. In a 7-game series, the best team is more often to win, and as the Dodgers showed, the Brewers just don't have the financial wherewithal to be that team. In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 10, 2025, 10:32:57 AMI think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

Senior year, we would've had to beat a Purdue team that beat us earlier in the season and a UConn team that beat us three times by an average of 17 points and always by at least three possessions.

But I also think Marquette has a better chance at winning a title just because of how the NCAA Tournament works. In a 7-game series, the best team is more often to win, and as the Dodgers showed, the Brewers just don't have the financial wherewithal to be that team. In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

Fair!

We did lose to Purdue by what? 3 and they hit a 75 footer at the halftime buzzer. Also getting UConn for a 4th time after they beat us in games 2 and 3 without Kolek would have been a fun twist!

But I totally get where you are coming from.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 10, 2025, 10:32:57 AMI think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

broken hand? It was reported that he injured his wrist and/or his thumb on his non-shooting hand I've never read anything about a broken hand. Was that kept on the DL?

Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on November 09, 2025, 05:12:39 PMYou've pretty much summed up Jones right there.

I don't understand what people see in Sean. Super quick/athletic player with little to no significant offensive ability.

Can definitely use those traits to help the team.

But I don't believe he should be anywhere near the starting PG role or expectation

Quote from: jesmu84 on November 10, 2025, 11:19:29 AMI don't understand what people see in Sean. Super quick/athletic player with little to no significant offensive ability.

Can definitely use those traits to help the team.

But I don't believe he should be anywhere near the starting PG role or expectation

This is fair.

Sean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 01:31:31 PMSean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

Because he was sagged off. He was 9/35 from three that year. Our offenses was so good that our oppenents thought him shooting open threes was the best way to beat us. I distinctly remember one of his made threes that year being a bank.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 10, 2025, 01:52:46 PMBecause he was sagged off. He was 9/35 from three that year. Our offenses was so good that our oppenents thought him shooting open threes was the best way to beat us. I distinctly remember one of his made threes that year being a bank.

On a team filled with alphas, he had the guts to take and make that shot against UCLA.

And yes, he banked in a 3, against Creighton; he also made two others as part of his 15-point contribution that really helped us win that game. Few MU fans who watched that game said, "Meh, I bet Sean Jones will never be any good."

Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 01:31:31 PMSean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

Yes, he helped MU win a game.

Career, he is a 41% shooter, 27% from 3, with a 3 to 2 assist to turnover ratio, and his size makes him a liability on defense. I think the 52-game career stats are more indicative than cherry picking perhaps his most consequential effort.

Can he develop and get better? Sure, of course. But right now he is, at best, most suited as a 10-12 MPG change-of-pace backup.

Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 02:08:46 PM"Meh, I bet Sean Jones will never be any good."

Likewise, no one watched those 2 to 3 games and said, that 5'9" guy who doesn't shoot it well, he'll be good. He had the guts to shoot the ball as the unguarded man on a basketball court.

"It's one game, but..."

But I'm looking forward to the next 4 games-all at Fiserv. As awful as the IU game was, our team has opportunities for redemption, even though two of the opponents are cupcakes. Wins over Dayton and Maryland would go a long way in getting over the IU game and instilling confidence going forward. I do not see the IU game as a foreshadowing of this season.

Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 01:31:31 PMSean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

Bruh...

If Marquette hadn't had to work through TK's injury I think their chance at reaching the final was realistic that year.

Nobody was taking down Uconn. 2023 UConn was beatable. 2024 UConn was significantly better than everyone.

I'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 09, 2025, 03:09:41 PMIndiana obviously had a very good shooting game.  Two guys were flamethrowers.  But that said, we defended horribly.  I'm not sure why we had such a difficult time with their screens.  You would have thought 🐘 🐘 were setting them.

On the offensive end, I don't think we're comfortable at all in our h-c sets.  We got to tbe line a ton on hard attacks whick was good.  However, we did a brutal job moving the basketball imo with very few ball reversals.  I thought we were extremely predictable.  I also think we can take that 4-6 foot floater occasionally. 

Owens is the biggest enigma to me.  I thought he'd be a major contributor. The bottom line is that game was a mess.  Hopefully, we'll get over it quickly and figure some things out. 

Agree. Indiana 14/28 from 3 Marquette 4-16. Indiana 7 Turnovers Marquette 15 Turnovers.
As you said get over it fast and figure it out.
Not easy for anyone to do. But would start by playing Chase Gold and James more than 30 minutes each. Have other ideas.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 04:26:32 PMNobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

I know Shaka says he will not take transfers. That he wants to develop players which is good for the players and the school but does he have a choice? Will Marquette base pony up the NIL money etc to get transfers etc? In my time Marquette University dropped football because it was too expensive. They only kept basketball because it was a money maker and to a lesser extent it gave them national recognition.

I believe in today's world of NIL etc. big schools, big conferences and big contributors will largely determine the top teams in the NCAA. Coaches are still very important but great coaches will generally not overcome good coaches with lots of talent that go where the money is.

Many of you follow this game more than I.  I suggest tracking the money players/teams get and how that stacks up against rankings/wins over the next few years. Will anybody be surprised if the winning blue bloods outspend most colleges?

Maybe KenPom will include that as a factor in his ranking methodology.

Of course, there will be exceptions but money tends to attract quality in most markets. I don't like it but the powers to be made the rule changes and smaller schools will likely suffer accordingly IMO.

Quote from: GB Warrior on November 09, 2025, 09:38:35 PMI'm not quite sure why we're conflating two incompatible sports but if we're looking at how much 'trying' each team does, the Brewers turn over every possible rock to acquire talent, and they fail fast when a particular piece doesn't work. Time will tell for Marquette - they obviously need to sleep in the bed they've made for this year.

Not a very comfortable bed this year.

Quote from: Class71 on November 10, 2025, 04:13:26 PMI know Shaka says he will not take transfers.

He has never said this.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

It was a bad game, and it might be a bad year.  But let's relax a bit here.  Since 1980 Marquette basketball has made the NCAA Tournament 4+ straight seasons twice (8 straight years from 05-06 through 12-13 and the current run of 4 straight years).  In 4 years at Marquette, Shaka has had the two highest seeds Marquette has ever had in an NCAA Tournament.  He's coached a team to a Final Four.  The idea that this guy doesn't have a clue is bonkers.

Nobody knows if this is a "meh" Indiana team.  They have a 5th year senior that has been one of the best players in the country every year he's been healthy.  We lost to a "meh" Mississippi State team in Shaka's second year and went on to win a double BE title.  If this year results in a down year, I'm confident he'll adjust as needed.  He's too competitive, has been a good coach for a long time, and makes too much money not to adjust as needed.

Every team has down years.  We're not above them.  Maybe this is ours.  Maybe this was one bad game three games into a season.

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 10, 2025, 11:29:09 AMThis is fair.

It is fair. But plenty here were positing he should be the starter

Quote from: Class71 on November 10, 2025, 04:13:26 PMI know Shaka says he will not take transfers.

#FakeNews #Lies

Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 10, 2025, 11:29:09 AMThis is fair.

It is fair. But plenty here were positing he should be the starter

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

Did you say steady decline over past 10 months? Shame on you. That is an opinion that cannot be tolerated here.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 10, 2025, 04:18:44 PMIt was a bad game, and it might be a bad year.  But let's relax a bit here.  Since 1980 Marquette basketball has made the NCAA Tournament 4+ straight seasons twice (8 straight years from 05-06 through 12-13 and the current run of 4 straight years).  In 4 years at Marquette, Shaka has had the two highest seeds Marquette has ever had in an NCAA Tournament.  He's coached a team to a Final Four.  The idea that this guy doesn't have a clue is bonkers.

Nobody knows if this is a "meh" Indiana team.  They have a 5th year senior that has been one of the best players in the country every year he's been healthy.  We lost to a "meh" Mississippi State team in Shaka's second year and went on to win a double BE title.  If this year results in a down year, I'm confident he'll adjust as needed.  He's too competitive, has been a good coach for a long time, and makes too much money not to adjust as needed.

Every team has down years.  We're not above them.  Maybe this is ours.  Maybe this was one bad game three games into a season.

I'm fine, I'm just willing to share my personal concerns.
And it's not just one game is my point, this is a trend that's been evident for a while now.

Shaka's most successful players have come from immediate transfers or another coach's recruiting.  We're now at the point where every player and part of this program is his and his alone...and it doesn't seem too great right now.

Where did I say Shaka "doesn't have a clue"?  It's because he HAS a clue that his stubbornness to adapt and inability/unwillingness to land impactful frosh thus far is him coming up short.

We've had great success with Shaka, and I hope he's the coach here for another 15 years.  I love the guy and am glad he's coaching my alma mater.  But he's also not added in the margins going into 2023 and 2024, and now we're here in 2025 with a roster that doesn't instill a ton of confidence IMO.  And finally, yes I think Indiana is a meh team.  I was there yesterday and don't think IU is anything but a middle-of-the-road Big 10 team this season.  Will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, that's how I see it.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 09, 2025, 04:26:32 PMNobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

I know Shaka says he will not take transfers. That he wants to develop players which is good for the players and the school but does he have a choice? Will Marquette base pony up the NIL money etc to get transfers etc? In my time Marquette University dropped football because it was too expensive. They only kept basketball because it was a money maker and to a lesser extent it gave them national recognition.

I believe in today's world of NIL etc. big schools, big conferences and big contributors will largely determine the top teams in the NCAA. Coaches are still very important but great coaches will generally not overcome good coaches with lots of talent that go where the money is.

Many of you follow this game more than I.  I suggest tracking the money players/teams get and how that stacks up against rankings/wins over the next few years. Will anybody be surprised if the winning blue bloods outspend most colleges?

Maybe KenPom will include that as a factor in his ranking methodology.

Of course, there will be exceptions but money tends to attract quality in most markets. I don't like it but the powers to be made the rule changes and smaller schools will likely suffer accordingly IMO.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.

Counterpoint: Tyler ended up here. Shaka trusted Cody enough and came around on Tyler, taking a shot on a kid he wasn't confident in because his staff member was that confident in Kolek. That's how a leader empowers and supports their staff.

Yes, we've had guys that didn't pan out after that, but in my opinion, that Tyler Kolek anecdote proves the exact opposite of the conclusion you are taking from it.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

Ben gold was at the nba academy. How many international prospects are "heralded" when they aren't from just over the border in Canada?

Zaide was ranked 105 in 247 and four stars. Guess where Kam was? That's a reasonable person to take this is hardly like Wojo trying to hype up Sacar or Elliott.

Same with Tre, Parham, and Owens. They were all as highly rated as most of our traditional 4 star guys have been. Yes he took a couple fliers on Clark and Hamilton (and Keeyan) but the scholarship total is also bigger now as well. Lastly don't forget Joplin was his recruit.

I'm not going to sit here and act like Shakas recruiting has been unreal (though I am excited about NJ and AS) but it's not like these guys got rated 4 stars and around top 100 because they were offered by MU, they were widely perceived as good prospects. I think you're writing off Owens and Parham too early this year.

I'd argue Shakas hit on Chase and Joplin. Zaide and Parham are likely hits, not superstars but, like Joplin, good players.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

You're a good poster, but the 2nd paragraph is off base. Royce and Owens are 4 stars. Let them grow. Zaide was a 4 star top 100ish guy and frankly he's been a good player whenever he's been on the court.

The sophomores are totally fine for sophomores. The Freshmen look promising. The seniors are good rotation guys, maybe more in Chase. The junior class is where the main issue is. Norman just hasn't been impactful (but better this year) and Sean has been injured and/or not good enough. When you run your program on development, the upperclassmen need to be ready when it's their turn for major minutes. Outside of Zaide, the juniors haven't been up tot he task so far.

I just don't think there's real star power on this team, which means the underclassmen need to grow quick. The freshmen and sophomores of this year are way ahead of where the upperclassmen were as underclassmen. I don't think it's going to be a long term issue, but they've got some things to work out this season for sure.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2025, 04:56:22 PMLastly don't forget Joplin was his recruit.

And Oso had Texas in his original final 3.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 10, 2025, 04:53:04 PMCounterpoint: Tyler ended up here. Shaka trusted Cody enough and came around on Tyler, taking a shot on a kid he wasn't confident in because his staff member was that confident in Kolek. That's how a leader empowers and supports their staff.

Yes, we've had guys that didn't pan out after that, but in my opinion, that Tyler Kolek anecdote proves the exact opposite of the conclusion you are taking from it.

More than fair, obviously hope your takeaway is more apt than mine.
I guess I view it as a coach that required teeth pulling to take what ended up being an All American talent (I know, no one thought Kolek would become the Kolek we got) and see that married to the stubbornness to adapt with the portal / more talented HS recruits.  Probably unfair of me, but that's how I see it as of now.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 10, 2025, 04:56:22 PMBen gold was at the nba academy. How many international prospects are "heralded" when they aren't from just over the border in Canada?

Zaide was ranked 105 in 247 and four stars. Guess where Kam was? That's a reasonable person to take this is hardly like Wojo trying to hype up Sacar or Elliott.

Same with Tre, Parham, and Owens. They were all as highly rated as most of our traditional 4 star guys have been. Yes he took a couple fliers on Clark and Hamilton (and Keeyan) but the scholarship total is also bigger now as well. Lastly don't forget Joplin was his recruit.

I'm not going to sit here and act like Shakas recruiting has been unreal (though I am excited about NJ and AS) but it's not like these guys got rated 4 stars and around top 100 because they were offered by MU, they were widely perceived as good prospects. I think you're writing off Owens and Parham too early this year.

I'd argue Shakas hit on Chase and Joplin. Zaide and Parham are likely hits, not superstars but, like Joplin, good players.

There's a difference between taking those warranted fliers and depending on said flier as a starting big man, IMO.

Agreed that Tre, Royce, Damarius, Nigel, Adrien are in the range we've usually always been in, which is nice.  But Royce is the only non-frosh I have real optimism in progressing to a legit Big East player to this point.  Damarius has a higher ceiling than anyone Shaka has had and yet is still a deer on ice when he's out there.  I guess my main source of contention is simply that if we're refusing the portal entirely, then the caliber of high school recruit should be better.  And the gulf between what we get and what we've missed on is sizeable.  We should have fewer misses than we've gotten when we aren't fixing said misses with transfers.

Despite all my bitching here, the freshman class gives me a lot of hope.  I'd even like to see Phillips get more run because at least we know the guy can actually shoot the ball.  Add in Sheek, Ian, and Alex and I'm hopeful the talent floor is being raised going forward.

Quote from: BM1090 on November 10, 2025, 04:57:09 PMYou're a good poster, but the 2nd paragraph is off base. Royce and Owens are 4 stars. Let them grow. Zaide was a 4 star top 100ish guy and frankly he's been a good player whenever he's been on the court.

The sophomores are totally fine for sophomores. The Freshmen look promising. The seniors are good rotation guys, maybe more in Chase. The junior class is where the main issue is. Norman just hasn't been impactful (but better this year) and Sean has been injured and/or not good enough. When you run your program on development, the upperclassmen need to be ready when it's their turn for major minutes. Outside of Zaide, the juniors haven't been up tot he task so far.

I just don't think there's real star power on this team, which means the underclassmen need to grow quick. The freshmen and sophomores of this year are way ahead of where the upperclassmen were as underclassmen. I don't think it's going to be a long term issue, but they've got some things to work out this season for sure.

That's fair.  I'd be remiss to write any of the sophomore class off, because I think Royce will be great and I will hold the Owens stock as long as anyone...just discouraged at the initial lack of improvement from both when the frosh-soph jump should be most noticeable.

But I think you hit the nail on the head: the junior class is a major problem.  And when you add that to seniors that are good-to-great role players only, you get a result like yesterday.  It's early, I know I'm being too harsh, but it was the culmination to a lot of underlying issues that have been bugging me for quite a while.

And the coaching staff sells the fact that Oso went from 38 minutes as a freshman to the NBA.  They sell TKo going from 0 star recruit to the NBA.  Omax from a single digit minutes per game freshman to the NBA.  Kam from a conscience free gunner to the NBA.

Yes, a whole lot of talent that was developed by this coaching staff went out that door.  More talent has been brought in. 

If you can't see the difference year over year in Caedin, I don't know what to tell you.  Of course he has farther to go.  They all do. 

MU has played all 12 players in all 3 games. 

We are watching  the sausage get made right now.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 10, 2025, 04:58:42 PMAnd Oso had Texas in his original final 3.

Perhaps losing an Arizona kid to Wojo and Milwaukee winters isn't the best advertisement for Shaka's recruiting.  ;)

I think the criticism here is pretty fair. If you're going to steadfastly avoid the portal, to the point that you make it your identity, then you best hit on a majority of your high school recruits. And some of those hits better be star players.
Based on current trends, that's not happening with Shaka's second, third and fourth classes. Chase is a good Big East starter. Gold is a middling starter. The rest of the 22/23 recruiting classes are either subpar or still question marks.  Still lots of time last year's class, but it's not outrageous to wonder if this strategy is the best way to build a high-level college basketball program in the current environment.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2025, 08:52:25 PMAn MVC team? Tell me you don't pay attention to basketball without telling me you don't pay attention to basketball.

based on your bag of diicks posts, I know a helluva lot more than you. Wadesworld is clearly the land of the lost.

Quote from: Viper on November 10, 2025, 06:03:46 PMbased on your bag of diicks posts, I know a helluva lot more than you. Wadesworld is clearly the land of the lost.

I'm just scared of my RED BIL.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 03:56:00 PMI'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting unnatural carnal knowledgeed on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

Oh boy...

The story around Kolek has literally no relevance to taking flyers on guys like Hamilton and Clark when you have a 15-man roster with redshirts to work with.

Also, the story around Kolek has absolutely nothing to do with Shaka's current views regarding transfers.  He  literally brought in multiple transfers that first season in order to be able to field a team.  Yet, despite not initally believing Tyler was a fit, Shaka listened to his staff, brought Tyler in and helped develop him into an All-American and NBA player. Then he did the same with Kam. 

The fact that you're somehow twisting this into a "gigantic, enormous" red flag is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as the "one recruit in 4 years" and judging Owens and Parham 3 games into their sophomore seasons nonsense. 

This has been a competitive roster annually in each of Shaka's 4-years yet you're peeing your pants because of a blowout in the 3rd game of the season.  We also have no idea if IU will actually be a "meh" team.   

Also, if don't see the level of talent improving with our younger guys, the incoming class,  and the other recruits Shaka is in on, you're simply not paying attention or being  willfully ignorant.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 10, 2025, 05:40:57 PMPerhaps losing an Arizona kid to Wojo and Milwaukee winters isn't the best advertisement for Shaka's recruiting.  ;)

I think the criticism here is pretty fair. If you're going to steadfastly avoid the portal, to the point that you make it your identity, then you best hit on a majority of your high school recruits. And some of those hits better be star players.
Based on current trends, that's not happening with Shaka's second, third and fourth classes. Chase is a good Big East starter. Gold is a middling starter. The rest of the 22/23 recruiting classes are either subpar or still question marks.  Still lots of time last year's class, but it's not outrageous to wonder if this strategy is the best way to build a high-level college basketball program in the current environment.

The point being that Shaka's success here isn't all thanks to guys Shaka wasn't even concerned with as high school recruits like some here want to paint it as.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 10, 2025, 06:15:50 PMI'm just scared of my RED BIL.

yeah, I'll admit...unless things change, I'm not looking fwd to Christmas. But, to follow Tower, I'll do my best to be optimistic...on that matchup and the season. (and I apologize to you for being a d-bag)

Agree with a lot of what has been said. Currently, think we are caught with our pants down a bit where the upperclassmen all pretty much turned out to be role players relative to other conference teams' upperclassmen. At some point, the development slows and guys just "are what they are" eventually.

The world isn't perfect. That nice hierarchy we had the last few years where playing time and production correlated nicely with experience isn't going to be a recipe for success this year. In order to have a good season, I think we need a few of the young guys to emerge as the stars and leaders of this team and be given every opportunity to become that. If it turns out they're not ready, then we're f'd anyway.

Nonetheless, should be an interesting year. Don't think Shaka will be stubborn for long and think we'll see some significant changes in our style of play and rotations sooner rather than later. Shaka has his work cut out for him to get this team to the NCAAs, but I think he can do it as he's proven it for over a decade now.

I've now had a full day to think about the situation.  It was one game gents.  And it was somewhat the perfect storm with DeVries and Wilkerson being unconscious from downtown.  Sometimes I really wish you all could be calm and sensible about our team and not worry so much.  :)

Quote from: Class71 on November 10, 2025, 04:13:26 PMI know Shaka says he will not take transfers. T

No, he has said he won't pay big money (e.g., more than anyone on the current roster) for transfers.

Quote from: CountryRoads on November 10, 2025, 06:44:58 PMAgree with a lot of what has been said. Currently, think we are caught with our pants down a bit where the upperclassmen all pretty much turned out to be role players relative to other conference teams' upperclassmen. At some point, the development slows and guys just "are what they are" eventually.

The world isn't perfect. That nice hierarchy we had the last few years where playing time and production correlated nicely with experience isn't going to be a recipe for success this year. In order to have a good season, I think we need a few of the young guys to emerge as the stars and leaders of this team and be given every opportunity to become that. If it turns out they're not ready, then we're f'd anyway.

Nonetheless, should be an interesting year. Don't think Shaka will be stubborn for long and think we'll see some significant changes in our style of play and rotations sooner rather than later. Shaka has his work cut out for him to get this team to the NCAAs, but I think he can do it as he's proven it for over a decade now.

This.  Well said.

The fans were smacked in the face with a potential dose of reality after that beat down.
Hopefully this is a one off for our team. 

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 10, 2025, 03:03:51 PM"It's one game, but..."

But I'm looking forward to the next 4 games-all at Fiserv. As awful as the IU game was, our team has opportunities for redemption, even though two of the opponents are cupcakes. Wins over Dayton and Maryland would go a long way in getting over the IU game and instilling confidence going forward. I do not see the IU game as a foreshadowing of this season.

Bump for Muggsy. You counseling scoopers to be "calm and sensible" is hilarious.  And although I posted today, I did not need a day to sagely consider the matter or pontificate.

Meh.  Actually kind of quiet for the day after the first loss.   A scoop tradition.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 10, 2025, 06:17:11 PMOh boy...

The story around Kolek has literally no relevance to taking flyers on guys like Hamilton and Clark when you have a 15-man roster with redshirts to work with.

Also, the story around Kolek has absolutely nothing to do with Shaka's current views regarding transfers.  He  literally brought in multiple transfers that first season in order to be able to field a team.  Yet, despite not initally believing Tyler was a fit, Shaka listened to his staff, brought Tyler in and helped develop him into an All-American and NBA player. Then he did the same with Kam. 

The fact that you're somehow twisting this into a "gigantic, enormous" red flag is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as the "one recruit in 4 years" and judging Owens and Parham 3 games into their sophomore seasons nonsense. 

This has been a competitive roster annually in each of Shaka's 4-years yet you're peeing your pants because of a blowout in the 3rd game of the season.  We also have no idea if IU will actually be a "meh" team.   

Also, if don't see the level of talent improving with our younger guys, the incoming class,  and the other recruits Shaka is in on, you're simply not paying attention or being  willfully ignorant.

All of this has been with the caveat of it being early, maybe irrational, but backed by a running trend of multiple seasons. Again with Itejere, Clark, and Hamilton, of course you take fliers on guys: but we're RELYING on Hamilton and he's just not good. He's made evident improvements and he's still not very good is my point. Hopefully Sheek bucks that trend since he actually comes in with some pedigree.

I obviously see the improvement in caliber of HS recruit, but in my opinion a Nigel-Adrien immediately contributing frosh class should be the baseline rule and not the exception.

All to say. Shaka has had great success with transfers and Wojo's recruits (out of necessity), but much less success with his own. So it's annoying he's actively avoiding a path that has proven results. We need to be shown that he can have that and greater success with only his recruits if that's the route we are choosing to go.

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 10, 2025, 07:23:40 PMBump for Muggsy. You counseling scoopers to be "calm and sensible" is hilarious.  And although I posted today, I did not need a day to sagely consider the matter or pontificate.

Perhaps it would serve you best to take a time-out and chillax.  There are a number of apps and videos that you can peruse to assuage your anxieties and find a relaxed state.  :)

We can litigate the transfer issue until we're blue in the face, but the biggest litmus test for Shaka moving forward is how he tightens up his rotation after the next few games.

I'll be very concerned if we continue to see a healthy dose of the underachievers if they continue to disappoint.

Underachiever on Sunday is SOTG on Wednesday.

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 10, 2025, 07:49:48 PMPerhaps it would serve you best to take a time-out and chillax.  There are a number of apps and videos that you can peruse to assuage your anxieties and find a relaxed state.  :)

Classic example of projection Muggsy. Kudos! You're really good at that.

Ultimately, I think this really all comes down to getting blasted. If this was a competitive loss, there would still be complaining, but it wouldn't be at this level. Look at the breakdown by 10-minute periods of the game:


                   Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4     T
Indiana         24    32    22    22    100
Marquette    24    14    21    18    77

Ultimately, this game was a blowout because of Q2, which was the part of the game where Nigel James played just 17 seconds. We needed like 26 minutes of NJ and got 18. Hopefully this will help the staff figure out the rotations.

3 days prior, Sean was the man.

Quote from: onepost on November 10, 2025, 07:32:36 PMAll of this has been with the caveat of it being early, maybe irrational, but backed by a running trend of multiple seasons. Again with Itejere, Clark, and Hamilton, of course you take fliers on guys: but we're RELYING on Hamilton and he's just not good. He's made evident improvements and he's still not very good is my point. Hopefully Sheek bucks that trend since he actually comes in with some pedigree.

I obviously see the improvement in caliber of HS recruit, but in my opinion a Nigel-Adrien immediately contributing frosh class should be the baseline rule and not the exception.

All to say. Shaka has had great success with transfers and Wojo's recruits (out of necessity), but much less success with his own. So it's annoying he's actively avoiding a path that has proven results. We need to be shown that he can have that and greater success with only his recruits if that's the route we are choosing to go.

What trend? Does going from a 2 to a 7 seed constitute a trend? You mention multiple seasons but I don't see any trend over multiple seasons yet. What am I missing?

Also, using the portal is not a panacea. It's not without risk. How did it work out for IU and Kansas last season? There are just as many failures as successes.

You just can't assume it will bring proven results like you say. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 10, 2025, 08:35:53 PMUltimately, I think this really all comes down to getting blasted. If this was a competitive loss, there would still be complaining, but it wouldn't be at this level. Look at the breakdown by 10-minute periods of the game:


                   Q1    Q2    Q3    Q4     T
Indiana         24    32    22    22    100
Marquette    24    14    21    18    77

Ultimately, this game was a blowout because of Q2, which was the part of the game where Nigel James played just 17 seconds. We needed like 26 minutes of NJ and got 18. Hopefully this will help the staff figure out the rotations.

Nigel was excellent yesterday, and I agree that he needed more minutes and that his future is very bright.

That said, there will be many games where you can do the above exercise this year, using different players as the "negative" example with someone else as the "positive." It'll happen to Nigel too, where he has a brutal game and the team does better while he's off the court and SJ22 on it.
Just seems like the nature of a team with so many unknowns.

For that reason, I disagree with the sentiment that Shaka needs to shorten the rotation immediately and go with 6-7 guys. I just think that's short sighted because this years team, unlike those of the recent past, will need different stars on different nights. It will need Sean Jones to be much better to win some games and I just don't see it working any other way.
Ditto for Chase, Ben and so on and so forth.

Doesn't mean the Nigel can't pass him up in the rotation, but that's very tricky and I'm sure Shaka realizes that. He needs Sean Jones to be better, rather than glued to the bench,  and coach knows that.
He just has to somehow find the way to play the hot hand and win games while he figures out a way to help the ones that aren't the hot hand improve game in and game out. Tall task.

I will add a caveat to the above thought
I hate to disparage the kid because he's improved plenty and has worked his tail off, but I do think that Shaka needs to make the decision to limit the playing time of someone like Caedin if he doesn't see quick improvement. Just like he determined that Tre's minutes needed to be curbed last season, I think he needs to be quicker in determining that for other guys that seem to not have the talent level to hold up against the competition.
Give Ben more minutes if you have to, lean more on Parham when you can, and use someone like Hamilton for 10 solid effort and bully minutes or just go small and hope the athleticism makes up for it.

I don't think Sean Jones is in the same boat because we have seen him be fairly effective and hold his own before. If he improves and becomes that again he can give extremely valuable minutes, even if you have to go small and play him with NJ, Chase/Zaide, Parham, Gold.

Whether he shortens the rotation or not, he needs to reduce the number of lineups. We played 26 lineups against Indiana. That's 26 times that guys roles in the offense and defense are changing. For Chase, Ben, & Zaide, that doesn't worry me. But for all the younger guys in new roles and learning the system, that's a massive constant shift in role and expectations that changes every 3-4 possessions. It isn't sustainable.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 10, 2025, 02:25:09 PMLikewise, no one watched those 2 to 3 games and said, that 5'9" guy who doesn't shoot it well, he'll be good. He had the guts to shoot the ball as the unguarded man on a basketball court.

Actually ...

Quote from: Mu8891 on November 21, 2023, 12:58:21 AMThank God for SEAN !!
Huge .. HUGE SHOT !!

Quote from: #UnleashSean on November 21, 2023, 12:45:14 AMSotg sean. Close thread.

Quote from: Goose on November 21, 2023, 12:50:15 AMSean Jones and Chase changed the game in the second half. Sean is going to get a lot of time this season.

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 21, 2023, 12:51:49 AMThat shot also took serious stones my friends. 

Quote from: LloydsLegs on November 21, 2023, 12:56:56 AMSean, Chase and Stevie will all have their times and places.   And yes, there will be more Sean and Chase as they get better and more confident. 

Quote from: El Guerrero 2 on November 21, 2023, 01:03:05 AMI'm fine giving Stevie the honorary start, but Chase and Sean need to be playing the majority of second halves in close games. We can't afford to play 4 on 5 on offense and he's not big enough to earn his way on the defensive end.

Quote from: avid1010 on November 21, 2023, 01:05:16 AMI feel for Stevie...you know he puts the work in...but it was shades of early last year when you could see he didn't want to find himself open from 3 or at the line.

Sean, Chase, and eventually Tre are going to be hard to pass on.

Quote from: PointWarrior on November 21, 2023, 01:10:36 AMgood problem to have but Sean & Chase clearly outplayed Stevie tonight...

Quote from: The Sultan on November 21, 2023, 12:49:54 AMSean was the PG when the run was ignited. He got the ball in the lane repeatedly when Tyler was struggling. Plus he can defend.

Quote from: DoctorV on November 21, 2023, 12:56:27 AMSean was huge, that shot was stones, that defense was massive.

Quote from: bilsu on November 21, 2023, 01:14:44 AMI will go with Sean Jones. Not only for that clutch 3, but the basket he scored when he came out from under the basket and then spun around the defender and scored.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 06:55:02 AMReally tough call. Jop's offense kept us in it early and he played some of his best defense against UCLA's hulking front line.

But ultimately, when no one stands out for the full 40, I'm going with the guy who played the biggest in the biggest moments.

Sean Cojones it is.

Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 21, 2023, 09:02:48 AMI really like Sean Jones and he's going to win plenty of SOTGs before his time at Marquette is done.

Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on December 30, 2023, 05:24:48 PMNumber 22 was the X-factor.  Career high 15 points, matching Kolek for the team high, despite playing only 12 minutes.  Sean Jones played a big part in sacking Creighton.

Quote from: mugrad_89 on December 30, 2023, 02:30:18 PMHoly crap Sean!

Quote from: Eye on December 30, 2023, 02:41:01 PMThe Sean Jones Show.

Quote from: DoctorV on December 30, 2023, 03:02:10 PMSean Jones, you are a warrior.

PS. Shaka shouldn't have let you sit for the entire last 4.

Quote from: Afroman on December 30, 2023, 03:17:35 PMSean was the difference.

Quote from: frozena pizza on December 30, 2023, 05:11:07 PMI'd have to go with Sean. Part of what was so impressive was that he came back from a really rough first half and then ignited us to turn the game in our favor. We can't depend on him to do that every night, but man it was beautiful today. Really happy for him.

Quote from: MU82 on November 11, 2025, 01:31:01 PMActually ...

I do find it really funny that the one SOTG post I made for those two games he played well in, I said this.

Quote from: jfp61 on December 30, 2023, 03:07:26 PMOso should win.
16 boards. and 9 offensive.
(sean played flawlessly after his first possesion. But Creighton's gameplan was clearly to let him fire off shots)

I just hope he can play somewhat reliable minutes man. Nigel will need to be on the bench at times.

Also, I hope he is the last player under 5'10" ever to start for us. Because that stuff just doesn't work defensively.

We might be alright!

https://x.com/274sport/status/1988324957651456402?t=Kvwvmt6YKkM6xZFZGAci1g&s=19

I don't trust any news outlets that put in less than 28 hours per day!

Quote from: jfp61 on November 11, 2025, 01:48:18 PMI do find it really funny that the one SOTG post I made for those two games he played well in, I said this.

I just hope he can play somewhat reliable minutes man. Nigel will need to be on the bench at times.

Also, I hope he is the last player under 5'10" ever to start for us. Because that stuff just doesn't work defensively.

Completely agree with the last paragraph.  That has always been an underlying concern.  And I do not see how you can play Sean and Nigel together for that reason.   Rare exceptions, of course.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 11, 2025, 01:48:18 PMI do find it really funny that the one SOTG post I made for those two games he played well in, I said this.

I just hope he can play somewhat reliable minutes man. Nigel will need to be on the bench at times.

Also, I hope he is the last player under 5'10" ever to start for us. Because that stuff just doesn't work defensively.

I actually think we mostly agree on this stuff. It's just revisionist history to think that Scoopers weren't pretty high on him two years ago.

I'm a realist, and I have eyes (even if my vision ain't what it used to be). Sean was  really bad Sunday, and the fact that it doesn't appear as if his shooting has improved even after nearly 2 years off is disappointing. But we need him, so I hope he can provide the same kind of spark in brief spurts that he did during the first couple months of the 2023-24 season.

BTW, in looking through those threads to get those Scoop takes, I saw a significant number of posts from Scoopers who thought Sean should be starting over Stevie, and even a few who were ripping Kolek for playing poorly. We're not a patient group.

I would recommend checking out some January 2024 threads from when Sean was taking away PG minutes from TKo.

Quote from: tower912 on November 11, 2025, 03:13:31 PMI would recommend checking out some January 2024 threads from when Sean was taking away PG minutes from TKo.

There is a difference though... TK was always a good defender. I don't know what sean will be good at. Plus he is older, and has less eligibility left.

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 10, 2025, 08:28:32 PMClassic example of projection Muggsy. Kudos! You're really good at that.

Don't rip on him. He is finally taking his medication.

Quote from: tower912 on November 10, 2025, 08:37:38 PM3 days prior, Sean was the man.

This

Quote from: Newsdreams on November 11, 2025, 06:17:26 PMDon't rip on him. He is finally taking his medication.

I wasn't projecting anything. Once again my comments went over his head. 

Quote from: MuggsyB on November 11, 2025, 06:56:53 PMI wasn't projecting anything. Once again my comments went over his head. 

:o  :P