It's good that some form of hoops is back. Houston is freaking gargantuan without VV.
Strong start for Chet. I was completely wrong about him.
I was completely right about Chet
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2025, 06:52:10 PMStrong start for Chet. I was completely wrong about him.
I'm boycotting the NBA
Chet is good, but also an example of what is wrong with the max contract, especially now with more restrictive cap rules. Paying a good player that amount of your cap comes back to haunt you eventually. It should be for guys like Giannis, Shai, etc. But if the team doesn't give him the max, someone will.
If Amen Thompson develops a consistent J? Look out.
I noticed the OKC fans cheered Steven Adams but booed Durant. ;)
Quote from: wadesworld on October 21, 2025, 06:59:53 PMChet is good, but also an example of what is wrong with the max contract, especially now with more restrictive cap rules. Paying a good player that amount of your cap comes back to haunt you eventually. It should be for guys like Giannis, Shai, etc. But if the team doesn't give him the max, someone will.
Join me in boycotting the NBA
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 21, 2025, 06:52:46 PMI was completely right about Chet
His cultural misappropriation was distasteful, but now he's extending it to being good at basketball too?
Luka looks great. The rest of the Lakers do not.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2025, 07:03:25 PMIf Amen Thompson develops a consistent J? Look out.
Amen!
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2025, 10:58:05 PMLuka looks great. The rest of the Lakers do not.
I see why Ayton was available as a free agent.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2025, 07:03:25 PMIf Amen Thompson develops a consistent J? Look out.
Year 3 and he still can't shoot a lick. At this point, I don't know how anyone can realistically expect it to change.
Very good player but it's a huge hole in his game.
Rockets-Thunder was an awful rock fight of a game...that got great under 5 min and turned into a fantastic game. I turned it off multiple times in the first half and 3rd quarter.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 21, 2025, 10:58:05 PMLuka looks great. The rest of the Lakers do not.
Lakers are absolutely toast if Luka or LeBron misses significant time. Unless Knecht makes some huge jump, 25-30 min each of Gabe Vincent and mid 30s Marcus Smart is a prescription for a play in game. Vanderbilt looked awful. Laravia and a washed Kleiber aren't moving the needle.
https://x.com/DrGuru_/status/1980839867686019174
Smart doing what won him a DPOY on the offensive end is genius. Might win an MVP doing this.
He's the Brad Davison of the NBA.
KD blamed himself:
"I missed the free throws, and I fouled somebody at the end. I think those two plays are the reason we lost."
KD could have really been the Webber-ish goat had the refs seen him ask for a time-out late in regulation. The Rockets didn't have any TOs left, so that would have been a technical foul, and the Thunder would have gotten the ball.
"None of the three game officials saw Kevin signal that timeout. That's why it wasn't granted before the expiration of time," crew chief Zach Zarba said.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 22, 2025, 09:51:18 AMhttps://x.com/DrGuru_/status/1980839867686019174
Smart doing what won him a DPOY on the offensive end is genius. Might win an MVP doing this.
He's the Brad Davison of the NBA.
He also fouled Jimmy by stepping into and standing underneath him on a jumper, then collapsed to the ground when Jimmy collided with him on his way down to try and draw a flagrant or something.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 22, 2025, 11:04:02 AMHe also fouled Jimmy by stepping into and standing underneath him on a jumper, then collapsed to the ground when Jimmy collided with him on his way down to try and draw a flagrant or something.
And tried to pull Steph's arm off of his body. I now understand why some people are so high on the Lakers as a contender. I know I don't want Giannis playing on the same court as Marcus Smart. Lose a game to keep Giannis healthy.
https://x.com/Rate_the_Refs/status/1980834783749181468?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1980834783749181468%7Ctwgr%5E8cababa3a14125425c30451ab0c704db935e8251%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2Fmarcus-smart-foul-steph-curry-video
Quote from: wadesworld on October 22, 2025, 11:41:59 AMAnd tried to pull Steph's arm off of his body. I now understand why some people are so high on the Lakers as a contender. I know I don't want Giannis playing on the same court as Marcus Smart. Lose a game to keep Giannis healthy.
https://x.com/Rate_the_Refs/status/1980834783749181468?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1980834783749181468%7Ctwgr%5E8cababa3a14125425c30451ab0c704db935e8251%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2Fmarcus-smart-foul-steph-curry-video
First, I 100% agree with this foul call on Smart.
But it is interesting that this type of stuff happened all the time in the 80's and if the refs did anything, it would be to talk to the players and ask them to "cool it".
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 22, 2025, 12:11:05 PMFirst, I 100% agree with this foul call on Smart.
But it is interesting that this type of stuff happened all the time in the 80's and if the refs did anything, it would be to talk to the players and ask them to "cool it".
1) the players are a lot bigger and stronger than in the 80s. For every Charles Oakley or big enforcer of the 80s, there are numerous guards and small forwards in todays NBA that are freakishly strong in comparison to their 80s counterparts. Its not a disapragement of talent back then, just a realistic comparison of how nutrition, training, and changing of the makeup of NBA athletes turned out a much bigger and stronger average player.
2) Sports science and medicine has come a long ways as well, so we know a lot more about what actions and events can cause serious and lasting injury and harm and thus need to be watched out for.
Both those things lead to a very different monitoring and policing of the game.
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on October 22, 2025, 08:56:06 AMYear 3 and he still can't shoot a lick. At this point, I don't know how anyone can realistically expect it to change.
Very good player but it's a huge hole in his game.
Paul Pressey on steroids.
Also, Sengun will be breakout player of the year. Already very good, but will be top 10 guy in the league this year.
Quote from: Jockey on October 22, 2025, 01:51:10 PMPaul Presley on steroids.
Also, Sengun will be breakout player of the year. Already very good, but will be top 10 guy in the league this year.
I'm fully on board with Sengun being one of the most underrated players in the league, he's fantastic. But I don't know how a guy that averaged 20/10/4.5 the last 2 years and was an All Star will be a breakout player, unless he averages 30 and 15, which I don't think he will.
And I could buy a top 10 player ceiling, he's only 23 after all, but he's a few years away. He's got that methodical below the rim game like Jokic, but he's not a good enough shooter. Part of what makes Jokic lethal is he's close to a 40% outside shooter, which lets him space the floor and pass when people are forced close out on him. Sengun shoots under 30% from deep. He can develop it, look at Brook Lopez, but he's not there.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 22, 2025, 02:11:31 PMI'm fully on board with Sengun being one of the most underrated players in the league, he's fantastic. But I don't know how a guy that averaged 20/10/4.5 the last 2 years and was an All Star will be a breakout player, unless he averages 30 and 15, which I don't think he will.
And I could buy a top 10 player ceiling, he's only 23 after all, but he's a few years away. He's got that methodical below the rim game like Jokic, but he's not a good enough shooter. Part of what makes Jokic lethal is he's close to a 40% outside shooter, which lets him space the floor and pass when people are forced close out on him. Sengun shoots under 30% from deep. He can develop it, look at Brook Lopez, but he's not there.
I've seen a couple of killer dunks by Sengun, so I'm thinking he's more athletic than some give him credit for.
Quote from: MU82 on October 22, 2025, 04:56:05 PMI've seen a couple of killer dunks by Sengun, so I'm thinking he's more athletic than some give him credit for.
I don't think he's entirely unathletic, but he's also 6'10 so he can have an 18" vertical and still throw down. I mean I've seen Jokic catch an alley oop and dunk over people. I just mean he's 23, as young and spry as he'll ever be, and his game is not explosive or quick, even though he plays inside out.
Wemby vs Flagg right now.
Wemby just schooled Flagg and Davis with a hard dribble and then a tomahawk flush. He's gotten a little stronger.
Strong debut for Edegecombe.
Bucks might not be a ton better this year, but they'll be more fun to watch. The ball will actually move and they won't dribble the ball for 20 of 24 seconds on the shot clock. I'd imagine the locker room will be better with Turner in and Dame, who never wanted to be in Milwaukee and always seemed like he was pouting, out. And Doc even has a starting lineup that makes sense!
In other Eastern Conference news, I need Embiid to stay healthy. I said a couple years ago when it was clear Maxey was a stud that the 76ers should trade Embiid and build around Maxey. They should be getting out and flying as a team, but I need Embiid to stay healthy and slow them down. A backcourt of Maxey, McCain, and Edgecomb would be awesome in a year or two.
Anybody else remember when the dentists proclaimed that Jalen Johnson had ruined his own life because he quit on Duke?
Uhhhhh.....Wemby is making an early statement.
Wemby is literally making Anthony Davis look like me guarding Davante in the post. The only thing stopping the young man is cheap fouls. I'm also wondering why guys would bite on his shot fake? There is a 0.0% chance you're blocking his shot unless it's from behind before he gets to his release point.
Really good night for the MU guys tonight. Oso looks like he's going to be a major contributor this year.
Quote from: CountryRoads on October 22, 2025, 10:35:47 PMReally good night for the MU guys tonight. Oso looks like he's going to be a major contributor this year.
Nice.
Quote from: CountryRoads on October 22, 2025, 10:35:47 PMReally good night for the MU guys tonight. Oso looks like he's going to be a major contributor this year.
He got the start though he played less minutes than Mark Williams. Way more minutes than Richards. Was surprised that Malauch didn't get off the bench.
Also didn't realize that former Badger Nigel Hayes is finally breaking into the NBA this season. I think he may have had a few 10 day contracts in the past but this is his first "real" NBA contract. Not something that happens to many 30 year olds.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 22, 2025, 09:31:28 PMBucks might not be a ton better this year, but they'll be more fun to watch. The ball will actually move and they won't dribble the ball for 20 of 24 seconds on the shot clock. I'd imagine the locker room will be better with Turner in and Dame, who never wanted to be in Milwaukee and always seemed like he was pouting, out. And Doc even has a starting lineup that makes sense!
In other Eastern Conference news, I need Embiid to stay healthy. I said a couple years ago when it was clear Maxey was a stud that the 76ers should trade Embiid and build around Maxey. They should be getting out and flying as a team, but I need Embiid to stay healthy and slow them down. A backcourt of Maxey, McCain, and Edgecomb would be awesome in a year or two.
Dame is tough for me. I just don't think he is an outwardly emotional guy, plus he was going through a divorce.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/46695228/sources-terry-rozier-arrested-part-gambling-inquiry
And Chauncey! dang!!
Anyone happen to know if Kuzma frequents the new Poto sportsbook?
Quote from: cheebs09 on October 23, 2025, 07:49:48 AMAnyone happen to know if Kuzma frequents the new Poto sportsbook?
Given the incompetence of the current FBI, I can't wait to see how they screw this up.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 22, 2025, 09:51:13 PMAnybody else remember when the dentists proclaimed that Jalen Johnson had ruined his own life because he quit on Duke?
I mean, at the time it did look questionable. He was a lottery pick that then slid based on that decision. It wasn't just some boomer take. Even very plugged in draft guys like Vecenie slide him into the mid 20s when up till that point, he'd been a pretty solid performer during the season. Obviously he's found his stride in the NBA and played really well the last 2 years, but at the time it was worth an eyebrow raise. Especially how slowly he then started his first few years in Atlanta.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 23, 2025, 12:46:50 AMAlso didn't realize that former Badger Nigel Hayes is finally breaking into the NBA this season. I think he may have had a few 10 day contracts in the past but this is his first "real" NBA contract. Not something that happens to many 30 year olds.
I feel like it happens every few years, especially with the really top tier Euroleague guys. Sometimes it works like Campazzo with the Nuggets. Sometimes it fails completely, like Mike James.
Nm.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 08:03:16 AMGiven the incompetence of the current FBI, I can't wait to see how they screw this up.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 06:55:46 AMhttps://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/46695228/sources-terry-rozier-arrested-part-gambling-inquiry
The NBA has two significant scandals. And we still haven't heard diddly squat from Silver regarding Ballmer, Kahwi, and the Clippers.
One other thing and I've mentioned this several times: we have a colossal gambling problem. And it doesn't help that every 10 secs, we have athletes and celebrities pimping these companies. The worst part about it is the access young people have to it which can lead to addiction. It's absolutely ridiculous and something needs to be done.
Oh....and now college athletes starting 11/1 can bet on NBA games? Great. How wonderful they can use their NIL money to bet now. This is insane. Addiction is real and these young kids are vulnerable.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:37:18 AMOne other thing and I've mentioned this several times: we have a colossal gambling problem. And it doesn't help that every 10 secs, we have athletes and celebrities pimping these companies. The worst part about it is the access young people have to it which can lead to addiction. It's absolutely ridiculous and something needs to be done.
Yes.
Nothing will be done. Toothpaste out of the tube. People will need that dopamine hit.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:26:15 AMThe NBA has two significant scandals. And we still haven't heard diddly squat from Silver regarding Ballmer, Kahwi, and the Clippers.
Don't worry. The FBI will fumble this
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 08:43:46 AMDon't worry. The FBI will fumble this
We still don't know the facts but regardless, it's important to recognize we have an enormous problem.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:37:18 AMOne other thing and I've mentioned this several times: we have a colossal gambling problem. And it doesn't help that every 10 secs, we have athletes and celebrities pimping these companies. The worst part about it is the access young people have to it which can lead to addiction. It's absolutely ridiculous and something needs to be done.
Oh....and now college athletes starting 11/1 can bet on NBA games? Great. How wonderful they can use their NIL money to bet now. This is insane. Addiction is real and these young kids are vulnerable.
I agree 100%. This is going to cause so many more problems than we realize now.
gambling is a scourge on professional and college sports and society in general and is detroying the integrity of the game. Now let us all sit in our seats in the Draft Kings Club or watch the game on the Draft Kings Sports Network.
Get him, Kash
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwOaj5A21z50ykgg4VlyMnY7lJq1RGNtpUEoyKpZV-LpYbYJBHAjMPfhm3&s=10)
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on October 23, 2025, 09:01:54 AMgambling is a scourge on professional and college sports and society in general and is detroying the integrity of the game. Now let us all sit in our seats in the Draft Kings Club or watch the game on the Draft Kings Sports Network.
This is the crux of the problem. The level of corruption is clearly ubiquitous. Obviously the sports leagues and government make a crap ton of money from gambling. That said Billy, from a societal and public health standpoint this is an unmitigated disaster which is even a bigger issue than the integrity of the NBA.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:12:59 AMThis is the crux the problem. The level of corruption is clearly ubiquitous. Obviously the sports leagues and government make a crap ton of money from gambling. That said Billy, from a societal and public health standpoint this is an unmitigated disaster which is even a bigger issue than the integrity of the NBA.
I'm with you 100%. We've put a drug in the pocket of addicts
This message is brought to you by Fan Duel, DraftKings, Hard Rock Bet, and ESPN bet.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 08:43:46 AMDon't worry. The FBI will fumble this
Well, considering this guy mentioned the "Toronto Rangers" in the press conference, you could be right.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:26:32 AMWell, considering this guy mentioned the "Toronto Rangers" in the press conference, you could be right.
It's not a stretch on my part. These guys in charge of the FBI are idiots and they've run off all the competent people. A confederacy of dunces but we can be racist again.
I have to admit the presser sounded like it was a scene from the Godfather. This seems like more of a mob story which involved some players in the NBA. Apparently the mob is still alive and well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:55:46 AMWe still don't know the facts but regardless, it's important to recognize we have an enormous problem.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:51:21 AMI have to admit the presser sounded like it was a scene from the Godfather. This seems like more of a mob story which involved some players in the NBA. Apparently the mob is still alive and well.
Was Valhalla mentioned?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 09:45:06 AMIt's not a stretch on my part. These guys in charge of the FBI are idiots and they've run off all the competent people. A confederacy of dunces but we can be racist again.
RIP John Kennedy Toole. Very sad.
https://www.npr.org/2025/10/23/nx-s1-5583614/nba-gambling-arrests-terry-rozier-chauncey-billups
https://x.com/johncanzanobft/status/1981370568156074118
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 23, 2025, 08:58:23 AMI agree 100%. This is going to cause so many more problems than we realize now.
And we have plenty of ways to see just how that will happen. The US is actually behind the curve too. Sports betting is insanely accepted and embedded in European sports culture, look how many Premier League clubs have betting companies as their sponsor. Hell, Brighton is owned by a famous and wildly successful gambler. There is a punters shop on corners all over the UK. And despite it being so normalized, there is still issues with it constantly. Ivan Toney from Brentford was on his way to being a superstar and a huge money transfer before he got banned for a year for betting on EPL matches, including some of his own.
https://bsky.app/profile/rodger.bsky.social/post/3m3uqk5wx4s2i
https://x.com/onlyfriends_pod/status/1981379130190156129?s=46
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:26:32 AMWell, considering this guy mentioned the "Toronto Rangers" in the press conference, you could be right.
Loved the Toronto Rangers as a kid. Nolan Ryan was one of the best dunkers I had ever seen.
Quote from: CountryRoads on October 22, 2025, 10:35:47 PMReally good night for the MU guys tonight. Oso looks like he's going to be a major contributor this year.
Kolek with 14 minutes, 7 points and 2 assists. He should be getting more regular minutes this season.
Chauncey after last night's game: "That pressure thing is nothing to me, man," Billups said. "I do the best I can and let the chips fall where they may. You know that about me by now."
Oops.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 23, 2025, 06:46:44 AMDame is tough for me. I just don't think he is an outwardly emotional guy, plus he was going through a divorce.
True on the lack of emotion and him going through some personal stuff. I just will never forget that immediately after the trade to the Bucks happened, Dame's agent thanked...THE MIAMI HEAT for trying to get Dame, saying, "They did everything they could to acquire Dame. It takes two to get a deal done. I appreciate all that Pat, Andy and Micky did to try and make this happen."
I had already felt like Jrue was being very underrated and Dame was overrated, and wasn't sure that having a second guy who liked to dribble the air out of the ball offensively and doesn't try defensively was going to work well. Obviously, the idea of Dame and Giannis pick and rolls was incredibly enticing, and I understood why the Bucks did it. But I personally never bought into it working, and it turned out worse than I imagined. The fact that his agent was out there thanking the team that just knocked the Bucks out of the Playoffs, and had done so a few years prior as well, for trying to get Dame after he'd been traded to the Bucks rubbed me the wrong way from day one.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 02:17:44 PMChauncey after last night's game: "That pressure thing is nothing to me, man," Billups said. "I do the best I can and let the chips fall where they may. You know that about me by now."
Oops.
Were you expecting him to just fold? I think he's going to up the ante and go all in.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 02:21:51 PMTrue on the lack of emotion and him going through some personal stuff. I just will never forget that immediately after the trade to the Bucks happened, Dame's agent thanked...THE MIAMI HEAT for trying to get Dame, saying, "They did everything they could to acquire Dame. It takes two to get a deal done. I appreciate all that Pat, Andy and Micky did to try and make this happen."
I had already felt like Jrue was being very underrated and Dame was overrated, and wasn't sure that having a second guy who liked to dribble the air out of the ball offensively and doesn't try defensively was going to work well. Obviously, the idea of Dame and Giannis pick and rolls was incredibly enticing, and I understood why the Bucks did it. But I personally never bought into it working, and it turned out worse than I imagined. The fact that his agent was out there thanking the team that just knocked the Bucks out of the Playoffs, and had done so a few years prior as well, for trying to get Dame after he'd been traded to the Bucks rubbed me the wrong way from day one.
Dame not working out doesn't mean he was overrated. Sure fire hall of famer just coming out of his prime. Seems like he never wanted to come there in the first place and between that, the injuries, and the personal life it was a real perfect storm of mediocrity.
They weren't winning another title bringing the same group back. They ended up not doing anything with Dame either. I get why they did it.
But the Bucks have bigger problems than that IMO.
I'm just happy the Bucks are fun again. I have no idea how good they'll be but last night was refreshing
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 03:23:04 PMDame not working out doesn't mean he was overrated. Sure fire hall of famer just coming out of his prime. Seems like he never wanted to come there in the first place and between that, the injuries, and the personal life it was a real perfect storm of mediocrity.
I think Milwaukee exposed him some. When he was in Portland he had the excuse of never really getting to play on a championship level roster. Then the Bucks traded a true winner away for him, and the team got significantly worse. Injuries kept the Bucks from potentially winning titles in 2022 and 2023 (less likely than 2022), and they might have won they title in 2020 if not for the pandemic interrupting the season (they were 52-8 through 60 games that year), plus they very easily could've won the title in 2019 (up 2-0 on Toronto and went to double overtime in game 3). The Bucks were a much better team with Eric Bledsoe and Jrue Holiday at point guard than they were with Dame.
He's 5'9" and doesn't even try defensively. When you're that little, you have to at least put in effort. And the 35 foot side step 3s are awesome when they go in, and shooting them at a 25% or whatever clip is incredible given the difficulty, but that's still a horrendously inefficient possession, and that's how Dame loved to play.
Quote from: BM1090 on October 23, 2025, 03:29:20 PMI'm just happy the Bucks are fun again. I have no idea how good they'll be but last night was refreshing
I'm saving judgement for when we play someone that isn't the Washington Wizards at home. I remember being excited after game 1 last year, thinking Trent and Prince in the starting lineup was going to work and those guys really knew how to play. 6 straight losses came after that.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 03:35:30 PMI'm saving judgement for when we play someone that isn't the Washington Wizards at home. I remember being excited after game 1 last year, thinking Trent and Prince in the starting lineup was going to work and those guys really knew how to play. 6 straight losses came after that.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 03:35:30 PMI'm saving judgement for when we play someone that isn't the Washington Wizards at home. I remember being excited after game 1 last year, thinking Trent and Prince in the starting lineup was going to work and those guys really knew how to play. 6 straight losses came after that.
I have no idea if it'll work. But I do know they have a lot of shooters around Giannis, a lot of unselfish players, and are committed to playing uptempo. They'll be fun even if they are average.
Do the Bulls have a real problem in the front office? I'm not looking to second guess any deals, non-deals, etc. The Bull's GM has no idea if he was presented a trade opportunity:
When asked if New Orleans offered the Bulls two first-round picks, including its unprotected one next summer, in order to move up to select Derik Queen in June, Artūras Karnišovas said:
"I don't know exactly, but they landed one good player."
I'd bet $1M that Jerry West remembers every significant deal for the past 40 years, and this guy can't remember 4 months ago???? That is a serious medical issue if true.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 03:33:40 PMI think Milwaukee exposed him some. When he was in Portland he had the excuse of never really getting to play on a championship level roster. Then the Bucks traded a true winner away for him, and the team got significantly worse. Injuries kept the Bucks from potentially winning titles in 2022 and 2023 (less likely than 2022), and they might have won they title in 2020 if not for the pandemic interrupting the season (they were 52-8 through 60 games that year), plus they very easily could've won the title in 2019 (up 2-0 on Toronto and went to double overtime in game 3). The Bucks were a much better team with Eric Bledsoe and Jrue Holiday at point guard than they were with Dame.
He's 5'9" and doesn't even try defensively. When you're that little, you have to at least put in effort. And the 35 foot side step 3s are awesome when they go in, and shooting them at a 25% or whatever clip is incredible given the difficulty, but that's still a horrendously inefficient possession, and that's how Dame loved to play.
Ive always been a big Dame fan, at his peak with the Blazers he was probably my favorite player in league to watch. I think he was unfairly maligned at times in Portland and actually made a dysfunctional broken organization look far better than they were for a time.
But that being said, Ive always thought he was best as the star on a fringe playoff team. At his peak, he could elevate teams in big games by sheer force of will. He had stretches of unconsciousness that were second to probably only Steph for awhile. But he's never been a PG, especially a PG that needs to be the second option like was the plan with Giannis. In retrospect, being excited about the trade was more like getting pumped about getting a great player card in Ultimate Team in FIFA or 2K where great players are great players, regardless of fit.
I hold no ill will towards him. It was just the wrong move, unfortunate especially that it wasted a few years of Giannis' prime
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 23, 2025, 03:46:49 PMDo the Bulls have a real problem in the front office?
Pretty sure the answer to that was "yes" if you asked any time in the last 20 years
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 03:33:40 PMI think Milwaukee exposed him some. When he was in Portland he had the excuse of never really getting to play on a championship level roster. Then the Bucks traded a true winner away for him, and the team got significantly worse. Injuries kept the Bucks from potentially winning titles in 2022 and 2023 (less likely than 2022), and they might have won they title in 2020 if not for the pandemic interrupting the season (they were 52-8 through 60 games that year), plus they very easily could've won the title in 2019 (up 2-0 on Toronto and went to double overtime in game 3). The Bucks were a much better team with Eric Bledsoe and Jrue Holiday at point guard than they were with Dame.
He's 5'9" and doesn't even try defensively. When you're that little, you have to at least put in effort. And the 35 foot side step 3s are awesome when they go in, and shooting them at a 25% or whatever clip is incredible given the difficulty, but that's still a horrendously inefficient possession, and that's how Dame loved to play.
Dame last season was a somewhat quicker version of Rowsey.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 23, 2025, 09:52:40 AMWhatever happened to personal responsibility?
I don't disagree with you about personal responsibility. The problem however is a little different in this case. When you have apps with easy access, as well as algorithms that can target kids, or even young college players that are making millions in NIL, it's arguably exploitation. I equate it to Instagram targeting young girls and messing with their self-esteem.
Ironically I listened to the end of this press conference on NBA radio on the way to work. After the presser concluded, there were two radio adds for online betting companies. You can't make this up. Young people are absolutely bombarded with this crap Pakuni. It's not right and can lead to tremendous emotional destruction, or worse.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 07:10:07 PMI don't disagree with you about personal responsibility. The problem however is a little different in this case. When you have apps with easy access, as well as algorithms that can target kids, or even young college players that are making millions in NIL, it's arguably exploitation. I equate it to Instagram targeting young girls and messing with their self-esteem.
Ironically I listened to the end of this press conference on NBA radio on the way to work. After the presser concluded, there were two radio adds for online betting companies. You can't make this up. Young people are absolutely bombarded with this crap Pakuni. It's not right and can lead to tremendous emotional destruction, or worse.
Join me in boycotting the NBa
Wemby was a lot of fun to watch yesterday. I had a similar skill-set (with better handles) but am a few inches shorter than him. :) It sorta looks like he's playing nerf hoop in his basement. He's a legit 7'4....maybe 7'5.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 03:33:40 PMI think Milwaukee exposed him some. When he was in Portland he had the excuse of never really getting to play on a championship level roster. Then the Bucks traded a true winner away for him, and the team got significantly worse. Injuries kept the Bucks from potentially winning titles in 2022 and 2023 (less likely than 2022), and they might have won they title in 2020 if not for the pandemic interrupting the season (they were 52-8 through 60 games that year), plus they very easily could've won the title in 2019 (up 2-0 on Toronto and went to double overtime in game 3). The Bucks were a much better team with Eric Bledsoe and Jrue Holiday at point guard than they were with Dame.
He's 5'9" and doesn't even try defensively. When you're that little, you have to at least put in effort. And the 35 foot side step 3s are awesome when they go in, and shooting them at a 25% or whatever clip is incredible given the difficulty, but that's still a horrendously inefficient possession, and that's how Dame loved to play.
Or dame was a very ball dominant player as you allude above and Giannis has taken a much more ball dominant role in recent years with a significantly higher usage rate than dame even before they played together. I don't think dame is as bad as you make him out to be, I think he's just a bad fit to be second fiddle
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 07:33:46 PMOr dame was a very ball dominant player as you allude above and Giannis has taken a much more ball dominant role in recent years with a significantly higher usage rate than dame even before they played together. I don't think dame is as bad as you make him out to be, I think he's just a bad fit to be second fiddle
It was for sure a bad fit, and I agree he's not made to be second fiddle. But I also don't think he's anywhere good enough to be the best player on a title team, like most thought he was prior to coming to Milwaukee.
I think he's a top 75 offensive player, but in my opinion, I don't see him being a top 75 player in the history of basketball like he has been named.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 07:36:21 PMIt was for sure a bad fit, and I agree he's not made to be second fiddle. But I also don't think he's anywhere good enough to be the best player on a title team, like most thought he was prior to coming to Milwaukee.
I think he's a top 75 offensive player, but in my opinion, I don't see him being a top 75 player in the history of basketball like he has been named.
Plus he supports BLM. Disqualifying
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 07:40:28 PMPlus he supports BLM. Disqualifying
That's why I'm boycotting the NBa
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 07:40:28 PMPlus he supports BLM. Disqualifying
I can only speak for myself, but despite the obvious flaws, I support the Bureau of Land Management also.
Lebron hasn't said anything yet. I think he knows Damon Jones pretty well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 07:10:07 PMI don't disagree with you about personal responsibility. The problem however is a little different in this case. When you have apps with easy access, as well as algorithms that can target kids, or even young college players that are making millions in NIL, it's arguably exploitation. I equate it to Instagram targeting young girls and messing with their self-esteem.
Ironically I listened to the end of this press conference on NBA radio on the way to work. After the presser concluded, there were two radio adds for online betting companies. You can't make this up. Young people are absolutely bombarded with this crap Pakuni. It's not right and can lead to tremendous emotional destruction, or worse.
In other words, personal responsibility doesn't matter to you. You prefer the Nanny State.
Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2025, 08:04:47 PMIn other words, personal responsibility doesn't matter to you. You prefer the Nanny State.
Seriously?
Quote from: MU82 on October 23, 2025, 08:04:47 PMIn other words, personal responsibility doesn't matter to you. You prefer the Nanny State.
Lol. I'm curious about your thoughts on Jay Jones? Do you agree with Pritzker who said today, "he apologized," and "he meant it". I guess that settles it. How come there's been a grand total of one Democratic leader that has said he should resign? Imagine if a Republican leader wrote those texts and get back to me. And btw he actually knows those two little kids. He saw them often.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:28:31 PMLol. I'm curious about your thoughts on Jay Jones? Do you agree with Pritzker who said today, "he apologized," and "he meant it". I guess that settles it. How come there's been a grand total of one Democratic leader that has said he should resign? Imagine if a Republican leader wrote those texts and get back to me. And btw he actually knows those two little kids. He saw them often.
Wow, politics out of control here
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:28:31 PMLol. I'm curious about your thoughts on Jay Jones? Do you agree with Pritzker who said today, "he apologized," and "he meant it". I guess that settles it. How come there's been a grand total of one Democratic leader that has said he should resign? Imagine if a Republican leader wrote those texts and get back to me. And btw he actually knows those two little kids. He saw them often.
I can't imagine
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 08:29:52 PMWow, politics out of control here
That's why I'm boycotting the NBA
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 08:29:52 PMWow, politics out of control here
You're correct. I just responded to his post. My apologies.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:03:58 PMLebron hasn't said anything yet. I think he knows Damon Jones pretty Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:03:58 PMMichael Jordan hasn't said anything yet, either, and he got suspended by the NBA for gambling
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 08:39:10 PMQuote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:03:58 PMLebron hasn't said anything yet. I think he knows Damon Jones pretty Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:03:58 PMMichael Jordan hasn't said anything yet, either, and he got suspended by the NBA for gambling
Good point. Although I don't think he was suspended because of economic reasons.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:41:26 PMGood point. Although I don't think he was suspended because of economic reasons.
No, he was suspended for gambling. That's why his dad was shot. Imagine getting your dad killed over a gambling debt?!? SMDH
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2025, 08:43:25 PMNo, he was suspended for gambling. That's why his dad was shot. Imagine getting your dad killed over a gambling debt?!? SMDH
I don't know all tbe facts on that one.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:37:18 AMOne other thing and I've mentioned this several times: we have a colossal gambling problem. And it doesn't help that every 10 secs, we have athletes and celebrities pimping these companies. The worst part about it is the access young people have to it which can lead to addiction. It's absolutely ridiculous and something needs to be done.
Oh....and now college athletes starting 11/1 can bet on NBA games? Great. How wonderful they can use their NIL money to bet now. This is insane. Addiction is real and these young kids are vulnerable.
I agree. Gambling problems amongst young people is a bit out of control.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:38:33 PMYou're correct. I just responded to his post. My apologies.
I've had it up to here with you Muggsy *gestures at a condescendingly low level that's clearly a derogatory comment about height.*
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:45:33 PMI don't know all tbe facts on that one.
Terry bets everything facts?
Quote from: wadesworld on October 23, 2025, 07:36:21 PMI think he's a top 75 offensive player, but in my opinion, I don't see him being a top 75 player in the history of basketball like he has been named.
Has he had a top 75 career? Not sure. Was he in his peak few years a top 75 player all time? I'd argue yes. But I wouldn't die on that hill.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:03:58 PMLebron hasn't said anything yet. I think he knows Damon Jones pretty well.
Obligatory whenever Damon Jones is mentioned for the rest of time...
In a career of a thousand quoatable quips and moments from NBA on TNT, its still one of my favorite ever. Magic droning on about explaining the dunk and Chuck BEGGING them to move on and get the cameras back onto the sidelines.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 09:39:32 PMI've had it up to here with you Muggsy *gestures at a condescendingly low level that's clearly a derogatory comment about height.*
We must respect our diminutive citizens and not project our frustrations on them out of the clear blue sky.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 10:20:17 PMWe must respect our diminutive citizens and not project our frustrations on them out of the clear blue sky.
I'll do no such thing. Troll
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 23, 2025, 10:27:30 PMI'll do no such thing. Troll
Calm down. When you go low, I can always go lower.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 08:45:33 PMI don't know all tbe facts on that one.
I do. People that don't believe Jordan's old man was killed because of his gambling debts are the same ones that don't believe the Bowling Green Massacre occurred
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 10:37:31 PMCalm down. When you go low, I can always go lower.
I'm gonna put you in a diaper and burp you, pal
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 24, 2025, 10:15:52 AMI'm gonna put you in a diaper and burp you, pal
Some dudes on Scoop would pay you major coin for that
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:12:59 AMThis is the crux of the problem. The level of corruption is clearly ubiquitous. Obviously the sports leagues and government make a crap ton of money from gambling. That said Billy, from a societal and public health standpoint this is an unmitigated disaster which is even a bigger issue than the integrity of the NBA.
Since when do we care about public health in this country?
Or unmitigated disasters?
Quote from: jesmu84 on October 24, 2025, 10:46:04 AMSince when do we care about public health in this country?
We will tackle this situation if it can be monetized by the appropriate people. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Quote from: jesmu84 on October 24, 2025, 10:46:04 AMSince when do we care about public health in this country?
Hey, some of us have concepts of a plan!
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 23, 2025, 09:12:59 AMThis is the crux of the problem. The level of corruption is clearly ubiquitous. Obviously the sports leagues and government make a crap ton of money from gambling. That said Billy, from a societal and public health standpoint this is an unmitigated disaster which is even a bigger issue than the integrity of the NBA.
Last night a friend texted me about both the NBA sting and the NCAA allowing gambling on sports thinking it was ridiculous and "Gambling is going to be the new Joe Camel. A lot of lives are going to be ruined."
This is a friend who, for a few year,s made his living counting cards after being laid off from his IT job (brilliant guy, came out well ahead and went back to IT). He's never bet on sports but is a big fan of college sports. Even "professional" gamblers (people who have self control) know how F'ed society is when it comes to sports wagering.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 24, 2025, 10:19:25 AMSome dudes on Scoop would pay you major coin for that
I ain't here to kink shame.
Plenty of you have humiliation fetishes. Some of us are just not still in denial.
Quote from: jesmu84 on October 24, 2025, 10:46:04 AMSince when do we care about public health in this country?
Shorter citizens are generally healthier with lower (no pun intended) mortality rates.
Thais gambling "scandal" is a nothing burger. There has always been illegal gambling.
The FBI needs this now cuz it is a better look for them than ignoring pedos is.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on October 24, 2025, 01:13:19 PMLast night a friend texted me about both the NBA sting and the NCAA allowing gambling on sports thinking it was ridiculous and "Gambling is going to be the new Joe Camel. A lot of lives are going to be ruined."
This is a friend who, for a few year,s made his living counting cards after being laid off from his IT job (brilliant guy, came out well ahead and went back to IT). He's never bet on sports but is a big fan of college sports. Even "professional" gamblers (people who have self control) know how F'ed society is when it comes to sports wagering.
Coming from a recovering gambling addict who struggles with relapses, the culture around sports betting has gotten so out of control its not even funny. I fell into the trap before it was legal and advertised in sporting events and every network had a betting show with "experts" who were randomly online contributors to the network before they got slotted into the new betting show. I can't even imagine what the siren song is like now for a naive 20 something.
Even more sobering is the fact that, I can't think of any other way of making money (outside of the equally scummy and fugazi day trading/Forex gurus) where the activities, methods, and approach of the few true winners couldn't possibly differ any more than what is commonly shown. The consistent winners these days have statistical models and algorithms and take nearly all, if not all, personal decision making out of the equation. Most don't even watch individual games. The days of the sharp who sat with a paper of lines and stats and had the magic touch picking winners was likely over stated and is now long gone.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 24, 2025, 08:52:44 PMComing from a recovering gambling addict who struggles with relapses, the culture around sports betting has gotten so out of control its not even funny. I fell into the trap before it was legal and advertised in sporting events and every network had a betting show with "experts" who were randomly online contributors to the network before they got slotted into the new betting show. I can't even imagine what the siren song is like now for a naive 20 something.
Even more sobering is the fact that, I can't think of any other way of making money (outside of the equally scummy and fugazi day trading/Forex gurus) where the activities, methods, and approach of the few true winners couldn't possibly differ any more than what is commonly shown. The consistent winners these days have statistical models and algorithms and take nearly all, if not all, personal decision making out of the equation. Most don't even watch individual games. The days of the sharp who sat with a paper of lines and stats and had the magic touch picking winners was likely over stated and is now long gone.
I will be rooting for you, JWags. And I appreciate you sharing this. I don't think people realize the ramifications and harm that pimping gambling will have on our younger population. And it's literally every 2 mins when watching sports these days.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 22, 2025, 02:11:31 PMI'm fully on board with Sengun being one of the most underrated players in the league, he's fantastic. But I don't know how a guy that averaged 20/10/4.5 the last 2 years and was an All Star will be a breakout player, unless he averages 30 and 15, which I don't think he will.
And I could buy a top 10 player ceiling, he's only 23 after all, but he's a few years away. He's got that methodical below the rim game like Jokic, but he's not a good enough shooter. Part of what makes Jokic lethal is he's close to a 40% outside shooter, which lets him space the floor and pass when people are forced close out on him. Sengun shoots under 30% from deep. He can develop it, look at Brook Lopez, but he's not there.
A player ascending from a top 20 guy to an MVP candidate is harder and more challenging than going from low level guy to a solid starter. He might only move up past a few other players in the elite pecking order, but the degree of difficulty is off the charts.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQN_3rpCdFh/?igsh=ZTduamc1Ym9xNDJl
Haha
Quote from: wadesworld on October 25, 2025, 02:40:55 PMhttps://www.instagram.com/reel/DQN_3rpCdFh/?igsh=ZTduamc1Ym9xNDJl
Haha
Carlos Boozer nods in approval
Quote from: wadesworld on October 25, 2025, 08:54:36 PMAnd LBJ. And KD.
KD uses the hair enhancers? I thought its a pretty established ongoing joke how bad his hair/hairline is and how spotty and unmaintained it is.
Are the Bulls elite
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 26, 2025, 12:12:33 AMAre the Bulls elite
You at least have to call Billy Donovan to ask.
I said since the Sixers got Maxey that they should trade Embiid and build around him. They are straight up just better without Embiid and could've gotten a ton for him. Maxey, McCain, and Edgecomb could be one of the better backcourts in the league and they should be flying up and down the court. All Embiid does is slow them down.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 27, 2025, 08:28:07 PMI said since the Sixers got Maxey that they should trade Embiid and build around him. They are straight up just better without Embiid and could've gotten a ton for him. Maxey, McCain, and Edgecomb could be one of the better backcourts in the league and they should be flying up and down the court. All Embiid does is slow them down.
Edgecombe is a freaking stud. Harper has been impressive as well. No one is going to take Jojo's or George's contract.
East is wide open this year
If the Bucks are a top 4 seed I don't think there's anybody that can convince me Giannis isn't the best player in the world. It's Giannis and a bunch of role players (who finally fit well around Giannis).
Also, anyone who thought Kon was going to be just a guy or not worth a top 10 pick had it wrong. He is legit.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 28, 2025, 09:33:37 PMIf the Bucks are a top 4 seed I don't think there's anybody that can convince me Giannis isn't the best player in the world. It's Giannis and a bunch of role players (who finally fit well around Giannis).
Also, anyone who thought Kon was going to be just a guy or not worth a top 10 pick had it wrong. He is legit.
It's a little early but Giannis is Giannis. Are they better defensively? Where did Rollins come from?
Quote from: wadesworld on October 28, 2025, 09:33:37 PMIf the Bucks are a top 4 seed I don't think there's anybody that can convince me Giannis isn't the best player in the world. It's Giannis and a bunch of role players (who finally fit well around Giannis).
Also, anyone who thought Kon was going to be just a guy or not worth a top 10 pick had it wrong. He is legit.
I think you're underselling the other guys (especially Turner) but the team structure is infinitely better this year. It's fun to watch. Turner really opens a ton up with his unselfish play. He's making a difference and he hasn't even got it going yet.
I think Giannis wins MVP this year.
And count me as one who was probably wrong about Kon
Quote from: wadesworld on October 28, 2025, 09:33:37 PMAlso, anyone who thought Kon was going to be just a guy or not worth a top 10 pick had it wrong. He is legit.
I may be wrong, but I think its early to tell. For a pure stats perspective, he couldn't be on a better team. The Hornets won't be good, but they will run and score a million points every game and Sexton/Melo will get him the ball in spots plenty. Plus the Hornets can't stop anyone so any defense limitations won't stand out cause the whole team is a turnstile.
If he's still shooting 45%+ plus from 3 come Christmas, I'll be ready throw my hands up a bit more perhaps. Its kind of hard to gauge cause a lot of guys I look at him as similar to, didn't start right away getting big minutes with 12-15 shots a game.
Like McDermott came in to Chicago as a lottery pick but was still sitting behind Jimmy and Dunleavy. Kispert was a similar player but even a better shooter/scorer his last year at Gonzaga, but came in as a lottery pick to Washington and was in a loaded 2/3 situation. But with the injuries the Hornets have to Brandon Miller and others, its an interesting situation to start.
I still think he's gonna play 12-15 years in the NBA. But I'm not sold, and won't be for awhile, about him being a strong second man on a contending team.
Interesting to hear Jordan talk about load management as part of his "insights" on NBC. Spoiler alert: He doesn't like it.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 01:17:00 AMInteresting to hear Jordan talk about load management as part of his "insights" on NBC. Spoiler alert: He doesn't like it.
Oldmanyellsatcloud.gif
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 01:17:00 AMInteresting to hear Jordan talk about load management as part of his "insights" on NBC. Spoiler alert: He doesn't like it.
Not everyone gets to have an 18 month hiatus because of a gambling habit that got a parent killed
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 29, 2025, 06:22:49 AMNot everyone gets to have an 18 month hiatus because of a gambling habit that got a parent killed
Mike's dad was killed because he was going to expose the truth about the moon landing.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 29, 2025, 08:30:59 AMMike's dad was killed because he was going to expose the truth about the moon landing.
He wouldn't have been the first to have that happen nor the last
Ryan Rollins shoplifting at Target might turn out to be one of the better things to happen to the Bucks organization in a while.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 29, 2025, 09:51:15 AMRyan Rollins shoplifting at Target might turn out to be one of the better things to happen to the Bucks organization in a while.
I sympathized with him. He spent his formative young adult years in Toledo, he likely didn't learn or experience standard cultural norms in society.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 01:17:00 AMInteresting to hear Jordan talk about load management as part of his "insights" on NBC. Spoiler alert: He doesn't like it.
To expand on this more, one of my concerns about NBC's coverage of the NBA so far is that they seem more concerned about making reminiscent appeals to the past rather than talk about the NBA now. Hauling out MJ to sh*t on the league now, when he couldn't do ANYTHING as a GM and owner, isn't really insightful at all.
I hope that, going forward, every question to Jordan isn't, "When you played blah blah, so what do you think about today's NBA players blah blahing?" He knows a lot about basketball, he deals with modern athletes all the time through his brand, and he was a team owner (albeit a pretty bad one) until just recently. He should be able to talk about today's NBA without automatically making references to 1996. It's largely on Tirico or whoever is interviewing Jordan to focus on today and not 30 years ago, because all Jordan's gonna do is answer the questions he's asked.
That said, he did play 80+ games most years, he did work his body every bit as hard as anybody who ever played (including today's great athletes), he had to play back-to-backs and 4 games in 6 days just as today's players do, and he had long postseason runs most years (meaning his season went from Oct to June with no breaks).
There is a lot of talk about - and considerable disagreement about, load management - so I don't think it was out of bounds to ask him about it or for him to share his opinion. And I personally don't think he was wrong to say that players owe it to the ticket-buying public to play whenever they are healthy enough to do so.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 11:39:54 AMI hope that, going forward, every question to Jordan isn't, "When you played blah blah, so what do you think about today's NBA players blah blahing?" He knows a lot about basketball, he deals with modern athletes all the time through his brand, and he was a team owner (albeit a pretty bad one) until just recently. He should be able to talk about today's NBA without automatically making references to 1996. It's largely on Tirico or whoever is interviewing Jordan to focus on today and not 30 years ago, because all Jordan's gonna do is answer the questions he's asked.
Right. As I said, part of my problem is with NBC's coverage.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 11:39:54 AMThat said, he did play 80+ games most years, he did work his body every bit as hard as anybody who ever played (including today's great athletes), he had to play back-to-backs and 4 games in 6 days just as today's players do, and he had long postseason runs most years (meaning his season went from Oct to June with no breaks).
And maybe he could have been even better had he taken more time off. Maybe he wouldn't have needed to take an entire season off. Maybe other players would have been more able to compete against him had they taken more rest.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 11:39:54 AMThere is a lot of talk about - and considerable disagreement about, load management - so I don't think it was out of bounds to ask him about it or for him to share his opinion. And I personally don't think he was wrong to say that players owe it to the ticket-buying public to play whenever they are healthy enough to do so.
I think he is wrong. The players don't owe the fans that at all. The players owe it to them to be in the best shape possible for a title run.
Quote from: The Sultan on October 29, 2025, 11:44:37 AMRight. As I said, part of my problem is with NBC's coverage.
And maybe he could have been even better had he taken more time off. Maybe he wouldn't have needed to take an entire season off. Maybe other players would have been more able to compete against him had they taken more rest.
I think he is wrong. The players don't owe the fans that at all. The players owe it to them to be in the best shape possible for a title run.
Also, the NBA was rigged when Jordan was playing in his favor
Quote from: The Sultan on October 29, 2025, 11:44:37 AMRight. As I said, part of my problem is with NBC's coverage.
And maybe he could have been even better had he taken more time off. Maybe he wouldn't have needed to take an entire season off. Maybe other players would have been more able to compete against him had they taken more rest.
I think he is wrong. The players don't owe the fans that at all. The players owe it to them to be in the best shape possible for a title run.
OK. We agree about some stuff and disagree about other stuff. Thanks for the conversation.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 29, 2025, 12:02:45 PMAlso, the NBA was rigged when Jordan was playing in his favor
Well, duh.
Quote from: MU82 on October 29, 2025, 11:39:54 AMI hope that, going forward, every question to Jordan isn't, "When you played blah blah, so what do you think about today's NBA players blah blahing?" He knows a lot about basketball, he deals with modern athletes all the time through his brand, and he was a team owner (albeit a pretty bad one) until just recently. He should be able to talk about today's NBA without automatically making references to 1996. It's largely on Tirico or whoever is interviewing Jordan to focus on today and not 30 years ago, because all Jordan's gonna do is answer the questions he's asked.
He was a bad owner, but he has forgotten more about basketball than most players and analysts have ever known. And results aside, when he's not playing golf or gambling, he's stayed pretty close and connected to the NBA. He's likely got an absolute treasure trove of stuff that would make great TV, but he's got nothing to prove, feels like no need to specifically make stories or stuff compelling, so I totally agree that Tirico and the NBC crew need to do more with him.
I knew a higher up at Gatorade in my Pepsi days who had worked on the brand for a long time. He met with him a couple times in various meetings and events, MJ took a liking to him and dropped his guard. He said he talked to him about cigars and jazz cause "every motherunnatural carnal knowledgeer wants to ask him about the Bulls the minute they meet him". One day, at Gatorade event, he was 1 on 1 with him for like 20 min. They had had a drink or two, so he thought "unnatural carnal knowledge it" and asked him something about the NBA playoffs, given that was May. He said without further prompting, MJ rattled off thoughts and commentary that he said was so beyond casual observation/fan perspective, but yet wasn't confusing or overly difficult to process. He said he walked away kind of giddy but not surprised.
So TL/DR, I think he could be great in the right setting, but not really holding my breath as Ive not been overly impressed with the product so far.
I think regardless of your thoughts on MJ; any ex-player or analyst taking issue with load management is truly a reflection of 90%+ of NBA fans. It is the exact opposite of a 'hot take'. It is a like a politician saying he will put more money in your pocket and make your roads better. Who doesn't like that?
I could understand if people took issue with MJ playing it safe on the issue. We'd all like a little spice in the interview, but MJ played it down the middle on this one.
Is there a better "team's third best player" than Austin Reaves right now?
Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2025, 01:11:51 AMIs there a better "team's third best player" than Austin Reaves right now?
He's an really good offensive player. Very dangerous on or off the bounce. I stated that the Lakers got a steal with his contract, but was criticized of course by Scoopers. His defense I will say can be problematic against the top teams.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 29, 2025, 02:23:44 PMI think regardless of your thoughts on MJ; any ex-player or analyst taking issue with load management is truly a reflection of 90%+ of NBA fans. It is the exact opposite of a 'hot take'. It is a like a politician saying he will put more money in your pocket and make your roads better. Who doesn't like that?
I could understand if people took issue with MJ playing it safe on the issue. We'd all like a little spice in the interview, but MJ played it down the middle on this one.
Absolutely. Load management is one of those things that I actually totally get both sides. I fully support players taking care of themselves, their bodies, prolonging their careers (and maybe also benefiting themselves physically for the far life stage which is post-playing).
But at the same time, I get some of why fans get frustrated. Not the meathead "YOU'RE HERE TO ENTERTAIN ME. HOW DARE YOU REST" but I remember going to a Bulls game against the Warriors in 2013/14 ish cause Curry was starting to emerge and I loved watching him and Klay. He had picked up a ding the day before and didn't play. I was truly bummed. And that was a legit injury to a guy in his early 20s, not a superstar that is essentially taking a game off.
And hell, if I was a former player in the "non-load management era" and I have a body that is banged up with terrible knees that might be less so if I played today, I might subconsciously have some resentment that shows when talking about it. Especially if they are making the equivalent of one of my contracts early 2000s contracts in a single season with the ever ballooning TV money salary caps.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 08:20:13 AMHe's an really good offensive player. Very dangerous on or off the bounce. I stated that the Lakers got a steal with his contract, but was criticized of course by Scoopers. His defense I will say can be problematic against the top teams.
When did you state this and where is the criticism?
Quote from: The Sultan on October 30, 2025, 08:26:09 AMWhen did you state this and where is the criticism?
He did state it when he signed the deal but no one criticized him, just pointed out that he was an RFA and that limited what he could get, like Kuminga this off-season
Quote from: JWags85 on October 30, 2025, 08:23:44 AMAbsolutely. Load management is one of those things that I actually totally get both sides. I fully support players taking care of themselves, their bodies, prolonging their careers (and maybe also benefiting themselves physically for the far life stage which is post-playing).
But at the same time, I get some of why fans get frustrated. Not the meathead "YOU'RE HERE TO ENTERTAIN ME. HOW DARE YOU REST" but I remember going to a Bulls game against the Warriors in 2013/14 ish cause Curry was starting to emerge and I loved watching him and Klay. He had picked up a ding the day before and didn't play. I was truly bummed. And that was a legit injury to a guy in his early 20s, not a superstar that is essentially taking a game off.
And hell, if I was a former player in the "non-load management era" and I have a body that is banged up with terrible knees that might be less so if I played today, I might subconsciously have some resentment that shows when talking about it. Especially if they are making the equivalent of one of my contracts early 2000s contracts in a single season with the ever ballooning TV money salary caps.
I also see the logic behind load management. The fans and the league are not happy with the healthy scratches, but that is the game now and nobody is forced to buy a ticket or watch on TV. And as much as some people say that people pay to watch the players, it appears people also pay to watch their team.
The things with load management is tat guys are still getting hurt.
We lost Dame, Tatum and Haliburton in last year's playoffs alone.
I don't think load management has really solved anything.
(I also think those guys getting hurt is the effect of playing the same sport 12 months a year for most of your life)
Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2025, 01:11:51 AMIs there a better "team's third best player" than Austin Reaves right now?
Aaron Gordon in Denver. Its a small sample size, but he's averaging 21/6/2 while shooting 53% from 3. And thats with both of Denver's stars playing all 4 games, unlike Reaves who has been the main guy without Luka or Bron.
Do I think Gordon keeps shooting 50%+ from 3 on the year? Probably not. But he shot 44% on 3.5 3PA/G last year, so he clearly figured something out with his shot. Also crazy that he's only 30.
Also, if you want to get real aggressive, I would say what Edgecombe has shown in Philly as the 3rd option already is more impressive than Reaves.
Quote from: The Lens on October 30, 2025, 09:23:41 AMThe things with load management is tat guys are still getting hurt.
Now we are blaming body art?
Quote from: The Lens on October 30, 2025, 09:23:41 AMThe things with load management is tat guys are still getting hurt.
We lost Dame, Tatum and Haliburton in last year's playoffs alone.
I don't think load management has really solved anything.
(I also think those guys getting hurt is the effect of playing the same sport 12 months a year for most of your life)
I don't think load management is simply about not getting hurt. It's also about staying fresh for the post-season.
Better through 5 games in which he's been the #1 option for the Lakers in 3 of? No. But I think there will be plenty of guys who you can at least make a case for when we get to more than 6% of the way through the season.
Chet is an obvious one. Aaron Gordon is a good answer. Whoever you think is the third best player on the Heat between Powell/Bam/Herro (or even Jaquez so far), Garland could be once he's healthy, Jrue Holiday is showing he was completely undervalued by being the 5th option in Boston, KAT/Bridges, Franz Wagner or Bane, Amen Thompson, maybe Cooper Flagg by the end of the year.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 30, 2025, 11:09:21 AMBetter through 5 games in which he's been the #1 option for the Lakers in 3 of? No. But I think there will be plenty of guys who you can at least make a case for when we get to more than 6% of the way through the season.
Chet is an obvious one. Aaron Gordon is a good answer. Whoever you think is the third best player on the Heat between Powell/Bam/Herro (or even Jaquez so far), Garland could be once he's healthy, Jrue Holiday is showing he was completely undervalued by being the 5th option in Boston, KAT/Bridges, Franz Wagner or Bane, Amen Thompson, maybe Cooper Flagg by the end of the year.
Excuse me???? Pat Williams of the 4-0 Bulls? ;D
Quote from: wadesworld on October 30, 2025, 11:09:21 AMBetter through 5 games in which he's been the #1 option for the Lakers in 3 of? No. But I think there will be plenty of guys who you can at least make a case for when we get to more than 6% of the way through the season.
Chet is an obvious one. Aaron Gordon is a good answer. Whoever you think is the third best player on the Heat between Powell/Bam/Herro (or even Jaquez so far), Garland could be once he's healthy, Jrue Holiday is showing he was completely undervalued by being the 5th option in Boston, KAT/Bridges, Franz Wagner or Bane, Amen Thompson, maybe Cooper Flagg by the end of the year.
Totally reasonable. And yes, I did say "right now" in my comment.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 30, 2025, 11:26:06 AMExcuse me???? Pat Williams of the 4-0 Bulls? ;D
You mean MVPat
Quote from: JWags85 on October 30, 2025, 10:38:51 AMAaron Gordon in Denver. Its a small sample size, but he's averaging 21/6/2 while shooting 53% from 3. And thats with both of Denver's stars playing all 4 games, unlike Reaves who has been the main guy without Luka or Bron.
Do I think Gordon keeps shooting 50%+ from 3 on the year? Probably not. But he shot 44% on 3.5 3PA/G last year, so he clearly figured something out with his shot. Also crazy that he's only 30.
Also, if you want to get real aggressive, I would say what Edgecombe has shown in Philly as the 3rd option already is more impressive than Reaves.
Reasonable.
Reaves is averaging 34.2 points, 10.0 assists and 5.6 rebounds. He is shooting .482 overall, including .370 from 3. His last 3 games: 51 points; 41 points; 28 points, including the buzzer-beating winner. He is .897 from the line and leads the NBA in both FTM and FTA. He was doing superbly before Doncic hot hurt but has become the focus of opposing defenses with Doncic (and James) out.
Yes, a guy like Gordon has the "burden" of sharing the court with Jokic and Murray, but that also means that he has an elite playmaker getting him the ball in optimal scoring positions and that he is never the focus of the opposing defense. He's certainly is having a fine year, as is Edgecomb. Objectively, I'll still take Reaves' production at this early juncture.
It'll be fun to watch all this going forward.
Depends how you rank certain guys, but I'd take Chet, Gordon, Mobley, Fox/Harper, and Siakam/Nembhard over Reaves. Probably Draymond too.
Quote from: BM1090 on October 30, 2025, 03:12:03 PMDepends how you rank certain guys, but I'd take Chet, Gordon, Mobley, Fox/Harper, and Siakam/Nembhard over Reaves. Probably Draymond too.
Hot take, but Siakam > Haliburton, in my opinion.
No way in hell I would take Nembhard over Reaves, though. I'd take Nesmith and probably Mathurin over Nembhard, but neither of them over Reaves.
Quote from: GB Warrior on October 30, 2025, 12:52:57 PMYou mean MVPat
Right? That guy is sooo damn consistent,
when healthy, at 9 ppg, 4 rpg. Easily worth $4M a year more than Reaves.
Eastern Conference teams crossing their fingers for Embiid and Herro to find health this season (or at least I am and have been, as a Bucks fan).
Why is Giannis out??? WTF???
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 07:14:23 PMWhy is Giannis out??? WTF???
So Draymond Green can't injure in in the 5th game of the season.
Quote from: The Sultan on October 30, 2025, 08:26:09 AMWhen did you state this and where is the criticism?
I'm sure you can go back and find it in the past NBA threads. In fact, if memory serves, you were the one who scoffed at my comment about Reaves.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 30, 2025, 07:15:12 PMSo Draymond Green can't injure in in the 5th game of the season.
I'm lost. What are you talking about? Ty.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 07:18:17 PMI'm sure you can go back and find it in the past NBA threads. In fact, if memory serves, you were the one who scoffed at my comment about Reaves.
Did a search. Didn't find anything.
Quote from: The Sultan on October 30, 2025, 07:46:39 PMDid a search. Didn't find anything.
I'm not hallucinating. I definitely stated this soon after his contract was announced.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 07:51:55 PMI'm not hallucinating. I definitely stated this soon after his contract was announced.
I guess. As I said, did a search with your name and didn't see anything.
Quote from: The Sultan on October 30, 2025, 08:00:01 PMI guess. As I said, did a search with your name and didn't see anything.
It wasn't you. My apologies. But you can find it in the 22-23 NBA thread.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 08:05:39 PMIt wasn't you. My apologies. But you can find it in the 22-23 NBA thread.
And you'd also see that no one criticized you
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2025, 08:08:57 PMAnd you'd also see that no one criticized you
I have a memory that I waa harshly criticized. I believe the evidence has been deleted.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 08:11:19 PMI have a memory that I waa harshly criticized. I believe the evidence has been deleted.
Probably by Jewish space lasers
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 30, 2025, 08:15:40 PMProbably by Jewish space lasers
No reason to share your antisemitism.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 08:11:19 PMI have a memory that I waa harshly criticized. I believe the evidence has been deleted.
Please share the exact post where you think this was done so I can evaluate for myself. ty
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 30, 2025, 08:43:58 PMPlease share the exact post where you think this was done so I can evaluate for myself. ty
I could be wrong but I recall someone writing that I was crazy for stating the Reaves signing was highway robbery. I don't know 100% where this was discussed, but I I have an exceptional memory.
https://x.com/BucksRealm/status/1984062383321706656?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Hilarious.
Bobby goes for 10 first quarter points and Doc has played him 9 minutes through almost 3 quarters. And AJ Green has 3 shot attempts. Meanwhile Kuz is at 26 minutes.
Rollins may be the real deal?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 08:49:06 PMI could be wrong but I recall someone writing that I was crazy for stating the Reaves signing was highway robbery. I don't know 100% where this was discussed, but I I have an exceptional memory.
If you could be wrong you should back up your statements with receipts. Otherwise you're no better than satan's deception
This would be an impressive win for the Bucks without Giannis.
Rollins has some game. Dude can drain J's off the bounce and has solid blow by quicks.
Wow avoiding the issue much
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 30, 2025, 09:38:19 PMWow avoiding the issue much
My memory could be wrong. I'm not going to search posts. What I do know is I stated the Lakers got away with robbery.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 30, 2025, 09:44:32 PMMy memory could be wrong. I'm not going to search posts. What I do know is I stated the Lakers got away with robbery.
You shouldn't make such sweeping definitive statements without proof. Someone might sue you
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 30, 2025, 10:45:25 PMYou shouldn't make such sweeping definitive statements without proof. Someone might sue you
It was Jewish space lasers erasing the posts. Rocky and Topper's silence on the topic is disgraceful
::)
Does the Giannis trade finally come to fruition when Ryan Rollins demands a better second star on the team?
Quote from: JWags85 on October 30, 2025, 08:23:44 AMAbsolutely. Load management is one of those things that I actually totally get both sides. I fully support players taking care of themselves, their bodies, prolonging their careers (and maybe also benefiting themselves physically for the far life stage which is post-playing).
But at the same time, I get some of why fans get frustrated. Not the meathead "YOU'RE HERE TO ENTERTAIN ME. HOW DARE YOU REST" but I remember going to a Bulls game against the Warriors in 2013/14 ish cause Curry was starting to emerge and I loved watching him and Klay. He had picked up a ding the day before and didn't play. I was truly bummed. And that was a legit injury to a guy in his early 20s, not a superstar that is essentially taking a game off.
And hell, if I was a former player in the "non-load management era" and I have a body that is banged up with terrible knees that might be less so if I played today, I might subconsciously have some resentment that shows when talking about it. Especially if they are making the equivalent of one of my contracts early 2000s contracts in a single season with the ever ballooning TV money salary caps.
Here's my thing with load management. No one questions that in baseball, starting pitchers have to take over 80% of the season off. They have to do it or their arms will fall off. I think the same is true for basketball players. Expecting them to play 82 games and still be healthy and fresh enough to handle a playoff run that can be up to 30 games is just not logical. Players need to be able to rest in the season. I think the bigger issue with fans is that it is a change rather than it not being necessary.
Quote from: cheebs09 on October 31, 2025, 01:10:13 PMDoes the Giannis trade finally come to fruition when Ryan Rollins demands a better second star on the team?
I'm sure Shams is already working on his report about how Rollins wants to go to L.A. to pair with their franchise player Austin Reaves.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 31, 2025, 01:10:26 PMHere's my thing with load management. No one questions that in baseball, starting pitchers have to take over 80% of the season off. They have to do it or their arms will fall off. I think the same is true for basketball players. Expecting them to play 82 games and still be healthy and fresh enough to handle a playoff run that can be up to 30 games is just not logical. Players need to be able to rest in the season. I think the bigger issue with fans is that it is a change rather than it not being necessary.
I also think the regular season mattered more to people in Jordan's era. With all the ring counting and only caring about the playoffs by both teams and players, it doesn't surprise me they want to protect their assets for the biggest time of year.
Yeah I mean I get it. My friend and his girlfriend are both big Wolves/NBA fans. They spent a ton of money for court side seats and went to a game for their anniversary Wednesday. Lebron, Luka, and Ant all sat out. It can be frustrating.
I'm pro load management it just leads to some crapty situations.
Quote from: BM1090 on October 31, 2025, 02:54:10 PMYeah I mean I get it. My friend and his girlfriend are both big Wolves/NBA fans. They spent a ton of money for court side seats and went to a game for their anniversary Wednesday. Lebron, Luka, and Ant all sat out. It can be frustrating.
I'm pro load management it just leads to some crapty situations.
My previous story about going to a Bulls game to see Steph and the Warriors where he was a scratch with an injury, I went with a good friend of mine. Few years later, bout 7-8 years ago, it was his 2nd anniversary with his wife. He was/is a HUGE Calvin Harris fan, their "song" and first dance was "Feel So Close", and at the time, Calvin had a residency at Omnia, the nightclub in Caesars in Vegas. I was going to be there for a conference and his best man lived in LA, so they decided to go see Calvin at his residency to celebrate.
They got a nice suite at Caesars, I extended my trip a few days after the concert, and his buddy popped over from LA. But way more expensive than the suite or the nice romantic dinner they had Friday night was the fact that they splurged big for a center table for bottle service for night/Calvin residency set. They let us kick in a few hundred bucks but insisted on covering the majority of the substantial bill. It was gonna be a memorable night so they were happy to do it.
Well, Calvin, like most major LA-based DJs playing residencies in Vegas, would fly in late Friday night on a plane provided by the hotel/casino and go straight from the airport to the club for their set. It so happens that this night, on the way to the airport in LA, his driver got in a substantial accident and he ended up spending the night in the hospital. And since this happened so late and wasn't a proper cancellation, there was no replacement lined up, so instead that night was soundtracked by the random salaried in-house DJ who plays early in the night and the late in the night when the headliner finishes. And there certainly was no refunds going to be given for the inflated table/drink prices set up for one of their marquee nights. I think they may have comped a round of lemon drop shots as an apology. So they paid insane Calvin Harris prices for a DJ that probably played a bar mitzvah in Summerlin the next day.
Needless to say they haven't splurged on any pricy sports/event tickets since, but if they got Lakers-Bulls tickets, I'd expect Luka, Bron, and Reaves to all sit
Quote from: JWags85 on October 31, 2025, 06:36:01 PMMy previous story about going to a Bulls game to see Steph and the Warriors where he was a scratch with an injury, I went with a good friend of mine. Few years later, bout 7-8 years ago, it was his 2nd anniversary with his wife. He was/is a HUGE Calvin Harris fan, their "song" and first dance was "Feel So Close", and at the time, Calvin had a residency at Omnia, the nightclub in Caesars in Vegas. I was going to be there for a conference and his best man lived in LA, so they decided to go see Calvin at his residency to celebrate.
They got a nice suite at Caesars, I extended my trip a few days after the concert, and his buddy popped over from LA. But way more expensive than the suite or the nice romantic dinner they had Friday night was the fact that they splurged big for a center table for bottle service for night/Calvin residency set. They let us kick in a few hundred bucks but insisted on covering the majority of the substantial bill. It was gonna be a memorable night so they were happy to do it.
Well, Calvin, like most major LA-based DJs playing residencies in Vegas, would fly in late Friday night on a plane provided by the hotel/casino and go straight from the airport to the club for their set. It so happens that this night, on the way to the airport in LA, his driver got in a substantial accident and he ended up spending the night in the hospital. And since this happened so late and wasn't a proper cancellation, there was no replacement lined up, so instead that night was soundtracked by the random salaried in-house DJ who plays early in the night and the late in the night when the headliner finishes. And there certainly was no refunds going to be given for the inflated table/drink prices set up for one of their marquee nights. I think they may have comped a round of lemon drop shots as an apology. So they paid insane Calvin Harris prices for a DJ that probably played a bar mitzvah in Summerlin the next day.
Needless to say they haven't splurged on any pricy sports/event tickets since, but if they got Lakers-Bulls tickets, I'd expect Luka, Bron, and Reaves to all sit
My now wife got me tickets to a Bucks vs. Cavs game a few years ago for my birthday. Leading up to it I think Khris and Bobby were already hurt so we knew they'd be out. The day of the game they ruled Giannis out. But she knew Jrue was my favorite athlete maybe ever so while it was a bummer, it wasn't that big of a deal...until we showed up and Grayson, Brook, and Jrue were all out too. We saw the Bucks start Mamu, Jevonte Smart, George Hill, DeMarcus Cousins, and Jordan Nwora and she was not happy.
The next year she got me Marquette at Creighton tickets for my birthday. We were pretty sure Kolek would be out with the injury he got against Providence. Then walking to the game we found out Oso wasn't playing.
Bummer.
Not why the Bucks are losing at all (that would be on the defense), but with all these betting scandals going on, someone should look into this reffing tonight. GTJ gets fouled, and they call the foul, attempting a layup and because of the contact kind of flails and his arm hits DeRozan's neck, and they give him an after the whistle technical foul? Then Westbrook wraps his arm around Giannis's neck, keeping his arm around Giannis's neck from the contact near the three point line to the basket stanchion, and it's a common foul? Cole Anthony gets hacked with no call, reacts by pulling at his hair, play goes to the other side of the floor, the Kings score, and THEN they call the technical foul? Some weird stuff going on...
I've never
Quote from: wadesworld on November 01, 2025, 06:07:21 PMNot why the Bucks are losing at all (that would be on the defense), but with all these betting scandals going on, someone should look into this reffing tonight. GTJ gets fouled, and they call the foul, attempting a layup and because of the contact kind of flails and his arm hits DeRozan's neck, and they give him an after the whistle technical foul? Then Westbrook wraps his arm around Giannis's neck, keeping his arm around Giannis's neck from the contact near the three point line to the basket stanchion, and it's a common foul? Cole Anthony gets hacked with no call, reacts by pulling at his hair, play goes to the other side of the floor, the Kings score, and THEN they call the technical foul? Some weird stuff going on...
There have never been officials more in the bag
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 01, 2025, 06:24:01 PMI've never
There have never been officials more in the bag
Yeah I personally think NBA refs are really good. But my lord I take it back. The refs are why the Bucks lost that game. And Doc of course challenging what is literally a point of emphasis down 6 with 6 minutes left, leaving no challenges left on a clearly clean strip down 2 with 2 minutes left.
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 01, 2025, 06:24:01 PMI've never
There have never been officials more in the bag
Was at the game. It was... interesting to say the least. It was also the first game where officials had headset communication to New Jersey. Bucks defense sucked though and I won't suggest anyone was in the bag when it can be attributed to incompetence. The clear goaltend, Westbrook's common foul (that was reviewed), 4-0 technical fouls (with GTJ's being the most bizarre T I think I've seen), and don't forget the last play. Not sure how this is missed other than being distracted by your headset or simply not watching the game.
https://x.com/PensareBBall/status/1984769989149118908?t=wzFTXVxV2LRkXmtMiuIIXw&s=19
Nm
Kon with 24, 6 and 5 as Hornets beat Utah even with LaMelo out.
Raise a banner!!
Quote from: MU82 on November 02, 2025, 10:31:31 PMKon with 24, 6 and 5 as Hornets beat Utah even with LaMelo out.
Raise a banner!!
While Kon won't hunt his shot enough to be more of a scorer, he will do more to help a team win than Tyler Herro does in his career.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 02, 2025, 10:37:35 PMWhile Kon won't hunt his shot enough to be more of a scorer, he will do more to help a team win than Tyler Herro does in his career.
We're crowning him as better than the guy who was averaging the same/slightly better scoring numbers of the bench on a playoff team from the jump his rookie year, who then became the 6th man of the year on a team that was the 1 seed and made the conference finals..because he had a good game after he went 3/15 (2/12) over 2 games? Alright.
I'll go out on a limb and say Herro played in more playoff games, as a key cog on the Heat, by the time he was 22 (through 3 seasons) than Kon will play in by his late 20s.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 03, 2025, 08:16:09 AMWe're crowning him as better than the guy who was averaging the same/slightly better scoring numbers of the bench on a playoff team from the jump his rookie year, who then became the 6th man of the year on a team that was the 1 seed and made the conference finals..because he had a good game after he went 3/15 (2/12) over 2 games? Alright.
I'll go out on a limb and say Herro played in more playoff games, as a key cog on the Heat, by the time he was 22 (through 3 seasons) than Kon will play in by his late 20s.
I'm "crowning" him (if making a prediction about a rookie's future is "crowning" a guy) because I think he'll be a much more efficient player and I don't think Kon's team will start playing better when he gets hurt, like the Heat do when Herro is out. I'd bet the Heat will start to look like the average team people thought they would be when Herro returns to the court this season.
Might want to take a look at Herro's Playoff performances. They aren't exactly pretty. Outside of a 1 game sample size in 2022-2023 in which he played 19 minutes and took 9 shots, he's never shot above 43% from the field and only once shot above 35% from 3. He's an empty calory guy who got to play alongside one of the best Playoff performers of this generation.
I'm not looking at one game from Kon. I'm looking at what he's been from high school to his one year at Duke to what he's been through an admittedly tiny sample size in the NBA. Even with his 2 bad games, he's averaging 14 points, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists on 46% from the field and 43% from 3 and predicting that he'll be a very good NBA player. Will he get to play alongside a Jimmy Butler level player in his first 3 years in the League like Tyler Herro did? Probably not.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 03, 2025, 09:07:57 AMI'm "crowning" him (if making a prediction about a rookie's future is "crowning" a guy) because I think he'll be a much more efficient player and I don't think Kon's team will start playing better when he gets hurt, like the Heat do when Herro is out. I'd bet the Heat will start to look like the average team people thought they would be when Herro returns to the court this season.
Might want to take a look at Herro's Playoff performances. They aren't exactly pretty. Outside of a 1 game sample size in 2022-2023 in which he played 19 minutes and took 9 shots, he's never shot above 43% from the field and only once shot above 35% from 3. He's an empty calory guy who got to play alongside one of the best Playoff performers of this generation.
I'm not looking at one game from Kon. I'm looking at what he's been from high school to his one year at Duke to what he's been through an admittedly tiny sample size in the NBA. Even with his 2 bad games, he's averaging 14 points, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists on 46% from the field and 43% from 3 and predicting that he'll be a very good NBA player. Will he get to play alongside a Jimmy Butler level player in his first 4 years 3 years in the League like Tyler Herro did? Probably not.
Obviously crowning was hyperbole, but I'm not sure how Herro averaging what he does on a playoff level team is anymore empty calories than averaging similar on a team that averages 120+ a game but doesn't win many games. Points aside, Herro put up the same kind of R/A/S/B that Kon does.
I get it, you've always been very high Kon and always been a loud and proud Herro hater, just seems silly to choose take shots at a successful and accomplished NBA vet (who most NBA writers have as a top 50 guy in the league) in the support of a rookie who has had as many very bad NBA games as very good games.
Ja Morant has a few issues. It's very disappointing because he's an incredible talent.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 03, 2025, 09:23:54 AMObviously crowning was hyperbole, but I'm not sure how Herro averaging what he does on a playoff level team is anymore empty calories than averaging similar on a team that averages 120+ a game but doesn't win many games. Points aside, Herro put up the same kind of R/A/S/B that Kon does.
I get it, you've always been very high Kon and always been a loud and proud Herro hater, just seems silly to choose take shots at a successful and accomplished NBA vet (who most NBA writers have as a top 50 guy in the league) in the support of a rookie who has had as many very bad NBA games as very good games.
It wasn't really a shot at Herro. I just believe in Kon, and so far in his basketball playing career he hasn't given me any reason to not believe in him.
But I can make it a "shot" at Herro, I guess. The Heat have a 56% winning percentage with Tyler Herro in the lineup in his career and a 54% winning percentage with Tyler Herro unavailable in his career. So they're slightly better with him than without him. For a guy who has averaged about 22 points, 5 rebounds, and 4.5 assists per game from his third season on, you'd think he'd impact winning games more than that slight difference. He had a good Playoff run his rookie season where they made the Finals in the bubble, they made the Conference Finals with him playing poorly off the bench in 2022, and then they went on a run to the Finals when he got injured in game 1 of round 1 and didn't play after that. We'll see what the Heat can do post Jimmy being a Playoff monster.
Second quarter free throws 17 for the Pacers, 1 for the Bucks.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 02, 2025, 10:37:35 PMWhile Kon won't hunt his shot enough to be more of a scorer, he will do more to help a team win than Tyler Herro does in his career.
My comp for Kon was Ernie Grunfeld. I thought his lack of athleticism would limit his career.
But he may be better than I thought he was gonna be.
Quote from: Jockey on November 04, 2025, 02:42:58 AMMy comp for Kon was Ernie Grunfeld. I thought his lack of athleticism would limit his career.
But he may be better than I thought he was gonna be.
Never saw Grunfeld play. It's far from a perfect comparison and I don't think Kon will ever be the second best player on a title winning team, but I see Kon as somewhat similar to Khris Middleton. Not overly athletic, very smooth, shoots it well, can make plays for others but you don't want him to be your main ball handler, defense is fine but not a lockdown guy, fairly similar size and body types.
Good lord Kuzma stinks
Quote from: JWags85 on November 04, 2025, 07:12:56 PMGood lord Kuzma stinks
I was getting worried I'd need to start cheering for him after 2 good games in a row
Doc went NINE straight game minutes with either 5 bench players or 4 bench players plus one of Gary Trent or AJ Green. It's truly unbelievable this guy continues to get NBA coaching jobs.
If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd be all in on the NBA giving Haslem some incentives to get in on the Bucks ownership group and bringing Doc into the Bucks to get Giannis so sick of losing he asks out.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 04, 2025, 07:42:06 PMDoc went NINE straight game minutes with either 5 bench players or 4 bench players plus one of Gary Trent or AJ Green. It's truly unbelievable this guy continues to get NBA coaching jobs.
If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd be all in on the NBA giving Haslem some incentives to get in on the Bucks ownership group and bringing Doc into the Bucks to get Giannis so sick of losing he asks out.
He's been doing hockey style lineups. Presumably because it's easier and he can fit in mid-game naps
Maxey is torching the Bulls.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 04, 2025, 08:00:25 PMMaxey is torching the Bulls.
Giddey wrecked the Sixers.
Why would the refs make the bucks lose by 28 tonight
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 04, 2025, 07:14:22 PMI was getting worried I'd need to start cheering for him after 2 good games in a row
After he made the running dunk with like 3:30 left in the first. He had a stretch where he threw it away on a terrible kick out attempt from a drive, missed 1 of 2 FTs, passed up an attempt at the rim against a smaller player to chuck a pass to the perimeter so bad it almost took (I think Prince) out of bounds, then bricked a running layup, and bricked a 3 to end the quarter. It was breathakingly, college walk-on seeing their first action of the season level bad.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 04, 2025, 07:42:06 PMDoc went NINE straight game minutes with either 5 bench players or 4 bench players plus one of Gary Trent or AJ Green. It's truly unbelievable this guy continues to get NBA coaching jobs.
Beyond the Marquette connection, I like Doc as a person and an NBA personality. But I can't think of another example in American professional sports in the last few decades where one coach has gotten an entire reputation and career out of 1 solitary championship. He was decent in Orlando, got the Boston job off the back of the Pitino/O'Brien years when the franchise was kind of a mess, then managed to miss the playoffs back to back with Paul Pierce, young Al Jefferson, and Wally Szczerbiak (when he was still an absolute bucket) before the huge Garnett/Ray Allen trade. Obviously the championship was huge, but after that next Finals loss 2 seasons later, you saw what Doc was unfortunately. Gonna take a good roster, get you 1st or 2nd in your division, then get thoroughly outcoached in the playoffs.
The fact that he never even made a Western Conference finals in LA should have ushered in the Doc Rivers/ESPN phase of his career, but here we are 6/7 years later with him in his 6th straight season coaching an MVP level player to an underachieving season.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 03, 2025, 09:07:57 AMI'm "crowning" him (if making a prediction about a rookie's future is "crowning" a guy) because I think he'll be a much more efficient player and I don't think Kon's team will start playing better when he gets hurt, like the Heat do when Herro is out. I'd bet the Heat will start to look like the average team people thought they would be when Herro returns to the court this season.
Might want to take a look at Herro's Playoff performances. They aren't exactly pretty. Outside of a 1 game sample size in 2022-2023 in which he played 19 minutes and took 9 shots, he's never shot above 43% from the field and only once shot above 35% from 3. He's an empty calory guy who got to play alongside one of the best Playoff performers of this generation.
I'm not looking at one game from Kon. I'm looking at what he's been from high school to his one year at Duke to what he's been through an admittedly tiny sample size in the NBA. Even with his 2 bad games, he's averaging 14 points, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists on 46% from the field and 43% from 3 and predicting that he'll be a very good NBA player. Will he get to play alongside a Jimmy Butler level player in his first 3 years in the League like Tyler Herro did? Probably not.
The Athletic took a look at what the top draft picks have done so far. Here's what they said about Kon:
Kon Knueppel, Hornets: The wing from Duke is off to a great start. He's playing 30 minutes a night and shooting the lights out from deep (41 percent). Knueppel looks pretty comfortable, but I'd like to see more playmaking at some point.
I wish the bucks had a better coach. I'm not a fan of Doc and don't think the bucks can really win with him. But I think he's doing a pretty good job with this roster. It's early and I don't trust him to adjust but not a ton of complaints after 8 games.
I don't read every thread; sorry if this is posted elsewhere. My kid sent me the link.
https://x.com/Giannis_An34/status/1986184901910003920?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Despite acquiring Jonas Valanciunas to back him up, the Nuggets still suffer mightily whenever Nikola Jokic isn't on the court.
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd15k2d11r6t6rl.cloudfront.net%2Fpublic%2Fusers%2FIntegrators%2F669d5713-9b6a-46bb-bd7e-c542cff6dd6a%2F1d75fd3a730a463c8648bd84293b832a%2FMassiveDropOffNov6.jpg&t=1762534298&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c9e-b90da7017e00&sig=JcNyYQ5wjuudV88jyGv0_w--~D)
I bet there's more than zero old men in Mequon looking at buzalis and saying "now that's the type of European I'd prefer"
Weird that the Bucks can play just okay and still win games when they're not playing EITHER the starters OR the bench the entire game. Did Doc figure out that you can play a mix of bench guys and starters at the same time? Big, if so.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on October 26, 2025, 12:12:33 AMAre the Bulls elite
After 6 games they were declared the NBA champs.
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 08, 2025, 12:09:31 PMAfter 6 games they were declared the NBA champs.
The NBA Cup proves the true elite teams.
Quote from: PointWarrior on November 08, 2025, 12:09:31 PMAfter 6 games they were declared the NBA champs.
The Bulls are who we thought they were!
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2025, 12:57:03 PMBy who?
People who think it's bad to get excited about a fun young core of a team. Lots of those around here
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 08, 2025, 03:27:28 PMPeople who think it's bad to get excited about a fun young core of a team. Lots of those around here
Right?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2025, 03:34:02 PMRight?
Well now they are 6-2 after losing away games to two of the better teams in the east. It's Joever
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 08, 2025, 03:52:07 PMWell now they are 6-2 after losing away games to two of the better teams in the east. It's Joever
No shame in losing to the champs
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 08, 2025, 06:25:56 PMNo shame in losing to the champs
We haven't played UConn yet
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 08, 2025, 06:34:18 PMCould UConn beat the Wizards
Dentists still refer to them as the bullets due to out of control crime
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 08, 2025, 09:02:26 PMDentists still refer to them as the bullets due to out of control crime
And not allowing snowflakes to ruin everything good in this country.
The Athletic polled dozens of writers, podcasters and editors to list the top 25 players of the last 25 years.
The top 10:
1. LeBron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Nicola Jokic
6. Kevin Durant
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dwyane Wade
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6779342/2025/11/10/nba-top-25-21st-century-ranking/?
Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 10:12:53 AMThe Athletic polled dozens of writers, podcasters and editors to list the top 25 players of the last 25 years.
The top 10:
1. LeBron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Nicola Jokic
6. Kevin Durant
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dwyane Wade
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6779342/2025/11/10/nba-top-25-21st-century-ranking/?
Looks fair to me. I think Joker will move up. I'd guess Zach LaVine is #11. ;)
Quote from: MU82 on November 10, 2025, 10:12:53 AMThe Athletic polled dozens of writers, podcasters and editors to list the top 25 players of the last 25 years.
The top 10:
1. LeBron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. Tim Duncan
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Nicola Jokic
6. Kevin Durant
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Dwyane Wade
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6779342/2025/11/10/nba-top-25-21st-century-ranking/?
Longevity absolutely comes into play, but I'd argue Jokic's peak easily clears Duncan's. I'm not sure there is anything Duncan did that Jokic does just as well if not do better, other than blocking shots.
MVP era Jokic has a higher FG% than MVP era Duncan by close to 10% at times, whilst shooting more 3s by the All Star break than Timmy D did in a 20 year career. Better FT shooter too. Rebounding numbers are pretty level. Jokic is a FAR better and prolific passer and can initiate offense from both inside and outside the arc. And what he gives up to Duncan in blocks, he makes up for by being more disruptive in passing lanes.
I cant even process the terror that would be Jokic on those Spurs teams with 2-3 other HOFs and Pop running the show.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 10, 2025, 11:57:08 AMLongevity absolutely comes into play, but I'd argue Jokic's peak easily clears Duncan's. I'm not sure there is anything Duncan did that Jokic does just as well if not do better, other than blocking shots.
MVP era Jokic has a higher FG% than MVP era Duncan by close to 10% at times, whilst shooting more 3s by the All Star break than Timmy D did in a 20 year career. Better FT shooter too. Rebounding numbers are pretty level. Jokic is a FAR better and prolific passer and can initiate offense from both inside and outside the arc. And what he gives up to Duncan in blocks, he makes up for by being more disruptive in passing lanes.
I cant even process the terror that would be Jokic on those Spurs teams with 2-3 other HOFs and Pop running the show.
I was at the game Saturday night and Joker could/should have a triple double in
the first quarter. He is not an athletic freak, but he is a basketball freak of nature.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 10, 2025, 11:57:08 AMLongevity absolutely comes into play, but I'd argue Jokic's peak easily clears Duncan's. I'm not sure there is anything Duncan did that Jokic does just as well if not do better, other than blocking shots.
MVP era Jokic has a higher FG% than MVP era Duncan by close to 10% at times, whilst shooting more 3s by the All Star break than Timmy D did in a 20 year career. Better FT shooter too. Rebounding numbers are pretty level. Jokic is a FAR better and prolific passer and can initiate offense from both inside and outside the arc. And what he gives up to Duncan in blocks, he makes up for by being more disruptive in passing lanes.
I cant even process the terror that would be Jokic on those Spurs teams with 2-3 other HOFs and Pop running the show.
Oh come on. Jokic is awesome, but you're selling Duncan WAY short, especially on the defensive end. Duncan was NBA All Defense 15 times and was top 5 in DPOY voting 6 times, with a bunch of other top 10 finishes. His Defensive Rating for his career was 96, which is absolutely insane. He never once had a Defensive Rating of over 101 for a season in his career. Jokic's career Defensive Rating is 108 and he's had 1 season (not including 9 games this year where he's at 103) below a 105 Defensive Rating for a season (and that was his first year in the NBA).
Quote from: wadesworld on November 10, 2025, 12:08:09 PMOh come on. Jokic is awesome, but you're selling Duncan WAY short, especially on the defensive end. Duncan was NBA All Defense 15 times and was top 5 in DPOY voting 6 times, with a bunch of other top 10 finishes. His Defensive Rating for his career was 96, which is absolutely insane. He never once had a Defensive Rating of over 101 in his career. Jokic's career Defensive Rating is 108 and he's had 1 season (not including 9 games this year where h's at 103) below a 105 Defensive Rating for a season.
As a LeBron fan told me once, "defense is only like 25% of the game".
RIP Lenny Wilkens.
Duncan was absolutely insane. Any slander of him is his lack of flashiness.
Kobe above Shaq is dumb as hell.
My hot-ish take, Jokic's peak significantly better than Kobe.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 10, 2025, 01:51:57 PMKobe above Shaq is dumb as hell.
It's defensable when you look at it being over the past 25 years, which cuts out Shaq's dominance from early in his career.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 10, 2025, 11:57:08 AMLongevity absolutely comes into play, but I'd argue Jokic's peak easily clears Duncan's. I'm not sure there is anything Duncan did that Jokic does just as well if not do better, other than blocking shots.
MVP era Jokic has a higher FG% than MVP era Duncan by close to 10% at times, whilst shooting more 3s by the All Star break than Timmy D did in a 20 year career. Better FT shooter too. Rebounding numbers are pretty level. Jokic is a FAR better and prolific passer and can initiate offense from both inside and outside the arc. And what he gives up to Duncan in blocks, he makes up for by being more disruptive in passing lanes.
I cant even process the terror that would be Jokic on those Spurs teams with 2-3 other HOFs and Pop running the show.
Duncan wasn't just a good defensive big, he was elite, arguably one of the best ever.
Voters in these kinds of things also tend to be influenced by team performance, and Duncan out-championshiped Jokic 5-to-1.
I'm a big Jokic fan, so I get what you're saying. But I don't think it's all that difficult to justify Duncan being ranked higher. (As if it even matters.)
Quote from: wadesworld on November 10, 2025, 12:08:09 PMOh come on. Jokic is awesome, but you're selling Duncan WAY short, especially on the defensive end. Duncan was NBA All Defense 15 times and was top 5 in DPOY voting 6 times, with a bunch of other top 10 finishes. His Defensive Rating for his career was 96, which is absolutely insane. He never once had a Defensive Rating of over 101 in his career. Jokic's career Defensive Rating is 108 and he's had 1 season (not including 9 games this year where h's at 103) below a 105 Defensive Rating for a season.
Defensively unstated sure, but I will caveat, Duncan had 1 season (out of those 15) where he didn't play with another All Defense player. First was Robinson, then was Bruce Bowen. And the Spurs were consistently a top 3 defensive team in the league in totality. Jokic has never played with anyone of that caliber defensively, much less a team (funny enough until the Nuggets are the best defensive rating in the league so far).
Not to mention, it's a totally different sort of league. The Spurs had TEAM Defensive Ratings under 100 almost every year, as a TEAM. The last few DPOY have had ratings over 105 as individuals.
Again, it's not a slight to Duncan, and certainly Jokic is nowhere near the defender Duncan was, but there is some NBA scoring inflation that makes it a bit more stark.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 10, 2025, 01:51:57 PMDuncan was absolutely insane. Any slander of him is his lack of flashiness.
I'm not even speaking to flashiness or style of play or the "eye test". Duncan was steady, consistent, reliable, etc... people often talk about how automatic he was. But Jokic DESTROYS him with percentages and offensive efficiency. Hes shot 64% from inside the arc the last 3 years playing less back to the basket than Duncan who was at 51% through his MVP years.
It's not slander, more just how eye popping Jokic is. I was even taken aback looking at the head to head numbers.
Like I said, I don't think Duncan should be any lower cause his longevity and accolades are immense, but Jokic should cruise past him if he continues this for another 5 or so years without getting hurt or deciding he'd rather go back to Serbia and play with his horses all year instead of just the offseason.
It's a hot take, but I think if Jokic played on those Spurs teams, he wouldn't win DPOY, but he'd have a much lower D Rating. But I don't think Duncan on these Nuggets teams in place of Jokic puts up a sub 100 DRating nor do his offensive stats spike all that much.
But then again, I think Jokic is already top 10 all time and only the aforementioned broken leg or equine distractions stop him from being top 5 (Jordan, LBJ, Kareem, Wilt, and Jokic in whichever order you please)
Yeah my argument was Duncan appropriately rated but Jokic above Kobe.
And Shaq above Kobe
You don't see a guy go 14-45 from the field very often. Cunningham is a great player though.
Wemby is seriously ridiculous. It's scary where he'll be when he reaches his prime.
Mob boss Adam Silver completes his scheme. Gets his patsy Nico to move Luka to the Lakers to secure a superstar on a marquee franchise now that Lebron is about done. Gifts the #1 pick to Dallas to halfheartedly smooth it over and make the peasants less restless and angry. Then the patsy gets whacked months later to close the loop. Game of Thrones couldn't have done it better.
It's absolutely stunning that LaMelo Ball is hurt again.
Of course, he plays about as good defense on the bench in street clothes as he does when he's in the game.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 11, 2025, 10:36:06 AMMob boss Adam Silver completes his scheme. Gets his patsy Nico to move Luka to the Lakers to secure a superstar on a marquee franchise now that Lebron is about done. Gifts the #1 pick to Dallas to halfheartedly smooth it over and make the peasants less restless and angry. Then the patsy gets whacked months later to close the loop. Game of Thrones couldn't have done it better.
That "trade" brought back memories of the Gasol trade from Memphis to LA. Neither passed the smell test. Trading Luka is not the issue, the return was comical and bizarre.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 11, 2025, 10:36:06 AMMob boss Adam Silver completes his scheme. Gets his patsy Nico to move Luka to the Lakers to secure a superstar on a marquee franchise now that Lebron is about done. Gifts the #1 pick to Dallas to halfheartedly smooth it over and make the peasants less restless and angry. Then the patsy gets whacked months later to close the loop. Game of Thrones couldn't have done it better.
The NBA conspiracy theorist in me says the NBA would not have let the Bucks win their championship in a normal year. There was a payoff to the NY owners and to capitalize on Giannis internationally, but not to the point of having the bucks win in a traditional playoff year.
With that said, the Bucks did earn it and it was awesome, and the Bucks have not put themselves in position to be championship competitive since.
yep
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 11, 2025, 11:36:11 AMThe NBA conspiracy theorist in me says the NBA would not have let the Bucks win their championship in a normal year. There was a payoff to the NY owners and to capitalize on Giannis internationally, but not to the point of having the bucks win in a traditional playoff year.
With that said, the Bucks did earn it and it was awesome, and the Bucks have not put themselves in position to be championship competitive since.
Outside of some crowd limits, there wasn't much "non-traditional" about the 2021 playoffs.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 11, 2025, 11:36:11 AMWith that said, the Bucks did earn it and it was awesome, and the Bucks have not put themselves in position to be championship competitive since.
They went 7 with the Celtics in the second round the year after with Khris not playing a minute in the series. But after that, yeah. That Khris injury really threw everything off for the Bucks.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 11, 2025, 11:36:11 AMThe NBA conspiracy theorist in me says the NBA would not have let the Bucks win their championship in a normal year. There was a payoff to the NY owners and to capitalize on Giannis internationally, but not to the point of having the bucks win in a traditional playoff year.
With that said, the Bucks did earn it and it was awesome, and the Bucks have not put themselves in position to be championship competitive since.
my NBA "conspiracy" thought is they want certain teams and markets to win, but not to lose, but sometimes that just isn't going to happen. The Bucks were just that good in 2020-21.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 11, 2025, 12:12:50 PMThey went 7 with the Celtics in the second round the year after with Khris not playing a minute in the series. But after that, yeah. That Khris injury really threw everything off for the Bucks.
Yeah they had a real chance to repeat. Shame they weren't healthy.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 11, 2025, 12:22:12 PMmy NBA "conspiracy" thought is they want/preferr certain teams and markets to win, but won't go otu of their way for a certain market to lose; sometimes that just isn't going to happen. Do you think the NBA really wanted OKC v. Indiana last year? There was just no stopping either team in the playoffs. The Bucks were just that good in 2020-21.
Quote from: Badgerhater on November 11, 2025, 11:36:11 AMThe NBA conspiracy theorist in me says the NBA would not have let the Bucks win their championship in a normal year. There was a payoff to the NY owners and to capitalize on Giannis internationally, but not to the point of having the bucks win in a traditional playoff year.
With that said, the Bucks did earn it and it was awesome, and the Bucks have not put themselves in position to be championship competitive since.
Denver and OKC winning it 2 of the last 3 years are no more favorable to that theory. And Indiana and Dallas making the Finals in that span doesn't support it either.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 11, 2025, 12:22:12 PMmy NBA "conspiracy" thought is they want certain teams and markets to win, but not to lose, but sometimes that just isn't going to happen. The Bucks were just that good in 2020-21.
Yea I'm kind of there too. But I don't think its that severe or manipulated, I think as long as multiple of the Lakers/Celtics/Knicks/Bulls/Heat are good and contending, they're fine. Heavier on the Lakers probably.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 11, 2025, 12:55:08 PMDenver and OKC winning it 2 of the last 3 years are no more favorable to that theory. And Indiana and Dallas making the Finals in that span doesn't support it either.
Yeah, you beat me to it. The conspiracy theorists crack me up.
Wemby going to San Antonio as well.
Quote from: The Sultan on November 11, 2025, 03:16:21 PMWemby going to San Antonio as well.
Well, you see, that was noted 2023 legendary coach lifetime achievement award conspiracy exception for Pop. Otherwise he'd clearly be a Knick
Nico Harrison ... buh-bye.
Quote from: MU82 on November 11, 2025, 05:51:40 PMNico Harrison ... buh-bye.
Tbe whole thing is super weird. Starting with the initial trade. If they felt they needed to dump Doncic for whatever reasons, that's fine I guess. The problem is the haul, or lack of, they got for him. Especially when you consider what other trades yielded. How they didn't ask for Reaves is inexplicable. All that said, I don't think Nico was solo in this moronic decision.
RIP Micheal Ray Richardson, dead at 70 after having been diagnosed with prostate cancer.
I was a teenager and a Knicks fan when they drafted him in 1978 and I loved watching him play. Supremely talented, he was a gifted passer and defensive player. I remember once he was talking about the best players in the world and he said, "It's Magic, Moncrief and me."
He became addicted to cocaine, which eventually led to a lifetime ban from the NBA. The banning didn't happen until a few years after the Knicks traded him to Golden State for the great Bernard King.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 10, 2025, 12:14:11 PMAs a LeBron fan told me once, "defense is only like 25% of the game".
And LeBron (over the last couple of years) has even played defense like 10% of the time.
Radio Doctors, mid 80's, The late Micheal Ray walks through the door with Nets teammates Buck Williams, Kelvin Ranset, Mickey Johnson, and finally Darryl Dawkins. In their Nets sweats. I did not approach them. And I knew who 4 out of 5 were without checking the names on the sweats. Two of my nerd worlds collided.
RIP. Nice redemption story.
SGA is absolutely toying with the Lakers. They have no one who can guard him at all. He may not be flashy, but he's on the path to ultra elite greatness.
During the Nuggets' 6-game winning streak, Jokic is averaging 35.8 pts, 12.0 reb, 11.0 ast, 73.9% FG, 55.6% 3PT.
Not bad.
Remember the good old days, when the Bulls were the last unbeaten team in the Eastern Conference?
They're now 6-5 after five straight losses, the last being to a Detroit team playing without Cade Cunningham, Jalen Duren, Ausar Thompson, Tobias Harris, Jaden Ivey and Isaiah Stewart.
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2025, 10:39:29 AMRemember the good old days, when the Bulls were the last unbeaten team in the Eastern Conference?
They're now 6-5 after five straight losses, the last being to a Detroit team playing without Cade Cunningham, Jalen Duren, Ausar Thompson, Tobias Harris, Jaden Ivey and Isaiah Stewart.
It's 4 straight losses. They were 5-0 and then lost to the knicks. Then beat the 76ers Mr sports Journalist!
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 13, 2025, 02:14:51 PMIt's 4 straight losses. They were 5-0 and then lost to the knicks. Then beat the 76ers Mr sports Journalist!
I sit corrected after my first error since 1983.
The Athletic ranks not Cooper Flagg but his Duke teammate, Kon Knueppel, as the best rookie so far.
Here's the gist:
The injury bug has again hit LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller, forcing the Charlotte Hornets to rely on rookies to salvage what had been an extremely competitive start to their season. In the five games Ball has missed, the Hornets are 2-3 with a couple of brutal losses. However, the play of the rookies has been a true bright spot, and Kon Knueppel is the main reason why.
Over this five-game stretch, Knueppel is averaging 21.8 points, 8.4 rebounds and four assists while posting a 61.1 true shooting percentage. When Knueppel leaves the court, the Hornets are blown out by about 30 points per 100 possessions. He's taken over as the primary offensive option and is playing remarkably well while doing so. Stepping into a larger role while maintaining the same level of high-end play is a situation Knueppel knows quite well from his time at Duke — he did the same thing in the ACC tournament when Cooper Flagg went down with a sprained ankle. He won the ACC tournament MVP award and led the Blue Devils to the title.
What's been most fun about Knueppel in Charlotte is how coach Charles Lee is using him within the offensive scheme. He's being weaponized as a movement shooter, with the ability to fly off different screening actions like curls or flares. He sets killer on-ball screens with contact thanks to his strength, but he also has the IQ to know when to slip them into open space. Knueppel's intelligence off the ball is also elite, as he relocates sharply into dangerous areas off teammates' drives and offensive rebounds and also finds buckets off cuts. Already, NBA teams have been forced to treat him like the elite shooter he is, opening up space for teammates like Collin Sexton to drive. He's also a sharp passer who makes quick reversals and finds open teammates with ease.
FWIW, Knueppel leads all rookies at 16.6 ppg, is third in rebounding at 6.4 rpg, and is seventh in assists at 2.8 apg.
Quote from: MU82 on November 14, 2025, 10:36:20 AMThe Athletic ranks not Cooper Flagg but his Duke teammate, Kon Knueppel, as the best rookie so far.
Here's the gist:
The injury bug has again hit LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller, forcing the Charlotte Hornets to rely on rookies to salvage what had been an extremely competitive start to their season. In the five games Ball has missed, the Hornets are 2-3 with a couple of brutal losses. However, the play of the rookies has been a true bright spot, and Kon Knueppel is the main reason why.
Over this five-game stretch, Knueppel is averaging 21.8 points, 8.4 rebounds and four assists while posting a 61.1 true shooting percentage. When Knueppel leaves the court, the Hornets are blown out by about 30 points per 100 possessions. He's taken over as the primary offensive option and is playing remarkably well while doing so. Stepping into a larger role while maintaining the same level of high-end play is a situation Knueppel knows quite well from his time at Duke — he did the same thing in the ACC tournament when Cooper Flagg went down with a sprained ankle. He won the ACC tournament MVP award and led the Blue Devils to the title.
What's been most fun about Knueppel in Charlotte is how coach Charles Lee is using him within the offensive scheme. He's being weaponized as a movement shooter, with the ability to fly off different screening actions like curls or flares. He sets killer on-ball screens with contact thanks to his strength, but he also has the IQ to know when to slip them into open space. Knueppel's intelligence off the ball is also elite, as he relocates sharply into dangerous areas off teammates' drives and offensive rebounds and also finds buckets off cuts. Already, NBA teams have been forced to treat him like the elite shooter he is, opening up space for teammates like Collin Sexton to drive. He's also a sharp passer who makes quick reversals and finds open teammates with ease.
FWIW, Knueppel leads all rookies at 16.6 ppg, is third in rebounding at 6.4 rpg, and is seventh in assists at 2.8 apg.
He's a stud.
And Horst has put together a roster that without Giannis got blitzed by a Lamelo-less, Miller-less Hornets team. Crazy.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 11, 2025, 10:36:06 AMMob boss Adam Silver completes his scheme. Gets his patsy Nico to move Luka to the Lakers to secure a superstar on a marquee franchise now that Lebron is about done. Gifts the #1 pick to Dallas to halfheartedly smooth it over and make the peasants less restless and angry. Then the patsy gets whacked months later to close the loop. Game of Thrones couldn't have done it better.
I'm sad Game of Zones is done. They would've had a field day with this
Quote from: MU82 on November 13, 2025, 03:24:19 PMI sit corrected after my first error since 1983.
What happened in 83?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 14, 2025, 12:16:23 PMHe's a stud.
And Horst has put together a roster that without Giannis got blitzed by a Lamelo-less, Miller-less Hornets team. Crazy.
Predictably, a roster built to maximize Giannis is bad without Giannis
Quote from: BM1090 on November 14, 2025, 05:51:57 PMPredictably, a roster built to maximize Giannis is bad without Giannis
The roster built to maximize Lamelo didn't seem nearly as bad without Lamelo as the Bucks did.
The reality is the Bucks' second best player is Ryan Rollins. Think about that for a second.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 14, 2025, 06:26:43 PMThe roster built to maximize Lamelo didn't seem nearly as bad without Lamelo as the Bucks did.
The reality is the Bucks' second best player is Ryan Rollins. Think about that for a second.
The Hornets have a few good pieces, including Knueppel and Miles Bridges. And they finally got smart and picked up a decent backup PG (Sexton) for all the games they knew LaMelo would miss. But they'll never win anything that matters anytime soon because they lack so much, especially people who know how to build a team.
Curry is still a fairly good basketball player.
No one is ever going to slot Curry over Lebron historically. Mainly because of Lebron's size and overall versatility defensively when he was in his prime. That said I believe Curry has always been a better offensive player, and it goes beyond the obvious stats.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 14, 2025, 06:26:43 PMThe roster built to maximize Lamelo didn't seem nearly as bad without Lamelo as the Bucks did.
The reality is the Bucks' second best player is Ryan Rollins. Think about that for a second.
I mean yeah, it's not great. But Rollins has been legitimately very good. And the roster fits around Giannis and should improve a lot defensively if KPJ gets and stays healthy.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 14, 2025, 11:14:24 PMCurry is still a fairly good basketball player.
Too bad he has a terrible head coach
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2025, 07:01:57 AMToo bad he has a terrible head coach
Curry went 8/11 on triples off the bounce yesterday.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2025, 07:42:17 AMCurry went 8/11 on triples off the bounce yesterday.
Despite his terrible head coach. Impressive.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2025, 08:00:36 AMDespite his terrible head coach. Impressive.
Imagine how great he would be with Donovan.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 15, 2025, 08:57:35 AMImagine how great he would be with Donovan.
Kerr isn't a good coach.
Fiserv been bad to home teams today
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2025, 08:12:18 PMFiserv been bad to home teams today
It's the shooting background.
Giannis left the game today early in the 2Q. The Bucks appear to be on the road to nowhere.
The Bulls back to elite beating the mighty nuggets
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 17, 2025, 10:04:02 PMGiannis left the game today early in the 2Q. The Bucks appear to be on the road to nowhere.
they should've benched him for losing to the lakers
Quote from: Shaka Shart on November 17, 2025, 11:28:57 PMThe Bulls back to elite beating the mighty nuggets
If jokic weren't white it'd disqualify him from the MVP race
The Hornets have been looking for their "big man of the future" forever. And they had him in the 2022 draft: Jalen Duren.
But they immediately traded Duren to the Pistons and drafted Mark Williams two picks later.
Duren is averaging 20.3 points and 12.3 rebounds this season for the Pistons; he is part of the young core that has taken the Eastern Conference by storm. Williams was either hurt or ineffective during his short time with the Hornets, who couldn't wait to dump him on some other team.
And that is just one example of why the Hornets always suck.
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2025, 09:49:21 AMThe Hornets have been looking for their "big man of the future" forever. And they had him in the 2022 draft: Jalen Duren.
But they immediately traded Duren to the Pistons and drafted Mark Williams two picks later.
Duren is averaging 20.3 points and 12.3 rebounds this season for the Pistons; he is part of the young core that has taken the Eastern Conference by storm. Williams was either hurt or ineffective during his short time with the Hornets, who couldn't wait to dump him on some other team.
And that is just one example of why the Hornets always suck.
We'll see how much by storm the Pistons take the NBA by when they aren't playing a G League schedule. Their wins are over the Rockets (good win), Celtics, Magic, Mavericks, Grizzlies, Jazz, Nets, Sixers (x2), Wizards, Bulls, Pacers.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 18, 2025, 10:40:52 AMWe'll see how much by storm the Pistons take the NBA by when they aren't playing a G League schedule. Their wins are over the Rockets (good win), Celtics, Magic, Mavericks, Grizzlies, Jazz, Nets, Sixers (x2), Wizards, Bulls, Pacers.
Fair. We'll see!
Spurs without Wemby and Castle vs Grizzlies without Ja is one of the worst games of the year. Holy hell its bad.
A day late, but a good time to revisit the legend of Pat Spencer...
As some of you recall, he was a lacrosse player first and foremost. And not just a lacrosse player, but the 4x AA, won both NPOY awards, all time leader in career assists and pretty much consensus top 3 players of the last 30 years. Picked #1 overall in the PLL draft.
Decides to try out basketball and goes to NW for his 5 year (same way that Greg Paulus played QB at Cuse for a year after 4 annoying years at Duke). Averages 10/4/4 despite not playing basketball for 4 years. End of the season is cancelled by COVID, but instead of going back to the PLL where anytime would salivte to have him, signs a pro BB contract in Germany. Plays a year then comes back to the G League.
He's played G League for the last few years, but the Warriors converted him to a two-way contract last year, and then a standard deal to close out the year. He's back with the Warriors on a 2 way this year, now averaging double digit minutes of the first time at the ripe age of 29 and was a rebound away from a triple double the other night against the Heat.
He's nowhere near as good as his little brother Cam but the fact that he's sticking in the league and performing is a pretty amazing story. And the Pat Spencer, the accountant who moonlights as a basketball player, memes on social media are amazing.
Wait ... Chris Paul wasn't already retired?
Quote from: JWags85 on November 18, 2025, 08:13:20 PMSpurs without Wemby and Castle vs Grizzlies without Ja is one of the worst games of the year. Holy hell its bad.
on the topic of the Grizz, I enjoyed reading about Klay Thompson roasting Ja Morant
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47069151/mavs-thompson-scoffs-morant-trash-talk-grizzlies-win
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 23, 2025, 11:38:56 AMon the topic of the Grizz, I enjoyed reading about Klay Thompson roasting Ja Morant
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47069151/mavs-thompson-scoffs-morant-trash-talk-grizzlies-win
Ja is a dope who is hurt (again) and wasn't even playing, and Klay hasn't been good for years now. They deserve each other.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 11:55:38 AMJa is a dope who is hurt (again) and wasn't even playing, and Klay hasn't been good for years now. They deserve each other.
Eh. Klay's a 4 time champion and key piece on those teams. He's on the tail end of his career and hasn't been the same since returning from ACL and then Achilles injuries. But he always plays when he's not healthy and seems to be a good guy. Ja, on the other hand, likes to act like he's from some gangster background, is often injured, and now doesn't want to play for the franchise that was trying to build around him. Klay>>>>>>>>>>Ja.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 11:55:38 AMJa is a dope who is hurt (again) and wasn't even playing, and Klay hasn't been good for years now. They deserve each other.
Klay still averaged 20 points a game on 40 % shooting his last 2 years in GS. And that was after missing 2 full seasons with brutal injuries and then came back midseason and was a big piece in winning that last championship. Last year was the first year he took a step back and even then was still steady and a reliable scorer/shooter.
Talk **** about Ja, cause he's well on his way from being a potential new face of the NBA to a massive waste of talent, but no need to disparage a guy who will be in the HOF and was one of the more underrated defenders in the league while also being a top 10 shooter of all time at his peak.
As to the actual story, he absolutely MURDERED Ja in a polite and professional manner. Incredible...
"It's funny to run your mouth when you're on the bench. It's kind of the story of his career so far, just leaving us wanting more."
"We need our best players to be out there, and when you're a star, it comes with a great responsibility. I hate to see that go to waste."
Just torching him with disappointment at a career wasted...while also dating a massive hip hop star that he could really flex on Ja with if he wanted to get in the mud.
"For years" was inaccurate, so that's my bad.
Accurate: At 35 and with a beat-up body, Klay Thompson is no longer a very good basketball player.
But yes, he zapped Ja good, and the Memphis knucklehead no doubt will reflect on his inadequacies while he counts his $200 million.
Quote from: MU82 on November 24, 2025, 12:34:45 AM"For years" was inaccurate, so that's my bad.
Accurate: At 35 and with a beat-up body, Klay Thompson is no longer a very good basketball player.
For funsies, just to needle you more, that "no longer very good" player also went for 22 on 6 for 12 from 3 in that Memphis game, despite not being a starter anymore.
But I hear your point, he's not mid 2010s rainmaker Klay, 60 points on 11 dribbles Klay. But kind of speaks to how incredible he was that his version of washed up is 11/2/2 on under 20 min per game, bench minutes, while still being able to pop off for 20 multiple times in the last 6-7 games. Numbers most NBA guys would dream of at age 25, much less 35.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 24, 2025, 09:14:35 AMFor funsies, just to needle you more, that "no longer very good" player also went for 22 on 6 for 12 from 3 in that Memphis game, despite not being a starter anymore.
But I hear your point, he's not mid 2010s rainmaker Klay, 60 points on 11 dribbles Klay. But kind of speaks to how incredible he was that his version of washed up is 11/2/2 on under 20 min per game, bench minutes, while still being able to pop off for 20 multiple times in the last 6-7 games. Numbers most NBA guys would dream of at age 25, much less 35.
Lots of not very good basketball players occasionally have a good game, but you already knew that.
Klay was an incredible and efficient shooter/scorer. And when healthy, a good defender, too. Obvious HoFer and winner.
It is crazy how badly Horst has burned this roster to the ground. With GA they are a play in level team, which is crazy given he's one of the two best players in the world and would be good enough to be fairly competitive just by having him and a bad roster around him (like the past 2 years). Without him this is the worst team in the NBA.
Guy deserves so much better. And Doc being the coach is just the icing on top.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 24, 2025, 09:09:52 PMIt is crazy how badly Horst has burned this roster to the ground. With GA they are a play in level team, which is crazy given he's one of the two best players in the world and would be good enough to be fairly competitive just by having him and a bad roster around him (like the past 2 years). Without him this is the worst team in the NBA.
Guy deserves so much better. And Doc being the coach is just the icing on top.
With GA and Porter I think they are a solid top 5 team. Unfortunately they have three guys who can create offense and two of them are out.
They built the team around Giannis and it was working on offense really well. Obviously it's not going to function well without Giannis.
Agree about Doc though 100%
Not sure it "means" anything, in part because the sample size is small, but I still found this stat from The Athletic interesting:
In four back-to-backs this season, Cooper Flagg has shot 17-of-49 with six total free-throw attempts and averaged just 10.2 points.
Quote from: MU82 on November 26, 2025, 10:49:47 AMNot sure it "means" anything, in part because the sample size is small, but I still found this stat from The Athletic interesting:
In four back-to-backs this season, Cooper Flagg has shot 17-of-49 with six total free-throw attempts and averaged just 10.2 points.
It means his body isn't NBA ready yet
The Bucks are finally healthy (minus Prince but that's not a big thing) and Doc goes back to 9 straight minutes if 4 backups and one of the non Turner/GA/Rollins lineups. A regular lineup goes on an 18-5 run to go up 11 and Doc goes to this trash and the lead is down to 2 haha. The only time Doc can get a rotation that makes sense is when a star plus two rotation guys are out. It's crazy how this guy keeps getting head coaching jobs. Saw an Instagram post after last season showing the C's title team that said "Greatest Team of All Time" with "Won a title with Doc Rivers as their coach" in small print and I can't say it's wrong.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 26, 2025, 11:59:47 AMIt means his body isn't NBA ready yet
FWIW, Flagg just had a career-high 35 in a win over the Clips despite playing the second night of a back-to-back.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2025, 07:45:46 PMThe Bucks are finally healthy (minus Prince but that's not a big thing) and Doc goes back to 9 straight minutes if 4 backups and one of the non Turner/GA/Rollins lineups. A regular lineup goes on an 18-5 run to go up 11 and Doc goes to this trash and the lead is down to 2 haha. The only time Doc can get a rotation that makes sense is when a star plus two rotation guys are out. It's crazy how this guy keeps getting head coaching jobs. Saw an Instagram post after last season showing the C's title team that said "Greatest Team of All Time" with "Won a title with Doc Rivers as their coach" in small print and I can't say it's wrong.
KP and GA on minutes restrictions so you're going to get some weird lineups. Not a defense of Doc but I thought that was expected and will be for the next few games.
Horst should be arrested. He took a team with Giannis, playing in the Eastern Conference and its two biggest contenders down and out, and has made a team that is completely uncompetitive and has no control of its draft picks for another half decade.
The Bucks blocked him from interviewing for a promotion with the Pistons (who are now flourishing) and blocked him from interviewing for other GM positions before extending him after a third straight first round exit. Beyond that, they gave Doc Rivers a coaching job. I half jokingly wonder if Jimmy Haslem incentivized by the NBA to buy in as an owner and blow it all up so Giannis asks out.
The Athletic took a look at "new faces in new places," and here's what they said about Knueppel:
The Hornets didn't get Cooper Flagg, but they have the league's highest-scoring rookie out of Duke! Knueppel is at 18.4 points per game while making 3.5 3s per game at 41.3 percent. No rookie has ever made more than 3.0 3s per game, and no rookie has ever made 40 percent of 3s and 90 percent of free throws for an entire season (minimum 100 attempts each). Based on his first quarter this season, Knueppel has a chance to make history.
Quote from: BM1090 on November 30, 2025, 03:17:55 PMKP and GA on minutes restrictions so you're going to get some weird lineups. Not a defense of Doc but I thought that was expected and will be for the next few games.
Doc shoulda been fired after last season. But I am convinced Giannis will be out of town before Doc. I'll be shocked if Giannis is back next year. Heck, I'll be surprised if Giannis is still a Buck all season.
I thought the rumor was Giannis was a big fan of Doc and keeping Doc helped keep Giannis this year.
If true, Giannis' coach selections have enhanced some of the Bucks problems.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2025, 10:55:32 AMWait ... Chris Paul wasn't already retired?
Now he is.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 03, 2025, 08:37:33 AMNow he is.
Incredibly weird course of events with CP3. They can't really waive him cause they don't have enough cap space to fill the spot and you can't carry 13 standard contracts for more than 28 days.
He's supposedly going to try and find a contender to play with to desperately find that ring, but not sure who wants him. Maybe Minnesota or Houston? Wolves need PG help but is a washed CP3 any better than washed Conley? Houston he could at least mentor Sheppard a bit and help him become less of a pure shooter played PG out of size necessity.
Hall of Fame player. Great career. Stern did him dirty when he wouldn't let him go to the Lakers.
But he's done, and he's been done for a bit now. What contender would want him?
In other shocking NBA news ... Zion is injured.
Paul's best chance for a ring was obviously with the Suns in 2021 against the Bucks. He was pretty bad in a close game 4 - had he had a "normal" Chris Paul game the Suns are likely up 3-1 heading home to wrap up the title. Even after Giannis' signature block on Ayton, the Suns had the ball down two and Paul...fell down leading to a Bucks' break.
Giannis Antetokounmpo and his agent Alex Saratsis are having conversations with the Milwaukee Bucks about the two-time NBA MVP's future -- and discussing whether his best fit is staying or a move elsewhere, sources told ESPN on Wednesday.
A resolution to these talks is expected in the coming weeks, sources said, which will result in shaping whether Antetokounmpo is available ahead of the Feb. 5 trade deadline.
Going, Going, Gowne.
At this point, trading him probably makes the most sense. I just don't trust the people doing it.
I'm at peace with it. I think it's probably best for both parties. I will be excited to be past the endless speculation.
He has a lot to do with the team being where they are over the last 8 years both good and bad. He is an all-time great and gave it his all. However, he also held the team to the fire on making win now moves at the expense of the future and rumors are he played a big role in the Griffin hire.
We got a championship so it's all worth it, but the Bucks have a steep hill in front of them.
OKC is gonna finish with the best record ever and then repeat as champs. No weaknesses.
Quote from: The Sultan on December 03, 2025, 10:54:12 AMPaul's best chance for a ring was obviously with the Suns in 2021 against the Bucks. He was pretty bad in a close game 4 - had he had a "normal" Chris Paul game the Suns are likely up 3-1 heading home to wrap up the title. Even after Giannis' signature block on Ayton, the Suns had the ball down two and Paul...fell down leading to a Bucks' break.
Yep, which is even more frustrating for him/his legacy cause he was great that whole playoffs otherwise.
The bigger what if for him I think is what if he didn't get traded the year before. He was really good for a young OKC team that was just a few years away, meanwhile Westbrook was a bad fit on the Rockets that made the conference semis. They thought they needed to do something but had a way better chance of beating the Lakers with Paul letting Harden play off ball and feeding Gordon in the corner and Capela with lobs.
Quote from: Jockey on December 03, 2025, 04:16:57 PMGiannis Antetokounmpo and his agent Alex Saratsis are having conversations with the Milwaukee Bucks about the two-time NBA MVP's future -- and discussing whether his best fit is staying or a move elsewhere, sources told ESPN on Wednesday.
A resolution to these talks is expected in the coming weeks, sources said, which will result in shaping whether Antetokounmpo is available ahead of the Feb. 5 trade deadline.
Going, Going, Gowne.
Maybe. This is like the 13th time Shams has reported this. He's bound to get one eventually.
Shams doesn't say anything there. "Discussing whether his best fit is staying or a move elsewhere."
In other words, he might stay, or he might go elsewhere. It's a real bold take.
https://x.com/APH00PS/status/1996310668350275592?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
I have zero clue what this account is, but it'd be so on brand for Horst. Will be hilarious to land KAT and their one first round available pick for Giannis.
Quote from: The Sultan on December 03, 2025, 04:19:34 PMAt this point, trading him probably makes the most sense. I just don't trust the people doing it.
And that's the issue. He's 31, fairly durable, coming off 6 straight All NBA 1st Teams, and would have 1.5 years minimum (not including his player option). That has the makings of a king's ransom in exchange, looking at the Paul George type haul at a minimum (young star in the making, another solid player, plus a pile of picks).
But the way Horst has been moving, it feels terrifying that he moves Giannis to the Knicks who have the worst to offer by far.
I think in a perfect world, and with a real competent GM, they move Giannis to Houston and get Sengun, Jabari, and picks. Just don't send him to the Lakers or let those big ol women in San Antonio get the Monstars in real like with Giannis and Wemby together.
But if Giannis goes to the Knicks, maybe TK comes "home" to Milwaukee. Wouldn't that be swell?
I don't see any world in which he's traded in season. This is going to be a generational haul. Few teams can do it; fewer can do it while maintaining a roster with enough chemistry to pursue a championship in the same season.
3 or 4-team trades happen in season, but this has the makings of an offseason blockbuster
Giannis 2 Spurz
Quote from: The Sultan on December 03, 2025, 04:19:34 PMAt this point, trading him probably makes the most sense. I just don't trust the people doing it.
Wait, you don't trust a Jimmy Haslam owned team?!?
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 04, 2025, 05:23:41 AMI don't see any world in which he's traded in season. This is going to be a generational haul. Few teams can do it; fewer can do it while maintaining a roster with enough chemistry to pursue a championship in the same season.
3 or 4-team trades happen in season, but this has the makings of an offseason blockbuster
Atlanta would be ideal. We'd be stuck with Tre Young, but we'd get a lot of high 1st rounders.
Quote from: Jockey on December 04, 2025, 10:44:53 AMAtlanta would be ideal. We'd be stuck with Tre Young, but we'd get a lot of high 1st rounders.
Going from rooting for Giannis to rooting for Trae Young is cruel and unusual punishment.
I would push hard to get Jalen Johnson and whatever other filler needed to make the money work (Kristaps on an expiring?) as long as you can still get the NOP 1st this year. Turing Giannis into Johnson plus one of Peterson/Dybansta/Boozer, plus hopefully a few other future picks would be best case
Anybody else's conspiracy alarms going off re Giannis's calf strain?
I doubt he's faking but a 2-4 week injury right now if he wants out is pretty convenient.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 04, 2025, 11:00:11 AMI would push hard to get Jalen Johnson and whatever other filler needed to make the money work (Kristaps on an expiring?) as long as you can still get the NOP 1st this year. Turing Giannis into Johnson plus one of Peterson/Dybansta/Boozer, plus hopefully a few other future picks would be best case
Its Giannis, one of the top 5 players in the world, you can get more than just Johnson and filler, plus picks. I know I keep going back to the Paul George trade, but its a template for a superstar (throwing out recent Luka trade malpractice). They got a rookie with potential (SGA), a proven prolific scorer (Gallinari), plus the 5 firsts and 2 swaps. Id ask for Johnson, Rissacher (or Newell I guess), the NOP pick, and then a couple more.
You guys are forgetting Jon Horst is the GM of the Milwaukee Bucks.
Hope everyone likes KAT. At least we'll get one top 8 protected first round Wizards pick this year that turns into a second round pick when the Wiz are in the top 8, and 3 first round swaps from the Knicks for Giannis.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 04, 2025, 11:38:33 AMIts Giannis, one of the top 5 players in the world, you can get more than just Johnson and filler, plus picks. I know I keep going back to the Paul George trade, but its a template for a superstar (throwing out recent Luka trade malpractice). They got a rookie with potential (SGA), a proven prolific scorer (Gallinari), plus the 5 firsts and 2 swaps. Id ask for Johnson, Rissacher (or Newell I guess), the NOP pick, and then a couple more.
See but the same way that the Luka trade was malpractice, GM's are going to look at the PG trade a malpractice in the opposite direction. The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle. Johnson and the NOP 1st this year are incredibly valuable given how he's having a breakout year and is on a very team friendly deal, plus NO being straight trash, with a top heavy lottery.
Edit: Plus the PG trade was always going to be an overpay since it had the strings of bringing Kawhi too.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 04, 2025, 11:51:48 AMSee but the same way that the Luka trade was malpractice, GM's are going to look at the PG trade a malpractice in the opposite direction. The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle. Johnson and the NOP 1st this year are incredibly valuable given how he's having a breakout year and is on a very team friendly deal, plus NO being straight trash, with a top heavy lottery.
Edit: Plus the PG trade was always going to be an overpay since it had the strings of bringing Kawhi too.
Right, so while it won't be a Presti swindle haul, I think a really good player, a young player with potential, and 2-3 picks, including the NOP pick, is reasonable. Its not 5 picks and 2 swaps, but a multiple time MVP hasn't been traded in his prime since Wilt.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 04, 2025, 12:03:27 PMRight, so while it won't be a Presti swindle haul, I think a really good player, a young player with potential, and 2-3 picks, including the NOP pick, is reasonable. Its not 5 picks and 2 swaps, but a multiple time MVP hasn't been traded in his prime since Wilt.
Seem like we're pretty close. I guess it depends on whether you'd rather have an additional young relatively unproven player (personally not a fan of Risacher, and Newell is too soon to say), or 30 mil coming off the books to target a FA the fits a specific need. I admittedly have not looked at what next years FA class look like.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 04, 2025, 12:03:27 PMbut a multiple time MVP hasn't been traded in his prime since Wilt.
Kareem
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 04, 2025, 11:05:41 AMAnybody else's conspiracy alarms going off re Giannis's calf strain?
I think he's too much of a competitor to just dip out, but a man's gotta pack.
Quote from: The Sultan on December 04, 2025, 12:09:59 PMKareem
Wow, in my head I was writing Kareem and Wilt...and then just left off the first part. Kind of a big omission when it was the same damn team doing the trading. I'll blame jet lag :o
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 04, 2025, 11:15:14 AMI doubt he's faking but a 2-4 week injury right now if he wants out is pretty convenient.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 04, 2025, 11:15:14 AMI doubt he's faking but a 2-4 week injury right now if he wants out is pretty convenient.
Well, and if the Bucks have agreed to trade him, they don't want him going and getting hurt playing for a team below .500 either. I think Giannis, his people, and the Bucks are all on the same page, but I also think our calves are as strained as Giannis's.
I think Giannis is too high character to fake injuries personally.
Even with the drama and disfunction in Milwaukee, the Bucks are still above the Bulls in the standings. :(
Giannis for Pat Williams anyone? He's young with great upside. ;)
Hearing there's an influx of season ticket price requests coming from Mequon once the Giannis trade rumors hit
Quote from: Jockey on December 04, 2025, 10:44:53 AMAtlanta would be ideal. We'd be stuck with Tre Young, but we'd get a lot of high 1st rounders.
Our first rounders no less. That's the only one.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 04, 2025, 03:46:33 PMEven with the drama and disfunction in Milwaukee, the Bucks are still above the Bulls in the standings. :(
Giannis for Pat Williams anyone? He's young with great upside. ;)
Trade him to Marquette?
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 05, 2025, 05:31:54 AMTrade him to Marquette?
Williams to MU would be bad for MU.
My 80 YO mother-in-law has more passion for basketball than Williams, and I'm not sure she could name more than 1 NBA team.
Quote from: Shaka Shart on December 04, 2025, 08:43:33 PMHearing there's an influx of season ticket price requests coming from Mequon once the Giannis trade rumors hit
The dentists don't appreciate him? I didn't realize that but I don't get Milwaukee news.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 05, 2025, 08:57:04 AMThe dentists don't appreciate him? I didn't realize that but I don't get Milwaukee news.
4elder was demanding that the Bucks "trade his azz" the season they went on to win the title.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 04, 2025, 12:36:10 PMWell, and if the Bucks have agreed to trade him, they don't want him going and getting hurt playing for a team below .500 either. I think Giannis, his people, and the Bucks are all on the same page, but I also think our calves are as strained as Giannis's.
Are his Calves more or less strained than Leah McElrath with Beto O'Rourke?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 05, 2025, 08:57:04 AMThe dentists don't appreciate him? I didn't realize that but I don't get Milwaukee news.
Finally some traditionals en route